Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

here is the jig in it's final version much measuring and leveling involved might be a little too high up in the air .will have to build stagging around it when I glass things.
<img src ="modules/Upload/woodbike/P1010003 (Small).JPG "> 47352
and the grand finale for the week end .the plywood is bent over it all.
It still needs a little fine tuning I have some gaps along some frames . Will work on getting closer next.A big help was my son sitting on the top of the panels while ziptying them.Not much room to spare.Ej.
<img src ="modules/Upload/woodbike/P1010004 (Small).JPG "> 48247

Thanks for posting the photos woodbike. It's interesting to see how the upside down building system works on the jig.

Two questions:

1) Are you building the boat from a CNC cut kit?

2 Just to confirm, your boat is a DE23, right?

Please keep posting, we're all very interested!

BTW, the DE23 is one big boat!

John

I just hope there was a big garage door behind the photographer!

it's being built from the kit and it is the novi 23 same hull as the DE.
here is another view with the garage door opennig in the background .It will fit .But I will have to assemble the hardtop outside ,I will have to figure out a way to built the parts separate then assemble it all outside.That is so far down the road that i am not really worried about it now.Ej
<img src ="modules/Upload/woodbike/P1010005 (Small).JPG "> 38693

Tremendous! That's one big hull. Is that the standard Meranti that comes with the CNC kit or did you upgrade? It looks like beautiful wood.

-Dave

Can anyone tell me why the Novi/DE23 and other large planing hulls are built upside down on a jig, while the MT24 and other large displacement hulls are built right side up in a basket mold?

I'm guessing that it has something to do with the greater precision involved in the construction of a planing hull, but it seems the basket mold could provide that precision as well. I note that Devlin builds the 22' Surf Scoter on a cradle (no basket mold) and seems to get the required precision. Woodbike sure seems to be getting the precision on this project! Is the jig making that possible?

John

JohnI wrote:. . .
I'm guessing that it has something to do with the greater precision involved in the construction of a planing hull,

Yes.

but it seems the basket mold could provide that precision as well.

No.

yep, that is the standard BS1088 in all our kits now. 11,980 pounds of it coming in tommorrow.

PLYWOOD PARTY!!!!

Eric

how do i get past the little red x's to view the pictures. never had this problem before.

LIVEWIRE wrote:how do i get past the little red x's to view the pictures. never had this problem before.

We are still working on the site. Pictures will be back soon.

now thats a hull, nice work.
keep the pictures coming.

I finished glassing the hull this week-end .almost 5 hours to do the taping of the seams .Very happy that I used some polyester as release cloth .Almost no sanding the next morning.Yesterday I spend almost 10 hours glassing the hull.Thanks to the help of a friend, (who mixed for hours) I was able to get it done.I even got up this morning at 5 AM to roll on one more coat on the topsides(they were still sticky to the touch, we had a cold front come in the night).Looks pretty good, I can still see the weave but it think I can get that with a little sanding and some filling .As soon as I can figure out how to post a pictue I will.
EJ.

I spent two afternoons with a 7 inch grinder and 70 grit disk smothing out all the humps and lumps .Bought the sander polisher for $30 at the local Harbor Freight outlet .Cheap tool but worked fine .
On sunday I filled in all the valleys with a mix of resin microballons and cabosil .Spead it out with a notched trowel (3/16x3/16)then smoothed it out with a long wall paper knife/masking thing (about 18 inches long with a flexible handle .worked great on the curves).I had a hard time keeping the shop warm enough .Took better part of a day to harden.
Does anybody out there have this problem?:the pump for my resin seems to burp at about the same place in the stroke ,looks like a air bubble in the exact same place every time!!If you look at it you can't see it .Any solutions?will have pictures as soon as I can upload them
EJ

Pump burping: did you cut little air intake holes in the jugs?

Fairing: go for the QuickFair. It is so nice that I completely abandonned the micro-balloons that I was using since 25 years.

thanks for the hints .no I do not have the hole on the jugs.I have some quick fair and I will use it for the second pass on the top sides .I wanted to used the other mix on the first pass .
Another question for you ,where would you put the waterline ?.I want to put a coat of bottom paint over the primer before turning it over .Anybody use "super shipbottom"paint ? www.supershipbottom.com.
Another point :would you glass over the keel or the spray rails? .EJ

Hi EJ

Interested in how glassing bottom went...and why you had so many humps and bumps....are these from glass not laying flat or from overlaps
in glassing schedule?

Keep up the good work..

Merry Christmas all......

Hoot

see pictures at my image gallery at http://66.70.13.66index.php?cat=11415
got it glassed ,sanded with a grinder, faired 3 times ,glued the keel and spray rails over the last 10 days. made the keel from a stack lamination of 3/4 fir shaped glassed and sanded on the bench before gluing in place with epoxy.the spray rails are a lamination of 3 1/2 inch pieces of fir salvage from my neighbors demolition.I am not a 100% happy with the shape will have to tweak them a bit .It's hard to work upside down .the rails will be seen in another direction when the boat is finally flipped so i will probably finish the shaping after it's rolled over . got to start thinking about primer and bottom paint next .EJ.

Man that is one big boat! I can only imagine how much work it is to fair that monster.

Looking good.

CaryB

it was a real treat to fair this boat .most of the time you are sitting on top of it pushing the fairing board as if you were scrubbing floors or pushing a paddle on a kayak.It took about two hours per panel .The sides are worse on your arms .I look at it as altitude training ,I am a cyclist with more endurance than common sense ,so excercising with a mask on can only increase youre endurance.Just like riding at altitude .Ej

Looking good. Your pictures have been a lot of help. I have the plans for the DE23 and hope to start building sometime in 2005. Right now I'm building the model in 1" = 12" scale.
Again, thanks for the great pictures.
Donald

Over the last month I have battled problems with my internet connection including the blaster virus .But now I can tell you all that I have primed the hull, painted the bottom with "super shipsbottom paint" at www.supershipsbottom.com This paint is supposed to last up to 2 years out of the water without deterioration,flipped the hull and glassed the inside seams and bottom .A new picture is on my album I am still trying to get the newest ones uplaoded but having software issues .Will try again later.

Nice looking job. Are you tired of sanding yet?

Ralph

Woodbike,

Outstanding! I just took a look at your last picture post. You are really moving on that monster. When is the flipping party?

-Dave

work continues.I has been flipped for several weeks now the inside bottom is glassed with one layer of 12 oz biaxial cloth .A small discrepancy was noted ,the plans specified two layers of glass on the inside but the bill of materials only has enough glass to do one layer on the inside .So it has one layer of glass on the inside and two on the outside .I have adjusted all the stringers back in to the boat ,the process of glassing them in has started,I ordered a custom 50 gallon aluminium fuel tank (made locally about half the price of the specified prefab tank)still waiting for it and I am considering the various plumbing issues for a baitwell and freshwater washdown system.I am still working on uploading my recent pictures should have it figured out by today time permitting.see ya .

Woodbike,
You should be proud of her so far. Lots of work ahead but you have a beautiful start! Hang in there. Nothing can beat that feeling the first few times out. Look forward to it and then savor it.

Just looked at the profile pic of the boat right side up. Man, the sheer line on that thing is beautiful! Can't wait to see her decked and painted but I'm sure you feel the same way.

Looking Good...

CaryB

I could not even imagine fairing all that. Whew I'm going to need some more tools (air file, big compressor) as well a barn before I tackle a CS25.

Be careful about making sure the bottom is flat when glassing in the stringers and bulkheads. I thought I was and still ended up with a small hook in the hull. It hink it's probably best to get the stringers and bulkheads glassed in before fairing at the cost of doing some extra flips.

I am still working on the monster .I have all the stringer etc glued in , have the bottom of the lockers installed , the wood framework for the bunks' finished , the gas tank has been made as is waiting instalation .
Next I have to paint the inside of the lockers install the top of the berths. then I will be off the floor in the cuddy .
Then on to getting the stringer ready for the soles.
Some of the fun things I have encountered on the way :
The original BOM didn't have enought cloth to do two layers on the inside .you would need another 16 yards to do this . So I only have one layer of biaxial on the inside of the hull .
I am not done with all the taping but I think I have much too much tape on hand .I will be able to guesstimate it better after I have the sole glued in.
I am past 30 gallons of epoxy .
Those little invisible slivers of fiberglass can really get stuck in your hands and they hurt till you can find them and dig them out , the record is one about 1/4 inch long.
You eventually get used to the fiberglass itch , after a few months of it.
It' s getting hot here and the epoxy is kicking off faster and faster .
I am working on this thing as much as I can ,I am shooting for july.
Will post pictures soon

woodbike wrote:.....Will post pictures soon

I look forward to seeing pictures.

Ralph

over 30 gallons of epoxy...

Working with the biaxial cloth can be decieving. It is tightly stitched and doesn't feel like one could get many glass fibers in your skin, but after a few minutes of working with it, you find that is not the case. Today, I simply put on a pair of vinyl gloves anytime I work on my boat (regardless of the task at hand). On too many occassions, I grabbed something with wet epoxy or glass fibers.

Looking forward to the pictures.

Dan

I must say, the work you are doing is truly amazing! I can't believe how fast you are progressing on this monster of a boat!

Two layers of biaxial cloth on the outside and inside? Wow, that's a lot of fiberglass and epoxy. You'll need a crane to lift her once she's done, I would think?

In your post you say that you only have one layer of biaxial fabric on the inside. And then you say you have extra biaxial tape. Are you sure that you have followed the taping schedule for the hull to stringer bond? The C19 required 2 layers of tape at all stinger to hull locations. Was just wondering if you misinterpreted the lamination schedule. I don't have the plans but would assume that at least double tape was required on stringer/hull joints and would be surprized if double layer of fabric was required on inside of hull. But I have been a wrong guesser many times. I would check the schedule again carefully, mostly to make sure of the "extra" tape issue.

the links to the pictures are
<http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pos=-836>
<http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pos=-837>

<http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pos=-839>
this might work or go to the album and find them .
No. I did the laminations as planned double and triple checked it all .
On the picture of the stringers you can see the water tank in it's planned position(black box) the fuel tank is to the side and will be in the large space in the center.I also gave you all a picture of the work in progress as it really looks today .I didn't bother with cleaning things up ,As you can tell any project tend to accumulate all your tools in a small space .I try and be as efficient as possible , working in 1 hour increments .I try and get out here once a day . I manage to do something even if it's only standing around planning my next move.I usually can get away between 7:oo pm and 8 .If you plan it right you can do a lot in one hour.

Nice pictures of a huge boat! I am envious! Looks like you are doing good work too. I can identify with your comments about steady work, planning steps and "tool piles". You are going to love that boat.

Is the DE23 finished and you're putting around all over the place?
Sure would like to hear and see more on the beautiful job you're doing.

can't believe a month has gone by already since my last post.The progress has slowed a bit.
I have two other projects that are eating up my time , I am building a addition on my office (Did the electrical trim out last week end)and I am building a new entry way in my house prior to getting a new roof. (made the concrete block columns that will support a new hip roof over the doorway).I finally got to spend some time on the boat .I have all the pieces of wood glued to the stringers .It's ready for the foam , still have got to paint the gas tank before I put it in .then I can get the floors glued in place .I am hoping to get the floors in in the next couple of weeks.I think it will be a real turning point in the construction .
All projects have a period of time where the motivation lags a little , I think I have just passed that point.I am ready for the big push to the finish.
Ej

I got all the floor supports in finally , fuel tank in anchored (coated with Benjamin Moore coal tar epoxy paint) , water tank in place .PVC for the fuel line in, foamed up the necessary areas .All the sole and berth pieces are fitted ready to be installed.I just have to do is get it all glued in .
Will have to get some slower catalyst the glue is kicking off much too fast (I am using the medium now and I have about 10 minute before it gets hot.)Maybe I will put the epoxy in the fridge.See ya All EJ
New picture in the gallery of the progress.

I posted new pictures today ,now you can see where I am .As you can see I have the floors in ,to top sides of the stations are in , I moved station E up little so it would be in the middle of the space between the two other ones.I got a bollard glued in (a laminated piece of Ipe )with a piece of Ash connecting it to the bow.I glued in the supports for the side decks .I am having some second thoughts about the design of the roof supports .I don't like the angle that they are at .As designed ,you loose a lot of space under the roof and the front support is right in my face when standing at the imaginary helm ,also the ceiling is too low .So I am going to change a few things ,I will make the supports closer to vertical and the ceiling a little higher to clear my big head .Next I will get the gunwalles in.See you all soon.EJ

That is a big one! You are making great progress. Thanks for sharing the pics with us.

I sometime wonder about how much longer it would take to build a 23'er compared to the 16' that I am building. Of course there will be a difference, but I bet it is not as big of a difference as most would think.

Great work.

[img]albums/userpics/11415/gunnels%20in%20place.JPG
here is one view of the progress.The gunnels are white oak and still need some triming ,I have to get the back lockers finished before I can glue them in.I have to figure out the plumbing and the reinforcements needed for all the stuff and how toget into them.
albums/userpics/11415/cuddy%20in%20the%20rough.JPG
here is the view from the bow .The lines are looking good .I am deviating from the plan as far as the cabin support and roof are concerned ,I am too tall for the design and I want things to look different.I will fram it with harwood and a foam conposite roof.I also added a little bit of a curve at the front of the cuddy.
I will keep on pluggin away
ej

That is my favorite boat design. I really envy you woodbike! You are building a great boat and doing an excellent job by the looks of it.

I really like seeing your progress pics, please keep it up.

It's nice to see that you are progressing so well. Yor boat is looking very nice and you're doing a great job.

I decided to make hatches (is it the right word?) in the front walls of my back lockers. I can then use the lockers to sit on while fishing.

One question: how did you manage to bend the meranti to make the "round" corners of your cabin ? When I bend the 6mm it will break long before it reaches the curve that I want. I thought of making shallow scarfs in the inner side of the plywood, but I never tested it out.

Bjørn (Bear)

Hey Bear maybe you missunderstood things but I didn't make round corners on the cabin I just added a curve to the front piece .It is designed to be a flat piece ,I added a maybe a 5cm curve to it.Can't have a boat with too many flat surfaces ,it's no fun to build!EJ

Woodbike,
Looking very nice. I just received my plans for the Novi 23. Looking at yours has definitely been of value. Keep up the good work. With any luck I will start Mar 05.

OK, that's what I did too ! And I made a slight camber (2,5cm) in the cockpit floor as well. It is easier to make a slight camber than a dead flat surface.
I have the bench in the steering position, the two on the port side, the table and the frame for the pantry in place by now. Hoping to get some 15C soon so that the epoxy will cure properly. But I fear I will have to wait until next spring to put it on water. Fall is coming fast now.

Bear

EJ
Yes. I misunderstood. What you have done is exactly what I did. Raised a slight camber on the cabin roof. And when I was in "the camber corner" I made a 2,5cm camber in the cockpit floor as well. Just because it probably is easier to make a camber than to make a dead flat surface. It will always tend to be some minor humps and dumps on a large surface like this.

By now I have the benches and table on the port side in place. The drivers bench is also nearly completed. I will use this bench for a 25 liters can of fresh water. My experience with water tanks is that the water will rot or smell bad after a while and to rinse the tanks are always a nightmare. The additives for keeping the water fresh does not appeal to me. It's much easier to grab the can and fill it with water for each trip. Fresh water is a must for coffee and coocking. I also have the frame for the pantry almost finished.

And I'm sorry to say that fall is coming now. This is bad news for epoxy work and I will probably have to wait until next spring to launch the boat. The good thing is that I will have plenty of time to get it finished inside.

The work you have done is very nice, EJ. I look forward to see the pictures of the finished and painted details. I think you eventually will have a boat that is customized for your needs with all the advantages of a composite design.

Bear
PS.I will post some pictures when I get a replacement camera. My Old Olympus E-10 was stolen. Waiting for insurance.

Woodbike- I like the look of the curved cuddy front. I had been thinking about the same thing and now will definetly do it.
My flip is set for this weekend and I can get away from sanding for awhile.
I just went through my 100th sanding disk!

Woodbike,
have not seen a post from you lately. hope and pray you survived the hurricanes.

All is well ,we missed the worst storms by just a few miles.Port Charlotte is the next town south from here .(I would have gotten plastered if the storm had not taken a quick turn up Charlotte harbor)I just kept on working on the boat when everybody was in the panic mode .I am still chipping away at it .The decks and cabin roof are being faired at this time and I am trying to figure out the seating layout .I will try and get some new pictures out after this week-end.Would you believe that nearly a whole year has passed since the beginning of this build.Thanks for the concern .I am at the lets get it done already stage ,so we will see if I can make a good dent this week-end .See ya Ej

Glad to see all is well. Just know what we went through last year with Isabel. Glad to here work is also going well. I already anticipate a year or better once I start, so I still think your progress is good. Hang in there, pray for cooler weather, and if you need a break, Striper fishing will be at its best NOV-DEC up here.

Woodbike

Hope your still progressing well..your the inspiration for a lot of builders.

I just got back to work on DE..was gone for three months
Now its going to be full time Job...almost..it WILL be in the water by JUNE

Looks like we have about six DE23 and/or NOVI23s being built..

What are you doing for fuel tanks? Water?


Keep on postin'

Hoot

hey hoot I had a custom 50 gallon aluminium tank made locally to fit the space .coated it with zinc primer paint and benjamin moore coal tar epoxy coating.had 4 aluminium feet added to the bottom and attached it to the hull with 5200 and epoxied wood blocks .the tank sits off the floor and has about 1 to 2 inches of space all around it.I used a plastic water tanks from a RV supplier It's small only 12 gallons but fits behind the tank in front of frame E.If you go to my album there is a picture of the floors with the foam in place the two black things in the center are the tanks.EJ

EJ,

My parents have a condo over in Englewood. I'd love to come by and see your work next time I'm over that way if you don't mind.

Glenn

no problem let me know when you are in town.EJ

Woodbke,
Curious why you chose aluminum instead of stainless for you fuel tank? I have been advised by many to use stainless for fuel tanks if I have any choice. Just curious. Blake

go here for the easiest explanation http://www.yachtsurvey.com/fueltank.htm
aliminium is less expensive and durable if you follow the article in addition to the recommendations I coated it with the zic chromate and the coal tar epoxy
the rest of the articles at this site are vey insightfull EJ

Woodbike- Good site, thanks for the referral.
The article says that aluminum needs airflow to keep from corroding, which is why I had always heard not to paint it. You zinced and painted, this would seem to eliminate the airflow and promote corrosion,what do you think?
On the other hand I restored some aluminum window frames on my trawler by having them zinced then powder coated, after 2 years of pretty constant exposure to saltwater they seem to be holding up.

for that question go here
http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/fuel_tank.htm

From this, I conclude that Alu only corrodes when in contact with moisture for prolonged periods. Painting/Zinc/Tar coating will stop the alu coming into contact with moisture, even if the tank is nudged up against something that could trap water. (assuming the tank was dry when painted )
forgive the minor thread deviation...My question is: Does the same happen to stainless?

I think it depend on what type of stainless is used .I am just assuming that even stainless exposed to salt water will eventually fail .
I dedided to use as many anti corrosive featueres as I could.The aluminium tank was the less expensive tank and the easiest to customise and I could get it made locally. I etched it then zinc chromate primer then the coal tar epoxy .I kept it off the floor and away from the sides .Glues it in with 5200 As you can tell I tried to do all I could to avoid having to open up the floor in the future.
The tank was around $350 (50 gallons ) the paint $50 the etch about 10 and the two cans of primer I forget .So for around $400 I have a reliable tank .
See ya EJ

Woodbike,
Thanks for the info and the website. My current mechanic, who I trust and respect has recommended stainless 309 or better. I agree with the thought, I want this to be a one time install. Having said all of that, I now have a better understanding of how to avoid the problems associated with aluminium. You also mention custom built to 50 gal where as the plans call for 42. Did you move a frame or use the "V" of the hull to achieve the extra space? okay, cut to chase - what where your dimensions if I can be so bold?
Stand by for many more questions. I finally figured out how, with minor re-arranging, I can fit the NV23 project in the garage. Looking good for spring start. SWMBO has given me the go-ahead. Will have to move outside to finish but at least I can get hull, sole etc done inside. Blake

We did have a thread that asked about cutting out the frames G & F between inside stringers...never saw difinitive answer on how that could affect structural integrity?

what are you doing in regard to access to fittings etc?

Thanks

Hoot

I don't have the exact measurements anymore but it was a basic rectangular tank without any bends under it .the total lenght was I think just under 6 feet and I gave myself one inch all the way around it.I moved the middle part of frame D (between the 2 middle stringers)back about a foot (maybe more) .I do remember that the result was a space 24 inch square between frame D and E just enough room for the water tank (12 gallon).
The vent and the fill pipes go to the left just behind frame C and up to the gunnel.I made a tunnel out of plywood under the sole (about 4-5 inches wide and2- 3 inches deep),to keep water out of the foamed in spaces .The fuel line comes off the back of the tank(Right side) in a PVC pipe just past frame F then into the right rear compartement.I also allowed for 3 openning above each fitting Including the gauge (the wires for that go into the right locker in front of C drilled hole and place flexible hose in it.The center space between the two middle stringers in the only one that should get water in it.I foamed all the other spaces I did drill some drain holes between the compartements before foaming them I figure that if some water gets into those sealed areas I could drill a hole into one of the center stringers to get some drainage hopefully I will never have to do it .SO the space between the two center stringers has drain holes and vent holes in the frames to allow for air and water flow from the anchor locker to the transom.Trying to keep it all as dry as possible

http://gallery.bateau2.comdisplayimage. ... 415&pos=11
this is the link to the picture in my album that shows most of what we are talking about you can see the space for the tank , the tank before i coated it and the water tank in place ,EJ

more pictures of the current progress. the first one is a attempt at mocking up the roof line ,I am trying to get 6.1 inches under the side pieces and around 6.3 in the center.I am working with Mahogany pieces that will be finished clear.[img]http:?albums/userpics/11415/roof%20lines.JPG
the second and thIRd ones are the aft bench being assembled and a view of the gunnels after covering them with epoxy and dynel (my new favorite material to work with ,no itching )
[img]http:/ albums/userpics/11415/decks%20glassed.JPG
[img]http:/albums/userpics/11415/aft%20seat.JPG
have a great week.ej
maybe i am stupid but I can't et this thin to paste the pictures

No sweat. HTML tags can be a bugger sometimes. here you go.

the first one is a attempt at mocking up the roof line ,I am trying to get 6.1 inches under the side pieces and around 6.3 in the center.I am working with Mahogany pieces that will be finished clear.[

the second and thIRd ones are the aft bench being assembled and a view of the gunnels after covering them with epoxy and dynel (my new favorite material to work with ,no itching )

[/quote]

Woodbike,
She is really looking good! I may have to start this winter instead of next spring. How will installation of cleats, rod holders etc work with the dynel? I always figured that was an area that would get plywood. Keep up the ggod work. Blake

dynel is a polyester cloth that replaces the fiberglass cloth (feels like t-shirt material).It is so much easier to work with ,it handles curves a lot easier and when you grind it you will no itch .I would consider using a lot more of it if I ever build another boat .I would use it as a substitute for fiberglass cloth .It is more abrasion resistant and puncture resistant than glass .Actually that picture was taken before the cloth and epoxy was applied .Look in to it .
EJ

As finish cloth you can substitute it, but it is not structural.

thats what i was thinking use the tape on the seams then the dynel

woodbike wrote:dynel is a polyester cloth that replaces the fiberglass cloth (feels like t-shirt material).It is so much easier to work with ,it handles curves a lot easier and when you grind it you will no itch .I would consider using a lot more of it if I ever build another boat .I would use it as a substitute for fiberglass cloth .It is more abrasion resistant and puncture resistant than glass .Actually that picture was taken before the cloth and epoxy was applied .Look in to it .
EJ

Would it be considered a sutible substitute for 'glass for exterior sheathing? I'm waiting on the Panga plans and would possibly consider the dynel if its appropriate, as this boat could potentially be beached quite often. From your description, sounds like a friendlier material to work with.

I doubt it. Im not the designer, but i would bet the glass on the Panga will be structural. Jacque will be back tomorrow and can answer it definitively.

Dynel is not a substitute for fiberglass. It does not have the mechanical properties of fiberglass.

I am sorry I was actually talking about xynole polyester ,I always confuse those two .Xynole has been used as a hull covering fabric and is recommended in several books (Parker and Bueler) I also has seen articles about it in Woodboat and Boatbuilder magazines.It doesn't get clear like glass so you will want to paint it .EJ

Its used to cover some wood boats. An example would be to cover the outside of a "plank on frame" wood boat, where the boat does not derive its strength from the sheathing - its just used to cover the wood. If your boat is designed for fiberglass, it may or may not be OK to replace some of the lamination with Dynel.

I would consider using it to cover no structural parts of a boat. But lets wait to see what Jacques has to say.

Joel

If you do a search for Dynel you will find many posts regarding it. I read a couple where Jaques says he doesn't like it. He says it is not as strong as fiberglass and it uses more resin. I guess he will chime in when he gets back.

Woodbike- I recently visited a boat shop that builds high end sail boats and they are using Dynel for decks. They apply it very dry and it sets up with the weave showing. Top coat with paint and produces good antiskid surface. They said that regular fiberglass cloth doesn't have the same effect for some reason.
Let us know how it works out.

hey I decided to pull the boat out of the workshop and take a look at my progress from afar. As you can tell I have made some progress since the last pictures .I decided to replace the plywood superstructure with a mahogany one .Compound angles can be your friend.I still have to make the window frames . The roof is foam with two layers of glass It's just sitting there right now but looking sharp.The aft seat allows access to the back compartments and bottom of the hull .I compromised on the steering console I am not super happy with it but I have limited space and this is the best solution so far.I still have to finish the two seat supports structures them i might be done with the epoxy work!
Primer is near.
EJ.
Check out the pictures in my gallery[/img]

nort wrote:If you do a search for Dynel you will find many posts regarding it. I read a couple where Jaques says he doesn't like it. He says it is not as strong as fiberglass and it uses more resin. I guess he will chime in when he gets back.

Dynel is used to protect wood but it has no strength. It can not be substituted for fiberglass but, if we show a deck without fiberglas, then Dynel can be added.
I would prefer to add a thin woven like 4 or 6 oz. woven. It cost less, is just as easy to apply but provides some extra strength and better abrasion resistance.
Dynel is a leftover from the wooden boats era. Some yards keep using it but it has no advantage.

The only upside I've heard on dynel over glass is abrasion resistance, or that if it is barely wetout (but sufficiently), the standing weave when cured, of dynel, is a good non-slip surface, but I'm no expert on it. If you want glass to do this, I guess it depends on the weight and weave of the cloth, but there are other alternatives to a non-slip surface. I put glass on the cuddy top to make it another strong composite panel (glass on bottom of the panel also). It is VERY strong. Non-slip was not a goal at all.

I do not know whether dynel is superior with lateral abrasive endurance, or *scraping* forces.

Woodenboat articles occasionally mention dynel, I think usually in the context of abrasion resistance or non-slip surface.

my two cents is not worth much more than that on this one.

Though I wonder if its fibers are less likely to tear in a *scraping force*, I'll take Jacques' word for it, that there is no major advantage, while glass adds more overall strength.

ks

Woodbike,
The boat is looking very, very good. I've got the roof on my DE23 two weeks ago, but the weather has kept me indoors the past two weeks. Pictures coming next week.

woodbike wrote:hey I decided to pull the boat out of the workshop and take a look at my progress from afar. As you can tell I have made some progress since the last pictures.

Vicar&Skipper wrote:Woodbike,
The boat is looking very, very good. I've got the roof on my DE23 two weeks ago, but the weather has kept me indoors the past two weeks. Pictures coming next week.

Hey guys, this is more exciting than.... well, you know what!
Woodbike - she is looking great! I'm interested to note you have straightened the sides and raised the roof a little to give you more space, since that's what I am planning to do with the pilot house of my DE23.
Vicar - looking forward to seeing your pics, too.
Keep 'em coming, guys - reading these posts and seeing so much progress from so many builders just makes my day.

After another week -end spent in the work shop ,I walked away realising that I have reached a new threshold.I can say that I am really close to the end of the construction phase.All of the trim pieces are made and glued .All I have left to build are the door to the cabin ,glue down the seat risers and some backing pieces have to be glued in .Then It will only be sanding , painting and the final fitting out .I bought a used trailer , it needs new axels, wiring and a couple of cross braces .I have plans to move it out of the garage in the next few weeks ,I will be able to remove the roof structure push it back in and work on the primer etc.. AT that time I will get some pictured up for you all.
Now the hardest part of all this is deciding where everything is going to be installed .I am sure that I will get some things wrong .So I spend some time looking at local boats ,I really don't think there is one way to do anything .
Ej

I am happy to say that the assembly is in it's final stages .I could be done with the wooodwork and glue in the next week-end or so .It all depends on me ,I just have to stop adding things.Every time I turn around I think of some new little thing to add .Another storage area or shelf etc...
I am getting to the end of the list .
Would you believe it? the second year of building is coming to an end.
I started this thing October two years ago.
How time flies or how slow things go.
A little more sanding and I should be putting some primer on the boat.
It's hard to try and anticipate all the necesary holes and channels for electrical and plumbing .
I am debating on doing a full mockup of all the parts before painting.
This would prevent making holes in the wrong places or size in a painted area.
As soon as I pull the hull out of the shop to remove the superstructure I will take more pictures.
Keep on pluggin away.
EJ.

sanding, more sanding ,fairing,more fairing , coating with epoxy ,sanding more sanding ,fairing and repeat.
How perfect is perfect ?
I keep thinking I am close to primer then I find another area that needs some more sanding .I am getting pretty good at inside corners, the source of most of the frustration .Getting closer to primer ,I have to figure out how I am going to paint all these weird shapes.A sprayer seem to be the most obvious choice since I am dealing with upside down ,vertical , horizointal surfacesand insides of boxes .
Keepin'at it .
EJ

woodbike wrote: .All I have left to build are the door to the cabin ,glue down the seat risers and some backing pieces have to be glued in .Then It will only be sanding , painting and the final fitting out .
Ej

When I read these words in an earlier post, I chuckled to myself. I was wondering if you realized what you said. I've said that many times now. "I'm almost finished, all I have is some sanding and fairing." I'll bet I have more time sanding and fairing than all the other work, and thinking, and worrying.
Hopefully the day will com, huh.

Me too, yoda A LOT more work sanding and fairing than building. And that's just on a GF 16. It took 3 days for the woodwork, 2 weeks to glass it, 2 months to sand, fair and paint it.

After two more days of sanding.I finally got some primer on the boat .Pushed the sucker out of the shop ,hosed it off .So officially It has see water .wipped it off and mixed the first half gallon of primer .Tried to roll it on but made a lot of runs .Will start masking it all tonight and I will try and spray the rest .
I am planning on putting 3 gallons of primer by the end of next week-end ,Then more sanding.and some varnishing on all the clear pieces .
Sore but happy
Eric

I managed to get the hull primed this week-end .All in all I applied 4 gallons of the stuff to the hull .Even the paint that sat on a shelf for almost a year wasn't that hard to mix. One gallon and a half gallon cover the whole thing .
Some areas got more coats than others. I rolled the first half gallon then switched to spraying it .I made a lot less of a mess with the sprayer .
I will have several runs to sand next.Mostly from the rolling .
I ordered the paint today and will try to get it painted next week-end.
I just have to figure out how I can do several coats without stepping on any fresh paint .
I guess I have to figure out how to hover .Has anyone had experience with how hard the finished paint gets after the first hour?
The instructions say that you can recoat after 60 minutes but can you step on it?I guess, I will have to do the floors last .Maybe one heavy coat at the end instead of several thin ones.
More sanding ahead
Eric

ok the most tedious part is hopefully behind me .
Last week -end I spent a total of about 26 hours + sanding the primer on the boat .I had a really hard time getting it smooth .I think the mistake was to let it dry for a week before sanding .The average live span of a sheet of 100 grit paper was about 45 seconds before it quit cutting efficiently .I know I counted mentally many a times .
Anyways I am hoping that I will get paint on this week -end .I haven't figured out yet how I am going to put 3 successive coats on the floors without stepping on the previous one .
Still thinking
Eric

I think it would be a lot easier to sand just one day after application. Try using 60 grit, I dont think having a super smooth primer has much to do with how you finish will turn out, not to mention if you sand the primer too smooth, the paint will have a hard time sticking We have seen this a couple of times where guys have sanded the primer to a shine, then the paint peels off. S3 has told me to go with 100 grit.

Woodbike, I feel for you. The S3 primer is great stuff. When it is cured, it is very tough.

I managed to spray 3 coats of LPU inside and 4 outside of the hull sunday .
I did create a few runs and wavy spots so it looks like the sanding saga never ends .I will try and flatten most of it out this friday and apply one more coat over it all .I will roll and tip it this time /More control over the runs .I still have to work on the contrasting color that will be on the floors and gunwalles.
But the paint should be done this week-end coming up.I will also start on all the bright work.The end better be near I am getting impatient .I am still undecided on most of the fitting out .Hydraulic steering or not ,positions of antenna's lights etc...I have to start looking at motors also I am thinking of a 115 since I did add some weight to the design and I could have 5-7 people onboard at times.
EJ

woodbike wrote:....The end better be near I am getting impatient ...EJ

I'm sure that you were just venting, but don't get impatient at this stage. The last 20% of the build really gets mundane after time, but it is the most visible aspect of the build and worthy of an extra few hours of effort if needed.

Can't wait to see pictures!

EJ Email me if you get a chance..

Thanks

Hoot

hoot@dc.rr.com

woodbike wrote:I managed to spray 3 coats of LPU inside and 4 outside of the hull sunday .
I did create a few runs and wavy spots so it looks like the sanding saga never ends .I will try and flatten most of it out this friday and apply one more coat over it all .I will roll and tip it this time /More control over the runs .I still have to work on the contrasting color that will be on the floors and gunwalles.
But the paint should be done this week-end coming up.I will also start on all the bright work.The end better be near I am getting impatient .I am still undecided on most of the fitting out .Hydraulic steering or not ,positions of antenna's lights etc...I have to start looking at motors also I am thinking of a 115 since I did add some weight to the design and I could have 5-7 people onboard at times.
EJ

If you've used a scraper for wood work, they are very good at shaving off runs. This will reduce your sanding considerably.

I used a single edge razor blade. Worked very well. Hold it 90 degree's to surface and drag it. It will cut the high spots like a plane.

It has been a while since I posted anything here .I am still working on the boat at this time: I am trying to finish the wiring and placement of all the harware.The trailer is almost ready for the big transition .I hope to move it outside for the last time very soon.I am close the the end of this 30 month saga .I will post pictures as soon as I get it out of the shop and on the trailer
EJ

Hey, Woodbike - good to hear from you again, man. Looking forward to seeing the pics!
Mike

The boat is on the trailer.
on it's way this afternooin to the marina to get rigged with a Honda 115 hp .
I still have a few loose ends .I still have a lot of work to do as soon as I get it back . The end is near .I am thinking we will be wet in two weeks.
Pictures to follow soon .
We are thinking of a name for it.
It has been a long road :31 months in the works .I finally get my workshop back ,a lot of dust everywhere .Just getting this reorganised is a big job.
In the end I think it's a two foot boat ,I would take another big jump in time to get it perfect .So learn to live with the flaws.
Eric

Looking forward to pictures.

I think you made a good choice with the "2 foot" finish. That last 10% takes 90% of the effort.

Additionally, a perfect finish after a year of normal usage starts to look like a 2 foot finish.

loaded up some pictures in the gallery ,theses are right after we got it up on the trailer .More trim , the windows ,steering etc ...need to be installed .finished picture are to follow soon .

He Schieve Lavabo,

Een schuun naamke zoe zijn : Stropke

hey wilfred thanks for the suggestion my" Flamand " is a little rusty but I figured out what it means (thanks to dad).My kids want to name it "it's a floater" or "my boat name is better than yours".
Naturally my wife want's it named after her (not really) .
We are still thinking.
Eric

Haha, Jacquesn told me that your roots are in Ghent. I did not understand why somebody used the expression "schieve lavabo"


Wilfried

I grew up in Waterloo and born in Brussels . moved here in 1979 after 18 years there.
I still speak pretty good french but my nederlands is almost completely gone .If you don't use it you loose it .
Eric
ps : I still miss the food and need to go back every few years to get my fix.

Hi Eric,

Great looking boat you have there !

You know that in the beginning I had “Lavaboâ€

I finally got the boat back from the marina .It's sitting in the driveway with a brand new 115 honda on the back .I still have to connect the bilge pumps and put on the rubrail .I am thinking that friday afternoon we will be in the water .
We will finally see what this thing looks like in it's naturall environment .
I still have a long list of to do things but it's getting shorter.
Will post pictures soon
eric

Congratulations Eric, I'm looking forward to seeing her in the water!

Maybe a little pre-mature, but congrats on the launch and finishing the boat

The boat is wet ,it's official .A little beer across the bow, some in the water and off the trailer it went.Looks pretty good in the water .I was quite the windy day too .I had to learn fast how to get it around the boat ramp.
I still have some issues that need resolving.The prop only allows the motor to reach 4300 rpm (17 pitch) It's a new motor so I didn't want to push it too much .I think the roof catches the wind and makes it ride with the bow a little up in the air.
I am thinking about trim tabs to compensate for this .The self bailing feature does allow some water to cover the back of the deck at certain speeds .Trim tabs should help with that too .The shade is great during the day.and it trailers pretty well.I don't think I would drive it very far .
WE crossed some pretty big wakes and the boat is very dry ,doesn't seem to pound much at all .I think I will get it dialed in soon and most of the bugs should be easy to correct .
Lot's of fun
Eric
ps :It has been renamed "BUOY O'BUOY O'BUOY"
in honor of my 3 son's .They wanted to call it "It's a floater"

Your boat looks awesome!!

Congrats!!

That's sweet! I got a new favorite. I'm going to have to make more money- I need a bigger garage.

Eric,

What a beautiful job you have made of that boat! Congratulations! She looks absolutely sweet in the water. You should be very proud of what you have made - and this is the first of it's type in the water, isn't it?

Mike

Congrats Eric! She looks great on the water. If that's your idea of a '2' finish', you can come finish mine too I'm sure all the hours of sanding were forgotten the 1st time you took the wheel and put her in forward. Cheers and enjoy!

I have finally completed the upholstery for the boat .
I bought the equipment and supplies from Sailrite .
It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be .
I made 10 different cushions ...(will post pictures soon)
We have been using the boat almost every week-end .
The water is getting cooler but it's still nice out .
I figure I can put the rest on the windshield up when I get too cold.
Last week -end I ended up in 4-6 foot swells when I crossed Boca Grande pass.It was a learning experience but I am glad to say that the boat behaved very well .I felt in control even in a following sea.
It's pretty amazing when the spray will travel over the whole boat from stem to stern .Or when you surf down a wave.
I regularly get complements from passing boats and at the docks.
The honda 115 seem"s to run better every time I take it out ,I guess it's getting broken in.
I really can't believe how crappy some of the stainless hardware is .
After less then 6 months of use some of it has started to rust and stain.
My piece of advise is :don't buy the cheapest stuff out there.The bronze pieces look great with a little patina.If I had a choice it all would be bronze.
I still have a few small details to work on .I don't think you are ever finished building a boat.
Our next big event is to spend the night onboard with my 3 boys.
Maybe next week-end .

Eric

Eric, congratulation on a great looking boat! What kind of speed were you able to get out of it and does it jump up on plane pretty quickly and was there much "rocking and rolling" ? 4-6 ft. waves, sounds like the hull I'm looking for.

thanks, frazoo

Been a long time since I,ve posted.

Never got a chance to say congrats...last post is July...whats up?

Still working on my DE...had a lot of setbacks...but still chugging.

Hope you still pop in now and again...

Did cushions from sailrite workout?

Good job..wish you could post more pics

Hoot