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Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's official. The plywood arrived on Tuesday and beautiful it is, 19 sheets of 1088 Miranti. I've got most of the details straight in my head, so we're building again, Capt. Sam and I.

I laid out and rough cut the stringers last night. 8 pieces 5 1/2" X 8' of 3/4 ply that will be laminated together. Hope to finish them this weekend and get the bottom and sole layed out and cut. I still have about a gallon of epoxy and a little tape and cloth from the last project to get me started. Need to order more, soon!

Robbie, don't let me finish this one before your GF16 :D

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:43 pm
by timoub007
Cool Larry. Can't wait to see pics of the new rig and Sam.

Tim

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:36 am
by robbiro
Larry,
Glad to see you busy again :!: I hope to get going next week on my project (again) and who knows you may, but I will now have a reason to get after it a little bit harder. Thanks for the reason to find inspiration 8O
Best wishes and
Keep on Buildin'
Robbie

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:26 am
by AdamG
Can't wait to see this one. It's the 18 instead of the 15, but it's virtually the same boat. You think meranti 1088 is nice to look at..wait until you cut it. It is a pretty good smelling wood, too!

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Mixing glue again. Nice to be back at it. If I stall long enough I won't have to do any sanding until next winter. Already getting warm and buggy.

I got the stringer sections laminated together this evening. Will be able to cut them to final size in the morning, then start laying out the bottom.

Adam, I built my GF 16 out of the same plywood, that's why I'm using it again :D It is a pleasure to work with. I save every scrap for something.

Robbie, I figure this one will take a year. It is a lot more complex than the GF and I don't have as much free time now. At least I have the GF to fish with in the mean time 8)

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm.......

My title for this thread says OB 18. It is supposed to say OD 18. I wonder how I can fix that :doh:

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:52 am
by Dimitris
Start a new thread, it's too early. You can copy everything to the new thread, then Jacques can delete this one. Or maybe Jacques can rename it.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:02 am
by TomW
Cracker Larry go to your first Post and you should see an edit button in the upper right corner. See if it will let you edit and change the OB to OD.

That will be easiest.

From a mountain boy to a swamp boy. :D

By the way had to edit this thing twice to get it right.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
TomW, that worked :D Thank you.

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:08 am
by Cracker Larry
Capt. Sam and I got the stringers laminated without glueing him to the floor. Put a few pics in my gallery, let me try to put one here......

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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Cool. Here is Capt. Sam making sure I measure correctly. We caught some crappie this morning from the GF16.


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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:01 am
by TomW
Love Cap't Sam is he the better fisherman? :D

Glad it worked.

Tom

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:06 am
by Yoda
Sam is beautiful. We had a golden for 16 years.

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:04 pm
by Dougster
Double so. Sam's lookin' good. Fine partner for a project I'm sure.

Appreciatin' old Cap'n Sam Dougster

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam says thank you. His mate Delilah here isn't much for boat work, or any other kind of work, but Sam is my buddy, my shadow, my pal. I only wish I was as good as he thinks I am :lol:

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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, accomplished my goal for the weekend. Stringers are finished. Just need to fill screw holes and a final coat of resin....

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And the bottom panels are layed out.....

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and mostly marked......bottom is ready to be cut.

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But it's hot and we drank too many beers to play with power saws any more today. :wink:

So far so good. Nice plans, Jacques :D

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:09 am
by gunner
Larry, did you use the frame for level? Is it going to become a wheeled dolly or are you planning to build on it?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, the frame is multi-purpose. First off I hate dragging that nice plywood on my nasty, lumpy concrete. The concrete also slopes in 2 directions so I've can shim the frames to level. I've got 4 sections, each the size of a sheet of plywood and 1 section 4X4. This allows me to stack them end to end or side by side, whatever I need to do the layout. This boat requires you to lay 5 full sheets out side by side, to lay out the bottom and sole. So with my framing I can place each panel perfectly aligned with the others and screw them into place. Then draw it all out. I can cut everything right on the frame without having to remove the screws.

Once the bottom pieces are cut, then I will lay out 2 1/2 frames end to end to get the side panels marked and cut, while at the same time using the other 2 frames, covered in plastic, to splice the bottom panels.

Then, when all the long panels are cut and spliced, I'll stack 1 section 4X16 framework on top of another (whichever has the least saw cuts), then raise it on blocks, shim to level and use as a building platform. The rest of the framing 2X4s will be re-used for bracing, frame supports and that sort of thing.

No wheels. Got no where to roll it to until it's finished :D

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:12 am
by gunner
Thank you for the response. I have an uneven garage floor ) my shop, which slopes to the front and in from the sides. Your solution is ideal for my situation. We are starting an FS 14 for Grand River fishing as I can eventually just let my son and the fosteer kids have it to use when I build myself something better. The explation is so complete! I will buld mine so I can use the sections for later in the summer when I set something up for Great Lakes Salmon. I'll watch your build-I grew up with dories and I keep coming back to the OD series. Many thanks.

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
My pleasure :D I've got a lot of help from this group, and I try to give some back when I can. What goes around comes around.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got back to it a little today after a few days out of town.

Measured and marked Frame B, the bow deck parts and the transom braces. All ready to cut.

Capt. Sam watches closely and lets me know when I make a mistake :!:

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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:14 am
by ks8
Looks like Capt Sam has a bit of a scowl just then? Was that just as you cracked another beer, but still had three more cuts to make that day? 8O :P

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:29 am
by Cracker Larry
Nah, he was scowling because I measured Frame B wrong and is pointing out my error.

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:26 am
by ks8
Crossed legs and all... attitude... :lol:

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:12 pm
by Daddy
I know I should not say this but he reminds me (Capt Sam) of the way Dick Cheney looks when he doesnt like the question.
Ashamed of himself Daddy

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:49 pm
by TomW
AH Thats why he was pointing at the square :!:

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
Another good afternoon. Sam and I got the bottom cut out...

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And frame B, and the bow deck and the transom braces...

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Then we layed out the sole....

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And cut it all out....Sure love this little Dewalt saw :!:

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Didn't even say a cuss word 8O

Tomorrow's goal, transom and all other frames .....

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:24 pm
by Dougster
Man you move fast and smooth. No way I can keep up with you and the Captain. Fine pictures, C Larry, they make a fellow feel good.

Admiring Crackerman and the big red guy Dougster

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:37 pm
by jeremy
Nice! It's starting to have a boatish shape.

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:50 am
by TomW
Yea love those little DeWalts. 18 or 24?

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:22 am
by Cracker Larry
18V. I'm surprised at how long the battery lasts. I made all those cuts yesterday on one charge.

Thank you Doug and Jeremy. This is my 3rd. stitch and glue, so I've learned some tricks. I would not have wanted to build this boat first.

The Capt. and I are heading back to it........

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:46 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
You have a more exacting taskmaster than I do. The cat could care less because there is less noise to interrupt his nap when I am not working. The Captain is a great looking companion and seems to know his way around those plans. How much does he work for? I'll bet more than just "Kibbles and Bits :!: :D "
You continue to be my inspiration 8) and just to it pass on, I finally got the first piece of deck glued down last night and smoothed the edges tonight. I have run the beginnings of my wiring, but still need to get the heavier stuff for the trolling motor and big motor.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
He works cheap Robbie, all he wants is my company. It sounds like you're getting close to finished :!:

Sam and I worked most of Saturday and got all the frames and the transom cut out...

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The transom has a nice look.....

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Then we cleaned up from all that and re-arranged the frames to lay out the 4 X 20 side panels. I stacked the plywood 2 thick so I would only have to mark and cut once and have matching sides.

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Sam had a long day......

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Today we got all the measuring and marking done for side panels....

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And cut it all out.



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All hull parts are all now cut 8) A good weekends work. Time to start mixing glue :lol:

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
My legs, calves, shinbones, feet, arms and back are so sore today, from 3 days of bending and lifting, that I can hardly walk :oops: I'll be glad to raise this work surface higher. Even Sam is sore.

Giving it a rest for a day or 2. Waiting on resin and cloth to arrive anyway. I expected it today. Glad it didn't come, I don't want to lift it :)

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:00 am
by Cracker Larry
I spoke too soon. After I posted that a neighbor drove up with my epoxy. It was delivered to the wrong address. The guys at Bateau came through again :D

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:05 am
by familyman
I love the cutting surface platform.... If I ever do this again, I will have to remember that set up, and heed the advice to raise it a bit. Things are sure coming together nicely it looks like. I appreciate the help on "Familyman OD18". Hope your legs are feeling better soon.

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
Much better today, Brian, thanks :D Good to go for tomorrow.

Just unpacked my resin shipment and everything is System3 :doh: I didn't mean to order System3, meant to order MarinePoxy. I looked up my order though, and that's what I ordered, so that's what I get for ordering at midnight from a motel room in the Carolina mountains after an evening of fun. My mistake, I'm sure. No problem mon.

Is there anything special about System3 that I need to know? And will the MarinePoxy work with it when I need to order more?

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
Moving right along. The System3 with slow hardener does work at 50 degrees :D Record cold this weekend but we've made a little progress.

Got the side panels finished up and put them aside.....

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Layed the bottom back out and got it marked and ready for splicing....

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Cut out all the butt blocks and positioned them.....


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Then mixed the glue and spliced everything together. It set up nicely overnight so in the heat of the afternoon we glued down the stringers to the bottom...
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Delila checked us out and got glue on herself.

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Then we spliced together the 2 parts of mold B. I've been moving it around trying to keep it in the sun.
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I've got to get a better camera. The cell phone photos are poor. :cry:

Tomorrow we should be able to put some frames on and see what she's going to look like 8) [/img]

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
A couple of better photos of butt blocks and stringers......
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:49 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
The Captain does not let you get very far from the work, does he? The new ride is really showing how much of a taskmaster he is and how good you are at this craft. I have had a zero week with sick kids and then me getting it and the cold air makes it even worse. I do have big plans, but just need for everything to fall into place.

Keep on Buildin' (and keep working, or the Captain may give you what for :!: )

Robbie

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:25 am
by Cracker Larry
I wish I could teach him to hold and tighten a clamp. These opposing ones are tricky working solo.

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:20 am
by Dougster
Sure does look good. Makes me want to start my Nina over and use some of your good ideas. Uh, well, maybe I don't want to go backwards, maybe the next build? :) It's a comfort how fast you work: in a bit you'll be ahead of me and I can put your tips to use. Say hi to the Captain.

Fussing along with Nina Dougster

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:09 am
by msujmccorm
Man Larry you don't mess around. Looking good quick.
Captain Sam must run a tight ship up there.

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:07 pm
by tech_support
Just unpacked my resin shipment and everything is System3 :doh: I didn't mean to order System3, meant to order MarinePoxy. I looked up my order though, and that's what I ordered, so that's what I get for ordering at midnight from a motel room in the Carolina mountains after an evening of fun. My mistake, I'm sure. No problem mon.

Is there anything special about System3 that I need to know? And will the MarinePoxy work with it when I need to order more?
No problem using S3, just wait until it cures before using Marinepoxy over it. The S3 might have little blush to contend with also.

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:18 pm
by ks8
Robbiro wrote:
... I do have big plans, but just need for everything to fall into place.
Well, if that ain't a fairly universal observation! :lol: Guess that's why we all have to keep looking up (for when it all comes falling into place)! :)

Great pace you've got going Larry. Is that epoxy on the floor from a previous build? :P My next boat I think I'll spring for cheap exterior to lay on the floor. Epoxy is a pain trying to clean off of concrete. Looking forward to her taking shape on the strongback, but I bet not as much as you! :wink:

The capt will soon be looking for shade under the inverted hull. And soon enough I'm sure you'll be glad of that slow hardener.

Enjoy!

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Joel. It does seem to be a little less viscuous. Maybe I'll stck with it.

KS, yes that's glue from 2 previous builds :oops: I've tried everything to get it off. Got a lot off with a propane torch and putty knife but it blackens the floor. One day I'll probably grind it off.

We didn't get a lot done today. My wife seemed to think that boatbuilding was not what I should be doing on Easter :help:

But we did get the transom attached, and the rear frame and the transom braces and temporary cleats....
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Then we measured and positioned the rest of the frames......
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The boat really grew! Building space is getting tighter.

Next weeks project: side panels. Then it will start looking like a boat. :D

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:08 pm
by PastorBob
My wife seemed to think that boatbuilding was not what I should be doing on Easter
Good for Her :lol: Happy Easter

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
But Pastor Bob, once we've said our prayers and visited with family and killed and cooked and ate the lamb, and drank the wine and cracked the eggs too (Greek Orthodox family) :wink: Still got some daylight left. Then it's time for my therapy.

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:46 pm
by mecreature
dont skimp on therapy...

this is a good one to watch.

thanks for posting and keeping us updated..

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
The report for the week is slow progress, but we managed to get a few things done. The slow hardener and cool temperatures make for a long wait between steps. Lows have been in the 40s, highs in the 70s. Windy as heck now and soon to rain. Supposed to be in the 30s tomorrow night! That's just not right for Savannah in April.

We got all the mold/frames perfectly positioned, squared, plumb and cattywhompass even. They are secured in position by 2X4s attached to the stringers. These will also be the legs for the strongback when the boat is flipped.

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After getting these and the transom positioned we started splicing the panels for the sides. Each side is made of 3 panels, and each panel is made of 3 pieces, so that is 12 splices. 24 if you count both sides. Space is getting at a premium.


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And we also managed to get the transom permanently glued to the bottom, without getting it glued to the temporary braces, I hope :)

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And Sam is doing his best to glue himself to the floor again...one advantage to slow hardner.

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And the other one shows up to get in it too...

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So that's about it. Waiting on some splicing to cure so I can move it aside and do some more. I should have bought some fast hardner also :idea: Three more panels to splice then I can put on the sides.

I'm running out of places to shift things to. This is about as big a boat as I would want to build in this space.

Oh, yeah, I got my real camera working again so maybe you can actually tell what you're looking at now.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:13 pm
by stickystuff
Am I missing something here? I would think you build it upside down on the frame. This way all the tops are true and plumb with each other. I think you are doing this backwards. ???Check the tutorials again before you go any further. Maybe I am wrong . I don't think so. LIke I said. ????

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:01 pm
by Spokaloo
Historically dories of all shapes and sizes (esp our beloved Pacific dories here in Oregon and Washington) were built with their keel flat on the ground. When they needed rocker on the bottom, the two ends were blocked up and the central section of the keel was nailed or screwed to the jig. On the later power dories, the keel was flat, and a little blocking at the bow lifted it up into the appropriate entry.

Just how its done, at least in the past.

E

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:53 am
by Cracker Larry
Ken the building notes say to build it flat on the bottom just like she sits. Sharpie method. After the sides and rubrails go on, you do a little inside tack welding then flip the boat and complete the outside. Then you flip it back and complete the inside. At least that's how the instructions explain it. I'm sure it could be built upside down from the start, but I hope I'm following the directions :doh:

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:33 am
by ks8
Capt Sam doesn't seem to be voicing any objections... 8)

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:40 am
by ddbiiz
Larry,
I built mine the same way, tack it all together than flipped finished bottom then flipped again. I used zip ties at bow area that part was a bear to get together hind sight being 20/20 I should have used more to make finishing easier!!! 8)

Don
OD18
C-Hawk 23 rehab
CS 25 next I have the plans just need the cash!!

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:55 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the confirmation Don, Ken had me a little worried as he is a more experienced builder than I.

The bow area does look like it will be a bear to bend. I was thinking of maybe cutting a stem piece to attach the sides together?

Thanks for everyone's input. If anyone thinks I'm screwing something up, feel free to point it out 8) I'm still learning.

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:08 pm
by gk108
After looking at the earlier pictures when you were first putting the bottom together, I noticed that the OD18 goes together a little differently than the OD16, too. It probably boils down to the best way to make a structure that can withstand being flipped while at the same time being light enough to easily manage the flip.

Not sure what the notes would say about bending the side panels at the bow, but it seems like it would be easiest to stitch the panels at the bow first and then bend them around the frames. :doh:

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:10 pm
by Spokaloo
You would be amazed what zipties can do, no need for a stem.

Look at my LB blog, those bow sections have a MONSTER curve, and my stitches held at 6" apart. Just have enough, make sure they are 3/8" or larger, and start loose. Slowly tighten them sequentially, a little at a time and it will come together just fine.

E

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
That sounds like a good plan. This is my first pointy bow project.

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:35 pm
by timoub007
Larry, it sure is coming together. I appreciate the pics and know that you're making it look pretty easy. I mean, Sam is just laying around not even breaking a sweat. LOL

I hope that weather wasn't as bad for you as we had Friday night. Keep the pics coming.

Tim

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:50 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tim. The weather has been terrible windy and our power has been out since yesterday morning. Running on the generator, though, so it's not so bad. No good for boat work.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:42 am
by TomW
Larry, really looking good. You and Capt. Sam make it look smooth. Lots of wind and some snow in the high mountains here with lots of trees down hope your folks are ok.

Tom

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:05 am
by Cracker Larry
Lots of trees down but no damage here. Power is finally back on :D Thanks to Generac, no real inconvenience, and the wind has settled down.

I'm off and it looks to be a good building day :!:

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, beautiful day!

In an easy couple of hours we got both chine panels stitched in position and ready to tab in place.

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I am amazed that they were a perfect fit. Jacques really knows what he is doing. 8) I would never in 1,00 years figured out that these weird curved panels would bend to this shape. I approached it with trepidation, but when the panels were presented to the boat they fell right into place with a minimum of stitches. Nice job Jacques :!:

Note that these are 18' panels that Sam and I installed without help and without a cuss word.


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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:59 am
by Cracker Larry
Well, I almost messed up, and nobody stopped me :oops: I forgot that these frames have to come back out, so I have to be real careful not to glue them in! I guess I should cover the edges in plastic, which means removing the stitches, installing plastic and re-stitch. Glad I took a thinking break before I started mixing glue.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:42 pm
by gunner
Larry- you could likely tab between for assembly purpose- then cut the stitches. It seems a shame to waste the good alignment you have.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Good suggestion, but I might as well do it right, so I don't have to worry about it. It will allow me to be sloppy without danger. :D

So we fixed it. I just cut the stitch at each mold, one at a time, slipped in the plastic, wrapped and stapled it around the mold, and then replaced the stitch and moved to the next one. It only took about 30 minutes and did not disturb the alignment, doing one mold at a time.

After that we put duct tape all the way around the outside seam where the chine meets the bottom. That's to hold the glue I will put on from the inside. In most places I have a gap about 1/16 inch. Perfect.

Then I gave the seams a good epoxy precoat all the way around, mixed up some glue and built some small fillets between the molds to tack it in place. The bow piece was tricky to get together and I ended up mixing a big thick gob and packing it in there. That'll hold her.

No pictures today, stayed too sticky to hold the camera. Then it got dark. Had to keep Sam inside for a while. He likes to participate too much for his own good sometimes.

Tomorrow I will tab on some tape in strategic spots to make sure she holds.

Plodding forward and having fun :D

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:35 pm
by Lon
Mar 30, 2007:
"Then we layed out the sole.... (Capt Sam and I)
Didn't even say a cuss word"
Apr 18, 2007:
"Had to keep Sam inside for a while. He likes to participate too much for his own good sometimes."
Bet you that locked up old red dog called you something today!

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:52 pm
by Dougster
Thanks for all the pictures, it makes following this beautiful build really fun. Your work is inspirational, and I have no doubt the Capt. will forgive you.

Enjoying the show Dougster

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes he did :? He finally talked me into letting him out, then he promptly stepped on a fresh taped side panel. Did that today also.

These side panels are slow. Glue and tape. Fix dog footprints. Wait 48 hours. Flip. Tape other side. Fix dog footprints. Wait 48 hours. 2 at a time.

Where's all this global warming :doh:

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Doug, I've enjoyed yours every bit as much. With perserverance we'll both have a nice boat. 8)

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:37 pm
by PastorBob
Where's all this global warming
I have thought that statement many times this "spring" :?

Boat is looking good I thought of you today as I petted my dog and realized that she had rubbed against the boat when I put on the rub rail and now has nice crusty spot of hardened epoxy! I immediately thought of your comments of a successful day of building when Sam get through it without being glued to the floor :D.

We are thinking of coming to Claxton before summers end so build fast :lol: Looks Great Good Work

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Pastor Bob, if you're coming to Claxton, GA, the fruitcake capital of the world, then you need to come by and see me. I went through Claxton today for a job. 1 hr. drive. This boat won't be finished before summers end, but the GF16 stays ready to go with a full tank of gas. I can at least send you back with a mess of fish and shrimp.

Watch out for the dog, warm weather and quick hardner 8O Trust me they can become glued to the floor during a short nap. They sort of panic when they try to get up and can't. :help:

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:32 pm
by Dougster
Hah! :D I got a picture of that in my mind, the Capt. glued down and not pleased about it. Of course I would keep a straight face on in his presence.

Knows his place Dougster

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Been a slow week for boat work, only a couple of hours available to putter, but at least the weekend is here 8)

We left off wrapping the mold edges in plastic, so we would not glue them in.

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Then we tack glued the chine panels to the bottom panel everywhere we could. After gluing, we tabbed in short sections of light tape every few inches to make sure it will hold. This will all get ground off before the permanent fillets and tape go on. That's why I didn't try to make it pretty.

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Anytime I have a little left over resin, we use it to pre-coat something that will need it. No waste so far.

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The bow was especially tricky, but duct tape and cable ties, along with a wad of glue has it secured.

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The lower side panels are ready to install, but Sam, Delilah and I all 3 could not hold the panel in place and secure it by ourselves :? Sam says he's sorry but without an opposing thumb he just can't work a clamp. That 18' bendy floppy panel is hard to handle 8O So we quit before we cussed and tomorrow I'll enlist the help of my neighbor (who owns a Cracker Built GF12) and we'll get them on there :D

A little every day.......

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Not sure what happened to my pictures :doh: Oh well, ya seen one tab, ya seen em all.

There, I fixed them 8)

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:15 am
by gunner
Great job Larry. I am enjoying the progress reports. Sam is the true supportive helper!

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Gunner. Sam is supportive and good company, but I wish my helper would stay out of the glue. He glued one of his ears to the side of his head yesterday :help:

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, this weekends' update:

My neighbor came over and gave me a hand with the lower side panels. We screwed a few 2X4 blocks along the chine panels to support and position the edges. Then we positioned one panel and slid it fore and aft until the fit was as close as it was going to get. It was perfect at the bow, perfect amidships, perfect at the stern. But :doh: between frames B and C, there was a gap. An ugly gap 8O that we couldn't correct by any panel positioning. So we clamped it on and installed the other one. Again perfect in every respect, except it had the same gap between frame B and C. At least I was consistent.

The bow came together perfectly and a generous amount of stitches pulled in the curve, no problem. I'm proud of this part.....

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Back to the gap. I had no reason to doubt the plans, but I had a gap starting at frame B, widening to center frame about 1.5 inches and tapering back to fit at frame C. To big to fill with goo, I had to cut a patch, so we held a piece of scrap plywood to the outside of the gap and traced around the inside. Then I cut them out on the bandsaw. Glad I have a bandsaw, don't know how I would cut this otherwise. Router maybe.

Got the patches cut and they fit perfectly. Then I had to figure out if they should be part of the side panel, or part of the chine panel. A little fitting determined they should be part of the chine. We covered the outside of the seams with duct tape, fit in the patches (coated with goo), attached some more blocks to the chine for alignment, and if I didn't tell you about it you would probably never know.

You can see the long, thin, half moon shaped filler piece here....Still not sure how this happened, but Sam says I measured something wrong and I suspect he is right.

Image

May all future gaps be as easy to fix 8) .........

After I took this picture the camera decided to quit again. Not too impressed with Olympus BTW.

Anyway, we got these panels all stitched on, packed some more goo around the patch, filled all seams with glue and tabbed the panels to each other with lots of tape. The lines are nice and fair. She is looking like a boat now. :D

At the stem I made a thick fillet on the inside seam, burying the inside of the cable ties in the glue. Also glued on the panels at the transom.

Left this all to cure and then spliced together the 6 sections to make the upper side panels. I will go out in a little while to flip them and tape the other side. Then I will be done with side panels :D

It is progressing faster than I thought it would. I've had the materials a month. To date 55 hours labor, not counting Sam, and exactly 1.5 gallons of epoxy.

This weeks' goal will be to install the upper panels. By the weekend we should be installing rubrails. Next weekend we should be ready to flip the hull and complete the outside.

Maybe I can squeeze another picture out of the camera...

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
No, no more pictures from that camera. :roll:

We did flip the panels and make the last splices. I'll be glad to get these long pieces out from underfoot. Already had to fix another paw print.

I'll let everything rest a couple of days to make sure the resin is cured. Then we'll have room to walk around again :D

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:17 pm
by ks8
Great progress. Sure do look floatable! :)

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:07 pm
by Dougster
I looks awful good, and a nice, clever fix you made of the gap. Who knows where it came from? My Nina is about 2 inches too wide in the beam. The two stations are made of scrape and I'll just cut final frames to fit when it's time. Maybe I could work faster if I had a partner like the Capt. :)

But he doubts it Dougster

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:05 am
by TomW
Cracker, try a Canon been using them since I was in the Navy in the 70's, never had no problems, in fact still have second one from '77.

Tom

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:28 am
by Deltaskipper
Cracker Larry wrote:No, no more pictures from that camera. :roll:
If your main problem is battery life try the new Rayovac Hybred rechargeables. I switched to them and have nothing but good to say. They last far, far longer than the Energizers I was using and recharge much, much faster. I like them so much I now use them in all my battery burners. Best of all I didn't have to get a new charger. Currently I think they are only at Walmart.
8)

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:00 am
by Cracker Larry
That is my main problem, battery life. how did you guess? This thing will drain 4 AA cells taking 12 pictures. Will try your advice before buying a Canon. Thanks.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:12 am
by ks8
With the flash on, even if not needed, and even if it doesn't flash, I get 12-18 or so out of my Sony. I rarely need the flash. With it turned off, I get about 70 to 80 pictures. With it on, it keeps charging the flash *in case* it is needed, and that zaps the batteries. The price we pay for point and shoot immediate readiness technology.

If you do not need the flash, change the flash setting so it is off. I think you will double triple or quad the pictures you can get out of one set of batts, or one charge. Because the engineers understand this, the flash setting is usually a very easy access change, without having to go through 3 or 4 levels of menus. Sony has it as an almost dedicated button in and of itself. :)

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:43 am
by Dimitris
I think your baterries are off. They must be destroyed. You would better use a smart charger that does not overcharge your batteries. 12 pictures, even with flash are too few for 4 AA cells. Anyway, 4 new 2500 mAh Ni-MH AA cells are not expensive, compared to the cost of a new Li-Ion battery for my Nikon 4300 which is also off :(

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:35 pm
by frazoo
I had the same problem with my camera (a x-mas present) until I bought one of the "power packs" recommended by the manufacturer. The power pack is made-together cluster of AA's in one slip in unit. I went from getting 12 to 15 pics per battery exchange to still going strong after 56 pics including some flash shots. I went thrugh the regular AA's prior to buying this thing at an astonishing rate. I cussed the camera on a regualar basis until the wifey got tired of hearing it and called the local camera shop and made the purchase for me. Now, it's a great 'lil camera!

good luck

frazoo

P.S. this is the same technology used in all battery powered drills and power tools, and for some reason they last longer than the same number of seperate dry cell batteries

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:56 pm
by markhoutx
i use a Sony digital camera that uses two alkaline AA batteries in my work as an insurance adjuster, with or without flash, I can take 500 pictures a day, 7 days a week for 2 weeks before I have to change batteries.

just my 2 cents

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:59 pm
by TomW
Larry did not realize it was the batteries, not the camera. Definately go to Walma** an get a charger and batteries, they come together. I don't know if you use 2 or 4 in your camera if you use 4 get a second set of batteries. I did this for my wife when I brought her into the 21st century with a new Canon and it is amazing how long a set of four lasts in her camera.

I should point out that each camera is different and one camera will eat batteries faster than another. A four battery camera is better than a two battery one.

Good luck

Tom

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the advice. It is a 4 battery camera. I used to use the re-chargables but didn't have much luck, so switched to plain old Duracell AAs.

I will check my flash, good idea. I haven't been using it but it might be on. Will stop by Walmart on the way home today for some of those hybrids.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:27 pm
by ks8
Definitely do NOT get rechargeable NiCads as they do not put out the same voltage per cell (it is a little lower) and they simply won't run some digital cameras. Alkalines have the consistent voltage and punch, but not always the longevity.

There, now go build your boat, or we may have to award a *beating a dead horse* award for camera and battery talk... (I think Joel has the GIF of it)... :lol:

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:58 pm
by tech_support
per your request, my favorite :D ...

Image

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:22 pm
by Dimitris
No, no more pictures from that camera.
It's for the pictures that we talk, not for the camera :D

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:58 pm
by TomW
Right ks8 they are NiMH not NiCad, totally different animals.

Larry they also come in different powers, 1800, 2100, 2500. get a charger and batteries that can handle the 2500's they last longerby the percentage of increase in power.

Hope I got this to you before you left work. Ks8 reminded me of the NiMh differences.

Tom

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks, just got home. Went by Wally World and I noticed they had different ratings, so I got the 2500's and a charger.

We'll see how they hold up. Will also check the flash to see if it's on. I've had this camera a couple of 3 years. It takes good pictures but I've never had any success with batteries. It seems to be worse than it used to be. If this doesn't help it's time for a new one. I can't stand stuff that doesn't work well.

I appreciate all the advice.

OK Joel, the horse is dead :D

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:41 pm
by TomW
Yea, we can get back to building boat. :D

Tom

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:06 pm
by anonymous
How're you coming on your boat, Tom?

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:40 pm
by TomW
I have far to many projects going on probably its on hold till fall or winter. I look at the plans every day and wander out to the garage and workshop an move things around pretending I am doing something.

Oh well it will come :!: At least I have the wood for the frame on the floor. I always have plenty of wood.

Tom

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Back to building a boat, Sam wanted you to see this...we are ready to install the upper side panels......

Image

And this.....

Image

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
We've got the lower side panels ready to receive the upper side panels, and vice versa.

Here is a tip that may help some builders.....

The upper panel will overlap the lower by 6", requiring a line drawn 6" from the edge of all 4 sections, so we will know how to align them, and where to apply the glue. This could be tedious to measure and mark and connect the dots along, ummm...., 72 linear feet, along curved edges. Hmmm....lets make a marking gauge. This will save a couple hours. 5 minutes to make it, 5 minutes to mark it all. Any time you have to do something repititious , make a gauge or jig.

We start with a scrap of 1X2 about 8" long. On one end I screw a 1/4 ply spacer about 1 1/2" square. Exactly 6" below that I drill a 1/8" hole all the way through. From the back side I drill a hole that my pen will fit in snugly, but stop it short so only the pen point protrudes through the 1/8 hole. A picture is worth a lot of words. Like this....

Image

Now all we have to do is to run it along all the edges and it will draw a perfect 6" line. Like this....
Image

And like this.......
Image

5 minutes to make it, 5 minutes to use it, all the marking is done.

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:05 am
by TomW
Nice jig looks like you've done some carpentry in your lifetime. :D

Boat and pictures and Sam look great!

Tom

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom. Yep, I've built a thing or 2. Still room to learn and time to teach.

Here's what the inside of the stem is looking like. I'm not sure how thick to build this fillet?

Image

The stitches are buried, but it doesn't seem stout enough for a stem. Yet.

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:27 am
by Cracker Larry
And another perspective...

Image

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:35 am
by TomW
Doesn't it get some fiberglass tape. Check your lamination schedule. 1/2" filets should be all you need anywhere.

Where would we all be without each other. :D

Tom

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:47 am
by Spokaloo
The fillet isnt particularly strong at this stage. Its the (im guessing as I dont have the laminating schedule in front of me for your boat) 2-4 layers of glass that really stiffen it up. Add the deck and you have a very strong joint on the bow. Fillets arent the strong point, they are the transition and distributor.

E

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:59 pm
by mecreature
thanks for the tip Larry.. I see this stuff but forget to do it when I am at that point... LOL

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:06 pm
by Jerry-rigged
Hummm.... :D 8) :D

Without the upperside panel, that looks like it would be a sharp looking backwater boat. Maybe raise the sole a bit, add some wide gunnels, it would look sharp & fast.

Looks great, and really fast progress, CL-

Wheels in my head are spinning...

Jerry

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:06 pm
by ks8
The glass tape and layup will make the *stem* strong. At this point, you've got two options. 1- you could build up a structure through which to attach a bow eye and glass over that. or 2- you could just glass it up and then add an additional structure over the glassed fillet, through which to attach the bow eye.

If you are going to flatten the bow on the outside at all for the mounting of it, just make sure that you've got enough *meat* on the inside to maintain the strength for the loads on the bow eye. It's not a big deal at all, but just one of those things to bear in mind while thinking about how it will be when finished with the mounted bow eye.

But then Sam's probably mentioned that already.... Enjoy! :)

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:46 pm
by TomW
ks8, its called a backing plate, goes on the inside and Jacque normally provides for it somewhere in his plans. :D On mine its on the Structure Hull and Deck Plan Sheet, Larry. Don't worry about it till you get inside. :D

Tom

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:35 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the input, everyone. I appreciate all advice.

Yes, it does get tape, but not until the upper panels are on. KS, that's exactly what I was thinking, about the bow eye. It will need a flat spot to mount it, requiring plenty of meat behind it for grinding room, and plenty of support for a backing plate.

Jerry, I was thinking the same thing, it would make an excellent flats skiff at this stage. The sole is at 5 1/2" so it would not need raising. Interesting idea :idea:

We've got nothing done this week. I had to make a quick trip down to Belize, but back now so maybe we'll get the sides finished up.

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
We got a little done this weekend. Not as much as I hoped but still making progress.

Yesterday we managed to get the upper side panels on and dry fit to position. It was tedious work and any movement up, down, fore or aft changes the shear line. Finally got satisfied with it and made wooden brackets to secure it in position. These are covered with plastic for obvious reasons.

Image

I really like the lines.

Image

Image

After I was completely satisfied, we removed one side and pre coated both mating surfaces with resin. Then mixed a large batch of glue and spread liberally on the panel. Had to work fast, it was 90 degrees today.

Image

It was a challenge to get this long floppy glue covered panel into place, but we got it. And secured it. It was an excellent fit. 8)

Image

After this, Sam and I decided that was enough. We'll let the Stbd. side dry and do the port side another day. Sam was tired.

Image

This is how he gets glued to the floor. :cry:

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
I forgot to add that we took a rookie out bush lining catfish last night in the GF16. I learned he doesn't see too good and he's real scared of snakes. I kept telling him to watch out for that mocassin in the tree, but he thought I was kidding 8O We ended up with the snake in the boat and him in the water. Then I told him to watch out for that alligator :wink: Sam and I haven't laughed so hard in a long time :lol: :lol: :lol:

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:03 pm
by Dougster
Boy I need a trip with you. Good to work the 'drenal gland now and then. Got me a burst today when I went out to the screen porch, headed for the door, and encountered a rat snake (bull snake?) hangin' down from the handle to the floor. Good 'drenal purge :D Anyway, yes indeed, such pretty lines. Beautiful work. As I struggle on I learn more and more appreciation of the work some of you folks do.

Proud just to be in the game Dougster

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah Doug, I like to keep it interesting. Just passing through and only get to do it once.

We haven't done a thing this week. The smoke is so bad from forest fires south of us that we can't hardly stand to be outside longer than a few minutes. I sure hope it rains soon :help: :help:

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:10 am
by gunner
You are moving at a great rate. Sam is obviously a good manager. Has his sleeping time down just fine!

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:32 pm
by Dougster
Hope you got some rain---we got 4.5" last night out of a big thunder boomer system. Lot's of years around this time we get a smoke haze from Mexico that is a bummer. Must be a lot worse there, so hope you got some rain out the the system that triggered our Texas stuff. Give my respects to Sam.

Not wanting to wear a respirator just to go outside Dougster

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:46 am
by Cracker Larry
No rain, but we have a small chance over the weekend. Smoke was terrible yesterday although a little better this morning. Sam and I went out at sunrise and got the last side panel glued on. No problems with it at all. Looks like I can start rubrails this weekend, if smoke allows.

They are telling people to remain indoors and have put our county under a state of emergency, whatever that means.

These fires are getting serious and no relief in sight. Over 100,000 acres have burned and it is not half contained. There are over 1,000 firemen plus the military trying to stop it. 8O

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:58 am
by Spokaloo
Good luck down there. I used to work for the forest circus so I know how your feeling in all that nastiness.

Strange thing is, if the Nat'l Guard wasn't over in Iraq, you would have 2500 or so troops fighting down there. Sad eh.

Hang in there, monsoon season will be here shortly.

E

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 4:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's raining :D :D :D

And the wind has shifted :D :D

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:43 pm
by Dougster
Glad to hear it Larry :D

Likes that wet stuff Dougster

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 9:57 am
by Cracker Larry
Well, we got a much needed 1/2", more than we've had in months. Unfortunately most of the rain seems to be going north of us and we just caught the southern tip of the front. No rain at all on the fires, doesn't look like there will be any :cry:

Off to mix some glue........

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:38 pm
by frazoo
Cracker Larry wrote:I forgot to add that we took a rookie out bush lining catfish last night in the GF16. I learned he doesn't see too good and he's real scared of snakes. I kept telling him to watch out for that mocassin in the tree, but he thought I was kidding 8O We ended up with the snake in the boat and him in the water. Then I told him to watch out for that alligator :wink: Sam and I haven't laughed so hard in a long time :lol: :lol: :lol:
CL, I had nightmares for ten years after leaving Ft. Benning 'cause I was young enough and dumb enough to go night fishing with some good ole boys I hung out with way back when. Kudos to you and Sam on a great looking job.

frazoo

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:48 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Have not heard from you in a few days and was wondering if it got too hot in your area of the swamps for you, or was that the fire that was put out? Just to let you know that we have been thinking about you and yours.

Robbie

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Robbie. All is well here, just been busy with things, staying on the go this week.

The fires are still spreading south of us. Maybe this little storm off the coast will give it some rain. The good news for us is that the wind has been out of the north for about 3 days and gave us some relief. I feel real sorry for those south of the fires. I heard it was bad all the way down at Disney World. Largest fire in the history of the state, and it's not over yet. No National Guard either. I also feel bad for the tornado victims in Kansas and the flood victims in Missouri, and we've now got a tropical storm off our coast. Not getting any rain, but a lot of strong wind, which just helps the fires. What's up with the weather?

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 7:50 am
by tech_support
Smoke here in Vero also. We all need rain :!:

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've been remiss with keeping up my reports and photos. Been busy with work and fun, traveling and fishing, but doing some boat work when we're home and the smoke isn't too bad.

We finished up the side panels, got everything tabbed in place to prepare for flipping, finished up the strong back base to flip it onto.

Cut out all the rubrail strips and started glueing them on. Almost finished, one more round to go. Should be able to flip her over next week and finish the outside. Sam asked that I share this.....



Image

I'll try to catch up with other photos this weekend, after I finish those @#%*&# rub rails :D

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:49 am
by Cracker Larry
I found myself with some free time this morning to catch up. As I said, we finished the side panels...

Image

Then we glassed the transom corners inside to their final laminations...

Image

And we filleted the stem and gave it a couple layers of tape. It will get some more.....

Image

Also temporarily tabbed all the molds to the topsides, fore and aft. These will have to be ground off so we approached them conservatively and with trepidation :? Photo to follow.

After this, we cut all the rubrail strips. I had purchased a full sheet of 1/4 ply for this, so I would not have to piece together scraps. The plans call for a 1 3/4' wide rail, but it looked too skimpy for the boat. We tried a 3" strip and it looked too fat. So we settled on 2 1/4", just right I think. I cut them with a circular saw and straight edge. We have a table saw, but I think this is safer and more accurate than handling a whole sheet of plywood on the table saw....

Image

Then we started glueing on the strips. In this photo you can also see the tabbing on the molds and the soon to be used strongback. This is also handy for a work table for this glue job 8)

Image

So we've got one more layer to go and I'm heading out to tackle it.

Oh yeah, Sam thought you might want to see what our shop looks like inside.

The mixing area..

Image

The thinking and planning area...

Image

And the drinking area...refrig under bar...

Image

OK. That brings us up to date. :lol:

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:17 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
A fridge, A/C, and a good dog. I bet your wife has to call you in at night! Enjoy the build, I know we are.

Huck

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 am
by Cracker Larry
Also have a propane stove and heater. No running water though, so I have to go in to shower.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:46 pm
by airman40
Nice Shop! I love the idea of a mini bar right in the man cave. I may have to steal that Idea for myself.

David

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:47 pm
by Randy
Larry,
You are getting me excited about building an OD18, but I am trying to hold out for the arrival of the FS17 plans, before I make my decsion for sure.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:44 pm
by gunner
no portapotti??????????????? :

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:56 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
If it's just you and Sam, you don't really need a shower every day. They have a bathroom at the convenience store where you will replenish most non-epoxy related supplies. Sounds like you got a real man-haven, there!

Huck

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:01 pm
by TomW
Larry, agree with you on handling 4x8 1/4 on the table saw, tough to keep it tight to the fence. Have a similar jig to yours, nice shop.

Don't blame you for getting out of the smoke I had one night of it and that was enough. We are in a severe drought here in the mountains and no burning allowed.

Best wishes Tom

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:56 pm
by WobblyLegs
I know it's you and Sam building, but you keep forgetting to get photo's of Sam with a drill in his paw, or, are you going to get him to do the s*nding come fairing time?

Very nice work.

I don't know how some of you guys manage to build so quick!

Tim.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Huck, not just Sam and I, there is a wife and an 18 year old son too. She demands that I shower once in a while. Sam has a mate also, Delilah, who is almost as helpful as mine. But today she tried to be useful, here she is....being about as useful as she gets...

Image

We got the rubrail finished on the starboard side today. Hopefully tomorrow we will finish the port side. Maybe I'll get it flipped this weekend 8O

I wrapped the rubrails around the transom, for strength, protection and looks....at least I think it looks good..

Image

Tom, I think they are arresting people who strike matches around here. We can't even water because of restrictions. Better today with a front and wind shift, but it just means someone else is suffering from it.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tim, Sam is the supervisor. He doesn't handle the menial tasks :D

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:37 pm
by ks8
Yep... the rubrails look good wrapped around! So... Delilah helps wipe up the epoxy drips, eh?

You're moving right along. :)

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, she is a walking mop.

We finished the rubrails this afternoon and I'm glad to have them behind me 8) I get bored fast with repition. We ended up about 6' short on strips and had to rip one more. If anyone's interested it takes 136 linear feet to get 3 layers, including the transom corners.

Will let this cure a couple of days, then round up a dozen farm boys to flip her over.

I forgot this question...
no portapotti???????????????
No, no neighbors within sight, nothing but woods and swamp :lol:

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:30 pm
by ddbiiz
Larry,
Your boat is looking good my friend. It's alot easier to flip than you think and lighter too! I had 3 plus myself and really only needed 2

Don

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:51 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
She's really taking shape. I hope that the front keeps the wind blowing all of the smoke out of your eyes. The wind pattern gave us two or three days of haze from the fires in GA and FL. My allergies still get upset just thinking about what I used to do fighting brush fires. Thank goodness I never had to tackle anything that big.
Progress is still happening here, but it takes spurts. My wife is having her right knee scoped Thursday and that will either give me more or less tine :?: :?: :!: :?
Keep Sam busy and he won't notice when you take a break.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Don & Robbie. She's ready to flip. We had a good crowd around on Sunday, but everyone drank too much beer watching the race, and I made an executive decision to wait until a better time. Maybe I should pick a weekday evening :doh:

Good luck to the wife Robbie. They've threatened me with one of those but I haven't caved yet.

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:20 am
by TomW
Larry, one more nasty step behind you. Its looking good. The news report from the Asheville TV said your little fire down that way was even sending its nasty smoke clear up here to our nice clean mountains. As if we don't have enough fires going already. Dry, dry, dry.

Keep the pictures coming and don't work Sir Sam to hard.

Tom

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:34 pm
by robbiro
Larry, Just a quick update, surgery went well and was done on an out-patient basis. We went in at 7 and were out by noon. Knee repaired and all ready to go home and rest a little bit. Thanks for the words of encouragement. She done good 8) I knew that I married above myself.

Robbie

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Excellent :!: Women are tougher than men, in my experience. I'm not scared of gators or snakes, but a Dentist can put the fear of the Almighty into me.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:01 pm
by TomW
Robbie, a word of encouragement to your wife through here, my Dad 80 had both knees replaced two years ago and all went well. Give my best to your wife, the worst and the best is the after surgery rehab. The more she does the better it is as I'm sure youv'e been told. Give the the trouper some hugs and get back to the boat when you can.

Tom

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:00 pm
by msujmccorm
Robbie,
Give the wife a word of encouragement. I had the left knee done 2 times and the right knee done once. Don't try to be tough and skip the pain meds, once you get behind you don't catch up. The 1st week is the worst.
Good luck and make sure she does the therapy.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:18 pm
by robbiro
Thanks to one and all. Betsy sends her regards and thanks. there was a slight meniscus tear and plica tissue that was gumming up the works. Larry, my apologies for hijacking this thread. If anyone wants to send more on this subject, go to the thread "FIRST LIGHT" and we will continue this thought.

Robbie

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's my thread and you can say anything you want 8)

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:52 pm
by robbiro
You are "THE MAN" :!: Thank You, Kind Sir.
Robbie

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:53 am
by Cracker Larry
It's raining 8O :D :!:

For the first time in months we may get a real rain. Looks like tropical storm Barry is going to dump a few inches on our forest fires. It will sure be nice not to have to breathe smoke for a while 8)

Just in time too. Most of the town of Pembroke, about 20 miles south of us, was evacuated yesterday AM. Not good.

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:13 am
by TomW
HIP, HIP, HOORAY, HIP, HIP, HOORAY, now blow hard and push him my way as he leaves you. Still only hit or miss pop ups around here which may or may not give you any rain 1/3" here yesterday, not enough to do any good, first since May 1st.

Tom

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:16 am
by Cracker Larry
6" of rain in the last 24 hours and still raining 8O The ground was so dry that we don't even have a puddle on the ground 8)

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:19 am
by Knottybuoyz
Cracker Larry wrote:6" of rain in the last 24 hours and still raining 8O The ground was so dry that we don't even have a puddle on the ground 8)
We had a micro-burst roll through here yesterday afternon that dumped about 6 in of rain in 5 mins. Winds I estimate at 100 kts. There's a lot of 100 yr old Maple trees that got yanked up by their roots. Ain't global warming somethin'? You guys need the rain don't you Larry? I think FLA does too with all the wild fires.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah we needed the rain. We were about to get burned out. :(

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:33 am
by TomW
Larry, so glad you got it. Did it finally put out the fires? I'm still waiting for you to blow some my way. Nothing yet, sunny and 80's.

Tom

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:33 am
by Dougster
That's good news to hear for you guys Larry. (Don't wanna think about 6" in 5minutes though 8O). I know about droughts here in Texas. They're depressing, watching the land die so to speak, and then wonderful to see it rain. We're on a well at my house and have some concerns for its long term survival, so just finished a costly project of having a rain water catchment system put in. Catching water off the house and storing in a 10,000 gal fiberlass tank. Big old thing. Just got it up and ready this week so I guess we'll get no rain for a while now :)

Figuring that's how it goes Dougster

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
We've got a well also, and was starting to get concerned about it. Also got a 10,000 water tank, but we usually call it a swimming pool :P

Too soon to tell about the fires, but I heard some were still burning. Had to help. They say we need 50 inches of rain to really end the drought 8O

It's moved out of here and heading up the coast. Sun is out. Back to boatbuilding........

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, time to catch up.

Built and installed a sturdy breast hook out of 2 layers of 3/4. It is flush with the sheer and may, or may not, get another layer of decking over it. I'm not sure yet about the deck arrangement. It will be different than the plans specify. This will give a stout surface to mount the deck hardware.

Image

We finished up the rubrails, planed them down nice and true, and level across the sheer line. Then gave it all a coat of epoxy....

Image

Every permanent part we can reach has been precoated...bow view...

Image

side view......

Image

and transom view.....

Image

So that's about it. Nope, also cut a 4" hole in the bottom near the transom, for the sonar transducer. I want this to be solid glass with no wood core. I cut a square of ply and covered it with plastic and screwed it over the hole from the inside, for a mold. I will pack it with chopped glass and epoxy from the outside.

Thanks to whoever reminded me about this :idea:

Image

We are 100% ready to flip. On my way out now to try and round up some help. Hopefully the next pictures will be inverted :P

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Forgot to say, I got all the pre-coating done before the rain, which was good because it got a little wet the last couple of days with rain blowing sideways. 8)

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:16 pm
by gk108
Glad to hear that you got some rain over your way. I was down in Fla being a soundman until 5 AM today. Got home and realized that I didn't put the tarp on my D15 very good before I left. I had a big red rain guage in my yard. 8O
Your boat is really taking shape now. Planing those rubrails level and running them around the corner of the transom gives it a cool look.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:26 pm
by TomW
Larry it is really looking good, good luck with the flip and the bottom coating. Man 50" is a lot of rain to make up.

Tom

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:52 pm
by plumbertuck
looks great cracker, those rubrails are nice, do you plan on any gunwales ?

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:42 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks.

I really haven't decided about the gunwales, probably so, or maybe partial, just not sure yet. I ordered enough plywood to build them if I decide to.

I know that if I do build the gunwales I want them flat and not angled up, which is why I planed the rails flat. I will build some mock ups out of cardboard and see what looks the best (to me). Decisions, decisions :doh:

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:59 pm
by retrosub
That's a really handsome boat and it seems to be coming along really quickly. Looking forward to seeing more!

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks, Retro.

Thanks to Jacques really, for designing such a handsome boat. I had nothing to do with it, just following the plans, mostly as best I can, and hoping to do it justice.:D

Won't be doing any building for the next couple of weeks. We've got some time off and heading down to the Banana Republics. Will be off to Aruba in few days, then Belize for a few. Maybe a side trip to Costa Rica. 8)

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:54 pm
by TomW
Have a good trip, when you leave and hope you have some good stories when you get back. Watch out for the water gringo. :lol:

Tom

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:42 pm
by plumbertuck
I wish I had done some flat gunwales with some flush mount rod holders in them, maybe some lighting to illuminate the deck slightly for night fishing

I have a 12 gal poly fuel tank under my casting deck with a deck fill on the starboard corner of the casting deck, I also wish for an 18 gal.
I have plenty of ideas for the next build.....

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Share some more :D Deck lighting good idea.

More fuel is always good. The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

We'll have at least 36 gallons, maybe more.

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:26 am
by WobblyLegs
plumbertuck wrote:I wish I had done some flat gunwales with some flush mount rod holders in them, maybe some lighting to illuminate the deck slightly for night fishing.
Is there any reason why you can't do that modification now?

The lighting idea sounds good, maybe LED strips under the gunwhales?

Tim.

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:14 am
by Lucky_Louis
Looking great Larry. Get her flipped yet?

36 gallons - wow! Plan on fillin' her once per season? Up here, that's 136 liters and at $1.25 per, that's over $200 a fill up 8O

You say your foredeck is already 2 layers of 3/4" ply and you're thinking of adding more? Mounting a howitzer :doh: :lol:

Have a great trip around the Caribbean. If you're in Belize, pop south of town to the marina. Stick you're head into Walker Marine and say hi to Andy for me. He could entertain you with a boat story or two... 8)

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:00 pm
by steve292
136 litres..........................£130 english pounds..............$250 US 8O

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:13 pm
by Old E.
That's depressing.... the dollar is sooooo weak right now. :cry:

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Fuel is up here, too. $3.00 US a gallon today, $108 to fill up a 36. Don't have to fill it up unless I need to though.

Flipping tonight, got some help lined up :D

The under layer of 3/4 on the fordeck only extends about half the length of the deck. It is really a backing block for the bow cleat and chocks. The bow cleat needs to be strong enough to lift the boat from. If I add anything over it will be a layer of 3/8 that will extend to be gunwales, or side decks.

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:54 am
by PastorBob
you know I am glad you mentioned lifting.... my grandfather-in-law has a place we fish from in the swamps around sapelo sound at pine harbor.... the only way to put in is lifts.... (that i know of close).

What would you do on your gf-16??? I have a small backing plate of 1/2 on the bow eye and through the clamping board on the transom.... do you think that should be fine????

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
The OD was flipped last night. No incidents and she sits good on the frame. Peeled off the duct tape today and sanded all the joints. Tomorrow I can build the outside fillets and start taping the seams.

Bob, a lot of the lifts that have chains also have straps. Try to get them to use straps if possible. If stuck with only one chain and hook on the front, I tie a loop of line to my bow cleat and lift it from there. My bow eye is too far under the boat to lift from it.

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Meant to add, it was 98 degrees today 8O Summer is here. Sam stayed in the air conditioning

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:23 pm
by gk108
Cracker Larry wrote:Bob, a lot of the lifts that have chains also have straps. Try to get them to use straps if possible. If stuck with only one chain and hook on the front, I tie a loop of line to my bow cleat and lift it from there. My bow eye is too far under the boat to lift from it.
That's sort of what I had in mind when I did that part of my D15. Strong enough to either lift the boat or tow it with. I hate to think about needing to get towed, but...

That heat ran me off of the gulf and back to the comfort of A/C today. 8O

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:37 pm
by PastorBob
Thanks that is helpful... I'm from Kansas not used to lifts... Larry when are you leaving We are headed to Claxton tomorrow evening for the week..

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Bob, email me direct, don't like to post travel plans to the world 8)

lteuton at aol dot com

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Back from the islands. We enjoyed 10 days of great sailing, fishing, diving and snorkeling, not to mention eating, drinking, partying and gambling. The only pirates we encountered were at the casinos in Aruba 8O.

Bad news, got home and found Capt. Sam sick :cry: . Took him to the vet and he had a large tumor in his side. They did surgery yesterday evening and say he'll be OK, it isn't cancer, but he won't be doing any boat building for a few weeks. He is one sad looking animal right now, half shaved with a bunch of stitches and tubes :cry:

Running low on resin, just ordered more. I've used 4 gallons to this point. Don't know if that's good or bad. Will soon be back to building, while taking care of Sam.

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:52 pm
by timoub007
Sorry to hear about Sam. Our prayers are that he gets back to the boat soon. My Mocha is limping around with all 4 of her pads tore up right now. Not as serious as Sam, but sad to watch none the less.

Glad to hear you guys had a good trip. Hope the pirates didn't pilage your wallet too much. I guess they didn't get your boat supply money since you just ordered some more.

I'm back at my project too; received my supplies yesterday. About to go flip my GF-16T back over.

Take care of Sam and get back on the boat.

Tim

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:42 pm
by PastorBob
Larry... Glad you had a good trip, sorry I missed you... Send Captain my regards... We have had canine assistant problems here also our beagle Molly was not satisfied with her newly acquired 17 acer wooded yard (our yard in Detroit was 60'x120') and decided to chase trucks on the hwy.... We now have a new Brittney pup... but she's not much help.... Glad you still have the Capt'n...

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:26 pm
by TomW
Welcome back and glad you had a good time and didn't lose your boat money to the one armed bandits. :D Sorry to hear about Sam it is hard when one we care about so much is sick, sending him some love and my prayers from another pet lover.

Tom

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:55 pm
by msujmccorm
Get well soon Sam. Larry needs a supervisor!

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:14 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Best wishes to Capt. Sam and a SPEEDY Recovery is also added to that. He may be a bit cooler for a time, but nothing is as gorgeous as a Golden with a full, silky coat. Feed him well and pamper him, then maybe he will let you take another vacation in about '09, if you are good and finish all of these boats he is wanting you to build.

We will keep Ya'll in our thoughts and prayers,

Robbie

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:40 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Good to hear from you Larry, add my best wishes to Sam's speedy recovery too. Did you make it to Belize?

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:33 am
by Cracker Larry
Sam says thanks to all concerned. He appreciates the prayers and he's feeling better today. The hard part will be to keep him still for 2 weeks, so he won't tear his stitches.

Bob, sorry about your beagle. We lost a black lab the same way when we moved from town to the country. They go nuts with all the space I think.

And Tim, what happened to the pads? Oysters? That's always a problem here.

Tom, no one armed bandits for us. Black Jack and craps. We won enough the first 2 nights to build 2 OD18s, then spent 3 more nights giving it back to them. No pain, no gain

Lucky, yes we spent 5 days in Belize. I have a place in San Pedro town on Ambergris Cay. What town was I supposed to go south of to find your friend?

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:40 am
by timoub007
Larry, sad to say that Mocha is too spoiled. She actually did it while my friends were playing tennis and she was chasing the balls. She is an inside dog used to carpet and all that running on the concrete really tore her up. She is still slightly limping, but her spirits are back up. She keeps bringing me toys to play with her and doesn't understand why I won't. Another day or two and she'll be as good as new. Thanks for thinking about her.

Tim

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:49 am
by Lucky_Louis
My buddy is in Belize City. Lives north of town, works south of town. He's the in-country manager for Walker Marine. Quite the character, if it's salty, he's probably done it. Charter boat skipper, ferry deck hand, coast guard officer, harbour master, airport firefighter, etc. We worked and fished together for 10 years in the Queen Charlotte Islands. PM me next time you head down and I'll set up a meet for you :)

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:30 am
by Cracker Larry
I'll do that! I thought you were probably referring to Belize City. I've never spent any time there, other than to change planes. Always wanting to meet another salty character though. Can't have too many friends 8)

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, back to boatbuilding :D Sam is recovering well and staying as still as we can keep him, in the airconditioning. My wife was home this weekend and I was able to get a little work done outside.

It's hot, real hot, have to work fast with small batches of epoxy...

Image

I got up at 0600 and started work by 0630 both days this weekend. I managed to get all the outside seams taped to their final scantlings. All done wet on wet.

Started out yesterday early, needed to do some sanding before starting the tape. My faithful Porter Cable ran exactly 1 minute before it died :cry: I worked on it for an hour with no joy, so I dug out my old, 35 year old, Craftsman belt sander. It worked flawlessly, but heavy and hard to control. Made a few gouges. Need a new sander :!:

Then I cleaned it all up, wiped it down and got to taping.

The transom called for 2 overlapping layers all around, but I used 3 8)

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and the bow called for 2 overlapping layers, but I used 4. Sorry, couldn't help myself :roll:

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And the sides called for 2 overlapping layers on each seam. I followed instructions for a change 8)

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As you can see above, I also poured the solid glass plug for the transducer. It is about 6 parts milled fibers, 1 part wood flour, with 2 layers of biax top and bottom.

Doesn't seem like much, but I'm drained. Took a lot of beer to get this done :help:

Maybe this week I'll get the bottom covered 8) Maybe not 8)

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:54 pm
by timoub007
Looks great Larry, and it sounds like Sam is living the good life. :D

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:56 pm
by tech_support
clean work, thats a lot of tape 8)

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, it's a lot of tape :!: 200 feet, give or take. I should have ordered more when I ordered supplies last week. Great service again, BTW. I ordered on Saturday night, it was delivered on Wednesday :D

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:29 pm
by msujmccorm
Great looking work Larry. Man that heat takes it out of ya.

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:46 pm
by Dougster
That is so clean looking, my God, I could never do it. And without Sam onboard, well, it's heroic. You'll get the bottom glassed next weekend. The plug for the sonar gets me to thinking. I gotta figure that out on the Nina. I like a sonar, esp. in the TX bays, things change real fast and she's no flats boat. I gotta remember this thread and to check how you did it.

Thinkin' lotta tape is a good thing Dougster

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:57 pm
by ks8
Clean... looks great! Shaping up quickly, summer and all. I guess you go inside now and then for the next step from Sam... :)

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:21 pm
by dewers
Can you go into how you made the plug in a little more detail.

Thanks

Dave

Cracker Larry wrote:


As you can see above, I also poured the solid glass plug for the transducer. It is about 6 parts milled fibers, 1 part wood flour, with 2 layers of biax top and bottom.

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:07 am
by TomW
Looking great Larry, guess it won't fall apart on you. I guess summer is here.

Tom

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:50 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Nice work, Larry. Those seams always take more time than you would ever think! The heat is definitely on us now. We have been 80 every morning and 95 by 11:00. Doesn't cool off much in the evening so you have to mix and pour quickly! I have even considered keeping my mixing cup in another bowl of cold/ice water while mixing, especially with thickener.

The beer seems to help significantly, though.

Good luck with the bottom.

Huck

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:47 am
by WobblyLegs
Very nice looking boat.

What's your reason for doing more than the planned amount of tape on the transom? Big motor?

Tim.

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks to everyone for their kind comments. This forum is a great morale booster :D
Can you go into how you made the plug in a little more detail.
Sure Dave. Before I flipped the hull I drilled the hole. It's about 3.5 inches. After it was drilled I covered a small scrap of plywood with plastic and screwed it down over the hole, for a mold.

After flipping, I gave the raw edges of the hole a couple of coats of resin to seal it good, and put a little resin in the bottom. Then I cut 2 circles of 12oz. biax and put it in the bottom, tight to the plastic. Then I mixed up some resin with a lot of milled glass fibers and a little wood flour. Poured this into the hole until flush, made sure there were no air bubbles, then put 2 more layers of cloth on the bottom. Then I covered the filled hole with a piece of plastic, put a board over the plastic and a weight on the board. This forced it flat and insured a good bond. Let it set overnight and removed the weight and plastic. It left what you see now. I haven't sanded it yet, but it is perfectly flush and smooth.

What's your reason for doing more than the planned amount of tape on the transom? Big motor?
Yes, I will use a larger motor than specified so I want it plenty strong, more for trailer stress than anything. I do tend to overbuild things, it's just my nature :roll:

Huck, I fired up the AC in the shop and set it on 65. I keep the epoxy right in front of the vent. This seems to help a lot.

Dougster, you can do it too. Just a matter of practice. This is my 3rd one and it's a lot easier and prettier than the first one :wink:

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:04 pm
by FlaFF
Daniel Huckleberry wrote:Nice work, Larry. Those seams always take more time than you would ever think! The heat is definitely on us now. We have been 80 every morning and 95 by 11:00. Doesn't cool off much in the evening so you have to mix and pour quickly! I have even considered keeping my mixing cup in another bowl of cold/ice water while mixing, especially with thickener.

The beer seems to help significantly, though.

Good luck with the bottom.

Huck
I have been keeping my jug of hardener in a small cooler filled with ice water. Buys me a good bit more time in the 90*+ heat.
Just an idea.


Josh

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:50 pm
by dewers
Thanks much, I am planning a airmar p90 in hull transducer in my OP21. your description will make it much easier to do now.

Dave
Can you go into how you made the plug in a little more detail.
Sure Dave. Before I flipped the hull I drilled the hole. It's about 3.5 inches. After it was drilled I covered a small scrap of plywood with plastic and screwed it down over the hole, for a mold.

After flipping, I gave the raw edges of the hole a couple of coats of resin to seal it good, and put a little resin in the bottom. Then I cut 2 circles of 12oz. biax and put it in the bottom, tight to the plastic. Then I mixed up some resin with a lot of milled glass fibers and a little wood flour. Poured this into the hole until flush, made sure there were no air bubbles, then put 2 more layers of cloth on the bottom. Then I covered the filled hole with a piece of plastic, put a board over the plastic and a weight on the board. This forced it flat and insured a good bond. Let it set overnight and removed the weight and plastic. It left what you see now. I haven't sanded it yet, but it is perfectly flush and smooth.

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
I found a little time yesterday to make some progress. First I went to the HD and bought a new sander. This time I'm trying a Rigid. So far OK.

Sanded down the rough edges of the previous taped seams, in preparation of final coverings, it only took a couple of beers...

Image

Then I cut a piece of cloth to be the first layer of the bottom. It only calls for 1, but I'm going to use 2. I already have a couple of layers at the chine of course. This creates sort of a dish in the hull bottom with the bulk of the tape on the edges. So this first layer I will fit between the taped seams, to bring the bottom up to level with the chines and transom edge...

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Working with small batches, from stern to bow, I wet it all out. I use a wallpaper knife as a spreader..

Image

The next layer will be the final. It will extend all the way to the topsides style line. Later :D

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:26 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Nice work, Larry. Sound reasoning on the two layers. Kinda wish I had doubled up my bottom as I am sure over the years it will get a good bit of abuse, especially being a shallow draft boat, it will just be too tempting to "sneak in the skinny."

Keep building, the beer will come

Huck

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:48 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Phenomenal work on the boat. I like the idea of the double layer on the bottom and that was kinda what I had planned to do, but your idea was better thought out. More time in the boat building trade helps with that. I do have a question about the glass plug in the bottom for the transducer: will the wood flour cause any false readings, or is it just shooting the beam through solid wood that does that? I need to work that out before I finish the seats in mine. Thanks for your time and patience with those of us who admire your skill and talent 8O

Keep on Buildin;

Robbie

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Huck, Robbie, we have a lot of oyster banks here. 2 layers of 12oz. biax has held up great on my GF for a couple of years now, it is really tough :!:

But I never liked the way the chine and transom edges are thicker than the bottom itself. It dishes it out, to me, like a frisbee bottom. So this is what I came up with. Simple, but it took 3 boats to figure it out, so how smart am I :doh:

I can't see the wood flour doing any harm, it's completely saturated so it's not really wood anymore. I did give it some consideration and that's why I only used a little, mostly glass fiber, but I really think it would work if it was solid epoxy/wood flour.

Years ago I had a 1966 31' Chris Craft I used as a charter fishing boat. The Fishin Magician. Had a hull 2 inches thick with glass over wood. I had installed a Furuno color fishfinder and it came with a plastic through hull transducer. Expensive thing, a few thousand $ in the 1980s. The first week of using it was awesome. A big step up from my old Sitex paper recorder. But I hit a small, almost floating plank in the water and it sheared the transducer off clean with the hull. Fishfinder quit working. Hmmm. Captain, why's all this water in the boat 8O :?: HMMMM.....good thing we had a plug to fit that hole, and a big pump.

So then I cuss plastic and japs, and I buy a really expensive solid bronze through hull xducer and install that. Worked great. 2 weeks later I hit another almost floating plank. Fishfinder quits working. Hmmm....Captain, why's all this water in the boat 8O :?: HMMM...Still had the plug and pumps anyway.

I was done with through hull xducers, never put in another one. I bought the cheapest plastic transom mount they had and I smeared some grease on it and stuck it to the inside of the hull, at the dock, and got a good bottom reading. Moved it around a little and found where it worked the best. Then I degreased everything, smeared it with epoxy ( 5 minute I think) and stuck it to the inside hull bottom. It was still working 5 years later when I sold the boat.

Since then I have always used in-hull mounting on larger boats and never had much trouble. They are more sensitive with solid glass for sure, but I think most units will work with a wood core, depending on power of the unit and water depth. If you want to test it, just smear the transducer face with vasoline and press it to the hull and see how it works.

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
This memory leads me to continue this story. This is also the time I invented side scanning sonar (like Al Gore invented the internet). My wife is tired of my stories, I've got to tell them to someone. Sorry.

When I found my first plastic transducer was gone, I had to have another one, tomorrow. Had charters lined up and had to catch fish. So I called the VHF marine operator (this was before cell phones) and called my wife, and sent her to Maricom Electronics to get me another transducer so I'll have it when I get to the dock. She meets me at dark while we're scrubbing the boat, with the new one, just like the one that broke. I didn't feel like scuba diving and didn't want to install another plastic one anyway. My eyes hit on my mop handle :idea: I think duct tape :idea: Yeah. So I tape the stem of the transducer to the mop handle and string the cable up to the bridge. Good to fish. I just have to get my mate to hold the mop handle when I need to see the bottom.

We start the next morning at a small wreck not publicly known and hard to find. This was before GPS, old LORAN, so you could only get close by LORAN, then run a search grid until the sonar picked it up. I stopped on the numbers that day and had the mate lower the stick. Not real professional I must admit :oops: Nothing but sand. I start motoring my grid and then it struck me. Point the stick sideways :idea: My mate pointed the transducer out flat and scanned in a circle. The wreck instantly came into view 800 feet to port, and we just pointed towards it. Alright!

We fished 3 or 4 more little wrecks that day and found each of them by scanning with the mop stick.

I kept that xducer on that stick the entire time I owned that boat. We ran the cable to the bridge permanently and kept the side scanner in a cockpit locker. If I wanted to hunt a wreck, I'd just switch cables. I've since used the same technique in other boats. Neat trick I think.

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:29 pm
by dewers
Great Idea, now I am off to buy a extra transducer
Cracker Larry wrote:This memory leads me to continue this story. This is also the time I invented side scanning sonar (like Al Gore invented the internet). My wife is tired of my stories, I've got to tell them to someone. Sorry.

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:59 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Once again, thanks for your wealth of knowledge and your old sea stories. I have enjoyed and learned from both. Hope to mix a little epoxy tomorrow and see if I can get the mid seat down. I got the rack that the live well will rest on glued down earlier this week and need to shoot some photos of it before I enclose the seat area. I hope to get about 10 or 12 more photos on my gallery this weekend, but please don't hold your breath. It just depends on the time factor.

Y'all Keep On Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Outside glassing is finished. Ready to fair. Whew :help: Heat index is 110F 8O

First sanded and washed everything.

Image

Fitted cloth....
Image

Did this on both sides.

Wet it all out...did this on both sides...
Image

Done 8) Thirsty work :D

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:34 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Looking SWEET Larry, good job. I imagine the resin ran pretty thin (at least the heat is good for something).

Finally warmed up here too, 30°C, 33°C on the humidex (91.4°F), now if only the wind would die down...

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:50 pm
by TomW
Beautiful job Larry. Looks like you won't have much trouble fairing that job out. Been high 80's lo 90's in the mountains here also, to hot with the humidity for me.

Tom

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:15 am
by Spokaloo
heat INDEX?

INDEX?!?

Area Forecast for:Spokane Area

Tonight: Mostly clear. Lows in the upper 50s to lower 60s. Northeast wind around 10 mph.

Wednesday: Sunny. Highs 98 to 100. Northeast wind 10 to 15 mph.

Wednesday Night: Mostly clear. Lows in the upper 50s to mid 60s. Light wind in the evening...becoming northeast up to 10 mph overnight.

Thursday: Sunny. Highs 100 to 103. Northeast wind around 10 mph.

Thursday Night: Partly cloudy. Lows in the lower to mid 60s. East wind 5 to 10 mph in the evening...becoming light overnight.

Friday And Friday Night: Partly cloudy. Highs 103 to 105. Lows in the lower to mid 60s.

Saturday And Saturday Night: Partly cloudy. A 20 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms. Highs 101 to 105. Lows in the upper 50s to lower 60s.

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I like how well that turned out, the work leading up to your glassing shows you put a ton of forethought into it. Fairing will be cake.

E

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:44 am
by WobblyLegs
Sweet - your pictures show the shape of the hull very nicely - makes me tempted to build another one when my present one's done (though I don't think the First Mate will allow it...).

Tim.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:49 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
She looks good, Larry. Nice clean work that will pay off later.

Huck

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all :D

Captain Sam went to the Doctor today and got all his stitches out, and he is released for light boat building duty. I'll be glad to have my helper back 8) Might be able to get something done.

This weekends project is the skeg. And maybe spray rails.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Nice clean work that will pay off later.
Huck, I learned that the hard way on the first 2 boats :x Sloppy work up front requires much harder work in the end. It's a lot easier to wipe up and clean up as you go. There is certainly a learning curve. This sticky stuff wipes off a LOT more friendly than it sands off.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:08 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:This sticky stuff wipes off a LOT more friendly than it sands off.
Yip!

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wobbly, I don't come close to you for clean work, your's is amazing. 8O

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:19 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Cracker Larry wrote:
Nice clean work that will pay off later.
Huck, I learned that the hard way on the first 2 boats :x Sloppy work up front requires much harder work in the end. It's a lot easier to wipe up and clean up as you go. There is certainly a learning curve. This sticky stuff wipes off a LOT more friendly than it sands off.
Absolutely right. I think I might be really ready for the next build! Don't tell the wife, though. I'll probably have to build her a house first to talk her into it!

Glad Sam is recovering well

Huck

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam says thank you much, Huck. He's really doing good.

Houseboat for the wife :?:

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:04 pm
by TomW
Larry so glad Sam is doing so much better, I know you must have missed him something awful out there with you.

One of the first things my Dad taught me when I started helping him gluing was WIPE IT UP! WIPE IT UP!. He had a tendency to shout. I have always carried a damp rag since those days!

Tom

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom. My wife is out right now giving him a much needed bath. Couldn't get the stitches wet. He's working on a 4 week stink 8O

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
Playing with colors on Photoshop. What do yall think of Black Jack? That's how I financed this one 8)

Image

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:03 pm
by timoub007
LOL, at least you were able to take money from the casino and not help pay the rent.

I know you might be limited on colors in Photoshop, but that red is a little bright for me. Is that how bright you want it or were you going for more of a darker shade? Red will typically fade over time, unless this boat is going to sit under the carport/boat building stall. Then only one side might fade if it gets evening sun. Something to think about.

Oh, and put another color motor on the transom. LOL

The hull is looking great, and we're glad to hear Sam is out and about.

Tim

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tim, the hull color is subject to change, but the motor color is etched in stone :D Big and black.

I know that red is probably the hardest color to work with, but it sure looks nice. Just tossing around some ideas. I'm sure you are right about the fading. And yes, it's a Photoshop red that may not be ideal, just playing around. May even end up with camo green again. Nah, not this one, I think.

Sam says thanks , too :!:

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:19 pm
by timoub007
LOL, I know you like your anchors. :D
You going to find a new, old stock motor or are you going used or OPTI or what with this one? What HP are you thinking?

If/when I build another, bigger bateau I will likely go with a 4 stroke. For shallow fishing like my GF-16T and flats boat you can't beat a 2 stroke. But for a bay boat or center console I really am becoming a believer in the 4 strokes. Specifically I'm most impressed with the Suzukis.

I've got the FS17 plans but doubt that I'll build it. I really want to build a PH22 eventually. All plans on hold for a few years now though, found out recently that we are having twins at the end of the year. There goes hunting season. :roll:

The Merc would look good with that color scheme though.

Tim

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:21 pm
by Dougster
Red may be tough, but it sure is a true color. Looks like a heart, beats like a drum. I'm cheered by Sam's recovery. Bet he's got a heart like a drum too. Red's ok. Best wishes to you and yours.

Somehow he identifies with old Sam Dougster

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dougster, thinkin you got a strong heart, too. Thanks. I hope to meet you one day. We'd get on well.

Tim 8O 8O Twins 8O
found out recently that we are having twins at the end of the year. There goes hunting season.
But look at the little sanders you can train :lol: Whew, twins. Hope you are young.

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:52 pm
by timoub007
LOL yeah. Do they make respirators for toddlers?

I turned 30 while we were on our trip to Austraila and New Zealand back in May. These are our first, and likely only kids. Didn't expect a twofer. LOL

Tim

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:16 pm
by gk108
I might be a little biased, but I think it's a very intelligent and thoughtful color scheme. :D
I know one thing that would have made my red paint job a lot easier. More primer. I really should have gone over the hull with one last coat to get an even white base. The last of the high spots were a little thin and the dark spots showed through the red for more coats than I anticipated.

For a little better color rendition in photoshop, you could use the manufacturers color samples from their website. The color samples are image files that you can save and open with photoshop, then use the eyedropper tool to grab some of that color to paint the boat image with. That really helped me decide how far away from plain white I wanted to go with the inside of my boat.
Image
I made this image with that method for side by side comparison.

CONGRATS TIM!!!! :D

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:29 am
by TomW
Larry, I can see you with a nice 75 HP Optimax or 4Stroke on the back of that thing flying toward the shrimp grounds. The colors are great. Everybody does dark red. The lighter one will probably hold up better also. Black Jack sounds like an appropriate name. I'll tell you an old Navy story if we ever meet about my gambling in Monte Carlo.

Tim congrats, hope all goes well!

Tom

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:59 am
by tech_support
I like the red also. We painted a surf boar recently with "fox orange" which is mostly red to me and I came away really liking the color.

I am also partial to red and black :D

Way to Go Tim :!:

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:20 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the Photoshop tip, GK. I'll try that.

No boos from the crowd, so unless there is a revelation, red and black she will be.

Thanks all.

Is Vman reading this? I need some graphics made.

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam is back on the job, part time, and we decided to get the skeg lamination done today so we can install it tomorrow.

We started by ripping a good clear piece of yellow pine into 2 pieces, 3/4 X 2 X 6 feet, and one piece of 1/4 ply 2" X 6'. We will sandwich the ply between the solid stock. This will make for a strong and stable piece.

Image

Glad to have Sam's help again, and he's glad to be back at it.

Then we precoated the parts with epoxy, of course, then coated with thickened epoxy....

Image

Then we aligned the parts and lightly clamped them together...

Image

After this, Sam was worn out and ready to go back to sleep. He's still got to take it easy for awhile. At least we could do all this in the shop with the air conditioner running....he asks that yall don't laugh at his hair cut :wink:

Image

We'll let this cure overnight, then shape it and install it tomorrow.

One step at a time :D

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:34 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:One step at a time :D
I'm finding that's the only way to build a boat. Even when I want to throw toys, like earlier this week, a bit of settling down and getting one more piece of wood glued gets you one step closer to having a boat.

Mind you, it all looks like it's going really smoothly for you! I really like that boat, and am tempted to build one myself in my "future life".

Looks like Sam's got a cool patch on his back, and is wondering why you don't shave the rest of him...

Tim.

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:36 pm
by Knottybuoyz
Welcome back Sam!

Keep an eye on that boatbuilder guy and make sure he's doin' it all the right way on your boat!

Signed..... Shadow the Wonder Cat!

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:37 pm
by jeremy
Aw, poor guy. Give him a big scratch behind the ear from me.

Skeg looks good. Good idea about laminating it around the ply.

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:58 pm
by TomW
Good skeg Larry should last a while. cover with FG and your graphite paint and it should last a while.

Poor Sam his eyes look like what are you going to do to me now. A bath yesterday and then making him work. Give him a beer and relax for a while.

Tom

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah Tom, I'll glass it in with fillets and a couple of layers of tape, then run a piece of stainless steel flatbar down the entire length. That will be the oyster smasher :D Did I mention I tend to overbuild :?: It might be heavy, but it WILL be strong.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK. Skeg is finished, except for a little sanding and the flatbar shoe she's going to get.

After the lamination had set up overnight we split the piece diagonally on the bandsaw. This resulted in having 2 skeg blanks, so if this one doesn't hold up, I've got a spare.

I clamped one of the blanks down with some bench dogs and shaped the skeg using only a block plane. I've got a half dozen power tools I could do this with, but nothing more pleasant to work with. I always feel like a real boatbuilder when I'm making wood shavings with a plane 8)

Image

Then we glued it down to the boat. I popped a chalk line down the center so alignment was easy with the center laminate of the skeg. I also positioned it a few inches forward of the transom so hopefully the water flow into the prop won't be disrupted :?: Maybe. We didn't use any weights, I didn't want to squeeze out any glue, so just it's own weight held it down for the glue to dry.

Image

After that set up overnight, I built 1/2 radius fillets around it, using a 1" dowel as a fillet tool.

Image

As soon as the fillets stiffened a little I gave it all a coat of resin and working wet on wet, layed down 3 overlapping layer of 6", 12oz., biax tape. That should hold her on there. I really don't want a sacrificial skeg, I want a permanent one :wink:

Image

After this dries, I'll give it a little sanding and install a piece of flatbar down the length of it for a shoe.

Time for a dip in the pool :!:

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Forgot to mention, I sanded the entire boat, almost smooth as a babies butt, All ready for fairing compound. It's not going to need much :D

Next task I think will be spray rails.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:45 pm
by Knottybuoyz
I betcha the round bottom of that "Sasparilla" bottle will make a nice fillet too eh Larry? *lol*

Nice work!

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:58 pm
by TomW
That sucker should last Larry, especially with the metal plate. Maybe you had better warn the oysters your coming. :lol:

You did a great job and the boat looks great :!:

Tom

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:03 pm
by mecreature
Man that boat looks nice.. and you are working very fast too.

I alway think of a skeg just helping you track at higher speeds...

After reading your skeg thread.. it is obvious it is of more use at low speeds and probably help in tight spaces...

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:49 pm
by Lower
Your doing an excellent job on this build. I'm a newbie to all this and I'm really enjoying watching your progress. Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the comments. I'm still learning as I go, and I still have some questions left :D

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Stopped my a local marine metals dealer on the waterfront today and got a piece of aluminum flatbar, grade 5086, which he recommended. It is 1/4" X 1" X 10'. Should be perfect for a shoe.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:21 pm
by timoub007
Backed off from the stainless huh? I'm guessing that the price scared you towards some more brown whiskey. :D

What did the aluminum set you back if you don't mind sharing?

Go catch some shrimps. 8)

Tim

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
No Tim, I'm not scared of spending money :lol: Ask my wife.

Actually the price was about the same @$3.00 a foot.

I just know that the aluminum will be much easier to cut, taper, bend, drill and countersink than the stainless is, with my available tools, and the aluminum will be plenty hard enough to protect the skeg.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:50 pm
by timoub007
$3.00/foot wouldn't have been too bad. If I could have found some for about that I might have capped my runners with it. I got numbers around and upwards of $10/foot if I recall.

I'm just going with the glass and graphite now. We'll try another duck season on the rollers and see how good graphite really is. :P

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wow, $10.00 seems high :!: This place really wants to sell in a minimum length of 20' sticks. Most metal shops do. I talked them into selling a piece that was partially bent, and paid $33 for 10 good feet. Only need about 6 1/2'.

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, a couple of evenings work and we finished the skeg :D

First we sanded the glass tape around it to remove the rough edges. Then gave it all another coat of resin.

I then cut the flatbar to length, flailing at it with a hacksaw for a few minutes and didn't make a good scratch, broke out the Milwaukee Sawzall and made short work of it.

Then measured, centerpunched, drilled and countersunk for mounting screws. Did the drilling and countersinking on the drill press.

Bent shoe to shape to fit skeg, using a vice, piece of pipe and a hammer.

Milled taper on front and rounded edges with bench sander. Could have used a belt sander clamped upside down in a vise. This is some hard aluminum 8O Doesn't work easily.

Marked holes on skeg, drilled oversize, filled with thickened epoxy, let cure overnight, redrilled to proper size.

Edited, I forgot to add an important step. My wife accuses me of being a badword perfectionist :help: I prefer to think of it as being thorough. The bottom of the aluminum shoe, where it gets bonded to the skeg, it has to be scratched, etched, degreased and cleaned. I scratched it up on the bench sander real good with 60 grit. Then scrubbed it with acetone to get rid of grease. Then washed it with soap and water. After that, I had some old battery acid and used that to chemically etch the metal. Then washed with soda water to neutralize the acid. Then one more step, wiped with alchohol. Didn't touch it after that, resin and glue. Told ya I was thorough :wink:

Mixed up more thickened epoxy and coated shoe bottom with it. Installed on skeg with 1/4 -20 stainless machine screws, threads dipped in thickened epoxy. Use the squeezed out glue to make a small fillet around shoe, using a bare finger :lol: Wiped off the drips...done...

Image

Glad yall talked me into this. I'm sure it will be a benefit :D

Image[/url]

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:11 pm
by Bean
Now that is a piece of work there!

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:24 pm
by gk108
Those strange tides around Savannah today are caused by millions of oysters digging in a little deeper. :D

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:53 pm
by Dougster
Beautiful piece of work. Makes me want some metal on my skeg. I been worryin' about it. I only used one piece of tape on each side, and figure it maybe needs two or three, it's so tall (8.5"). More tape and metal shoe. Don't know about all that prep though, Jeez. Thing'll sure out live me!

Feeling kind of humbled Dougster

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:56 am
by o-show
Old battery acid lying around? chemically etching? soda water? you crack me up, I'm going to start refering to you as "macgyver larry"
We should start a section on the forum titled "hall of fame" or "great ideas/concepts for modifying boats" things like this skeg should be filed away on that section for others to copy.
When i start coming up with ideas to modify my build I'm going to send you e-mails to see if you have any better ones. Come to think about it, what do you think about a bait tank and two tuna tubes in the center of the transom for my lb 26? nothing big, perhapse 15 gallons for the tank, barrel shaped, with a raw water intake pump and a re-circulator selector for keeping the bait alive while at speed..... anyway the skeg looks awesome, excellent work. I'm envious of your talent as you can tell.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:16 am
by Cracker Larry
Dougster, "all that prep" only took about 20 minutes. I intend for it to outlive you and me and my grandkids :D That's how boats should be built, with permanence. I'd rather spend 20 minutes doing that, than watching TV.


o-show, :D The aluminum cleaning process for bonding with fiberglass is explained in the West System book, not original on my belhalf. I just read a lot.

Battery acid is not the acid type they specify, but it's the type I have, and I guarantee it is etched 8) When you buy a small battery for a mower or motorcycle, they now come dry, with a plastic jug of acid on the side. Soda water is just some baking soda mixed with water.

I'd be glad to help with the bait tank. Sounds perfectly feasable. I will be building something similar. Got to have live bait :!:

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:37 pm
by ks8
nice!

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:26 pm
by TomW
Yo, Larry aluminum can be very hard with 5086 as a marine grade one of the hardest as you found out. As I said in your other forum WOW beautiful work. That will last you forever, hopefully.

One thing like your aluminum engine which is out of the 5086 family it will corrode, if you don't cover it well and keep it covered. I might put a small zinc in front of it to protect it.

Tom

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
That is a great point about the zinc, Tom :!: Thanks. I hadn't thought of that, but I should have. It needs one. Certainly so if it were to stay in the water very long. Maybe tuck a zinc behind the skeg. I'll have to search around and find one the appropriate shape. Excellent point 8)

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:06 pm
by Vman777
Larry, of course you probably already know this. If you use too small of a piece of zinc it will corrode to fast, and if it is too big the zinc won't draw enough of the ions from the alum, then the alum corrodes faster then the zinc. Of course it is alittle more complex then just that. I know there is a formula to figure it out.

Propbably just as easy to experiment and see what happens.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah David, buy what fits nice and replace it as necessary :D

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:54 pm
by Knottybuoyz
I might be just a lil' bit too tired but correct me if I'm wrong. If the underwater ally isn't bonded to the boats electrical system in any way it won't need a zinc. Now, your o/b is connected to the battery and generates electricity to run so it needs zinc to protect against electrolysis. I know it's an ongoing debate amonst a lot of boat builders as to whether it's really required to bond all through hulls if they're electrically isolated. If it's totally isolated from any path for current to flow a zinc will actually work against you by putting two dissimilar metals in contact with each other and an electrolyte (water). If it's a day use boat that spends most of its time out of the water it shouldn't be an issue. We had a 14' ally boat in the water at our cottage every summer for 15 yrs and it still looked as good as new all without zincs. It was rowed and never had a battery or motor on it.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:05 pm
by Vman777
Knottybuoyz - now that you mention that, that is true now that I think about it. Unless the OB being in water, and water being the path between both metals. Like you said ongoing debate.

I doubt if much will happen to the shoe on the skeg.

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:51 am
by TomW
Basic physics lesson as I remember it from long ago years. The flow of a fluid over a metal creates friction thus a current, or as Edison used it a flow of current through a metal creates heat thus light. If I'm wrong sorry!

There is always a current created when a metal flows through water, more so through salt water. If you have ever seen a protected and unprotected peice of aluminum in an ocean environment, you would know what I mean.

It's this constant flow past the motor that causes most damage and you'll see it in streaks on the paint, not the electrical system, which is grounded to the water.

Larry I'd put the anode on the forward edge so as it wore away it would protect the rest of the skeg. It won't take a very big one as you don't have a large peice of metal. Check the ones on you smaller engines 15-25 they should be more than enough.

Tom

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:06 am
by gk108
Using SS screws to hold the shoe makes two different metals in contact. Gotta have an anode for that. I think this is the one TomW is thinking about. http://www.boatzincs.com/OMC327606.html

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:00 pm
by colonialc19
Have you ever seen an aluminum reel somebody tried wireline on for trolling? It will definately scew it up, you'd be lucky to use it again. Dont know if the same thing will happen here, but looks like your going to take precautions. Great looking boat Macgiver Larry, hope mine turns out like yours.
Daniel

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Daniel. I'm sure it will.

It will be OK. After all, the outboard has aluminum and stainless also. And a zinc :D

There are actually 2 types of corrosion that happens between metals on boats, galvanic and electrolytic. Both can be solved by bonding and sacrificial anodes (zincs).

Tom, why do you recommend the zinc on the front of the skeg? I have 2 reasons against it, unless there is something I don't know and should :doh: Very possible for sure :P

My reasons for tucking it behind the skeg: I have a very solid skeg because I tend to run into rocks and oysters on a regular basis. It probably wouldn't last a week on the forward end of the skeg. I'd hit something with it and bust it off. And 2, it would not be very hydrodynamic, being directly in the water flow. Not as draggy in the eddy behind the skeg.

Thoughts :?:

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:16 pm
by TomW
Larry just a thought that attaching to the aluminum at the front would allow the zinc particles as they dissolve to wash along the aluminum piece. I guess as long as it is attached somewhere it would not matter, but it does have to be attached.

Tom

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:33 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Tempest in a tea pot I say! Larry, the skeg looks great, I wouldn't change a thing. You're not mooring in a public marina with gobs of stray current, your boat will dry almost daily. If you get some chalking on the aluminum strip in a couple of years and if it bugs you, sure, go ahead and replace it. In the meantime, you could start 'cleaning' your brushes and rollers on it. Everytime you're done an epoxy session, just smear a little leftover goo on the rub strip before you clean or throw out that roller or brush. By the time you splash, it'll be encapsulated for free :wink:

A quick fix could be to remove the problem if you're so inclined - replace the SS screws with aluminum or even nylon screws. - Ya, I know - he could get a SS strip too.. 8)

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:44 pm
by TomW
Larry Louis is probably right cover it with your epoxy/graphite and check it once a year since your going to be trailering. Put a zinc where you want if you want. Lets get this boat built. :wink:

Tom

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Lucky, I hear ya, you've got a point, but you don't know me :lol: It may get moored anywhere. I'm of an adventuresome nature and prone to getting a wild hair once in a while :lol: It might end up in a marina for weeks somewhere, and you're right, that is the worst place for corrosion damage. It might move to Belize or Costa Rica. I might sell it to someone else who keeps it salty, ya just never know. Might as well do it right.

Encapsulation is fine, but it will be scratched through to the metal within the first week of use. Maybe even the first day at the concrete ramp, the wind opposing the current, it will bounce on the concrete and leave an open current path on the aluminum. I think it needs a zinc. Tom's right.

It only takes a little more effort to build it right. Or as right as I know how, taking into consideration all advice and research. It is mostly a non problem for sure, but a small zinc will keep it from ever becoming one. If something doesn't get done right on one of my boats, it will be because of ignorance, and not because of laziness or cheapness 8O

Do it right, do it once, rely on it. It will never be easier than now :D

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:30 am
by Lucky_Louis
If something doesn't get done right on one of my boats, it will be because of ignorance, and not because of laziness or cheapness
8)

Then chuck the aluminum strip and put in a stainless one. Case closed :wink:

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Then chuck the aluminum strip and put in a stainless one. Case closed
No it's not, Lucky, :P

My research informed me that transfer of shock to the hull would be greater with stainless, as it is harder. It is also more brittle. The softer material absorbs a lot more shock without transfering as much energy. Cost was about the same on both. The dealer had both. I really went in with the intention of buying stainless, and he swayed my mind.

The stainless would require more labor, with no advantage. Stainless is not an ideal metal to use below water anyway. It needs air to work properly.

Shine's going to put up his dead horse gif if we carry this on further :lol:

Thanks....

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:45 pm
by TomW
Larry your right stainless can be worthless below the waterline, it has to be passivated 316 which is rather expensive. You can find screws to use McFeely's the square-head folks has them or a marine supply shop should have them. If it isn't you might as well use plain iron the stainless won't last much longer, if your boat just sits at a mooring. Stainless needs a flow of salt water over it, to create the chromium oxide coat that protects it. Passivated 305 will also last longer.

Tom

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:50 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Hey CrackerLarry

How's Sam :) It seem's we've most if not all a page without seeing any of his work. Recovery going well, I hope. Not sure about Georgia but we have been having lots of rain and dare I say cool temps at night here. Makes for some great epoxy weater, if you're building inside.

Looking forward to some Sam style
Huck

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam is doing good Huck, he says thanks for asking :D He's recovering fine from the surgery, starting to grow back his hair, but a month indoors has spoiled him rotten and he prefers to lay on MY bed with the A/C and the ceiling fan, rather than get out in the heat. He's slowly regaining his strength and stamina. He'll be fine but I think he won't be happy until fall :roll: I'm moving slower with the heat too, so I can't blame him. He's got a fur coat. :wink:

We've been getting a little rain, not enough but a little, and a record low of 66, night before last. Still 95 in the daytime.

I've been looking at my shop, thinking about expanding it so I could build inside with climate control. I think I'd be finished if I could build in air conditioning. Probably drink less beers too.

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:56 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
At least you wouldn't have to drink them as fast b/c they wouldn't get hot! I agree that my next shop will have climate control. I have yet to move the boat out into the new building. Seems like it would be easier to move it just once...onto the trailer.

Huck

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:46 am
by TomW
Larry did the boat ever dry out from the wash down. Glad you liked the article, it was better than me trying to expain things. Watch those beers a fuzzy tummy can be a nasty thing when mixed with epoxy, but they taste so good in the heat. Give Sam a hug I have a 15 year old kitty cat that I don't know what I'll do when she's gone

You were talking about your shop and expanding it, it would be worth it to get the air conditioning in the summer. When I built mine here I put windows in so I could add window units if I needed them, so far the mountains have been kind to me and fans are all I have needed. I also put in an overhead dust collector.

Look forward to your next pictures.

Tom

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
I haven't hit a lick on it since I washed everything down. It's good and dry! So I'll tell you a fish story.

Been fishing and shrimping in the GF16 several times since then. Shrimp are still too small for eating, but there are plenty for bait. Fishing has been real good.

My son and I landed 2 tarpon Sunday morning, one each :D Mostly by accident.

We had set out to fish for cobia around the Broad River bridge near Beaufort, SC. When we put the boat in, the wind was blowing about 20 out the NW and choppy at the landing. We went into a little creek and caught some shrimp and small fish with a cast net, for bait, then headed out to the big river. When we got into the river the waves were nasty. Don't know if you're familiar with it, but the river is over a mile wide and the bridge is only a few miles from the ocean. It is a wide open fetch. I turned down towards the bridge with the wind behind me and the incoming tidal current opposite the wind. Waves were over our head in the GF16 and about a boat length apart. They were breaking but breaking in the direction we wanted to go. We were getting soaked but the boat was riding well at about 10 kts. I went about a half mile and decided it would be prudent to test the upriver direction and see if we could go back. As soon as I made the turnaround, I realized I had reached the safety limits of the GF. 8O Actually I realized it while running downwind after getting out in the river good, which was why I turned around. Heading into those waves was a whole nother story. They were so close that you could not clear the one you were on before the next was coming over the bow. I had to slow to idle and negotiate each wave at an angle, working first one way then another, tacking like a sailboat so I could take the waves on a bow quarter. It took us an hour to make back the half mile, and get in more protected waters. The GF did great, never took any solid green water, just heavy spray, but it would have swamped with a moments inattention to the helm. Certainly the worst I've ever had it out in, and a little worse than I will take it out in again. But I'm still impressed with it.

Back to the fish, once we got out of that mess, we anchored in the mouth of a small creek that had a 20ft. deep hole and oyster bars on both sides and across the mouth, with the tide filling over the oysters. It looked good for reds and trout so we rigged up some float rigs. I baited a shrimp and my son baited up a finger mullet. As soon as his bait hit the water a 90lb. tarpon inhaled it and shot straight up in the air about 20 feet. About an hour and 60 jumps later we landed and released the tarpon. 10 lb. tackle, not bad 8) Went right back to the same spot (I had slipped the anchor to fight the fish) and I casted a finger mullet into the creek mouth. Same thing happened again, but this time it was a little one, maybe 40 pounds.
Got about 30 jumps out of it and had it boatside in 30 minutes or so. Released it happy and healthy.

After that we caught 2 croakers, a toad fish, a lizard fish and then about a 3 lb. lady fish that jumped more than the tarpon. Those little fish are spunky 8) Lost the lady fish.

Came home with no fish and enough shrimp for a sandwich, nothing much but a good time. My son is almost 19 and we don't get a lot of time together anymore. We both enjoyed this day in our home built boat.

Will be back to boat building tomorrow, unless my son asks me to go fishing :wink:

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:51 pm
by dewers
sounds like a great time. I miss fishing for reds

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:31 pm
by TomW
Sounds like you ran into one nasty chop there, hurrah for the OD16. Glad you had a great time with your son, times like that seem to get fewer as we get older. :cry:

Tom

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:27 pm
by PastorBob
Larry I enjoy the report... keep me updated on the fishing down there... I will be coming down in a few weeks... Also if you need a Metal building let me know my Bro. designs and builds in claxton... Glad to here Sam is coming around...

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:49 am
by Cracker Larry
Bob, the whiting, reds, trout, cobia, sharks, and tarpon are all biting good inshore. Shrimp are still small for eating but plenty of them.

Sam is back on the job :D We've had a cool rainy weekend and was able to get some work done yesterday.

First we wanted to form a straight sharp edge where the transom meets the bottom. I built a dam with a plastic covered scrap of plywood, and clamped it to the transom. This will hopefully give me a nice straight edge. We mixed some milled glass fibers and wood flour with epoxy for the filler here, and packed it in there good. The milled fibers are about as user friendly as chopped pine straw :P

Then we got started with the fairing compound. We used the blended filler sold by our hosts and it works well, once you find the right consistency. We got everything done except the transom 8) That was a significant job and took most of the day, about 8 hours :!: I'm sore from bending, squatting, stooping, mixing and spreading. But we got it without heat stroke.

A shot from the bow..

Image

And the stern...you can see my mold here... Sam is proud to be working again.

Image

And the other stern...

Image

This morning we took off the mold. It did a fairly good job of retaining the filler and creating a sharp vertical edge, But the milled fiber filler is a little rough. I'll need to spend some time with the block plane and sure-form on this. We should have used more wood flour and less milled fiber, I think :doh: May have to repeat this process. We'll see.

Image

So that's where we're at today. Off to sharpen the plane :D

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:12 pm
by timoub007
Looking good Larry. Thanks for showing the picture of your clamped on dam. I think when I cut my tunnel out and redo it next month I will try this. I'm going to coat the bottom with several layers of graphite/epoxy at that time anyway and figured having a sharp edge could only help my quest.

Mocha said to tell Sam 'hi' and she is glad that he's supervising your excellent work once again. She'll be helping me out as usual when I get back to it too.

Of course, the powerpack went out on my 25 a week ago. Being the bastard little motor that I have, that part is about three times normal for a 25 at $370. 8O I think I'm going to work on my other motor before spending that kind of dough.

Take care,
Tim

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:44 pm
by TomW
Larry why the milled fiber, for what your doing it really isn't neccessary and just creates problems sanding and planing, you will have fuzzy wuzzies to deal with for a while, plus they will wick anything you put on it into them. A thick wood flour mix with maybe some of the standard thickener in it would be better. I know you want something hard and want to do it right but sometimes we can overkill things. :doh:

We discussed this in another forum on squaring the chines.

Nice job neat solution on the transom. :D

Tom

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:40 pm
by gk108
I think I can see some reasoning behind using milled fibers. That will end up being a highly exposed, relatively sharp corner. Milled fibers will create a funky matrix that will distribute pinpoint stresses to a large area of the supporting substrate. It's not really overkill. It's more like using the best technology available to prevent a potential problem. One thing for sure, it will be tough (starting today :D ). It matches that tough skeg. 8)

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you GK, that's my answer to Tom, too :) Edges take a beating. The milled fibers are a lumpy mess, but they are stronger. They actually did good, I think.

Tom, what's necessary for me is to do the best I know how to do. I like overkill. Shoot twice, I say. Surely you've noticed?:D No offense, but I don't mind some extra trouble. What am I gonna do otherwise, watch TV? Not. Sam and I got it taken care of :wink:

First we attacked that lumpy mess with the sure-form sander, for about 3 minutes, then switched to the block plane and started shaving her down. Looks like this...

Image

About 10 more minutes with the plane and it looked like this... No fuzz on these edges, Tom :lol:

Image

Then we smeared the transom and edges with fairing compound...

Image

And ended up with edges looking like this...

Image

Of course it still needs sanding. Nothing but a plane was used to this point, other than to scratch it up a little by hand for the fairing to key.

Sam says it will do, good enough now. 8)

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:56 am
by WobblyLegs
Larry,

It looks like you should be able to tow that boat to the water without a trailer, and not damage it. It looks that tough.

Like the edge.

Tim.

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:08 am
by TomW
I surrenndor, it works and with the fairing compound no wicking. beuatiful job as usual. I keep forgetting you have those oysterbeds to beat the edges and everything else off. Love the hood ornament, its so good. :wink:

Tom

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:09 pm
by ks8
Great pictures! Nice sharp edge. I found the West 403 works well in place of wood flour and sometimes I blend it with coarser milled glass. Your transom edge is convincing me to try a sureform and block plane to lower the noise and dust working at night, not that my cv16 needs sharp edges. Displacement... nice rounded edges on this one, but who knows with the next? Good to see Sam keeping a watchful eye...

:)

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks guys :D

KS, I'm a believer in the block plane, and have not used the sander on this build nearly as much as in the past. It is faster, cleaner, easier to control, no dust, no noise, no dish shaped marks. Got to love it 8)

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:03 pm
by mecreature
I like the story Larry,,

Anything can wait for fishing with your son... at any age..

Sureform and plane are a must with this stuff.. I pulled some old round and half round sureform and files out that I had when I was doing my front porch deco work.. detail stuff

I learn quick if it makes the job easier..


nice clean edge on that transom..

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:18 pm
by Oceola
Hi Larry,
The boat is looking great! Glad to see Sam back on station too.
I'm with you on block planes. Have been using some of my dads' as long as I can remember (a LONG time, I'm 67). I also like scrapers, especially for epoxy or paint "runs". there was a good thread about scrapers a while back...do a search. If you need an odd shaped scraper for a small job, take a small window pane and break it. Instant sharp scrapers in all shapes. Duct tape the edge you're holding.
If you like that block plane your using in the picture you would absolutely LOVE a "Low Angle Plane". The lower angle (12 degrees) makes working plywood edges or any end grain wood a dream.
The one I have is a Stanley "Contractor Grade Low Angle Plane" that has an adjustable cutter AND mouth (the part of the plane from the front of the blade to the front of the plane). Got it at Ace Hardware for around $45.00. Money well spent. It's one tool Stanley still makes that is top quality.
Love that shade of red for "Blackjack". Great color as long as you're on good terms with the game wardens.
Later,
Frank

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Mecreature, yes I'll drop anything to take my son fishing, nothing else is possibly worth the time shared :wink:

I need to improve my sure-form collection. I've only got this one, and it's about 25 years old, and getting dull :| But over the years it's been one of the most used tools in the box.

That edge did come out nice, didn't it? When I first looked at the lumpy mess, I figured I would be grinding it all off and starting over, but it was only lumpy on the top and I had made sure I had plenty of material to work with. It's sharp as a knife and hard as a rock, so I guess it's a success.

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:16 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:I'm a believer in the block plane, and have not used the sander on this build nearly as much as in the past. It is faster, cleaner, easier to control, no dust, no noise, no dish shaped marks. Got to love it 8)
Larry, I've read of others using a plane for shaving epoxy, but have been a bit wary of trying it myself - does the epoxy mix damage the edge at all? Do you adjust it to a very fine shave?

T.

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Frank, thanks for the good words. I don't know how good of terms I'm on with the Game Wardens but they all know me by name :roll: There won't be any stealth with this one, for sure.

Great tip about the broken glass scrapers, good idea. I use scrapers, too.

I'll have to look for that plane. This one is a Stanley and it's over 30 years old. I have about 4, but this is my favorite. I think I'm mechanically challenged as to adjusting the dang things, which is why I can only get really good results with this one. I know how to adjust it.

Wait until you see the graphics we've got coming for Blackjack :D VMan77 (David) has been patiently designing something real nice for me :!:

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
T., no it doesn't damage the edge at all. Of course you have to keep the plane sharp for good results, but I don't find that it dulls any faster with epoxy than it does with wood. Maybe less even. And yes, it is adjusted to a very fine shave. Just guessing, .02, thin enough to see through.

Try it, you'll like it. A plane takes a little practice, both in sharpening, adjusting and in user technique, angle of cut and pressure. But once you get it figured out, nothing does as good a job (for me).

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
There is sure a lot of building going on :!: You can get way down this list in a hurry :lol:

I had to spend most of the week in Atlanta, but Sam and I managed to get a little done.

We had spread fairing compound last weekend. The first part of the week we built some nice fillets along the style line, or lapstrake line. We made an executive decision and decided not to install the spray rails, so this line neede to be faired out smooth IMO.

Got home from Atlanta last night and woke up to rain and reasonably cooler temps this morning. We decided to take advantage of the cool and do the nasty job of sanding. Ugh :(

After 7 hours, 18 sanding disks, and no feeling in my arms, I sanded the entire outside hull. Sam had to mostly stay inside, because I can't find a mask to fit him. This is the worst job in boatbuilding to me, but I know it is one of the most important ones, for the finish to be good.

this is what it looks like now...

Image

I can't stand upright..

Image

And I can't lift my arms higher than my waist...

Image

But it's done.

And the transom edge came out better than expectations...

Image

I'm not sure now if we should smear it with fairing compound one more time, or just roll on a couple of thin coats of resin. I'm leaning towards the resin only. It's real smooth as it is. Probably a couple of coats of resin, then the high build primer will take care of any imperfections.

I'll sleep on that. Probably will sleep real good 8)

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Not pictured, but I also ground a flat spot on the stem, for the bow eye to mount on and sit flush. I wanted to do this before I did any priming and painting.

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:48 pm
by rcihard
Looks fantastic Larry, I wish I had been more energetic with the fairing compound and sanding with my od16 I would have got a much better finish on my hull! Well "live and learn" first boat excuse and all that!
I think you are going to end up with that magical mirror finish look.
Looking forward to seeing the finish on your hull.
BTW does Sam travel with you in your boats? Ive got a Kelpie (Red cloud) who wouldnt stay out of mine while I was building and we were thinking of letting her in the boat, but we were wondering if the decks would stand up to her claws etc?
Any experience with this?

Again great work on the hull.

Cheers
Richard

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:02 pm
by ks8
Sleep well! Heal well! :)

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
KS, I hurt from my toes to my nose :help:

Richard, thanks, I'm going to try to make it right this time. I don't want to paint it, then say to myself, I wish I spent more time on sanding and prep work. What's one more days pain, compared to years of satisfaction?

And yes, Sam is a boat dog. His claws have never done much more than make minor surface scratches. I wouldn't not take him for worrying about scratches on a boat anyway. He lives in my house. Boats are to be used and dogs have to be accounted for. I've always had a boat dog. If they scratch the boat, I fix the scratch. :roll: Nothing but a thing.

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:41 am
by TomW
Very nicely done 7+ hours and all those disc changes and beers. :wink:
I can feel for you, take 3 asprin and call for help in the morning. :lol:

Tom(One who knows)

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:03 am
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:KS, I hurt from my toes to my nose :help:
Well... at least you know those nerves are still alive and well! :lol:

I've got a killer sanding session today and tomorrow, rough on the knees. I throw lots of thick towels down to lean on. By Sunday night, I predict I will feel your pain. :? Just about the time you are feeling chipper again. 8) :)

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:14 am
by Cracker Larry
Misery does love company :P

If this fog burs off, I'm going to spend a couple of hours with the rollers, just to loosen up my arm muscles.

I'll meet you at cocktail hour and we'll raise a glass, if I can lift it. Might need a long straw :D

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:44 am
by ks8
:lol:

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:17 pm
by gk108
That looks great, Larry. Leaving the rails off probably saved a whole week of work. If you keep going like this, someone will want to pop a mold off of that hull. :lol:

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:24 pm
by Spokaloo
Man Im jealous.

7 hrs? 18 discs?

Im thinking smaller boats iz better boats.

2 weeks, 125 discs in 2 different grits, 2 longboards, 16 half sheets, and 2 belt sander belts cut up.

Lucky.....

E

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
8O 8O 8O
I can only imagine your pain :help: You must be younger than I am. That right there is what is standing between me and building a big boat. I'd have to hire some illegals to sand it for me :wink:

98 degrees today in the shade. Wish I was working in the shade. Easy does it.

I did get 2 full coats of resin rolled on the exterior this weekend. The bottom looks really good, ready for the graphite. The lower side panels I think will need a little more fairing compound. And a little more sanding :( , before it will be ready for primer. Upper side panels are also good.

Should I sand the epoxy before applying primer? The primer is S 3 high-build.

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:37 pm
by gk108
Should I sand the epoxy before applying primer? The primer is S 3 high-build.
Yep. 150 grit according to this application guide. That gives the paint a good surface to key to.

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the link, GK! Perfect. 150 grit? You mean that my 60 grit has to go? :doh:

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:22 pm
by gk108
Cracker Larry wrote:150 grit? You mean that my 60 grit has to go? :doh:
Sure. Take a little time to enjoy some of the finer things in life. :lol:

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
And I guess I'm supposed to sand between coats, too :?: Boat building is a lot like work :doh:

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:47 pm
by TomW
You don't sand between coats of high build that's wiegh its called high build. Like snow in winter get the coats on. Then smooth it out.
:D
Tom

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:47 pm
by Boomer
You don't sand between coats of high build that's wiegh its called high build. Like snow in winter get the coats on. Then smooth it out.
Very Happy
You didn't have to tell him that. We've got perfect sanding weather now,and CL needs a little character building exercise.

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:10 pm
by TomW
Boomer, your probably right he does need an excuse for Sam to supervise him and have a couple of cold ones! :lol:

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:20 pm
by mecreature
I dont see how anyone can resist sanding between coats.. :roll:

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Boomer, that's ugly. Grandma gettin' out the tub ugly :P Thanks for saving me, Tom.

No excuse necessary for a cold one in this heat, though 8O.

It's so hot, Sam has deserted me. He say's he ain't coming back out till fall.

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
This is what she looked like after 1 thin coat of rolled on epoxy...

Image

And this is what she looks like after the second coat...

Image

You can see along the chine panels where some more filler was/is needed. Also on the topside panel. More sanding is in my future. Need to go to the beer store, again.

Here's a stern view..you can see here where just a little more filler was needed, also. I think I was too hesitant to spread it thick enough, should have smeared on more the first time.

Image

I think I'll take the GF16 out this weekend, do some shrimping and fishing, stay wet, and maybe this heat will break. It's too hot to sand. It can wait. 8)

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:59 pm
by TomW
Nice Larry, I see one place about the even with the front of the Skeg on the chine other than that it looks great. This heat has got to go went to town today and the temps at the banks were reading 98. Far above our normal 86's.

Good fishing and shrimping this weekend. :D Keep cool any way you can. :!:

Tom

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:29 am
by Spokaloo
Turned out nicer than my LB did, nice work!

E

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:14 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
I'm with you on the heat, Larry. I sanded the inside of the Sled Tuesday (3 hrs of fun) thinking I could paint. The temp and humidity in the garage never get below 85 and 85%. No way it would go on like that.

It seems like a good time for a break, anyway. You've made great progress and the boat looks like one of the best jobs i've seen.

Congrats

Huck

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:16 am
by Yoda
Looking fine to me, Larry
Hug your dogs for Yoda too. :)

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:07 pm
by plumbertuck
awesome looking larry !, to me they look dang near perfect,I hope to get my next od started soon, it is going to be a challenge to me to do work like that !
keep it up !

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks to everybody for the encouragement :D

Tuck, it's dang near perfect, but I'm going to go over it one more time, and try to make it a little dang nearer, anyway. Only get to do it right once. The challenge has been the heat, and me dripping sweat all over everything. The way your boat looks, you won't have any trouble doing as well. My first one didn't look nearly this good either, and I spent more time sanding on it, too. And wasted a lot more resin. And time.

Just keeps getting hotter, doesn't it? 102 in the shade here, with a heavy haze and light drizzle. Humidity 100%. It's really summer now :help:

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:04 pm
by Bayport_Bob
Are you going to primer the hull? If so here's a quote from Joel that I agree with 1000%...
Rolled extra primer onto the boat. You can never be sure how fair your surface is until you get an even white coat on.
It's difficult to see unfair areas with all the different color contrast of an unprimed surface.

Just a thought - Bob

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes I am, Bob. I've got some System 3 primer ready to go, when I think the time is right. You can sure tell better by looking at a shiny surface rather than a dull one. Don't know if this primer is shiny or dull? But I do know it's gray and not white. :lol:

You are right about all the contrasts. Some areas look rough, but when you run your hand over them, you can't feel anything but smooth.

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:05 am
by Jerry-rigged
It's kind of an eggshell/ satin finish. but trust everyone that has said it. 2-3 coats later, you will be able to see every little rough spot, every dip, ever imperfection, every 60-grit sanding scratch 8O . It sands real easy, though... :lol:

Jerry

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:50 am
by tech_support
gray or white it will still show the spots, especially is you "dust" it with some quick dry spray paint/primer before sanding.

I just finished do this on the Aquasport. Its hot here also, though no where near as hot as low country right now. My sister on Hilton head said it was 105 yesterday - no sea breeze 8O. last couple days here we wrapped up boat work by 10:30 or so. Hot :!:

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:17 am
by Cracker Larry
Joel, after I get the primer on and notice more imperfections, is it OK to apply more fairing compound over the primer?

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:28 am
by tech_support
yes :!:

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:32 am
by mecreature
that boat looks good to go with primer..

I bet you dont have much faring work after the primer.

That primer is kind of easy to sand but it seems very tough too.

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
:D :D

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK! I've got it straight now I think. The Aquasport rebuild thread was excellent information.

In the past I've never tried to achieve more than a work boat finish, so I never learned the finer points. We're going to try and give this one a yacht finish. No particular reason other than just to learn how and see if we can :)

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:40 pm
by ks8
From your primer question in the Aquasport thread...

You can sit the mixed primer in a shallow tray with some ice, better, ice cold with no ice in it (don't want to risk freezing the stuff right at the container surface touching ice cubes), to help normalize pot life in this heat. I think the main concern is working time on the hull surface, before it levels and films. That is what will be tricky in this heat. I mostly spray this stuff now, but occasionally I brush, and it does film fast in heat. Maybe small batches and a willingness to sand down some ridges where batches meet after it dries. When you are not building in a climate controlled shop, you know, do what you can on the schedule you can. I'm sure Sam has reminded you of this. :)

I messed up the final topcoats of LPU on the transom area after all the prep work that looked so nice. Nothing that can't be fixed ... next year, but again, no options. Had to do it, gun clogged, air dried out, lots of worst case rolled together. But the primer is a little more forgiving. Maybe thin a little more and apply more coats? But in the heat, maybe straight water instead of an alcohol mix, as the alcohol might evaporate too fast and cause faster filming.

But you'll be able to sand fair even a less than perfect application. Only thing is that less than perfect might use twice as much primer and need more sanding. Let's see if Joel responds with his Florida heat primer experiences. I think that is partly answered in him saying they knock of work in the crazy heat at 10:30 am. Greets to Sam and Del :)

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:52 pm
by Dougster
Knock on wood in the crazy heat. Well that's tellin' it. She's just looking great Larry. You gotta be down in the trenches to 'preciate how good a job you're doing. If ole Sam's gone to ground you better pay attention.

'Preciatin' Dougster

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:17 am
by TomW
Larry found this on the sight a while ago forgot I had it also. It's labeled for Sterling but all the steps can be applied to S3 also.

Joel it is a great manual.

http://boatbuildercentral.com/help/ster ... ll_tip.htm

Look forward to your painting progress. I'd try to get in on early in the morning, before the heat kicks in. Most paints don't like it above 85, when they are going on.

Tom

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:29 pm
by ks8
S3 primer can be re-applied, I think the app notes say, up to a week after previous coats, without having to sand. So if you only work from 6 am til 10 am, but do not get to a second coat or third coat, you know you can followup safely next morning.

Two part LPUs, on the other hand, can often have a 2 hour limit on recoating without sanding, and so needs much more care and careful planning if you are going for the *yacht* finish. I do not wish sanding between coats on anyone, not that it would kill you, but why if you can plan and do them all immediately after one another. :lol: And that ain't likely happenin' in this heat.... but you're probably fine to do the priming one coat each morning. I think there is more concern for you working in the heat, than for the boat. Don't pull a *Sam*. No drainage tubes if it can be avoided... :|

Lovin the progress. :)

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:12 pm
by TomW
Larry iit is 72 hours of cure time before resanding is required. Here is the Tech sheet http://www.systemthree.com/members/tds/WR-155_TDS.pdf It also requires 6 hrs minimum between coats. So 1 a day for 3 days looks like it unless this heat moderates.

If it doesn't come thru go to System 3 and become a member it lets you get the tech sheets then. www.systemthree.com

Good luck Tom

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:18 pm
by gk108
ks8 wrote: I think there is more concern for you working in the heat, than for the boat. Don't pull a *Sam*. No drainage tubes if it can be avoided...
Over here on the other corner of the state it was 100° at 11AM today :!: 8O
The air is so saturated with humidity that you can literally feel the density of it. The only relief I know of is to seek out one of those fountains of youth that Ponce deLeon was talking about. A blue hole spring with 72° water flowing from it can be quite invigorating. :D

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the advice. I did go to the System 3 website and signed up. I've downloaded and read all of their technical sheets, as well as the Sterling info Tom linked me too. I think I know what I need to do now. More sanding :roll:

Was hoping to get at it this AM some, but spent all morning working on the %$@*^% tractor, which decided to strip all the *%^$%^& steering gears off the rack and pinion. And then ran through the fence 8O I had to replace the steering shaft, gear rack and pitman arm. Started at 0700 and finished at 1400. Then fixed the fence. Then mowed some grass. It was 90 at sunrise and 104 at 2pm. Thought I was gonna die. No boat work..

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:33 pm
by TomW
Larry it cooled down here in the mountaiins today, maybe it will get to you in a couple of days. :P Well I can hope for you anyway.

Tractors can be so much fun can't they. Had to get a new battery for mine this past week, may need to have the starter rebuilt to. Sounds like you had an interesting ride anyway. :roll: Hope you didn't get banged up to much.

Tom

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:40 pm
by TomW
Hey five days and no posts here just lightning stories. Too hot for you to do any work down there? :lol: Or you just fishing and shrimping to stay out of the heat. :P

Tom

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:01 pm
by Dougster
Jeez you guys are gettin hit this summer. Texas has been mostly peaches. Rained all day today from coastal tropical storm. Cool, easy day. That tractor thing sounds a pita to me. Never ran one, though I am capable of tearing up a riding mower. Hang in there Larry, there'll be a better day.

Been havin' it too easy Dougster

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, too hot. Haven't hit a lick on the boat in almost 2 weeks :roll: I just can't bring myself to sand when it's over 100 degrees. It can wait for a cooler day :!: Fall is coming and I've got a perfectly good boat to use.

Pastor Bob is on his way over right now, and we're going to put the GF16 in the river 8)

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:55 pm
by TomW
Catch some nice ones and stay cool, we set a record here in the mountains yesterday to. :roll: Say hi to Pastor Bob hope you guys have a good time.

Tom

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:27 am
by Dougster
Ditto for me on the hello to Pastor Bob, though I guess I'm a little late. I'm sure I wouldn't sand in that heat. This is supposed to be fun and, like you say, fall is a comin' :)

Always looks forward to that first norther blowing in Dougster

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Back again :)

Pastor Bob did come to visit on Friday afternoon, and he was a pleasure to have. We discussed boatbuilding, while watching lightning in the distance. Put the GF16 in the water late, getting towards dark, but we had a good hour or more in the river.

For the first time ever, the Merc. 25 took about 30 pulls to crank :oops: Usually cranks on 1 :doh: Go figure.

Bob performed some stability tests, and I performed some stump jumping tests and shallow water handling demonstrations, taking the boat through a gator slide.

Hopefully he will share his impressions of the GF, and I hope he comes back to visit when he has more time :D

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
We had a cold front move through yesterday, highs were only 95 :D So we got back to some boat building.

I wasn't real happy with the fairing so far, so I decided to sand all that shiny glass down again, and apply another coat of fairing compound. Started sanding at 0800, finished about 1300 :| I hate sanding, have I mentioned that?

Then I cleaned off all the dust and amine with water and a rag. Let that dry good for an hour or so, while I swam in the pool 8)

Once it was dry, I trowelled on a thick layer of Quick Fair. It is really nice to apply, and goes a long ways. Very user friendly, and fills better than the blended filler mix. It only took about 10 oz. to cover the entire exterior.

Image

Kind of like icing a cake..

Image

That was enough for one day. Back to the pool :!:

Got up this morning and fired up the dreaded sander again. The quick fair does sand easily, but it is still not a pleasant task. I hung in there, took about 4 beers, and got it all sanded smooth again. Real smooth.

Image

The weather man was wrong, it was 98 again. Any funny looking spots are sweat drops.

Image

But we got it done, and I'm a lot happier about it now :D

Image

The Quick Fair filled a lot of spots that the blended filler did not. Clearly a superior product.

Next, one thin coat of resin rolled on for a seal coat. One more light sanding. Then primer.

Slow but sure :wink:

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:45 pm
by ks8
You'll be done before me. :lol:

Today in the tent was 82F (50's - 60's at night!). That's better than the usual 105-115. Dare I say I was getting used to it? No way! :?

Have you used a long board at all? I may, but probably only on the bottom. Looking good! :)

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:00 pm
by Deedaddy
If you guys miss sanding you can visit me. My shop is air conditioned... :lol:
Now be careful with what your reply...pastor Bob may read this...LOL

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:07 pm
by Knottybuoyz
I noticed Sam was absent from today's photos! He was smart and stayed inside out of the heat and dust! Smart Sam! :)

Lookin' Good Larry!

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:01 pm
by PastorBob
Larry thank you so much for allowing me to visit the swamps, and even more for taking me to them!!! :D This was the highlight of my trip as the other 4 days where filled with a floor sander and 70 years worth of varnish…. :x I am now really excited to finish my GF-16…. I had 5 questions about the boat….

1. Stability – Larry and I (about 500 pounds) leaned over the port and had 4-6â€

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:41 am
by Cracker Larry
You're welcome here any time, Bob. My pleasure :D

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
KS, yes I did use a home made long board. That thing will sure give you a workout :!:

And yes, Sam has been staying in the cool. Too hot for his fur coat.

I went out yesterday evening to look things over, and noticed a few spots that could use a little more Quick Fair. So I took the time and spread on another layer.

Got up and out early this morning and sanded those spots, one more time. Then using the air compressor and a stiff brush I cleaned off all the dust.

Then we mixed up some more epoxy and rolled on a sealing coat over the fairing. Now it's looking good :D

Image

All the weave is filled, and there are no imperfections to be seen..

Image

It is about as slick as ice...

Image

Now I think we are finally ready for primer. One more sanding with 150 grit, then she's going to get some color :!:

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:05 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks really good. You think it's slick now, wait till the high build is on. I can't wait to see that RED.

Huck

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Huck. I can't wait to see that red either!

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Huck, tell me how much graphite powder you mixed with the epoxy on your TX. Any hints I need to know would be welcome :lol:

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:48 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Looking EXCELLENT CL, really slick!

I used 25% graphite by volume for the first coat, 40% for subsequent coats. The 25% gave a very high gloss, deep black paint-like look. At 40% it began to look quite metallic, more like the actual graphite. Holding up well so far.

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks LL. How many coats did you apply?

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:21 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
I was going to refer you to Louis thread as He was my reference with great pics to boot.

I haven't put mine on yet. I didn't know what I was going to put on the bottom when I was that side up. Now I will wait until after first launch to get a real world test of the waterline and then I will put it on.

Huck

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:45 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:One more sanding with 150 grit, then she's going to get some color :!:
Larry, at that stage I sanded with 80 grit on the RO. After primer and undercoat there were no visible spiral scratches. After primer I started sanding with 150 grit by hand, using foam pad sanders as well as a 3M rubber sanding block, depending on what was being sanded. After three coats of pain, no scratches are visible.

Do you not get the feeling, just standing near the boat at this stage as the 'poxy's curing, that you are smelling something special?

I stared at mine for ages, just thinking 'wow'. As you should be now!

Beautiful.

Tim.

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:29 pm
by gk108
WobblyLegs wrote:I stared at mine for ages, just thinking 'wow'. As you should be now!

Beautiful.

Tim.
I'm staring at the pictures and saying 'WOW'. Again. :D
Put some graphite on there and it will be like looking down a bottomless pit at midnight on a new moon. For my D15, I used 25% graphite. 3 coats used about 38 oz. of resin & hardener. I don't think I'll have another power boat without graphite on the bottom.

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:34 pm
by TomW
Larry as I recall Lucky used 3 or 4 coats total. He may be out fishing or something. You might try to find it in his build sight. If I find time I'll go through it. Definately use the 45% for those oyster beds of yours. :lol:

Tom

PS: Larry found it he planned on doing 2 but ended up doing four do to using a roller that disintegrated on him and having to sand it down and redo. My wife hasn't gotten home from work yet so she hasn't kicked me off the computer. :lol: I'd probably do 3, all 45%.

Tom

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
I really appreciate all of your comments. You all are more complimentary than my wife.

Tim, this typo of yours is priceless and appropriate :lol:
After three coats of pain, no scratches are visible.
The System 3 primer guide says 150 grit at this stage, so I guess that's what I'll do. There aren't any swirl marks now, and I don't want to make any new ones.

And yes, it's always special to turn a pile of wood into a useful, beautiful thing. I do love it. :D Sort of like giving birth.

It sounds like the consensus is about 3 coats with a 25-50 percent content. I guess it is rolled and tipped, just like the resin?

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:23 pm
by gk108
Go raid the kitchen and get one of these strainers to sift the graphite through.
Image
Mix it really well and use a roller tray with a smooth bottom. I used tray liners with embossed lettering and the graphite clumped in the embossing and those clumps ended up on the roller, then the boat. :x I did my 3 coats quick in the warm weather last year. About 8 hours between them and no sanding.

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:04 pm
by PastorBob
Larry are you going to prime then do graphite on top of primer??? would that bond be as storng as epoxy... then grapite mix???

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:10 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Sorry for the delay. I really miss getting the email notifications on thread updates. :oops: And yes, lots of fishing but not much catchin'... :?

I did 4 coats... sort of. I had problems with the foam roller disintegrating and leaving ugly little chunks all over the finish so after two coats, I sanded and applied two more coats. The term "Coal Miner" comes to mind after that exercise. I've probably ended up with 40-50 mils average thickness. Can't remember how much epoxy I used but I have about half a can of graphite left. Interesting side note: Both my RO and belt sanders got dosed pretty good with the epoxy/graphite dust and I've seen no sign of any electrical shorting or sparking.:doh:

If you're going with graphite, no primer required. Just wash and tack rag your faired surface and fly at it. The horizontal surfces are going to be pretty much self levelling and the sides can be rolled and tipped for a decent finish. Scrape, don't sand any runs :D Buy your rollers here, Joel certifies them epoxy compatible .:wink:

The strainer is a great idea. :idea: I also refrigerated my epoxy and hardener so I could stir for up to 5 minutes and still have decent pot life.

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:18 pm
by ks8
Its so nice and shiney! 8)

I enjoy those stages, and usually feel a little wierd sanding off that nice gloss for the next step of the finish. That's what I'm doing now with primer to get ready to paint the seat risers. Wish it was done. Yours may very well be done before mine. :lol: This brightwork ... really ... slows down the build, or should I say, the finish.

Again, beautiful job CL! :)

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
Lot's of good comments, thanks :!:

GK, good idea on the strainer. If I'm going to get in trouble though, I might as well go for the flour sifter. :wink: Did you use that plastic spreader to help spread the graphite epoxy?

Bob, I think I'll only put primer on the sides and transom, all the way to the chines. This will help to further fair the visable portion where there is a lot of weave. And it will keep me from having to mask the primer and get a clean line. I won't use primer on the actual bottom. No need. I will overlap the primer with the graphite at the chines and just mask for the graphite at the waterline. At least that's my plan today. Subject to change.

Lucky, I REALLY want to avoid sanding the graphite. I'll try for 3 coats, almost wet on wet. No sanding I hope. I keep my resin and hardner in the air conditioning. With the S3 slow hardener I have plenty of working time. That won't be a problem. I have been buying my rollers from here, although they are labeled West System :doh: , I can't find any like them locally, that don't say West System. Even they start shedding after 20 or 30 minutes, but they do a nice job. You do have to follow with a brush, because they make a lot of small bubbles. Someone needs to invent a better way, but until then I guess we will struggle forward :lol:

KS, thanks, I hate the thought of messing up the shiny again. But it's got to go. One more time. Or 2 more times. Or 3 more :help: Whatever it takes. There is no way it will be finished before spring. Sure am glad I've got the GF16 :D

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:18 pm
by gk108
Did you use that plastic spreader to help spread the graphite epoxy?
That was for some of the quick fair spreading. I just used a roller and foam brush for the graphite.

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, the Cracker has been busy. Yesterday and today were finally cooler, only a fall-like 94. So we hit another milestone.

That shiny thing had to be sanded, 1 more time, to get ready for primer. So yesterday I sanded it, twice :cry: Once with 120 grit, once again with 150 grit. It was slick as a chaulk board 8)

Image

I took advantage of the rougher surface to climb up and install a pair of chain falls. A friend gave me two of them a while back, brand new in the box, 1 ton chain hoists. I hung them from my shed beams. Every boat shop needs a good hoist. Now I've got one :D

Image

After that, I got out the hose and scrub brush again. Washed the entire work area and the boat again. I mean I got it clean.

This morning, I got up early and wiped the hull down with alcohol. Then mixed the primer. I felt somewhat like an alchemist, stirring the base, stirring in the hardener, thinning with a 50/50 alcohol-water mix. Toil and trouble.

I mixed a full quart at one time and it covered the entire outside hull, needing an occasional thinning. The roller worked well, but this stuff doesn't brush tip very good. No problem covering the entire hull within the pot life of the primer, about 45 minutes. Very nice to apply.

I didn't intend to put primer on the bottom, but had a little extra so the bottom got a thin coat also. What the heck.

After letting the first coat dry 4 hours as specified, I rolled on another one. This is what it looks like after 2 coats.....

Image

not bad, huh :?:

Image

Besides a few roller marks, and a few unauthorized bugs, there isn't a flaw in it. If the primer was supposed to show imperfections, I'm in good shape :D

Pool time. I'll let this cure a good couple of 3 days, then sand again. Then put the graphite on the the bottom :D

I'm glad now that I spent the extra time fairing. I think it was worth the effort. Now I'm going to celebrate my milestone :wink:

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:30 pm
by PastorBob
Imagine all you could do in 80 degree weather :D .... Boat looks great... You will love having the hoists I uses them for everything at the boat shop... I can not get any paint or primer to tip in our heat I have switched to spray.... Again the boat looks great hurry up on the graphite I am right behind you... enjoy your well deserved swim!!! (any pics of the captn with a brush in his mouth....)

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:52 pm
by TomW
Larry she's looking great. Love those hoists. Everyone should have them but ceilings tend to get in the way.

Look forward to the next step in 3-4 days after the primer cures and you sand it smooth.

Tom

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:25 pm
by ks8
Looking real good! Gotta love those milestones... :)

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:40 pm
by MadRus
She's looking fantastic Larry. Congratulations on nice work.

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:20 pm
by Bayport_Bob
Just an FYI, especially given the temps you're working in...

The primer becomes progressively harder to sand the longer it cures. Past three days at normal temps, and it starts getting noticeable harder. Before three days, it sands like chalk. Once the primer sands with out clogging the paper, I would try and get as much of the coating sanded as you can.

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:17 am
by Dougster
Just looks great Larry, and boy do I envy those hoists. I'm pretty committed to graphite bottom myself so am following your posts closely now. I did a little test sample with one coat and set out in the sun, vertical, a week ago and yesterday it looks fine. I checked it in the heat of the day, but then we've been blessed with only low 90's here. Strange summer.

Learning something every day Dougster

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:08 am
by Lucky_Louis
She's lookin like she just popped ot of a mold. (that's a compliment 8) )

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:55 pm
by saltponder
Larry,
It looks good enough to leave as is. Isn't that color Basic Adams Bateau Gray? :)
Gil

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wow Gil, do you remember Adams Bateaus? I haven't thought of them in a long time. They made many a wooden skiff, way back when. All of them gray. All of them leaked :help:

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:03 pm
by robbiro
Calm down, Larry :!: You know who built yours and what skills that he has in amateur boat building. That should impress the stuffin's right out of those negative thoughts :P I am truly blown away with how your build is going and how nice and true the hull is now.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

(Photos on the way this week and I get the stitches out of my left thumb on Thursday, so maybe I can get back at it again. It takes two thumbs to lift some of the things that I am dealing with now :?: :doh: )

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:33 am
by saltponder
Larry,
At one time, it seemed like every floating dock on Tybee and Thunderbolt had at least one tied to the dock. The last one I saw was on a trailer at the corner of Battey and 51st. The name of the boat was "The Kids Who Crab on 45th St." (ownership obviously changed hands) and was decorated with crab art and the floor was littered with handlines tied to the gunnel rail. It looked like it had been painted a hundred times and the last paint on it was chartreuse and fuchsia. It was quite a sight. Those bateaus were pretty much the standard around here for decades.
Gil

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've seen that boat! It never struck me it was an Adams. I'm sure glad someone invented epoxy resin.

Thanks for everyone's comments and encouragement. A support group really helps a project move along :D

I have no skill or practice at all in trying to achieve a really good finish, so this will be a learning experience. I already think I will need another coat of primer or 2, for the red paint to look good. And I'm out of primer. I also think I need to wait for cooler weather before applying the finish coats.

So I think now that I'll sand this down once, finish the graphite bottom, then flip the boat and finish the inside. Once the inside is finished, I'll give the outside another coat of primer, then the finish paint. The primer will protect the resin from the sun for a couple of months, and I won't have to worry about messing up a finished outside hull while working on the inside. What do yall think?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:29 pm
by TomW
Sounds like a plan. Others have done it that way. No use scuffing up that pretty red-orange.

You may get some cooler weather, we are down to the 80's and the fronts heading your way. I'll cross my fingers for you.

Tom

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
For all the people who don't have a clue about what Gil and I are talking about, if you are interested see this about Thunderbolt GA.

http://www.hist.armstrong.edu/heritage/ ... illage.htm

They sort of end the story about 1974. That's when the whole town went to prison for smuggling marijuanna. Mayor, police chief, police officers, boat owners, captains and crews, truck drivers, pilots, everybody. It was a mess.

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:46 pm
by TomW
Great bit of history of an earlier era. As you said a real mess.

Tom

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:42 pm
by jayb01
Lived on E 52nd St for a few years. Spent many a night at Coach's Corner.

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:42 am
by TomW
Larry saw your pics in the gallery of the primer. When you flipping her.

Tom

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, I was hoping to get 3 coats of graphite on the bottom, starting today, and having her flipped by Monday.

But we had a low pressure system move in and sit right on top of us. Had 4 inches of rain since yesterday and the weatherman says it will be around all weekend. Can't complain, we really need the rain. And the high today was about 78! Twenty degrees cooler than any day the last month. Hard to complain about that either 8)

So if the weather gives me an opportunity the bottom will be black by Monday. If not, so it goes :doh: I'll drag a sheet of plywood into the shop and start laying out the console.

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:21 pm
by Dougster
Hey Larry, I'm looking forward to how graphite goes on. Pics and tips are sure welcome :) How's Sam feel about the weather break? We got the same here in Tx the last 2 days and evenings have been real nice. My piece of sample graphite (only one coat) seems fine after 10 days or so in the sun.

Day by day Dougster

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dougster, yeah, everyone is happy about the weather change. I might start getting some work out of Sam again.

I'll be sure to have some pics, but I don't know about tips :doh: Flying blind, but have studied enough info to maybe not botch it up too bad. Heck, it's just epoxy. I'm most worried about getting the waterline marked right

Glad to hear your experiment is holding up after 10 days. This is going to need to last a lot longer than that :P The System 3 people have assured me that heat won't be a problem and that the graphite provides plenty of UV protection. If the folks that make it are confident in it's application with graphite, then I'm not going to loose sleep over it. It will be OK.

How is your side panels shaping up?

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:37 am
by TomW
Larry glad to hear your getting rain, haven't had any measurable in a month. Better rain and cool than heat. The boat will be there. And like you said always something else to work on.

Have a good Labor Day.

Tom

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:14 pm
by Dougster
Larry, I'm over worrying about the graphite too. Seems like a great solution to me: rugged, low (no) maintenance, and looks pretty good too. Bet I make a mess puttin' it on though! Course that's in the future. I've pretty much decided things are "good 'nuff" regarding my panels and the frames, so this morning I got some cheap luann ply sheets to cut out templates for the two front frames. Once I got 'em cut and fit from the meranti it'll be time to fillet and tape. I sure look forward to getting that far.

He may be old, but he's slow Dougster

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:10 pm
by dbldipper1
Graphite bottom looking good Larry. How was it to apply??? Am going to use it on my FL12.

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dougster, yes, I've just learned that this stuff is really a mess :help: My graphite came in a zip-lock bag, inside another, inside another, inside a trash bag. My hands were black by the time I got 2 bags into it. Ziplocs don't contain this stuff. I was black to the elbows before I got it measured out. But that was the worst of it.

The rain broke this morning. A lot of places around me had 12", we've had about 7, in the last 48 hours.

So I got to sanding again, and sanded the primer. Bayport Bob was absolutely right, this primer should be sanded in about 3 days. After 7 days, it was hard as concrete 8O Anyway, got it done :D Always happy to be finished sanding something, and I don't think the bottom will need it again.

So after I sanded the primer, I measured and scribed the waterline, or what I hope is the waterline. This took a while to get it where it looked right, and it is possibly not, but that's OK. I can adjust it later, after the first splash.

Then I masked off the waterline, and attached a drip skirt all around...

Image

Once masked, I wiped the prepped area down with alcohol, then let it dry while I had a beer :wink:

Then we mixed up a 12 oz. batch of epoxy with 25% by volume graphite. Stirred it in real, real good and rolled it out, tipping with a dry foam brush behind the roller. This covered about 2/3 of the area, so I had to mix another 8 oz. batch to finish it up. About 20 oz. total for one coat. Then it looked like this...

Image

And this....

Image

Oh yeah :!: This is going to work out really nice. The first coat is a little splotchy, but 2 more should be just right.

Tip for Dougster, don't open the bag of graphite if there is even the slightest breeze. My shop bench is a mess :!:

If all goes well, I'll get the other 2 coats on tomorrow.

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:06 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
That is one SMOOOOTH Bottom. The BLACKJACK is really looking great. I appreciate getting to see what this should look like before I even get there. Do you have to apply it over primer, or can you do it as the fill of the glass weave???

Robbie

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:28 pm
by plumbertuck
MAN that looks great! slicker than the inside of a goat ! I can't imagine hitting anything harder than a q-tip without wincing ........then maybe opening a cold beverage, having a moment alone..... trying to shake off the trauma of scuffed paint.... a few deep breaths :lol:
looking great Larry, keep it up ! :!:

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Double Dip, it applies just like paint. Roll it on with a foam roller and tip it with a foam brush. I didn't have any trouble with it clumping. It was very friendly to work with, except for the dry powder :roll:

Robbie, no, you don't have to apply it over primer. I just had a little extra primer mixed up and figured it was better on the boat than it was in the bucket. I used Quick Fair to fill the weave. More economical than resin and graphite, I think.

It's not paint, Tuck, it's graphite and epoxy. Much tougher than paint. Based on my previous experiences it won't scuff. Not enough to matter anyway. Build them tough, use them hard and don't worry about it :lol:

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:16 am
by TomW
Looking really good Larry. Can just imagine what you and your work bench looked like after opening that graphite up in a breeze. :lol:

Look forward to tomorrows pics.

Could you please send me some of that stuff that came down from the sky, I don't even know what it is any more I think it starts with r. :cry:

Tom

Graphite

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:36 am
by Deltaskipper
Great looking job. Except for the weather I've been following your posts with a great deal of envy.

Where did you get the Graphite and is it any special kind?

8)

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:32 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all for the comments.

Tom, sorry but the rain went offshore and south. The low will probably become tropical in a few days and come back to visit.

Deltaskipper, I bought the graphite from the good folks who run this site. I think I have enough to cover about 4 boats :doh: 2 pounds was way too much, but at least it is cheap. Here is a link to their page..

http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=13

OK, breaks over, time to get at it again. I want to get 2 coats on today, do not want to have to sand this stuff :wink:

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:31 pm
by Dougster
Boy that looks just great, just the ticket. And yeah, I opened my package of it (bought from this site as well), and it sure is messy. I did it inside though, without much fuss. Put it in a big jar and screwed that top down TIGHT! It mixed easy and rolled on my sample with no problem, but I had some little air bubbles from mixing that cured in. Didn't tip with the foam brush, but will next time. Again, that looks great, and I bet its tough. I don't want a boat to be fastidious about.

Still fussing with the frames Dougster.

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:57 pm
by timoub007
Larry,

It is looking good. I've been chipping away at mine and hope to show some progress soon. I can't wait to flip it back over (again) and get the epoxy and graphite on the hull. That looks so sick!

Hope the other two coats went well today.

Happy Labor Day,
T

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tim. We got the other 2 coats on today, but I'm not real pleased with them. I had a couple of technical problems. Starting with bugs.

When I got started this morning, I found a plethora of various bugs glued to the hull from yesterday evenings session. And footprints, and wing prints of same. :cry: So we picked up a handy piece of 80 grit paper and sanded all the petrified bug parts, by hand.

Wiped the bottom clean and put on another coat of graphite, which then showed every scratch mark from the 80 grit 8O Should have used a finer paper :!:

Let that set up and put on another coat. Scratch marks still show through, but not as bad.

Then the wind picked up and gave us a nice dusting of assorted plant parts.

I'm not sure now whether to sand it all again (with fine paper) and give it another coat, or just say the heck with it.

I've got a feeling I'm going to be sanding. Dang it, it was perfect and I messed it up. Oh well, could be worse. This is what she looks like now. Not bad, but not great either...

Image

Image

Sam has been helping today too, by tipping epoxy with his tail. I should have checked my horoscope or something before we got busy today :doh: Might should have gone fishing. :)

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:14 pm
by timoub007
LOL.

Looks good from where I'm sitting. It looks like you coated the shoe and all on the skeg too, yes? I now know to do mine when the bugs aren't too thick.

I had to fire up the Thermocell this evening while working in the garage. The skeeters are getting bad with all the rain we've been getting. Those Thermocells work great though! It is funny to see the skeeters fall out of the air and lay on the deck or floor like they're drunk. Of course some always fall in the wet epoxy.

Check the stars tomorrow and go fishin' if the weather is right. We had an awesome trip Saturday morning. Specks were hitting topwater until almost noon. :D

T

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:25 am
by TomW
Larry, sounds like ya should a gone fishing. How tall is that breezeway, can you get some cheap 4mil 10 or 12' wide plastic at Lowe's or Home Depot and cover it. Justa tack it up so you can take it down and fold it up, so you can use it for your main paint and interior paint.

Just a thought. As I recall 50 or 100 ft rolls of 4 mill are not that bad $ wise. An electric staple gun makes fast work of putting it up. Weight the edges down so it doesn't blow against the boat. Just what you need right.

Tom

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, that's exactly what I was thinking of doing. The plastic is cheap, no problem there, but right now I couldn't stand the heat. Just going to have to wait for cooler weather to do any finish painting, and seal myself inside.

Tim, those Thermacells are great, aren't they :!: They work better than anything I've ever used for mosquitoes. My bug collection was like Noah's Ark, 2 of every species :D

Sounds like some great trout fishing. That's what I should have done :doh:

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:59 pm
by Deedaddy
Sorry to hear about you being Bugged. It is always a problem in the south. I have used an old furnace blower to exhaust from a plastic tent with a section of screen in one wall. We have that problem even when painting the big yachts. Fast setting paint and a group of bug pickers with tweezers is the usually answer. To bad there is no bug repellent that can mix with the paint. :lol:

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've got an old squirrel cage blower, I might could rig up. Probably better to wait for better weather though. Most paints don't like 90+ temps and 90+ humidity anyway. The big mistake I made with the bugs was applying the epoxy in late afternoon. It didn't dry until well after dark. Another lesson, finish coats should be applied at midday. And standby with bug tweezers. And use a faster hardener so the won't have as much time to accumulate. Yep, need to order some faster hardener.

I also have a friend who owns a paint booth. I might just see how good of a friend he is :wink:

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:15 am
by TomW
Larry you just have to get up earlier I mean come on the sun rises about 6. You could have a layer of graphite on by 8 and be out of the tent before the bugs wake up. :lol: THEN GO FISHING

Tom

PS I owe you for this one

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
I get up at 6 every day, but the bugs get up real early down here, Tom. Sunrise and sunset are the worst times of day for bugs. Or anytime after dark if lights are on.

You on the other hand must sleep until noon :P Because most of your posting is done at 0300 :D

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
I peeled off the plastic and masking tape this evening. I was worried about leaving the tape on too long, especially with that black in the afternoon sun. It came off great and left a very smooth line, not needing much of the razor blade to coerce it to release. Very pleased with that. I usually don't have good luck with masking tape.

Last night I read an article on finishing, in the new Wooden Boats magazine. It had a great sentence that I resemble.....

"The closer you get to a perfect finish, the more elusive it will be". :D

So I guess I'm in good company :D

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:02 pm
by Dougster
From here you look pretty darn close already. It's a great look and I bet a lot of folks are interested in doing the same thing (well, not the bugs part). I get a funny image of you hovering over the hull with tweezers and Captain Sam nearby :)

Sayin' every picture tells a story don't it Dougster

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:18 am
by ks8
The tweezers in the Swiss army pocket knife were perfect for picking bugs off my CB and rudder... yep... I lost the toothpick awhile ago... :)

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:35 am
by Deedaddy
Cracker Larry wrote:

"The closer you get to a perfect finish, the more elusive it will be". :D

So I guess I'm in good company :D


I have good news for you Larry. The older you get the better it will look....or maybe you just don't see the defects :lol: . Well what ever it works good for me. :lol:

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:16 am
by gk108
I had problems with bugs, too. I used a shop vac to pull most of them off without disturbing the resin too much. After the resin started to kick good I'd just leave them and clean them off before the next coat. It's the ones that start walking before you catch them that are the most trouble. They leave tracks ~~~~~~~~~~~* :?

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:03 pm
by TomW
Deedaddy wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote:

"The closer you get to a perfect finish, the more elusive it will be". :D

So I guess I'm in good company :D


I have good news for you Larry. The older you get the better it will look....or maybe you just don't see the defects :lol: . Well what ever it works good for me. :lol:
Deedaddy/Larry, yep the glasses get thicker the runs look smaller and it just looks better! :lol:

Tom

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
GK, a shop vac with wet resin?:doh: Maybe so, never thought of that. I can tell you have first hand experience, by your excellent representation of bug tracks. They look just like mine :lol:

I'm going to sand it again. I just can't let it rest. 55 years young, but I can see it, so I'm going to try, one more time, to fix it :D The bugs really were not the problem. I could have fixed that. The problem was using too coarse of sandpaper, after I had previously sanded it down to 150. It's the scratches that bother me :| They got to go.

Thanks for all encouragement :D

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:45 pm
by TomW
Didn't realize it was the scratches what a bummer. :cry: Good luck and maybe take it down to 220 or even 320 as long as epoxy has something to grip.

Tom

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:46 pm
by ks8
If you are sanding in order to apply a final layer of epoxy or epoxy/graphite (that's what it looks like), 120 will be plenty smooth, even 100, but 100 will be marginal with having its grooves filled if you brush on a very thin final layer. 120 will give a good grip and should have all 120 grooves filled by epoxy. Even 150 might be alright, if you change the paper often, but I begin to feel uneasy with the amount of grip 150 gives an epoxy bottom coat, when 120 would be better. Polyurethane topcoats can take a couple of coats to fill 120, even 150 grooves, but I think you're only doing epoxy under there, eh? If you are not applying a final layer, but only sanding out *imperfections* :lol:, then sure, go 220, and then the wet sand game at 320, 400, and however crazy you want to go, but if you are sanding for a final coat of any sort of epoxy blend, I'd question the grip 320 would give to a final coat of epoxy, or even topcoat... but sorry... I'm butting in without reading all the background first. It's late. My left eye began to twitch at the thought of a layer of epoxy applied over a 320 sanding, that's all..... :?

I'm going to shock my system and get to sleep before midnight. :lol:

Have a Groovy time sanding... 8)

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:00 am
by TomW
P.S. Forgot to tell you to get a fan to blow the dust away. :lol:

320 will work okay, stop at 220 it you have any question or back sand lightly with old 150 discs and make sure you get all the dust off.

One other trick you probably know make sure you get the dust off between changing grits other wise you are sanding with the broken off peices from the previous sand paper.

Good luck guy, I feel for you having to sand that graphite.

Tom

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:45 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Is the graphite going to interfere with the sonar units ability to send a signal through the hull? I have thought about this and I do not have enough knowledge about how the transducer works to know if it will make a difference. I am to the point that if I am going to use a thru hull transducer, I need to make a "window" before I flip and glass the hull. any ideas or opinions.

Thanks,

Robbie

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:32 am
by saltponder
Larry,
Get hold of yourself. You are worried about scratches on the bottom of the hull? :lol: Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the part of the boat you will never see again, once you flip it? Don't even think about what it will look like the first time you go crabbing or cast netting in a small creek filled with oyster rakes on a falling tide.
Gil

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:41 am
by Cracker Larry
Gil, it's not so much the bottom I'm worried about, it's the chine panels from the bottom to the boot line, which are very visable.

Robbie, no the graphite won't affect the transducer. It transmits sound waves thru the hull, not electrical energy.

Tom, the fan is a good idea.

KS, I think you're right, 150 is fine for epoxy/graphite. 80 was not :help:

OK, I did it, got er done, and it wasn't so bad :) Thinking about it was worse than actually doing it. We had a little thunderstorm yesterday evening, which cooled things down and provided a strong breeze, so I fired up the sander and got to it. First I went over it with 120, then again with 150, staying upwind of the sander. All the scratches and bugs are gone. The chine panels I sanded perfectly smooth, the bottom not quite so perfect, but plenty good enough. It only took about an hour.

After I finished sanding, I washed the hull down again, perfectly clean. Then I had to wash me. The graphite doesn't just rinse off, it took a good scrubbing with Go-Jo to get it out of my skin.

It was dark when I finished, so no pictures yet. This morning I will mask it and give it another coat or 2 of graphite. Then we will stand by with tweezers and remove bugs as they land. :roll: Maybe it will work out this time.

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:26 am
by TomW
All right Larry. Tweeser fast :!:

Tom

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:27 am
by Dougster
If I lived nearby I'd volunteer for tweezer patrol :)

Not a skeered of them bugs Dougster

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:11 am
by Deedaddy
Where Larry lives the bugs will do one of two options: Eat him there or take him with them... :lol: Just don't let the blood get on the boat Larry.
Just kidding....it gets just as bad here.

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:48 am
by PastorBob
I know this is a little late (all CPU's down right now) BUT I have a great trick.... you can effectlivly wet sand with your electric RO.... just use a fine mist spray bottle and keep the area where you are sanding damp... I do this often becouse I do not like breathing marine paint dust, or 70 year old half roten mahogony (it chokes me up for a week)... Still on the same Dewalt sander I bought this spring and I use it about 4 hrs per day.... as long as you don't go overboard with the spray no problem....

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:23 pm
by saltponder
Larry,
I wonder if you used a couple of thermocells in the vicinity next time whether it would keep the bugs away.
Gil

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, we had a beautiful day and the bugs weren't too bad. I did put out 2 Thermacells, Gil and they certainly helped.

Got 2 coats rolled on and they are spectacular 8) even if I do say so myself :P

Here's a shot of where we ended yesterday, with the sanding finished..

Image

Then I masked it all off again, curling up a bottom layer of tape to form a drip gutter all around. Much easier than plastic or paper I think...

Image

Rolled on 1 thin coat at 0900, then guarded it vigilantly with tweezers and beer until it set up. The rolled on another one at 1200, and stood by again for a few hours, tweezers at ready. We had about 50 trespassers that were immediately evicted.

This is how it looks now...

Image

And I am much happier about the results:D No bugs, no runs, no scratches, nothing but pretty. There, that's the way it's supposed to look :wink:

Image

Bottom is finished, except for Tom's zinc which I'll install tomorrow. Pool time now:D

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Oh yeah, I wanted to thank everybody for their suggestions. Most of them helped :D

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:24 pm
by asweany
Larry, Looks great! Where's Sam? Beer run? Asweany in KC

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:41 pm
by Dougster
Hey, wait a minute, I didn't know beer went with the tweezers. I'd have driven up for that! Good going, I never posted the thought cuz I knew you were gonna do it, but my notion was, hell, fix it, cuz you can and it will make you feel good. Great work, it's an inspiration.

Never had beer with tweezers before but thinks he'd like it Dougster

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dougster, that's right. I had to fix it because I knew I could do better than that. Bug guarding is very thirsty work BTW :wink:

Asweany, Sam is still in summer hibernation. He comes outside, checks on things, hikes a leg and goes back inside to the air conditioning. He's ready for fall.

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:07 pm
by Knottybuoyz
Cracker Larry wrote:Asweany, Sam is still in summer hibernation. He comes outside, checks on things, hikes a leg and goes back inside to the air conditioning.
Smart doggie!

Looking good Larry. Flipping it soon?

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Just as soon as she hardens up for a couple of days.

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:37 am
by TomW
Very nicely done. You can now stand proud at the yardarm or whatever and know you did your best. Tweesering can be thirsty work :wink: and a dip in the pool a well deserved reward.

Glad to hear it's done to your standards and look forward to the flip.

Congrats. :D

Tom

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:12 am
by timoub007
Looks awesome Larry! Quality as usual from the Cracker. ;)

I got mine flipped over with a little help from the neighbor yesterday, so these graphite pics are inspiring.

A question or two. I was looking at the chine, where the bottom trasitions into the slanted panel. Is this still a radius? I'm going to square my transom edge off, but don't plan on squaring my chine at any point. I'm scratching my head on where to end my graphite. I am not going to bring it up to the spray rail, only on the bottom. I wonder what it will look like if I attemp to mask down the middle of the radius'd chine. It is either that or I'll graphite the chine and an inch or so above it. Your thoughts?

Thanks, and Congrats on the excellent finish.

Tim

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:13 am
by msujmccorm
Looks great Larry.
You sure get alot done in short amount of time.

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tim, I left a radius where the chine panels meet the bottom. I only squared it off at the transom, both at the bottom and chine panel joints.

I think I'd go above the chine with it, maybe 2" at the stern and ending about the bow deck frame.

As promised Tom, here is our zinc :D

Image

And a close-up. I had to make this to fit, from a longer piece of zinc bar. I cut it to size, drilled and counter sunk the bolt hole, ground the tapers, and threaded the aluminum shoe to 1/4-20 machine thread. Then filed off the epoxy where the zinc mounts on the aluminum, for a good electrical connection.

Image

I've also been working on some final fairing of the topside panels, and started getting things ready for the flip.

Pulled out the building frame and attached 2X4s on edge to support the hull under the stringers, and at other places. Covered the 2X4s with some carpet scraps, so I don't mess things up :!:

Image

The 2X4s had to be on edge to allow clearance for the skeg.

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:14 pm
by TomW
That should do the job after the oysters scrape the graphite off the aluminum.

Nice frame work. Looks like your set for the next step.

Tom

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:46 pm
by timoub007
Cool Larry. That shot from far off really shows how the graphite tapers as it goes towards the bow.

I'm only going to coat the bottom up to about the bow deck frame anyway. That is where I camo'd down to since it is just about always out of the water. I'll have to mask that off and see what it looks like. Sounds like a good plan though. I'm also going to graphite coat the entire transom, so I'll have to figure out a clean break point where the transom rolls into the side panels.

Thanks, and looking great as usual.
T

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:25 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks great Larry

I am ready to get that on my bottom but the love bugs have graced us with their presence so I am at a stand still at everything but sanding. I really don't have much of that to do so I have been working on the trailer.

Keep us droolin

Huck

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:23 pm
by gk108
Beautiful! You're making great progress. I turn my back for a few days and now you're ready to flip. :D
I had to battle the love bugs last year. That's when I used the shop vac the most, just the hose with no nozzle to pull the bugs off. Just moved the hose closer to the bug until it pulled off of the resin. A steady hand and hold the hose at an angle so it won't grab and pull down suddenly. I used a nozzle and tried to get them when they were on the wing, zeroing in on a landing, whenever I could. Probably looked like a fool waving that thing around. :oops:

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:30 pm
by ks8
Slick! :)

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone. I'm real happy with it. So what if it took me weeks to do it right.:D It would be hard for me to make a living building boats, even though I'd like too.


Probably looked like a fool waving that thing around. Embarassed
LMAO :lol: Whatever works GK. You're talking to someone who spent all day Saturday chasing bugs with tweezers, then made fun of someone for watching football :doh:

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:53 pm
by Deedaddy
Cracker Larry wrote:Thanks everyone. I'm real happy with it. So what if it took me weeks to do it right.:D It would be hard for me to make a living building boats, even though I'd like too.


Probably looked like a fool waving that thing around. Embarassed
LMAO :lol: Whatever works GK. You're talking to someone who spent all day Saturday chasing bugs with tweezers, then made fun of someone for watching football :doh:
Well Larry You can add bug tweezer to your resume. There are alot of opennings at the yacht shop on finish paint days. Lots of surface on a 60 footer. :lol:

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:18 pm
by gk108
Cracker Larry wrote: then made fun of someone for watching football
I wholeheartedly encourage football watching or anything else that wears out your remote control. 8)

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:39 pm
by robbiro
Depends on Who is playing :!:
Larry, "Blackjack" is really looking good. I am getting many ideas on what I need to do when "First Light" gets ready to flip. I am also going to use graphite on the bottom and I have enjoyed the discourse that has been going on especially that with Tim (TX) since it is the same boat that I am trying to finish!!!!!!!???_
I thought that I would get the back deck glued down this past weekend, but other things prevailed and I realized that I still did not have a place to put the discharge for the bilge pump fixed yet, so that was finished tonight. will be unavailable for the next couple of work nights, so that leaves Thursday to try and glue.
Keep up the GREAT WORK. You inspire me to want to do better work than I have so far, I hope what I read will push me a little harder.

Keep On Buildin"

Robbie

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
There are alot of openings at the yacht shop on finish paint days. Lots of surface on a 60 footer.
Been there, done that. The work's too hard. The pay is too low. The only good thing is you get to step on some nice boats once in a while. No, I'm not picking bugs for tourists. Well, not this week anyway. You never know what next week will bring, so at least I'm qualified if necessary.
Depends on Who is playing Exclamation

Robbie, no not to me. I don't care who's playing and usually don't even know who's playing, unless somebody says something about it. Then I know and I still don't care. I just don't do TV. I'd rather go fishing in a cold rain than watch football in front of a fire. And I hate cold :lol:

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's been a slow week for boat work. Spent most of the week out of town on business, but got a little done this weekend.

I worked out my lifting system. Lifted the boat and slid the finished cradle under her and moved her forward a few feet. Love my chain falls :!:

This is what she will sit on when I flip her. I've got the flip figured out, I can do it by myself with the chain hoists and the skinning winch.

The biggest accomplishment is that I finished fairing and sanding the topsides. It has been wet sanded down to 150 and now it will get 2 more coats of primer. I bought an assortment of 3M sanding sponges and have been hand sanding with water to try for perfection. This is nice work, no dust, plenty of cool water to splash in, good results.

I've got more S3 primer on order, expecting it tomorrow. 2 more coats and flip.

There is a LOT of work to do inside :help: May be finished by spring. Maybe not :doh:

Image

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
We've had a great change of weather this week and I've been home more, so we finished up the primer :D

Sam decided it was fall, and he helped me with the last 2 coats. Now we've got tail marks in the primer, and primer marks in the tail, but it's all good.

We've got 4 coats of primer on now, sanding and fairing between coats, but mostly sanded the first 2 off :?
I guess that's how it supposed to work, or maybe it's just a system designed to sell sandpaper, fairing compound and primer :doh: I followed the instructions, anyway.

The bow looks like this..

Image

And the starboard side looks like this...

Image

We think it's as fair and smooth as I can possibly make it, working outside with the wind and bugs, so we're calling it good enough. She's ready for that Fox Orange to follow :D

Port side looks like this...

Image

Sam is real happy the weather cooled off. Another tropical storm trying to form off the coast though.

We're going to flip it Saturday morning, if not before, and get started on the inside. Can't wait. Getting tired of sanding and fairing, ready to move on :D

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:28 pm
by dbldipper1
Looking good Larry, Sam must be a good supervisor, he looks pleased with the results.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you :)

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:14 pm
by cottontop
Larry, "Blackjack" looks great. When I built "EZMorning", living in Florida, I had to paint late at night or eaaaarly in the morning to avoid those pesky little black bugs. Like you, the water sanding really made the difference in the finish. Keep going, it won't be long now. Cottontop 8)

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:37 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Going back to another thought that we ran through further up the page concerning the idiot box that sucks some of us in way too much! Since I have contracted BBV I have not turned the blessed thing on nearly as much, in fact almost not at all unless it was a very special program even to catch the news. This I guess says that I have changed vices and I like the new one a lot better than the old one. I don't worry that the kids learn about things in too big a hurry other than how things are built and I don't get as upset by the things I learn that I didn't need to know anyway.
Good to see Capt. Sam back on deck and looking his usual dapper self. Give him some extra kibble and a good scratch behind the ear from us :D
BLACKJACK is really looking good and I have learned much more watching your progression than just hearing ideas put out, Thank You :!:

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Should turn FIRST LIGHT tomorrow or Sunday. 8O

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Robbie :!: Those are kinder comments than I deserve. One never knows when they may have influence on someone else :D I am honored by the opportunity.

Sam is doing great! Wait until you see what we got done today 8O

We took pictures too :wink: What's up with your camera anyway?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got home early today and Sam and I decided we could flip this thing ourself, so we made a go of it. Most of my friends work on Fridays, and I was too impatient to wait for tomorrow :roll:

We rigged lifting straps to the under side of the strongback, and positioned some old tires covered in towels for protection. A tarp for more protection (from chain hoist grease mostly).

Image

Using both chain hoists, with straps to all 4 frames, we slowly eased her up onto the padded tires..

Image

The tricky part was getting over the hump. We had to reposition the straps a couple of times, using the skinning rack hoist to temporarily carry the weight.

Image

With a little maneuvering, tire re-positioning, and strap re-positioning, we got it right side up without a scuff mark :D

Image

Then we got the cradle positioned and set her in her new spot. She will live here for a few months..

Image

Now we're going to relax, and beer won't handle this job. A double Wild Turkey is in order, while we contemplate tomorrows tasks :D

Image

Which will be to strip the inside and make her look like a boat. I'm looking forward to this stage :!:

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Did I say we didn't put a mark on her :?: :!:

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, "Blackjack" looks great. When I built "EZMorning", living in Florida, I had to paint late at night or eaaaarly in the morning to avoid those pesky little black bugs. Like you, the water sanding really made the difference in the finish. Keep going, it won't be long now. Cottontop
Thanks Cottontop, I appreciate it :D I'm really glad I got the last primer coat on yesterday, because today the Love Bugs arrived by the thousands. No way would it have worked out today. Must be living right for a change :D

I've become a believer in wet sanding. It is so much more pleasant and gives better results 8)

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got her stripped down to her backbone this morning. All stitches out, all frames out. Time to build her from the bottom up. This is going to be fun. Sure have got a lot of work to do :!:


Image

A big thunderstorm came up again, had to knock off for a while :(

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:21 pm
by colonialc19
Cracker, boat is comming along nicely, I like the solo flip job, looks like it all went well. I sure hope I can get my hull as fair as Blackjack, that thing is slick. I've been watchin and reading, learned alot from your thread, Great work!
Daniel

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Daniel :!: I'm learning a lot of this as I go along.

The flip was easy. I spent a while thinking about it, put on an extra coat of primer while I was working up my nerve, got myself organized, and did it in about 30 minutes. :D

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:33 pm
by Deedaddy
Nice work. :) I know about working alone. Most of the time I have to do things alone. I like your setup. I may use something like that to roll my skiff.

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:36 pm
by gk108
Beautiful! Looks like you have 18 feet of possibilities there. :D

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:21 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks great Larry! Hopefully I can get my next one fairer. Yours is a good standard to work to. Love the flip. Love those OD's, too. They are still my all time favorite here.

Huck

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Don, GK, Huck. I appreciate it.

That's why I picked this one to build, Huck, I thought it looked the best 8)

I'm not working alone though Don, I've got Sam to keep me out of real trouble.

GK, it's all those possibilities that has brought me to a halt. :doh: Now I have a lot of decisions to make before I can proceed. Such as fuel tankage, location (s), battery locations, plumbing for all systems, bait tanks, exact console size and location, steering cable routing, electrical routing, motor well, etc.

The fuel tanks are giving me the most puzzle right now. Should I put them/it forward, between the stringers flat on the bottom and raise the sole around it, or build the sole first and then mount the tank, and build a deck over it? If between the stringers I'm limited to a 16" width and a 42" length. Above the sole removes those limits.

I need a range of 200 miles, so about 50 gallons of fuel. Hard to get this in one (factory) tank that will fit anywhere gracefully, so I will probably need 2 tanks. I know this is a lot, but that's how much I want. At least.

So maybe I'll use two 24 gal. saddle tanks along each side, but the factory tanks require 8" at the top and I didn't really want the side decks that wide. So maybe I'll have some custom built :doh:

Don't really want a tank in the center console, but might have to settle for 1?

I've got to answer most of these questions before we do any sole framing.

So instead of worrying about it, Sam and I went shrimping in the Gf16. We did real good, caught a limit in short order, very nice shrimp, about 30 count, went for a swim, twice. It's still HOT. 92 degrees on the first day of fall, same on the second. Hard to keep Sam in the boat.

Came home, washed the boat, washed the gear, cleaned the shrimp, cleaned Sam, cleaned me, went swimming again...no decisions came to me, so I'm waiting for a revelation.....maybe I'll go back out in the river tomorrow :?: No need to work without a plan.

Image

I'm open for any suggestions about fuel tanks right now. :)

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:35 pm
by kylbak
Larry,
The boat looks awesome so far! I'm not sure I can help with fuel tank suggestions...but, and I'm not trying to talk you out of a 200+mile range, I think you're overestimating your fuel burn. What motor are you planning on using? If it were me, I'd be looking at 50hp or so. I think even the old-technology 50hp 2-strokes are going to be hard-pressed to burn more than 6gph at FULL throttle, with cruise speed being more like 4-5gph. A 4-stroke is going to do even better. Anyway, my point is, with a 4-stroke and cruising around 20mph I'd guess a burn of 3-4gph. These #'s are pretty conservative too. Take a look at this:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/prod ... f50tlr.pdf

Boat is a flat-bottom, appears nearly identical in size and weight to an OD18. 50 gals gas would give this boat a nearly 400 mile range at cruise! 8O I don't know, just throwing it out there, something to think about...

Kyle

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:56 pm
by Deedaddy
A custom tank is always a good way to go.

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:02 pm
by timoub007
Hey Larry,

It really is looking great as all others have said.

As for that tankage issue, I like the saddle tank idea if you determine you really need that much fuel. I sort of agree with what Kyle posted though. As I'm sure you know, an outboard will burn about 10% of its rated horsepower in fuel at WFO. So if you stick to a 50-70 hp you'd be about 6 gph at WFO. Say that top speed is 36 mph (probably conservative given your super fair hull, and you're looking at 6 mpg instead of the 4 it sounds like you were figuring on. That would reduce the 48 gallons you though you needed down to 35 +/- and that might fit in the space along the keel below the sole.

I like below deck tanks that are forward of the COG. I also like to mount the batt(s) in the center console if you're going to make room for it/them. Livewells/Baitwells should be kept aft to prevent from killing all the bait.

I like large, raised decks myself, and I know you're agile and would use them too since you still throw a net from the deck of your GF-16. Of course it all depends on how you plan to fish out of the OD. I fish with a lot of lures currently, but see myself going back to bumping bait with the kiddos on the way. Priorities change through time.

I'm sure you knew everything I just typed, but maybe it will help someone else that is checking out your build post.

Let me know if I can help confuse you any more. :lol:

T

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everybody. Keep tossing ideas. Make me think.

Boat is a flat-bottom, appears nearly identical in size and weight to an OD18. 50 gals gas would give this boat a nearly 400 mile range at cruise!
That would be about right, if weather was perfect and you could cruise at 30+ mph. These would be offshore miles though, and offshore conditions seldom allow running much over 15-20 knots in most hulls. If the weather gets bad, figure on 8-12. Sometimes you spend all day running uphill and it burns a lot of fuel. Some days you're offshore and have to tow someone home. Some days you may have to make an alternate port.

Let me clarify, I need a 200 mile range in any normal sea condition. With some reserve :wink: There probably isn't 1 day out of 30 that a flat bottom boat could run 30 mph offshore.

The engine will be at least a 75. Possibly a 90.

So at cruise rpm, it will burn about 6 gph. Give or take. 50 gallons would allow 8.3 hours of running. At 20 mph that will get me 166.6 miles. At 5 gph and 15 knots, 50 gallons would only last 10 hours and 150 miles. If weather requires a lower speed the consumption will get steadily worse.

I think 50 gallons would be the minimum necessary amount. Just got to figure out where to put it.

Bait will go in the stern, not fuel :)

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:31 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Larry

I like the idea of BIG tanks. I hate the fact that I was only able to get a 20gal on my boat. Just B/C they are there doesn't mean you have to fill them up. The idea is to have it there for when you need it. Then there will be no regrets.

Huck

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:07 am
by Cracker Larry
My thoughts exactly, Huck. You don't have to fill them up, but you have it available when you're ready for the Bahama trip.

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:00 am
by gunner
I recall seeing a bow shaped tank on line last year in the 25 gallon range. I like that directly in the bow on a flat bpttom hull with an infloor second tank for the rest of the capacity. Just my thoughts. It is how my FS 17 will likley be set up as well.

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:15 am
by Bayport_Bob
50 gallons @ 6 lbs/gal= 300 #
75 or 90 hp engine = 350#
2 people, gear, ice, etc. = 600#
Boat hull = 650#

Total = 1900#

DWL = 1630 # @ 5", & 322#/in PPI

At a light load with full fuel, you'll be close to an inch below the DWL.

You may need to make allowances for the added fuel if you're planning on a self bailing cockpit.

Just a thought. - Bob

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:11 am
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:My thoughts exactly, Huck. You don't have to fill them up, but you have it available when you're ready for the Bahama trip.
And for the Bahama trip, you also need room for that *more than sufficient* floatation foam, and the extended VHF antenna mast. A large tank will take up space that will no longer be able to be foam. As long as there is still plenty of foam, or some other self inflating floatation device (like Evil_D had), Bahama sounds like an exciting trip. Terry told me about a wave he had to *tunnel through* on the way. A big wave. Lots of water all around and *over* him and his OD as he went *through* it. I think he had emergency inflatable floatation in his bow area. Just a thought, knowing already that you have plenty of experience yourself. 8)

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:07 am
by saltponder
At one time it was a popularly held belief that it was better to keep a tank full rather than half full, etc. because of the air space causing accelerated fuel breakdown and contamination by water from the humidity. (Probably a myth started by BP. ) I never seemed to have water problems with my 51 gallon tank in my Seacraft and during the winter it would sometimes be 2/3 full or less for several months. However, it was shed stored. On the flip side, ethanol in fuel is hygroscopic and product life is considered to be shorter even without regard to the hygroscopic effects of ethanol. So now, if you keep a full fuel tank which is not sufficiently used, the fuel deteriorates, and if you consistently not fill it up, there is the real or imagined problem with water. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If possible, regardless of the size you chose, it would probably be a good idea to have a tank that could be easily drained or pumped with this new age fuel.
Gil

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:04 pm
by gk108
Lots of ways to go with fuel, but which one is right for you? Just me here, but I'd have 2 tanks up front between the stringers. The front one could be tall enough to sit under a slightly raised front deck. Don't want the deck too high so it won't be easy to fall out. The rear tank could be almost as tall as the stringers and all of its fill and vent stuff at the very front where it would have clearance under the raised deck, the rest of the tank being under the cockpit sole.
Fuel fills could depend on the float plan. Inshore, you could just always top off the empty tank when you return so you'll always have a full tank and a partial tank. Empty the partial tank first, then switch to the full one. For the Bahama trip, use the rule of thirds like cave divers do with air. One third for the way out, one third for the way back and one third for emergency. And maybe a couple of 5 gal cans extra.
Fish box forward of the console, because on an ideal day, the weight of the catch will help compensate for the weight of fuel used.
For the console, just remember that flat space in a boat is a rare and valuable commodity. A console reduces the amount of flat space, so regardless of the size, it should perform as many functions as possible. Preferably in the least amount of space. Batteries in the console will cost a lot more in heavy wire to the motor, but it's a good place to put them, especially with the bait well in the back end. A removable panel for the gauges will allow you to cram more into the console because you won't need to allow working room behind them.
My free 2¢ worth. :roll:

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:38 pm
by mecreature
Looks nice Larry.. I like to do things myself too.. good flip job.

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:41 pm
by Oceola
Hi Larry,

Boats looking really good! I know it will be a while, what with all the interior work to do, but I can't wait to see that red topsides color!
As for the Bahama trip...Build the boat with a regular tank between the stringers, then when you're ready to make the crossing mount a 55gal drum with a hand pump in the GF16 and tow it behind...(just kidding, or am I...Hmm?)
Nice weather coming...Less bugs, less sweat dripping in the epoxy, Bow season opens next weekend, Bull Reds are in the surf, and my neck will start swelling soon letting me know I made it through another hot stickey summer.

Frank

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:47 pm
by WobblyLegs
Larry,

Here's my thought about fuel, and I might be completely wrong, but anyway...

Foam the outer compartments as suggested elsewhere. If you can afford it (I know I would question the cost, but still do it) get custom made tanks.

One each for ALL the compartments between the stringers. So I'm guessing here, but that could be four, maybe five tanks. Keep them separate, and independently filled (no flow between them). Each one has it's own fuel line to a fuel 'switch' so you can change which tank the motor is sucking from, while on the move. I'm sure it can be done.

This way, you can fill which ever tank suits your trim for short trips. Middle? Front? Back? Far forward? Custom ballast, sort of...

And you can change the ballast while out on the water...

The bit that I think is important - for short trips you might only have one tank filled, so the others are full of air, and therefore buoyant, so is as good as foam? Yes? No? Water's not going to rush in there if you should capsize...

For really long trips, you're not going to set out in a storm, so if you do hit trouble, it's going to be after an hour or two of fast running, and probably after you've used half your fuel? So, again, your tanks are now half full of air, and buoyant...

Just an idea for you to play with...

Great job on the single-handed flip.

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:19 pm
by asweany
You are a brave sole Cracker. The Bahama's in an OD18? I know the 18 is a great boat (that is why I am building one with help of your tutorial), but I have been in the Gulf Stream with seas approaching 15 to 20 feet. Let me know when you go and I will come to your place and spend my free time with Sam. Art in KC

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:35 pm
by Jerry-rigged
Art:
That bar has been set, the gauntlet throw down, and Cracker is playing catch-up.

Evil_dwarf made the trip a few years ago (several times) in an OD16 8O 8O 8O

What ever happend to the bad midget? He was talking about building a PG25, and kinda dropped off the radar...

Build on, Dude!

Jerry

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
What a lot of good thoughts yall have provided. Every one having validity in it's own right :doh: That's why it's so hard to decide.

Bayport Bob, good point on the PPI. The tanks would almost never be full though, unless they needed to be. I think you are right that the deck would be awash when loaded full with fuel and cruising gear, but it would really cause no more danger than wet feet. The weight of 50 gallons of fuel is the same as the weight of one large person. Not that much, for this boat, but a good thing to test before we hit the Gulf Stream, huh?

Gunner, I've been looking all over for one of those bow shaped tanks. I can find them with a V bottom, but not a flat bottom. That would be a good place for a small tank, if I can find one.

KS, I've made that Bahama trip many times. Been through a few waves. The Gulf Stream is nothing to fool with in a small boat and a north wind. But otherwise usually OK. In good weather, Miami to Bimini would be less than 2 hours. West Palm to Walkers less than 3. Not like a sailboat that would take 12 hours to cross. I've done it in everything from a windsurfer to center consoles to 70' sailboats, shrimp boats and sportfishing boats. And once in a Powered Parachute :lol: Been concerned more than once, too. You can bury a 70 footer out there if you aren't careful. The boat has to shed water. But you can cross it in a canoe if the weather is good.

I think what you are ultimately saying is to keep the tanks above the sole and keep the sole area for foam :?: This is really my biggest question. Do I keep the tanks above the designed sole, or should I lower them between the stringers?

Gil, yeah, the new stuff is not as good as the old. I think it is best now to be able to run a tank nearly dry on a regular basis. I prefer multiple tanks for several reasons. That being one of them. I also use a fuel stabilizer (Stabil) for any gas, other than the daily vehicles. Today's gas is not good.

GK, that's my initial thought too, 2 tanks, forward between the stringers. The bow is so high, a reasonably raised deck should not be an issue. But the stringers are only 5 1/2" tall and no tank will fit that shallow. I don't see any way to do it without raising the deck 6", almost to the console. Which would probably be OK. Maybe a deck in 2 levels, with a step?

I've always tried to use the rule of thirds for fuel. Good advice for everyone. There has to be a safety factor. One never knows what the future holds, and must plan accordingly. Another reason for 50 gallons. And a spare 5 gallon container :wink:
I also lean towards batteries in the console rather than stern.

Thanks, mecreature. Flipping it took more thought than work. :D

Frank, thanks! Man oh man this has been a long hot summer. Thank goodness for better things to come. Fishing and shrimping are both getting great!

Interesting idea about towing the drum, but there may be some issues. I don't think I'll need extra fuel that bad :!:

The thing with the fuel is this. I may make a few Bahama trips, and it's really not very far, but the fuel there is not reliable in quality, and it is very expensive. Twice what it is here, or more. Better to be able to come and go on one tank, unless you are staying a while. If you are staying and fishing around, it may be 100 miles or better between fuel stops.

That aside, from my home port of Savannah, it is a 60 mile run to the Gulf Stream and on good days I will want to head out that way. Our normal offshore fishing grounds we call the snapper banks, is 30 -40 miles offshore, not counting from the dock to the sea bouy, another 12. The closest good offshore fishing will be a 100 mile day, and that's not counting time spent actually fishing/trolling. So the range I need is not really a contention in this debate, just how to achieve it :help:

Tim, thanks. I agree with you that air in a fuel tank is as good as foam. I also prefer the multiple tanks. As Gil said, you don't want a lot of fuel hanging around too long. And they are great for moveable ballast. You can fill them to adjust trim, burn them to adjust trim, keep up with your fuel management better, and possibly isolate a contaminated tank. 4 or 5 tanks may be a little much, too many fills, vents, plumbing, valves, filters, too much. But 2 would certainly be OK.
For really long trips, you're not going to set out in a storm, so if you do hit trouble, it's going to be after an hour or two of fast running, and probably after you've used half your fuel? So, again, your tanks are now half full of air, and buoyant...
That's exactly how to run offshore pleasure boats. You start real heavy, burn fuel and adjust trim as time passes. By the time you run into trouble you are hopefully light. But in commercial fishing boats we usually try to equally replace fuel with fish, to maintain the gross weight throughout the trip. :lol:

Thanks everyone. Keep the cards and letters coming. :!: Ideas are forming..

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
More cards and letters. Thanks!
You are a brave sole Cracker. The Bahama's in an OD18?
Art, No, not brave, nor foolish, way past all that. Miami to Bimini is only about 45 miles. On a decent day, 2 hours running, bar to bar. No problem. On a bad day, we'll just stay at the one bar or the other :D Once you're there you can make short runs between islands and stay somewhat protected. Seriously, no big deal. Only a matter of picking the weather.

I've been in the Gulf Stream when I wished the waves were only 20 feet. I intend to never do it again. I don't have to do that anymore :D Not going to. But the boat can handle it.

I have some Bahamian friends who spearfish the Abacos out islands, around Grand Cay and Double Breasted Cays, for lobster and turtle. They travel over 100 miles to Nassau, one way, to sell their catch. They have a 13' boat about 100 years old, with a 6 hp. Johnson that's about half that age. It also has a cat rigged sail. They use mortar mix and cement to patch leaks. One man bails while one handles the boat. They make the 200 miles round trip every day or 3, after freediving the offshore side of the islands for lobster, where the sea is often 15 or 20' and breaking over the reefs. They load the boat until it barely floats, and head for Nassau. Pretty good boatmen. I've got some pictures, will dig them up.

Jerry, not. What did happen to EvilD? He had a nice OD16. That was his saying, wasn't it?

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:00 pm
by keysrat
I agree with Larry. Pick your weather carefully and you can make this crossing quite safely.
I once made the crossing ages ago in a 16'6" Seasquirt, quite by accident. I had been chasing schools of dolphin on a mild day. I saw Bimini and realized that I had gotten a "little" farther out than I thought. I figured it would be smart to run in to fuel up.
I make this crossing 4-6 times per summer. The fuel situation is much improved. Buy your fuel at Blue Waters or the Big Game Club. We try to bring extra fuel, strapping 6 gallon tanks across the dive platform. Cat Cay farther south also has good fuel.
We stay at the Seacrest, but berth the boat at Weech's. The Big Game Club flooded badly during the last bad hurricane and the rooms smell like mildew and Pinesol.
Bimini night life isn't the same since the Compleat Angler burned down.
Once you get to Bimini, it isn't difficult to reach other islands as you are crossing the Bahama Bank, which is somewhat protected. 70 miles to Chub Cay, 80 mile to Great Harbor.
In 2005, we had to return to South Florida through Tropical Depression Ophelia. We were on my buddy Swift Boat Steve's 34 ft go fast with two other guys, one of which had brought along his girlfriend and her two bimbo friends.
We were in a broaching sea the whole time. Steve dropped the hammer on the throttles and off we went. He was riding the trailing edge of the waves and would pop over them before they crested. I thought we would stuff the bow for sure, but Steve is a good skipper. We made back in less than 2 hours in 15 foot seas. Miserable trip back.
I don't think i woulda tried it in the Seasquirt.

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:56 pm
by ks8
Looks like we need another thread called: Gulf Stream, the Biminis and the Bahamas, making the crossing! :lol: 8)

But back to the OD... looking great Larry! :)

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
We can use some of my bandwidth, until they cut us off :lol:

I'm really going to miss the Compleat Angler. I was there last in 2002. Glad I took this picture. One of the alltime best waterfront bars of the islands. Just ask Hemingway. I've got stories from there I can't tell anyone :wink:

Image

We usually stay here..

Image

I do love the islands :!:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
David (VMan77) has been working relentlessly on my hull graphics. We have finally nailed it down, thank to his abilities and enthusiasm :D. And my pirate attitude. Just trying to get the sizing perfect now.

This will be resized a little bit, but imagine it over red, and in color. With some detail.

I can't thank David enough for his help with this :!: It's going to look great :!:

If you need hull graphics, David is the MAN :!:


Image

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:18 pm
by Vman777
Thanks Larry for all the great compliments, I really appreciate it. :D

Larry, if you want I can post what it will look like (just the graphics on red), & or with or with out the stripes (the hull picture).

David

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:26 pm
by asweany
Aye Cracker, a mighty fine graphic matey!!

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:32 pm
by Daddy
Aaaarrrgggh it be a fine design matey !
Daddy

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:17 pm
by rjezuit
You guys just missed International talk like a pirate day, it was a few weeks back. (Sept 19th) Rick

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:35 pm
by TomW
Argh Larry just got back from two weeks working on the cabin on the Mississippi in Iowa. Looks like you made some major decions with your steering and etc. Look at RDSaluminum for tanks they can make custom tanks for you.

Love the graphics! Swamp Fox, Black Beard, Captian Jack all in one. With the red the Coast Guard should love you. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Everything looks great you will love the NFS steering system.

I would raise the sole an 1" or so, Jacque never leaves enough freeboard between the waterline and the sole. I have noticed this on several of his designs. It won't affect the CG much. Lucky Louis raised his 3/4". Check for yourself.

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all. David does nice work.

Tom, I was starting to worry about you. Glad you're back. I'm considering raising the sole, 3/4" should be easy.

Will check with RDS, thanks.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
David, feel free to post any pictures you'd like to :D

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:47 pm
by Vman777
This is the Blackjack logo on red for the starboard side, the port side is reversed.
Image

This is the proposed paint scheme.
Image

Official Company Logo & starboard sticker, port is reversed.
Image

David

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:19 pm
by Knottybuoyz
Those look pretty cool Vman & Cracker!

Ya gotta get "QC MGR SAM" somewhere on the company logo though! :P

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Do you mean Sam?

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:46 pm
by asweany
Larry, I read an earlier post from Jacques that said he would either tab or tape the stringers to the bottom if you made them with plywood. Did you do this? Thanks for your help. Asweany

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
No, I haven't taped the stringers yet, but I'm going to. It is on my weekend "to do" list :lol: In hindsight, it would have been a lot easier to do it when I glued them on, but the building notes and lamination schedule didn't call for it, so I didn't do it. :doh:

But then the man said so, so now I must. Some things I wish were spelled out a little clearer, but at least we can ask questions, if we're smart enough to know what to ask.

I spent the weekend cleaning up the inside, grinding off all the temporary tape tabs, spot welds, stitches and stuff. If I'd known how strong they were, and how hard to grind off, I would not have been as exuberent about using so many.

Got it all sanded down on Saturday. Sunday I started filleting and taping the inside seams and got the transom and starboard side all finished. Then went shrimping.

Next weekend the stringers and port side. I hope :D

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:25 pm
by TomW
Larry, forgot to tell you www.rdsaluminum.com is there web site. They have standard aluminum tanks and will make non-standard tanks. They are in Florida so shipping should not be to bad to you.

If you have an idea of the area where you want to put the tank and the height I have a program that will convert to gallons, if this will help.

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:00 pm
by Knottybuoyz
Cracker Larry wrote:Do you mean Sam?
Yeah, duh! Max is my neighbors dog! :oops:

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:38 pm
by rcihard
Larry, been busy for a few weeks and have just caught up with your build. Looks great, very much like the logo and paint theme. Went sailing yesterday on a mates sloop and even dropped the pick and caught half a dozen King George whiting, great day but havn't had the dory in the water for a while.
Your boats looking great, cant wait to see the splash pictures.
Cheers
Richard
PS what happened to the once a day lightning stories???

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the link, Tom. I'll check them out. There are a couple of little fab shops locally that build custom tanks, or about anything else for a usually reasonable price. It's generally less expensive to buy a stock model though, and they seem to have many. I can figure gallons, thanks.

I appreciate it Richard. Does that mean that the King owns the fish? Like Robin Hood's deer :?: Glad you caught some!

I said I could tell a story a day, for 2 weeks, not that I would. I'm going to be around a while yet :wink:

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:22 pm
by TomW
Larry don't know if you want a Mercury 90 but check this out. http://www.smalloutboards.com/merc06.htm

Tom

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Those are great prices, Tom :!: Thanks for that link. I should buy one of those 2 strokes right now while I still can.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:48 pm
by TomW
Knew you liked Mercury's just found that site before I went on vacation.

Tom

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
I can't believe the price of the 50 8O I paid $5,200 for a Merc. 50 in 1992! $1,000 less now.

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:21 pm
by TomW
Yea, quantity and dealer mark ups! Plus remember all the 2 cycles are being deep sixed so these guys are probably acting as a re-wholesaler to get rid of them for dealers and Merc.

Started to write this as I went on Merc's web site and saw that they recommended a 13-13.75 x 22-23 pitch for their 90HP 2cycle motor.

This included the Laser II 3 blade to the HIGHFIVE five blade.

Tom

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:07 pm
by TomW
Larry haven't seen any posts on your boat so assume youv'e been busy or shrimping or fishing. :lol: Anyway on raising your sole youv'e already cut your stringers haven't ya. I'm sure ya already thoght this through but ya'll need to raise the cleats and widen the sole slightly.

Best to ya

Tom

PS: What kind of controls ya going to use I love the Morse MT3 but at 290 they are kind of expensive. But I know they will last.

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:30 pm
by TomW
Larry found these RDS tanks online. Someone here in NC mentioned this site as being in NC. http://www.onlinemarine.com/cgi-local/S ... 1185855211

Gives us an idea on price.

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's another good source link, Tom. thanks :D

Yeah, been working, been shrimping, been fishing, bow hunting, spent all day out today in the GF hunting hogs in the Savannah NWR. Sort of waiting/hoping for some cooler weather. Still hot, and raining almost every day. Shrimping and fishing are great right now, so the OD can wait. This is starting the best time of year for the outdoors.

I plan to put in a day on it tomorrow, unless I go fishing :lol:

I like the Morse controls and have always used them on inboards. Most of my larger outboards have come with factory controls included. I don't mind spending the money for good controls though. It's worth it for them to work smoothly. If they don't, you can easily spend more than $300 ramming into boats around docks, and it's much less embarrasing :oops:

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:32 pm
by TomW
Glad to here your doing fine not working to hard I hope, enjoyin your self, and the 18 will get done in its own time. There''s no rush as you have the 16. It lets you do it right. Right? :D

Ya got thata right no beter time than now than to be in the woods, :D the rain we got last month slowed things down so the trees are just starting to change. Walked down to my water tank today and found some deer tracks within 20' of the house. Then took a walk around the 35 acres. Hogs were rooting over on the west end of my property and found some bear scat on the south end. Popped up 2 male turkeys. Oh well I'll have to wait for the turkeys till spring. Only saw a dozen or so pheasant/partridge, to many bobcats and fox around. :x

Please send me some of that rain. From a rain forest that normally gets 40-50 inches we have had 20 inches. Our spring is down to a half a pencil width from a gallon a minute. :cry: Hope your water level is back up close to normal.

Thanks for your thoughts on the controls. Like you I have always believed in quality, just wanted to know what you might be putting on the 18. I've about settled on a 60 or maybe the Suzuki 70 for the OB17.

Tom

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:03 am
by Betowess
What a great build thread and the boat's looking beautiful. Fun stuff here, especially the part about the 16 year old and the snake in the boat and the "gator" in the water! That cracked me up!

Lots of great build suggestions too. Thanks for sharing!

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks sir, for the good words :D

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:32 am
by Fred in Wisc
If you are shopping Mercury outboards check out Jaco's Marine in Tenessee. They have the 90 Merc 2 stroke listed at under $5400 on their website. Includes the 3 yr warranty and no tax for out of state customers, too.

No personal experience here, but the go-fast bass boat mags have always had nice things to say about Jaco's.

www.jacosmarine.com

Fred in Wisc

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Fred, I'll check it out :D

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:44 pm
by TomW
Larry if I didn't know better I'd think people want you to get that boat in the water. :P

Ps another 80 degree day up herer just beatuiful.

Tom

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
:D Still in the 90s here every day, but supposed to get cooler this weekend. I hope so. Been a long summer.

I've been too busy catching shrimp to do much boat work, but the freezers are about full so I'll get back on it soon.

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:57 pm
by familyman
If your freezer gets too full send the extra down here in tampa. Boat is looking great.

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks familyman, so is yours 8)

I'm a generous and agreeable fellow, but I just can't see myself catching, cleaning, freezing and shipping you shrimp, and washing the boat by myself. It aint likely to happen.

But if you want some, and you bring yourself up here, we'll go catch you some :wink:

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:04 pm
by familyman
Larry:

Thank you for the offer. If that wont work, I do have some halibut or salmon (I just got back from a two week trip to Alaska) that might make it worth your while that is if you are a fan of either one. Let me know.... Otherwise I may be forced to come to your house and learn how to catch shrimp.

Keep up the good work.

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
I do like salmon. Maybe we can work something out :D I've always wanted to go to Alaska, never been.

Fall finally came to the South this morning. It was 93 yesterday and we woke up this morning to 45 8) Clear blue sky and a high of about 75. Beautiful fall day. It's time.

Sam and I felt like doing some boat work, so we finally got the stringers filleted and fiberglassed to the bottom. Another 80' of tape, another half gallon of epoxy, and some wood flour :lol: They were awkward to get at, and it isn't my prettiest work, but they will hold just fine. Sure would have been easier to do this when I built them and glued them to the bottom :wink: Next time, next boat....

Tomorrow we hope to finish the inside seams on the port side, another 80' of tape, 1/2 gallon of epoxy. And then we might even get a frame glassed in place.

I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:01 pm
by Betowess
Cracker Larry wrote:
Sam and I felt like doing some boat work, so we finally got the stringers filleted and fiberglassed to the bottom. Another 80' of tape, another half gallon of epoxy, and some wood flour :lol: They were awkward to get at, and it isn't my prettiest work, but they will hold just fine. Sure would have been easier to do this when I built them and glued them to the bottom :wink: Next time, next boat....
Could you explain this a little? When would you have glued them in permanently? Is this right before one tack welds the frames during initial build?

BTW, if you ever go to SE Alaska, there is a funky little hot spring open to the public in Tennekee Springs. I believe its in Chatham Strait. When the tide is out the springs are about 106F and go down to about 103F when the tide is back up. We use to go there all the time to soak it up after a couple days of openings seining for Salmon. Maybe we went there more for the bar - but together it was a TKO.

But the town was never as much fun after their only hotel/bar burned down. This was in the early/mid '80s.

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Could you explain this a little? When would you have glued them in permanently?
OK. The first thing you build are the stringers. The second thing you build is the bottom, splicing three panels together. The third thing is to glue the stringers to the bottom panel. The scantlings and building notes call for glue only, so that's what I did, and carried onward. Thinking I was finished with them. :? Then Jacques later recommended taping the stringers also, if they were made of laminated plywood. Which mine are. But I already had the sides on before that recommendation came to my attention.

Better late than never. No big deal, should have had the good sense to do it to start with. Once the sole goes on, I hope to never see the stringers again. This should help insure that.

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:24 am
by familyman
Larry: If you give me your information, I will see what I can do about sending some salmon your way. My email is bellsworth@tampabay.rr.com. I have some friends coming in from Kodiak in about two weeks. They are supposed to be bringing more fish with them.

Shame you've never been up there.

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:56 am
by asweany
Larry, I sure am glad you are about a month ahead of me in our projects! I glued my stringers last week and taped them this week. Piece of cake when there are no side panels in the way. Keep up the great work! Asweany

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Glad to save you some back pain Mr. Sweany :D

Familyman, I'm emailing you. Thanks :!:

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Shame you've never been up there.
Yes it is, but when I've got time to travel, I usually go where it's warm :P

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
It was a beautiful weekend and Sam and I got some work done for a change :D

We got the stringers and all longitudinal seams pre-coated, fileted, and taped with 2 layers of biax.

We also got the clamping boards cut and glued in, and an extension to support the lower engine bolts. This will all be glassed over....

Image

Doesn't look like much but it took a long while :doh:

After that we cut all the lower frame parts. I had left all the frames attached to the 2X4 legs which had been attached to the stringers and strong back. The 2X4s make it easy to work with them and keeps them from warping. Makes a handy cutting jig.

Never cut free hand when you can use a guide. This is simple, fast and accurate....

Image


After we cut all the lower frames, we started dry fitting them...

Image

Then we cut all the cleats to fit them. It's easier, more accurate and faster to cut the cleats now I think, than to try and do it after the frames are installed :help: Just took a few minutes to cut them all. They are temporarily clamped to get a final fit.

Image

Like I say, doesn't look like much, but we're tired :)

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Oh, I forgot this one. Sam wanted you to know he was on the job all weekend, but wasn't allowed in the boat :x

Image

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:43 pm
by robbiro
I thought I detected some "ATTITUDE" on the good Captains face. He is a great taskmaster though. Larry, BLACKJACK is really coming along great. I am enjoying the running commentary and the tutorials that I get from following the builds on this forum.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:07 pm
by Dougster
Gee I feel better Larry. I've been clampin' straight edges like that, with those same kinda clamps, 'cuz I just can't do any good free hand. Thought I was cheatin'. Nice weekend in Texas too, and I did some fillet/tape work Sat, in the transom area. It was, even for the Dougster, astonishingly slow work. Glad I'm not on the clock. Took today off on boat buildin'. Back on the clock tomorrow with Monday work blues. Glad to have a job though :) Your work is so much cleaner lookin' than mine; somehow I think it's more than just Sam.

Tapin' those stringers Dougster

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:53 am
by gk108
Larry, if you can, try to work out the chase tubes now, before you tab the frames in. Making the holes for the tubes will be a lot easier. :wink:

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's my plan, GK, good idea I think 8) They would be a lot easier to drill on the drill press, than they will while laying in the bottom of the boat.

That's one reason I'm moving slow. Trying to think everything through and plan it out.

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Robbie and Dougster, thanks for the comments :D

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:10 pm
by TomW
Larry good week end for you, looks good. Agree with GK, plan the tubes now if you can or if you want to wait buy a couple of Forstner bits the proper size later, they will drill a straight hole. Also I like to put my holes in the very top of the frames so I have maximum wood below the tubes for strength.

Tom

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:58 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
That's a lot of great work done, Larry. Those little things take forever and it looks like you've done very little. We all know your pain!

Boat is looking great!

Huck

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Huck! This boat is an awkward size to work with. It's almost to big to lean over it and work inside, but it is a little too small to be able to get inside it very well to work, without getting your hands and feet in wet epoxy somewhere. My back has hurt since I started this thing :help: But I'm going to whip it. The agony of victory, defeat is not an option :!:

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, if you can, try to work out the chase tubes now, before you tab the frames in. Making the holes for the tubes will be a lot easier.
Well GK, it was a good idea. But it won't work. :cry: I did some fiddling with some PVC pipe a while ago, and came to the conclusion that I can't drill before glassing them in, because the holes will interfere with the taping. The highest frame section is only 5 1/2 " tall. A 2 1/2" hole will overlap the tape. I could probably pre-drill the ones for small electrical wiring pipes, but not steering or controls. They will need to be taped in place, and then drilled.

No big deal, I'm always looking for a short cut. Hoping I could just stack all the frames and drill them at one time. Their structural integrity is more important than the wiring chases, so we'll just do it the harder way :lol:

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:47 pm
by gk108
Well, I guess there's always the next boat to try that with. :D

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:48 pm
by TomW
Larry you have me concerned cutting a 2 1/2" hole from a 5 1/2" frame doesn't leave much frame for support of anything. The old standard was no more than 1/3 the frame. You're going nearly 2/3's. Unless I'm missing the boat and the OD's frames are more to support the sole and not for flex, etc. control.

I know the OD's different with a heavier hull and all, so I may be all wet.

Tom

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:52 am
by Fred in Wisc
Tom,

Be careful of that putting chase tube holes off center in the frames or stringers. The greatest stress on a beam (or stringer) will be in the top and bottom edges, so it's strongest to drill right through the center. If the area around the hole is not as wide as you'd like, add a layer or 2 of biax tape on the area around the hole to strengthen the edges of the stringer.

Of course, in the real world, that's not always possible.....

And Larry, that's a beautiful boat. Sweet.

Fred in Wisc

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:58 am
by Steve
Larry,
I put in 4" chase tubes outside the stringers. My console is 30" wide, so I was able not to have to run through the stringers. With the glass and sole supports glued in to the braces, it's still plenty strong in my opinion.
Steve T
OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:18 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Good Attitude, Larry. I know how you feel about your back! My 8' beam was a long reach! I stayed out of the hull until the stringers were in. That center one was a booger! I have reached the burn out point. Looking to the forum for inspiration daily! I am starting to feel the urge, but it's not happenin' yet :cry: I need another deadline!

Huck

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:31 am
by mecreature
I would thank it easier to cut the holes in the stringers first before taping...


but..

I know if it was me I would end up with a cleaner hole if I cut it after all the taping... kind of a trade off..

You have come a long way in a very short time. great job..

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the replies 8)

Fred in Wisc., good advice, and thanks for the compliment.

Steve, I'm going to stay outside the stringers also. 4" is a big pipe 8O , but the pipe itself has some strength.

I'm not going to run through a stringer, only frame pieces.

Tom, my math says that would be 1.5/3. Not off too far. And the pipe supplies some strength too. This hull is 1/2", with 3 layers of glass, plus the stringers glassed in. I don't think a hole that size will weaken it much.

Huck, OK here it is, I bet you a case of beer, of your preference, that I will launch before you.Consider it a challenge. :lol:

Mecreature, it seems to me like taping around the holes would be a real aggravation. Of course I may be wrong. Certainly have been before :doh:

You all have given me useful stuff to think about.

holes

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:38 pm
by plumbertuck
drill where needed and run the pipe :!:
i have drilled myself silly through the years, location is important but it varies depending on where he load is coming from, Is it from the top or bottom, That will change depending on what the boat is doing .....there won't be any twist will there ?
I could be way off here but what you DO have to do is brace the area, filling around the pipe with a thick epoxy mix you will transfer alot of strain to the pipe wall strength , some cleats or blocking along the sides will also beef up that area , the way I see it the hull won't get pinpoint loading on those points anyway.....will it :?:

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:17 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Larry

I am not saying you should cut the holes B/F-hand, but, if you do you can cut the glass that overlaps the holes while it is still green (razor blade) and you are done. I had several areas where I did this and it worked well. I did cut my frames after installation with a jig saw and it worked well. I have VERY little space below my floor with lots of wierd angles. The planning would have been a nightmare.

Beliken Stout. Might have to go there to get it, though.

Huck

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Belikin it is. 8) Maybe we'll go together!

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:28 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Went through our pictures 2 nights ago and got real ready. I wish I could spend more time in that part of the world......maybe someday :cry: . We will likely go again this summer. It's cheaper and quieter in the off-season.

Huck

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, I like it much better in the summer months also. Too many touristas in the winter.

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 am
by TomW
Belikin and touristas, didn't know you spoke Spanish, too! :D Can I come? Good fishing then.

Tom

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:09 am
by Cracker Larry
Si, mi habla un poco espanol.

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:49 am
by gk108
Years ago I learned a little Spanish while fishing on a business trip in Brownsville.
No pescados aqui. :lol:

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Then...

Ayer a última hora. O quizá manana :doh:

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Back to building :D Sam and I got a few things done over the weekend.

We went ahead and glued all the cleats to all the lower frame members. This is easier on my back at table height, than bent over the boat :wink:

Image

This was a really messy job and I got glue on everything!

Image

Then we started some final fitting...also notice we tabbed and completely glassed in the transom clamping boards..

Image

Got tired of glassing and glueing :o

So we decided to work on some hardware, and started again with the bow eye. The backing piece I drilled first with a pilot hole, and again with a 1/4" oversized bit. We primed and then filled the holes in the backing block with thickened epoxy, while we were glueing the frame cleats.

When the epoxy set good, I re-drilled the holes the correct size. Using this as a drill guide, I drilled through the bow for the U bolt. Tested the fit and drilled oversized for filling...

Image

Primed these holes with epoxy, taped the outside (masking tape) and filled from the inside with thickened epoxy. Here is the outside..

Image

And the inside..

Image

I will re-drill these to exact size.

Just for some over kill, for Tom :lol: and some angel poon, for Boomer :lol: we decided we could make this even stronger with a larger metal backing strip, so we made one of those too :D Only took a few minutes...

Image

It fits like this...

Image

So all we have to do now is glue and glass the backing block in place, finish drill the holes, slap some 5200 on it and snug it up. I reckon that will hold it :D

In the process of waiting on epoxy to dry, we also started on the bow running lights, which will be eyebrow style side lights. They will be recessed into the hull sides, and I made backing blocks for them that will be glued on the inside of the hull.

Image

That's about all we got done. We did catch some shrimp though in our spare hours :D

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:47 am
by TomW
Nice work! Guess you have plenty of that aluminum bar left for extra backing plates. I'd do the same for all my cleats and stern eyes also. :lol: :P By the way like those lights where did you get them? Love your little yellow protractor got one just like it, ain't they great.

Tom

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:06 am
by WobblyLegs
Looking good Larry, looking really good!

Who's that with Sam? Mmm, which one is Sam?

Tim.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:42 am
by tech_support
Very clean work :!:

That is a great close up of how to properly mount a bow eye :D

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:32 am
by jeremy
Showoff! :D

Just kidding, it looks great and the pictures are a great instrument to show folks how it should be done.

Keep up the great work Sam!

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:25 am
by deedee
great , clean work !!!!! that bow eye looks really nice!!! i looked at your gallery and saw how you squared off the whole transom and used your idea. thanks. i used a piece of aluminum and some lead blocks to hold the aluminum in place til' the epoxy set . great work!

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:21 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Beautiful work, Larry. Your hull is so slick. It really shows at the panel overlap just behind your bow eye! Good standards for the rest of us to work by. You just might beat me.............nah!! I back on it hard core by the end of the week.

Huck

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone for the kind words :oops: :D Let me try to reply to you all...

Huck, that panel overlap gave me a fit. In retrospect it would have been easier to keep it sharp. It would have been much easier to just install a spray rail along that line too, as the plans called for. I'm generally known for picking a path less traveled. The next time, I'm going to just put a spray rail on it. But I wanted some large hull graphics, which would give me a problem without a smooth transition over the panels.

And yeah, you can see some painted in bugs on the last coat of primer. It has not been sanded at all. Waiting for finish time. I don't care who buys the beer as long as you're working at it :lol:

Deedee, thanks, most of what I know about fiberglass I've learned right here, so I try to pass the torch when I can :D

Jeremy, it's all Sam's work. I just do what he tells me :lol:

Joel, I'm learning :wink:

Tim, thanks! That is Sam's first mate, Delilah. Fat, lazy and useless, except she makes beautiful puppies :D Sam is in the background. Lila is in the foreground.

Tom, yes, left over flat bar from that 10' stick. I'm ahead of you :P I already cut and drilled the backing pieces for the stern eyes when I did the bow eye.
Once the bandsaw and drill press are set up, it was as easy to make 3 of them as it was one.

Cleats on the other hand get more serious attention and I've been working on those too. As soon as my camera batteries recharge I'll go take a picture of my cleats. You'll really like those :wink:

The side lights came from iboats.com, solid stainless, relatively inexpensive at about $30. And that protractor is the best $5.00 I've ever spent on a tool.

Thanks again everyone, we all learn together :D

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:44 pm
by TomW
:lol: :lol: :lol: I figured you were ahead of me on the cleats and stern eyes. Love your work. Oh the paint showed beautifully on the bow eye pictures nicely done.

Tom

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, here are my cleats. I just photo'd one, but I've got 7 of these. 2 for the bow, 2 amidships, 2 stern and one on the console.

They are all matching, 7" open based, solid bottom, custom machined from a solid block of marine grade aluminum. The backing plates are made from 3/8 marine aluminum plate, drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 machine threads. Of course they will get an appropriate wood backing block, as well as the aluminum plates. You won't get these from Iboats.com :P Glad you asked :D

Image

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:42 pm
by TomW
:lol: :lol: Should have known you had something up your sleeve. No you won't get those from any of the regular web sites. You're access to the marine industry around Savannah leaves some of us in a quandry. Those guys are beautiful and the perfect size all though I like 8" better. Nothing wrong with 7". I assume your 1/4-20 bolts are 204 or 216 stainless.

Tom

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:29 pm
by gk108
What a cleat :!:

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
If you want some I can get them for you. About $25 each with backing plates drilled and tapped.

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
Still plugging away and we got a few more things done. Sam and I shaped all the lower frame sections to near perfect fit, allowing a consistent gap all around. The best tool for this was the bench sander.

Image

Then we gave it all a coat of epoxy, along with some other incidental pieces...

Image

After this cured, we started figuring how to glue them all in, keeping consistent gaps, and keeping them plumb. As well as square and flush with the stringers :doh:

We finally hit upon this simple solution. Hang them from a board that spans the stringers :idea: This will keep them straight, flush, plumb and allow for gaps, all with one easy board. I used hot glue to tack the tops of the frames to the bottom of the spanner boards... This will work perfect.

Image

We're about out of epoxy and wood flour. As soon as Joel sends me some more we'll glue and tape these in.

We also fitted the stern eyes, drilled the holes oversized and filled them with thickened epoxy, just like the bow.

In the bow, we glued in the backing block for the eye. A couple of Sharpie pens were perfect to maintain hole alignment, without getting them permanently stuck.

After that, it was back to the sidelights. I got one side cut out and everything dry fitted....

Image

And the backing block for it..

Image

It needs a little more shaping to make it just right, but it's getting there :D

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:08 pm
by ponyboy
Larry, I do so enjoy watching your progress, it is a thing of beauty. Looking very nice.

I also enjoy the stories, you certainly do have the gift of gab.

Pony

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:16 am
by TomW
Larry, very nice work. Looks like you'll be running pipe later this week. Keep up the good work. Really like those eye lights. I found them by the way.

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:04 am
by tech_support
Cracker Larry wrote: We finally hit upon this simple solution. Hang them from a board that spans the stringers :idea: This will keep them straight, flush, plumb and allow for gaps, all with one easy board. I used hot glue to tack the tops of the frames to the bottom of the spanner boards... This will work perfect.
Thats a good one :) This will make the sole installation a breeze, and you will use much less glue to fill low spots.

One thing I enjoy about boat building is how it forces you to use the creative part of your brain in order to solve simple problems.

Joel

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all :D

Joel should I glue cleats on the stringers also, for supporting the sole? The stringers are 1 1/2" already.

And no cleats on the hull sides, right :doh: Just glue and tape the sole to the side panels?

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:21 pm
by Lucky_Louis
I'm not sure about your design Larry, but the OB-17 got cleats on the sides to support the sole mainly because it's impossible to tape the underside so loads on the sole woul be trying to separate the tape from the plywood sole or delaminate the plywood. As to your stringers, even with the 1-1/2" stingers, I'd use cleats there too. It kinda completes the "I" beam construction and increases the glueing surface.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:30 pm
by WobblyLegs
ditto.

I asked the same question: here.

Tim.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:42 pm
by TomW
Larry I have even put the cleats on the sids a little lower(an 1/8 is enough) so the water drains to the sides and back to the scuppers, when you are not underway, unless you are going to keep it covered.

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
You all make a good point, I will cleat the stringers. That's going to be some sturdy I beams 8O

But if you notice on the first pic above, the soles outside edges will actually bear on the chine panels, which slope significantly inward and will provide support. It will wedge the sole in place. I think :doh:

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:12 pm
by TomW
I'd still cleat it Larry, you get someone like me putting my nearly 300 lbs on a spot it would still tend to push down and force your chines apart. I don't remember what your chines are made of, but better to be safe and smart and do it right than sorry. If you don't want to do a whole cleat I would at minimum put a 12-18" peice in the center of each compartment so that there are no big voids.

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:24 pm
by gk108
Yeah, I'm with Tom on that. When you used the word 'wedge' an alarm went off. Plus, if you plan on gunwales and rod storage under them you can put a cleat where the rod holder sub-frame lands if you need to.
Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you will get the best results by tabbing the frames in the same as the stringers. Cleats would tend to make something like a hard spot, wouldn't they? Right now you have a perfect setup to get a putty filled gap under those frames.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes GK, I intend to fill the frame gaps with putty, fillet and tape, just like the stringers. That's why I made the gaps. No hard spots anywhere. I'm asking about connecting the sole to the chine.

The plans do not call for cleats along the chine panel, just the frames. But there are a lot of things the plans don't specifically call for.

I can walk on these chine panels right now, and jump up and down. They have 6 layers of glass on the outside and 4 layers inside. No worry about 300 lbs.

But if I need cleats there, I don't mind making some. That's why I'm asking. Probably a good idea Tom, to space a few at least.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:55 am
by gk108
Don't know where I got mixed up. :D

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:06 pm
by ks8
Looking great CL! :)

Now you know the hull will hang from the helicpoter alright from that bow eye...

Are you going to paint the full hull exterior before 5200'ing the bow eye in forever? Just a thought so its one big unbroken skin of LPU...

I've been holding off final hardware bedding for that reason, as I don't want to be LPU'ing up onto pre-existing 5200 or 4200 if it can be avoided, though I suppose you could give a final 5200 seal after the LPU edge had cured.

:)

Did you get a good rainin' last week?

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:52 am
by PastorBob
No worry about 300 lbs

Aww Larry are planning for me to go fishing with you :lol:

Boat is looking good~ How long do those shrimp run.... :D

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
KS, thanks. Yes, I wanted to get all the hardware cutouts made, holes drilled and filled and redrilled, before the final paint. Nothing will be permanently installed until after the last coat of paint goes on.

Hope that helo hooks up to my stern eyes too :P

And yes, thanks we got a very good raining last week. Almost 4 inches :D

Wish you'd come back fishing with me Bob. The shrimp stay until cold water runs them out too deep to catch. Usually late November-ish. Weather is strange this year. Who knows. They are here until they leave, but still here now. With a drag net I can catch them all year, but not with a cast net.

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:00 pm
by MadRus
Larry,

I just wanted to say you do fantastic work. I've been watching your progress from the beginning and it's very impressive. There are a few guys around here who really display patience, it sure makes a difference in the final product.

-Dave

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Dave. I appreciate that :D I think it was years of trying to get places in sailboats that taught me patience :doh:

Had some time this afternoon and Sam and I got a few things done. We made the cut out for the port sidelight and got it fitted to satisfaction. This is something that needs to be checked and measured a few times, before you commit to the drill.

I did this by using a hole saw to cut each end of the oval. Then used a hacksaw blade with a taped handle to connect the 2 circles. Like this...

Image

Just needs a little sanding now, and the edges sealed.

Image

Perfect fit :D ..
Image

And we got the transom rings finished up. All they need is some 5200.

Inside..

Image

Outside..

Image

A fresh supply of epoxy just showed up, so I guess we'll get back on those frames next 8) I sure get good service from Joel :!:

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:30 pm
by steve292
Thats becoming a good looking boat, larry
It is nice to see someone who so obviously takes pride in his work.
Steve

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's very kind of you to say, Steve. Pride is one thing I do have a lot of. Got it from my Dad. Sometimes it was the only thing we owned :wink: Along with an old boat and an older airplane.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:51 pm
by topwater
Thats a nice looking boat cl. Been watching for awhile. You make it look easy. :D

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:43 pm
by deedee
great work !!!! its alot of motivation to see someone else ahead of you doing a really nice job. 8O definitely takes the patience to another level.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:10 pm
by jayb01
Cracker,

Have you thought about adding any cockpit lighting? How about some red leds (to maintain nightvision)? Plus it adds to the cool factor.

Image

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:11 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Good tip on the Nav lights, Larry. I have had the same ones laying around for about 3 months and can't bring myself to cut the holes! I guess you just gave me a push! Maybe this weekend.

Huck

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
You don't think I'm betting a case of beer on those too, do you :help:

Sam and I had a free hour this afternoon and managed to get both side light backing blocks glued and filleted in place, and we got the bow eye backing block filleted and glassed in. It was already glued.

Image

Trying to catch up, Huck :D

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:55 am
by Cracker Larry
Well, we got after those frames yesterday. It took twice as long as I anticipated, as most things do, so we only got 2 out of the 4 finished. I was hoping for all 4 :roll:

The prep work took a while, sanded and cleaned everything, adjust final fit, cut all the sections of tape...

Image

I also switched from a slow to a medium hardner and had a new learning curve. Lost about half of my first batch of resin :help: and about half of my first batch of glue. It was a cool day but this stuff kicks fast :!:

Anyway, we got 2 of them finished. My hanger boards worked great for keeping them in position.

Image

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:20 pm
by TomW
I guess Sam didn't hold the whip to you enough. :lol: Better slow and right than wrong. Nice job.

Tom

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:29 am
by asweany
Cracker, I noticed that when you were ready to glue your top side panels, you made blocks to help hold it in place. It appears that you also used blocks on the inside of the hull as a temp. backer for the blocks? Any help on placing and holding the panel in place would be helpful. Like you, my only helper is of the four legged type. Thanks Asweany
ps Boat looks great as always!!

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:24 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks really good, Larry. I will definitely try the hanger idea to keep the frames aligned on my next build. I think it will go much faster than this one. Might even spring for the pre-cut kit (my wife thought that was a good idea)!

Have fun with the Medium speed. About half my boat is built with that. We laid the outer glass skins with it. There were two of us spreading and 1 mixing and we still had to push to stay ahead of it!

Huck

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Asweany, yes, I made some blocks from sections of 2X4. In each one I cut a 1/4" rabbet in the top edge, to secure the upper panel edge and hold it tight to the hull. In retrospect I should have used more of them. It was not an easy job for Sam and I alone and the panel was hard to align and keep it all flush. It also took a good many screws along the seam to pull it flat. That's why the inside backer blocks.

If I were going to do it again, I think I would consider glueing these panels together with them both flat on the ground, then bend the whole unit around the frames in one piece.

I don't know if this would affect the way they bend, but I don't think so. I would at least run the question by Jacques and see what he thinks about it. That was one of the more difficult tasks of the build.

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Huck, I've got to order some more slow hardner. I've need time to move at my liesurely Cracker speed, and sip my beer as I go. If I wanted to rush, I'd go shopping with my wife or something :doh:

The System3 with slow gives you plenty of working time even if it's 100 degrees. I figured I'd be safe working my normal dawdling pace after switching to Marinepoxy and medium hardner, since the temps started out about 42 and only warmed to 70. I guess I'll save that stuff for when it's below freezing :?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Slow hardener is on order. And 4 gallons of that messy 2 part foam :|

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:54 pm
by gk108
I couldn't imagine working with anything but slow hardener. It's not that I'm slow, I just don't hurry very fast. :D

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
We're still plodding along. Will never catch Huck, unless he quits.

Today we finished up the lower frames and got started on the cleats for the stringers. I'm going to use dowels to keep these aligned for glueing. 2 in each.

These frames seem like a milestone. We're heading for the home stretch now. Sole, console and rigging. I think the worst is over 8) Not counting gunwales and decks and hatches and motorwell and a few other details :doh:

Hopefully tomorrow we will start on some chase tubes. :D

Image

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:00 am
by Oceola
Larry,
What did you decide on your gas tank(s) ?
Frank

P.S. For several reasons, hanging the frames on one common board across the stringers, is one of the best "tricks" I've seen on the forums.

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:33 am
by Cracker Larry
Still shopping for gas tanks, Frank. No decisions yet. Going to have to make one soon. This week.

The frame hangars worked perfectly, thanks 8)

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
At it again. A beautiful fall day in the South :D

We've got all the stringer cleats ready to glue and pegged in place. But I'm tired of mixing glue. Going to give it a rest. No sticky today.

Instead, we worked on mechanical layouts and chase tubes.


Image

This 2" pipe takes a lot of room to make a 90 8O Not exactly where I want it to be, but where it almost has to be. We're still dry fitting and fiddling anyway. Plans subject to change.

Image

We've about got all the chase tubes positioned. Now I'll pull them out and give the holes a couple of coats of resin. When I feel like mixing glue again. :)

Image

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:38 pm
by deedee
great work!! looks like you have really taken your time and thought the set up through.can you give us an idea of what each tubes is for ? hydraulic steering? electrical wires or signal wires? gas line? just curious because i find my self drifting off into neverland while i am fairing and i am usually thinking of that stuff at those times. my wife walked right up to me the other day while i was using a long board and i was totally oblivious , i don't even know where i was . mam o' man that looks really nice and you will feel comfortable knowing you planned well when you are running along at a good clip! :D

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:41 pm
by deedee
p.s. what is the epoxy filled hole for ? above the wood cut out for the bilge pump. thru hull transducer or fitting?

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:45 pm
by plumbertuck
lookin' good, brace down the flexible conduit, the foam will float it and push it up.
the ridgid conduit will be fine

you workmanship is inspiring, keep it up

thanks for this thread

Tuck

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
David, that epoxy filled hole is for the in-hull fish finder transducer.

The large tube is for steering, shift and throttle. One of the smaller 1" tubes along side it is for motor electrics, tach, temps, starting, and stern light. The other alongside it is bilge pump, bait pump, washdown and fishfinder transducer.

The long 1" in center from forward section to sump is for fuel hose. Subject to change.

The flexible conduits forward from console, one is for running lights, one is for fuel tank sending unit. Both have extra room for spares.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:10 am
by TomW
Very well thought out Larry. Everything is looking good and progress is a making.

Tom

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:55 am
by deedee
yes indeed . well thought out.is that transducer gonna go through the hull or sit on top of the epoxy and "shoot through" it? i really like the way that these people layed out this boat. they have some really great ideas . it seems like they made an area beside the console on the gunwhales from top to bottom to be able to run wires or cables through under the gunwhales. just a thought.
Image

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
It will sit on top and shoot through the hull.

That's a good idea, to run a chase from the console to under the gunwales. I'll do that, thanks. Don't know what I'll use it for, but you just never know :wink:

That is a nice looking boat! Straight inboard. I'm still scratching my head over deck layouts, but that sure looks good.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:39 pm
by Oceola
It's a jet drive...part composite, part cold molded custom "fishing" boat...Was on the cover of Wooden Boat mag a year or so ago. There were a lot of construction detail pics...real interesting...prob cost 250k.

Frank

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Jet? I was close. I don't remember seeing it. 250K for that 8O I'm in the wrong business.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:47 pm
by deedee
yes its a really neat boat . the decks make me drool every time i look at them . i think its may 2005 issue. i took the picture from a gallery pic here. i will scan a few of the pictures if i can find the issue. that was the reason i kept the issue.

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
No need to for me, I've got the last few years of them. I'll look it up.
Thanks :!:

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:45 pm
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:We've about got all the chase tubes positioned. Now I'll pull them out and give the holes a couple of coats of resin. When I feel like mixing glue again. :)
*When I feel like...* ??!

Where's Sam!

Well, I'm no one to talk.... :?

:)

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:56 pm
by colonialc19
Cracker Larry wrote:It will sit on top and shoot through the hull.

That's a good idea, to run a chase from the console to under the gunwales. I'll do that, thanks. Don't know what I'll use it for, but you just never know :wink:

That is a nice looking boat! Straight inboard. I'm still scratching my head over deck layouts, but that sure looks good.
Cracker, you could mount you a pair of those under gunwale speakers, jam a little on the way over to the islands, also maybe some lighting 8)

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
8) Oh yeah

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:23 pm
by ks8
sound modified lighting? You could go for those late night large mouth disco fish... attracted by lights and deep bass...

:lol:

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:45 pm
by TomW
Larry what ever boat I build I am going to run conduit and wire to both gunnels. You never know what may come up that you want to add. I will also put 1 1/2" holes in the frames for conduit if I need it later.

By the way where are you putting your stereo and speakers, you have to have some Down on the Bayou or some Grateful Dead at launch. :P

Tom

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's a little too "Downtown" for me, KS :lol:

Hadn't thought about speakers, guess I should. I'd rather listen to the river, but my wife likes to jam.

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:08 pm
by asweany
Speakers are a must. My Dad taught me the two words I needed to know for a happy mariage.... "Yes Dear"

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, Dear.

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:31 pm
by Oceola
Larry,
If SWMBO really wants speakers check out the Seafarer International Marine speakers at www.seafarerinternational.com
They got a very good review in this months Texas Fish and Game mag.

Frank

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
Nice site, Frank, thanks for the link :D

Fuel tank is decided and on the way. I settled for 40 gallons, a plastic Moeller belly style tank roughly 32 X 32 X 10. That should be sufficient for most jaunts, and a couple of 5 gallon jugs will handle the occasional extended trips.

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:21 am
by TomW
Glad you settled on a tank Larry. Just remember Coast Guard requirements say you have to vent the compartment that contains a Non-metallic fuel tank. So take that into account when you are building your tank compartment.

Tom

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:50 am
by Cracker Larry
Tom, could you show me that in writing? This is all I can find and it doesn't distinguish metal from plastic.....

[quote]FUEL TANK COMPARTMENTS

A compartment containing a fuel tank that is permanently installed, as opposed to a portable tank or container, does not require natural ventilation unless the compartment contains an electrical component that is not ignition protected.

Ignition protection is defined in Title 33 CFR Subpart I - Electrical Systems,
183.410(a) as follows:

“(a) Each electrical component must not ignite a propane gas and air mixture that is 4.25 to 5.25 percent propane gas by volume surrounding the electrical component when it is operated at each of its manufacturer rated voltages and current loadings, unless it is isolated from gasoline fuel sources, such as engines, valves, connections, or other fittings in vent lines, fill lines, distribution lines or on fuel tanks, in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section.â€

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:05 am
by TomW
Larry this is from the U. S. Department of Transportation, United States Coast Guard, Safety Standards For BackYard Boat Builders: COMDTPUB P16761.3B

Ventilation:

Except for compartments "open to the atmosphere" a natural ventalation system must be provided for each compartment in a boat that -

- contains...
- contains...
- contains...
- contains a non-metallic fuel tank.

The "Natural Ventilation System" must consist of
(1) supply opening(s) ...
(2) exhaust opening(s)...

This was on page 30 of these regs. I pulled these off the net I'll see if I can find it again it was a pdf file so the web address is not on the pages.

Tom

Found it: http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/education_ ... ilders.pdf

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Interesting contridiction. Hmmm.... :doh:

Thanks. A lot of good information at that site.

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:05 am
by TomW
Yea Larry, I know I have seen it suggested in other places that you need to provide ventilation for plastic tanks but this was the first time I had seen anything in writing by the CG. I know in the 90's they banned plastic tanks all together. Maybe this is there response to allowing them back. :doh:

I agree thought you might like the whole Pub.

Tom

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:32 pm
by TomW
Hope you had a great Thanksging with your family down there. I know fishing is in your soul so if your like my family you went fishing/hunting first and then had the turkey. I miissed going up to Ohio and hunting rabbits and pheasants with my cousins. But made up for it with the freinds I have made down here hunting for deer, rabbit and squirrel. Some of my guys are taking me after bear and boar when the seasons starts since we have found sign on my property.

Well Happy T-Days

Tom

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom. You've got me pegged. We hunted deer Thanksgiving morning and afternoon, and Fri. morning and afternoon. Got 4. Today we took the GF16 to the Savannah River swamps, and caught 2 wild hogs. We had 2 men, 4 hounds and 2 150lb. live boars in the boat. I'll pen feed them for a while and either sell them to a hunting club or eat them. Here they are in my pen..

Oh, too cold and windy to fish this weekend. Good for hunting though.

Image

We got some boat work done here and there in the last week. Finished up all the cleats for the sole, and got all the chase tubes fitted. Using dowels for alignment really made the job of glueing on the cleats easy.

The fuel tank came in and we're working on that, too...

Image

After we had everything dry fitted, we pulled it all out so we could clean the boat, and coat the holes with epoxy. Sam helped with all this. It was something he could do without getting sticky...

Image

Then we gave everything below the sole another 2 coats of epoxy. We don't want any rot going on under here in this lifetime :wink:

Image

After that cured, we re-installed all the chase tubes and glued them up...

Image

And we also glassed in the sump, and installed the backing plates for the bilge pump, float switch, bait/washdown pump, and water pick up thru-hull fitting. This will all be in the sump.

Image

So we're all ready to pour some foam. If tomorrow is warmer than today I might give it a go, cautiously :?

I'm not sure exactly how to bring these tubes through the sole and console bottom in a neat manner :doh:

Image

Any ideas on that :?: Cut a big hole, foam it up, glass it over :doh:

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:10 pm
by TomW
I figured as much. Nice pigs our boars up here are from a Russion strain so are a little bigger, hairier and nastier. Sounds like you had a great time. :D

Beautiful shiny interior there. I think it will last a 100 yrs.

I think your best bet is to do it the way carpenters do. Lay out all the soles except for that piece. Then for that peice take measurements from the side and closest seam and drill appropriate size holes for the pipe. If you have done everything right the sole should drop right over the pipes. I have done this for sinks numerous times. Some with 3 pipes some with 5. You can over sizes the holes and fill them with 5200 or epoxy.

If you have any questions, please ask.

Tom

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:45 pm
by gk108
On the back road I take to St Marks there is a sign that advertises pen-raised wild hogs for sale. I always wondered how they could be wild if they were raised in a pen. Now I know. :D
Toms method of locating the holes is about the best I can think of. If you end up with holes too big to suit you, you could always make split trim rings to go around them after the sole is laid down.

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:05 am
by Cracker Larry
Nice pigs our boars up here are from a Russion strain so are a little bigger, hairier and nastier.
Tom, our wild pigs are also Russian, mostly, although there aren't many around that don't have some crossbreeding. It's getting harder to find one that is solid black like this. It makes them more valuable as a trophy. These pigs are young, maybe 4 months old. Trust me they will get big, well over 500 lbs. and as nasty as your worst nightmare. Catching them live will get the adrenelin flowing :!:


Image

Thanks for the hole cutting suggestions. That's how I had planned to do it.
Maybe it will work out :doh:

GK, thanks for the advice :D

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:07 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks great Larry. Your work is always inspiring. I would cut like Tom suggested. That is kind-of what I did or at least wanted to do. Then I foamed the hole up and waited for it to cure. Took my coping saw and cut the foam so it was a nice smooth mound up about 4-5" above the sole. Then I roughed the pipes up, and laid several layers of glass up, wet on wet. Worked for me and seemed water tight when I washed the interior down before installing the console.

Huck

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:16 pm
by TomW
Larry suggestion do a test with a peice of 1/4" ply scrap just large enough to cover area of pipes, side and closest edge. If it fits you can transfer it to your good piece if it doesn't you can make corrections on it.

Tom

PS I wasted a couple pieces before I got the hang of it.

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:38 pm
by timoub007
I've be off the 'net for a while due to a lot of family health issues. All I can say is WOW Larry, the boat is looking great! And Happy Thanksgiving too.

I haven't done it on a boat, but I concur with the recommendations given above. I'd probably make a test peice out of cardboard though and not 1/4" ply as that'd be easier for me.

Keep up the excellent work.
Tim

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all for suggestions.

Cardboard, that's the ticket, Tim. Why didn't I think of that :doh:

Huck, that's sorta what I was leaning towards, foam it up and glass over the mound. I'll probably end up with a combination.

Cold, cloudy and windy today, no foaming. But I have been working on the console, inside the shed with the heater
:D

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:30 pm
by TomW
Tim great suggestion I'm just used to having scrap 1/4" laying around I guess.

It's been gray and nasty up here to Larry raining now. May snow tonight.

Tom

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wish it would rain here :( No water in the rivers at all. Most of the oxbow lakes and river bottom swamps are dry. You couldn't get down the Ogeechee River in a canoe right now.

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tim, I hope the family health issues are better :!:

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:40 am
by TomW
Larry rain didn't amount to a hill of beans 1/3" if that but I'll take it. Hope you understood my gibberish on the scuppers. If not let me know you can always e-mail me or call me. I just hate using pipe it is to easy to clog and having been on big ships to small for my liking.

Tom

PS Can't wait to see your console.

By the way if you don't have it here is the Great Lakes Skippers web site http://www.greatlakesskipper.com/categories.cfm

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom. Yes, I understand the scuppers and agree with you that even a 2" pipe will not move a lot of water, and is easy to clog. Most larger boats I've been on have large rectangular scuppers. Most small center consoles do not, but it sure wouldn't hurt for a boat used offshore.
When the waves are coming over you, you've got to shed the first one's water before the next one hits you, and 2" pipe just can't do that.

The only requirement is to build 2X5 or whatever, tunnels from the motorwell frame to the transom, under each stern locker. Or, I could put them on the sides, just ahead of the motorwell frames. This would be a lot simpler, and I think it would probably work as well :?: Open to suggestions on that thought.

As to the console, :? I've drawn it out a dozen times, and haven't made a saw cut yet. I've got so many lines, I've had to switch colors with my pens and pencils :doh: I've drawn out the standard console, included in several plans, and the OD18 console that is a bit different, but both seem a little small and inadequate for what I have in mind, which is flush mount radios, fishfinder, chart plotter, and radar. Yes, radar, yall go ahead and laugh. :lol: Plus the normal switch panels and gauges. So I've been working on one with 2 sloped faces in a step configuration.

I don't like the electronics just stuck on brackets on the console top. No need in that, when I have an opportunity now to build it all in.

I've been looking at all the consoles I can find to look at, for ideas. I've about got it worked out, I think, or at least narrowing it down :D

I really appreciate your input :D

Oh, we finally got some rain yesterday evening, almost an inch :!: All of it in about an hour. More than we've had in 3 months I think.

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:11 pm
by TomW
I don't like holes in the side of a small boat especially when the sole is right at the water line. I'd rather give the slant a chance to roll the water out the back that extra 24-27" with the wider scuppers. My other thought on side scuppers is that if water is coming from the wrong direction it could catch a side scupper and hold it open, maybe tear it off. :doh: I don't know I have never used them on the sides.

As for the console we are thinking alike also I have a two stage drawn up . What I did was measure the sole where the console would go the subtract 32 and 34 inches 32/2 is 16 inches on a side, 34 is 17" on a side to get around it. That gave me a nice 36-42" wide console depending on which boat I choose. Plenty of room for lots of instruments and switches.
Since I'm so tall I'm customizing it at 42" tall also with the wheel on a slope starting at 28" for the first tier. I'm also debating putting everything behind glass to further protect it. Any thoughts on that?

I'm not laughing at all at the radar if I lived where you did I'd have one also.

Glad you got the rain.

Tom

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Funny, 42" is the height I came up with also :D

As to the scuppers, shouldn't they drain as well out the rear sides as they would the transom? It's all the same heigth above the water.

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:19 pm
by TomW
See my addition. I was editing as you were typing.

Tom

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK.

I've had boats with side scuppers, but they also had transom scuppers. And they were inboards without a motorwell. Never used side scuppers alone, but it seems they would work.

Commercial fishing boats usually have scuppers distributed all along both sides, bow quarter to stern. It's more important to let the water out than to worry about the occasional wet feet from an odd wave.

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:38 pm
by TomW
Ok

Tom

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:35 am
by steve292
Cracker & Tom,
My thoughts FWIW,
I am giving scuppers a lot of thought & I must say I prefer the simple square flap type as well. Out the back of the transom seems better to me although more work. I used to occasionally crew on an inshore potting boat back when I lived in west wales which had side scuppers as most commercial boats do, & although no water stayed on the deck, if it was rough it was a very wet deck. I will qualify this by saying there is no way I would go out for pleasure in those conditions mind.Also the potter had scuppers perhaps 12" above its waterline & the sides were more or less vertical. My FS17 sides have quite a slope out on them as, indeed from the pics does the OD18, which might cause the scupper flaps to hang open under normal running, allowing spray back in to the cockpit.
as I say,just my thoughts,
regards,
Steve

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:19 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Larry

I like the idea of building tunnels out the back from the cockpit. I reall considered that myself and it's what I wanted. It would have been very easy but I would have lost all my storage and battery space. I have almost no storage as it is. Little boat, big ideas I guess.

Good luck

Huck

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:14 pm
by TomW
Larry see what you mean about getting a wide enough console. Printed out the your plan from the Study Plans. I could only come up with a 34" console by only leaving you 15" on each side on the sole. Not a whole lot.

That barely meets Shine's 5Gal bucket requierement. :cry:

Tom

PS 5:30 was out in the shop a 5G bucket is 12 1/2"

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:36 pm
by Lower
I'm not to this point yet...but am enjoying the reading on scuppers and console. Great stuff to keep in mind when the time comes. Seem to pick up a little something everytime I'm on this page! Thanks.

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:29 pm
by stickystuff
You guys are blowing this way out of proportion. I have a Ph 16 with two floor drains in it. standard elbow type with vented holes like a shower drain. One on each side of rear bulkhead, The drains are a 90 deg. elbow with floating check ball inside to keep water from going back up through the floor. Drain hose is standard 1-1/4" poly hosw draining to 1 1/4" drains with flapper valve cover. I have had waves come over my bow and water flowing all in my deck and drained out in a matter of minutes. I have never had any fear of swamping or sinking. I just believe you guys are going on the edge on this. There are hundreds of boats out there that use this same system. Cmon guys. :doh:

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:08 pm
by TomW
Sticky that may be fine for your boat, but I don't think you will be taking your boat out where Larry or hopefully I or JimW take our boats. Your boat also doesn't have the volume of the larger boats. Jim has already said he wishes his standard size 3x5 scuppers on the C19 were bigger. Draining in minutes is not acceptable, we need to drain in seconds. We don't neccesarily go out in those conditions but can unfortunately get caught in them from a sudden storm. Jim has gotten caught in 4-6' waves.

Tom

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes Sticky, I agree with Tom all the way. I ran offshore fishing charters over 300 days a year, for over 10 years. Our general rule of thumb was that if we could clear the sea bouy without sinking or terrifying the passengers, we fished. We had to to pay the bills. I've also commercial fished for about everything out there for 40 years, off and on. Same scenario. The ocean can ugly up quickly, but a good boat will keep on going.

I plan on running up to 60 miles offshore, and a 4-6 foot sea would be considered a normal average day around here. Sometimes worse, seldom better. I do not hesitate to go offshore when the forcast is 4-6, or even 6-8, and I have left out in 8-12. More than few times even in small boats. We can usually troll just fine in an 8 sea. I don't generally do that much now, don't have too, to pay the bills:D As an aside, I've had my butt kicked out there a few times too, and wished I hadn't gone out that day :cry:

There is no such thing as too good of a scupper system when you're 60 miles from land. I'm not flats fishing, where I can get out and walk. And sometimes you don't have minutes to wait for the boat to drain. It's got to be out of there in less than 30 seconds, because you're fixin to get another load of water.

If Jim has only been in 4-6 waves once, fishing 60 miles off Jacksonville, he's been picking the 3 perfect days of the year to fish :wink:

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, I did the bucket testing a while back 8) Very important. I'm going with a 32 width, because I will need room for T-Top legs also.

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:19 pm
by TomW
Larry I'm getting to old to go out in 8's any more but I want to go Salmon fishing in Lake Michigan an if I get caught there those 4-6's are worse than any 4-6's I've ever seen off anywhere on the East Coast I've lived. I also in a few years will have a retired wife and I know she won't mind a trip or two a year to NC's east coast so want to be able to reach the Stream which is only 20-40 miles off here.

I sure want my scuppers to work in either case.

Tom

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:34 pm
by stickystuff
My mistake guys. I didn't read the other previous page on the posts. I didn't realize you were runniing that far offshore or the boat size. Sorry. I have had many gallons come over the bow especially when inconsiderate offshore boats pass you while you are coming in the channel and they are going the other way. Flats boats do have their limitations. I will say that my hull is unsinkable and does drain quickly.
You guys might not know the stump story on my woody. Figure a 4" hole through your hull with a 3" cypress stump broke off and still sticking out of your hull, running another 2 miles +- to the ramp. Talk about taking on water. Thats why I use a 1500 GPm Bildge pump. Full flotation in the hull also. I was not even slightly worried about my hull sinking.Was really shocked when I put the boat back on the trailer and the stump was still sticking out of the bottom. I think there are some pictures of it on the PH plans page under pictures. Still have it. 7 yrs old now.

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm getting too old for 8's also, but if I get in them, I want the water gone.

The thing around here is, you have to get past the offshore bars across the inlet mouths. These are usually 1-3 miles offshore and only 6-12 feet deep. Or less. The sounds flowing out to them is about 40 feet deep, and the offshore side drops to 30-50 feet very sharply. So the waves pile up over the bar to sometimes frightening heigths, 12-15 feet or more depending on wind and tide, even with an easy 4 ft swell on each side of it. You got to cross about a half mile to a mile of this to get offshore, and to get back in again. It is usually the roughest part of the trip, no matter how far offshore you are going. Deep water waves are easy to take, but when they hit 6 feet of water, they shoot straight up 8O

Huck said..
I reall considered that myself and it's what I wanted. It would have been very easy but I would have lost all my storage and battery space. I have almost no storage as it is. Little boat, big ideas I guess
Yes storage is a big consideration, but I wouldn't sacrifice seaworthiness for storage space. If you aren't going offshore, it doesn't much matter.

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:13 pm
by TomW
I forgot you had the bars and sounds down there also. Bogue Sound and Oregon Inlet are like that up here. Just plain nasty if the currents/winds and waves are right. Last time I went out was on a charter out of Oregon pretty day, but conditions were right that we had quite a ride in the inlet of closed spaced 8-10's once we got out it was all 3-4's.

Tom

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:58 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Yes storage is a big consideration, but I wouldn't sacrifice seaworthiness for storage space. If you aren't going offshore, it doesn't much matter.
Agree 100%, Larry. Completely different boat and platform. I always thought the OD would be fine with several slots along the side, much like bulwark drains. I have questioned that, though with some of the reports on waterline and spray from the OD's.

I know you guys will figure out a great solution, and I do love the idea of transom boxes/drains on that boat.

Huck

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
It was a beautiful fall weekend in the South :D and Sam an I got some building done.

We started yesterday morning by warming some cans of foam in the sunshine for a few hours, then mixing and pouring, mixing and pouring, mixing and pouring, about 48 times I think :P Thanks to all the good advice, the foam pouring went as expected. It was actually fun and easy.

Image

Sam kept a close eye on that foam. He wasn't sure if it was dead or alive, and he watched it carefully.

Image

We ran out of foam before we were completely finished. Mixed and poured 4 gallons. I think we need about 2 more to do everything I want to. Boston Whaler won't have anything over us! This sucker won't sink if you cut it in half :D

I want to give the foam a week or 2 to out-gas, before I seal the sole, so we started on the console.

We finally made some decisions, and some saw cuts. I've got all the parts roughly cut out. We may make some minor changes, but this is what Sam and I came up with...

Image

It's clamped to the post to help keep it square. The only thing holding it together is a couple of clamps.

Image

I think this is going to work out just right. It's a little wider than called for, 34" total, a little longer, and a little taller, but it will still pass the bucket test with room to spare :D And have plenty of room for instruments and storage.

Image

Then we disassembled it, took it inside the shop and started putting it back together. It's supposed to get cold again tomorrow, below freezing, but I can work on it inside all winter with the heater running.

In between all this, we cut and split a truckload of firewood :help:

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:50 pm
by timoub007
Looks like you, or Sam, have got the foam under control. Those chase tubes won't be moving ever again.

I did the firewood thing yesterday. I've got 12.5 acres of messed up woods from when Rita came through in '05 to cut and split. My bud and I knocked out over a cord yesterday in a little over 2 hours. Gotta love a 25 ton hydralic log splitter. :P Now if this 75 degree stuff will move on and get to feeling like fall it would be nice.

I really like the console Larry! What are your plans for the area under the front seat? That is a great place for the batts or anything other than a livewell.

Keep up the great work!

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:49 pm
by Dougster
Foam looks good Larry. How'd you get it so flat on top? Cut it? Lay something non stick on top of it? Sam and console look good too. I'm seeing the two of you out on the water, free and clear.

Goin' that way too Dougster

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:57 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Curious about the flat on the foam, too, Larry. Looks great as usual. Sam has such a keen eye!

Console looks good. I like the steps and angles, nooks and crannies. Your experience shows through in parts like that.

Huck

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:29 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the comments, guys :D

Tim, I think the area under the seat will just be storage. The live well will be in the stern, port side.

The foam is made flat by sawing off the tops of the mushrooms with a hand saw. All the scraps will be put in other compartments and poured around.

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:56 am
by Lucky_Louis
Great job foaming Larry! It is fun, isn't it? After all the finicky stuff I found that mixing, pouring, and watching the foam was very theraputic. I had such a good time, I forgot to take pictures. Good move by prewarming the part A and part B. You supposedly get better expansion ratios that way (even though Wobbly Legs testing seeming to dispel that) Try rapping your hull with your knuckles in a few places - it's amazing how solid it will feel and sound with the foam in.

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:42 pm
by TomW
Nice job Larry foam looks good. Like the console also. How many sheets of wood did you use. 1 1/2 or 2? Loved Sam supervising there.

Well I got the go ahead as the Forest Service came through finally. She just put one stipulation on me. I have to repair her Mirror Dinghy that she built with her Dad in the 60's so she can go sailing. So that's not a bad trade off. I get some current Fb and epoxy experience on a boat for a little delay.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom! Sam is a great helper and supervisor.

The console took almost 2 full sheets, about 1 3/4 anyway. My nesting isn't as good as Jacques.

I can't wait to see you start a build. Let's get with it :P Did you ever decide on which boat?

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:59 pm
by TomW
Yea as of right now it is going to be the C17 stretched to 18' and widened 5% to go with the 18'. It will also be a center console instead of a cabin, if I want a cabin later I can always grind the seams off and rebuild as no frames are being changed. Being me I will of course make someother changes. :lol: Plans are in hand. I have ordered and looked at the plans of the OB17, OB19, C19 and C17 before deciding.

Tom

PS the Mirror has to come first hopefully only a month. :cry:

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:45 pm
by WobblyLegs
Lucky_Louis wrote:Good move by prewarming the part A and part B. You supposedly get better expansion ratios that way (even though Wobbly Legs testing seeming to dispel that)
Interesting that you mention that - when I was mixing my foam, I could tell that it was getting ready when a) the sound of the stick in the cup started 'clunking' against the side rather than 'clicking' and b) it all started to get rather warm!

I think that the heat generated by curing offsets any ambient temperature issues, and even though I did mine last winter, it got really warm after pouring.

Larry, doesn't it just suck how the dust from the foam sticks to you when cutting/sanding it?

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, doesn't it just suck how the dust from the foam sticks to you when cutting/sanding it?
I didn't mention that part :oops: I try to focus on the positives. But yeah, I was covered from head to toe with the sticky dust. I couldn't brush it off and I couldn't blow it off. It's still stuck to the handsaw too. Weird stuff. I haven't sanded it and don't intent to.

As to warming it up, I put a gallon of A and B in the sun about 0730, and let it sit until about 1300. It was a good warm 80 degrees, and worked like a champ. Then I ran out of that and had to pull 2 more cans out of the cold shed. They were probably at 50 degrees. I did a test batch with it cold and it performed as well as the warm mix. It just gives you about 15 more seconds of stirring time, but at both temperature it expanded the same, in about the same amount of time. Give or take 30 seconds.

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:06 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:I couldn't brush it off and I couldn't blow it off.
Only two things work on that: vacuum it off, or go take a shower/swim. I found the foam pouring exercise very satisfying - you can literally watch it happen!

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got re-supplied with foam and Sam is ready to get with it. He likes watching the foam :lol:


Image

We got it all poured and mostly trimmed this afternoon. Not much chance of sinking now, we think :D

Image

We started fitting the sole pieces also. That's what we'll work on tomorrow. Supposed to be 80 degrees.

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:53 pm
by colonialc19
Cracker, always enjoy reading your post, very informative and your craftsmanship and attention to detail are inspiring. Keep up the good work, cant wait to see some more pics of the console I'm always looking for ideas.

Daniel

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Daniel! I'm looking for ideas, too :wink: We're saving the console, for the nasty days of winter to come. Today was like spring, so we worked outside.

Sam and I got all the sole panels fitted, and all the holes cut for the chase tubes. Sam checked it all out real good and he thinks it will probably do, for amateurs :D

Image

We can fill in the gaps easily with thickened epoxy or foam, or both.

The stern tubes we had to cut short, to fit in the sole panel, but we will use couplings to extend them back higher.

Image

After we got everything to fit, we pulled the panels back out and gave the bottoms a coat of epoxy.

Image

I'm about wore out from wrestling those panels around :help: But, they are ready to glue down.

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:01 pm
by Dougster
Looks like Sam's damn beside hisself over those panels. I'm inclined to agree. Great job on getting the holes cut to match up so well. You're the man. This week I'm "borrowing" your idea on hanging my one last frame, that's below the sole. At least I think it was you, that used a 2by4 to hold the frames up across the stringers. Yeah, had to be you. Get Sam to calm down or he'll need to be breathing in a paper bag. The boy's all fired up.

Almost through with all the frame/stringer/fillet/tape stuff Dougster

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:08 am
by TomW
Nicely, done Larry. Looks really nice. Those darn panels look like they will be a challenge for me also on the C17/18. Wrestling 1/2" ply nearly half a sheet at a time will beat anyone up after awhile.

Start on the Mirror tomorrow. Little more damage than I hoped for.

Best as always, Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:23 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks great, Larry. Nice fit around the pipes. Nothing less than what we all expected out of you!

BTW, did Sam just jump in for a photo op, or did you have to hoist that big boy up?

Huck

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone.

It took a lot of measuring for us to figure out those holes. We are happy with the results, but you wouldn't think it would be a day's work :doh: It was.

That idea is patented now, Dougster. You have to post pictures if you use it.

Sam just jumps in Huck. He goes where I go, if I let him. He weighs 100 lbs. so I try to avoid hoisting him anywhere.

Tom, those sole panels are a load. All but the bow section are well over 1/2 sheet, 1 is 4X5, 1 is 4X6 and 1 is near 4X7. All 1/2 ply. It is a good day's exercise, and another day recovering :wink: Took a couple of beers to get those done, and we're not finished yet.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:25 pm
by Vman777
Larry - coming along very nice!!! :D Blackjack is going to be one sweet ride when it's done!!

I know who to call for some plumbing :lol:

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Speaking of beer, I guess I should mention my foaming incident :oops: Just for educational purposes. I almost wish this had happened to O-Show, or Dougster, as they could describe it much better than I, and it would be easier for me to laugh at.

All went well until near the end of the job. There I was stirring a full cup of just mixed foam for a few more seconds before pouring. Stir, stir, stir... and I somehow went off on a daydream while stirring, and didn't come out of it until the foam erupted out of the cup, and covered both my hands and arms, and the side of the boat 8O It got really hot, and really big, real fast 8O And there I was with foam mittens, elbow length and 8" thick :oops:

And let me tell you, it was an SOB to get it all cleaned up :!: Burnt, sticky, immobile, then bathed in acetone for good measure. Man o man, it was not fun :cry: Sam was no help and I was home alone.

The only good thing about it was that Sam was standing way back. That would have been terrible. Avoid this mistake at all costs!

This foam stuff, while simple, requires your complete attention to the matter at hand. You cannot afford a 30 second daydream:oops:

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
David, thanks, I owe you big. You can call me for anything :D

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:24 pm
by TomW
Larry feel for you and the foam, cannot even begin to imagine the mess. I had a small mess with one of those foam insulation cans one time, but nothing like that. Thank goodness acetone dissolves the stuff.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:47 pm
by asweany
Larry. Your boat is looking great. We are having an ice storm in K.C. Lost power. Being married, I am sure you know that the heat, refrig, and
TV take priorities over the shop when it comes to the generator. I am hoping to get some of my students to help turn the hull over during Xmas break. I noticed that it appears that you finish paint the bottom only before completing the inside. Is this correct? When do you paint the top sides? Tonight I sanded by fireplace and candle light. Very relaxing. My first mate decided it was warmer laying with mom in the heat, rather than work in the shop. As always, thanks for all your help. PS Sometime can you have the wife take the pictures of Sam and You working on the boat. It would be nice to have a face to go along with Cracker Larry!!! Asweany

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:45 am
by o-show
Ha ha ha. Sorry to laugh about the foam but I'm glad it happened to somebody else and not me. I was doing real good lately accident wise and then while I was fairing Sunday night I reached over to grab my straight edge and forgot I was standing on a step stool. I fell off and of course I wasn't wearing shoes. I landed on a hardened-epoxy soaked chip brush I never picked up and now have a quarter size flapper of flesh dangling off my left heal. As luck would have it this happened about 10 seconds before my wife walked into the garage to check on me (she does this often for some reason, It might have something to do with my broken toe or the time I tried to....... never mind, long embarasing story that required stitches) She must have asked me 15 times If I needed to go to the emergency room. I stopped swearing and running around like a scalded dog just long enough to lie and tell her I was ok. The best part of this is that whenever she tells me to go on a diet I explain to her that my fat is a protective layering in place to guard my tender inards from serious injury. She just nods her head in a condescending way and says " Uh, yeah, right". If I actually finish my beast I'll name it "Sangria", "itchy",or "blood lust".

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:53 pm
by topwater
o-show you crack me up. Between you larry and sam i never stop laughing. :lol:

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, yeah acetone cuts it pretty good, sure glad I had some. But having to get the can off the top shelf, while wearing a pair of thick foam casts, from elbows to fingertips, somewhat sticky and a lot hot :doh: And once it's off the shelf, it's on the floor, after bouncing off head. And then to get the cap off of it, using teeth, bench vise, one elbow and one foot :?: Those acetone caps aint easy!

And after the top is off, then what :doh: Can you then hold the can with both feet and pour it onto your hands :?: A task not to be dismissed, although Sam found some humor. Anyhow, it was a learning experience.

Asweany, thanks. Yes, the bottom is completely finished. The topsides have about 3 coats of primer, maybe 4, I forget. It's getting scuffed up from us working around it, and there are more holes to drill, and I've got to fit the gunwales to the sheer, which will make a mess. And my foam spill :help: So outside finish paint will be the last thing I do. I don't like cameras much, but there are a few pictures posted here already, you just have to look around :) Maybe I'll post another, but my wife is prettier :D

O-Show, you and I need to hook up. Someone guard the women and children 8)

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:47 pm
by chicagoross
I think the foam mittens story beats all of my favorite epoxy stories! Imagine if you were alone, or didn't happen to have some acetone on hand. Thanks for the story, Cracker Larry, I'll try to avoid doing a sequel to that!

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:32 pm
by Dougster
God Almighty I don't ever want the opportunity to describe it any better 8O I bet that's one of those things that are only funny later. I wanna foam my hull too when the time comes, and will keep the image of you and the foamplosion in mind. Your thread is terrific by the way, and I intend to take time to read through it again from the start very soon, as it is so helpful. Oh, and in respect for your 2by4 Framecaster patent, pictures will be posted this weekend :) Give my respect to Sam

Thought he looked fine laying across that sole Dougster

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:49 pm
by TomW
Holy cow I can't wait to start the big boat. I ordered everything to fix the Mirror today. Maybe by the time I finish the C17/18 I won't weigh 290 and be 6' 3" anymore, I'll have scraped off skin like O-show, burned off skin from the foam and hit my head with the can of acetone like Larry, and cut and sanded myself several times which I'm sure I'll do. :D

Happy building guys! Ain't it fun! :!:

Tom

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:27 am
by o-show
like I wrote before, It's a good thing we don't all live close together. I do enough stupid stuff on my own without somebody egging me on. Larry, did you ever post the pirate story? or did I miss it? the boat is looking awesome by the way. You are making it for somebody else right? I'm sure you'll be sad to see it go.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:07 am
by mecreature
that boat is looking awsome.



those 30 second daydreams are wonderful and seem so real

... but only at the right time.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:52 pm
by gunner
I'm glad someone other than me also makes mistakes! SWAMBO got much enjoyment reading this. She beleives only I do things like that. THank you for sharing Larry-

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Imagine if you were alone, or didn't happen to have some acetone on hand.
I was almost alone. A dog isn't much help :doh: Without acetone, I would have been screwed, and glued.

Dougster, Sam says thank ya :D

Tom, there is more than one blood stain on this boat. Sure to be more. :help:

O-Show, thanks! The pirate story must wait for a campfire. My attorney has advised me to shut up. And no, I'm building this one for me :D

Thanks, Mecreature. Do you have a better name than that? If not, get yourself a nickname :wink: I have a hard time typing it. Not even sure where I went on that daydream, I only remember waking up :!:

Gunner, everyone I know does stuff like this. Of course they all drink and smoke too. It's just that most of them won't tell you about it :lol:

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:19 pm
by TomW
Larry you get out fishing or hunting in this nice weather. It has been georgeous up here. Lakes are to low to fish, but the hunting has been good for my freinds. I just go along and enjoy the outdoors do to the meds I'm on. They got two 300 lb pigs and a 400 lb bear in the last week.

Your boat is looking great, you made a good decision not finish painting it till you had all the inards in. Oh well a little acetone will take off the foam. Did you see Kingfishes console it doesn't have the stages like you and I are doing but it is very nice.

Will your steering be on the left or right, I'm undecided as I draw up my console, cars are always left, but I docked big boats on the right normally. I value your insight.

I'll be posting pictures of the Mirror rebuild starting next week. Don't know if you know this little sailboat from England. Having learned sailing in Charleston you may. There are over 70,000, built and class racing all over. Deb built it with her Dad in the 60's, It is a great learning boat as it has great mainsail adjustability with cuningham, vang, etc. Jib with adjustments and a spinnaker. We unforutanely didn't have a garage to keep it in till recently so just had it covered on 4x4's outside. Leaves have gotten up on the gunnels and dry rot has set in on the side panels which I have to replace. There is also some dry rot on the transom.

So once I fix this(a month?) I get to start on the big boat. :D

Regards Tom

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, the weather is beautiful, too beautiful. 80 degrees, sunshine and flat calm. We need some rain.

But yeah, I'm lucky enough to live in the woods and can shoot deer and hogs in the yard if I want. My property joins with 5,000 acres of Georgia Pacific timber land so hunting is easy. I'm in the outdoors as soon as I walk outside. I'm 1/3 mile off the road and my nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away through the swamp. I can shoot a high powered rifle in any direction from my porches and no one will call the police.

There is hardly enough water around now for freshwater fishing. I haven't been in the salt for a couple of weeks, but trout and spot tails are biting great inshore and I hear the offshore bite has been fabulous. This is the best time of year for saltwater fishing here.

As to the steering, I prefer mine centered. On a boat this size it doesn't really matter, and in some locations, depending on local currents or lack there of, and docking arrangements, and prop rotation, one side may be preferred over the other. But we have strong tidal currents that reverse every 6 hours and I always maneuver and dock into the current if possible, so no side is favored. I can just tell what the boat is doing better from the center of it.

Now, the other advantage to centering it, is that when the weather goes to crap and everyone is getting wet, you get to sit in the center of the console's protection, and a couple of your buddies (or better yet, girlies)will huddle up on each side of you and protect you even further :wink:

I didn't learn sailing in Charleston BTW. Born and raised 100 miles south of there, in Savannah Georgia ( Thunderbolt, GA, Wilmington Island, GA) First learned to sail at the Savannah Yacht Club. Same as Ted Turner. I know the Mirror, but never sailed one. We sailed mostly Lightning, Laser and Sunfish in the one design classes. The Lightning nationals are held here every year, as was the Summer Olympics a few years back.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:26 pm
by TomW
Sorry for the slip on Charleston, I knew Savannah but went blank when typing. :doh: You had said one time about learning at the Savannah Yacht Club.

Sounds like your place is like mine, I have a valley of 35 acres all surrounded by Nantahala National Forest. My mailbox is a mile up a forest service road to the main road. Nearest neighbor half a mile up the FS road except for the one a 1/4 mile down the valley, who has 4 acres. I look down on the valley from a ridge at 2400 ft.

HEAVEN :!:

Thanks for your thoughts on the console, unfortunately I only have one girlie :lol: though and I'm even designing in a PP for her in the console. It may only be a 5 gal. bucket and she may have to shrink a little, keep the door open and bang her head on the ceiling but it works. :lol:

Tom

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:32 pm
by TomW
Larry don't know if you have your steering yet, but saw this deal on e-bay today as I was going through doing research. Teleflex wheel and steering like we want for that price. They only show the two sizes but say they have the others available. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SS-132-T ... p1638.m118

Don't imagine they'll last long.

Tom

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, it sounds like the only difference between me and you is the ridge. This is flat land. We call it Low Country. My mailbox is 1/2 mile from the house. So is my trash pickup. Nantahala is beautiful, just too far from salt water for me.

I saw that steering on EBay, thanks :D I've got a watch list for everything I still need. They have some great deals! I've got to set the console in the boat to get an accurate cable measurement before I can order.

Edited to add: I couldn't have a wife who couldn't use a bucket :lol:

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:16 pm
by TomW
I know Low Country, I lived in Goose Creek, SC north of Charleston when it was mostly swamp for a couple of years, 30 years ago. Learned all about your southern holpitality of heat, humidity, palmetto bugs and other swamp creatures. :lol: Last I heard they have about made it a parking lot. Man I'm telling my age here.

Regards, Tom

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:00 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:Tom, there is more than one blood stain on this boat. Sure to be more. :help:
Hey Larry, just think of it as DNA proof-of-ownership...

I doubt anyone here has not caught a fingertip or knuckle on a piece of cured epoxy-glass protruding somewhere (or worse). I have a box of sticky plasters in the boat, so I don't have to interrupt work when it happens.

To echo other's comments here, it sure is a fine looking boat.

Sorry about the foam spilling on the side though, but it's easy to sand off.

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, I know Goose Creek well. I have a friend who lives there.

Thanks Tim . The foam was just a learning experience, now that it's past. For about 30 minutes it was no fun at all, but we've fully recovered :D

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:03 pm
by Oceola
Larry,
Funny (now) story about the foam.

Suggestion...next time you mess with foam put on your newely purchased elbow length nitril gloves...lots easier to get off when things get hot.

Frank

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:22 pm
by Daddy
Probalby not as good as marine foam but there is an outfit up here that sprays closed cell foam into the walls of buildings for insulation, sure would be a quicker way to get your hull foamed with or without daydreams, prob ably take about 5 minutes, guy insists its the same stuff. However, guess I will stick with CG approved but it sure looks tempting.
Daddy

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:42 pm
by TomW
Daddy, seen that foam going into walls neat stuff. Wish we could use it. Probably is similar or same stuff. Just don't know. Neat equipment they have to blow it in. Really high insulation factor. They still use some kind of saw to cut it off even with the studs.

Tom

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:42 am
by TomW
Larry one of those nights. Been thinking about the scupper situation. How far above the waterline is your sole. If it is a couple of inches then I would not have any quams about going out the sides. If it is at the waterline I would run them out the transom. Think about where they were on your fishing boats. I know on any big boat I was on they were always at the sole which was above the waterline 8" to .... I'll bet if you think about it you'll remember that also. Maybe? For scuppers at the water line it's best to drain to the lowest point which is the transom, even if it is only a 1/4-1/2" over the 2' of the transom box.

I also hate holes in the sides if the water line is at or near the sole, water can come in as well as go out, I hate standing in water when I don't have to. Where as scuppers through the transom has less chance of coming in and water will always drain out.

Hope what I wrote was logical above. :doh:

Oh by the the way has Goose Creek really been Citified. It was such beautiful place when we lived there. Long open spaces, etc. You know. You said your freind lived there. Has he been there long or has he seen the development in the last 30 years. Just interested as Deb and I had some good times down there.

You said you get trash picked up 1/2 mi. from your house, lucky you. I've got to take ours 15 miles into the dump(recycling center) in town. Your even civalized down there. :lol:

Respectfully, Tom

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:14 am
by Cracker Larry
Tom, I need to give more thought to the scuppers :doh: Bad weather for boatbuilding this weekend, but we finally got a little rain.

Goose Creek has sort of been swallowed by Charleston, North Charleston actually. Yes, it is citified :help:

My friend has been there about 15 years, since he retired from the Navy.

We used to have to haul our trash to the county dumpsters, but we've had roadside pickup about 2 years. The road is just a long way from the house.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Clear, windy and cold today but we got back at it and got a little more done.

We've got all the sole panels now precoated with epoxy and the butt blocks for the splices installed on each. Sam caught up on some sleep while I did this :lol:

Image


Image

Here Sam is layin in wet glue drippings, again :help:

And we got the aft panel glued in the boat. This takes a lot of glue!
Notice I had to cut the foam to allow for the butt splice blocks under the sole. No fun, that was.

Image

At least we got one glued down. This is where I hoped to end yesterday, but the rain cut yesterday short. :D OK, we needed rain, what's a lost day.

We did work on the console some, cut it 2" narrower, 2" shorter, making some compromises.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:55 pm
by Dougster
Hey I didn't realize the sole needed butt blocks, but it makes sense. No way to clamp 'em on the boat, so maybe the foam under there gives you some support to weight the sole down on top of the blocks. Looks like it's a little fussy, getting the foam just right, the butt blocks to meet just so, Sam to hold still, and then that weird white stuff on the ground. We see that in South Texas and we get all upset and go inside. 'Course, we get over it after a while.

Says you can't stay upset in Texas Dougster :)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:04 am
by TomW
Everything looks good. Sorry you had to take time to cut out for the butt blocks, always some little complication to add time. :cry:

Glad you got some rain. We did two an 1" maybe and then woke up the white stuff blowing and howling winds this morning. Snow didn't amount to much.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dougster, this is my first sole installation, but I figured I should build it just like the bottom, only upside down. I've been known to be wrong, also known to overbuild things, but this seems right to me :doh: I've installed a set on each panel at the forward edge, using clamps. I hope when I lay them they will lay flush without using screws, trying to avoid holes, but I'll probably have to use a few.

It was a real pain recessing the foam. Next time I'll wrap some plywood in plastic, put it in place as a mold and pour foam around it. That's how you should do it. You don't want to have to grind the foam :wink:

The white stuff isn't snow 8O (thank the Lord!). I'd be in Belize, not here!
It's sand, beach sand. I live on a strange anomoly, it's a sand ridge about 30 miles from the coast. Eons ago, this used to be the sea level, 130 feet higher than it is today, and these were the sand dunes. We find oyster and other sea shells when we dig a hole here. Right across the road the ground is red clay, right next door it is black topsoil, but I have mostly beach sand over a dark topsoil. The rain brings it to the top. Right up the road is an extension of the ridge and there are a few hundred acres protected as a state park. It is a notable habitat for the endangered Gopher Tortoise and we have a couple dozen of them on our property. Sadly, the gophers best friend and room mate is the diamondback rattlesnake, and we have too many of those. :help:

Tom, I should have thought about those butt blocks when I poured the foam. This was a lot of unnecessary work. Live and learn. Next time.. :D

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm
by TomW
Larry, try cinderblocks on the joints to hold them flat instead of screws. If everything fits right they shold hold them flat till the glue dries. Only if it doesn't look like the blocks are working would I go to screws. You always cut everything to pretty good tolerances so don't know why the blocks wouldn't work. Are you also going to cover the sole with 6oz woven if so then I wouldn't worry about the screws. I will cover mine just for overall protection. A quick coat of QF and then Tuff Coat.

My .02 for the day

Tom

PS: I think the screws would be easier than lifting the cinder blocks. :lol: Or you can try to get Sam to lay his 100 lbs across the seams! :D

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, cinderblocks is what I used for the panel itself, and I'm only going to screws if it doesn't look good at the splice points. I would like to avoid screws if I can. Screws are easy initially, but then they have to be filled, and sanded, and filled, and sanded...We'll see how it works out, I guess.

I've already bought 9 oz. woven to cover the sole. Hope that's OK. I used 12 oz. biax on the GF16 and it's a tough SOB. No problem if you drop the anchor in the boat.

Sam will lay anywhere I ask him to, and stay there until I ask him to move, but I don't want him to become a permanent part of the boat :lol: I'd rather get my wife to stand on it :wink:

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Another decision I've been pondering. Do yall ever ponder?

I think I need to install some backing plates on the sole bottom before I glue this next section down. I'm thinking I need some backing for the helm seats/ or leaning post, need to make a decision there:doh: and the T-top that's coming in the near future. Any ideas on thickness and dimensions for these plates? Not having either T-top or leaning post in hand makes it harder to decided what to do and where to put them, but I need to go ahead do something that would generically handle whatever I later decide, so I can move forward.

Any ideas on placement for the T top backing? All opinions welcome. You folks with leaning posts or pedestal seats, or T-tops, did you install backing under the sole?

Thanks.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:51 pm
by Lucky_Louis
.... but I don't want him to become a permanent part of the boat Laughing I'd rather get my wife to stand on it Wink
:lol: :lol: :lol:

FWIW, I didn't use any backing for the console or the seat. Lot's of #12 SS screws and some 3m5200. I would pick up the boat by either the seat or the console with confidence. T-Top should be no different. Bond to sole with at least 4 screws per leg, she ain't going nowhere. 1/2" Marine Grade sole right?

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, it's 1/2" 1088 meranti.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:41 pm
by TomW
T-tops put a lot of pressure on there fittings. I've always through bolted them with a 3/4" backing plate also attached to console with same. It can be under some tremendous forces in a storm so must be fastened down especially well. The professionally ones I've seen installed are through bolted, the ones on the web I have looked at also require through bolting of the sole and attachment to the console. Basically that means leaving some hand holes in the sole under the console so as to be able to get to the T-top stantions.

As far as the console what Lucky said is fine Screws and fiberglass to sole.

Hope that helps on your planning.

My second .02 for the night.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:55 pm
by Q
Cracker Larry wrote:Another decision I've been pondering. Do yall ever ponder?
Heck...I ponder all the time. I've been a wonderin' how I missed this thread until now.....perhaps 'cause I didn't have a power boat? Wasn't building one? I went through every page this weekend, in shifts. Volumous information. The TV was never turned on over the course of the entire weekend. I occasionally watch a football game...NOT THIS WEEKEND!

No, my task this weekend was to bring the love of my life back home for restoration...and that she is. The next project is ready to go...I'll take pictures tomorrow to get that thread started. I intend to rebuild that boat with the foresight that she'll last me offshore the rest of my years on this Earth. It was quite a task to bring her back from where she was stored....

I gotta ask a question: I haven't seen this Center Console for over a year, and in that time I had joined this forum, and built a D5. I used to live on this boat every weekend at Sebastian, since 1985...and I felt I was looking at her for the first time Sunday. Rather, looking at her possibilities. Have I got BBV?

What a wonderful thread/tutorial! I was on every word, Larry. Can I git dibs on the next litter? :D

I have stories of "Monster Hole", and shedding water for the next one as well....I am looking forward to your remedy for the scuppers with intense interest.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm glad someone besides me ponders :D Just don't do it while you're stirring foam 8O

You may have it. We'll have to watch you for a while and see if advanced symptoms develop.

Sam says he'll be glad to stud out 8)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm not concerned about the console. I'll glue, fillet and tape it in place, just like the rest of the boat. No problem.

T-tops and leaning posts take a lot of stress and you can't fillet and tape them. Figure about 7' of leverage, structure plus antennas, lights and such on top, maybe outriggers. 2 or 3 guys hanging on and getting tossed around, call it 600 lbs. X 7 = 4200 lbs on the base. It's got to be solid.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:04 pm
by Dougster
Well, now that you bring it up, yes, I ponder quite often. In fact, I find the great joys of this boat building thing are the ponder opportunities it provides. There are the drive to work ponders, and the drive homes. The drift off to sleep ponders and the early a.m. black dog ponders; the this is a boring conversation think I'll ponder ponders. And of course there are those unfortunate foam ponders. You seem to ponder extremely well, giving me pause for further ponders.

Now got to ponder backing plates Dougster

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:47 pm
by steve292
I find myself leaning on a fairing board...pondering why did I ever start this?...then I ponder a bit more, & then I know.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:24 pm
by TomW
Larry forgot to say I also "ponder" all the time. Dang if I wasn't doing it sanding the Mirror the other day and hit a high spot and sanded a hole through the bottom. That plywood they supplied in the kit back it the 60's was only 1/8-3/16" fir, I've found out the hard way. 40 grit goes through it real fast if your not paying attention.

Tom

PS: When I said you will need to leave some holes in the console side of the sole to reach and through bolt the T-top, then just some butt blocks for small peices to patch the holes and cover and paint. No one will be the wiser and you can alway re-cut them if you need to. Or just a couple layer of your 9oz fiberglass to make the deck waterproof again. Whichever you want.

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:25 am
by tech_support
Larry, if you do not want to through bolt (not having an inspection hole to reach under), the you still have a couple options.

The first is to glass some aluminum stock under the sole, you would then tap it for bolts where ever you decide to mount things. This is a picture of a guy re-building the same type of Aquasport as ours. You can see he is using the aluminum; but he took it a step further and bolted the aluminum plate to the stringers.

Image

Image

Another option is to double up a few blocks of plywood (the wider the better) under where you will mount the t-top. Drill out holes that are double the diameter of the bolts you will use, then set them in the holes upside down and fill the hole with epoxy. The only downside aI see to this is that you have nuts and washers exposed on the mounts - easy to scrape your feet (or paws) :wink:

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:37 am
by Tommy D
Hi Larry glad to see the boat is going well. Just noticed that you are putting the soles in- I have been watching your build carefully and thought that I might add my 2 cents (as you say over there) if its worth anything.

I have finally got round to starting to redo my sole where it has lifted off the stringers in front of the console - a combination of factors I guess the main one being a 2 legged T-Top and prob inexperience when I glued the sole down.

Anyways, I have decided I am going to do a proper job and not just a quick fix and I am going to cut out the sole in front of my console and reglue it. I am then going to make the front half of my sole about 3 inches higher than the back - so you have to step up onto it as you move to the front of the boat. I may or may not add a compartment between the 2 stingers and the console and the front bulkhead - where I will be able to have a cool box that I can slip in and out, or a cover if I just want a flat floor.

My reasons for raising the sole at the front are as follows:

If you have a couple of extras in the boat/ or back the boat up, or everyone comes to the back of the boat to help you manhandle the next world record fish, and/or you don't have good scuppers one always seems to get some water coming into the boat.

I don't mind this at the back as it helps wash out fish blood etc, but it will be really nice to have somewhere to just chuck stuff or lie down that wont get submerged.

Maybe I built my boat too heavy, or my scuppers are rubbish, but thought I would add my thoughts as I am always keen to help a fellow OD builder.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:20 am
by Vman777
Larry, you could always do a long cleat under the sole running from port to starboard or aft to stern depending on where the post are located for the T-top, and use T-nuts under and still run a bolt through without the using a nut, just use a lock washer on the top side when screwing the bolts into the T-nut. The long cleats will add strength and take away any undue stress when the T-Top flexs. Just a thought.

David

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
It seems that most of us ponder. Maybe it's another symptom. Nah, I've always pondered things.

Lots of good suggestions, thanks for them :D I'll try to reply to all.

David, T-nuts would be great if I had the T top and seat in hand, so I'd know where exactly to install them. Maybe I'll go ahead and buy the leaning post, but the top will have to wait a while. I need a trailer and an outboard first. and a lot of other things. I was thinking of doing exactly like you say with the long cleats, one down each side, one across the back.

Tommy D, I appreciate your input, having built and used the boat already. 2 cents US isn't worth much, but your opinion is. I've heard some complaints about the drainage in the OD and this has me worried. My sole is 1/2" higher than plans, hoping that will be enough. I'm thinking I better see how the boat floats before I cut any scupper holes. This won't be a lightweight model either. My forward deck area will be raised to accommodate a large fuel tank, with fish boxes on each side. I think a 4 legged T top is the way to go, with a couple of braces to the console. Good luck with your rebuild!

Joel, I like both ideas, I just might go with the metal plates glassed to the undersides. Then I could thread them in place later where needed. The upside down bolts would also be good, except for those exposed nuts :( Maybe use Acorn nuts? Most fittings are countersunk from the top side though. Not ideal. Not sure how that guy will get a sole to lay flat over that aluminum.

Tom, the access holes are also a valid idea and one often seen on production boats. I don't want 6 permanent inspection ports, but cutting them out and re-glassing them is worth consideration.

Steve, I do my best and worst pondering over a fairing board. Sure glad that's behind me now :D

Dougster, it seems you and I have some more pondering to do. It appears the general consensus is that we need some backing plates, just as I suspected. :lol: Dang it, I guess I'll have to cut more foam. Mold yours in, Dougster.

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:11 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Rather than cut your foam Larry, try laying the backing plate in the right place and give it whack with a mallet or rubber hammer. I think you'll find the foam dents just fine.

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Great idea, Lucky :!: :!: I hadn't thought of that :doh: That changes the labor and misery significantly! I'll try that first thing, thanks.

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:55 pm
by Lucky_Louis
That's what this forum is all about.. many minds are always better even if some are pondering some of the time.:wink:

:idea: ... also, try tracing the plate with a sharp knife so it only dents where you want it to.

On my boat, I kept the foam where the blind butt blocks (BBB's) were going to go a bit lower than everywhere else, maybe an 1" or 2" below the bottom of the sole. As long as I got my 8 cubic feet of foam in the hull, I didn't care too much where it went.

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
LL, we've got almost 24 cubic feet of foam in this one. It's packed!

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:44 pm
by WobblyLegs
I'd think that whacking the foam as Louis suggests might break the cell structure of it quite deep into the foam (and I hate using a hammer).

For shaping foam I used the RO sander, with a very coarse grit at high speed - you might be able to make space that way? Very dusty though, you will HAVE to use a mask! Use a Dremel in the corners...

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:47 pm
by TomW
Larry just had a thought use your Router and route it out. Keep a vacumn hose near it to keep the dust down.

Tom

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
A router is what I've been using. The dust is terrible 8O

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
On my boat, I kept the foam where the blind butt blocks (BBB's) were going to go a bit lower than everywhere else, maybe an 1" or 2" below the bottom of the sole.
You planned ahead much better than I did. I forgot to do that :doh:

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:47 pm
by Q
Problem is...Sam hasn't got opposible thumbs to hold the shop-vac.....to suck that dust up. :roll:

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:05 pm
by Chris Sopotnick
Cracker - not sure if anyone mentioned toggle bolts.... install backing plate where you estimate base of T-Top, use stainless toggles to bolt hardware through. Just make sure t-top doesn't line up on a stringer (if it does use screws).

I didn't want to cut an inspections plate in my new boat and didn't think we could reach all nuts from one plate so we went the toggle bolt route...has held up to 7 years of wear and tear in some pretty bad weather.

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:59 am
by Cracker Larry
Not a bad idea, Chris. Did you fill the large holes the toggles require with epoxy?

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:07 am
by Cracker Larry
I've been plugging away the last couple of days and nights. The weather has been good for everything except boat building. We've had 7" of rain and needed every one. Windy and getting cold again. Been cold and warm, off and on, and wet.

We stayed up late, night before last. Real late, until about 0400 or so. started about 3 the afternoon before :? Had the heater on in the shop, pouring rain outside, cozy in, with a full bottle to start with :D

I got all the console parts fine tuned, and pre-coated the insides of all the small parts. And cut cleats for all the major seams, and pre-coated them, and glued them all on... couldn't sleep, might as well work...

Image

Notice the widest panel in the center of the bench has a backing block glued to it. That is for the steering hub to mount. The wheel mounting takes a lot of stress.

We've also been working on the soles, and got the T-Top backing figured out, I hope. I'm using 1" laminations of plywood in 10X10 blocks, where I think the legs will attach to the sole. That's in addition to the 1/2" sole. We've cut and glued the blocks in place, and recessed the foam for them to fit. Again I used a router to recess the foam, and a good dust mask, and safety goggles, that says a lot for me. Nasty stuff, that foam dust :wink: ...


Image

Stayed up late again last night, and got a lot of the console glued together, and some fillets made...

Image

Today I got the second sole panel glued down. We didn't need any screws at the butt splices, glad for that, everything fit smooth and flush, just used SHS clamps for a perfect fit. This does use a lot of glue. Going to need to order some more epoxy, again :help:

Image

We would have glued down the other panels also, but we're out of SHS clamps. That will wait a day or so.

Received the fuel fill/vent fitting I ordered, real nice :!: And have ordered some hatches for the console. Things are starting to come together :D

Wishing you all the merriest of Christmas, or your holiday of choice 8)

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:06 am
by robbiro
Larry,
BlackJack is really looking great. I am amazed at the amount of detail that you have in this boat 8O . I like the console ideas and how nice that it looks already. Keep up the good work and enjoy the rain, we have had about 5" over the last week or so and you need it worse than we do. We average about 52" per year and are about 15" behind before this last week and I know that is about half of what you were behind. Hope this lets you float your boat a little boat better.

Keep on Buildin' (you are teaching so much through your build) :)

Robbie

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you and all of your kin including Sam and Delilah

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:29 am
by Dougster
Great pics Larry, and very helpful. I'm sure a lot of us learn things from your thread. Including shame. I mean, good grief, how can anyone build a boat and keep a shop that neat 8O Shames me to the marrow. I may need to ponder it awhile. Not shame, that won't bear ponder, but the neat shop thing. Maybe if I could keep mine neater my build would follow suit. 'Course, as with all maybes, maybe not... Anyway, bears ponder. Thanks for all the trouble you take to document and explain your build.

Wishin' you and yours and all the Bateau folks a merry Christmas Dougster

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:36 am
by Q
Dougster's question is a valid one....could it be Sam requires a clean, neat shop? I just started outfitting shop No 3 yesterday (at the Robalo rebuild location)....the other two are a mess. An absolute mess, I tell you.

BlackJack is looking great! I was up 'till 03:00 yesterday morning as well, but I was trying to coax unwilling/uncooperative skrimps into a dipnet with a friend of mine who's a charter Capt.

I'm going to miss early morning sessions glueing and cutting. Thanks for the safety tip on the foam, Larry... you're gonna have to be in a head sea of 6 footers before she'll even flinch!

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:48 pm
by TomW
Wow Larry, I thought I only stayed up late like that, never thought you did. Everything is looking great. Routing does make a mess doesn't it.

Console is going to be great when you finish it. Really like it. Totally functional.

Happy holidays :!:

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Robbie. Strange, but in my area of the state (coastal) we are now exactly even for rainfall, for this year. But probably 50 inches behind over the last several years. The more inland and upper ares of the state are hurting much worse than we are. We could easily use 7 more inches though. Not even a puddle after the first 7 :doh: Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Dougster, we must ponder on. The shop is actually a mess, for me. It is small, only 16 X 20 inside and I've got a lot of stuff in there. If we don't keep it mostly clean we can't even walk, much less find anything. A shop is sort of like a boat. A place for everything and everything almost in it's place :wink: Merry Christmas to you and yours also :D

Q, thanks! I never could figure the point of dipping shrimp one at a time, but at times I've thrown a net and caught less, even dragged a big net and caught less at times, so what the heck. Then again, dipping shrimp one at a time at 0300 is something else again.
Sam don't mind some dirt, but my wife does when he brings it inside and jumps on her bed with it.

Tom, thanks to you for all your suggestions and support. Yep, I have my late nights too. It's 15 minutes until Christmas and I'm about to head for the shop. 36 degrees out, but the propane heater works good :lol: I've put a lot of thought and very little work into the console. Time to do some more work. You aren't one of those Happy Holidays people are you? Merry Christmas :!:

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:44 am
by TomW
Nope Larry I'm a Merry Christmas person. Just Happy Holidays covers all of them for some people I may not respond to till after all of them.

Merry Christmas to you Dori and family :!:

Tom

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:47 am
by Steven
Since you've got 1 1/2" were the T-top legs will be, why not drill oversize holes and fill with epoxy. Then you could tap it for bolts.

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:00 am
by Oceola
Larry,
Have you thought about a cutout at the bottom of the drivers side of the console, as some have done, for toe clearance, when standing up against the wheel?...or don't you need it the way your's is set up?

Merry Christmas to you and yours, and all the "Bateau Boys" and girls too!!!!!!!

Frank

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:08 am
by Cracker Larry
Steven, that's my plan. I might even epoxy a nut and washer at the bottom.

Frank, yes I've pondered that specifically, and may yet do it. You are talking about a recess like under a kitchen counter, right? It's a good idea and allows you to hang on and brace yourself with your toes. I don't see much practical value in the angled foot recesses, better I think if you can wedge a foot in it.

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:19 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks great, Larry. Merry Christmas. I build my first boat at night in the dark. Worked 2nd shift then, and my wife worked 12 hr night shifts. It was the perfect time. I miss being able to do that, now. Even had a good boat building dog then. He loved epoxy and those strings of hardened resin/glass that hung off the edge of the hull. Built in back scratcher! He even enjoyed the occasional beer.

Never managed to keep a shop that clean, though. It's either perfect or a wreck. No in between.

Beautiful building and great ideas,

Huck

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
Merry Christmas, Huck! I don't have another obligation until Jan. 3, so there may be a few more late nights :D I've got a deadline to shoot for now, so I'm going to burn some midnight oil. The weather is about the same either way, 40 degrees and raining, day and night.

Still working on the console in the heated shop 8) Just about got it all glued together. Also made and glued backing plates for hand rails and T-top attachments. In the next day or so I'll take it outside and round over all the edges with a router. That's an outside job.

This is where we're at today...

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I've got the heater running and as soon as this sets up, I'm going back to it again. Might work until daylight :D

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:05 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Looks good Larry you gonna bring it to CR?...No pressure :P ...Richard

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks. That is the plan, Richard. Might make it, might not :doh: The GF 16 is ready to go anywhere though, so I will have a boat at Crystal River either way :D

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:26 am
by jayb01
I think if you put it on about a 4" high by about 3-4" smaller (in every outside dimension) pedestal you could have a nice toe kick all around your console.

Oh, and while your at it add some red LED lights under there for night time accent lighting.

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:27 am
by PastorBob
Larry

Boat is looking Great! Just wanted to drop a note and thank you for all the time you take posting the details. Bob

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Bob. I hope you can get settled down soon! Maybe you'll find a job in the South and can make the builders meet in CR :D

Sam and I are still building away. All the major console components are assembled, the only thing left to build is a dash storage box. Tomorrow. Expecting some hatches to arrive on Monday.

The large bottom compartment we separated into 2 compartments. Forward will be dry storage, accessed from a hatch on the seat. The aft section is sized for 2 Group 27 battery boxes, and chase tubes. Upside down view..

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I forgot the shotgun was there :oops: I was trying to work out some gun racks also.

In between this, we've been working on the sole panels, and just about worked ourselves out of glue again. I was hoping re-supplies would come today. Anyway, we got the 3rd. panel glued down...

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And, glory be, we got the last one done too :D ...

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I also tried filling around my chase tubes with foam to seal them. We only had a little bit of left over foam, need to get some more of that too. The little bit would have done everything just fine, but I overestimated and ended up with this....

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Is 2 ounces enough :?: Is 4 ounces too many:doh: That's OK, I know this sucker is sealed up pretty good anyway.

Now almost out of epoxy, I cut out the motorwell bulkhead and the motorwell sides. They came out nice I think. Tricky fitting at the clamping boards...

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No Dougster, it's not snow on the ground, it's sand :lol: Almost 80 degrees today.

Tomorrow we'll try framing the fuel tank. :D

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:42 am
by Dougster
Well, 80 degrees I can handle. It's 28 and clear here, a beautiful Texas hill country morning. Man you work fast. It will be great having the sole fit, now you can move around in the boat with ease to work. I have company and may not get much done in the next few days, although the guy is kinda handy, so.... :) I could use a fresh eye to deal with my little starboard sheer wiggle problem. The console looks perfect; you make it look so easy. I have the other skill.

Can make dang near anything hard Dougster

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:33 am
by TomW
Wow Larry nice late spring temps to work with. Love the foam football/basketball :lol: Nice work as usual on the sole and console.

Tom

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:57 pm
by Russ5924
PasterBob said in one of his posts he squared off the back of the Transom like you had done. Mine is pretty much squared off now with no tape right now. Just wondering should I round it off tape an square it off later :doh:

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:24 pm
by TomW
Russ you need to tape it. The tape will cause the curvature which Larry and Bob squared off.

Happy New Years

Tom

Oops :oops: missed the part about rounding off follow Bob's instructions below. Fiberglass won't adhere well to a sharp corner like he says. A 1/2" rounding over router bit will do the job if you are comfortable with it.

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:28 pm
by PastorBob
Russ you can not lay glass on a sharp corner and get a good bond. The glass needs a radius aprox 1/2" to lay down over the corner without an air pocket. After you glass your rounded edges it is helpful for the hydrodynamics if the chine edges are made sharp again, this is done by filling with thickened filler and molds... look back on Larry's build to see the process.. BUT DO NOT TRY TO GLASS ON A SHARP EDGE!

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes Russ, just like they said. First you have to have the radius. Do all of your taping and glassing of the bottom and the transom. Then build it back up sharp.

Sam and I are still building. I don't know what I'll do with my time when this thing is ever finished :doh: Probably build another one, I reckon :lol:

Frank, I pondered long enough to come up with a simple solution for the toe recess. Much simpler than other ideas and it's multi purpose, which is always good. This rear lower section of the console is going to be for battery storage, and battery compartments must be vented. So we're going to combine vents with a place for me to hang on with my toes. This is more important than people may think, if they've never run much in rough water. Being able to get a grip with a foot can free at least one hand for holding the beer :D

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We've also got our dash storage worked out and the box built. You need storage for items kept close at hand. Like binoculars, flashlights, charts, notebooks, pens and pencils, wallet, keys, cellphone and handgun. This will work great and makes use of otherwise wasted space.

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And we made some good progress with the bow deck. These are the first frames and decking I've had to figure out myself, without plans. It took a while, but they came out real good Sam thinks...

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And another view of that. Forward of the tank will be the anchor locker, and on each side of the tank will be storage lockers...

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The 2X4s are just temporary spacers.

Once we got all the framing fitted, we started on the decking. This was also tricky and time consuming because it is not to plan. It did work out OK. Mostly thanks to an article in the last Woodenboat on fitting bulkheads using a joggle stick. Neat trick :D

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Now we're going to splice all 3 of these pieces into one panel, using butt blocks underneath.

Getting very low on wood :help: It's going to be close, real close, to have enough to complete everything. There won't be enough scraps left to fill a bucket by the time we're done :D

Tomorrow, the console goes in the boat 8) Hopefully I'll get some more epoxy too.

Happy New Year to all :!: :!:

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:15 am
by TomW
Happy New Year :!: Everything is looking very nice. Good planning and use of space. Really like it.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:36 am
by Oceola
Larry,
Great solution, the toe holds, I like it. Maybe when it's all finished and painted you could put 3/8" rubber edge trim around each cut out to soften them up for when you're barefoot or wearing sandels.

Had another thought too...how about cutting a couple of 1" or 1 1/2" holes somewhere on each the side of the console just below the shelf, and putting in one of those little round louvered aluminum soffit vent covers in each hole...to allow a little air circulation. I think there are a number of places on a lot of boats that could use these little louvered vents just below the upper edge of bulkheads. Dosen't someone make marine grade louvered vent covers???

Happy New Year,

Frank

P.S. I need to send you some of my famous dual purpouse sunscreen/alligator repellent.

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:37 am
by Vman777
Larry, Am I seeing double or did Sam get a buddy?

Well looks like you are about ready to do an auction with your new console, all you need is a glavel :lol: and I see that you put His and hers mouse holes as well :lol:

David

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:03 pm
by topwater
Boat looks great larry.
Idont do alot of woodworking so this is going to sound stupid
but what is a joggle stick ???? :doh:

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all :D

Frank, yes I've been looking at some louver vents. There are plenty available, from $2 to $200 :help: Good idea.Do you have any of the sunscreen with Gator attractants?


Topwater, a joggle stick is hard for me to explain. I'll need to take some pictures. Much harder to describe than demonstrate. It is basically a modified tic stick if you know what that is. It is an old boatbuilding tool, a hundred years or more it seems, but it was new to me too, and I do a lot of woodwork. It is cut impromptu to fit the situation and is made from thin stock or ply, 1/4" or so. It is tapered, maybe 6" at the inboard end to a fine edge at the outboard. It has a series of either stepped notches, labeled 1,2,3,4 or a,b,c,d, or a series of irregular shaped notches. Basically you establish a centerline. The stick needs to be long enough to extend from center to bulkhead edge. You follow the edges with the pointed end and trace around the joggles on to your pattern board. Then you can duplicate it. I'm not doing a good job of describing it. Send me an email to "lteuton at aol dot com" and I'll send you a PDF that makes sense.

David, Sam's always had a companion, that's Delilah. She comes around and checks on progress on occasions, but offers no assistance or advice.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:46 am
by jayb01
Here's a link to using a jog stick from a woodworking forum. It's a zipped PDF file.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachmen ... 1160361025

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:47 am
by Oceola
Larry,
Sorry, the alligator repellent cream is for defensive purposes only. It's a white cream very similar to Zinc oxide...you can put it on your nose, when out boating, to prevent sunburn...and if attacked by an alligator you smear a small round daub of it on his forehead, between the eyes, and put a .357 mag round through it. :lol:

The Jog stick...what a great idea...needs to be in the how to and totorials.

Frank

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:46 am
by Daddy
Look in the latest issue of Wooden Boat Mag for a great tutorial on the joggle stick.
Daddy

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Well, we put the console in the boat yesterday. The console looks great, the boat looks great, but the console in the boat just doesn't work :cry:
It would be real nice in a 27 footer, but it's too big. Too boxy, an abomination to the eyes, so fugly I hesitate to post a picture, hell, it's so fugly I hesitate to even take a picture :oops:

It is seriously too tall, among other things. I'm going to ponder on it a while this morning, and then I'm going to take a sawzall to it and make some modifications :lol:

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:53 am
by TomW
Larry sorry the console didn't work out as expected. The side height or debth to waterline of the sheer probably has a lot to do with that. You don't have the 28" that I have to work with on the C17.

You'll get it to your satisfaction. Watch out for that Sawzall. :lol: You may have kindling.

Tom

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:03 pm
by timoub007
A Sawzall huh? Now you're boat building like me Larry. Next thing you know you'll whip out the chainsaw too.

Sorry to hear it doesn't look right, but I know you will make it your own as with everything else.

Happy New Year!

T

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:01 pm
by davidtx
Sorry to hear about your console Larry. Its probably not any consolation, but it did eliminate any last doubts about my console strategy. I had originally planned to build my console first to get some practice with epoxy and fiberglass. But then I started thinking about a wider, two person console and got lots of feedback about how it would look. The more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that I should wait on the console, do more research on the options and prototype it in an upright boat with the sole in.

BTW - on an earlier post, you talked about the compartments and I saw a shot with the cover with the toe holes on and then one with it off. I'm unclear about how you access the compartments.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:25 pm
by davidtx
davidtx wrote:...Its probably not any consolation...
No pun intended :)

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
davidtx wrote:
...Its probably not any consolation...

No pun intended
That's great :lol: The reason I share my grief is to save you the trouble :wink: The farther you stray from the plans, the more trouble you can expect, based on my experiences.

Tim and Tom, not to worry, I'm a certified expert on a sawzall and I'm not scared to use it :lol: Don't think we'll need the chainsaw, yet, but it's standing by.

I might as well show yall what it looks (looked) like. Next time I think I'll use cardboard first.

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Sam and I pondered it this morning for a long while, and then he hiked his leg on it to tell me how he really felt. We drew some lines and pulled it back out, and started making adjustments.

This was painful to begin sawing on, and we made a lot of marks before we committed. It took 2 New Years Bloody Mary's to develop the courage. :P Then we had at it a variety of saws. First we took 2 1/2" off the base, all around. This made the seat exactly level with the forward deck at 14 inches ...

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After the 2 Bloody Mary's we handled the more tricky stuff with a hand saw and left the sawzall in the box :wink:


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Then we really got serious and lowered the the top end by 7 inches, but still allowing for panel space, viewing angle and water drainage, I hope.. made a nice flower box too :!:

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And we cut a new top to fit. Gave all the new wood a coat of resin on the underside and seams, and glued it all back together...

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The profile is now much different and hopefully more conforming, and it is lowered by almost 10 inches with no real loss in usable space.

Tomorrow we'll see how it looks, in the boat. And if we still don't like it, I've got more saws :lol:

Two things I wish I had done, that is hard to correct now. It would look better if the top was a little narrower than the base, and if the forward end was a little narrower than the aft end. If this one ends up in the burn barrel, that's how I'll build the next one.

Oh yeah, I wanted to show you one more thing. I need something to be proud of. We got a good look at my fillet cross sections with all this cutting, and they sure are pretty 8) Even if I do build a fugly console :P


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Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:45 pm
by Dougster
Wow, neat post Larry. You got it goin' on with saws, whatever kind you use. That cross section cut is cool; great lay up. You'll get it right one way or the other, for sure.

Fond of Bloody Marys himself Dougster

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
BTW - on an earlier post, you talked about the compartments and I saw a shot with the cover with the toe holes on and then one with it off. I'm unclear about how you access the compartments
There will be a hatch to access each compartment. They are on order and should be here in a day or 2. I'm using mostly factory hatches because they are more waterproof than I can build them and probably more cost effective. You'll be seeing them soon 8)

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:04 pm
by robbiro
Build on Larry!! , I am amazed to see how many ideas that you have for the console and how you can see the changes that you need. I know that it will be to your specifications if you can just get Capt. Sam to agree with you instead of telling you what he really thinks about it 8O

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam is usually right. He is my alter ego :lol:

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:16 pm
by TomW
Well I guess Sam told you what he thought of the other style. :lol:

I like the new style. I assume everything still fits and you'll just be looking at them at a different angle.

This one looks like its more in proportion to the OD. I didn't even think about the height factor when we discussed the 42" earlier. On the C17 I should be just 12-15 inches above the shear. Something more in proportion to its design. Cardboard first though me thinks.

Anyway nice days work.

Hope you had a Happy New Years Eve!

Tom

PS Winter has finally arrived 21/2" of snow as of now and still coming down and forecast temps in the teens with windchills in the -numbers. I thought I left that in Boston.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:57 pm
by colonialc19
Larry, thanks for posting. :) I think you may have saved me some trouble with my console planning.
And the crossection pic of the fillet/joint is textbook something to put in tutorials.

Daniel

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:17 am
by Q
Larry, I'm curious about what your T-top is going to look like? You are going with a T-top, right? Not a Bimini? Reason I'm asking is I have found that once you've operated/owned a boat with a T-Top, boats with a plain console look, well...unfinished.

I was picturing your OD in my head with a T-Top with the pic you posted with the console in the boat and I thought it would look quite handsome. :D

...and I almost forgot to ask....Sam is short for Samson, isn't it?

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:48 am
by Cracker Larry
Q, yes it is going to have a T-top. I think the modified console will look a bit better :D

Yep, Sam is Samson and his mate is Delilah 8)

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:51 am
by Cracker Larry
Tom, winter showed up here this morning too. Todays high is only supposed to be about 40 with a wind chill in the teens. Tonight the temps are supposed to be in the teens with wind chill below 0 8O .

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:35 pm
by Lower
Just another Thanks for posting the "console experience". Very helpful.

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:48 pm
by bernd1
Hi Larry,

looking at the first conter console version - it was a good decision to use the saw once again.

But don't give up and don't get discouraged 8)

B.R.
Bernd

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:55 pm
by deedee
absolutely ,
thanks for posting before and after shots. this board is so helpful when it comes to solving problems and gaining insight about ideas. boat looks great!!!!!!!!!! i am still fairing the hull!

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall :D

Don't worry, the words "give up" are not in my vocabulary :lol:

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wow, it sure has been cold in Georgia this week 8O And we've been without power for several days, but Sam and I are still plodding along. Working on the console in the shop, with the propane heater.

UPS has been coming regularly and we are fitting hatches, compass, switch panels, cup holders, and whatever shows up next. This is fun, better than Christmas :D

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Sam has been keeping a close watch trying to keep me from messing up anything else I guess.

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Tomorrow I hope to take the router to her and round over all the edges, then we can glass her up.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:08 pm
by Q
What are those two ss thinghys on either side of the compass? :doh:
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Your compass isn't going to stay installed at that angle, right??

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:13 pm
by jbo_c
Looks like beer holders to me(but not while piloting, of course).

Jbo

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
They are most certainly beer holders. First things first. :lol:

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The compass is perfectly happy at this angle. I may cut an angled base for asthetics, or may not, probably so, but the compass doesn't care. It will work fine like this, it's well within it's range of motion. A good compass has to work going almost straight up or straight down. This is a good compass :wink:

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And a good compass is the second most important thing to a good beer holder. Well, actually I'd put it first. :lol:

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:30 am
by TomW
Looking good guy. i'm glad the compass and beer holders are in now you can go just about anywhere once you insulate the cooler in front. :lol: Nice compass by the way, I like those a lot top notch. 8)

Tom

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:20 am
by Oceola
Larry,

That's a beauty, and as they say. "beauty is in the eye of the beerholder"
But, I'm waiting to see someone put a keg in a console with a nice brass tap mounted on the dash.
Can't wait to see RED.

Frank

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:08 am
by frazoo
With compasss installed, you can hoist as many as you want in the shop, just take a reading/heading before you start and you'll know which direction to crawl at the end of the "work" period :P .! (At least that's what I"d be doing!!)

Looks really good CL, hope mine turns out half as nice.

frazoo

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Frazoo and Frank. I've never liked draft beer, otherwise I might consider that, Frank :lol:

It was a beautiful day in the South today. 75 degrees, sunny...too nice to work on the console. We worked on the boat instead.

We did put the console in the boat to check it's new profile. It is much better after losing 9 inches and getting a different angle. The top now matches the angle of the sheer, and the seat now matches the quarter seats and bow deck. All in all a lot better I think...

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Then we tackled that foam football at the stern chase tubes. That was a mess, but we cut it down flush all around and gave it 2 coats of epoxy. Then we gave it a skim coat of thickened epoxy, and cut some cloth to fit around the tubes, and wet that out. No more worries about this. It is sealed! And then we filleted the sole to the transom, and glassed it up with 2 layers of tape....

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After we got that squared away, not easy working around those tubes, then we started up the starboard side and filleted the sole to the side panel, and taped over it, all wet on wet.

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Now I'm worn out, sore of back, and just like Dougster I'm glad it's cocktail hour :D

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:06 pm
by Spokaloo
You know, I think Im going to stop reading your build, Larry.

I just shoveled 4" of snow off the driveway. 1-3" tonight, and up to a foot between mon night and wed morning...

75 outside.... Jerk....

E

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:47 am
by TomW
75 no wonder Sam looks so sad. He wants out of that winter coat.

The console looks good in the boat. Don't think you could do much better and still have it functional. Wow 9" was a lot, but it looks right now.

Tom

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:10 am
by colonialc19
Cracker, that thing is going to be solid as a rock, (I know thats what your aiming for), nice work , console looks even better in the boat :)

70 here on Monday :D I can smell the epoxy now!

Daniel

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
E, if I should ever happen to be where it snowed, I'd leave :help: That's why Delta was invented :wink: We're going to have a low of 60 tonight and a high of 78 tomorrow :D

Yeah Tom, that's the problem. It has to be large enough to be functional and ergonomically sound, yet still fit the boat. This is about as close of a compromise as I can work out.

Daniel, thanks. It is solid, real solid 8)

My 2 helpers and I attacked the console with the router this afternoon. Using a 3/4 round over bit we went over all the 90 degree edges, which were the side edges. The router makes fast work of this. On the edges other than 90 degrees, I was scared of the router and used the trusty block plane, whick is almost as fast as the router and a lot less intimidating. Then we followed that up with a little RO sander work and it looks like this...


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That sure makes it look better, getting rid of all the sharp edges. Next a little filling and a little tape :D

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:53 am
by Q
I'm lost. I remember back on page 43 or so youi were working on the fuel tank that had just arrived....

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....and this one looks like a belly tank. What did you decide for fuel, ultimately?
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Is it going to be of a different dimension so as to fit, perhaps in the console?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:14 am
by WobblyLegs
Larry, I've been away for a couple of weeks in Africa, and come back to 5 'pages' of new stuff on your boat. WOW! I haven't read the words yet, but the pics show huge progress. Good job!

Just to repeat...

WOW!!! That console looks superb!

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:11 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Africa Tim? That's a great idea, epoxy won't cure during an English winter so you took your boat down to finish it there. Brilliant! South of France or Spain would have worked too... :wink:

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Q, it's the same tank and it's going under the bow deck. It's 40 gallons, kind of large for a console :lol: I had to take it out to glass the sole.

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Thanks Tim! Africa, that's awesome 8) We've been busy for sure. Had to build the console twice :?

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:19 pm
by bermudian
40 gallons? Wow you could run for a couple of days with that amount of fuel. I have the OD16 with a 50hp e-tec and I carry two 6 gallon and one 3 gallon tank and I hardly have to switch to my second tank.

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's the plan :D

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam and I have made a little more progress and used a lot more epoxy :help:

We got the sole completely glued, filleted and taped. And we've got the motorwell frames and sides ready to install...

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And we've been working on the console, got it all taped and sanded...

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And we've worked out the major component layouts after downloading PDFs from Teleflex 8)

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Then we gave it all another coat of epoxy. Now it's time for fairing compound. :D

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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:27 pm
by Dougster
Well it's just inspiring. That console looks just right, and the layout so well thought out. I guess that's what pondering can do :) That boat is gonna catch fish. I can feel it.

Knows some boats are lucky that way Dougster

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:36 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks great, Larry. Can't wait to see it in April! Your work is always inspiring.,

Huck

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:45 am
by TomW
Larry it all really looks good. Can't wait to see the finished product. Hope you stay warn down there so you can keep working. Supposed to be cold and a chance of snow again :cry: up here. At this rate I'll never get the D*** Mirror done, lost one week already with power on and off and D*** 10 degrees and snow. Oh well that's mother nature.

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Tom

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:02 am
by chicagoross
It's solid enough to last forever. Too pretty, though, you're never gonna get away from the ramp with all the people asking you questions about it!

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:45 am
by ks8
Looking great Larry. :)

What sort of wood is your clamping board?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:41 am
by davidtx
I'm really digging your new and improved console. Those big radius's are a nice touch.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:44 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all for the comments :D

KS, the clamping board is Southern Yellow pine.

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
I guess I should check in and update, while I can still find my thread on this page :lol: There is a lot of good building going on out there 8)

The weather has been bad for building here, nothing but cold, rain, fog, sleet, rain, did I say rain? Drought is over in this part of Georgia. All the rivers and creeks are over flood. The first time the rivers have been out of their banks in a few years :D It's a good thing.

I've been mostly working on the console, still. It's about like building a small boat. And I've been spending money hand over fist. There is more $ in the console than in the hull :help: What the heck, it's only money :lol: UPS and DHL come almost every day.

I've got the fishfinder/chart plotter flush mounted, got the new VHF flush mounted, compass you've seen, all the guages came in yesterday and I'll get them cut out, the ignition switch, DC switch panel all fitted, main circuit breaker and ground buss and wiring started. Hinges and latch on dash box....can't remember what else. Everything I can do inside where it's warm and dry. All cut outs have been coated with 3 coats of epoxy, all mounting screw holes drilled oversize, filled and re-drilled.

These new VHFs are really cool 8) It interfaces with the GPS and acts as a repeater, displaying position, course, speed, and other info on the radio face. If I send a Mayday, it also sends the GPS data with the transmission. If I recieve a Mayday it displays the boats position by LL on the radio, and puts an icon on the chart plotter. You can also querry another boat for it's position and it will display it on the radio and GPS plotter. What will they think of next :doh:

Waiting on the control quadrant and steering to finish it all up. And some wire and terminal fittings.

The radar will have to wait until after the motor, but it's coming 8)

That's all for now. Building on.... 8)

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:04 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Sounds like great progress, Larry. Wish I had the money when building to do all the electronics at once. It would have looked so much more custom, not to mention build in ergonomics.

Progress is progress

Huck

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:57 pm
by timoub007
Glad to hear that the drought is over. I'm sick and tired of the rain too. We've got 4 or 5 more days in a row of it in store too.

Console sounds like it is really coming together. Top notch I'm sure.

T

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry we got 4 inches of h2o last night. We aint complaining but it is not good for boat building. Little warmer here today 77 degrees or so. The paint dried pretty good. I dont think Reds keeping pace with my launch date though. The damn epoxy-graphite paint held me up a bit :oops: . BTW your console looks great. :D ...Richard

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
I can't do them all now Huck, but I can do some of them. The chart plotter/ fish finder is from my GF 16. I'm going to use it for a little while. I had to get a flush mount bracket, transducer and power cable to make it work on this boat, but a new one is in it's future. I'm going to get a larger MFD that will handle the radar, gps charting and fish finder. I like gadgets 8)

Tim, I find it hard to complain about the rain, I've complained about the drought for so long. I'd be dancing if I didn't have a boat to finish :lol:

Richard, today was about the warmest in 2 weeks, high 56.

I've got a question for yall woodworkers that I've been pondering a few days, not to mention I've ruined a few pieces of wood and almost lost a finger I can't afford. So I need some advice. See the compass in this picture...

Image

I want to build a wood pad to level it. The angle is 35 degrees. I want the pad to be circular, about an inch larger in diameter than the compass. Call it a 7" circle outside. It needs to have a hole in the center 4 1/4" diameter for the compass to set. So it is basically a donut, but wedge shaped in it's thickness varying from 1 1/8" at the aft side to 0" forward. If I cut the wedge first, which is a challenge in itself, then I can't cut the circles sides square. If I cut the circles first, then I can't cut the wedge. I've got a 14" bandsaw and a 10" tablesaw, but this is befudling me :doh: Might be the beer, might need to ponder a while longer, but I've got a mental block going on with this circular wedge. :help:

I'm almost to the point of making a mold and pouring the wedge with thickened epoxy, and let gravity make it level, but a bright finished piece of wood would look better than a lump of fiberglass. Any suggestions :?:

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:37 pm
by PastorBob
Larry could cut the centrer out first (jig saw or scroll) then cut the outer doughnut on the band saw but leave a little tab in the middle uncut to keep it together so you still have a square side to work with then flip it on the side to cut the angle you need on the band saw and go back with a small coping saw to finish off the tab that you left to separate the waste from the part.... :doh:

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:49 pm
by deedee
draw your part on wood with compass (your donut) make it with a rectangular piece of wood.
if your bandsaw has the 7" height or so capacity and will cut the angle ... cut the angle with a jig clamped to band saw fence or table. ( sort of like resawing a piece of lumber).
then go back and cut your donut out with the band saw by hand
cut out inner part with jigsaw or cut it out first thing with a hole saw.

rectangular piece of wood so that you have something to hold on to or clamp while cutting.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:04 am
by gk108
I'd cut it round complete with the hole and cut the back side with something like my scarfing jig built with the desired angle.
Image
:doh:

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:26 am
by Cracker Larry
Sounds simple, doesn't it :?:
Larry could cut the centrer out first (jig saw or scroll) then cut the outer doughnut on the band saw but leave a little tab in the middle uncut
Bob, the problem with that is the center hole and outer ring sides will not be plumb to the horizon after the wedge is cut. It will be off by 35 degrees.

draw your part on wood with compass (your donut) make it with a rectangular piece of wood.
Did that 3 times.
if your bandsaw has the 7" height or so capacity and will cut the angle ... cut the angle with a jig clamped to band saw fence or table. ( sort of like resawing a piece of lumber).
It does and it can. The jig for the angle I'm having trouble with. Standing the blank on egde and cutting the 1 1/8 taper over 7" I have not perfected. Probably close enough for filler to take care of though.

But once I cut the wedge, I don't have a 90 degree surface anymore for the bandsaw or jigsaw to be able to follow in a plumb fashion so the sides of the circle are skewed.

It's late and I've thought too much. Will read this all again tomorrow.

Thanks :D

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:34 am
by Cracker Larry
GK. That would be the perfect solution I think. Yep, that might do it. If I was smart enough to figure out that scarfing jig. :doh: What kind of bit is in the router?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:36 am
by gk108
gk108 wrote:I'd cut it round complete with the hole and cut the back side with something like my scarfing jig built with the desired angle.
I meant to say cut the angle on the bottom side of the donut with the scarfing jig.

The bit I used was just a straight 3/4" carbide. That's not what's in the picture, though.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:47 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, I knew what you meant with that. It was clear. I have a router just like that, but no jig and not a lot of experience with it. I think that's the best solution so far though. Thanks.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:57 am
by gk108
I'll get some more details on the jig posted tomorrow. I'm having wireless network router trouble right at the moment. :x

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:01 am
by TomW
Larry I think this is another way to do it. GK's will also work.

Cut 2 wedges the size you need. 1 good 1 scrap. Align them with opposite sides together. Front to back, back to front. The wedges have to be equal or you will bring in an angle factor and not be happy.

Then cut your circles. Use double sided tape or something similar to attach the two boards. Make sure the good side of your board is up and on top. Becareful on the upper edge it will splinter on you going down to 0 taper. Quick easy and nothing to figure out and build.

Hope this helps and is what you needed!

Tom

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:59 am
by Aripeka Angler
Larry I went to bed early and didn't see all the posts on the compass bracket. If you didn't mind I could try to cut one out for you on my cnc router. I am heading into work now and I will check the thread later to see if your interested.....Richard

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:15 am
by steve292
I would cut the "donut" first. Then i'd get a rectangular block of wood , cut one end to the angle required, mount the circle to it & use the wood to hold it while I cut it.
Gk's idea is very good though, having thought about it thats the elegant solution.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:32 am
by o-show
I hate when people tell me what to do and i feel funny trying to give advice to someone who has much greater skills that I but I think it would look way slicker and "custom" if the compass was recessed into the top of the console at the 15 degree angle-kind of like a molded cup holder in a car. The boat looks great by the way.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:37 am
by Lucky_Louis
GK and I made very similiar scarfing jigs. Click the pic for more pics if you want. It would work for what you want to do but if I had a band saw, here's how I'd do it:

Cut your taper out of the square blank first (the 35 degrees or whatever)
After the cut, put the two pieces back together and mark the circles (inside, outide and compass mounting holes
Predrill the compass mounting holes to a smaller size than the mounting screw will be
Re-join the blanks with a few screws in the future mounting holes
Cut out the holes with your jigsaw and/or circle cutter jig and router
Sand, then unscrew and finish with router. Plan your cut right and you should have 2 identical bezels. Flog 1 on EBay :)

Image

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:51 am
by gk108
Louis, I guess that's proof once again that great minds think along the same channels. :D

I put some more info about my jig in my V10 thread:
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?p=126722#126722

Hope it helps.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:45 pm
by TomW
Lucky you and I are on the same wave length with the band saw. Should be an easy lay out for CL.

Tom

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks to all for the advice. Lots of good ideas!

I think Tom and LL have hit the solution, making 2 identical pieces. I don't know why that didn't come to me in my ponderings. This would solve my problem just fine and it is a simple solution I can handle without having to figure out GKs scarfing jig, which would be perfect if I already had one. I knew there was a simple solution, it just wouldn't come to me.

Richard, I really appreciate your generous offer to make it for me, but I'm a stubborn cuss who is going to figure this out if it takes a chord of wood to do it :lol: I wouldn't learn a thing if you did it for me, so I'll stick it out. You'd think if I could build a boat, I could build a dang compass pad. :doh:

Steve, O-show, Bob, Deede, Tom, GK, LL, Richard, I really appreciate all of your input. You guys are a great support group. :D

I'll let you know how it works out. 8)

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, with Sam overseeing the operation, and following the above advice, we were finally able to accomplish this simple task without further problems :lol: It came out perfect this time.

Image



And we made the cut outs for all the engine gauges today, also.

Image

Notice in the background, the chopped off top to the console now stores sandpaper 8

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:01 pm
by TomW
Well done Larry looks good, knew you just needed a little guidance. :wink: Glad you left a little edge on the top side that adds a little class. If I lived closer I'd lend you my 1/8" rounding over bit for my router to really make it look great.

Everyone needs a sandpaper storage unit. :lol:

Sam seems pleased by the progress. :D

Tom

PS: It is finally going to warm up next week so I may actually get some epoxying done and the new panels cut out and fit on the Mirror. Keep your fingers crossed. I'm tired of this cold stuff we set a record this morning in Asheville 11, even colder here.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks! I've got a couple of round over bits. Good idea!

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Deleted. Double post. I'm having computer trouble today.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Colder here than it needs to be too :? High today was about 40, and really windy. Tonight is supposed to be low 20's and a chance of snow. I've about had enough. May head to Belize for a couple of weeks, buy Huck some beer :lol:

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:49 pm
by Dougster
Well that just looks real nice. Lucky for you not to live next door cuz I'd be comin' over all the time lookin' for advice/help :) Still, I do have a cowboy for a neighbor, and, from the look of him, he can at least pick up his end and mine of anything. Dern guy is always off ropin' though, so what good is that. Anyway, my point is, I sure admire that console.

I'm long times from console building. Gotta flip Nina over and fair her bottom. She doesn't feel right about it, but I'm talking to her. For now, I just finished the starboard rub rail and left a little heat on her for the night to cure. That way, in the a.m. I can take off the clamps and dry fit, maybe glue the first layer of the port rail. Then build some kinda cradle and flip her, bottoms up. Like I say, she don't wanna; feels shy I'm thinkin', having her bottom up, for the world to see and all. I'm tellin' her, since I'm a boat builder and all, it's kinda like I'm a doctor. She's givin' me that look. You know that look they give.

Says your girl's gonna love her new console Dougster

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:04 pm
by o-show
looks real good Larry, as you can probably tell most of us are following your build closely. Its a pleasure to watch it come together with such precision and cleanliness.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:13 pm
by gk108
Nice!

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:00 am
by Q
Verrrry nice! And, I might just add....set up for my favorite posture;

Right hand on the throttle, sturdy left hand on the wheel...

...as you're surfing that inlet... :D

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:12 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone. Yall are the best part of boatbuilding :D Appreciate your help.

Q, I can't wait to surf the inlets. Won't be long now.

Dougster, I've got a few acres for sale right next door. Come on over, we'll have a hoot :!: You got to talk to those boats, just like a woman. She'll come around :wink:

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:21 am
by TomW
Belize sounds nice, but got the forecast last night for next week and it is actually going to warm up with the medium hardener I got and the heaters and heat lamps I will be able to go. Whew never thought I would be able to say that. :D

Tom

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:47 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks beautiful, Larry. Great progress considering the weather. I know I am very lucky to have had a place to build inside, even heated as cooled as needed.

Belize sounds good to me. My wife has been begging for a trip somewhere warm. That has been my favorite in CA. She is asking for another try at southern Costa Rica. We'll see. For now I have to save my time off for a short trip at the beginning of April, then a week for the builder's meet. Can't wait.

Huck

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:25 pm
by Q
Can this now be stooopid question time? :roll:
Again....

What are the square cutouts to the starbrd and port of the compass?? Are they for instruments? Do these instruments have an lcd screen? Picture yourself, Larry at the helm, what....18 - 24 inches back from the console where the wheel will be. Will you be able to see those nav units from there?

As I said.....stoopid question time. I hit & miss on this forum. Sometimes it's days that have elapsed 'fore I make it back, and with this thread in particular, pages, nay, multiple pages can be had! :?
Image

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:13 pm
by chicagoross
Very impressive! The fishfinder and gps cutouts are where you would normally surface mount the items if you weren't building the custom console, so should be plenty visable. The beer holders are very handy for left or right handed (two fisted) partaking. I assume the slot under the VHF is the weapons locker?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:27 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, you sure didnt need my CNC to build that compass ring :)

And you were right about Davids graphics, they are very nice :!: Need to talk him into coming in April.

BTW, the console looks great.....Richard

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:42 pm
by Cracker Larry
Q, I've already tested them to make sure they are visable. Probably got 100 miles on the console already :lol:

Thanks CR. Yes, weapons locker.

Richard, I told you I'd get it worked out :D Only took 3 days.

Huck, my wife has been talking about Costa Rica also. Anywhere I can get warm and wet would be OK with me right now.

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:42 am
by Betowess
CL, Dougster sure has a way of coaxing the gals - er boats. must be that Texan music. I hear they let it stew longer. He cracked me up on that post... Anyway,I love your console!

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:52 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks. I'd love to have Dougster for a neighbor!

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:46 am
by davidtx
Cracker Larry wrote:Thanks. I'd love to have Dougster for a neighbor!
It's nice!

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol:

We finally had a half way decent day today. The sun came out and it warmed up to almost 60 for a short while.

Sam and I took advantage of the heat wave, made some rum punches and stirred glue while the sun shone.

First we drilled a 1 3/4 hole for the transom sump drain,

Image

Then we taped up the outside and filled the hole with thickened epoxy, and taped over the inside. When it cures, I'll re-drill it to 1 1/4" for a drain plug. I've got brass tubes, but I really don't think they are necessary if you leave a solid epoxy anular ring :doh:

The was a short time that the sun hit inside the stern and we were finally able to get the motorwell frame and sides glued into place. We lost the sun there, so were not able to tape it at the same time, but at least it's all glued and mostly filleted. Was hoping to avoid sanding but not enough daylight or warmth left today.

Image

When the sun moved a little more we were able to seal up the console chase tubes. Where the void was too large for epoxy, I mixed a few tablespoons of foam and that worked like a champ. Will cut this off flush, epoxy and glass over it, sealed forever 8)

Image

Not much progress, but some :lol: 45 degree again at sunset :cry:

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:26 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Lookin' good Larry. Is that snow on the ground behind the boat? 8O I have to agree, it feels to get out and work on the boat, no matter what the temp, as long as it's sunny 8) . Took advantage of the same, myself.

Huck

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:14 am
by TomW
Well done! That's makin' hay while the sun shines. :D Nice rig on the motor well.

Tom

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam and I really worked hard today. Just not on the boat :?
We did pull off the tape to get a look at that drain plug filler though and it came out real nice. Almost drilled a hole thru it, but the boat said not today.

Image

Monday's progress...removed 2 pieces of masking tape.

progress

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:28 pm
by plumbertuck
lookin great 8)
what do you use to cut your glass larry ?I have noticed in several pics how clean and neat the ends look,

mine tend to look like a pissed off rodent gnawed through them 8O (and I actually have an ok pair of scissors)

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sometimes I get the gnawed rat look too :lol: The biax is hard to cut clean.

I've got 2 things that work pretty good, the first is a HUGE 8O pair of Navy issue sailmaker scissors that came off some sailboat somewhere. I've had them 30 years at least and they'll cut about anything off clean, including an arm. They scare me some. No problem to whack thru 1" nylon line or 10 layers of sailcloth :!:

And a pair of cut-anything shears, made for sheet metal, laminate flooring, plastics and such. A cross between tin snips and souped up spring-loaded scissors. I think it's made by Rigid and it does a great job. 3rd boat and it still cuts clean. I'll get a model and pic for you.

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tuck, the shears are made by Wiss, model 300, and they do a great job.
The scissors are Clauss. You can see them here..

Image

Sam and I had nice weather today and we finally were able to get the motorwell all taped up. This meant sanding, cleaning, coating, filleting and taping :help: You can see Sam is enjoying the day :)

Image

It took all afternoon but we got it :D

Image

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:33 pm
by colonialc19
Larry, I use the Clauss every day at work best scissors out there :)

Nice clean work there, but at this point I'd expect nothing else from you Cracker :wink:

Daniel

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:55 am
by TomW
Nice work Larry, what more can I say. Boy Sam sure looks proud of himself in that shot.

Tom

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:29 am
by TomW
Larry sent you an e-mail. My Crouch's speed calulator also shows the same thing a 2-4 Mph difference between the two for the OD at 1700 lbs. It's the extra weight of the 75 dragging things down, 130 lbs is like an extra person. I'll be honest with your flat bottom, shallow draft, and angled chines you should see much higher speeds than those shown in my e-mail. That boat was a shallow v hull similar to the OB17. And we know L. Louis hits the 40's with his optimax 75 which wieghs 375 about the same as the Merc 75. You also save $1200 at Ed's with the 60. :wink:

Hope all is well with both families.

Tom

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got it Tom, thanks :D Interesting info....

Thanks for asking about the family. My Dad is still in ICU after another round of cancer surgery, so it's been a rough week. Not good in that respect.

We took advantage of a nice afternoon away from the hospital, and cut out all of the cleats for the motorwell and quarter seat lockers and got them all dry fitted...

You can see here what I'm doing with the motorwell. I don't want a big open box :)

Image

Then we got them all glued into place. We had 70 degree weather so the glue set quickly...

Image

You can also see we've got the brass sleeve installed for the sump drain plug.

Image

And last but not least. we used all the left over glue and resin to get the console chase tubes sealed up. First we cut flush those foam softballs we had previously, poured leftover glue around them and brushed them out with resin. That should seal it up forever 8) ...

Image

All in all a good afternoon's work. Almost out of epoxy again :help: I'll have to order more, one more time :lol:

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:06 am
by TomW
You're moving right along. You'll be ready to lay that 9 oz. down before to long, well once you get some more epoxy. That boats going to be so well sealed it will never rot. :lol:

Sorry to hear your Dad had another bout, hope all works out okay.

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:49 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
WOW I am still amazed at the quality of work that you do, and how effortless it seems from three states away. Keep after it.
We will have you and your dad on our thought and prayer list. I hope that he has had a good day today and a better one tomorrow.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:54 pm
by Dougster
Sorry about your Dad Larry. I bet he's something; wish I knew him. I'm glad you got old Sam and the boat build to help keep your mind right and your head up.

Hopin' for better times on up the road Dougster

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:20 pm
by colonialc19
Larry, sorry to hear about your father, that cancer is rough, many in my family have delt with it, wishing you and your dad the best. Everybody deals with it different, but I kinda know what youre going through.

Daniel

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:33 pm
by timoub007
Larry, I'm sorry to hear of your dad's illness. I know what your going through as I lost my dad a few days before Christmas. Spend as much time with him as you can. The boat will float in due time.

Take care,
Tim

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and prayers. My Dad and I have always been close. He taught me most of the things I know worth knowing. I'll have to post more on this later. It's not been a good day.

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:11 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, your boats looking great. I know that is not the focus of your thoughts right now. Good luck with your Dad....Richard Grimes

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:19 pm
by Vman777
Larry - sorry to hear about your Dad, I will keep him in my prayers.

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:04 am
by davidtx
Larry - I'm really sorry to hear about your dad. I'll keep you guys in my thoughts and prayers.

-david

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:41 am
by mecreature
Your work is inspiring Larry. Best to your Dad and your family..

And again tell Sam he is very handsome and quite photogenic.

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:45 am
by ejohns
Larry

You and your Dad are in my prayers.

Ernie

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:23 pm
by ks8
Well, by now, it is certainly clear that your Dad and you and your family are not alone in this. Do send him our greetings as the prayers are gettin' prayed. I don't know how it all works, but I trust that the most important voice is praying way before we were, and we're just joining in with Him.

These are some mighty precious memories you're putting into the boat as you build. Maybe that's what shows in the quality?

It is said how those brass tubes are not necessary, but they sure do look purty. One of those details... looking very nice. :)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
My words can't express how I appreciate all of yall :? I'll just say thanks to each of you :D The prayers seem to be working. We lost him twice and didn't think he had a chance, but he has made a comeback and been stable for the last 24 hours. 9 days in ICU now. 88 and still fighting. He is the only person I know that's more stubborn than I am. He doesn't know the word quit.

One of my many memories as a young kid, me playing baseball, getting hit square in the nose with a line drive, which sqaushed my nose all over my face. I ran out crying to the bleachers where he met me. He said "boy, wipe off those *&% @&*# tears, wipe off that blood and get your a$$ back in there and finish that &@#%^ ball game :!: You who may meet me will notice I still have a crooked nose. When you may know me good, you'll learn that I'll still finish the game :wink:

KS, I can't do anything without picturing him inspecting my work. If there is a flaw he will find it. He was helping me a little over the holidays and driving me crazy. "You missed a drip over here, you should have sanded that better, are you sure glue will hold this splice together, is that bait tank too small...And my glue drippings on the floor, no excuse for that. Sloppy work. Details, that's one of his sayings, The Devil is in the Details. On a boat or an airplane, it's the details that will kill you or get you home. And it's the details that separate an average job from good one or a great one. Drain tubes are just supposed to be brass. It ain't worth arguing about. :lol:
And again tell Sam he is very handsome and quite photogenic
He knows it. He get's told that every day :lol: I don't know why, but if he sees you point a camera, he's got to get in front of it. He loves his picture being taken. What could a dog know about a camera :?: I just don't get it :doh: And believe it or not, his middle name is actually Handsome 8) His AKC registered name is Great Jake's Handsome Samson :lol:

Sam's going to the hospital tomorrow. A little Internet surfing, a little printing, he's going to be a registered therapy dog before dawn, and he's going to ICU :wink: My Dad loves dogs, especially Sam. He also enjoys breaking a few rules. Just like me :lol:

Sorry I can't reply to everyone right now, I've got to get back and check on my Mom, but thanks to each and every one of you :)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:28 pm
by msujmccorm
My prayers are with y'all also. I lost Dad 2 years ago to cancer but it sounds like those of us from a certain generation had the same Dads. I remember playing catcher and the play at home knocked me out, I woke up to Dad standing over me at home plate saying "I'm glad you held on to the ball, he's out!"
Great looking build Larry.

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:58 pm
by TomW
What a fighter Larry sounds just like my father-in-law, and you know how I miss him. God bless and hope he is still fighting at 90.

Tom

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:12 pm
by gk108
Hang in there Larry...and Larry's dad. Sam will probably love his new job. Maybe he won't get stuck to the floor on this one.

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:20 am
by PastorBob
Great news Larry,,, Prayers continue.

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:08 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Larry,

I've tried to think of some supportive words that haven't been spoken, but this great group always comes through with everything that's needed. I am glad to hear you and your father have had such a great relationship, and that he has a strong will to live.

I wish him the best of luck, and your family all the strength they will need.

Huck

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:30 pm
by stickystuff
I also lost my father two years ago this coming July. He loved to fish but I never really took the time to fish with him. Now its to late. Really makes me feel bad. Enjoy it while you can. Once they are gone its to late. Best wishes to the family and my prayers are with you.

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:02 pm
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:... On a boat or an airplane, it's the details that will kill you or get you home. And it's the details that separate an average job from good one or a great one. Drain tubes are just supposed to be brass. It ain't worth arguing about. :lol:
So very true! And this weekend I'll have to post a picture to show my sure compliance with this law, a law that should not even have to be spoken aloud... :lol:

8)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's the bad times that let's you know who your friends really are, and I am grateful to all the ones here :D

I think the stubborn old man has decided that he's going to fish and fly a few more times yet. He pulled out his own ventillator tubes this morning and told the nurse he was well and ready to go home. He hasn't been able to talk in a week, so he had a whole list of people he wanted to cuss and a few he wanted to praise. He told them they were not putting any more tubes in him. He was OK now. And he mostly is. The doctor says it's a miracle, but it's just pure stubborn. :D He told me to go home and do something useful.

I think I'm going to spend the night working on my boat, with my Dad watching over my shoulder :lol:

Unfortunately I have more bad news to go with the good. A neighbor and good friend was critically injured in the explosion at the Savannah Sugar Refinary last night. He's been flown to the Augusta burn center. Sure has been a lot of misery lately :cry: I

KS, I don't think I'll ever match you on details, you are the master of detail on that little boat :P

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Oh, I forgot to tell you that Sam did a great impersonation of a therapy dog this morning. He is perfectly behaved and loves people so it suits him well. Our "credentials" :wink: got us right in past the security desk with a pass around his neck, and my Dad loved it. :lol: Afterwards we made visists to some other patients who enjoyed him too. That was fun 8)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:12 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
You and Sam may have to take your act on the road. I love the idea and know from seeing therapy dogs in action that they can really make a difference. The best ones that I have seen are dogs that just love to be around people and Sam just fits the bill. Glad to hear that Dad is feisty and still has a list of folks to cuss that is a great sign.

Build ON :!:

Robbie

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:19 pm
by plumbertuck
the plant explosion is all over the news up here Larry, between your Dad and that plant you have been on my mind .....hang in there :!:
Tuck

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:20 am
by TomW
Larry that is great news, I am so glad for you and your family. Sorry for your friend I wish him well and hope he recovers fully and will add him to the prayer list to.

Best to you and yours and give that grouchy old man all the hugs he deserves.

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, it's been a long fight but my Dad finally lost the struggle this afternoon and moved on to better fishing ground. I was with him and we agreed it had been a hell of a ride.

He donated his body to the Augusta Burn Center, where they will use his skin for grafts on the surviving plant explosion victims. He didn't believe in wasting anything useful.

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. It was just his time.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:14 pm
by timoub007
Larry, I am so very sorry to hear that. You have my thoughts and prayers. As I mentioned earlier, I lost my dad just a few days before Christmas and miss him more every day.

That is a wonderful thing though that your dad donated his remains to help others. Always thinking and helping.

I'm glad you were there with him. And now we are here with you. If you need something, don't hesitate to ask and I'll do my best to help.

Tim

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:22 pm
by Vman777
Larry, sorry to hear that your Dad passed away :cry: Good to hear that you were with him in his last moments.

I hope that I will be able to do that with my Dad.

Very nice that your Dad donated his body to help others :D

Let me know if there is anything I can do.

David

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:05 am
by robbiro
Larry,
My thoughts and prayers will continue to be with you. I lost my dad many a moon ago (1973 ) and I miss him still today. The memories get better and I still remember fishing and hunting with him. He never was one to want a boat, but, he did cast a mean fly. If we can be of any help, please let us know

In all of our DADS MEMORIES :!:

Robbie

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:16 am
by Fred in Wisc
Prayin' for your family.

Fred in Wisc

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:55 am
by WobblyLegs
Larry,

Sorry to hear the news. It sounds like you two had a good life together. I often wonder if my dad is watching when I build? It's when I remember him most.

Regards to you and your family,

Tim.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:04 am
by Knottybuoyz
Larry

We're so very sorry for your loss. Our thoughts and prayers are for your family at this time.

Condolences.

Rick & Lori

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:24 am
by TomW
Larry what a special man your father was and to continue to give even at the end just proves it. You will continue to have memories of him all your life.

God bless you and your family in this period of your fathers passing.

Tom

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:07 am
by plumbertuck
thinking of you.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:38 am
by Oceola
Larry,

So sorry for your loss. I know just how you feel...my fondest memories of my dad are all the woodworking projects and flounder fishing trips we did together.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Frank

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:45 am
by msujmccorm
Sorry to hear of your loss. Thoughts and prayers are with you.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:08 am
by gk108
Sorry for your loss, Larry. Hang on to those memories.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:48 am
by steve292
That is sad news larry, I am sorry for your loss
Steve

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:07 am
by ks8
Sorry to hear the news Larry.

The family here is praying that you and your family and your Dad will find rest in the surest comfort there is.

The best memories are yet to be known.

Sincerely,
ks and family

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:32 pm
by colonialc19
Larry, sorry to hear about your loss, will lift you and your family up in prayer.

Daniel

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:01 pm
by stickystuff
Larry, He is with peace now. My sincerest condolences to you and your family.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:50 pm
by Q
Larry, I'm so very sorry. I've been actually watching this thread alot lately, but felt I couldn't contribute. It's not that I couldn't relate in some way, it's just that...well, I never had a Dad. The job of being my stepfather changed every couple o' years (Mom's been married 7,8 times) for that job to become permanent....

I can't say that each of you that had Dad's were lucky, 'cause frankly....how can you "miss" something you've never known?? But I sense you were. I know you were. I've been praying for your Dad's speedy recovery since day one. I'm so very sorry. I lost my fishing buddy, business partner, confidant (during those long sultry Summer days trolling during the week...) and best friend last January 8th, 2007. In the end, at the home....most times he didn't know me.

Yes, I know now. Each of you with father's...DAD's...are very lucky indeed. I hope you all know that.....

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:47 pm
by frazoo
Larry, we are so sorry for your loss. You and your family are in our prayers.

frazoo

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:53 pm
by cottontop
Larry, I've been following your posts for some time now. I and my family were so sorry to hear about your "Dad's" passing. we've had your family in or prayers since your 1st post on this situation. I lost my dad in 85. Didn't realize how much I would miss him. Only time will ease your pain. Our prayers will continue to be with you. Cottontop

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:06 pm
by TimF
Larry,

My sincerest condolences and prayers. I lost my mother in '83 when I was 20 and my father in '96. You will never forget the memories of them.

TimF

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:04 pm
by Dougster
Ah, Larry, what's left to say? 'Cept we love you.

Dougster

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:48 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
So sorry, Larry. Sounds like he was a Great Man all the way to the end.

Huck

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:52 pm
by Doug N
Larry
You and your family are in our thoughts and prayers. My mother passed away this past October and I know that friends sure help you get through. Just checking in here to see the friendly banter going on, helped me.
Doug and family

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:45 am
by RR
Dear Larry,

My deepest sympathy in your loss.

Sincerely,

Randy

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:04 am
by Cracker Larry
I don't even know what to say. :oops: You are all a great group of people and I'm proud to call each of you a friend. Thanks for your support :!: I'm going to print this and take it to my Mom. She didn't know people were praying for him all over the world :D

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:35 am
by jeremy
Larry,
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. You and your family are in my thoughts.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:00 am
by donk
Larry,

Sorry about your dad.

I'm a new member but been looking over your shoulder for quite some time. You are an inspiration to all of us, probably a big part of why I'm here. I've been a hobbyist wood worker most of my life but never thought about building a boat. Until I just happened upon a site and one thing led to another. Bateau2 is probably one of the greatest sites on the web, clean, informative, friendly and a bunch of people that care.

Very few of you folks are friends in the true sense but maybe through the magic of electronics you're closer than you think. I feel honored having the privilege to be one of you.

If you take after your dad he must have been one heck of a man.

Don

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:20 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, my families thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. My parents are both gone and I have tried to write something to you for a couple of days. I couldn't figure out what to say. I miss both both my parents but I learned about life and hard work from my Dad. Sounds like you did as well.

Condolences, Richard

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:42 pm
by bushmaster
Larry,

My condolence to you and your family. I know what is it to lose a dad, i did years ago and I still can't forget.

Take heart, great friend and thanks for the encouragement and advice.


Bushmaster

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:39 pm
by circlehook
Larry, prayers for you and your family. I lost my dad a few years ago so I know what it is like to lose your dad. remember all your good times and memories with him and think of him often when you are doing the things you enjoyed doing with him and he will always be with you.
Paul

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:16 am
by Cracker Larry
Thank you all. Your words mean a lot to me and have helped me to get through this. We put my father to rest yesterday.

Now it's time to get back to boat building 8)

David (VMan) I hate to tell you this, after all of your hard work on my graphics, but I've decided to rename this boat after my Dad. He had all the qualities a good boat needs. Gentle and kind, but strong and tough. Dependable, reliable, responsible, practical, and stubborn.

His name was Allie Greene Teuton. My new OD is now the "Alley Green". The red has to go. He would never agree to a red boat.

"Blackjack" will have to wait for the next build.

Off to the shop... :D

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:27 am
by mecreature
LOL... great name.

Back on the horse...

These are the characters I am trying to creatively instill in my 5 yr old boy. He is stubborn will not let me help him with about any task, and questions authority already... (wonder where he gets it).

I sure hope when time comes he will describe me at least a little like you describe your father..

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:37 am
by TomW
Larry what a tribute and a way for you and him to always be together. Am glad to hear your getting back to work on the boat and life is geting back to normal in this small way. Best to your mom and hope she is doing okay.

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:01 am
by Deltaskipper
Larry,
My condolences to you and your family. It must be gratifying to see the heartfelt responses shown in this forum. It goes to show we are not alone.

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:27 pm
by norsechild76
Larry,

Been watching the thread, haven't had much to add, just getting ideas for laying down a hull (OD16) for my own dad when I get home before I start on mine. I've never lost close family but I've lost a couple friends over here in the desert in the recent years. Pretty much everything that could have been said already was. My heart goes out to your and yours.

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:23 pm
by MadRus
Larry,

Sorry to hear of your loss. I named my boat after my dad as he passed just before I started building- the GV13- a few years ago. I think it's a great idea.

-Dave

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:29 pm
by Vman777
Larry you wrote
David (VMan) I hate to tell you this, after all of your hard work on my graphics, but I've decided to rename this boat after my Dad. He had all the qualities a good boat needs. Gentle and kind, but strong and tough. Dependable, reliable, responsible, practical, and stubborn.
No problem, I understand

David

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:19 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks David 8) Back to the drawing board :lol:

Sam and I had a good day yesterday. We got the forward frame glassed in place. This will support the deck and separate the fuel compartment from the anchor locker.

We also made the tops for both quarter seats and the motor well. This was more involved than necessary because we're out of 1/2" plywood. I had an extra sheet of 1/4, so I cut 2 parts for every section and laminated them together. In retrospect, this would be easier done to first laminate the sheets together, then cut out the parts, rather than glueing up the individual pieces. Live and learn.

Lastly we made 2 longitudinal bulkheads that will separate the fuel from the storage compartments on each side of the tank. These we also had to laminate from 2 layers of 1/4" :roll:

Pictures to follow. Today we will get the last (LAST!) frame glassed in and the above bulkheads installed. And then make the cut outs for the hatches. Someone asked about Tempress hatches. We've got 10 of them going in this boat.

Off to the shop :D ...

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
As usual, we didn't get as much done as we hoped for :doh: The cut outs for the rear hatches still haven't been made.

Image

But we did get those last deck frames installed.....

Image

And we got the bulk heads for the storage lockers glassed in place. This is rough on my back, leaning over the bow all afternoon.. :|

Image

I glassed the entire bottom of the fuel tank area and storage lockers, and glassed the bottom and all 3 sides of the anchor locker. It will get a lot of abuse.

Next we'll put in some cleats and install the gas tank :D

Oh yeah, did someone mention blood stains :?:

Image

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:13 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, very nice. As usual your work is very neat and clean. Sam looks like he is glad you are back at work....Richard

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:14 am
by jgroves
WOW! Looks like some great work you have done! I like how clean you have kept the epoxy work. I like your hatches on the back also! Your console looks to be a perfect size.
Jeremy :D

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:31 am
by TomW
Larry very nice as usual everything looks very well planned out like youv'e had a boat or two before. :wink: Hope this finds your Mom and family well after there loss.

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:39 pm
by cedarock
Larry,

Sorry for your loss! I enjoy following the job that you and Sam are doing on the build. It is coming together beautifully and makes me want to build another....soon!

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:56 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
I like the DNA marker that you have added to the hull. Is that an option on that hull, or does it come standard :?: :doh:
The name change is most appropriate. I like red boats, but it just does not match the new name. Keep Capt. sam in line and make sure that he keeps all of the dritters away while you are building.

Build On'

Robbie

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you all. :D

We managed a few hours this afternoon and got all the cleats cut for the bow deck and fuel tank framing.

Image

The smaller cleats on the tank will be glued along the sides.

Image

USCG regulations require that the tank not be able to move more than 1/4" in any direction, including up, so we're snugging it in tight and will pour some foam around it to insure it stays put.

I'm going to have to give it a rest for a few days and go make some money. Haven't worked in a month :|

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
I like the DNA marker that you have added to the hull. Is that an option on that hull, or does it come standard
Standard equipment :lol:

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:58 pm
by ericsil
Cracker,
That looks suspiciously like a Moeller Poly tank you are installing. If so, be sure to allow room for that 3% expansion, in other words, more than half an inch. I put an inspection port over my tanks and was amazed to see how much my 30"-long tank increased in length after it was filled with gas. There is also an issue with foam and their warranty.

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, it is a Moeller and I've allowed for expansion. I've seen nothing in the warranty about foam. How could foam hurt poly? No corrosion to worry about. Could you point me to a reference?

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:43 pm
by gk108
I like it. It looks like the gas tank will be held in place by convenient storage lockers.

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:46 pm
by ericsil
The issue about the foam is not due to any reaction but that it might constrain the tank so that it cannot have its 3% expansion zone. I know of this primarily because it came with my tanks as part of the mounting instructions. There was a statement to the effect that a foamed-in tank would void the warranty. There was also some discussion in one of the ancient threads, but I have long since forgotten which one.

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Nothing in the warranty that came with mine says that, but in any case I'm just going to foam the corners to keep it from shifting. If it expands, it will bulge in the centers, so I'm leaving about an inch all around for that. Thanks :D

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:28 pm
by Dougster
Great looking work as usual. All so neat and square; where are all the drips and dings? You're giving amateurs a good name. I'm a little curious what wood you and other folks use for cleats. Just off the shelf yellow pine or whatever and 'poxy the whey out it I suppose? Good on you goin' back to make a buck. Gotta keep old Sam in biscuits.

Now that I mention it, he like his biscuits too Dougster

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:54 am
by ericsil
Cracker, You came to the same conclusion I did, small foam blocks in the corners to keep the tank from shifting. After a few months with gas in the tank this seems to have worked. Two of the end blocks slid a 1/2" or so into the space allowed but the tank is still secure. By the way, really nice work and great documentation. Many a time I was helped by looking at the pictures of those who built before me.

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:24 am
by davidtx
This is a timely discussion about foaming the tank. My plastic tank also had the warning about 3% expansion and I was trying to figure out how to use foam and satisfy this constraint. I like the foamed corner idea. I assume you'll just dam off an "L" around each corner and pour foam mix in it.

How will you constrain the tank vertically?

Separate topic:

Where did you find the plastic tubing for your bow lights?
I see the blocks for anchoring the ends of the chase tubes, but it looks like you've done something at intermediate points along the tubes and I can't see the details.

-david

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:50 am
by mecreature
Nice fit... I was wondering how tight it would be.. I know you require a bit tank... that should for sure off-set some weight.

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:13 pm
by Daddy

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:18 pm
by Lucky_Louis
from USCG Boatbuilders Handbook

[quote]Sec. 183.620—Natural ventilation system
(a) Except for compartments open to the atmosphere, a natural ventilation system that meets
the requirements of Sec. 183.630 must be provided for each compartment in a boat that:
(1) Contains a permanently installed gasoline engine;
(2) Has openings between it and a compartment that requires ventilation, where the
aggregate area of those openings exceeds 2 percent of the area between the
compartments, except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section;
(3) Contains a permanently installed fuel tank and an electrical component that is not
ignition protected in accordance with Sec. 183.410(a);
(4) Contains a fuel tank that vents into that compartment; or
(5) Contains a non-metallic fuel tank:
(i) With an aggregate permeability rate exceeding 1.2 grams of fuel loss in
24 hours per cubic foot of net compartment volume, or
(ii) If the net compartment volume is less than one cubic foot, having a
permeability rate exceeding 1.2 grams of fuel loss in 24 hours.
Note: Reference fuel “Câ€

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone, I think you saved me from making another mistake 8) Yall got me curious so I had to re-verify.

My first mistake, is that my tank is not a Moeller, it is an Inca :oops: Don't know what I was thinking, but it surely wasn't clearly :doh: I looked at a lot of tanks.

Image

That's why my installation instructions were different than the above :idea:

These seem to be a bit heavier than the Moellers, and are rated for both gas and diesel.

I called the factory and asked about mounting, foaming and expansion. They told me that the center baffle could be used for mounting, with a spacer and a threaded rod with a nut on top, like a spare tire. Simple :roll: That will take care of securing it from the top also, all with one bolt. you can see the baffle here. It is higher and much sturdier than the rest of the tank..

Image

They said the corners would not expand, and to allow for 2% in the side centers. That's .6" on this tank. Foam would be fine to secure the corners, but DO NOT foam in the entire tank. That's what I figured.


That was a good link, Lucky, and yes I do intend to vent the compartment. Regs or not, I think that's just good sense. I've read all those regulations, and they are sometimes confusing and contradictory, but gas should always be vented :doh: I'm scared of gas.

I will use tinted epoxy for all the inside hatches, before installing the decks. Good reminder 8)

Daddy, thanks for those Moeller links, that's how I figured out I didn't have a Moeller :?
Separate topic:

Where did you find the plastic tubing for your bow lights?
I see the blocks for anchoring the ends of the chase tubes, but it looks like you've done something at intermediate points along the tubes and I can't see the details.
David, the tubing is just flexible electrical conduit, available at Home Depot, Lowes, any electrical supply house. You can buy it in 10' sections or 50' rolls. The fittings are made for it, bought at the same places, same aisle. The intermediate fittings are just couplings to join the tube sections. They cost about $.69 each. This will help with the detail....

Image

Eric, yep, they tell me it's OK to foam the corners to keep it from shifting. Don't foam the sides :lol:

Thanks for all of your replies. Maybe someone besides me learned something :D

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:03 pm
by TomW
I figure you would ponder on it enough to figure out the correct way no need to throw any confusion from the frozen peanut gallery in. :D Dandg snow flurries and hi winds no work on little boat again, I may not finish it this month. Don't work to hard when you go back at it. :P

Tom

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:06 pm
by chicagoross
Lots of people learn from your build! Your attention to detail and excellent documentation are basically a "how to" for the rest of us. It does get a bit depressing at times looking at my actuals compared to your illustrated "standard"... :( Although I too believe in building the boat as strong as possible, Larry, some of your below-decks-never-to-see-the-light-of-day-again work is just entirely too pretty for its location. :) Couldn't you leave a few drips or something?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:20 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, that cabling looks so good I am going to lock my hatches if Red makes it to Crystal River :) Richard

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:46 pm
by stickystuff
On the flex conduit or in the trades we called it smurf tube. I had a hard time even useing a snake to get wire through it on the curves. Best bet is to get some heavy nylon twine, tie a small piece of a rag on it and suck it through the pipe with a vaccuum cleaner. Now you have a pull string to pull wires through. If you plan on more wires down the road add another pull string and pull it through also and tie it off. this way when you need to add wires you have a pull string already there. makes life much more simple. You can add another string when you pull the extra wire through and then again you have another pull string in place for future.

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:41 pm
by Daddy
CL, apparently the gas tank has to be grounded. Looks like it would be grounded from a fitting on the sending unit. What I cant figure out is where or what to ground it to? There is a diagram on the ABYC site (I think) but it just shows the wire going "to ground". Suggests it should be grounded to the motor but they are talking about an inboard motor. Any idea where to ground the tank?
Daddy

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, we've always called it smurf pipe also, so I guess that's an official name. Always leaving a string does make life easier in the future :wink:

You better get at it Tom. I'm looking forward to sailing a mirror dingy at Crystal River :P

Ross, trust me, I get plenty of drips. I just try to brush them out before they dry. By the time you get this far into your 3rd. stitch n glue boat, you really start to get the hang of the glass work. And you learn it's easier to brush them out than to sand them later:wink:

Daddy, yes the tank has to be grounded. The motor frame is ground no matter if inboard or outboard. So is the negative battery terminal and your negative ground buss in your electrical panel. They are all a common ground. I'll run mine to the ground buss in the console.

Also, the fill pipe fitting needs to be grounded to the tank to prevent a static build up when fueling.

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:42 pm
by Dougster
Great documentation and explanations Larry, and you other guys too. Maybe if I pay attention here I won't blow myself up.

Thinkin' that would be good Dougster 8O

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:47 pm
by Daddy
thanks CL, ground to the buss bar sounds good. I plan to use a non metallic fuel fill so no need to ground that.
Daddy

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:57 am
by Boomer
Larry:

I realize that money is probably no object, :P , but I have a brand new Moeller 27 gal. tank that has become surplus, it is the permanent installation type.

Do you have any use for it?

I can't e-mail for technical reasons beyond the scope of this discussion.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Boomer, I appreciate it, but I'm OK with my 40 gallon Inca :D

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:36 pm
by stickystuff
I have a 20 gal. aluminum tank mounted under my concol. Grounded to the battery terminal. Also use a check valve type fitting to vent the tank. Goes in between the vent hole and vent fitting on the side of my consol. This allows air to escape but no moisture to back up into the tank. Made by Attwood.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:52 pm
by Boomer
I plan to use a non metallic fuel fill so no need to ground that.
Can't that build up static electricity?

I know that all of our gas pumps have warnings not to fill plastic tanks in the beds of pickups with bedliners, because of the build of static electricity from the flowing gas.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:14 pm
by Daddy
Boomer
Dunno, Worst Marine and others sell a combination vent/fill that is non metallic and requires, according to them, no grounding.
Daddy

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've got a fill/vent combo made by Perko that's all plastic except for the fill cap. It says in big bold letters "DO NOT GROUND PLASTIC FUEL FILLER!" per NMMA,USCG. I don't understand the reasoning. The tank is plastic and they want that grounded :doh:

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:11 pm
by chicagoross
I wonder if some of the regs are magic instead of science.... :doh: Got my gas tank in the mail yesterday, off to the archives to look for installation examples.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:49 pm
by stickystuff
What you are grounding from your tank is the sending unit that lets you know how much fuel you have.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
That would make sense, if it were so simple, but my tank has 3 electrical connection points. One for the ground and 2 for the sending unit. The tank ground and the sending unit negative are both on the same metal plate, but 1 is a large screw connection (for the ground) and the other is a spade connection for the sending unit. The wiring diagram shows 3 connections.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:37 pm
by Boomer
Here's the USCG's thoughts.


http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatb ... 83-572.htm

If I'm reading the notes correctly, metal hose clamps in an otherwise plastic system need to be grounded.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:05 pm
by TomW
Yep the plastic tank and metal tanks have the same ground for just the reasons sighted to take care of the metal on the tank. On some of the Moeller tanks the fill and vents are metal. Forget what Larry's Inca looks like now 2 days later, think it was all plastic.

Tom

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:25 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:14 pm
by Daddy
According to Boomers USCG post, and I quote,

If the fuel tank deck fill fitting is nonmetallic, and nonconductive hose is used as a fill pipe, there is no need for grounding the fill fitting. Chrome-plated plastic fill fittings are treated the same as metallic fittings.

I guess the nonmetallic deck fill does not need to be grounded, unless of course, I missed something and at my age that is not unusual
Daddy

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:47 am
by Boomer
Daddy:

I think that you are correct in what you quote. Down at the bottom, in the "notes" it says this:
NOTES:

1. If a metal hose attachment fitting is used, it must be grounded.
Which I take to mean the common hose clamp.

So as I read it the entire page, you can use all non-metallic major components, which don't have to be grounded, but if they are connected with metal hose clamps, those clamps need to be grounded.

So at the end of the day it may be a distinction without a difference.

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:39 am
by Betowess
CL, the build is looking terrific. Nice to see the fuel tank bulkheads and all the discussion on foaming the corners etc. It was timely for me as I just built an okoume box to secure a little 12 gallon tank I'm putting next to a bench seat to move some weight forward in an old Lund I bought.

I wasn't sure about the sole I'm building next around the fuel box - or how much ventilation to put in the box - and your thread (as usual) is sharing a lot of valuable info.

PS, sorry to hear about your dad's passing. My father died in November too, Threads like this keep our spirits up, for sure!

Pss just got back from Monterey CA checking out that amazing aquarium and bay. Spendy, but a lot of fun in the sun - looking at all the boats there and in Sausalito CA in the Bay area.

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:28 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks. Sorry to hear about your Dad, also. I've got a lot of comfort from the good folks here :D

I could use some of that fun in the sun! Getting real tired of cold and rain :cry:

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:22 am
by Daddy
Boomer, I looked at the notes you referred to:

NOTES:
If a metal hose attachment fitting is used, it must be grounded.
Fill cap retaining chains need not be grounded.

I wonder if there is any such item as a non metallic hose attachment fitting? This is getting weird because if the clamp must be grounded, why not the chain? It is the only part that might be exposed or able to "spark" with something? Oh well, the mystery continues :doh:

Cracker Larry, sorry the weather is not cooperating down there in GA. Let me tell you my daily routine to work on my boat: Get out to the boat shed, split some kindling, build a fire, split and bring in an armload of fire wood, stoke the woodstove, go in for breakfast, eat, bring in another load of wood for the shop, go back in the house because I forgot my poxy and hardener that I brought in the night before to keep it from freezing (0 degrees)..... well, you get it. Cold up here in Vermont. With all of that I get in an hour or two of actually building.... waiting for the shop to heat up right now.
Daddy

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:08 am
by chicagoross
Larry, I'm jealous of the fittings on your fuel tank. I worked and worked to lower my tank enough to bend the fill hose - then I re-read your thread for tank installation help and saw those nicely angled fill and vent fittings. That's like having 3 more inches in the compartment! Like that a lot better than my Moeller. Still trying to figure out how to ventilate the tank compartment.

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:16 am
by Cracker Larry
I wonder if there is any such item as a non metallic hose attachment fitting?
There sure is. That's what we use on small aircraft. They are actually stronger than metal and won't damage the hose. I've never used large sizes like for the filler hose, but they make them 8)

http://www.waytekwire.com/plastic-hose-clamp.htm

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:18 am
by Cracker Larry
That hose doesn't bend easy, does it CR :?: :help:

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:30 am
by Boomer
I wonder if there is any such item as a non metallic hose attachment fitting?
Look under the hood of a new car. When they get old and brittle, you can't remove them, you end up breaking them, and that's when you replace them with good old fashioned stainless steel hose clamps. :doh:


I've seen a type of "cable tie" used to clamp hose also.

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:33 am
by Daddy
Thanks CL, I bookmarked that site
Daddy

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:29 pm
by Betowess
Boomer wrote:
I've seen a type of "cable tie" used to clamp hose also.
Yeah, a marine mechanic just gave me some so I could extend my fuel line. They are curved a bit under the base and are specifically made for fuel line hoses and such. Otherwise they are just like a regular black cable tie.

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
The sun finally came out yesterday, and Sam and I got a little more boat built :D

We fabricated the gas tank hold down mechanism from a few disks of plywood cut on the bandsaw, and a 5/8 galvanized carriage bolt. The bottom disk is 5" X 1 1/8" and is countersunk from the bottom to accept the bolt head. We glued, filleted and glassed this to the sole with the bolt sticking up..

The cap is made from 2 pieces, glued together and threaded through the center. Effectively becoming an 8" wooden nut. The disks fits the hole in the tank exactly, keeping it centered, and the wooden nut holds it firmly in place. This will be topped with a locknut.

Here is a picture of the retaining cap, inverted,...

Image

Today we started early and finished cutting all the cleats, then we precoated them. While that set up a little, we sanded and prepped to install the cleats. Got most of them installed, except the ones that have to wait until after the tank goes in.

Once the cleats were done, we gave the storage compartments a coat of resin, tinted with gray pigment. This is going to work well, but it will need a couple of coats.

And here is a picture of the base glassed in place, and the cap on the bolt. You can see how it will sandwich the tank. Gray tinted epoxy in the storage lockers...

Image

Another view of about the same thing...

Image

Once this was squared away, I commandeered on of my wife's old wet suits and we cut some neoprene pads for the tank to rest on, and glued them on with contact cement.

Then we installed the tank permanently :D just before dark, and mixed and poured some foam around the corners. As usual, used a little too much foam :help: and will have to cut some out, to allow for adaequate expansion. No problem :)

It got dark and we got sticky, so no pictures of the tank yet. Maybe tomorrow.

It was a fine day today, about 70 degrees, sunny, nice breeze, Sam and I were happy to be enjoying it :D Supposed to be in the 20's again next week :cry:

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:03 pm
by Dougster
Gorgeous work as usual Larry. I'm planning on the pigment/'poxy thing in the hinterlands of the boat as well, and like that grey color. In a way I hate to see you gettin' so close to splash, 'cuz I hate to see the thread fade. Stay with us when it comes to that, and, oh yeah, you been thinkin' 'bout your next build yet?

Been likin' the ride Dougster

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've been proud to have you along for the ride, Dougster 8) But don't worry, I've got a long way to go :lol:

Next build, I don't know. The other boat I would really like is the new TW 34 trawler, but I am just not sure I'm up for sanding it, and I don't have a large enough place to build it. I could overcome the place, but still not sure I could overcome the sanding :doh: :help:

I really enjoy doing this though, so maybe someone will commision me to build them a small boat, within reasonable sanding limits :lol: Then Sam and I could keep on building, without filling the yard with boats :idea:

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:23 pm
by Betowess
Cracker, I'll comission you to build me one! But first I got to win the lotto.

I was wondering, is that your fuel line that's blue, or just a conduit for the fuel line. I'm thinking its just a conduit, and if so, how will you snake a hose that long to the engine?

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:19 am
by Cracker Larry
No the blue tube is a flexible conduit to the console for the fuel gauge sending unit wires. The gray 1"PVC is for the fuel line.

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:26 am
by Spokaloo
Larry, take the time to do a peel ply coat on the TW and you will cut your sanding to a third of what it is normally. If you really want to get nuts, laminate with an outer layer of lexan, which will give you a 100% smooth surface that requires only keying the surface for paint.

E

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:47 am
by SalmonMan
Hey Spokaloo,

Could you explain more about laminating an outer layer of lexan? I'm assuming you are talking about lexan film. How thick? By laminating are you saying to leave on the lexan film or use it like peel ply but remove it and achieve a smooth finish?

I'd like to learn more about how to use lexan film to cut out sanding.

Sorry for the hijack!

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:15 pm
by Spokaloo
See resins and paint...

E

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
I don't know about all that peel ply and lexan :doh: My results so far with plastic sheeting has been dismal. Sanding and fairing, while not easy, is at least reliable. Certainly worth a thought or two though, on something like a 34 trawler! I've got a lot to learn about that sort of stuff.

As promised, here is the tank in it's permanent home.

Image


I know it's permanent because I tried to pull it out this afternoon to make the foam trimming easier :wink: I didn't think the foam would stick to that plastic very well, but I was wrong :oops: After cutting around the edges that I could reach, prying and pulling from all around, loosing more blood, I hooked the chain fall to the tank and started hoisting. It lifted the boat right off the cradle. The tank is still attached to the boat. :lol: Another retrospective thought, I should have wrapped the tank in plastic, before pouring the foam :idea: I really didn't think it would stick that good. This stuff is like 5200 :!: Jeez, it's only in the corners.

So we trimmed all the infringing foam out, the hard way. Which wasn't really that hard, just harder than it needed to be.

Sam checked it all out real good and declared it a success, although he isn't the one with the bloody knuckles :D

Image

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:40 pm
by chicagoross
Perfect fit! I'm starting the tank install now, still looking for inspiration. Larry, what's your plan for ventilating the compartment?

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
For ventillation, I'll use 2 round louvered vents on the bulkhead. Haven't decided on the exact model yet, but they will each be a 4 or 5 inch vent.

Something like this, if the pic. works....don't know if a gif will work here?

Image

If not, see this link...

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,19665.htm

Since some water is bound to get in these, I'm also installing a drain plug, bottom center, as well as plugs on each of the side lockers.

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:04 am
by Betowess
What fun - a great picture of Sam the sea dog! That looks like where he'll will be riding in the not too distant future. He probably put his scent there - when you weren't looking. LOL

He kind of reminds me of a stray but smart Irish Setter we picked up one season - he would do his business on a seine net, which would promptly be washed out next set.

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:10 am
by o-show
Your attention to detail and cleanliness put me to shame. I must have missed something while I was on vacation last week.... What did you use to tint the epoxy and what ratio?

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:08 am
by gunner
with the ball in mouth the whole job is obviously just dogs play.

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:52 pm
by ks8
That support baffle in the middle sure is convenient. Will there be any inspection plate for the compartment? Has Sam given you a launch date yet? :)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
He probably put his scent there -
8O Sam wouldn't do that. Not in the boat :!: He's got better manners than that.
What did you use to tint the epoxy and what ratio?
OS, I got the pigment right here at BBC. It is a bargain, in that 1 ounce of pigment colors 1 gallon of epoxy, and an 8 oz. container cost $15. Which has nothing to do with my ratios since I was mixing 9 oz. batches of epoxy :doh: The stuff is a really thick gooy paste, and I dipped out about 1/4 teaspoon glob of it for each batch. I didn't feel like doing any math :wink:

Here's a link to it.. http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=12

I've been looking at your latest pictures, nothing shameful about that at all :!:
with the ball in mouth......
Sam goes where I go, and Sam's ball goes where Sam goes. He is never far from his ball :lol:
That support baffle in the middle sure is convenient. Will there be any inspection plate for the compartment?
Yes it is, once I figured out what it was for :oops: If the folks here hadn't got me thinking enough to call the company, I wouldn't have known that.

There has to be an access hatch to all the fittings, so yes, but I haven't decided which type I'll use yet. I've got both some round inspection ports and a couple of extra rectangular hatches. This weekend I'll probably work on that.

Has Sam given you a launch date yet?
Nope, he knows that everything takes at least twice as long as we anticipate, so we won't embarrass ourselves with a date. We're going to rely on the spirits that be, and she'll be finished when she's ready. 8)






[/quote]

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:37 am
by plumbertuck
I really like that tint Larry, On my last OD i slopped alot of paint into the compartments, this time I may use that tint, it does seem to be less expensive than paint and in a compartment like that I believe it would serve the purpose just fine to keep it clean looking and "lighten up " the interior

Are you thinking of those small drain plugs for the compartments, "bailer"
plugs I think they are called ?
I just had some 1" holes drilled in the bases of my compartments, problem is they would let as much in as they they let out. 8O

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:04 am
by Cracker Larry
Tuck, I will use standard 1" drain tubes with plugs to keep them sealed.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:42 am
by davidtx
Cracker Larry wrote:Tuck, I will use standard 1" drain tubes with plugs to keep them sealed.
Do you have a picture or source for these? Floors in the forelocker's are optional in the TX-18. The plans say to install them higher than the sole and drain on to the sole. I was wondering how to deal with backwash.

-david

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:47 am
by plumbertuck
I guess you would have the tube end flush on the outside of the locker and extended into the compartment to keep from maiming your toes, I did remember from previous posts you are a drain plug / tube advocate

thanks, I appreciate your advice. :D
Tuck

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:18 am
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:Tuck, I will use standard 1" drain tubes with plugs to keep them sealed.
I'll be using tubes and plugs with the pull handles, for quick pull, but I will have them under a teak or cedar grate *sole*, so the toes are safe.

Do you have a plan to recess them or build a rounded structure around them to ease the damage on toes? Or will you use threaded plugs that are recessed? (I'm thinking not threaded since you mentioned *tubes*).

Looking great. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
I was in a hurry yesterday, sorry. No bailer plugs, those are junk. I'll actually use 2 types of drains here. The fuel tank compartment will get one of these, on the outside..

Image

And the 2 storage compartments will get a standard transom style brass tube drain, like this...

Image

with rubber plugs, like this...

Image

The snap plugs of course will go to the inside of the lockers. Don't want to catch a toe on those :help: The fuel compartment drain will go to the outside, but will still remain almost flush.

The side lockers will get used as fish boxes or beer boxes, or who knows what, so they need to drain and be hosed out daily. The fuel tank compartment will just need checking once in a while. The stern lockers and sealed console compartments will all get similar drains. I've got 8 - 1" tubes and 4 - 1 1/4" tubes. I get the 3" tubes and cut them to length, so nothing sticks out either way. Then flare them in place. Each compartment has a backing block glued in where the tube will go thru, to give it some additional thickness. I'll go take a picture of that in a minute.

I also have to figure the best way to drain the anchor locker. I think it is going out the side.


I hesitate to post a source, they may be available here on BBC :?: but here is where the pictures came from :lol:

Shine feel free to delete it if it conflicts with yall 8)

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/2,332.html

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wow, I just noticed it for the first time, but that link also shows a flaring tool for the drain tubes 8O I've never seen one those commercially sold. Always used a homemade rig.

Image

I'm going to buy one of those and try it out, and when I get finished with it, I'll make it available to whoever needs it next, for the shipping charges. Then that person can ship it to whoever needs it next. And so on... We'll all use it :idea:

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:04 pm
by ks8
Of course you'll give us a few pictures when in place. :)

Yep, I've got those rubber plugs under the grate. Tried 'em without the grate first. Scarry. You know the toes would find them without even trying, even more so if you try to avoid them! :? (some sort of nautical Murphy's Law) And I like that with them, I have a couple spares for the one I might forget before the launch... :doh:

I didn't bother with the tubes for the frame drain holes, but of course, there must be a brass tube on the transom....

Thanks for the details. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Here is a port side locker with the backing block for the drain tube. All lockers have a similar backing for drains. A 3/4" block on a 1/2" frame gives 1 1/4" glueing surface length for the tube.

Image

You can also see here what 1 coat of tinted epoxy looks like, and my less than perfect tape work. I hate the way a flash makes fiberglass look :?

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:27 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, I bought the same brass drain tube as in your picture from West Marine. I am going to put the tube in my splash well. I have been staring at the thing and trying to figure out how to oversize drill the hole and redrill the thing without trashing the paint on the transom. :doh: My glassing skill level is a little rough. Does the tool you have flare the tube enough that 5200 would be good enough to seal the thing up :?: BTW, Alley is looking great :!:

Richard

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:35 pm
by ks8
Clearly, I like the idea of building up a larger surface for the brass tube...

Image

The whole length of tube fits in there now. What else do you do when a neighbor hands you lots of nice scrap mahoghany from decks he is installing? :lol:

That tinted epoxy looks very clean. Did you have any pinholes in the epoxy at all after glassing it? Will plugs be on the inside or outside?

ks

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Richard, 5200 will bond ice cubes to grease :lol: Flared or not.

You will have to trash a little paint. About 1/4" around the tube. First cover the area around the proposed hole with masking tape. Then drill hole oversized. Re-cover outside of hole with tape and fill from inside with thickened epoxy. Slap another layer of tape over the wet filler on the inside. When it cures, re-drill to correct size and remove the tape. You should only have a bare ring of 1/4" or so exposed. Paint this with an artist brush.

That's why I saved finish paint for last. I wanted all the holes drilled first :wink:

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Will plugs be on the inside or outside?
The snap plugs of course will go to the inside of the lockers. Don't want to catch a toe on those The fuel compartment drain will go to the outside, but will still remain almost flush.
:doh:

No pinholes in the epoxy :D

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:16 pm
by ks8
yep... :doh: busy day... bouncing between the keyboard, and emptying and sorting 50 boxes of 40 + years of *stuff*.

It must be nice to work with good plywood that doesn't gas out all over. No more fir for me if it can be avoided. Part of the reaon I primed and painted was the *doubt* caused by so many pinholes. They are all sealed now, but I imagine it was ridiculously simple to brush on a coat of tinted epoxy. The glass tape doesn't look bad at all. In that photo, it looks like you cleaned up the edges nicely.

Is the deck ready and waiting for the innards to be settled? Will you be tinting the underside of the deck/locker tops also?

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: Just kidding with you. I've had some long days too :D

Yes, the deck is ready to set. I don't think I'll tint the undersides. I don't see any advantages to it :?: . Locker tops are commercial hatches, pre-finished.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:29 pm
by ks8
As long as Sam is alright with it...

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:45 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, I am going to try the plug for the splash well. I have been using the Rembrandt method of painting epoxy in the limber holes and thru hule fittings. It was not good for boat building this afternoon, high 40s and humid. May freeze tonight. Many thanks....Richard

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Richard, I've ordered the flaring tool for the tubes. I should be finished with my stuff in a week if you want me to loan it to you. I'd use 2 drains in the splashwell :wink:

Froze here the last several nights. No power again last night :doh:

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:04 pm
by stickystuff
Richard, When you come up for the wire I have a flaring tool you can use.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:15 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, it was nice to have the rain with the cold fronts. The Summer was miserably dry here and hot. I wish the nice rains lately didn't have the the damaging winds with them. Good to see you have power again. :D

I didn't even know that there was a flaring tool for the drain tube before I read your post. Many thanks.

I will use Ken's flaring tool since he is local. That will allow you to send yours to another builder. 8)

Richard

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:47 am
by TomW
Larry finally getting caught up on things from this dang bug that put me down on my back for a 1 1/2 weeks. Don't even remember anything from the 21-29th of Feb.

Your boat looks good. Progress is a making and some nice touches in there. Sam is looking very proud of the progress you guys are making.

Hope this finds you, your Mom and family well.

Tom

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:06 pm
by Oceola
Larry,

Wow...almost 70 pages documenting your build.

Many times when reading forum questions I think..."I know Larry covered that subject and got a number of replies, wish I could remember what page it was on so I could post a link."
Sure would be nice if you or someone with the time could create an index to the various topics covered during your build.
Then you could post it as a seperate thread, ie;..."Index...Cracker Larry's build". Then that could be used as an easy to find link much as the how to and toutorials are used.

Frank

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:16 pm
by mecreature
You could have a whole gallery section on Sam.

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, glad you're back to health. Progress has been slow but steady. The family is doing well thanks :D
Wow...almost 70 pages documenting your build.
Frank, I think there's about 35 pages of documentation and 35 of BS :lol: but it's been a good learning experience. I don't have the time to do all that indexing, but have at it if you do 8)

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Creature, Sam says thanks. He loves showing off. He sends you this..

Image

And this is how he keeps getting glued to the floor...

Image

:lol:

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Sam wanted to let everyone know that he worked all day yesterday and it was miserable. The high temp was 48, cloudy, and the wind was blowing a steady 30, gusting to 60 8O.

We worked on fuel hoses and drain fittings mostly and about finished them up.

The fuel feed hose was real tough to fish thru the 1" conduit, since it's OD was almost an inch. The pipe had 1 too many elbows I think, and I should have used a larger pipe. After much pushing, we finally resorted to an electrical fish tape well secured to the hose, greasing the hose with Armor-All, me pulling, my wife pushing, Sam helping, we got the sucker through :D I was starting to get real concerned. My advice to you, use a 1.5" pipe for this :wink:

Image

I sure felt relieved when it came thru 8)

Image

We got the fill and vent hoses fitted and routed also. The fill was a b*tch to get snug on the fitting. More Armor-All, lots of cussing, more blood stains, we got it.

Image

Then we worked on all the locker drains. There are 7 lockers with drain fittings, all have backing blocks, most have been drilled oversized, filled and re-drilled. The new flaring tool works great!

No need to show you all of them, you seen one you seen them all. This is the outside of the anchor locker drain...

Image

And here is the drain for the fuel compartment. It started life as a 4" round fitting but we cut it flat across the bottom so it would mount flush to the sole. This thing is pricey and I was hesitant to take it to the band saw, but it worked out nice I think 8)

Image

Speaking of pricey $$. Have yall priced that type A fuel hose 8O :help: Hint, the hose costs more than the tank :wink:

Back to work. I hope it's going to be warmer today!

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:52 pm
by TomW
Larry I could hear the sailor's language up here. Glad you were able to make it work. The brass plate is awesome, nice peice of work. Type A hose is ridiculous, I cholked when I was budgeting for the boat. Shine has a very good price on it at BBC, but to late for you.

We had a couple inches of snow so quit complaining about the weather. You should have it better today.

Tom

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:31 pm
by colonialc19
Larry, really like how your sharing all your details, your da man :!:

One question, what kinda material did you bed those drain tubes into? do you use anything to seal, do you need to?

Thanks for posting,
Daniel

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:35 pm
by Dougster
Typically tasty work, and in 60 mph gusts 8O Jeez we had 40 gusts last week and I called it windy. I need to get with the powers that be and see if we can qualify you honorary Texan. Make that TEXAN. Great big man, builds in all weather. Dog measures up and got a good women too. All that and likes brown whisky. Forget the powers that be, I'm 'onna just step up and weigh in: you a qualified Texan, far as I can see. Fight the man says it's not so.

Admires old Sam and Larry Dougster

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:58 pm
by WobblyLegs
Larry, your boat is looking stunning, and your metal-work puts the professionals to shame!

Tim.

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:01 pm
by Boomer
you a qualified Texan
Is that supposed to be an honor?

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Quote:
you a qualified Texan


Is that supposed to be an honor?
:lol: Boomer, I really hated to offend old Dougster with his generosity, but I'm a Georgia Cracker to the bone. Ain't interested in being no Texan, but I appreciate it anyway and no offense to Texans :D

They do seem to appreciate the finer things in life, good dogs, good whiskey, good women, good boats and a good showing. I'm sure we'd get along just fine 8)

Here's Sam, hanging on to the ground to keep from being blown off his feet 8)

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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
We've been working on the bait tank a little bit and got the insulation cut to fit...

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Any suggestions for finishing the inside? I was thinking of cutting "V" sections of foam to round all the corners, then give it a couple of coats of glass. Not sure if that's OK right over the foam, or should I line it with 1/4 ply before glassing? If it's OK to glass over the foam, how many layers of what kind :?:

We finally got the hatch cut outs made for the transom lockers this afternoon...

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Sam and I both are glad it's not as windy or cold today :D

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:43 pm
by Boomer
Re: Live well:

There's nothing structural, I wouldn't introduce ply. Only thing I can see that it introduces in this application is a source for rot.

I'd go with a lightweight cloth, or even consider a mat to get the rigidity while while installing. What I mean is that mat is relatively more stiff, and will be easier to install in the vertical position. Mat adds nothing structurally, but you're looking for nothing structurally, so it all should work out.

FG'ing over the foam is fine, look at JM's notes on foam construction (which BTW had an excellent editing job).

If you drive up and down our by-ways, you'll see that apparently thousands of our fellow citizens do well with bait buckets made out of nothing but foam.

I think your idea of using a "V" is probably as good as any.

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:09 pm
by cedarock
Looking good Larry! I would think that if you cut them corners with the v pieces and lay the glass, you will be good to go. I can't say for sure but I have built a remote controlled airboat a while back with nothing but foam and glass and all was well. I have also built a rectangular bait well a while back and witnessed baitfish banging themselves silly on the corners.

Seeing Sam sure makes me miss my ole Rusty Dog. I know that he will enjoy the use of it as much as the build.

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:14 pm
by Dougster
Nice bait well, and I'm thinkin' glass over the foam will be good. I agree with Boomer, I mean you're not gonna be walkin' around in the things. BTW, your honorary Texas status and a buck or so will get a decent cup of coffee around here. You can tell 'em Dougster says so. You do make that bait well look nice. I'm curious to see the corner inserts before you glass.

Cares about bait wells and coffee Dougster

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:34 pm
by PastorBob
Larry, some thoughts for ya... I glassed my front locker the same way blue foam with 6oz glass right on top.... It turned out bad... so bad I tore it out... here are some thoughts from my attempt... blue foam will not absorb resin like wood so there is no bond between the foam and the glass. because of this I had problems with air pockets. another problem I had was getting the glass to stay put for layup you have to cut some weird shapes with overlaps to fit the hole. I tried 2 methods 1 was to staple the glass to the foam this did not work well. 2 spay a light coat of 3m adhesive on the foam and lay your glass on that this worked well but most of the damage was done by the time I tried it. If I were to do it again (which I probably will) I would try to use FG mat it conforms well to this kind of layup however the only mat you can use with epoxy is the stitched mat and I am not sure if it would work differently than regular mat that uses polyester binders (thats why it will not work with epoxy) I used a lot of mat in production building and other than you have to roll it for ever it will conform well for this kind of shape. another tip remember you can use duct tape for the joints in the foam. if you are going to use woven glass I would do 2 layers 4 or 6 oz. I still think mat is the way to go! Have fun rolling!!! Bob

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:55 am
by plumbertuck
:?: possibly this is overcomplicating things but
1 ) why not build another layer of foam to fit inside the layer you have in there complete with round corners and such, duct tape it up so it will retain shape and size
2) pull that "inner" layer out and glass the outside of it while it is upside down out side the boat and give it a "flange" around the top, just using the second layer of foam like a mold, then you could use that glassed piece to make a fitted liner in the bait well ?
just trying to think "outside the bait well"
the boat is looking great !!

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:10 am
by Bayport_Bob
Most house building foams have very low peel strength and a layer of fiberglass will separate from the foam if you look at it the wrong way.

If it was me, I would glue a piece of door skin plywood or cheap veneer to the outer/exposed layers of foam and then glass over that. Another alternative would be to create the airspace between the door skin and the interior box wall and fill it with 2 part polyurethane foam (small pours to keep from bowing out the wall sides).

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:22 am
by tech_support
its not structural as mentioned before, just glass right over the foam. But you may save some time and expense by first gluing in the door skin, then use some light cloth. This will reduce the amount of glass/epoxy needed.

Be sure to peel off that plastic skin before glassing. As an experiment, we built a canoe out of that blue foam - its did not last long. For a cooler, or bait tank it would be just fine.

Joel

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:15 am
by Lucky_Louis
Another echo Larry - what PastorBob said. I couldn't get epoxy/glass to stick to the foam in my seat/cooler either. I lined it with 1/8" doorskin, duct-taped on the outside (against the foam) to hold it together. Then I cheated and made 1" fake 'fillets' out of wood with a router and epoxied them to take care of the corners and glassed with 3oz finishing cloth. Worked great.

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:30 am
by tech_support
Also, you could use door skin to make a box, lower it into the space and pour expanding foam in the cavity - that foam will bond pretty well :)

You will have to hold down the doorskin box, or the foam will want to push it up when expands ...... BTW, this is how the famous Boston Whaler is built 8O

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:47 am
by kjackson
Another thought would be to cut pieces of door skin or light ply, fit them, pull them out and fiberglass with 4 ounce, then reinstall. When you fillet the corners, you'll be waterproof. By doing it this way, you lose the hassle of trying to lay cloth on a vertical surface.

However, I'm wondering if you would need cloth with door skin and a couple layers of epoxy.

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:15 am
by mecreature
Everything looks nice. I wonder if my class credits from watching this build will transfer over to a FS17..

Sam looking content as always...

my dog buddy is a female border collie mix... I have several others too.. but they cant run loose.. to many females. :)


What plummer is suggesting sounds like an interesting solution.

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:56 am
by TomW
Larry definately put something in the corners to round them. Soome bait fish are so dumb they will go there and basically stop moving and drown. The rounded corners keep them moving.

Make sure you remove the plastic off the blue board. I have found you really don't need glass if you are only using the well as a bait well. 3 layer of clear epoxy works just as well and leaves your blue color that helps the bait keep calm. It helps to rough up the blue board to get a better tooth.

My experience.

Tom

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:13 pm
by o-show
larry, You have spent so much time making this thing a work of art. Of all the builds going on your has gotta be right at the top of the list for attention to detail so I really don't think you should half @$$ the bait well by using cheep blue foam. Use hd40 foam, that way you won't have any bonding issues. How many sq feet of foam do you need? Maybe Joel has some scrap laying around the shop that he could sell you for cheep? Or I could box up some of my scrap hd40 1/2" thick foam and send it to you for free. I owe you that much..... I've learned so much from following your build.

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:36 pm
by PastorBob
I have been thinking about this off and on all day... here is a solution... build a mold out of melamine board coated with a heavy coat of mold wax or pva.... glass the mold pull it off and pop it in you could fill the cavity with pour foam or xps (polystyrene) .... you could even tint the epoxy blue while glassing... it is really not as hard as it sounds to build a simple mold just be sure that you leave a draft on the mold so it will release...

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
:doh: I sure am glad I asked this question. There seems to be opinions across the board on this and y'all have given me a few new things to consider :lol: I really appreciate everyones input. I thought that foam board may have a bonding issue. It certainly has no strength.

I thought I had reached a conclusion until I got to O-Shows last remark...
so I really don't think you should half @$$ the bait well by using cheep blue foam.
That really hurts, because he's probably right :oops: But at this point I can only move forward.

Thanks for your generous offer. I would have taken you up on it, except I've already glued this stuff in place and don't even want to consider scraping it all out again :cry: We'll have to hide it.

Considering all input, and considering that it will be used for a beer cooler as often as it will be used for bait, or even both at the same time, and that beer drinkers aren't real careful with bait knives, or anything else, I'm going to line it with plywood before glassing it.

I don't have any door skin, but I've got plenty of 1/4 meranti scrap so I'll use that and build big fillets in the corners. That way, if someone mistakes it for the anchor locker, it will survive.

Since the foam is exactly the same thickness as the cleats and they are flush, I can bring the plywood up to the top of the frames and glue it to the cleats and the foam.

The insert ideas are interesting, but at this point I think it may be easier to build it in place. The tank also has to have at least 3 hose fittings through it, fill, overflow and drain. I think these fittings will be more secure if the foam is sandwiched between ply.

Thanks everyone. I'm going to give this some more thought, until about Friday, then we're building it one way or another :D

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:49 am
by o-show
Hope my comment on half @$$ing it didn't make me sound like a tool. What do you think about graphite impregnated paint inside lockers or bait wells to give them a little more durability?

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:32 am
by o-show
And by the way, I assume the reason that so many of us try to give you advise is that we are living vicariously through your build. I for one wish I was as clean and as neat as you! I only post pics that look acceptable, you guys never see my gloppy filets, my messy floor, the pile of empty coors lite cans in the corner, or the look on my wife's face when I tell her I need the credit card so I can order more quickfair!!!

I hope you all realise that I only post comments or pics after I've spent a couple hours in the shop with an ice chest full of beer so if I say anything offensive please ignore me, my lovely wife does.

So, in a year or two you are out in the Atlantic fishing for blues and you open our bait well hatch to grab another pilchard ( is that what you guys out east call 'em?) and you notice the liner of your bait well is separating are you gonna say in your North Carolina style drawl, " dag nabbit, I was a fixin to get ready to do it the right way, I shoulda listened to o-show"?

The offer still stand Captain clean, if you want some foam send me the dimensions.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hope my comment on half @$$ing it didn't make me sound like a tool.
Not at all. That's the kind of feedback I want. It's the same kind of advice I usually give :lol:
I for one wish I was as clean and as neat as you! I only post pics that look acceptable, you guys never see my gloppy filets, my messy floor, the pile of empty coors lite cans in the corner,
I wouldn't be showing off those Coors lights in a can either :wink: But I make my share of messes, you can believe that, and just like you, I don't take pictures of those. And I try to get the half gallon whiskey bottles out of the frames. Nothing perfect about me. It takes a lot of beer to build a boat.
I hope you all realise that I only post comments or pics after I've spent a couple hours in the shop with an ice chest full of beer so if I say anything offensive please ignore me, my lovely wife does.
A man I can communicate with :lol: I'm not offended in the least.

I do appreciate the offer, but this foam is seriously glued in place with Loctite foam-board adhesive. :D I'm going to have to improve on it from here. I knew I should have asked questions before I glued them in, but I was on a roll, they looked good and I made them permanent :cry: Your advice is good, I just asked for it a day late :doh:

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Oh yeah, this...

So, in a year or two you are out in the Atlantic fishing for blues and you open our bait well hatch to grab another pilchard ( is that what you guys out east call 'em?)


I ain't out east, where in hells that? I'm down South :!: :help: We call a pilchard a pilchard and a mullet a mullet and a pinfish a pinfish, and a ballyhoo a ballyhoo, and so on :wink: What do you yanks call em?
and you notice the liner of your bait well is separating are you gonna say in your North Carolina style drawl,
Hold it right there. I'm from Georgia. It's not even the same language as those marble mouths. I've got a twang for sure, but it aint North Carolina :lol:

" dag nabbit, I was a fixin to get ready to do it the right way, I shoulda listened to o-show"?
I promise to finish it off in a satisfactory manner from here. I think it will be OK in the end. Seriously I appreciate your offer.

An ifn it duz gimme troubles, I sho be membern dis conversashun :lol: :oops:

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:11 pm
by cedarock
Dag nabbit Larry...your comment is going to make me go back and search through my pics to look for whiskey bottles. :doh:

I am sure that whatever you do with the live well, it will turn out nice and functional.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:28 pm
by PastorBob
if you cant get a chemical bond to the foam what about a mechanical bond... make a few small holes through the foam to the wood fill with thickened epoxy and glass over it kind of like you did for your through hull sonar. that should keep it from separating.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:43 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, I am kind of hesitant to offer my two cents worth but here it is for what it's worth.

Core out a square of the foam on the bottom. Epoxy a piece of wood the same thickness in its place. Ring the top of the well with SYP that is beveled on the bottom. Do the foam or filleted corners on the sides to make the bait happy. You really don't need that much of a radius in a baitwell as you know. Tape the corners and glass the inside including the ring wood. The plug on the bottom and the ring wood on top will keep the glass in place.

Dont know much about boat building but it might work ..Richard :)

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:35 pm
by o-show
Man larry, you got a way of making me laugh. However, I don't think I'm a Yank? I am a republican though so of course I think I'm smarter and funnier than everyone else and that is why I give advise about stuff I don't really know about. I live west of the rockies so naturally to me anybody east of the Mississippi has an odd accent. I work with a girl from South Carolina and everytime I read a post from somebody back east ( no offense intended) or down south, I hear Carol-Anne's crazy accent going through my head. And by the way I have no idea what a pilchard is. I read about them in sport fishing magazines and assume its a bait fish?

Sorry for being off topic, I didn't mean to jack your builders thread so I'll stay silent for awhile. [/i]

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:46 am
by PastorBob
Larry what ever happened to those thanksgiving pigs you caught...

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
I didn't mean to jack your builders thread
This is my thread and you can say anything you want 8)

Bob, I think drilling the holes would be a great idea for glassing right over the foam and getting a bond, but all in all, I think plywood with glass over it is the better solution.

The Thanksgiving pigs became Easter hogs. Hope you're not sorry for asking
:lol:

Image

It's a nice afternoon and Sam and I are heading out to do some building. Off until Monday so we might get something done.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:31 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
:D What time's dinner? :o

Huck

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:14 am
by robbiro
I see a major hog cooking coming about. Enjoy!!

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:12 pm
by jayb01
Is it time to start discussing the various BBQ sauce types yet?

Mustard based, vinegar based, or tomato/ketchup based?

Or perhaps a nice dry rub?

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:33 pm
by Chickenhawk
With that picture.......Who needs a Brisket? Not I. Having a feeling that the pork is about to start a tasty highjack.

A VERY nice build you have, and one that many follow. Keep up the great work.


Rusty

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:39 am
by Betowess
Cracker, that kinda looked like one big Halibut, at least I thought it was for an instant before reading. They call them hogs in AK too. Looks like someone is going to be having some pork slabs for breakfasts!''

I was kind of wondering if that PVC was a little too skinny, when you posted it was for the fuel line. Now I'm just wondering, did you try putting the fuel hose ends in near boiling hot water before slipping on the tank fittings? It makes it much easier...BTW, The aft lockers (and the whole boat) looks terrific - I sure appreciate all your effort at great documentation. Here's a brown water toast!

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall very much :D Toasting back. Appleton rum today :wink:

Vinegar based BBQ sauce. Mustard's OK too. I don't do brisket. :? Why bother with something that needs that much cooking?

The PVC pipe was almost too skinny, but it worked. It also had one too many bends in it. Didn't try the boiling water :idea: I didn't think of that but it sounds like a great idea. Still got more hose fittings to attach, so I'll give it a try.

Boat building has been slow. Dori had other plans for me. So far this weekend I've bought a new mower, and cut the grass, bought a new patio door, installed a new 12' gate, dug and burned out big tupelo stump, repaired some fencing, pulled and replaced some fence posts, trimmed the grape vines, and cut out the plywood to line the bait well. And I gave it a coat of epoxy. :lol:

Tomorrow maybe I'll be left to my own devices.

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:02 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
I good reminder that even the best builders have to be good husband's, too. :wink:

Huck

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
The wife went to town today :D and Sam and I just about got the bait well finished. We had cut out the plywood panels and gave them 2 coats of epoxy..


Image

It's spring time in GA and the pollen is falling like a fog. Everything is a yellow green color, including all fresh epoxy!

We glued the plywood over the foam and cleats, this took an assortment of clamps and braces....

Image

While that set, we had a few beers, then we filleted all the corners using a 2" PVC pipe for the filleting tool. Made big radius corners. Had a couple more beers then taped over the corners and the bottom...

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It will get one more layer of glass, and I don't think we'll ever have a problem out of it :D

We also drilled all the screw holes for the stern hatches, taped them up and filled with epoxy and gave the undersides of the locker tops a coat of epoxy.

Image

Slow but sure 8)

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:42 pm
by Cracker Larry
This evening we trimmed off the excess tape. I usually use a coping saw for this. Quick and easy, just the way I like it.

We had left a gap in the foam board between the plywood panel and the clamping board at the stern, to allow clearance for the lifting ring hardware. This we had permanently installed yesterday with 5200. We filled that gap forever with 2 part foam. I'm getting a lot better at estimating the foam
:D Didn't hardly make a mess with this batch for the first time ever. Just needs a little trimming. This should keep the beer cold and the bait happy.

Image

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:05 am
by Lucky_Louis
Great solution Larry! That'll keep the naysayers at bay for a bit. Bait'n'beer alike will be happy and proud to live in them fine lockers.

Better be careful or before you know it, that battleship of yours and Sams' will be done... :wink:

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks LL, still got a ways to go.

We worked on the dang baitwell again this afternoon. Are yall tired of my baitwell yet :?:

I drilled the holes for the drain and overflow fittings. The drain will be a standard 1" tube so I drilled it oversized to 1 1/4 ". The overflow will be larger and I drilled it 1 1/2". I found there was a small gap inside between the plywood liner and the foamboard, maybe 1/8". This won't do at all, water might get in there. You can see the gap here..

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So we decided to pour some 2 part foam in the holes and let the expansion fill the hollow spots. I covered the outside of the hole and masked around the inside with duct tape. Mixed about 2 teaspoons of foam and poured both holes.

2 part foam is some real handy stuff to keep in the shop :wink:

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This worked good. The foam won't bond to duct tape. I let it cure a while then trimmed it off flush inside and removed the outside tape.

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Then we drilled back through the foam with the original sized hole saws and taped the outside flush again.

Mixed up some epoxy thickened with milled fibers, wood flour and silica and packed it in the holes, then slapped some more duct tape over it.

Warm today and it cured real fast contained like this in the holes. Pulled off the tape after about 30 minutes and it looks like this...

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Later I'll drill them to their permanent size for the fittings. I don't think they will ever cause a problem :D

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:10 pm
by JIM M
Cracker Larry wrote
Are yall tired of my baitwell yet
I was thinking of how to do mine and now you and Sam splained it real good. Thanks

Jim

Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:00 am
by cottontop
Man Larry, You sure do good work. All of us can take lessons from you and your build. John

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:21 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, we never get tired of seeing your work. Watching your build has made me have no fear of popping holes in the side of my boat.

Larry, I saw something today that you might be interested in. I know that you are using Tempress hatches. They sell inserts for them that kind of look like the plastic battery boxes. They pop out easily for access to pumps etc. You probably already know about them but I thought I would mention my find just in case. It would be a good place to store dead bait or warm beer or both. :wink:

They apparently don't make them for my Bomars. :doh:

Richard

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Richard. I've seen those, may get a couple.

Cottontop, I'm still learning as I go :doh:

Sam and I made an afternoon of it, and yall won't have to see much more of the baitwell. We coated the undersides of the locker covers with tinted epoxy. Someone had asked if I was going to do this and I said no, but then I figured what the heck, we've got enough pigment for 50 hatches, need to give them a couple of coats of epoxy anyway, so we tinted them...

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And we drilled out the fiberglass plugs we had made earlier for the drain fittings. We won't install the fitting until after the finish paint, but we're ready.

And gave the baitwell it's last coat of tinted epoxy also. I like this stuff :D ...

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Then we began glueing down the tops, starting with the motorwell cover...

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Then the outside lockers...

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Tomorrow we'll tape it all down 8)

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:49 pm
by chicagoross
Looks like you may soon be running out of things to do besides sanding and painting! Beautiful work as always! Great details.

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:32 am
by TomW
Your getting closer and closer guy. Love that chunk of steel.

Tom

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:54 pm
by cedarock
Everything is coming together and looks great. I can't wait to see it at the end!

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all, we're getting there. Things go much slower towards the end, more planning is necessary for systems. More pondering required at this stage:lol:

That is a fine chunk of steel, isn't it Tom! That old piece old RR rail has been with me a long time. Quite a paperweight.

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:58 pm
by cape man
Larry,

Been going back through as many of the tutorials and forums as I can (still sitting in my PJs @ 13:00!!). Just want to personally thank you for documenting all this as well as you did as it is going to help TREMENDOUSLY with my build (foam space for butt blocks between sole panels, chase tube position and size, etc. etc. etc.). The plans are great and based on the projects I have followed it appears they make a strong and true boat...but there are a lot of details that aren't there.

Did anyone ever respond to your idea of gluing the lower and upper side panels before attaching to the frames? I have friends, but am planning on most of this being a one man job late at night in the barn.

Cape Man

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
You're very welcome Cape Man. :D If it helps someone, it's worth my time doing it. The plans are great, but they do leave a lot to the imagination. I guarantee this is a strong (and mostly true) boat :lol:

No one ever responded the idea of glueing the panels together flat and installing them as 1 unit. I figured they all thought I was nuts, but it seems feasable to me. :doh: I found it real difficult to get the upper panel to bend and stay flat against the lower one with the entire 18' panel smeared with glue. Ended up using all kind of alignment blocks and about 50 drywall screws on each side. It still didn't come out perfect. Glueing them together first couldn't be any harder than that method was.

It's still going to take 2 people to install them, either way. This was one job where I needed more help than Sam could provide.

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:51 pm
by cape man
Thanks. I'm still a long ways from there as I need to get the epoxy and glass ordered and make the stringers, but that idea really stuck in my head. My concern is that the panels won't bend correctly if glued flat - kind of like rolling up two sheets of paper. As you said once (or twice), pondering...

Going to drill a hole for the steering/controls chase tube in the starboard stringer before attaching, and tape them both down from the beginning (see, someone's listening). You said you raised the sole 1/2" above the plans' specs. Did you increase the height of the stringers originally or add the height when you installed the cleats? Wish I had read that part earlier as I have cut the sole and raising it now will pull it away from the sides :doh: :cry:

Jumping way ahead (for me at least), what are you planning for a water pick up for the bait well? I have been known to beat the water with flies every now and then, own a lot of lures, but when the snook are stacked up I can go through a LOT of bait in a day live chumming to keep them feeding in a good spot. I need plenty of water flowing at all times, and without a good high speed pick up their dead. Seems like it would be better to go ahead and make the hole for it now and fill it with epoxy. Didn't see anything in your thread.

Also, what was ever decided on the scuppers/sole drain? I too need a boat that will shed water fast, and the 1" hole going to the motor well and bilge pump doesn't seem enough. Are you going out the sides?

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
My concern is that the panels won't bend correctly if glued flat - kind of like rolling up two sheets of paper.
I'd really like to hear Jacques' answer about that. I don't know either.
You said you raised the sole 1/2" above the plans' specs. Did you increase the height of the stringers originally
Yes, the plans call for lumber yard 2X6s, which are about 5 1/2". I made the stringers from 3/4 plywood and cut them 6" high.
Wish I had read that part earlier as I have cut the sole and raising it now will pull it away from the sides
You could split it down the center and put in a filler strip a couple of inches wide like Familyman did.
, what are you planning for a water pick up for the bait well?
Funny you should ask. I'm just getting ready to install it, and I'll do it just like the other ones. Drilled oversize, filled, re-drilled. Here is the pickup and sea cock fitting. It will mount thru the backing block it's laying on...

Image
Also, what was ever decided on the scuppers/sole drain? I too need a boat that will shed water fast, and the 1" hole going to the motor well and bilge pump doesn't seem enough. Are you going out the sides?
Good question :doh: I have put in a temporary nuisance water drain that is 1 1/4" thru the rear frame in the center. It drains to the sump which also has a drain plug, and a bilge pump. You can see it here...

Image

This is only temporary until I get the motor on the boat, load it and see how she floats. I would like to think she's high enough for side scuppers, I'd prefer that, but I doubt it. They will probably have to go through the transom in which case I've reserved an area for them.

This picture is looking through the motorwell cover at the transom. On either side of the lower clamping board at sole level, there is a rectanglur 4"X 6" spot where I will run a couple of pipes, transom to bulkhead, with shutoff valves.

Image

But I want to see her float first, just to make sure I don't make a serious mistake. :help:

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:53 pm
by cape man
Thanks for the reply. Getting that top panel to bend and seat properly was the first thing I started fretting about when looking at the plans, especially since it makes the shear line at the end. Counting on it working as described, and I'm real familiar with drywall screws. Maybe we can get Jaques to reply, but I'm pretty sure I mknow what his answer will be. Like the idea of having an extra 1/2" on the sole and will follow your lead on that one. The strip down the middle is such a simple fix I can't believe I didn't think of it. Some extra butt blocks and tape, but a 1/2" is a 1/2". Does Family Man have a thread or gallery? Saw quite a few posts from him in your thread but nothing came up when I searched the forum.

Love the pick up and placement for proximity to the well. Any thoughts on it creating a disturbance that close to the prop? The first time I rigged a Lithia pick up (PVC through the back of the boat, extending just below the transom) I had a horrid cavitation problem. I assume the design of a "real" pickup is to get water up without creating a mess in the flow behind it, or maybe the few inches of bottom behind it will take care of it.

Great plan on splashing first before opening up the sides for the scuppers. I'm usually running light, but there will be times when this baby is going to haul a week's worth of gear (food, fuel, gear, people) out to a lonely place. Putting in the shut-offs is a great idea, especially since there will be plenty of room.

I too have had a case where the water needed to get off the deck FAST, but unfortunately the scuppers didn't handle it and the boat swamped in a pretty bad sea when the second wave came in. We were able to steer out of it and eventually the bilge pump caught up, but it was no fun watching the water poor down into the bilge faster than out the scuppers. The waterproof sole should make this thing unsinkable, which is one big reason I ended up with JM's plan.

Any way you're bringing Alley Green to CR? If not, I may bug you in November. I muzzleload the first week at my older sister's place in Virginia and run through Savanna.

By the way. The glass and epoxy are ordered. I'm really in now! You guys are either gonna love me or hate me by the end of this :lol: :lol:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:26 am
by mecreature
Looking pretty sweet Larry.

All the pre-thought is my weak point. Good to see it in alot of builds I have watched.. guess I will get better at it...

I like the pic above of Sam and the GF... the old shed and gate in the background... it tells a good story.

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Does Family Man have a thread or gallery?
Yes, let me find it. He's got one of the nicest ODs I've seen.

Here's his thread, it was down a couple of pages...
http://gallery.bateau2.com/forum/viewt ... 0f46475dc4

Here's his gallery...

http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=562

Here is his widened sole...

Image

Image

This is why they call him Familyman :wink:

Image

Sweet, huh :?:
Love the pick up and placement for proximity to the well. Any thoughts on it creating a disturbance that close to the prop?
It's about 14" forward of the transom and it has a low profile so I don't think it will be a problem.

Any way you're bringing Alley Green to CR? If not, I may bug you in November. I muzzleload the first week at my older sister's place in Virginia and run through Savanna.
No, it won't be finished in time. The GF 16 will be going to CR as a stand in. I think Family Man is bringing his.

You're welcome to stop in anytime. You could just shoot a deer while you're here and save yourself some driving :lol:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:50 pm
by TomW
Larry I'm so tired of winter it is snowing again here. We should be warm by now and I should have the little boat about finished instead it hasn't been warm enough to work on it for days. Only 2 last week. The grass hasn't even grown enough to cut it. I don't remember a winter this cold in quite a while.

Please send me some warm weather from down there. :( We have been getting plenty of rain though and the reservoirs are filling up. :D

Tom

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Same here Tom. Believe it or not I've only mowed once and that was just to test the new mower. We're supposed to be below freezing again tonight and the wind is blowing about 30, again. Not only the coldest spring I can remember, but the windiest. Our rivers and creeks are finally filling too, that's a good thing, but I'm ready for some warm now. Our high today was only low 50s. Should be in the 80s. Global warming my @ss :doh:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:24 pm
by Mad Dog
TomW wrote:Larry I'm so tired of winter it is snowing again here. We should be warm by now and I should have the little boat about finished instead it hasn't been warm enough to work on it for days. Only 2 last week. The grass hasn't even grown enough to cut it. I don't remember a winter this cold in quite a while.

Please send me some warm weather from down there. :( We have been getting plenty of rain though and the reservoirs are filling up. :D

Tom

Tom, I'll trade you warm weather for some rain! Its so dry in the southwest we actually had "mud showers" last week. That was weird. 8O

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:29 pm
by cedarock
Sorry to be off topic but we are melting away here too. It was supposed to get to 50 today but that didn't happen. In fact, we had snow flurries early this morning and a cold drizzle all day. I too am ready for spring like temps!

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:41 pm
by chicagoross
My slow hardener MarinEpoxy still is warming my hand by the time you stir it 90 seconds. I'd ship you some 90 degree temps if I could!

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
I like the pic above of Sam and the GF... the old shed and gate in the background... it tells a good story.
It tells I'm a cracker in the swamp anyway. The old shed is my pumphouse. Behind it is the chicken yard and hog pen :lol:

I'm surprised no one has ever picked up on my shooting bench, sandbags and the pistol target stop in the front yard. It's in a lot of photos, way at the top.

Image

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:34 pm
by cape man
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... &pos=0[img]

Found Family Man's gallery late last night. Had actually seen it before finding your thread, and agree...Awesome boat! Was one of the reasons I decided to try and build one. Thought the strip down the middle was decorative, but now I know what it is :doh:

We got to hook up sometime. I've got 25, 50, and 100 marked out in the back of the property and plan on building permanent benches at each. I saw your range in earlier posts. I usually haul up to my sister's overnight, but may try and stop by on the way home.[/img]

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:17 am
by Cracker Larry
Anytime, Cape Man. Nice pig.

That's just the pistol range in front. Out back we've got targets out to 300 and a skeet field with electric traps 8)

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:18 am
by Cracker Larry
I just realized that last Saturday, March 22, marked 1 full year on this build. Roughly 400 hours working time. I didn't think it would take this long.

Things are fixin to change though. Time for a new direction. I'm taking an open ended leave from my primary job, giving up the corporate world again, for the third time.

We're going to finish this boat, maybe build another, do some extended traveling in the islands, do some adventuring, search for Mayan treasure, maybe write a book, then who knows :doh:

In the last 6 weeks we've lost 2 close family members and had to put 2 more in nursing homes. Life is too short and fickle. Dori and I have decided it's time to break the routine and enjoy more of it while we can. We are re-organizing our priorites and making some changes starting now.

Yesterday was my final day at the office where I've worked steady for the last 3 years. The anchor's been down too long. Today I'm returning to full time boat bum/adventurerer and seeker of opportunities :D

Wish me luck :!: Must be time for a beer :D

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:24 am
by mecreature
where is that envy emoticon..


I will have a beer with ya.

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:27 am
by jeremy
Congratulations Larry! That sounds like a great move for you and your wife. Just make sure to check in here from time to time during your adventures.

Hmm, does this mean the VG26 will be the next boat? :D

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:42 am
by Cracker Larry
I think the TW34 would be the more likely candidate, if I can find someone to sand it :lol:

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:47 am
by JimW
Cracker Larry wrote: Today I'm returning to full time boat bum/adventurerer and seeker of opportunities :D :D
If I could shake these two youngins (21 and 24) loose from the money tree, I'd be right behind you. I figure build a few boats, coach a few up and coming cyclists, officiate a few big races from a nice old quiet BMW motorcycle (pay+ expenses+ MILEAGE!), etc.

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:39 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Congratulations, Larry! That is great news. It is nice to see a husband and wife who have been together this long still wanting to go on adventures together. Good luck, good building, and good hunting!

Huck

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:01 pm
by donk
Right on!!!

If you can you should!!

I also hope you keep us posted. Your build continues to be an inspiration to many of us. A bigger boat would give us that much more to work through with you.

Makes me want to have a beer.

don

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:14 pm
by TomW
Congratulations Larry, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. It sure has been an emotional time for you and you sure deserve the break Does that mean we get to meet Dori in Crystal River. I wish you well in your new endeavors and may you have fun in what you do. Have a few on me. :wink:

Tom

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:27 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Way to go Larry! Image

I'm sure your Pa would be proud of you getting your priorities just right. You remind us all that today truly is the first day of the rest of our lives.

Of course there's that other old sayin' - "No bucks, no Buck Rogers" (TW34) :lol:

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:42 pm
by Oceola
Larry,

Congradulations..."You only live once but if you do it right, once is enough".

But hey, fess up , you didn't quit, you got canned for tracking sawdust and primer dust into the office. :lol:

And a note for you guys going to the Florida Builders Meet...Remember, Larry financed this boat with poker winnings, AND he's thinking about building a TW-34?...Leave your credit cards at home boys! :P

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
They can't just can me Frank, I'm part owner of the company :D

And you really didn't have to remind them of that :roll:

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:31 pm
by Tagged
Beers to you, Cracker! And Beers to everyone getting their priorities straight!

I'll drink one here in your honor tonight!

Tag

BTW, great build.

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:38 pm
by cedarock
Thats great Larry! Pull the anchor and good luck with your next port of call. Can't wait to see your next build, whatever it may be.

I am celebrating with you.

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:18 pm
by Cracka
Congratulatons Larry, enjoy yourself mate.

The boat is looking awesome, well done.

Mick.

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:59 pm
by timoub007
Congrats Larry. Now maybe you will get the OD done by the meet and get your case of beer.

That is awesome and a good way to live.

Tim

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:36 pm
by cape man
Just hit 20 with UF. Have ten to go. Think of us poor working slobs every now and then.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:42 pm
by davidtx
Thanks for the pictures and notes on the livewell drain and overflow - I hope to be there in the next few weeks. What are you going to use to valve the drain?

I was just looking at that pickup on Hamilton Marine from your posting in my livewell thread. Which size did you use?

-david

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:38 pm
by Dougster
Danged if you don't continue to be an inspiration. Post as you can, you're an old friend here.

Agrees to beers all around Dougster

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:09 pm
by robbiro
Way to go Larry! I wish you all the best (Dori, your son, Sam and Delilah also) and if I did hoist a few I would, so I guess that I will hoist a good glass of iced tea for you! Enjoy the time that you get with family, friends, boats and adventuring. If you come through this part of the US, and need to stop and catch your breath, just yell,

Keep on Buildin'' and all the other stuff that you do :!:

Robbie

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
Don't worry, I'm not leaving earth I hope :lol: Even my favorite palm thatched palapa in Belize has high speed Internet now. I guess that's a good thing, but I have mixed emotions :?

And we've still got to finish this boat.

Robbie, are you near the casinos?

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've got this perfect spot waiting, it will only take about 10 days to run the boat down there when she's finished...

Image

In the meantime we're working to finish her. We got those stern locker tops glued in, then we trimmed them flush, filled and filleted them, rounded the edges and got them ready for tape. Then we dry fit all the tape...

Image

Then we wet out all the tape...

Image

And we've got the sole about ready to cover with the 9 oz. woven. I guess I should glass the sole before taping down the console :?:

Image

Our teleflex shift and throttle control showed up on the big brown truck, so with Sam's close supervision we made the cut out for that using the template...

Image

He is mostly satisfied that I didn't screw it up...

Image

We gave the control cutout 2 coats of epoxy to seal the edges. After it set up good we sanded the entire console inside and out. Then we took the hose and scrub brush to it and scrubbed off the dust and pollen. Pollen count today 4,000 ppcm 8O.

Image

Tomorrow I hope to get the inside of the console compartments coated with tinted epoxy, a coat of fairing compound on the outside of the console, and the cockpit sole covered with 9 oz. woven cloth :D Maybe a little ambitious for a retired dog, but we'll see how it goes.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
I was just looking at that pickup on Hamilton Marine from your posting in my livewell thread. Which size did you use?

-david
David, it's 3/4 NPT

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:34 am
by TomW
Hey Larry looking good those chairs are meant for you! :lol:

Oh the boat looks pretty good to :!:

Tom

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:42 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Nice Beach, WOW!!
About 70 to Vicksburg on the Mississippi River Casinos and about 60 to the Choctaw Indian casinos in Philadelphia, MS. AG is getting better all the time. I finished shaping the runners for FIRST LIGHT tonight and will try to get them in place Saturday, also got the backing plates on for the oarlocks on CRUSADER tonight.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:12 pm
by Irish
Hi Larry,
Fantastic build, hope my GF16 turns out half as good (Maybe a quarter) Still waiting on plans to arrive.
:?: How long did you wait before applying additional layers of cloth to the bottom of the hull, did you have to sand between layers.
Irish

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
I didn't wait. I did it all at once, one after another, so I wouldn't have to sand :wink:

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:57 am
by gerry
Hi Larry,

I have been following your work a lot, I feel like a young apprentice, but only have a two afternoons a week to practice. Wish I could do this boat building full time...but work does give me break from sanding!!

Great news,
Gerry

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Gerry. I think this would be a tough full time job :lol: My arms are numb from sanding, glassing and fairing.

Sam and I first sanded the entire inside of the hull, all of it :help:

Then we cut and fit the glass to cover the sole and lower sides. I'm glassing up to the style line on the sides, and both frames to the top. This woven cloth is really tough to work with. It took us a long time to get it fitted to satisfaction.

We had to do it in 2 runs, with a 6" or so overlap in the center. I made the wide overlap to provide a crown for water run off.

Image

I only thought fitting it was a bitch. Wetting it out was something else again :? It wanted to slide, wrinkle, and make bubbles all over. Trying to move the resin around moves the cloth too. You can chase the bubbles out to an edge, then find the cloth is pulled away from the sides or corners, so you fix that, then ya got more bubbles. Very aggravating, but we got that side done finally, with most of the bubbles out, and took up drinking for the rest of the day...

After an evenings recovery we tackled it again, cutting and fitting the starboard side....

Image

This time we had us a few pre-emptive beers before the wet out, which didn't help a bit but didn't hurt either. After another long struggle duplicating the day before, chasing bubbles and sayin sailor words, we got it whipped almost to satisfaction. I used more resin than I should have, just couldn't get it to spread out without messing up the cloth. I used a foam roller, a plastic squeegee and a drywall knife. Still got a few bubbles.

After 2 days of messing with this, I have learned no tips or tricks to share, and all future soles by the Cracker will be biax, not woven :lol:

Oh yeah, we did get a coat of fairing on the console, also, which was uneventful.

Image

Unfortunately my arms are too numb to sand it.

Crazy weather still, yesterday was in low 80s. Today it is 48 and windy:doh:

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:10 pm
by Q
Cracker Larry wrote:After 2 days of messing with this, I have learned no tips or tricks to share, and all future soles by the Cracker will be biax, not woven :lol:
Ahhh....but Larry.....you've taught me an important lesson unknowingly, sir. I was going to use woven on the Robalo's sole. I'm rethinking it thanks to you and your aggravations of late....

You Larry, teach when you least expect it! :D

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:44 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
What difference would rolling a thin layer of epoxy on the sole and sides first and then placing the cloth on that then roll over that with the roller and see where you need to wet the cloth more after that. I tried something similar when I put down the tape on the D5 and it seemed to hold it in place better than when I tried other methods. You are still the teacher on how to do so much about building boats, life, running boats and telling the true stories of your life.' thanks for all of that and more.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie :doh:

Hope that the runners go on FIRST LIGHT today 8O

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
Robbie, I use that method for biax tape and cloth, works great, but you'd never get this stuff to lay flat over wet epoxy without a lot of wrinkles.

On a positive side, all the weave is filled :lol:

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:45 pm
by chicagoross
8O Well, laying woven on the sole (as recommended in the "options" for my boat) is the order of the day for me (or the order of the next few days...) :help: Wish I knew now what I didn't know then but I've already had the materials shipped so will continue on plan. I know I hate the woven tape that is called for for half the boat compared to the biax tape which lays down nicely without bubbles. Wish me luck, didn't have much problem using the woven fabric on the side hull panels, maybe I'll get lucky again. Definitely agree, though, the next boat will be all biax, I definitely have more problems working with the woven. As always, your boat looks fantastic!

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks CR, so does yours 8)

I haven't had any luck with the woven tape either. My build called for it in places, mainly the console, but I got so frustrated with it I quit using it long ago :doh:

There must be some tricks, but I don't know them. I think if I had just put it flat on the sole it might would have been OK.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:54 pm
by davidtx
When I was over at Dougster's today helping him flip the Nina, drinking his beer and eating his BBQ, we were talking about glassing my sole. He asked if I really needed to glass it at all since I was going to use the KiwiGrip. After reading of your fun with the woven cloth, I'm wondering the same thing myself...

I figured this stuff would be easier to work than biax. Sounds like it might be easier to wet out, but harder to work the bubbles out.

-david

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:15 pm
by robbiro
Well, it was worth the asking :!: :!: :doh: :!: I have never tried the woven fabric in pieces that large, and I can see where they would give you fits and need more arms than a gaggle ( :?: no guess what a group would be called) :?: of octopuses to get straight and then have some poor octopus get glued in to boot, BIG MESS.
AG is looking great Larry keep at it. finished the prep work on the runners and bottom of FL and hope to get them glued down in an hour or so. Need to take a break and let my back rest first, don't need a recurrance of October.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:37 pm
by stickystuff
If you had one of the plastic or aluminum rollers for rolling out the air it would have been a lot easier. They are worth their waight in gold when it comes to this. They come in about 4 diff. sizes and styles. kind of late to mention this. sorry. Thought you had some already.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:42 pm
by Cracker Larry
When I was over at Dougster's today helping him flip the Nina, drinking his beer and eating his BBQ, we were talking about glassing my sole.
I envy you drinkin beer with Dougster. Not sure about that Texas brisket :doh:

I'd glass the sole. It will get anchors and chains dropped on it, sinkers, boots, who knows what. I'd use biax though.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
If you had one of the plastic or aluminum rollers for rolling out the air it would have been a lot easier.
Oh, now you tell me. Never needed them for biax cloth, so no, I don't have any of those. Yet :D Live and learn. Thanks Ken. I still think the stuff is a pain in the @ss. But I'll get a couple to try.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:44 pm
by ks8
Looking good CL! :)

Woven isn't bad if you are doing a large outside curved surface. As soon as you have any sort of corners where the plane changes, especially on a curve, like you running the glass up to the style line from the sole, it gets funky. The outside of my hull went uneventful (cept for a batch that went off very unexpectedly and almost glued the chip brush to the bottom! warm in the tent that day... and I was working out of the cup in those early days, instead of a bowl) , but I used separate pieces for the sides (with overlaps), and it was *outside* (convex) curves. Straight or concave surfaces can be troublesome. On the flat seat tops, I did what Robbiro suggested and it helped much, ie, light to medium layer of wet epoxy on surface first, then roll out cloth into it, but for this to work, the cloth needs to be rolled up dry off of the surface very carefully and neatly and squarely, and not deformed at all before it gets rolled out again. Rolling onto a cardboard tube is easy, or folding *very very carefully*.

On my seat tops, I made registration marks on the seat top and the cloth every two feet with a sharpie pen, before rolling it up, so I could evaluate how well it was rolling into position into the wet epoxy. It worked, making slight adjustments in the roll out very easy, before things got all ugly. Didn't even try to run it up the sides. But if it is warm out, that thin *sticky* coat (to hold the cloth in place) can start to set up, and then the cloth won't wet out properly, so it is a timing and finesse thing. Port seat top was very nice. Stbd had a few spots where the cloth lifted (floated) on slightly too much epoxy, which then pooled under it. When I sanded later, of course, the glass on the tops of these epoxy pools was cut right through, but it meant only about .5 to .75 inch circle of missing glass. Since I glassed for some abuse guard, and to prevent fir from checking, this was well within acceptable limits for me. Fairing made it, visually, a non issue entirely.

I didn't try the beer method of frustration management. I figured it would numb one source of stress and frustration, but introduce several more... :lol:

I can't stand the cloth tape. I suppose on huge projects with very gentle curves, it might be more workable, but on small boats with strong corners and curves, no thanks, if biax is available. Biax tape... is there any other kind?

CL... your cloth went on well, what with running it up the side like that. Certainly takes patience, or an effective way of venting frustration during the layup. 8O Woven, I think, takes less fairing materials than biax of same weight, but cutting into fibers of woven compromises more strength than cutting slightly into biax fibers. Light woven can't be beat for toughening up sections that will be bright finished (had to give woven some credit before we rallied up a lynch mob :lol: ).

I don't recall. Are you doing the full gun'l treatment? Looks like, if you couldn't wait, you could do some sea trials soon!

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:42 am
by TomW
Larry glad your past that stage whew thought you were going to drink yourself to Belize for a week of two to recover. Now on to the fairing and the painting and you may have AG ready for the end of April yet. Nah. :lol: May the sun shine on you and yours every day.

Tom

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:54 am
by chicagoross
Larry, got the first 50" of woven on the sole today. Like you said, bubbles and sailor words. Got it pretty flat, still have another 12" or so to go on my poop deck, can do that with leftover before going to the C/D lowered sole. If it's any consoloation, I remembered the one good thing about the woven fabric - "filling the weave" consists of one more coat of neat eopxy with a chip brush. Least that's my technique! :D

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:46 am
by Spokaloo
Ive always liked doing the second coat the Gougeon brother's way:

One foam roller in hand, one split foam roller in a pair of vise grips. Roll on a thin coat of epoxy, generally in 2 sq ft areas at a time. After covering that spot, drag the split roller over it with a little bit of pressure (not much, just some). This will leave a super smooth, stipple and brush mark free surface thats extremely easy to do the finish work on. This technique works ridiculously well on woven fabric, and reduces the amount of epoxy in both the smoothing phase and the later fairing phase because you sand less.

Just another idea!

E

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:29 pm
by timoub007
Eric,

What is a split foam roller? Got a pic? I just acquired 50 yards of woven fabric that I'm going to play with on some projects. After reading Larry's woes I'm wondering if it is worth it or if I'll be cussing like him. :lol:

Larry, looking good. Thanks for continuing your thorough explanation of each and every detail.

T

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:45 pm
by Spokaloo
take a foam roller and literally split it. making two half-circle shaped pieces.

Its half of a roller. Not cutting a 9" wide roller into two 4.5" rollers, but taking a 3" roller and cutting it through the center so that you have two 3" smoothers.

Stuck in hotel room in South Dakota, if its unclear, let me know tomorrow.
E

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:51 am
by TomW
Timbou sort of 1/2 moon shaped.

Tom

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:39 am
by o-show
I feel for you Larry, i've laid about 100 feet of 50" woven. The weave is so tight that air cannot escape through the cloth. one trick I learned was for areas that I had large bubbles of air that I couldn't get out I put a tiny slit in the glass with an exacto knife. This gave the air an escape route. putting a thin layer of epoxy on the work area first sounded like a good idea and I tried it once. Big mistake, I couldn't re-positon without deforming it.

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:01 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, that's how I did it too, O-Show. My trusty Kershaw cut many small slits to let out the air.

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:41 pm
by Spokaloo
Hm, are you guys using the laminate rollers? Ive never really had the problems you are talking about when Im using that thing and squeegees.

E

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:45 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Use a bubble breaker roller if you have one. It is an aluminum roller that has spikes on it and it fits on a standard roller frame. It digs into the weave of the cloth and breaks the bubbles. Larry, I also thought the woven cloth was hard to work with. I won't use woven cloth again...Richard :D

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:11 pm
by Dougster
I used woven on my first and only other experience. It was my "learning" build, a little 8" Devlin Dinghy. Had holy hell with the stuff, just like folks have described. Dreaded the experience with Nina and was overjoyed at the ease of biax. God bless the stuff. Are there any benefits to woven? If not I can't see ever using it, or that awful woven tape.

Says never seen no bubble buster but that woven was another kind of buster Dougster

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:07 pm
by robbiro
The more that I read the more that I learn. I only hope that I can transfer some of this to my projects. Larry I say thanks a lot, but once again THANK YOU for the detail that you go to and the way that you possibly unconsciously teach while you build and document each step.
I have an unrelated question for you and if you choose not to answer this, so be it!! On your GF-16, could it have handled a 30+ hp motor by the USCG calculations? (NO, I am not going there!!!??!!!) I was trying to figure mine and came up with a number that I was not expecting and the numbers that I used was 15.91' length 4.41' transom width, 20.5" transom and steered from the mid seat with stick steering (not tiller) on left and power/gear control on right. Could that number be higher than the one I stated above?

Keep on Buildin' While I PONDER this situation 8O

Robbie

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:02 am
by ks8
Dougster wrote:It was my "learning" build, a little 8" Devlin Dinghy.
8"? I don't think Devlin intended it to be built quite that small. Did you name her *Lilliputt*? If you had built a model first, how big would that have been? :lol:

Some typos are endlessly entertaining....

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:02 am
by TomW
Robbie, the numbers for a console which you are sort of describing are totally different than for a tiller as described by CG definition. So yes you could definately come up with something higher. Some of Jacques plans state tiller and console HP. Ther is usually a 15-20 HP difference. Also remember Jacque keeps his numbers moderate and safe and usually does not post the Max. CG number that you can calculate.

Maybe we can get also get Shine to carry some 6 or 9 oz biax cloth.

Tom

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:38 am
by Fred in Wisc
We just discussed that on another thread. The consensus was that 6oz biax is super hard to fair and that it probably would not save a lot of weight over 12oz.

that said, gotta agree wholeheartedly with you guys. My first build I used all woven and it was pretty nasty to work with. The biax drapes so much better I'd prefer to use it for everything.

It's like the difference between a nice wool suit and a $69 polyester one.

Fred in Wisc

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:20 am
by tech_support
I do agree that woven is not as easy to get into corners as biax., but 6 and 9 oz Biax in wide cloth form is very difficult to maneuver without pulling it all apart. It also will make faring more difficult.

If you want to use 12 oz biax in place of woven cloth, its a fine idea - just be sure you know how much weight your adding and what effect that weight will have on your particular boat (big boats it will not matter much, small ones it could)

The real light cloth (4 oz, and 3.25 oz) can be a real pain to wet our as they are very fine weave; getting air out can be a pain.

I have used a lot of 4 oz in the last year or so in making surfboards. You always should measure and cut the glass before mixing any epoxy. Keep each layer on a cardboard roll. Roll just a little epoxy onto the surface and use it to hold the cloth in place while you maneuver it around with a spreader. When is all in place, wet it out completely.

In most of our boat designs, woven cloth is called for to provide abrasion resistance. For this reason, its OK to have many slits in the corners or around curves ( I cut them before wet out). If their needs to be more slits while wetting out, I use a sharp razor blade

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:51 am
by Cracker Larry
For this reason, its OK to have many slits in the corners or around curves ( I cut them before wet out).
That's a good thing :D

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:54 am
by Cracker Larry
On your GF-16, could it have handled a 30+ hp motor by the USCG calculations? (NO, I am not going there!!!??!!!) I was trying to figure mine and came up with a number that I was not expecting and the numbers that I used was 15.91' length 4.41' transom width, 20.5" transom and steered from the mid seat with stick steering (not tiller) on left and power/gear control on right. Could that number be higher than the one I stated above
Robbie, I have no idea about the calculations, but the boat certainly doesn't need a 30+ HP motor. Even I wouldn't go there. I did try a 40 on mine, it was WAY too much 8O

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, enough fussing, back to work :lol:

Sam and I sanded down the first coat of Quick Fair on the console, got it looking real good. Then we decided to give it another coat for good measure so we QF'd it again yesterday and let it dry overnight.

Today we started sanding it again, but the tired old (1 year) Rigid RO went to squawking, then smoke came out of it, a lot of smoke, then it died :cry:

So we made the 40 mile trip to Lowe's and bought another one, this time a Dewalt heavy duty. We'll see. So far I can't get more than 1 boat per sander :doh:

Came home and finished sanding the second fairing, looks even better. I should do it once more, but Sam says it's good. So we cleaned it off and gave it a fill coat of resin.

Image

Now it looks great. Smooth as a babies @ss, except for a couple of small spots which I pointed out to Sam.

Image

It's a lot smoother than the picture would lead you to believe. Tomorrow we're tinting the insides and when that's done we're going to glass it down to the sole. Which will then require some more fairing :help:

T-Storms moving in now, had to take a break.

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:12 pm
by Spokaloo
Looks nice!

I have that same DeWalt ROS. Its pretty indestructible. Took me 2 boats to wear out the little oscillator ring (which still works when there is pressure, but it spins REALLY fast when held in the air)

You will be happy with it.

E

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:43 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Thanks for giving me the answer that I was looking for. I knew that you had tried a 30+ on the GF and it was toooooo much. Also thanks for letting me hijack the thread for the question, I sometimes don't get quick answers on my thread and I needed to know if I was not doing my math correctly. Kudos to TomW for the assist also. I know that J designs his boats for less than what most others need as far as hp to weight.
The console looks great and Sam is still giving you that look 8O Careful

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:11 am
by TomW
Console looks nice Larry. Sure is nice to have a second set of eyes. :D

Tom

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Time for an update. We left off with the console fairing finished and some fresh woven cloth on the sole and sides.

The console we gave a couple of coats of tinted epoxy on all the inside areas.


We sanded down all that woven and ground out some bubbles and got it ready for the console installation and fairing compound. And re-cut all the drain holes with a roto-zip bit in a drill.

Also sanded the rear seats and motorwell and then gave it a generous coat of fairing, using blended filler and epoxy, with slow hardener. Warm out.

Image

And we got the console permanently glassed down. Glued, filleted inside and out, 2 layers biax tape on the outside. One on the inside to follow. Maybe in a little while :doh:

Image

I feel like this is another milestone.

Image

I cut the motorwell drain hole in the center. It's drilled 1 1/2" for a 1 1/4' drain. Sam wasn't pleased with the location at all. I agreed, plugged it with thickened epoxy, and drilled 2 more, one on each side. This is better. 8)

Image

Only the casting deck and gunwales left to build :D Not as much sanding as there has been :D

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:58 pm
by StngStr
Console looks huge!

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:20 pm
by TomW
Larry nice work. Looks really good with the console finally in place. I agree with you on the motorwell holes 2 are always better than one.

Have a good one.

I two have been making progress. One day I'll get some pictures in here. Right now all the old damage is removed and I'm finally ready to start putting her back together. Only you know mother nature, it's supposed to the 40's-50's and lo 30's after the weekend. Hopefully I'll be fairing by then.

Tom

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:52 pm
by cedarock
Looks good Larry...like the console. You and Sam are too organized! You have the console all planned out for each instrument. I would have mounted the console and then thought where oh where will I put this or that. I agree with you and Sam, the motorwell will be better with two drains.

I am also getting ready to break in a new dewalt ros.

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:01 pm
by davidtx
I agree - installing the console is a big milestone! Its looking really good - can't wait to get mine in.

-david

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:02 pm
by chicagoross
This is one serious OD, Larry! Can't wait to see it painted up...Leaning post next?

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:14 pm
by jayb01
I would agree with Sam's consternation over the motorwell drain(s). It looks like a single center drain would open right into the motor mount.

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:57 am
by Cracker Larry
I would agree with Sam's consternation over the motorwell drain(s). It looks like a single center drain would open right into the motor mount.
That's exactly what he said :roll: And it will only drain half as much water. And a boat is never level, it is always leaning to one side or another :lol:

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:40 am
by tech_support
great work Larry. Thank you for sharing the pictures in detail.
And we got the console permanently glassed down. Glued, filleted inside and out, 2 layers biax tape on the outside. One on the inside to follow.
You can probably mount a lifting eye to the console now - pick the boat up with it :)

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:34 pm
by cape man
She's lookin sharp! That is going to be a VERY serious looking boat when all rigged, with lots of space for two behind the console.

Like the drain hole placements for all the reasons stated. That's a smart dog you have.

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone!
That's a smart dog you have
Don't tell him that, he's smug enough :lol:

He had me sanding again yesterday, I sand, he watches closely and critiques. We got the rear seats and motorwell sanded down again, after the first coat of fairing compound (blended filler). Today we will probably smear on one coat of Quick Fair. This area is about ready for primer

Image
You can probably mount a lifting eye to the console now - pick the boat up with it
Seems so to me also, Joel :lol: Don't want it ever coming loose though. We got all the insiides glassed to the sole now. It's about as strong as the transom :!:

Image

Later today I'll give the sole a coat of tinted epoxy and this will be about finished also.

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Bad weather today. Really windy, blowing oak flowers everywhere, then blowing rain, so we didn't mix any sticky stuff :roll:

We did sand down the console taping, and the sole and got it ready for fairing compound. Really tired of sanding :|

And we drilled the holes for the fuel compartment vents. Just like the rules require. 2 holes, intake and exhaust. One located in the lower 1/3 of the compartment, one in the upper 1/3. Not particularly visually appealing, but function must sometimes take precedence over form. It's either that or duct them through the anchor locker and up to the gunwales.

The holes will be covered by the round SS louvered vents, you can see one in the photo...

Image

And then we decided to quit procrastinating over the gunwales and start doing something, even if it's wrong. I'm not sure if the frames will end up exactly like this, may make more modifications tomorrow, but this is where we're at so far. The 2X4s will hold them in position for glueing.

Image

I still can't quite get it right in my head what I want to do here. I'll keep fiddling with scrap until I can see it in my mind.

Supposed to get cold again. Down to freezing tomorrow night. We're not supposed to be this cold this time of year :help: Crazy weather, global warming :doh:

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:04 pm
by cedarock
Like the vents Larry! They will fit in nicely. As for the gunwall....I am sure between you and Sam, you will have it all figured out and others will learn from the procedure. :wink:

I am itching to plant some tomato plants but with all of this global warming, I will probably have to wait until mid May. There is a chance of frost here tomorrow night as well!

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:16 pm
by jbo_c
I just brought my tomatoes in off the back porch. I planted my early ones in a container just in case - smart me. I already replanted my basil once. I'll have to cover them tomorrow night.

Jbo

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:34 am
by ks8
... and I threw out an old pair of hockey skates when I moved south. :?

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:42 am
by TomW
The lousy weather went through here last night so this afternoon turned out to be nice. Got the new sides tack on; the Mirror. But that it is it till Wednesday. Cold, freeze warnings and up to an 1" of snow coming my way, Hi's in the 40's. Some heat wave.

I don't know what to say about your gunwales. I'm a little leary of that design as there is nothing sitting on the sole to provide any support for downward pressure. It would all be taken by the hull. As I recall the ones in the instructions had a little base. On the other hand yours do not provide any toe stubbing projections like all the other boats have. For reference sake the bottom of the peices you have cut out on the C17, OB17, and C19 are 3" at the bottom and go up to the 7-9" at the top depending on the boat. Don't know if this will help you.

Tom

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:58 am
by chicagoross
Frame E on my HMD plans goes to a point right at the top of the berth (to save space probably) similar to the upper frames above going to a point at the sole. And frame F only goes halfway to the berth top. So there is some Bateau precedence for this type of deck framing. I overbuild too and might have given the frames an inch or two to sit on the sole, but I'm pretty sure Larry's boat will never be accused of being underbuilt. :D

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:15 am
by Oceola
[quote="TomW"]

I don't know what to say about your gunwales. I'm a little leary of that design as there is nothing sitting on the sole to provide any support for downward pressure. It would all be taken by the hull. [/quote]

I'm no engineer but I see no problem at all with the frame setup the way Larry has them, although I might add a few more. I don't think that an inch or two of frame resting on the sole would matter one way or another. As a matter of fact, if it was my ship, and I was the captain, I'd stop the lower point of the frames a couple of inches above the sole for ease of finishing and to keep crud from building up in those little corners.

Lets say for instance you have an 8" wide gunwal. Now think of the point all along the boat where the gunwal meets the sheer line as a pivot point. If you are standing on the inside edge of the gunwal the pressure wants to swing down and in towards the hull in an arch. (Vector forces?) Remember those frames will be taped full length to the hull. That's what will carry the weight. I have no idea how to calculate the sheer forces over the length of the hull/gunwal frame taped joint but, I'll guess there is more than enough strength there. The wood fails before the taped joint fails, right? And I doubt the hull will flex what with the double thickness at the style line overlap, and the sole and rub rails adding both shape and stiffness.
Just my $.02 worth but maybe we should ask Sam.

Frank

P.S. You guys take lots of pictures at the Fl. builders meet, and have a good time, O.K.?

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:03 am
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall for the input. That is exactly what we've been pondering.

I wanted to avoid it resting on the sole, it would be a terrible toe stubber and a dirt catcher. Also a space robber. Sam and I came to the same conclusion as Frank, that the vector forces would carry the weight to the sides and not to the hull. And that the glue and tape are real strong in sheer. The decks will only be 6" wide, with 1" of that supported by the rubrail.

I think I'm going to shorten them another inch, and maybe add another set of frames :doh: But still open to suggestions.

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:06 am
by ks8
For the sake of people just browsing, I think Tom was referring to this...

http://bateau2.com/content/view/80/28/

... but this hull has been built strong, the clear path for toes is nice at the floor, and I'm not sure what sort of loads are expected on those topside panels at the floor seam. This is not a Coast Guard Cutter or RN Lifeboat, but... it is a good point. Maybe Sam is making a call to Jacques as I type (well.. monday... :lol:), just to be sure all is fine with the clear floor intentions, and that the hard spot at the lower point of those braces will never practically experience stresses there that would be worrisome with this design. Transom knees can sometimes get small cracks where they meet the sheer. I think a GV10 had that happen here, until those seams were redone with a proper glass laminate strengthening them instead of only a fillet. What says Sam and J?

Rod holders in the gun'ls? Every option I picture is gonna look purty. :)

Oopps... beat me to it by 3 minutes! :lol:

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:10 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah I had read that, and pictured me losing my grand toenail on the things.

Sam don't know anymore about it than I do. Maybe we should wait for Jacques opinion before I glue them down :idea:

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:20 am
by cape man
You are now at one of the places that makes me pounder the most on the designs. You guys can call me crazy (been done before! :lol: ), but here's my thoughts.

If you want to mount rods along the sides, having the full length supports going down to the sole makes sense, but if you don't have a functional need for the supports I,m with Frank - seems too much for the purpose, especially on a boat that has an optional gunwale. Anything that goes to the deck takes up space when walking, and makes a place for stuff to get caught when washing.

To me gunwales serve two main functions - stiffening up the sides of the boat, and providing a flat surface at the top to mount hardware or step on getting in and out. Building triangular supports and taping just to the top panels of the sides should provide the needed strength for both. Being faired, taped and epoxied the entire length may not require any supports :doh:? Any downward force on the inside will also be distributed along the length of the gunwales, and I can't imagine breaking a well taped edge like that by stepping on it. If you want a walk-around gunwale this all might be different.

In my mind the supports as designed seem more like left overs from a boat that has ribs that are needed to stiffen the sides (or rod holders). My 0.02 on a Sunday morning.

P.S. I work with tropical fish. Have been at it for 34 years. We have never had to wait this long for the ponds to stay above 70 degrees. It's supposed to hit the upper 40's tomorow night. Good news is the oak blooms seem to be almost over here.

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:22 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Cape Man. That reinforces my thoughts, if not my gunwales.

I won't use the space for rod holders, but will use it for gaff and scrub brush holders. Don't need a lot of width for that.

I wish those oak blooms would get gone here. We had a month of pine, now it's the oaks. Living in the middle of the woods doesn't help, but it's beats the city :D

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:56 am
by cape man
Went back through all the OD 18 pics I could find and see lots of gunnels with small supports, or supports that taper with no horizontal attachment at deck. Check out Family man's. A combination of both, and some of the prettiest gunwales I've seen. Plenty of time before I have to decide :lol: , but glad to help reinforce your thoughts.

Got the needed ply for the stringers and may try and cut them out today. My problem is I leave tomorow for Kansas City, and then Thursday for Grand Cayman, and then have two days home before CR. Somehow I don't think my boat is getting started before then.

Have an outdoor pool with beautiful live oaks in the yard... Most people don't have a clue how much a live oak drops in the spring. First the leaves, then the pollen, then the blooms. Bet I clear 200 lbs of oak stuff off the deck and out of the pool each spring. Can't cut them, but can complain to anyone who will listen.

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for your feedback :D

I've looked at all those pictures I could find also, and Familymans is one of the nicest looking to me. Of course most of them are pretty nice :)

I haven't glued anything yet. Think I'll wait to see what Jacques says tomorrow. Been working on the bow deck some today.

KC and then Grand Cayman 8O Rough life :lol:

I know about a pool and the tree fallings. Been so windy that the deck takes care of itself. Spring and fall will keep you busy. Should be a good year for acorns anyway.

I'm hoping to see a few ODs at Crystal River. It's less than 2 weeks, so maybe I'll just piddle with other stuff. I need a sheet of plywood to complete them anyway, and hoping Joels going to bring me some 8)

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:03 pm
by kjackson
CL-- I don't know what, if anything, you plan on mounting on your gunnel decks...but you got me thinking about what I will do when I get that far (haven't really decided on the boat yet, so it will be a while).

I'm thinking that if you're going to have downriggers (you probably won't, but I will), step pads and the like, then you might want to put supports on both sides of those items just for the extra support. Cleats might only require (if that is really the word) one, but for something heavy or where someone will step over and over again, then I think a gusset or whatever the supports are called on both sides would be a good thing.

Keith

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:34 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Keith, good point. I was thinking of small gussetts and backing pads also. I probably will have a downrigger. An extra gussett at the step pads would probably be wise.

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:02 am
by ks8
excellent on the gusset ok from J! Sam told you so...

It looks like you've got enough depth to put in some hinged drop down minilockers if you wanted. Enjoy the taping... (better than more sanding) :)

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
I thought it would be OK, but better to be certain.
It looks like you've got enough depth to put in some hinged drop down minilockers
Explain that please :? I hadn't thought about a mini-bar.
Enjoy the taping... (better than more sanding)
One leads to the other :lol: But I can see the end of it now.[/quote]

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Do most people tape the gunwales to the rub rails :?:

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:54 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Don't know about others but I for one didn't. There was a ton of surface area for glueing and my rubrails were already painted.

Image

The thin strip and mini-cleats were only temporary to give me something to trace the gunwale shapes. It was replaced with a 2"x2" ripped in half at a 45° and kerfed to bend easily. Then 2 layers of 3" wide x ¼" Meranti were clamped to that to form the coaming.

Image

I still owe that coaming a couple of coats of varnish :oops: . It's just about the only brightwork in my boat.

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the details, Lucky. That is very helpful. I was already pondering how to mark that inside edge 8)

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:15 pm
by Lucky_Louis
I could have just scribed a line parallel to the outside edge as well but I shaved between 1 and two inches off Jacques' designed width for the gunwale. I wanted the maximum clearance to get by the console. The gunwale is really stiff, there's no place I wouldn't step. The shape and relationship of the parts make a super strong and stiff component.

Image

My frames went down to the sole only because that's what the plans called for. The design actually showed the sub sole frame and the 'ribs' as one piece. You're quite right when you say those little buggers catch every piece of crud and are a bear to clean. I may actually cut mine off an inch or two above the sole when the time comes to repaint.

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:03 pm
by stickystuff
I have the same problems here. Only real problem is that it's the neighbors trees that are filling up my pool with crapola. He said I could cut them down. He hates pine trees. How bout his oaks.? Hmmm. :doh:

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:51 am
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:
It looks like you've got enough depth to put in some hinged drop down minilockers
Explain that please :?
Maybe this will help?

The locker/drawer pivots out to access, back in to get it out of the way. Uses some space under the gun'l. Lures, weights, bottle openers (remember those?), medical kit, 9mm, Bat Shark Repellent, or whatever might seem appropriate. Simple pivot bolt on each side. Fits in between two supports. Flush handle. Good locking mech so it doesn't flop open in a chop. Or it could open to level, to hold a tray of tackle... whatever. Maybe some sort of snug soft runner material that it sits against in the support space, to minimize any rattling while underway. Just seems a nice fitting bit of storage right in under the coaming... easily removed if it doesn't work out, leaving only two pivot bolt holes in the supports... :)

Image

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:41 am
by Cracker Larry
Very interesting idea :idea: I haven't seen that done before. Thanks, more to ponder over :D

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:27 am
by ks8
Ponder away! See what Sam thinks...

It is certainly an idea that, like anything, can be overdone. I like some open space under the gun'l, giving some liberty of... feet and shins and such... with a fish on the line or being landed. But a couple of these in just the right spot, can be very handy. Lots of room to get fancy with spring loaded latches, catches, openers (to hold it open under tension when unlatched), etc, or just keep it this simple. And they could always be very simply added or removed at any time, in a minute or so.

If you put two close supports anywhere, such as to add strength for an outrigger, one of these could go there, maybe even hold some spare hardware for the outrigger? ponder ponder .......

Enjoy! :)

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:39 am
by Cracker Larry
I'll never get this boat finished :roll:

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:09 am
by ks8
:lol:

It's one of the reasons I tried to plan only the attachment points for stuff I'd like to do later. All the removeable mods will be next season or so, but I won't have to alter the main hull or refinish to add them (I hope! :lol: ) later. But I did have to sketch out the modules so I could plan good generic attachment points for all the possible options.

You are so close to finished already, short of the fairing and painting! What've you got? gun'l supports, gun'l, and a few holes and backing plates? You still might launch before me... but that isn't saying much... :lol:

When I launch, what will not be done... seat top lockers, battery boxes, stern seat/storage, floor grates, seat top/deck extensions, electrical, and on and on, but I'm going sailing and fishing anyway. Base hull will be done, painted, functional. 8)

What's that? Isn't that Sam trying to drag you away from the keyboard? :lol:

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:14 am
by Cracker Larry
What's that? Isn't that Sam trying to drag you away from the keyboard?
Cold, windy, raining today. Wish spring would get here! Supposed to clear this afternoon, then windy and colder. I'm sick of being cold :?

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:21 am
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:I'm sick of being cold :?
Yes, it is an inconvenient truth... :P

I still wonder if warmer temps (?!) will encourage global expansion by plate growth, and actually give us more ocean and coastline, with a bit of rumbling and tsunamis first. :roll:

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:26 am
by Cracker Larry
That took a minute to sink in. I'm slow this morning. :lol:

Know we're not supposed to talk politics but Al Gore is an idiot.

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:31 am
by TomW
kd a good one :lol: and I agree It snowed twice yesterday afternoon a couple of times briefly.

Tom

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:36 am
by ks8
Great weather for sanding! Have at it! :lol:

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
The weather improved and Sam and I have been hard at building.

We got those frames for the gunwales glued in place. Jacques had said they didn't need to extend to the sole, so I shortend them 2" to allow plenty of toe and scrub brush clearance.

The 2X4s across the sheer worked perfect to position them. I clamped a framing square to each one, resting on the sole, to keep the frames perpendicular, and weighted the square down with a block...

Image

We removed the hangars, now we need to cut some strips of 1/4 ply to fill in the top sections. There is a gap where the side panels overlap. Then fillet and tape.

Image

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
While waiting on that, we worked on the bow deck. Got it fitted to perfection and all the hatch cut outs made...sorry the light is harsh..

Image

And we got all 12 of those aggravating clamps glued along the sides to support the deck. I've been postponing this job for a month, but it wasn't too bad, thanks to hot glue :wink:

Image

Last but not least, we made the stiffeners and backing plates for the deck bottom, glued them in and gave everything 2 coats of epoxy. There is an area about 32" square where the fuel tank is that we could not frame, so we made stiffeners for the 3/8 decking from 3/4 ply.

Image

Tomorrow we'll glass it in :D

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:13 pm
by chicagoross
Now that the for'd deck is in you can fit more upper frames for the fr'd gunnels! How are you planning on transitioning the gunnels aft, where you have the transom storage boxes?

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:15 pm
by gk108
The gunwale frames look better to me. I think once they are tied in to the area of the side panel overlaps, they get all the support they need.

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:43 pm
by TomW
Nice Larry. That should do it for you. I'll have to check into that later on.

Tom

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:45 pm
by steve292
Nice work....how do you keep it so clean?
My garage looks like a lunatic has been running around in it, with epoxy finger prints everywhere :oops:
Thanks for the advice in my thread BTW.
Steve

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:40 pm
by cedarock
Hot glue! :doh: That is the way to get them rascals to stick to the hull panels. I tried everything on the fs12...even went to wallyworld and bought some spring loaded curtain rods. I would check them every 15 minutes to find that they slipped down 1/2" or so!

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:51 pm
by gk108
cedarock wrote:...even went to wallyworld and bought some spring loaded curtain rods.
:idea:
Don't worry, that's a great idea for holding something in place. Just need to find the right application for them. :D

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:45 pm
by ks8
Cedarock,

Curtain rods would work fine, if, you had a couple dowels holding the cleats in place vertically. Drill through the cleat, off the boat first, then tape it in position with masking tape, and then drill into the hull so the hole is only about 1/16 inch deep in the hull. I mark my drill bit with masking tape so I don't drill too deep. That 1/16" would be deep enough for a dowel or two to hold it in position, with the tension from the curtain rods. Once those shallow holes are drilled, remove, coat with epoxy and glue, put in place and stick in the dowels and set your curtain rods. It would work I'm thinking, with no sliding. I did something like that in several places. The dowels made all the difference. :)

Looking good CL! Those final major pieces have a dramatic effect of the look of completion. Looking forward to those gun'ls fitted into place. Has Sam given you any guidance yet on the final gun'l design? And of course, some of those final style decisions sometimes need a woman's touch... so has Delilah roamed by with some input? :)

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:08 am
by Cracker Larry
How are you planning on transitioning the gunnels aft, where you have the transom storage boxes?
Good question, Ross. As you astutely see, they will have to end up being 4" wide at the stern, so the lockers can open. Transitions are important to the overall look and require much pondering and beer, which obviously I haven't had enough of yet. I am favoring an offset transition such as Familyman did his...

Image

But we're also considering a continuos taper. I'm just going to have to get some plywood laid out and look at it.

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:27 am
by TomW
Larry, I have pondered that on the C17 and have kept coming back to the offset like Familyman's. I think it looks sharpest.

My .02. Probably .00 in a couple a days the way the economy is going.

Tom

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:38 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom, GK, Steve.. :D
how do you keep it so clean?
It really aggravates Sam and Lila when they get glued to the floor.

I'm sort of anal about clutter in shops, and boats. It's inefficient and dangerous (I'm clumsy) and I just can't think good with crap strewn everywhere. A mental deffect :doh:

My shop and work area is small and I've got a lot of stuff crammed in there, so it has to be organized or I'd never find anything until I tripped over it. We try to clean up from one task before starting the next, or it just gets out of hand.
Hot glue! That is the way to get them rascals to stick to the hull panels.
That's it. I've also tried all manner of devices, and hot glue is the best I've found for cleats that you can't clamp. Screws would be easy, but I've got the outside ready to paint and have no intentions of shooting a screw thru the sides :!:

These cleats I pre coat with epoxy and let them cure. Once dry we put a strip of masking tape across the bottom edge. This will get stuck to the hull and catch the drippings, forming a fillet at the bottom of the cleat. Now spread the glue over the cleat leaving just a 1/4" strip on each end dry.
Run a bead of hot glue down the dry strip on each end. Press cleat to hull and hold for 10 seconds. Press masking tape to hull so glue won't run out everywhere. Make a quick fillet with finger around top and sides. Done 8)

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:22 am
by Lucky_Louis
The hot glue was a great idea Larry. Way easier than what I did. I marked where the cleats lived, then removed them from the boat and screwed them to the deck (or sole). Peanut buttered inside my marks and dropped the deck (or sole) in place. Waited for cure then pulled the screws, lifted the deck (or sole) and glued it down.

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Lucky, I've considered a lot of options, but that wasn't one of them :doh: :lol:

Interesting all the different solutions to the same problems we come up with :) This hobby does make you think...ahead.

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:17 pm
by colonialc19
The hot glue trick is slick 8) I like it.
The part about the tape is something I'd never had thought of at least not until I had glue drippin' everywhere 8O

Keep posting Cracker, I still have lots to learn 8)

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam got me moving again and we made a good day of it. :D

First we decided to go ahead and run the wires to the bow lights and the fuel tank, before we glued the deck down. Just in case we had troubles. Both bow lights went easy, ran a fish tape down the tube, tape on the wires and a pull string, and pull them back. But the fuel tank chase was another issue. We couldn't get anything all the way through it from either direction. Tried a metal fish tape, nylon fish tape, electric fence wire, tried running from both directions and hooking one with another, no luck at all. Held our mouths just right, cussed it proper, everything, no help :help:

Finally did what we should have done to start with, hooked up the shop vac, made a hose adapter with a vinegar jug, tied a plastic bag to a string and sucked it through there in about 30 seconds. After we had worked 2 hours and bled all over the boat. Then we taped the string to the wire and pulled it right through :D :D Was starting to wonder if we were going to have a fuel guage.

Image

All the wiring finally in place, we prepped the area for the deck install, made a last check for tools and treasures, and taped in some paper to protect the lockers from drips.

Image

Warm today, mid 80s like it's supposed to be, so we worked fast making and spreading enough glue to cover all the cleats and frames. Was hoping to do this earlier when it was cool, but that dang wire wasted a few hours.

But we got it all spread without it starting to cure, and got the deck in place and weighted down. One spot was a little bendy, so we had to encourage it to behave.

Well, I'd show you a picture, but the web gods tells me that I have exceeded my file quota and can't upload any more pictures. I guess I'll have to start deleting :?:

Anyway, we got the deck glued on. Sam says it's cocktail hour now :D

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Keep posting Cracker, I still have lots to learn
They've cut off my photos :!: :help:

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:09 pm
by TomW
The picture god is cruel! :cry: As I remember Wobbly Legs had the same problem. There are a couple of free sites you can use and then post from them to here. I use Snapfish it is run by HP they make there money on the prints.

Tom

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:34 pm
by cape man
Say it isn't so! Please, please, please let him post pictures! Change the rules.

Nice cleats. I have a hot glue gun.

P.S. Leaving at 5 am for fishing. Grand Cayman is a sweet place if you've never been.

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
The picture god is cruel!
Only misguided I hope.

I ain't using no Snapfish. They don't do boat building :doh: Want to watch boatbuilding, watch it here. This is a boatbuilding site. Is there a limit to boatbuilding :?: I don't blog either. The picture Gods could share Tom's bandwidth with mine. He doesn't post pictures anyway :lol:

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Grand Cayman is a sweet place if you've never been
It sure is :D

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:31 am
by TomW
Oh but Larry I will be! :D

Tom

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:37 am
by chicagoross
:help: Oh powers-that-be, let the pictures come forth! Waiting to see the gun'ls!

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:38 am
by PastorBob
The picture Gods could share Tom's bandwidth with mine. He doesn't post pictures anyway
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Shine.... I would suspect Larry is one of your best adverts... How many of us peeled through his pages over and over before deciding to build 8O

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:58 am
by Deltaskipper
This thread has been, and is, one of the best illustrated tutorials going. It should be preserved and published as an official tutorial.
8)

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:59 am
by Cracker Larry
The part about the tape is something I'd never had thought of at least not until I had glue drippin' everywhere


I need to make a correction. I said masking tape, but I actually use duct tape. Epoxy saturates and bonds with paper tape making it hard to remove. The plastic works a lot better :wink:

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:03 am
by Cracker Larry
It should be preserved and published as an official tutorial.
Thanks. I'm making a CD that will be available when I'm finished.

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:30 pm
by ks8
Just give Jacques or Shine a call for the disk file quota. On a build being documented like this one, all the pictures are well worth the bandwidth. I don't think there will be any problem at all. I think my quota has been bumped four or five times! Me and my repetitions and all... you know, when I say the same thing... but in a different way repeating myself... over and over again... pictures and all... and then saying it again... with more pictures... of the same thing... :lol:

They may not check your thread every day, and so may not have seen the quota issue. No worries... call 'em monday. :)

If all your pictures showed everything except the boat, like shop workers...

Image

or how any surface can be made to plane with enough power...

Image

...then it might be more difficult to get the quota bumped. But you've been all boat... and Sam! :)

Keep taking the pictures to have them ready. We don't want to miss anything! :)

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: :lol: Yeah, I'm sure it will work out. No worries, mon 8)

Got those 4 frames for the gunwales filleted and taped today. Not much else done though.

I went through all my photos and deleted about 20 or 30 that were redundant or irrelevant, so we've got some space freed up :D

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:53 pm
by cedarock
I went through all my photos and deleted about 20 or 30 that were redundant or irrelevant, so we've got some space freed up
That's great! You have to show the ending to this masterpiece.

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:46 pm
by Deltaskipper
Cracker Larry wrote:
It should be preserved and published as an official tutorial.
Thanks. I'm making a CD that will be available when I'm finished.
I want to sign up for a copy of the CD as soon as it's available.
8)

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:55 pm
by Dougster
Oh yeah, it's a gotta have CD. WB mag this month reviews a guy's "shop manuel" and pleasant read book. He's a pro writer but your dialog is spot on so there's a book in it. I'll be your editor :) With input from Sam and your other/better half, it'll cook. I mean, hell, if I can build a boat you can damn sure write a book.

Pie in the sky Dougster

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:09 pm
by chicagoross
If we buy the book will we finally get the pirate story? :)

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:15 pm
by cedarock
Hey, this is turning out to be a great cliff hanger! :lol: Ever thought of movie production Larry? Sam is photogenic enough for it!

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
If we buy the book will we finally get the pirate story?
Which one? Are you coming to Crystal River :?: My attorney advised me not to put anything in print :wink:

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:08 pm
by cape man
Good attorney!

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:46 pm
by chicagoross
Man, I wish I could! I know there will be some great story-telling with the edited versions you see here on the board. It's a long haul from Guam, though. Especially in a displacement hull :D

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:32 am
by Betowess
Looking terrific - no surprise there,, and of course I'm imagining how she'll look with the deck glued on. I would love to be on the short list of the CDs first offering, when you put it to market.

I thought it was kind of interesting looking at how little draft Family Man's empty OD18 had in the stern of that last picture you posted, Cracker. Looks like maybe a couple of inches, when empty. Says something for stitch and glue freeboard.!

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, back to getting a boat built. We've had a week of great weather, but unfortunately we've also had some family issues to deal with and haven't had a lot of time for building. Next week is looking better.

Sam's real glad I'm back home and we're building again. We managed to fit in a little work during the week. First we got the casting deck glued in place, filleted and taped. I was a little concerned about 3/8 not being stiff enough and we added some stiffeners to the bottom. Don't know if we needed them or not, but it is rock solid :D

We also continued work on the gunwale frames, finishing up the 2 center sets, filleted, taped and cleats glued on. Then we built all the other frames. I'm installing 5 sets and I swear I've had to cut out 30 of them to achieve 10 that were correctly cut. :oops: These gave me a bigger problem than I would have thought. Might have something to do with beer?

After trials and errors we got them all figured out. I cut all these to allow for the overlapped side panels, which keeps us from having to use a filler piece. Here is what they look like dry fit....

Image

Once cut, we started installing them. Again we used 2X4s to hang them from the sheer and framing squares to align them plumb. Here is the forward 2 sets being glued in...

Image

Can you tell Capt. Sam is hard at work?

We filleted them at the same time as glueing. The hangars keep them sturdy while I make the fillets...

Image

Finished up the forward frames and started the last set aft....

Image

In this shot you can really tell how the framing squares keep the frames in alignment...

Image

This frame is an intermediate, put there to accomodate foot traffic and maybe one of KS's storage boxes 8)


That's about it for the week. I'll start this afternoon with tape and cleats to finish these up. Next week looks good for making progress. We hope to have some side decks on her by the end of the week :D And we'll get the casting deck covered in biax, and the fuel lines routed to the gunwales. At least that's the plan... :lol:

92F degrees right now! Looks like summer has finally showed up :D

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:48 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Nice to see you are back at work on your boat. Looking good. :!: I can't wait to see the finished product. Maybe at next years boat builders meet. :wink:

Sandi, Harrison and I had a great time in Crystal River. We were pretty much exhausted when we got home. I am sure you were as well. It's a good thing we decided to wait for another day to do the offshore trip as we went over to Aripeka yesterday and discovered I forgot to bring the 2009 boat sticker over from Dade City and put it on. :roll:

Larry, continued good luck on your build. :D

Richard

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:51 pm
by stickystuff
Larry, Don't remember the name of the man with you when we ran along side of you going back into plantation. He took pics. of my boat running along side of you. Do you know if he is going to post them? Curious to see how my hull runs. Can't see this when I am driveing. ???

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:58 pm
by cedarock
Sam, Good to see you and Larry back at it! :lol: Looks great!

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Richard, I'll be at the next meet with this boat, but let's go fishing before then :!:


Ken, that's Tom W, he took a few pictures and so did I. Stand by, let me find them...

CR, Sam says thank you :lol:

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm sorry Ken :oops: I didn't get any pictures of your boat on a plane, I guess because I was planing along side of you. I have several shots at idle. Tom should have some with you planing..

I did get this pic of you and your wife that I thought was especially good.... :D

Image

If you would like the high res version of this and the others I have, email me Lteuton at a o l dot com and I'll send them to you full size.

I'm still bandwith challenged on my gallery.

Edit: I found one that Tom posted. He might have more...

Image

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:33 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks great, Larry. Nice pics of the hanging frames and good tips on alignment.

It's summer here, as well. I spent the entire day yesterday on the boat. Didn't run home until after 11:00.

Gotta' love summer, and don't blame the beer!!

Huck

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Huck! How's your motor doing? Did you get it fixed?

If it ain't the beer, it must be the carpenter :doh:

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:03 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Motor is great! There was a fastener that had vibrated out and held a reed plate open :? . Compression is 148-150 on all 3. I have loctited everything together (the blue, of course)! Totally uneventful since then. Too bad I couldn't see that at the meet. Only too about 30 minutes to fix.
Maybe I needed more beer!

Huck

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:32 pm
by TomW
Larry great explanation of the alignment. I think the gunwale will look great on the OD and it will give you what you want. Hope everything went okay last week and you got everything taken care of.

Tom

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:58 pm
by mecreature
Good tips Larry.. I would have been scratching my head without the pics..

Howdeedo Sam...

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:06 pm
by stickystuff
Good lookin boat if I say so myself. SELF!

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam and I have managed to stay on schedule so far this week :D

We got all of those gunwale frames glued, filleted, taped and cleated.

Image

And we got the casting deck glassed in forever with 12 oz. biax. This is sure nicer than working with 9 oz. woven cloth. No bubbles in this :D

Image

Sam is hard at work again :lol: The fur coat slows him down in the heat.

We've had to make some adjustments working with the epoxy at 90 degrees, re-learn the dawdle time so to speak. Pot life is real short, even with slow hardener. Got to get it out of the cup and spread out fast.

It does come to our attention that all these frame cleats will need to be beveled on 2 sides, top and inside, so the decks and coamings will sit fair. Something to ponder tomorrow 8)

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:35 pm
by TomW
Larry nice work. Suggestion on the coaming/deck cleats, make a pattern at the angle you want and since each will be slightly different, since the sides are, use your yellow protractor to line it up as you go along. Should get you a nice even deck. I hope :?:

Tom

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:59 am
by chicagoross
Larry, I just beveled the cleats by eyeball with a flapper disc on the grinder, on mine they only needed a little , no more than 1/8" on one side, to match the curve of the sheer.

I'm laughing at the adjustments needed for working at 90 degrees - that's morning here. My whole boat has been built 3 oz of epoxy at a time, except when I'm glassing large areas I can go 6 oz. Marinepoxy slow. It will be hot and thick by the time I can mix in woodflour and spread the 3 oz of epoxy. The one gallon of medium hardener that Joel sent me was burning my hand before I could stir 3 or 4 tablespoons of woodflour in, pretty much was a waste.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:56 pm
by Daddy
Chicago ross, I have a gallon of fast that you can have for free if you will pay the postage :lol: I had no idea how fast the medium was when I put in my first order.
Cracker Larry, did you glass in the supports for your gunnels or just glue them in?
Daddy

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:55 am
by Cracker Larry
Glassed in. 12 oz. biax tape both sides.

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:26 pm
by Daddy
Larry, I looked again and could actually see the tape!!

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Here Daddy, you won't have to looks so hard at this one :wink:

Image

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam and I have been slowly making progress. Spending more time pondering than actually getting much done. These gunwales have required a lot of beer, since they are not on the plans, and we're just figuring as we go.

We started by building and fitting a forward bulkhead. This will be a water tight storage and flotation chamber, and give access to wiring. The frame was tricky as it had to fit around the rear sections of the bow light plates. Poor planning on my part somewhere along the way. The gunwales and coaming will terminate at the bulkhead.

As usual, a couple of framing squares brace it up and hold it for glue.

Image

We got that glued, filleted and taped in place, and then started with the gunwale longitudinal cleating. Using the cleats as a batten to get a fair curve, we marked all the frames for the bevels.

Image

Sam supervises closely to make sure we don't screw this up :!: Then he decided we were going to do this like a real boat builder, and notch all the frames for the long cleat :help: This will make a much stronger structure than just glueing the cleats under the deck edges between the frames.

So after we got all our curves fair with the inside frame edges, we carefully marked and cut notches on the inside of each frame, like this..

Image

And then re-fit the long cleat into the notches. The results were very pleasing. I'm glad Sam talked me into this.

Image

We notched the forward bulkhead where the cleat will land. This will keep the decking flush and supported.

Image

I've got a 10" inspection hatch to fit that big round hole, but I'm still pondering cutting it to a rectangle and using a regular hatch.

That's all for now. Next we'll repeat this on the port side. And I still haven't quite got the width transition in the stern worked out to my satisfaction. Waiting on a revelation that I'm sure will come :lol:

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:24 pm
by Spokaloo
I sure like that method for building the gunnels....

E

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
E, at least it will make it easy to cut the deck to fit. Just clamp a piece of plywood on top and zip around it with a flush cutting bit in the router 8)

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:39 pm
by TomW
Ditto. Added strength also with the two glueing surfaces. Larry I think a square hatch would look better since all your other hatches are square, my .02.

Tom

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:47 pm
by gk108
Isn't it funny how progress is affected when you don't have something nicely drawn out for you? That will be one fine gunwale with that framing. Maybe you need to steam-bend something for the transition at the rear. :?:

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:33 pm
by colonialc19
Larry,
It might have taken a few beers and some talkin' to Sam, but I think its paid off, the gunwales are certain to be as tough as the rest of the boat.

What size batten/cleat are you using??

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:33 pm
by Daddy
Geez Larry, yer startin to bug me! First I wasnt gonna tape in my supports for the gunnels, then I see that you did and I like that so guess I better do it. Then I was gonna just glue the inner cleat/coaming to the inside and I see that you notched yours and that looks pretty good too. Geez! Im gonna stop lookin at your build if you keep this up. Just when I think I got it figured out you show me a better way. :)
Daddy

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:12 pm
by topwater
Cl what did you use to cut the notches ?
I can see that i am going to have to buy a
router and try to learn to use it.

" if only i could do all this with a plasma cutter i
would feel at home."

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:28 pm
by donk
I wish my pondering produced such nice results. Your boat is built like a tank! Nice job.

A flush cutting bit can save a lot of time. You now have your inner and outter edge, rout away.


don

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:52 pm
by chicagoross
Fairing the frames, cut oversize to fit and then trim down...sounds like conventional ply on frame! I find that type of build actually goes faster for a large boat, but as you pointed out, it does require a bit more time sitting in the thinking chair. Beautiful job as always, Larry!

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:06 pm
by cape man
Larry, sure hope you don't get mad when you see all these unique additions on my boat! Great job, and thanks again for the help with my questions earlier today.

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:52 pm
by DrBones
Larry...just as a tip from someone who put gunwhales on and has used the boat quite a bit now:

Make sure that where the individual gunwhale sections meet, you splice them together, like you did with the hull panels using biaxial tape. You can do this after they are installed, rather than installing one long section.

What happened to mine, as I didn't do this when I put them on my OD16, is that the flexing of the hull when it pounds on the seas, causes cracks to appear where the different sections meet. Not a major problem..just a blemish that could've been avoided!

...it's one of those repairs that I still need to get to (one in several..hehehe) ...but it hasn't stopped me from fishing yet..hehehe!

All the best! Love your boat...looking really great.

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, I'm thinking the rectangle may look better also :doh:

Maybe you need to steam-bend something for the transition at the rear.
No GK, I'm not that good of a builder, or just not that industrious. I've got the transitions worked out now, I'll show you tomorrow what we decided.
What size batten/cleat are you using??
1" X 1" yellow pine. I ripped them on the table saw from a larger board. Yeah, this boat is going to be tough for certain. You can't buy a boat like this at Bass Pro :lol:
Just when I think I got it figured out you show me a better way.
Daddy
:lol: You just don't know how much beer and pondering it took to figure this stuff out. And how much wood I've wasted. I told you I made 30 frames to get 10. My only real attribute is that I'm real stubborn.
Cl what did you use to cut the notches ?
Just a small hand saw. A backsaw actually.
I can see that i am going to have to buy a
router and try to learn to use it.
You don't have to have a router, but for some applictions it is the fastest and most accurate. I'm not a wizard with them, but the basics we can handle.
A flush cutting bit can save a lot of time. You now have your inner and outter edge, rout away.
Exactly. That will probably save more time than it took to recess the cleats.

Thank you CR :D
Larry, sure hope you don't get mad when you see all these unique additions on my boat!


Craig, no need to re-invent the wheel. My pleasure 8)

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Make sure that where the individual gunwhale sections meet, you splice them together, like you did with the hull panels using biaxial tape. You can do this after they are installed, rather than installing one long section.
Thanks Dr. Bones. I was planning on butt blocks underneath for splicing, where they will be hidden by the coaming. Do you think that would be best?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:36 pm
by Dougster
My only real attribute is that I'm real stubborn.
As I go grey, I find that the only real attribute. This new little section is such a gem. Big thanks on this, it's gonna help me big time on my gunnel time. BTW, you gotta a killer CD here and maybe, with a little push, a neat little builder's book goin' on.

Says good on you Dougster

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:11 pm
by davidtx
Your gunwale installation is similar to mine.
- You used larger cleats at the frames so that after you cut the notch you still have some cleat supporting the rail. I just have the frame supporting the rail.

You notched the fore frame and motor well to support the rail. I just used some large radius fillets there. I may run some stainless steel deck screws through the rail and into the end of my cleats. I really don't want that joint giving way with me standing on top.

I like your system much better :oops:

-david

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:38 pm
by DrBones
Butt blocks probably will work fine!

...I was just suggesting based on how I'm going to have to fix mine (to late for butt blocks :P )...which are by FAR not as nice as your gunwhales! - You'll be able to lift your boat with a crane from those!

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:29 am
by TomW
Larry I'd go with a thicker butt block 3/4"(?) instead of fiberglass in this instance. At least 8-12" on each side of splice since you may be walking on the gunwale. I like my splices beefy. :wink:

Tom

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:14 am
by Oceola
And, if you have, say, two butt block splices and they fall halfway between the frames you could then fit in a short half frame under each one...just an idea if you plan on walking on the gunwals or stepping on them when getting in or out of the boat.
Looking good.

Frank

P.S. Did Jacques ever post up his impressions of the CR builders meet, or did I miss it ?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:40 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall. A 3/4 butt block is what I was planning on, and span it frame to frame. This will also give backing for rod holders.

I don't think it will need any more frames, Frank. The coaming will give a lot of additional support to the deck, and I'm tired of fooling with frames :help:

P.S. Did Jacques ever post up his impressions of the CR builders meet, or did I miss it ?
I don't think so. If he did, I missed it too.

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:59 am
by mecreature
notching those supports is soo obvious... :oops:

Boat builders tips and tricks.. I want the first copy when you are done Larry.

We got to keep this stuff together in one big bunch. I find stuff scattered all over the builds that are very helpful. Stuff I seem to come up with after the fact...

again :oops: :doh:

You are very lucky to have Sam keeping an eye on you. :doh:

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:08 am
by Lucky_Louis
FWIW, I used 3/8" for my gunwales, 1/2" butt blocks and a rabbeted joint. They are bulletproof, no flexing at all. I take great joy in telling my guests and crew that they can stand anywhere they want.

The joints took <5 minutes to prep with a router set to 3/16" deep running a 1/2" straight cutting bit and a fence. Lots of surface area for glue, no chance for cracking along the joint.

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:00 pm
by davidtx
Lucky_Louis wrote:FWIW, I used 3/8" for my gunwales, 1/2" butt blocks and a rabbeted joint. They are bulletproof, no flexing at all. I take great joy in telling my guests and crew that they can stand anywhere they want.

The joints took <5 minutes to prep with a router set to 3/16" deep running a 1/2" straight cutting bit and a fence. Lots of surface area for glue, no chance for cracking along the joint.
Why did you rabbet the joints? With 3/8" gunwales and 1/2" butt block, you don't get a smooth surface.

-david

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:20 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Just the gunwale pieces are rabetted to increase the glueing surface. The buttblock goes under to stop any flexing at the joint. I didn't want to fair or glass the gunwales or coaming and I had a lot of joints (to use up the the 3/8" scrap I had). The joint were very smooth and vanished under the first coat of primer without any fairing. I saved a full sheet of 3/8 doing this.

This was the result...
Image

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:26 pm
by davidtx
Lucky_Louis wrote:Just the gunwale pieces are rabetted to increase the glueing surface. The buttblock goes under to stop any flexing at the joint. I didn't want to fair or glass the gunwales or coaming and I had a lot of joints (to use up the the 3/8" scrap I had). The joint were very smooth and vanished under the first coat of primer without any fairing. I saved a full sheet of 3/8 doing this.
Ah - you used a rabbet joint to overlap the gunwale pieces - duh! :doh:
I was thinking about the butt block to gunwale joint and drawing a blank.

-david

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:58 am
by Betowess
Nice gunnels and view from your porch Lou!

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
That is a beautiful view from the porch, isn't it 8) In the spring :P

Sam and I are moving right along. With Delila's help we fitted up the port side just like the other one..

Image

And we got the width transitions worked out. I had tried all kinds of tapers and curves, but a simple step seemed to look the best. This reduces the gunwales by 2", but still followos the lines of the boat. I hope.

Image

We glued in the starboard side, then trimmed all the faces with the back saw and block plane. This side is ready for the decks :D

Image

Then we cut out for the port side and glued that in. It still needs a little trimming.

In our ponderings, we decided it would be best to do some sanding and fairing before the side decks get glued on. Just for easier access. I've got most of the forward section now ready for fairing compound.

Image

I also cut holes in the frames for storage of gaffs, tail rope, deck brush and tag stick.

Slow but sure 8)

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:26 pm
by colonialc19
Larry, great looking work as usual, but I noticed you cut holes in your frames for the gunwales, just wondering what for? storage for a scrub brush, maybe a gaff?? I know you have a plan for it, just curious.


D

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sometime I think I write invisible words :doh:

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:31 am
by TomW
Yup them invisible words will trip 'em up every time. It is really looking good guy. I really like what you are doing with her. She is going to be one fine lady. :D

Tom

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:21 am
by chicagoross
I know what them holes are for!

Larry, your GF is a nice, solid boat. The difference between that one, and the level of detail on this one, is the kind of difference I'd like to make on my next boat too. Maybe if I take a month and re-read your thread...Actually I'm on dial-up so better wait for the CD! So what's the difference in building hours between the two? :doh:

Gorgeous work as always!

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:08 am
by stickystuff
Helloooo!!! :doh:

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:11 am
by WobblyLegs
Larry, don't you know, we just come here for the pictures... ;)

Boat's looking real good, tidy and strong.

Tim.

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:35 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom, Ross, Tim :D Even a blind hog can find an acorn if he works hard enough.
So what's the difference in building hours between the two?


:lol: :lol: No comparison Ross. It took longer to build the console for the OD than it did to build the entire GF. :?

I built the GF 16 in 90 days, from plans to splash. Less than 200 hours. Haven't done a thing to her since but use it.

The OD 18 on the other hand is several magnitudes more complex. Been working on her almost 14 months, close to 2,000 hours. It has been a much larger project than I anticipated, although if I had built it simple and to plan it would have long been finished. Probably still have 200 hours to go. Oh well, it beats watching TV :lol:

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:05 am
by dborecky
Why do it simple when you can complicate it?.. :doh: 8)

CL, Where can I find one of those brass tube flair tools for my drain plug? I'm almost ready for that and was wondering if you had a place to order one.

Derrick

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:48 am
by gk108
Cracker Larry wrote:Even a blind hog can find an acorn if he works hard enough.

The mantra of component level electronics troubleshooting. :D

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Hello Derrick, sure do...

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ging+Tools

Tell Jennifer hello!

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:39 am
by Spokaloo
Take it from a guy that underestimated his hours:

That OD goes together fast, but when you are as detailed and caring about your project as Larry, it takes time. It can be built as a workboat in less time.

E

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:47 pm
by Daddy
Right now I am hoping for something approaching a work boat finish as opposed to totally rough and nasty, yep. work boat finish sounds great. Sanding and scraping be damned!
Daddy

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:41 pm
by Oceola
Larry,

I imagine, given your experience with charter boats, that you've thought about adding a salt water washdown pump to your rig. ???

I'm supprised there aren't more washdown setups mentioned on many of the builds...guess they've never pulled a giged Ling on board a boat...LOL

Anyhoo, just a thought.

Frank

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
you've thought about adding a salt water washdown pump to your rig. ???


Oh yeah Frank, it will have a washdown pump :D I'll put a Y valve from the baitwell pump so it does double duty. It probably won't be one of those automatic pressure activated rigs like the big boys, just something simple but effective. Although on a boat this size, a bucket is fairly effective :doh:

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:30 pm
by Betowess
Cracker Larry wrote:The OD 18 on the other hand is several magnitudes more complex. Been working on her almost 14 months, close to 2,000 hours.... Probably still have 200 hours to go. Oh well, it beats watching TV :lol:
Man that is a lot of beer. I figure you're looking at about 200 to 250 cases of beer in 2000 hours. :) :doh:

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:10 pm
by Oceola
Larry said...

"I'll put a Y valve from the baitwell pump so it does double duty. It probably won't be one of those automatic pressure activated rigs like the big boys, just something simple but effective."

Cool... Y-valve, pump, spring hose w/nozzle, exactly what I was thinking, keep it simple...you know you'll be glad you did.

Build on

Frank

marine flange tool.

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:24 pm
by stickystuff
Derrick, You can use mine if you want. I can meet you half way this weekend somewhere. May even ride down your way. maybe you can point out the snook holes for me. Call me. 352 489-7914. forgot you have me on my cell phone. May give you a call tomorrow if I am able to catch you in between patients. Or you can call me.

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:33 pm
by Spokaloo
My washdown pump has a round plastic profile, cylindrical shape, about 2 feet tall, and with a metal, crescent shaped handle.

Side of washdown pump says "bucket"

E

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:56 pm
by colonialc19
Spook, is that the new 5gal. model?????? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Larry, sorry bout that question :doh: , for whatever reason I didn't read/see the last line, obviously. Yeah just call me short bus.

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:56 am
by JimW
Yes my washdown pump has never been used in five years. Of course it's the same pump as the livewell with a valve controlling the purpose of the pump.

Bucket is pretty failsafe.

The washdown hose gets used for back flushing the baitwell pump with fresh water every time out though!

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 am
by Tommy D
Larry - or anyone else with a good idea - are you going to thru hull mount your wash-down/live bait pump? If so where and how? I am re-doing my OD 18 and am tempted to add one, though I am thinking of putting a box that screws to the transom with the pump in it poking out just below the bottow of the boat a few inches from the skeg - it is a Rule 1000gph and needs to be at water level to suck.

Any other clever ideas or will this work!

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:14 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry - or anyone else with a good idea - are you going to thru hull mount your wash-down/live bait pump?
If you are talking about something like this....

Image

No, BAD idea :help: I see those baitwell pumps with the plastic thru hull fittings attached and all I can think is sunk boats. Vibrations or a dropped anchor could easily crack that connection. No cut off valve, not good. Just the running of the pump could fatigue the plastic stem.

I will use a bronze thru hull water pick up with a marelon sea cock. Then rubber hose to the pump intake.

Image

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:32 pm
by Tommy D
Not quite - I would have the whole pump in a box mounted to the outside of the boat on the transom - so no holes through the boat except one well above the water line to bring the pipe and wire through- I hope this is a bit clearer.

Thanks for the photos

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
Seems like a lot of trouble, for an ugly box on the transom with no real advantage (to me)

Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:47 am
by cape man
Last boat had a plastic through-hull on the bait well running through the bottom of the transom, then a hose taking it to the starboard side with a PVC pick up that just barely came out below the bottom (worked as a high speed take up). Created a horrid disturbance when on plane, but worked. Had the hydraulics for the jack plate go down one trip, and while working on it stepped on the bait well pump and snapped the plastic through hull on the bait well pump. Plugged the hole with a cork, so we didn't sink, but the whole thing was a cluster. Now I have no jack plate, and no bait well, both of which were critical to the day's plans. Fishing with a VIP who we were tryin to get to help our funding. :help: Bought the same brass through hull pick up that you show for my OD. Like the seacock. Agree on the fugliness of the external pumps on the transom. Done properly, a hole through the boat below the water line should be no more of a worry than the seams along the chine or where the bottom panels come together.

Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:32 am
by JimW
Bronze "flush" through hull threaded onto bronze cuttoff ball valve in bilge, then double clamped clear PVC tubing to plastic ball valves for controlling feed to wash down or baitwell. The shrimps absolutely LOVE IT! Pogeys, .... not so much but they are whimps.

Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Pogeys, .... not so much but they are whimps
Never found a pogey to be a very good bait anyhow. Except for crabs :lol:

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:11 am
by cape man
Larry,

How big is the hole and patch for the through hull transducer, and does it need to be that big?

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Deleted double post :oops:

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think I cut the hole with a 3" hole saw. The transducer is about 2 1/2". The patch is the same size as the hole :P :!:

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:43 pm
by cape man
:lol: :lol: I deserved that! Want a depth finder/gps combo, but it will have to wait. Therefore don't know the size of the shoot thru transducer I will have yet. Put the forms on my OD today and have the side panels taped and curing. Would be a good time to drill the hole for the transducer. 3" it is.

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:50 pm
by deedee
need more pictures !!!! i am going into withdrawls...... great work, you are really thinking it through :D

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
Soon come, mon 8) Been hard at it today.

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:03 am
by Cracker Larry
OK, back to it :D

We left off fitting the cleats for the gunwales. After some work with the block plane we got them nicely trued up and fair for the decks. Then we started doing some sanding under the deck areas. Got to having so much fun that I just kept on and sanded the entire interior :?

Gave it all a good vacuum and wipe down, then a coat of epoxy on everything. 2 coats on the gunwale frames.

Image

So now it's finally ready to fit the side decks :D We could just clamp a sheet of plywood on the edge and router cut it, but it would be awkward and a waste of wood. Sam decided it would be best if we made patterns so we could get the best nesting possible. It was a good idea :idea:

We got a roll of contractor's paper and rolled it out and marked it for the decks. I marked them about 1/4" wide all around, to leave fudge room.

Image

We then cut the patterns to the lines, made sure it all fit, and marked our splice points.

Image

Image

When this was all to Sam's satisfaction, we moved the full length patterns to a sheet of plywood to figure out the nesting. After much and many adjustments, :doh: about 2 hours worth, we finally figured how to get it all to fit on one sheet of plywood. There is a lot of value in Jacques nesting diagrams :wink: Since none of this is in my plans, Sam is doing all the engineering.

So if anyone needs a nesting diagram, here it is......

Image

Not as easy as it looks, I can tell ya :help:

Then we started sawing. Slow but sure we cut them all out, leaving them a little big, We will trim them to near perfection later.

Nearing the end of the day, and after a few beers, we did a rough dry fit of all the parts.....

Image

Not bad, huh 8)

Image

This will work out real nice :D

So that's where we left it. A long day in the 90's. Jumped in the pool and switched to rum drinks :lol:

Now we've got to get them glued down and trimmed to size and I'm pondering which to do first :doh: If I glue first, the epoxy is tough on router bits. If I trim first, alignment of the slippery glued panels will be critical. I'm thinking trim first, screws for alignment. Maybe not. We'll see.

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:22 am
by steve292
That looks real nice 8)
I think i'd dowel them in position,then trim, then glue. I have nightmares about wrestling awkward shaped epoxy covered bits of wood around :lol:
Nice nesting....how wide are you making the gunwales, if you don't mind me asking?
I only ask as my FS17 looks like it will be about the same size around the gunwales & I have allowed 2 sheets for mine. I am going to use 1/4 & glass it on the topside I think.This may be a stupid question as you have said you like to overbuild, but are you going to glass one or both sides of yours?
Really nice boat that is turning out to be, I hope mine is half as good 8O
Regards,
Steve

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:25 am
by WobblyLegs
"Not bad huh?" he says...

Not bad indeed!

Nice job on the nesting, looks like lots of work but worthwhile!

Looking good.

Tim.
(Itching with glass dust in my shirt...)

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:03 pm
by colonialc19
Thanks for sharing that with us Cracker 8)
As usual your work looks great 8)


D

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:55 pm
by Dougster
Boy what cool work. Those gunwhales really kick up the looks too. It's a great little tutorial in and of itself. Thanks again for the trouble to do the pics. I like Steve's dowel alignment deal, but of course you'll be consulting with Sam.

Been too long since he's had a rum drink Dougster

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:46 pm
by ks8
Can't wait to see the coaming on there too. Nice lines on the gun'ls! Mid 90's here. Potent epoxy fumes in the garage. That is something I miss about the tent. Enjoy your well ventilated final details. :)

Have you got a strategy for a bug free final finish on that beautiful woodwork?

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:46 pm
by stickystuff
Want to realy test your skills? Try an inlay on the bow deck of a redfish and a snook. Next one I build for myself I will be trying to accomplish this. I used to have a tutorial on how to do it but has been lost in all my crapola.Beautiful job Ol Man.

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:05 pm
by cedarock
Sweet Larry! That is one nice looking boat.

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:00 pm
by rjezuit
I would glue it down and spend a little extra on carbide bits. It will give a neater job, with a significantly less chance of error. Compared to the amount of money in the boat, a good router bit is cheap. Rick

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:11 pm
by cedarock
For what it is worth...I bought a set of 3 Black and Decker bits with bearings at Lowes for around 20 bucks when I started the fs12. My thinking was that they would be sacrificial. I have used the 3/8 and 1/2 and they are both still sharp. If they get me through the hm19, I will be happy. I glued the decking down and then routed the edges to the rub rail.

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:53 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Wow, Sweet, Far Out, If you keep listening to Sam he will make a builder out of you yet. AG is really taking shape. I am really enjoying the teaching that you are doing along with this build, it has given me several ideas that I wish I had thought of when I started FL.

Keep On Buildin' it is so FINE!

Robbie

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:17 am
by chicagoross
Beautiful! :D Glue first, buy yourself a new bit when it's all over! Wish my decks had fit that nice...

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:51 am
by lpwebb
For what its wourt i agree with the opinions above. you can get a flush trim bit for $10. If it saves 15 minutes of your time it has paid for itself. i got a three pack at lowes for $15 made by skill. When i did mine i glued my decks and gunnels down then removed all the drywall screws the next day and went to town with the router trimming and rounding and i was real happy with how it turned out.

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall :D

By the time most of this advise came in, I had already done the deed. We decided to trim first, glue later in deference to my Bosch $30 carbide bit. I can see the benefits of glueing first, but this will work out just fine.

There is 80 linear feet to trim, no small task in itself.

First I drilled pilot holes and attached the panels securely with drywall screws. These will insure alignment later for glueing.

Then we had at it with the router. Nothing makes sawdust like a router 8) Not something I'd want to do indoors.

For those of you not familiar with routers, here is a picture of the bit we're talking about. It's called a flush cut, or sometimes a template or pattern cutting bit. It has a pilot bearing on the bottom that rides on the template. In this case the rubrail is the template. Anything above the bearing gets cut flush with it.

Image

And let me tell you it does a real sweet job of it, too :D 8)

Image

So wearing safety glasses and a dusk mask we zipped around the outside in a counter clockwise fashion, rested awhile, drank a cold one, and zipped around the inside, clockwise. Done.

Image

I'm really pleased with this. :D It is perfectly flush, everwhere. We've got a good jig saw and I'm pretty good with it, but I could have never come close to this with it or any other saw.

Image


Image

Those are finished. Just needs some glue 8) Then we'll work out the coamings, which is the LAST PART of this boat to build.

Summer is here for certain. Pushing 100 degrees. Sam has retreated to the air conditioning, maybe until fall :lol:

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:42 pm
by steve292
beautiful work Larry 8) 8)

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Want to realy test your skills? Try an inlay on the bow deck of a redfish and a snook. Next one I build for myself I will be trying to accomplish this.


I've thought about that, but I don't think I'm good enough to do a fine job with it. I believe last months' Woodenboat had a tutorial doing a compass rose, which would look nice too. Looking forward to seeing yours. 8)
Nice nesting....how wide are you making the gunwales, if you don't mind me asking?
Thanks. They are 9" at the forward end, tapering to 6" at the rear frame, then it steps down to 4" for hatch clearance.
I think.This may be a stupid question as you have said you like to overbuild, but are you going to glass one or both sides of yours?
:lol: Yes, I'm going to tape them to the rubrails. Top only.
Have you got a strategy for a bug free final finish on that beautiful woodwork?
No. :roll:

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:08 pm
by jgroves
Lookin' good!

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:31 pm
by TomW
Larry looking great. Just back from the cabin with the water flowing under it.

Your Bosche bit probably did the 80 ft with out skipping a beat while the Skils I've used would have needed sharpening.

Tom

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:32 pm
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:
Have you got a strategy for a bug free final finish on that beautiful woodwork?
No. :roll:
I understand... natural non-skid finish... :P

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:11 pm
by stickystuff
Looks like an ol reliable Rockwell router. I have one very similar. Great tool. The whole rig looks fantastic. Now how about the inlays? Lets see just how good you are. HeHe.

Routing

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:26 pm
by cottontop
Larry, Your boat is beautiful. You can certainly be called a "master builder". John

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:26 pm
by topwater
Cl thanks for the pic of the router and bit. I work with steel and alum.
Its good to be able to read and see what you guys are talking about.
I know i could always ask and all you woodworkers would answer
but its nice to see at the same time.

Thanks

nice work as always 8)

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:05 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Larry

Everything looks great.

I haven't been on in a while...too busy boating and fishing! :lol:
I always like to see your work and I love that boat. Kinda wish I had built one for myself before I built the sled.

Build on. Hope to see you again soon. BTW, how was Costa Rica, or have you gone yet?

Huck

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:28 am
by Betowess
CL, thanks for the great documentation. Its a wonderful build!. I bet you were being real careful with that router! Lots of nice storage too 8)

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:51 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall. Just blundering along as best as we can, pondering and figuring as we go :doh: So far so good. If we can get the coaming worked out right, I will be a happy man :D
I bet you were being real careful with that router!
Real careful :!:
Build on. Hope to see you again soon. BTW, how was Costa Rica, or have you gone yet?
Thanks Huck. Leaving the end of the week for Costa Rica, will be gone almost a month. Let's plan on getting together sometime later in the summer. Tell Jessica hello! Good luck with the new job. Any idea where you'll be moving?
Cl thanks for the pic of the router and bit.
You're welcome. :) I had a feeling there were some folks who didn't know what we were talking about :wink:

Larry, Your boat is beautiful. You can certainly be called a "master builder".
:lol: No, just a real stubborn amateur John, I'll be hard pressed to get this boat looking as good as yours :help:
Now how about the inlays? Lets see just how good you are. HeHe.
Ken, I wish you wouldn't do that to me :roll: I know I'm not that good, but I do enjoy a challenge. We'll see :lol:

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:06 am
by mecreature
WoW... that looks great... good technique too. those flush cut bits are worth 3 times what you pay for them.

Tell Sam it is suppose to be a hot one this year. take it easy.

I am fostering 2 Alaskan Malamutes this summer and the shade and a baby pool of water is all they get.. they're youngsters though.

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:35 pm
by stickystuff
I have been reading up some on inlays. Can be tricky. Man has to have a lot of patience. maybe sam could do it. He sems to be in no hurry. I have an article somewhere on the process. Probably out in the garage. That is a scary thought trying to find anything in my garage. Even if I knew where it was I would forget by the time I go to the garage. My memory is really terrible anymore. I will keep digging.

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
So what are we going to use for our inlays, Ken? Exotic hardwoods, mother of pearl, abalone, some silver and gold threads maybe.

I think a dubloon would be cool on the dash 8)

I've tried inlaying twice in my life. Once on an old cheap shotgun, once on a cheap guitar. Glad they were both cheap :oops:

But, I've got more patience now than I used to. Just might could do it if it was a simple pattern. :)

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:38 pm
by gk108
Beware of the brightwork vortex :!: :help:

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:10 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Thanks Larry,
Have a great trip. Might not be moving after all. Another project is starting up in my area so I MIGHT be able to get on board with them. We will definitely do another get-together. Went canoing today and thought about you.

Enjoy your work on the boat. I know you will work the coming out. She looks beautiful.

Huck

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Appreciate it Daniel.

We're coming along. Hot in the South this week, yesterday 97 and today is already 100. It's the season to pace yourself carefully :)

I worked mostly alone yesterday, Sam is still in the A/C, and I pre-coated the bottom and edges of all the deck panels. 2 coats of epoxy, with a brush. There won't be any water getting in our wood, anywhere. After several pool and beverage breaks I started glueing the panels in place.

The drywall screws re-aligned the panels perfectly and it all went smooth. Can't fool around with the glue at these temps, no time for pondering. I finally turned on the A/C in the shop to keep the epoxy cool. Wishing my boat was in the shop too :roll:

Finished glueing the 2 bow panels and the 2 starboard panels yesterday, then today I started early and finished up the last 2 panels on the port side.

Image

Image

The side that set up overnight is remarkably strong, I can stand in the center of the span and not flex it at all. The glue really stiffened it up! No worries about the framing :D

Anyway, that's done. We'll get these cleaned up early in the morning and then start on coamings :D 8) I'm done with the heat today.

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:50 pm
by TomW
Wow Larry that really came out looking nice. Your pondering came out doin' you fine. Deb brought up the big boat last night and hopefully I'll have the Mirror done and started on the big guy by the time you get back.

Hot here to supposed to hit 90.

Tom

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:32 pm
by cape man
Larry, fantastic job. Love the difference it makes in the boat, and your layout gives me lots of ideas. Do have one question...did you put a second deck on top of the fore deck you built before the first flip?

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:07 pm
by chicagoross
Perfect job, Larry! Now you're working in my kind of weather...Like you said, no time to ponder the glue at those temps, its warming your hand before you finish stirring!

Can't really blame Sam for abandoning his position, I wouldn't want to be wearing a fur coat at 100 degrees either...I'm glad I haven't developed (serious) allergies during this process, cause at these temps, tyvek suits are out, I can only wear a mask or goggles in the morning (they fog up to badly to see after lunch), and the gloves that are my usual (protective gear) are soaking wet inside when you pull them off.

Anyhow, beautiful work as always...hope the temps let up on you a bit when you start sanding (don't think there's gonna be a camo job on this beauty)...

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall, I'm very pleased with it. I think Sam will be happy when he comes out in the fall :lol: I was prepared to take a sawzall to it if I didn't like the way it looked, but I don't think that will be necessary now :lol:
Do have one question...did you put a second deck on top of the fore deck you built before the first flip?
Yes, you can see in this picture, it is inside of, and flush with the rubrails..the new deck is glued over it.

Image

That's a piece of 3/4 ply, and the forward half of it has another piece of 3/4 the same shape glued to the bottom of it.

In the gap between the inner bow deck and that forward frame I cut another piece of 3/4 for a butt/backing block to join the 2 deck panels. The deck panels are 3/8.

The bow deck will get an anchor roller, winch and 2 cleats. I wanted plenty of strength here. No worries, it's the strongest part of the boat :D

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:13 pm
by Knottybuoyz
Nice work Larry. You and Sam take care in the heat now ok?

You're boat is really developing a character. The detail touches you've added really make it stand out. Can't wait to see it in the water!

Stay cool!

Rick

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Can't wait to see it in the water!
Me either, Rick :!: Thanks!

The problem I'll have to resist now is getting in a hurry and rushing through the finish work. Getting impatient. I know me :wink:

I've never in my life worked on a single project this long. It didn't take me this long to build my house :doh:

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:17 am
by Cracka
The boats looking real nice Larry. Seeing as though you mentioned the house, my wife and I were admiring both your boat and the house in the background the other day. Very nice mate.

Mick

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:45 am
by Knottybuoyz
Cracker Larry wrote:The problem I'll have to resist now is getting in a hurry and rushing through the finish work. Getting impatient.
I know exactly what you're talkin' about Larry. I know I'm absolutely terrible at "finishing" a project and that worries me. I don't think it's in my nature to slow down and detail the thing out. I've been working on my front porch for 4 yrs now! :oops:

Usually for me it's not about getting whatever I'm doing into service, it's about loosing interest and flipping onto the next project. Gotta work on that! Anyhow, keep buildin' we're watchin'!

Squirt says: "Hey Sam! Stay Cool!"

Image

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:59 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry the boat looks awesome. Hope I get to see it someday. Got a question for you. Are you going to put in some kind of rod holders into the deck?

AA

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:54 am
by TomW
Richard don't know if he has left yet or not but yes last I knew he planned on 4, 2 on each side. 2 straight back and 2 about 15 or so angled off the side. I don't know if he had decided on the exact angle yet.

Tom

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
You'll get to see it Richard, if I have to drive it to Aripeka :lol:

Yes there will be 2 flush mount rod holders on each side, and probably a set of lightweight outriggers.

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:46 pm
by mecreature
Looks pretty sweet... and you can see the pondering coming together.

I wonder what this thing is going to weigh when you are done

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've been wondering that myself. :doh: We'll weigh it soon and know for sure, but I'm guessing 900 lbs. I also want to determine it's CG.

We could start a "guess the weight" contest :lol:

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:21 pm
by cape man
Given the extra epoxy, wood, and fittings, I'd say 875. You may have put 900 lbs on it, but I bet you sanded 25 off :wink:

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
I bet I've sanded off a lot more than that :help:

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:01 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:You'll get to see it Richard, if I have to drive it to Aripeka :lol:

Yes there will be 2 flush mount rod holders on each side, and probably a set of lightweight outriggers.
Come on down. :) The room is free and the food is alot better than at CR. :wink:

Speaking of CR are you going to Costa Rica? I think I read something about it. If so which side? :doh:

Richard

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, leaving this weekend. Pacific side. Staying at Los Suenos for a month 8)

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:44 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:Yes, leaving this weekend. Pacific side. Staying at Los Suenos for a month 8)
Nice. :D I think you are staying northwest of where I stayed in the Quepos/Manuel Antonio area a few years ago. Sandi and I had a blast. We ate tons of chicken and snapper. (pollo and pargo) You will like Imperial. :wink:

Sandi with a Quepos sail

[img]http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... 0005~2.JPG

Have fun my friend 8)

Richard

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Richard. It's about 30 mile north of Manuel Antonio.

That's what I'm after 8) About a hundred of them on a spinning rod. And a Roosterfish. Never caught a Roosterfish.

Let me fix your picture

Image

I'm out of here in a couple hours, but will have Internet in CR, so I'll check in.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:44 pm
by cape man
Cockadoodle Doo! Go get 'em Cracker! Check back in when you get home. I'll have my OD flipped by then (I hope).

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:26 pm
by TomW
Larry safe trip and red skys :!:

Tom

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
We caught all the sails I could wish for in Costa Rica, but never did get a Rooster fish :cry: There was a red tide the entire time that had the water screwed up out to 15 miles. Some days we had to run 30 miles to find clear water and fish.

Image

Sam and I have been working hard hours and making progress since I've been home, so it's time for an update.

We left off with the side decks glued on and sanded, with inwales/coaming next on the list...

Image

The inwales gave us some pondering time. After experimenting, I decided to make them 3 1/2 inches high and keep them flush to the decks, instead of raised above. So I confidently ripped an 8' X 3 1/2" strip of 3/8 ply. When I presented it to the boat, she laughed. :oops: There was no way on earth that plank was going to follow that sheer line, even if you used a house jack. :help:

More pondering resulted in clamping a scrap strip of 1/4 ply to the inside edge, leaving it high and low, then marking along the deck line.

This mark made a significant curve when the piece was straightened. I cut out this curve, then used it as a pattern to mark the inwale. Then I offset the line 3 1/2 inches to make the bottom cuts.

After getting one side fitted, I used it as a pattern for the other side. Fortunately they are identical :D

We also had to fit around the width transition points, which was easy enough.


Image

More to follow....

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
So all those parts were dry fitted, then time to glue. Sam advised this would be a mess and we better spread some paper. Contractors paper is great for this and cheap.

One at a time we glued on the sections, takes a lot of wide clamps...didn't have enough...

Image

And got the last piece done! This is the last piece of wood to be glued. With the exception of a few backing blocks, construction is finished.

Image

Of course now it's back to the sanders :| Got this all sanded down, routed all the edges round, everything nice and flush, then gave it a coat of epoxy.

After the epoxy set, we started cutting holes. A lot of holes :help: 6 cleats, a winch, 2 bow chocks, 2 hawse pipes, 6 rod holders, 2 outrigger bases, fuel tank fill, stern light, and so on. Could start my own marine supply store :lol:

Image

Image

Rod holders and outrigger cuts can be tricky. My rod holders are mixed, both 15 degree and 30 degree, while the outrigger bases are 45 degree. Each of these cut outs have to be drilled on their respective angles or it just won't fit...

Image

Be careful with this, a 2" hole saw in a hand drill can hurt you, right Richard :P

And for these parts, I also made backing blocks with matching holes and glued them in under the decks

So we got all our cutouts and screw holes made, then we gave the entire deck, stem to stern, a coat of 12 oz. biax. Decks take a lot of abuse, this should handle it...

Image

Image

more to follow :D

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:30 pm
by tech_support
The inwales and rubrails are the same curve as the shear line, so it possible to trace a pattern off the side panels after you cut them (while they are still flat) and keep it for making exact fitting rubrails. No twisting :)

It makes for a lot of waste vs. laminating smaller pieces of 1/4'

Joel

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, I know that now, and will diligently apply that knowledge to the next boat :lol:

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:35 pm
by WobblyLegs
Hey!

Welcome back. Seems you had a good time and are more than making up for it already!

What do you think of the stiffness of the gunwales after fitting the inwales? Walked on them yet?

It looks like the end is near for this boat - thinking of the next one yet?

Tim.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Welcome back. Seems you had a good time and are more than making up for it already!
Thanks Tim.Yep to both. The gunwales are incredibly stiff. I can lift the boat by them without any flex 8) My 200 lbs. has no effect on them at all.
It looks like the end is near for this boat - thinking of the next one yet?


It has already been decided for me and will be started in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned :wink:

OK, almost caught up. After glassing the decks we trimmed out all the holes again, more sanding, more resin, get all the backing plates installed and all the hardware test fitted.

Image

Notice the hawse holes in the stern. The stern cleats will be mounted under them on the motorwell frame, the strongest frame in the boat.

The round port in the bow compartment is being replaced with another rectangular hatch. Every boat needs 2 anchor lockers, right :lol:

Image

So that's where we're at now. Now have to drill all these screw holes oversized, fill, and re-drill. Then it just needs some fairing, more sanding, and primer 8)

Cape Man has hooked me up with an almost perfect T-top at a perfect price, and I'm going to Florida next week to get it :D :D

Image

In the mean time, sand, fill, sand, fill, sand, prime, sand, prime.....

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:09 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:Image
I have to ask...

Why the windlass? You got a 50kg anchor or something?

Oh, and I'm not being picky, but I think your bow fairleads (chocks?) are the wrong way round...

I could be wrong though.

Tim.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
I have to ask...

Why the windlass? You got a 50kg anchor or something?
:lol: No, I've got a 500 kg boat though. See this picture here?

Image

Without a deck winch I would still be there :oops: .

And remember the one E recently posted of the helicopter rescue of the powerboat in the mud :help:

Well, there's no way on this green planet that I intend to have my picture taken, with my boat hanging from a chopper, just because of a little mud. If I get stuck, my wife expects me to be doing something about it, right dam now. Not wait on a chopper and getting our picture on the news.

With a winch I can run out a few hundred feet of line, set an anchor or 2, and pull this flat bottom boat across that mud flat in just a few minutes. I'll be on my way before anyone notices I'm aground and takes another picture of it :D And if I don't get free, at least I'm being pro-active which helps keep the wife calm.

And the winches were free. :wink: Want one?

I can also use it to winch off another boat that may be stuck. And it makes anchor handling from the console much easier.

Oh yeah, the fairleads are on correctly. :P

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:49 pm
by WobblyLegs
LOL

Good response.

'cept I still wonder about the fairleads - over our side of the pond they are positioned so the line is prevented from popping out - so the hooks hold the rope in place rather than being positioned for an easy way to place the rope in them. The gap would be 90º to the way the rope is sitting.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
'cept I still wonder about the fairleads
OK, I went back out and checked to be certain and they are correct. Their first job is as a fairlead to prevent abrasion, to the line or the boat. That must by definition lead the line fairly from the cleat. If I swap them, the line is kinked in the chock and rubs on the sharp sides of the chock instead of the smooth sides. So it will only work one way. Plus, they have a stamp on the bottom with a "P" and an "S" :wink: There is enough angle of the slot to still provide some retention and keep the line from popping out.

Bow chocks are made in many configurations with different of angles of lead and different entry slots. The more extreme in locking the line are called skene chocks. For this particular brand, they are correct, but thanks for keeping me on my toes :D

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:13 pm
by WobblyLegs
OK, you're right, for the 'leads you've fitted... (had a closer look at your pics).

The channels on your 'leads are with the 'flow', so to speak, which is right. It's the hooks on top that are different to what I'm used to seeing.

The pic below should explain where I'm coming from...

Image

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
Exactly. Those type we refer to as skene chocks on this side of the pond. They do retain the line better with a more agressive hook, but harder on toes and ass cheeks.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:40 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:Exactly. Those type we refer to as skene chocks on this side of the pond. They do retain the line better with a more agressive hook, but harder on toes and ass cheeks.
Aaah! Never heard of skene chocks before today (they are all fairleads to me).

Nice to learn - next time I'm state-side I will be more able to speak the lingo...

T.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:35 pm
by chicagoross
Very impressive, Larry! Looks like this will be about the best equipped small boat I've seen here. "Could start my own marine supply store " - I think you already cleaned one out! Would be interesting before fastening everything to put all that beautiful SS and all of the SS screws, nuts, washers etc. on a scale and see what the total is! That probably wasn't included in the study plan weight... :D

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's why it probably weighs 500kg :lol:

I could easily weigh them, nothing is attached. Altogether it probably isn't 25 lbs., about as much as a bag of ice, but I'll throw it all in a bucket and weight it for informational purposes. Good idea :idea:

This boat is built for 2 people, so I'm not really worried about the weight. It will just make it ride better.
Larry! Looks like this will be about the best equipped small boat I've seen here.
Or anywhere else either by the time I'm finished with her :wink: :lol:

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:06 am
by Cracka
She is looking mighty fine Larry.

Just wondering, how did you go starting off the hole with the 2" hole saw, did you put an extra long drill bit in so you could start at the correct angle?

Mick.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:12 am
by TomW
Larry, mighty fine looking boat! Looks like everything is coming together nicely that you told me about at CR. Are the Outriggers the TACO ones or another type.

Tom

PS: If your really not going to use that 2nd winch I'll take it off your hands. Don't want to do so if you'll use it.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:40 am
by Knottybuoyz
Cracker Larry wrote:This boat is built for 2 people
And two dogs???? Or even one dog? (Sam maybe).

Very nice work Larry. Been watching this thread from the beginning and I'm amazed at all the lil' tidbits, hints & tricks that you've documented here. Certainly one of the best tutorials in boatbuilding. I think this thread will hit 100 pages soon too! 8O

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:40 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Mick!
Just wondering, how did you go starting off the hole with the 2" hole saw,
Yes, I swapped out the standard pilot bit with a longer one. Should have mentioned that. Not necessary on the 15 and 30 degree holes, but it is on the 45s.


Thanks Tom. Yes the outriggers are Taco 1.5s. They are by far the best gunwale mounts. Rod holders are Smiths.

The winch is yours, I'm just using one. Email me your address. I've already rebuilt them 8)
And two dogs???? Or even one dog? (Sam maybe).
That goes without saying. Sam is half the crew. :lol:

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:04 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, you wanna go fishin when you come down next week? I owe you a rain check. :wink: The snapper should be chewing.

Richard

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
I might can work that in Richard :D How close are you to Craig's?

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:52 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:I might can work that in Richard :D How close are you to Craig's?
Craig and I live about 45 mins. apart. The boat is another 40 mins. west of Dade City .

This is a trip that we do every year during the July full moon. We plan to fish wrecks, springs and hard bottom areas from early afternoon on Saturday to Sunday noon. The plan is to catch mango and red snapper as well as red and gag grouper. The boat has a small cuddy as well as a shower and head.

Depending on the weather we will fish 25-70 miles offshore. We usually do very well but there are no guarantees. Last year we limited out.

I have the boat fueled and ready. There is space to spend the night at the boat house if you need it. You are more than welcome to come if you like and we would be delighted if you did. :D

Richard

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
That sounds real good Richard, I think I can work that into my schedule, unless there's something important Dori hasn't told me about yet. :?

I can get to Craig's on Thursday, drink some of his beer, get the T-top, sleep in his barn if there aren't many rats, head your way sometime Friday, sleep in your boathouse if there aren't many rats, and we'll fish Sat. and Sunday.

That sounds like a real good plan 8)

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:05 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:That sounds real good Richard, I think I can work that into my schedule, unless there's something important Dori hasn't told me about yet. :?

I can get to Craig's on Thursday, drink some of his beer, get the T-top, sleep in his barn if there aren't many rats, head your way sometime Friday, sleep in your boathouse if there aren't many rats, and we'll fish Sat. and Sunday.

That sounds like a real good plan 8)
Larry I haven't noticed any rats there. I think the snakes keep em chased off. :P Actually the boat house is a nice place with all the comforts of home. :wink:

The forecast for the weekend is:

FRI
N OF 28N VARIABLE WINDS 10 KT OR LESS. SEAS 2 FT OR LESS.
FROM 25N TO 28N E TO SE WINDS 10 KT OR LESS. SEAS 2 FT OR LESS.
S OF 25N E TO SE WINDS 10 TO 15 KT. SEAS 2 TO 4 FT EXCEPT 3 TO 5
FT STRAITS OF FLORIDA.

We are be fishing between 27N and 28N. This is for 20-60 NM. offshore. Almost calm enough to take Red out there. :lol:

I will send you an email Monday or Tuesday. :)

Richard

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry I haven't noticed any rats there. I think the snakes keep em chased off.
Good 8)

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:47 pm
by plumbertuck
I think he intends to use the windlass to pull in his bait or pull beer coolers aboard
:lol:


somehow I missed a bunch of posts

sorry

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:11 pm
by cape man
Just went to the pet shop and bought some rats 8)

There's an anchor light on the T top, so patch that hole on the stern.

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
That is handy 8) I do hate stern lights on a stick.

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:11 pm
by Aripeka Angler
plumbertuck wrote:I think he intends to use the windlass to pull in his bait or pull beer coolers aboard
:lol:


somehow I missed a bunch of posts

sorry
Tuck, I hope we haven't confused you too much. :doh:

Capeman has found Larry a nice t-top on the cheap. :D

Larry is coming down to pick it up...and

I am paying up on a promised fishing trip from a bar in Crystal River 8)

Richard

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:28 pm
by jgroves
Larry, Going through your pics earlier and the boat looks great! You are certainly setting your boat up to do some serious fishing! Was that outrigger mounts I seen? :D :D I like the idea of hawse pipe too.

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Jeremy, yes they're outrigger mounts. Got to have outriggers. She will soon be a fishing machine :D

I hope it turns out looking as nice as yours.

Some keeps raising the bar around here. They got me worrying about inlays and such now :help:

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:09 pm
by cape man
Don't worry. I'm yanking that bar back down to a reasonable level.

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm yanking that bar back down to a reasonable level.
:lol: :lol:

No, I'm coming down there and making sure you're keeping the standards. Tell the rats to move over, I'll see you about 4 tomorrow :D

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm back from a very long weekend. Drove 8 hours down to Craig's on Thursday and he had the beer cold when I arrived. We had few and loaded up the T top, then had a few more, and a few more, then tried some rum, a couple of varieties. About 0200 we glued on his skeg shoe, which may or may not be crooked, depending on which eye you look at it with. Ended up sampling beers and rums until about 4 AM. 8) Craig also hooked me up with a very nice windshield frame :D

Thanks Craig, I really appreciate the top, and your hospitality :!: Hope your wife is feeling better and you had a good time in the Keys.

Was up at 0700, got packed and headed for Richard's. We got ice, packed the boat, caught bait, rigged tackle, drank beer and stayed up until about 0200. Up again the next morning, completed readying the boat and left out for a 24 hour fishing trip that was great fun 8)

In from fishing about noon yesterday, cleaned the boat, the tackle and the fish, then headed for home. Drove 8 straight hours and got back at 2200 last night.

Many thanks to Craig and Richard. I enjoyed the hell out of the weekend :!: I think I'm getting old, there aren't many weekends like that left in me :doh:

Feel like I've been used hard and put up dirty this morning and my truck is sitting in the sun with a lot of fishy smelling clothes in it. Need to go take care of that.

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:52 pm
by mecreature
Sounds like fun.... I guess..

We used to do the same thing when we went up to Michigan Fishing.. I don't know how you get by with such little sleep..

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:08 pm
by jgroves
:D :lol: Sounds like you had a fine time. I hurt just thinking about that much drinking.

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:11 pm
by donk
Larry,

Beer AND demon rum. You'd a made a hell of a sailor, in the old Navy!!!

don

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:26 am
by JimW
I wanna see the skeg shoe before his comissioning. :D

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:20 pm
by chicagoross
Larry, we still got a few more of those weekends left in us; they just take a lot longer to recover from now. Like everything else - "it now takes me all night to do what I used to do all night".

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:54 pm
by cape man
You forgot to mention that we didn't have any old battery acid, so used some Colorado Moon Shine to clean the skeg shoe before securing it with glue and screws. Worked pretty well if I remember correctly.

Had a blast, and hope the hardware all works out for you.

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
You forgot to mention that we didn't have any old battery acid, so used some Colorado Moon Shine to clean the skeg shoe
Oh yeah, we drank some of that too, didn't we :?: It did etch it right up. Hardware is looking good, worked on it some this afternoon :D The top is sweet 8) I can't thank you enough.

How were the Keys? Did you catch any tarpon in the canoe?

That's a beautiful strip built canoe :)

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:12 am
by cape man
The wind was up just a bit too much for sitting under the bridges in the canoe. Tried in the basin the first night, and off a small island to the southeast of Bahia Honda, but no joy. Adam was actually more interested in snorkling, which was fine with me. Every 12 year old should spend time exploring the shallows with a mask. He asked a lot of questions, and I think he learned a lot while having a blast.

Jumped two small Tarpon (~30lbs) from the shore, but neither hooked up well. Had fresh snapper and grunt two nights in a row, and definitely chilled out for three days. Needed a battery recharge.
I wanna see the skeg shoe before his comissioning.
What happens in Lithia, stays in Lithia.

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
There is not many things more entertaining than snorkeling on a good reef, for kids or adults 8)

The top is almost a perfect fit :D I've made a few mods, now it just needs a little tweaking. What do you think?

Image

Almost like it was made for her :D

Image

Thanks again, Craig. I really enjoyed the visit, and now I owe you big time. This top is really nice :D

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:18 pm
by cape man
SWEET! I knew when I saw it that it was a good fit for the OD 18, but seeing it on your boat am really glad I grabbed it. As I told you, if it wasn't for the mangrove creeks I HAVE to get into, I would have kept it. Will forward the pic to my friend who hooked me up. He'll be tickled it worked out this way. All you owe me is to let me hang on to it some day as we crash out the pass on the way to some fish. Did you already cut the two posts that came in the side of the console or did they somehow work as well?

Love the lines on the gunnels. Looking good man! Get her wet soon.

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:47 pm
by TomW
Larry, Capeman got you a winner. That thing looks great in the boat, like she was born for her. Enjoy!

Tom

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:26 am
by Oceola
Larry,
Well, the boat's looking great. Those rod holders, etc, are nice.

And, the Top really sets it off. As you said, almost a perfect fit.

I notice that the front legs are on a bit more of an angle back than the front of the console. Maybe it's just the angle of the photo but the top itself seems higher in the front than the rear. What I was wondering is if the top needs to be more parallel to the boat so that when trailering or running at WOT, the top is not acting like a wing and trying to lift out of the boat.??? Don't know what the correct "Angle of Attack" is for a T top on a boat but I bet there are plenty of folks here that have experience with that.

Guess you could just put some shims/pads under the rear legs to adjust it so it's parallel and also the front legs would then match the front of the console even better...Just a thought....you've probably figured this out already.

Frank

P.S. Beautifull Sailfish!

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:38 am
by chicagoross
Looks like it belongs there! One impressive boat, Larry!

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:16 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all :D Just needs a little tweaking to be perfect.
Did you already cut the two posts that came in the side of the console
Yes, I've rough cut them so I could try the fit.

The gunnels got their first coat of fairing compound yesterday. Maybe today I'll sand them down and give it another. Almost ready to prime 8)
I notice that the front legs are on a bit more of an angle back than the front of the console. Maybe it's just the angle of the photo but the top itself seems higher in the front than the rear. What I was wondering is if the top needs to be more parallel to the boat so that when trailering or running at WOT, the top is not acting like a wing and trying to lift out of the boat.??? Don't know what the correct "Angle of Attack" is for a T top on a boat but I bet there are plenty of folks here that have experience with that.
Good eye Frank :wink: You must be a pilot too. I also think the AOA is a bit too positive for safe trailering or efficient running. It's going to try to fly like this. I need to make it level or even a little negative, I've been pondering solutions, but my choices really are only to shim the rear or shorten the front legs, which is the way I'm leaning towards right now. If I can get my neighbor to do some welding for me, I think I'll just cut the front legs and weld the flanges back on. The top is a little higher than it needs to be anyway. I'll take some measurements today and see what we need to do.

Thanks for the suggestion, you are correct 8)

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:59 am
by peter-curacao
Larry,

Looking really nice, if I may make a suggestion?
If your neighbor do the welding for you, I think you have to shorten the front legs at the top and weld the top back to the legs, because it looks like the pipes between the front and back legs are nice and level, also the legs itself looks like they are at the right angle.
If you shorten the front legs at the bottom that won't be the case anymore, I'm not sure but on the photo it looks like that.

Really beautiful boat!!

Peter

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:12 am
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Peter. I see what you're saying and you are correct. Any adjustment made at the bottom will throw the cross braces off level and right now they are perfect :doh:

I appreciate you pointing that out before I did something stupid with the sawz-all:oops:

I don't think the angle is as bad as it appears in the photo, because of the camera angle. I'll go get a straight on side shot and take some measurements from the top to the sole, then we'll know what we have to work with.

Thanks again :D Your suggestions are always welcome.

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:38 am
by Knottybuoyz
I think, yeah I know here we go, you should put it in the water and see how it sits Larry! ;-)

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:12 am
by Spokaloo
Im thinking the top only looks sloped thanks to Larry's height compared to the boat in the photo. Put a tape from the braces to the top hoop, I bet its actually just fine.

E

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:29 am
by Cracker Larry
OK, I've measured it and it's not as bad as it looks. The front is only 2" higher than the rear, measuring to the sole. I think that's caused by some minor bendage, probably someone hanging from the rear of the top. I can probably straighten it with the chain falls.

Maybe I'll just leave it alone until we float it as suggested. I like the way the top follows the sheer line. If I tilt it down it may look odd :doh:

The T-Bag storage full of life jackets should break up the airflow enough to keep lift to a minimum.

I'll just carry on with my sanding and fairing while I ponder over this for a while. No need to rush into a decision right away.

Thanks yall :D

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:41 pm
by JimW
Looks great C-Larry.

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:04 pm
by donk
Larry,

It looks like ya lucked out!! That is one sharp looking boat.

don

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:07 pm
by cape man
Larry,

Look at the funky joints where the rear posts transition from 1.5" to 1.25" alluminum, just past the curve going back to the rear edge of the top. I think that is where the 2" difference between the front and rear occurs. Didn't look like a straight joint to me.

Like my skeg shoe, no one will ever see it :lol:

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, I think so too 8) And there ain't nothing wrong with that shoe :wink:

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:45 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, did the blocking for the t-top mounts work out ok under the deck :?: Hope so...

Richard

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:34 pm
by ks8
Nice! Mix that paint... :)

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:45 am
by bernd1
Nice boat,

I'm sure a lot of people will ask you for the manufacturer :wink:

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the comments :D
Larry, did the blocking for the t-top mounts work out ok under the deck
No, the rear legs are OK but the front legs don't reach the forward backing blocks, so I'm going to have to work out some additional backing. :? Nothing but a thing, that sure would have been luck if it all fit :lol:
Nice! Mix that paint
Getting close KS. Sam and I have been filling and sanding....

Image

And filling and sanding...

Image

And filling and sanding....

Image

After 3 rounds on the side decks and inwales, I declared it good nuff, no matter what Sam said. Then I sealed the fairing compound with a last coat of rolled on epoxy.

Image

So we've got the gunwales and inwales ready for primer, slick as babies butt, I hope. Moving right along :D

Image

Today we took a break and decided to open shrimp season in the GF 16. Dori and I went out early to catch the 0800 tide and we netted up about 30 quarts in an hour. They were still running a little small so we'll give them another week to grow some more. Looks like a good shrimp population this year :D

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:04 pm
by Spokaloo
Is that a dip I see?

E

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:51 pm
by slump67
Larry, the boat and craftsmanship are excellent. I'm wondering, is that a Atlantic T-top?


Al

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:15 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:
Today we took a break and decided to open shrimp season in the GF 16. Dori and I went out early to catch the 0800 tide and we netted up about 30 quarts in an hour. They were still running a little small so we'll give them another week to grow some more. Looks like a good shrimp population this year :D
Sounds like fun :!: Speaking of shrimp, we forgot to toss the pinfish bait from the fridge at the boat house last weekend. 8O Today I opened the fridge to check get one of Capeman's BBBs and was hit by bio hazard cloud. The stuff smelled so bad I almost hurled. Mrs. AA was not amused. :lol:

AA

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, the boat and craftsmanship are excellent. I'm wondering, is that a Atlantic T-top?
Thank you, Al. I have no idea what brand the T-top is :doh: I haven't seen any kind of label on it.
Speaking of shrimp, we forgot to toss the pinfish bait from the fridge at the boat house last weekend.
8O Oh no. :lol: Can't help but laugh, but that's not good. You need to get an extra freezer for the boathouse and stencil BAIT on it, in big letters.

Good thing we left it in the fridge, and not on the counter though :wink: :lol:

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Is that a dip I see?


Sam and I don't dip, so it must be a reflection :?

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:25 am
by Spokaloo
Maybe its a run...

:lol:

God I love the fairing stage....

E

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:58 am
by cape man
The BBB is ready. Had a few this weekend to get me through some ROUGH sanding. Hear there's some that have a rotten pinfish after taste, but still pretty good... :lol:

Boat's looking good. Just spent some time reviewing your thread at the point where I am at. Sanding and fairing the bottom.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK good, I'll ice down a couple. Need it after today. Sanding and filling on the insides :| Insides I've found to be worse than outsides because all the dust falls in instead of off. I don't know how I always time my builds to do the worst sanding in the hottest weather :doh:

The pin fish bait was fresh shrimp, which imparts a whole different flavor from fish :lol: Aging generally doesn't make it better though. But it's all good, as long as Mrs. AA will let me come back :wink:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe its a run...
Probably was, there were a few, but I think I got them gone now :D

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:02 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Hey Larry,

She looks great. The tower really adds a custom touch to your very nice work. Looking forward to seeing you in October. Do you think you will be bringing the new girl?

Great work, as usual.

Huck

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:15 pm
by Aripeka Angler
[quote="Cracker Larry"]

The pin fish bait was fresh shrimp, which imparts a whole different flavor from fish :lol: Aging generally doesn't make it better though. But it's all good, as long as Mrs. AA will let me come back :wink:

This is not the first time Sandi has busted me for leaving bait in the fridge. :lol: No problem I took complete responsiblity for the incident. 8) I gave her a BBB which she said was very good. Your welcome to come back anytime.

The boat is looking great :!: I think your T-top was made by Quality Marine Fabricators. It looks like their work and they stamp their tops with a sticker that falls off the first time you wash it :doh: Thats my best guess.

AA

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:01 pm
by bushmaster
Hey Cracker


That baby is a beaut...too good for gators...

Keep them pictures coming.


Bushmaster

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:49 pm
by robbiro
8O Larry, the T-top really sets off her lines. You will have to explain to most who see her that your boat did not come from a big time boatyard (Not to say that your yard is not full of big time boats and was constructed by caring hands that did what was needed to have a great boat). Good luck with the final sanding and the priming. I hope to get back on mine next week. Long story and I ain't going there this time

Keep on Buildin"

Robbie

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Your welcome to come back anytime.
Richard, I'd love to do it again in the fall. Next time I'll buy the gas. That was a really good trip 8)
That baby is a beaut...too good for gators...
Oh no, we'll always make room for a gator :lol: A boat isn't any good if you're scared to use it. It will wash :wink:
Looking forward to seeing you in October. Do you think you will be bringing the new girl?


Thanks Huck. I'll bring her if you bring Jessica :D Should be finished by then. How's the new project coming along?

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
Good luck with the final sanding and the priming
Thanks Robbie, not sure there is such a thing :doh: Ugh. Sanding inside the cockpit is no fun in 100 degree weather.

Sam and I took a break from sanding today and worked on the mounting for the T-top legs. It mounts at 8 points with 3 bolts at each. 4 points on the sole and 4 on the console.

Sadly, some of the backing plates I had installed under the sole for a top did not line up with newly aquired top legs, so we had to engineer some additional support for the bolts. I think this will work, but I'm no engineer. I do know that the 1/2 ply by itself is not strong enough.

So first I marked and drilled for all the 1/4" leg bolts into the sole. Then I moved the top and drilled the holes way oversized to 3/4".

Image

There was some gappage between the sole and the foam below. I wanted a good support for the sole and a mold for epoxy, so first we mixed some 2 part foam and poured it down each hole. I love 2 part foam 8)

Image

No doubt everything under these decks are sealed now!

After the foam cured, we cut it off flush and re-drilled the holes to 3/4" and 4" deep. Then using a grinding bit on a dremel tool I recessed or rabbited the foam under the sole about 1/2" all around each hole. This will make an epoxy collar extending under the sole in every direction.

Image

Also I cut a chamfer on the top of every hole, to allow the epoxy to really get a grip around the plywood, top and bottom.

I will put a washer and a nut on each 4" bolt and set them in thickened wet epoxy. Here is a drawing of what I'm trying to accomplish if my description makes no sense.. Not sure my drawing makes sense either..

Image

If anyone thinks this won't hold it forever, please speak up now 8)

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:12 pm
by gk108
OK, I'm speaking up.
I think the length below the wide part of your epoxy will be a problem. If it was wood instead of foam, maybe, but the foam isn't giving you any help there and the epoxy sleeve will either split or break off below the wide area. A 2" or 2½" bolt in the same arrangement would be less likely to do that. At least that's how it looks to me. :D

Addendum:
See if this makes sense... For some reason it reminds me of setting a 6" anchor bolt in a 4" concrete slab.

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:23 pm
by TomW
Larry, I agree with Gary I would make the column larger all the way down, to prevent it from cracking overtime. I would also use your fiberglass fibers in this one, as thick as you can make it. A 1/4 x20 lead or plastic insert at the top will also help hold better if you can insert the bolt while the eposy is still semi-liquid. I really would not worry about the nut at the bottom to much the length of the bolt will take care of that. As I recall a 1/4" lead anchor adds 60-80 lbs to the holding power to a straight bolt. You can check me as I'm not at my workshop.

Tom.

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:08 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Larry,

I have no opinion that would be based on fact or knowledge but I think I agree with Gary. The theory makes sense. Milled fibers make sense, too.

When I spoke of the "new girl" I meant Alley Green. I will be bringing Mrs Huck, and wouldn't mind meeting Mrs Cracker! The more girls, the merrier!!

Good luck on the T-top

Huck

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:08 am
by cape man
If that sucker moves, I'll get you another one! 6 screws secured as you drew it will not move. The hull is gonna crack first. Go fishing.
:lol: :lol:
IMHO...

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:32 am
by Cracker Larry
OK, I'm speaking up.
Interesting GK. So you're saying a short bolt would be stronger than a long one? Very interesting :doh:
As I recall a 1/4" lead anchor adds 60-80 lbs to the holding power to a straight bolt. You can check me as I'm not at my workshop.
Tom, I don't think adding a lead anchor to a stainless bolt thru an aluminum fitting, in salt water, would be a good idea. Too many metals mixed up with salt.

It will be filled with milled fibers and wood flour.
The more girls, the merrier!!


Ain't that the truth, Huck :wink:
If that sucker moves, I'll get you another one! 6 screws secured as you drew it will not move.
That's sort of what I was thinking Craig, but I could be wrong. It's actually 12 screws like that on the sole, not 6. 3 per leg, 4 legs.

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:29 am
by cape man
Misunderstood. Thought at least two of them lined up with your backing plates. It should still hold.

Anyone ever use these blind fastners?

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... o?pid=9943

Image

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:59 am
by tech_support
Larry,

That bolt will hold. I would make the epoxy/milled fiber collar as wide as you can under the sole. I think its a brilliant idea to use the pour foam as mold for epoxy plug inserts :!:

If you wax the inside of the not and the treads on the screw, you will be able to remove them after the epoxy sets

Joel

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:14 am
by steve292
I agree with Shine, that will hold,also the wider & thicker the collar is the better to spread the load.If you are using the nut & washer as the anchor point in the epoxy Gary is also right in that you don't need 4" of stud below the collar.Shines idea of wax is also good as it makes your T top demountable.
My 0.002 :D
Steve

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall :D . I will shorten the bolt and try to widen the collar a little more. I was planning on waxing the threads to make them removable.
Misunderstood. Thought at least two of them lined up with your backing plates. It should still hold.
They do, but I'm treating all of them the same way.
I think its a brilliant idea to use the pour foam as mold for epoxy plug inserts


Necessity is the mother of invention :lol:

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:22 am
by gk108
I think it's best to treat all the holes the same way. Don't know about you, but I've seen a lot of T-top frames crack right at the flange mount. Your method should go a long way towards preventing that because the epoxy will eliminate a hard spot, same as gaps between frames and hull panels. 8)

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:25 am
by mecreature
when I was cutting all my wood for my D15 the solid Mahogany. I saved a ton of the saw dust.. really really course stuff and a couple times I mixed that with some left over epoxy in a film container to see what came of it..

the wood saw dust got totally saturated by the epoxy and made a really hard plug.. It worked like wood or harder in every aspect... I mixed it super thick with wood..


just an observation.

I kept it for an example when people ask "Now what is this thing made of?"

Seems like it would work.. I would shorten like GK suggest. and use good fillers... but you know this..

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:44 am
by Cracker Larry
Alright, we got all the T top mounting points squared away and ready for installation.

Then I got back to the dreaded filling and sanding of the interior. For 5 straight days, about 10 hours a day. 105 degrees under my tin roof :help: I've filled...

Image

And sanded.....

Image

And filled some more.....

And sanded some more.

Image

My back gave out on Tuesday, my arms gave out on Wednesday,
almost said good nuff on several occasions. Just about lost my will power on Thursday. Arms and back numb. Covered in a white paste of sweat and sanding dust. Thought I was going to have a heat stroke.

Sanded all day Friday, running on stubborn alone. Iced down one of Craigs famous and prized BBBs, but couldn't lift the bottle. Ms. Cracker brought me rum and a straw. Good woman 8)

Don't think I can do it again today. Might go fishing :doh:

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:57 am
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:Ms. Cracker brought me rum and a straw. Good woman 8)
I'll second that!

When its painted, all that sanding is going to be worth it!

Keep going...

Tim.

PS: I can almost feel that dust in my mouth :(

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:20 pm
by TomW
Man I can fell the dust in my mouth, up the nose and everywhere else! Good lady that Dori! Can see why you haven't posted this week, arms to tired to touch the keyboard! :lol:

Looking Good!

Tom

PS: Doc gave me permission to start using the shoulder Monday. Finally :D

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:47 pm
by Dougster
Talk about grit. Do you use sandpaper Larry or just your bare hands? :) I've done 2 hrs to your 10 today with the longboard, only 94 degrees in my shed compared your hunnert and some, and I'm 'bout done! Maybe I'll get one more hour in, thats it. Are you using the RO at all or just hand sanding? It looks great and your push is inspiring.

Shaking his head in awe Dougster

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:53 pm
by stickystuff
Poor Ol Sam. Probably looks like a white dog now. You have the patience of Job my friend. Looks fantastic.

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
Ugh. The definate low point of boatbuilding. :( As long as I don't run out of stubborn, I guess I'll get it finished. Done ran out of everything else.

Dougster, was going to reply to your sanding thread last night but I could barely type. I'm using the RO everywhere it will reach, then using hand and dremel tool in the tight spots. We're about finished (I think) with the RO, but have a lot of corners to work on still.

Even after 2 coats of filler I'm finding spots that I missed, so I guess I'll have to make one more round, this time with Quick Fair, but just in the trouble spots.

The only effort I've expended today towards the boat was to wash it out :D I couldn't stand the thought of vaccuming it any more, so I lifted the bow and took the hose to it. Been wanting to do that for a long time, finally everything is sealed and 12 drains functioning, I spent an hour getting rid of dust. Now I can really tell what's left to fair, but I didn't even look at it :wink: Going to let her rest for a day or 2. The drains worked great leaving all compartments dry.

Tomorrow I'm going to loosen these sore muscles by throwing a shrimp net for a couple of hours. Maybe I'll forget about sanding :lol:

Hope to get a final seal coat of epoxy on her the first part of the week, and first coat of S3 primer by the weekend. We'll see how those goals work out.

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Poor Ol Sam. Probably looks like a white dog now.
Thanks Ken :D Sam deserted me about Tuesday and has been holed up in the air conditioning ever since.

Actually, I make him stay inside when I'm sanding because I don't want him breathing the dust.

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:47 pm
by Aripeka Angler
The boat looks great :!: I won't give you a motivational speech. Not that you don't need it, just because I am not good at it....

Richard

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:02 pm
by stickystuff
I talked to Brian this afternoon about his XF20. I may have my Phantom sold and was going to get his XF. Unfortunately he has a guy from Atlanta coming down tomorrow(Sunday) to pick it up. He is going to get one hell of a nice rig. Sorry I missed the boat on this one.
Keep sanding Larry. Its almost there.

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:57 pm
by chicagoross
I love this build, I admire it and the persistance of the builder and have learned a lot from both! My early workboat finish decision was based on the fact that I can get numb hands just running a sander or a paint brush, and the back can act up for either of these tools as well. Was it Eastwood or Wayne that said "A man's got to know his limitations"? I do.

As you said before, Larry, it's that last 5% that's the killer, and if you can't gut out that last 5% that will be the visual focus point, not the 95% that was done perfectly.

Kudos on gutting it out, Larry! You're going to get the blue ribbons for "best equipped", "most solid", and the first place beauty prize. In fact, probably everything except "lightest" :lol: . People are going to be drooling over this build 10 years from now, years after your body finally forgets the toll this boat took on it!

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:14 am
by bushmaster
Larry

You sure your arms are numb from sanding and fairing...etc. or from that Demerara Rum. Try King of Diamond if you can get it here. Special order from Guyana, maybe!

I know the hurt and feeling. sometimes I feel like giving up, but then I see the results, having never done this before. Every one thought I was nuts to start some thing like this anyway.

Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see it launched.


Bushamster

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:55 am
by Cracker Larry
In fact, probably everything except "lightest" . People are going to be drooling over this build 10 years from now, years after your body finally forgets the toll this boat took on it!
Thanks CR. It certainly won't win any prizes for the lightest, but I figure a 90 Yamaha 2 stroke will make up for the weight :lol: Don't know about the rest of that. There are a lot of real nice boats being built here by some very talented people 8) Not sure I'm in the running with some of them.

I haven't gutted it out yet, it's still got a ways to go, we'll see how long I last.
You sure your arms are numb from sanding and fairing...
Pretty dam certain of it :doh:
or from that Demerara Rum. Try King of Diamond if you can get it here. Special order from Guyana
Never tried that, I'll look for it. Right now we're medicating with Flor de Cana, from Nicaragua. The best thing to ever come out of Nicaragua
Every one thought I was nuts
I've been told I'm nuts so many times and for so long that I just assume I am, and carry on with what I intend to do. Gives my wife a fit :lol:

Thanks BM

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:34 pm
by cape man
Ron Zacapa, 23 yr, from Guatemala. Available in good stores and the sweetest rum I ever put to my lips. Used to be cheap unitl they won a couple of awards, but well worth the $35.

Let's all say it together... "Sanding Sucks!"

Don't think my 40 will keep up with your 70, but someday we're gonna run these girls somewhere together. I'll just have to leave you in the mouth of the creek :lol:

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:47 pm
by peter-curacao
Shall we make a rum topic??? I know some sweet rums to

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
Shall we make a rum topic???
No, rum's not off topic, or a hijack offense on my thread. Say anything you want to here 8)
Ron Zacapa, 23 yr, from Guatemala.
Isn't that what we had before the moonshine?

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
Don't think my 40 will keep up with your 70,
Won't keep up with my 90 either :P

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:09 pm
by peter-curacao
No, rum's not off topic, or a hijack offense on my thread. Say anything you want to here Cool
LOL :P :P :P :P ever heard of Barcelo ? no not the hotel chain :lol: !! or Brugal??

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes I have, both from the Dominican Republic and both good. Brugal is too sweet and spicy for me.

Did you know Barcelo uses old Kentucky whiskey barrels to age their rum in?

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:32 pm
by peter-curacao
why would they do that? btw Brugal has a white version too (carta blana) maybe you like that better? O yeah this is a sweety to! Cacique from Venezuela.

cheerio

Peter :P

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
No whites. Dark rum only. Unless dark isn't available. :wink:

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:38 pm
by peter-curacao
Cacique from Venezuela.
available very very dark :wink:

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:49 pm
by cape man
Isn't that what we had before the moonshine?
It was a seven yr old Havana Club. It prompted the Mariel story (I think).

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:02 am
by chicagoross
Haven't had the pleasure of those exotics, but in Baja the Mexican Ron Castillo Anejo made pretty decent boat drinks. :)

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Still filling and sanding. Haven't quit yet. Getting closer :D

Image

Just hosed her out again. A little more QF, a little more love, we're going to have her where we want her 8)

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:43 am
by cape man
Larry,

Looking sweet man! Close....very close now...

May have missed it earlier, but what are the four small holes in the forward walls of the baitwell and starboard stern locker?

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:33 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Craig. Just a couple more days, I hope.
May have missed it earlier, but what are the four small holes in the forward walls of the baitwell and starboard stern locker?
The stern cleats will be bolted there, on the front of the bulkhead. Hawse pipes are located above them in the gunwale.

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:37 am
by jeremy
It's looking great Larry! Keep up the sanding; there's no sense in being disappointed when you look at the boat later with an overly critical eye and discover some little run or dip. We are all our own worst critics (except for Sam, he seems pretty harsh) - no one else would ever notice those flaws, but there's no sense in stopping short of your own expectations.

Of course, you know all that already or you wouldn't have produced such a great looking boat.


This thread is getting dangerously close to 100 pages.

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:10 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Jeremy! I just finished putting on another coat of QF :D

And you just made the top of page 100 8)

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:42 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

8) 100 pages of fine boatbuilding and more... That's the great difference between this forum and "the others"..... Here you are really a member of a big and great family!!! :D


Always following your progresses

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:33 pm
by cape man
The stern cleats will be bolted there, on the front of the bulkhead. Hawse pipes are located above them in the gunwale.
I see, said the blind man. Nice. Like it, but will stick with my 5" recessed, pull-up cleats. When I have to tow you in I'll just tie you up to the rear U-bolts :lol:

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:08 pm
by peter-curacao
100 pages 8O I drink to that you chose the rum :lol: congratulations.


Peter

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Like it, but will stick with my 5" recessed, pull-up cleats. When I have to tow you in I'll just tie you up to the rear U-bolts
I prefer cleats I can really use. :P

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
I drink to that you chose the rum congratulations.
Thank you Peter. I'll let you choose the rum :D

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Thank you too sir :D It is a good family.

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:42 pm
by cape man
I prefer cleats I can really use.
Ouch!

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Those pop ups you have are large and stout, about the stoutest I've seen of that type. But I just don't trust them :doh: Sounds like you may not either :?:

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:57 pm
by topwater
Congrates on hitting 100 CL!
This really is a great read. Lots of info.

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
While we're on page 100, a centennial event :D I'll make a speech :lol:

I wanted to take a minute to say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

Thanks to Jacques and Evan for designing damn good boats that us common folks can build, and have an uncommonly good boat. Thanks to Joel for all his knowledge and keeping the materials flowing. Thanks to both and their staff and webmaster for all the technical support and for providing the format that brings us together.

Without the internet and a forum like this, it would be impossible to accumulate the knowledge necessary to do what we do, so I wanted to say I appreciate yall.

And thanks the most to each of you builders who have offered advice and opinions, moral support when I'm low, a kick in the ass when I need it, shooting me down when I get too carried away. This boat is an accumulation all the knowledge shared here and everything we've learned along the way. I could not have done nearly as good of a job without all of your help.

So, hopefully we can wrap this one up in another 15 or 20 pages and move on to another one 8)

Sanding report to follow.....

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:31 pm
by WobblyLegs
Hear hear! My sentiments exactly!

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:36 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:Sanding report to follow.....
Image

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, I'm done with sanding filler 8) I mean I'm DONE with it :!: My digital thermometer says 106.7, in the shade. I've never seen it read so high, ever :doh:

So for the eighth day of sanding the interior, I started at 0630 this morning and finished her up about 1530 this afternoon. This was the final sanding of the 3rd. coat of filler on the inside. This coat was Quick Fair and it does sand easier than blended filler and makes for a smoother final product.

She isn't quite yet to that elusive goal of perfect, but she is at the level known as Good Nuff for me. :D After all, she's a fishing boat, not the Presidential Yacht :lol: I just can't sand any more filler. This last round again started with the RO, then the Dremel, then hand sanding. Did I mention I was done :?: But she does look real good. Good enough to put some primer on her and see what we've got anyway.

In honor of calling it done, I broke out another of the rare and cherished BBBs, and sucked that thing down. Thanks Craig, I don't remember a beer ever tasting better 8) :D

Image

The other thing I am done with is dust. I've had dust in every crack, crevice and orifice. So did my building area. Again I pulled out the big hose, hooked straight to the well head. First I blasted off myself with the 60 degree well water 8) 8O , then I blasted off the entire building area, and the boat. I washed the rafters, the beams, the posts, the roof, walls, floor, and most of all the boat.

She looks like she's had a coat of epoxy, but it's just water...I lifted the bow a little with the chain hoist and she drains real good.

Image

So she's going to dry out today, then tomorrow get a final seal coat of epoxy. Then primer :D I ain't sanding any more filler :!:

Oh yeah, my steering gear showed up today too. I was needing to get the cut outs made for them real soon. That's the only thing I haven't pre cut and fitted. Sure hope I ordered the right length cable.

Image

I'm not even going to look at it further today. Don't even want to know if it fits. I'm done :wink:

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:51 pm
by Dougster
Congratulation Larry, a major, major milestone. I'm more early times on the fairing thing and kinda get it. I took today off except to vacuum, wipe the hull with tack cloth and do one little test fill. I still lay it on too thick. God punishes me but I well know not near 'nuff and so am grateful. I'm half though a Negro Modelo and lift a toast to the end of your sanding filler! It's a beautiful build and has pulled me along, as so have so many others. I echo your formal appreciation thanks to Jacques, Joel, and crowd for what this all brings.

Happy for you Dougster

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Dougster. I appreciate you. We've been making this journey together for a long while, and you picked a great brew for the occasion 8)

It is a beautiful day when you can trade the vacuum, the air hose, and the tack cloths, all for 1 good water hose :lol: You know it's downhill from there.

Lay it on thin, you just got to sand it off again. I went and checked on Saltponder's Panga yesterday afternoon. He'd used more filler in one coat on the outside than I have on the entire build. He was worried he'd sanded off too much glass, in 4 disks and a few hours. I told him to call me back in a week or 50 disks, whichever comes first :lol:

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:30 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, AG looks way better than good :D Perfectomundo :!: I wouldn't be afraid to take the boat as far as the offshore springs on a good day :wink:

I admire your resolve at this stage in the Summer heat. Looks like you are on track for some great Fall fishing. 8)

Richard

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:43 pm
by TomW
Larry happy 100, she looks great. Ready for you to paint and outfit. Then out to the stream for some great fishing. Hope she is everything you want her to be and more.

Tom

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Richard :D I wouldn't either. She'd be perfectly safe out there in any reasonable weather. And with a 200 mile range, she can easily get there and back with plenty of reserve.

When are we going again?

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:04 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry any time is good after October 15th. The water is cooler then and the grouper bite is good. I had a lot of fun on the deep spring trip :!: It gets better than that when the water temp. is right (as you know).

We will go again soon. I enjoyed the last trip and look forward to an Atlantic trip when AG is splashed 8)

Richard

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry any time is good after October 15th.
Is that when those dang sharks leave?
I had a lot of fun on the deep spring trip
So did I. That was great! Next time I hope to have more sleep. Blame that on Craig :lol: Sounds good anyway :lol: I'm ready any time.

AG should be splashed by fall. Good fishing in the fall :wink: Good shrimping now if you want some shrimp.

The "Cracker's " Build

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:22 pm
by cottontop
Larry, She's beautiful. The sanding is a tremendous amount of work but well worth it. I did my sanding in the winter(go ahead and call me chicken). I was glad for some warmth when spring got here. It was just in time for painting. Congrats on all the fine work and the detail written on your build. She has got to be one of the best builds ever: if not "the Best". Looking forward to seeing the finished product on the water. have a great weekend. Cottontop 8)

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:37 pm
by peter-curacao
Larry,

Great speech strong and short the way I like it, I didn't fall a sleep :lol:
BBB ? now you are making me real curious, can I compare it with Polar?
Btw great sanding, Silvester van Damme :wink: :P

Cheers Peter

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, She's beautiful.
Thanks John :D That means a lot compared to yours. I don't know if this finish will compare, but it's all I got in me right now :| At least I'm not fairing with wood flour :P Don't know how you did it. Have you and Cheryl been getting any use out of yours?
BBB ? now you are making me real curious, can I compare it with Polar?
I don't know :doh: You can compare it to a stiff German stout I think. Maybe a German lager, but it is stout 8O It is specially brewed by Cape Man Craig Watson, and rationed out in very small quantities to those of us who especially deserve and properly cherish it :lol:

BBB is Boat Building Beer.

Image

The label on the neck says " Brilliantly Brewed for Better Wet Sanding" and the finer print below the BBB says..

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief even denied to prayer."

That's a Mark Twain quote. Not to be confused with Claude Eastwood :lol:

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:37 pm
by peter-curacao
Tssss you guys have a lot of fun stuff in close range :P But no, Polar is a thirst quenching beer you suck down in ahhh in probably a second? *

Image

Its a beer from Venezuela works as good as Gatorade :wink:

But please if you ever visit my small island please bring me a BBB, I'l give you a case of Polar for it :lol:

*If your name is Clint Spenser or Terence Willis 8) :wink:

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've only got 2 left :lol:

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:16 am
by cape man
Honored you saved one of the beers for the event. Liked seeing it on your deck. Hope it helped.

It's an India Pale Ale recipe with LOTS of hops.
About 5.5% Alchohol. Won't etch alluminum, but two or three will help the aches of sanding.

Peter, have had Polar, and agree with your description. About like a Corona from Mexico. If I ever land in Curacao, I'll bring you several BBBs.

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:54 pm
by donk
Larry, you are obviously dedicated to this forum. Your build is beautiful and the way you've walked us newbies through every step sure is appreciated.

Congrats on yet another major step.

don

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:15 pm
by mecreature
Looks great Larry. But there has got to be an easier way man.

tell sam we said he's a good boy..

BTW——
I was looking over you GF16... I thought I seen some rod holders you made on there.. how are those working out.. I want a few but if the ones bought are better I would go that route.. and what diameter pvc did you use on them...

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you DonK :D

Thank you too, mecreature :D
But there has got to be an easier way man.


Well I'm certainly open to suggestions :?
I was looking over you GF16... I thought I seen some rod holders you made on there..
They are every bit as good as store bought, at least the plastic store bought, maybe not as good as the stainless ones, but they work perfectly. They are 1 1/2" electrical pvc, will hold any rod I've got.

Let me know if you want more info.

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
We worked another long hot day today, and made our goal of coating the interior with a final sealing coat of epoxy. At least I think it's final, if I don't get to sanding on something else :help:

Image

I think she's ready for primer now :D Sam says paint it, he's done with the heat too.

Image

Also made the cutouts for the steering head on the console, and the control cables on the motorwell side, and the bilge pump thru-hull, and drilled for the fuel filter bolts. We epoxied all the new holes too.

Thunderstorm came in and cooled things down a little. We needed some rain, sure feels good 8)

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:50 pm
by wegcagle
All that good lookin wood, almost seems a shame to paint it :D The thunderstorm you were referring to must be the same one that stopped me short today as well. I can't imagine anyone would want a prebuilt boat after looking at your's. ~^

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:17 pm
by TomW
Larry, she is looking georgeous. A more epoxied boat there can't be, she'll last you forever. Keep up the primer on how to do it right.

Tom

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
All that good lookin wood, almost seems a shame to paint it
That's what my wife keeps telling me, but I know the pain of trying to keep it looking good for years to come :help: It's just not in my nature to maintain brightwork. Build it once, build it right and forget about it. Just use it and wash it.

I'm heading to Augusta on Saturday, Clark Hill Lake actually, for a family reunion. How's the water level in the lake? We'll be at Modoc, SC.
Larry, she is looking georgeous.


Thanks Tom. It's coming together now. I think I might put one more coat of epoxy on her in the morning. In some spots I had sanded to bare wood, so it wouldn't hurt to have 2 in those places. Got to wait a couple of days to prime it anyway and I'll be out of town the weekend, so I think I'll give it one more coat then let her cook until Monday. I've still got 3 gallons of epoxy in reserve, don't think I'll need them :lol: It only takes about 8 ounces to coat the whole interior and gunwales.

This would be a real good time for me to decide what color she's going to be :doh:

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:30 pm
by jayb01
Larry,
I cannot recall when I saw Clarks Hill anywhere near full pool within the last decade (Lake Thurmond for the misguided SC Politicians).

Corp says it 10' low http://water.sas.usace.army.mil/home/indexDU.htm

You could always go up to Lake Russel, it's only 1' down and shouldn't be too far away (35 miles or so).


Boat looks great, but that top cap and inside/outside edge sure would look purdy left bright (you could always paint later).

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:45 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:
All that good lookin wood, almost seems a shame to paint it
This would be a real good time for me to decide what color she's going to be :doh:
CL, looks great :!: Maybe a touch of green would be appropriate. Even if only in the boot stripe or lettering.

Snapper fishing next weekend. Going way north, I hope the dang sharks aren't onto my plan :wink:

AA

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:16 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Jay and Richard :D
Snapper fishing next weekend. Going way north, I hope the dang sharks aren't onto my plan


I went to a seafood market with Salt Ponder the other day, Red Snapper was $16.95 a pound 8O Good luck! I figure the sharks will eat about $1,000 worth :lol:
Maybe a touch of green would be appropriate.
We've made a slight name change. She'll now be the Allie G so green won't be necessary.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:54 am
by gk108
I bought a can of Bainbridge White for my interior, but it's a little lighter than I think I want it to be. Now I'm considering getting a can of Vashon Gray and do a 50/50 mix. Anyway, if you want to keep it simple, white gunwales and console, light gray everywhere else. That will keep the glare down. San Juan Tan would be an alternative to gray for that. About anything else would be too dark and hot or too bright and blinding.

Are you sure you don't want anything bright finished? I have some left over odds and ends of mahogany if you want some. :D

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:13 am
by jgroves
Larry,
Boats looking great! I'm sure your looking forward to the maiden voyage.
I would go with a light gray for non slip surfaces. White shows dirt easily and you probably know well that non slip is a magnet for dirt. I have a friend with gray and it hides scuff marks and keeps glare down.
Keep up the good work and stay cool.
Jeremy

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:18 am
by Cracker Larry
Gary, yes that's my thinking also. It's got to be cool and glare free, so I'm thinking a light gray interior. I've already bought a gallon of light gray Kiwi Grip, so that's pretty much set. It's the exterior that's causing me troubles :doh:

I do plan on some trim in the cockpit to be bright, so I could use a little mahogany. I was planning on going to Charleston next week and do some teak and mahogany shopping 8)

Jeremy, thanks. Seems we're all on the same color scheme for the interior :lol:

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:23 am
by Betowess
Cracker Larry wrote: We've made a slight name change. She'll now be the Allie G so green won't be necessary.
Ditto the congrats on plus 100 pages of great stuff, Larry. :D

I read back a few pages where someone was writing A.G. and I couldn't make myself go searching through 100 pages to find out what it referred to - so I'm glad you reminded me of the name. And are you putting a 90 2 stroke on her?

I was pondering if you were going to slap some good ole Skid no More on your third build, I figured with all that sanding you were planning on something a little more fancy this time. I sure like that Skid no More, just the same. Can't wait to see AG float! regards, bob

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:31 am
by bushmaster
Looking great Larry. Are you going to paint this beauty or leave it as is?

Bushmaster

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:37 am
by Old E.
Looks awesome, Larry. Where are you located, in GA?

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:02 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:48 pm
by wegcagle
I'm heading to Augusta on Saturday, Clark Hill Lake actually, for a family reunion. How's the water level in the lake? We'll be at Modoc, SC.
I was out there this past weekend trying to get into some hybrids/stripers and it was about 10' down (which is about average). It's been fluctuating between about 9'-12' down depending on how aggressive the corp is on that day. Modoc's a good looking area. Some of the best views on the lake in my opinion.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK :!: I've just finished applying the last epoxy she needs 8) We gave all the new holes another coat, all the sanded spots another coat, and then mixed a few batches with grey pigment and gave all 10 lockers their last coat.

Nothing left but primer, paint and rigging :D
larry love the boat and the reason for the name, but ali g?
Thanks, but I could have got by just fine without seeing that :( :D
Where are you located, in GA?
I'm about 30 miles N. of Savannah on the Savannah River. It's the GA/ SC border.
Are you going to paint this beauty or leave it as is?


Thanks BM. I'm going to paint it.
I was pondering if you were going to slap some good ole Skid no More on your third build,
Thanks Bob. It is great stuff, but hard to apply uniformly. I wanted this boat to be more yacht than work boat, if there is such a thing as an 18' yacht :doh: So I'm trying the Kiwi Grip on her. I saw Joel do it and he made it look easy, but I'm sure it won't go as smoothly for me.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
And are you putting a 90 2 stroke on her?
I think so, but don't tell Jacques :wink:

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:55 pm
by Old E.
Cracker Larry wrote:
I'm about 30 miles N. of Savannah on the Savannah River. It's the GA/ SC border.
I hunt in S. GA... near the big swamp. In fact I'm headed up there tomorrow, to do some things. If you were in the general area, I would have loved to stop by and check her out.

Keep up the good work!!

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sorry, Old E, but I'll be in Augusta tomorrow. Will be home on Sunday if you're still around. No, take that back, Dori says I'm shrimping on Sunday. Want to go shrimping?

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:21 pm
by Old E.
Thanks for the invite, but I'm out. That's a little further than I was going. :?

I'll be south of Waycross.

Hope y'all have some good luck with the skrimps!

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:04 pm
by peter-curacao
cape man wrote:
Peter, have had Polar, and agree with your description. About like a Corona from Mexico. If I ever land in Curacao, I'll bring you several BBBs.
That would be great cape man, I take you fishing then :lol:

Peter

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Another weeks' work, another minor milestone, and I think the worst is behind us now :D We made another pass with some filler, and some more sanding, and some more epoxy, and more sanding....trying to get it good nuff to prime. Been working on this for 2 weeks now :help:

It becomes frustrating, we get on the "last" coat of resin, then of course we have to sand it before we can prime over. So without fail I'll sand a spot down to the wood. Which has to have more epoxy, and more sanding, then you do it again :? I think it's a plot to sell us epoxy :wink:

Anyway, we perservered and was finally able to get her to satisfaction. This was helped by retiring the RO and only hand sanding the last coats. Started with 80 grit and worked it down to 120. And then one more time we washed her out with the hose, and washed down the area.

Sam gave it a good inspection this morning and said prime it, so we did :D I really like this new S3 Yacht Primer. It is a pleasure to apply and has very good coverage. I was pleasantly surprised at how well one coat performed.

Image

We were also pleased with our fairing job :D 2 weeks of working at it paid off. It's not perfect but it's not bad. A couple of spots could use a little more help, but all in all, good nuff 8)

Image

Sam is very proud of it, anyway...

Image

For the record, this took 1 1/2 quarts of primer to cover the rubrails to the sole and the console We applied it with 4" foam cigar style rollers. A lot of them, they wear out fast. Used 16 rollers for this one coat 8O .

Tomorrow we'll give it another coat, then go shrimping. :D

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:24 pm
by cedarock
Looks great Larry!

I liked using the yacht primer too. I went through a bunch of the foam covers as well and eventually bought a pack of the whizz multi-purpose 6" covers from Lowes that is good for all paints. They are closed on the end which did well in the corners....almost like a mop. They lasted through a couple of cleanings and then would start to leave a piece of fuzz or two but were much more cost effective!

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks CR. Yours is also coming along nicely 8)

I get these rollers from Lowes also and they are closed on the ends. I think they are labeled as Door and Cabinet rollers. They won't last even until one cleaning though. About 10 minutes each. First they get real floppy, then they either start shedding bits of foam, or the foam separates from the core and falls off. But they do a nice job and work good in the corners. There is a lot of corners in this boat.

I do hate it that they don't last longer. Bad enough having to buy all the rollers, but I think a lot of the primer/paint gets wasted because of it too.

were the ones you used foam?

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:44 pm
by cedarock
I started using the foam door and cabinet covers for the primer because they work great with the s3 paint. However, my primer was going through them just as you have experienced! The multi-purpose covers are more like the traditional nap covers and have a yellow strip ( I think...might be orange) spiralling down the cover. They are labelled mult-purpose on a package of 6. I bought one package and finished with a couple to spare. I will go get them and take a pic!

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:57 pm
by cedarock
Here you go! I liked them with the primer.

Image

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Great, thanks :D I'll give those a try next. Which do you like best for the top coats?

I had to make an emergency trip to Lowes earlier this afternoon to re-supply rollers. Wished we had this conversation sooner :lol: I just bought 24 more.

Lowes is 20 miles one way, but if I get a coat on once a day I don't have to sand between coats. So I wanted to make sure I had enough for another couple of coats. I'd rather drive the 40 miles than have to sand her again :lol:

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:22 pm
by michaelk
Home depot sells a pack of this style roller labeled for "adhesives". They're pink, I think with a 1/4 or 3/16" nap. I haven't had any problem with them disintegrating. I've used them with the S3 high-build primer, S3 topcoat, straight epoxy and xylene thinned epoxy for pre-treating the plywood (and the epoxy with the copper powder). I believe the brand is "roller-lite". These are not foam. I've never had any luck with foam rollers, so I stay away from them.

-Mike

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:24 pm
by cedarock
I seem to make 2-3 emergency trips to Lowes per day but I have the convenience of it being a couple of miles away and that is dangerous! :)

For the topcoat, I used the foam door and cabinet covers with S3 paint (tipped) for the fs12 and HM19. They seem to work great for that and can be washed over and over with that paint. I changed covers every once in a while just for the sake of changing covers, thinking that a new one might be a tad smoother!

I haven't tried the multi-purpose covers on the topcoat, because I thought that it might apply it a little heavy and also because I had good luck with the foam ones on the fs12.

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:49 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Allie G is really looking great. I have been off of the build circuit due to some family situations, so I enjoy watching all of the superb builds going on now.
I tried the Whizz type of rollers on the last glass that i had to lay, and it really did a great job with wetting the cloth. Hope to get back at it tomorrow and get something done.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:19 pm
by Bayport_Bob
I've found that if you lighten the pressure you put on the Whizz style rollers that they last much, much longer. No need to press very hard with these - let the roller do the work.

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the roller advice all.

Robbie, hope the family is all OK :!:

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:33 am
by robbiro
Larry, Yea they are all fine, the situations are starting back to school (parent orientations to new teachers, etc.), trips to the in-laws, birthday parties (right now there are four eight year old boys buildingLegos in my living room after an overnight sleep over) and a party that we threw for a co-worker that is leaving to go back to school and the house needed a good going over before we had guests :oops: :oops: .
I hear my RO callin me this morning. I think after breakfast will be the time to get back in the swing of it.'

'Keep on Buildin"

Robbie

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:39 pm
by PastorBob
Lowes is 20 miles one way,
I am now 90 Miles one way 8O ....

Boat is looking Great Larry!

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:43 pm
by Betowess
Whoo, she looks terrific - like production terrific. :D

Larry, I really liked the all white - without the yellow stripe - Whizz rollers (4 inch) high density foam which I got at Lowes. Used them for S3 Satin Clear and they worked great for that. They sold them in the six pack. Maybe that is what you were already using.

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:35 pm
by TomW
Larry boat looks great. I guess Pastor Bob has us beat on the trip to Lowe's its only 40 miles one way for me. :doh:

Tom

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Pastor Bob :!: Thanks. Good to hear from you 8) Wow, 90 miles to Lowes. Does that help or hurt the budget? Is everything good with you?
like production terrific.
Thanks! I don't know about that, but I'm satisfied.
Maybe that is what you were already using.
Yes, that what I've been using, they are Whizz 4" foam. I generally like them, they just don't hold up well with the primer.
its only 40 miles one way for me.
Yeah Tom, he 's got me beat by a long ways, you've got a good ride yourself :lol:

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:50 pm
by slump67
Hey Larry - boat is looking great - you mentioned that you are going shrimping. Please enlighten this old Connecticut Yankee, how do you catch them, net? - wire trap? - spear? - depth charge?

shrimpingly yours,

Al

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:25 pm
by topwater
cl the boat is looking great. its all starting to come togeather now.
it will be a lot of fun when you start slapping the stainless on.

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
I appreciate all the compliments :D TW, can't wait to start bolting on hardware. Just got to get past this painting. I'm not a painter :| But we did get 2 more coats of primer on today. Used a full gallon on the inside now and she looks pretty good.

Al, we catch the shrimp with nets in the salt marsh creeks and rivers. Cast nets mostly, but sometimes drag nets. The cast nets are circular, 10 or 12 feet or so in diameter with a weighted perimeter. You sort of throw and spin it like a frisbee to spread it out. Then you haul it back in. It's designed to tuck up and trap the shrimp, or fish. There is a 48 quarts per day limit.

See http://www.excaliburcastnets.com/ if you aren't familiar with cast nets.

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:39 pm
by michaelk
It's kind of sickening around here. I've got 3 home depots and 2 lowes to chose from. Home Depot's at 5, 12 and 30 miles. Lowes at 5 and 30 miles. The 2 Lowes stores are both within sight from the Home Depot Parking lots.

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:28 am
by cape man
Would you please stop making that boat look so nice!! :lol: :lol:

Bet you can taste it at this point...

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:57 am
by ks8
Happy sanding... again. Except for the wet sanding (?), this is it, isn't it? 8)

I'm still thinking you may launch before I do.

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:35 am
by TomW
Well you have reached a milepost again. One last sanding down to 220 or 320 for the Topcoat and your on your way to the final step. Putting on the hardware and the motor. Hurrah :!:

You'll do fine on the topcoat, you might want to take a look at the Sterling colors I found mine there, at least what I plan right now anyway. SWMBO hasn't seen them so don't know if they will be the final ones yet. They say the Sterling goes on better than the S3 rolling and tipping.

Now go catch some shrimps while the primer cures! :D

Tom

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
They say the Sterling goes on better than the S3 rolling and tipping.
Jeeeez......I reckon, have you priced that stuff :help: Some colors are almost $300 a gallon :!: :!: For that much money a gallon should come with 2 experienced laborers and all application equipment. And I'd expect them to wet sand it too :lol:

Caught a lot of shrimp today, just ate a lot for supper 8)

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:53 am
by TomW
Oh, yeah I forgot. Your retired now and got to save your pennies for the old timers home! :P :lol: Glad you got your shrimps!

Tom

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:20 am
by cape man
For that much money a gallon should come with 2 experienced laborers and all application equipment. And I'd expect them to wet sand it too
Totally agree. Seems it is one of those "boat" prices. What the heck could they possibly put in a gallon can that makes it truly worth that much money? A gallon of the finest rum wouldn't cost that much! 8)

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:44 am
by Cracker Larry
I don't know what's in it, but I'm sure I could screw it up. With my lack of painting skills I can mess up an expensive paint job just as well as a more reasonably priced one :lol:

Here is how she looks now, with 3 coats of primer...

Image

Image

Image

I'm fairly satisfied with most of it, but even after all this, there are a few spots that need further attention with QF. The primer really shows you what needs more work. Oh well, in for a penny in for a pound. I reckon I'll do a little more filling before we paint her.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:58 am
by TomW
Cracker Larry wrote:I don't know what's in it, but I'm sure I could screw it up. With my lack of painting skills I can mess up an expensive paint job just as well as a more reasonably priced one :lol:
Me too just don't want to admit I can be beat by a simple thing like paint after doin' all the hard work of getting to that point. And dang it I don't want to settle for the colors S3 have. :(

Tom

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:14 am
by Cracker Larry
S3 will custom mix colors for you.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:36 am
by mecreature
Looks great Larry..

Tell sam we said hi..

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:53 am
by WobblyLegs
Larry, you going fishing with torpedoes? It looks like an MTB from here with all that grey ;)

Looking good!

Tim.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:58 am
by Spokaloo
You better be careful Larry.


If you keep this up, your going to have two boats! Not just a boat and a project.


E

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:23 pm
by TomW
Cracker Larry wrote:S3 will custom mix colors for you.
Yea but that makes it about as expensive as Sterling, I think it is $100-150 a gallon for custom colors. I may go with Kirby and cover with S3 clear. See no harm in that.

Oh well off to town :lol:

Tom

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:50 pm
by Bayport_Bob
Unless you plan on painting inside a temp & humidity controlled environment (or wait until 65 deg weather with 80% humidity), I would look at products other than S3 topcoat. Their WR-LPU topcoat needs to be re-engineered like they did the new Yacht primer to make it much, much easier to apply and get good, consistent results. Unless you really enjoy wet sanding and polishing.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:08 pm
by tech_support
Bob really likes the S3 paint :)

I do agree with him that its not the most simple thing to apply. Temperature seems to be especially Sensitive. But relative to the similar alternative paints (relative to cost and eases of application) it gives good results.

I painted a sunfish boat this past week in my garage - it was over 90 degrees. The paint worked just fine for me. Orcas white on top and Fox Orange on the sides. I rolled and tipped with just water as the reducer. (I did notice the label says not to apply over 90 degrees.) It laid out perfectly with no runs, but there was a definite loss of gloss.

I took some pictures and I will post them from home.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:24 pm
by Bayport_Bob
shine wrote:Bob really likes the S3 paint :)
Well, given the amount time & sweat a lot of people put into their builds, it can be an incredible disappointment when your the paint job ends up looking like a barn painted with a mop because of the way the paint behaves. I'm just trying to save as many people that disappointment and extra labor, when a great quality paint isn't that much more pricey in the grand scheme of things.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:57 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry I can't see anything wrong your primer. It looks as good as my finished paint. You could probably make roof cement look good on the hull :!:

That said I had a Bayport Bob experience with my S3. I finally had to spray it to get it to work for me. I still had to buff it for 20 hours with rubbing compound to get a work boat finish, well maybe a little better than that. It was kind of a hard process for me.

CL, you will probably make it look easy no matter what you use...

Richard

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
CL, you will probably make it look easy no matter what you use...

Richard
I don't know, Richard :doh: I'm not a good painter and the only thing I've ever sprayed before is my shop so I'm a little scared of that.
I'm just trying to save as many people that disappointment and extra labor, when a great quality paint isn't that much more pricey in the grand scheme of things.


Bob has me worried about the S3 paint, but I've already ordered a gallon so we'll see how it goes I guess. I'll start with the insides and if the results aren't good we'll use Kiwi Grip as a fallback and maybe some Petit Easypoxy on the outside. I know it works well with roll and tip.

I'll plan the painting to start at sunrise when I can expect temps in the low 70s for a couple of hours. Humidity is no problem, we have lots of that.

I've worked too hard to screw it up now. And I sure am tired of sanding.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:46 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:I've worked too hard to screw it up now.
You have, and you won't!

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:35 pm
by TomW
Good plan Larry, inside first and cover it with KG if not happy. Then Outside with something your familiar with. I'm testing S3 on the Mirror myself, Camano Red. So will see. I really don't want to use Sterling for the obvious reason either but got to pull your chain a little. :D

Just take your time on this step. It is not the one to rush or have rain come in an hour after you paint etc. You will do your usual perfect job and it will be beautiful.

Tom

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:48 pm
by Spokaloo
Has anyone tested penetrol as a thinning treatment to the S3?

I have used it as a treatment (hard to call it a thinner, as it doesnt thin particularly, it just makes the paint flow out better. Lets call it a paint lubricant) in a few paints and loved how it flowed out. And NO, I didn't use it in the Interlux Brightsides ive been bitching about, maybe I should have.

E

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:07 pm
by TomW
Eric, I don't know if I would want to use Penetrol in S3 as it is water based and Penetrol is usually used in oil based paints. :doh: Don't know if any of the water based similar products would work similarly.

Tom

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:15 pm
by Bayport_Bob
Spokaloo wrote:Has anyone tested penetrol as a thinning treatment to the S3? E
I contacted S3 tech support when I was painting my hull with that very question...

"Can Floetrol or XIM Extender be used with System Three LPU topcoat to aid in flow and leveling? "

S3 Tech Support:"You can't use either extender. Thin WR-LPU Topcoat about 20%+/- with distilled water for brushing."

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:18 pm
by Spokaloo
Interesting. It worked in latex for some reason.

Well, throw that out the window then!

E

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:26 pm
by gk108
Larry, that's a lot of nooks and crannies to just jump in and learn how to spray S3. Somewhere in their lit they mention that the paint was formulated for HVLP spraying and you can get good results that way. You can also get incredibly huge sags and runs that way. Sunrise roll & tip sessions will give you good results, just make sure the sun is going to rise and not some big black cloud.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:34 pm
by cape man
Larry,

Looking at the pics of your priming job, I'd put whatever you want on in thin coats and bet it will be gorgeous. Fantastic fairing job. My muscles hurt just looking at it! Interesting discussion on the paint. I'm months away from top coating, so once again will learn from your success and/or ... well from your success. 8)

Do have to say that Chicagoross' boat is looking pretty sharp with Guam-available paint :idea: I am going to be checking into the locally available 2-part epoxy paint that we use at work (~$26/gallon) with a UV inhibitor mixed with it or over the top. Will make a 2X2 test sheet and see what it looks like on top of a well faired epoxy coat. Richard recommended putting a piece of duck tape on it for several days after it cures and see if it moves when you rip the tape up :?:

Looks like Fay aint going to be much here but some rain, which we need. Too many Yankees (sorry guys :lol: ) sucking water outa the ground down here. Despite an above normal yearly total, our aquifers are still below average. 18 million people! Ugh.

May just go out tonight and put some new graphite/epoxy on the boat and forget about it all. :lol:

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:46 pm
by TomW
Cape man that sounds like good news our forecast is now for Fay to come up and give us some rain in the Mountains. But who knows what she will do in the next five days. We need her to do her thing here we are back to our drought conditions from last year and the rivers are at the lowest flow levels since they started recording back in 1895.

Tom

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:30 pm
by cedarock
Larry, Your primer job looks great! I used s3 in these hot temperatures. I tried to paint early but got caught in the middle of the day putting the last coats of the inside and outside. I found as it gets hotter, thin more! You can still see a few places where I missed the tip because you have to be real quick to tip or it will dry, but I would use s3 again because of its user friendly nature.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, that's a lot of nooks and crannies to just jump in and learn how to spray S3.
My thoughts exactly Gary. I've pondered it considerable and there is good possibility I'll screw it up either way. Probably more so spraying. But those nooks and crannies may be easier to spray than to roll and tip :?: :help: I don't know :doh:
Larry, Your primer job looks great! I used s3 in these hot temperatures.
Thanks for the encouragement, CR :D It seems like some people at least get good results.
My muscles hurt just looking at it! Interesting discussion on the paint. I'm months away from top coating, so once again will learn from your success and/or ... well from your success. Cool
Craig, my muscles quit hurting about a week ago. Now they're just numb.

Success, that's right :wink: That's the only acceptable ending. The only question is how long a journey it will take to achieve it :lol:

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:38 pm
by Hope2float
Larry

For what it is worth. Keep gun perpendicular to surface being sprayed. Don't use a fan motion or the paint will be thin on ends and heavy in the center. On large areas begin to shoot paint before entering surface to be painted. this will allow control of motion before actually painting surface or you will risk a starting blop. It will also clear gun of any spits before you reach surface. As far as tight areas shoot quickly and at a distance as to not allow paint to blow back. Remember less is more. Shoot a little then take a look. If the gun has a material flow control reduce material flow for better control. Let the area sprayed flash over a bit before applying more this will help in controling runs. Slow and steady motions are key to good results on large areas. Most important is to keep moving. If you stop for just a second you will have a run. You should cover about 1 linear foot per second Good luck

Dave

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:46 pm
by Aripeka Angler
cedarock wrote: I would use s3 again because of its user friendly nature.
You must be a professional painter or got a good batch of paint :D


I would spray it if you have the equipment to do so.

AA

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dave, thanks, those sound like good spraying tips. You got to realize that I know nothing about spraying though.

I would spray it if you have the equipment to do so.
Richard, what equipment would I need to do a decent job? I know almost nothing about spray painting, but maybe it's time to learn :doh:

I've got a Wagner power sprayer, it's all electric, no compressed air, and feeds from a cup or a siphon hose to a paint can. That's what I sprayed my shop with, using stain. Did good on T-111 siding. Would this work?

And I've got a small compressor, 10 gallon tank size. About 90 psi but not a lot of CFMs. Should I get a particular gun type for this? Pictures or links welcome, I'm spray painting ignorant unless it's in an aerosol can.

Maybe I should get out of my comfort zone and learn how to spray it :?

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:26 am
by TomW
Larry, I'd go with the Wagner. It's more controlable than a pressure sprayer and easier to use. I've used both and have graduated to a full blown HVLP system which is the best of both worlds. But the Wagner is closer to it.

Tom

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:16 am
by Aripeka Angler
I used a Capspray HVLP turbine with a Graco gun. It worked well for me. It is a self-contained rig that makes it's own air. I didn't have to disconnect the heater as I sprayed my boat in 75 degree weather. I think I paid about 400 bucks for the rig.

I don't know how much air your compressor puts out but a really good HVLP cup gun might work. I use Binks guns at the shop but never did a study on CFM because I have a pretty good sized air compressor. You would need to pick a gun and see if the CFM requirements match your compressor.

I think the main reason roll and tip I suggested around here is the safety issue. A good 30 dollar NIOSH respirator will take care of any safety concerns.

All this said, there were some nice roll and tip paint jobs at the CR meet. It just didn't work for me with the high gloss paint. I will eventually build another boat and I will be spraying it as well...

Good luck Larry. As I said before no matter how you do it , I am sure you will do just fine :D

Richard

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:41 am
by michaelk
My vote is for the Wagner. With the High humidity, I would be worried about introducing too much water into the system if you're using a compressor. Definately do a test application before aiming it at the boat. Maybe there's a section of fence that needs to be the same color? :D

My own Wagner sprayer is patiently waiting up on a shelf in the garage. Maybe I'll have a job for it soon? :)

-Mike

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:23 am
by gk108
I wasn't trying to discourage you from spraying. I've sprayed probably a hundred gallons of alkyd oil base, 1 & 2 part PU and acrylic paints with high and low pressure rigs. The S3 acts so different that it was like learning all over again. It took a few coats to get comfortable and figure out how to prevent runs and still get a nice finish. I'd be planning on spraying the inside of my V10 except that the two tone paint and brightwork divides it up into a bunch of small areas that make masking and spraying a real task.

We have to learn new skills to do this boatbuilding thing and learning to spray a good paint job would be another skill to learn. I bought a Wagner Fine Mist HVLP sprayer when I built my canoe. Cost around $100 and it does a decent job. The white on my D15 was applied with it, also. I started spraying, but sudden rain shower right after the last coat of S3 white on the bottom of my V10 spoiled what would have been a very good looking final coat. A little sanding and roll & tip S3 clear over the white and it looks great. I put the first few feet of hose in a bucket of icewater to cool the air before it gets to the gun. That makes a big difference with the S3. Without cooling the air, the paint actually dries in the stream before it hits the surface. That gives you a grainy finish that you have to sand before the next coat.

If you buy a sprayer, just practice on something other than the boat first. Get that "robot arm" method working so that you start your sweep, then pull the trigger and release it before you stop the sweep and change directions. Practice precise overlaps of your sweeps so that you don't have to back up to make a pass on a thin area between sweeps. With the S3, try to not go back at all to get the best finish. For me, vertical sweeps on vertical surfaces result in less runs.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the advice. :D I've re-evaluated my situation and have decided to try and spray it. I don't want brush marks, so that is the only good option
I wasn't trying to discourage you from spraying. I've sprayed probably a hundred gallons of alkyd oil base, 1 & 2 part PU and acrylic paints with high and low pressure rigs. The S3 acts so different that it was like learning all over again.
Well GK, since I don't know anything about spraying anything, except for some stain one time, and many an aerosol can, I at least won't have to un-learn anything :lol: I've learned a lot so far, I can learn this too.

It just might take a few tries and some extra sanding :doh:

I've got some specific questions but I'll ask them in the Paint section.
I'm wide open for all advice.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:03 pm
by Bayport_Bob
Or...

If you're going to spend money on more equipment just to paint your boat, you could invest it in a high quality, easy to apply paint system instead! :lol:

I applied Sterling with a pack of $7 foam rollers and a $15 badger hair brush. 2 quarts of base (New Hatteras White), Brushing Catalyst, and Brushing Reducer would put 3 coats inside (cockpit) & out on my F18. All the components mixed make a gallon of topcoat ready to apply. I paid ~$250/gal for my batch Sterling vs. the $120/gal for S3 - along with ~$100 for wet/dry sandpaper plus polishing compounds. So in the end the Sterling was nearly the same cost and about 100 man hours less in labor to get a near production quality finish.

Given the amount of time in my failed S3 attempt and the amount of money in buying 2 paints systems, I'd pay somebody to professionally paint it if I could do it over again.

Just my opinion & everybody's got one. :lol:

I forgot to add the $15 gallon of MEK for Sterling cleanup.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:25 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Bayport_Bob wrote:Or...

If you're going to spend money on more equipment just to paint your boat, you could invest it in a high quality, easy to apply paint system instead! :lol:
So in the end the Sterling was nearly the same cost and about 100 man hours less in labor to get a near production quality finish.

Just my opinion & everybody's got one. :lol:
Bob, I got a totally different report from Ken Owens on Sterling paint. He painted the black XF-20 with the stuff. I am sure he will notice CL'S thread in the paint section. He said it sucked. I guess that illustrates the broad range of results that builders get in the painting process. :doh:


AA

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Just my opinion & everybody's got one.


Bob, I really appreciate the advice and time may prove you right. I am not discounting your opinion. But I've already bought enough paint for the interior. We'll see how that goes and possibly change paints for the outside.
I'd pay somebody to professionally paint it
Heck, I could have paid someone to professionally build it too, but now I'm a professional. I'll be semi-pro with paint before I'm finished :lol:

I have a friend with a car painting booth. He'd do it for me, but then I would lose all bragging rights and wouldn't learn anything 8)

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:42 pm
by michaelk
Cracker Larry wrote:I have a friend with a car painting booth. He'd do it for me, but then I would lose all bragging rights 8)
Maybe you could just use the booth. :D

-Mike

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:43 pm
by Gramps
michaelk wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote:I have a friend with a car painting booth. He'd do it for me, but then I would lose all bragging rights 8)
Maybe you could just use the booth. :D

-Mike
And his paint gun's! I'm sure he could teach ya some tricks.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:57 pm
by dborecky
Sterling is some great stuff if you read and use only the Sterling products. My problem was my very dust filled garage. The paint went on like a dream. I followed the directions exactly as per the roll and tip instructions on this web site. I just ended up with lots of dust in the paint...

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
michaelk wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote:
I have a friend with a car painting booth. He'd do it for me, but then I would lose all bragging rights


Maybe you could just use the booth.

-Mike


And his paint gun's! I'm sure he could teach ya some tricks.
He's never sprayed S3 LPU either :doh: He's an Awl-Grip/ Imron painter.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:07 pm
by Bayport_Bob
Aripeka Angler wrote: Bob, I got a totally different report from Ken Owens on Sterling paint. He painted the black XF-20 with the stuff. I am sure he will notice CL'S thread in the paint section. He said it sucked. AA
And Ken spray painted his other boats with Imron if I recall.

I'm sure there's plenty of references with people complaining about Awlgrip even though it's probably on more boats than any other paint system made.

My point is, that if you following the manufacturers directions exactly, and practice on similar surfaces to your final project that you should be able to get a "good" finish and be able to repeat those results on the next coat. My experience (and many others) doesn't result in a good finish after practicing with it, contacting their tech support, nor trying a design of experiments on dilution volumes, roller material, brush types, painted area before tipping, humidity control, temp control, & on & on.

My only hope is that S3 reads some of their customer's negative comments and decides to re-engineer or reformulate their topcoat so it is much more user friendly in a way that an average person can get good, repeatable results. It seems to have worked for their new primer.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
My problem was my very dust filled garage.
Derrick, I can understand how that may cause a problem 8O

Image

:lol:

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:18 pm
by michaelk
Bayport_Bob wrote:My point is, that if you following the manufacturers directions exactly, and practice on similar surfaces to your final project that you should be able to get a "good" finish and be able to repeat those results on the next coat. My experience (and many others) doesn't result in a good finish after practicing with it, contacting their tech support, nor trying a design of experiments on dilution volumes, roller material, brush types, painted area before tipping, humidity control, temp control, & on & on.
As with all of these materials, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). It's all in the hands of the applicator (you). Seeing the project up to this point, It would be an understatement to say that those hands are rather skillful.

As with anything, practice makes perfect. Your first passes with the sprayer may be so-so, but the plan for doing the sole first, then rolling over it with the kiwigrip is a good one. No better way to cover up the first tries. Once you get that practice out of the way, you'll be an expert in one more skill and much more comfortable with the process.

-Mike

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Mike :D I needed the confidence booster 8)

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:24 pm
by michaelk
Cracker Larry wrote:Thank you Mike :D I needed the confidence booster 8)
I'll be ordering a gallon of the kiwi grip too! :wink:

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:47 pm
by cape man
Man you guys are scaring the crap outa me!!! :lol: :lol:

Will be watching with MUCH interest Larry. Harbor Freight has a self contained HPLV spayer for ~$90 that I was looking at the other day, but decided I'd rather try and roll and tip. Like you, it's the idea of learning how to do something that got me in this to start with. Why not try a test piece of both methods and see what you like best? My money's on the roll and tip method given your skills at laminating and fairing.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Man you guys are scaring the crap outa me!!!
Craig, I'd never admit to being scared but they certainly have me concerned :wink:

I'll figure it out, then I'll come down and help you with yours. Ice down the beer :lol:

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:28 pm
by cape man
I'll figure it out, then I'll come down and help you with yours. Ice down the beer
Deal. Will definitely need a new batch by then! :roll:

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:47 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:
Man you guys are scaring the crap outa me!!!
I'll figure it out, then I'll come down and help you with yours. Ice down the beer :lol:
Make sure to bring some shrimp to catch bait with....

Richard

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
You got it 8)

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:56 pm
by gk108
Craig, don't let it scare you too much. After all was said and done on the bottom of my V10, it's the best finish I've put on a boat so far.

Just remember, proper surface preparation is vital to a good finish.
Image
:D

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
GK, I can't stop laughing :lol:

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:11 am
by jayb01
These guys liked the results of S3 in S3 Orcas white on the sole(s)

Image

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:25 am
by Cracker Larry
That picture reminds me why I have dogs instead of more children.

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:28 am
by TomW
GK I'm with Larry, that is hillarious. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jay hope you paid 'em by the hour and not by the quantity put on :lol: Great pic :!:

Tom

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:11 am
by cape man
Just remember, proper surface preparation is vital to a good finish.
That is so weird that you found that picture. I left the barn door open, had a Opossom get stuck in the second coat of graphite epoxy on the bottom of my boat. Tried 60 grit, but had to use the grinder...

Start painting soon Larry, or this thread may just go to Hell in a Handbasket! :lol:

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:13 am
by Cracker Larry
I think it's gone :P

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:16 am
by cape man
Just saw where you were getting a pretty intense feeder band blasting through within the last hour. Hunker down. May want to temporarily install the plugs and a cleat to tie her off.

Seriously, hope everyone rides through this okay. We've had several tornadoes in Florida over the past few days, and the rainfall amounts are on the ridiculous side of things.

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Craig, getting ugly here for sure. I have put in the plugs and tied her off already. They are now predicting up to 30" of rain. Looks like the Central coast of FL is taking a bad flooding :(

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:29 pm
by ks8
This is not the way to splash Joel's FS17....

The servers are apparently still high and dry and running. :)

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:00 pm
by plumbertuck
Hang in there Larry, I'm thinking about ya'

Tuck

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
We're fine here Tuck, thanks. Got some good boats :wink: And a generator 8)

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:33 pm
by stickystuff
Already one idiot here who bought two generators and tried them out inside his house. Now the idiot is dead. What the hell is wrong with people?

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:39 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
Nothing wrong.... natural selection I suppose...

I hope it's all right by you... We as Europeans we don't have so much experiences with tornados, hurricanes or violent storms... Good luck and come out without damages!

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep that happens around here about once or twice a year. Darwin at work. Get them out of the gene pool :lol:

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:10 pm
by Terry E Gustine
I'll trade one fire ( we still have 4 or 5 more than 2 months old ) for 5 inches of rain


T - Gus

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:34 pm
by michaelk
stickystuff wrote:Already one idiot here who bought two generators and tried them out inside his house. Now the idiot is dead. What the hell is wrong with people?
Didn't want to get the generator wet, I suppose. :doh: :doh: :doh:

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:52 am
by Cracker Larry
I'll trade one fire ( we still have 4 or 5 more than 2 months old ) for 5 inches of rain
I'm sorry Gus. We had the drought and fires last year, it was terrible. I'm with you, I'll take the rain. Hope things improve for your area, still pouring here, boats not floating yet though :D

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:24 am
by JimW
We had a young pair from Indiana who was visiting a friend here in Jax actually go in the water at the beach yesterday or the day before. Both guys went to the hospital one bad and the girl drowned. The waves just pounded the you know what out of them in washing machine fashion. A very sad ending.

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:01 pm
by Aripeka Angler
JimW wrote:We had a young pair from Indiana who was visiting a friend here in Jax actually go in the water at the beach yesterday or the day before. Both guys went to the hospital one bad and the girl drowned. The waves just pounded the you know what out of them in washing machine fashion. A very sad ending.
We had a crazy dude try to kite surf in the storm. I will try to post the link.

http://www.baynews9.com/VideoPlayer/?Kite_surfer_819

Richard

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Richard, we had a kite surfer killed yesterday at Tybee Island. The wind picked him up, carried him a few hundred yards down the beach then slam dunked him into the side of a condo 8O

I saw the same thing happen to one in Belize a couple of years ago. Those guys are crazier than I am :!:

Just watched the video :lol: Sad, but I have to laugh.

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:12 pm
by michaelk
Aripeka Angler wrote:We had a crazy dude try to kite surf in the storm. I will try to post the link.

http://www.baynews9.com/VideoPlayer/?Kite_surfer_819

Richard
That clip made our local news here in New Jersey. Darwin at work again?

-Mike

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:15 pm
by rjezuit
No Brain....No Pain?????

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:50 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:Richard, we had a kite surfer killed yesterday at Tybee Island. The wind picked him up, carried him a few hundred yards down the beach then slam dunked him into the side of a condo 8O

I saw the same thing happen to one in Belize a couple of years ago. Those guys are crazier than I am :!:
No Larry they are not crazier than you are, they are stupid. Crazy is something you can live with, stupid is usually fatal.I have been accused of being crazy a few times myself :wink:

Any chance of painting this weekend? I didn't know you were going to be spraying your boat when you were down here last month. I have a nice air cooler and drier you might be interested in.

Richard

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'd say no chance of painting this weekend. If it ever quits raining I'll need to get the primer sanded and prepped, so it will probably be next week.

I'll probably make a shrimping trip as soon as the weather breaks also. These storms always push the big ocean shrimp up into the creeks in massive numbers.

Tell me about the cooler and drier?
I didn't you were going to be spraying your boat when you were down here last month
Neither did I :doh:

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:44 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry I sent you an email about the air dryer.

Richard

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's awesome Richard! Makes a bucket of ice water seem a bit pioneerish.

We're stepping up in the spraying world KS :D

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
We finally got a break in the rain yesterday afternoon for a few hours and I was able to get some sanding done on the 3rd coat of primer. Again this morning and got her done.

Unfortunately though, I was a little too heavy of hand with the 220 grit :( and sanded through the primer, again, in quite a few spots. I'm having a hard time with this, especially the edges.

Image

But plenty on the flat spots too :doh:

Image

So we cleaned this good, again, and spot primed about 50 spots, again. And I guess I'll try to sand it lightly, more lightly, again. And if I sand through the primer again....

I ponder which would be better, putting topcoat on spots with no primer, or putting topcoat on spots of unsanded primer :doh:


Speaking of primers, remember I said I was using a foam roller every 10 minutes with the new S3 yacht primer? I ran out of the new primer, but had some of the old leftover from last year. I used it for all the spot priming today and I used the same roller for over an hour. Washed it out for re-use when I was finished. There is obviously a big difference in these primers.

I hope it's OK that I put the old type primer over the new. Seems like it should be if it's cured :?:

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:22 pm
by dborecky
Larry,

I found that when I put a light dusting of guide coat and used just the weight of the sander I was able to avoid sanding through the primer. As soon as the guide coat is gone, stop sanding. If you need more primer at that point, then you can apply it and put another light dusting of the guide coat....

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:32 pm
by steve292
Larry, I don't know if this is what you are doing,but what I did was to sand the edges by hand with a flexible pad first. I did all the final sanding of the outside hull with 320 by hand with the pad. I did paint one small spot(2" or so) with the topcoat & it seems to be alright. As long as you don't go through the epoxy seal I would think you would get away with it in some small spots,though I am no expert by any means.
Boat looks great BTW, I am sure your painting will do it justice.
Good luck,
Steve.

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:37 pm
by ks8
I've said it before... normally I wouldn't want any less tooth than 220, as per app notes on the can, but on a sharp radius, maybe just a light scratching with 320 by hand, by scratching I mean I wouldn't leave any shine on the cured primer, but scratch it all with a light touch with 320 by hand.

I went through primer in a few spots on the drip lip of the underside of the rubrails. Topcoat covered it fine, Orcas White, with three coats, Then three coats clear (something to wet sand down smooth). When you know you have a nice fair and smooth substrate (primer), there is less stress when you start sanding a not quite perfect paint job. Runs should sand down without cutting back into primer, if you built up enough mils. I'm even tempted to sand it all a bit fair again (kill the orange peel) and give a final two coats of clear. The ideal for the LPU is a consistent application that makes one skin of covering. I'm not going too crazy (though I almost did) because the bug factor kicked in. When you don't have a filtered spray booth, you just aim at a good covering, and maybe some wetsanding. That boat will wear the paint well when you get to it. :)

Remember, you want that spot priming very cured before topcoat goes over it, else mudcrack possible.

And get all the shipping/manufacturing oil out of that new gun of yours by blasting some solvent through, then iso propyl (no smoking and far from compressor motor sparks), then water. I use Brita filtered water, and blew two full cups of straight water through, after a full cup of alchohol (downwind... no where near any electric). With this new gun of mine, I skipped the solvent other than alchohol. It was evident on some test areas. ANother 30 seconds of paint, and I was getting pure paint. Maybe when you're done with primer curing, and sanding, I'll have some more pictures and notes up. Right now I've got to go hit more masking with the single edge razor. Still soft enough to trim easily.

You've come this far... don't rush it. Let that spot priming cure thoroughly. :)

I rushed a little today, and though it is less than the hoped for ideal, I think the wet sanding will make-a-nice, nice enough anyway, as I'm telling myself more and more... *It's a boat... a simple daysailer... Not one of these... :lol:

http://www.sr-71.org/photogallery/black ... 001-08.jpg

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:15 pm
by desertdiver
Larry . . . a trick pro painters use is to cover the sharp edges with a piece of 3/4" masking tape when you sand. Remove the tape when your finished and go over those areas with a fine "Scotch-Brite" pad. That will give the primer some bite without going through the primer.

Good luck with the S-3.

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:03 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the tips :D

Good idea with the tape DD.

Supposed to rain most of the week, this storm just doesn't want to go away, so we'll let the primer cure a couple of more days.

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:30 am
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:...this storm just doesn't want to go away, so we'll let the primer cure a couple of more days.
She needs a couple more days to cure with the high humiditity. I've got mudcrack in only a few areas from years ago, priming just before, and then painting in a Noreaster. The paint leveled beautifully btw, but the primer, even though sandable and seeming to be cured, apparently could have had a couple days more. I've got to fix those areas on the foredeck once I get her flipped again.

Are you painting gloss inside or S3's satin clear, or using clear at all?

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:36 am
by Biker B.O.B.
Yeah. It's best to wait. I tried to paint too soon after priming in high humidity and got the mudcracks too. Had to do it all over again; really added pressure based upon the splash date I had set.

I can't wait to see you boat finished, but best to it right and not cut corners.

Keep up the good work.

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:46 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks. Good advice from both of yall. I'm getting impatient, got to watch myself about that. It couldn't be more humid.

Just ordered another gallon of primer. I'm not happy mixing them, and I know I'll sand off some more.

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:21 am
by Cracker Larry
We got 6" of rain in 2 hours yesterday afternoon :help: Not sure the 5 day total but something over 24 inches.

And now we have Gustav coming. Where do they get those names :doh:

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:09 am
by cape man
Maybe now you guys will let some of that water outa Georgia flow down to Appalachicola :lol: Although I doubt they need it anymore either.

How high are you and your road in? 24 inches is a bunch! You saw my house. That would test the elevation on the stilts :help: Looks like Gustav is heading south of us and into the Gulf, but after the real versus predicted track of Fay, I'll keep watching. My buds in Grand Cayman are getting REAL nervous!

By the way...the boat interior looks great! Can't wait to see her painted and rigged. Will follow the S3 spraying with lots of interest. Looks like I am definitely heading up to Virginia the first week of November, as my sister has appointed me "hunt master" and my brother and brother-in-law both want to hunt. Will try and stop by and see you if you're around and I can make the detour. May just come on a separate trip.

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:26 am
by Cracker Larry
All my water flows to the Atlantic, we're east of the watershed, but it looks like Lake Lanier will be getting some help today. That water goes to the gulf.

My house is much higher than my road and we had water up to the first step yesterday afternoon, better than knee deep in the road and some places in the yard. My house is 4 blocks high, on 2 ft. of fill dirt. I could have easily motored the GF down the driveway at dark yesterday.

The good news is that we've been so dry that the ditches, creeks and rivers are still able to handle the run-off quickly. And our biggest rains have occurred around low tide. All that rain and we have no standing water this morning. Yet.

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:29 am
by Knottybuoyz
Leave it to Larry! If you can't get your boat to the water the water goes to him! 8O

Hope you keep your feet dry buddy!

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:41 am
by Cracker Larry
No chance of keeping the feet dry. I just want to keep the house dry :lol:

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:41 pm
by cape man
Image

The day after Hurricane Francis, 2005. The two metal rails sticking up in the right foreground is the top of the slide going into the pool. Canoes are essential at times!

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:44 pm
by michaelk
Ouch.

Is the whole house on stilts, or just the porch?

-Mike

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:07 pm
by jgroves
cape man wrote:Image

The day after Hurricane Francis, 2005. The two metal rails sticking up in the right foreground is the top of the slide going into the pool. Canoes are essential at times!
Not much of a slide, but you make up for it with the pool :lol:

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:07 pm
by TomW
Larry been offline since Thursday do to a computer crash. Glad to hear you survived the storm, and it didn't get to the house. I'm getting the last of it now 3" over the last 2 days and still coming down, not much compared to others. We need it we are in the same drought position as last year.

On your sanding on the edges, I don't remember who suggested it but there are pads out and I think Lowes have them in various colors that are like scrubbing pads. The finest are equivalent to 0000 steel wool and go down from there. I use them all the time to get the best finish on cabinets and think they would be ideal to keep from going through the primer sharp edges.

Boats looking good, guy. Patience is a virtue. :D

Tom

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:58 am
by Cracker Larry
The 3M Scotchbrite pads were just the trick for sanding the edges :D Another coat of primer on and re-sanded.

I've been standing by for almost 2 weeks, letting the primer get fully cured while waiting on some cooler weather to paint the topcoat.

Today it looks like the weather and my nerve will coincide. Cool and foggy this AM, about 70 degrees, forcast high 86. I'm going for it, wish me luck :D

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:15 am
by Oceola
It's not luck Larry, it's skill and you have plenty...go for it, and, Good luck. :lol:

Frank

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:19 am
by TomW
Alright Larry, best wishes, hope it goes well.

Tom

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:36 am
by colonialc19
Have at it Larry, you'll get it right 8)

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:47 am
by donk
Give er hell!!! No doubt in my mind, you'll do a hella of a job.

don

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:29 am
by michaelk
Cracker Larry wrote:I've been standing by for almost 2 weeks, letting the primer get fully cured while waiting on some cooler weather to paint the topcoat.
"cooler" weather? a bit of an understatement. waiting for the primer to cure? I don't think that's the real reason.

I think that 20+ inches of rain and a little bit of wind may have had something to do with it. If it wasn't for the bad weather, we'd be admiring your perfect paint job right now. I'm jealous just thinking about it.

Of course, the weather may just have been a coincidence. He's really just waiting for the rest of us to cool off so that he can wow us with his expertise again :wink:

Go to it! We can take it 8)

-Mike

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:43 am
by deedee
larry i know you probably said before somewhere in the 100+ pages here but i wanted to know what rollers you were using to roll out your primer with ? i have had success with the candy stripe rollers but they are really expensive at 7.99 a piece. lint free is the biggest thing here i guess. just curious . anyone elses thoughts are welcome as well.

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the encouragement :D

As usual the weatherman lied again. It now 94 at 1 pm :( Got one coat on the entire insides, from the rubrail to the sole and it looks real good. Well, as good as it's going to anyway because I'm done with sanding. No runs, no orange peel, no bugs to speak of, a little dog hair...The topcoat does show the spots you missed that the primer didn't mention :doh:

Actually it looks about like the primer, almost the same color and not much glossier. I'm using S3 Bainbridge White, which is a light gray. I'm surprised it's not more glossy, but it will be perfect for the interior. Too dull for the exterior.

I can tell a big difference in how the paint flows, between 70 and 95 degrees. I'm going to have to quit with it until later in the day, or maybe wait until the AM for the next coat :doh: I hate waiting because I put cross linker in it and don't want to sand.

Oh, I've developed a new technique, it's called spray and tip :roll:

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
i wanted to know what rollers you were using to roll out your primer with ?
They are made by Whizz, called door and cabinet rollers, 4" high density foam. $7.89 a 6 pack at Lowes. About the price of good beer, which I'm fixin to drink a few of :wink:

I use them for everything, epoxy, primer, paint...

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:52 pm
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:Oh, I've developed a new technique, it's called spray and tip :roll:
Sorry... forgot to tell you about that one... sure does smooth out the learning curve though, doesn't it? :lol: JUst doesn't work well over 90F and as the air dries out, since then the stuff skins so fast, with crosslinker. Well, glad you took the plunge. There should be some gloss.

If you spray and get a good flow, if you then go back to give it just a shot to get a little better coverage, it can dull the flow, because the touch up isn't enough to promote a full glossy flow again. So what you end up creating is a sort of dull very fine orange peel dusting. If you don't feed the air through a long hose in ice, it might literally be paint *dust* and cure like sandpaper, or nonskid. If you then try to hit it again to promote a full gloss flow again, you either get runs, or slides, or a glossy smooth orange peel if you are fortunate. I bet this stuff is a dream to use in a climate controlled spray booth, but... alas... (opps, dating myself... (there can only be one)).


I wiped a few bad slides with my finger, and then kicked myself for doing it... so I wiped it some more! After four more coats, including the clear, you can barely see it. I should have had a foam brush ready!

Looking forward to the pictures. :)

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:53 pm
by mecreature
Cracker Larry wrote:
i wanted to know what rollers you were using to roll out your primer with ?
They are made by Whizz, called door and cabinet rollers, 4" high density foam. $7.89 a 6 pack at Lowes. About the price of good beer, which I'm fixin to drink a few of :wink:

I use them for everything, epoxy, primer, paint...

I like using beer as a monetary standard too. Keeps things real for the regular guy... Same rollers I used.. worked great as long as you didn't push um tooo far...

I like that bainbridge white.. is is the perfect gray.. I mixed it with whidbey white ... just cause I wanted too.. kind of warmed it up just a bit...but when I choose again.. its bainbridge all over.

spray and tip uh..

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:54 pm
by jgroves
Speaking of spraying.... I don't have a compressor so I picked up a couple Preval cans and added my paint to it. They worked great for the my leaning post seat. Spraying seems to be an art in itself.

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:10 pm
by TomW
Larry, when I did my test with the Camano Red what is now months ago it took the gloss clear coat to give it the gloss finish. Like you was not impressed with just the plain paint.

Glad things went well today. Yea it's still early the heat can get you in the afternoon down there.:( Hopefully primer for me tomorrow.

Tom

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
If you spray and get a good flow, if you then go back to give it just a shot to get a little better coverage, it can dull the flow, because the touch up isn't enough to promote a full glossy flow again. So what you end up creating is a sort of dull very fine orange peel dusting. If you don't feed the air through a long hose in ice, it might literally be paint *dust* and cure like sandpaper, or nonskid. If you then try to hit it again to promote a full gloss flow again, you either get runs, or slides, or a glossy smooth orange peel if you are fortunate
Jeeezzz KS, gloom and doom :help: It's all this talk that's kept me postponing this task for 2 weeks :P That and a couple of storms and remodeling the bedroom, and fear. I've come to the conclusion that it's just paint. Just been through 2 gallons inside the house. Why is it that I can buy a good glossy enamel for about $30, and cover existing dark blue trim with white, 2 coats with a brush, and it's perfect :?: With boats you need a chemistry degree, chemistry set, moonshine still, black magic and ju-ju beans, 7 coats, wet sanded and buffed with $120 a gallon paint :doh:

You got to hold yer mouth right when ya do it, that's all. :wink:

I've decided to give it another coat in a little while. :|

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:52 pm
by ks8
Hardly any games when the weather is right. :lol:

Oh... and if you are wearing laced shoes while spraying, make sure the left shoe doesn't use the last set of holes for laces. Is the hull oriented N-S or E-W? Now if it was just a matter of *paint is paint*, you wouldn't bother spraying. But you're trying to go for something a little extra... so take out that last row of laces on the left shoe. :)

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:11 pm
by TomW
And they have to be black juju beans to bo with the black magic and if you are right handed you have to hold your tongur in your left teeth to get the right balance! :lol:

Man I hate fairing just came in from doing it all day and am down to 120 and still found some low spots and little bubbles :x

Tom

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hardly any games when the weather is right.


94 degrees probably isn't just right, but that's what God gave me and that's what we did. :lol:

Oh... and if you are wearing laced shoes while spraying, make sure the left shoe doesn't use the last set of holes for laces.
I'm a country boy. I only paint barefooted :lol:
Is the hull oriented N-S or E-W?
NE, towards the closest water. Got to build your boat with the bow facing the water, bad ju-ju otherwise :wink:
And they have to be black juju beans


Yep, got to be black. Don't worry, I got 'em :wink:
still found some low spots and little bubbles
I found a few more today also :( Screw em :lol:

Got that second coat on this evening, finished up at dark, Won't know how she looks until the light of day tomorrow. If it looks good enough I'll show you some pictures, otherwise I'll fix it and then show you some pictures :lol:

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:57 pm
by PastorBob
larry some paints gloss as the set up and dry... interlux...

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:18 am
by ks8
How's that gun cleaning up for ya?

With all that prepping I did, I lost patience, and was out of time, I'd do all the priming or painting of a section in one day, just blast right through, but there can be more to fix, or live with, when doing that... specially when its 104F for the last coats... not exactly within S3 guidelines. :lol:

Two coats so far... great! Sam must be pleased (meant as an imperative, but hopefully also an observation). How's Delilah with the choice of color?

May the light of day bring you a pleasant surprise. :)

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:53 am
by Cracker Larry
How's that gun cleaning up for ya?
For a water based paint, it is the hardest stuff to clean I've ever seen :help:

Going out to take a look as soon as I get the nerve up. Then we'll put on another coat :lol:
With all that prepping I did, I lost patience,
I can't believe that :doh: Not you, who's spent 7 years with all those beautiful details.

Personally I'm losing patience with the finishing myself.

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:17 am
by mecreature
I had a dull spot on a paint finish once.. LOL j/k


I did try waxing a couple spots on this s3 paint after it cured real well and it brought out a pretty good shine..

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:49 pm
by TomW
Did the rain get to you this morning or did you escape and get a coat on her before it got to you. Rained here last night and hoped it would not get to you before you got another coat on! :(

Put the final coat of QF on this afternoon and will sand and prime tomorrow. :help:

Tom

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:52 pm
by Fishinfool
Keep at it Larry,,,, patience,,,,, ha, ha,, for sure ,,the painting was the hardest part for me... it was like a painter making a mess of a good sheetrock job... I invented a lot of new 4 letter words...but finally got it to were I was happy,,, and lots of beers as you mentioned,,, good luck... Fishinfool,,,Al

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall :D No rain today Tom, but supposed to be a gullywasher for the next 2. That's OK, at least it might cool down a little. Don't know about you but I'm ready for some fall weather. 95 every day for months is getting old.
I had a dull spot on a paint finish once.. LOL j/k
I had a lot of them this morning :| The good news is that nothing drastic happened. No big runs, the paint didn't fall off, it all dried well.

This is 2 coats sprayed, from the rubrail to the console, first thing this morning. It isn't a very even finish, kinda mottled, some parts are glossy, some aren't :doh: Notice Delilah looking goofy. She had a run-in with a copperhead and got bit on her back leg last night :( But she'll be OK. Copperhead won't.

Image

I used a Scotchbrite pad and scrubbed/sanded the whole thing. Found and fixed a couple of runs, then wiped it down with alcohol. Then I decided to do the next coat using roll and tip, rather than spray and tip. I wanted to compare the 2 with this paint. The spray is OK, but real hard to control in interior corners which there is a lot of. You're either getting too much or not enough around the corners. Keep a foam brush handy, as in hand, at all times :wink:

Continued.....

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:04 pm
by TomW
Yea, your right this heat is about had it. Finally coming down only 88 in garage this afternoon. Going up to Iowa next two weeks in 70-60's there. Can't wait to be able to trailer the boat up there for walleye and catfish and to L. Michigan for salmon L. trout

Tom.

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Spraying takes a lot more time in preparation, and a LOT more time in cleanup that roll and tip. This paint is extremely hard to clean off of tools and pans and cups. Much harder to clean than the S3 primer.

But spraying takes a LOT less time in application than rolling. It took me 5 straight hours to roll and tip the inside and rub rail. My back is past hurting, just numb. If I was to ever go to a doctor he'd make me quit boat building.

I'm not terribly pleased with these results either. It's OK, and again no major problems, drips, bugs or such, but again kind of mottled, not uniform, and the gloss is not uniform. Some places dull, some shiny, but the paint is put on evenly :doh:

Image

I started today about 0830. It was 75 degrees and 95% humidity, but when I finished it was about 94 degrees and 80%. As it gets hotter, you have to work with smaller and smaller sections, or it will skin over before you can tip it. The slightest breeze makes it skin over instantly also. If you roll out about 2 square feet, tip it and move on it works great. Try 3 square feet and you've got a mess.

Image


This paint really dries fast. You have one chance to tip it out before it skins over. I was thinning about 10% with water, which made the paint a little thicker than milk.

Image

So as you can see, 3 coats and it's not a uniform color or gloss, even with all the prep we've done...

Image

It's not bad, but it isn't satisfactory yet. I've got enough paint for 2 more coats so I'll go at it again tomorrow. If anyone is wondering, it takes 26 ounces per coat, sprayed or rolled.

My conclusion, I don't think I like this paint. I've used others that are less tempermental and give better coverage for the same price. It will be OK for the interior where I don't want it glossy anyway, but I do want it uniform, glossy or not.

I won't be using S3 on the exterior though :wink: Too finicky for my disposition.

[/quote]

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:53 pm
by Fishinfool
Had the same problem Larry,,, I ended up wet sanding everything,,,then applyed, 2 coats of clear,, roll and tip. Finally got it to look good. Fishinfool,,,Al

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Al, I just ain't up for all that wet sanding and clear coating. This will be OK for the inside, but on the outside I'm going to use a paint that doesn't require all that to look good.

Seems to me like 3 coats of a light gray topcoat over 4 coats of light gray primer should at least produce a somewhat uniform shade of gray :?:

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
Note to KS. I just wanted to mention to you that you see no tape in my pictures. I pull the tape immediately after each coat and re-tape for the next. No cutting with a razor blade, and good clean lines. The longer the tape is on the longer the paint can soak thru it and give you the fuzzies :lol:

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:26 am
by TomW
Larry, glad your verifying what I have heard from others on the S3 paints. Not just B. Bob, but other non-forum sources. The S3 is very difficult to apply and get a good coverage on. I'll be honest when I did my test on the Camano Red last spring I was also dissapointed in it. But it is bought and paid for and I'll use it and if SWMBO isn't happy I can always sand it off and get something else. I notice Shine is going with Sterling. :) 8O

Tom

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:19 am
by Spokaloo
Larry, try something for me....

I know this isn't pleasant, but get up around midnight and paint. Your RH's will be stable for at least 4 hrs, diurnal winds should be down, and temps ought to be tolerable. If there is potential for a heavy dew, it might not be ideal, but working from a moderately cool temp to a cooler one can be pretty effective.

It might require a bug screen as well, but thats nothing a little clear visqueen and a little duct tape couldn't fix (be mindful of ventilation!).

E

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:05 am
by JimW
I was lucky and painted in Feb and March. It worked well for me. I also clear coated for extra gloss. It's not much trouble if the temps are more ideal than you are getting right now. But I am less finicky about finish perfection I think. I wanted something that gave good results relatively easily and without any respiratory hassle or risks. In winter time temps of florida S3 did what I wanted.

Larry I think your boat looks great and the way you drilled EVERYTHING first and sealed. That boat will be here when the insects take over!

Now the question is can you hit 200 pages?

I hope your pup gets better and recovers ok.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:32 am
by flatpicker
Larry, I know I am very new to all this boat building stuff but I think she looks great. Maybe a little blood and guts will even out the paint? :lol:

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:35 am
by cape man
Larry,

From here she's looking great. Thanks for posting all this. I'm months away, but thinking a lot about paint.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:54 am
by Workin Man
Larry, I'll gladly trade you some fall weather for a few days of 95F. It's about 9C here right now (48F), supposed to get to 18C this afternoon(mid 60'sF). Not supposed to get much warmer anytime soon either.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:02 am
by Fishinfool
Hi Larry,, That boat really looks good.. Like you , I had my fits with the sys 3.. paint, but with some conversations with Shine and some extra sanding, which I really didnt want to do.. Had just spent 15 days fairing and sanding.. It finally turned out good.. Like you I had concidered Sterling, but when it took 3 gal. to prime the hull, I figured ,I would go broke,, till the boat was complete, with sterling top coat.. so I sent it back and exchanged... As it turned out,, Im pretty sure I bought 9 gallons of orcas white. I have 1/2 gal. left for touch up..But the clear coat did the trick... Heres the funny part,,,The hole boat , has been shipped through,a little store, were my wife work,,except motor and trailer... When we gased up the first time, at the same store,,, I had probably 7 people crawling all over the boat... you cant even imagine how many ,,black scuff marks are everywhere,, I mean everywere...What I realized ,,was that I think I was being a little to picky on myself... My tongue hurt,,, from bitting it,, to keep my mouth shut.. Forgot the fact that it was still my livaboard fishin boat,,and I havnt even put my 2 Labs on yet,,have feeling that will be even worse... But i am happy with results Keep at it...Al

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:06 am
by Cracker Larry
I know this isn't pleasant, but get up around midnight and paint.
My wife and I discussed this yesterday. I don't have any problem painting at midnight, except for the bugs. This cypress swamp I live in, if you turn on a light you'll get millions of bugs. Screening my whole work area just to paint is out of the question. That would cost more than good paint, plus labor. Good idea otherwise, but it won't work here.
Larry I think your boat looks great and the way you drilled EVERYTHING first and sealed. That boat will be here when the insects take over!


Thank you Jim!
I think she looks great. Maybe a little blood and guts will even out the paint?


Thanks, and I think you're right. I'm being too picky. After a couple of trips we'll get it covered with mud, blood and beer and none of it will matter. I've got to work on keeping things in perspective :lol:
I'm months away, but thinking a lot about paint.
Craig, start saving your change and think Sterling :wink:

WM, 40's and 60's sound real, real good right now. I'd make that trade 8)
:lol:

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:10 am
by Cracker Larry
What I realized ,,was that I think I was being a little to picky on myself... My tongue hurt,,, from bitting it,, to keep my mouth shut.. Forgot the fact that it was still my livaboard fishin boat,,and I havnt even put my 2 Labs on yet,,have feeling that will be even worse... But i am happy with results Keep at it...Al
Thanks Al, that's agrees with what I've been thinking. I'm probably being too picky, and if I should by some chance get it close to perfect I'd be scared to use it. These 2 big red dogs don't care much about paint :lol:

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:29 am
by mecreature
You say you are putting on 2 more coats?

it looks good to me.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:38 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, 2 more coats. Thanks :D

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:39 am
by michaelk
mecreature wrote:You say you are putting on 2 more coats?
Even if S3 won't give him the finish he wants, he's still sot some left and might as well get the additional protection from the extra layers.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:40 am
by MulletChoker
We had good luck with the Signature paint on the outside hull of the Nina, it's a 3-part paint system that uses a 'flow fluid' to control drying times. We rolled on 3 coats with Home Depot 7" foam rollers, no tipping, and were happy with the finish. Took about 1 1/3 qt of base paint for 4 bottom coats and 3 topside coats.After 2 weeks to set, I sanded a little off the keel (to attach a skid plate) and it was tough to sand off.
Signaturefinish.com

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:41 am
by bushmaster
Larry

I love your console. Any chance of getting some measurements for my FS17?

BTW, I was down with pneumonia, had a nasty viral infection. I think it was more bacterial. I was in the hospital for the day. The doctor pumpmed me full of anti-biotic and let me go home at night.

I had to go back to the hospital on Saturday because i developed a rash from the anti-biotic they prescribed.

Still not up to it to continue the build at the moment.

Keep up the good work and keep posting those pictures. What an encouragement!

Bushmaster

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:50 am
by Cracker Larry
I love your console. Any chance of getting some measurements for my FS17?
Thanks, I'll measure it for you in a while..

Sounds like you've had a rough time, hope you recover quickly :!:
I hope your pup gets better and recovers ok.
Thanks Jim, she's better today. The swelling has gone down a lot and she's getting around better. She got bit by a rattlesnake years ago on her snout and almost died. Since then she's been real careful of snakes, I've even seen her attack Sam to keep him away from a snake. Don't know why she decided to tangle with this one, unless Sam was close by. She is very protective.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:25 pm
by cape man
Craig, start saving your change and think Sterling
Am waiting for a shipment of the two-part epoxy paint we use to seal our concrete tanks at work. Am going to try some on a test board, and will report results. Needs a UV inhibitor over the top, or repaint in a few years. $27/gallon.

Want a pretty boat, but also don't need the heartburn the first time I load her with drift wood for a bon fire on the Cape. Reading your story, don't think I can justify the time and money for the use I plan on putting my boat through.

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:02 pm
by michaelk
For myself, I've already got a gallon of the S3. I'll be using it for just that reason. I'm not too concerned with the finish being absolutely perfect, but I'll try putting it on with the sprayer just to see how it works before rolling the whole thing in order to "get it done"

-Mike

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Coat number 4 went on this morning, after another round of light sanding with the 3M pad. She's looking better. :D It will be perfectly acceptable in the end I think. I also changed the color on the gunwale, inwale and rubrail to a darker gray, and got one coat of that on. Might get another this evening.

I like the 2 tone gray look. Will really be about 4 tones by the time the Kiwigrip and hatches are added. Any one know where I can get a deck mounted .50 :lol:

The outside will be Sterling, Matterhorn white, so the darker gray at the rail should compliment both and set them off. I think. What do I know :doh:
For myself, I've already got a gallon of the S3.


Don't worry Mike, it will do a decent job with enough coats and some sanding in between.
Want a pretty boat, but also don't need the heartburn the first time I load her with drift wood for a bon fire on the Cape.
I hear ya and it makes perfect sense. Don't know why I'm doing this, just to see if I can, I guess. Hope that epoxy works out for you 8) You do have a Christmas deadline, won't have time for a lot of sanding :lol:

You ain't gonna make it I think. Might have to tote the wood in my boat :P

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:20 pm
by ks8
Glad your fourth coat is looking better. Yep, unless the weather is perfect, you almost have to rely on the clear to unify the finish. It's that flo and skin timing, brush or spray. I tried thinning even more and then it slides right off. But when you get the weather window... nice! Bear in mind, it behaves more tolerably without the crosslinker, so 4 coats without, and final clear with, may be a workable solution. I don't think I want to be the R&D anymore though.

The two or four tone with grays sounds good! I would have thought you had already measured and predrilled and sealed the mounting holes for the .50.

Give Delilah a *good girl* for me. I hope Sam is duly grateful. :)

Or is he absorbed with concern, like an expecting papa, or because he wishes he had protected her?

Good pictures. One can tell the level of prep work you did. :)

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:42 pm
by Cracker Larry
Quote:
I love your console. Any chance of getting some measurements for my FS17?


Thanks, I'll measure it for you in a while..


Here ya go Bushmaster, as promised...



Image

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
I would have thought you had already measured and predrilled and sealed the mounting holes for the .50.
Having a hard time finding a US supplier :doh:

Thanks KS, but Sam doesn't show concern or gratitude. :?

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:50 pm
by bushmaster
Thank you very much Larry.

You are very good and efficient. What good work you do and so many people use you as an example.


Thank you once again



Bushamster

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:51 pm
by ks8
How about Googling for a five foot bronze black powder 9 pounder? You'll probably have to modify your waterline though... depending on where you mount it. Better to have it on a carriage too... you could install runners on the sole... watch your toes! PaBoom!

How about a 1.5 inch bore? Still need a carriage... but it may fit in front of your console... barrels is only 33 inches weighing in at 125 pounds... doable? right chere

You'd have to bore out their *swivel gun*, but this one is ready to go!

Yeah, maybe overkill for an OD18 bow chaser. :|

But not nearly as much overkill as adapting a Hotchkiss 37mm mount to your bowdeck... you laid up a few extra layers of biax, right? :lol:

Image

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Oh yeah, we got plenty of biax. Going to need some trim tabs for that bad boy though. It ain't the gun that's the problem, it's the ammo :wink:

I've seen twin .50s on less boat than this one, but I think the Hotchkiss might be a little heavy :lol: And that mount is not very nautical :doh:

Thank you once again
My pleasure, BM :D

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Here is how she looks now with 2 shades of gray. There is only one coat of the darker color on the gunwales, and now 4 coats on the rest of the interior.

Image

Another coat or 2 of the darker gray and I think we'll call the interior painted :D

Image

Non skid to follow 8)

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:39 pm
by Workin Man
Looks awsome in the pics Larry. Just need your shipping address for the 40's/ 60's . I don't suppose you'd like to make a similar trade for 50's vs low teens come January or so?

Jim

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:03 am
by cape man
You ain't gonna make it I think. Might have to tote the wood in my boat
Oh I'll make it. Sleep is way over rated. We'll still use yours as the fire wood scow if you are finished by January :wink:

The paint looks sweet. Like the light grey. Blood will look good on it.

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:28 pm
by Murry
WOW Larry :!:

It looks great and you should be proud, your attention to detail really shows in the pictures, Larry.

Thanks for sharing that will all of us.

Daniel

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Daniel, Craig, Jim, I appreciate the comments :D Jim send those 40's and 60's to Savannah, GA :wink:

We got another coat on this morning, might be the last, and she just keeps looking better. I'm becoming more satisfied with every coat. That's the biggest trick to this paint I think, lots of thin coats and lightly sand in between with 220 grit.

Today is almost perfect painting weather for a change 8) Low 80s, feels like a cold front to me, drizzling rain, well it's pouring right now :doh: real high humidity, no wind.

So the paint behaved a little better, my tipping techniques are improving and the multiple coats are showing better consistency. 5 coats on everything now. I'm having better results with roll and tip than spraying, but I'm sure it's just a matter of practice and experience.

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:30 pm
by Murry
I'm glad to hear that it's looking better and better.

Based on the quality of your work, I'm sure it'll be perfect by most standards. Everyone except yours. :) Being a perfectionist makes it tough, doesn't?

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:40 pm
by TomW
Yea, Murry he is and I'm not even showing mine cause I'm even more.

Larry good luck with the rest of the painting. I'm off for two weeks and I have a feeling your going to launch at the end of that period. You are so close. She is one fine lady and the MWht on the hull will be great. What is Sam saying these days or is he taking care of D. Hope she has recovered. When our Katie was young she used to bring baby rattlers(10")up to us as presents, alive of course. She finally learned to kill them!

Good luck on the launch if I'm on the river. You have one heck of a boat, she's a real lady and will serve you well.

Hope the families well and talk to you in a couple of weeks!

Tom

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom. Have a safe and fun trip.

I won't be launching in the next few weeks. Still have to do the non-skid, sand the outside and give it another coat of primer, topcoat the outside, Then start installing all the fittings, gauges, controls, steering, wiring and such. Still don't have a trailer or a motor, so I'll be a while yet :wink:

Delila's about back to normal, Sam's spent the summer in the A/C. He hates the heat.
I'm sure it'll be perfect by most standards. Everyone except yours. Being a perfectionist makes it tough, doesn't?
:lol: It's a long ways from perfect, but it's pretty dang good. As good as I can make it with what I have to work with. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it does have to represent my best effort 8) If you'd seen the finish on some of the boats at the Crystal River meet, you'd know what I was up against. Some of these guys must own paint and body shops, you'd think, but no, they did it in the garage...:doh: Here's an example... Bill's Muddler..... :help:

Image

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:26 pm
by chicagoross
I missed the pics of your first few coats the other day, Larry - gorgeous work as usual!

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:24 pm
by gk108
So, that's Bainbridge white and Vashon gray? That looks great. Are you going to get a rubber rubrail kit?

As for weaponry, I understand one of these works well when mounted on the foredeck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6nm-6eCzM
8O

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:00 am
by cape man
Nice, but it's only a 20 mm. Larry's deck should handle the recoil from at least a 50 :lol: .

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:20 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks CR, slow but sure, just like the tortoise :lol:
So, that's Bainbridge white and Vashon gray?
GK, I actually mixed a little of the white with the Vashon gray to lighten it up a few shades. I thought the Vashon itself may be too dark. That's 10 oz. Bainbridge to 32 oz. Vashon.
As for weaponry, I understand one of these works well when mounted on the foredeck:
Oh yeah, a jumbo mini-gun 8) Again, it ain't the weapon, it's ammo storage that's a problem. :doh:
Are you going to get a rubber rubrail kit?


Yes, I'll get a Taco rubrail kit.
Nice, but it's only a 20 mm. Larry's deck should handle the recoil from at least a 50


Look closer Craig, that's not a 20mm, it's a 30MM :wink: 8) And don't discount the 20. It's about 50% stronger than a .50. Bore size of a 20mm is .787, a 30mm is 1.182 8O A .50 of course is .50.

The recoil of a 20mm chain gun will make a Huey fly backwards :help:

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:07 am
by Knottybuoyz
Cracker Larry wrote:The recoil of a 20mm chain gun will make a Huey fly backwards :help:
You might have to settle for one of these then. It only shoots 22's. :?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4i9_kkg30o

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:54 am
by TomW
Rick that would do the job in close. Would not want to face it myself! Loaded with LR/solid or expanding points. Nasty.

Tom

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:31 pm
by gk108
Well, if ammo storage is going to be a problem, then maybe the Larc M-19 would be more appropriate. Same kind of rapid firepower, smaller projectile. :D

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
That would certainly solve the ammo storage problem :lol: A little light on knock down. I've got a neighbor who is a gun nut, capital NUT, he's got one of everything, even one of those :doh: Not sure why, but he's ready for anything.

I just finished coat number 6, had good humidity, cloudy and drizzling rain. Temp mid 80s. It went on real smooth, almost perfect, except for several drops of sweat that really screw things up :|

I think I'm done with inside painting. It is what it is at this point. 8) And it's pretty good, not perfect, not going to be.

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:20 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
AG is really looking good and the paint is really taking shape. What color are you going to use for boot, accent, etc. I missed that somewhere?
Thank you again for all of the ongoing tutorials with photos that have helped with much of the pondering, which is about all that I have done the last two weeks. I tried to do some today and ran out of get up and go pretty quick, well try again tomorrow.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Robbie, I'm thinking maybe a red boot stripe. Hope you're doing better :)

Been masking and sanding for the Kiwi Grip some today. Almost got it ready to paint. There will be a non-skid step pad at every frame on the gunwale. I use a small jar lid to lay out the radius curves and a razor blade to cut them out.

Image

The casting deck and sole will be patterned something like this...

Image

This needs a little more work, but you get the idea. All radius are made with the little jar cap.

Dougster was asking earlier why I was putting kiwi grip over topcoat paint. This is why. I don't know any other way to achieve the pattern :doh:

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:29 pm
by Dougster
Lord that's gonna be a piece of art! I sure see now why you painted first. How do think up that stuff? It's just gonna be gorgeous. And then you're gonna get blood and fish scales all over it.

Figures you'll take the time to wash up after though Dougster :)

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm
by ks8
Nice pattern. I like it right to the edge of the gun'l like that. The gray is nice to. :)

I'm guessing it cooled off five degrees or so there? I see Sam is braving the outdoors again. And keeping an eye on you and the razor blade work... :)

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
Still 95 degrees every day KS, supposed to cool off later in the week if this next cold front makes it this far south. Sam just comes out for short visits.
How do think up that stuff?
Lots of time spent on good boats with good beer :?: :lol:

Even more time spent on bad boats and hot beer. Lot's of time to ponder good and bad.

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:27 pm
by robbiro
Larry, I am thinking and have started before the last turn over to do something very similar to the inside of FL. Bright Blue interior sides and and Gray treading areas. The paint is here and I just need to get the bottom finished.
I have a good coat of Quick Fair on the bottom, now I just have to fix a couple of places that I think you would call ROCKER, concave places along the runners that would make for a unique hydrodynamic movement at speed (not so good).
The doc says that I can work on FL, but no heavy lifting, etc and no rolling around in the dust, mud, bug guts, etc for a long period of time, but I can probably go back to work next Tuesday. No running either!!! The RO just lays there and does it's thing, so I can do that.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
Slow and easy Robbie. A little at a time :wink: One little thing a day. You'll get er done.

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Oh, forgot to mention :doh: You can see above that the GF is in the shop. Some fool with a go fancy Ranger flats boat backed his trailer right into my GF while it was pulled up on the boat ramp Saturday morning.

He knocked a big chunk out of the bow with the corner of his trailer :(
I slapped some duct tape on it and Dori and I went shrimping anyway, and I fixed it yesterday. All it needs now is painting. Some people got more money than brains. Makes you wonder how they have any money :doh:

One thing about building a boat, you also know how to fix it 8)

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:28 am
by chicagoross
Actually the blue tape color looks pretty nice against the gray - that'd be my color vote!

:D I just sprinkled the nonskid with a salt shaker on the next-to-last coat. :D This will look nicer!

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:59 am
by cape man
Some people got more money than brains. Makes you wonder how they have any money
Just because they have expensive things, doesn't mean they have money. We'll loan anyone almost anything in this country, as the financial institution failures are proving. The cars and boats that some folks own just amaze me when I see them parked in front of a broken down trailer. Hope the GF is okay.

Boat's looking sweet. Getting close...

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:48 am
by Cracker Larry
The GF's is fine Craig, nothing a little epoxy won't fix.

I think a lot of that easy money will soon coming to a screeching halt :lol:

Actually the blue tape color looks pretty nice against the gray - that'd be my color vote!
Yeah, it does look pretty good, and the T-top has blue canvas that I need to tie in also. So, you never know. I try to stay one decision ahead of the build and haven't quite reached that one yet :doh:

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:02 am
by jgroves
The tape... big milestone! Couple hours taping for 10 min painting :lol:

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:11 am
by Cracker Larry
More than a couple of hours there, Jeremy :wink:

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:39 am
by mecreature
good taping does take time. It will be cool to see when done.

You gonna charter this thing when done Larry?

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:47 am
by jgroves
Looks good! I bet it takes you 20 min to paint. :lol:

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:56 am
by Lucky_Louis
Awesome Larry, it's gonna look great.
Dougster was asking earlier why I was putting kiwi grip over topcoat paint. This is why. I don't know any other way to achieve the pattern Doh!
There isn't, you couldn't mask the kiwi grip without bleed. You did it right. If you knew where the kiwi was going exactly, you could have saved some time and paint by not painting there but I suspect that you kinda followed your heart when you started masking. :wink:

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:29 am
by Murry
Looks great Larry.

I can't wait to see her fitted out, it's going to be worth a road trip to see that thing in person. :D

Now how can I explain that to my wife? :doh:
I can hear it now. You're going WHERE, to see WHAT :?:

She does have family in Savannah. How far is that?

Daniel

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Jeremy, LL, Daniel :D
She does have family in Savannah. How far is that?
About 35 miles. I'd be glad to have you come by 8)
but I suspect that you kinda followed your heart when you started masking.
Exactly. more of an evolution than planned creationism. You got to do what the boat tells you to do and be prepared to change tacks :lol:

Looks good! I bet it takes you 20 min to paint.


Yeah, right, closer to all day. but we had to tack a time or 2 :wink: We did get her done, at least this part of it.

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Now Sam and I are Kiwi Grip experts 8) This stuff is really a neat product, easy to use, great coverage, easy clean up, looks good, great traction, excellent results :D All the qualities you want.

There was only one small problem. The directions on the can lie and tell you to wait until the paint is dry before removing tape. DO NOT do this :!: I'll show you why later.

We started by finishing up the tape job and sanding the areas to get the non-skid.....

Image

Then we washed the areas and had a beer while they dried. Still hot, low 90s. 2 beers :lol:

I applied the Kiwi Grip with a notched spreader to get an even coating. Joel showed us how to do this at Crystal River. You only work a small area at a time, spreading it, then rolling it.

Image

I should have taken a picture of the roller :doh: Anyway you roll it out to the desired texture which is easy to achieve. Here the direction say to let the stuff dry, then cut off the tape. Not. This is what you get....I should have known better :doh:

Image

It sticks together like rubber and pulls and tears. Real hard to cut accurately because the material is too thick to see your tape lines. Lucky for me I tried a few test sections before doing it all :D

So we quickly learned to pull the tape while still wet, which is the way I usually handle tape anyway. Instructions be dam. If you pull it wet it gives clean lines and stays put...looks like this...

Image

So we carried on, one section at a time, spread, roll out, pull tape. Sweet, looks good 8)

Then we went back and re-masked and recovered our first learning spots. Touch up and recoat went easy. Pulled tape wet this time :wink:

I'm pretty pleased with it. There are a couple of spots I might re-tape and do over to get a cleaner edge, but it's pretty good. :D Here she is looking forward....

Image

And looking aft.....

Image

Not bad. Now we just have to do the same thing to the sole and we can call the inside finished. This is really good stuff, only takes a little practice to achieve very good results 8)

For those curious, it took just under a quart to do all this. I was concerned if I'd have enough to do everything, but the gallon will be more than enough.

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:07 am
by cape man
Very nice. 8)

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:36 am
by WobblyLegs
Larry, that's looking fantastic. Are you getting close to a launch?

Tim.

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:59 am
by Murry
You may have just added the kiwi to my build Larry. That's beautiful.

Wow 35 miles is close, when we make it down I'd love to see you're craftsmanship firsthand. We haven't made any plans yet but perhaps that could work out when we make it down.

Thanks, Larry.

Are you going to intall the hardware while your waiting on the sterling to
arrive?

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:12 am
by Dougster
Thanks for the detailed post on the kiwi. Your thoughts on it are encouraging as I intend to use it. As my wife's grandfather used to say, "That hopes me a lot". The look is just great and I bet it will be very user friendly. You've gotta be pleased so far. Now I'll have to ponder on a pattern 'cause I see how nice it can look. I'm very interested in how the Sterling goes on as well.

Paying attention Dougster

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:35 am
by flatpicker
Thanks for posting. She's looking better and better. 8)

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:44 am
by jgroves
Larry, lookin' good friend. You have certainly put some nice exterior touches to her.
You mentioned that the kiwi sticks and tears like rubber... does it feel like a rubber surface? If so I may try some of that! I like the idea of a softer feeling on bare feet.

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:56 am
by tech_support
jgroves wrote:does it feel like a rubber surface?
Only for the first day. It gets hard when cured. Larry is 100% right on removing the tape. We talked about that when we used the Kiwigrip on the Aquasport.

The boat looks great. Very close to getting wet :)

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:35 am
by gk108
I don't know where I was while the demo was happening in CR, but this really helps clear up my questions on the Kiwi Grip. :D

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:50 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone for the comments :D
Larry is 100$ right on removing the tape. We talked about that when we used the Kiwigrip on the Aquasport.
I thought I remembered you saying that. This is one instance where the directions on the can should be ignored :lol:
like the idea of a softer feeling on bare feet.
Me too Jeremy. It felt like rubber yesterday, I'll check it out in a little while.
Are you going to intall the hardware while your waiting on the sterling to arrive?
I've already got the Sterling, Daniel. Just waiting on the spirit to move me in the right directions. Actually, you may laugh but I'm waiting on the moon to get back to a quarter stage before I paint. In my swamp, the bugs are much worse around the full moon, while the quarter moon stages are almost bugless. City folk probably don't know this :doh:

So yes, I'll probably start installing hardware this weekend and start painting after the last quarter moon on Monday 8)

You are welcome to visit anytime.
Are you getting close to a launch?
I'm a lot closer than I was, Wob :!: Still not setting a date.

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:56 am
by Cracker Larry
I don't know where I was while the demo was happening in CR,
I think you were giving Manatee tours to the girls :lol:

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:57 am
by deedee
really nice looking nonskid you got there!!! 8O alot of stuff out there doesn't allow for a uniform coat. it seems like you got a really noce finish and its actually non skid. alot of molded hulls have the diamond pattern "nonskid" and it aint even close to being nonskid. great looking stuff larry.

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:45 pm
by topwater
CL look's great i knew you would'nt disapoint :wink:

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 pm
by ks8
Beautiful! And functional...

You just may beat me to the water! :lol: (hasn't everyone? :roll: )

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall very much. It's all in the material, doesn't have much to do with me. This stuff will make ya look good :wink:

I can't wait to open that box of Sterling and see the 3 elves jump out of there :lol:

Sam and I decided to fix the few ragged edges we had left, so we masked them and went over them again. Might as well make them all look good. This stuff is great for touch up, blends right in :D
Paying attention Dougster
this really helps clear up my questions on the Kiwi Grip.


You don't need to be troubled by this. It's easy. I'll show you how one more time on a big area, step by step. We've got 2 days of experience now :lol: Almost as much as Obama :?

First you decide on your pattern and mask it off. This takes longer than anything. Based on yesterday's experience we decided to work only one section at a time. Instructions say not to apply more than 1sq M at a time. After I mask it, I sand it with 80 grit RO, then wash with soap and water...

Image

Let it dry, drink a beer and get your stuff together. You'll need a notched spreader, a putty knife or something to glop it out of the can, your roller and a wet rag for splatters.

Image

Then using a putty knife I slop some on, trying to guestimate how much I'll need. This stuff has the consistency of axle grease. About 12 goose dropping sized globs looks right...

Image

Using the notched spreader, spread the goop around evenly. I think it does better if you level it all in one direction before you roll it...

Image

Then use the textured roller and roll it out like you want it. You can change the texture by roller pressure, so you want to keep your pressure uniform and always roll in the same direction. Just back and forth, not crossways. I roll in the same direction that I spread.

Image


Now, and I mean right now, pull the tape. Don't go get a beer, don't go have a smoke, pull the tape :wink: And it will look beautiful, like this :D ...

Image

Wash your roller and get a beer now :lol:

I skip the next area, because it will need re-taping, and move to the next.....

Image

And tomorrow we'll tape and coat the area between those 2. And so on.
Easy huh 8)

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:29 pm
by gk108
I'm getting a quart of that stuff. It seems like a good idea in a little V bottom dinghy. :D

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:54 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote: We've got 2 days of experience now :lol: Almost as much as Obama
Larry, if your going to run you have my vote. :D Barry is a dufus :lol:

Your boat looks really nice. Gotta see it on the water sometime. Maybe in CR in the spring :doh:

Been down for a few weeks with port side knee injury. Hope to be back on the water soon.....

Richard

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:52 am
by JimW
When the C19 gets repainted she's gettin' the Kiwi Grip treatment!

Looks great and thanks for the lessons C. Larry.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:04 am
by Cracker Larry
Richard, good to hear from you! I was going to call you today and see if you were OK, hadn't heard anything from you in a couple of weeks. Hope that knee gets OK soon. Did you have surgery?

Yall order your KG from Joel, he gives me a sales commission :lol:

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:12 am
by colonialc19
Larry,
The boat is looking great, and the kiwi lesson was top notch also.

Thanks for taking the time to share that 8)

Daniel

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:23 am
by Spokaloo
Looks nice Larry, probably so simple even Palin could figure it out, with a couple lobbyists showing her how...

:lol:

E

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: If the economy keeps up like this, I might have to go back to work :(

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:41 pm
by Spokaloo
Ouch!

Luckily im still in the buying phase of my retirement savings.

E

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:54 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote: Hope that knee gets OK soon. Did you have surgery?
Not yet, Bones still has to do some tests. It hurts like the dickens though. I am going to find out what's going on this week. Hope it's as easy as building a boat :lol: I have not been offshore in a while for fear of hurting the darn thing more. Maybe I will hang on til after the election because dufus will surely suspend my co-pay :lol:.

I really like that Kiwi Grip :!: I wonder if it would stick to S3 that has been on for several months ? What are the particals made of and how big are they in diameter?

Keep up the good work my friend. I look forward to seeing the finished product 8) .

Richard

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
I really like that Kiwi Grip I wonder if it would stick to S3 that has been on for several months ? What are the particals made of and how big are they in diameter?
I'm sure it would stick, just sand it up with some 60 or 80 grit, clean it good and it will stick. Strangely there are no particles at all. It is completely smooth. The texture comes entirely from the roller.

I've been postponing knee surgery for 30 years. I quit jumping out of good airplanes a long time ago also. Good luck with that.

You'll see it soon. I plan to make a Keys/ Bahama trip with it this winter.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:29 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:
You'll see it soon. I plan to make a Keys/ Bahama trip with it this winter.
You may get a hitchhiker for a day. I swab decks, cut bait, fetch beers as needed. :lol: I can even drive a bit if the good captain needs a break. 8)

Richard

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:42 pm
by dborecky
Aripeka Angler wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote:
You'll see it soon. I plan to make a Keys/ Bahama trip with it this winter.
You may get a hitchhiker for a day. I swab decks, cut bait, fetch beers as needed. :lol: I can even drive a bit if the good captain needs a break. 8)

Richard
I can filet fish, open up beer bottles without a bottle opener and give Richard a break when he needs one... :D I'm in!!!!!! :wink:

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:51 pm
by cape man
Larry,

Nice job on the KG. Like the pattern, and fantastic tape job. Really makes all the difference on a deck, and the hardware looks sharp along the gunnels.

Scored a beautiful Yamaha bennacle from the same guy that gave me the T-top and windshield rails. Great having a friend that pulls stuff off rich guys boats when they upgrade. He really liked the pic of yours when you were measuring the fit. If you bring it down I'll try and get him to see it finished.

Richard, hope the knee mends quickly so when you come help me sand I don't feel too sorry for you.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
You may get a hitchhiker for a day. I swab decks, cut bait, fetch beers as needed. I can even drive a bit if the good captain needs a break.
I can vouch for all that :lol: Let's do it.

I can filet fish, open up beer bottles without a bottle opener and give Richard a break when he needs one... I'm in!!!!!!
Excellent traits in a crew member. Sounds like a plan. How about a Bahama sailfishing trip about January?
Nice job on the KG. Like the pattern, and fantastic tape job.
Thanks. I'm really pleased with the way the KG turned out :D The only trick to it is the taping. In hindsight, I wished I had used narrower tape, but I'm not doing it over and it's pretty dang good.

We had a nice change of weather finally, low 80s today. Sam and Lila pitched in and we finished her up..

Image

Sam is proud to be back to work :lol: He's showing off.

Image

You'd think he did it all by himself the way he acts..

Image

Image

A little more cool weather and he and I will finish this thing up..

Image
If you bring it down I'll try and get him to see it finished
We'll do that. Any chance he's got any bow railing laying around?

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:02 pm
by cedarock
Absolutely beautiful Larry! I like the non-skid...well, I like the whole boat!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:22 am
by RR
Magnificent :!: What a beautiful boat Larry :!: :D

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:16 am
by colonialc19
Larry, just looking at it makes me want to kill some fish :D

Another job well done :!:

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:27 am
by flatpicker
WOW 8O She's a beauty. Sam looks satisfied!!!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:28 am
by tech_support
nice work, and a good tutorial :)

I like the gray on gray, it will be kind on the eyes. You choice of sterling color will compliment it well. The matterhorn has a hint of gray/blue in it

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:40 am
by Old E.
Looks awesome!!! Great work.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:49 am
by JimW
Larry, Tell Sam he SHOULD be proud! It amazes me how much better a boat looks when you start putting on all those shiny new pieces of hardware we searched and scrounged to find. Not long now!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:58 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks to everyone :D

I love it when a plan comes together. Even if it takes a year longer than planned :lol:
The matterhorn has a hint of gray/blue in it
Great, I was hoping that's what I was seeing, but on a computer screen you never know exactly.

Joel, how long should I wait before I can safely walk on the Kiwi Grip? It time to start running some wires and filling up the holes in the console.
Larry, Tell Sam he SHOULD be proud!
He's been laying around in the A/C all summer while I've sweated over this thing. Now he wants the credit :doh: :lol:

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:32 am
by tech_support
Cracker Larry wrote: Joel, how long should I wait before I can safely walk on the Kiwi Grip? It time to start running s:
I woudl give it a day or two. If you have some cardboard boxes you can cut up, they make good protection from all the dirt

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:34 am
by gk108
Just curious, why would you have used narrower tape to mask the KG?

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:47 am
by Gramps
Simply amazing Larry! Between you and Cape the OD's are looking very tempting.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:27 am
by Cracker Larry
I woudl give it a day or two.
Great, I was hoping you'd say that. I think I'm going to rest my back for a day or 2 :D
Simply amazing Larry!
Thanks Gramps. I think so too. The credit goes to the KG, it doesn't take any special skills to get a great job, unlike painting 8)

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:33 am
by Cracker Larry
Just curious, why would you have used narrower tape to mask the KG?
I don't know, GK. :doh: I think it may be visually more appealing if the lines were thinner and the non-skid areas would be a little larger. Not worth worrying about. I'm not an artist.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:43 am
by gk108
Maybe not an artist, but you are close enough. I like the looks of what you have. For one thing, there doesn't appear to be any place on the cockpit sole where one can stand flat-footed and not have some non-skid under you. The painted areas will promote good drainage and easy cleaning in the corners. Functional and aesthetically pleasing. 8)

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you sir, that was the plan. There is non skid everywhere you can stand and enough waterways to make cleaning easy. It's a lot easier to wash blood and scales from the bow to the scuppers if they have a slick path to follow. I used 2" tape for these and was thinking 1 or 1.5" may have done the drainage job while providing a little more non-skid surface. No matter, next boat.

My wife says it's a disorder I have :doh:

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:36 pm
by Lower
Larry...boat looks awesome!! Getting closer and closer! Like the scuppers too. I followed the build but somehow never saw much on that. Looks like a nice simple way of draining.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Lower. I appreciate that.

These cockpit drains are really temporary until I determine the actual waterline. If this works out then I'll replace the drains with true scuppers, but I hesitate to do that and then find out later they are too low. The backing plates are sized for 3X5 scupper drains. That's why they are so big.

So for now I've got 1 1/4 drain tubes that I can plug. This should handle about anything except for breaking waves. Time will tell where we go from there, but I'm hoping the big scuppers will work out.

There's also a 2000 GPH pump in the sump :wink:

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:45 pm
by topwater
outstanding as usual cl 8O
its really coming together now, hardware look's great.
cant wait to see all the holes filled in on the console.
tell sam he did a great job on the inside so he can get
started with the sterling while you relax :!:

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:25 pm
by Dougster
My wife says it's a disorder I have Doh!
Some disorder, to build a boat like that.

Recommends twelve ounces of fermented hops and grain prn Dougster

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:11 pm
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:I love it when a plan comes together.
So where will Fireman Fred get installed? One or two of them?

Looks fantastic, and I'm sure Sam would add, *As it should*. 8)

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Some disorder, to build a boat like that.
She would still disagree. :doh: Too many step pads she says. Might have to step from anywhere says I. I want you to step on a frame. Thats stupid says she :doh:
Recommends twelve ounces of fermented hops and grain prn Dougster
Me too.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
So where will Fireman Fred get installed? One or two of them?
Wish I could find my pic of that, wonder how big a pump it would take to run it :?:

Thanks KS :D [/quote]

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
tell sam he did a great job on the inside
Sam says thanks. He'll take credit, praise, abuse, almost anything.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:31 am
by cape man
Image


Larry, as everyone has said, BEAUTIFUL. Couple questions...

What are the two screw holes just in front of the hole where your controls and steering come out of the locker?

Does the center drain at the back of the sole go to the bilge or out the transom?

Know you are waiting to see where the water line hits before finishing the scuppers, but looks like you have over 1/2" of water standing back there before it goes out. What's that about? Know you have an answer that is solidly based on experience or lots of pondering, just curious.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:16 am
by mecreature
man everything sure looks like it goes together.

very cool.. the weather is only getting better...


wondering the same things as cape man?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:51 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Craig and mecreature :D mecreature, you got a real name :doh:
What are the two screw holes just in front of the hole where your controls and steering come out of the locker?
They are for the mounting bolts for the fuel filter housing that will be in that locker.
Does the center drain at the back of the sole go to the bilge or out the transom?
Both, it goes to the sump where there is a 2000 GPH pump, and an 1 1/4 drain plug out the transom. That drain now has a brass tube in it.
Know you are waiting to see where the water line hits before finishing the scuppers, but looks like you have over 1/2" of water standing back there before it goes out. What's that about? Know you have an answer that is solidly based on experience or lots of pondering, just curious.
Yeah, it's about 3/8" high. I needed to leave some wood under it so I'd have something to work with when I cut out for the permanent scuppers because they have a flange. It does leave a little water in the back, but it can drain to the sump from the center and be pumped out, or drained thru the transom.

Sam wanted to show you what we worked on yesterday...

Image

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:08 am
by mecreature
that looks unbelievably good Larry....


Jeff 8)

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:12 am
by Cracker Larry
Thank you, Jeff :!:

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:47 am
by dborecky
Larry,

Looking fantastic!!! 8)

Keep up the good work and get that boat wet...

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:03 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Derrick. How did your paint look yesterday after it dried good?
I meant to ask you Saturday also, did you look at that XF 20 plywood?

No rush to get it wet, I've got another good boat ready to go with a full tank of gas 8)

I've got to order nuts, bolts and srcrews today. About 300 of them. Anyone know a good priced source?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:10 am
by dborecky
I didn't take a really good look at it but it does have some brush marks and some minor runs in places. The light color helps a lot and I think the KG will take your attention away from these minor things. The outside Sterling looks awesome compared to it. I think the S3 is more of a great work boat finish type paint. Better then work boat actually but no where near as fine as the Sterling.

I never made it over to check out the plywood. I was worried about the cuts not being right and not knowing about it till I was putting it together then having to get new ply which would eat up any savings.... I may still make it over there though....

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:15 am
by Cracker Larry
I was hoping to paint some sterling this week, but it's real windy and the forcast calls for the same thru Friday. Have to wait for calmer times.

Oh, BTW, happy autumn equinox to everyone. Fall moved in down here right on schedule and we're supposed to be high 70's to low 80's all week :D Sure feels better than 95!

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:12 pm
by cape man
Awesome console! Love the white gauges.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:30 pm
by flatpicker
Wow! That console is super nice!! 8)

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks. They are actually gray, like everything else. Teleflex Sahara series.

Pulling wire today and I've got another 1 kicking my butt. I wish I had put in larger chases :doh:

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:27 pm
by topwater
Very nice CL, you and sam do real nice work.
i noticed the winch and two cleats on the fore deck
nice set up.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:30 pm
by chicagoross
"I wish I had put in larger chases"...I remember being awed by the plumbing job! :D

The boat is absolutely beautiful. Work of art, Larry!

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:27 pm
by plumbertuck
Looking great ! I can't wait to see it in the water !

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:09 pm
by gk108
Larry, look at boltdepot.com for fasteners. :wink:

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank all. She's coming together pretty now.

GK thanks for that, I'll check them out but I ordered almost everything I needed from Jamestown Marine this morning. They have an amazing selection at pretty good prices.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... &page=GRID

I got almost all the wiring pulled today, I think everything except the engine harness, which I don't have. The #6 2 conductor was a tough pull in 1"conduit but we got it finally. Also pulled the steering cable, and got the steering cable connected to the head. Another wrestling match but it lost :lol: My cable is a little long, but I don't think 1' less would work either, so we'll have to make this do. Still moving along anyway.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:28 pm
by Dougster
It's just a beautiful looking console. I don't even know what all those gauges are! Speed, tach, trim, battery,...? I like the clean look of that breaker box too, what kind is it? You're gonna have make a habit of launching that thing before dawn else you'll never get on the water for all the gawkers and questions. Really it's unbelievable looking to me.

Admiring your work Dougster

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Your's will look just as good Dougster, thanks :wink:

Gauges are tach, that's the big one. No speed, water speed is useless, I'll get speed from GPS and LORAN. Top left is temp, top right is trim, bottom left is fuel, center is volts, right is hourmeter. Nothing fancy.

Switch panel is made by Blue Seas. They are the best, a little pricey but mil spec and worth it. It's rated for total submersion.

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:16 am
by cape man
Nothing fancy.
Yeah. Nothing fancy... Dude its gorgeous! I may put a fuel gauge in at launch! Great job.

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:14 am
by Murry
She's beautiful Larry. The hardware and console look fantastic :!:

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:13 pm
by Fred in Wisc
Haven't checked this thread for a while. Pardon me as I pick up my jaw and wipe the drool off the keyboard. That's a beuatiful watercraft. Boat porn, my wife would say.

Fred in Wisc

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: Thanks all.

Been working on the wiring the last couple of days. I think more ponder than work, but it's progressing :D Pictures tomorrow of that.

Wind is still blowing 35 kts, has been for 4 days. I think it will quit tomorrow, so it's almost time to finish the paint, moons right too. Which means I am almost finished with sandpaper. Now that's a mile stone :!: No, it's a league stone. :D

Also just got a present from the big brown truck, so we've got all the bolts, nuts, screws and washers to get everything attached for good. Probably enough for 2 more boats also, judging by the feel of the box. Bolts and nuts are a lot cheaper by the 100 :wink:

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:40 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
Hope that the wind has died down there from all you had last week. I can only hope that I have an idea about what goes where on my wiring 8O :?:
Please forgive this short thread jack, but do you know off hand how much of the bottom of your 16 is truly flat (i.e. no curve in it going toward the bow) I am having a time figuring this out. You can answer this here or if you want to put it on my thread that would be OK too. Thanks in advance and

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
do you know off hand how much of the bottom of your 16 is truly flat (i.e. no curve in it going toward the bow)
8 feet exactly,Robbie. The curve up starts immediately forward of the splice point of the side plywood sheets.

Still working on my wiring. Lot of wires here for a little boat. Not progressing as fast as anticipated again. I think we'll finish it tomorrow :doh:

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:55 pm
by TomW
Larry, just back from Iowa all I can say is wow :!: Glad you went with the white guages, I'm going that way and you showing them off first just confirmed my decision. :wink:

Good luck with the painting hope the wind dies down as expected. Have you predrilled and epoxied all those screw and bolt holes yet.

The Mississippi came to within 7" of getting in the cabin in June. We raised it just enough. It did raise the catwalk at the levy end so had to reposition it. The Corp of Engineers dumped a nice 3' birm of sand on top of the levy it is so pretty to have to look at out the back door. At least most of the windows face the river. 400' of the only paved road buckled from the latest flooding when Ike dropped 13-15" of rain in 2 days so we are back taking the back roads to the cabin. At least we can get there. The town across the river, Gulfport, IL where the levy broke still is unliveable.

Enough of that hope all is well at your place and love the way your boat is coming along. Think I counted 6 pages to catch up on all that went on while I was gone.

Tom

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:03 am
by Cracker Larry
Have you predrilled and epoxied all those screw and bolt holes yet.
Months ago :D

Glad you're back safe and no damage to the house! Back to wiring.....

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, we've about got that console wiring taken care of, and got a few other things done along the way.

We finished up the door to the console arms locker and installed it...

Image

And we got the depth finder transducer permanently bonded to the hull. I hope this thing works out, wouldn't want to grind it off of there :help: Used a plastic butter container for a mold.

I'll get these pump wires squared away today. We pulled a 5 conductor cable here to give us some spare circuits....

Image

We ran conduits and got all the wiring pulled up into the upper section of the console. Every wire connection will be higher than the gunwales, so even if the boat completely floods, all console wiring will be above the water. Notice numerous blood stains :? Not much skin left on my arms.

Image

And I spent about 3 days with my head and arms stuck in here making and connecting all these harnesses..whew glad to climb out of there for a while. :D
can only hope that I have an idea about what goes where on my wiring


Robbie, it can get confusing. Yours won't be as bad as this though :wink:


Image

This is about finished except for engine and T-top attachments. All the wire and terminals are marine grade, the terminals all have heat shrink tubing on them.

We got all the electrical components from http://bestboatwire.com/

Now pondering what to do next. Bolt on a lot of hardware, or get ready to let those Sterling elves loose. :doh: Weather looks good all week for painting. :D

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:19 pm
by Gramps
Dang Larry! It just gets better and better! You make me a very jealous person. :lol:

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:24 pm
by TomW
Nice clean installation Larry, looks really nice. :D What I don't see is a fuse panel for the circuits, just not room to get it in the photos? Have fun painting, or paining. :lol:

Tom

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall!
What I don't see is a fuse panel for the circuits, just not room to get it in the photos?
Tom look closely at the switch panel :lol: Here, I'll do it for you..

Image

There is a fuse under every switch.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:41 pm
by donk
When the picture of the console popped up I thought "damn that sure looks good"!!! That is one clean installation. It's hard to believe it talkes all those wires to run a boat.

Thanks for taking the time to take the pictures and explain all the steps, You've helped quite a few builders with their, I can do that feelings.

You're almost there. I know a bunch of us are looking forward to seeing her on the water.

don

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:23 pm
by flatpicker
That's some serious wiring there. Looks very neat and professional. Can't wait to see all the hardware installed. 8)

Marty

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:46 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Awesome job CL, very professional. Don't forget the drain hoses or plugs for your beverage holders :D I'd hate to see any water get in there.

What about a water pressure gauge? In these parts, that one is second only to the tach for importance.

You'd best slow up a bit, or after the Sterling yo may find yourself all done!

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:42 pm
by robbiro
Thanks for the info on the hull. Larry. The electrics on mine will have 6 circuits not counting the leads for the big motor and the wire has already been pulled through the conduit, but not connected yet 8O, can't get to it yet (hull is upside down).
That is one CLEAN and I do mean CLEAN :!: :!: :!: wiring instillation, great job.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:39 pm
by Dougster
My God Larry, I had to blow through it, not look too close or get overwhelmed and start thinkin' this is too much for me (nah, that's an exaggeration, I refuse to do that, but you see what I'm sayin'). I've said it before but really it's inspiring. I have one hour on the water for every 500 of yours and it shows so clearly in your build. My only real concern is that you'll finish the build and quit posting!!

Says you got it goin' on Dougster

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:44 pm
by chicagoross
Awesome!

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:07 pm
by TomW
Sorry Larry to overwhelmed by what you had done while I was gone and missed them in all the fine details. Knew you would have them just didn't know where. :D That is a nice switch panel.

Tom

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:25 pm
by cedarock
So neat and orderly! Looks great but it reminds me of how disorganized behind my console looks. :( Atleast, my wiring is hidden behind a round hatch cover. If it looked as nice as yours, I would have left it open for everyone to see! :)

Looking forward to see how the transducer works. I mounted my transom mounted transducer in a short of 6" pvc pipe epoxied to the bottom and covered it in mineral oil. It works great up to planing speeds, then it goes crazy.

Absolutely beautiful!

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:09 pm
by gk108
Lemme hold that Sharpie and I'll sign off on that wiring job :lol:

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
I appreciate the comments everyone :D
Looks very neat and professional.
:lol: That's because I've done professional wiring for a long time. Second to boats, wires are what I know best. This isn't the first time I've wired a boat :wink:
Don't forget the drain hoses or plugs for your beverage holders
Thanks LL, Sam's got them cut and ready, just didn't want to work around them.
What about a water pressure gauge?
Good question :doh: I thought about it but in my area they just aren't used much, except in the occasional tunnel hull with a jack plate and external water pick ups. I've never had one, and always figured that if my temps were good and my pee tube is flowing then I must have water pressure. Am I missing something? I'm open to suggestions about that, never had much experience with them...
The electrics on mine will have 6 circuits not counting the leads for the big motor
On a GF 16 8O Cool 8) Mine only has 1.
or get overwhelmed and start thinkin' this is too much for me (nah, that's an exaggeration. I refuse to do that,
Yeah, that's all it takes is the want to. You can do it, I'll help you. Not as complicated as it looks. Heck, pay my expenses and I'll come wire it for you :lol:
It works great up to planing speeds, then it goes crazy.

Absolutely beautiful!
Thanks CR. I haven't seen many boats where the transducer worked well at planing speed, no matter the mount. I guess it's usually air bubbles along the hull that cause that. It's all in the location, but there's only one location in this boat with outside hull access, so we'll hope for the best and change it if it's terrible 8)

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:43 pm
by colonialc19
I've always had water a presure gauge, but its peeing or it aint. The only thing I really use it for lately is a gauge as to when to change my impellar.

The wiring looks great, the whole boat is outstanding :wink:

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:17 am
by cape man
You forgot the circuait for the stainless blender! You expect us to drink our daquiris over the rocks! Beautiful job. Inspiring.

I think I'll be able to afford a fuel gauge by launch :cry: Love the gauges.

I'm with you on the water pressure gauge (motor running well, pee port working, all's fine), and just replace the impellor on a regular schedule. Can see where a gauge telling you it is fine might save some bucks in the long term :idea:

Are you around the first week of Nov? Heading up to VA to cull some white tail at my sister's and may be able to stop on the way back and take a look.

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:29 am
by D2Maine
nm

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:00 am
by Cracker Larry
8O Wow, that's a blender 8)
You expect us to drink our daquiris over the rocks!
We don't drink no fru-fru drinks on this boat :? I do need a power outlet though :idea:

Are you around the first week of Nov? Heading up to VA to cull some white tail at my sister's and may be able to stop on the way back and take a look.
I should be here, don't have any plans otherwise. Stop on in. If you don't get a deer up there we can probably find one around here.

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:44 am
by Lucky_Louis
Water pressure gauge: Yes, for the reasons stated like impeller condition and fully clear water intake. I don't spend a lot of time looking behind me to check a pee stream when I'm motoring at 30 knots. Around here, a lot of so called 'green' boaters and fisherman think it's OK to throw plastic bait bags and the like into our water. Even kelp or broadleaf seaweed can cause trouble. They are pretty much neutrally buoyant so will sit right around prop depth and wrap around an outboard leg with uncanny precision. Most outboards are alarmed for high temp and/or low water pressure but I like the gauge. You get a feel for where it should be a given rpm, then you can tell immediately if something's amiss. I actually have two - the analog gauge that came with the set and my Merc Smartcraft System Monitor digital gauge. The digital gauge has been a great investment. It interfaces with the GPS and gives fuel consumption, fuel consumed, fuel remaining, real time range based on throttle setting/speed, water temp, water pressure, oil level, rpm, hours, and speed.

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:53 am
by Dimitris
The electrical installation is really inspiring. Thanks for the pictures. You set the standard.

Come on, get her in the water, please.

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
The digital gauge has been a great investment. It interfaces with the GPS and gives fuel consumption, fuel consumed, fuel remaining, real time range based on throttle setting/speed, water temp, water pressure, oil level, rpm, hours, and speed.
Yes, I intend to get one of those when I buy the motor. They are nice, and will pay for themselves in fuel savings.

I know exactly what you mean about the ice bags and such. :cry: I think those are worldwide now. But I don't mind looking back, it's part of my normal scan anyway, and I've never sucked up a baggie that I didn't hear and feel as soon as it happens. I can see where it would be nice to have, just not on my necessary list.
Come on, get her in the water, please.
Good things take time Dimitris :lol: Thanks.

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:47 pm
by bernd1
Hi Larry,

do you work day and night? The speed of your work is unbelieveable.
In my opinion your boat will see the water this month.

I appreciate you are mounting a 75HP engine on it - I'am right :?:

Let's see.... :wink:

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:47 pm
by Lucky_Louis
They are nice, and will pay for themselves in fuel savings.
You bet. I need to take a notepad and jot down a bunch of speed vs. gph to figure out where my OB17's sweet spot is. Seat of my pants tells me it's around 4000-4200 rpm at 26 knots. That's 3.2 gph. That's just over 9 mpg by my reckoning. 8)

I suspect you'll do better than that with the flat bottom.

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hi Larry,

do you work day and night?
Sometimes, but today I haven't hit a lick. Well, maybe just a few little ones.
In my opinion your boat will see the water this month.
Nope, I think she will be a New Years baby :lol: I've still got a lot of details to attend to, like some teak trim work and such. I'm not finished with her yet :wink:
I appreciate you are mounting a 75HP engine on it - I'am right


No, 90hp is the plan :lol:
I need to take a notepad and jot down a bunch of speed vs. gph to figure out where my OB17's sweet spot is.
The beauty of the computer is that it's always correct for boat weight, trim, sea conditions and such. Your idea is great for rule of thumb, but never as accurate as real time fuel flow. With practice you can feel when it's at the sweet spot, but the learning curve is much shorter with the digital inputs as reinforcement 8)

It's nice when you can visually see that backing off the throttle 200 rpms will result in a 2 mph decrease in speed, but 1/2 the fuel burn 8)
I suspect you'll do better than that with the flat bottom.
Yes, probably a little. I'm hoping for a 200 mile range with 40 gallons. 5 mpg is the target, worst case, which I hope to achieve at about 4 gph and 25 mph., leaving a good fuel reserve. Anything more than that would be great :!: I doubt I'd hardly ever be able to run a flat bottom boat much faster than 30 in the ocean. Seldom faster than 20.

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:55 pm
by topwater
nice job on the wiring cl 8O
thats the one part of building a boat that i fear the most.
again great job you made it look easy.

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:14 pm
by Murry
Looking good :!:

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:47 pm
by JimW
Cracker Larry wrote:
Image

can only hope that I have an idea about what goes where on my wiring


Weather looks good all week for painting. :D
I have wiring envy now!

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
I have wiring envy now!
:lol: Yall are too funny. I'd rather wire 12 boats than sand and paint one :wink:

Which is why I still haven't started the outside painting. Just can't get the spirit to move me, or Sam either :doh:

We have been making progress on the details though. Pictures to soon follow :D

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:41 pm
by tech_support
Cracker Larry wrote: :lol: Yall are too funny. I'd rather wire 12 boats than sand and paint one :wink:
SOLD :!: :D I hate rigging

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Get it to me Joel, I'll rig it for you.

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:05 pm
by TomW
Me to, me to! :D :lol:

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: We can work something out, Tom.

As we said earlier, the painting elves aren't ready yet. Hope they get at it soon :lol: So we've carried on with wiring and hardware.

All the deck hardware is now bedded and bolted. Even though we had pre-drilled and filled and re-drilled all the holes, now they are full of fairing compound, paint and mud dauber nests, so we drilled them all out again. Then covered the bases with sealant (5200), bolt threads get sealant, then secured with oversized fender washes and nylon insert locknuts.

Here is the winch going on....

Image

The stern cleats are set up for heavy duty towing. I don't fool around with cleats, I've seen them break :help: ...

Image


These cleats get a 4X6X 3/8 threaded backing plate. Fender washers won't do here. They aren't coming loose :!:

Image

Ingore the mess in that hatch, lots of things going on in there still...

Image

Fuel filter housing is visable above. You can see to that we've been installing hatches. Again, all the holes have to be re-drilled, sealed and screwed. We're just drilling out filler and quick fair now.

Image

I've got 10 out of the 12 hatches installed, ran out of sealant.

You can see above the grated hatch over the bilge sump. The pump was a little taller than the sump, so allowances had to be made :lol:

Got the wiring finished in that area for now...note that all screws have sealant on the threads. Every screw :wink:

Image

I should have vaccumed before taking pictures :doh:

Again here we keep all wiring connection as high as possible, tucked up tight under the motorwell cover, away from moisture and well above the sump.

In the bow area we finished up all the plumbing and wiring and got those 5 hatches nailed down.

We installed the fuel cut off valve at the tank before installing that hatch...yall do know it needs a shut off valve, right :wink:

Image

Let me think what else we did this week...

Oh yeah, I've been learning how to weld aluminum. My neighbor is a master welder and I needed some welding done on my T-top and a few other things. He said he'd do it all for free, but I told him I wanted to do it and him teach me how. And filch me some materials from the yacht yard :wink:

So here is one of my first aluminum welding projects. Still needs a little work but fits like a glove 8) This started as a scrap of deck plate off a USN minesweeper 8)

Image

I reckon that will hold about anything I hang on the back :lol: I'm going to prime and paint it before it goes on permanently. We're also working on some T-top mods and antenna mounts. Too ugly to show yet.

I think that's the most of it for this week. Maybe those elves will break out the Sterling in the next few days :roll:

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:53 pm
by TomW
Larry looks super. The time it has taken you to do it right will pay off in the long run.

Larry rigging I can do, the fairing and painting like you forget it even though I have hed to do it on the cabinets I build I still hate it. When I said, me to, I meant I agree with you. Sorry about that. I've been wiring for ages. I may need advice on wiring starter switch and guages. That I have never done. But I should be able to able to figure it out. I've wired interconnected computer systems, it shouldn't be much harder.

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:28 pm
by Dougster
Sure looks good Larry, and as usual, kinda intimidating 8O . I haven't thought about wiring or fuel tank yet as I'm not there, but looking at your tank, ignorant me doesn't get it. Seems to be three hoses going into the thing. Fill, outlet to motor, and??? Oh I just thought, vent? Dunno. Is that white wire off the smaller hose carrying a ground wire and power for some sensor? Jeez I got a lot to ponder when I get there.

Rigging challenged Dougster

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:36 pm
by cape man
You make it look easy compared to me making it look hard! Fantastic stuff man.

My friend had a good one...what do you get when you mix two hardners? A softner.

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dougster yes, fill, vent and feed hoses. The wire is in a separate conduit, it's the sending unit for the fuel gauge. The picture cuts it off but there is a 3rd wire for grounding. It is a 3 conductor cable.

Craig, :lol: that's good, what can you do but laugh. Is this your friend that I met?

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:17 am
by Cracka
The boat looks fantastic Larry......When ya finished, stick it in a container and send it on down to me and I'll see if I can put some aussie fish blood on it :wink: :wink:

Mick

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:55 am
by chicagoross
It's still awesome, Larry. :D I guess you don't get tired of hearing that. I'm wondering if we're going to see some hand-carved hardwood trim next, although I know you're just building to be as functional, reliable, and bomb-proof as possible!

Dougster, don't let the wiring scare you; each wire basically goes from point A to point B. Do them one by one. Don't expect it to look anything like Larry's, though! :D

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:16 am
by cape man
Is this your friend that I met?
No, believe it or not I actually have another friend :lol: My boat has almost turned into a community project, with lots of folks stopping by to help, and people offering all kind of goodies (free epoxy, cloth, hardware, etc.). Building a boat brings out the best in folks.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:58 am
by bhudso
i just got plans for od18 i am trying to find out if the sole 16 feet and are thw stringer 14.4

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:35 am
by Cracker Larry
That sounds about right. The dimensions are on the plans, if you can't find them let me know and I'll look them up.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:47 am
by cape man
Those are the dimensions for the sole and stringers. The sole is laid out so you cut the curves out of the 4 separate pieces of ply laid sideways (4 X 4'), and the stringers do not run all the way to the bow tip.

Here's a pic of my stringers laid out (Larry's were a LOT prettier).

Image

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:00 am
by Cracker Larry
Not really, it's just Sam :lol:

Image

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:31 am
by Cracker Larry
We're getting closer and closer. The interior is finished except for some teak trim, and the T-top. I've got moldings on order, should be here Monday I hope :D

Sam got her all cleaned up from the wiring, hatches and hardware installations....

Image

Image

We're running out of excuses not to paint :doh:

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:51 am
by ks8
Sometimes it is a good thing to run out of excuses... :lol: 8)

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:02 pm
by flatpicker
She's looks like a fish killin machine. 8O Love all the custom detail and hardware.

Marty

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:57 pm
by tech_support
Larry, your going to want to put some plastic or tarps up to keep the dust down. With a super glassy paint every spec will show, or you have to buff it out later.

If you were closer, I would come paint the boat. :)

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Flatspicker :D

Oh, Joel I wish you hadn't said that. Sounds like a lot of trouble but you're probably right. I was hoping to get by with just hosing everything down in the area. We've got some tarps so I guess we'll make a paint booth. Too hot for that now though :|

Started sanding that outside primer today to get ready. Man that stuff is hard after it sits for a year or so :help: It is the old style S3 primer, that's how long it's been on. I think I'm going to give it a coat of the new primer before the Sterling. I've still got plenty and it will give me more stalling time.

Thanks for the offer on painting, but I'll get er done. Good bad or ugly, she'll be mine :lol:

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:47 pm
by TomW
Larry she is flat dang outstanding. Well done. Joel is right build yourself a paint booth after you get all the sanding done you have done such a great job don't skimp now.

Best to you and yours.

Tom

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:09 pm
by bhudso
when you first started cutting out the sole how did you find your center line also is each side of the center line the same sizes im just starting out an i am trying to understand all the mesurments so i want waste wood and also when you put your stringers what was your mesurment to get them right dont want to sound dum this is my first time

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:41 pm
by cape man
Inspirational.

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:23 am
by bhudso
thanks for your commit as

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:41 am
by Cracker Larry
thanks for your commit as
:doh: Excuse me :?:
when you first started cutting out the sole how did you find your center line
The center line is half the distance of the total width. On the plans.
also is each side of the center line the same sizes


Only if you want your boat to be the same size on both sides.
also when you put your stringers what was your mesurment to get them right


The measurement on the plans. 10" each side of center.

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:50 pm
by bhudso
THANK YOU MY PLANS OR MISSING SOME OF THE MESURMENTS

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Probably not. I suspect they are just like mine and all there :lol: Some of the measurements are hard to locate on the plans though, and are scattered around. It takes some time with them to get all the info.

Forgive me for being vague on measurements, but I haven't looked at my plans in months. If you can't find something after you spend some time looking, let me know, or post a question under the Power Boats forum and I or someone will look it up.

We seem to have a communication problem here. There is only one rule on my thread. Nobody is rude to each other. Follow that and I'll help you all you need.

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:48 pm
by cape man
THANK YOU MY PLANS OR MISSING SOME OF THE MESURMENTS
Larry's right. They're all there, just spend some time looking at them. Was showing my brother in law the plans today. The centerline measurements are marked from one side of the plywood sheets (4 of them lined up side by side), and then the lines for the edges are marked from the center line out on one side. Just mirror it on the other side. Scared the heck out of me the first time I looked at as well, so don't feel bad. I wanted more measurements and maybe even a radius between points. Follow the directions and read the tutorials on how to cut the ply wood, etc. Do you have your own thread going? The help here is fantastic, and there's lots of us that owe others the same kind of advice we recieved.

Sorry for the hijack Larry, but wasn't very long ago I was in the same place wondering what the heck I was looking at!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sorry for the hijack Larry,


No foul 8) :lol:

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:12 pm
by Q
Sorry I've been gone for so long, no excuses...court stuff.

What a beatiful boat Larry! Phenomenol. And the thread is like something to save forever....as is the boat. I simply can't wait till she tastes salt....

Q

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Q, I appreciate that 8)

Glad you're back :D

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:25 am
by Cracker Larry
Sam and I are still plugging away, literally.

We spent the weekend getting ready for final painting. First we gave the outside of the hull a good sanding and cleaning. It had been sitting a year with 4 coats of primer (old style S3), so it's got banged and scuffed up, plus we drilled and filled a lot of holes in her. After sanding and cleaning, we masked it again and gave her 2 more coats of primer (new style).

Then I let her set for 4 days to dry, and sanded lightly one more time with 220. She's ready for final painting, just needs a wipe down. If all goes well, I should be completely finished with hull sanding 8) :D :!: Finally!

Image

As you can see, we've also been working on some teak trim molding. Sam and I decided that although the boat looked good, it was too cold and sterile. Like the inside of a new refrigerator. So we're using some teak to warm things up a little bit.

It's time consuming work, fitting the parts, drilling pilot hoes, drilling plug holes, bedding screws....

Image

After we get a piece bedded and screwed, then we glue teak plugs over all the screw heads...

Image

After the glue sets, we trim the wooden plugs a little proud....

Image

Then we will sand them down smooth, which we haven't done yet. Still have about 50' of molding left to install, so we'll keep plugging away :lol:
She's quickly losing the refrigerator look 8)

If anyone is interested in teak wood, I've found a great supplier...

http://www.buckwoodcraft.com/teak_molding.htm

The prices are about half of any I've found on the web, the quality is outstanding, first class beautiful, great selection and shipping is cheap and fast. 2 days from order to receiving. 8)

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:35 am
by TomW
Larry the teak adds a lot. Very nice touch! :D

Tom

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:03 am
by ks8
Ah... that's better. Perfect touch. 8)

Now that the console is finished, can we get another shot of those cup holders?

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:28 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry the teak adds a lot.
Sure does. About $300 8O
Very nice touch!
Thanks Tom!
Ah... that's better. Perfect touch.


Thank you KS, we think so too. This is about the only thing we've put on here that is totally useless, but it's worth a few pounds and a few days work.
can we get another shot of those cup holders?
Of course, just for you :lol:

Image

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:43 am
by gk108
Totally useless? That last picture shows a piece on the console that could end up being worth the whole cost of the teak. Flat space on top of a console will collect all sorts of valuable things and a little toe rail goes a long way towards preserving the value of those items. :)

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:47 am
by topwater
there you go raising the bar again :!:
it's looking great as usual, boats should have some wood
accents. don't want it to look like a milk jug.

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:37 pm
by WobblyLegs
Larry, haven't looked for a while (again) but have to comment - that boat is looking fantastic.

Tim.

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Flat space on top of a console will collect all sorts of valuable things and a little toe rail goes a long way towards preserving the value of those items.
That's exactly what that's one's for GK :wink: Thanks. It's not all useless, the piece across the motorwell bulkhead protects the edge grain of the 3/4 ply, and there's a piece across the bow bulkead to protect the edge from anchor chain coming in and out the locker. Some of them are drip strips over hatches or vents. Some of them just do nothing :lol:

Thanks for the comments guys :D Glad to see you back Tim 8)

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:13 pm
by ks8
Oh yeah! The pencil rail is definitely worth its weight. That is the reason I have this ridge around the top... sunglasses, lures, pencil, screwdriver, etc.

Image

With the console top angled forward slightly, the forward lip holds the pencils, and stuff well, and the other lip is just in case we're rolling around a bit.

I see three holes at upper left and right. What gadgetry goes there? T-top mounts? Do the cup holders drain anywhere or are they the sponge 'em out variety?

And even more importantly... how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

:)

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
I see three holes at upper left and right. What gadgetry goes there? T-top mounts? Do the cup holders drain anywhere or are they the sponge 'em out variety?
Yes, those holes are for the T-top support brackets. The cup holders have rubber hose drains leading to the bottom (wet) section of the console.

how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
(Pure plagarism on my part)

This is difficult to question answer. The amount of wood that woodchucks would chuck on a given day varies greatly with the individual woodchuck. According to a Wall Street Journal article, New York State wildlife expert Richard Thomas found that a woodchuck could chuck around 35 cubic feet of dirt in the course of digging a burrow. Thomas reasoned that if a woodchuck could chuck wood, he would chuck an amount equal to 700 pounds.

Some say it depends on three factors:


The woodchuck's desire to chuck said wood.

The woodchuck's need to chuck the aforementioned wood.

The woodchuck's ability to chuck the wood.
Others say:


He would chuck, he would, as much as he could, if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

If he could chuck wood, the woodchuck would chuck as much as he could!

A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

A woodchuck would chuck all the wood that the woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

If a woodchuck could chuck wood, he would and should chuck wood. But if woodchucks can't chuck wood, they shouldn't and wouldn't chuck wood. Though were I a woodchuck, and I chucked wood, I would chuck wood with the best woodchucks that chucked wood.

If a woodchuck could chuck wood, then s/he'd chuck all the wood, s/he'd chuck and chuck and chuck and chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

It would chuck the amount of wood that she sells seashells on the seashore divided by how many pickles Peter Piper picks.

One quarter of a sycamore if you give him a quarter for every quarter of the sycamore he cut.

It might depend on how many female woodchucks were present. Or, it could depend on whether the woodchuck's mother-in-law was around or not. If she was, he'd be chucking all day. If not, he'd be watching the football game.

Some maintain that woodchucks could not and would not chuck wood at all.

It depends on how good his dentures are!

A woodchuck, would chuck, as much wood, as a woodchuck, could chuck, If a woodchuck could chuck wood. But unfortunately, woodchucks do not chuck wood.

About 5.72 fluid litres of wood

About as many boards as the Mongol hoards would hoard if the Mongol hordes did hoard boards.

Um....... 23????



Tons. More than you can count. Honestly. No one can chuck more would than a woodchuck.

If the woodchucks name was Maurice, then it could chuck all the wood that it wants to. However, if its name is Frank, no chucking would be for it.




Due to the average size of a wood chuck and the general density of wood (not including cork) if a wood chuck could chuck wood it would probably get through about 6.573 pounds per day, assuming the wood chuck is functioning correctly.

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:53 pm
by Gramps
That teak really rounds out the boat Larry, looks fantastic. I hope to see her at the builder's meet this year.

Due to the average size of a wood chuck and the general density of wood (not including cork) if a wood chuck could chuck wood it would probably get through about 6.573 pounds per day, assuming the wood chuck is functioning correctly.
Who asked the engineer?

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:43 pm
by flatpicker
Cracker Larry wrote:
If a woodchuck could chuck wood, he would and should chuck wood. But if woodchucks can't chuck wood, they shouldn't and wouldn't chuck wood. Though were I a woodchuck, and I chucked wood, I would chuck wood with the best woodchucks that chucked wood.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:49 pm
by ks8
:)

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:07 am
by cape man
Man you gotta lay off some... She is just TOO SWEET, and you're going to force me to keep my scow in the barn.

Seriously, love it. Perfect accent, and who cares about function! She's going to be a boat for everyone to strive for. Can't think of anything else that an OD18 could have to improve her.

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:26 am
by JimW
Me Likey the Teakie! Especially the motorwell trim. I did mine like that with some nice dark mahogany. I had a bunch of mahogany from old crates and pallets that some navy equipment was shipped in after the naval base in the Philippines closed down. Used it all over the C19 for cleats and such.

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:32 pm
by Dougster
Thanks for the link to the Teak supplier. I didn't even think about finding so many molding choices. It adds tremendously to the look and feel of your boat. Beautiful thing. Funny how the eye wants wood in a boat. As much fun as you've had building her, I can sure imagine how much more there is to come on the water.

Says good times here but better on down the road Dougster

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks again yall. A little trim work does make a big difference.
Can't think of anything else that an OD18 could have to improve her.
I can, but not sure I should post a picture of them :lol:
Says good times here but better on down the road Dougster
One can only hope. The stock market has kicked my ass this month :cry: But a trivial thing in the overall scheme 8)

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:37 pm
by Dougster
Am similarly kicked; tends to focus the mind 'eh? I can't feel sorry for myself very long without feeling plenty guilty. I mean, I got food, a payed for house, a boat project, and Shirley. Health's OK at the moment too.

Says a focused mind is somethin' Dougster

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:25 am
by cape man
But a trivial thing in the overall scheme
You got that one dead on!

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:00 am
by Murry
Not only can you construct a beautiful boat but the teak accents that you've added are just as perfect. It's looks fantastic Larry.

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:00 pm
by Fonda@kauai
Absolutely beautiful CL 8) More importantly, beneath the nice teak trim and paint job is a really capable piece of equipment. Did you decide to go with radar? I'm thinking about it but haven't really looked into the cost. Sure would be nice for finding the birds though, yeah?

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:49 am
by Cracker Larry
I appreciate the comments, men :D

We're still plugging away, should have the teak finished up today. I'm now an expert at plugging screw holes, having done about 200 :help:
Did you decide to go with radar? I'm thinking about it but haven't really looked into the cost. Sure would be nice for finding the birds though, yeah?
Oh yeah, we're going to have radar. Very nice for finding birds and buoys and boats in the fog. It also helps large commercial boats see you in the dark or fog. They can recieve your radar signals and pinpoint you, even if you are not a large enough target for their radar to paint.

The most cost effective solution is to get a combo unit that accepts a radar head as an input. Raytheon and Lowrance both make models that will do this. Then you can have GPS/ chartplotter/ radar and fishfinder on one screen and overlay the radar on your chart plotter. Cool stuff 8) The radar heads are purchased separately in a variety of ranges and priced from about $900 - $2,000 (and up).

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:57 pm
by ks8
And you,ve got that nice t-top to mount it to. On an 18 footer... that will be one tricked out ride (pardon my french). :)

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:24 pm
by chicagoross
I sure can't think of anything else to make your boat better equipped, constructed, or finished... :doh: ....Nope, don't know how you're going to stretch this build all the way to a new-year's launch. I think it's about ready to go down to the ramp and show off! :D

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:47 pm
by Murry
Larry, did you oversize all the holes for that trim and fill with glue or did you go with 5200?

I've been trying to determine by watching others if it's neccessary to oversize and fill every hole.

Thanks Larry,
Daniel

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, did you oversize all the holes for that trim and fill with glue or did you go with 5200?


Daniel, no, I didn't plan that far ahead. It would have required me laying out all this trim before priming and painting. It would have been almost impossible to re-match all the screw holes, even if I planned ahead. I used 5200 on the trim. First I drilled the holes, then ran the screws in and out once to thread them, squirted some 5200 in the holes and coated the screw threads with it too. Good enough for this. I know the sealant won't leak 250 screws and plugs :help:

Sam and I got the trim finished up, we just need to oil the wood.

Image

Image

Weird how the camera lense makes the boat look twisted in those shots :doh:

Image


Image

So that's that. Nothing left to do inside except get the T-top installed. We can't do that in the shed, because there's not enough height to get it out once it's on a trailer, and we need the hoists to lift it on the trailer.

Don't want to take her outside yet, until I finish painting. I guess I've stalled all I possibly can. Time to paint 8)

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:25 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Lookin' awesome Larry. The trim is working great to warm up the overall look.

Weird how the camera lense makes the boat look twisted in those shots
I know exactly what you mean, the same thing happened to me. I don't know how many times I would look at a photo and run outside to see if I'd screwed up somewhere and built a twisted boat. :lol: It's just a characteristic of the smallish lenses that the "point and shoot" cameras use, not enough lens elements to correct the spherical distortion.

Have you got your engine yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:29 pm
by Murry
Thanks Larry

Your response was refreshing. Thinking and planning to oversize and fill every future hole was beginning to get overwhelming even for a small boat like the gf16.

I'll stick to the philosophy of oversizing and filling all holes below the waterline. 5200 everywhere else.

The trim looks very nice.

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you LL, glad to see you drop in :D No engine yet, no trailer yet. I'm a little over budget and need to do some consolidations :lol: I hope to get a trailer in the next week. One step at a time. :lol:

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:30 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Rent out more canoes!

This is the season (at least in these parts) to score great deals on outboard engines.

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:32 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Larry

She looks beautiful. I have been watching but quietly. Your work is inspiring as always.

Hope to see you in the spring.

Huck

BTW, there is a local dealer (Gulf Shores) that is blowing out Suzuki's, $4900 for a 60 with a 6 year warranty!

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:55 pm
by rjezuit
For $4900 I can get 2-3 complete boats, motors and trailers in these parts this time of year. Rick

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:21 pm
by JIM M
Larry, Wow the boat looks great, the teak really adds to an already beautiful boat.

Jim

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:08 am
by TomW
Dang Larry she is gorgeous with all that trim. I was thinking I'd get mine painted before you did but the water situation or the lack there of has had me spending 3 days on it instead of the boat. Oh, well this week for sure.

Tom

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:19 am
by saltponder
Larry,
You sure your last name isn't Rybovich? She looks fab-u-lous.
Gil

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:46 am
by tech_support
Daniel Huckleberry wrote: BTW, there is a local dealer (Gulf Shores) that is blowing out Suzuki's, $4900 for a 60 with a 6 year warranty!
thats pretty good considering I have quote on 40 hp tillers for $4,000

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:04 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone, Tom, Huck, Gil, Rick, LL, Jim, I appreciate the comments. Sam says she'll do, so I guess she will :lol:

Huck, good to hear from you. Hope the new job works out. If your travels bring you close to Savannah, stop in and see me. Sounds like a good deal on the Suzukis, but I'm leaning more towards a Yamaha. I can get a 90 hp here for $5,800.

Our boating season is year around so the prices really don't drop much in the fall. Lots of deals on used ones, but I'd rather buy new.

Gil, how's the Panga coming along? Holler if you need some help.

Tom, what's wrong with your water?

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:43 am
by ks8
Looking great! .... but...

No cup holders in the stern? :P

Did you say roll and tip Sterling for the topsides? :D

I'm cleaning the machine oil out of the HFreight disposable spray gun now. You'll probably still be done before me. :lol:

Temps are dropping fast at night!

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:09 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks KS :D

I've got a spare cupholder, might put it in the stern :doh: I've got a lot of extra parts actually, need to sell all my leftovers.

Yep, roll and tip. I've concluded that I'm no good at spray painting, so I'll stick with what works best for me. No need in me ruining good paint :lol:

We've been in the high 30s the last 3 nights, warming to mid 70s in the daytime. Perfect boat building weather.

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:11 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Larry

I don't blame you on the Yamaha. I love a 2-stroke. There is a 90hp 2007 on e-bay with zero hours (they called it 5) for $4500. It's in Sebring Florida. That's the engine I want for my boat, though I keep hesitating as the idea of selling the boat and building another keeps tickling me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... =p3907.m32

Huck

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:53 pm
by Lower
Wow...I'm gone a week and come back to this!! That teak trim work is PERFECT! What a nice touch. I don't care what you say...your getting close! Trip was successful...Posting moose pic now on my thread.

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:31 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Lower :D It is getting close.

I am all prepped and and was ready to paint today, but the wind is blowing about 25 mph. :cry: What a let down after I finally got the courage up. As much as I hate it, I'm going to have to wait some more. :(

Maybe we'll get back on the aluminum work instead :idea:

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:31 pm
by Matt Gent
I went with a new Yamaha 90 2s for my 17' skiff also. Good motor for that size boat, light, decent mileage. Didn't make sense to buy used at those prices (I think $5300 for mine, plus tach, install, and tax). If you wait till the early part of the year you may get Yamaha to throw in an extended warranty, I just missed it buying mine.

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:11 pm
by bernd1
These prices are a dream for an European..... :cry:


Bernd

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:38 pm
by OysterBreath
bernd1 wrote:These prices are a dream for an European..... :cry:
Bernd
With the current exchange rate I'm sure a European income is a dream for most Americans. I even considered at one time building fly rods exclusivly for the European market. I figure if Walmart can use cheap Chinese labor to sell good to Americans; then I can use my cheap American labor to sell good to you Europeans! lol

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Let's not get into politics here, please :wink: Times are tough all over.

OD18

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:09 pm
by bhudso
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW YOU GLUED UP YOUR STRINGER DID YOU BUT BLOCK THEM AND WHAT SIZE PLY DID YOU USE

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
2 layers of 3/4" ply. You just stagger the joints so they are offset, no butt block necessary.

od18

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:04 am
by bhudso
THANKS FOR ALL THE HEIP LARRY

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:18 am
by Cracker Larry
My pleasure sir :D

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:41 pm
by TomW
Well do you still have the GV16 or did the guy buy it. You have to get that motor and radar to get AG launched sooner than later. :D

It's supposed to snow up here Tues night Wed morning, I'm going to have to take a break and get the garage insulated to finish the dang Mirror. Wasn't counting on that grrrrrr. :x It normally stays warm a month longer than this. I assume it has been to cool for you to paint down there also.

Best wishes to all

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:59 am
by cape man
No snow here, but we finally are getting some fall weather - i.e. good boat building weather! Was in Atlanta Friday for a meeting and it was just plain ugly cold and wet. Slow curing epoxy is a nice change. Would rather wait a while instead of losing it in the pot.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:26 am
by Cracker Larry
Tom, still have the GF 16, not sold yet. Was supposed to take out a few people for demo rides last week but the weather was terrible and we haven't made it yet :doh:

I don't need radar to launch, but a motor sure would be nice :lol:

We had a beautiful day yesterday, calm, clear, light wind, high mid 70's. So Sam and I turned lose those Sterling elves. You should have seen them go at it 8)

We're going to try for another coat this morning, but maybe not. It's supposed to get real windy this afternoon, then cool to freezing tonight. it will be our first freeze, early this year. The paint is slow to dry, so I'm hesitant.

I'll follow up later with some pictures.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:54 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, Sam and I decided we'd go for the second coat this morning. The paint and catalyst are mixed and waiting to kick.

Yesterdays coat looks amazing! It's got a few imperfections, but not many. I had a couple of small sags, due to the paint being a little too thin, some experimentation cured that. There are a few areas where the primer had a little orange peel that show through somewhat, and you can sure see every ripple in the fairing, which there are a few, but it's too late to correct that. Also had a few bugs, imagine that, but not many, maybe 8. I sanded those out this morning.

The Sterling is incredible paint! There is not a brush mark in it and even the little sags stretched out after the paint dried. It's hard as a rock and looks like a mirror. In most places it's a 6" finish, worst case a 2 foot finish, so I'm mostly happy with it. I would have never thought one coat would cover so well, and I think 2 will be perfect.

Now that I've learned the application tricks, I have high hopes for coat 2 8) If only the weather will hold a few hours :doh:

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:58 am
by dborecky
Larry,

I told you that stuff is great. Just throw in on and it flows out.... Maybe not that easy but great stuff.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:58 am
by Lucky_Louis
Congrats Larry, sounds like the job met your expectations. I know this was a real nail biter for you. Glad it turned out well. Pictures!

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
Second coat is on, just in time for the wind to start blowing :cry: I envision buffing out some dust.

The paint is remarkable, I'm 1000% satisfied with it, and about 75% satisfied with the fairing job. The paint shows every imperfection, such as the tape splice joints, and the poor job I did fairing the seam between the side panels. Next boat I build with overlapping side panels, I'm putting a rail down that seam :idea: Jacques was right again.

A few other things about the paint.....It is strong, nasty stuff :!: Just mixing it made my head spin. Got a real good buzz before I put on the respirator. Haven't had that good a buzz since I was down at Craigs :lol: Don'tt use this stuff without good breathing protection.

The thinning amount is critical and I found it needed a little less than the directions said. Better a little too thick than too thin. Just thick enough where you can feel the brush start to drag is where is wants to be.

Work about 2 sq. ft. at a time, roll with West 7" foam roller. Then tip in 2 directions, first horizontal from the dry edge to the wet, then vertical from bottom to top. Keep the brush fairly dry and stretch the paint out with it, but not too much.

It's taking less than 1 quart per coat, so I can easily get 4 coats from the gallon. Should I do that I wonder :doh: Probably better on the boat than in the can. It doesn't need it for coverage, one coat covered it, but I'm thinking protection and longetivity.

We're going to get a spell of bad weather, so it may be a week before it's suitable to paint again. That will give it time to harden up good, then I'm thinking I'll sand out the dust and crud I'm getting now, wait on the perfect day and do it again.

I'll take some pictures in a while. The Matterhorn white is a little grayer than I thought it would be, a good match for the other colors.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:21 pm
by Murry
Thanks for the update Larry.
I can't wait to see it.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:56 pm
by tech_support
Larry,

I like to get the color coverage with the first couple coats, then sand with 320 grit to get out runs/brush strokes and thin the last coat a little more to get it lay out perfect. So you will have a chance to get the dust off if you go with one more coat - If you have the paint left, I highly recommend it.

This is perfect painting weather :) If you feel the brush start to pull, dip the tip of the brush into some thinner. Its a lot of fun and very rewarding to watch as the paint lays out to that perfect "porcelain" gloss.

Pictures please :)

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:01 pm
by ks8
Yes, pictures please... while I go put the roll molds back on... 8)

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:08 pm
by TomW
It's great that the paint went on so well for you. Glad you are happy with the paint. I agree with Shine, you'll be happier. :D

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, OK! Pictures coming. Here are a couple. It's almost impossible to take a picture of, the paint is so glossy the camera won't focus on it. I've tricked it by focusing on something else a similar distance away, then turn back to the boat while holding the shutter :wink:
I'll get some better ones later...

Image

The spots are reflections off the concrete...

Image
I like to get the color coverage with the first couple coats, then sand with 320 grit to get out runs/brush strokes and thin the last coat a little more to get it lay out perfect. So you will have a chance to get the dust off if you go with one more coat - If you have the paint left, I highly recommend it.


Perfect, I'll do it exactly like that. Thanks. Would you hand sand or machine sand it?

And what in heck do you clean the brushes with :?: Mineral spirits won't touch it, in fact the paint sets up hard completely submerged in MS. Can't find anything that will take it off my hands either. :doh:
Its a lot of fun and very rewarding to watch as the paint lays out to that perfect "porcelain" gloss.


Just like magic! This is some truly great paint :D

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Joel, one more question. Will I need to cut the tape line or will it pull off clean?

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:22 pm
by donk
That looks store bought!!!

I finally got around to painting my little boat this weekend, used S3 and it is no where near as nice as yours. I "rolled and tipped", my first adventure with the technique. Mine is about a 10 footer, without my glasses.

You definately have something to be proud of.

don

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:25 pm
by TomW
Larry great looking boat. :D

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:45 pm
by gk108
That's purty :!:
I had a hard time getting a good photo representation of my transom finish. Like taking a picture of a mirror. :D

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall, everyone. It's a pleasure working with quality products. I only have one complaint about it, it dries too slow, allowing plenty of time for bugs and trash to stick to it.
That looks store bought!!!


Thanks Don. It actually looks better than store bought gelcoat. Sweet 8)

One coat of this looks better than 4 coats of S3. I guess there is truth in getting what you pay for :lol: The S3 on the inside took 4-6 coats for a good finish, and it still has brush marks. You can't find a brush mark on the Sterling.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:05 pm
by Bayport_Bob
Cracker Larry wrote:O


Perfect, I'll do it exactly like that. Thanks. Would you hand sand or machine sand it?

And what in heck do you clean the brushes with :?: Mineral spirits won't touch it, in fact the paint sets up hard completely submerged in MS. Can't find anything that will take it off my hands either. :doh:
Hands sanding will help prevent any unintentional burn through.

MEK, MEK, MEK, but once the paint's cured, forget about it.

Glad to see another builder confirm my experiences with S3 & Sterling LPU's.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks BB! Thanks for your prior tips on the Sterling also :D I really appreciate it.

MEK? OK, that's about the only solvent I don't have. That stuff isn't safe for hand cleaning is it?

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:22 pm
by JimW
Larry, Thanks for the detailed report. The "Fish Feeder" can't make it too much longer before a repaint job is required to make her look good. You are making me lean to sterling. KEEP THE DOGS AWAY! :)

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:31 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Have you tried lacquer thinner? Pretty volatile too but it worked well with cleaning up the 2 part Perfection. I stuck with my latex gloves for painting so I never had to clean my hands 8) Like B.Bob says, once it's cured, nothing will touch it 'cept maybe straight methyl alcohol.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:53 pm
by tech_support
I clean the brushes with the brushing reducer. Please do not get MEK in your skin :help:

I hand sand around the edges, and DA (very lightly) the large flat areas. If in doubt, hand sand it all. its does not take much, you just sand it until the gloss is removed - then stop.

Use the 2 rag wipe down technique right before the last coat.

As for taking bragging shots, 8) try to find something to reflect an image...

Image

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:18 pm
by topwater
Man what a finish 8O I knew you you would step back do
some pondering and get it right. you sold me on the sterling.
you and sam should be proud.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:13 pm
by tech_support
forgot the tape question. I wait until the end to remove it, using a razor blade with slight pressure if need be. The paint is extremely thin so the tape will come up pretty easy

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:19 am
by Murry
Go Larry. Go Larry.

She's beautiful. I'd say you have a deep shine when you can see the dirt on the ground beside the boat. 8) What a reflection.

After I invest all the work money and time in my boat. It'll get Sterling.
Well, if the finish is good enough it will.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:47 am
by dborecky
Larry,

Nice!!! I told you the fumes would come close to knocking you out!!!

I used the brushing reducer as well to clean the brush and soak it in between rollings.

I started to use the razor to remove the tape but found that the tap started to pull off clean without the razor and I just slowly pulled the tape without any defects to the paint. I guess if the bond was not as good it could pull away but it did not on my boat. The tape was at the edge of the rub rail so if it had pulled some paint it would have been under the rub rail. Again, it did not pull any paint up on my boat.

Derrick

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:10 am
by Aripeka Angler
That's a mighty fine looking paint job Larry. You are making me want to build something so I can try out the Sterling paint...

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:18 am
by JimW
Larry, do you need a forced air respiratory for sterling or just a good charcoal cartridge filter job? I could paint with my scuba gear hooked up to a long "hookah" hose?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:39 am
by tech_support
JimW wrote:Larry, do you need a forced air respiratory for sterling or just a good charcoal cartridge filter job? I could paint with my scuba gear hooked up to a long "hookah" hose?
Just a regular respirator to filter out the VOC's, we use the 3M one

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:29 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the tips and comments, everyone :D
After I invest all the work money and time in my boat. It'll get Sterling.
Yep, me too from now on 8)
You are making me want to build something so I can try out the Sterling paint...
Thanks Richard. How is the little skiff project? Is that next?
Nice!!! I told you the fumes would come close to knocking you out!!!
You were right about that Derrick :help: It was a pleasant buzz, anyway :lol: Thanks for the tape tips.

I didn't try the brushing reducer for cleaning, because the Sterling instructions I downloaded said that it wouldn't work :doh: They want you to buy their brush cleaning material too, which costs more than a couple of good brushes. They also say to only use a brush once or twice for topcoat. I've destroyed 2 $20 brushes with 2 coats so far.
Just a regular respirator to filter out the VOC's, we use the 3M one
I used the same thing Jim, 3M with charcoal cartridges. If I was going to spray this paint, I think I'd use forced air. It is seriously wicked stuff.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:01 am
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:
Thanks Richard. How is the little skiff project? Is that next?
I am going to start on it soon Larry. The grouper are starting to distract me a little bit. As soon as the season closes I am going to jump on the little skiff project.

BTW, I bought my rubrail at www.discountmarinesupplies.com It looks like the price has went up a bit, but they are still cheaper than going to a West retail store.

Have you located or picked up your motor yet :?:

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
No motor yet Richard. I've lost the equavelent of about 50 of them in the last 3 months :? We'll get one soon though.

Thanks for the rubrail link, that's also on my shopping list :D

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:57 pm
by cape man
Haven't had that good a buzz since I was down at Craigs
You're going to give me a reputation :wink: You saying my beer gives a better buzz than paint fumes :D

Boat looks awesome. Still don't have our return schedule for next week, but would love to swing by and take a peek.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:30 pm
by chicagoross
No motor yet Richard. I've lost the equavelent of about 50 of them in the last 3 months
Amen. If I had known I might have traded my retirement account for epoxy, motors, and trailers enough to keep the next few years of builds going... :(

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:16 am
by Cracker Larry
Still don't have our return schedule for next week, but would love to swing by and take a peek.
Craig, I'll be home during the week next week. Got some family obligations for next weekend. You're sure welcome to come by, I've got a coat of paint that needs sanding :wink: Give me a call, you've got my cell.
You saying my beer gives a better buzz than paint fumes


No, I think it was the moonshine and rum :lol:
Amen. If I had known I might have traded my retirement account for epoxy, motors, and trailers enough to keep the next few years of builds going...
:lol: Isn't that the truth! Oh well, easy come easy go. Looks like I made a couple of them back yesterday :lol:

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:03 pm
by Dougster
Congratulations on the Sterling Larry, you must be pleased. Between you and B.Bob I can't see going any other way, at least for the topsides. I still may go the simple, flatter Kirby's enamal on the hull. Dunno yet. Ditto on the "if I hadda known" with the retirement account comments. Easy go, sure, but I'm not so sure about that easy come thing :roll: Yesterday was a little cheery though. I guess I'm gonna sit tight, keep workin', and get Nina's bottom finished. I think she's had about enough foreplay. Thanks again for the great pics and help with all these procedures.

Tellin' Nina to be patient Dougster

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
Allie G is having to learn some patience too, Dougster 8)

No, it didn't come easy, but better to laugh than cry. Nothing but a thing. A hundred years from now it won't be important :lol: Except I didn't want to keep working :?

I appreciate your comments. I'm extremely pleased with the paint, it is far better than my prep, or my application, which is more than I could expect. A little more practice with it and Sam will have it figured out to perfection :D

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:06 pm
by slump67
I haven't checked the forum lately. Larry, your boat is a showpiece!

I'm almost glad that my boat doesn't look that good, I'd be afraid to use it!

congrats,

Al

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Al :D She's as tough as she is pretty, we ain't scared to use it :lol:

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:47 pm
by TomW
Larry saw in another post you sold your GV16, I'm sad :( but glad for you she was a good boat and like you said will give someone else some happiness. :D I'm sure you will miss her at times where she could go and the new boat can't, but that won't be often and the new boat is so much more. :D

Congrats

Tom

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:50 pm
by mecreature
TomW wrote:Larry saw in another post you sold your GV16, I'm sad :( but glad for you she was a good boat and like you said will give someone else some happiness. :D I'm sure you will miss her at times where she could go and the new boat can't, but that won't be often and the new boat is so much more. :D

Congrats

Tom

:( How could you do it Larry? How did Sam take you selling it.

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
you sold your GV16,
GF, not GV. Yep, she had to go, I had planned all along to sell it when we reached this stage of the build. We might start another one though. I took her to town and pimped her on a street corner with a sign, and it didn't take long. Phones still ringing, could probably sell 2 more just like it 8)

Too dang cold for boating right now anyway. Cold on the river this morning in the GF :help: Looking forward to hiding behind a console.

Sam is taking me trailer shopping tomorrow 8)

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:56 pm
by TomW
I never could get the Garvey GV's and the Jon boat's GF's right. :oops: Happy trailer hunting! 8) I'm sure Sam will let you know when you get the right one. :D

Tom

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
Been hard at it again. Yesterday we gave the paint a vigorous sanding, first with 220 to remove the sags (learning curve :oops: ), then again with 320 to remove the scratches from the 220 :| Then washed her with water and clean rags.

Today was beautiful, 78 degrees, sunny and calm, so I mixed the paint early and while it was catalyzing, or whatever it has to do, we gave the hull another 2 rag wipe down with mineral spirits, then dry rags.

I think I've finally figured out the paint, thanks to all the tips. My first coats were not thinned enough and I was putting on too much. So this time we thinned a little more, added a little MEK to help it dry faster (it worked!) and tried to apply it thinner.

Much better :D I still got a couple of small sags, where the paint was too heavy, but I know how to fix that now 8) But if yall thought the last coat looked good, check this out :D

Image

Reflections :D

Image

Image

Image

Did I mention that I was very happy with this paint :?:

Image

:D :D :D

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:54 pm
by chicagoross
8O Wow! Can you still catch fish in a boat that shiny? Keep this up and we're not going to believe you when you say that painting is not high on you list of skills!

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:43 pm
by JIM M
That shine is incredible, now I'm jealous 8) 8) 8)

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:59 pm
by Fonda@kauai
Incredible 8O Sterling it is 8)

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Can you still catch fish in a boat that shiny
I don't know :doh: I've never fished from a boat this shiny :lol:
we're not going to believe you when you say that painting is not high on you list of skills!


I know a lot more about it now than I did 6 months ago, but I'm still not a painter. It's all in the paint, and following the directions :wink:

Thanks yall. Off to a halloween party :D

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:42 pm
by BassMunn
Larry awesome finish!!
Now I know what it's supposed to look like 8O

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:57 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, I love the paint :!: I wish I had used it on Red Alert. The shine looks great, I can't wait to see it in Crystal River. 8)

I got a log book this week from an old friend who was a charter captain in the CR area. He kicked ass on the grouper and snapper. The numbers are all old Loran which I am going to explore when the weather gets better. I will convert them to GPS and that should keep us amused in the spring.

BBB, how fitting is that for a celebration.... :D

Richard

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:11 pm
by gk108
Dang :!:
That's super shiny. 8)

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:11 pm
by Murry
Beautiful..

Larry, when and where is the Crystal River Meet?

Maybe I could take a closer look yours and the rest of the fleet.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:44 pm
by BoH
The last one is so shiny it took me a minute to recognize it as a boat. Great job, Larry, painting and photography.

Bo

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:04 am
by TomW
Incredible Larry, what a great job who says you can't paint. :D

Tom

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:06 am
by TomW
Murry the meeting will be in Crystal River, FL the last week end in April. See the STICKY in the ANYTHING ELSE section.

Tom

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:54 am
by deedee
GOOD NOGHT that thing really shines !!!! really nice work there. i hope my finish comes out close to that but i will be rolling and tipping it so who knows. MAN THAT LOOKS GOOD!

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:50 am
by RR
Beautiful :!: Fantastic paint job Larry :!: :D

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:44 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall :D It's those elves that come with the Sterling that actually do all the work :wink:
i hope my finish comes out close to that but i will be rolling and tipping it so who knows
This is rolled and tipped Deedee.

Murray, keep up with the Crystal River meet here..

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 266fd0944a

Hope to see you there :D

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:47 am
by Cracker Larry
I will convert them to GPS and that should keep us amused in the spring.


That sounds good Richard, as long as they're not 100 miles offshore :lol:

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:50 am
by deedee
sorry i forgot that you prolly said that in this short thread somewhere... :D DANG thats a really nice finish you got there larry . you got me really excited now that i realize its all in the elves and paint and not by my hand!

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:12 am
by ks8
that's z damgwroud finisj/

mist toucjtype, cant see kryboarf anymire.

noce!

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:10 am
by Dougster
Lord, Lord, she shine like sparklin' wine. Gimme some shades, gimme some air, that lady's just plain fine. I'll lift a glass to her this evening's happy hour. Having followed her thread, I know she's lots more than pretty.

Says there's fish in her future Dougster

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:50 pm
by topwater
CL with a shine like that bateau is going to have to pay you
a commission on all the sterling you're going to sell :!:

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:06 am
by jgroves
Looks great Larry! Top notch job. :D

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:12 am
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall very much :D Sam says we're going to give her one more coat :roll:

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:20 am
by flatpicker
8O 8O Incredible!!

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:17 am
by Biker B.O.B.
Cracker Larry wrote: Sam says we're going to give her one more coat :roll:
Boy is Sam picky. :P He'd better really appreciate all the work those elves put into that paint job.

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:59 am
by Lower
WOW. Looks VERY VERY impressive. Nicely done. Good luck with that last coat.

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:36 am
by mecreature
Sweet... that one more coat would be the one I would mess up real good.

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks. It was the first coat that I messed up, and the second coat that the cold, wind and I messed up. The third coat almost perfect and the 4th will be a charm. I've got a much higher confidence level now and a good feel for the tipping so it will be OK.

And if not, what the heck, I'll sand it off and do it again :lol: . I'm really good at sanding :wink:

I've got enough paint left for at least 3 more coats. The coverage is better than I would have guessed, this paint goes farther than the System 3.

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:34 pm
by JimW
Cracker Larry wrote:this paint goes farther than the System 3.
Very good to hear that Larry. I put a lot of coats of S3 on my rowing shell.

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
Jim another difference to keep in mind, the S3 gallon is a gallon, plus whatever thinning you do. The Sterling gallon must be mixed with 1/2 gallon of part 2, then it is reduced another 25%, so you net 2 gallons of liquid with a gallon can of paint.

Mixing a quart sized batch requires 16 oz. paint, 8 ounces of catalyst and 8 ounces of reducer, give or take a couple.

It is taking less than a mixed quart per coat, so I could easily get 8 coats from the gallon. I'm going to save some though :lol:

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:18 pm
by ks8
Hopefully we can see a picture of Sam looking at himself in the hull, after coat number four is dry. :D

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:39 am
by JimW
Thanks Larry, she sure looks great.

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hopefully we can see a picture of Sam looking at himself in the hull, after coat number four is dry.
Image

:D

Again not perfect, I am not a painter. A few little sags, a couple I made worse by trying to brush out too late, but all in all real good :D 95%, but damn that last 5% is elusive :?

Pondering if to try again for the perfect coat, or just accept that the perfect coat isn't in me, and move on. This isn't too shabby. I keep telling myself that :lol:

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:08 pm
by TomW
Will the 5% be seen by anyone but you at less than 5'. If not I'd say good'nuff. Otherwise coat number 5, you'll never be happy with it. :wink: :lol:

She looks outstanding as she is, to me.

Tom

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:43 pm
by chicagoross
Sam says we're going to give her one more coat
What's Sam say now? :doh: :D

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
Will the 5% be seen by anyone but you at less than 5'.
No, probably not by most people. But I know that you and Richard and Craig and Joel are going to be looking at it real close at Crystal River :lol: And I've got to please myself too :wink:
Otherwise coat number 5, you'll never be happy with it.
Yep, I suspect you're right. Truth be told, I did a better job on coats 1 and 3 than I did on 4, so I know I can do better than this one. If I hadn't ran out of brushing reducer, it probably would have happened today.

Wow, the weather is beautiful :D Just like it's supposed to be.
What's Sam say now?


Sam says I'm not a very good painter, but at least the transom is perfect, I won't need to screw that up again :lol:

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:21 pm
by Dougster
I say she's a good lookin' gal without anymore makeup. Congratulations Larry.

Enjoying the view Dougster

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:50 pm
by cape man
But I know that you and Richard and Craig and Joel are going to be looking at it real close at Crystal River
Man you have been sniffing that paint too long! If I can get my boat half as nice I'll be tickled to death. Don't blame me for your OCD at this point.

I say, get her out from under there and put that T top on, slap a motor on her, and go for a spin. I'm beginning to think you are striving for a 200 page thread before she hits the water :lol: :lol:

She's a gorgeous thing. You did well for not being a painter 8)

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:02 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:
Hopefully we can see a picture of Sam looking at himself in the hull, after coat number four is dry.
Image

Looks great :!:
Again not perfect
Close enough for a boat...
I am not a painter
Sam says you are being too modest...

Richard

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:41 am
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:Again not perfect, I am not a painter. A few little sags, a couple I made worse by trying to brush out too late, but all in all real good :D 95%, but damn that last 5% is elusive :?

Pondering if to try again for the perfect coat, or just accept that the perfect coat isn't in me, and move on. This isn't too shabby. I keep telling myself that :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I sanded out a little spot of a run with orange peel and recoated with clear... and it ran again... worse than water at 68F and low humidity! :lol: So, having three or four flavors of orange peel all over this hull, but no brush marks on the outside, except the bootstripe, I will continue to admire what it might have been as I look at yours, and I will be a bit more relaxed while docking. With your sea time you will already be more relaxed than me near a dock. So I guess I need the edge of a less than perfect paint job. :) Maybe I'll actually thank S3 for that stupid Hi Q narrow weather bandwidth of their LPU. :lol:

Nice picture of Sam, but can't you get a shot of him looking at himself? :P

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:52 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks guys, I'll ponder on it a few days. I wonder if I could just fix a couple of 1 sq.ft. spots, without having to repaint the whole thing :doh: We pulled the masking tape, if that tells you anything.
With your sea time you will already be more relaxed than me near a dock.


:lol: Fenders KS, hang fenders when near docks :wink:

Sam is a publicity hound. If there is a camera, that's the only place he'll look. Maybe if I smear some peanut butter on the hull :idea:

Oh, one more very important thing I need to tell yall :!: Do not, do not mix Sterling paint in a disposable plastic cup :help: It takes about 3 minutes before the cup melts and 12 ounces of paint coats you, your work bench, the floor and everything else within splatter range 8O 8O

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:55 am
by Cracker Larry
Man you have been sniffing that paint too long! If I can get my boat half as nice I'll be tickled to death. Don't blame me for your OCD at this point.
Way too long :lol: Whew! Welcome back Craig.

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:12 am
by Joe H
Hey Larry,
Man that is incredible looking,

Image

Boat's not bad either! :wink:

Joe

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:50 am
by TomW
Larry, I doubt if you will be able to just do a couple of 1 sq. ft areas. I know I can't on my real hi-gloss finishes, never was able to hold the tonque in the right position so always got brush marks on the previous coat. :( Maybe Joel has a trick or two up his sleeve. That would be 8)

Tom

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:13 pm
by chicagoross
I wonder if I could just fix a couple of 1 sq.ft. spots, without having to repaint the whole thing
You can with my RustOLeum finish...I don't think it will work with that mirror in the picture above! :D

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:03 pm
by topwater
she looks awsome..... i think its time to get her fully dressed
and take her dancing :!:

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:53 pm
by tobolamr
Cracker Larry wrote:Do not, do not mix Sterling paint in a disposable plastic cup
What do you suggest would be best to mix Sterling paints in? Pyrex containers?

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Cracker Larry wrote:
Do not, do not mix Sterling paint in a disposable plastic cup


What do you suggest would be best to mix Sterling paints in? Pyrex containers?
No, it isn't that bad :lol: I'm referring to the cheap plastic disposable drinking cups, like you'd see at a keg party, come in packs of 50. That's what I mix epoxy and most things in. A disaster with this paint :oops: OK with System 3 paint, not Sterling.

I've been using the plastic cups sold here at bbc, they are quart sized with graduations on them and they work great, and are easy to measure the ratios in. I've also used some plastic containers that had pool chemicals in them and they worked good too. Ran short and substituted. Party cups don't work, at all. Big mess and $30 of paint where I didn't want paint :cry: And the last of my brushing thinner :cry: Nothing but a thing, now we all know better :lol:

Edited: These are the best, the ones sold here..

Image

After the leftover Sterling dries in them, you can pull the paint out in one cup shaped piece, and the cup is as good as new for re-use. you could almost use the paint film as another cup 8)

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:59 pm
by Dougster
Good tip Larry, 'cuz I use those same cups for 'poxy and might of been tempted. Penny wise, well...

Can't wait to see her, with all her hardware, 'lectronics, T Top, and big motor Dougster

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:39 pm
by tobolamr
Awesome - Thank you much!

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
We've been plugging away on details while pondering paint. Sam declared the transom good nuff, dang near perfect, so we installed the engine mounting bracket, which is also dang near perfect.

It started a little (lot) rough since it took some grinding to clean up my welding :oops: But I learned something 'bout aluminum welding. I used 40 and 60 grit to even up my grinding, then we cleaned it good and gave it 2 coats of S3 primer. This told us we neeed more smoothing, so we gave it a coat of Quick Fair to help fill some gouges, then sanded and primed again. Another round of QF, sanding and priming made her right.
Then 4 coats of S3 topcoat, same color as the gunwales.

Image

Notice above that we also installed the brass tubes for the motorwell drains. These are set in epoxy.

It came out pretty good, and fits like a wetsuit glove :D I wish I had some Sterling of this color, but it will get beat up anyway I'm sure.

Image

Then we installed the drain and overflow tubes for the baitwell, also set in epoxy...

Image

and the bilge pump discharge fitting...

Image

And the anchor locker drain tube, and the starboard bow light and the bow lifting ring...

Image

While doing all this, we pondered the paint and decided to try to make it better with a spot do-over. I knew I would :doh: I've got it all masked off for sanding. It's larger than it needs to be, but I thought I could hide the overlap lines better if I put one on the style line and one on the bow. We'll see how that works out. If not, I'm going to sand the whole dam thing and paint her again.

Image

Speaking of that, we have more major news. Another name change :help: Was talking with my Mom yesterday about some banking troubles she was having, she said "your Daddy would have said there's no excuse for this" She's right, that's what he always said about everything. And with my Mom's approval, the Allie G is now the "No Excuse". She'll still be named after my Dad, just in a different way 8)

Now we're waiting on some more brushing thinner and will see where this path leads :D

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:21 pm
by chicagoross
"No Excuse"
Perfect name, Larry - you sure as hell don't need to make "No Excuse" for anything on this boat!

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:27 pm
by TomW
Great new name Larry, sort of puts it all together! The work you've done and your Dad.

She looks nice!

Tom

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:31 pm
by BassMunn
I'm in Awe at the quality and workmanship of your build 8O
Amazing stuff - "No Excuse" until it's done right hey :wink:

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:35 pm
by Biker B.O.B.
chicagoross wrote:
"No Excuse"
Perfect name, Larry - you sure as hell don't need to make "No Excuse" for anything on this boat!
I'm thinking "No Excuse" not to put in on the water.

In other words...

"The paint is not good enough" is No Excuse not to splash it. You've worked hard, now go play.

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:18 am
by Cracker Larry
Got 5 usable boats in the yard Shawn, no need to rush this one :wink:

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:10 pm
by cape man
Looking good Cracker. Love the motor mount and the brass tubes. The teak is also sweet.

Have had to give my build a rest to take care of family issues. Don't think I'm making the X-mas launch deadline :cry: , but like you've proven, rushing this thing aint the way to go.

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:25 pm
by TomW
Craig, nothing takes precedence over family. The Mirror has went on the back burner a couple of times when I went to Ohio for my Mom & Dad. They have gone through some surgeries this past summer.

das Boot will get done whe she gets done, H*** I found some 9ox fiberglass that hadn't adhered to the brand new Meranti Sunday, about threw every damn tool I had out of the garage. I will never again use 9 oz fiberglass. I was trying to be cheap and 9 oz was cheaper than 12 oz biax OH well enough of my soap box.

Hang in there guy glad you got the doe for meat, good eating. I can sit off my front porch and watch them walk by sometimes.

Anything we can do let us know we'll be glad to help.

Tom

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Craig, I hope all is OK with your family. You've got friends here, let me know if I can do anything to help.

I thought that Christmas launch might be a little optimistic :lol: But you need to be finished by the end of April :wink:

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:25 pm
by cottontop
Larry, I haven't been on the site much lately. We've had a number of health problems since the "builders meet". Still going through some for about the next 6 months. Hope Shella and I will be set to go after that time. I guess some of it is just due to getting older. You surely have come a long way. You probably don't remember, but I called you "The Man" an a post last year. You said there was no way. Well I'm sure everyone on this site will agree with me after looking at your boat. Many she sure is purty. You've done an excellent job. I'm a little jealous. Let me back up a might: I'm a lot jealous. I can't wait to see your build at the next meet. Take my word for it you will always find something wrong with your paint. We aren't pros(your darn close). Start mounting the hardware and get her out for a full photo shoot. Take care. Mine is /was running good the last time I took her out. Seems my motor trouble at the meet was due to a faulty computer module. I don't think you can go wrong with a 90HP. I a game officer check me out a while back and said he loved the boat, but would mount a 90 on her if she were his. :D

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for those kind words, John :oops: I remember, and your boat was my inspiration to make her all that she could be. I should say your boat showed me how good she could be if I worked hard enough, so thanks for that 8)

I long ago came to the conclusion that the paint will never be perfect, not with me doing it outside, but with perserverance it will be pretty good. Maybe as good as yours and others. It's a tough crowd :lol:

Hope you and Shella's health problems get resolved, sorry to hear about that :cry: Getting old is hell.

All the hardware is mounted, except the T-top and engine. Once the top goes on, she won't fit under the shed so I'm getting everything else finished up that needs weather protection for, like paint :help: We'll be splashing her soon :D

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:07 am
by mecreature
everything looks great.. I can see this thread lasting a lot longer then your build Larry. Some really good stuff here.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:18 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Jeff :D

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:26 am
by Biker B.O.B.
Cracker Larry wrote:Got 5 usable boats in the yard Shawn, no need to rush this one :wink:
Larry, I think that you caught my backhanded compliment; but know that the paint job looks great to me. It's certainly much better than I did on my brother's boat. I'm pretty sure that the only way I could get a good finish like that is to wet sand and polish the paint. 8O

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:33 am
by Cracker Larry
No Shawn, you just have to use good paint :wink: No amount of polishing will make S3 paint look like this. Even the runs and sags have a mirror finish :lol:

If I didn't have all this hardware and instrumentation finished, I'd sand down the entire inside and re paint it with Sterling. Next boat will be Sterling all the way. It makes a poor painter look a lot better than he really is.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:01 pm
by bernd1
Just perfect !

Image

Time to.....Image


Bye
Bernd

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Another step closer :D Sam did real good 8)

Image

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:28 pm
by TomW
Good Sam! :D

Tom

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:35 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Congrats CL, that's a fine looking rig. Sam done good. Why don't you give him a treat? That big-black-roller-thingy-that's-gonna-smudge-up-your-beautiful-white-paint-at-your-stem-everytime-you-cinch-up-the-winch would make a great chew toy for Sam. Treat yourself and get a nice clear or white one. At this stage, what's another ten bucks? :wink:

Got "No Excuse" loaded yet?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:38 pm
by cape man
Nice wheels! Boat like her deserves a sweet cradle. Make sure to take some shots of loading her up. Have a plan for mine, but interested to see how you get her on.

Also, thanks for the concern and offers for help. Nothing happening that I can't handle, just need to take a break from the full time boat building virus and deal with some things. Nice to have met the friends here.

(Nice wind generator)

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:48 pm
by Knottybuoyz
I don't think this whole project would have turned out near as well without Sam. Well done Sam! :D

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:40 pm
by stickystuff
Sterling paint was originally designed for airplanes if I remember correctly. You never have to wax or buff it according to the specs. Awsome stuff.Well worth the extra bucks. It ain't cheap.

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
That big-black-roller-thingy...


No kidding LL :lol: I've never seen anything like that before 8O Good suggestion.
what's another ten bucks?
Half a paint brush, or 10 sanding disks, or 3 ounces of Sterling paint, or less than a 12 pack of Corona, .. :lol:

Not loaded yet, raining steady all day and I haven't messed with it.
Make sure to take some shots of loading her up.
It will be easy Craig. We've got 2- 2 ton chain hoists and some straps, but I'll take pictures.

Image

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sam has pushed me to substantial progress. Two major milestones hit, I'm not sure which one is more major, but both are good :D

First off we re-painted those spots yesterday that Sam wasn't happy with. I made 2 spot repairs about 4 sq. ft. each. They came out nearly perfect and blended in nicely. No runs, no drips, no errors. Yesterday was a weird weather day, a low on top of us, dead calm, drizzling rain, extremely humid, 80 degrees. I hesitated to paint, but it's supposed to get cold and windy for the next week so we went for it. I used some accelerator in the paint this time and it really seemed to help. Don't know if it was the weather or I just held my tongue right, but it came out sweet.

So unless I see something I can't live with when I pull her out in the sunshine, we're calling that painting finished. Except I might add a boot stripe :?

Milestone 2 is that we got her off the ground and settled in to her new permanent home. She was very happy :D
Make sure to take some shots of loading her up.
You got it Craig. It's fairly simple but there a few tricks that make it easier and safer. I've worked at a few marinas and boatyards and seen all sorts of ways not to do it.

I used 2 lifting straps, each attached to a chain hoist. Position the straps under the main frames. The rear strap goes under the motorwell bulkhead, the front strap under the casting deck bulkhead.

Since my hoists don't have a spreader bar, I make 1 for each strap out of a 2X4 cut a little wider than the hull. Otherwise the compression loads of the straps could damage something. We want to lift her gently, not squeeze her to death :wink: This method allows the 2X4 to carry the compression load without carrying any weight. It also keeps the strap off the hull sides where can screw up the paint.

Here is the stern strap rigged. Notice also that I cover the straps inside with masking tape to protect the paint. A gritty strap under tension will ruin paint :help: Most boat yards either use masking tape, wax paper or plastic wrap on the straps.

Image

The bow strap is rigged the same way but it gets a little extra attention. Slings around bow sections always want to slip forward due to the curve of the hull. If you look at them wrong, or you lift the bow higher than the stern, they will slip right off the dhull. 8O So you need to rig safety lines to keep them in place. Either tie to a cleat, or tie it to the rear strap, but make sure it is secured from slipping forward. Very important.

Image

Now I lift her up a little at a time, checking everything real good. Get her hanging safe and drag the building frame out from under her. Then I immediately set up some temporary blocking under the hull, just in case.

Next we push the trailer right up to the boat and raise the bow until it clears. I don't use a vehicle on the trailer, it's just a hindrance. Instead, I hook the winch cable from the trailer to the boat and winch the trailer under the boat, it's self positioning...

Image

Continue winching until you get her where she needs to be, set her down and remove the straps..

Image

Adjust winch and roller positioning....this roller has to go...

Image

Check it all for fit....

Image

Good to go. Right after we finished the weather broke and gave us this, (did I mention I did this in the rain?) The weather gods smiled, the boat smiled :D

Image

Sam, Lila, Dori and I all smiled. Red sky at night, sailors delight :D

Cocktail hour 8)

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:02 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cheers Larry :D You have earned happy hour. The boat looks better each time I see it....

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:14 pm
by RR
Beautiful boat :!: :D

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:41 pm
by ks8
You gonna put an eye patch over the port nav light? :P

She looks ready for an engine! :D

... and a nice clear bow roller...

Looks fantastic CL. :)

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:15 am
by TomW
Absolutely outstanding Larry! She looks great on her new home. Now just a few more little things to tidy up! :D

Tom

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:01 am
by cape man
Looking good man. Thanks for the pics. All good points. I may try the 50 mule team method and pay everyone who comes a home brew, but she's getting heavier everyday. Been looking at the stalls in the barn and trying to decide if they would bare the weieght if I run a 4X across the tops of the doors. Can borrow the hoists and straps. Might be easier, safer, and save some beer to do it like you did.

T-top, T-top! 8)

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:16 am
by Dougster
What a milestone. She looks great on her new wheels. Good news on being able to patch areas with the Sterling too, it must have been a fine happy hour last night. Oh and thanks for the tips on using straps. I wouldn't have thought of securing the forward ones or even taping them.

Rather not learn every darn thing the hard way Dougster

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:01 pm
by topwater
Congrates Larry.......youre real close now 8)

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:50 pm
by Murry
Way to go Larry :!:

She's beautiful.. I really does look good on your new trailer and I can't wait to see her in the water, Larry.

Thanks for all the pictures.

Larry quick question about your paint. Did you have to wet sand inbetween coats and after your last? It sure is clean.

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:06 pm
by Fonda@kauai
Man that must be a good feeling. She looks incredible. Going back through your thread I saw you have an arms locker in your console for your lead distributor. I might steal that I idea 8)

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:44 am
by flatpicker
Congrats Larry!! That's a fine rig to say the least. Can't wait to see her rigged out with the kicker! Almost time to take her out and kill some fish! 8)

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:05 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone :D We're down to details now. The rubrail is on order and should be in this week, and we should get the T-top mounted this week also. It's been a long haul, glad to have yall around for the journey :D
You gonna put an eye patch over the port nav light?


That's where she had some paint surgery, but she's all better now. Her new glass eye went in yesterday.
looking at the stalls in the barn and trying to decide if they would bare the weieght if I run a 4X across the tops of the doors.
What is that span across there, 14 feet or so? 4X4 would hold it, better would be a 2X10 on edge. It really isn't than heavy, figure 1,000 pounds worse case, that's 500 pounds each strap and only 250 pounds at the 4 support points. No problem 8)
Rather not learn every darn thing the hard way Dougster
That's the way I usually do it Dougster, the lessons stay with you a long time with that method :oops:
Did you have to wet sand inbetween coats and after your last? It sure is clean
No wet sanding at all. Sanded between coats with 320 dry. No sanding after the last coat, the Sterling elves take care of making it shine like that 8)
I saw you have an arms locker in your console for your lead distributor
Mandatory accessory :wink:
Almost time to take her out and kill some fish!


It sure is, thanks! Going to have to get warmer though. This week lows in the 20s, highs in the 40s and windy. Too cold for this cracker to go fishing. Glad I finished painting last week.

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:18 am
by cape man
figure 1,000 pounds worse case
If I hit 1,000 pounds I am screwed with my "winky" (I think that's what you called it :lol: ) 40hp Yamaha!

Are you going to weigh her before launching. Remember, I picked 850lbs.

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:38 am
by Lower
Very nicely done Larry. Tons of fun watching as it gets closer and closer.

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:46 am
by Lucky_Louis
Congrats Larry (and Sam). Another milestone achieved. It warmed my heart to see your concrete pad looks almost as 'bad' as mine did :lol:

That's a great fit for the trailer, was it custom made to fit her like the logos say?

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:56 am
by Cracker Larry
Are you going to weigh her before launching. Remember, I picked 850lbs.
Yes, and I'm picking 950 lbs. :lol: I stopped at a DOT station and weighed the trailer when I pulled it home, it's 552 pounds. We'll go weight it again now that it's loaded.
It warmed my heart to see your concrete pad looks almost as 'bad' as mine did
3 boats built on that pad LL, and you can see the outlines of all 3. I guess I should do some grinding before starting number 4 :doh:
That's a great fit for the trailer, was it custom made to fit her like the logos say?
No, it wasn't custom made for this boat, it was custom made to fit an 18' Carolina Skiff with a V bow and flat bottom, so it was almost perfect. It came with 12' 2X8 bunk boards which were great for the OD. Only needed minor adjustments to make it fit :D

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:06 pm
by KRE
Larry, Dont worry about little winky, that'll give people more time to look at her on the way by. WOW she's a beauty. All that jewelry and woodwork makes here look real Classy. If I were a betting man I'd guess 950 also.

I disagree about all the "Black Roller" comments. I have one, it left a nice black smudge on the bow. The way I look at it, the black smudge took the cherry off the new vehicle. If it wasnt for that black smuge I was going to have to throw a rock at the boat in the driveway.

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:01 am
by stickystuff
I made small stainless V- Wedge that fit the bow area where roller hits. Installed it with 3M double stick tape. Works great. also switch to one of the yellowish clear rollers and it will also avoid the black marks. Fantastic job. Thumbs up ol man.

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:39 am
by cape man
If it wasnt for that black smuge I was going to have to throw a rock at the boat in the driveway.
Whenever I buy a new vehicle (the last one was 2000), I purposefully drive it into a stout bush to get it over with as soon as I get it home. However, a work series F150 is not "No Excuse". Get a yellow roller! This boat with a black nose just won't be right, nor will the metal plate enhance it in any way.

Cracker Larry

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:18 am
by cottontop
Larry that is one beautiful boat. You have done a wonderful job. Your workmanship is impeccable. I can't wait to see her at the next meet. She will take all the honors. Yes, getting old is "H", but it beats the alternative. :D

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall, we couldn't have done it without all the help, suggestons and encouragement we get here 8)

It's a cold day and I'm inside working on getting the fonts and colors for the name squared away. This is where I'm at, what do you think? The little bit of blue is to play off the T-top canvas. I hate for it to be the only blue thing on the boat :doh:

Image

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
I can't wait to see her at the next meet. She will take all the honors
John, I hear the award this year is a set of plans for that new TW34 Jacques has been working on :P

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:04 pm
by Dog Fish
To build a TW34' I would have to name it SECOND MORTGAGE :!:

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:23 pm
by cape man
Image

I like it, and the blue is a good touch.

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you sir. That's all I needed was a confirmation :D It's ordered!

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:52 pm
by Vman777
Larry - The boat looks outstanding !!!! looks better most of the boat you can buy. I highly commend you for you great efforts :D

David

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you David. I appreciate that. :D Good to hear from you, you've been quiet lately.

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:23 pm
by cottontop
Larry, I like the name and "Font". The gray with blue outline will set it off nicely. Have you got your motor picked out? You don't know how many knowledgeable people have asked me why I didn't motor mine with a 90 hp. I hope to build another boat in a couple of years (got to get time to enjoy this one 1st) When I do I will add the xtra strengthening you did and set her up with the larger one:) Windy here and supposed to be around 27d for about 3-4 hours tonight. I know your glad to be almost done. John

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:36 pm
by TomW
The font looks great and the grey and blue are outstanding. Good job as on everything else.

Tom

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
John, I'm planning on a 90 Yamaha 2 stroke. It only weighs 260 pounds, less than most 50 hp 4 strokes.

How does yours perform with the 50 Merc?

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:08 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:Thank yall, we couldn't have done it without all the help, suggestons and encouragement we get here 8)

It's a cold day and I'm inside working on getting the fonts and colors for the name squared away. This is where I'm at, what do you think? The little bit of blue is to play off the T-top canvas. I hate for it to be the only blue thing on the boat :doh:

Image
I like it. Have you considered making it plural :doh: At the dock excuses usually come in bunches for me:

Water was too hot/cold
Front just came through
Bait was too small
Ran out of beer
Too many sharks

Richard :)

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:28 pm
by Joe H
Oh Man Larry, I know the general public is never going to be able to appreciate all the work behind this beautiful boat, but we sure do.

Joe

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:42 pm
by Biker B.O.B.
Mays-N-Haynes wrote:Oh Man Larry, I know the general public is never going to be able to appreciate all the work behind this beautiful boat, but we sure do.

Joe
+1 Excellent work!

I'll need a lot of patience to pull off a build anywhere near this quality; and likely still fall short.

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:49 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Image

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Our Taco rub rail came in today and I spent a couple of hours fighting the big black snake. It won this round :? We can see right now that we're going to need some help with this, it isn't easy. Too much for one man and a dog to wrestle into submission, especially on a cold day :help:

The name graphics should be here tomorrow, maybe Sam and I can handle that :doh:

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:39 pm
by cape man
I feel your pain. Tried to put a new one on a boat once. Thought getting the old one off was hard :help: It is not a one man job, even with a great supervisor like Sam. If you weren't 8 hours away I'd be there. Wait for help on that one is my advice. Know you are a one-man wrecking machine, but it may look that way when finished if you don't get at least one more set of hands. 8O

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:45 pm
by gk108
Mine is halfway fastened, stalled by the cold weather. I filled a 5 gal bucket with hot water and forced it into that, then laid the rubber along the rubrail and clamped the rear end to hold it. After that, I screwed the port bow in two places, 2" apart. Next, I took some ¼" nylon rope, tied a rolling hitch to the tail end at the stern, took the clamps off and pulled. The rubber was still warm enough to be a little elastic and I tied the rope off to the starboard stern cleat to hold it all against the boat. After that, it was just a bunch of drilling and screwing. I got as far as getting the starboard side pulled tight and cleated off. Probably missed my best chance to finish it today.

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've put on a couple of them with some assistance, but never tried it by myself. I think it must have been in hot weather too. That would help a lot.
Next, I took some ¼" nylon rope, tied a rolling hitch to the tail end at the stern, took the clamps off and pulled.


That's what I'm thinking, a rolling hitch to a come along, or a ratchet strap. Or wait until Saturday when I can get some help. Heating it is no problem, I've got a washtub and a propane burner. But it stiffens back up really fast in this weather. A lot faster than I can drill and screw on both sides. Supposed to get colder too. Also not sure how it's going to wrap around the bow. Maybe it's not :doh:

Nothing but a thing, just like all the rest of them. We'll get it in the end :lol:

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:31 pm
by jayb01
Larry, can you cut a slight "V" at the bow to help that rubrail make the turn?



For what it's worth....
Taco Rubrail installation video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl5ZlhvFbMw

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Jay. The rub rail kit came with an installation DVD, but they don't show you the bow or the transom bends, and what they showed looked sloppy. A cut may be necessary, I don't like sloppy :lol:

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:10 am
by TomW
Larry for the bow turn the best thing is heat. I like a nice hot electric paint removing gun, but a really good hair dryer may work okay also, it depends on how hot it can get. You don't want to do any cutting it will not look good. That TACO rubrail is basically solid PVC so it takes a bit of effort to get it to do what you want it to do.

Good luck and look forward to seeing it on NO EXCUSE!

Tom

PS Be careful not to melt it! :lol: :D

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:17 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, I've got a heat gun, but a little scared of it around the paint :? It's going to take some heat to make the bend though. Will need to be real careful. It's pretty solid, that's for sure :!:

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:44 am
by Vman777
Larry, you can make a couple of wood jigs (bow shape, stern etc.) don't have to be right on the money, but close. Then pre-bend them using the heat gun. That way you don't have to worry about the great paint job.

Better to screw up a jig or the molding, then screw up the boat.

I have done this a bunch of times on custom cabinetry using PVC molding.

David

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:18 am
by ks8
I second the jigs. After coming this far, you can take another day to build a jig and preform the bumpy. :D

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:55 am
by gk108
I don't think you'll have to worry about the heat gun around the paint. Use the low setting and keep it moving around the area you want to bend. The instructions say 120° water and that's about all the temp you need to get it bent around the corners. I was surprised at how well it wrapped around the bow with help from the heat gun. No need to cut any reflief for the bends. :wink:

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:15 am
by Bayport_Bob
They also recommend cutting a short piece of the insert material and putting that in place as you bend around a radius to help the trim maintain its shape.

I'm not sure if that's on the DVD or if I saw it online somewhere.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:17 am
by TomW
Larry there should be no problem. Like Gary said keep it on low and it doesn't take a lot. You'll never get the heat gun close to the paint. :D

Tom

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:41 am
by tech_support
larry, if you have a big oyster steam pot or turkey fryer use it to heat up water, pour that water into a drum with the rub rail in it - it will be very soft. thats how we did it recently with the aquasport.

I would look for some extra help to pull it while you fasten.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:53 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the suggestions :D

I think I'll cut a couple of feet and play with it on the bends. I don't see how it can wrap the bow without buckling or creasing. I think the wooden rub rail maybe should have been plumb cut, instead of following the bow angle which is almost 45 degrees.

We'll see how it works out :doh:

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:21 am
by gk108
I agree on the plumb cut. I did do some contouring on my bow before I finished it. I don't have a good picture of it, but here's the bow before contouring.
.Image
I used the belt sander to make the little trapezoid flat into more of a rectangle and blended it back about 8" while rounding it off.
This sort of shows it after blending the contour.
Image
I thought it would help, but I didn't do anything like it on the transom and it still went pretty much where I wanted it to.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:27 am
by deedee
i know what you mean about the bow end at the rubrail area being plum cut. my bow area is about on a 45 degree tilt. i am prolly gonna just use a little better than half round teak or purple heart strip as my rubrail . just don't have the guts to put on a rubrail. good luck. your boat is a piece of art !! :D

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:30 am
by deedee
gk,
didn't see your post . thats really nice looking bright work too!! i will probably have to do a little of the same.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:23 am
by gk108
deedee wrote:gk,
didn't see your post . thats really nice looking bright work too!! i will probably have to do a little of the same.
Thanks, David. I'll try to get some pictures of the finished rubrail soon.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
I agree on the plumb cut.
know what you mean about the bow end at the rubrail area being plum cut. my bow area is about on a 45 degree tilt.
Exactly the problem. Should have made the rubrail plumb for this to work at the bow. Live and learn :doh:

I've spent the last couple of hours experimenting with a 2' section and the heat gun. The transom will be no problem, that bend will conform, but it's not going to happen at the bow. I'm either going to have to re-shape the bow to plumb, (I hate to think about that at this point :help: ), or just stop the rubrail short of the bow and cap it with end caps. I think that would look better than a sloppy buckled up fold :?:

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:02 pm
by cape man
or just stop the rubrail short of the bow and cap it with end caps. I think that would look better than a sloppy buckled up fold
You get my vote for this option. If you make it look clean, it actually is still quite functional, as the rub rail is most important along the sides while docked. Give her nose a little metal cap if you think you are going to be rubbing into stuff there.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:42 pm
by TomW
Nothing wrong at all with stopping it short and capping it. Will, like you say look better than an imporperly rounded bow. Go for it. I will propbably end up doing the same thing but I'm going to use a solid RR and can give it a nice angle cut. I think I'll have the same problem as you just to small a boat and to small a curve.

Good luck on your pondering :D

Tom

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:47 pm
by ks8
I did the same with my hardwood rubrail trim at the bow. Didn't bother trying to make the turn. I did make the turn at the transom though.

And if I recall the encouragement of another builder on this board, *fenders are used as you approach a dock*. So if you really think the bow needs protection, you could hang an old tire wrapped in netting over the bow.

I trust whatever you do will be well thought out in light of the many years experience behind you, and the motivation to do this one right, with *No Excuse*. :D

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:03 pm
by ericsil
Thanks for the early warning on the rub rail problems. I was just about to order from Taco myself thinking it was a 30 min job. Perhaps I will ponder a little first.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
After further pondering we have come up with a successful solution that looks good :D

Sam suggested that if we just treated it like a piece of wood and cut it to fit with some compound miter joints, it should work. So I cut a couple of short lengths to make some practice cuts.

We used a bevel gauge to figure the angles and transferred these to the old radial arm saw. The power saw cuts the cold rail just like soft wood, and makes a nice clean cut. It took more than a few test cuts and saw adjustments to get the pattern pieces to fit perfectly. When it was set just right we duplicated the cuts on the rail ends.

Image

They fit real good, will just need to round the nose over a little to ease the point.

We still haven't installed anything, but now it all is fit and ready and tested, and we've got a workable plan to start us off tomorrow. :D

I was just about to order from Taco myself thinking it was a 30 min job
:lol: Better allow a couple of days :wink: And don't order it from Taco, these people here will save you a hundred $ or more 8) Richard gave me this link and they are by far the least expensive I've found. And they got it to us in 3 days.

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/F ... Rails.html

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:51 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:After further pondering we have come up with a successful solution that looks good :D

Sam suggested that if we just treated it like a piece of wood and cut it to fit with some compound miter joints, it should work. So I cut a couple of short lengths to make some practice cuts.

We used a bevel gauge to figure the angles and transferred these to the old radial arm saw. The power saw cuts the cold rail just like soft wood, and makes a nice clean cut. It took more than a few test cuts and saw adjustments to get the pattern pieces to fit perfectly. When it was set just right we duplicated the cuts on the rail ends.


They fit real good, will just need to round the nose over a little to ease the point.

We still haven't installed anything, but now it all is fit and ready and tested, and we've got a workable plan to start us off tomorrow. :D

I was just about to order from Taco myself thinking it was a 30 min job
:lol: Better allow a couple of days :wink: And don't order it from Taco, these people here will save you a hundred $ or more 8) Richard gave me this link and they are by far the least expensive I've found. And they got it to us in 3 days.

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/F ... Rails.html

I'm not sure how well the cuts will work out once you start heating and stretching it into place. I'd imagine it's going to induce a lot of frustration trying to get the mitered joint to stay tight. It's hard enough to get nice tight compound miters in cabinetry, moreless on the snake that things going to become once you start installing it. . :) I'd go that route only if I would be covering the joint with a SS cap.


If they make a black 5200, you could smooge a bunch in as you put on the second side and clean of the squeeze out. That would probably look ok. But it still might end up sloppy.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
But it still might end up sloppy
No hell it won't either :!: You don't know me. It may hit some sloppy points along the way, but when it ends up it will not be sloppy :lol:

They do make black 5200 :wink: And a metal cap isn't out of the question either. But it won't end up sloppy :wink:

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:33 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:
But it still might end up sloppy
No hell it won't either :!: You don't know me. It may hit some sloppy points along the way, but when it ends up it will not be sloppy :lol:

They do make black 5200 :wink: And a metal cap isn't out of the question either. But it won't end up sloppy :wink:

You're nothing if not understated. ;)

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:41 pm
by TomW
Larry when you fasten it remember it's cold now, when you get your 100 degree summer heat that black PVC is going to want to swell on you. So put some fasteners as close as possible to the nose and maybe even glue it.

The joint looks sharp. :D Well done. 8)

Tom

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
You're nothing if not understated.
Your advice was good and appreciated Steven, I hope you didn't take offense :oops: I think we'll have to end up with some kind of cap to act as an expansion joint cover. As Tom said, temp changes will create joint changes. 5200 may handle it, maybe not. In any case, it still won't end up sloppy :P

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:49 pm
by gk108
Which size is that rubber? I have the old bow cap from the Glastron I demolished. It looks like it will fully cover the 1 1/16" rubber that I have. The bow angle is right around 90°. It's yours if you want it. Transom corner caps, too.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks GK :!: But I dont think it will fit. This is 1 7/8"H X 1 3/16" thick.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:09 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry I like the mitres. They should look fine, IMHO. You want the Taco on the bow no matter what, again IMHO. The end caps won't look good on the bow, again IMHO. The boat is looking great :!:

Pssst, I got a 870 camo pump for the boat :wink: Derrick was helpful with other gear as well :wink: Don't tell anyone about this conversation...

Richard

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Richard. I didn't like the end cap look on the bow either. It needs to wrap and a cut mitre was the only way to make it happen

Hope you like the Walmart pump gun :wink: Wondering just what good camo does on the water :doh:

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:02 am
by TomW
Maybe it's blue and white camo Larry. :P :D

Tom

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:29 am
by cape man
Somehow I knew you would figure this out :D Hope it works for you.

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Maybe it's blue and white camo Larry.


I'm thinking it's probably black :wink:

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dang it sure is cold down south :help: We nearly ran out of firewood last night, I think we burned a cord this week. So this morning's rub rail installation was interrupted with cutting, splitting, hauling, and stacking another truck load of oak.

After that, Dori helped me out and we got one side of the rail installed to satisfaction, even though it was only about 45 degrees and windy.

I screwed the starboard side of the pattern piece at the bow, to position the rail splice, and we cooked up some rub rail soup using a propane burner and a washtub. This made it almost soft as spaghetti and very easy to stretch and bend. Relatively speaking of course :|

Image

When it was done, we quickly attached it at the bow, tight up to the pattern with 3 screws, then stretched it like a banjo string. Got some clamps and screws in the stern to keep it stretched. Bedded it with plenty of 5200, and drilled and installed all the screws. It came out great we think :D

Image

At the transom we slowly worked with the heat gun and bent it around the corner. Had to cut out a little "V" notch in the underside to keep it from having a buckle.

Image

We put a couple more screws in this to get the ripples out. There is an insert that will cover all the screw heads and 5200.

Sounds easy but it was a good lick of work. Tomorrow we'll get the other side on, now with more confidence :D

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:30 pm
by BassMunn
Looks good Larry, really finishes the boat off nicely.

Quote Cracker Larry: Sounds easy but it was a good lick of work

I'm just learning how even the little things that seem easy, seem to take so long to do right, but it's all in the fun I suppose.

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:31 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Looks great! Also brings back memories. My kit said it had 200 screws. I think there was a few hundred more :lol: Did you have any puckering near the screws heads ? I can't see that in the pics but it was a minor issue for me.

A little tip if you are using a vinyl insert. Put the insert in a bucket of Dawn and hot water and it will pop in about 2 miniutes. Slick as a whistle.

Richard

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:55 pm
by cape man
Looking sharp!

You have a coyote problem up there?
Image

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:34 am
by TomW
Looks real good, love the rubrail soup! :lol: You going to package and sell that? :D

Tom

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Did you have any puckering near the screws heads ?
Yes, a little bit in spots. Seems to be unavoidable, but it helps to keep the plastic warm when putting in the screws. There are a lot of screws!

Thanks for the tip on the insert 8)
You have a coyote problem up there?


No, the coyotes have a problem up here :lol:
Looks real good, love the rubrail soup! You going to package and sell that?


No, it a little off flavor. Better stick with stones.

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:04 am
by gk108
Don't know about the rubrail soup, but I've had some tasty bilgewater bouillabaisse. :D

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
Not sure I've ever had a bouillabaisse'd anything :doh:

With Mrs. Cracker's good help again we kicked that rub rails @ss today :D More rubber soup, more pulling and stretching and drilling and caulking and screwing and cussin. But she done good and Sam stayed out her way. I think she only cussed me once :) And I remained silent for fear of losing her help :wink:

Getting the insert installed was as difficult as getting the rail on. We used a bucket full of hot water with dish soap, but it's so cold that you can't install it fast enough from the bucket to the boat. So we had to work it in with the heat gun and a rubber mallet, a little at a time.

But it came out very nice and even Mrs. Cracker is very pleased with it. Sam says if Momma's happy, he's happy 8)

Image

Steven is right about the miter at the bow, it is not going to stay tight. Close but not great, and I'll probably make a cap for it. Otherwise she's better than most factory rail installs.

Image


Image


Image

Glad this job is over, and moving on :D

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:10 pm
by chicagoross
she's better than most factory rail installs
That's an understatment. Everything on this boat is better than anything I've seen from a factory...

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:57 pm
by Dougster
Good Lord, you and Mrs. Cracker got it goin' on. I mean just look at that boat! You the rising tide liftin' all boats. You the cat with the strat that's elevatin' the band. That is one special boat for sure. Tell me about the screws in the Taco rail. Surely you didn't over drill and poxy fill? No. 5200 bed? But then it wouldn't remove well... Dunno

Glad for you Dougster

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:09 pm
by Vman777
I still can't get over how good your boat looks Larry. That paint shine is awesome.

Now all you need is some awesome graphics....... :P

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:12 pm
by JBRoberts
Cracker...what a beautiful boat !! Hope my OD16 comes out as half as nice as yours.

Where did you get the 'cat eye' red/green nav lights from ? I like them...tks...JB

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:01 am
by ks8
well done. :)

the build almost done... soon the mission begins! may it be carried out as well as the build. :D

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:04 am
by Steven
Larry,

I know you've heard this a few times :), but that is one beautiful boat. The OD series is my favorite Bateau design. It just looks right. I wish It was pratical for my needs. I'd love to own one. Maybe you can "caulk" the joint with black 5200. As precise as you work, I can't imagine the joint is opened much.

And thanks for the great detail in this thread. I've built two boats now and have it pretty well figured out, but there's always something to learn. My next build will have a nice rub rail, and now I know to plumb the rail instead of following the angle of the bow. :)

Can't wait to see pictures of her in the water and under way.

Cheers,
Steven

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am
by TomW
WOW! She is georgeous. Not many steps left to go.

Tom

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:55 am
by bernd1
Somebody has stolen the engine... :P

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:16 am
by gk108
I like the looks of that rubrail job. It seems like you could get some pieces of appropriately sized aluminum conduit and maybe a bit of flat stock and fabricate a cap for the bow. The question is, would you build a chock or roller into it? :?:

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:59 am
by Cracker Larry
Everything on this boat is better than anything I've seen from a factory...
Thanks CR, that was our goal, to build a better boat than we could buy at any price. Sam's done a pretty good job of it, but I wish he was a better painter.
I mean just look at that boat!
That's exactly what I've been doing Dougster, looking at it :lol: Hard to believe we actually built something with our 2 hands that looks this good.
Tell me about the screws in the Taco rail. Surely you didn't over drill and poxy fill? No. 5200 bed?
I wish I could, but there is no way to pre-drill and fill these screw holes. You'd never get the rail stretched on exactly the same way twice. This material is real tough to work with and you have to move fast before it cools off. 50 feet long and it weighs 1 pound per foot :!:

I used 5200, a bead down the entire rail and every screw thread is coated with it before installing. I've got a lot of confidence in 5200, it will keep it sealed. I'm not worried about removing it, but it will come off if it needs to. The paint will come off with it though :wink:
Now all you need is some awesome graphics.......
Thanks David! Hopefully we'll get those graphics installed today. Not as awesome as your design, much simpler. One day I still hope to use the Black Jack graphics you designed for me. 8) So many boats to build, so little time...
Cracker...what a beautiful boat !! Hope my OD16 comes out as half as nice as yours.

Where did you get the 'cat eye' red/green nav lights from ? I like them...tks...JB
Thank you JB. It will turn out as nice as you want it too :wink:

4 rules I try to follow...Never settle for good enough if you know you can do better. Always sand, fill and fair 3 times as much as you intended to. Ask questions and research anything you don't completely understand. And anytime you get mad, frustrated, tired and disgusted, stop, just walk away. Leave it alone for a day or 2. Solutions and new approaches to a problem will come to you while you're trying to sleep or while you are doing something else. Time spent pondering is never wasted.

The nav lights came from Iboats, here is a link....

http://www.iboats.com/Under_39_Boat_Sid ... _id.362676

Thank you too KS, Tom, Steven, Bernd, GK... :D . Without all of your help and advice, and moral support, this boat would never be this nice. I appreciate yall.
It seems like you could get some pieces of appropriately sized aluminum conduit and maybe a bit of flat stock and fabricate a cap for the bow. The question is, would you build a chock or roller into it?


Now that's a darn good idea GK :!: I'll ponder on that.

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:12 am
by Murry
Nice job Larry :!:

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:02 pm
by TomW
Don't you love this cold weather. Rain or snow here today and tomorrow and high's in the 30's again. We actually had 10 last week. To early for this BS.

Looks like you have very little left to do after wrestling with that rubrail. Just the T-top and motor and probably a few little things.

Don't know if you are going with a stainless prop but if you are check these guys out $80 cheaper than I-boat and an exchange option also. You may have them bookmarked already: http://www.dansdiscountprops.com/BuyNow ... advantage1

Tom

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Murray.

Tom, prop will certainly be stainless, that's a good link andI didn't have that one, thank you.

The weather doesn't support the global warming theory. The whole month of November has been the kind of weather we usually don't get until February :doh: Supposed to start raining here soon. The only thing worse than cold is cold and rain :cry:
Now all you need is some awesome graphics.......
OK David, I don't know about awesome but here they are.....this is not photoshop :lol:

Image

It was very easy to apply and looks pretty sharp. Better than I could ever do by hand. I'll leave that to KS :P

Sam and I finished both sides before the bad weather. Once it passes we'll start on the T top. The list is getting shorter. The best feeling so far was when I put the RO sander back in it's case and up on the shelf :!:

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:19 pm
by cape man
Perfect. Just perfect. Graphics say it all.

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:30 pm
by Lucky_Louis
:D

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:49 pm
by TomW
OH Yea :!: Looks great! :D

I thought you might like that link they not only have Stiletto but also Turbo's which a lot of people think are superior. Saw one survey where people were going for Turbo's over Stiletto's 4/1. Prices are about the same as far as I can determine. Made by the same company in Indianapolis, IN. Damn Yankees have to make some of the best props! :lol:

Tom

Cracker Larrys OD 18

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:59 pm
by cottontop
Larry there aren't enough words, adjectives, etc. to describe how well your boat looks. I agree with everyone on the rubrail. I was fortunate enough to have 105 d weather the day I installed mine. It's a real pain, but dresses the build up that much more. I'm looking forward to checking her out up close and possibly a ride at the next meet. I've started reading your build notes. Love everything so far and copied down some hints for my next build. Only problem is I still have 100 pages to go. Have you found a motor? P John

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:50 pm
by Vman777
OK David, I don't know about awesome but here they are.....this is not photoshop
Larry, looks good!! Did you already put it on? or is that just done in a program like photoshop?

Looks like it is already on the boat.

I like the lettering, suits the name well. Nice thing is you can always jazz up the lettering later with some graphics.

Which font syle is that?

David

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:53 pm
by slump67
SLICK!!!

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:22 pm
by tobolamr
Was that a peel-n-stick deal, or was it a decal?

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:18 pm
by gk108
That's great looking. The shadowed lettering really makes it stand out. 8)

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks John, I think the rubber rail is the only part of the project that would be easier in 105 degree weather . We found it to be a challenge at 45 degrees.

Don't check her out too close. She ain't perfect, just as good as I could make her. 4 coats of paint and each one has a problem. Got some flaws just like me :lol: Hopefully I can get an engine before the meeting :doh:
Larry, looks good!! Did you already put it on? or is that just done in a program like photoshop?
Yeah, that's installed, done, finished. It's really not photoshop :wink: Font style is called Indiana Jones.
Was that a peel-n-stick deal, or was it a decal?
I'm not sure of the terminology, peel and stick I guess, let me show you this...

Image

The lettering is sandwiched between a backing paper and a covering paper. You get it lined up like this and using the masking tape as a hinge, you lift it up and peel off the backing. Then you very carefully squeege it out smooth and tight from the top down using a plastic spreader. The covering paper is like wax paper and you rub over it firmly with the spreader. When you're feeling brave, you pull off the top paper and all that's left are the lettering. Pretty cool stuff, I've never done it before and it was easy.

Here is a link where we got it...they were very reasonable and quick, and the vinyl is guaranteed for 8 years.

http://www.boatletteringtoyou.com/lettering/

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:50 am
by Oceola
Larry,

The boat looks great...I'm exausted from just watching the build, bet you're ready for a break.
I like the graphics...how about a one or two inch blue boot stripe to match the blue in the graphics shadow?
Again, congratulations on a job well done!

Frank

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:54 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Frank. I am considering a blue boot stripe but I think I want to see the water line first.

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:23 am
by ks8
Will we see it with the overlay removed? :P

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:19 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Image

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Will we see it with the overlay removed?


Keep up KS, that was yesterday :P

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:02 pm
by topwater
Outstanding....... :!: everything came together real nice.
we use the same type of lettering when we do the sides of
tractortrailers, it sometimes helps to use a little water
with a spay bottle"spray the area first then do just like
CL said"it helps it lay down and minimize air bubbles.
again it looks great.

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks TW.

Yes, the directions said to use a little sprayed water with large sized graphics to help minimize bubbles, but they recommended dry for smaller sizes. I went dry and only had a couple of tiny ( yes KS, people still say tiny) bubbles. I pricked them with my pocket knife point and pressed out the air. I was impressed with the product, most things don't work as easy as advertised for me. This actually did :D

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:19 am
by ks8
Looks great! :)

Is that a partial metallic or is it lighting doing that, or the hour of the night?

Will you have a bullwhip on the boat, Herr Jones?

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:55 am
by Cracker Larry
It's the lighting. The gray is a metallic silver gray that looks a different color in different lighting. Anywhere from dark gray to shiny silver.

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:39 am
by Murry
Why does Crystal River have to be so far away from Richmond, VA?
I want to see "No Excuse" upclose. The graphics look great Larry :!:

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:00 am
by Cracker Larry
Well that ain't no excuse :P Just a days drive. Tom comes from the Smoky Mountains and Joe comes from way up north. Huck and Muddler come from Alabama. It's 6 or 7 hours for me pulling a boat. So get in the truck or catch a plane and come on down 8)

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:02 am
by jgroves
Graphics look great! I like your color choices!

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:34 pm
by Lower
Love the name and graphic...nice touch!

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:47 pm
by mecreature
Man O man larry that is sweet.. Love the name.


you may end up with a house full...

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
Jeremy, Lower, Jeff, many thanks to you :D

Been working on electronics today, trying to get the GPS and radio interfaced and talking to each other. Think I've got it figured out.

Cool stuff when it works :doh: The radio screen will display course, speed, position and nav info from the GPS, freeing up the main GPS screen for fishfinding or chart plotting. If I should ever send a Mayday, our GPS position is also transmitted automatically to all receiving stations. If we receive a Mayday call, we also get the calling ship's position information displayed on the radio screen as lat/lon, and it is automatically transferred to the chart plotter as a waypoint. 8)

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:47 pm
by tobolamr
Wow - that sounds like an awesome setup!

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:13 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, the electronics set-up is sweet. What brand did you buy?

The graphics also are nice :wink: Would you mind sharing the height and length with me?

Thanks...

Richard

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:01 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Richard. The radio is a Uniden, the chart plotter is a Humminbird 797C2.

Graphics are 7" H X 42" L. Did you ever get Red Alert squared away with her name?

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:33 pm
by TomW
Richard I also have the Uniden bookmarked as my radio of choice. I don't know if Larry went with the 455 or 525 only difference is a few added features, $20 and a little height.

Larry one of the things that none of the web sites show are the dimensions. What are the dimensions of your Uniden. Thanks mucho! :D

Tom

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'll measure it tomorrow for you Tom, and give you the model number.

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:18 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote: Graphics are 7" H X 42" L. Did you ever get Red Alert squared away with her name?

I need to finish my graphics, and the size of yours looks like the perfect example of what I need to do. Thanks for the info :wink:

Richard I also have the Uniden bookmarked as my radio of choice. Tom

Tom, I like Uniden and Icom radios. I have a DSC enabled radio on my Pursuit. They work pretty nice as Larry described earlier. Glad I haven't needed to use the rescue mode so far.


Larry, congrats on your 200,000th hit of your thread. You have given many including myself copious valuable tips. The entertainment has been an added bonus as well :D

Richard

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:31 pm
by gk108
Does the DSC only broadcast position for emergencies, or can you send your position at any time?

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:41 pm
by TomW
Gary the DSC emergency frequency is a speciffically designated frequency. Some radios allow you to set up a group frquency to keep track of each other when you broadcast. These are of course the higher priced ones. :D

Tom

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:31 pm
by gk108
TomW wrote:These are of course the higher priced ones.
That's why I never noticed them. :D

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry one of the things that none of the web sites show are the dimensions. What are the dimensions of your Uniden. Thanks mucho!
Tom, mine is the UM525. Dimensions are 6 1/2"W X 4 1/2" H. The cut out to flush mount it is 5 1/2" X 3 1/2". Didn't measure the depth, maybe 4 1/2" .

gk108 Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does the DSC only broadcast position for emergencies, or can you send your position at any time?

Gary the DSC emergency frequency is a speciffically designated frequency. Some radios allow you to set up a group frquency to keep track of each other when you broadcast. These are of course the higher priced ones.

Tom
Gary, sorry but Tom is mistaken. DSC is Distintive Selective Calling. It's like having a phone number for your VHF, and is a different feature than position reporting, although they can work together.

Your position can be broadcast by you at will to any station who has the same technology to receive it. You can broadcast your position with every transmission, or selectively to stations you desire. Other radios can querry (request) your position and you can choose to send it to them or not, based on their DSC or other factors. You can select to send position to all listening stations or just certain ones. You can block your position by DSC also.

That is all user programmable, but if you send or receive a Mayday, it overrides user settings and sends or receives to/from everyone.
can you send your position at any time?
Short answer :lol: Yes. At any time to everyone, or to anyone you have selectively chosen. Such as your fishing partner in another boat only 8)

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:09 pm
by gk108
That's what I was wondering. You could accidentally give up all of your favorite honey holes if you aren't careful. 8O

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, you sure could if you aren't careful :lol:

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:31 am
by TomW
Larry you defind it better than me, I wasn't very clear and still learning. Sorry Gary I knew it could be done just not sure how, like I said I had seen it discussed on the better radios. Thanks for the explanation Larry. Can it be done with any DSC VHF or as I have seen it must be with similar equipment.

Thanks for the measurements and model #. That is the exact same one I have bookmarked. The size was the only peice missing in the design of my console. Depth is not a problem I have plenty of room.

Hope you had a good Thanksgiving and again thank you.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:29 am
by Cracker Larry
My pleasure Tom. I'm still learning it also and am still unclear about some of the features, but I've read the manual a few times and played with it a little bit.

Another good feature of the radio is a built in hailer with listen back, and an automatic fog horn. The fog horn uses the GPS to determine if you are in International, inland, Western rivers or Great Lake waters and provides the correct horn signals and intervals. It determines if you are underway so it sounds the underway signal. If the boat isn't moving you have the choice of Anchored or Aground signal. And (this is cool ) it has a yelp siren that will really slow down a boat blasting past your fishing hole 8)

Hope to get the T top on this week, then I can mount the GPS and radio antennas and play with it some more. It finally quit raining after 4 solid days of wet. Now we've got cold and wind again, high of only 50. Don't know if I should try setting bolts in epoxy at that temp. Probably not :doh:

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:23 am
by TomW
One of the reasons it was at the top of my list was the fog signals and hailer, with the automatic determination that makes it that much slicker. Wow. :D You are not going to believe it but I had put in a temporary size of 6.5 x 4.5 on the console until I got the exact measurements. Just a WAG, but it was right on.

I read one place that to use DSC you must register the radio, is this correct?

Have fun with the T-top and mounting the antennas.

It's snowing here again and low 30's

Again thanks.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:17 am
by Dog Fish
Larry, I did some searching on the internet and on the Hummingbird web site about the 797c2. I found a lot of good reviews, it looks like you picked out a pretty cool machine. It really dose some crazy stuff. They have really come along way with electronics haven't they. :)

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes it is a very cool machine. I had a Humminbird 383 color combo in my GF16 and I loved it. I had already flush mounted it in the new boat, and installed a new transducer and power cables. When I sold the GF, the buyer was wanting to kick in a few extra $ to get the 383, so I needed a replacement for the OD. That would preferably work with the same transducer and cables., because the transducer is forever epoxied to the hull :help: The 797 was the best one compatable so that's why I chose it. It cost the same amount today that I paid for the 383 four years ago, with a zillion more features, larger screen, higher resolution and lots of add ons. I did have to enlarge the dash cutout a little, but everything else was plug and go.

I read one place that to use DSC you must register the radio, is this correct?
Yes, I've spent some research time this morning and got it taken care of. Thank the Lord for Google!

If it is a commercial vessel it has to have an FCC station license and they issue the MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identity) number with the license, for a fee of course :wink:

But, if it is a pleasure vessel in the US, both SeaTow and BoatUS are authorized to issue the MMSI and they register it with all the powers that be. Free of charge and it only takes few minutes online 8) You don't even have to be a member.

They get all your information, emergency contacts, phone numbers, boat description, home port, da, da, da.....and issue the number on the spot.

I used the BoatUS website, which also has a lot of information..

http://www.boatus.com/mmsi/

My MMSI is now 338085988. Don't send me no spam :lol:

I'm going to copy and paste this from the BoatUS site, it explains it better than Tom and I.

About MMSI Registration for VHF Radios with DSC

Your VHF radio is the single most important piece of safety equipment you can have on board your vessel. By using a VHF radio with Digital Select Calling (DSC) capability, you increase your safety dramatically by taking advantage of enhanced communications options. These options link you to other vessels and rescue facilities, providing a strong, modern safety net.

The Role of BoatU.S.:BoatU.S. has been authorized by both the Federal Communications Commission and the U.S. Coast Guard to assign MMSI numbers to vessels with DSC capable radios that are not required by law to carry a radio, and do not make international voyages or communications. BoatU.S. is responsible for relaying the MMSI registration information to the U.S. Coast Guard for search and rescue purposes.

The BoatU.S. MMSI Service is limited by agreement to registering recreational vessels only - those not otherwise required to have an FCC ship station license (also called "voluntarily equipped".) Vessels required to carry a radio on board are "compulsory equipped" and therefore FCC licensed and should obtain an MMSI from the FCC.

GMDSS (Global Maritime Distress & Safety System): Is a major overhaul of the international system governing safety radio equipment on commercial ships. While recreational boaters are not required to participate in GMDSS, for safety reasons it makes sense to take advantage of the improved telecommunications, and rapid distress monitoring and reporting for mariners.

For more information on GMDSS visit:
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/gmdssfaq.htm

DSC (Digital Selective Calling): Marine radios equipped with DSC serve as one facet of the GMDSS. A DSC equipped radio has all the features of your current VHF radio, and more. DSC technology makes a VHF radio work more like a telephone. It allows boaters to send a digital call directly to another DSC-equipped vessel or shore station, much like a person-to-person telephone call.

Channel 70 has been set aside as the VHF/DSC digital call channel. Once the DSC call has been confirmed, both parties are automatically switched to a working voice channel.

In an emergency, one push of a button and your DSC radio will send an automated digital distress alert consisting of your identification (MMSI) number, and position (if your radio is linked to a GPS receiver) to other DSC-equipped vessels and rescue facilities.

MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identity): Obtaining an MMSI is necessary in order to use the DSC functions of the radio. The MMSI number serves as both a nine digit “telephone numberâ€

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:01 pm
by cape man
Thanks for the info Larry. I had an FCC license for a boat I owned in the late 80's - early 90's. Found out it wasn't actually "required" for pleasure craft after I paid them the fee. Nice to get the link for a freebee. The automatic position broadcast is a neat development. Have no problem with getting help the best and fastest way when you really need it, and if anyone wants everyone to leave them alone, turn the function off, or better yet, turn the radio off.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:18 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks for the link, Larry! I never tried to interface the radio and chartplotter because I knew I'm bad about that registration, glad there's an easier way! Still learning things from your thread! I've also wasted several hours designing boat names at your link! :D :D

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Even if you don't register it you should do the interface. It will still broadcast the Mayday with your gps position tagged with the message, they just won't be able to cross reference it to a database with your personal information.

They really don't need your name, address and phone number to rescue you, it's just for next of kin if they don't find you :wink:

That lettering site is pretty cool and the best prices. Fast too, I had them 3 days after ordering. Iboats.com also has one that is more extensive with many more options. It's fun but they are over twice the price for the exact same thing, same vinyl, same warranty. There are others too if you google boat lettering, but you can spend days with all those too :lol:

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Finally had some good weather this week and Sam and I got the T-top permanently installed.


Now that we've got her out from under the shed we can stand back and see what she looks like. Sam says she'll do :D

For some reason we didn't document the work in progress, but it was a fair amount of work, and a mess with setting the bolts in epoxy. I had masked and papered most of the cockpit which proved to be a good idea.

Image

You can see we,ve still got some ratchet straps and the bow winch holding everything in place until the epoxy sets good.


Image


Image


Image


Image

So that's another item done :D Next is rigging with antennas, hailer, lights and whatever else we decide. Supposed to rain again tomorrow :doh: I'll probably rig a cover for her.

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:39 pm
by cape man
Wow. "Who made that boat?" "Where'd you buy it?" "How much are they?" "Want to sell it?"

Might just say the heck with fishing the mangrove creeks after seeing the lines with that top. Let's go get some dolphin!

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:44 pm
by wegcagle
WOW :!: Larry, You've done one heck of a job. Congrats, I know you've gotta be excited. PS when is No Excuse gonna get her giddyup??

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: And where'd that top come from :?: I can't thank you enough for the T top Craig 8)

Let's go bill fishing, we'll use chicken dolphin for bait :lol:

PS when is No Excuse gonna get her giddyup??
Ya got any idea when the stock market might recover :doh:

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm
by cape man
Glad to have found it. Consider it payment for all the help you've been to me and others (even the moonshine skeg shoe :lol: ). Did you decide to not use the windshield frame?

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Did you decide to not use the windshield frame?
Really haven't decided. Now that the top is on, I'll play with it and see how it looks.

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:43 pm
by wegcagle
Ya got any idea when the stock market might recover
Hopefully by the time I'm ready to get my new outboard (seeing as how my starting supplies are supposed to arrive in the next couple of days) :?

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:58 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I knew rain nor cold would stop you from getting the top set upon that fine boat :!: She looks great Larry :D

I was wondering, do you need a drilling jig for holes in the transom :doh: I got one somewhere that I popped the holes in my transom with. It clamps on the transom and the holes were drilled with a CNC router. I was thinking of donating the rig to the tool exchange. Let me know if you might need it.

Again great work....

Richard

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:06 pm
by TomW
Now that's a fishing machine. :!: Glad it stayed clear for you to get the top on. Started raining here today looking like it's heading your way.

Well done again and it really looks good.

Tom

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:56 pm
by tedbayrer
All I can say is wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Ted

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall, she's coming together nicely :D

Richard, I appreciate the jig offer 8) , but I can build one in a few minutes so it's really not worth the hassle of shipping.

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:30 pm
by Dougster
Well I'll sure join in on the applause. What a thing to have made with your own hands. Many won't believe it. All your time in her is rewarded, with even better time to come. Maybe's she's too pretty for mud and blood. You could shrink wrap her and just stare at her every night till Mrs. Cracker got tired of it. Nah,

Bets you get her all muddy and fish bloody Dougster

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:32 pm
by Murry
Beautiful job Larry!!!!!! :!:

The top looks perfect on No Excuse.

Larry if you have time can you explain how you mounted the fasteners in epoxy. If I recall correctly, you had made an epoxy plug for the future top installation, but I thought you had tapped those plugs for the fasteners.

Will you be able to remove the bolts if needed in the future?

Just trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks
Daniel

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:34 pm
by ks8
What? No fish sticks in place for the pictures??

Nice all the same! :D

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Not quite ready for fish sticks yet KS, thanks :lol:
Larry if you have time can you explain how you mounted the fasteners in epoxy. If I recall correctly, you had made an epoxy plug for the future top installation, but I thought you had tapped those plugs for the fasteners.
No, they aren't tapped. I first shaped a pocket for the bolt and nut with foam and epoxy. Then I poured thickened epoxy in the holes and set the bolts with nuts into the wet epoxy. This should make it clear...

Image
Will you be able to remove the bolts if needed in the future?
Yes, I coated the bolts with silicone spray so the epoxy wouldn't stick to the threads. It might take a little heat but they can be removed.

Dougster, thanking you, this boats going to get real bloody :lol:

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:10 pm
by Murry
Thanks Larry.

I thought that you set the nut in the epoxy when you first explained what you were doing weeks ago.

I now understand that you just set the nuts in the thickened epoxy when you installed the top.

Got it. thanks.

The top won't be going anywhere, that's for sure.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:37 am
by ks8
Murry wrote:The top won't be going anywhere, that's for sure.
...except with the boat. :P Love those idioms! What would we do without them! (sorry... it's late...) :lol:

Cracker Larrys OD18

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:12 am
by cottontop
Larry, There aren't enough adjectives to describe the fine work you have done. I'm jealous. John :D :D :D :D

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:13 am
by Murry
ks8 :lol:

I had that thought just before I selected submit.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:52 am
by jbo_c
Awesome build, Larry. I've thoroughly enjoyed following it. I'm sure we don't have to tell you to be proud, but you definitely should be.

Jbo

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:48 am
by jgroves
Top notch work :!: NO EXCUSE looks great out in the open. You will never get on the water at the ramp.... everybody will want to talk to you about her. :D

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:56 am
by bernd1
A really beautiful boat !

By the way, how do you slip the boat?
I saw no rolls at your trailer.
For my GF16 I want to mount some rolls for easy slip and also large planks covered with a piece of carpet to sit good during transport.

I think rolls are a must for easy slipping.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:56 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks again for all the comments men, we couldn't have done it without the help, suggestions, ideas and inspirations I've got from all of you :D Almost everyone here has contributed something to the build and I appreciate it 8)
By the way, how do you slip the boat?
I saw no rolls at your trailer.
For my GF16 I want to mount some rolls for easy slip and also large planks covered with a piece of carpet to sit good during transport.


By "slip" do you mean launching and retrieving? No need for rollers with a flat bottom boat. We use rollers along the keel for V hulls but not flat. Just 2 large planks covered in carpet. Not sure how you could even support a flat bottom hull on rollers without too much point loading.

To launch, I tie a line a little longer than the boat from the bow to the trailer tongue. I back down the ramp until the boat floats, then I pull the trailer out from under it. The bow line comes tight and I pull the boat up to the shore with the line attached to the trailer, using the truck. It's a 1 man procedure and you don't even get your feet wet.

To retrieve, I just back the trailer down in the water and drive the boat all the way up on it using the motor. I really never use the winch for anything, except sometimes to get the last 6 inches.

You won't need rollers for your GF16.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:20 am
by topwater
Wow what can i say that already wasn't said :!:
won't be long now, time to take her to the dance.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:52 am
by ks8
Opps , moved to bernd1 thread... some additional comments about his trailering question. Your boat still looks great Larry! :D

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:23 pm
by bernd1
Larry,


thanks - you confirmed me what I thought -> the problem of too much point loading.

I will reconstruct my trailer for that - my actual trailer has a load of 1800pounds and has brakes --> enough for the GF :P

By the way, have you bought the engine ?

I hope somebody makes a movie from your first ride with the OD18 - damned pretty boat.

Building time? xxhours or xxdays or xxweeks or xxmonths..... :wink:

I'm looking forward to your first launch !

Image


Bye
Bernd

Image

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks TW, Bernd. I just keep looking at her, it's hard for me to believe I really built something that nice :oops: A lot of the credit goes to Jacques and his design. The lines are just right 8)


Building time? xxhours or xxdays or xxweeks or xxmonths.....
A long damn time :wink: When I started, I logged all the hours, and all the money, but quit with that a long time ago, in case my wife found the records :help:

I started her in April last year, 19 or 20 months ago and at least 2,000 hours.

By comparison, I built my GF16 in 90 days and 200 hours.

No engine yet. One step at a time, still have a few more steps and it's too cold for me to go boating now anyway.
I'm looking forward to your first launch !
So am I :!:

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:45 pm
by mecreature
She is a real eye catcher Larry.

I wonder how she will handle?

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:53 pm
by saltponder
Larry,

Trailer Ramp?

Shouldn't you be launching a purty boat like that at the Too Snooty for Most Yacht Club?

That Baby Rybo's gonna get you drummed out of the Bolden Hall Trailer Ramp Tramp Club. ;)

Gil

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Gil you mean the "Too Snooty for me Yacht Cub"? They threw me out years ago when I won the rich boys Kingfish tournament, about 3 years in a row., and the Landings Spanish tournament 3 years in a row. In a charter boat :lol: They decided that charter captains couldn't fish in their tourneys, unless their name was Judy and sponsored by someone with the last name of Sommers or Demmerie :lol:

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:23 pm
by chicagoross
"Cracker Judy" sounds pretty cool; if you could only find that sponsor... :doh: :D

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Judy's a Cracker. Long story and this ain't the place. Gil understands.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:43 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I want to see a motor. When will we see the motor. We want a motor, we want a motor, we want a motor :wink:

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
We damn sure do :!: Donations accepted. Paypal account lteuton at aol.com :lol:

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:01 am
by Aripeka Angler
:lol: I could loan you Red's motor. That's about all I have to offer. I have lost enough money in the last two months to buy an assload of motors. Another year or two of this current nonsense and I am going to have to sell my toys :cry:

Larry, this is on ebay. They might take an offer. I am going by your area on the 26th and could pick it up in Orlando and drop off at your house. Just a thought.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... &viewitem=

Richard

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:46 am
by Joe H
I just keep looking at her, it's hard for me to believe I really built something that nice A lot of the credit goes to Jacques and his design. The lines are just right
I keep going back and looking at your pictures of her, are you sure your gonna want to get her dirty? :lol:

I'll bet the boy's at Bateau are just as proud.

Nice work, very nice!

Richards E-Bay Yamaha looks like a sweet deal.

Joe

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:55 am
by stickystuff
If you decide to go with the 90 Yammy I have a new alum.prop 19" pitch that you can ahve for free. Has a ding on the exhaust hub where I dropped the dang thing. Never been used.

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:19 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Richard, Ken I appreciate the offers. 8) Might take you up on the prop Ken.

Richard, I hear you. I've lost at least 100 motors in the last 6 months. Oh well, it's got to turn around eventually :doh:

I've been shopping around and can buy that same 90 Yamaha locally for about $5,500. The price has been falling on them, just like everything else because they aren't selling. I'm thinking they will take a dive after the first of the year.

I'd be glad for you to stop for a visit when you're passing by :D

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:58 am
by gk108
In the mean time, I could loan you a fine 1970 6HP Johnson. The prop is like new and it usually starts. :D

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:42 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cracker Larry wrote:Thanks Richard, Ken I appreciate the offers. 8) Might take you up on the prop Ken.

Richard, I hear you. I've lost at least 100 motors in the last 6 months. Oh well, it's got to turn around eventually :doh:

I've been shopping around and can buy that same 90 Yamaha locally for about $5,500. The price has been falling on them, just like everything else because they aren't selling. I'm thinking they will take a dive after the first of the year.

I'd be glad for you to stop for a visit when you're passing by :D
I would jump on that 90 for 5500. That is a damn good deal.

I will call you a couple of days before I head to West Virginia post Christmas. I wouldn't mind taking a fast look at "No Excuse". We go up to WV for a week every year. How far off I-95 are you :doh:

In the mean time, I could loan you a fine 1970 6HP Johnson. The prop is like new and it usually starts.
The old Johnson may need a tuneup if you have to pull on it alot to get it going.....

Richard :D

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:39 pm
by tobolamr
Are you going offshore?

If not, there's a reseller up here who has a used 90 for $4,000. E-mail me if you're interested, and I'll get you the info!

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:40 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for that offer GK 8) You are a fine fellow :lol:

Richard, I'm only 30 minutes off I95. Hope you can stop by.
Are you going offshore?


Certainly so :!: Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it but No Excuse is getting a new outboard, with a warranty and a reasonably convenient dealer.

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:16 pm
by Lower
Boat looks absolutly amazing. So hard to believe that came from a stack of plywood :!: :!:

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:30 am
by donk
She is truely a thing of beauty.

Your build has helped many others build much better boats than they would have built otherwise. You took the time to explain steps in the build that really helped clarify just about every part of the build. I for one am grateful.

don

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Lower, when you stand back and look at her, it is very hard to believe it was made from a stack of plywood. A few people have seen her and still don't believe it yet :lol:

Don, thank you for those words, and you're welcome 8) Most of what I know about stitch and glue I've learned right here from other people who shared their knowledge and experience with me. Without the Internet, and this site it wouldn't be possible for an individual to build a boat like this. You could never accumulate the knowledge in one lifetime 8)

I believe in giving as much as I take, so it's just something I have to do. Payback. Or paying it forward. If we share knowledge we can all build better boats than would be possible working alone in a cave.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:33 pm
by Murry
Very well said Larry.

Some of us are still on the receiving end. :help: :D

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 pm
by cape man
Image

Cave man Boat....sorry...couldn't help myself. 8) [/quote]

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:49 am
by tech_support
Thats the eco friendly boat of the future :)

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:37 pm
by TomW
Larry don't know if you found this site for rodes but thought I would pass it along to you this is for 600' they have others of course. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ACCO-1-4 ... QQtcZphoto here is the page for the others http://stores.ebay.com/Best-Bargainz_An ... QpZ2QQtZkm

Deals seem great compared to other sites so thought I'd let you and your readers know. :D

Tom

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:38 pm
by bernd1
Is this man the driver of Snow White and the seven dwarfs?

I see seven small chairs :wink:

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:39 pm
by ks8
This one is even more eco friendly...

Image

:P

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
Image

I wonder if they steam bent the bow section :doh:

Larry don't know if you found this site for rodes but thought I would pass it along to you this is for 600' they have others of course.
Thanks Tom, but I've got that covered. Aripeka Richard gave me almost a whole spool of 3/4 - 3 strand, 8) and I already had a few hundred feet of 5/8. 800 feet should do it :lol: Got plenty of chain and 2 good anchors.

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:06 pm
by TomW
Sounds like you are definately covered guy. 8) Maybe it will help some of the others that read your thread. :wink:

Tom

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:12 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Image


I wonder if they steam bent the bow section

I was wondering the same thing :doh: That rig looks like a prehistoric low sheer XF-20. :idea: I wonder if Joel and Jacques are planning for a precut kit :lol:

Glad the rope will work out for you. Now if the anchor and chain you have are not heavy enough let me know. I got a nice one left over from my old Sabalo boat :wink:

Richard

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sounds like you are definately covered guy. Maybe it will help some of the others that read your thread.
How's that? I'm covered, but I aint giving them my rode :P
got a nice one left over from my old Sabalo boat


Might be a little heavier than we need :lol: Or are you talking about that pretzel shaped thing that used to be an anchor that was on your dock :doh:

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Working between rain showers, Sam and have got the antennas, horn, wiring and wire chase installed :D

Image

Image

I pondered long over what to use for a cable chase to the top and finally settled on standard outdoor flexible electrical conduit. It is strong, watertight, matches reasonably well, and about 1/10 the price of marine wire chases and much better. This cost about $14 in parts 8)

Image

A little 5200 insures the O-Ring seal :wink:

At the top we mounted an outdoor junction box, and pulled an extra power lead for deck lights. All the wiring is protected by spiral wrap chaff guard.

Image

Not quite finished wiring it all up, it keeps raining every time I plug in a soldering iron or heat gun. I was using a battery charger to test everything, but a downpour killed it dead :(

We've also sealed all the teak, got that done well before it rained :D

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:11 pm
by TomW
Teak looks nice with the oil on it. The top is super with all the hardware on it.

The boat has been bapitised now with fresh water at least. :P

Tom

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:10 pm
by gk108
The flexible conduit works good for that kind of stuff. I had some left over from an optical fiber job I did a few years ago and we used it on the yellow boat rebuild. It had no place to run a conventional chase tube, but we cobbled something together that serves the purpose. :D

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:39 pm
by Fonda@kauai
I like the chase solution, looks clean. After all that hard work might as well take the time to get all the trim and hardware pretty too. Must be hard not to rush though!

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:12 pm
by ks8
I like that even though it was raining off and on, it looks like you've got a fire going in the pit. Good lunch I presume? Cook up... apparently there are some severe storms heading this a here way in the next 24. :)

Wondering where you were planning the radar dome, and if you might be moving the GPS antenna when the radar gets installed? Radar could induce a bit of current in those tiny active pc board antenna foils with the GPS ant right in line with the radar, if the dome is going up there too (and I can't imagine you putting it anywhere else). I'm not a professional radar installer, but just wondering your thoughts on that future install. :)

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:46 pm
by Aripeka Angler
ks8 wrote:
Wondering where you were planning the radar dome, and if you might be moving the GPS antenna when the radar gets installed? Radar could induce a bit of current in those tiny active pc board antenna foils with the GPS ant right in line with the radar, if the dome is going up there too (and I can't imagine you putting it anywhere else). I'm not a professional radar installer, but just wondering your thoughts on that future install. :)
Good question. I have had 3 big boats with radar, gps and loran sensors all mounted 2 feet apart on the tee or hard top. I have not had any problems with any of the units. I have heard there is a certain type of electronic compass that the radar really screws up but don't have any experience with that. My old Sabalo had two depth finders on it and you had to run them on different frequencies so they didn't interfere with one another. Didn't need to run both as they were there only to serve as backups. Did it a few times just for fun. Something tells me Larry already knows all this stuff :wink:

Larry, I chunked that big pretzeled danforth :lol: I gave Craig a nice Fortress anchor that had a small ding on one of the flukes. He took one look at the anchor and I think he thought it was too light. It weighed about 6 lbs. I wanted to make sure he didn't think he ended up with the Rold Gold anchor.

I like the wiring chase. I also think you can tow coal barges with those big ass cleats. I like heavy duty hardware :!:

I will need to get a pay forward fishing trip next year in CR. I got the numbers :wink:

Richard

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:23 pm
by ks8
Glad to hear it can be done Richard, thanks. I'm simply probing the vast experience with the question, plainly admitting the ignorance is mine. :)

As a General class Ham, there is a natural tendency to recognize that such a question is a good one, what with potentially blowing out front ends without a sufficient filter network, etc. With some equipment, on other frequencies, it could actually be expensive to even try the experiment. So I'm assuming then that two feet away is sufficient for most radar and GPS equipment meant for small pleasure craft, since we aren't taking about Aircraft carrier radar on high power, that will cook seagulls out of the sky at 200 yards. I still feel uncomfortable if the GPS is directly in line with the antenna element in the radar, but I'm interested in CL's experience, and appreciate yours too. Always hoping to learn more. :)

I'm thinking, recalling the geometry of most radars, that if it is mounted on the T Top with standard brackets, it will put the Radar element six to eight inches above the line of the GPS element, but still interested to hear the CL experienced response, hoping there are no bloody details of this one time when ....... :lol: :|

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:16 pm
by gk108
I'm betting that the technology has matured to the point that crosstalk and interference has been minimized. :)

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:30 am
by ks8
Don't put too much on that bet Gary. Sure they are better than 40 years ago, but I'm just wondering if you can push it too far. Richard seems to have verified at least a two foot rule of thumb that worked for him, but I don't know how his GPS antenna was positioned in relation to the main lobe of the radar dome or open array.

Sorry Larry. Haven't done one of these in awhile, but I'm sincerely interested. If you don't want this on your thread, let me know and I'll trim or delete it. :)

I was thinking more of just plain overloading the front end of the GPS receiver(s) with the strength of the transmitted radar signal so near by, and not so much confusing it, depending on how you define interference. There's no signal being repeated by anything, so intermod isn't an issue either. I don't know that these units are duplex capable, and may only be transmit on, transmit off, listen on, listen off -- simplex. But that's another bunch of questions I'll ignore. Just concerned about a strong radar RF overpowering the receiver front end(s) of the GPS, that's all. You can't really shield the GPS antenna from nearby RF in general, else it wouldn't receive the GPS signals well either, but you can filter it well. The question is whether the filter is good enough with the GPS antenna only a foot away from the dome, right in the main lobe pattern, without getting overwhelmed. I suppose you could think of that as *interference*. :lol: GPS units also have specs that detail satellite reacquisition time in the event of reception loss. Richard may be loosing reception from his radar overloading the GPS front end, but his GPS recovers enough before the radar swings around again and knocks it out again. Overall, he may not see the loss and reacquisition, and still gets totally practical info. Does it pay to research it further, if it seems to work? Maybe not. But its why I'm asking.

Putting your cell phone, or ipod, or iphone, or the pacemaker that might go in your chest one day, in the microwave might not cook it, unless there is water moisture in there somewhere risky, but all that RF can't be particularly good for those circuits either, simply as a risk management thing! Some of that high energy RF is going to create currents where you don't want them. Try heating up food in a bowl with maybe a thin gold or silver plate ring around it (you'll get a light show), or just throw a fork or a piece of aluminum foil in the microwave (not recommending it, just making the point... please don't toast your microwave oven). Microwaves cook by resonating water molecules (sort of), but there are no water molecules in metal, yet clearly the electrons in metal are getting shoved around at high energies enough to make sparks. I get sparks off the small staple holding the string on the teabag tag! That high RF microwave energy generates high electrical activity on metal.

Radar needs some RF power to do its thing, which is generally why it is not adviseable to mount it where people's heads or any other body parts will be in the line of fire of the operating antenna, quite apart from it getting the best range mounted high and in the clear. I got a nasty RF burn on the end of my finger just from slipping on a tuning wand while tuning a meager little 4 watt tank circuit on only 7 mhz. Radar is much higher freq and higher energy. A quick glance at low end radar units online show them putting out between 2kw and 4kw, S band is 2-4 ghz, X band 8-12 ghz, and to put this in perspective, 2.45 ghz is your microwave oven, at an average of between 500 and 1000 watts! 1000 watts is 1 kw. These radars are putting out twice that, minimum. Whether or not the antenna design itself is adding even more gain, I didn't bother to check! This power and these frequencies can cause deep tissue burns where there is high moisture content, without you feeling it on your skin much at all. Yet there is this plus when wondering about the safety of a radar ... where a microwave can be powered up full and continuous while cooking, the radar is turning on and off and not aiming at the same direction throughout a 360° cycle. And, as RF field strength goes, if the radar antenna assembly has a very narrow vertical pattern, then mounting the GPS 6 inches below the radar main lobe can make all the difference in the world between toasting a GPS receiver (or at least risking it), or having no problem at all. Unless there's a heap'em bigtime high Q narrow band pass on the GPS front end(s), that can handle a 2kw pulse of that sort of RF in the kilowatts power range. As much as we can hope for such filtering in the GPS unit, it is not likely. And I'd rather not have anyone have to definitively find out by toasting one, for, as we know, such things tend to fail just when we need them, like in a situation where the radar may likely be on, and you are making a call on the VHF, in the fog. :?

If any of you are willing to put your GPS in the microwave, even on low power, for one second, you have more money than me, and are more disturbed than me. I don't doubt the first, but the jury is out on the second. 8O

But again, just figured I'd ask the wealth of experience out there, particularly when some spec sheets I have say clearly to keep the GPS (antenna) away from radar (for now more clearly obvious reasons). It could be that the few external GPS antennas I've researched have no filters themselves, but totally rely on the input filter of the GPS unit, which, as third party vendors, the antenna manufacturers naturally have no guaranteeable knowledge of up front, and do not want to become involved in legal entanglements by providing a chart of filter quality for other vendor's GPS units, since they have no control over components or tolerances of any production run of another company's product(s), unless you are dealing with milspecs. If the GPS antenna is an integral receiver also in the same package, there may not be enough real estate in those small packages for a filter to disperse or absorb 2kw or 4 kw microwave pulses, without having a very sure and reliable ground. Larry's install is very clean, and I wonder if he is going to bond his metal and ground connections. Richard may have had no problems at all, but literally by inches, from the main lobe, and because, in this case, the inverse square drop off of RF field strength is sparing his GPS(s), but maybe just barely. I don't know. I don't know the rule of thumb here if there is one.

Bottom line... :lol: :lol: :lol: what is the CL wisdom and experience on the issue? Mount radar maybe so main lobe is a foot above the GPS antenna, at least two feet away from outer edge of radome or open array? Is there a rule of thumb? I've never looked into this before, but again, i'd like to hear your experience too. :)

Maybe its too late at night to get all techie. Sorry 'bout that. Clearly I enjoy hearing other's experiences on a subject like this, myself having no hands-on experience with radar, but more than enough hands-burn with much much lower power RF and frequencies, and think it worth a quick diversion of subject, since it will be probably raining on No Excuse today anyway. :(

Good night, or morning... it's not a dead horse yet Joel, but do you think I've given it a fatal wound? :lol:

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:06 am
by cape man
Larry,

Like the use of the outdoor conduit and junction box for the T top chase. Have seen a lot of T tops where they used the tubes for the top as the chase, but to run everything you are would require a pretty big hole that can't add to the strength of that leg. That grey stuff is bullet proof and like you pointed out, the price is right.

Is that ice tea on the table?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:28 am
by Cracker Larry
Whew, KS you sure are wordy at 4 AM 8O Not sure I'm ready to digest all that just yet :lol:
I will need to get a pay forward fishing trip next year in CR. I got the numbers


I'm in Richard 8)

I like that even though it was raining off and on, it looks like you've got a fire going in the pit. Good lunch I presume?


Good eye, getting ready to smoke some sausages. Wild hog and deer mix. Plus the fire feels good in the damp.
Is that ice tea on the table?
No :P

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:11 am
by ks8
Or ground venison mixed in with some fatty ground beef.... great burgers. :)

The smell is just about making it up here now... with the rain.... and temps for painting... gotta run!

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:16 am
by Cracker Larry
OK, back to that radar, now that I've poured some coffee.
Wondering where you were planning the radar dome, and if you might be moving the GPS antenna when the radar gets installed? Radar could induce a bit of current in those tiny active pc board antenna foils with the GPS ant right in line with the radar, if the dome is going up there too


I'll post the short version :lol: Yes, I'll probably have to move it.

First off it's a very good question with valid points. I don't mind at all your thoughts and questions 8)

Radar is certainly high powered high frequency microwave RF and can do damage to people and things. And cook sausage dogs. Military targeting radar can cook a seagull at 1/2 mile. In fact, military and commercial radars are killing GPS units on other boats from considerable distance. The USCG and the FCC have been doing studies for years. See..

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_n6276393

Lucky for us, so has Garmin, Raytheon, Lowrance, Furuno and Hummingbird. They know that all their equipment has to live in happy harmony on a mast or cabin top :D
I'm betting that the technology has matured to the point that crosstalk and interference has been minimized.


That's a large part of it GK. This GPS head is not just the antenna, it's the full receiver unit. It's completely shielded from both Radar and marine VHF frequencies.

That being said, there are 2 general rules to follow. Radar has a 25 degree vertical beamwidth, which is fairly narrow. The GPS head needs to either be above or below the beam. Obviously, the further the separation of units, the wider the beam, so you usually put them fairly close together.

You can't have the radome blocking the view of the gps antenna to the sky either, so most installations put the GPS above the radar, and in close proximity.

Here is an example of a backstay mount..

Image

And a pole mount

Image

There are many more, but you get the idea. This top is larger than it looks, it's 4X8. My radome will be small, so I might be able to leave the GPS low under the beam without shadowing it. We'll just have to see, but with my luck I'll probably need to move it :lol:

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:54 pm
by ks8
Thank you. Yes, that clarifies. They are kept close so that you can more easily mount the GPS out of the main lobe, likely because the GPS is, in fact, susceptible to getting blasted. The proximity is kept close since the beam is narrower closer to the radome, and so *easier to avoid*, and those mounts put the GPS up out of the shadow of the radome for more reliable GPS signal exposure all round. It leads me to think that there certainly are potential problems if the GPS antenna is in the main lobe pattern, and so you can better get a radiation free area *closer*, in a very strong null, above or below the main lobe. But closer could be a loser if you put it *in* the main lobe, defeating the whole logical reason for mounting it *closer*. I tend to think the GPS lead, surely already shielded, also should go inside that mounting tube to better shield it as it passes through the main lobe, when mounted above the radome, which it clearly does in your photos. Mounting as per those pictures amkes GPS front end sensitivity and filtering more of a non issue, due to the GPS being very precisely in the radar radiation's null.

I know I restated, but you should know me by now. :lol:

Understood... excellent... thank you sir. I will now have a bigger smile as I continue painting in this warm spell that I wish would stay another week or so. And if I recall, you could use the rain, again. :D

-------
edit - Can you believe that rambling. Man... I gotta lay off the caffeine again! Embarassing. :lol:

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:19 pm
by gk108
I guess in this case, mature technology = another funny shaped piece of SS tubing. :D

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:29 pm
by ks8
Yes!

Any news yet on an engine Larry?

And is the S3 in good shape after being wet for a couple of days?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
No engine news, but I did buy a battery today, and a new charger :lol:

The S3 has been in the rain for a week and no problems to report. It seems solidly attached, no blisters or bubbles.

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:17 pm
by ks8
Patience...
Great...
Fantastic...
Excellent...

I think I put those in the proper order.

Now I must return to a concentrated viewing of *Elf*.

I have a suspicion I will be tested in a few days by the nephews and niece. It would be a shameful business if I failed miserably. :|

I'll put in a word with the Big Guy about the engine...

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:09 am
by Cracker Larry
Make sure you give him my Pay Pal account :wink: :lol:

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:05 am
by deedee
looks great larry. great idea with the conduit!! matches nicely :D you are gonna put a 90hp on her, she will have plenty of power. i am debating on the new honda bf50 or an evinrude 60hp. after seeing all these boats with the higher hp's on them i am beginning to think that the new bf50 is toooo small. my od will not have a t top or anything but i will occasionally have four adults and 100 pounds of tackle. just figured i would ask here because you have quite a following on this thread. what a great build!! 8O you gotta be happy when you step back and see her shining.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks David.

Cottontop has a 4S 50 Merc on his, and he says he wished he had a 90. His is lighter than mine, with no gunwales or side decks.

The T-top is very light, probably around 40 pounds. I can easily lift it and put it in the boat by myself, but it will have a lot of wind resistance. I can't see a 50 being enough for this boat.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:17 am
by topwater
Larry what engine are you looking at?
Are you going to go with a four stroke or a new two stroke?
Would like to read youre thought prosses on this and why.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:23 am
by Cracker Larry
I just passed inspection by the DNR and got my HID numbers applied :D

As I was typing my last message I looked outside and a DNR agent was walking around the boat. Sam and I went out to meet him and he went on a few minutes about how nice the boat was. Then he asked me where the homebuilt boat was he came to inspect :doh: I told him that was it and he told me he didn't believe it. No way says he. He was very polite in telling me that I'd have to prove it was really a home built.

So we invited him in and showed him the plans, then I pulled up my build pictures on the computer and he looked through those, and I dug out a bunch of material receipts. He did a thorough inspection and applied the stickers, but he says he still doesn't believe it :lol:

Another step finished, now we can apply for registration 8)

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:27 am
by TomW
Outstanding Larry, that is funny. :lol: Congratulations :!: :D

deedee, I chided Larry about going with a 60 also. :oops: But now have faith in his decision and would not consider anything less than a 75 for the OD and a 90 is fine. Take a look at the brand new Gen 2 Suzuki's, outstanding mileage and an 80 is only $100 more than a 70 at Ed's. They are also light weight at only 341 lbs for the 70-90.

Larry I have upped my HP to a 70 for my C17 after rerunning the numbers. SWMBO was convinced when I showed her the Suzuki numbers.

Topwater 90 Yamaha 2St.

Tom

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:30 am
by topwater
Larry i have a feeling that you are going to run into that
were ever you take youre boat :)
I think you mite want to make up a little scrapbook to
prove it at all the boat ramps 8O

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:45 am
by Cracker Larry
Topwater, I'm planning on a Yamaha 90 2 stroke.

2 main reasons is power to weight ratio and power to $ ratio, and I'm just partial to the power of a 2 stroke. They have more torque and spool up faster.

These boats are light by production standards and are more sensitive to weight than HP.

A 2 stroke Yamaha 90 only weighs 261 pounds. A 2 stroke 70 Yamaha is only 228 pounds. A 4 stroke Merc 50 weighs the same as the 2S Yam 90 at half the HP. A 4 stroke 90 is pushing 400 pounds :help:

Right now I can buy a 2 Stroke Yam 70 for $4,900 and a 90 for $5,500.
A 4 stroke 70 or 90 is almost twice that much money and almost twice the weight.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:56 am
by topwater
I agree on all points, i run 150 hp evinrude 2s now.
Is the yam oil injected? if it is were are you going to put
the injection tank?
Also did you have to talk to a yam dealer to find out what
gauges the engine would support before you installed said gauges?

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, oil injected and I'll use a tank.

And yes, I made sure all gauges were Yahama and Merc. compatable. Teleflex technical literature is very thorough in documenting compatability and wiring. Their web site is great!

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:36 pm
by topwater
Good info, thanks Larry.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:41 pm
by ks8
Congrats on the HID and inspection. Scrapbook sounds like a good idea... good proof especially with Sam in many of the pictures. :)

Of course you did this inspection thing already with the GF, but No Excuse is another thing altogether. Yep, that Sterling Paint on the excellent work, may keep you stuck at the ramp and away from the fish. Cheers!

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:57 pm
by TomW
Hey Larry I'm going to call you for the same thing you called Jacque on let's be realistic on the facts :P . Yea there are some motors out there that cost and weigh like you say, they haven't caught up with the times9M&Y haven't updated there engines in 10 years). Suzuki has just brought out there 2nd Generation motors the 90 weighs 341 pounds only 80lbs more(1/2 a person) more than offset by all that rode your carrying forward. :lol: The cost is only $1000 more, not twice. :wink: It will pay for itself in 2 years at present gas costs with its outstanding fuel mileage(3gph vs 6 gph at cruise). 8) With its 2.59 gear ratio it will more than keep up with the Yammi 2st in acceleration driving a 19 pitch prop.

A 4 stroke does not have to be twice the weight or twice the cost. $800-1000 will do it. And they can turn the revs too.

Tom

PS: I figure if Suzuki's are good enough for Sea World and all there research and other activities they must have something going for them.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
With its 2.59 gear ratio it will more than keep up with the Yammi 2st in acceleration driving a 19 pitch prop.
Tell me how many boats you've proved that theory on.


Sea World has a lot of tow boats hanging around, and we don't plan on fishing in an amusement park :P

Different stroke for different folks. I don't do Suzukis and I don't trust brand new technology. Don't believe everything you read :wink:
they must have something going for them.
Lowest priced 4 stroke outboards on the market. Bayliner sold a lot of boats too :lol:

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:58 pm
by ks8
One slick salesman in corporate sales can accomplish any manner of odd market distribution fluctuations, not limited at all to the technology of outboards. :P

Excuse me... I've got to go do another set of reps of curls with the 4x4 Merc... build up my strength so I can actually mount it soon. :lol:

I put in a word with the Big Guy for your engine CL, no PayPal account. Keep an eye up, in case one falls out of the sky... don't blow it by going for what's behind curtain number two instead. :P

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:09 pm
by cape man
Cape Man if you can build the boat to 800lbs you can load 1400 lbs more in it and still reach low to mid 20's according to my speed calculator(Crouch) with the 40HP. Remember you have a flat bottom that planes fairly easily in the OD18.

Tom
Just had to throw this in...a post from before I had decided on a build, and was asking which boat I could build for my 40hp 4 stroke Yamaha to sit on. Larry, you let me know that you thought a 40 would be "winky" on any boat with 4 adults, but Jacques and Tom W both assured me that if I kept the weight down it would work. We're going to find out soon enough. Wanting more power and needing more power are two completely separate issues, and hopefully I will just find myself at times wanting more power (like watching No Excuse fade across the horizon in front of me).

With all that said, your price for a 90 2S is on par with what I paid two years ago for the 4 stroke, and I would easily put one on the back of this boat if I was shopping. I just already had a motor, and needed a boat to put it on.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:13 pm
by TomW
Craig yep I said low 20's then and I'll stick to it, but you have gone a little heavier so maybe high teens-very low 20's now. Still enough to get you on plain. Larry wants a lot more than that.

Larry:

SeaWorld does a lot more than amuzement parks with a complete research section they require there boats and motors to ba capable offshore also. :P

It is not new technology as it is an incorporation of prior developments from other engines. Particularly the 50 and 300.

So what if they are the lowest priced engine on the market it just shows how low the $ has sunk to the Yen since they are made in Japan. It will reverse someday. Get it while you can. :D

You don't like Suzuki's, I don't like Yammi's either they are old technology and while they may be fine for you they are gas guzzlers both 2 & 4st. and haven't been updated in years. As far as I'm concerned they are living on there name and nothing else, there is not a dealer within 75 miles of me and all these lakes, sort of tells you something.

We'll see as far as keeping up with a 2st vs 4st in acceleration.

You didn't mention gas mileage. For every 100 hours you cruise you loose $2-300 over a 4st. Damn could have paid for that 4st in a year. :P

Well enough on this subject we both have our opinions and I want to remain freinds.

Tom

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:09 pm
by cape man
So what if they are the lowest priced engine on the market it just shows how low the $ has sunk to the Yen since they are made in Japan. It will reverse someday. Get it while you can.
Tom, help me out here...as the dollar drops in value versus the yen, it buys less, not more, of a Japanese produced item. The price of Suziki engines should therefore be higher than an equivelent domestically produced engine, and on par with other Japanese engines (e.g. Honda, Yamaha, Nissan, Tohatsu...). Certainly their price should not go down as the value of the dollar against the yen goes down.

I am not about to enter the 2 stroke versus four stroke debate, or give an opinion on which manufacturer makes a better engine (we recently did this on this site! :roll: ), but basic foreign exchange rules mean we are paying more for less when our currency falls against our trade partners.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
So what if they are the lowest priced engine on the market it just shows how low the $ has sunk to the Yen since they are made in Japan. It will reverse someday. Get it while you can.

Tom, :doh: Yamaha isn't made in Kansas.

I hope an engine discussion won't hurt friendship :oops: It's not that I dislike Suzukis, I don't have enough experience with them to know if I do or not, and you probably don't either.

I've got thousands of commercial hours on yamahas and merc 2 strokes, and a whole lot of confidence in them that didn't come from an advertising brochure. When I'm way offshore by myself I like being confident.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:51 pm
by PastorBob
Are motor dealers feeling the pinch everyone else is? I would imagine there sells are extremely low given the current conditions... I would assume that small dealers are skipping the set prices and unloading inventory.... may be interesting to to make some cash offers and see what happens...

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:11 pm
by ks8
ks8 wrote:I put in a word with the Big Guy for your engine CL, no PayPal account. Keep an eye up, in case one falls out of the sky...
I agree with you PastorBob. Never know how a salesman might be *moved*. The economy tremors are not limited to the USA at all. A whole lotta shaking going on around world markets.

Try some phone calls again CL. Keep an eye up... with a bit of patience. I could definitely get that price down for you, if I bought one today, but I really don't need a 90, and you'd have to wait a month for that drop, and then I'd want that 25% kickback. Humor me and try a few phone calls again. Make an offer. The offer. You know, the one you don't regret about a month later if it drops another thousand.

Show 'em a few pictures of the boat and explain you are showcasing their engine on your custom boat, and really want to promote their engine as one you trust offshore, based on X years of previous experience with them. Grab a handful of the salesreps business cards to hand out to gawkers. Call a regional rep. Maybe he'll give you one. Have fun with it. :D

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:31 pm
by TomW
Larry have no problem with what your saying. I just had to look at a 75 after finding out that the hull weight of the C17 actually weighed 2-250 lbs more than was stated on the study plans per Jacque. Needing a new powerplant went looking and wanting to keep weight down the ETEC75 and Suzuki popped out. The Merc, Yammi and Honda were relegated to second status. Honda was okay for weight but not for cost.

Tom

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
I agree with you PastorBob. Never know how a salesman might be *moved*. The economy tremors are not limited to the USA at all. A whole lotta shaking going on around world markets.
I agree with you both, that's what I said in an earlier post. Prices are falling and I think the best deals are yet to come. For every brand. The same engine is $1,000 cheaper now than they were 6 months ago, and I haven't done any hard dealing yet so I'm sure a better deal could be bargained. I've got a couple of CDs maturing before long that I'm going to need, which has more than a little to do with me waiting a little while :wink: If there was ever a budget for this boat, I blew it some time back :roll:
I agree and if they were up to date and didn't weigh so damn much
Tom, I don't think 261 pounds is very heavy for 90 hp. I'll be glad to let you test that new technology :D I tested it once when OMC first came out with oil injection, went through 4 powerheads in one season. That soured me on being the beta tester. Soured me on OMC too.

Suzuki may be a fine engine, I really haven't heard many bad reports and my personal experience is limited and neutral, I've only made a few trips on Suzuki powered boats. The reason I've even made that many, my brother is a member of a timeshare boat club, called the Freedom Boat Club http://freedomboatclub.com/home They have a fleet of boats in Savannah that he can check out at will. Everything from 15' skiffs to ski boats, deckboats to 25' offshore CC fishing boats. All of them are Suzuki powered and they do run smooth and quiet. I think I've cranked every one I've been on while they were already running :oops: I've never heard a quieter running motor. All you hear is the cooling water splash at idle. Membership in the club includes full SeaTow benefits. I've never had to be towed home in one of them, but he has.
Call a regional rep. Maybe he'll give you one. Have fun with it.


That's an imaginative idea :idea:
Try some phone calls again CL. Keep an eye up... with a bit of patience.
I've got a lot of patience :lol: No worries mon. We're coming up on the nastiest 3 months of weather for the year. I'm not missing any good boating right now around here, it's been plain ugly. I used to go out in ugly, now I don't much. Prefer a warm fire. I'd just be running down a warranty clock right now.

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:44 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Yamahas are hung on more boats around here than any other make. They don't break very often :!: In this area we have a boat dealer about every 2 miles on any major highway. I know several outboard mechanics personally and they all say the same thing, Yamahas are the best, most reliable motors on the market :wink:

When Suzukis first showed up around here they were plagued with corosion problems. They were built light and did not stand up to the saltwater environment. A boat that had one of these motors on it sold for much less than a boat with a Yamaha, Mercury or OMC motor. In short, they were not very good. On second thought, they were terrible.

Well, I guess Suzukis have gotten better. I still would not buy one personally based on the resale value. I would also not buy one because a theme park uses them in water shows. These types of deals sometimes involve trading the motors out regularly as well as advertising or some special promotional deal.
The Merc, Yammi and Honda were relegated to second status.
Tom, I don't think so. Maybe for you but not for me....

Richard :D

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:59 pm
by TomW
Craig when I said the $ dollar has sunk to the Yen I meant exactly what I said. I goofed in my follow up sentence. It takes more $ now to buy a Yen. Ah H, intenational finance can get fun.

Tom

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:05 pm
by gk108
Quote:
Call a regional rep. Maybe he'll give you one. Have fun with it.


That's an imaginative idea
You'd be surprised. Back when Nikon first came out with the high dollar 15mm Nikonos lens, a freelance author friend of mine managed to get a demo loaner from Nikon in exchange for photo credits and some mention in a magazine article or two. The original term of the loan was a year, but he was able to extend it another year. At the end of the second year, he asked again for an extension. They offered to sell it for half price. They didn't have to ask twice. :D

Taking into account what you have in this thread, your boat, and your natural ability to spin a yarn, I'd say go for it. 8)

It sounds like your meeting with the DNR was a satisfying experience. :D

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:13 pm
by TomW
Richard thanks for the input, I unfortunately don't live where there is a dealer every 2 miles. My closest dealers are Merc, ETEC, and Suzuki. The M and S dealers are 1-2 hrs drive. I can't justify the 75 Merc on fuel economy and weight. No Yamaha dealer anywhere close.

I'm not just going on Theme Park recommendations either. You guys seem stuck on that. :lol: These motors are wll thought out, well designed with features others don't have.

Tom

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:46 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Richard thanks for the input, I unfortunately don't live where there is a dealer every 2 miles. My closest dealers are Merc, ETEC, and Suzuki. The M and S dealers are 1-2 hrs drive. I can't justify the 75 Merc on fuel economy and weight. No Yamaha dealer anywhere close.
Tom I am not ragging on you because you don't have many dealers in your area. In areas that have plenty of dealers the mechanics will tell you that Yamahas have the most reliable outboards as I said earlier.
These motors are wll thought out, well designed with features others don't have.
Do the Suzukis have power seats or sun roofs :doh:

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yamahas are hung on more boats around here than any other make. They don't break very often
Exactly. The same is true everywhere in this hemisphere that I'm familiar with. Southeast coast US, Bahamas, Caribbean Islands, Central America both coasts, you can find a dealer and get parts anywhere for Yamaha. Way back in the boonies you see Yamahas and Mercs. I know of only one Suzuki dealer within driving distance, 10 ea. of OMC, Yamaha, Mercury. You can't buy Suzuki parts in the Bahamas, or Belize, or Costa Rica or Mexico without waiting weeks. From what I hear you have to wait weeks in Savannah, GA too. Yamaha parts you can get. Older technology means more parts and more people who know how to fix them. They've worked the bugs out.
Richard thanks for the input, I unfortunately don't live where there is a dealer every 2 miles.
No offense meant at all Tom, but that's what we're saying. We do. They are there for a reason. Richard and I both run boats once or twice a week or more in salt water. So do all our neighbors and we've been doing it a very long time. We know what works in a bad environment. You and your neighbors live in the Smoky Mountains, a long way from the salt. If you were to hang that Suzuki in a hoist over salt water year around, just like Richard has 2 of his boats hanging right now, it would fall off the transom from corrosion before the Yamaha's paint started to pickle. That's real life observation, not advertising.

But since you live where you do and it won't be in salt water 24/7 the Suzuki will suit just fine. Given the choices you have, I'd pick a Mercury even if it's heavy.
well designed with features others don't have
Such as?

Please take this all in good fun conversation, as it is meant to be, and in no way personal :D

BTW, the best ATV I've ever owned was a Suzuki King Quad. That is one bad SOB :!:

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:34 pm
by cape man
Do the Suzukis have power seats or sun roofs
Larry, save us! Put a motor on that thing! I recommend a Yamadog 90 2 stroke :D :D

By the way...anyone tell you how good she looks?

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:52 pm
by cedarock
I think that outboard choices are regional, somewhat. I grew up thinking that Mercury was inferior to Johnson. And even now in the salty north east NC, you see very few Mercs and I would say, based on my experience that yamaha is more popular with john/even and susuki being about even.

Go a little south to the Morehead/Topsail area and all you see is Suzuki hanging from boat houses everywhere. Probably 75 percent...with a few mercs and a few more yamaha, john/evenrude speckled in. I have a friend, who is responsible for two pedestrian ferries in the salt waters of that area. They run up the hours and have used Suzuki four strokes and etecs since he has been there. Based on our conversation, he is very fond of the Suzuki 4s, not that he is opposed to the etecs. However, those engines never live a long life because of the daily use.

I started out a johnson fan, converted to yamaha in the early 90's. I now have two small Suzuki's and both have been great so far. I guess it comes down to what you feel comfortable with but I know that my 2 stroke days are over unless they quit making the 4 stroke!

I personally think that there is not a lot of difference between them all except for weight and personal preference. Experiences like mine when a friends merc would not crank on a cold duck hunting morning is what stays in the back of people's mind. That could happen with any brand!

I am looking forward to seeing her underway with whatever the mount. :D

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:57 am
by TomW
No it's all in good fun and I know it. :D I grew up on Johnson/Evinrudes in the 6-70's when they were the motor to have and Merc's were junk and Yammi's weren't around I don't think at least not in the upper mid-west.

Things change over time and if I was going to be running offshore everyday I would probably look harder at a Yammi 75 although I doubt it Yammi has no more experience in 4St's than Suzuki and I can't justify Yammi's poor mileage. I may still as I'm a year away from that Yammi may come out with new technology by then also. :D

Thanks for your input guys I appreciate it and will take it to heart in the final decision. If I was going 2st like you two I would definately go Yammi. 8) :wink:

Tom

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:46 am
by cape man
Larry,

I'll make you a deal on a 1958 2hp British Seagull. It's a two stroke (takes a 10:1 mix). Cranks on the second pull every time. Burns about 1/2 gallon per hour. 8) 8)

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:13 am
by saltponder
20 years ago Yammies had saltwater corrosion problems in the shifter linkage that ran down the shaft. It was made from non-corrosive metal and would eventually give problems in one of their motor lines. They responded and solved the problem with stainless. The best advice on choosing a motor was given to me by a Keys guide who chose a motor based upon dealer service reliability. Even the best need work on occasion and if the motor is not backed up by a good mechanic with readily available parts, the motor is not for you.
Gil

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:02 am
by Cracker Larry
Topwater, see what you started :lol:

Craig, I love those old Seagulls. Now those were good outboards, too bad they don't make a 90 :lol: It would be a noisy scoundrel but as dependable as Sam.

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:56 am
by TomW
Craig if we could all power our boats by those old Seagulls. They were as dependable as anything. :D Oh dang Larry now someone will step in and say they had trouble with them now that we agree on a motor. :lol:

Tom

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:42 pm
by BassMunn
Can I chime in.......PLEASE? :D

In South Africa, up until about 8 years ago Yamaha had about an 80% grip on our market (OK it's a small market).
In the offshore market they had about an 98% hold, if it was going out to sea it had to have a Yammie. Mercury's were known as Black Sea Anchors (the really old rounder split cowling).
But things have changed a lot lately, Suzuki now have a 21% market share, Yamaha 40%, Mercury 30%, Evinrude about 6% and then Honda fighting for the scraps.

I have owned 4 Yamaha's and then bought my first Mercury.
I owned a 90hp 2st Yammie (current model) and then the Merc 90hp 2st (current carb model) and I have to say that the Merc knocked the spots off the Yammie. Although they are both 90hp, the Merc having an extra 300cc displacement has way more torque and is a bit lighter on fuel as well.
I never really had any problems with any of my motors, but they were always pretty new and serviced well.
Our offshore boats get pounded pretty hard because we surf launch and when we beach we hit the beach at WOT or close to it. Engines with trim and tilt have to have special "kick-up" kits installed to the trim systems so that we don't leave our transoms behind 8O
For my PH16 I am seriously considering a Suzuki or an ETEC. Evinrude is trying to get into our market pretty hard so I can pick an ETEC 90 cheaper than a Yammie 2s 90, or I can pick up a 115 ETEC with stainless prop for $500 more than the Yammie 90. The Suzuki DF90 is about $400 more than the 115 ETEC.

OK I'll shut up now :roll:

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:52 pm
by topwater
Sorry Larry, thats what i get for pondering 8O

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:50 pm
by gk108
TomW wrote:Oh dang Larry now someone will step in and say they had trouble with them now that we agree on a motor. :lol:

Tom
That would be me. :D
It's hard to find carb parts for one in Key West.

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:34 pm
by Aripeka Angler
BassMunn wrote:Can I chime in.......PLEASE
Yes sir, by all means :wink:
I have owned 4 Yamaha's and then bought my first Mercury. I owned a 90hp 2st Yammie (current model) and then the Merc 90hp 2st (current carb model) and I have to say that the Merc knocked the spots off the Yammie. Although they are both 90hp, the Merc having an extra 300cc displacement has way more torque and is a bit lighter on fuel as well.
The Mercury is too heavy for his boat IMHO. You can put a nice dress on a pig, but it is still a pig. If I was going the heavy route I would put on a four stroke. At a beefy 375 lbs. the Mercury is heftiest outboard in the class. It is actually heavier than the Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha four strokes.
I never really had any problems with any of my motors, but they were always pretty new and serviced well.
I absolutely agree. We also have state mandated E-10 gasoline in Florida. It is very important to run the engines as much as possible as the fuel breaks down very quickly in an unused boat.

For my PH16 I am seriously considering a Suzuki or an ETEC.
If draft is not a problem, I think they would be great choices. That said, I bought a Hewes 16 foot flats boat about two years ago. The boat had a 70 two stroke Yamaha. I told the salesman I wanted a four stroke 90. He tried to talk me out of the swap but I didn't listen to him :? I increased the draft by 4 inches at the stern. I now own a very expensive flats boat that will not go where I need to go. That is the reason I built the XF-20 last year.
OK I'll shut up now
Me too Shannon...

Richard

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:54 am
by BassMunn
Richard you are thinking about the Optimax, I'm refering to the older Carb version like Stickystuff had on Sport 'n Woody, that motor weighes 304lbs, but The Yammie still weighes 270lbs, but I'm not sure if it has been taken off the market over there. They are still available here, but not sure for how much longer.

Larry sorry if this seems like a thread hijack :oops:
I'll repost some answers and questions to Richard in my thread, I would like to discuss motors further.

IMHO you wouldn't be making a mistake buying the 90 Yammie, It's like good old faithful. They really do run forever without much fuss. :wink:

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:41 am
by Cracker Larry
No hijack, carry on 8)

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:51 am
by colonialc19
I own a 90hp 2stroke Yami, bought new in '02, I've run it hard on a small bass boat,
only 1 problem, the oil tank/resevoir cracked at the mounting bolts last summer.

Very happy with the motor :)

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:28 am
by TomW
Larry on the question of Ed's and warranty work I would not worry about it. Merc covers warranty work world wide so your local dealer will do it for you. As far as service get in touch with your local guy since you bought your 25 there and see if you can get him to order a motor from Merc or if he can't would there be a problem if you brought him a 90 if he can't get it, if he would do the rigging, etc.

Colonial said over in BussMunn's page that he had not heard good things about Ed's on warranty work or rigging and I can believe it. I think they are just a big salesyard and they keep there prices low by selling lots of engines and boats and getting quantity discounts from the manufacturers.

That's my two cents and thoughts on the issue. Have fun pondering what to do. :D

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:29 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the feedback. I'd really rather do the rigging myself, and Virginia is a long way to pull the boat. I have more confidence in my work than an indifferent shop.

My 25 Merc came from Bass Pro Shops and they tell me they can't get the 2 strokes anymore. I guess Ed's has had these for a long while.

Oh well, I'll work something out eventually. The weather sucks anyway. :|

I did get the battery permanently installed this weekend, along with the wiring and master cut off switch. We tested all the circuits, lights, pumps, all good. And finally got the GPS/radio interface working properly and the MMSI number programmed in so we're still making progress. Wow this hailer is loud! Don't want to pull the trigger on that thing with Mrs. Cracker in the bow :help:

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:48 am
by TomW
There is only one way to find out how old the motors at Ed's are. Use there e-mail function from there site and ask. Last time I used it I got an answer back the next day. You can also run just your truck up there and pick it up and then just rig it yourself.

Good work on the electronics. I wondered about the hailer/horn when I saw it on the T-top, big honkin' mother you have there.

I got the Mirror flipped Sat, on to the the final finishing.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
I wondered about the hailer/horn when I saw it on the T-top, big honkin' mother you have there.
It's the smallest one I could find anywhere :oops: it's only 6" and rated for 15 watts. The hailer is 25 watts so I can't really turn it up without blowing it, not that I think I'd ever need to 8O Minimum volume is about all I can stand. This baby will get the bridge to open, and the yelp will wake the dead :lol:

The next horn size up is a 40 watt and it's a seriously big honkin mother, looks like it belongs in a stadium or warehouse.

Now if you don't get that Mirror finished up soon and get started on the big boat, there will be a whole new generation of motors out :P Heck, there might even be new brands out by then. Toyota outboards may be in their 3rd production year :lol: So don't be rushing me :wink:

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:30 pm
by ks8
Yep. Technology... can't keep up with it anymore. I don't know about fuel economy, but there are always options. This one could tend to ruin your night vision, and it is interesting that they have no running lights...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-08Iu5c ... re=related

Might spook the fish too... but other boaters, at night, would have very little excuse for not seeing you coming their way. :?


But if you try the new stuff, it helps to have a self-bailing cockpit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSufUWim ... re=related

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
Clearly the results of too much money and alcohol :lol:

These guys really need self bailing cockpits too. This is what our inlet bars look like in medium rough weather

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihzaDoG1JfY&NR=1

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:26 pm
by TomW
Nope not rushing you at all. :lol: The Mirror is about to be finished. Had somethings to take care of today and then its crank up the heaters and go. SWMBO birthday is the 31st so that is the absolutely last day for finishing. She still isn't sure how she wants the inside finished the clear wood it is now or painted.

Tom

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
With 16 days to go she probably should make a decision soon :lol:

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:16 pm
by cape man
Hey Cracker! Hope the holidays are treating you sweetly. Got a nice Garmin 420s which will interface with a Vhf. Which Uniden model did you get?

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:43 am
by Cracker Larry
No complaints Craig, hope all is well with you and yours. Didn't find a Yamaha under the tree, but didn't expect to either :lol:

The Garmin 420 is a nice unit. The Freedom Boat Club that my brother is a member of uses those on all their boats in the Savannah fleet. Good stuff. You'll love it 8)

My radio is a Uniden 525. It seems to be a quality unit with a zillion features.

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:26 am
by cape man
I was looking at the Uniden Oceanus. Seems to have most of the functions as the 525 except the hailer and fog horns, including the DSC interface with the GPS. Will do some more research to see if saving the $50+/- is worth it. On the GPS does your brother's club have the BlueChart G2 installed in their Garmins? Looks like a very neat addition giving you a 3D view of topography above and below the water, and detailed satelite photos of ports and hazards. The SD cards are ~$400 to add a region like the Gulf (Brownsville to Plantation Key). Will post some pics later today if I get time on my thread. Have made some progress...

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:50 am
by Cracker Larry
On the GPS does your brother's club have the BlueChart G2 installed in their Garmins
No, they just have the base chart that comes with the unit, it's a decent chart, but without a lot of detail. Nothing like the BlueChart. That's an expensive upgrade, but probably worth it. I think that is Garmin proprietary software which is why it's so expensive.

The Hummingbird has a similar base chart built in, called Unimap. It does 3D views, but also limited in detail. It has a MMC card slot for Navionics Gold or Hotmaps upgrade. They are only about $200 for the card, I found some on Ebay for $179. The Navionics is amazing cartography also, but I don't think the Garmin can use it.

Modern electronics are really cool 8)

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:32 am
by cape man
Modern electronics are really cool
I still remember when my Dad bought a color TV! It's close to magic what we are doing today.

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:26 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, I was about 12 when we got our first one :lol:

I've completed about all the minor details I can, just need an engine now :doh: We've finished up the battery installation, wiring and cutoff switch. Everything is wired to the switch except the auto bilge pump. I prewired for 2 batteries, but just have 1 for now. May just use 1, not sure yet.

Image

And we finished up the sump, with transducer, bilge pump, float switch, bait well pick up, sea cock, bait pump and plumbing.

Image

And the bait well is finished, spray bar installed. It is angled to direct water in a circular fashion around the tank and has a flow control valve. With a 500 gallon pump and a 10 gallon tank, we'll probably have too much water :doh:

Image

The spray bar is sort of cheesy. I'll probably build another one.

So that's about it. Now I'm painting the house :(

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:47 am
by jgroves
Looks good! I really like your thru-hull transducer. That sucker is on there!

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:26 pm
by topwater
Larry nice and neat install as usual. What did you do to makesure
there was no air space between the transducer and bottom glass?

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:22 pm
by cape man
Larry,

Where's the bottom of your baitwell pump (the impellor) in relation to the waterline? If it is above, you will probably have a problem getting water to it at rest as they are typically not self priming. I tested mine with a bucket of water before the install to confirm my concern. I think we both used the same pickup, which has a threaded thru-hull that is longer than necessary. Can't tell from the picture, but with the seacock you may be above the waterline with the working part of that pump. It'll work while underway due to the scoop.
[/img]

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:04 pm
by nort
That spray bar does look rather cheddery or maybe its colby.

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think we both used the same pickup, which has a threaded thru-hull that is longer than necessary.
Yes, we did and it was. I cut off the extra thread so the seacock would screw almost flush to the nut. Then cut off the extra thread on the pump inlet so it flushed to the seacock. No extra thread on it and the impellor is just at the waterline (as if I know where that is :doh: ) You are right though it's not a self priming pump.

Underway, the scoop will pick up so much water that you won't even need the pump.
That spray bar does look rather cheddery or maybe its colby.
OK, that confirms it. It's out of there. I needed some boat work to do anyway :lol:

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:35 pm
by chicagoross
Beautiful work, Larry! Your pump compartment looks cleaner than any (so-called) professional installation I've ever seen. Won't it be nice, a few years down the line, to be able to service/replace items without shredding your knuckles for a change? :D Guess you have to build them for your own personal use before concerns like that are taken seriously...Your boat will be a dream to work on when it comes to that - course with your care in fitting out it will likely go a lot longer than usual before you have to worry about anything. Great job!

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:03 pm
by cape man
Now that you are dead set on getting rid of the spray bar, I'm throwing in my $0.02...
With a 500 gallon pump and a 10 gallon tank, we'll probably have too much water
If it was a ten gallon aquarium with a few pet fish, might be true, but with bait, the way you can have too much water is when it can't get out fast enough. Put a bigger drain in if you have to (or install a second), get rid of that spray bar and don't restrict the flow. You can get your circular flow by just letting it blast in where you have it. We calculate carrying capacity in tanks by GPM (or some other flow rate) with "the more, the better". Those spray bars do help aeration if you are recirculating water in the tank, but with a raw water pickup just let 'er rip.

Your 500 gph pump won't actually do that number against a 1' head and the head loss in the hose and fittings (especially a spray bar), so let's say you get 480... that gives you 8 gpm, so the 10 gallon tank turns over every 1.2 minutes. Herring Heaven :lol: Also, those little chicken dolfin need lots of water while we're chasing marlin 8)

Leave the valve in if you don't have enough drain and don't want to enlarge it/add another, and just adjust it for the max you can get in there and not have it over flow.

IMHO :wink:

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:05 pm
by colonialc19
Larry, glad you posted about your livewell, and certainly happy for the constructive criticism. My baitwell will be similar, and this is helping with my planing :) .

Daniel

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:10 pm
by gk108
I see the extra hot wire. Is it for the bilge pump? How/where is the bilge pump grounded?

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Ross, I appreciate it.
Put a bigger drain in if you have to (or install a second), get rid of that spray bar
I think you're exactly right for the most part, it doesn't need a spray bar very often. Only in inshore creeks in the summer when the water is low on oxygen and we're using shrimp. Bait fish would do better with a strong circular flow. But no problem making it removable so we can let her rip otherwise.

The drain is almost twice the inlet size, it should keep up with the pump, I think :?:
I see the extra hot wire. Is it for the bilge pump? How/where is the bilge pump grounded?
Gary, yes the extra hot wire is to the bilge pump float switch. The pump has 2 hot wires, the other fused and manually switched at the console. It is grounded to the ground buss in the console.

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:13 pm
by Jason S
Probably one of the most informative learnign experiences I have read on here as to what it really takes to build a boat.

Great boat. It looks awsome and I can only hope to think that for years of use beyond the fact it is a great looking well built boat but there has to be some satisfaction and thrill knowing you built it. Have trust in it because everything was done by you. Bravo man.

Hate to say it but even better thread. Thank you for your efforts to seriously cronicalt your adventure. Took me about 3 days to read from start to finish in chuncks.


So now to business. I hope you don;'t mind my asking but roughly what do you think you have into it money wise. If you don't answer I understand and it is cool I will edit it out if you reply without and answer to it. Also I know you gave a figure about but what do you think your completed motor hung man hours will be to build to this quality?

Heres just one more question to ask. I know most completed projects I have done I look back and reflect about what I wish I had done differently. Do you have any regrets or wish you had done anything markedly different.

Lastly thanks again for the pleasure of being able to watch the build of a fine machine and the great thread. It does take a lot of time and effort to document this build. I can't imagine the number of hours alone for that with picture taking, downloading to computer, editing, typing threads, reply and answering dumb questions like mine etc.....

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Jason.
I hope you don;'t mind my asking but roughly what do you think you have into it money wise.
I don't mind, but I'm not really sure. I quit counting a while back :lol: I'd guess about 8K, maybe 10K. Thats electronics, trailer, everything. Sorry, but I'm not sure exactly.
Do you have any regrets or wish you had done anything markedly different.
Not much, but I wish I had run my fuel fill line behind the forward bulkhead to hide it. I wish I'd hired someone else to sand it :lol: My arms still aren't right.

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:40 am
by Dog Fish
Jason S, that was a good post. Larry did a great job from building , pics, and posts as you said. Larry is the man 8)

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:05 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry is the man
Thanks DF, but no, I'm not the man, I just blunder along :lol: My main qualification is pure stubborn :wink:

and answering dumb questions like mine etc
There are no dumb questions when it comes to what you don't know. Dumb is not asking questions :wink: I've asked a thousand of them. That's the great thing about this site, no matter the question someone knows the answer and is willing to help.
Thanks again for you complimentary post Jason.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:43 am
by Fonda@kauai
Went through and re-read your thread tonight CL. Now I remember where I got most of my ideas :D The crackerbuilt No Excuse is a gem, you should be really proud. Now when is the market gonna recover :doh: She needs some ponies 8) I pulled out a chunk to build just before the fit hit the shan, but didn't pull any out for my motor :| Can't win em all.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:58 am
by Jason S
Cracker Larry wrote:Thank you Jason.
I hope you don;'t mind my asking but roughly what do you think you have into it money wise.
I don't mind, but I'm not really sure. I quit counting a while back :lol: I'd guess about 8K, maybe 10K. Thats electronics, trailer, everything. Sorry, but I'm not sure exactly.
Do you have any regrets or wish you had done anything markedly different.
Not much, but I wish I had run my fuel fill line behind the forward bulkhead to hide it. I wish I'd hired someone else to sand it :lol: My arms still aren't right.
That was about roughly what I was figuring in the nieborhood. Was just wondering due to seeing a lot of build on here where people really scrimp. The quality of your build shows. Coming from a pretty good woodworker myself. I know it seems a lot can do it really on the cheap but I was figureing you had about 5-6 in the just hull and fitting it discounting electronics and trailer.

I hear you on the sanding. Couple year ago in an effort to better myself as a woodworker I decided to rough lumber buuild a 34X92 inch workbench and all stock demensions and finishing were all hand tool work. Figured I would learn a lot about myself the way a craftsman taught his journeymen. Building a bench back in those days along with building your tools was part of learning the trade. After about 2-3 months of using a scrub and jack I was doing a lot of staring at my jointer and planer. Had two weeks in straitening and leveling that bench top prior to scraping and sanding. Boy my dogs loved the chips though.

I find myself grabbing the planes for quick crap now though so it is a love hate. Had you not sanded as much you probably would have more regrets.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:29 am
by Cracker Larry
The crackerbuilt No Excuse is a gem, you should be really proud.
Thank you very much, I am proud of her :!: It's the nicest thing I've ever built. It's also the largest and longest project I've ever tackled. I built my house in less time than it took to build that boat 8O
Now when is the market gonna recover
Good question. Obama promised he would fix it, but I just saw him on the news and now he's telling us that maybe he can't keep his campaign promises. Imagine that :roll: I've got a couple of CDs maturing soon, so it won't be long :lol:
Was just wondering due to seeing a lot of build on here where people really scrimp
I didn't scrimp on anything. She is as good as she can be. It just doesn't make sense to me to spend 2,000 hours of labor and use low quality materials. Thinking more carefully, I'm sure there is 10K in her.
I find myself grabbing the planes for quick crap now though so it is a love hate.
I enjoy using a plane, it's my favorite wood butcher tool. But you're right about the sanding, it really paid off. I'd hate to look at her now and wish I had sanded more.

The pain wears off, but the boat lasts on. I'm ready to start another one now, as soon as I get caught up on all the house repairs I've been neglecting 8)

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:38 am
by gk108
I don't know how you can stand the waiting time for your motor. 8)

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:47 am
by Biker B.O.B.
gk108 wrote:I don't know how you can stand the waiting time for your motor. 8)
I'm with you Gary. But he has other boats, and it's been something like 18 months so far. I'd mount whatever motor I had on hand and then regret it (holes in the transom to fill) once I got the cash for the correct motor.

My hat's off to you Larry. Not only for your work, but for your dedication to doing everything right and your patience to see it done right. Will those CDs mature in time to have "No Excuse" at the Crystal River meet? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see it there.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:35 am
by Cracker Larry
Will those CDs mature in time to have "No Excuse" at the Crystal River meet
Oh yeah, only a few weeks to go. I thought about putting on another motor, but like you said, I'd have holes and regrets.

There was a time once when I'd just go down and sign my name and leave with a new motor, but we don't do debt anymore. I wait until I can comfortably pay cash or I do without. In this economy, staying debt free gives me a lot more freedom and keeps me from having to work a 9-5. I've been patient this long, I can go a little more :lol:

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:41 pm
by BassMunn
Cracker Larry wrote:
Will those CDs mature in time to have "No Excuse" at the Crystal River meet
Oh yeah, only a few weeks to go. I thought about putting on another motor, but like you said, I'd have holes and regrets.

There was a time once when I'd just go down and sign my name and leave with a new motor, but we don't do debt anymore. I wait until I can comfortably pay cash or I do without. In this economy, staying debt free gives me a lot more freedom and keeps me from having to work a 9-5. I've been patient this long, I can go a little more :lol:
Yip have to agree with you here, I learnt once the hard way and now only buy what I can pay for cash.

Just as a sidenote, any outboard larger than your tiller arm models that have the clamps built in use the same mounting holes.
I checked this with Hydro Dynamics and Pitstop Marine and they both told me that all outboard mounting holes were standardised during the mid 80's, I specifically asked about 90 and 115hp motors, Yamaha, Suzuki, Mercury and Evinrude, 2 & 4 stroke - all the same mounting holes.

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:03 am
by deedee
alright where are the pictures and posts??? i'm going into the dt's or withdrawls here!! :D can't wait to see the finished product ... and up on plane!!

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:23 pm
by WobblyLegs
Hey, Larry - two whole weeks without a post? You still waiting for a motor?

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:35 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, still waiting on a motor, thanks. It looks like I'm about 2 weeks away at this point :D

I've been doing some minor detail work but not much worth mentioning. I had a flaring tool for 1 1/4 drains on back order for 4 months, finally got it in and finished up the cockpit and motorwell drains. Also got my state registration numbers in the mail and ordered the graphics to match the name.

Been catching up on honey do's on the house, rebuilt and painted porch railings, partially rebuilt a deck, working on taxes and racing to China.

It won't be long now. Weather still sucks so it doesn't really matter yet.

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:42 pm
by Cracker Larry
Breaking news :!: I just finalyzed a motor purchase and will pick it up the firstof next week :D

After much pondering, I decided to scale down a little in HP, and bought a new 70 Yamaha 2 stroke, mainly because the dealer was overstocked and gave me a deal I couldn't refuse. But also thinking it will be plenty fast enough and the less weight on the transom the better for offshore waters. If it will run anything over 30 it will be fast enough and a flat bottom boat in sloppy water can't run that fast anyway. It won't be pulling nets and we don't ski much, so it should be adequate. I got them to include a 20' wiring harness and a stainless prop. All for just under 5K.

The dealership also loaned me a very nice transom drilling jig for the weekend, so I'll get the transom holes drilled, oversized, filled and redrilled (you know the drill) and ready for bolting on. Then I'm going to take the jig to my aluminum welding neighbor and get him to duplicate it, so we'll have one too :wink:

I'm going to do all the rigging myself. The dealer is just going to set the engine and put in the bolts, so he can tell Yamaha he installed it. They are very flexible right now, happy to make a sale I think :doh:

So hopefully will be splashing her in a week or 2 depending on how the rigging goes :?

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:05 pm
by tech_support
great news, cant wait to see launch pictures.

:!:

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:32 pm
by TomW
That's great Larry! Rigging and wiring should not be a problem for ya! :help: :lol: :P

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:47 pm
by Dog Fish
Very cool Larry, I can't wait to see some pics of her in the water and maybe underway. I will also be interested to performance results of that Yam two smoke 70. That is the motor I have picked out to put on my XF20. Best of luck with both boat & motor Larry, and hope you get all the results you are looking for.

Brian :)

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:01 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, I think you are going to get better than 37 MPH at DWL. That will definitely be faster than you can use it when you go out over 20 miles in most cases. No matter, with the way you built it it will be able to stand more rough water than you can. LOL


Can't wait to see pictures with it hauling through the water,
H :lol:

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:45 pm
by BassMunn
Great stuff Larry! Can't wait to see some more pics (lots of them :D )

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall. It's been a long time coming, 2 years in March. Not as long as KS and Tom :P but a long time anyway. Sam's got gray in the face building her, he's ready for a ride.
I will also be interested to performance results of that Yam two smoke 70. That is the motor I have picked out to put on my XF20
Me too. I think it will be pretty good. Richard is running the same motor on his XF20 and it does well. My boat can't be as heavy as that.
Larry, I think you are going to get better than 37 MPH at DWL.
My rough calcs put it about 42. Anything over 35 will be more than adequate and a 30 mph cruise speed about perfect. Water conditions will keep it below that most of the time.
with the way you built it it will be able to stand more rough water than you can. LOL
I'll be happy if we are mutually compatable :lol:

Will post pictures as we progress.

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:17 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Congrats on the iron spinnaker Larry, I know that's a huge step. Rigging will be a breeze. Sam will see to it.

Crackers Motor

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:04 pm
by cottontop
Way to go Larry. I know you've waited for this day for some time. Looking forward to seeing her. We will be at the meet, but for only the BBQ on Saturday and looking at the builds. Like everyone else, I'm truly looking forward to seeing your handywork. Have a good weekend. Cottontop

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:21 pm
by ks8
Excellent on the gerbil wheel! :D

Enjoy drilling filling drilling sealing. We're looking forward to those pictures. You think next weekend? What's Sam say? :D

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:40 pm
by Fonda@kauai
Au'ryte :D

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:19 am
by Dougster
Good news for sure. It's nice the dealer will set it and let you rig it. I get cheerful thinkin' about you and Sam singin' through a chop, fish in the box, sun gettin' low.

Got hisself in a good mood Dougster

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:06 pm
by topwater
Cant wait to see the pic's of the install and on the water.
very good idea for the aluminum jig :)

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:25 pm
by ks8
busy busy ... weather at last!

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks everyone :D

A warm and beautiful day today for a nice change. Sam and I got some good progress made towards motor mounting.

The drilling jig is a dream, you can't go wrong with this. Just find your centers, clamp it on and drill. Perfect alignment 8)

Image

After I drilled the holes to 1/2", I pulled off the aluminum plate and redrilled the holes in the transom to 1".

Image

Then we filled the holes with epoxy thickened with wood flour, silica and chopped glass. Duct tape on the outside, fill from the inside. Then duct tape over the inside. It was tight working in the lower motorwell. We used a zip-loc back with the corver cut out to squeeze the goo in the holes.

Image

Letting that cure until tomorrow, then reinstall the transom plate and jig, and drill it to final size.

While that was going on I also got the motorwell cable boot finished up, it too was drilled, filled and redrilled. I still may make a change here, not quite sure yet how this is going to work out :doh:

Image

And then we took care of the legalities, sorta. I'm not real satisfied with these registration numbers, 3 of the digits are smaller than the rest and don't quite meet the 3" requirement. I think I'm going to fuss (politely of course) with them on Monday and get them to re-do the graphics :? I think all the characters should be the same size.

Image

What do yall think, should I fuss and re-do, or just say screw it and see if the CG complains?

That's it for today. Cocktail hour 8)

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:39 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, glad to hear you have a motor on the way. The 70 should be big enough. That jig looks pretty cool for drilling the transom :wink:

The letters came out a little different in size due to the font. Just as an example look at the frutiger linotype in Microsoft word. Sandi is a guru on these matters and explained it to me. I have no clue :doh: I think that a graphics company should have that figured out though.

I will test the sensor next weekend when I am at the boat house. Gotta have a loran head to plug it into to do a test. I doubt they go bad due to non use.

Good luck on the rigging and launch...

Richard

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:46 pm
by chicagoross
Sam sure has a big grin :D

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:47 pm
by captj13
I like them the way they are! I think its a nice touch that they are different sizes ..... you did a great job of getting em on nice and straight. I would be really surprised if CG took a ruler to them.

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:58 pm
by captj13
........ beautiful job on the boat ! Best of luck with her!

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:06 pm
by Dog Fish
If it was me I think all the same size would look best. Not that they look bad though. Just me! Ya got ta love using gigs, makes life lots easier. I saw where you said you were having a guy weld ya one up. Very cool and looking good Larry. :)

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:38 pm
by cape man
I'd fix the sizes.
What do yall think, should I fuss and re-do, or just say screw it and see if the CG complains?
Maybe not the CG, but a couple years ago I had a Nat'l Wildlife Refuge officer give me one heck of a hard time because I didn't have the proper space between the numbers. Nothing else was out of whack (everyone was licensed, fish were all legal, safety gear all in order,...), but he wasted almost a half hour of my life and almost made me say ugly things. That was day 2 of a 3 day trip, 30 miles from any town, and he stopped me again the next day wanting to know why I hadn't fixed the problem. No need to give an overzealous person with a badge and gun a reason to stop you.

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:30 pm
by Murry
What do yall think, should I fuss and re-do, or just say screw it and see if the CG complains?
I say fuss and re-do Larry. You would be happier with the numbers and letters all being the same size. It looks like the three smaller numbers need to be larger because the '5' matches the letters O.K.

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:48 pm
by ks8
If you go for the redo on the regi numbers ... hmmm... think at least three inches, *before* the drop shadow effect (what is the exact legal meaning of *block letters*? :help: ).

Indiana Jones (?) isn't designed to be perfectly equal in height. You may loose too much of a feel of the font if you demand they all be exactly the same. But the smallest character should be 3, before the drop shadow, if you bother with a redo. Ask for a few PDFs of different variations, or try them yourself, and send them the final .eps or PDF file. Have you got software to try that?

I mean, after coming this far, if you are going to redo, go all the way and try variations first, print out sections, tape 'em together and try it in position. Hopefully what is on there will do until the redo is finalized.

Last thought. If they keep the feel of the font, and bump everything up equally, it might become overall too big to your eye. Nothing beats taping a comp to the boat and having Sam give it the once over.

I'd like to hope that even the fussiest *official* would allow it to be at least launch legal as is. :)

Looks like we're both doing some final redrilling tomorrow. :)

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:05 am
by chicagoross
What do yall think, should I fuss and re-do, or just say screw it and see if the CG complains?
:doh: I wonder what Larry would have done if he had made a defect on his boat that was visable at 30 feet? :doh: :D

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:10 am
by TomW
You probably need to fuss Larry. Otherwise some Law type will get a hair up his a** and give you a hard time at some point in time. I also think it would look better also. Nice jig by the way.

Tom

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 am
by stickystuff
The Law requires all lettering to be 3" tall spaced evenly with one letter blank space betweeb tne first tw and last two numbers. FL 1234 AB. Block lettering and clear. No exceptions as far as I know.

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:56 am
by cape man
The spacing was what I missed. Now I will say that was within months of launching that boat, and I ran it for 8 more years and never had a problem. After Barney Fife (that was his nickname amongst the locals) had his fun with me, I never replaced them and was stopped numerous times and no one said anything about the letters.

Image

However, I have noticed something else that is an issue with the letters... Since you are giving me the boat for my birthday, can you please change the GA to FL?

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:20 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the comments :D

The spacing is correct, it's just the height of 3 numbers that are short. These do qualify as block letters, no particular font is specified. But I'm going to re-do. Anything I haven't been happy with so far, I've done it again. and again. And again. No need to stop now. I feel like these will cause me future trouble, no need for that :lol:

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:22 am
by Cracker Larry
I wonder what Larry would have done if he had made a defect on his boat that was visable at 30 feet?
Do over, of course :doh:

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:43 am
by TomW
I would classify them as block as compared to script letters. Expecially as you said no font is specified. The other specification is that they be easily readable and yours are. So once you get the size problem taken care of I think you are in good shape. :D

Tom

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, I measured the dang things and they are clearly illegal. The letters are just barely 3". The largest number "5", is 2 3/4". The other numbers are only 2 1/4". My local game warden will not be pleased :(

Since I ordered these to be 3" registration numbers, do you think it's fair that I request they actually be 3" ? Even keeping Isaiah 58:9-11 in mind?

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:29 pm
by gk108
2¼" is the new 3". Just like that pound of coffee that now weighs 11½ oz. I'd say that is too short to even try getting away with. I like the way they look, though. :D

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:31 pm
by jbo_c
And a half gallon of ice cream is only 1.75 quarts now, too.

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:15 pm
by Aripeka Angler
And since in the spirit of change you should be able to get away with 2 inch numbers. Just tell the game warden that was all you could afford :lol: Half ass government with double taxes equals smaller boat numbers. Woops, sorry I got political :D

Larry, Change the numbers and we won't get caught with that Jewfish onboard in the Spring. Sorry, Goliath grouper...

Richard :D

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:17 pm
by ks8
2 3/4 inches is not 3 inches (I went to college). I don't think it is over the top at all to point this out to the graphics company. Since Indiana Jones is designed that way, clearly communicate to them that the smallest character must be at least 3 inches tall, but, as stated in the last post, you need to decide if you want them to bump the whole thing up until the smallest is 3 inches, or tweak them all further so they are all three inches and lined up. They may charge more for that because they are taking time to *correct* for the built in design of the font chosen. Even though you could cut them and apply them lined up, getting them all exactly 3 inches will take some time for the equipment operator/typesetter. Remember, you may be able to do all that yourself and send them a PDF, or EPS with the font file(s). It is handy to have the cut vinyl, from them, already on the translucent big post-it sheet so it is all lined up perfect in one shot. :)

I'm very surprised that a company that specifically markets boat graphics would neglect to review these details for a regi number with you, before accepting your approval for the job. By the time this is done, they may have a new sales procedure in place. :)

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm very surprised that a company that specifically markets boat graphics would neglect to review these details for a regi number with you,
They have also neglected to return my phone calls or answer email all day :doh: Oh well, we're only talking about $40.

Even with the warmer 70 daytime temps, the epoxy has been slow to harden in the motor mounting holes. Nights are still in the 30's. It's been so cold that I think the transom core was probably still at freezing, It finally got hard enough to sand it smooth this afternoon, 2 days later, but I'm going to give it another day before final drilling.

This project should have been done much earlier in the build, before priming and painting, and before the motorwell cover was glassed down :!: I'm covering all this sanded area with the transom plate, so it will be hidden, but it's a real hassle working around finish paint with fresh epoxy goo. Poor planning on my part :? Again.

Image

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:36 pm
by cape man
Don't kick yourself. Looking fine, and no one will ever know once you get the plate back on...well maybe a few of us will...

Look at it this way. Your one little comment about having difficulty getting the holes filled from inside the bilge area has prompted me to drill those holes before closing it up on mine. So thanks! 8)

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 pm
by Dougster
Boy Sam looks pleased. Got that "let's go fishin', boss" look. Boat looks just great, and gonna look even better with her power buttoned on. I have no doubt.

Says you'll catch fish cuz there's No Exuse Dougster

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:16 am
by cape man
Larry,

Are you going to have access to a jig again for the final drilling? I just realized I may need a jig twice, or for several days to allow for the epoxy to cure. Those four holes need to be precise, and are rather important.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:34 am
by Cracker Larry
Yes, those holes have to be exact and you do need to use it twice. I called the dealership yesterday morning, as I had promised to return it yesterday. (40 miles away) They told me to keep it another day or 2. They say they don't use it very often anymore, most of their boats come to them pre-powered as a package, and others come with the transom drilled at the factory.

I've also duplicated it in 3/4 plywood :lol:
Look at it this way. Your one little comment about having difficulty getting the holes filled from inside the bilge area has prompted me to drill those holes before closing it up on mine. So thanks!
That's what it's all about 8)
Says you'll catch fish cuz there's No Exuse Dougster
:D Thanks Dougster!

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:36 am
by Cracker Larry
Wondering now how long I should let it dry before hanging a 230 lb. motor on it and taking it for a 40 mile ride :doh:

I guess I'll do a test drill in a little while and see how it looks.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:07 am
by cape man
Let it dry until its hard :lol:

It took 3 days in the barn for some holes I filled for the hatch drains to harden. We are definitiely warming up now, but boy that was some slow hardner. Was beginning to doubt my mixing again. I would wait until you are dead sure that baby is cured all the way.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. Maybe Thurs or Fri. Slow hardner was one of the problems. That's all I have left, and I've got a gallon of it so that's what I used.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:25 am
by ks8
Put some lights on it. That's something I definitely learned to appreciate. I wouldn't bring it over 100°F, but that will speed things up even at that. A spot IR thermometer is real handy. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:17 am
by Cracker Larry
I did the final drilling yesterday and it came out perfect. The epoxy was plenty hard enough to drill and my fill was good and solid. The jig kept the bit centered in the epoxy collars just right :D I'm going to give it another day before hanging the motor, just to be safe.

We returned the drilling jig yesterday afternoon and picked up the shift and throttle cables. Today I'll run those and connect them to the control box. That should be an all day adventure :?

The graphics company (boatletteringtoyou.com) has accepted responsibility for the undersized numbers and are replacing the graphics for free :D Shipping them out today. That font just wouldn't work with the numbers so we had to switch to a similar font called shermlock.

Slow but sure 8)

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:25 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:
The graphics company (boatletteringtoyou.com) has accepted responsibility for the undersized numbers and are replacing the graphics for free :D Shipping them out today. That font just wouldn't work with the numbers so we had to switch to a similar font called shermlock.

Slow but sure 8)
Horay Image!!! Looking great Larry!

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:37 am
by ks8
Shermlock looks very readable, and like it could have flames blasting out the bottom of the *A*. The G is more readable than the previous. You should have no issues with the authorities at all with that font. And it is a constant height font without creative vertical offsets. It will be very difficult for the company to goof something up, and No excuse will be one step further away from identity crisis. :lol: :)

I'm thinkin' Sam will be much more pleased. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:49 am
by Murry
Alright! Larry. :P

You're almost there.

Good news the graphics.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:52 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall. This is how it's supposed to look.

Image

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:35 pm
by TomW
Looks good Larry! Good news on the motor to. You have been busy.

Tom

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks, yeah it's a lot better. I have too many vices to be drawing unnecessary attention to myself :wink:

Very warm today, almost 80 :D and I actually broke a sweat for the first time in months. Drank a couple of Richard's beers. The Mountaineers are good Richard :D

We got those dang control cables run, after 20 minutes of panic thinkin they weren't going to go :x I cussed the devil and prayed to the lord, shed an appropriate amout of blood to satisfy the boat Gods and finally got one through, after re-assessing the situation :doh:

The tip of the threaded rod on the end hangs up on the interior pipe joints. In the bag of many parts that comes with a control head, there is a little round pivot fitting that screws on the cable end. I attached it and had instant success. This holds the cable end off of the pipe sidewall and rolls it over the joint edges :idea: The second one went through in 30 seconds. Another trick picked up. Note these cables have about 7 inches of rigid rod on the ends. They will not make a sharp turn and barely make a wide one.

Image

The control head was a whole nuther battle. I forgot how much fun it is assembling one of these from scratch :lol: This teleflex control head is made to accept 4 kinds of cable and adapt to any motor configuration, with about 37 combinations of mounting points and adapters, and 47 pages of instructions. The first cable took about an hour figuring out the right combination of cable nests, mounting points, pivots, swivels, adapters, pins, bearings, snap caps and other assorted parts that make it all hopefully work smooth and the boat goes forward when we push the throttle. The second cable took about 5 minutes 8) Done with that :!:

Re-installed the transom plate for the final time......

Image

The next photo you see should have a Yamaha in it :D :D We're ready.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:50 pm
by peter-curacao
Man I’m really in jealous mode right now, congratulations Larry Image

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:33 pm
by ks8
She sure looks ready for it, and I can believe you and Sam are also. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:19 pm
by TomW
Hey Larry make sure that new motor is rated for E10 fuel. Don't want you gumming up the carbs. :D

Tom

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:48 am
by Lucky_Louis
Looking GREAT Larry! The new font looks like it belongs.

I'm sure you thought of it but just to be sure - make sure you slide the steering cable through the engine's pivot tube while the engine is still swinging in the air 'cause it can be a pain in the a$$ trying to slide it once the engine is bolted down. I know of this... :oops: It would easier for your boat cause you have top access to those rear lockers but still....

Wishing you God speed and fair days ahead.

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank yall very much for the comments :D

Louis, thanks, good reminder on the steering cable. I've fought a few of those myself and they are much easier with the engine hanging. Some are not even possible with it mounted.

Tomorrow's the big day :!:

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:38 pm
by mecreature
sweet... Cant wait to see it.

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:11 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, you have built one fantastic boat including the best of everything available. I know you will get many years of enjoyment out of all of your labor that you put into it. I think everybody here aspires to that kind of workmanship and quality in a build, I know I do.



H :D

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:40 pm
by icelikkilinc
Cracker Larry wrote: Tomorrow's the big day :!:
Amazing job Larry.. Lots of fun to go through your thread...
Can't wait to see her on water...

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:07 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks much to both of you. I couldn't do it without everyone here helping 8)

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:58 pm
by wegcagle
Today's the day :!: where's the motor?Your killin' us here :)

Will

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:04 pm
by Murry
where's the motor?Your killin' us here
I know it. He's probably been done since 9:30 Will. 8)

I've had one eye on this thing all day, waiting to see that engine pop up on my monitor here.

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:07 pm
by peter-curacao
Same here pompomtidom Image

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, OK :!: Just got home, give me a minute :lol:

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:33 pm
by colonialc19
Has it been a minute yet :?: :?: :!:

:lol: :lol:

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:46 pm
by peter-curacao
colonialc19 wrote:Has it been a minute yet :?: :?: :!:

:lol: :lol:
17 to be precise :P

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:50 pm
by ks8
He won't show us the boat on the trailer again. Probably just go right to the water and take pictures of her on plane. And then the close ups afterward. 8)

Or maybe not... :lol:

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Jeez, don't yall have boats to build, or launch :?:

Made the 100 mile trip safely and happily. The boat towed like a dream, easy on the truck and no swaying or bouncing. Very satisfied with her behavior behind the truck :D

I put 24 gallons of gas in her, along with marine Stabil and 2 quarts of oil. Got to run double oil for 10 hours. I was also very happy that she took fuel as fast as the pump could run, without sneezing or belching. I hate a slow fuel fill.

The dealership was very efficient and helpful, and we spent a long time talking boats. They are used to seeing Carolina Skiffs and such, nothing like this :doh: They scrounged me up some extra stuff, Yamaha key switch and more harnesses. If anyone is interested they beat Ed's and every other internet site by several hundred dollars.

Anyway, she's back home :D

Image

Oh yeah, we ended up with an 18" cupped prop on their recommendation as a starting point. Probably as good a place to start as any. They will swap it if it's not right.

Image

The steering cable is tight, it would have never gone on with the motor mounted. It seem not to be bound up though, should be OK.

Image
Probably just go right to the water and take pictures of her on plane.
:lol: I wish. There is only one thing between us and the water right now, and that's this box full of wires....

Image

This is going to take some pondering indeed :doh:

Back to work, got to get some power on her to work the trim :wink:
New registration numbers just showed up on UPS, great service from those folks. Also a Raynav GPS/Loran combo we've got to get installed.

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:27 pm
by TomW
Pretty, looks like a nice day to work on her also. Have fun with that bunch of wires. :lol: You may need what I sent you when it gets there later this afternoon. :wink:

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:32 pm
by topwater
She looks good CL with the engine hung.
I think youre going to be close on the prop, maybe a cupped 19.

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:43 pm
by peter-curacao
Real nice can't wait to see her on the water btw 2nd pic is really a blingbling pic 8)

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:48 pm
by Dog Fish
DAM nice. I can see ya now fighting a 140lb Silver King in her. I can't wait to take a ride and have a cold one with ya. Good luck getting it all wired up. That 70 looks like a perfect size and fit. Very 8)

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:25 pm
by wegcagle
OUCH :!: The dang glare from the shiney prop in the second picture really hurt my eyes 8) Awesome job. Now get that box of wires empty so we can see her flying in the water. Most of us have been waiting 161 pages for those pictures :D :D Congrats.

Will

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:34 pm
by colonialc19
Too dang cool Larry 8)

another milestone, hope the wiren' goes well, thats quite the box o wires 8O

Daniel

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:53 pm
by dborecky
Fantastic!!!! I bet it feels great to be at this point...... I would love to build a boat with you next time... 8) Maybe side by side!! :lol:

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:15 pm
by chicagoross
They are used to seeing Carolina Skiffs and such, nothing like this
That's got to be a real shocker for them, there's no comparison there (at least no comparison to what they're selling! :D ). Be sure to give them a ride so that they also know that it runs better on less HP and gas, too!

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:42 pm
by Aripeka Angler
DAM nice. I can see ya now fighting a 140lb Silver King in her.
Me too, me too :wink:

Looks great! The graphics match the motor perfectly. I am pretty sure that was no accident :)

The Loran coupler left on the brown truck today. You should get it Monday or Tuesday...

Richard

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:50 pm
by gk108
My only advice would be to connect the red wire to positive, but I don't see any red wire! :help:

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you all !

These wiring harnesses are going to take some time, and I've got to get some diagrams with pictures and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining each one. Assuming I can pull them through the chase tubes :help: But, nothing but a thing. When I'm finished it will work and I'll be smarter and drunker.
You may need what I sent you when it gets there later this afternoon.


It came Tom, it came :!: That's the finest rum I think I've ever tasted 8) If we don't quit tasting it, it won't make it to the christening party, if this afternoons progress is any indication of how long the wiring will take. Thanks :!: :!: That is some very fine and unusual rum :D In fact we might be tardy starting the race this morning if we're not careful 8O
My only advice would be to connect the red wire to positive, but I don't see any red wire!
That would be my instinct, too Gary, but so far I've connected every red to positive and every black to negative and still can't even lower the engine. Hasn't produced smoke either so that's a good thing.
The Loran coupler left on the brown truck today. You should get it Monday or Tuesday
Thanks Richard :!: Got the first unit in today, it's clean and looks great, but has no cables, brackets or anything else. Looks like I might end up with 3 of them, I'll install the best one, keep one for a spare and sell the other. If we get lost on this boat, someone should fire the captain :lol: 2 GPS. LORAN, plotter and radar :lol:
I can't wait to take a ride and have a cold one with ya. Good luck getting it all wired up. That 70 looks like a perfect size and fit. Very
Me too DF, thanks. I look forward to being there :wink: The 70 does look well proportioned to the boat, should be fine. As long as the fish are happy.
Now get that box of wires empty
It's empty Will, but nothing works yet :doh:
thats quite the box o wires
It dam sure is :doh:
That's got to be a real shocker for them,
I think we could call that "Quality Shock" Thanks CR.
I am pretty sure that was no accident
There aren't many accidents on this boat Richard :?
I would love to build a boat with you next time... Maybe side by side!!


Me too Derrick, thanks! Let's do it!

Thanks again yall, I'm out of here until race time.

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:33 pm
by peter-curacao
race time? :doh:

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:48 pm
by bushmaster
Hey Larry

What a marvelous creation. I love it and envy you whole lot.

That's too beautiful to put a crock into...well, maybe not as messy as bloody fishes.

Enjoy my friend


Bushmaster

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

race time?
Peter, where have you been? We're racing around the world, next leg China to Rio, over 12,000 miles, starts at midnight EST. May be 2300 your local. Maybe sometime else, I'm time challenged. Soon any way. You need to sign up and race with us! It's a hoot.

Go here http://www.volvooceanracegame.org and register. We have a Bateau group racing.

And a thread going on here until Joel throws us out...

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=450

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
What a marvelous creation. I love it and envy you whole lot.
Thank you, but don't envy me. You can do this too :wink:
That's too beautiful to put a crock into...well, maybe not as messy as bloody fishes.


Sorry, but what's a crock :doh: Bloody fish washes out. It won't hurt it, but I'm not sure about a crock. Thanks BM, I think :doh:

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:10 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:Peter, where have you been? We're racing around the world, next leg China to Rio, over 12,000 miles, starts at midnight EST. May be 2300 your local. Maybe sometime else, I'm time challenged. Soon any way. You need to sign up and race with us! It's a hoot.
Okay I did sign up but to be honest I ain't understand much of it :oops: my boat doesn’t move at all :doh:

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:11 am
by msujmccorm
Only one word for it Larry. Awesome!

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:59 pm
by bushmaster
That's what we call a crocodile ...crock... in the West South America

Bushmaster

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:05 pm
by ks8
peter-curacao wrote:Okay I did sign up but to be honest I ain't understand much of it :oops: my boat doesn’t move at all :doh:
What is the name of your boat? Have you ever sailed before? (just so we can syncronize a language of terms) :)

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's what we call a crocodile ...crock... in the West South America
Oh, those kind of crocks :lol: Yeah, that's what we call them over here too :oops:
Only one word for it Larry. Awesome!
Thank you Jeff :D

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:27 pm
by peter-curacao
ks8 wrote:
peter-curacao wrote:Okay I did sign up but to be honest I ain't understand much of it :oops: my boat doesn’t move at all :doh:
What is the name of your boat? Have you ever sailed before? (just so we can syncronize a language of terms) :)
El Siglo Del Mar. in real life I sailed a lot with my granddad :doh:

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:56 am
by msujmccorm
Larry,
I signed up and am racing but how do I get in y'alls group? I sailing the 5 oclock somewhere.

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:02 am
by Cracker Larry
As the Admiral, I have to sign you up. Stand by.... OK, I've sent you an invitation, you just have to accept.

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:20 pm
by bernd1
Larry,

why did you buy such a small engine :P - your toy looks very good - enjoy the ride with it.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:27 pm
by hwsiii
What is that about Bernd1.


H

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:26 pm
by Fonda@kauai
This symbol :P means he's just razzing him. All in good fun, Bernd is cool 8)

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:06 pm
by Murry
My words won't due your boat any justice. You done good Man :!:

The engine looks like it was made for the OD18. If just looks right hanging on that size boat. Great choice.

How's that wiring going?

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:24 pm
by hwsiii
Thanks Fonda, I couldn't understand what happened, I knew that got along good. LMAO :doh:

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:06 am
by Cracker Larry
why did you buy such a small engine
It's all the money my govenment left me with, after they stole my savings :doh: I'm surprised they didn't take the paddles too :?
What is that about Bernd1.


H
It's cool, H 8)
How's that wiring going?
Thanks Daniel, no progress of significance. I did get the shift cable working, and the throttle working backwards :? It rained all weekend, but I'm going after it with a vengence today :lol: [/quote]

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:34 am
by Knottybuoyz
Just lookin' back at your latest pictures Larry. Nice shiney new prop. Good thing you took that pic. It won't look like that too much longer eh?

Good job. Boy this thread is gettin' perdy long eh? :D

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:25 pm
by robbiro
Keep at it Larry, almost there. You have really put on a CLINIC with this build. Thanks for all of the info and teaching points, they really do help.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:15 pm
by TomW
Cracker Larry wrote:[Thanks Daniel, no progress of significance. I did get the shift cable working, and the throttle working backwards :? It rained all weekend, but I'm going after it with a vengence today :lol:
I guess you get to tear into that shifter again. aarrgh :x Have some more of that rum! Hope you had a good day today. Cold as H up here today barely reach 40, 19 when I got up. Tired of this BS.

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:53 pm
by stickystuff
You are now no longer a Virgin. I don't think their is a boat buider out there that has not hooked up the throttle cable backwards, me included.Ain't it fun. Next challenge is hooking up a dual station cable setup. If you think you drink now try and hook one of these up.
Great job. Now lets hear from the performance when splashed.

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Have some more of that rum! Hope you had a good day today.
Saving the rum for splash day Tom. Thanks again :!:
You are now no longer a Virgin.
Been a long time since I was a virgin with control cables Ken :lol: I've hooked em up before, duals too, it's been a while though. Don't think I've ever done it right on the first try :doh: Sometimes not the second. They are always a challenge, and too long in between. The good thing is, I've taken it apart so many times, I know exactly how it works :lol: Got it whipped now :wink:

Image

I'm going to cover the cable bundle with a zippered sleeve.

Image

Well, the business end is complete anyway, and the throttle and shifter is squared away on both ends. The other end of the electrical still has some work to be done...

Image

There are 2 different wiring harnesses, one for the gauges and one for everything else. They both have substantial plugs on both ends. The gauge harness I was able to run through plug and all :D. The main harness has 2 plugs and there was no way, no how, I busted every knuckle, tried every sailor word, no way it was going through that pipe. So I cut the plugs off. Will have to splice them back on. No big deal, should have cut it before I wasted 2 hours fighting it.

Image

USE LARGE CHASE TUBES! MORE THAN 1 :!:

Tomorrow's an easy wiring day. The hard part is finished :D I do wish it would get warmer though. Only 50 today, colder tomorrow.

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:20 pm
by ks8
It's so shiney... 8)

Clean cabling. And it looks like the cockpit is broken in already with some tree schmutz. :)

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:41 am
by chicagoross
counting down to the weekend? Looking at all that hardware, that's one serious machine. You're gonna have to spend an awful lot of time explaining things down at the ramp.

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:34 am
by rcihard
Larry, I guess most people know that I don't post too many comments on this forum - but I got to say that I have been watching every move of your build and I am really starting to get excited so..... get the bloody thing in the water, I can't stand waiting any longer :D
PS went to sleep during the dog watch and lost 23000 places
cheers
Richard

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:12 pm
by JimW
Larry,

I had installed one harness for my motor and then it prooved too short. I could not pull it back out. I obtained a longer one and had to use the other chase tube for it. I could not pull it with what was in there and I too had to cut the plugs off and resplice. Painfull but not as bad as I expected.

Anyone else I'd warn to take their time and do a "perfect" soldering and insulation job. You, I won't worry about at all.

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
it looks like the cockpit is broken in already with some tree schmutz.


Thanks ya KS. Muddy feet mostly, and some blood. Been raining.
counting down to the weekend?
Thanks Ross, I'm still not jinxing anything with a date or I might end up in a state of perpetual build like KS :lol: But It's looking promising. I've got a few more things to sort out..

Image

I think I've got them mostly figured out, and at least they aren't still in the box.
I am really starting to get excited so..... get the bloody thing in the water, I can't stand waiting any longer


I appreciate your comment Richard. Will soon splash :!:
I too had to cut the plugs off and resplice. Painfull but not as bad as I expected
Yep, it's not a big deal at all, it only took me about an hour to splice and heat shrink it all back together.

We also had to replace our dinky ignition switch with a Yamaha contraption. It has a horn and buzzer and warning lights for low oil, high temp and over revs. Plus an emergency cut off lanyard. This required a large cutout, then sealing the cut edges and screw holes with epoxy. We got it cut out late yesterday and gave it one coat, then another this morning.

Image

This afternoon we got it installed...

Image

Tomorrow we're going to try to make some noise and blow some smoke :lol:

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:05 pm
by peter-curacao
Man I love the looks of that boat

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:14 pm
by Hope2float
CL the boat looks incredible. your work sets an example to all and is a joy to follow. I have just one thing about the wire splice that may come back to haunt you imo. I can't see if you are crimping the wires or soldering them. Crimping may lead to connection failure at the most inconvienent time due to oxidation problems with marine enviroment. If the wires are not pretinned it will be worse. A handheld iron with a ball of melted solder will do the trick. Before soldering slip the right size heat shrink tubing over one end, solder, well you know the rest. Once again great build and awesome workmanship.

Dave

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:23 pm
by colonialc19
Tomorrow we're going to try to make some noise and blow some smoke
Ahh, the smell of double oil :)

can't wait to see her wet Larry, i'm excited and it aint even my boat :lol:

Daniel

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
one thing about the wire splice that may come back to haunt you imo
Thanks a bunch Dave :D You're right, but trust me, nothing about these wire splices will ever come back to haunt anyone :wink:
i'm excited and it aint even my boat


Daniel, I'm about to bust :!:

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:54 pm
by captj13
Larry,
Best of luck with the splash! When I think of the most memorable moments in my life, they include the first launching of boats I have built. I remember vividly the sounds, the feel of the boat beneath my feet, the sheer joy I felt as they first moved through the water. Maybe I am a bit wacked when it comes to this.... but when you put that much time, and that much of yourself into a boat, feeling it floating beneath your feet for the first time is a rush. Enjoy that day to the fullest !!!!! You did a great job !!

John

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:12 pm
by Dog Fish
John

Great post, and just so you don't feel alone I will tell ya your not the only one that's wacked :lol: :lol: :lol: Just think how many people never have or never will experience that feeling.

Go Larry Go

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:30 pm
by Murry
i'm excited and it aint even my boat :lol:
Yeah, what he said.

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:06 am
by kdog
Ah Larry you're gonna love that motor, I have the same one. :D Hasn't missed a beat, had a hiccup or any problems at all for 3 hard seasons. Very easy to maintain as well. The best part was everything is plug and play, Yamaha Binnacle control box, gauges, harness and ignition switch. Very easy install, nice watertight/solid connections. The Yamaha control cables are pretty nice too.

Sorry you had to cut the harness though because of that plug. I think I pushed my harness from the helm back to the motor to get it through the tube (barely).

+1 on larger chase tubes, wish I had done that!

Anyway you got her licked now, best of luck with the upcoming launch!

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:18 am
by TomW
Larry, smelling smoke and hearing noise. That's what you've been waiting for. You have a wonderful and beautiful boat there. Be proud and enjoy. :D

Tom

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:13 am
by Cracker Larry
Thank you all. Wouldn't you know it, raining again this morning :(
The best part was everything is plug and play, Yamaha Binnacle control box, gauges, harness and ignition switch. Very easy install, nice watertight/solid connections. The Yamaha control cables are pretty nice too.
Kdog, it's nice stuff for sure, but as usual I have to do things the hard way :doh: I've got a Teleflex control box and teleflex gauges, so I have to figure out the wires for all the sending units, trim, tilt, neutral safety switch and who knows what else. At least I've got the Yamaha ignition switch :D

She is licked now though, just a few more details to figure, when it quits raining.

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:15 pm
by Murry
so I have to figure out the wires for all the sending units, trim, tilt, neutral safety switch and who knows what else.
Hopefully, you've had access to a diagram Larry.

If not 8O, I feel your pain from here.

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:48 pm
by flatpicker
Larry, I'm pretty much a newbie at all this boat building/restoration stuff, and will hopefully be finishing up my restore soon and hope to build soon after that. I just wanted to say that I read through your whole build when I joined this forum, and I'm almost as excited as you about your boat and upcoming lauch! It's a great inspriration for all of us. You're one heck of craftsman! This is a one of kind community/forum that I'm glad to be a part of

Now get some blood on No Excuse, and enjoy her to the fullest!!

BTW, I went to school in Statesboro and did a lot of roaming, or something like that, in Savannah. Beautiful part of GA.

Marty

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:00 pm
by ks8
Hurry up and wait... :lol:

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:12 pm
by WobblyLegs
ks8 wrote:Hurry up and wait... :lol:
I'm waiting...

Larry, that is one hellavu (or is that helluva?) boat you have built there!

I'm amazed, really really amazed!

Tim.

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:32 pm
by BassMunn
Larry the suspense is killing us :help:

:wink:

Boat looks awesome, can't wait to see it wet 8)

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:38 pm
by fishin'
Larry, The boat looks great you have done a great job. You probably know this, but since you mentioned having a horn on your ignition switch I wanted to let you know that in SC they do not accept that type of horn as a safety noise device. Buy yourself a whistle if you don't have one, that way you will never be out of compressed air when it matters. Can't wait to see her launched!!!

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:27 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks again to all for the comments :D The sun is shining today and I hope to blow some smoke.

since you mentioned having a horn on your ignition switch I wanted to let you know that in SC they do not accept that type of horn as a safety noise device. Buy yourself a whistle if you don't have one
It's just a warning horn for overheat and low oil, nothing to do with a signaling device :doh: I've got a 25 watt hailer for a horn, and a compressed air horn, and a whistle (tied to every life jacket).
BTW, I went to school in Statesboro and did a lot of roaming, or something like that, in Savannah. Beautiful part of GA.

Marty
Come over and fish with me this summer Marty :wink:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:50 am
by Dog Fish
Larry you have to build a pole barn to keep your boat under because when it rains you have to much time on your hands.( Turtles with teeth longer than railroad spikes ) :lol: :lol:

Hope all goes well with the splash :!:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:08 am
by TomW
Good luck and best wishes finishing up today and getting some smoke and noise. :D

Tom

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:16 am
by flatpicker
Cracker Larry wrote:Come over and fish with me this summer Marty :wink:
Would love to CL 8) Just have to convinced my wife that all I would be doing is fishing :wink:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:08 pm
by Dog Fish
Sounds like they got there ass kicked out side of Atlanta, I guess you didn't have any problems since you said it was nice and sunny this morning. Looking forward to splash report. :)

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:20 pm
by gk108
I hope the bad weather dissipated by the time it made it over that way. The tornado that hit T'ville was uncomfortably close to where I work. 8O

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:45 pm
by Dog Fish
I hear ya

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
We had some terrible storms during the night and some tornadoes just across the river in SC, but we were lucky and didn't have any damage. The power didn't even go out, for a change. The front moved through about daylight, sun came out early, clear and windy as hell all day. Going to be cold tonight, again.

Anyway, we made some serious progress. Got the wiring all sorted out and finished up, almost finished up anyway... got a little more trim work to complete..

Image

I tested everything I could test with a multi-meter, I think it's all right. Most everything seems to work, trim/tilt is finally functioning :D The motorwell size came out perfect.

Image

Then we primed the fuel system. A lot of hose and a big filter was more than me and the squeeze bulb could overcome, no matter how many times I squeezed, so I hooked the air compressor to the vent line and pushed fuel down the line. If we ever run the tank dry it's going to be a problem. Maybe an electric fuel pump is in order. This works though.

Image

Having no further excuse, we turned on the water and fired her up. She runs great! Blowing smoke and making noise at last :D :D Got a pee stream like my 20 year old son.

Image

We let her run for about half an hour while I tested everything. All the gauges work except for the trim, which works backwards for some reason :doh: I'll need to re-read the documentation on that one, but everything of importance works. Not a good picture but it's a happy dash :D

Image

While she was idling away, I started sealing the chase tubes. I don't want water in the tubes, and don't want one compartment to be able to flood another through the chases. First I pack some plastic down the hole, around the cables and push it down tight about half an inch below the lips. Don't want a bottomless pit :wink: Then filled the top 1/2" with 4200. I can dig it out if I need to, but it makes a good seal and keeps the cables from chafing on the pipe edges.

Image

So we're about ready to splash. Tomorrow I'll replace the registration numbers, mount a fire extinguisher, get all the other safety and boat gear loaded, make final checks, and we're splashing her :D She's ready :!:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:37 pm
by peter-curacao
Looking good Larry good luck tomorrow have lot's of fun Image

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:37 pm
by TomW
That's great Larry. Super news and sharp job. Bet that smoke smelled sweet and noise was music to your ears. Hope the wind dies down, it has been windy as h*** up here to but supposed to die down tomorrow, hope it does the same for you.

Good luck and have fun at the launch. :D Don't forget the camera! :wink:

Tom

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:50 pm
by Murry
Excellent Larry, Have fun tomorrow.

Looks like Sam is getting bored, He must be ready to sart building another one. :D

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:18 pm
by jgroves
GREAT work! I'm glad everything worked for you. The trim tilt is probably wired backwards :D You have probably already thought of that though. Keep us posted... I'm very anxious to see her on the water! Thanks for posting so many great pictures... we all enjoy them and from the positive responses you get it's obvious everyone appreciates them.

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:29 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry

To bad for those other people, but glad to hear you came out with no storm damage.
It sounds like the day is really hear, good luck.

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:52 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, be sure and get a bunch of numbers off the GPS and Tach, so we can run some more analysis on the props.


H :doh:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:39 pm
by Spokaloo
Larry, I believe that is the only plug you can invert the wires on in the whole Yam system, so have a look-see at how it went together and reconfirm how they mate up. I remember looking at that wire and thinking "hmm, you could screw this up" on my F50.

Looking stellar, can't wait to see her wet.

E

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, be sure and get a bunch of numbers off the GPS and Tach,
Don't worry, I'll do that. It will be interesting to see how how the results play out, versus the math and the speculation. The math (most of it) says I'm under propped. My speculation thinks I'm over propped. We'll know real soon :D Maybe tomorrow.

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, I believe that is the only plug you can invert the wires on in the whole Yam system, so have a look-see at how it went together and reconfirm how they mate up. I remember looking at that wire and thinking "hmm, you could screw this up" on my F50.


There's not a plug, anymore, my gauges aren't Yamaha. The sending unit for the trim is only 1 wire. The gauge has a ground, a power and a 1 wire sending unit input. The yamaha harness has 1 trim sending unit wire. But up reads down and down reads up. I think I read something about this in the teleflex gauge manual, just need to read it again. I've been reading a lot of manuals.

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:59 am
by ks8
Watch out for big turtles, and enjoy. :D I'm loading up boat gear too, and waiting til this flu is flewed. Make some clean wake. 8)

(... pictures ...)

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:00 am
by TomW
Hope it's not to cold for you down there. 19 here and only supposed to be in the high 30's to maybe 40. brrrrrrrrr. Although I don't think that will stop you today. :lol: :lol: Keep warm and blue skys! :D

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:05 pm
by msujmccorm
I bet this was the most checked on thread today waiting to see "splash"

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:06 pm
by topwater
:D

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sorry, no launch today. But we're ready to go for tomorrow :D Very cold and windy today. I'm sick of cold.

I discovered that my flares were expired and I needed a new fire extinguisher too, so I made the 80 mile round trip to Savannah and got everything we needed.

Installed the new registration numbers...

Image

Installed the fire extinguisher too. While I was at Boaters World, they were having a 50% off on Igloo coolers and seat cushions, so I bought a 98 quart cooler and cushion. Needed a fish cooler and somewhere to sit until I decide what to do about a leaning post. A few measurements determined that the same cooler cushion would be a perfect fit for the front console seat, and I got one for it too 8) Now Mrs Cracker will be happy.

Image

The Fire Ext. worked out good there, it's completely protected by the T-top legs. I like to have it within reach of the helm and if you keep it visable it helps to keep the USCG from pulling you over and asking to see it :wink:

Mrs. Crackers seat cushion...

Image

And we sorted and loaded fenders, dock lines, anchors and rodes and chain, tow line, stowed life jackets in the T-bag (I hate that name :? ) Packed nav and safety gear, put together a tool box, rounded up 11 drain plugs, and did everything else to make her shipshape. Even got Cape Man's beer and Toms rum packed. My ears hurt from the cold :(

Only thing left is to hook her up to the truck :lol: Dori wants to be on the maiden voyage, supposed to be warmer and calmer tomorrow, but it doesn't matter, she's going to splash anyway.

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:47 pm
by DrBones
Cracker Larry... - Your boat is absolutely, undoubtedly beautiful! What a job! I haven't checked the boards in some time, but I have been following your incredible work. She is just marvelous!

Now, just a tip: I see that you probably will run into the same problem I did w/my trailer. The cross member at the tongue of the trailer under the bow of the boat is a bump & scratch waiting to happen if you don't 'drown' your trailer until it is under water also and then release the bow chain. You'll notice that she'll float really quick and release easily and the bow will come down...looking for water to splash in. If that water isn't there..the cross member might catch the bow. As I'm not as an elegant builder as you are...I solved it with a piece of tire that I tied to the cross member with zip ties. Not beautiful..but works.

..and I'm sick and tired of this cold also!

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:01 pm
by TomW
Hey sounds like your ready! Looked at the forecast supposed to be in the 60's for you and sunny! May you have a fine day for the launch and a great day for you and Dori! No Excuse will have a proper launch for her namesaie also Larry, I'm sure he will be looking down on you!

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:30 pm
by BassMunn
Good Luck Larry :!:
You definately don't miss much do you, sounds like you've got everything ready to go.
The cooler box is a nice addition and Mrs Cracker's seat cushion looks like it was made for the boat.

Bass wishes :D

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the compliments Dr. Bones :D
If that water isn't there..the cross member might catch the bow.
Thanks for that tip too. I'll watch it real careful. My bunk boards are 14' long so it might not be able to fall that far, but we'll watch it close. In fact, I've got some trailer bunk carpet I'll wrap around and zip tie to the cross member until we see how it behaves.
Hey sounds like your ready! Looked at the forecast supposed to be in the 60's for you and sunny!
Thanks Tom, she's ready. I've taken out many boats that were not as ready as this one is :lol: The weather is looking good enough, I've got a jacket and Sam has a fur coat.

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:56 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry, I am not going to say good luck with the splash this time and maybe it will really happen. :lol: :lol:

Ya, I agree T-Bag is like the stupidest name. Life vest bag, that wasn't to hard.

A little dark in the pic but the registration #s do look a lot better.

Time to let it ride. There is NO EXCUSE .

Hold on Mrs Cracker hes in the rum again.

















OK don't tell anyone but G--- L--- W--- T-- S----- :P

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:47 pm
by ks8
Drain plug. Go. :D

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:54 am
by Cracker Larry
23 degrees right now 8O Still going to splash her :D

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:13 am
by Dog Fish
I don't know how much longer people can take this Global Warming :?:

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:33 am
by Cracker Larry
Obama has earmarked 10 billion to fix it. I'm sure that will solve it.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:19 am
by peter-curacao
Dog Fish wrote:Ya, I agree T-Bag is like the stupidest name
Indeed ! what would people think if you say "before we go I have to t(ea) bag the life vests" or "one moment I’m t(ea)bagging the life vests" ImageYuk I definitely wouldn’t put one on anymore :P

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:44 am
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:23 degrees right now 8O Still going to splash her :D
I'm assuming 23ºF? Do you have an ice-breaking stem?

Have fun!!

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:51 am
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:Installed the fire extinguisher too.

Image
Larry, just a comment about this that I'd never thought of. I recently had to do a Skipper's test to legally drive a boat out here down south, and one of the requirements was to mount the fire extinguisher horizontally, and rotate it every three or four trips to stop the powder compacting. Assuming yours is powder, of course.

Just a thought, that's all.

Tim.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:55 am
by Dog Fish
I think its a law for manufacturers to have each extinguisher labeled as to there mounting position . Some can be mounted eather way I know and others only one way. Not real sure though, if its not a law it should be.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:31 pm
by TheBroomside
Wobblylegs wrote:and rotate it every three or four trips to stop the powder compacting
Do not want to highjack the thread, but thanks for the tip.

Please do not take this problem lightly, I once almost lost a wooden classic to fire because a powder extinguisher failed me due to powder compaction. It was an inboard diesel, which means a lot of vibration, but I guess the high speed runs with outboards might have te same effect.

Peter
LUS

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:20 pm
by peter-curacao
Maybe time to switch to CO2?

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:31 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Where are the pics :?: We wanna see the pics. Oh yea, and the broken champagne bottle :wink:

Richard

PS, Don't damage the Sterling paint :!:

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:40 pm
by Dog Fish
I think if you shake, shake. shake the dry chemical extinguisher every once and a while you will be fine.


Well Larry I would say that by now you should have a great big smile and mabe even a good buzz. I hope so anyway.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:49 pm
by Dog Fish
Cracker Larry wrote:It's official. The plywood arrived on Tuesday and beautiful it is, 19 sheets of 1088 Miranti. I've got most of the details straight in my head, so we're building again, Capt. Sam and I.

I laid out and rough cut the stringers last night. 8 pieces 5 1/2" X 8' of 3/4 ply that will be laminated together. Hope to finish them this weekend and get the bottom and sole layed out and cut. I still have about a gallon of epoxy and a little tape and cloth from the last project to get me started. Need to order more, soon!

Robbie, don't let me finish this one before your GF16 :D
March 22, 2007




I bet you remember that day all to well. :)

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:01 pm
by msujmccorm
Robbie, I think he beat you :D

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:04 pm
by cape man
Enjoy the brew. You deserve it!

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:40 pm
by ks8
I think I just heard Sam give a bark of approval for getting No Excuse back on the trailer unscathed. Maybe we'll have some pictures in a few more hours? :D

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 pm
by nort
It may have been cold for the launch, but what do you bet he took plenty of antifreeze.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:57 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Larry, where did you launch, Key West :lol:

We want to see the pics :wink:

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:38 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Well ya old cracker, did she float? :doh:

Cmon CL, we're dying here.... :lol:

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:41 pm
by msujmccorm
He must be running to his virtual boat to deliver rum. 8O

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:01 pm
by flattitude 1976
after reading 168 pages of this thread its time to see this thing wet :!:

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:10 pm
by PastorBob
he's probably still at the ramp answering questions... :lol:

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:45 pm
by cape man
I gotta go to dinner... hope it's all good.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:30 pm
by flatpicker
Lucky_Louis wrote:Cmon CL, we're dying here.... :lol:

What he said :D
Hope the GPS wasn't wired backwards :wink:

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:41 pm
by robbiro
Jeff,
I have not seen definitive proof yet!!!!! But, he is definitely further along than I am right now. I have to keep mine upside down for another week to give the epoxy/graphite time to totally cure. Then off we go again.'

CL great job, but where are the pics, I will post mine as soon as we get a software glitch figured out. Once again, Congrats and thanks for all the teaching and support that you have given all of us.

Robbie

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:03 am
by gerry
Can not wait to see her in the water...what fantastic workmanship, definitely keeps me going. This is what building your own boat is about :D

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:47 am
by peter-curacao
flatpicker wrote:Hope the GPS wasn't wired backwards :wink:
Not sure but I thought I did see a boat with the name NO EXCUSE passing here :lol:

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:24 am
by Daddy
Didn't come by here, we still have 16 inches of ice on the lake

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:10 am
by Cracker Larry
OK,OK, yall are an impatient bunch :D We made a full day of it, ran over 100 miles, got home at dark, fell asleep early.

It's going to take me a while to get my thoughts and pictures together, but it was a great day. Boat handles beautifully! A few minor issues to resolve, but only minor.
Enjoy the brew. You deserve it!
Craig, thanks for everything :!: :D You'll be proud to know that your BBB was the very first beer to toast Neptune, and to be shared on this boat 8) And the T-top worked out perfectly. So this shot's for you!


Image

Full report to follow later.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:19 am
by cape man
Here's to you! The brewer is honored! Will have to make another label for launching. That console looks HUGE!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:19 am
by Joe H
Congradulations!

Joe H

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:39 am
by WobblyLegs
Well done and congrat's!!!

100 miles!?

Looking forward to some more pics of the maiden voyage!

Tim.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:50 am
by Dog Fish
Congratulations Larry and Mrs Cracker, you really had us wondering what happened to ya. Larry you are always very prompt at responding to your days gaines or setbacks, :lol: you kept us hanging LOL. Well, I am glad to hear every thing went with out any major problems . That is quite a shake down cruse, ( 100 miles ) but that's how you find what you need to or not to fix. Good deal.

I have to laugh at remembering what my Dad told me when I was a kid.
Son there's 3 things you have to know about a boat.

1= There's something broke you know about you have to fix.
2= There's something broke you don't know about you have to fix.
3= And there's something about to break.
He was a wise man :!:

Brian

PS. They really let you know its a T-Bag :lol:

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:54 am
by hwsiii
I am glad everything went great for y'all Larry, It sounds like y'all had a wonderful day.


H

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:06 am
by gk108
100 miles is plenty enough to keep you occupied on a chilly day. Plenty enough for an honest shakedown cruise, too.
:D 8) :!:

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:13 am
by Dimitris
Congratulations on the splash!. It has been long waited (not very long indeed). 100 miles is a very long trip, so we wait for a lot of pictures :)

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:56 am
by bushmaster
Congrats Larry

I have to add my compliments to all the others who have been following your
build very closely including myself.

There are lots of good ideas I can steal from your build in finishing my boat.

You have always been helpful and quick to respond to any builder with valuable information when the needed help. Please keep reading our posts and do not forsake us now that you are done with your build.

Please provide performance stats so that we can take note.


Congrats once more for a well build boat.


Bushmaster

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:09 pm
by msujmccorm
He's got BBV pretty bad.
You have always been helpful and quick to respond to any builder with valuable information when the needed help. Please keep reading our posts and do not forsake us now that you are done with your build.
I don't think he's done. It's probably just a matter of what boat he builds next.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:19 pm
by peter-curacao
Image
Now that's a happy looking lady

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:26 pm
by CeeTime
Gratz! A very nice pro looking build to.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks to each of you for coming along on this journey :D 23 months :!: I really could not have done it without all the good advice and ideas, and the encouragement, so thanks again.

I'm not going anywhere, I'm about to start another boat :wink: Mrs. Cracker took this one.

This splash report may come in installments.

We launched right down the road in the blackwater swamp off the Savannah River. It's 5 minutes from the house, and neighbors with cell phones and boats. The river valley is protected somewhat from the wind, which was stiff. She was built in the swamp, might as well introduce her now.

The launch was uneventful, she easily floated off the trailer and I just drove out from under her.

This first pic is for Dr. Bones, I protected the cross member as he suggested, but it didn't give a problem. Better safe 8)

Image

Ready to splash...

Image

And now floating...

Image

So I go park the truck and come back and take this picture, and I'm thinking she's down by the bow :doh: Further investigation revealed the mate forgot to put in the anchor locker drain plug :oops:

She's more anxious than I am, photographs better too :wink:

Image

So after installing the plugs, warming the engine and last minute checks, we're off...

Image

This is an oxbow lake called Tuckassee King. This little channel leads out to the Savannah River. The Savannah runs from it's headwaters in the NC mountains, all the way to the ocean at Savannah. It divides GA and SC it's entire lower length. It has fierce currents and lots of floating trees, vigilance is required in the main river.

Muddy now from rain and red clay, and low from 7 years of drought.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:46 pm
by TomW
Larry congrats on getting her wet! :D 100 miles is a nice shake down cruise. Dori sure looked happy in that first picture.

Keep 'em coming look forward to your future reports.

Tom

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Tom. We used a little of your rum in the launching ceremony also :!: Excellent rum :!: We need it too, it was freezing!

Headed upriver in the Savannah, that way if something breaks we can drift back towards home. Current running as fast as 8 mph in places today. Nothing broke though :D We set a destination of another oxbow lake 50 miles upriver for lunch and turnaround.

The controls are smooth as silk, boats handling good, we spend a few hours running up river, varying speeds for break in.

Interesting sights along the way...

Image

Vigilance is required, lots of trees floating. Mrs. Cracker has the helm.

Image

Hope she's paying attention..

Image

Someone who obviously didn't pay attention 8O

Image

It's a cold day to fish.

Image

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:23 pm
by Dog Fish
No No No :!: INSTALLMENTS

Larry she looks beautiful on the water and so does the boat. Hi Mrs Cracker :) Very cool. Keep the installments coming.

Ps. The pics really came out crisp and clear, I feel like I am there. Beautiful :!:

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:29 pm
by topwater
CL the boat looks awsome on the water :!:
I think it's time to take a permanent black magic marker
to the white logo on the t-bag :wink:
that logo doesn't do no excuse any justice.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:34 pm
by Dog Fish
topwater wrote:CL the boat looks awsome on the water :!:
I think it's time to take a permanent black magic marker
to the white logo on the t-bag :wink:
that logo doesn't do no excuse any justice.
No one seems to like that T-Bag :!:

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:59 pm
by TomW
Georgeous pics of the river, Larry!

The majority seems to be T-bag has to go! :lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys looked well bundled up yesterday! You would probably have stayed in if you were up here today, 27 and snowing now :? :doh:

Tom

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:07 pm
by gk108
The overhead bag needs a set of pockets sewn across the front. 8)

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:12 pm
by kdog
Woohoo!! Congrats on the launch and an awesome build!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:20 pm
by jgroves
Congratulations Larry! Your boat looks great! Have fun breaking her in.

Congrats

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:27 pm
by plumbertuck
all I can say is WOW !
it looks great, I think my wife and kids are equally impressed, I know that they are tired of me talking about your build and me calling them over to look over my shoulder at your pics, they want me to finish mine, I sure have inspiration from yours
Thanks!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, yep, T-Bag logo has to go. Black spray paint.

A shot of the wake on one of the first run ups. It's clean and smooth. Boat balance and trim is good, easily adjusted with the power trim.

Image

Another wake.

Image

Arrived at our lunch lake, occupied by a redneck houseboat..

Image

Pulled ashore in a sunny spot and strectched the legs while Dori made lunch

Image

This little lake has dozens of gators. Too cold today for them. Lunch was smoked salmon with cheese and crackers. We forgot the cutting board.

Image

Fat and happy we headed back with the current and pulled into our home creek just before sunset.

Image

She loaded on the trailer just as easy as she came off :D Loaded and back on the hill with her first scum line.

Image

She ran like a top all day, not a moments trouble. Very stable, tracks like it's on a rail. We'll talk about performance later, but we're very happy with her :D

Ran 97 miles by the GPS and put 6.1 engine hours on her. It purrrrrs 8)

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:42 pm
by bermudian
Larry you really set the bar high for every one else. That is one fine looking dory, I'm sure you will have some good time with her.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:44 pm
by MadRus
Congratulations Larry. It's been a long time coming, but clearly worth it!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:48 pm
by Daddy
Ahh Larry, one more aye for the boat, nay for the T-Bag.
Daddy

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:50 pm
by ks8
Enjoy! :D

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks again yall! I appreciate you. One more pic today...

Image

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:02 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Looking great Larry 8) Sounds like you had a sweet launch. I look forward to taking a ride to the grouper grounds aboard No Excuse at CR in the spring. Take care my friend, see you in a couple of months....

Richard :D

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:16 pm
by Dougster
I've been pretty much speechless through the whole thing. Just look at it, can you believe it came from your own hands? What turned plywood into a boat, and a boat into No Exuse? We know, but it's hard to put into words.
I'm about to start another boat Wink Mrs. Cracker took this one
I'm thinkin' she probably deserves it and, anyway, it looks good on her.

Singin' Hallelujah Dougster

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:28 pm
by Knottybuoyz
Congratulations Larry. Well done, well deserved.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:39 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
:D :D :D :D :D :D Congratulations, Larry!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:33 pm
by chicagoross
Congratulations on a fine build Larry - and congrats to Mrs. Cracker on her beautiful new boat! Enjoy! Can't wait to see what's next! :D

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:15 pm
by Hope2float
Congratulations! on a fine build. I wish you all the best with her and hope she brings you much joy and an enduring sense of accomplishment. I have just one request can you consider the P-21 for your next build,well maybe just wishful thinking. Larry you have set the bar for the rest of us.
Dave

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:47 pm
by captj13
Congratulations, glad everything went smooth!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:21 pm
by mecreature
Very cool. Best lookin boat I have ever seen.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:22 pm
by cape man
Inspiring me to get out and start gluing and taping again! Congrats!!!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:45 pm
by dborecky
BRAVO!!!!!! What else is there to day?????!!!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:00 pm
by Spokaloo
Applauso Applauso!

Exactly how we all expected it to look.

Though Tom is going to be posting twice as often elsewhere if this thread is gone....

Great looking boat!

So FL26 next?

E

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:07 pm
by Murry
I think every member has posted after that test run, and you've earned every compliment. Beautiful boat Larry. :!:

I'd also like to thank you for all the help you've given me along the way Larry, you've helped by answering my questions on numerous occasions and coutless times through your detailed posts. Thanks again. :D

Ordered you ply yet. :wink:

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:15 pm
by peter-curacao
cape man wrote:Inspiring me to get out and start gluing and taping again! Congrats!!!
Indeed I had a big hangover today and thought I would do nothing today but hanging in my bed watching the tube, but after seeing those pics I jumped in my boat and glued/fillet and taped the inside stingers,thanks Larry!!! Image

B.t.w. Please do Tom I highly appreciate your postings!!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:46 pm
by hwsiii
That wake really looks great Larry, and of course the boat does as well. You have done a masterful job on this boat.


H :D

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:51 pm
by Doc_Dyer
AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please tell us what you will build next :D

Bradley

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:33 pm
by Doug N
Congratulations Larry. Glad to see that the first outing went so well. Beautiful boat and a great place to use it. Thanks for posting all of the work you've done as you went along. I've learned lots and frequently go back to you're posts for info.
Doug

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:31 am
by Cracka
Well Larry, you did it.....Congratulations to you, it looks fantastic mate. Mrs Cracker looks happy too, as they say, happy wife, happy life.

Now to enjoy the fruits of your hard labour.

Mick.

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:54 am
by Bowmovement
Just Beautiful!!
Image

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:19 am
by colonialc19
Primo 8) 8)



Daniel

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:32 am
by Oceola
Very well done Larry...congratulations

Frank

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:07 am
by BassMunn
Well done Larry, Congratulations.

Looks damn cold there 8O

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:33 am
by cape man
So I go park the truck and come back and take this picture, and I'm thinking she's down by the bow Further investigation revealed the mate forgot to put in the anchor locker drain plug
Couple of questions... Is the drain below the water line when she's empty (your mate is lighter than mine), and if so, by how much? Did you have a full 40 gallons in the tank forward? More importantly, were you able to pull the plug and drain it while up on a plane? All my drains are pretty much where your's are so was real anxious to see where your boat (i.e. the sole) sits with the extra weight you have. How about the scuppers?

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:42 am
by onemilehigh
Larry, Great boat. I really enjoy watching your thread. Congratulations.

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:44 am
by frazoo
Wow, what a great boat! Now go and get her bloody :D !

frazoo

"NO EXCUSE"

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:16 am
by cottontop
Larry, What a "beautiful build". There aren't enough accolades or adjectives to describe your boat and the masterful work you have done. I said in a much earlier thread that "You are the MAN". and it certainly stands true. John :D :D :D :D

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:25 am
by flatpicker
Congrats CL! Great pictures. Time to sling a little bait at'um now :wink:

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:02 am
by Cracker Larry
Wow, I don't know what to say. Thanks again to all of you :!: Without this forum and all of your help, and let's not forget Jacques' great design, we could not of done this in 100 years. It's this entire group who built this boat, not just me. So thanks again. I'm sure your boats will turn out just as nice 8)
Quote:
So I go park the truck and come back and take this picture, and I'm thinking she's down by the bow Further investigation revealed the mate forgot to put in the anchor locker drain plug


Couple of questions... Is the drain below the water line when she's empty (your mate is lighter than mine), and if so, by how much? Did you have a full 40 gallons in the tank forward? More importantly, were you able to pull the plug and drain it while up on a plane? All my drains are pretty much where your's are so was real anxious to see where your boat (i.e. the sole) sits with the extra weight you have. How about the scuppers?
Craig, yes the anchor locker drain is above the waterline when the boat is empty. The first thing Dori did was stand on the bow deck to get her bags packed, that's what flooded the locker.

I did not have a full tank of fuel, I started with 24 gallons since I have to pre mix oil for the first 10 hours. I was wanting a 200 mile minimum range with 40 gallons, but it looks like I'll probably have 400 miles. It only burned 8 gallons in 100 miles 8)

I am also carrying 2 anchors, chains and 500' of 3/4 line in the anchor lockers. It's a heavy load. I might move one of those anchors.

The cockpit drains are well above the water with the boat empty, and barely above the water with Dori at the helm, as you can see in this photo..

Image

With me at the helm, the cockpit drains are below the water. I didn't try pulling the plugs when running, will try that on the next trip, but they have to stay in with the boat at idle or I get wet feet. I'm real glad I kept these pluggable :wink:

I did pull the transom drain while it was running and the water drains freely from there when planing. I'm not sure if you get the same venturi effect with the side drains, I'll have to test that.

The fishfinder transducer works well, I'm glad for that, although we never saw water over 40' deep. And the baitwell also works as planned. The 500 gallon pump seems just right.

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:23 am
by Dog Fish
Only 8 gals in 100miles, that's great and should increase a little after break in and some hours on it. I was interested in that since I want to use that same motor on a XF20. Sweet :!:

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:32 am
by colonialc19
Larry,
I see you got Bill Dance in the background of that last photo :lol:

Great to see her floatn', sounds like you have more than you hoped for in the way of fuel range, thats great 100 miles 8 gal 8) .

500' of line 8O, well it doesn't suprise me with you, your gonna be prepared for everything and anything, which is the way we all should be :D

I sure do hope you build another boat, your thread has been a great tutorial for myself, and I'm sure many others.

Daniel

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:42 am
by Cracker Larry
I've got an issue with the tachometer that I've got to resolve. I think it's just a bad tach.

I made a couple of speed tests in the lake with no current, the max speed I could get was 32.8 mph. Hard to run in this skinny water and take photos,

Image

But the max RPM on the tach was only 3400..

Image

My first instinct was that the tach isn't set right. It has switches for setting the pulses based on the number of alternator poles. But I've verified that a 70 yam has a 6 pole alternator and the tach should be set to 3 pulses, which is right.

I know the engine is running higher than 3400, but I don't think it's running over 5000, just judging by ear and experience. I ran it up on the hose yesterday and even with no load the tach won't go past 3400. Further study of the documentation tells me that the tach should read zero with no power, and any other reading indicates a bad tachometer. Mine reads 800 with no power, so I guess I have a bad tach.

And I think I've got too much pitch, but I can't verify that without a good tach.

Can't we work the prop formulas backwards? If we know the speed 33 and the pitch 18 can we determine what RPM it has to be running?

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:52 am
by hwsiii
Were you able to get a feel for speed and RPM.


H

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:56 am
by Cracker Larry
Were you able to get a feel for speed and RPM.
:doh: :lol:

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:00 am
by hwsiii
I must hyave posted at the same time
I am working formmlas now
Butr hard to do without correwct tach reading


What are top RPMS for that motor
H
|

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Just funnin, H :wink:

top RPMs are 6,000

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:16 am
by TomW
Larry I come up with 5052rpm's, 2.33 gear ratio, 18 pitch, prop slip of 8, speed of 33. The prop slip of 8 assumes a factory stainless prop and not a higher performance prop.

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:18 am
by TomW
Dupe

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:36 am
by hwsiii
Tom you and I come up almost right together. Speed of 33 at 5000 with 18 pitch and gear ratio of 2.33 with 9% Slip.

Speed RPM Pitch Gear Ratio Ratio Pitch Ratio Slip
33 5000 18 2.33 1056 2460.48 0.0073 0.9

I also still show a 17 pitch at 37 MPH running right at 6000 RPM's. By using this prop it leaves you plenty of room for extra weight and more people with you still staying in the higher end of the manufacturers recommended RPM's. LOL

H

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:47 am
by gk108
If you can verify 0 volts on the sensor wire with the 800 RPM reading, then it about has to be a bad tach.

32 knots is pretty dang respectable. 100 miles on 8 gallons is too. The fairing job pays off from here on out. 8)

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:02 am
by Cracker Larry
Tom and H, thanks for running those numbers. That's what I came up with and that's what my instinct is telling me she's running, 5000 rpm.
I also still show a 17 pitch at 37 MPH running right at 6000 RPM's.
Doesn't seem to me like a 1" pitch difference would produce another 1,000 rpms? I'm thinking I need something closer to a 13, following the rule of 200 rpm per inch of pitch.

Just ordered a new tach.
32 knots is pretty dang respectable.
That's MPH, not knots. Yes it is, feels fast too! But I think if I get her propped right she'll top out in the high 30s. I'd like to see a cruise speed of about 28-30.

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:09 am
by TomW
H, I agree my calcs show a 17 pitch giving Larry 37-38mph at 6000rpm's. But, that throws out the old standard rule of 1" of pitch down increases rpm by 200, which is usually pretty accurate also and I don't believe a 13 being correct either.

Larry let's get your Tach fixed and get some real world numbers and then go from there before switching blades. You will almost certainly need to go down but how much is the question.

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:13 am
by Cracker Larry
I agree. Need good tach readings before we start changing wheels. Thanks again for the input :D

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:27 am
by hwsiii
Larry, these are my calculations and I know they don't match the normal rule of thumb. But I do think they are right. Tom is right, lets get the new tach and get some real RPM's before changing props. I believe there is a possibility of moving the motor up a couple of notches and still reaching the full RPM's of 6,000 with the 17" pitch. Just my thoughts.

Image

Image


H

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:35 pm
by TomW
H, moving Larry's motor up may get into ventilation territory. The draft on the OD is only 5" and while he built it heavy and his may be 6" or a little more he won't have a lot of leeway. It's flat bottomed not v'd so that give's a little less leeway also.

Larry what did your draft end up at anyway, just curious. :D

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:32 pm
by donk
Congrats Larry. That is one awesome boat. Sure enjoyed watching it being built.

don

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for those numbers, H. We've got a new tach on the way, so hopefully we'll get it figured out by the end of the week.

Tom, the draft is 6", it's just shy of my graphite line which is 6 1/2 at the transom. I've got the motor plate set an inch above flush already. No ventillation at all now, it seems perfect, but I don't think I could raise it any more without problems.

Don thank you for watching, and commenting :D

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:44 pm
by stickystuff
Thumbs up ol man. Looks fantastic. See ya in april.

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:53 pm
by TomW
Larry we are thinking alike then. My guestimate of 6" was right on and raising the engine any more will probably get into ventilation problems, especially now that I know you already have it raised an inch.

That wake looked so pretty in the pictures everything is probably set right, we just need to find the right pitch size, prop will still be 13 1/4, so we won't be changing ventilation chances.

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:06 pm
by hwsiii
Larry when you get a chance, can you get the model number off the prop, maybe we can find out exactly how much cup, rake, skew and see if it is progressive pitch so we will have a better idea of exactly what you have.


H

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:13 pm
by cedarock
Man...she looks sweet on the water. Great looking boat!

:doh: Just wondering....when you decrease in pitch, wouldn't the slip factor be reduced by the prop not having to push as hard (using the same style of prop)?

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:26 pm
by Messman
Wanted to say congrats on splashing your baby. While I am more of a lurker right now, I have been following your build since I have been on here. Your build has given me alot of insight for when I actually start building my own boat. Again congrats and thank you for providing a very detailed, shall we call it a, building log.

Chris

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry when you get a chance, can you get the model number off the prop
OK the prop is a Yamaha 13.25X18. Part number is MARGYT3BV418. Sounds to me like it's made for a V4.
Thumbs up ol man. Looks fantastic. See ya in april.
Thanks Ken! Looking forward to it.
thank you for providing a very detailed, shall we call it a, building log.


Thanks Chris, good name :lol: I don't blog.
Man...she looks sweet on the water.
Thanks to you too CR. I need to get some pictures of her running.

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:51 pm
by TomW
cedarock, slip changes very little in the same style of prop when you just change pitch. Now if you start changing cup and diameter then you have to take it into consideration.

Tom

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:27 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, when we finally see what your actual RPM's are I still think the 17" pitch is the right one. What you purchased was an aggresive prop called the Performance. Here is Yamaha's notes on this.

13 1/4x18 Series K--MAR-GYT3B-V4-18
Performance 3 Blade Propellers These polished steel propellers are designed to provide boaters an additional option between Painted Stainless Steel Series and more expensive Pro and Saltwater Series propellers. A number of specialty boats will perform better with these specialized propellers. These propellers are generally more aggressive than the Painted Stainless Steel propellers, so pick a pitch size one inch lower. What you actually got was a prop that was 1" MORE pitch which theoretically shaved of about 500 RPM's.

I believe this is the prop you need, 13x17 Painted Stainless Steel model number 688-45930-02-98. Besides losing 1 inch of pitch you are also losing a quarter inch of diameter, which going by the rule of thumb means we ought to gain about 750 RPM's. We get about 300 RPM's gain from changing to a 17" from the 18".

New RPMs Old RPMs Old PITCH New PITCH

5,294 5,000 18 17

Then we gain about another 250 RPM's from 13.25" diameter to a 13" diameter. And probably another 200 from the change from the performance to the painted stainless. After we see what RPM's you are actually turning then we should have a better idea. But this is my theory on the right prop at this time.
If it really is running about 5000 RPM's right now, this should bring it up to about 5,750.



H

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:13 pm
by cape man
Larry,

Thanks for posting the details on where she floats. I think I'm coming in a little lighter than you, but it will be close. Haven'y drilled anything for the scuppers yet but now will make sure they are "pluggable".

Love the report on the mileage! :lol: :lol: With a 40hp 4S, I should get a little better, so with my 29 gallon tank, that trip to Bimini some day looks possible. Wish I could make CR, but it doesn't look like the boat will be done anyway.

As others have said, besides the great job you did building her, thanks for helping us all out with all the posts. I still want to see some blood on that deck!

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:35 pm
by TomW
Larry the other option given H's numbers is stay with the same prop but drop down to a 15 in pitch. That would be my preference as the extra cupping would hold the water better helping reduce any chance of ventilation in hi speed turns. It will also give you better overall performance. But again let's wait and see what your tach is telling us in actual numbers.

Tom

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:31 pm
by steve292
I've been away,hence the late congratulations. very nice boat 8) here's hoping you enjoy it :D
Steve

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Steve. Your's is looking nice also. We're already enjoying it.

I got the tachometer problem resolved this morning, :D With a new tach to replace the old new tach :?

My son and I took her out again for a few hours and did some more testing. Trimmed up and wide open she's turning exactly 4700 RPM and 32 mph. At 4000 RPM we get 26 mph. It needs about 21 mph to plane off.

We guessed RPMs pretty close, what do the prop wizards think I should resize to? We were light loaded, so I need to gain 1,000-1,200 RPM.

After we made some runs, we went poking around the swamps hoping to find a wild hog, no luck but the swamps were pretty today. I'll be glad when they green up again. This boat will get in some real skinny water 8)

Image

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:12 pm
by peter-curacao
Men you showed her (No Excuse) already some beautiful places, you live in a real nice area, beautiful landscape Image

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Peter, this is our home swamp. On the next trip we're going to introduce her to salt water :lol:

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:20 pm
by TomW
4700, 32, I was afraid that was what you were going to get when I saw what prop you had. In effect you have a 19 pitch prop with the cupping which equates to the 4700 rpm's. Putting it into the formula confirms this.

Now what to recommend the formula is saying 16 with that prop to hit 38 mph. But that only raises rpms 400 by the 200 per inch formula which is almost always right. Something is not adding up right now. Is your engine reaching full power during the break-in period with the extra oil. I assume it is.

To raise the rpm's to 5700 we need to drop that prop to 13 pitch and the formula gives a speed of only 28 for it. Something is very out of wack as both Crouch and Stravinsky show you should reach 38-40 at 2000 lbs with the 70 less the T-top.

I'm pulling what hair out I have left right now. I'll keep at it and see what is going on. Hopefully I'll find the discrepancy. Or H will.

Tom

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
These stitch and glue boats don't follow the charts very well. I ran into the same thing propping my 16. :doh:

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:43 pm
by TomW
Larry my gut feel would be go with a 14 of the prop you have now and see how that works. That would be an effective 15 with the cupping. As long as the dealer is willing is to work with you. I like the idea of the cupping as it holds the water and performs better.

Tom

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes that's what I was thinking. I can get this same prop in a 14 and the dealer will work with me, as long as I don't bend it.

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:48 pm
by TomW
Great :D :D

Tom

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:05 pm
by cedarock
I can get this same prop in a 14 and the dealer will work with me, as long as I don't bend it.
I wish that is what I would have done! According to the 200 rpm per inch rule, you will need at least the 14. But, that just seems light to me.

Though, like I said earlier...I am not the one to give advice about prop selection! :)

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
In my experience, it's more black magic and trial and error, than it is science and numbers. They only way I've ever got the right prop on a boat was by trying several different sizes. But I'm wide open to suggestions for my next try :D

They're real proud of SS props nowadays, have yall priced these things 8O

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:07 pm
by cedarock
They are ridiculously priced! I have one on the suzuki and not quite sure that I am totally satisfied. :(

I just checked the prop that I used on the hm with the short lived 60 2stroke johnson. The 17" was a little too much pitch so I bought a hustler aluminum 13 3/4 X 15 for it. I remember it pushing the boat a little over 30 mph and was in the mid high rpm range. The hustler had some cupping but I doubt that it is as aggressive as yours plus it is aluminum vs. ss.

That is one beautiful swamp. Reminds me of the creeks off of the Roanoke River in eastern NC.

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:36 pm
by Aripeka Angler
For what it's worth I called Powertech last week and tried to get a smaller diameter prop for my Yamaha 70. I am running a 12 pitch four blade triple cupped prop. The tech said I didn't need to go that route. Since the 12 pitch was the least pitch they offered he said I needed to reduce the cup by 50% I am going to drop mine off at Admiral prop their local dealer and get them to recup the prop. I get the feeling that these aggressive props change the coventional rules of prop selection.

I would try a 15 next. Just a gut feeling.

Have you had a chance to see if the LORAN sensor still works :?:

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:43 am
by Fonda@kauai
It's really good. Just needs a little salt :wink:

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:55 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the input Richard, a 15 might be the way to go. I'll see what the dealer thinks, and see what they have in stock.

Haven't tried the LORAN yet, I need to pick up a whip antenna. I did open it up and look at it. Thanks for copying the manual :!: I'm going to need that. I'm wondering if this Raynav unit can accept the GPS signal from my Hummingbird, I've got a spare NMEA output. Something else to figure out. Thanks again :D
That is one beautiful swamp. Reminds me of the creeks off of the Roanoke River in eastern NC.
It is beautiful, in a primordial sort of way. Dori and I took a boat thru the Great Dismal Swamp in NC once, it was very similar.

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:57 am
by TomW
Richard your right on cupping. My formula includes for each degree of cup adds one inch of pitch. So it does have a high degree of effect. Your triple cup is cutting your rpm's by 600 rpm's from no cup.

Tom

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:14 am
by smilinmatt
Don't put too much faith in the 1" per 200 rpms. That was started by bass boat guys tweaking their props, and it should be left with bass boat guys tweaking their props. For example, going from a 24 to a 25 pitch at 5000 rpms (24/25 * 5000) is a 200 rpm drop. But going from a 16 to a 17 at 5000 rpms is over a 300 rpm drop.

Right now you're too far off max rpms to use a "rule of thumb" formula. Assuming you're sticking with the same style prop, 4700/6000*18 = 14.1. That doesn't take into account the difference in engine performance at 4700 rpms vs 6000 rpms (you might be looking at a 20 hp difference). I think you'll find the right prop to be either a 15 or 16 pitch, depending on whether you'll typically run lightly loaded (16) or heavy (15).

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:17 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for that input Matt :D Your thinking falls in line with mine.

That OB sure is looking good!

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:30 am
by TomW
Larry, what Matt said is right one old prop guy I knew used 150 to 300 depending on the prop he was working with as a sort of guide. I'd forgotton all about him till Matt reminded me, to caught up with the modern rule. :lol: So general guidelines are just that. Go with the 15 and we'll cross our fingers and hope it's right, if not we'll try again. :D

Tom

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, I just got back from the prop shop. They talked me into a 16" of the same model. They're thinking is the engine is still real tight and I'm still running double oil so I'll pick up 3 or 400 RPMs when the engine is broke in, and this prop will give about 500 more. We'll see. They've got more props if this doesn't work :lol: This model only comes in even pitch sizes.

Think I'll go splash her again.

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:22 pm
by topwater
Hope you you get the prop straighted out .
Striper fishing should be heating up off the Georgia coast
right about now.

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:37 pm
by hwsiii
This is my perception of where you are at now Larry, and the different options you have if you are going to use the Yamaha props. Tom this is the formula I use for pitch changes, in my opinion it is correct.

This is the formula for Pitch changes New RPM = Old RPM * (Old PitchNew Pitch)

If you stay with the same Performance series prop and change to a 16â€

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:28 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Better late than never - Congrats on the successful splash Larry, Lord knows you deserved it. Mrs. Cracker certainly seems to have taken a shine to her... :wink:

Been away from the Net for a week or so. Sounds like you've got a lot of help with your propping. It would be interesting to know what No Excuse weighs just to help muddle things up even more :doh:

I know than when I added my windshield, two downriggers, and 40 lbs worth of balls, I lost 2-3 knots off my top end. These small boats are a lot more sensitive to weight than most of us imagine.

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks LL, I appreciate it.
Mrs. Cracker certainly seems to have taken a shine to her...


She does shine things up!
It would be interesting to know what No Excuse weighs just to help muddle things up even more


She's exactly 1,393 lbs with almost all gear, anchors, tools, life jackets and 24 gallons of fuel. Everything except beer, ice, people and fishing tackle. People, beer, ice and heavy coats = <400 lbs. Call it 1,800 lbs. gross for these tests. I've lost 60 lbs in fuel since I've started.

H, thanks for running those numbers. I didn't get out this afternoon but will in the morning. I'll be interested to see how the numbers match your projections with the 16. If you are right, the Performance prop will give me worse performance than the non-performance prop. Glad I paid extra for that feature. :doh Your figures and reasoning seem reasonable, we'll know real soon. Thanks again, I know it's a pain.
Striper fishing should be heating up off the Georgia coast
I've never done much striper fishing, like tarpon, most of the one's I've caught are accidental. I don't think I've ever targeted them.
and 40 lbs worth of balls, I lost 2-3 knots off my top end.
Louis, if I had 40 lb. balls I'd lose something off my top end too 8O

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:02 pm
by hwsiii
LOL, I see at the end I was putting the Pitch before diameter. I was just working with the pitch so much it became the IMPORTANT factor, Sorry.

Yamaha says your motor should run between 5,000 and 6,000 RPMs, so you will not be loading the motor up, even when you have more weight in the boat, as you certainly will at times.
Yamaha does have a 13 1/2â€

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks again H. We'll know the numbers on the 16 tomorrow, if I need to I'll go get a 17 painted SS and try it too. With everything I've been through to build No Excuse right, we aren't going to settle for a prop that isn't right either :lol: My dealer is great, as long as I don't bust them I can try them all.

One thing about your figures, it doesn't look like your numbers take into account a tight engine and double oil. If that amounts to an added 3-400 rpm after break-in, it may make the 16 more beneficial.

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:17 pm
by hwsiii
You are absolutely right Larry. I don't have any numbers for that. I have no idea how much it can change. But if you will look again you will see that the 13" x 17" painted steel produces more RPMs at any throttle setting because the painted stainless is only a 13" diameter and produces 5,581 RPMs at this time, and the performance is 13 1/4" x 17" diameter and only produces 5,253 RPMs at this time. The extra RPMs come from the difference in Diameter. IF my NUMBERS are correct, and I believe they are close.
This is the model number for the painted steel. 13 17 Painted Stainless Steel 688-45930-02-98
What I have said above may not be true, if the extra 1" gain in pitch that Yamaha says is the difference, comes from the difference in diameter, but I do not believe that is the case.


H :doh:

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hmmmm....
This is the model number for the painted steel. 13 17 Painted Stainless Steel 688-45930-02-98
I'm very impressed by your confidence 8) If the dealer doesn't have this prop in stock, I'll have them order it in the morning. And we'll find out. I don't screw around with No Excuse :wink:

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:04 am
by Oceola
Larry,

You guys are way over my head on this topic. And, you've probably thought of custom work on a prop and have someone who can do it.
But for what it's worth here is a link to the best custom prop guys here on the Texas coast, used by all the guides, bass and bay fisherman. There is a place you can click on to ask questions.
Again, the boat looks great...can't wait to see a hog streched out on the fordeck.

Frank

http://www.baumannprops.com/

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:14 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Frank. If I can't get satisfaction I'll give them a call :D

Sam and I are heading out to test this 16".

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:58 pm
by TomW
Larry, H have finally had a chance to go over your numbers and here are my thoughts. Going down in diameter reduces the amount of water pushed increasing the rpms thus allowing the extra inch in pitch over the 16", I feel that it should increase boat speed over the 16" also, whether to the extent of H's numbers I'm not sure mine came out a little lower by a couple of MPH's. I guess we will see.

Larry see if you can find out how much cupping is on your present prop. I'm using just 1 cup now if it a 2 cup it will throw both H's and my figure's off.

Hope things go well this morning! :D

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, we're back from the river again. Sam and I did a thorough testing of this 16 and it was disappointing :( We put another 12 gallons of gas, plus Sam, to allow for not having passenger weight. Trying to keep the loading consistent.

It performed almost exactly on H's numbers 8) I'm impressed with the calculations H :!:

3500 - 18.8 MPH planing point
4000- 24.1
4500- 28.0
5050- 31.5

Could not turn it up over 5050. So I only gained about 350 rpm and nothing in top speed :doh: Back to the prop shop.

On the other hand, it was a beautiful day, 70 degrees. Lots of gators out sunning. We have to be real careful with dogs in here.

Sam is enjoying his boat :D ...

Image

Image

Image

He's very pleased. He says we done good :lol:

Image

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:26 pm
by TomW
Bummer Larry, at least Sam was happy! :D Guess the painted SS is the next try. You've about reached ten hours by now to go off the extra oil haven't you. That should help also.

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm thinking of trying a painted 15 :?:

H, would you mind running the numbers on the 17 vs 15 in the painted SS model.

I just heard it is supposed to snow here on Sunday 8O

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:33 pm
by tech_support
Cracker Larry wrote: I just heard it is supposed to snow here on Sunday 8O
Thats just not right :? Lets hope that changes :)

Larry,

I dont think I have offered a formal congratulation on the launch. I will admit to visiting computer more than several times last weekend to check for your launch update :)

Congratulations.

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Joel. I really appreciate all your help along the way :D

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:30 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry, Sam is a real ham and knows how to pose. :!: He is such a good looking Boy. There is a point at witch they are no longer a dog, they become your little girl or boy and best friend. I have a chocolate Lab named Baily, she thinks she is human for sure. Beautiful pictures. :)

Brian

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Brian. Sam is my best friend 8) I wish I could be as good as he thinks I am :lol:

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:36 pm
by Dog Fish
I hear ya :!:

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:44 pm
by hwsiii
Larry what I do not like is that the RPMs did not go up the way they should have, that is not good. This is a black art, but there are mathematical changes in Pitch that should NOT vary that much from my predictions, because there is NO change in Diameter. The changes in RPM and SPEED should have a mathematical correlation between the same props in a particular design. There is approximately a 40% change between what the prop should turn mathematically in RPM’s and what it is actually turning. That is not the case here, and the only factor I can come up with is that the cup is applied in a different manner or ratio between the 18â€

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:09 pm
by TomW
H, I agree you want to definately be in the upper level of the operating range. I would love for Larry to be running 5700 - 6000 with just him and Sam in the boat. I'm like you scratching my head and ponderin' and have not been saying much cause I'm stumped. Like you the 16 should have increased rpm's more than it did. :doh: Even with the new motor we should be seeing rpm's aroung 5500 with a tight motor and the proper prop.

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
H, thanks again for all your input. I agree, it doesn't make sense to me either. Except maybe double oil and a tight engine is keeping it from turning up? I also think it should be able to run in the upper end of it's rpm range.

The model number is 70TLR

Here is your chart, thanks for that. If it's as accurate at the 16" figures, we don't want that one, do we.

Image

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:16 pm
by TomW
No Larry we are losing to much Pitch now. Since pitch is the forward movement of the prop through the water per 1 turn

Tom.

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:19 pm
by hwsiii
No we Don't, you are right. When I reach Yamaha I will find out all the information I need.



H

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks again for your time, both of you :D

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:02 pm
by TomW
Larry, H, took some time and went to Mercury's prop site and worked backwards from there to see what I would come up with for No Excuse. First there props are all smaller diameters in the range we are looking at, as low as 12 3/4". There comparable motor is there 75HP 2 stroke that is no longer in production it is also a 2.33 so that didn't change.

After getting some numbers from that combination based on your 1800lbs Larry I then ran it back through the formulas to get to comparables to the 17" painted SS and the 70 HP.

Selecting a comparable boat to Larry's and then inputting the numbers they came up with props that would give 5000rpm, 21.5 pitch, 39 mph.

My first adjustment was to 5800 rpm's which changed the pitch to 18.5. H, I think we are not considering gear ratio here also as this is a higher gear ratio and will affect the amount of rpm's with each inch of pitch more than a lower gear ratio will. So 250 or 300 rpm's an inch may be a more realistic number.

The second was from the 75 to 70HP this reduced speed by 1.5 mph in the Crouch and the Stavitsky formulas.

So we have 1800 lbs 37.5 mph 5800 rpms, 18.5 pitch, 12 3/4' prop.

Converting to H's 13" prop calculations and the Yamaha prop we get:

13" -250 rpm's
17" +250 rpm's or more.

It looks like the Calc's agree and are on target Larry and the 13-17" should be the one. Again all speeds do not reflect the T-top.

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:07 pm
by stickystuff
Lary, Get ahold of Jeff Whidden at Power Tech props in Louisiana. Tell him I told you to call him. Send him some good full pictures of the hull and bottom if you have them. they are very thorough and know their stuff. Explain all the diff RPM and speed youare getting. I guarantee you they will solve yourproblem. good people.They know me by 2 BY 2 custom skiffs. That is what my account is set up at. Just tell him I am the one in Ocala that builds custom skiffs. Will try and find the number or just go on line to their site and you can get it.
www.powertech.com I think thats it.

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:00 pm
by TomW
Larry and Ken it is www.ptprop.com Larry they have a worksheet you can fill out to get some help if you want to.

Tom

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:07 am
by hwsiii
OK Gentlemen, I designed a totally new formula for conceptualizing the RPMs and speed, that takes into account any Gear Ratio that we need. It can't get any more exact than this that I know of, if somebody has a better way, please let me know.


Image

By using this new Formula I found out that we ought to get a minimum of about 5,300 RPMs and probably more.

Image

If we get the 13" x 17" painted stainless prop and we get another 300 RPMs after the motor is broken in we ought to have a speed of about 34 or 35 MPH and RPMs of about 5,600. Hope this helps Larry.


H

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:51 am
by Cracker Larry
Hope this helps Larry.


H
It certainly does help, H. I've got the 13X17 on the way. If I can get close to those numbers, I'll be satisfied.

It may be that Yamaha just doesn't make the perfect prop for this setup, but I've already bought and paid for a Yamaha prop and that's all my dealer carries. I'm going to need a spare anyway, so if I'm not real happy with the 17, I'll get a custom.
Lary, Get ahold of Jeff Whidden at Power Tech props in Louisiana.
I'll do that Ken. We're going to try one more and if it doesn't work satisfactorily, it will be a spare and I'll have one custom made.

Thanks again yall! this has been another educational experience 8)

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:31 am
by Spokaloo
Since you two have been working so hard on these prop numbers, maybe H will develop an excel spreadsheet that contains his formula and make it available to the greater Bateau experience.

E

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:12 pm
by hwsiii
E, I have no problems sharing , that is what this whole forum is based on. I am doing everything I can to learn everyday from all of the people posting the Good and the Bad here. Some of the time it seems you learn the most important things from other peoples mistakes.
If you just tell me what to do I will be more than happy to post them.


H

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:24 pm
by Spokaloo
What software are you putting the numbers through?

Have you built an excel spreadsheet?

E

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:49 pm
by hwsiii
It is two Excel Spreadsheets, but this doesn't do the same calculations as Crouch and Savitsky. It does not take into account weight, boat length or horse power. I just built it for Larry's boat to try and get some exact correlations between trying different props on his boat to find the right one.
It's only function is to clarify which prop is best for any particular boat taking into account the differences between props. You need to use this spreadsheet in conjunction with another sheet of paper that you write all of the pertinent information about what the boat actually does on test runs. I have this also.
You need to have some knowledge about propellers in order to get the full benefit from this. When you change from one particular model of propeller to another you have to understand the differences between the two so you can input the correct data in order to receive the corollary information. But if you just use it for one model of prop on one boat you will find it can tell you what pitch you need for that boat, without having any knowledge about propellers.


H

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:55 pm
by Spokaloo
Hm maybe a combination of a savitsky calculator on one xls and a basic prop calc on another xls. I think best case is to do a series of parallel prop numbers, find the mean, write the equation around the mean results, and call it a "basic" calc.

E

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:18 pm
by hwsiii
It doesn't work that way E, not for jumping between different models of props, even from the same manufacturer. Because of the dramatic differences between each model of propeller, I will give you a few examples of some of the different qualities that are be built into propellers for a specific design capability.
Let's start with pitch, everybody knows about propeller pitch. What everybody doesn't know is that there are three different types of pitch. Progressive means that the pitch can be as much as 4" to 6" difference between the leading edge and the trailing edge, the pitch number they put on the prop is just the AVERAGE pitch between high and low pitches. This is the most common prop sold in stainless steel, these props have a higher pitch on the trailing edge of the prop for speed and a lower pitch on the leading edge for hole shot. This prop can be 22" on the trailing edge and 16" on the leading edge, yet the average between the two numbers is 19", so it is designated as a 19" prop and 75% of the people buying it have no idea that it has all of these different pitches on each blade. And there is also straight pitch and regressive pitch. Regressive pitch props have a higher pitch on the leading edge than on the trailing edge, this is used to create drag on the prop for a better hole shot. But this prop is not very common at all.
Now lets talk about cup, most everybody knows that cup theoretically increases pitch on a propeller when it is used. When cup is used on the tip of the blades it increases speed and bow lift as well as rake on a prop. Yet when the same cup is designed into the trailing edge it increases hole shot and stern lift. There is no industry wide standard for cup, what is one manufacturers heavy cup can be another ones medium. About 25 years ago the Navy tried implementing a standard for cup on all their propellers and it appears to have worked pretty good. In the last 12 years another company tried to put forth a standard for cupping, so that everybody could correlate their prop cups between their own models and the rest of the industry, But that has not happened as of this time. Cup also helps a tremendous amount with ventilation and cavitation.
How about rake, there are three different types of rake as well, what is mostly used in the industry is of course progressive rake. Rake can increase bow lift, speed and increases the holding power of a propeller in rough seas. Rake is usually about 15 degrees but can be as much as 30 degrees. You can also increase the rake of a prop by cupping it in the correct place.
And each and every prop designed can have these elements incorporated into them at different levels and degrees. So they do not function as any individual property designed into them, but as an amalgamation of all of these properties blended together.
And people wonder why finding the correct prop for a particular boat and motor combination is considered to be a BLACK ART.

But one of the biggest questions that needs to asked when people buy their propeller is what is the EFFICIENCY rating for that particular prop, and I would venture to say that this question is NOT asked in 95% of all cases, as most people don't even know there is such a designation, and this includes most dealers.


H

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:34 pm
by TomW
Eric a basic prop calc can get someone close but then you have to start taking things like cupping and rake into the equation to really get to a proper pitch. Each adds to the legth of time the water is held to the prop and in effect slow the prop rpm's just like adding pitch does. Also each motor has a different diameter prop designed for it by the Mfg. and if you change that in your calcs you have to take that into account.

I also think Savitsky is to complicated for common use which is why Jacque gave the Crouch formula in the other post. It has been in use for a long time and gets close enough for most needs. Since I started using Savitsky along with Crouch there has been .5 - 1 mph difference in the two, granted my Savitsky numbers aren't off the detail of Jacques computer generated ones.

Tom

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:38 pm
by Spokaloo
Tom, Im aware of the many prop variants. Between offshore boats, tournament bass boats, work vessels, pleasure boats, surface drives, and displacement cruisers, I have seen some different props and understand how they are all functionally different (and thats just the boats on my street!)

Hw put it clearly that a calc couldn't produce a decent mean result. Generally a statistical mean can be put together within +- 5%. In this case it cant.

E

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:40 pm
by TomW
Eric I know you have that knowledge I was just trying to explain to those others who are following along the complexities, that come into the calculations. It would be nice if such a mean could be done, but like H said it can't.

Tom

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:51 pm
by hwsiii
Tom, I do have the extended version of Savitsky if you would like it, but I am like you I don't use it, because unless you have a computer generated program to load all of the data with in my opinion it is wayyy too detailed and the results aren't worth the tremendous extra effort.


H

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:56 pm
by hwsiii
E, I agree with you, because if I thought it was a reasonable project I would have tried it years ago. I guarantee you if you could, you would be able to sell it for $ 9.95 at least 25 times a day 365 days a year. LOL


H

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:02 pm
by TomW
H, I have the Savitsky calculations but thanks for checking. :D

Tom

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'll delegate myself as tester :lol: I know when it's right and when it's not, but I'm glad there are folks like yall who enjoy the numbers. Maybe we can all learn a little bit 8)

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:19 pm
by hwsiii
I have never stopped learning, since the day I was born Larry, and I am quickly heading towards 62 years old. I just have a muchhh harder time retaining information.You can neverrr attain too much knowledge. I just wish I had the Wisdom to go with it. CRS LOL :help:

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:05 pm
by TomW
Larry, H have always liked numbers, but have liked learning more. That is one thing I like about this forum, not just the boats. The diverse knowledge and life experiences of everyone brings something new about every day.

Tom

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:19 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, before this is over we will get you propped RIGHT. Between Tom and I it is an absolute certainty. Like I told you before Larry, I wish I had the ability to pass a surveyor's test, if I did I would certainly go get my certificate.


H :D

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, before this is over we will get you propped RIGHT. Between Tom and I it is an absolute certainty.
I sure appreciate the efforts and I do admire confidence.

Don't discount me either :lol: I won't quit until she is right. I guarantee that she'll be right, it's just a matter of time and persistance. I might not be good at the formulas but I can sure keep swapping and running them until she's as good as she can be. You've probably never met anyone more stubborn than I :wink:

The 13X17 should be here Tuesday 8) I doubt it's perfect but if it comes close to your numbers it will be perfectly functional. From there we'll start looking at some options other than Yamaha. As we gather data we get closer and closer.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:07 pm
by TomW
Larry also don't forget the Discount Dan's site I gave you for Stiletto and TurboProp. I know JimW loves his Stiletto on his Yamaha 115 4St. They can also help on getting a good prop once we have something that is working half way decently. What I would suggest is that we wait till we get the engine off the extra oil and 30 hours(which should take you a week :P ) on it till we try to get you a GOOD primary prop.

Tom

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:36 pm
by JohnC
Hey Larry,
I've been asleep too, NO EXCUSE looks wonderful on the water! I'm really impressed with 12MPG and you're still looking for the right prop... Looks like Mrs. Cracker and Sam have taken over, guess you'll have to build another one! :D
John

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:46 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, I know Mr. Tenacious, I think Tom and I are exactly the same as you. If you will send me your email address I will semd you an empty Prop Test results Sheet, if you can fill it out when you take the boat out for testing I would appreciate it. This will let us get a better feel for how the prop is reacting with different loads and different RPMs. It will help us decide the right combination of features in the prop we need. Also if you could just get someone to take a couple of pictures of the anti ventilation plate as you are running wide open it will us help ensure that the motor is as high as it can go, that normally adds a couple of hundred RPMs to WOT. But certainly don't try it by yourself, I don't want that on my conscience. And I agree with you Tom, about we don't need to make a full decision until we know the engine is broken in and no more double oil. LOL


H :doh:

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:32 pm
by kdog
Larry, I have the same 70hp Yamaha as you do but on the OB17 and I had great results switching to a Stiletto Bay Pro prop 13.25" x 15". I started off using an aluminum 13.25" x 17" Turning Point prop and could not break 5000 rpms and a top speed of 35. After going to the stainless and down from 17 to 15 pitch I am hitting 5700 rpm and my top speed actually went up to 41 mph. I could probably up the rpm's if I got rid of my porpoising problem and I still have 2 holes to move the motor up.

I know we have different boats but just throwing it out there as an option albeit an expensive one to try the Stiletto. The problem is you really can't test and return em if you need a different size. After using the Crouch formula I kept coming up with a 19" pitch but that seemed a good deal off compared to the real world.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:48 am
by TomW
kdog, now you've gone and done it gone and thrown a hole new bag of worms into the mix. The Bay Pro is a 4blade wheel which we have not even started to discuss yet. There are places that will work with you on a change or two with the Stiletto's and the factory will take them back also if you ask nice. But we have more work to do before facing that can of worms

Really appreciate you giving us your numbers, unfortunately do to boat shape and hull configuration they may not help us much.

Tom

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:42 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry, I have the same 70hp Yamaha as you do but on the OB17 and I had great results switching to a Stiletto Bay Pro prop 13.25" x 15".
That's interesting Kdog! Thanks. Those are the kind of numbers I was hoping for. I'd think a flat bottom boat would push easier than your V hull. Size and weight should be similar between boats? The more I learn the less I know :doh:
If you will send me your email address I will semd you an empty Prop Test results Sheet, if you can fill it out when you take the boat out for testing I would appreciate it. This will let us get a better feel for how the prop is reacting with different loads and different RPMs. It will help us decide the right combination of features in the prop we need
I appreciate your help! Email to Lteuton at aol dot com.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:39 am
by TomW
Larry with your shallow draft and going offshore the Bay Pro 4 blade would be an excellent choice for you. Dan's have a 13 1/4 - 16" Stiletto in stock for $315, iboats for $411. You might even be able to go up a hole with a 4 blade. But as before let's find a decent Yamaha blade after the oil and a few hours before we go after a permanent primary wheel.

I plan on running 4 blades. They have a couple of distinct advantages, maintaining steering is easier it reduces torque steer, more importantly they are better in heavier seas than a 3 blade, holding more water and again helping maintain steering. They are also usually slightly better in mid-range effiecency fuel economy.

Tom

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:51 pm
by kdog
The prop I have is the Stiletto Advantage I (3 blade) not the Bay Pro, sorry to add to the confusion. :oops: I don't know why I thought it was that but it's definitely the 3 blade.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:43 pm
by hwsiii
I sent the email Larry.


H

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:17 pm
by TomW
Okay kDog that is the same blade JimW is running and getting such good performance from. Larry you can get an Advantage I at Dan's for $239 for a 2 3/4 x 15.

Larry one thing I'm wondering is whether your motor is receiving all the fuel it should. When I looked at the 70 and compared fuel mileage it only got about 6.5 mpg with not much difference betweenn 2000 and 5000 rpms, you said you were getting about 10mpg I believe. The test was for a flat bottom boat like yours at 1600 lbs.

Tom

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got the email, thanks H.

10 MPG is strictly a WAG based on looking at the fuel gauge, from start to finish, which may or may not be linear or even close to accurate :doh: Along with being in a fast flowing river. I wouldn't put any stock or science into that number yet :lol:

I started with 24 gallons of fuel, which put the gauge just over half, ran 100 miles and the gauge was a little under half. I've been out 4 times now, 9 hours total. Put in 12 more gallons which brought the gauge higher than when I originally started, so I haven't burned more than 12 gallons in 9 hours. A lot of that time was at idling speeds.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:26 pm
by hwsiii
Tom, I don't quite understand, because Yamaha owns Precision Propeller who makes the Stiletto props. That is a bummer that they don't offer those props as well in their lineup of propellers. Sound STUPID to me.


H

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:40 pm
by TomW
H, Yamaha didn't buy them until July of 2008, last year. I went back and reread the press release and as I understand it they were already a customer of Precision and may further integrate some of there props into the stores. This was from there news release last summer. I had thought they were going to be an independent division which they may well be it is sort of hard to read to between the lines whether Yamaha will be a preferred customer or just a regular customer. The original owner is continuing as manager.

Tom

PS: I've changed the wording in this a couple of times to more correctly reflect the news release issued from Yamaha in July 2008. My original wasn't very clear.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:53 pm
by hwsiii
I do the same thing Tom, I saw that you did. LOL


H

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:48 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, I have to wait a few more hours before I can call Japan. They are not open til then, it is about 6 am there. John at Yamaha has no idea what the specs are on their props. He doesn't know if they have rake, cup and not even the efficiency of any of their props. The only thing he knows is it is NOT a progressive pitch. And I DOUBT if he really knows that, he said nobody has ever called with those questions before.
He said get with the dealer. LMAOOOOO
As if the dealer has ANY IDEA of the specs of Yamaha's props.
He said the RPMs on the motor should NOT change over 100 to 150 RPMs after the double oil and it is broken in. I will let you know what I hear from Japan after I talk to them. In the meantime I am calling other companies that I believe have props that could work, and finding out their specs. But we really need to know about the Yamahas, because they are the ONLY ones we have test results for, and it would be very helpful to have that data to figure out the design qualifications we are not looking for.


H

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:53 pm
by TomW
Larry, H, talked to Dan's. He said that the 70 Yammi has the low torque curve and can not take much cupping. His recommendation is a PowerTech 13x15 SCD prop. It is specifically designed for the Yamaha and he has sold a lot of them since they have come out. Price through Dan's is $269 + shipping(14.95).

Tom

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:42 pm
by hwsiii
Tom, they show that prop as being designed for a V4, just like the Yamaha Performance. But I am sure Dan knows a lot more about props than I do. Did he give you any kind of specs on it.


H

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
I really appreciate yalls efforts :D The 13X17 should be in tomorrow, if it gets warm enough for me to run it. This should give us some more info.

As if the dealer has ANY IDEA of the specs of Yamaha's props.
:lol: They can read the same spec sheets we can, and they have some experience propping boats, but not a custom boat like this and not a customer like me who wants it right.

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:01 pm
by TomW
Take the V-4 spec on PowerTechs site only as a guideline. If you look at the next class up the largest size prop in it is only 11" in diameter. Basic specs only semi-cleaver, low cup, moderate rake. Don't know if we'll get much more than that from anyone as prop specs are as guarded as other technical secrets. That's why they build 'em differently and want you to keep trying them. :lol: They usually give 1-4 degrees of cup low-high rake, etc.

He was very specific about the lack of torque in the Yammi 70 and needing a prop that turned easy.

Larry one question he asked was whether you had the motor trimmed completely up. If not he said that is eating some of your rpm's also. I figure you do so I told him yes when I gave him your numbers with the 16"

Tom

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:11 pm
by Dog Fish
It seem like every time I prop one of my boats it always ends up with the old school way. Keep trying them till ya get it right. But you sure do have some very determined helpers Larry. You guys are awesome :!: I know who I will ask next time. Good luck.

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:37 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, what I meant was, they HAVE NO spec sheets on theses props. I called four different Yamaha dealers in my area today and not a one of them had any information on what the rake, cup or mean width ratio was. Tomorrow when you see the dealer ask him if he has the specs on the Performance and the Painted stainless.
They DO have considerable knowledge about propping boats that they sell from past experience and a lot of the time they are good at figuring out what will work by comparing hull for hull.
Stupid me, I didn't remember in the past I got numbers from the prop repairers, they have to know what it is in order to repair them.

H

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Keep trying them till ya get it right.
That's the way I've always done it in the past, but I used to live closer to the dealerships too :lol: Every prop swap now is an 90 mile drive. Once we get the Yamaha prop nailed down I can resort back to the Internet and UPS.
But you sure do have some very determined helpers Larry. You guys are awesome I know who I will ask next time.
You aren't kidding. This forum is like having your own R&D team 8) They're going to make me buy the beer at Crystal River, I got a feeling :lol:
Larry one question he asked was whether you had the motor trimmed completely up.


Tom, the top RPM and speed numbers were with the motor trimmed up until it started to porpoise a bit, then down until it just quit bouncing. It has perfect trim range. It seems to have plenty of power and jumps right on a plane without much change in boat trim throughout the transition.
Stupid me, I didn't remember in the past I got numbers from the prop repairers, they have to know what it is in order to repair them.

H
Good idea. Not stupid. I've forgot most of what I ever knew, might be the kava on Vanatau.

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:03 am
by TomW
Larry we may be losing a couple 200 rpm's on trim then. What the guy at Dan's said was that there is a difference of 800-1000rpm's between being trimmed all the way in and al the way out with your 70, depending on the prop of course.

Looks like it's warming up on Thurday here in the 60's, 40's still on Weds.

Tom

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:47 am
by cape man
Way to go guys! Now I am convinced I HAVE to buy a tach! All these years running small boats without one, throwing on whatever prop I had, and then I read this! Seriously, thanks. I am going to need every bit of performance I can get out of my 40, and the cost of a tach and a different prop may save me from repowering, which is NOT in the cards this year. I have a painted stainless on it now, but have no clue on the size and pitch. Do have the advantage of the jack plate to get it at the right height behind the transom without tilt. Work out the bugs on this with Larry's and then help me in a few months (yes...a few months...).

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:22 pm
by topwater
I have come to the conclusion that you guys have
forgot more about props than i'll ever know :!:

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Now I am convinced I HAVE to buy a tach!
I've got an extra you can have, Craig. On the way to you tomorrow.

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:48 pm
by TomW
Craig make sure it's not the first one he used on No Excuse or you'll never figure out anything and you'll want to let a bottle of BBB go bad just for him. :lol: :P Nah, I know he won't send a bad part. :D

Tom

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:16 pm
by cape man
I've got an extra you can have, Craig. On the way to you tomorrow.
Sweet. Thanks :D

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:13 pm
by hwsiii
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back with y’all, but I wasn’t getting any answers that would help a whole lot so I decided to do some more research before making this post. Larry and Tom, I called Japan and they told me almost nothing about the props, we had some very heated discussions, it is proprietary information they say. They did say the Performance props are very aggressively designed with cup and other features, whereas the Painted Stainless is not as aggressive. The Performance does raise the bow because of their design, which tells me it has a decent amount of rake, maybe because of cup on the blade tips. And this much cup is probably creating our problem with the lower torque on the motor. Their Painted Stainless props are a lot less aggressive and do help the motor get into a better power band easier, as they have very little cup and rake, as Tom says. This may let you trim the motor out more and increase RPMs, also as Tom says.
When Tom mentioned the lower torque that this motor produces it made me go back and look at the specifications for the 70. Yamaha’s 50 HP motor is a 3 cylinder, just like the 70, and yet it has a 42.6 cubic inch block and the 70 HP only has 51.8 cubic inches. If you compare the cubic inches with the horse power developed from each one you see that the 50 HP produces 1.17 HP for every cubic inch displacement at 5,500 RPMs and a gear ratio of 1.85, and the 70 HP produces 1.35 HP per cubic inch with RPMs at 6000 and a gear ratio of 2.33. When comparing these two we find that the ratio of cubic inches to HP is 85% for the 50 and 74 percent for the 70. I did call Yamaha in the states back and talked to Steve and he did at least tell me that the 70 HP does produce 70 Shaft HP at 5,500 RPMs, but he did not have a performance curve of HP and Torque. In my opinion the outboard manufacturers do not want us to know the specifications of their motors, keep us in the dark, because if we did then we could make more intelligent decisions about which particular motor might suit our needs the best.
Yamaha recommended Peter Dean at Propco in Monroe, Georgia for me to talk to. When I called him he was very helpful when I explained to him what our problems were. He has been in the prop business for over 40 years and he designs and makes his own propellers. He makes a SSLM57-15SP stainless Steel 15 spline, which has only a 2â€

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:31 pm
by TomW
H, you have been busy. Yep everything seems to be proprietary now a days. Suzuki gave the torque on there old 70hp bot not there new one. Well we'll see what happens when it warms up and Larry gets on the water with the new painted blade.

Tom

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:47 pm
by hwsiii
It amazes me Tom, because anybody that really wants to copy their design would have NO problems at all. Just bring it to the prop shop and every design element in it can be seen, just by using their stock gauges and equipment for checking it out. The Black Art in prop comparison is created by the prop manufacturers themselves, not releasing the information. They get to SELL more props that way, probably in the neighborhood of at least 15% to 25% more. Just ask people how many props they have for their boats. I personally have two for my boat, but one is the aluminum that came with it and I just use it as a spare. My stainless has a heavy rake and cup, it is an Apollo 10 3/8" x 14" by Michigan wheels and I was lucky enough to get it right the first time.


H

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all that H. Not a problem, it's cold today! Yes, I've previously been to the yamaha sites and seen the test results, which is part of what guided my decision to get the 70. I also saw a post you made on the Hull Truth site about this yesterday.

Did you see this post Don made about his OD18? He seems to be doing best with a 13X15 AL on his.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 1&start=45

I don't think I'm getting any benefit from the bow lift of a cupped prop, this boat doesn't need it, so I may be able to trim higher without porpoising with the non-cup wheel.
We just need to wait and see how No Excuse does with the Painted Stainless and go from there, we will have two different sets of fairly complete numbers at that time and will be able to better correlate the data
I'll pick it up tomorrow and run it by Thursday.

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:29 am
by hwsiii
Larry, that was the something else I was going to mention to you and forgot. LOL I actually put that same exact post on four different sites that I visit regularly. I also have it on Iboats and Boat Design as I was trying to find someone who actually knew the design elements of the painted stainless yamaha props. But of course I haven't so far. LOL
I also read Don's post and tried to look up that model number for the stainless prop to make sure it was not the Painted stainless, and I didn't have any luck, if it is the same prop they make today they have changed the model number. I am sure the aluminum doesn't have much if any rake and cup, as that is their most basic model, so it is able to turn it easier. I wish I had a better answer at this time, and you will have less porpoising with less rake and cup. I am waiting until you try the Painted Stainless and we will see.


H

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:56 am
by TomW
H, what you doing up at this hour of night I thought I was the only one with insomnia. Your right on in that the less rake and cup the less porpoising. Maybe I'll send him my winter parka so he can go test it tomorrow instead of Thursday. :P :lol:

Larry if this doesn't work out there are 3 PowerTech dealers in GA don't know how close they are to you but here they are: http://www.ptprop.com/component/option, ... Itemid,49/ I think they are a little far away from you but they're there.

Tom

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:31 am
by hwsiii
Tom at my age I only sleep about 6 hours a day, otherwise I get tired. LOL
It is so hard to tell anything about these props looking at pictures. If we could hold them in our hand we would know about what the rake and pitch are by just touching them. It wouldn't have to be as much guessing, going by the manufacturers statements. When I bought my last prop I was able to actually compare the physical props that were available and I got it right the first time. I have a Michigan Apollo with heavyy rake and cup, and for my needs it is perfect, as I am able to lift the bow high when I go the islands and it is rough. I have a 16' Sundance KFLX Flats boat with a 40 HP, and it is definitely not designed for rough water. But I fish at the Islands a lot in the shallows for redfish and speckled trout, and it is perfect for that.


H

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm back with the 13X17 and have it installed. Prop number 3, hopefully this will be the charm :lol: Too cold today for me though, still in the 40s, supposed to be 60 tomorrow. I can stand that.

I'm very pleased with the dealership. They might not be prop experts, but they sure are doing everything they can to make me happy. They say that if I don't like this one, let them know and they'll swap it again :D

They also want to put my boat in their display at the Savannah Boat Show this weekend. I don't think so :doh:

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:02 pm
by hwsiii
LMAO Larry. You mean you do not want to have people crawling allll over it?
Did you remember to ask them about the specifications on the props.


H

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:15 pm
by TomW
Such an honor Larry, I know no one would want to touch it. :lol:

Tom

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
H, the only specifications they have are the ones in the sale brochure :lol:
I know no one would want to touch it.


I picture 25,000 people in hard soled shoes :help: I also fear someone would write me a check for enough money, and I'd be boatless :?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, just in from testing prop number 3 with much better results :D Sam and I spent a few hours, running each setting in both directions and allowing time for the GPS to stabilize.

This is what H predicted for this prop..

Image

And this is what we actually got...realize this is an analog tach, so the RPMs could be +- 50, not exact.

1800 - 8.3
2000 - 9.5
2500 - 11,4
3000 - 14.9
3500 - 19.1 Planing point in here
3750 - 21.5
4000 - 24.9
4500 - 27.8
4750 - 28.7
5000 - 30.8
5250 - 32.4
5500 - 33.9
5650 - 35.3 MAX RPM

This prop is far superior to the other 2 :D The engine feels and sounds right now. I can trim it higher without porpoising also, as we suspected. This is right where I was hoping it would be and we can probably expect a little better when I get off this double oil, which is still about 20 gallons away.

Interesting that the numbers are much different at displacement speeds, but right on at planing speeds :doh: Go figure.

H and Tom, thanks for the math lesson 8) Yall done real good. I owe you dinner and drinks :wink:

H, I'll plug the numbers into your form and email it to you later. Thanks again :D

I still need to get another for a spare. I wonder if any improvement is possible?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:20 pm
by hwsiii
I can't wait for Larry to get Back!!!! I can't believe Don had to go to a 13" x 15" in aluminum.


H

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol:

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:28 pm
by hwsiii
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS That is what I wanted to see Larry, Fantasticcccc

The reason the lower RPM numbers are so far off Larry, is because I used a 10% SLIP factor througthout the whole RPM Range, and below planing speed Slip can be as high as 40% or more, and as RPMs go up SLIP goes down, I use the Slip for Top Speed, That is where it normally at its least on regular boats.



H

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:32 pm
by peter-curacao
You guys need a chat box??? Image Image

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:52 pm
by TomW
H agree with you on the slip. 30-40 % slip at low rpm's is normal, going down to 6-15% depending on the prop at full rpm's.

We might as well talk to Dan's and or PowerTech and see what they say to see if we can get it even better, after we get rid of the extra oil and see what it's doing then. We may or may not be able to do any better. I'd like to see a couple hundred rpm's more, which hopefully getting rid of the extra oil will give Larry. The correct prop can do more than just keep it in the right rpm range they can also help get it up on plane earlier, help with fuel mileage, reduce torque steer, etc.

Tom

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got one, thanks.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:04 pm
by hwsiii
LMAO Larry


H

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:05 pm
by TomW
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:19 pm
by hwsiii
The only way I think we can do any better Tom is to know more about the propeller Larry is using now. If we can get Larry to take about 6 pictures of the prop and then describe where the cup is on the prop we might be able to get another 2 to 3 MPH. But , I do believe he will pick up another 100 to 150 RPMs when he gets rid of the double oil, and that will put us at about 5,800 and that is real close to WOT, in fact as close as you can get maybe without passing 6,000. At those RPMs he will be real close to 37.
But on the other side if we can figure the exact characteristics of this prop, then maybe we can get one that has BETTER characteristics in the RIGHT places and get FULL WOT at 5900 - 6000 and pick up maybe 3 to 4 miles per hour more. But we do need to wait until the motor is broken in and the double oil is gone to see how much better this does.
Larry, I can send you a picture of a prop with all of the Characteristics in a prop and exactly what they look like and feel like so you can know where they are located and whether it is concave or flat and other significant characteristics. What do you think.


H

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, I can send you a picture of a prop with all of the Characteristics in a prop and exactly what they look like and feel like so you can know where they are located and whether it is concave or flat and other significant characteristics. What do you think.

I think, I know concave from flat without a picture :lol: Send it to me and I'll describe it. This prop has some cup, but not as much as the performance, and it has less rake.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:39 pm
by peter-curacao
Sure about the chatbox??? :doh:

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:49 pm
by hwsiii
Maybe I said that wrong, What I meant was Where it is located on the prop. It can be concave either Horizontally across the prop or Vertically from the base of the blade to the tip of the blade, they are both concave but both perform totally opposite functions as far as where the lift on the boat is located. One lifts the bow the other lifts the stern, but yet both are concave areas on the prop blade. That was what I was trying to describe, I know you are a smart and intelligent gentleman and was not trying to imply you didn't know the difference between concave and flat. The vertical one creates more rake and bow lift while the horizontal one creates stern lift. It makes it a little harder to do this long distance.
Hope that is a better explanation.


H

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:42 pm
by TomW
That's along the lines I was thinking H. If Larry's getting 5800 and a couple more mph's after the oil it may not be worth messing with. His numbers with the T-top are very, very respectable right now. :D :D

Tom

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sure about the chatbox???
Are we boring you Peter :doh:
Maybe I said that wrong,
No, I was just kidding with you :lol: I do that, ignore me.
The vertical one creates more rake and bow lift while the horizontal one creates stern lift. It makes it a little harder to do this long distance.


I didn't know that. Still learning. Hopefully other people are learning something too, as we blunder along.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:55 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry, you are not alone I didn't know that either. I have followed all this word for word and sometimes twice.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:00 pm
by Murry
Congradulations on the good reults Larry. I bet she'll get better as soon as you lean that engine out.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:12 pm
by Dog Fish
I bet Sam had a big smile, he knows boats. He heard that motor sounding good and said were almost right on Dad so lets go fishing and burn off some of this fuel ,Yea buddy. :)

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:21 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all. It looks like a nice weekend coming, so we'll probably try to catch a fish :D

I've only got a couple of minor things left to finish, install the LORAN, install some deck floodlights, and I think I want to ground the T-Top.

I really should have planned for this and installed a ground plate directly below the console. I can't do that now without destroying the integrity of the sole, so I guess I'll have to run a ground wire thru the chase to the transom and mount a dynaplate there. I do feel like it should be grounded, although there are 2 schools of thought. Some people feel that grounding structure increases the chance of lightning strikes. I agree, but I think it decreases damage and injury when a strike occurs. The wheel is grounded, by the steering cable to the engine, so you don't want to have the wheel in one hand and the top leg in the other, if that top isn't grounded too.

I'm interested in any thoughts on this, one of my last items to ponder :D

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:33 am
by gk108
It looks like you have it dialed in closer than most boats ever get. Those displacement speed figures certainly give you an idea of how inefficient a planing hull can be at displacement speeds. That all changes at planing speed, though. We have a nice weekend coming up, so that last 20 gallons of break-in gas should go fast. Have fun! 8)

Almost forgot, ground the top and hope for a halo effect? Or ground the top to prevent and dissipate static build-up?

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:46 am
by Cracker Larry
Halo effect is my thoughts. I'm not worried about static build up, I'm worried about lightning. They still call me Capt. Kilowatt around these parts, based on my past history with lightning :doh:

I was knocked unconscious once because I was holding the metal wheel in my left hand and the ungrounded flybridge structure in my right. Lightning struck the tower and went through me to the grounded wheel. Dang near killed me. After that, I always rigged chains from the tower to the water, every time I heard thunder :help:

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:54 am
by TomW
Larry, I don't know if the Dynaplate will do you much good on a tower. You will need to mount the wire higher than anywhere you might reach other wise you will still be the ground. Also instead of one main point like a sailboats mast you have 4 equal points going to the deck each the same size. Also on a sailboats mast they have a copper or aluminum rod that the cable is attached to that in theory serves as the attractor if it is hit.

If I was to go with a grounding systerm for a T-top and I'm not sure one is necessary as it is not that far above the boat in general, I would put 4 rods on the corners connected in series to a the Dynaplate by #6 wire. They could be made to flip up and down if you got fancy so they were hidden when not in use.

Tom

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:58 am
by Dog Fish
I agree with ya on grounding the T-Top. Like you said, one hand on the top and one on the wheel and you become the conductor. ( fried ) Yea, grounding plate under console would have been best and direct. Sounds like only way to get there is cutting the sole, that sucks. Isn't your batt behind that little door at the bottom of your console, maybe you could put a pie plate there. I don't know what it looks like under there, just thinking out loud. Cutting holes in the sole just sounds awful. There has to be a way :idea:

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:05 am
by ks8
Tough call on that one. If you ground it, the T-top is then basically at the same charge potential as the surrounding ocean, and a more likely jump off point for an upgoing leader from ocean level charge potential, with the potential between it and wheel *mostly* equalized, (there will be a less resistive path in the tower grounding system than in the steering system, even if by only a very small amount). That can be good or bad. If you don't ground it, the steering wheel, or at least the hub for it (if it were a wooden wheel) is at near ocean potential, more so than yourself, and there could be a jump from the T-top to the wheel, or vise versa, to equalize, as a local, *less blaster* event, through you or without you. Even with a wooden wheel, it could arc to the hub in the console, and if not to there, it could blow a hole through the hull heading to the water, if the top were to conduct the main *payload* *first*, whether from sky down or ocean up. It's a tough subject, because once the leader has made it to your boat, or very close to it, no matter how much one waves the laws of physics around like a banner, lightning that close tends to go *wherever it feels like it*, meaning, who can truly say how the dielectric of air is instantly being ionized to form the final path to the water for the final section of leader for main *payload*, or how conductor's properties and the nearby air are altered with that much charge on them suddenly (?).

I lean towards grounding it, just because it is a much better conductive path between hub and tower than you or the wheel are, and realistically, I don't think it will increase the risk of a strike to or from the tower itself, compared to the unpredictability of pathway once a leader system works its way that close already. It may protect against a strike to/from the wheel/hub assembly, since there is going to be a less resistive path on the tower than the wheel. and a strike to the wheel, if you are not holding it, could take out your means of steering, unless you carry a workable tiller as a backup, assuming your electrics aren't taken out too.

Tough call, but I lean towards grounding the tower, not so much to protect you, but to protect, (slim chance), steering mechanism and electrical. To protect yourself, you really need something closer to a faraday cage (or wear a suit of armor or chainmail :lol: ). But when it comes to electrical, there are 20 other ways the electrical could be blasted anyway. Even a near strike could take that out from induction. :lol: I lean toward grounding it as a tertiary measure. Primary and secondary is.... real prayer, and the captain's prayer. We've both witnessed lightning doing its dance enough (personally) to know that once its that close and on the loose, you are are just hoping to minimize damage to various systems, and yourself. Still, grounding it is probably saying, *Here, hit this*, more than it is saying, *Please don't hit me or my boat's vital systems*. Once a tornado is on main street, it doesn't necessarily follow the traffic laws.

Before I contradict myself repeatedly with such an awkward subject, here's a thought that might close the deal.... go with industry recommendations that the insurance industry is more likely to support favorably in the case of a claim (although that is not necessarily a rule of thumb for how to live a life). :D :( And I tend to think that would be to ground it to a sintered plate, shortest thickest copper path you can manage with least turns or bends to the plate, though, I am no professional at all in insurance claims. If you have the boat insured, ask your agent. If the boat ever takes a hit, the cause and mechanism of damage that results might be argued by physicists for years, but the insurance company has printed guidelines for honoring or rejecting a claim, that might, in a wierd and sick sort of way, supersede the physicists and risk managers, whether or not you are still living on the earth to commend or condemn their final decision on the resulting claim. :) Man, that is one sick way to have to look at it. :lol:

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:31 am
by hwsiii
Larry, I went ahead and filled out a Real World Prop Slip Chart for the 17" Painted Steel Prop and one for the Performance 16" as well. This will show everybody the actual slip you are having at different RPMs, and I hope it will be educational for everybody.

Image

These are the numbers for the Yamaha Painted Stainless prop. This prop has turned out to be the best prop Larry has tested so far. It has less Cup and Rake than the Performance series does and a 1/4" less Diameter, and that shows by the speed and RPMs Larry was able to attain with this prop on this boat and motor. The design elements of this prop are definitely more suited to this boat and motor than the Yamaha Performance series is. He gained a total of 600 RPMs over the 16" Performance series. This prop is turning 5,650 RPMs whereas the Performance only turns 5,050 RPMs.

Image

These are the numbers for the Yamaha Performance Series prop and as you can see from the numbers, the extra cup and rake as well as an extra 1/4" of Diameter for this particular combination of boat and motor are more detrimental than helpful. Larry was only able to attain a top speed of 31.5 miles an hour turning a WOT setting of only 5,050 RPMs, although Yamaha calls this a 16" pitch prop. If you look at the prop slip percentages on this combination you can tell that it is not a true 16" pitch or we wouldn't be showing a slip of 3% and such low RPMs. Theoretically you can get a slip that low, but in actual testing it hardly ever happens.

Larry it is taking me longer than what I thought to put together what I am going to send you, but I believe you will be very happy with the results.


H

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:49 am
by hwsiii
Larry, if it was me I would go with KS8, and the insurance company. My reasoning is that with all of the bean counters they have and use, you can bet they have made some of the most sophisticated analysis of lightning hitting boats and the results of the costs to them. They are THE ones with all of the data on which way is the best way to go, because usually they are the ones paying the money to rectify the end results, and you know they like to keep that money and not return it. I don't care much for insurance companies, but I do believe they have the BEST statistical database in the world for these types of data.


H

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:08 am
by Cracker Larry
but I believe you will be very happy with the results.
:D I'm already very happy with the results! Thanks!

Yeah, I'm going to ground the top, just have to figure the best way to do it now. I know the insurance companies and most marine surveyors specify grounding it. And in my experience that's the best thing to do. It may cause more equipment damage, but it will protect the people better. I've had a few sets of grounded outriggers melt like a large buss fuse, but it never hurt anyone. Fresh britches all around and we're good to go :lol:

Even if I just bonded the top to the steering head, it would equalize the potential and take the current through the steering cable instead of me. If that melts I can lash a paddle to the engine and steer. But I'm leaning towards a ground plate directly under the console. It will be a pain, but I can seal the sole around the bolt. The shorter the run the better. I'm thinking maybe a flat bronze plate about a foot square and an 8" bronze bolt throught the bottom and sole. More pondering is required here. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas, especially when they agree with mine 8)

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:10 am
by TomW
Larry I fogot to ask if your top is SS or aluminum. That will make a difference in my answer.

Tom

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:10 am
by Cracker Larry
It's aluminum.

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:14 pm
by TomW
Ground it. If it was SS I probably wouldn't as SS is not an attractor and has less potential than the water around the boat.

And like like I said in my first post ground it above where you can reach preferably with a rod connected in series so you have a chance of a strike hitting one of the rods and going down the ground not down the tower.

Tom

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:25 am
by hwsiii
Larry, when you are fishing this weekend, if you could try some fairly strong turns at speed, I would appreciate it. I think there is a chance that we might could raise the motor up one more notch, and if we can we could possibly gain another few hundred RPMs and and a couple of more MPH. If we can do this and gain some more RPMs there is the potential we have a highly optimized setup and then we can decide what you can try next.


H

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:03 am
by stickystuff

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Ground it.
Yep it's now all grounded, Tom :D I used #4 and #6 cable, had just enough scraps and terminal ends, and bonded the top to the steering head and to the main ground bus, which has #6 to the engine. I've got a dynaplate on order so I won't be relying strictly on the engine for ground, but this will prevent electrocution for now. The engine is an acceptable ground. I feel better about this now :D

I also made sure the bonding cables don't touch any of the other wiring anywhere. If they melt, I don't want them melting the main wiring harness.

Image

Thanks for those sites, Ken. I've read about everything there is to read about it now, I think. Ground everything with big @ss cable :D
I think there is a chance that we might could raise the motor up one more notch, and if we can we could possibly gain another few hundred RPMs and and a couple of more MPH.
H, at this point in our trials I think that is sound advice. I can't make this prop ventillate in any kind of turn or at any trim, so it's worth a try and doesn't cost anything but a couple of hours. So I spent a couple of hours this afternoon...

Image

and jacked her up a hole.

Image

You've been right so far. Worse case I put it back 8) I'll let you know tomorrow.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:49 am
by TomW
Good move Larry fully agree with H on moving it up. Should work fine.

Tom

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:36 am
by hwsiii
That is wonderful Larry, I do believe there will be no problems after moving it up, since you can't get it to break loose at trim and turns. Although I do know it is a PAIN taking it apart and moving it up. I think we will see the fruits of your labor though in the new numbers. We are only trying to get a couple of more miles per hour, but at the Top end of the RPMs that is always the hardest to do.
I am happy to see you got the grounding done, I didn't want to see a picture of you with your hair standing up on fire, I wouldn't like that. I wish I had your skills in electrical though, I have been working on my RX7 redoing some of the the electrical in it. I have had it for a couple of years and never seem to drive it enough so everything always seems to need maintenance. LOL
I am sorry I haven't gotten the pictures to you yet, but it seems that it has started turning into a white paper on props, and is taking much longer than I thought. But as soon as it is finished I will email it to you.
I will be glad to hear how this last change works out and see how much closer we are to our goal.


H

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
The results are in :lol:

Not as significant a change as I would have thought, but still slightly better. We gained about 125-150 RPM, now maxing just under 5800, and it's gained maybe 1.5 mph, topping out at 36.9 mph. Cruise of 4750 is up about 1 mph to 29.8. Good economical cruise speed :D Light load today, just Sam and I and about 15 gallons of gas.

Still no problem with ventillation but the boat is a little more prone to porpoising and I can't trim it up quite as much without getting some bow bounce, although still easily corrected by trimming down, or a passenger, or some more gas in the tank. It planes quickly, no major drawbacks so I'm going to leave it where she is 8) If nothing else, we've reduced the draft by an inch.

All in all, we're a lot better off than where we started and real close to the predicted numbers. The right prop, trimmed right gave us about 1000 more RPM and 7 mph. I'm real pleased with it :D Now I need a spare, so I can do just a little more experimenting.

Thanks for the help, H and Tom. I appreciate you taking the time with the numbers. I learned a few things along the way, which is always good 8)

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:52 pm
by Dog Fish
Sounding good there Larry. Even if your cruise went down to 27 or 28 with full load, people, ice, tackle, bait well full and 2 cases BBB you would still be moving at a good clip.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, I love it when a plan comes together, even if it takes a while :lol: These numbers make me happy that I didn't buy the 90hp instead. There will seldom be more than 2 people fishing in the boat, I hate a crowded boat. Too many years running charters I guess. This boat isn't designed to run 50 mph anyway.

And all this is flat water testing. Where I usually fish, the water is almost never flat and I'll be lucky to be able to run 20 or 25 with this hull shape, maybe not even that fast.

Now that we've got a few reliable hours on her, everything tested and the prop worked out, it's time to do some ocean trials with her. She still hasn't seen anything larger than a boat wake. Time for her to get out of sight of land, see if she's scared. I don't think she is :D

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:23 pm
by tech_support
Cracker Larry wrote: Now that we've got a few reliable hours on her, everything tested and the prop worked out, it's time to do some ocean trials with her. She still hasn't seen anything larger than a boat wake. Time for her to get out of sight of land, see if she's scared. I don't think she is :D
just in time for the Cobia that will be starting to migrate up from our beaches soon. :)

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:29 pm
by Dog Fish
Ha Ha, :lol: I can see the smile on your face from hear. Best of luck with her, she truly is a beautiful all around boat. The 70 is the better choice for sure.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:41 pm
by gk108
1 or 2 mph might not seem like much, but if you run the motor for 5000 hours, that's a lot of extra miles. Like many of the other time consuming details on your build, this prop stuff will continue to pay off for a long time. 8)

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
1 or 2 mph might not seem like much, but if you run the motor for 5000 hours, that's a lot of extra miles.
It sure is, along with a lot of saved fuel. It's worth the trouble to get it right, both economically and personally. Beats watching TV too :lol:

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:18 am
by hwsiii
I think that prop is maxed out Larry, although I am not happy that you now have some porpoising back in the equation, Tom and I need to put some thought into that. We might get another 100 RPMs when you change over to regular oil, but that is it I believe. It will be good to hear a report of how she runs in some formed seas. I will be sending you the email shortly, so we can examine the elements in this prop.


H

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:45 am
by Cracker Larry
Yes, I think we're getting all we're going to get out of this prop, which is pretty darn good. I could install a hydrafoil and get rid of the porpoising, but I'd probably lose 2 mph in drag, so I'd be right back where I was. It's perfectly acceptable as she is.

Thanks for your help, I'm waiting on the email. 8)

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:04 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, do you have Microsoft Excel and Word, as I want to send you some Charts as well as the pictures.


H

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes to both.

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:30 pm
by hwsiii
Great, I am sending the Email now.


H

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:44 pm
by TomW
Larry I have been off line for computer problems since early Monday. To me the most important gain was the 1 mph gain at cruise. Top speed you can deal with by keeping her trimmed up.

Tom

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got the email H, thanks. A lot of information there, it will take me a little while to absorb it all.

Tom, I agree. Top speed is something that I will use rarely. A good cruise speed at an economical RPM is my primary goal. High 20's is a perfectly acceptable cruise at 4700 or so.

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:53 pm
by hwsiii
Tom, can I email you some charts I ran for Larry, I would your opinion on my assessment of what we want in a perfect prop for Larry's boat.


H

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:06 am
by TomW
Sure give me a day or two to get my e-mail back up. I see you have your e-mail slot activated as soon as I get mine back up I'll send you one. I have a couple appointments tomorrow, so it will either be late tomorrow or Thursday. Believe it or not I had a mouse go bad and wipe out the complete computer, no more MS mice, second time it has happened.

Tom

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:05 am
by bermudian
Larry I had a problem with porpoising but the dolfin stopped the problem. It also help a lot to trim the boat out when I have extra gear and people. Besides I don't get to run my OD at WOT very often, I'm mostly use it out in the ocean.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:28 am
by hwsiii
Tom, I just put it in my Gallery and if you click on the link and then click on the item it will automatically download it to Microsoft Excel, and you can read it easily then.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 1700&pos=0


H

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:21 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry I had a problem with porpoising but the dolfin stopped the problem.
Thanks for that Bermudian. I've used them on many small boats and they always improve the handling, but I've never used one on a boat this size.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:14 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, have you had a chance to look at the charts and collect your thoughts on the prop yet.


H

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:46 pm
by TomW
H, did you get my e-mail.

Tom

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:06 pm
by hwsiii
Yes Tom I did. I am looking at PTP and running some numbers, when I get my thoughts together I am gonna send it LOL. I don't know if I ever truly have my thoughts together.


H :doh:

Crackers OD18

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:46 pm
by cottontop
Larry, I added a "Dolfin" to my 50-4 stroke MERC. It helped the porpoising quite a bit. It didn't take it all out if I try to trim her up too high. It also helped to get her on plane quicker and run quite a bit better. My bot is heavy too, but I don't think she's as heavy as yours. I can get her up to about 6200 rpm, but not good to do that. I cruise at between 5000 and 5500 rpm. Loaded out and 2 to 4 people in boat in calm conditions, she will run between 26 and 28 mph. I can trim her up about 20 to 30% before she begins to porpoise. With the 50 the top spped mentioned above is all I can get. Your bat sure is purty. Cottontop

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:55 pm
by cedarock
Larry, it sounds like you have a good combo! I would only guess that raising the engine has lifted the cavitation plate out of the water stream, loosing it's effectiveness for stability.

As the motor is mounted, I would think that a dolfin would be out of the water stream, while trimmed out and create very little resistance. But, it should help by slowing down the stern from dipping during the porpoise. A fin has helped my situation, but I didn't like drilling four holes in a brand new engine!

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, have you had a chance to look at the charts and collect your thoughts on the prop yet.
I've looked at them a little but haven't got the thoughts or data collected yet. I will.

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:12 am
by Cracker Larry
Have you had a chance to see if the LORAN sensor still works
The LORAN coupler works like a champ Richard, thanks! :D Both displays I got off ebay work perfectly too and one has a GPS head with it. Excellent! I'm building a small electronics box that will mount on the overhead T-top frame to house the Raynav loran/GPS and the future radar. I think we have more nav gear than an 18' boat needs, but redundancy is a good thing when out of sight of land. GPS seems to crap out when the weather is the worse and you need it the most. LORAN isn't weather sensitive.

I also got a Navionics cartography chip for the Hummingbird plotter, on ebay for 1/2 price. It has amazing chart detail and information for the SE USA and Bahamas. Really neat stuff.

H, hope to work on the prop stuff later.

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:17 am
by TomW
Larry those Navionics chips are sharp aren't they, almost unbelievable detail.

Tom

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:31 am
by Cracker Larry
Electronics box under construction...

Image

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:33 am
by Murry
Very nice :!: I like the flush mount.

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:29 pm
by hwsiii
You have been BUSYYYY, I see. No wonder. That Electronics box really looks good Larry. You will not be caught short with electronics. There is no rush with the prop.


H

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:39 pm
by Dog Fish
You can't have to much electronics, But you will have to stop soon your running out of room, looks good Larry :!:

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:35 pm
by chicagoross
you will have to stop soon your running out of room
Bigger Boat! GSX28! :D

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:39 pm
by Dog Fish
chicagoross wrote:
you will have to stop soon your running out of room
Bigger Boat! GSX28! :D
:lol: :lol: there ya go :!:

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Finally finished up the electronics box and got it installed. It took a while in the cold weather. 3 coats of epoxy, sanded between, 1 coat Quick Fair, sanded, one more epoxy coat, sanded, 3 coats of S3 primer sanded between, finished with 4 coats Sterling, sanded after coat 3. Believe it or not I painted the Sterling with disposable chip brushes and it came out beautiful :D

Got it bolted on and wired out. I used 12ga wire to the box and installed a terminal strip that will allow extra circuits, and installed a LED light and switch on the bottom for cockpit lighting.

Image

The faceplate is removable and interchangeable. This one has the LORAN and a storage compartment. I'm building another that will handle the Radar where the storage compartment is.

Image

It's all wired in and working like a champ :D The visability and ergonomics are both good.

Image

Running out of projects :? :| :help:

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:37 pm
by Murry
I like that.... :D

I'm digging the paddle location too. I'm going to do that for Dad on his center console. 8)

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:49 pm
by TomW
Larry it looks great and totally functional, but after all your experience I would expect that. :D Love the paddle and boat hook locations, totally out of the way.

Now let's get some hours on her so we complete the prop calcs and get rid of that porpoising. :P We also need some pics with some fish on her. :lol:

Tom

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Daniel. Everything needs a permanent home :wink: A paddle is really all but useless on this boat, but I just can't bring myself to leave it ashore, where it would be even more useless :lol: Old habits I guess.

Much more useful is the telescoping boat hook, also under the top on the port side, in this pic...

Image

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:01 pm
by peter-curacao
Looks good Larry! I completely missed that first post about the box :oops: , really like your idea of the interchangeable faceplate. I have to agree with Tom like to see some fish on that baby ImageImage

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:01 pm
by Bowmovement
Cracker Larry wrote:Thanks Daniel. Everything needs a permanent home :wink: A paddle is really all but useless on this boat, but I just can't bring myself to leave it ashore, where it would be even more useless :lol: Old habits I guess.

Much more useful is the telescoping boat hook, also under the top on the port side, in this pic...

Image
I am with you on the paddle CL. Dont leave home without it. You never know what may happen.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Love the paddle and boat hook locations, totally out of the way
You did notice the boat hook :lol:

I've been running her Tom, got a few more hours now. The porpoising is a non- problem, not bad enough to be an issue and easily corrected with load and trim. But we're still going to work on the prop :wink:

We put some blood in the boat for the first time. The Whiting are running good in the inlets and we caught a limit of 60 in Port Royal Sound. Most were small but they eat good. Not really picture worthy, bunch of 12-14" fish :oops: Had a 30 kt. noreaster all weekend and didn't get back out. I wanted to test the boat in some breakers but the Medusa called me names.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
accidental deletion :doh:

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:32 pm
by peter-curacao
I wish all off you a really beautiful day with lots of good memories

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:37 pm
by TomW
Larry that is so beautiful. May the weather be fair and red sky's at night. :wink:

Tom

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:43 pm
by Bowmovement
Cracker Larry wrote:We've got a special fishing trip planned next weekend I'd like to tell yall about.

When my Dad died last year he donated his body to the Medical College of Georgia to do, whatever it is that they do, don't want to think about that too much :? When they finish, they cremate the remains and return them to the family. They called last week and said they were having a service and we could pick up the ashes on Friday. So my Mom and I are driving up to Augusta on Friday to bring Dad home. She's 80.

She asked if we could take him out to his favorite fishing grounds, in the ocean off Wassaw Island, do some fishing, then let him go out with the tide. Dad wouldn't want us wasting gas just to dump his ashes, he'd expect us to bring home supper too. If he left the dock, supper of some kind was coming back home with him. No excuse for wasting fuel. It will be good to fish with him, my Mom and my brother one more time.
Sounds like a very special fishing trip. Have fun and be safe.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:23 pm
by Murry
Thanks for sharing that Larry.

I second all of the previous responses.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:43 pm
by hwsiii
My Dad was 83 when he died a few years ago Larry, and he loved to get off work a couple of afternoons a week and go down and piddle around with his Owens, just maintaining it and enjoying it. There are eight of us kids, and I can't believe he didn't go every day. LOL He was a Goood man.
I think that is a wonderful idea to put his ashes where his heart was.



H

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:00 pm
by Dog Fish
I hope you and your family have a peaceful calm day Larry........... and catch the hell outta those fish and make your Dad proud. That's a great thing you are doing. We did that with my Mon and Dad a few years back and let them go together.


Brian

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:12 pm
by cape man
It will be good to fish with him, my Mom and my brother one more time.
Hope the boy has the same thoughts when he's got me in an urn... I have the same arrangement. Let the medical school take a look... Your father obviously meant a lot to you and wish you all a sweet day.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:45 pm
by wegcagle
C.L as a graduate from the Medical College of GA. I will say a couple of things.
First of all, your father's selfless act has gone further than most people will ever know in the process of training tomorrow's physicians. There will be many thousands of lives that benefit from his sacrifice.
Second, I know and guarantee that while at MCG, he was treated with the respect, dignity, and appreciation that he deserved.
I also agree that this will be a trip of a life time for you and your family. I pray for safe seas, perfect weather, and incredible fishin' for you and yours.

As a MCG graduate and Pedatric employee, I would like to thank you and your family for your selfless contribution to the improvement of the medical community.

Will

PS: Capeman, I'm with you. I give my soul to God and my body to the medical college.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:44 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Great idea Larry, you're a good son.

My mom's ashes went into the sea from Oddysey last summer on this side of the big rock. I swear the fishing has been better in that area ever since. :wink: She always loved being out in small boats even though she couldn't swim a stroke.

Have great day!

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you all very much for your kind thoughts. Knowing Dad, the weather will probably stink, but no matter, the fishing will probably stink too :lol: We'll likely have to dig oysters to bring home dinner. One thing about oysters though, they are reliable, they aren't very quick :wink:

Will, we've been very impressed with the people at the MCG. They have handled the entire situation with dignity and respect in their dealings with us. Couldn't ask for better. I'm doing the same thing with myself when the time comes.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:28 pm
by cape man
Larry,

If you can swing the time, it would be really cool if you could swing by my friend's place where I got the T-Top. Great old Florida family making some fantastic aluminum boat stuff, rebuilding boats from the stringers up, and drinking Blue Gills when the horn sounds. It would be nice for them to see the top on the boat. I spent about an hour with them last week showing them your build on this site. They're maybe 5 minutes off I-75, exit 240 which is on your way down or back from Boca Grande. Guarantee you'd enjoy the visit. Might even find that leaning post you need... :lol: Send me an email and I'll give you directions.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'll sure try to work it in Craig. Might have to sleep in the barn again though. You gonna be back home by Wednesday?

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:54 pm
by Aripeka Angler
The electronics box looks great! The old school LORAN shines like a new penny up there. If the weather is good we will try out a couple of fishing holes at Crystal River on Friday 8)

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:56 am
by D2Maine
nm

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:25 am
by hwsiii
Larry, it sure is looking fine, you will have everything you need to find out where you are and where the fish are. LOL Redundancy is a GOOD thing. But it will be better when you are able to transfer all of your loran readings to your GPS, watching it on the chart plotter is easier and better than just watching numbers. I know you can remember in the old days when you had to look in the hood like radar and line everything up. Hope you catch a bunch of fish on this next trip.


H :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:16 pm
by cape man
Larry,

I get back Tuesday the 28th. The barn is yours.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:11 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry, looks like you got some rain tonight I seen red and yellow on the radar for up your way. We got about 3/4 inch the other morning, first rain in I can't tell ya how long.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:12 am
by Cracker Larry
Plenty of rain here Brian. 2" on Sunday, an inch yesterday, 3" overnight and still raining. Supposed to keep it up for another 24 hours.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:24 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:Plenty of rain here Brian. 2" on Sunday, an inch yesterday, 3" overnight and still raining. Supposed to keep it up for another 24 hours.
Good thing you have a finished boat :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Final details about wrapped up. Testing gallery....

Image


Hooray, back in business :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:08 pm
by TomW
Georgeous. That looks super. :D

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:05 pm
by peter-curacao
Looks good Larry I like the decal.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: Five bucks at West Marine :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:34 am
by ks8
oh yea... just the right touch, in the right place. :)

Ya know... ya coulda hand painted that... :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:45 am
by Cracker Larry
I could say that I hand painted that :idea: But you'd know better if you saw it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:50 pm
by cape man
But it covers up the T-Bag logo! :P :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:36 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry, I think you guys are gonna get wet again today. :roll:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, getting wet, staying wet, windy too and just turned on the dang heater again :( It's supposed to be summer.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:47 pm
by wegcagle
just turned on the dang heater again
HEATER??? ever since I got my wife pregnant our house is at 60 degrees or less :!: I don't think she's noticed, but I put on my jacket to go INSIDE 8O

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:30 am
by WobblyLegs
wegcagle wrote:HEATER??? ever since I got my wife pregnant our house is at 60 degrees or less :!: I don't think she's noticed, but I put on my jacket to go INSIDE 8O

Will
Don't worry, it will pass. First Mate is no longer pregnant, as of Tuesday ;) and the heater went on yesterday...

But then it is autumn down here!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
First Mate is no longer pregnant, as of Tuesday
Congratulations :D Hope all is well.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:25 pm
by WobblyLegs
Cracker Larry wrote:Congratulations :D Hope all is well.
Thank you. Yup, all is very well with the First Mate and first Crew (Rachel)! Noisy and sleep deprived though...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Excellent! That will pass too, just like the weather. Next thing you know, she'll be 20 years old and wrecking your truck :lol: Ask me how I know?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
Back with a few improvements. Last week's trip to Boca Grande revealed a couple of deficiencies that needed correcting, so no time like the present.

The first problem was a lack of non-skid at the tip of the bow. When docked Florida style like this,

Image

with the bow to the dock and the stern tied to piles, the very bow section is the only step to shore and back. A looooong step, hands full of gear and slippery when wet :!: I think I've been in GA and SC too long, we tie up along side floating docks here :? Less chance to make a fool of yourself.

Fortunately, no one had a camera to prove that I found it slippery when wet :lol: So I fixed it quick, before it happens again. Should have done it to start with :doh:

Masked off, sanded, cleaned and ready....

Image

And a heavy coat of Kiwi Grip. It was hot today, 90 degrees. The KG wanted to dry before I could pull the tape, so the lines aren't real crisp. I should have done this earlier, or in the shade. It was cold the last time I used it.

Image

So if I slip off it again, I'll have blame the rum and not the deck :lol:

The next deficiency to cure is the baitwell overflow. It clogs too easily and allows little baits to escape. Unacceptable :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:06 pm
by TomW
Kiwi looks nice. No more slippin' and slidin', I'll take your experience under advisement! :D On the baitwell a few of the sources I read said the outlet should be 3 times the inlet. Don't know what you have now but take it for what it's worth. :wink:

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's not the size of the outlet that's a problem, it's the lack of a strainer. I knew better when I built it, just got in a hurry and planned to do it later, but didn't. The overflow is a true 1", the inlet is 3/4 pipe, which probably isn't more than 1/2" ID, with a 500 gph pump. The overflow easily keeps up with the pump until it becomes clogged with a few little fish (white bait I've learned to call them), or just 1 big one sucked up against the hole. A 2nd. higher, emergency overflow might also be in order just for safety sake. Most of the over run goes out the motorwell, but a lot of it is pumped into the cockpit when the drain clogs. Not a real problem in the short term, but no need to have the bait pump pumping water into the boat all night, while the bilge pump pumps it back out. Hard on battery power :doh: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:07 pm
by Old E.
Larry,
How did your OD do down in BG? I grew up fishing around there and know crossing the pass can get hairy. How was that flat bottom running around there?

I've also been meaning to ask, how that boat does, generally, in a chop.

Thanks.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:23 pm
by Dog Fish
Cracker Larry wrote:It's not the size of the outlet that's a problem, it's the lack of a strainer. I knew better when I built it, just got in a hurry and planned to do it later, but didn't. The overflow is a true 1", the inlet is 3/4 pipe, which probably isn't more than 1/2" ID, with a 500 gph pump. The overflow easily keeps up with the pump until it becomes clogged with a few little fish (white bait I've learned to call them), or just 1 big one sucked up against the hole. A 2nd. higher, emergency overflow might also be in order just for safety sake. Most of the over run goes out the motorwell, but a lot of it is pumped into the cockpit when the drain clogs. Not a real problem in the short term, but no need to have the bait pump pumping water into the boat all night, while the bilge pump pumps it back out. Hard on battery power :doh: :lol:
Ha Ha, yea that poor pinfish had its right eye almost sucked out :P
Good job with the Kiwi, that would have helped my confidence when getting on your boat with my bad knees.
8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:12 pm
by cedarock
I like that kiwi and it should keep the foot steady on the bow! I am thinking about putting it on the sole and console dash on my hm. The S3 paint is stratching pretty easily and the kiwi would probably be more durable. The similiar stuff that I used on the inside of the fs12 is holding up really well!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Good job with the Kiwi, that would have helped my confidence when getting on your boat with my bad knees.
Mine too Brian. Sorry about that. She's still being shook down, but getting closer every day. We might find some more problems, but I don't intend for us to deal with any one of them more than once :wink:
Larry,
How did your OD do down in BG? I grew up fishing around there and know crossing the pass can get hairy. How was that flat bottom running around there?
In the middle of the pass? Honestly? On that day? The day we tried to fish the pass it was blowing 20-25 from the east, straight across the 11 mile harbor, against the tide, and small craft warnings were up. In the deepest part of the pass with the strongest current we did not have enough boat to effectively fish, and it was uncomfortable. Anchoring or free drifting would have been very uncomfortable and possibly dangerous, out of the question really. 6' square sided swell coming from one way and a 3' chop riding it from another. Like a washing machine. It was only manageable with power and paying attention. We were able to safely cruise through it in every direction looking for fish, but I'm sure everybody hoped we wouldn't find any :wink: The outside edges of the pass, out of the current, were no problem at all.

But other than the worst of the pass on that sloppy day, it did great everywhere else in the area. I guess it did great in the pass too, it got us in, poked around, got us out and no "oh sh@t" moments :lol: And we can still use the boat again :D
I've also been meaning to ask, how that boat does, generally, in a chop.

Thanks.
It does very good if you slow down a little. With 3 of us in the boat, in a 1-2 chop it's comfortable running low 20s. In bigger seas she'll comfortably run about 8-15 into any kind of slop you'd want to be out in, waist-head high stuff and close together. If it gets bigger than that, it's either got to spread out, or you got to go home. She's faster, more comfortable and drier in a following sea than a head sea and requires less attention. She doesn't like much slower than 8 mph, or faster than 15 into a sea, but handles a following sea well at any speed from idle to plane.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 10:01 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry she did great, you made her tough as nails. I was so impressed with your build and her performance and I will agree finding no tarpon in the pass did not hurt my feelings even though I really wanted you guys to catch them. Live to fight another day. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:16 am
by Murry
Cracker Larry wrote:Not a real problem in the short term, but no need to have the bait pump pumping water into the boat all night, while the bilge pump pumps it back out. Hard on battery power :doh: :lol:
Atleast they won't get lazy. :lol:

BTW- Thanks for filling us in on your trip Larry, it was so detailed I was able to picture myself out there with you.
I liked it. 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:07 am
by dborecky
Larry,

For the live well drain, I cut a piece of galvanized chicken wire and formed a kind of square shallow cup that could be shoved/wedged into the end of the drain pipe with the flat sound facing out. It works great. No more little bait or shrimp getting stuck or free. Simple fix and it works great.

Derrick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:47 am
by Old E.
In the middle of the pass? Honestly? On that day? The day we tried to fish the pass it was blowing 20-25 from the east, straight across the 11 mile harbor, against the tide, and small craft warnings were up. In the deepest part of the pass with the strongest current we did not have enough boat to effectively fish, and it was uncomfortable. Anchoring or free drifting would have been very uncomfortable and possibly dangerous, out of the question really. 6' square sided swell coming from one way and a 3' chop riding it from another. Like a washing machine. It was only manageable with power and paying attention. We were able to safely cruise through it in every direction looking for fish, but I'm sure everybody hoped we wouldn't find any :wink: The outside edges of the pass, out of the current, were no problem at all.

But other than the worst of the pass on that sloppy day, it did great everywhere else in the area. I guess it did great in the pass too, it got us in, poked around, got us out and no "oh sh@t" moments :lol: And we can still use the boat again :D
Those days you don't want to be hanging out in that pass with ANY type of boat. Thanks for the info!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:02 am
by Cracker Larry
For the live well drain, I cut a piece of galvanized chicken wire and formed a kind of square shallow cup that could be shoved/wedged into the end of the drain pipe with the flat sound facing out. It works great. No more little bait or shrimp getting stuck or free. Simple fix and it works great.
Galvanized chicken wire, on No Excuse :?: 8O I'm sure that will work, but I hope to come up with something a little more uh, nautical :lol:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:34 am
by dborecky
You don't really see the wire... :lol: It is almost flush with the outer face of the tube and can be easily pulled out later to replace if needed. The one you showed is really pretty but will be knocked off the first time you stick a net in the bait well trying to get a bait out in a hurry. :help: "No Excuse" needs a little rough spot on her somewhere.... 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:54 am
by Dog Fish
Chicken wire, that just ain't right. I think I would give Larry a little more credit to install a screen that will not just fall off when hit with a net, Wouldn't ya think. :roll: Just saying 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:12 am
by dborecky
Dog Fish wrote:Chicken wire, that just ain't right. I think I would give Larry a little more credit to install a screen that will not just fall off when hit with a net, Wouldn't ya think. :roll: Just saying 8O
Most of those screens are just pushed onto the tube with a friction fitting. When the fish are hitting hard and the net gets used aggressively those screens and the bottom drain plugs come lose. Been there and seen it happen all the time.... Not a big deal but you would need to glue it in and then it is a pain to replace. Again, not a big deal. :wink:

By the way, those holes may be too small on the one you show.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:47 am
by gk108
I'd find a snap on strainer from something like a Rule bilge pump and fabricate a method to mount it over the drain.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:01 pm
by topwater
5200 mite stick it or epoxy.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:02 pm
by Dog Fish
I have built many bait wells / tanks. We built a 400 gal insulated tank with 3 Rule high output 3700 gph pumps, one pump was a back up. It was built for a friend of mine who did commercial bait fishing. The drain was 6" pvc with a pvc cap that had a lot of 1/4" holes in it and no chicken wire. :P
There are others but the one that Larry has shown works just fine with a 500 gph pump and it has 3/4"- 14 female threads. Screwed to the thru - hull it comes with or a base plate they work just fine, I will tell ya it aint going no where. :idea:
Larry probably already fixed it. :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Brian's right yall. It doesn't push or stick or glue on, it's threaded for 3/4 NPT, for a standard thru-hull fitting. Once it's screwed on, it ain't going anywhere :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:29 pm
by Murry
Yep,

That's the same one I'm using. In my case it will screw right onto the end of the baitwell pump.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:58 pm
by Dog Fish
Murry wrote:Yep,

That's the same one I'm using. In my case it will screw right onto the end of the bait well pump.
Your pumping the water out of the bait well, how do you get the water in.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:49 pm
by Murry
I'm going with a simple recirculating system Brian.

A five gallon bucket is essential boat equipment for me wich I use to fill the baitwell. I'll use a stand pipe to maintane proper level and fill as needed. On hot days I can always add ice to the baitwell to keep the bait from getting to hot.

I'm using a 500 gph pump for recirculation and the capacity is roughly 6-8 gallons. Haven't measured it yet.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:07 pm
by cape man
Larry,

Gotta weigh in here with a personal experience...that small mesh screen is a real PITA if you bring in weeds with your castnet, or have a bunch of what we call white bait in the well, as the scales will clog it up pretty fast. I had the exact screen in the old boat and used my leatherman to open up a bunch of the mesh to try to get the scales and debris to move out, but finally gave up. I don't have a pic of my solution, but will post one as soon as I can. I have switched to making my own strainers using PVC that screws into, or slips inside a standard thru hull. Put a cap on the end and use a saw to cut slits in the sides similar to a well point. Make the slits wide enough for any debris to get through, but thin enough to keep the smallest baits you might use in. Dogfish's 1/4 holes will also do the trick, but you can move more water through a bunch of slits. We use the same method for draining our fish tanks at the hatchery.

Now, with all that said...no scales, no weeds, no debris...that is one purdy, very nautical strainer 8) :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:24 pm
by Dog Fish
Cape Man, I did the same thing with my bait tank in my Hatteras, only I had a stand pipe so I put 4 slits at the bottom of the pipe and a pvc cap with holes on top for the same reasons you mentioned. I had two 1500 gph pumps, one was a back up.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:31 pm
by Dog Fish
Murry wrote:I'm going with a simple recirculating system Brian.

A five gallon bucket is essential boat equipment for me with I use to fill the bait well. I'll use a stand pipe to maintain proper level and fill as needed. On hot days I can always add ice to the bait well to keep the bait from getting to hot.

I'm using a 500 gph pump for recirculation and the capacity is roughly 6-8 gallons. Haven't measured it yet.
Daniel my bad, I remember now from your GF16 thread. I am slipping in and out of this coma again.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
I found a nice overflow strainer for a 1 1/2" thru-hull fitting, got it on the way. This sucker won't clog 8)
I'm going with a simple recirculating system Brian.

A five gallon bucket is essential boat equipment for me wich I use to fill the baitwell. I'll use a stand pipe to maintane proper level and fill as needed. On hot days I can always add ice to the baitwell to keep the bait from getting to hot.

I'm using a 500 gph pump for recirculation and the capacity is roughly 6-8 gallons. Haven't measured it yet.
That is a really nice bait tank, but you should go ahead right now and convert it to a continuous flow through system :wink: Do you fish mostly in fresh or salt water? What kinds of bait? Down here in the salt, a recirculating system can't hold nearly the bait as a continuous flow, especially in the hot months. The water just doesn't have enough oxygen in it and fish need a lot. Recirculating systems will only carry a small amount of bait for a short time. OK for an afternoon trip but not serious fishing. We sometimes use ice too, but have to seal it in a plastic bag so the fresh water won't hurt the baits.

My tank is about 8 gallons and last week we had 30 something large hand sized pinfish, grunts and whiting, and 100 or so 3-4" little white bait fish of some sort, and 5 dozen shrimp in the well, over a period of 3 days and 2 nights. 90 degrees. After that we transferred what was left to Bradley, Andrew and Richard. Catching bait is time consuming and buying it is expensive. Usually a combination of both, and you can't fish without it. When you spend $50-$100 a day for bait, or several hours, it really pays to have a good bait well.

And when you come to the builders meet next year and your baitwell is full for tomorrows fishing, you don't want to have to get out of bed every hour and pour another bucket of water in it :wink: Heck, it's draining the battery anyway, might as well pump new water as old :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Gotta weigh in here with a personal experience
I believe you Craig and I thought it was too small also. I found one with slits that fits a 1 1/2" thru-hull fitting. I'm sure the homemade model using a cap would be just as good, but this one only cost $3.98 and comes pre-slitted 8)

Image
that is one purdy, very nautical strainer


Well, it's one step above galvanized chicken wire and 5200 anyway :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:12 pm
by Murry
Cracker Larry wrote:I found a nice overflow strainer for a 1 1/2" thru-hull fitting, got it on the way. This sucker won't clog 8)
I'm going with a simple recirculating system Brian.

A five gallon bucket is essential boat equipment for me wich I use to fill the baitwell. I'll use a stand pipe to maintane proper level and fill as needed. On hot days I can always add ice to the baitwell to keep the bait from getting to hot.

I'm using a 500 gph pump for recirculation and the capacity is roughly 6-8 gallons. Haven't measured it yet.
That is a really nice bait tank, but you should go ahead right now and convert it to a continuous flow through system :wink: Do you fish mostly in fresh or salt water? What kinds of bait? Down here in the salt, a recirculating system can't hold nearly the bait as a continuous flow, especially in the hot months. The water just doesn't have enough oxygen in it and fish need a lot. Recirculating systems will only carry a small amount of bait for a short time. OK for an afternoon trip but not serious fishing. We sometimes use ice too, but have to seal it in a plastic bag so the fresh water won't hurt the baits.

My tank is about 8 gallons and last week we had 30 something large hand sized pinfish, grunts and whiting, and 100 or so 3-4" little white bait fish of some sort, and 5 dozen shrimp in the well, over a period of 3 days and 2 nights. 90 degrees. After that we transferred what was left to Bradley, Andrew and Richard. Catching bait is time consuming and buying it is expensive. Usually a combination of both, and you can't fish without it. When you spend $50-$100 a day for bait, or several hours, it really pays to have a good bait well.

And when you come to the builders meet next year and your baitwell is full for tomorrows fishing, you don't want to have to get out of bed every hour and pour another bucket of water in it :wink: Heck, it's draining the battery anyway, might as well pump new water as old :lol:
You just had to rain on my "I'm done with phase 1 (construction) parade" didn't you. :P
I'm kidding of course! You present a very convincing argument here Larry and I have thought of a plan to make the conversion
at a later date if I decided to upgrade the system, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to make that change at this phase of the game.

I have a couple of questions concerning those changes that I'd like to run by everyone, shall I post them here or should I jump to my thread? I don't want to hijack your thread for my decisions.

Thanks
Daniel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:25 pm
by dborecky
Larry,

Now that I think of it, it may not be chicken wire but square or rectangular galvanized wire mesh... :wink: All I know is that you don't see it and it does not get clogged nor does bait escape... 8) It also keeps the bait alive with continuous fresh water....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:37 pm
by Dog Fish
Hey Daniel, I am with Larry so just add it to phase 1 :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:45 pm
by BassMunn
Have to agree with Larry on the livewell flow through system.
I might be new at boat building but I've done my fair share of tournament fishing and a flow through system is critical to keeping fish happy.
Apart from the fact that the oxygen levels drop to low with an enclosed system, when fish are under stress they excrete lactic acid along with other nasties that degrade the water quality.
I run a timer on my filler pump and only use my recirculating pump when running on plane.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:52 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry I used one of those black plastic ones before, I just had to drill some holes on the front face to keep up with the pump. But I was using a 1100 gph on that baitwell. I did break one of those little tabs after about a year, but I liked it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
You just had to rain on my "I'm done with phase 1 (construction) parade" didn't you.


Sorry :oops: but you'll be happier if you handle it now. Nice bait tank like that needs plenty of fresh water.
I have a couple of questions concerning those changes that I'd like to run by everyone, shall I post them here or should I jump to my thread? I don't want to hijack your thread for my decisions.
No problem here, carry on 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:57 pm
by cape man
Well, it's one step above galvanized chicken wire and 5200 anyway
That it is. Just because your nomicer is Cracker doesn't mean you have to always behave like one :lol: :lol: Think your gonna be happy with the slotted strainer. I got tied up this evening and don't have a pic of the one I scored, but it's actually a bit bigger and designed to fit a 1 1/2" outlet as well. Just HATE it when the bait well starts flowing out the lid. :x :x :x

Bassmun, you definitely need a flow through system with that sweet well you built. It made me jealous to watch you build it (a circular well can hold a TON more bait than a rectangular one. Easy to do, especially now. To be honest I can't believe with all the time you spent on making it you were even considering filling it with a bucket.

I am a live bait freak, often spending as much time catching bait as fishing with it. A good bait well is something to be proud of on any fishing boat.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:10 pm
by Murry
Cracker Larry wrote:
You just had to rain on my "I'm done with phase 1 (construction) parade" didn't you.


Sorry :oops: but you'll be happier if you handle it now. Nice bait tank like that needs plenty of fresh water.
I have a couple of questions concerning those changes that I'd like to run by everyone, shall I post them here or should I jump to my thread? I don't want to hijack your thread for my decisions.
No problem here, carry on 8)
Thank You Sir.

I was just kidding you, I appreciate you looking out for me and I know my gf appreciates it. She wants to be built right. 8)

I've had revervations about having a through hull water pickup for some reason. I just didn't like the idea of having something protruding out of the bottom, I guess if I stick with something low profile the strakes would still be the lowest point. :doh: What would you guys do for a through hull? (keep in mind, it would have to be located in the middle seat compartment and it would be located just starboard of the starboard side strake.) I would think the through hull would have to have a filter built in to protect the pump. Any suggestions?

As far as layout, I would like to keep the setup I currently have to be able to recirculate when needed, so I figure I have two options.

1. Install a dual inlet baitwell fitted to sea cock that would fitted to the through hull, and then I could plumb the recirculation port (where my pump is located now) to the other inlet of the baitwell with a second valve located inbetween the pump and baitwell. Down side is that I would have move two valves to change circulation modes. (alot of hardware for a small compartment, there would be enough room though)

2. Plumb both the sea cock and recircuation port to a three way valve and have a remotely mounted single inlet pump between the three way and the baitwell inlet. I would still have a ball valve at the throughhull for emergencies but I could leave that open when recirculating with this arangement. The pump would need to be self priming though, as it would be above the water line.

Also as far as botom thickness. I could glue a piece of half inch ply in that comparment to give me 3/4 of an inch of floor to mount the throuh hull. Would that be thick enough or should I make it an inch. it isn't that large of an area so it wouldn't be that much weight added. The thicker floor will help in a couple of ways that I'll expain later.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks,
Daniel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:15 pm
by Murry
cape man wrote:


Bassmun, you definitely need a flow through system with that sweet well you built. It made me jealous to watch you build it (a circular well can hold a TON more bait than a rectangular one. Easy to do, especially now. To be honest I can't believe with all the time you spent on making it you were even considering filling it with a bucket.
I'm just glad Shannon's getting the blame for using my bucket for filling. :P :lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:41 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Image[/quote]

Larry, I have one of those in my truck. I think you might have saw it while we were making a supply run to the Boca store :lol:

I think your livewell worked great. It kept the whitebait alive overnight. Most production livewells do not have enough clean water to keep whitebait alive for more than 6 hours.

The only thing I would change would be a stand pipe with a screen for overnight use. Set the standpipe two inches below the side overflow. When you are fishing replace the standpipe with a plug so you don't have the pipe in the way of netting shrimp or bait. For an extra safety margin use the existing overflow unscreened as the emergency overflow. Then put in a screened overflow an inch below as the emergency overflow. Just an opinion of the way it could be done...

Richard

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:48 am
by Cracker Larry
What would you guys do for a through hull? (keep in mind, it would have to be located in the middle seat compartment and it would be located just starboard of the starboard side strake.) I would think the through hull would have to have a filter built in to protect the pump. Any suggestions?
I used a scoop type low profile fitting, like this.

Image

It has a strainer for big chunks, but no filter. The pump is removable to clean the impeller. Being a scoop, it will pick up water when the boat is moving, so self priming is not an issue. I used 3/4 ply as a backing block.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:34 am
by Murry
That's nice Larry :!:

Do you think something like that would have any noticable effect on performance.

That may be a silly question. :doh:

I looked in my paxton catalog last night and wasn't able to find a three way valve, has anyone ever run across one or used one.

Thanks

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:47 am
by Cracker Larry

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:03 pm
by Murry
Thank you very much Sir,

You just killed two birds with one stone, by posting that link, Larry That valve would be perfect and the 3 inch throuh hull with strainer on that same page is exactly what I would need to make the recirculation mode work. I'm thinking the 500gph surflo pump remotely mounted with both the sea cock and strainer in the well plumbed to the three way. I'll just mount the pump between the sprayer and three way.

I didn't see where the surflo pump was self priming. I want to able to fill the well while sitting still as well. :doh: I guess I can call them.

Do you see and problems or limitations with that plumbing layout?

Thanks again for the link.

On that scoop mount, did you use the fastener holes towards the front also or did you just caulk and rely on the flange nut. I would think 5200 and that flange nut would be enough. :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm almost certain the surflow pumps are self priming. My Rule is not, but it's never failed to prime and it's about 4" above waterline. Once it's primed, it stays primed.
On that scoop mount, did you use the fastener holes towards the front also or did you just caulk and rely on the flange nut. I would think 5200 and that flange nut would be enough.
Yes, I used screws in the holes. Same old drill-fill-redrill in the hull bottom. The reason is, fittings that protrude from the hull are vulnerable to being sheared off if you strike anything, like an old waterlogged dock timber just below the surface. The screws resist the shearing force and the fitting will crush, instead of leaving you with a hole in the bottom of the boat :help:

Them are gonna be some happy baits now 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:53 pm
by Murry
Yes, I used screws in the holes. Same old drill-fill-redrill in the hull bottom. The reason is, fittings that protrude from the hull are vulnerable to being sheared off if you strike anything, like an old waterlogged dock timber just below the surface. The screws resist the shearing force and the fitting will crush, instead of leaving you with a hole in the bottom of the boat
Thanks for explaining that. Consider it done then.

I take it you don't see any other concerns with my plan then, so this will be one of the first things I tackle in August.
As usual, thanks again for the help :!:
Them are gonna be some happy baits now
No reason why they shouldn't enjoy there last hours. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:04 pm
by BassMunn
Murry wrote:
cape man wrote:


Bassmun, you definitely need a flow through system with that sweet well you built. It made me jealous to watch you build it (a circular well can hold a TON more bait than a rectangular one. Easy to do, especially now. To be honest I can't believe with all the time you spent on making it you were even considering filling it with a bucket.
I'm just glad Shannon's getting the blame for using my bucket for filling. :P :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: But, But, It's not me :lol: :lol: Cape Man I have a very square livewell :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:57 pm
by cape man
My bad. Someone on this forum just built a BEAUTIFUL circular tank. Who was it? :help: :help: After the change in this web page and search modes, I am easily confused....heck who am I kidding...I've always been easily confused 8O 8O . Even if it's square, you need water in, water out. Going to your thread now. Sorry for the hijack Larry, but you need a couple more posts to keep your record going 8) 286 pages...who would have thunk.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:19 am
by AD16 The Opportunist
Hi Cape man, maybe is this what you are searching for?

http://forums.bateau2.com/forum/viewtop ... 12&t=17910



Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:22 am
by Murry
cape man wrote:My bad. Someone on this forum just built a BEAUTIFUL circular tank. Who was it?
You'll never hear me call anything I've built or made BEAUTIFUL, but if that's the one you're talking about, that was me.

I was jokingly thanking you earlier for giving Bassmunn the credit for using the "filling bucket" when actually it was me.

That's funny. :lol: :lol:

I thank I have now successfully stolen the last couple of pages of Mr Cracker Larry's thread. :oops:

Daniel (murry's gf16)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:16 am
by Cracker Larry
Time to bring this thread out and shake the dust off :lol: I started this report 2 hours ago, lost my internet connection and everything I typed. Will have to start over :( Should have used Word.

I've been using No Excuse hard and regular for the last 6 months, but last week my wife and I decided to take a long trip and really give her a shakedown. We wanted to make Ocracoke on the outer banks, but due to weather and time we only made it to Cape Fear, NC.

First some performance numbers. I've been thinking I was getting close to 10 mpg on most days, but I'd never filled the 40 gallon tank past half way, never needed to. Last week I was able to completely fill it 5 times, once each running day, so now I know exactly what she burns. I kept track of the hours, miles, and fuel.

We were gone 7 days and spent 5 days running, 2 days resting. We ran a total of 827 miles in 49.8 engine hours. Burned a total of 124 gallons of fuel for an average of 2.48 gph and 6.7 mpg. Not bad. Also burned just under 2 gallons of oil.

Our best days run was 215 miles in 8 hours. Average speed 26.8 mph. Burned 24 gallons, average of 3 gph and 8.95 mpg. Excellent 8) Not 10, but close. Old technology 2 stroke Yamaha does pretty good.

Our worst day's run was 87 miles in 10 hours. Average speed 8.7 mph. Burned 17 gallons for an average of 1.7 gph and 5.11 mpg. Not great, but not bad running into 12' seas. This gives us a worse case range of 200 miles and a best case of about 350. Plenty for the Bahamas 8)

We were loaded heavy with full fuel, extra oil, 10 days worth of clothes and necessaries for 2 people, 5 days worth of food and drinks, plus tools, spares, and who knows what. Everything stowed in the lockers, except the Medusa's duffle, which filled up the 100 quart Igloo cooler. I wanted to be sure her clothes stayed dry. If mine get wet, I'm just a little uncomfortable, but if hers got wet I'd be downright miserable :wink:

To be continued.....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:36 am
by hwsiii
Larry, you might be interested in getting one of these, as it will let you know instant fuel use at all times as well as total fuel used at all times. Knowing the most fuel effiicient speed will help you save a bundle of money every time you use the boat.

Northstar F210

Image

Here is one place you can buy it.
http://www.boatersland.com/f210.html

Here is the operators manual.
http://www.northstarnav.com/upload/Nort ... s/F210.pdf


H

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:23 am
by cape man
Numbers like these are making me very happy! I can't wait to see what this hull will do with a 40 4-stroke! Not the speed (I know you'll win that one) so much as the range with a 29 gallon tank. Bahamas here we come! Heck, let's run to Cuba when they open it up. We'll stay away from Marielle 8O 8O Thanks for posting. Glad this thread has something new on it! Love watching the other build, but the performance numbers here are good to get and very encouraging.

You said once you wished you had put a spray rail on. Are you still there, and if so, what are your thoughts on it? Where is the water breaking up? I keep looking at mine and thinking it would be easy to install one with temporary screws and then plug the holes. Maybe match my gunwales with a long piece of the poplar?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:52 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry, you might be interested in getting one of these,
That's exactly what I need H, it would certainly pay for itself. That's a lot better price than a Floscan unit I was looking at 8)
You said once you wished you had put a spray rail on. Are you still there, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?
Yep, still wishing I had done that. It's a wet ride to windward. The big rubber rub rail helps some, but it would be better to turn the water before it gets that high and the wind picks it up. I don't know how much it would help, but it would have to help some.
Heck, let's run to Cuba when they open it up. We'll stay away from Marielle
I'd love to go back to Cuba in better times 8) But I'd stay away from Mariel! I can still smell that harbor, almost 30 years later :cry:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:22 am
by plumbertuck
I love the long range bateau adventures... I am looking at a 40 mile river trip in Alabama, not nearly the Bahamas or Outer Banks stuff but adequate for for my abilities at this time. Thanks for the post Larry !

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Just work up to it Tuck, a little at a time. 40 miles is a good starter trip, then you'll want to make 100 :D

Continuing on with this report a bit...

We launched at Clyo, GA in an oxbow lake off the Savannah River called Tuckassee King. 55 river miles north of Savannah. Beautiful morning, lots of wildlife out. Saw eagles, osprey, hawks, herons, deer, lots of gators and turtles, a few snakes (water rattlers I think :lol: ) This is all fresh water cypress and tupelo swamps some willow in the shallow sunny spots. Willow is a handy plant, chewing on a new growth shoot has about the same painkilling effect of 2 aspirin 8) Didn't have any pains but it's good to know.

Image

Most of the dimples on the water are baby gators, they make oinking noises like little pigs to call their momma.

Moving on down the river, it's mostly dense woods with a few scattered clusters of houses and boats.

Image

Not much in the way of upscale along here. Carolina Low country on the left, GA on the right. We found the Minnow...

Image

Interesting wrecks, old and new both. This little river has killed a lot of boats over the years. So have the Indians, French, Spanish, English and American solders. Old civil war dirt forts are along the banks in many places. Every high bluff has Indian mounds. A lot of history here. This pic is at Sisters Ferry, where Gen Sherman's troops crossed the river in the siege of Savannah. Nothing much but woods now.

Image

Continued...

There used to be a lot of commercial traffic on the river, but now there is none above Savannah. Which brings us to or first obstacle about 20 miles down the river.

Image

A low railroad bridge I had failed to take into account 8O It used to be manned daylight to dark, now the sign says call 1-800-SCREWED 24 hours in advance for opening. Poor planning on my part :oops:

So we eased up to it and read the bridge-o-meter which said 7'3". It looked possible so I dropped the antennas and we eased up closer. Idling in reverse, current running with us about 3 mph.

Image

It became obvious that the top would clear but the GPS and LORAN couplers and mounts wouldn't, so we took those loose and rotated them down, and eased up to it again and fit the front of the T-top under, but dang it all, the rod holders wouldn't clear. :? And they are welded on. Only needed 3 inches but didn't have it.

Mrs. Cracker was beginning to question my lack of planning and seamanship in a not so friendly manner, so I figured I better get under that bridge. Not to worry, I told her to stand on the gunwale and tell me when it was clear. She looks at me in disgust, and I just laugh, said watch your head, and I pulled all 3 drain plugs :lol:

Glug, glug, glug, here's a good use for low scuppers. I eased back to the bridge, steady sinking. It took about a minute for the rod holders to clear, and we drifted on through 8) Got back on a plane and drained the water, then stopped to regroup and put the boat back together. Made our first drink of the day.

An hour later we came to another RR bridge just like it, and had to repeat the procedure :lol:

See there Tuck, ya just learn as you go. I should know better :oops:

Continued.....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:01 pm
by Murry
Larry,

Thanks for the pictures buddy. What a great trip. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:32 pm
by TomW
Great lazy river start Larry.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:37 pm
by flatpicker
Cracker Larry wrote: Continued...
I've got my bag of popcorn and sprite! :D Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the rest of the report.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:45 pm
by peter-curacao
flatpicker wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote: Continued...
I've got my bag of popcorn and sprite! :D Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the rest of the report.
Me too :) beautiful pic's beautiful surroundings beautiful sky (pic 2) beautiful boat 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:14 pm
by michaelwpayton
Great trip report so far... keep it coming.

I noticed Mrs. Cracker's "unbelizeable" t-shirt, you spend much time down there? A friend and I have a house there, in Hopkins, we love it. That OD18 would look good beached at our house :-)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:41 pm
by RickW
*grabs popcorn and a 6 of diet mtn dew* That part of the country is awesome, love the pics. Funny, as I was reading the low bridge part I thought "pull the plug and sink'er" and that's exactly what you did. I love it, but I knew you'd figure something out. Expected nothing less from CL.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:31 pm
by captj13
Looks like its gonna be quite a story ! Maybe it should be a new thread: " The adventures of Cracker Larry's OD 18 "

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Looks like its gonna be quite a story ! Maybe it should be a new thread: " The adventures of Cracker Larry's OD 18 "
No movie material here Capt. J, no pirates, no life threatening situations, just living easy 8) One never knows what the future may bring, though :lol:
I noticed Mrs. Cracker's "unbelizeable" t-shirt, you spend much time down there? A friend and I have a house there, in Hopkins, we love it. That OD18 would look good beached at our house
Not as much time as we would like, but as much as we can. We had a place in San Pedro Town, on Ambergris Caye for several years, but we sold it a while back in favor of Costa Rica. We were looking at it for retirement, I love Belize and the people and the water, but the politics and economics aren't conducive to foreigners doing any kind of work, and I've got to work at something even if I'm retired. They won't even issue me a Captains license. And that little island, it get's real little after a while :roll: Costa Rica has more long term opportunities for us, so we've been going there more lately.

I know Hopkins is an old Garifuna fishing village, a beautiful place and people. I've only been there once, and have never spent much time on the mainland at all, only the Cayes. As soon as I can get the Medusa to retire, we'll be seeing more of Belize.
Great lazy river start Larry.

Tom
Yes it is :D That's going to change pretty soon.

As we move down the river a few more miles it starts getting brackish and tidal. The heavy woods gives way to marshes and islands. Most of this property along the river is now the Savannah National Wildlife Refuge, about 30,000 acres of it anyway. It extends from the freshwater line, all the way down to Savannah on both sides of the river.

http://www.fws.gov/savannah/

Image

It's nice through here, but too soon we start approaching Savannah and getting into the industry along the river. I'll spare you photos of coal power plants, paper mills, sugar refinery, titanium dioxide plant and other detriments to our nice day. It insults the senses.

One more bridge and we enter the Port of Savannah, one of the busiest shipping ports on the east coast. Can't be fooling around in here, the water traffic is steady with tugs and large ships and the channel is narrow. There is a lot of floating logs, stumps and junk in the river and the current runs about 5 kts. Homeland security is all over the docks and in boats too. Not a place to be learning here, Tuck :wink: We talk to the tugs and ships on Ch.13 VHF, Homeland security on 22A, they want to know my intentions :doh: I intend to drink another rum drink or 2 and make Beaufort today.

Image

The ports extend for at least 5 miles, maybe more, and makes us feel very small..

Image

After getting through the worst of it we come to the Talmadge Bridge and the waterfront tourist district of downtown Savannah. It has everything you love about tourist districts, including the tourists, so we keep going...

Image

Continued....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:28 pm
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:I love Belize and the people and the water, but the politics and economics aren't conducive to foreigners doing any kind of work, and I've got to work at something even if I'm retired. They won't even issue me a Captains license. And that little island, it get's real little after a while :roll:
I know my Island isn't big either but you should really consider it, serious. 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:49 pm
by BassMunn
Larry type faster :lol:

You got salt in them veins. What a cool expedition

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:19 pm
by TomW
Oh my big ships! Bet you were glad to get gone from that stretch and have it behind you. :D

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:53 pm
by cape man
but dang it all, the rod holders wouldn't clear.
And that's why you have that top instead of me! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Love the solution you came up with...like letting the air out of the tires on the truck stuck in the tunnel. Took guts and confidence in your boat. Rock on!

By the way....blew up the picture at Truman Annex and could not ID you. Your boat?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
blew up the picture at Truman Annex and could not ID you. Your boat?
No, just a similar photo I grabbed off the net. When they held my boat in Mariel, they took or destroyed almost everything but the clothes on our back. Especially weapons, radios and cameras. What they didn't get in Cuba, they impounded in Key West and we lost the rest of it, so I've got no personal pictures of that mess. Oh well. We made 17 good trips before they got us :wink: Helped a lot of people to be better off. People used to run from governments like that, now they vote for them. I don't understand it. :doh: Shut up Larry.
You got salt in them veins.
And mud between my toes :lol:
Oh my big ships! Bet you were glad to get gone from that stretch and have it behind you.
Yep, big ships, and not behind us yet, they go all the way to the ocean and so do we. 20 more miles to the sea. They never quit, unless a hurricane. Radio says we have 2 waiting inbound and one outbound. They are a bigger hazard down river because they are under their own power, up here they are mostly pushed around by tugs. The channel is very narrow and about 55 feet deep. These 1,000' ships fill it up wall to wall and top to bottom. They suck all the water out ahead of them and it will drop 15 or 20 feet in depth, then the whole river comes back in behind them like a tidal wave. Not much they can do about it, as they have to keep enough speed to maintain steerageway, which may be 15 or 20 knots when running down stream. Really not a good place for small boats, from the ports all the way out to sea, but this is the river we live on and the river the Medusa said we was going down, so here we are. :lol: They can't even see a boat our size from the bridge unless it's a mile off, much less avoid it, so we talk to them on the radio just to make us feel better :lol: Not a place to learn boat handling. And we'll get to do it again in Charleston Harbor.

Continued...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Downtown Savannah, waterfront and historic district. There's always a tourist drinking party going on here, this weekend is a micro-brewery beer fest. Each tent is a different brewery, with free beer tasting. Next month it will be Octoberfest and they'll do it again.

Image

All of a sudden the wind and the chop are starting to kick up. It's been calm until now.

Image

We put Savannah behind us and listen to NOAA. Wind has picked up to about 15 from the east, current is running strong against it and we're having to slow down. NOAA still says SE at less than 10, seas less than 3. We're heading for the ocean.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:45 pm
by TomW
Larry never been in or out of Savannah harbor. Know Norfolk and Charleston. Didn't realize the channel at Savannah was that narrow. I'd hate to be bridge officer on one of those big boys. With your draft can you not run outside the channel or does it shoal to fast. It sort of sounds like it may shoal if the main channel is kept at 55' and narrow. Well on the other hand you also probably have docks in that last part of the river you showed and can't leave the channel.

Ah boat talk makes a man long for the sea! 8)

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:19 am
by Cracker Larry
There is really just channel and bank. The banks are spoil islands created from constant dredging, reinforced with rip-rap. I can run in a foot of water, but I've got to allow for a 20' drop in water level when approaching a ship, so I don't want to be anywhere close to the bank or it will leave us dry, then smash me with a big following wave. Been there, done that. Better to run close to the ship in deep water.

This is Ft. Jackson, a little downriver from Savannah. We lost :( You can see the concrete rubble along the bank, this is the way most of the channel edge is for the next 15 miles.

Image

No docks at all from here to the ocean, they couldn't withstand the wakes. Just rock and sand. The river is seldom more than 100 yards wide.
I'd hate to be bridge officer on one of those big boys.
No kidding, that's beyond my comfort level 8O

Image

I don't know how they do it without more accidents than they have. Actually the bridge officer does nothing in here but hope for the best. The ships are met offshore by a pilot boat and a local bar pilot goes aboard. He is responsible for getting the vessel over the bar and into the channel. Then he is replaced with a harbor pilot who get's the ship up the river and to the port, then he is replaced by a docking pilot who is in charge of docking and securing the ship. Outbound the process is reversed. I know a few of these pilots, they've got a sweet job. The OOD is under control of the pilots until the ship is back at sea. Of course the Capt. or OOD can always overrule the pilot, since the Capt. is always responsible for his ship, but a responsible Capt, knows when to let someone else do it. someone who does it every day.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:21 am
by gk108
I've been over on River St. feeding music to those tourists before. Just watching a ship going up river between the old power house and that bridge is quite a sight. It's unbelieveable how much it takes to turn a ship around that little bend in the river. Some can't do anything without tugs, others get about crossways before a tug comes and swings the bow for them. 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:15 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, it's amazing to watch. The tug Capts. are very good at what they do, and they keep a fleet of them ready

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:53 am
by TomW
I also wouldn't mind making the money those pilots make or have there working hours. :D The ones i got to know in Norfolk only worked about 3 days a week but that included weekends depending on the rotation, they were kept fresh and ready to go like you said Larry they had all the pressure of getting the ship where she was supposed to go and once they took over it was totally their resposibility and their companies insurance that took over. Don't know if it's still that way. it takes years for those guys to get their pilots license for those big ships.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:19 am
by chicagoross
Fantastic trip, story, pics, and philosophy, Larry! Thanks for sharing!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:17 am
by topwater
Love it CL keep it coming... 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:38 am
by flatpicker
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:39 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:
I'd hate to be bridge officer on one of those big boys.
No kidding, that's beyond my comfort level 8O
On the other hand those big boys can become very small :?
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:18 am
by michaelwpayton
Virginia Pilot heading in to the office...

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 2837&pos=0

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:42 pm
by ks8
I can run in a foot of water, but I've got to allow for a 20' drop in water level when approaching a ship, so I don't want to be anywhere close to the bank or it will leave us dry, then smash me with a big following wave. Been there, done that. Better to run close to the ship in deep water.
That's the sort of thing that becomes very intuitive, once you have had the experience. Thanks for the tip, on the back of your experience! :? :)

I knew a man who was studying to be a NY pilot. He had experience in the south, around the delta with barges, as a mate, and wanted to take the plunge for capt and pilot. They handed him a traced outline of NY harbor and basically said, as part of the test, that he needs to completely fill it in from memory. Buoys, depths, channels, hazards, aids, you name it. With the responsibility they bear, that sounds reasonable. Certainly something you throw your life into. I also hear it is a very exclusive group that ability alone will not get you into, for better or worse, but that's just the ignorance talkin'. :|

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:26 pm
by TomW
Yea Mike that was a calm day, just think of the hazards when the seas are running 5-10' and they still have to grab that ladder, they earn there pay.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
I also hear it is a very exclusive group that ability alone will not get you into, for better or worse, but that's just the ignorance talkin'
No ignorance talking there KS, you're right on the money :wink: At least around here. You are born into that job, it's not something you can decide to be. I know 2 different families of pilots, one man I've known all my life is a bar pilot. His daddy and grand daddy and great grand were all bar pilots and he's got 3 sons. 2 of them are bar pilots and one is a maritime attorney. Their sons will be bar pilots too. The same situation with the harbor pilots. They all have the same last name. Every one of them. The tugboat business is the same way, 2 families control all the towing and docking. They have a 200 year history with the shipping companies, politicians, labor unions and port authority. There's no chance of an outsider breaking up that gravy train for another 200 years. Well, not unless Obama decides he wants a tugboat business to round out his portfolio. :P

I've got a 100 ton masters license with a towboat endorsement, and I couldn't get a job as a deck hand on the ports. Just wasn't born right. I tried a few times to get in that door, always thought it would be better than shrimping :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:57 pm
by plumbertuck
I sit here wide eyed and ready for the next post.... 8O what a lesson,
my biggest issue in my Coosa run would be hitting a deadhead or running out of fuel.... I once found a story online about a carolina skiff trip from memphis to the gulf, they did not accurately describe barge and skiff traffic... a whole new perspective with this one.

Thanks Larry !

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:00 pm
by peter-curacao
TomW wrote:Yea Mike that was a calm day, just think of the hazards when the seas are running 5-10' and they still have to grab that ladder, they earn there pay.

Tom
Like this you mean Tom? :?
Image

I wonder if they are using the pingpong ball scuppers :P Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
my biggest issue in my Coosa run would be hitting a deadhead
Yeah, that's the biggest issue coming down the Savannah also. Got to take it easy, pay attention and carry a spare prop. I find myself dodging every ripple, thinking it's a log. Running out of fuel :doh: Nah, you ain't gonna do that in 40 miles :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
a carolina skiff trip from memphis to the gulf, they did not accurately describe barge and skiff traffic... a whole new perspective with this one.
They may have, that's an entirely different type of vessel used in the inland rivers, they have to be relatively shallow drafted for the river. These container ships draft from 30-55 feet of water 8O The newer ones draft over 60'. When they run down a 60' deep channel, they make a big moving hole in the water. All of our inland barges and tugs draft less than 12 feet, that's the controlling depth of the intracoastal waterway, so they don't create nearly the disturbance.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:02 pm
by peter-curacao
I heard that the big mamoet tankers that have to port in Rotterdam Netherlands, shut down their engines somewhere near Spain and start to brake (engines backwards) near France to come to a complete stop near Rotterdam.This is what I heard, don't know the bragging level in this story but with draft's and (freight) mass like those ships have and handle, I can imagine a bit

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:27 pm
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:
I also hear it is a very exclusive group that ability alone will not get you into, for better or worse, but that's just the ignorance talkin'
No ignorance talking there KS, you're right on the money :wink: At least around here. You are born into that job, it's not something you can decide to be.
This did make me think about the time I still lived in the Netherlands, when I worked there I did a lot off work on production and drilling rigs new builds and renovation,that was all at the shore side, but once I had to go on sea to do a job 8) , but before that I had to go to course to get my "logboekje (don't know the name in English) learning all the safety procedures, running through burning rooms, hold your breath under water no problem 8) ,but then I had to sit in a safety raft hey no problem I liked roller coasters also :wink: , but then it falls and falls and falls and ... I don't know how many meters down before it plunges in the water, for my feeling thousands and thousands of meters, almost shit my pants :?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:31 pm
by TomW
The Mississippi channel is maintained at 12' for barges from Minneapolis/St. Paul to at least Memphis I am not sure exactly when it deapens for the ocean goers at New Orleans. Some places they have to dredge others there are no problems. Checked the water level at the cabin this afternoon an it was at 7.8 ft. at the cabin at Burlington, IA.

Peter the number I have for the stopping time for a super tanker is 7 miles from cruise speed of about 18 knots. So your not far off. :lol:

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:36 pm
by peter-curacao
TomW wrote: Peter the number I have for the stopping time for a super tanker is 7 miles from cruise speed of about 18 knots. So your not far off. :lol:

Tom
Spain and France aren't big Tom but not that small :P so I guess that captain did a lot of bragging towards me, or he had a old shitty ship :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
I don't know the distances involved there, but I know it takes these between 5 and 10 miles to come to a stop running in reverse, depending on their load. It takes them about 3 miles to turn 90 degrees. That's about 15 boat lengths.

Time to get this thread out of the shipping channel and into more pleasant waters :lol:

Image

We decided to take a short offshore leg, out Tybee inlet and then north to Bloody Point inlet at Daufuskie Island, just to get the funk out, so we cruised down past the Intracoastal waterway at Fields Cut, down past Fort Pulaski and out to sea. Fort Pulaski was supposed to be a state of the art, impregnable fort, built of 25 million bricks by slaves of the US army. Sister fort to Ft. Jefferson in the Dry Tortugas. It was taken over by the Confederacy at the start of the war, and held until 1862, when the Union fleet first utilyzed rifled cannon and pounded it with 5,275 ( I kid you not, look it up) rifled cannon shells in 2 days, until Johnny Reb called uncle.

http://www.nps.gov/fopu/index.htm

They pretty much gave up on brick fort building after that. My pictures here were crappy, too much spray on the lense, so here's someone elses. We came out the channel you can see on the north side of the fort. This is the main shipping channel, you can see how narrow it is.

Image

The wind was whipping in through here fairly stiff and we were getting wet, a north east breeze against a strong outgoing current. Full moon this weekend and big tides, over 9 feet make for stronger than usual currents. It was a warm and pleasant sort of wet, seas were about 2-4 and comfortable but the wind was kicking. We listened to the weather forcasts again and it was unchanged, SE less than 10, seas less than 3. Uh huh.

Cleared the jetties and turned north, running up the beach front at Turtle Island with a beam sea we strolled up to Bloody Point inlet on the south end of Daufuskie Island, about 10 miles. It's small, shallow and unmarked, but we've run it 50 times in years past. Did I mention this boat likes a following sea? So do we :D Cleared the bar there and got inside where we could build a drink and dry out a little.

Image

Then took Mungeon Creek over to the Intracoastal at the Cooper River and headed north up Daufuskie.

Image

Still drying out but she's still smiling :D

Image

Nice and calm in here, and a thousand square miles of salt marsh. I love it. :lol:

Continued, of course.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:03 am
by TomW
Your in pretty country now Larry I know Daufuskie is just south of Hilton Head! Now you can relax till Charleston. A two or three days or so depending on the meandering! :D It took Deb and I that long to drive it one year just exploring the coast when we lived in Charleston.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:00 am
by Cracker Larry
Now you can relax till Charleston
:lol: :lol: Yeah, right. This day still has a long ways to go, it's only noon, and you haven't even met Calibogue or Port Royal sounds. Tomorrow gets worse but we're getting ahead of ourself.

I've got a lot of history here on Daufuskie Island, we go way back, 45 years and more, I'm trying to decide how much I want to talk about. I could write an book, but Pat Conroy already did. Two of them in fact. They ruined Daufuskie, mine would be better. I could write some songs, but my friend Jimmy Buffet did that and he's a much better song writer than I am. I showed him the white porpoise though, and the moon and sun in apposition and concordance. And the bulldozers plowing up slave graves to build condos and golf courses. If you listen to his Prince of Tides album, you'll find a lot of me. Dori almost drowned here at Bloody Point, 30 years ago and I almost drowned pulling her out. I once lost a good dog here for 3 days and wouldn't go home until I found him, causing Dori to lose a job because she wouldn't leave me. My best friend shot himself in the foot with a shotgun here. Another best friend shot a hole in his boat and lost it here. I got snakebit here, right on my @ss by a copperhead, and thought I might die. Got kicked in the head by a deer and nearly died another time. Overdosed on island moonshine once or twice and wished I died. Wasn't any doctors here back then. They don't call this Bloody Point for nothing.

We're going to stop and try to visit some old friends, see if I can still speak Gullah. It's been too long, 20 years too long since I was last here. Where have we been? The tourist still don't know about this place and I hope they never find it. Not that they'd stop anyway, or be welcomed. The lady who owns this house is Miz Jimmy, her husband Ezra used to be my Dad's first mate until he got killed on Staniel Cay by some Columbians, back when I was 17, which could make another book depending on the statue of limitations. That's been 40 years ago now. She was like an aunt to me, many years back, and he taught me more about being a waterman than any other person I can recall. The bright colors of the houses are supposed to ward off evil spirits, but they don't work :doh: I can vouch for that. After 200 years they should have figured that out too, but there's always hope I guess. We can't take any more pics here, it's not polite. This aint America on this isolated part of the island, it's Gullah land and I'm going in to see if I'm still welcome. The place looks just like it did when I was here last.

Image

I realized here how much we needed this trip. I''ll decide tomorrow if we'll talk about it further, or maybe we'll just move on. In any case, the visit was good for the soul :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:04 am
by cape man
Keep writing!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:54 am
by Dog Fish
OK Larry wake-up and lets hear and see some more. Really good stuff, great reading. Thanks :!:

Brian

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:10 am
by fishin'
is that a different cooper river you speak of than the one in Charleston? Is there another I don't know about?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:23 am
by plumbertuck
I thought I had it rough on Parris Island, May 18-August 26 1988. I had a different set of animals chewing on my butt and kicking my head :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:22 am
by TomW
That is so neat Larry. Your wealth of experience is amazing. This is one stop I can understand if you keep to yourself. 8)

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:22 am
by flatpicker
Image
I think I'm gonna need a bigger bag of popcorn!

Awesome CL, thanks for taking the time to share!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, yall ain't going to believe it, but I'll share our visit anyway and you can make your own conclusions.

Dori and I are discussing going ashore, and she's real nervous about it. I tell her not to worry, Miz Jimmy will be expecting us and probably have lunch ready if we're still welcome. And what if we aren't welcome, she wants to know. No problem, there won't be anyone here if they don't want our company, they won't hurt us. And just howinhell does she know we're coming, Dori want's to know :doh: Because she just knows things, she's Wudu, a root doctor. She talks to the animals and birds and trees, or they talk to her, not sure exactly how all that works. In any case, she knows we're coming. At which point I'm told that I'm even crazier than she suspected, not the first time today :lol: Sceptics. We'll see.

I pull up to the shell beach under Dori's protest, and an old but stout black woman comes running out of the house weilding a knife. She could be 50 or 150, but she was 50 when I was a kid. She's grinning from ear to ear and shouting in non-stop gullah, which Dori doesn't understand and I have to translate what of it I could follow...

"Lord have mercy Capt. Larry, I worried you was gonna to miss lunch, jus look at you, dey told me you was coming yesterday and I didn't believe them, but they tell me again dis morning I's better start fixin da crabs, I knowed that wuz you and miz Dori when your cotton head come round up the creek, get dat lady outta dat skiff and come up to the house, Lordy thats a pretty skiff you built, named it after your daddy, sorry to hear, dey told me bout Capt Allie last year and we set a plate for him, he wuz a fine man, you just put him to peace in the river dey told me too....well don't just stand there with your jaw dropping to your tits lady get out dat boat and come up to da house...help me wid da flounder I have some trouble wid dem since I got blind."

Dori's eyes are still like saucers and she hasn't picked up her jaw yet :wink:

Continued....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:24 pm
by topwater
CL you have to write a book on your life on the water.......
I would buy it 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:26 pm
by peter-curacao
:lol: LOL :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:27 pm
by flatpicker
ImageImage

8O 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:28 pm
by flatpicker
topwater wrote:CL you have to write a book on your life on the water.......
I would buy it 8)
No doubt!!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:32 pm
by Doc_Dyer
Wow awesome story.
please continue :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:46 pm
by TomW
Larry that is what I heard or the Gullah's and when I lived in Charleston and when we made our drive down the coast, never went to there territory out of respect other on the main roads, just like now I don't go onto the Cherokee reservation. When you made a freind you made a freind for life. That is such a portent story that I about cried when I read it. I know several Cherokee from coaching there sons in midget football and they will take me fishing if I ask but not willingly, but will feed me as you describe at will and it's only been 8 years. They just don't forget!!! :D It is like you are a son and part of the family. :) I bet you had some good eats :D

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:10 pm
by Bowmovement
Larry, great story!! I am at work so no popcorn. I was eating left over filet mignon and a baked potato from last night of that counts. Hopefully there will be some more to read when I get. After a day like today I think I am going to skip the popcorn and head straight to a stiff vodka tonic.

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:38 pm
by msujmccorm
Amazing stuff Larry, as always. You should call Mr. Jimmy it's about time for a new story telling song!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:52 pm
by Bowmovement
msujmccorm wrote:Amazing stuff Larry, as always. You should call Mr. Jimmy it's about time for a new story telling song!
If you do call Mr. Jimmy, ask him why the hell he skip the west coast on his tour this year! SWMBO has never been to a Buffet concert :roll: I want to turn her into a parrot head. I haven't seen him in about 8 years. Never on the west coast. Always at Walnut Creek in Raleigh.

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:41 am
by TomW
Yea the Parrot Head's rule. When I worked for the rafting company we would have a Parrot Head week-end. It was always a blast. I don't remember if everyone got drunk and then went rafting or went rafting and then got drunk. :lol: :lol: But we had a barbeque place next door and they always supplied 50 lbs of pork and next to them was a pizza place with about 20 pizza's.

I think every Parrot Head from Atlanta, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Ashville, Charlotte. came in that weekend. They said they kept inviting the man but I don't think he ever showed. But it was fun, good music and good times.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:32 am
by tech_support
thats a place where the word "bateau" is just a common as the word "boat" or rather pronounced "bow-ut".

Cracker Larry dun made he a fine bow-ut. :)

My favorite thing about folks from that area and their heritage is their nick naming of things/people - the are very funny and very creative. In my high school we had a "bird", "mud foot", "psycho", "pickle". Each name had a story. They tell fantastic stories, get yourself a CD or book on tape if you can to hear them speak. My best friends dad speaks gullah. Other friend's granddad was a root doctor :) from Beaufort.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:46 am
by Cracker Larry
You should call Mr. Jimmy it's about time for a new story telling song!
Jimmy's the real deal, no rhinestone cowboy. His adventures on the seas exceed mine, and he's got a few stories of his own left to tell. He knows the gullah land and they know him.
If you do call Mr. Jimmy, ask him why the hell he skip the west coast on his tour this year! SWMBO has never been to a Buffet concert
Because he's a southeast sort of guy, and how many times can you ask a man to sing Margauritaville anyway :doh: It's not like he needs the money.

If it's any consolation, I've never been to a Buffet concert either, but we've picked and drank on a river bank or 3, and a boat deck here and there. Which Miz Jimmy reminded me of, and she sang one of his songs in perfect clear english, then she told me it's time to come back to the river now, been uptown to long. She's right and I reckon that's why I'm here today. You've probably heard this one :wink:

http://solosong.net/jimmy/pirate/pirate.html

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:01 am
by Cracker Larry
They tell fantastic stories, get yourself a CD or book on tape if you can to hear them speak.
Uncle Remus comes to mind. Sadly our screwed up politically correct world has banned Uncle Remus stories from the public school system. :? I'm not sure they are even in the public libraries any more.
Other friend's granddad was a root doctor from Beaufort
Miz Jimmy is also a root doctor, more commonly called a Doctor Buzzard in gullah.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:02 pm
by cape man
Grew up listening to Buffet in small outdoor bars in South Florida, often without even a cover charge. Man and a guitar with good lyrics. Never been to a concert either.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:00 pm
by JimW
I saw Jimmy B. play three times for a total cost of $2.75 (two times free and once for $2.75). UF free concerts of the mid '70s. Later my roommate played his music to DEATH and I got very tired of his songs. Can't bring myself to go to concerts after the admission price topped $10.

CL, Sounds like a great trip home!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:01 pm
by captj13
This is just great stuff ........ gotta grab me a bottle of rum for the weekend reading ! Really enjoying this Larry !!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:59 pm
by Bowmovement
Because he's a southeast sort of guy, and how many times can you ask a man to sing Margauritaville anyway It's not like he needs the money.
I agree. Not even one of his better song IMO. Theres always the next time he tours. Guess I will have to pay attention and may have to travel to see him.

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:59 pm
by cape man
Larry did you ever weigh No Excuse? I remember a couple of posts where we were all going to guess at a weight...I just got mine on the trailer and am wondering what you got. I am going to try and weigh it without the motor this week, but I bet it is well over 800 as it is 8O 8O 8O . All that extra glass and epoxy adds up 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
All that extra glass and epoxy adds up


Sure does, and I had a 5 gallon bucket full of hardware that weighed 50 pounds :lol:

Yep, I weighed her. First I weighed the trailer on a DOT scale when I picked that up, and later when I pulled the boat to pick up the motor I weighed it again on the same scale, then subtracted the trailer. Mine weighs 914 pounds with everything except the engine, prop, yamaha wiring harness, fuel and beer. Engine is 228 plus the prop about 6. I was concentrating on strong, not light :wink: Total rigged weight is 1154 pounds, dry. I think it rides better heavy anyway, mine rode nicer fueled and loaded for a week than it does loaded for an afternoon. There aren't many times when I use more than 60% of my available HP, so your 40 should work pretty good on it, will just need to get it propped right.

Trip report will be continued, maybe manana...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:32 pm
by cape man
Thanks. I think I am going to be close to that based on the effort to get her on the trailer.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:40 am
by ks8
So my boat is lighter than yours after all... :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:41 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Um., CL ? Isn't it time for the next chapter?,.. you know, story time? BTW, I'd give my left,.. whatever,.. to sit by a fire, not say a word, and listen to an evening like you described earlier,.. I'm AM an over forty victim of fate, and that, ( iMho ) is a one of his more poignant verses and one of my favorite tunes ever. Been told I sing it in my sleep somethings ( poorly I'm sure ) You are a lucky man, in many ways. More please.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Patience is a (boating) virtue :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:10 am
by chicagoross
waiting patiently... :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:00 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
waiting patiently... :D
Yeah, what he said :(

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:30 pm
by peter-curacao
ks8 wrote:So my boat is lighter than yours after all... :lol:
So you are able to keep it short ? :wink: 8) :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:55 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Three days and no word. The only possible explanation is that CL couldn't leave well enough alone and went through KS8's damn hatch... 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:42 pm
by ks8
Cape man is the one with the hatch. I just ask him to leave it alone when I've got something rigged to cure overnight. I suppose it *is possible* that odd things might happen to the BBB brew if he passes it through the hatch a few times. The ATF might want to check that out... CL might be drinking some BBB that went *through the hatch*... :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:41 pm
by Lucky_Louis
I didn't mean capeman's hatch, I meant YOUR secret hatch, identical to capeman's. Oh cmon, you didn't think you could keep hatch #2 a secret forever? But I see CL is dabbling on other threads so that means he's back. Or is he? Still not sure if the Nixon that came from China is the same one that went there either.... I love silly Mondays...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:21 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
OK five days :!: Patients is giving way to concern, anyone heard from Larry? Which one of you guys has him chained to a fairing board in your garage :?: :idea:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:27 pm
by ks8
He might be stocking up his freezer for this winter... bow season? .... or... he wants the next picture to be a primed hull. :) He is also sailing around in the clipper race again over at virtual regatta....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Always leave em wanting more :lol: Who said that, PT Barnum I think :doh:

You got it KS, fall is a busy time down here :D Getting the last of the harvesting done, freezing and canning vegetables, hunting deer, hogs and gators then processing them, shooting a few doves, stocking the freezer with shrimp, catching some fish, this is our best time of year for fishing, doing some home repairs while the weather is nice, building a boat, racing around the world....

Fall weather finally arrived and it's beautiful after the long summer. It's hard to decide what to do next, so I usually just decide to go fishing :P I need a spell of bad weather to finish my trip report. We'll get back to it.
Which one of you guys has him chained to a fairing board in your garage
Chained to my own sanding board. If someone would come sand this boat I could finish my story :lol:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:26 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
CL, Do you think maybe you could tell Sam the story while you're sanding? He could narrate and type as you tell it to him? We wouldn't mind if he corrected your grammar or injected a little off color humor now and then, you know, if it would make him feel good about having to type for you. :lol: That way the boat gets done and all us boat porn junkies stay entertained and amused too :idea: :?: Well,. couldn't hurt to ask.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:36 am
by Doc_Dyer
yea that Bush's Beans dog could do it :D :D :D :D :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:48 am
by Cracker Larry
Sam could do it, but he's still mad at me for leaving him home :?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:52 am
by michaelwpayton
Larry...

Been meaning to post this pic every since I first saw your signature line.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pos=-27202

My guess is you will "get it." :-)

-Mike

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Image
My guess is you will "get it."
:lol: This is a test, it is only a test....

But of course, that is the famous (infamous) Caldwoods rum distillery located in Cane Garden Bay, Tortola, British Virgin Islands. The Caribbeans oldest rum distillery, in continuous production and owned by the same family since the mid 1700s 8) They made rum for the pirates :!:

But women and water are in short supply
There’s not enough dope for us all to get high
I hear it gets better, that’s what they say
As soon as we sail on to cane garden bay....

I got to head this boat south pretty soon
New album’s old and I’m fresh out of tunes
But I know that I’ll get ’em, I know that they’ll come
Through the people and places and caldwoods rum

Jimmy Buffett

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:17 pm
by michaelwpayton
Yes!... I knew you would get it, LOL. Ahhh.... to be young, free and roaming the BVIs...

-Mike

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, I can't do anything about the young part, but the rest of it we still have some control over :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:27 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:It's official. The plywood arrived on Tuesday and beautiful it is, 19 sheets of 1088 Miranti.
Cracker Larry, I hope you don't mind me going back to your first post on the OD18. But after long and hard thoughts, ( and finally getting my FL14 splashed, Pictures to follow) I think I've finally decided on a OD18. But I need to ask? In the BOM it says 13 sheets of plywood. My question is did you use the 19 sheets??? I want to ask so when I order Plywood I want to have enough to finish it without having to pay for shipping again. And also if you don't mind, how much epoxy did you use? I would like to build it stout like you did yours. I will also go with the center console like yours.
btw, your boat was an inspiration for me to finally decide on the OD18.
Thanks, Larry B

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you Larry 8) We appreciate that. I think you'll be real happy with it, we sure are.

The BOM is for the basic boat, it doesn't include plywood for the center console (2 sheets of 3/8), or for the 12 storage lockers, or baitwell, or extra large casting deck, or gunwales and inwales. It also doesn't include wood for laminating the rub rails, almost a full sheet of 1/4 for those. I used 20 sheets and not much scrap left over.

Epoxy, I hate to even say how much I used. Heck, I hate to even total it all up :oops: But I think it was about 21 gallons, might have been 24 :help:

Let me know if I can help you with anything.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:55 pm
by Larry B
Larry, thanks for the info. So other than the regular BOM, if you were ordering plywood again, what extra sizes would you order? The shipping on the extra epoxy and glass won't be so bad, but extra ply is expensive shipping.
I'm sure even with your write up on your build I'll still have lots of questions. I hope to order the plans this coming week.
Thanks, Larry B

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:27 pm
by cape man
Not to answer for Larry, but I kinda copied a lot of what he did on my OD18...bought the ply listed in the BOM and 2 more sheets of 1/2" (console and foredeck) and 1 more 3/4" (stringers). Used just under 22 gallons of epoxy, one extra roll of biax tape, several extra yards of cloth for the sole, interior side panels, and gunwales. You are smart to be looking at getting all the ply at once to save shipping. Just make sure you store it all flat and with something on top of it to keep it flat until you use it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:50 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for reminding us about the stringers, Craig 8) . The BOM specs 2X6 lumber for stringers but most of us laminate them out of 3/4 ply, so one sheet of 3/4 for those.

Craig built his gunwales out of solid laminated lumber, but I used 3/8 ply for mine.

So, over the BOM, you'll probably want 1 sheet of 3/4 for stringers, one sheet of 1/4 for rubrails, and 4 sheets of 3/8 for console, decks and gunwales.

Then you'll need to ponder ahead, figure out which one you'll probably screw up, and order an extra one of those. Probably the 3/8 :doh: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:08 am
by Larry B
Thanks Larry and Capeman for the info. Sorry Larry for barging in on your topic to ask questions. This really helps me to get things in perspective. I'm starting my list and getting ready to order the plans.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:29 am
by Cracker Larry
No problem Larry, that's what the forum is for 8)

You'll want to start your own builder's thread pretty soon. We'll keep up with it :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:10 am
by Larry B
OK, just one more question? Did you use all Meranti plywood? Is the only difference in the weight? Sure does shave money off the cost compared to okoume? Whats your thoughts on this??
Thanks Again and as soon as I order the plans I'll start my own topic, which should be TODAY

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:22 am
by Daddy
Larry B, okume is great if you have to torture the ply to get it to fit, otherwise I would stick with the meranti. I used four sheets of okume on my nina build it the areas that required severe bending, in most boats meranti will work just fine.
Daddy

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:36 am
by Cracker Larry
OK, just one more question? Did you use all Meranti plywood?
Yes, all meranti BS1088, purchased from the good folks here. I had no trouble bending any of it.

Don't be scared to ask questions, that's how we all end up with good boats :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:41 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:Don't be scared to ask questions, that's how we all end up with good boats :wink:
Or ships in Shine's case :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
We've finally got a miserable weather day, 2" of rain so far and still coming down, so we'll get back to that trip report 8) Some of it might be a lie :wink:

We left off on Daufuskie Island and lunch with the root doctor.

She ordered me out back to clean the flounder while she visited with Dori, who she'd never met but knew everything about. She slapped her knife in my hand and I recognized it immediately, it was a heavy bait knife my Dad had made 40 years ago, from a ground down trailer spring, with a deer horn handle. I'd last seen it at Staniel under some bad times, I guess Dad left it with her. It used to have a 12" blade but it was sharpened down over the years to about 3" and paper thin. Not enough blade left to clean a decent fish. Looking around the shotgun house, I saw no other knives. She also told me to mind the bros, meaning all of her forest critter informants, and don be wasten no fishes.

I took it out back to the summer kitchen. These folks don't have electricity or air conditioning, or running water. Most cooking is done outside to stay cool, and keep from burning down the driftwood house with the wood stove. I found the bucket of flounder by the hand pump, a real old plastic bucket, cracked, broken and wouldn't hold but 2" of water. Had at least 6 nice fish packed in it. I could tell Miss Jimmy has been living close to the bone, even for poor folks :( Down to one worn out knife and a busted bucket. So I went back to the boat and got a new bucket, a good fillet knife, a fish scaler and a couple of towels, then returned to cleaning fish.

The yard was a scene from Dr. Doolittle. There was a beautiful little island buck, about 80 pounds and a pefect 10 pt. rack, feeding on overcup acorns in the yard. He watched me closely but didn't say anything. 2 does were laying under a cedar tree napping. Looking around more, I spotted a large gray fox sitting at the edge of the woods and watching me intently with yellow eyes. She didn't speak to me either so I went about my business. A few gray squirrels scampered down from the live oaks to watch and chatter. Soon joined by a family of raccoons. They had a lot to say, not sure what though. Might of had something to do with the bobcat sleeping under the stoop. Add to this several rabbits, numerous birds, and who knows what else. Mindful of snakes, I continued with the fish. If I were cleaning these for us back home I would have made 4 fillets and trashed the rest, but I knew better here. Everything gets used except the scales and the squirts, so I carefully scaled, gutted and gilled the fish. At this point the fox barked and the bobcat growled and the coons set up a fuss. I understood that, and split the cleanings with the carnivores. They made short work of them, then asked for more. There was more than enough fish, so I cut one up and shared that with them too, which seemed to put me in good standing with the bros.

Finishing up the cleaning, I felt more eyes staring at me from inside the wood line, looked and saw nothing, pretended not to look, then turned around again quickly. I heard giggling, and saw the children, well saw their eyes anyway, "pickneys" in Gullah and Creole, hiding in the woods watching. Pickney is the origin of the now politically incorrect and forbidden term pickninny. I can't for the life of me understand how history can be politically incorrect :doh: More informants, they've probably been watching us since we entered Mungeon Creek. That's how Miss Jimmy could describe my boat :idea: Maybe. I motioned them out of hiding and they shylly came forward. They looked well fed and healthy so I didn't offer them any fish. Instead I went to the boat again and got a couple of chocolate bars. Dori is a chocoholic so we keep plenty in the cooler. More bros minded, life is good today in the low country.

Miss Jimmy and Dori came outside, and she went about frying the fish and cornbread in a huge black skillet on the wood stove. She asked me what happened to the rest of the fish, and I told her I shared them with the bros as instructed. Good she says, better have, glad you aint lost all ya sense. Devilled crabs were already cooked and warming in the oven, the best and spiciest blue crabs you've ever tasted, along with a big pot of cheese grits and shrimp. One thing about this island, food is plentiful even if nothing else is. A salad of dandelion greens, cattail root and other green things I didn't recognize or ask about rounded off the meal. Washed down with home made plumb wine. The pickneys shared our lunch and it was the best meal I can remember. The bros shared all the leftovers, the deer ate the salad, the squirrels and birds ate the cornbread and grits, the coons ate everything, and the fox and bobcat finished off the fish and shrimp.

We talked for a couple of hours, she told me a lot of things I didn't know, I didn't think I could tell her anything she didn't know. But then she asked me to tell her what really happened down at Staniel. I didn't want to go there, especially not if front of Dori. Daddy told you, I said. Yo daddy lied she says. I shrugged, probably so. "Ezra told me bout it, I want's to hez it skrate fum you". Ezra is dead and planted under the oak in the yard, we'd brought him home frozen in the fish box. Along with a lot of money. Enough money to buy Miami. Some things are better left unspoken. She wisely sent Dori off on a mission with the pickneys to gather some wild grapes, and we talked some more, until she was satisfied.

I asked her about the money, why she was living so hard, Daddy had left her set for life. Even a long life lived well. She could have been on the other side of the island, in a big house. She said she had been using it to pay her taxes, that's all. Since the developers moved in, they stole most of the locals land by raising taxes to the point it was impossible for fishermen to pay them. Her waterfront acreage is probably worth 50 million or more today, and taxed accordingly, but she was able to hang on. The carpetbaggers are still around :( "de gubmint don ax no questions bout da money I pays em ebry yar, but whares des utter yankee foks tinks dis ol nigga crabba womin gets all dem Grants? I be sceered to spend any up ta de sto" She has never left the island, never been to the mainland in her life. I see her problem alright, wished I had seen it a long time ago. She needs 5s, 10's and 20's. The big bills are a problem for her. A huge problem on that island. I tell her that I'll take care of that, no need for her to have one busted bucket and a worn out bait knife.

Dori and the children return with a big basket of grapes, the basket hand woven of sweet grass. While we're eating grapes she whispers something to the oldest boy child, who took off running into the woods. He returns in about 15 minutes with a large bundle, wrapped tight and tied in a cotton flour bag, and hands it to me. Dori wants to ask, I shake my head...

Then Miss Jimmy announced it was time for us to go. "Ya chillens needs to gets back on dat ribba now, ya still gots a long to go dis day. Capt Larry, ya mind ya be snug and double up dos lines dis nite, ya know it's gwine be a big blow comin, les you don forgot ya ribba sense, yous in dat lil boyut. Ya minds ya senses and takes care of dat fine lady you gots.

So we say our goodbyes, I'm knowing that's the last time we'll see each other in this life. We're going to stop back by on the return trip, but she won't be there. I pack $20,000 in hundred dollar bills into No Excuse, and we push off the beach......She calls out "Capn Larry, ya don forgots ya knife and bucket". I just wave, and we head out the creek, putting Daufuskie behind us. The water is wide indeed.

To be continued...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:29 pm
by Larry B
I sure am enjoying this story CL, just waiting for more. Your a great story teller. Keep it coming.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:23 pm
by flatpicker
Image

Terrific CL, keep'em coming. I remember as a child my grandaddy would sit around the dinner table and tells interesting stories like this. Before he died, I made him sit in front of a video camera and tell as many stories as he could. He did! This has been at least five years now, and I still haven't watched any of them. I will one day :wink: I believe good storytellers are people who enjoy the simple pleaures of life more than most of us. :) He too would sometimes add some :doh: embellishments.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
But ask for some palm trees
Or tales from the South Seas
And I just might turn your head

Jimmy Buffet

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:23 pm
by TomW
Larry I want to be with you on this trip it just ties me to up in knots with the couple of Gullahs I met in SC and how you are nearly one of them. To be trusted by them is more than an honor it is a lifestyle that is imparted to you and your dad that few if any can experience. God be with you and may you keep their freinship forever.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
So we headed out the creeks and back into the Cooper River, heading north. Past the abortion of a development called Haigs Point Plantation on the north end of Daufuskie, and out into Calibogue Sound. Here we had to make a decision again, head offshore and up the coast, or follow the Intracoastal Waterway up the inshore side of Hilton Head. I wasn't in the mood for Hilton Head and all the boat traffic on Labor Day weekend, I still had too much of the island in my mind and needed to get out on the ocean again. The winds had picked up a little more, and feeling more NE than SE. There was a good chop in the sound but not rough, no white caps. We listened to NOAA weather again, forecast was the same, wind SE at less than 10 seas less than 2, today, tonight, tomorrow, so we headed for the ocean. Knowing the forecast was wrong and Miss Jimmy's warning about a blow still strong in my head. We had five hours of daylight and we could make Charleston by dark if the weather held a while.

Calibogue Sound, Harbor Town Lighthouse, Hilton Head..

Image

It was easy riding out the sound at 22 kts. and we ran about 3 miles offshore to get well clear of the bars and disturbed shallow waters along the beachfront, then set the GPS for the Charleston sea buoy, 85 miles, and turned north. It's 4 pm and dark is at 8 pm, no problem. Also had no problem with running into Charleston after dark if we needed to, it's a well marked, deep, shipping channel.

As we worked our way north up the coast of Hilton Head, the wind steadily increased and the seas were running about 4' with some occasional white caps, and we were getting pretty wet, but the boat was riding easy and we were still making good time, although we had slowed down to about 18-20. I headed a little further out, moving to deeper water. We passed the north end of Hilton Head and Port Royal Sound from 6 miles out. At this point it was getting rougher and we discussed heading into Pt. Royal and up to Beaufort, we had tentative reservations both in Beaufort and Charleston, but Port Royal is rough on a good day and I knew with the falling tide it would be real rough today, so we kept heading north up the coast of St. Helena Island.

As we headed up the coast the wind and waves kept building, now it was blowing a steady 25-30 out the NE and seas running about 6-8 feet. We slowed down some more, down to about 12 kts. A few miles later we started to get into some much larger waves and slowed down more, and more, down to about 5 kts. I knew NOAA was wrong and Miss Jimmy was right, she's always right about weather :lol: Where did this crap come from :doh:

We soon got a set of waves that made the rest look small. I spun the boat to meet the first one and it was like hitting a brick wall. The second of the set was even larger and I had to keep a lot of power on her to hold the bow up so she wouldn't stuff. When we came off the backside it was like falling off a 2 story building. There was a loud crack and I knew something had busted. The next waves of the set made Dori tell me that I had to build her a bigger boat.She was not pleased, we couldn't see, couldn't breathe and we were taking on a lot of water. The scuppers and pump were keeping up, but if it got any worse, we'd found the limits of this boat.

Then a radio call came over VHF 16. A 65' shrimp boat was taking on water and sinking off Sullivans Island, south of Charleston. I punched in his co-ordinates on the GPS, he was 20 miles north of me and there was nothing I could do to help him. At this speed I'm 5 hours away. Said a prayer for them. We tuned back to NOAA and they'd finally woke up. "A tropical depression has developed off the GA/SC coast, winds building to 30-50 kts, seas building to 12-15 feet. Moving slowly up the coast and intensifying. Small craft should remain in port, yada,yada,yada, great.

Our next chance inshore was at St. Helena sound, but it's shallow, poorly marked and I'm not real familiar with it, and in these conditions we'd have to run it in the dark. Not a good choice, I'd rather stay offshore in deep water than get on some bars in an unfamiliar inlet with these waves breaking in the dark. It was almost 7 pm, an hour before dark. We kept plugging north, now making about 3 kts.

Then we got into another set of waves that left us no choice but to turn around. The boat couldn't take much more than that, and there was so much spay we couldn't even breathe. I keep a mask and snorkle in the boat and Dori put it on to keep the contact lenses in her eyes. Wish I had 2 of them.

We made a 180 turn, timing it careful on the wave face so we wouldn't broach, and headed back south. It was almost instant relief running with the sea. I put us on the back of 1 wave and stayed with it. No more pounding, no more spray, I could get a whole breath of air without salt water. We matched the wave speed of about 8 kts, dried off, lit a cigarette, made a drink, dang that felt good :D The only problem was, we were 8 miles offshore and the seas were still building. I would have kept running south all night, but Dori wanted in, now, the sooner the better. I set the GPS on the Port Royal sea buoy, 8 miles south of us. It's not a good inlet, but at least I'm familiar with it. I figured worse case I'd run her aground on St. Helena and we'd get out and walk. This boat is amazing in a following sea :lol:

9 pm, past dark, got another radio call, a 49' shrimp boat was sinking 30 miles off Charleston. Said a prayer for them. 930 pm, another, a 65' sportfisherman had broke in half and sinking at the mouth of Charleston Harbor. Said a prayer for them too. We still had a long way to go. I called USCG Tybee, reported our position, situation, and set up a 15 minute reporting schedule. We were riding safe, but wanted someone to know where we were. Called Beaufort Downtown Marina and made arrangements for overnight dockage, called Charleston Harbor Resort and cancelled reservations for the night, called the Beaufort B&B and made sure we had a dry bed lined up, if we made it. I'd promised Dori a dry bed every night :wink:

10 pm, made the Port Royal sea buoy, couldn't see it but the GPS said it was there. Turned up the north channel and lost all advantage of the following sea, back into it again but only a few miles to go before we'd get some protection. Running completely blind except for the chart plotter and compass. I had paper charts, but no possible way to use them in the wind and spray.

11 pm, made the Beaufort river and turned north, straight into the 40 mph. wind and a slow slog, but making 6 kts towards a hot shower. Wet and uncomfortable but not dangerous. Home free now.

Midnight, arrived at the marina in Beaufort. Called CG Tybee and reported us in safe, called the B&B, they sent someone to pick us up 8) Doubled up my lines as suggested, looks like it's going to blow tonite, for sure :!:

It's been a long day, a real long day.

To be continued...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:07 pm
by TomW
Outstanding seamanship Larry. Good boat good skipper! :D :D Sorry to hear about the loss of the other boats, it is a loss to all of us when a boat is lost hopefully the crews were saved. :(

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:38 pm
by Lucky_Louis
CL said:
There was a loud crack and I knew something had busted.
You thought you'd snuck that one by us, didn't you? Well? :doh:
CL said:
The next waves of the set made Dori tell me that I had to build her a bigger boat.
You and I had better make a vow here and now that your Dori and my Laura NEVER get together or else we're doomed.... :lol:

Great storytelling Larry. You stirred a lot of my old memories too. We'll have to get together in Belize sometime, drink some local squeezins, and tell some more stories.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:39 pm
by chicagoross
Great writing, Larry! Thanks for sharing! Anything published that I can get ahold of?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:46 pm
by Bowmovement
Great story Larry :D

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Outstanding seamanship Larry.
No, outstanding seamanship would have been to never to allow ourself to get in a dangerous position like that to start with. I knew it was going to blow, it had been feeling odd all day, but I was in a funk. Miss Jimmy told me to mind my senses, I didn't do it. We pushed the limits further than we should have. It was poor seamanship, it wasn't necessary or smart to head offshore in a building NE wind, in an 18' boat, no matter the weather forecast. I had other options. It was an even worse decision not to run into Port Royal when we first passed it by and discussed it, in the daylight, while the weather was still reasonable but obviously deteriorating. A damn good boat and a lot of luck got us back inside. And maybe some of those roots we ate for lunch :doh: When large shrimp trawlers and sportfishing boats are sinking, an 18' boat needs to be in port, I don't care how good it is. We were watched over, plain and simple.
it is a loss to all of us when a boat is lost hopefully the crews were saved.


Yes, they were, all of them :D All 3 boats were lost, but thanks to life rafts, EPIRBS and the brave men and women of the USCG all of the crews were rescued safe 8) There was some video of one of the shrimp boats crews being rescued at night in baskets. Damn those pilots and rescue swimmers are good! Let me try to find it....yeah, here it is. As usual with reporting some of the facts are wrong by my radio log, but close enough to get the idea..

http://www2.counton2.com/cbd/news/local ... end/62238/

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
CL said:
There was a loud crack and I knew something had busted.

You thought you'd snuck that one by us, didn't you? Well?


Let's save that for tomorrow :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:45 am
by Cracker Larry
CL said:
There was a loud crack and I knew something had busted.

You thought you'd snuck that one by us, didn't you? Well?
Let's save that for tomorrow
OK, it's tomorrow, lets get the bad news out of the way early. In the light of day I inspected every inch of her above the waterline. Yes we suffered some damage and found some shortcomings. The good news is the CG didn't have to rescue us and I can fix the damages :D The bad news is there is some damage that needs attention.

First notable problem was the battery box completely broke away and the battery was adrift. Both plastic hold downs, the plastic buckle thingy, the nylon strap, everything holding down the battery was busted and it was laying on it's side. All that stuff is junk. I knew better when I installed it. It needs heavy metal brackets and ratchet straps, or a bolt down retainer, or something better than this ABYC approved tie down plastic junk. No good, no more. A minor nuisance, but a problem none the less :?

Worse than that, and much more difficult to repair, we cracked 2 frames. These are support frames for the gunwales, where they meet the forward frame of the casting deck on both sides. They are add ons and not part of the main frame, but were glued, filleted and taped where they met the casting deck and the sides :( I was worried about this joint and probably did not engineer it properly.

The starboard side is the worse..

Image

The cracks are only on the aft side and does not extend all the way through, at least it's not visable on the forward side, and it's not cracked where it's attached to the hull side panel either, but where it meets the deck is ugly.

The port side has a similar crack, not as extensive, yet. Again it's only on the aft side.

Image

I'm going to have to grind them down to determine how deep they extend. The forward edges still appear solid, so maybe it's just paint and fairing compound that's cracked, maybe not. They aren't really structural, neither are the side decks they support, so I might just cut them out completely. Not sure yet how to approach them other than grind away and see what we've got :doh:

Considering she was dropped off a 2 story building, a few hundred times, all in all, it could be lots worse :lol: No other damage anywhere to be seen and I've been over every inch of her.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:19 am
by TomW
Larry it was outstanding seamanship to get you out of the position you were in. It was lack of control that let you get into that position. Two totally different things. You got back safely do to your knowledge and boat handling skills. You got into the position do to your hard headedness and boathandling skills, never expecting the waves you would encounter. Just glad your safe and home alive to live another day. :D :D :D

If you have any 6oz biax laying around I'd just put a peice of it on those joints then fair it in.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:23 am
by Cracker Larry
You got into the position do to your hard headedness
That sums it up pretty well :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:28 am
by TomW
Yep! :lol: :lol: Hey how long those reds going to around or is this cold spell going to chase them. Your only 5-6 hrs from here. If Deb doesn't mind I may cone down for two-three days. That is if you can put up with me.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:24 am
by Cracker Larry
Tom, the reds are year round residents. We can catch them every month of the year. The cold won't run them off, it just runs me off :wink:

You're welcome to come and fish but unfortunately I can't offer a place to stay right now. We're in the process of painting the inside of the house and it is a wreck, shuffling furniture from room to room, everything covered with drop cloths and sanding dust. I hate sanding and painting, so it's taking longer than it should, mostly due to my procrastinations :?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:48 am
by tech_support
good reading, thanks for posting the stories.

Wind bucking the tide in Port Royal is absolutely miserable in a small boat. Super tightly spaced and steep waves that just keep coming. I nearly sank a couple times getting stuck there went a squall came through. Unless you have a lot of freeboard the waves just break over the bow. Its the kind of thing that just make you really mad at yourself for being there, and you swear at the boat and the sea and just the situation in general. Never done it a night though, I guess you would have to add fear to all the above misery.

Glad you made it back safe, calling CG tybee was smart

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:53 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, it's an ugly inlet. The good news is that I now have permission to build a bigger boat :D A much bigger boat, I'm told :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:00 am
by Lucky_Louis
Thanks for the update CL. I agree with completely on the PoS they sell for battery boxes.

I would really interested to see what Jacques has to say about the location and type of damage to your frames. For the life of me, I can't visualize the stresses that would fracture the frames in that plane and only on one side. The hull itself should be very stiff right there - that's where the overlapping side panels meet more or less, the curve is about maximum, and the box structure of the foredeck makes that whole area very stiff. :doh:

She's a fine little ship, that's for sure.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:20 am
by D2Maine
nm

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:39 am
by gk108
Dropping off the waves hard like that probably had the effect of trying to fold the boat in the middle (oilcanning) and the joint at the frame was very stressed by that. I'd look at grinding it down and gluing a ½" doubler for the full length, sole to gunwale, then fillet and biax to the hull. Then the final step in the repair: Don't do that again! I've found that to be the best insurance for that kind of repair.

Really, I'd find the whole thing kinda encouraging, considering the way a molded boat probably would have folded up under the same conditions. Not encouraging in the way that would make you want to go out and hammer the boat on a regular basis, but at least you know you can take it to the limit and still have an intact vessel.

Permission for a bigger boat? Does that mean a bigger boat building space? 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
For the life of me, I can't visualize the stresses that would fracture the frames in that plane and only on one side.
You could visualize it better if you'd seen the waves 8O
Dropping off the waves hard like that probably had the effect of trying to fold the boat in the middle (oilcanning) and the joint at the frame was very stressed by that. I'd look at grinding it down and gluing a ½" doubler for the full length, sole to gunwale, then fillet and biax to the hull.


That's about the same thing I was thinking. It's either got to be a lot stronger, or eliminate the connection to the deck altogether and let the gunwale float.
Then the final step in the repair: Don't do that again!
Amen!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:38 pm
by macs
That's a hell of story Larry. I'd love to hear more about Miss Jimmy. Thank God ya'll made it back safe. I saw your pictures in the builders gallery this morning and thought I was going to throw up 8O.

I have 3/4" plywood bulkheads for the fore and aft decks that were not part of the original plans and therefore not structural (in my mind) :doh: Seeing this made me reallize that they have become part of the structure whether needed or not and will bend and twist with everything else so they need to be as strong as possible. :idea: If that makes sense. Sorry to see that happen to your boat but the Good Lord works in mysterious ways.

I'm sure it will have possitive effects on other builders and their understanding of construction methods. I also think sharing your thoughts on seamanship will also help others, especially notifying the Coast Guard. Sounds like you turned a situation that turned bad into a good one :)

Good job on getting her home safe. Both of them :wink:

I can relate to the bigger boat concept. That's why we're building ours now. :)

Macs

BTW - What happened to the 20 grand? :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:28 pm
by Doc_Dyer
Cracker Larry wrote:Yeah, it's an ugly inlet. The good news is that I now have permission to build a bigger boat :D A much bigger boat, I'm told :lol:

ahhhhh, I see a Gulf Stream 28 in the future :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

been wanting to see one built

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
especially notifying the Coast Guard
That's standard procedure anytime things aren't looking good. If there is any doubt, it doesn't cost anything to cover your @ss. They are happy to set up a check in schedule and they'll radio you every 15 minutes for an updated situation, course, speed and position report. If you don't answer the radio, they'll be in the air in minutes and they'll know within a couple of miles where to look for your carcass.
BTW - What happened to the 20 grand?
What 20K :doh: Are you a gambler? If so, you'll know the term "color change" :wink: But you'll have to wait for the next rainy day, I've got to get this house painting done so Tom will have a place to stay.
ahhhhh, I see a Gulf Stream 28 in the future
Dori's thinking more along the lines of a 48 Krogen :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:57 pm
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:Dori's thinking more along the lines of a 48 Krogen :wink:
I heard Carnival is decreasing their fleet, maybe you can score a nice little second hand boat at them :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:28 pm
by JimW
Larry,

I had two very small areas that cracked on the C19 and both spots were areas that lacked a biax tape piece. Were both sides of the frame biax glassed across that narrowest peice of the frame? I guess slamming down hard against a wave puts the inertia of the deck (and all that nice hardware :) ) on that narrow "rib" area of the frame. Your repair strategy sounds valid to me.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
To tell the truth Jim, I don't really remember and looking back through my pictures doesn't help a lot. I think I extended the tape attaching it to the side panel down a few inches onto the forward frame. It may not have been completely taped on the aft side.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:32 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:32 pm
by TomW
Larry I know how you rode out those waves, but maybe a little explanation would add a little realism to what you really went through on your trip into port. 8O God bless you made it back safe!

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
TW44 :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry I know how you rode out those waves, but maybe a little explanation would add a little realism to what you really went through on your trip into port
Not sure I understand the question :? One wave at a time.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:51 pm
by gk108
MotorBoating magazine was loaded up with Krogen ads a month or two ago. There's a 39' model that suits me to a T. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:55 pm
by TomW
Larry I was thinking of how you rode the waves to keep from broaching, where you kept your boat in regards to the wave height, shape, speed you maintained in those waves. That type of thing. It's not often one of our own can teach how to handle a small boat in large waves from recent experience.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:17 pm
by macs
Reminds me of an old story a doctor friend of ours told (he taught me how to ski and to drive a boat) They had an old shimper converted to pleasure/shrimper down in ocean springs. They got into some bad stuff one night and he said he looked over at his mother and she had her rosary in her hand and was praying so fast it looked like she was shootin' marbles 8O

Macs :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:31 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
I guess slamming down hard against a wave puts the inertia of the deck (and all that nice hardware :) ) on that narrow "rib" area of the frame.
Right on the money. My $.02 anyway. The bottom of the hull stopped when it was stuffed into a wall of water, the top half above the sole, up to the gunwale was trying to shear forward, driven by the mass behind it ( boxed in rear deck, transom, motor, batteries etc.). All the vertical frames between the forward bulkhead and the rear bulkhead above the sole, were in a forward "rack", when these two let go, they stress relieved the rest of them,.. ergo no other fractures. I'm amazed you found no other similar damage just forward of the rear bulkhead. You built a tank man. Not to sound like a know it all, smart @ss, but I aced static and dynamic stress analysis at RIT and I've straightened more than one truck frame. Your hard head may have put you in a bad place out there, but your craftsmanship, a great design, and, IMHO the grace of God got you home. I now have no reservations left at all with these designs or build methods. :) Inspiring all the way around Larry.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:50 pm
by macs
Cl, looking at your build photos, those frames only went from the casting deck up to the bottom of the gunwale, right? They didn't run all the way from the chine to the sheer clamp. I'm no engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but it would seem that the area that gave way was obviously the weak link in the chain. :doh: I know. That sounded stupid. It just means the hull itself was strong enough to take the pressure and that seam (the smallest one of that frame) took the blunt of the force. Not being critical at all. Just trying to learn. :doh: I think you built an awesome boat and I have based many of my decisions on your comments and work. :wink: Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

More about your past voyages please, the ones with the sail boat back in the 70's.

My wife read the story of Miss Jimmy and the voyage and loved it!. Especially the part about the bigger boat and the dry bed every night.

Macs :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:51 pm
by macs
Sorry forgot to insert the pic

Image

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:04 pm
by wegcagle
Love reading your story, but love the happy ending even more :D You've got a heckuva great boat, and an even more impressive first mate to put up with your shenanagans :lol: Glad you and yours are safe. We'll keep praying for ya. I think you'll need it.

Will

by the way congrats on 300 pages and 3000 replies 8O :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm amazed you found no other similar damage just forward of the rear bulkhead.
That's because I never let the stern half get out of the water, so the boat never hinged towards the rear end. You are right, the motorwell frame is the weak point in the rear seaction. I stayed as slow as I needed to keep the stern planted and as fast as I had to, to keep the bow from stuffing. The bow section is incredibly stiff, its got 5 compartments, all taped and glassed, 2 extra frames plus a 6' casting deck tieing it all together. The hull basically can't flex forward of that bulkhead, so that is the first weakest point and the entire front half of the boat will have to hinge there, flexing both up and down.
I guess slamming down hard against a wave puts the inertia of the deck (and all that nice hardware ) on that narrow "rib" area of the frame.
Right on the money. My $.02 anyway. The bottom of the hull stopped when it was stuffed into a wall of water,
It doesn't just stop, it pushes back :wink: I think the really dominant force is the hull rising against the sea, not the deck pushing down. The further it buries, the more floation force the bow has as it submerges. It develops thousands of pound of force exerting upwards because of the bouyancy. This is greater than the weight of the boat falling down. I speculate this is a compression fracture. I've been wrong before though :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
and an even more impressive first mate to put up with your shenanagans
Thanks Will, you've got that right :D For 36 years :!: But she's pretty spunky herself and sometimes I have to work to keep up with her. She's got a lot of boat sense and a lot of boat experience too, and she doesn't hold her tongue. Most of our shenanagans are mutually agreed on before we get started. Sometimes later we argue about who's idea that was :doh: She's a sport, the best decision we ever made :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:29 pm
by rjezuit
Larry, Great stories, even if as you say they may not be 100% true to fact. They make for good and interesting reading. Keep them coming, we all seem to enjoy. Rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:11 pm
by Dougster
What a tale. I mean, it reads real good, rings true enough, details be darned. I have an Uncle whose always said to never let facts get in the way the truth. Well, I'm paraphrasing. We'd of all been disappointed if you hadn't of left Miss Jimmy that knife and bucket, but then of course there's no way that would have happened. The serious side of the thing is, I believe I'd of lost the boat and maybe my and worse my wife's life in waves like that. I'd have been terrified of turning her around in those things, not knowing how to time it right. I haven't let Nina read it yet...thinkin' on it. When I saw the cracks my first thought was grind it off and double it too. I know nothing but can see how that'd add tremendously to the strength. Or maybe just fair it up and leave as a "weak link" to give your stubborn mind pause when pause is needed :lol: I mean, God A'mighty.

Still feelin' good about that knife and bucket Dougster

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:58 am
by cape man
Hope that's all you find. Take it easy on that girl (both of them!). Hear you about the cheap battery straps and hold downs. Going through my "box" of goodies for final outfitting of my boat and came across the battery strap I purchased in a discount bin. Same crap and not going in the boat. Thanking of glueing down some 1X to form a lip all the way around them to stop any lateral movement as well. Did the plastic hold downs break or the cheap strap come loose?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:47 am
by Murry
Larry I was sick when I saw those cracks man. Thanks for sharing the picks and taking us through how it happened.
I've learned a lot reading your post and all the great responses.

.....and ofcourse, looking forward to more rainy weather in Savannah. :D

Daniel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:14 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanking of glueing down some 1X to form a lip all the way around them to stop any lateral movement as well.
That's what I'm going to do, and embed a sturdy U-Bolt on each side for the strap.
Did the plastic hold downs break or the cheap strap come loose?
Everything broke, both plastic hold downs and the plastic buckle snapped.
Larry I was sick when I saw those cracks man.
Nothing but a thing, we'll get her fixed better than new. This was a shakedown trip for the Bahamas, and we shook her down real good :lol: Sort of like Craig's trailer, you don't know the weak spots until you use it hard and something breaks.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:26 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:
Larry I was sick when I saw those cracks man.
Nothing but a thing, we'll get her fixed better than new. This was a shakedown trip for the Bahamas, and we shook her down real good :lol:
Larry I to was a little shocked 8O when I saw those cracks, and to be honest I'm a little worried too, you experienced the winds over here so you can imagine the waves, sorry didn't wanna bent your thread to my boat, again I'm just a little worried.
I'm real glad you be able to fix her 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:52 am
by Cracker Larry
I'm a little worried too, you experienced the winds over here so you can imagine the waves,
Yes, I've experienced the winds and waves in your islands and they would be too much for my boat :help: That's the windiest place I've even seen!

But I wouldn't worry if I were you. My boat is not designed for regular offshore use. Your CS25 is a much larger and stronger boat, designed for offshore. Your deep V will slice into the sea, my flat bottom does not. When you put a boat into conditions she isn't designed to handle, you can expect to break something. Nobody's fault but mine. Just build her strong and right, she'll be OK :wink:

Never apologize for commenting here. And I wanted to tell you again how much we enjoyed the green rum :!: There's one shot left in the bottle, I've been saving it so I won't run out :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:11 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote: Yes, I've experienced the winds and waves in your islands and they would be too much for my boat :help: That's the windiest place I've even seen!

But I wouldn't worry if I were you. My boat is not designed for regular offshore use. Your CS25 is a much larger and stronger boat, designed for offshore. Your deep V will slice into the sea, my flat bottom does not. When you put a boat into conditions she isn't designed to handle, you can expect to break something. Nobody's fault but mine. Just build her strong and right, she'll be OK :wink:

Never apologize for commenting here. And I wanted to tell you again how much we enjoyed the green rum :!: There's one shot left in the bottle, I've been saving it so I won't run out :lol:
With exception of the breaking thing I'm glad to read all of the above, I see what I can do about that rum maybe just maybe I can bring you an other bottle or two the 7th of may 2010 but don't count on it for sure because I thought I could be there this year too :(

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:08 am
by Cracker Larry
KS wrote in my repair topic and I wanted to reply here...
I'm very glad you made it through to give us all some very valuable lessons from life instead of from death.

We were never in danger for our lives. No more so than driving down the highway. It was wet, uncomfortable, frustrating and took some concentration, but not an especially dangerous situation. We've both done this before, in worse boats than this one. Heck we've both been further offshore in worse weather than this on sailboards, on purpose for fun :wink:

This boat couldn't sink if it filled with water and broke in half. We've got redundant GPSs, color chart plotter and LORAN. We knew our position within 10'. We have 2 VHFs, one a submersable portable. We were in contact with the CG every 15 minutes and they are only 15 minutes away by air. We have an EPIRB. Our TypeI life jackets have strobes, chemical lights, dye markers and whistles attached. We've got 6 SOLAS parachute flares that will turn night into day. They cost $100 a shot, not 3 for $20. The water temp is mid 80s, air temp the same. We could float for days or swim to shore if we had to, not that we'd leave the boat. Nothing to get scared about, except not delivering a hot shower and dry bed as promised to the Medusa:help: That's frightening! Worse case we lose the boat and spend a little while in the water. Couldn't have got any wetter than we were anyway. :lol: It's just water.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:23 am
by Lon
Somehow, some way, we just have to do some thing to improve this Cracker's attitude! :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:08 pm
by ks8
All the same... my quoted remark stands. :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm glad we made it too :lol: Thanks. I figured we would, just didn't want to break the boat doing it.

Back to painting the house......

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:57 pm
by macs
Larry,

Did you use a teleflex system on No Excuse? (Safety II or 4.2)

How much travel does the cable end have, from lock to lock?

What's the width of the cut out for the motor on the transom?


I'm asking because I haven't installed the console and steering system yet, but I have some clearance issues on the port side of the spalsh well with the steering arm. :doh:

I'm going to mount the console and pre-fit the steering and controls tomorrow, I hope, so I can make the adjustments needed. It looks like I need to make the splash well wider to give the steering cable enough room to turn full to starboard.

I feel for cape man and the hatch issue. :oops:

Anyone else, feel free to chime in.

Macs :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
Mac, I used the teleflex NFB Safety2. I love it, make sure you get the no feedback. I'll measure the travel and cut out size for you in the morning, I don't remember exactly. Seems like it's 32", but I better verify.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:44 am
by Cracker Larry
OK Macs, here are the measurements..
How much travel does the cable end have, from lock to lock?
8 1/2 inches
What's the width of the cut out for the motor on the transom?
32 inches. This leaves about 1 1/4" of clearance at full starboard turn.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:40 pm
by macs
Thanks Larry,

I temp installed the steering system this evening and found that I need 2" (on each side) more for good clearence. Thank God I haven't glassed the rear deck, slash well, etc.... in yet. :) I'll have to cut new rear deck boards and the splash well bottom , but no big deal.

I did buy the NFB Safety II, buy the way. :wink:

Appreceiate the help, Thanks

Macs :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:53 pm
by macs
Hey Larry,

Anyone you know looking for a good cannon? Remington Sendero 7mm Ultra Mag.
3" groups at 400 yards shootin' 150 gr Sierra Game King at 3242 FPS! Less than 1" at 100 yards.


Image

Macs :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:12 am
by Cracker Larry
Nice looking rifle, what do you want for it?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:18 am
by macs
I'd like to get $1,500.00 but will entertain any offers.

A friend said I could almost buy a new one for that. I asked him will it shoot like this one? It's had about $ 250.00 in gunsmithing done to it. Plus the leg work of working up a good load for it's been done.

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:19 am
by macs
Oh, it comes with a set of RCBS dies and all the load data, bi-pod, etc....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:22 am
by macs
I saw you raised your motor up after your first run. On the install, was the cavitation (ant-cavitation) plate level with the hull bottom?

Did you get any slip or cavitation when you raised it?

Macs :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:55 am
by Cracker Larry
I saw you raised your motor up after your first run. On the install, was the cavitation (ant-cavitation) plate level with the hull bottom?
Yes, exactly
level.

Did you get any slip or cavitation when you raised it?
No, none at all.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:42 pm
by peter-curacao
macs wrote: It's had about $ 250.00 in gunsmithing done to it. Plus the leg work of working up a good load for it's been done.
Oh, it comes with a set of RCBS dies and all the load data, bi-pod, etc....
Macs
Not to mention it handles so easy even your pet can handle it to protect you and your homeImage
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:08 am
by topwater
I would have to say what ever mouse that is in that cats sight will not have a chance :!:
ofcourse there wont be much left except a pink mist 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:27 am
by macs
Check this out!

Image

Image

Image

Macs 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:11 am
by peter-curacao
Is that Bill Gates?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:14 am
by macs
Couldn't be. His license tag wouldn't be 743. I'd be 1

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:18 am
by peter-curacao
macs wrote:Couldn't be. His license tag wouldn't be 743. I'd be 1
Probably his garage would be a lot bigger also :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:22 am
by Cracker Larry
For a mere $194,000 you can have one too :wink: Heck, that's cheaper than the Cessna 172 pictured with it.

http://www.terrafugia.com/index.html

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:45 am
by gk108
For some reason, it reminds me of a giant Swiss Army knife. :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:52 am
by peter-curacao
gk108 wrote:For some reason, it reminds me of a giant Swiss Army knife. :doh:
Like the one I posted earlier? :P

Re:

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:37 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:No, I haven't taped the stringers yet, but I'm going to. It is on my weekend "to do" list :lol: In hindsight, it would have been a lot easier to do it when I glued them on, but the building notes and lamination schedule didn't call for it, so I didn't do it. :doh:

But then the man said so, so now I must. Some things I wish were spelled out a little clearer, but at least we can ask questions, if we're smart enough to know what to ask.

I spent the weekend cleaning up the inside, grinding off all the temporary tape tabs, spot welds, stitches and stuff. If I'd known how strong they were, and how hard to grind off, I would not have been as exuberent about using so many.

Got it all sanded down on Saturday. Sunday I started filleting and taping the inside seams and got the transom and starboard side all finished. Then went shrimping.

Next weekend the stringers and port side. I hope :D
CL, I was wondering if when I tab my chine panel in so I can flip the boat, What if I used the 12oz biax for the tabbing and instead of grinding it off just put the lamination schedule over it? I hate grinding and sanding and this would be under the sole. So any thoughts on this if you were to do it again. Also any thoughts on the other temporary tabs to make the boat secure for the flip?? I'm going to tape my stringers in the morning.
Thanks for all your help so far.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:12 am
by Cracker Larry
I did more tabbing than was necessary, and it was a pain to grind it all off. This is a good use for the 4" woven tape, don't use the biax or you'll be grinding for days. Use drywall screws instead of tabbing everywhere you can. There would be no problem leaving the tabbing in place below the sole, and glassing over it, but again I would use the light tape. It will just need a little sanding before the final lamination schedules.

Re:

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:23 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
My first mistake, is that my tank is not a Moeller, it is an Inca :oops: Don't know what I was thinking, but it surely wasn't clearly :doh: I looked at a lot of tanks.
CL, I've been hunting high and low and can't find a tank I'm happy with. Your's looks to be what I want. (but I can't find it) I'd like to have the 40 gal. so when I go to lake powell. It's easy to do 200 miles or more in a couple of days. And with camping in the coves I don't want to be running low on fuel.
So my question if you don't mind, could you tell me where you got your tank? I'd like to do pretty much like you did in the bow area. Looks to fit my purpose as close as any. Seems as I'm not an experienced boat owner, I have to rely on you guys that are.
Thanks in advance,
Larry B

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:48 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry, the tank came from Great Lakes Skipper. They are a large marine liquidator and have a lot of stuff! I also got all my hatches from them.

http://www.greatlakesskipper.com

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:24 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Larry, the tank came from Great Lakes Skipper. They are a large marine liquidator and have a lot of stuff! I also got all my hatches from them.

http://www.greatlakesskipper.com
CL, sorry to be a pain. I've searched that site and can't find that tank. Maybe it was the last one they had :doh: If you had a part number or direct link it would be much appreciated. Or the Dimensions of your tank so I can get close to it. I just don't want to go too high or cut anymore out of the deck than I have to.
Thanks In advance again.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:32 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry, like I said, they are a liquidator. Most of the stuff they sell was made for a particular boat that was discontinued, so it doesn't surprise me. They do show several tanks that would work

Unfortunately the model number is not legible on my tank. It is roughly 32X32X11. The closest one I see on their website is

http://www.incaproducts.com/site/store/ ... FO4000.PDF . My fittings are 90 degrees from this tank though.

See all their stock items at http://www.incaproducts.com

Phone number 615-350-7240.

Also check Ebay.

In retrospect, I'd have one built out of aluminum. Perfect fit and best capacity in available space, no big venting issues, no expansion problems, and the cost isn't much different.

Edit: I was able to get the model number from a picture, it is F04001CL :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:11 am
by Larry B
Thanks for checking this for me. Yes I've been thinking about just having one made and maybe I'll look into it further, that way I can keep it low. I'm not a fan of standing on top of the boat while casting. Dont' have the balance I use to have :help: I think if I could keep it at 6 to 8" deep that it would really work good.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
Time to shake the dust out of this thread again and give some updates. Yall remember my cracked frames from our Labor Day trip?

Image

I gave them a quick and easy repair, although it took a month with all the rain and cold. I sanded it down good and found most of the damage was just paint and fairing compound, with just a little shattering on the surface of the tape. I gave it a coat of epoxy then faired it back out with a couple of coats of epoxy and wood flour, then a couple more sealing coats of epoxy, sanding between coats. Then painted with 2 coats of paint. Not sure how long it will last before it shows cracks again, but it looks good for now. If they re-occur I'm going to cut the frame out where it contacts the deck and triangulate it to the side.

Image

One thing I really like about the System 3 paint is that it is very easy to make spot repairs, it blends right in. This color is a mix I made from Whitby white and Vashon gray. I saved a quart of the mixed paint for repairs, sure glad I did :D It would be almost impossible to duplicate the color.

Image

I sure do need to clean and oil the teak again, but it's done nothing but rain, cold, wind, rain. Everything that stands still mildews. When it's not doing that, and sometimes when it is, I go fishing. At least twice a week. Went yesterday with my next door neighbor, low was 28 and the high was 45, wind was blowing 30 kts. We froze our @ss off, but caught a few little trout and a half dozen nice flounder. We were the only truck at the boat ramp, didn't see a soul all day. Beats watching TV.

Image

We don't need any more rain, but got more coming.

I also installed a Stingray hydrofoil about a month ago. I wasn't completely happy with the trim range, she had a little too much bow lift, or too much stern squat, and some porpoising at higher speed and high trim. It wouldn't run flat even with a lot of weight in the bow. Trim tabs would be best but I'd tear them up. I've always used hydrofoils on jon boats and they make a huge difference, but never tried it on a boat this size. It made a huge difference 8) It has completely stopped any tendancy to porpoise, it gives much better control of boat trim, it holds plane at least 3 mph slower speed and I can trim the engine higher without ventillation. It grips better in turns without blowing out too. Can't prove it yet but I'm sure it will improve fuel efficiency and range also. A very positive addition all the way around with a great cost/benefit ratio :D

Image

Nice that their color perfectly matches the Yamaha 8)

We got a couple more rod holders for Christmas, and installed those on the T-top. Seems we can never have enough. Only 2 of us fishing yesterday and we still had rods in the floor :doh:

Image

And speaking of fuel efficiency, we've got a Lowrance fuel management system on order. That will be fun to play with next week 8) We've been using this boat steady for a year now and are very pleased with it. She is comfortable, safe, seaworthy and does well in 1 foot of water or 1,000.

Happy New Year to all :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:39 am
by sitandfish
I have the 'Stingray hydrofoil' on my 15hp motor on my jon boat and on my 115hp on my 18' CC. Best boat performance accessory they ever invented. :D Glad yours is working so good for you.

Also, you might have as many rod holder as me now. I have 18. :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:53 am
by Cracker Larry
No, you've still got me beat on the rod holders, I've only got 12. 6 on the gunwales and 6 on the top. So far :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:59 am
by ks8
You'll need to check next year's stocking. I think you, uh, someone in a red hat, could fit two in there. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:23 am
by kdog
Good report Larry, the S3 paint is awesome stuff although after 4 seasons I think I'm do for a fresh coat of paint in the cockpit.

Interesting about the hydrofoil, I know we have different hulls but I am experiencing the same exact things regarding the porpoising at high speeds and high trim angles no matter how much weight is up front. I have the same motor and was thinking maybe the foil might help. I assume you have to drill holes in the A/V plate to mount it? :?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:36 am
by Cracker Larry
Yes, you do have to drill 4 holes to mount it. I gave the holes 2 coats of S3 primer on a Q- Tip before I installed the bolts, and then coated the bolt threads with 5200 where they pass through the aluminum.

I'd recommend trying the foil, I've never seen a boat that it didn't help and I'm 100% confident it will solve most of your trim and porpoising problems.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:58 am
by kdog
Cracker Larry wrote:Yes, you do have to drill 4 holes to mount it. I gave the holes 2 coats of S3 primer on a Q- Tip before I installed the bolts, and then coated the bolt threads with 5200 where they pass through the aluminum.

I'd recommend trying the foil, I've never seen a boat that it didn't help and I'm 100% confident it will solve most of your trim and porpoising problems.
OK thanks, I'll give the foil a shot after I get a hold of one of the Powertech props Tom recommended. I remember you guys having a long discussion about the 70 Yamaha, getting it propped correctly, torque and spinning certain props, etc (I'm still running a Stiletto). It's not a big problem but I still want to get it dialed in as much as possible.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:04 am
by Cracker Larry
I'm running a 13 1/4 X 17 stainless Yamaha, the best I've found out of the 4 I've tried. I think with the hydrofoil I could go down to a 15". The foil seems to knock about three hundred RPM off the top end.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:48 am
by Bobg
Nice work Larry. It looks good as new.

One thing about the hydrafoils, don't make them too permanent. You'll want to remove them to change out the water pump. Dropping a lower unit is painfull with them in place.

I'm also a fan of hydrafoils. Seeing one that I had to laugh about, is when I saw one on a pontoon boat.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:44 am
by Murry
Thanks for the repair update Larry. Yeah, this has been the wettest fall/winter we've had in a long time.

Daniel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:13 am
by Larry B
Larry, thats sounds like a good repair job and do like you say, if it cracks again do it different.
Thanks for the tip on the hydrofoil, I was thinking about trim tabs when you were talking about them, but the hydrofoil will be much less money and alot easier to install.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:22 am
by cape man
It has completely stopped any tendancy to porpoise, it gives much better control of boat trim, it holds plane at least 3 mph slower speed and I can trim the engine higher without ventillation. It grips better in turns without blowing out too. Can't prove it yet but I'm sure it will improve fuel efficiency and range also. A very positive addition all the way around with a great cost/benefit ratio
Was hoping you woulkd do this and give us a report. Made me want to go out today and get one. Then I read this:
The foil seems to knock about three hundred RPM off the top end.
That I can't endure, as I am struggling to stay over 5600 even with prop repitched. Back to the pondering chair... :| :|

The repair looks great by the way. Agree that if it cracks again just triangulate them into the sides. Plenty of support for the gunwales there, and allows the sides to flex independent of the deck. 3 days to Cape Sable.... :D :D :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:09 am
by macs
Good Job Larry!

I'm hoping that I won't need a foil on mine given the heavier design (ply on frame) but we'll see.

How about some more stories about Miss Jimmy.

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:27 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks all for the comments..

Craig, I'd give it a try. It might just be that I need to change plugs, got almost 100 hours on the original set :doh: The handling difference is remarkable, you'll like it, I promise 8) Be safe at the Cape and keep the pointy end facing the sea :lol: Hoping I can join you next year.

There was one more thing I wanted to show yall. I built a heavy duty bait cutting/ fish cleaning station that's sized to fit in the motor well. I'd been using a plastic cutting board, but it doesn't contain the mess, and fish slide all over it, so I built this portable table. It's put together with biscuits and epoxy, and fillets in the corners. It has a layer of 9 oz cloth on the cutting surface, 3 coats of epoxy, and a heavy coat of Kiwi Grip. This keeps the fish from sliding around when you clean them, but the Kiwi grip is easy to clean up afterwards. Also has a drain in the back and 4 heavy rubber feet so it doesn't slide or mar the deck. You can move it to the bow, or put it on a table top or tailgate for fish cleaning at the house. It's 30 X 24 inches, a very handy addition 8)

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:40 am
by Larry B
Very Nice Larry, I think I just might copy that :D Sure makes good use of the motor well

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:56 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Larry. Here's a picture of it in place...

Image

I was going to paint it, still might, probably not :doh: It's just a cutting board :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:48 pm
by Murry
Very nice Larry!

I wouldn't paint it. It's to pretty and it would be a great home test for epoxy sun exposure resistance for you. :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:22 pm
by TomW
Nicely done Larry, I wouldn't paint it don't want no paint in them thar fish. Wouldn't have even Kiwigriped it varnished or epoxied it, don't want any of that crap in my fish. :P Some good wood with mineral oil on it would have been fine. Fish don't slip on wood either, well as long as you keep it clean. :lol: Happy New Year guy.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:28 pm
by cottontop
Larry, leave it up to you to come up with such a great idea. I put a foil on "EZMORNING" right after she was launched. It helped the porpoising quite a bit, although it will still porpoise when I try to trim her too high. I also had a small crack appear, but mine was near one of my back boxes. It was where the box joined the side. Great patch job. Looks brand new. John

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:33 pm
by TomW
Kdog don't get rid of your Stilleto until you get your fin and try it with it. What size Stilleto are you running right now. A 13.25 x13/15 would be about right with that motor. What's your rpm's and your speed and normal total weight. I can then give you a more accurate prop size for your OD17 and the Yammi 70.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:42 pm
by ericsil
Great idea Larry. I am always looking for more space on my little camper. Also, I don't like cleaning the few fish I catch while kneeling on the floor. A removable shelf that will fit over the motor well on the P19 can serve several useful purposes.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:59 pm
by kdog
TomW wrote:Kdog don't get rid of your Stilleto until you get your fin and try it with it. What size Stilleto are you running right now. A 13.25 x13/15 would be about right with that motor. What's your rpm's and your speed and normal total weight. I can then give you a more accurate prop size for your OD17 and the Yammi 70.

Tom
Tom thanks, I'm running the 13.5x15 now. I can resend you an email exchange we had earlier in the year if you like.

My original email contains lots of detail with some of my numbers, I won't post it here it's too long, I don't want to clog up Larry's thread. Awesome cutting board by the way!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:54 pm
by TomW
Kdog go ahead and put the fin on and get new numbers and then send those to me and we will see what we have to work with. You know what I need so we will go from there. You have a v-bottom and may not need to do anything versus Larry's flat bottom. There are just so many differences in the boats and how they how they use the HP. Just as a starter which hole are you in right now on the mounting bracket.

If you want to start your own thread for others to follow.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:50 am
by kdog
Tom

The boat is winterized and tucked away until around March so I'll have to wait for a while. I'll revisit this issue later on and start a new thread when shes back on the water. I just figured I'd try to figure a few things out during the downtime.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:50 pm
by Larry B
Larry,
I've probably been the biggest pain in asking questions?? I'm sure you wish I would have built a different boat.
Well, I've got a favor to ask of you? Again?? I'm going to build my own trailer and I need a couple of measurements before I go pick up material. I've got another project I'm starting so I want to get all the steel at the same time. I'm pretty sure your trailer is made with 4" channel (can't tell if it's steel or Aluminum?) but doesn't matter because I'm using steel. Would like to use aluminum but don't have the welder to weld it, so steel it is.
What I would like if you don't mind?
Is width of trailer? outside to outside of channel at rear?
Distance from end of trailer to where the channel starts it bend?
Overall lenght of trailer, tongue to end of trailer?
Front of tongue to where the square 4" tube meets the channel?
Distance from rear to axle center, I believe this is also where the center channel is located? If not please provide that dimension also.
I do apoligize for being a pain, but the way your trailer is built makes for a easy mfg. for me and I know it fits the OD :D
Thanks in advance should you desire to take on this task???? I know it's cold over there and I'm in no hurry other than I need to pick up the steel for my other project?
Larry B

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well Larry B, I ain't going out there tonight, being as it's supposed ta sleet and snow, but I'll measure it for ya in the morning if it gets above freezing.:lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, I braved the cold, took it for the team :lol: Dang I wish it would warm up. We've never been this cold for this long :?
I'm pretty sure your trailer is made with 4" channel (can't tell if it's steel or Aluminum?)


The tongue is 3 X 3 square tubing. Everything else is 3 X 1 1/2 [ channel. Galvanized steel.
Is width of trailer? outside to outside of channel at rear?
66 inches
Distance from end of trailer to where the channel starts it bend?
106"
Overall lenght of trailer, tongue to end of trailer?
20' even to the frame, plus the bunk boards extend 8" aft of the trailer frame. Total 20'8"
Front of tongue to where the square 4" tube meets the channel?
48"
Distance from rear to axle center,
52" to center of axle
I believe this is also where the center channel is located? If not please provide that dimension also.
56" to center channel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:50 pm
by Larry B
Larry, Thank You very much. Thats enought info for me to make a drawing and get my steel. Yea this global warming really sucks, I think it should be call global frost bite :doh:
It's not too bad here in AZ, we are in the 70's during the day but go down to 40's at night.
If you hate the cold as much as I do, (born and raised in Utah Snow) you were probably cussing me while taking the measurements, but i sure do appreciate it. Hope to meet you someday and I for sure owe ya. :D
My trailer won't be galvanized, just steel but I'll primer it with Probably system 3 primer and paint it to match the boat. Probably going with the torsion axle so I don't have to mess with the springs.
Thanks Again,

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
No problem Larry.

Been cutting firewood again, split another cord today. This cold is giving me plenty of exercise anyway :lol: We had a high of 39 today, real windy, low tonight supposed to be 18 :help: It's been like this for a week and forecast for another week.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:21 am
by TomD
Hi Larry,

I have an OD 18 too - I do quite a bit of fishing with it here in Kenya. Was wondering whether you have outriggers on yours and what your spread is like when you troll offshore. My only gripe with my boat is sometimes going into chop I have to troll slower than I would like as it pounds otherwise. When I gets choppy I prefer to live bait that way I can slow down to 3.5 knots from 6 (we use little Frigate Mackeral her)

Also I saw that you got a crack where your gunwale attaches to your front deck after your rough day at sea - my boat tends to get cracks there as well - though over time. I am constantly patching them. If I did it again I would have cut the front mould to incorporate that bracket.

Anyways great job on your boat.

Best wishes,

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:54 am
by Cracker Larry
Hello, Tom and thanks for the kind words. Yes, I've got outriggers, they are 15' each so I get a spread of about 35 feet. I haven't used them much, I do more inshore fishing than offshore with this boat, but they are there if I need them. I also use them at anchor fishing for cobia, they allow me to spread out 6 lines with live bait.
my boat tends to get cracks there as well - though over time. I am constantly patching them. If I did it again I would have cut the front mould to incorporate that bracket.
Yeah, that would have been the thing to do. I'm sure I haven't seen the last of these cracks :cry:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:04 am
by macs
Hey Larry,

I wanted to get some thoughts on wiring. I didn't see a fuse panel on yours for unswitched items liked stereo, gps, 12v acc.....

Did you run them through one or more of the fused switches on you panel?

Looks like you have dedicated switches for most all. I was thinking of going with a panel with 6 switches.

Nav/panel lights
Anchor light
Courtesy lights
Bilge pump
Acc --Stereo, Gps, Sonar/fish finder, 12v acc plug.

If I ran all those on the acc switch/breaker, would a smaller in line fuse be necessary to the lower amp items like gps and sonar? :doh:

Macs

PS anyone elses comments always welcome.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:05 am
by gk108
Unless you have a 3 wire bilge pump, you'll be better off bypassing the switch for the pump. That will make sure that you never forget to turn the pump on. No fuse for the bilge pump line, either. Minimize the number of connections that might corrode. If you have a 3 wire pump, one circuit will pass through the switch for manual operation, but the other should be direct to the battery.

For the other accessories, I'd run them through a switch and fuse. Then you can turn off the whole group at the end of the day with one switch. The fuse should be sized to the wire for that circuit. The stereo and some of the other items will have their own inline fuse rated for that item.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:17 am
by TomW
You don't switch the bilge pump. For the Accessories the fuse must be for the smallest of the them. My GPS is 3amps so that is what you would have to fuse for.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:38 am
by gk108
macs wrote: If I ran all those on the acc switch/breaker,
TomW wrote:For the Accessories the fuse must be for the smallest of the them.
That's wrong, Tom. Set it up your way and the fuse blows when two or more items are turned on at the same time. :roll:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:00 pm
by TomW
Your right, of course he'd totally blow that fuse when he flipped that switch. :lol: I'm planning on a seperate fuse & switch for everything plus the battery switch. To me that's the best way.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dang, I leave and go fishing for a few hours and look what happens while I'm away :lol:
Hey Larry,

I wanted to get some thoughts on wiring. I didn't see a fuse panel on yours for unswitched items liked stereo, gps, 12v acc
I don't have any unswitched or unfused items, with one exception. The auto-float switch and bilge pump are wired directly to the battery, no fuse just like GK says. The bilge pump also has another hot wire that is fused and switched. My switch panel is fused for every circuit. Everything is wired about like GK says :wink:

Let's start at the beginning. There is a battery cut off switch located right at the battery. It a big 1-2-Both-Off rotary switch. The output of that goes to a 50 amp breaker. From that a buss bar then to fused switch panels. Mine main has 8 switches and fuses. I wired the pump switch to one end of the switch bank, so you can find it in the dark. Next is nav lights, then anchor light, instrument lights, VHF, GPS/Plotter, bait well, and electronics box on the T-top. I ran a 20 amp circuit up to the box, it has terminal strips for connecting other devises, and a I made a switch panel for it. Each individual device has an in-line fuse rated for their particular need. So, for instance between my now useless LORAN, in the box, and the battery, there are 2 switches and 2 fuses plus the main breaker. The closest fuse to the device protects the device, and is smallest, the farthest one protects the wiring and they are sized to the rating of the wire.

So everything is switched, and everything is fused except the bilge pump. The main switch shuts down the entire boat, except for the automatic pump. The only way to stop that pump is to cut the wire :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:55 pm
by macs
Priceless!!!!!!!!!!LOL

That makes good since of it. What size wire(s) and what size fuses in the panel?

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Larry, you might have to take a lap top with you in the future. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Macs

Re:

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:54 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Both, it goes to the sump where there is a 2000 GPH pump, and an 1 1/4 drain plug out the transom. That drain now has a brass tube in it.
Larry this post goes back a ways, but had a question about that 1 1/4" drain? In your opinion does it need the 1 1/4" or would 1" be plenty? Main reason is I can't find a 1 1/4" flare tool anywhere on the net :doh:
Also on your side drains? If you had it to do over would you do it the same? I like the way they come out the side of the hull, but was wondering if they would work better going out the transom? I know it's alot more work because I would have to put hose's between the lockers and transom :doh: I want to drill my Transom drain while it's all open :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
In your opinion does it need the 1 1/4" or would 1" be plenty?
Bigger is always better with drains. The 1 1/4 drains twice the water as a 1". I used them for everything except locker drains, got at least 6 of them.

Main reason is I can't find a 1 1/4" flare tool anywhere on the net


That's no excuse :lol: Just so happens that I have one :wink: It's on loan to Aripeka Angler at the moment, and I need to use it again on a small project, then I'll send it out to ya. I wouldn't flare in the tubes until you are finished painting, inside and out.
Also on your side drains? If you had it to do over would you do it the same? I like the way they come out the side of the hull, but was wondering if they would work better going out the transom?
Gravity is gravity, no matter which way it leads, it starts and ends up at the same place. They work just fine. I keep them plugged when underway unless I need to drain a lot of water, which almost never happens.
I know it's alot more work because I would have to put hose's between the lockers and transom I want to drill my Transom drain while it's all open
Not to mention the hoses get in the way of bait wells and batteries. Drill it for 1 1/4, transom drain, motorwell drains and cockpit drains. We'll get ya a flaring tool.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
What size wire(s) and what size fuses in the panel?
Sorry, I missed this question. I'm using #4 wire from the battery to the console. 12 ga to radio, pumps, electronics and instrument box. 16 ga for side lights, cockpit lights, stern light, dash/gauge wiring. I've got all the circuits fused for 20 amps.
16 ga wire is rated for 40 amps at 12V so the 20 amp fuses will safely protect the wiring while easily carrying the loads.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:08 pm
by Larry B
Thanks Alot Larry,
I won't need the flaring tool for quite awhile. I just needed to know what size to drill for. I'll get the 1 1/4" tubes and I can do them all at the same time which won't be for quite some time :D I'm making my own outboard drilling jig. It will be made out of 1 1/2" wood with copper sleeves for the drill guide. Had to make good use of the wood I bought for the Transom that I didn't use. I think it's going to turn out very nice and I'll be willing to send it to folks who need one. I'm going to try to make it fit into one of those Priority Mail box's that you get free at the P.O. to make it easy to mail if someone needs it.
Thanks again for all your help,

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:40 pm
by macs
Thanks for the wiring info Larry. I started rigging today (posted a few pics) I'm sure I'll need some ideas before I'm through wiring.

Thanks again to all,

Macs :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:52 am
by macs
I have another issue. I ran 2 ga from the battery in the console back to the motor. It's really too big to go inside the cowling through the normal gromets. Could I use the original battery cable,(that came with the motor, I think it's 4 ga), to make that connection. I thought about using a junction or buss to make the transition. The 2 ga run is about 15'. The original cables are about 3' long.

The 2 ga was probable over kill, but it's what I was able to get from my local dealer. I've gotten a lot of stuff from him at a very good price.

What do you think???? :doh:

Macs

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:00 am
by Cracker Larry
Run that 2 ga, and your engine wire both to the "On" terminal of your battery switch. Both negatives to the negative battery terminal. Put the battery switch where you show the junction box.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:14 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote: Put the battery switch where you show the junction box.
Not to doubt your expertise Larry but isn't it better to place the switch as close as possible to the battery? In the sketch situation most part of the cable will be always under power.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:36 am
by Cracker Larry
Yes, that would be better. Maybe a terminal stud would be a better idea in this situation. My batteries are in the stern locker so I don't have that split location problem. Both of those cables need to connect to the main breaker too. You're right, I wasn't thinking clearly, not enough coffee yet :wink:

Something like this

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:51 pm
by macs
Not sure if I understand what difference it makes where the switch is. If it's on, The entire run is under power no matter where the switch is located, isn't it ?????. :doh:

Guess I wouldn't be asking if I understood it completely.

Locating the switch in the stern would make it easy to access through a hatch while standing beside the boat on trailer. Instead of having to climb aboard.

One draw back is I'd have to run power back forward to supply the instruments and accessories.

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:55 pm
by macs
So I guess transitioning to the smaller guage wire with that long a run will be ok? That was my biggest concern. If so, the terminal stud sounds like the best way. I'll put the switch in the console with the batteries.

Still unclear on the difference in switch location, if someone could explain please.

Thanks,

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:32 pm
by cape man
No way to draw it right now, but the switch comes off the positive of the battery(ies) and then feeds your engine and electronics. When off, the only wires that are still hot are the ones coming from the battery(ies). If you locate the switch in the stern and the batteries are under the console, that line is hot. Even if there is no "current" running through it, it is hot. Better to have the switch located as close to the batteries as possible.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:01 am
by macs
That's right. What effect does that have on the battery?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:22 am
by cape man
I am just a dumb fish head, so don't take what I say as gospel when it comes to electricity. I assume there is heat loss over time through the wire and thus a constant (although very small) drain between the battery and switch with a long run.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:26 pm
by ks8
With 12 VDC, if you have long runs between the battery and the main battery switch, it will not drain your battery if the circuit is open, but it means that much more live conductor *run* might possibly short out even when you think all power is off. It is safer to have minimal *live* circuits when power is intentionally off. To paint a picture, what if you have the scenario of an accidental fuel spill in the boat? Even if it is an *electric troller* boat, you might have a camp stove aboard for a hot lunch. A properly wired switch, in a box, would be much more explosive resistant in the presence of explosive fumes, and when it is turned off, near the battery, you know the rest of the wiring in the boat is now *dead* and much safer during the cleanup (which is a good case for having at least a fused and spark free power switch, of some sort, on your bilge pump as well, even if the bilge circuit is directly run off the battery instead of the main buss panel(s)).

When the main panels are live with the main switch on, there can be much loss if the long run is not heavy enough gauge. Resistance dissipates as heat, and causes a voltage drop. Most boat wiring books or bibles will have the ABYC gauge minimums listed in one way or another, that will keep this *loss and voltage drop from resistance* to a reasonable and *safe* minimum, for the expected loads. Those specifications help prevent excessive voltage drops to the target device. Some electronic device circuits (or data) may be compromised if you try to operate them at too low a voltage than that for which they are designed.

AC would be a little different based on proximity to potential inductor surfaces, including ground, but that is a non-issue here.

I think this has all been mentioned elsewhere, even in this thread, already, but there's a quick reminder to save a search. :)

Re:

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:48 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
Image
Larry, a few more questions?
What size hatch's did you use? It looks like in this picture you used 17x13 on the sides and 23x13 in the motor well? But if this is the case, how did you maintain the 5" (I believe this is what you need at the transom?) When measuring mine, I can't see how to get that size hatch with the 5"? :doh: Any help here would be appreciated?
Also, what is the reason for the side hatchs to open in towards the boat?? Seems the lid would be in the way? Seems like it should open out towards the side where when open it would be easy to reach in for bait :doh:

Thanks in Advance

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:17 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Might I suggest:

Image

It is a rather expensive book ( cover price is $49.95 ) but it is written for the lay person, and answers every question you can think of including some pretty heady stuff about grounding and electrolytic corrosion. It covers both AC and DC circuits and includes trouble shooting as well as design best practices and references about every governing rule in the world.

A good investment to be sure ( IMHO ) :) Hope you don't mind me crashing your thread with big pictures CL, I thought it fitting. TDDD

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:39 pm
by stickystuff
I don;t think it really matters to much. Make it to where it is convenient for you. Always hook any switch to your positive side of the terminals. Just make sure the wire is heavy enough to carry the load on a distant that far from the engine.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hope you don't mind me crashing your thread with big pictures CL, I thought it fitting. TDDD
Not a bit, feel free to carry on 8) I ain't real fussy unless you pee on my foot and tell me it's raining :lol:
What size hatch's did you use? It looks like in this picture you used 17x13 on the sides and 23x13 in the motor well?
I don't remember, that sounds about right. I'll have to measure them for you tomorrow.
But if this is the case, how did you maintain the 5" (I believe this is what you need at the transom?) When measuring mine, I can't see how to get that size hatch with the 5"? Any help here would be appreciated?
The general rule around hatches and frames is 3", I haven't heard of 5" (I don't think, oldtimers makes me forget what I know sometimes :lol: ) In any case, in the plans, the motorwell doesn't have a top section creating a splash well, it's just a big open box. Building the splash well like I did makes the whole structure much stronger. I still think I have close to 5", but I done put on my fuzzy feet and ain't wading outside tonight to check.
Also, what is the reason for the side hatchs to open in towards the boat?? Seems the lid would be in the way? Seems like it should open out towards the side where when open it would be easy to reach in for bait


Because the width of the side deck doesn't allow them to open past 90 degrees in the other direction. Even though I narrowed the decks there, the hatches can't open far enough to stay open, maybe about 85 degrees. Inwards I can open them fully and not need another hand to hold them up. And if the hatches were any smaller you couldn't get a battery box in them. Opening inward they aren't in the way of anything, they open flat and stay there and can't smash your hand while you are chasing a bait around the well.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:52 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
The general rule around hatches and frames is 3", I haven't heard of 5" (I don't think, oldtimers makes me forget what I know sometimes :lol: ) In any case, in the plans, the motorwell doesn't have a top section creating a splash well, it's just a big open box. Building the splash well like I did makes the whole structure much stronger. I still think I have close to 5", but I done put on my fuzzy feet and ain't wading outside tonight to check. .
I know the 3" rule, I just thought (get in trouble everytime I do that?) that you needed 5" at the Transom?? Maybe I just had a bad dream one night :doh:
Don't blame you not going out in the cold. I wouldn't :wink:
Because the width of the side deck doesn't allow them to open past 90 degrees in the other direction. Even though I narrowed the decks there, the hatches can't open far enough to stay open, maybe about 85 degrees. Inwards I can open them fully and not need another hand to hold them up. And if the hatches were any smaller you couldn't get a battery box in them. Opening inward they aren't in the way of anything, they open flat and stay there and can't smash your hand while you are chasing a bait around the well.
Make sense to me. I wasn't thinking that they opened all the way flat :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, they open completely flat, I'll take a pic tomorrow. It ain't the cold right now that's so bad, it's the water. I have to put on rubber boots to leave the porch.
I know the 3" rule, I just thought (get in trouble everytime I do that?) that you needed 5" at the Transom?? Maybe I just had a bad dream one night
If that's so, I've forgot it :lol: But we are doubling the transom support with the splash well cover, and I doubled all my transom glass anyway :wink: I think it could carry a 300 OK :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:56 pm
by macs
Thanks again for the advice, everyone.

Macs :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:56 am
by Cracker Larry
What size hatch's did you use? It looks like in this picture you used 17x13 on the sides and 23x13 in the motor well? But if this is the case, how did you maintain the 5" (I believe this is what you need at the transom?) When measuring mine, I can't see how to get that size hatch with the 5"? Any help here would be appreciated?
OK Larry, measurements taken (again) I drink Knob Creek BTW :wink:

The side hatches are 13X17 and the tops of the side lockers are 27" deep. This allows 10" of wood, 5" forward and 5" aft at the transom.

The motorwell is 24" deep, so the 13" hatch leaves 11" of fudge factor or 5.5" forward and aft. So yes, I do have 5+ inches at the transom with all of them. Realize too that the cut outs are almost 2" smaller than the exterior hatch size, due to the 1" or so lip on the hatch, so there is really 6", or a little more, of wood in front of the transom.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:58 pm
by Larry B
Thanks Larry, I owe ya some Knob Creek :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
I owe ya some Knob Creek


Perfect 8) So does Tom :wink:
23x13 in the motor well?
Forgot to answer this, yes.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:03 pm
by TomW
Yep Knob's Creek is mighty fine, but I'll take the aged Maker's Mark at the same price. Better yet I'll take the one of the Canadians I grew up drinking. I used to love the Scotch Whiskey's but they are so over priced these days I won't drink them. Larry, your Knob's Creek will be with me when Deb and I come down in May.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:34 am
by Cracker Larry
TomW wrote:Yep Knob's Creek is mighty fine, but I'll take the aged Maker's Mark at the same price. Better yet I'll take the one of the Canadians I grew up drinking. I used to love the Scotch Whiskey's but they are so over priced these days I won't drink them. Larry, your Knob's Creek will be with me when Deb and I come down in May.
Makers Mark will do just fine too :wink:

Re:

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:17 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
Image
Larry, I was wondering if there was any reason that you put pads down for your pumps? Other than your Transducer?
Reason I ask is I was planing on putting down two layers of 3/8" ply over the entire bottom. But before I do I'm asking that there may be a reason for not doing so?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:56 am
by Cracker Larry
I just didn't want to screw anything directly to the bottom of the boat, it's only 1/2", not enough thickness for screws. I also wanted backing for the through-hull water pick up, and some extra backing plate room in case I want to mount a through-hull transducer in the future.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:40 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:I just didn't want to screw anything directly to the bottom of the boat, it's only 1/2", not enough thickness for screws. I also wanted backing for the through-hull water pick up, and some extra backing plate room in case I want to mount a through-hull transducer in the future.
I think I didn't explain well enough :doh: I understand the thickness for the screws, as I'm going to build it up 3/4" also, I was just wondering if there would be anything wrong with building up the whole area? instead of just using pads?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
No, other than extra weight and materials, and in my case I would have had to work around the transducer because that section is solid glass and doesn't need to be any thicker.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:18 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:No, other than extra weight and materials, and in my case I would have had to work around the transducer because that section is solid glass and doesn't need to be any thicker.
Thanks Larry, thats what I figured that you didn't want it any thicker at the transducer. Just wanted to make sure there wasnt any other reason other than some weight.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:30 pm
by Steven
Hey CL,

Why did you choose the type of water pickup for your live well you chose. I'm a live well newbie, but am going to put one in the port side stern locker. You have a pump so I'm curious as to the pickup. I'm guessing it's for keeping the water turned over during long runs. Is that correct? Does the top drain keep up with the pump? What GPH rating is your pump?

Any issues pulling wires through the flex chases you used?


Thanks,
Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
Why did you choose the type of water pickup for your live well you chose. I'm a live well newbie, but am going to put one in the port side stern locker. You have a pump so I'm curious as to the pickup. I'm guessing it's for keeping the water turned over during long runs. Is that correct?


The screen on the pickup keeps out the bigger chunks of seaweed and marsh grass. The scoop picks up water anytime the boat is running, so you don't have to use the pump except when stopped
What GPH rating is your pump?
It's a 500 Rule. My baitwell is 10 gallons, so the pump can completely replace the water 50 times an hour. The scoop without the pump will provide twice that much water if the boat is planing.
Does the top drain keep up with the pump?
No, that's where I messed up :oops: The 1" drain cannot keep up with the pump. I have a valve on the spray bar that I have to partially close to keep the well from overflowing. It also had to have a screen on the overflow, so that shrimp wouldn't escape and small baitfish wouldn't clog it completely. The screen further reduced the out flow. So I use both the seacock and the spray bar valves to keep the input equalling the output. When I have a really full tank of bait, like at Boca Grande with 200 white baits and a few dozen shrimp in the well, I just let her rip and she overflows out the top of the hatch and into the motorwell, then out the motorwell drains. This increases the well capacity to about 15 gallons, but it looks unseamanlike with all that water coming out of the hatch :lol: I need to install another overflow when I've got nothing else to do.
Any issues pulling wires through the flex chases you used?
It's not flex chases to the pump sump, it's 1" rigid PVC conduit. No problems at all. The transducer has a big molded plug on the cable end that has to fit down that pipe, so pull the transducer cable first. The only places I used flex were the side lights and fuel sending unit. Also, put a pull string in all your chases when you are installing them. It's a lot easier to pull a cable than to push one :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:05 pm
by Steven
Thanks CL, Do you think 2 drains@ 1 1/4" drains with screens would keep up? It didn't look like you rounded the corners, which seems to be preferred for keeping fishin from killing themselves. Not having experience with live wells, I don't know how critical that is. I'll round em if needed, but don't like to do extra work that's not required.

Thanks,
Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
For sure. I think that even one 1 1/4" drain would probably handle it. Since the input is only 3/4, I figured the 1" would work, but it doesn't.

Round is always better for fish, for sure, but to put a round well in a rectangle hole would cost a lot of volume, and it's only 10 gallons as it is. I used very generous fillets in all the seams, rounding them good, you don't want sharp corners, but that's all. So far I haven't heard any complaints from the bait :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:35 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
What size wire(s) and what size fuses in the panel?
Sorry, I missed this question. I'm using #4 wire from the battery to the console. 12 ga to radio, pumps, electronics and instrument box. 16 ga for side lights, cockpit lights, stern light, dash/gauge wiring. I've got all the circuits fused for 20 amps.
16 ga wire is rated for 40 amps at 12V so the 20 amp fuses will safely protect the wiring while easily carrying the loads.
Larry, just want to make sure you didn't make a typo error :doh: I think you meant 14 ga wire for the 40 amps??? Reason I checked it was I couldn't see why you would use 16 ga and then skip 14 ga and go to 12 ga?? Just don't want someone here useing 16 ga and fusing it with 20 amp fuse as that is all 16 ga is rated for and it could cause a fire :help: I'm getting ready to order wire and was just double checking and found this information.

If this info is wrong, please point me in the right direction :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:18 am
by Cracker Larry
You are correct. Typo :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:42 pm
by Larry B
Larry, I've got a question as usual. I'm curious if you made your transom as per plans for a 20" shaft? Reason I'm asking is, (and I'm just being anal here) is in the following picture your clamping board rises up aprox. 2" above the top of the lower side panel :doh:
The top of my clamping board is even with the top of the lower side panel :doh: I've checked all my measurements per the plans and I'm right on the money with the size and that is why I'm asking? It doesn't make a difference but like I said I'm curious????
Also I inserted a picture of Cape Mans and his is also even with the top of lower side panel :doh: I know Cape Man and myself came up with the sides higher than the transom, but that would be the top panel and not have anything to do with the bottom panel.
Hoping you can shed some light on this.
This is yours.
Image
This is Cape Mans.
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
You sure don't miss much :lol: 8)

I made my cut out 1 1/2" higher than the plans :wink: I knew I'd be running my engine high and I wanted all the transom height I could get. With my experiences on a GF12 and a GF16, following the plans left the engine lower than I like it on a flat bottom boat. I measured the foot length of a Yamaha 90 before I made the cut out.

My clamping board is a 2X10, instead of the called for 2X8 also.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:32 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:You sure don't miss much :lol: 8)

I made my cut out 1 1/2" higher than the plans :wink: I knew I'd be running my engine high and I wanted all the transom height I could get. With my experiences on a GF12 and a GF16, following the plans left the engine lower than I like it on a flat bottom boat. I measured the foot length of a Yamaha 90 before I made the cut out.

My clamping board is a 2X10, instead of the called for 2X8 also.
Larry, no I don't miss too much :D Been this way most my life and I figure at my age I ain't gonna change :D :D :lol:

OK, now I see where the 1 1/2" comes from.
The 2x10 vs 2x8 wouldn't make any difference in height if you didn't raise the cutout :wink:
Ok, so now I need to know if I'm going to have a problem with a 20" shaft and my 20" transom? Cape Man has a jack plate so he can raise his, but I won't have that??
I'm guessing others haven't had a problem so I should be OK.
I wish I could just be normal and not have to make verything to a knat's A$$
Thanks Larry

Re:

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:49 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
But we did get those last deck frames installed.....

Image
Larry (or anyone else)
Whats your thoughts on making the deck frames out of 3/8 instead of 1/2 ply?? I would still make the decks out of 1/2.
I've got lots of 3/8 and running low on 1/2.

Larry B

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Whats your thoughts on making the deck frames out of 3/8 instead of 1/2 ply?? I would still make the decks out of 1/2.
I've got lots of 3/8 and running low on 1/2.
I would reverse it. Make the frames 1/2 and the deck 3/8. My casting deck, fore deck and side decks are all 3/8. It'sall solid as a rock.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:19 pm
by Larry B
Thanks Larry, that makes sense.
I'm trying to be able to make the one deck frame in one piece for the gunwale support. I don't suppose it would be a problem to splice that deck frame in the middle (vertical) with 12 oz biax on both sides??? Otherwise I can't make it complete with the gunwale supports. But then again I don't believe I'll be in anything near what you were in when those frames cracked either :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's no problem for the frame to be spliced down the middle. If you look close at the forward most frame in the pic above, you'll see it is spliced in the middle. I would make every effort to include the gunwale support on the frame piece. You never know what the future may bring, or where the next owner may wander.

No need to build in a weak link when we now know better :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:17 pm
by Larry B
Larry one more quick question. Somewhere in your thread you mentioned you wish you would have made your gunwales wider? I could be wrong but i believe you made yours 7"?? What would you suggest for the gunwale width?
thanks

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:21 pm
by peter-curacao
I
f you look close at the forward most frame in the pic above,
That dog is so cool! 8) it's like he poses for every pic you are taking, or did you train him that way? Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, mine are 8" where they join the bow deck and they make a gradual taper to 6" at about the rear edge of the casting deck. From there they are 6" all they way back to the rear frame.

Since the hull sides have so much flare, there is barely clearance for rod holders and the outrigger bases. There isn't clearance at certain mounting angles, and the outside bolts have to be very short, and are a b*tch to get a wrench on. Just another inch would make a lot of difference, 2" would be great. I think I'd make them about 7 1/2 to 8".

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
That dog is so cool! 8) it's like he poses for every pic you are taking, or did you train him that way? Image
No, he's just a natural who likes to be center of attention. He's smarter than I am, he trained me :wink:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:45 pm
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:
That dog is so cool! 8) it's like he poses for every pic you are taking, or did you train him that way? Image
No, he's just a natural who likes to be center of attention. He's smarter than I am, he trained me :wink:

Image
Now he/she looks like you epoxy glued him/her to the floor!Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
He's a fool. He's been glued to the floor a couple of times, glued his tail to his head once during a long nap, glued one foot to his neck... if there is glue, he's going to get it on him.

Image

he's been foamed too, and watched my escapades, he's real careful around foam now :lol:

Image

And he's been painted more than once. He's still got a white streak of Sterling down one side that's been there over a year. That's some good paint :!: And I've got streaks in my Sterling that will be there longer than a year :lol:

Image

He is my shadow, and best friend 8)

Re:

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:43 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:

Image

Larry, what is the rubber tube coming up close to the drain?? EDIT, I looked again, it's a brass tube drain you have sitting there,

Image

Where is the sump pump hose going to? and the wires before going back down to the sump and switch?? If I'm not mistaking, you are discharging the water from the sump on the starboard side??

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:14 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry, the discharge hose runs up to the top of the compartment then follows it around to starboard, then forward to the motor well bulkhead. It passes through the starboard motor well side, at the top, through the starboard locker to the through hull. If that doesn't make sense, I'll try to stand on my head and take a pic under there :D

The wires just run straight up to where they splice with the power cable. Even though the splice is covered with triple layers of heat shrink tubing, I wanted the connection to be as high as possible, with no chance of it sitting in water. The splice is tight against the underside of the motor well cover. If water ever gets that high, I'm sunk anyway :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:46 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:If that doesn't make sense, I'll try to stand on my head and take a pic under there :D

The wires just run straight up to where they splice with the power cable. Even though the splice is covered with triple layers of heat shrink tubing, I wanted the connection to be as high as possible, with no chance of it sitting in water. The splice is tight against the underside of the motor well cover. If water ever gets that high, I'm sunk anyway :lol:
Larry, no need to stand on your head :wink: Made perfect sense and it helps me. Thanks

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, No Excuse won't be going fishing for a while...

Image

The dogs have never seen snow..wished I hadn't :(

Image

Won't be swimming in the pool anytime soon either 8O

Image

Ugh..

Image

And the Savannah River is still flowing across our front yard :roll:

Image

Making the best of it with Peter and Gloria's Green Rum (Rom Berde)

Image

What else can ya do? Buy tickets to Costa Rica :idea:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:46 pm
by Larry B
That really sucks, I decided to go to the lake again today. Took the wife and Dog and fished alittle bit, not even a bite :( But with the weather being so nice it didn't matter. I wanted to take my shirt off it was so nice, but then all the people would run and hide 8O
Hey Larry, It's been along time since I seen any of that white stuff, I can't remember :doh: Is it COLD :!: :!: :!: :wink:
Almost got a sunburn today :D Might go back Monday or Tuesday, suppose to be Mid 70's.

It won't be long now and you'll have good weather again. This is probably just that 100 year thing,
No Excuse, really looks Cold, Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:55 pm
by Dougster
Man, those pics are pretty, but No Excuse looks a little unhappy with it all. I know I would be. We don't get snow like that down here, but then I guess you shouldn't have it there either. I've never been around it much, except for my little hitch in the Air Force, a hundred years ago in Missouri, east of Kansas City. They had snow and ice and I never did get much used to it. Bet I could get used to green rum though.

Tries to be flexible Dougster

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:22 pm
by chicagoross
Great pics, Larry! As a former snow person (why do you think I live on a tropical island? :D ) I got to tell you that that snow is only the "makes it pretty" kind -- enjoy! Ya can't hate that; it's when you got to try do dig your car out, or maybe have to try to find it first (after the plows went by) that you can get to really hate the stuff!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:30 pm
by peter-curacao
Good for Christmas postcards that it Image

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:08 pm
by Bowmovement
I dont mind snow too much as long as it abides by my rules....

I go to the snow, snow is not allowed to come to me 8)

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:21 pm
by peter-curacao
Bowmovement wrote:I dont mind snow too much as long as it abides by my rules....

I go to the snow, snow is not allowed to come to me 8)

Matt
I kind of like Snow white! she's hot I like to F................................iesta with her Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
I decided to go to the lake again today. Took the wife and Dog and fished alittle bit, not even a bite :( But with the weather being so nice it didn't matter. I wanted to take my shirt off it was so nice, but then all the people would run and hide 8O
Hey Larry, It's been along time since I seen any of that white stuff, I can't remember :doh: Is it COLD :!: :!: :!: :wink:
Almost got a sunburn today :D Might go back Monday or Tuesday, suppose to be Mid 70's.
That hurts :help: Now you just keep on talking like that, and I'm cutting off all boat building advice :lol: :lol:
Tries to be flexible Dougster
Gots to be flexible Dougster. :D No, we don't get snow like this either. Lost power as soon as it started sleeting yesterday, got it back this afternoon. Supposed to be 20F tonight, I reckon all this slush slop will turn solid :doh: Lovely. How do yall Northerners live like this :help:
I kind of like Snow white!
Peter, you ain't right :lol: Are you in the Rom Berde tonight?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:35 pm
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:
I kind of like Snow white!
Peter, you ain't right :lol: Are you in the Rom Berde tonight?
Heeeuuh??? what are you talking about!! :P I'm in the Rom Blancu !!!! that's why!! im one of the dwarfs!! :D mamie es caliente!!!! Image Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:37 pm
by Bowmovement
peter-curacao wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote:
I kind of like Snow white!
Peter, you ain't right :lol: Are you in the Rom Berde tonight?
Heeeuuh??? what are you talking about!! :P I'm in the Rom Blancu !!!! that's why!! im one of the dwarfs!! :D mamie es caliente!!!! Image Image

I like Little Mermaid over Snow White...Something about those red heads.

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm in the Rom Blancu !!!! that's why!! im one of the dwarfs!! :D mamie es caliente!!!! Image Image
I knew it. :lol: Mamie es frio :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:56 pm
by Bowmovement
We need a chat function with all these fast replies

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:00 pm
by peter-curacao
Bowmovement wrote:
peter-curacao wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote:
Peter, you ain't right :lol: Are you in the Rom Berde tonight?
Heeeuuh??? what are you talking about!! :P I'm in the Rom Blancu !!!! that's why!! im one of the dwarfs!! :D mamie es caliente!!!! Image Image

I like Little Mermaid over Snow White...Something about those red heads.

Matt
Yea yea mami dami dami toma!! mi camaron pequeno :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:01 pm
by peter-curacao
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:03 pm
by Bowmovement
peter-curacao wrote:
Bowmovement wrote:

I like Little Mermaid over Snow White...Something about those red heads.

Matt
Yea yea mami dami dami toma!! mi camaron pequeno :lol:
What language is that?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:05 pm
by cape man
Peter, Peter, Peter....We are so glad you're back! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:10 pm
by peter-curacao
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:11 pm
by peter-curacao
Bowmovement wrote:
What language is that?
Not American!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:17 pm
by Bowmovement
peter-curacao wrote:
Bowmovement wrote:
What language is that?
Not American!
Well, I tried french and spanish in a translator and nothing. Oh, well. I need to get back to guitar learning.

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:19 pm
by cape man
My little shrimp.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:20 pm
by peter-curacao
Bowmovement wrote:
peter-curacao wrote:
Bowmovement wrote:
What language is that?
Not American!
Well, I tried french and spanish in a translator and nothing. Oh, well. I need to get back to guitar learning.

Matt
Please don't go! we understand! don't we??? :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:22 pm
by Bowmovement
[/quote]Please don't go! we understand! don't we??? :P[/quote]


Just bought a new guitar and I am bound and determined to learn to play it.

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:24 pm
by peter-curacao
:? :? :? okay what ever makes you feel like a happy boy :P :P :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:07 am
by TomW
Yea yea mami dami dami toma!! mi camaron pequeno
Really Peter! :oops: :oops: :oops: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:27 am
by Cracker Larry
Well, I tried french and spanish in a translator and nothing. Oh, well.
The universal language of the islands :wink: Papiemento/Creole

If you think it's a challenge to communicate with Peter in writing, you should try it in 1st. person :lol: It gets easier after about 6 drinks. Then we can both speak in the same tongues 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:13 am
by Larry B
Larry, I found something you might be interested in :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.snow-boat.com/sb/

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:28 am
by Cracker Larry
I ain't interested in anything having to do with snow :roll:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:37 pm
by kdog
I saw this in Larry's front yard the other day.

Image

All kidding aside, man you guys are getting creamed down south. Up here it really hasn't been that bad, I guess I'm used to it but jeez from your pics that is just not normal.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:45 pm
by peter-curacao
Image To COOL Image Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's perfect Kdog :!: :!: Thanks :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:11 pm
by mecreature
I saw a couple storms that missed us by 200 miles to the south..

We got snow up past an in our bloomers.
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:22 am
by wegcagle
Great picture Kdog. That's how most of us feel here in GA. :lol:

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:57 pm
by kdog
Cracker Larry wrote:That's perfect Kdog :!: :!: Thanks :lol:
Haha, I knew you'd get a kick out of it. :D
wegcagle wrote:Great picture Kdog. That's how most of us feel here in GA. :lol:

Will
If and when I move south I think I'm going to have to think about going further than I thought. :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:51 am
by TomW
If and when I move south I think I'm going to have to think about going further than I thought.
I thought I'd moved far enough south to Kdog :lol: Still wanted the seasons but not the bitter cold, not this winter. 8O

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:08 am
by Cracker Larry
It's spring maintenance time, although it doesn't feel like spring, it's supposed to be :? We'll do the best we can in case spring happens to show up sometime before fall. I like to keep everything in top shape and ready to fish.

As I mentioned in LarryBs thread last week, I had started with greasing the zerks on the engine and trailer, and the Bearing Buddy zerk fittings on the trailer both self destructed with a squirt of grease, so I held off for a better moon before tackling the rest. This ain't no Etec, can't just push a button to get this stuff done :lol: Further investigation and trips to town revealed that my bearing buddies were cheap Chinese imitations :x , and not real Bearing Buddies, and even the Agri-Supply couldn't match those zerk fittings with the 200 or so types they had in stock, so I got a new set of real Bearing Buddies and installed them. It was painless and they are much nicer than the counterfeits. Got the trailer back into new condition and road ready. She's got a couple thousand miles ahead of her this spring and summer.

Next on the list is pulling the prop and draining the gearcase. In our salt, if you don't pull the prop about twice a year, clean and grease the splines on the shaft, hub and thrust bearing, you'll never get it off again without a mallet and wheelpuller, I don't care who made the engine :lol: Take it apart, clean it and re-grease it all. Twice a year or every 50 hours, whichever comes first. Make sure no fishing line is wrapped up and cutting the seals. If you've got some dings in the prop, take a file and smooth them out. Big dings need a prop shop.

Yamaha lives in the real saltwater world, and recommends changing the gear oil after the first 10 hours, then every 50 hours. They don't play that 300 hour stuff :wink: With a new engine, you've got all those brand new gears breaking in, meshing together, and learning to live in concordance and harmony, they have a lot of wear in their first few hours. Wear creates metal filings that run around in the lube creating more wear. No matter the make or the marketing hype, this is a fact. I changed mine after 10 hrs, after 25 hours, and now at 75 hours.

Image

Tilt the engine where the drain is at the lowest point, and let it drain a long time, at least an hour. Tilt it up, tilt it down, back up, back down, the nastiest funk you want to get rid of comes out in the last ounce or 2 of drips. Let it drip until nothing comes out. Then you get this...

Image

See the milky colored area that I tried to draw a circle around? That is caused by condensate water in the lube. I tried to get the light right where you can also see the fine metal particles. This gear oil has about 5 months and 50 hours of use. It has trace water and metal particles in it. Third changing in a year. So does yours if you haven't changed it. All gearboxes condensate and all gearsets wear, no matter the brand, no matter what they say. If you leave it in there for 3 years, well, it ain't good. The moisture will pit the gears, leading to more friction, more wear, more metal, a downward spiral to destruction. Gearcases are the weakest link on an outboard and the most expensive to repair, any of them.

Someone asked earlier in a closed thread how often we change the gear oil in our cars. My response would be at least as often as recommended. The gerabox in my truck doesn't spend it's life running submerged in salt water either :wink: If a seal leaks, salt water comes in. The only way we'll ever know it is to drain the lube and see how it looks. If we don't do it regular the damage can be extensive :( If you don't inspect it, how will you know?

Now that it's drained, level the engine and refill it. If it was really funky, I'd drain it, fill it, run it for 15 minutes, then drain it again. Yamaha makes a neat little pump that screws into the drain fitting and onto a quart of lube. Makes it easy, much easier than a squeeze tube. Level the engine and pump it in until it runs out the vent. Again give it plenty of time. Air bubbles can keep it from filling completely, let it burp and bubble until pure lube runs out the vent. If the manual says it holds 20 ounces, make dang sure you put 20 ounces into it before you quit.

Image

That done, we changed the plugs. 2nd set in 75 hours, no I ain't waiting 300. Cleaned the threads and seats, a little lube in the caps, new safety ties, cleaned and lubed everything else, tilt tube, steering tube, control linkages, everything. Gave every surface a coat of Yamalube spray.

Image

She looks like new, she runs like new. The only thing left to service is the water pump. I don't wait 300 hours for that either, about once every 75-100 is good if you use the engine regular, every year if you don't. Not today :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:30 am
by TomW
Hey it was sunny down there and I didn't see any dan gum water! Your making progress! :D I'm like you Larry I have an hour meter on the tach and 300 isn't it even if I by an Etec. Your baby looks pretty by the way. 8)

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:42 am
by macs
I like that pump Larry. I used a squeese bottle when I change mine. The pump with the fitting looks a lot easier. I'm with you also on changing everything more often than the book calls for.

Macs :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:45 am
by macs
I've never seen the spark plug trick. Cool 8)

Takes me back to my race days when we used to safety wire bolts, etc.. on our bikes.

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:56 am
by mecreature
Nice tutorial for a rookie like me.. thanks..

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:30 pm
by rjezuit
Larry, Why secure only one end of the plug wires? Looks to me with the vertical/down orientation the plug wires would come off of the coils first/easiest. Also doe Yammi have a magnetic drain plug? You would think that would capture the fine metal particles better than frequent oil changes. The fine particles tend to circulate during running, but settle out and get captured in crevices at the bottom of the LU pretty quickly. Rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Rick the plug wires are integral to the coils, they can't come apart there.

Yes, it has a magnetic drain plug, and it had a little black ball of iron filings on it as you would suspect. Good question. My WAG, is that not all the metal parts inside the gearcase are magnetic. These filings had a slight bronze tint to them, bushings maybe :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:49 pm
by steve292
I never commented on the locked thread, but I have a 1983/4 oil injected suzi, that I know the history of. The insides are like new, only the ptt has let me down & a o ring on the fuel connector.Not bad on a 25year old engine 8) .
The reason why- Gearcase lube every year
Waterpump impellor every year
New plugs every year
Flushed every saltwater trip


I am with the periodic maintainance brigade on this subject, I work in engineering, & let me tell you hard work kills horses & destroys engines, especially ones in hostile evironments if you don't perform at least basic maintainance.
Nice how too Larry 8)
Steve

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:08 pm
by rjezuit
Yea, Larry. Most of my LU is steel, but there are bronze bushings on the gears. Nice design on the Yammi if the plug wires are held fast in the coils. My 1956 Evinrude is still running strong though. But up here its fresh water and 6 month max boating seasons. Rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:05 pm
by kdog
Great breakdown of the spring maintenance Larry. I have the same motor an she still looks brand new after 4 years of use. But up here we have to winterize 'em, pretty much the same things you've done, but I add stabil and run the motor for a little, fog the cylinders, take the prop off and grease evertthing as you did as well as change the lower unit oil. So when and if spring comes she's ready to go. I was pleased that every time I changed the lower unit oil there has been just a slight graphite-like buildup on the drainplug. Oh and don't forget the fuel/water separator too.

Larry do use Yammi's Ring Free Fuel Additive? I have a marine mechanic freind who hooked me up with my motor and he said I should use it all the time. When he went to school they had 2 of the same motors, 1 that was run with the Ring Free and 1 without. After x amount of hours they ripped apart the motors an he couldn't beleive the amout of carbon deposits built up in the motor that didn't use it. He also said the motor running the additive looked amazingly new and clean.

I flush my motor with fresh water every time after I run it but I probably should do the water pump this year. I run in some really clean water, not too many shallows and no mud but I should do it soon.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yea, Larry. Most of my LU is steel, but there are bronze bushings on the gears.
That's what I figured, but I haven't tore into one of these LUs to see it, hope I never have too 8O
Oh and don't forget the fuel/water separator too.
Yep, I changed it too, just forgot to mention it. I do that every 25 hours.
Larry do use Yammi's Ring Free Fuel Additive?
No, I've never heard of it, hmmmm, very interesting. I use the Ethanol Stabil every time I fuel, but that's all. I'll check into that the next time I'm near the dealership. Thanks for the heads up on it :D
I flush my motor with fresh water every time after I run it but I probably should do the water pump this year. I run in some really clean water, not too many shallows and no mud but I should do it soon.
I also flush with fresh water after every use. My WP picks up a lot of mud and sand which wears the pump housing, not the impeller so much. The biggest thing that hurts impellers is sitting without being run. The rubber takes a set and loses it's flexibility. One other thing I do is run the engine every week, if I don't get to take it out. I usually fish 2 days a week, but I run the engine on the hose if I don't.
I have a 1983/4 oil injected suzi, that I know the history of. The insides are like new, only the ptt has let me down & a o ring on the fuel connector.Not bad on a 25year old engine .
Not bad :?: That's fabulous Steve! It's all about the maintenance :wink:

Speaking of spring, the weather man says it's going to be in the 60s and sunny for the next 3 days :D I'm going to be chasing some pig redfish on the flats this weekend!

I'm seriously considering building a FS18 next, just for flats fishing. The OD18 is great but it has too much windage to pole well.

Thanks for all the comments 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:46 pm
by rjezuit
Here's another product that a lot of people swear by called Seafoam. I have tried it and it works as advertised. It's a good cleaner, stabilizer and decarb fluid. Rick
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=302825

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:31 pm
by gstanfield
Nice looking setup, good to see another person who actually believes in maintanace. As I sit in this arctic wasteland with yet more snow falling (about 4 feet so far this winter I believe) I am working on plans to mave to the GA coast. If/when I make it down there I'll have to bring a "case of bribe" to get Larry to show me the ins and outs of coastal fishing in GA. I haven't fished the ICW since I was in my early teens and the 23 years I lived in GA was mostly spent chasin bass in the lakes of northeast GA.

You guys are killing me with an abundance of water that cannot be walked across.

George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:49 pm
by TomW
The FS18 would be a nice boat for you down there in all that shallow water when the tides are down Larry. Sure would let you get around easier. Might have to put a triple layer of fiberglass on her for all those oyster beds. :lol:

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:37 pm
by majorgator
Here's another product that a lot of people swear by called Seafoam
I poured a whole bottle of that stuff into my 1986 85HP Suzuki one time. It was during a time when I was doing some maintenance on the boat, motor, and trailer. After I poured the bottle in, and while it was running on the hose, the 'ole suzuki smoked like a chimney! After it had run for a while, I cut it off, and when I came back, there was so much black gunk along the base of the prop that had come out of the exhaust 8O 8O Don't know exactly how well Seafoam works, but it sure broke loose a lot of built-up gunk from my engine.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:13 pm
by SaltShaker01
majorgator wrote:
Here's another product that a lot of people swear by called Seafoam
I poured a whole bottle of that stuff into my 1986 85HP Suzuki one time. It was during a time when I was doing some maintenance on the boat, motor, and trailer. After I poured the bottle in, and while it was running on the hose, the 'ole suzuki smoked like a chimney! After it had run for a while, I cut it off, and when I came back, there was so much black gunk along the base of the prop that had come out of the exhaust 8O 8O Don't know exactly how well Seafoam works, but it sure broke loose a lot of built-up gunk from my engine.
Seafoam is great for decarboning an outboard or any engine really. I use a 1 gallon gas can and pour a bottle of seafoam in it and then top off with 3/4 gallon of gas at 50:1 oil. Then remove the fuel line from the racor and stick it in the one gallon tank and run the engine for 15 minutes and let sit for 15 minutes. I do this until the entire gallon of mix is gone and it completely cleans all carbon out of the engine. I will warn that the smoke is pretty bad from all the burning carbon. Definately want to do it on a windy day or you will choke. :help:

For you carburator guys there is Seafoam Deep Creep in a spray can that you can spray down the carburators while the motor is running to decarbon as well. You spray it in until the motor is choked out by it and dies and then wait 15 minutes to restart and repeat until hardly no smoke comes out.

Most already know this but for those who do not know I will say it again. Carbon buildup is the #1 cause for powerhead failures. It causes cylinder wear, stuck rings, tripping of the rings over the piston, excessive combustion cylinder temperatures. So it is very important to regularly decarbon your motor. Esp 2 strokes. And Yamaha "ring free" doesn't cut it. Might as well not use it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:17 pm
by onemilehigh
SaltShaker01 wrote:
majorgator wrote:
I will warn that the smoke is pretty bad from all the burning carbon. Definitely want to do it on a windy day or you will choke.
Seafoam will smoke a brand new engine. It is half pale oil, not too far off of what I used to dump into an old Stearman biplane's smoke system. I suppose the Naptha in it can help with carbon, but that magic smoke isn't all carbon going out the pipe.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:34 am
by Cracker Larry
I'll have to bring a "case of bribe" to get Larry to show me the ins and outs of coastal fishing in GA. I haven't fished the ICW since I was in my early teens and the 23 years I lived in GA
I never need much bribing to go fishing George :lol: It would be my pleasure to show you around 8)
Seafoam will smoke a brand new engine. It is half pale oil, not too far off of what I used to dump into an old Stearman biplane's smoke system. I suppose the Naptha in it can help with carbon, but that magic smoke isn't all carbon going out the pipe.
My thoughts too, I agree completely. It will also void the warranty on a new engine. I've got a 5 year warranty that I'd like to keep. If this stuff was needed, the manufacturers would recommend it. They don't. Nowhere in the maintenance schedule.
Carbon buildup is the #1 cause for powerhead failures. It causes cylinder wear, stuck rings, tripping of the rings over the piston, excessive combustion cylinder temperatures. So it is very important to regularly decarbon your motor. Esp 2 strokes. And Yamaha "ring free" doesn't cut it. Might as well not use it.
There are 2 primary causes of carbon build up. #1, using cheap oil. It leaves a lot of deposits and doesn't burn clean. Don't buy your 2 cycle oil at the convenience store. #2 Not changing plugs on a regular basis. Useful life of plugs in a 2 cycle is 25-50 hours. After that they degrade and the spark gets weaker and weaker, causing incomplete combustion and carbon build up. If you use good oil and change the plugs regularly, your engine will not need de-carboning for years. At which time you pull the heads and bead blast them.

Sure that stuff breaks up the carbon, look at all the chunks in the driveway under your exhaust. Carbon is very hard and very sharp. When you break that carbon loose in a running engine, the pistons will scrub your cylinder walls with those carbon chunks, scoring them badly. When seafoam first came out, my dealership had to replace 5 or 6 powerheads because of this. We learned real quick it's not a good idea. So it aint going in my engine :wink:

Got a redfish charter this afternoon, gone fishing :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:49 pm
by rjezuit
I agree with the cheap oil argument, in fact the synthetic or synthetic blends smoke less, are cleaner and produce less ash. The plug theory, I don't know. Weak spark is usually produced by bad components or dirty plugs. Once combustion starts the fuel/oil/air ratio dictates how hot it burns (simple thermodynamics). Will seafaom void the warranty? It's basically the same stuff as ring free if you look at the MSDS. Some solvents and "petroleum distillates"oil based products. The smoke is a combination of the pale oil and carbon burning. I think the oil lubes the components, the solvents soak into the carbon and cause them to burn. I mostly get smoke and black gunk, no flakes of carbon. Bead blasting the head gets the carbon off of the heads, but does nothing for the piston skirts/rings. I would assume Yammi says "other" cleaners will void the warranty just so they can sell ring free. In reality, there is no way they could tell what product you used. Rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
You won't get any argument from me, just giving my thoughts as a trained outboard mechanic and few years as a service manager :lol: We all think differently 8) I change the plugs in my aircraft 2 stroke Rotax every 10 hours, and it has 2 plugs per cylinder and dual ignition systems :wink:

Redfish bite was good today, they are liking the warmer weather :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:14 pm
by macs
I always thought the # 1 cause of powerhead failure was a bad water pump.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:19 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Redfish bite was good today, they are liking the warmer weather :D
Pictures :doh: Where are the pictures :doh: There not showing up :doh: I'm sure it's just something on my end :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:17 pm
by cape man
Redfish bite was good today, they are liking the warmer weather
I'm going out Sunday with two friends who helped sand. The reds seem to be the only fish left in Tampa Bay, so hoping I can find a few.

You ever put a seat in? I was showing off your boat in the snow to the guy who gave me the T-top and he said you need a leaning post. Now yes he does make them and sell them... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Said I'd pass his comments on. :roll:

(by the way, he couldn't believe that was Savanna!!!)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:51 pm
by majorgator
We learned real quick it's not a good idea. So it aint going in my engine
At the end of the day, the motor didn't run any better after the Seafoam than it did before the Seafoam. At $7 a bottle, it had better work miracles.
When seafoam first came out, my dealership had to replace 5 or 6 powerheads because of this.
Good information to know. One time was enough for me before reading this, and it will continue to be 8)

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:40 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Redfish bite was good today, they are liking the warmer weather
Larry, yall got some tough redfish up there. It is still a little chilly for them here. Are you getting really low tides there?
I'm going out Sunday with two friends who helped sand.
Are they bringing the gas :lol: If I bring a RO sander, can I come along too :doh:
Carbon buildup is the #1 cause for powerhead failures.
You sure about that :doh:

Larry, you all set up to come down for the opening of grouper season?

Richard

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
When seafoam first came out, my dealership had to replace 5 or 6 powerheads because of this.
Good information to know. One time was enough for me before reading this, and it will continue to be

seth
Let me clarify that a little. It wasn't my dealership, it was a dealership that I worked as service manager for. Sea Foam was new and proposed to be the best thing ever for winterizing engines and the product rep who visited us made a great show. We bought a few cases and our mechanics used it on about 2 dozen engines during their winterizing procedure. Out of those 2 dozen, we ruined at least 6 engines that we had to replace. Probably should have replaced them all. Some of them were still under warranty. The warranty was voided on them and we almost lost our Mercury dealership. Cost us about $50K. Yall put whatever snake oil you want to in your engines, it's OK with me :D
You ever put a seat in? I was showing off your boat in the snow to the guy who gave me the T-top and he said you need a leaning post
No, I really don't have room for it. Wish I had space. I've got a 96 Igloo with a cushion, but I stand to run the boat. I'd love a leaning post, but it would take up too much fishing room. The cooler I can move as needed. If I had about 2 more feet of cockpit space, yeah I would. Two people and one good cobia takes up the whole cockpit. Do you see room for a leaning post in this picture :lol: This is my son Chris..

Image

Only about 6 weeks to cobia time again :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:27 pm
by cape man
I'm going to post some pics of the boat after this weekend. Will take some shots from the roof down at work where we are meeting for a trip Sunday. The leaning post is great but it did chew up the cockpit space. I mounted it as far forward as possible which means I can never get fat, and no fat people can drive her.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, yall got some tough redfish up there. It is still a little chilly for them here. Are you getting really low tides there?
The redfish are resilient, they bite in weather I can't stand, if you can find them. The trout not so much, they aren't doing well :( The tides are normal, even a little high of normal. Low today was a +.4, high today was 7.8, both about a half foot higher than normal.
Larry, you all set up to come down for the opening of grouper season?


1 big @ss heavy bottom fishing rod. Check
1 medium bottom fishing rod. Check
1 big @ss heavy spinning rod. Check
1 medium spinning rod. Check
Leaders, hooks, sinkers, gloves, pliers. Check
3 sharpened filet knives. Check
Haven't told the wife yet. Check
Fuel. Sure glad I'm a guest. Check
I'll be there Monday, about 5 pm :D

Edit: 1 Dewalt R/0 sander. Check :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:35 am
by Cracker Larry
Pictures Where are the pictures There not showing up I'm sure it's just something on my end

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:16 am
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:
When seafoam first came out, my dealership had to replace 5 or 6 powerheads because of this.
You ever put a seat in? I was showing off your boat in the snow to the guy who gave me the T-top and he said you need a leaning post
No, I really don't have room for it. Wish I had space. I've got a 96 Igloo with a cushion, but I stand to run the boat. I'd love a leaning post, but it would take up too much fishing room. The cooler I can move as needed. If I had about 2 more feet of cockpit space, yeah I would. Two people and one good cobia takes up the whole cockpit. Do you see room for a leaning post in this picture :lol: This is my son Chris..

I'm wrestling with this now. Moving cardboard mockups of my console and leaning post about to see if I'm comfortable with it. Really want the leaning post. I can get 20" between the leaning post and the motorwell bulkhead, and 20" between the console and leaning post. Seems comfortable and that's enough room to move back and forth, but it does eat up a lot of space. Probably will launch with a cooler to see if that works and is comfortable. When I hit the coast to fish for some big 'uns, the extra space would be nice. But for long runs the leaning post would be best. Ugh! There's always a compromise.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:33 am
by rjezuit
I do not think any of us mean any disrespect, only have differences of opinion. There is always debate around products available in the after market. Funny thing is, most of the after market stuff, if not all of it, is private labeled for the big boys and is the exact same thing at a higher price. I do not know how many packaging lines I have seen where the only change in the product is the container, not what's in it. It costs more to reformulate than it does to "give away" the good stuff when you are running 200 bottles pr minute. An 8 minute change over of bottles versus a 30 minute change over of bottles and product. Do the math. Maybe Larry has been working since well before 1937, I doubt it, but maybe the product was new to them. Rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:41 pm
by bbuckl
Seafoam may have come out in 1937, but it did not reach national distribution until the 1980's.

I sure wish everyone would lighten up...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:37 pm
by tech_support
cheese and rice :!: lighten up folks :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Deleted by me, with apologies to Rick :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:10 pm
by Fonda@kauai
Don't let it get ya down Larry :wink: I can appreciate someone sharing practical experience. For someone like myself, with little experience, it's kinda the only way to know what's really going on. Above all else, remember guys that arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded. This is Larry's thread and he should be able to share his experience. You don't have to reply if you don't agree with him.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:50 pm
by ks8
cabin fever... thanks to all this global warming... :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:47 pm
by Fonda@kauai
Fortunately not really a concern here in HI. 78 degrees today 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:31 pm
by cape man
I guess i'm going to have to leave my own thread too.
Don't you dare! Screw it man. Let's go fishin'!!! :D :D :D :D :help: :help: :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:40 pm
by majorgator
I guess i'm going to have to leave my own thread too
No, its not worth it...give it another chance :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:50 pm
by peter-curacao
cape man wrote:
I guess i'm going to have to leave my own thread too.
Don't you dare! Screw it man. Let's go fishin'!!! :D :D :D :D :help: :help: :help:
Indeed!!!! or buy two tickets and come on over,you can sleep/accommodate in our house, and NO!! you don't have to fair/sand for that ImageWe can use our time better don't we? For example get drunk with the green rum, go catch some fish, smoke,fry,cook them(depending on the type of fish), change some story's (true or not doesn't matter),get drunk again, fall asleep on the porch at the sounds of the crickets, shoot some cactus and boil soup from them :P , eat the soup and keep on talking and being amazed about the texture of itImage play with the dogs and not sprain ankles well you get the drift don't you? Image

O yeah did I mention getting drunk? Image Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:11 pm
by rjezuit
Larry, I was agreeing with you. I don't think you were working well before 1937, and when I said it was new I meant it was new to your area. I don't understand what you were thinking??? I don't see where there were any smart ass comments. Rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:12 pm
by peter-curacao
We can also sit in the pool so long that we are getting cold!!!! (probably 2 AM) and then scream for Gloria and/or Dori for some Hot buttered rum and talking about the times Savannah was still a ice free place :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:19 pm
by rjezuit

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:49 pm
by Aripeka Angler
rjezuit wrote:Larry, I was agreeing with you. I don't think you were working well before 1937, and when I said it was new I meant it was new to your area. I don't understand what you were thinking??? I don't see where there were any smart ass comments. Rick

Rick, the inflammatory post you were responding to was nuked by the administrator. It was by SaltShaker01. That is why Larry responded as he did. He was away and never saw SaltShaker01's post. I give him a call and I am sure he will respond with a positive reply. Sorry for SaltShaker01's post and the trouble it caused...

Richard

I will quit here if I am wrong abut this....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:01 pm
by rjezuit
He's usually pretty good about conflicting opinions, that's why I was taken back a bit. This is usually a good and informative and friendly forum. Hope it stays that way. Rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:26 pm
by Dog Fish
peter-curacao wrote:
cape man wrote:
I guess i'm going to have to leave my own thread too.
Don't you dare! Screw it man. Let's go fishin'!!! :D :D :D :D :help: :help: :help:
Indeed!!!! or buy two tickets and come on over,you can sleep/accommodate in our house, and NO!! you don't have to fair/sand for that ImageWe can use our time better don't we? For example get drunk with the green rum, go catch some fish, smoke,fry,cook them(depending on the type of fish), change some story's (true or not doesn't matter),get drunk again, fall asleep on the porch at the sounds of the crickets, shoot some cactus and boil soup from them :P , eat the soup and keep on talking and being amazed about the texture of itImage play with the dogs and not sprain ankles well you get the drift don't you? Image

O yeah did I mention getting drunk? Image Image
Peter, that sounds like my kind of fun :wink:

Brian :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:37 pm
by peter-curacao
Dog Fish wrote:Peter, that sounds like my kind of fun :wink: Brian :)
GOOD!!!The get together point is Miami airport! have a safe flight! 8) O yeah can you SCREAM!!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ?????? Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:29 am
by SaltShaker01
Aripeka Angler wrote:
rjezuit wrote:Larry, I was agreeing with you. I don't think you were working well before 1937, and when I said it was new I meant it was new to your area. I don't understand what you were thinking??? I don't see where there were any smart ass comments. Rick

Rick, the inflammatory post you were responding to was nuked by the administrator. It was by SaltShaker01. That is why Larry responded as he did. He was away and never saw SaltShaker01's post. I give him a call and I am sure he will respond with a positive reply. Sorry for SaltShaker01's post and the trouble it caused...

Richard

I will quit here if I am wrong abut this....
My post wasn't inflammatory. I was just trying to help others by sharing my experience with the product that was being discussed. I was shot down in short order by CL as if I were lying about that product which I was not so I responded to clear the air. If that is wrong around these parts then so be it. I will leave

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:02 am
by tech_support
I deleted the post because it was not constructive in anyway, its tone was insulting not argumentative. A good debate is welcome and we like to hear everyone's experience with products, but the deleted post because of its tone and the fact it took a stab at "you plywood boat builders" :? :) I looked back through the previous pages and saw nothing that deserved that.

I hope you do not leave, we want more people with experience here, but please understand we try to maintain a more civil forum than others. There are plenty other forums for drama, this one's priority is support of boat building and repairs. When a post or thread threatens to distract from the cordial spirit of boat builders sharing with other boat builders, then I just delete the post. I have deleted more than one of my own posts after reading it. :)

How about starting a thread called Seafoam and we can all post our experiences?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:10 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry, I was agreeing with you. I don't think you were working well before 1937, and when I said it was new I meant it was new to your area. I don't understand what you were thinking??? I don't see where there were any smart ass comments. Rick
Rick, my deepest apologies :oops: There seems to have been a post on here that I missed completely, so I didn't realize that you were responding to it, instead of to me :( Again, my aplogies for misunderstandig what transpired. Please feel free to continue offering your opinions here.

Sunny 70 in Georgia, no cabin fever here :D gone fishing again.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:16 am
by SaltShaker01
shine wrote:I deleted the post because it was not constructive in anyway, its tone was insulting not argumentative. A good debate is welcome and we like to hear everyone's experience with products, but the deleted post because of its tone and the fact it took a stab at "you plywood boat builders" :? :) I looked back through the previous pages and saw nothing that deserved that.

I hope you do not leave, we want more people with experience here, but please understand we try to maintain a more civil forum than others. There are plenty other forums for drama, this one's priority is support of boat building and repairs. When a post or thread threatens to distract from the cordial spirit of boat builders sharing with other boat builders, then I just delete the post. I have deleted more than one of my own posts after reading it. :)

How about starting a thread called Seafoam and we can all post our experiences?
My apologies if anyone took a certain tone to my post. It wasn't meant to be offensive or insulting. As to my statement about "plywood boats" I said that in a good way such as in (Everyone here is great at building plywood boats). It was not meant to be insulting. I have built one of these from this site already, not to mention restoring eight production boats. I have asked a few questions about changing the tunnel design on the XF-20 that I plan to build and got somewhat straightforward answers so I respect that.
Shine. I need to get in touch with you about ordering the epoxy kit and Meranti 6566 plywood for the xf-20 and picking it up in Vero. I am wondering the difference in $ from delivery to pickup on the kit.

Thanks

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:44 pm
by rjezuit
Larry, Apology accepted. I thought it was a little out of character for you. We all get a little crotchety at times, so no harm done. Enjoy the fishing. We have a beautiful day here also. Sunny and above freezing for the first time in a while. It's a welcome change. Can't wait until I can take my boat out, but that will be a couple of months from now. Rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:09 pm
by Steven
Hey Larry,

What's the distance from the back of your console to the motorwell bulkhead?

Regards,
Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry, Apology accepted. I thought it was a little out of character for you.
Thank you Rick 8) I was too quick to jump. Gun shy maybe :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hey Larry,

What's the distance from the back of your console to the motorwell bulkhead?
Just shy of 44 inches. Still working on that leaning post? Tom drew me up a very nice compact one, but I just can't make it fit, not with the fishing we do. The cockpit is tight with 2 people fishing in it, the bow deck has plenty of room. If the cockpit had 12 more inches, it would work :? Oh well, that's why we never quit building another boat :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:38 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
Hey Larry,

What's the distance from the back of your console to the motorwell bulkhead?
Just shy of 44 inches. Still working on that leaning post? Tom drew me up a very nice compact one, but I just can't make it fit, not with the fishing we do. The cockpit is tight with 2 people fishing in it, the bow deck has plenty of room. If the cockpit had 12 more inches, it would work :? Oh well, that's why we never quit building another boat :lol:
Larry, I'm going to have about 10" more than you. Do you think the leaning post Tom drew might work for me?? Maybe I could get Tom to share it with me :D :wink: I'm a ways off, but could start on the mfg of it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:19 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:
Hey Larry,

What's the distance from the back of your console to the motorwell bulkhead?
Just shy of 44 inches. Still working on that leaning post? Tom drew me up a very nice compact one, but I just can't make it fit, not with the fishing we do. The cockpit is tight with 2 people fishing in it, the bow deck has plenty of room. If the cockpit had 12 more inches, it would work :? Oh well, that's why we never quit building another boat :lol:

Yeah, still trying to decide. The plans for the OB place the console 67" from the motorwell bulkhead, but I want to extend the front deck back to make it a bit larger. I'll probably be at 60" or close to it. I think I could put it in and have 20-24" between the back leaning post and the motorwell bulkhead. Plenty of room to move back and forth, or stand and fish. Kicking around an idea in my head for a modular one with the top half removable so the cooler underneath would become a seat. When I'm striper fishing in the local lakes and not running long distances, the lower seat would be more comfortable. When I'm trolling or making long runs off the coast, the leaning post is my preference. Maybe two boats, one with each is the solution. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:48 am
by TomW
Maybe two boats, one with each is the solution.
There you go Stephen! :wink:

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:10 am
by majorgator
When I'm striper fishing in the local lakes and not running long distances, the lower seat would be more comfortable. When I'm trolling or making long runs off the coast, the leaning post is my preference.
We're all creative here, so how about an interchangeable cooler seat & leaning post? Just sitting here typing this, I've come with 2 or 3 different designs that would work well; be nice and sturdy. I've got one thought in particular that would involve a below-deck support system so that when nothing is there, the deck would be flush. Probably take about half a day to build. Hmmmmmm :doh: :doh: Anyway, just a thought, let me know if you want me to draw up something for it. If not, no big deal. Just build your 2 boats :wink: :wink: I'm sure the Mrs. will think that's a better idea anyway 8O 8O :wink: :wink:

Sorry Larry, don't want to hijack your thread :wink:

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:32 am
by Cracker Larry
Sorry Larry, don't want to hijack your thread
All comments are welcome here Seth, as long as they are polite :wink:
Larry, I'm going to have about 10" more than you. Do you think the leaning post Tom drew might work for me??
I'll let you make that call, Larry :lol: Probably, depending on how large you and your passengers are, what kind of fishing you do, how big the fish might be....Best suggestion is to mock it up and spend some time moving around it. I'm sure Tom will share, he's sharing sort of guy 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:48 am
by Larry B
I'll let you make that call, Larry
Yes, sometimes I amaze myself asking dumb questions that only I can have a answer to :doh: I can type faster than I think :D
I'm sure Tom will share, he's sharing sort of guy
That would be great, Tom :?: :?: :?:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:40 pm
by ks8
Seth... I can relate to how you think... and I did that all over my CV16... interchangeable this and that, all very strong and quick swap. Problem is, when you add it all up, it could be a 7 year build. :lol: But I'm very glad, personally, that I've got my options now (just need to build the rest of them :lol: ).

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:54 pm
by cape man
Seth if you take as long as KS I'm coming to High Springs!! :D :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:30 pm
by majorgator
Craig - I had planned on having it ready for the meet this year, but if I don't get my butt in gear, I might miss scallop season too :cry: Joking aside, I'd like to have it on the water by June. I'm primed and ready, though, just need to get to that next step :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:18 pm
by ks8
First build... ? Haven't learned about the danger of setting dates yet... ? :) I hope you do get her launched this year Seth. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:49 pm
by majorgator
I hope you do get her launched this year Seth.
New baby coming in September, so it MUST be done well before that :lol: :lol:

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:12 am
by ks8
You just keep telling yourself that.... :lol:

In a few years, the cute little sinner will be helping you sand. Shop for a small cartridge filter respirator. Have one of the ladies give it as a gift for the baby shower. :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:24 am
by majorgator
I've got an 8 month old right now that needs to kick in high gear with the walking thing. As soon as he can get coordinated enough with that aspect of life, I'm going to set him on top of the boat and let him sand to his heart's content :wink: Or maybe I'll just put a rake in his hand and send him to the yard, whichever is least destructive :help: :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:42 am
by hwsiii
Larry, I was just going through some of your old posts and happened to notice that you lost 300 RPM when you installed the new hydrafoil. 95% of the time that means that you need to move the motor up one more hole to get your RPM and speed back up where it was. Hydrafoils allow you to move the motor up higher in the water column, when you have a good prop, because they act like larger anti vent plates, and they can slow you down and drop RPM when they are not running on TOP of the water but in it, as yours appears to be, creating extra drag.

And since I am posting this I will also post some more information that might help you, and other people as well.

People looking to improve the performance of their boats should have a better understanding of what to look for in a new prop versus their old prop. ALL boat motors should always be able to attain the minimum recommended RPM for the motor you have installed with your normal weight load, if you do not do this you can expect the motor to lose some or a lot of it's longevity, depending on how low the maximum RPM are and how bad you are Lugging the motor. When you cannot reach minimum RPM, then your motor is Lugging at ALL RPM levels, not just at WOT. Whereas, being able to attain maximum recommended WOT RPM will increase longevity and fuel efficiency as well.

1. Before you make any decisions about changing props, you need to know if your outboard motor is at the best height for maximum performance with any prop. Anytime you see water trying to come up the transom of the boat or the leg of the motor when you are running it, that is a prime example of a motor mounted too low. Your motor normally should be at least 1" above the bottom of the transom of the boat. Your prop WILL gain RPM and speed by raising the motor higher, unless it starts ventilating. On inboard outboard boats you cannot change the height of the out drive unless you have an old OMC stringer drive, so the following does not apply. Normally the anti ventilation plate should be at least 1” and preferably 2" or higher above the bottom of the boat for the best speeds and the least drag created by the motor. And if you change from an aluminum 3 blade prop to a 4 blade or SS prop you need to raise the motor one more notch again to see if you can gain more RPM and speed, because these props tend to hold the water better and thus can be raised higher in the water column.

Motor Transom Height

Image

When the boat is running in the top 20% of your speed you should be able to see the anti ventilation plate very clearly at the top of the water and have water just splashing over the top of it.

Correct Anti Ventilation Height

Image

2. Then you need to know how much prop slip you have in order to determine if you are using the wrong prop pitch and/or blade geometry for your boat and motor combination. Just getting your motor to turn the correct RPM at WOT does NOT mean your boat is running efficiently and you are attaining good fuel efficiency and maximum speed from your motor. If your Prop Slip is over 15%, excluding heavy cruisers, when using a GPS, then you should consider changing to a prop with a different blade geometry than the prop you now have, to improve your performance, speed and fuel efficiency at all RPM.

Prop Slip

Image

Checking the amount of prop slip you have, will give you a very good indication of how well the prop you are running is at converting Theoretical speed to Actual speed. Every time your prop slip is higher than 15% you should definitely consider changing prop design, but you need to make sure your speed numbers are correct, and that means using a GPS for speed and running the speed tests in 180 degree opposite directions to account for any wind or running water that influences the test results, add the two numbers together and divide by two for Actual speed results.

Image

3. An easy and inexpensive change for performance, if you are experiencing high prop slip, is to go to a 4 blade prop with more blade surface area. The things that need to be taken into account are how much difference there is in the blade geometry and how many RPM you will lose having the 4th blade versus the three blades. As a normal course of events if you have an aluminum 3 blade prop on your boat you can expect about a 200 to 300 drop in RPM, changing pitch for pitch, if you buy a Solas Amita aluminum 4 blade prop and they run about $ 120, here at Iboats. Solas aluminum props are also made with the newer squeeze casting pressure process, which makes for enhanced mechanical properties because of the fine grain structure caused by rapid solidification of the prop and the high pressures used for the process, as well as the blades can be made thinner and stronger because of this. This particular prop is known as a stern lifter and you would normally expect to lose about 1 MPH at WOT depending on how muh prop slip you have, but if your prop slip is about 20% or higher you might even gain 1 or 2 MPH.

But, If you are running a stainless steel prop and still having high Prop Slip problems, then you would want to consult with an experienced prop man or a prop shop that will let you exchange props, as normally stainless props have much better blade geometry and don't have as high a Prop Slip as aluminum props do. But you can't just change Stainless props pitch for pitch the same way you can't just change all aluminum props pitch for pitch, because of blade geometry differences between models of props, even from the same manufacturers, you have to have the knowledge to know the difference between what you have and what you need.

Solas Squeeze Casting

Image

4 Blade props can also have thinner blades as each one of them only has to carry ¼ of the HP per blade whereas 3 blade props have to carry 1/3 of the HP on each blade, with a 300 HP motor a 4 blade prop only has 75 HP on each blade and a 3 blade prop has to handle 100 HP on each blade. Theoretically this means the blades on a 4 blade prop can be cast 25% thinner than a comparable 3 blade propeller.

Most people with outboard or inboard/outboard motors use aluminum propellers to propel their boat. Most people also believe that aluminum props also flex a lot while running, and thus lose pitch and forward speed when propelling a boat at cruising speeds and above, versus a stainless steel prop, and that is because of the aluminum flexing.

The actual difference between most aluminum props and stainless props has nothing to do with flexing of the aluminum propeller, for speeds up to and above 45 MPH, that is why aluminum props are much thicker than stainless steel props. The differences are in the actual time and money spent in the blade geometry of the two props, as well as the cost in materials and that is why stainless props cost much more than aluminum props. There is a lot more engineering designed into stainless props, partly because aluminum can't be cast with the tolerances required for the blade geometry design and partly because the stainless props can be designed much thinner, which also helps lower prop drag.

Heavy progressive parabolic rake, flat rake, zero rake, progressive pitch, trailing edge cup or blade tip cup, more or less blade surface area and thinner blade sections are the things that can reduce prop slip and raise the boat for less wetted surface area, and thus increase speed when used in the right combinations for a particular hull form design and motor combination.

Picking a very good prop for your particular boat and motor combination requires knowledge, but it is not an exact science. I use mathematical software and physics to get very close to what prop fits best in Pitch and Diameter for a certain boat and motor combination, but then is where the knowledge of prop geometry starts and experience is required to pick a better prop that will conform better to your uses and needs.

Aluminum props are very economical and can produce very good results for most boats, but for the maximum performance from your boat normally you would buy a stainless prop, although you will probably have to test a few of them to get the BEST one for your boat and uses if you are looking for Maximum speed.


H

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:34 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry, I was just going through some of your old posts and happened to notice that you lost 300 RPM when you installed the new hydrafoil. 95% of the time that means that you need to move the motor up one more hole to get your RPM and speed back up where it was. Hydrafoils allow you to move the motor up higher in the water column, when you have a good prop, because they act like larger anti vent plates, and they can slow you down and drop RPM when they are not running on TOP of the water but in it, as yours appears to be, creating extra drag.
Thanks for dropping in, H. That's a great write up on props, can't believe you did that at 4am :lol: I agree, I need to move the motor up to the last hole now, even though I'm 2" above the bottom. I've changed the plugs, tuned her all up, and I'm still down about 300 rpm and 3 mph. She's topping out about 34 mph and 5600 RPM. Two reasons I haven't messed with it, I never run the boat over 30 mph anyway, which I get at about 5,000, but I usually run her about 26-28 mph. That's where she's happiest and the fuel efficiency is great, so I haven't really worried about it. But like you say, I know the motor is lugging a little and the efficiency would be better yet if I got the RPMs back up.

The biggest reason I haven't moved it up is a steering cable issue. The motor well side is considerably lower than the tube on the engine and the steering cable is already in somewhat of a bind. To raise it more I need to re-route the cable to emerge from the top of the seat, rather than the side of the well, or it will have too much of a bind. I intend to do this at some point, just haven't got to it yet. It's on my list :wink:

Thanks again for all your help and input, don't be a stranger. Your prop info will be a big help to a lot of people, as it has been for me 8)

LarryB, make a note on that steering cable :wink: If I were doing it again I'd route it out the seat top like Craig did, not the motor well side. It's too low for a straight run to the engine.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:47 am
by Larry B
[quote="Cracker Larry
LarryB, make a note on that steering cable :wink: If I were doing it again I'd route it out the seat top like Craig did, not the motor well side. It's too low for a straight run to the engine.[/quote]

Thanks Much CL,
You know after ready H's post and Your reply I've got a concern :doh: I believe you made your transom higher than the normal 20"?? I made mine exactly 20". Am I going to have a problem getting my motor high enough to run effectively? I hope I'll be ok, as I don't want to invest in a jack plate.
Also CL, I believe there are two steering options, One is the steering actually hooks up to the motor, and the other hooks to the motor well (as I believe yours does) would you suggest that one is the better way to go on the OD???

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:28 am
by Cracker Larry
Mine connects only to the motor, not the motor well side. That's the only way to go.
I believe you made your transom higher than the normal 20"?? I made mine exactly 20". Am I going to have a problem getting my motor high enough to run effectively?
Mine is exactly 21 1/4" measured top to bottom, including the metal mounting plate. This puts the vertical measurement right at 20", due to the 17 degree angle :lol: . If you have any doubts, when you place the drilling jig on the transom top, block it up 1 inch. You have enough height, it's just a matter of raising the bolt hole locations.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:58 am
by Joe H
Very good write up on props hwsiii, and some of my now old thoughts explained away, I printed it out for future reference when installing my new engine on the P19.
Even an old dog like me can learn a thing or two when it's explained in a logical manner.

Thanks for this thread Larry.

Joe H

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:58 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Mine connects only to the motor, not the motor well side. That's the only way to go.

Mine is exactly 21 1/4" measured top to bottom, including the metal mounting plate. This puts the vertical measurement right at 20", due to the 17 degree angle :lol: . If you have any doubts, when you place the drilling jig on the transom top, block it up 1 inch. You have enough height, it's just a matter of raising the bolt hole locations.
Ok, so yours is 1 1/4" higher than mine. Or really 1" without the metal mounting plate. But mine is cut to plan :doh: I've already drilled the holes. In your humble opinion do you think I'll have any problem getting my motor high enough to be effective?? In my humble opinion I should be ok because I'm sure others made the transom to plans :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
In your humble opinion do you think I'll have any problem getting my motor high enough to be effective??
No, not at all. IMHO you worry too much :lol: We're only talking about an inch, and I'm splitting gnats hairs now getting mine tuned to perfection. You will still have plenty of room for adjustment, and you probably aren't as picky as I am in how a boat feels :lol: I've had a lot of experience with flat bottom boats and know they like the engines high, so I always add an inch or so to the transom, because they always end up being high anyway. My motor right now is 1 1/2" above the top of the transom, so I could have made the transom 22 1/2 and it would have been even better. Higher is always better for keeping the water where it belongs :wink:

Here's a couple of pics showing my engine mount and the steering cable bind. Any more binding than this and I'd have a problem. Even at this, it will cause premature cable failure at that bend. I really need to fix that :doh: Who started this conversation anyway? My problem is, every time the weather is nice enough to work on the boat, I go fishing instead :roll: Which is what I'm going to do in just a little while 8)

Image

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:35 pm
by cape man
Larry,

I have introduced my children to the fun and challenges of boat building, including using forums like this to help them along. Please cover your Wang in future pictures.
IMHO you worry too much
:lol: :lol: :lol: Don't we all though...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: Sorry. At least my pole wasn't exposed :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:32 pm
by Larry B
thanks Larry that helps me alot. In looking at the picture of your motor, I would have aprox. the same height as yours if I was in the bottom hole? Yea, I probably won't even know any difference with my boating experience.
Please cover your Wang in future pictures.
Craig, that was funny right there :lol: :lol: :lol:
At least my pole wasn't exposed
Thanks for that small favor, that would be way too much information 8O 8O :wink: :oops: :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:01 pm
by TomW
H glad to see you back also I so agree with everything you say glad you had time to put it down on paper. I just got done explaining on a simpler basis to one of the other guys and CL referred him to your post the same thing. Will keep this one book marked.

Great job! :D How are you coming on the other thing we were talking about.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:19 pm
by hwsiii
Larry, I see what you mean, I had the exact same problem the last time I changed props and had to move the motor up again. I had to cut a new hole farther away from the motor to take the load off the cable, and I had to move the cable up 2" higher on the side.

Larry I also have an idea for another prop for your boat when you decide to go out in rough water, like you eperienced on that long vacation with the boat when y'all broke a couple of parts, the prop you have now is not really designed for that. For that kind of weather you have to have a prop that has more blade area and will produce more thrust and lower planing speeds, so you can go slower and have extra prop thrust to stay on the back of a wave in following seas or to climb one coming at you.

Tom, I finished it about three months ago, and I have so many spreadsheets and 19 charts, that I had to make a new workbook to put the charts in beause it would not let me add any new Fonts, now all I have to do is have someone write the entire program in C+, so it will be a standalone application and I can ensure it is copy protected. I have inluded Crouch's formula some of Gerr's formulas and some of Savitsky's, as well as many of my own new formulas that I designed to fine tune the results and show things like Effective prop pitch and comparisons of acceleration and prop curves for individual props as well as HP, torque and thrust required for any particular prop without having to have a power curve for the motor that it is attached to. So, in the next few months I will have it finished, finally.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry I also have an idea for another prop for your boat when you decide to go out in rough water, like you eperienced on that long vacation with the boat when y'all broke a couple of parts, the prop you have now is not really designed for that. For that kind of weather you have to have a prop that has more blade area and will produce more thrust and lower planing speeds, so you can go slower and have extra prop thrust to stay on the back of a wave in following seas or to climb one coming at you.
Hmmm :? I usually don't decide to go out in rough weather :wink: Sometimes find myself coming home in it though. This prop doesn't have any problem staying on the back of a wave or climbing over one, even real big ones. None at all, it has plenty of thrust and the engine has more than enough power. I think those parts would have still broke, no matter which prop. We usually try to stay out of that anyway, but if we get caught out when the weather goes bad, I can't picture me getting in the water and changing the prop when the seas go from 3 to 12 :help: Better I try to avoid that, than to buy a prop for it, I think :lol: I know what you're saying, but I don't think I need one. Not for this boat.

Another thing the Stingray foil did was reduce the minimum planing speed. It will hold a plane at about 14.5 - 15 mph now, without it was about 17-18.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:59 pm
by Dog Fish
Image


I see what your saying on yours Larry, to much bend . Fish - fix boat - fish - fix boat. :)
A small 6" sq box with a slanted top put on top in back of the hatch at the time of build might work good, it would allow the cable to come in straight like you have only higher. Just typing out loud. :roll:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Fish - fix boat - fish - fix boat.
Fish :lol: If the boat was broke, I'd fix it now, but it ain't broke, it just ain't ideal. If I was building it again, I think I'd make the motor well bulkhead even with the sheer, and raise those quarter seats up flush with the sheer and side decks. That would give it plenty of height and make for larger bait well and storage locker. It would be easier to build ,too.

In the meantime, I just got 2 halogen lights to mount on the T-top, for your night time tarpon fishing trip :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:08 pm
by Dog Fish
Let there be light, that will be great, make life lots easier.

What you just said you would do if you had to do it over, would be perfect, all for the good.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:15 am
by Steven
Hey Larry,

Did you use an AntiSiphon valve on your fuel tank? What size fuel line did you go with? 3/8"

Regards,
Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:23 am
by Cracker Larry
No anti-siphon valve, you don't need it and they cause problems. Put a cut off valve at the top of the tank. Yes to 3/8 fuel line, that is the standard size for most tanks and most engines.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:23 am
by cape man
A set of spreader lights on the back of that T top will be sweet. I can light up the deck with the rope lights, but you can't see in the water. I'll be using a head lamp :cry: :cry:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:48 am
by Cracker Larry
Let there be light,
Let there be light 8)
A set of spreader lights on the back of that T top will be sweet.
I was thinkin' front and back :wink: We do a lot of fishing off the front too.

Image

If we should get a 200 pound tarpon dancing around the boat in the middle of the night, I want to see it :lol:

Image

We've been needing a good set of deck lights :D
I can light up the deck with the rope lights,
I'm going to bring ya a fox tail to go with those. This is going to light up a 50 yard perimeter. :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:49 am
by cape man
I'm going to bring ya a fox tail to go with those.
Remember...grey... :wink:

Put a siren on, and with that hailer and lights you can play being the Man! 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:13 am
by Cracker Larry
She's already got a siren, built into the hailer :lol: It's a loud scoundrel too 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:40 pm
by cape man
Put a siren on,
...it was very early...meant a flashing blue light... :roll: :roll:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
That would be against the law 8O I do have a strobe though :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:56 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:That would be against the law 8O I do have a strobe though :lol:
No, that flashing blue light "makes you the law" :wink: :lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
Until you run across the law :help: I don't need troubles like that.

This siren will sure stop a boat in it's tracks, they go real slow past my fishing drops :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Got the deck lights all wired in, and made a little switch panel for them. All working nicely :D Also installed a 3 way power outlet strip inside the electronics box while I had it opened up. This is for spotlight, cell phone charger, or whatever that works with a cig lighter plug. I tucked it way up inside the box to keep it out of the weather, probably still won't last long :? We'll see.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:25 pm
by Lucky_Louis
Sweet looking install CL, very pro looking. I agree with you on the doubtful longevity of the 12v outlet. Bloody salt always finds a way in. Oh well, they're cheap and you've made them easy to replace. Nice set up.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Bloody salt always finds a way in. Oh well, they're cheap and you've made them easy to replace. Nice set up.
Thanks. Yeah, salt will get in there for sure, even though it's out of the weather it's just a matter of time before it's dead. Probably a short time. But what the heck. The fixture only cost $15, and it's easy to replace :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:22 pm
by fishin'
I wouldn't be so sure about that cig lighter dying, I've had one in the dash of my flats boat for 12 years and it's still going strong. No protection at all, just the plastic cap that plugs into it. Sweet lookin' install Larry.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:40 pm
by TomW
Very nice Larry! 8) Can't wait to see all the additions since last year.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:41 pm
by Dog Fish
Good deal Larry, nice, I think you got her Tarpon ready. I tell ya what, there ain't many more things you can put on that boat besides maybe another Wang. That boat is really rigged to the hilt. Shes a fishing weapon. 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:42 pm
by Cracker Larry
there ain't many more things you can put on that boat besides maybe another Wang. That boat is really rigged to the hilt. Shes a fishing weapon
Joel is hooking me up with another stake out stick, so that is covered 8) The only other thing on my wish list is a short range radar, and Mrs. Cracker wants some music. I'd rather listen to the marsh than to music when I'm fishing, but I'd rather listen to music than Mrs. Cracke when she ain't happy, or the occasional yank client who talks too much, so I guess we'll get a stereo/ IPod thingy too :roll: Rock and roll :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:54 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote: but I'd rather listen to music than Mrs. Cracke when she ain't happy, or the occasional yank client who talks too much, so I guess we'll get a stereo/ IPod thingy too :roll: Rock and roll :lol:
Larry, satelite radio is good. I hate paying the monthly fee, but seems not much is free nowadays. I've got it in my FL14 and when I take the wife I don't get to listen to what I want, but it's a lot better than the alternative :wink: And I can turn the radio on or off when I'm alone :wink: It's a portable unit so when I get my OD finished I can move it there if I want to :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:10 am
by Larry B
Larry, I don't think you have one of these on your boat?? I think you should get one.

http://www.transcat.com/Catalog/product ... m=FLIRB400 Might be able to find one on sale.

High-Sensitivity Thermal Imaging Camera with Thermal Fusion

Transcat Order#: FLIRB400
Model: FLIR Systems FLIRB400
Mfg Part#: FLIRB400

Our Price: $19,950.00 USD





Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:17 am
by Cracker Larry
Our Price: $19,950.00 USD
8O I think I better stick with Radar :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:19 pm
by macs
Hey CL,

That Bat Boat looks alot like that one you found adrift a while back. You haven't turned Pirate on us have you? 8O

Macs :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's because it is :wink: You didn't read the fine print :lol: I knew someone would remember it.

Yall probably don't remember, but I found this same boat last labor day week, when Dori and were coming home from Cape Fear. It was floating down the Savannah River, had a fresh cup of worms on the bow, fishing rods and cold beer in the cockpit, and no people aboard.

We feared the owner had drowned, didn't look good, so we anchored the boat and went hunting for him, found him a couple miles up river, barefooted, in shorts, no shirt, and being ate by mosquitoes, and surrounded by gators and snakes 8O He'd got out to take a leak, didn't tie it off, and lost his boat :? Current is strong in the river. We picked him up, glad it wasn't his body :D and took him back down to his boat. We've been friends ever since, he only lives a mile from me. Good fellow, even crazier than I am 8)

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:37 am
by Oceola
[quote="macs"]Hey CL,

That Bat Boat looks alot like that one you found adrift a while back. You haven't turned Pirate on us have you? 8O

Macs :)[/quote]

Had me worried too Larry...I saw the picture of the boat in your boat building shed and got a scare...thought maybe you'd gone over to the "Dark Side".

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:56 pm
by Vman777
Larry, see you been busy with a lot of upgrades to your boat :D

David

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Good to hear from you David. Hope all is well with you. I don't think I've ever had a boat that I could call finished, there is always something else you can do to improve it :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:23 pm
by Larry B
Larry, quick question? When installing your hatchs did you drill and refill the holes or just use 5200?
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:37 am
by Cracker Larry
All of them are drilled, filled and re-drilled. and sealed with 5200.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:54 am
by michaelwpayton
Cracker Larry wrote:I don't think I've ever had a boat that I could call finished, there is always something else you can do to improve it :D
Yep... always something...

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:27 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:All of them are drilled, filled and re-drilled. and sealed with 5200.
Lets see? at least 12 screws per hatch and more for the larger hatchs, about 12 hatches, probably close to 200 screws :help: I'm gonna be a screwin fool :D

Larry, did you put cleats under where the screws go? or just screw to the 3/8" into the filled hole?? I'll have 1/2" at the stern and 3/8" at the casting deck. I know i"m gettin anal again, just can't help it :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:15 am
by Dog Fish
i"m gettin anal again
'"Oh - No................ not again"


I wouldn't put cleats in Larry B, If I could buy hatches with no screw holes in them at all I would. Some 5200 and done, where they guna go.

Brian

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:52 am
by Larry B
Dog Fish wrote:

I wouldn't put cleats in Larry B, If I could buy hatches with no screw holes in them at all I would. Some 5200 and done, where they guna go.

Brian
Not worried about them goin anywhere. Was thinkin to stiffen up the deck around them, but they are so close to the other cleats where the deck is glued, I'm thinkin I dont' need em. :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:48 pm
by Dog Fish
. Was thinkin to stiffen up the deck around them
I got ya their Larry, I didn't even think about that, but like you say your so close to the other cleats, that you don't need the hatch back up cleats. Maybe some one could just hold it for ya. 8O :)
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:54 pm
by TomW
:lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:18 pm
by Vman777
Cracker Larry wrote:Good to hear from you David. Hope all is well with you. I don't think I've ever had a boat that I could call finished, there is always something else you can do to improve it :D
Thanks Larry, been doing ok I guess, could be better, thanks for asking :)

David

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Lets see? at least 12 screws per hatch and more for the larger hatchs, about 12 hatches, probably close to 200 screws :help: I'm gonna be a screwin fool :D
Dat's right. And 200 holes to drill and fill. I didn't do the re-drilling until after the painting was finished.
Larry, did you put cleats under where the screws go? or just screw to the 3/8" into the filled hole?? I'll have 1/2" at the stern and 3/8" at the casting deck. I know i"m gettin anal again, just can't help it :wink:
No cleats under the hatches on mine, there is no span more than a few inches and it's solid as a rock. My rear seats are 1/2, the console and front deck are 3/8. I'm with Brian, if you could buy the hatches without screw holes, I'd just use 5200, but I feel obligated to fill all holes with something :lol: Why in heck does a 9X13 hatch need 10 screws to hold it flat :doh:

Re:

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:21 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote: Image

Image


Image
Larry, just curious. Do you have Chafing problems with the straps the way they are positioned on the boat?? That top strap looks like it would chaf just tighting it down :doh:
I'm getting closer to building my trailer and I'm thinking about making it at least a foot longer, whats your thoughts on that????
btw, I've decided on making it out of Aluminum I-beam with galvanized torsion axles, stainless steel fasteners, and aluminum wheels :D :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:57 am
by macs
CL, hope you don't mind me jumping in here.

Hey Larry B,

My trailer is the same way. The boat hangs over the back a little. I plan on extending just the outside frame rails back about a few inches with a tab and hole to attach the tiedowns to. I had a 22' deck boat that had this design. It worked great. No need to extend the whole trailer frame.

I wanted to make sure I had the boat located correctly on the trailer (for tongue weight) before I installed the extensions.

Just my thoughts.

Macs :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:03 am
by macs
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:26 am
by Larry B
Macs I see what your saying, but I'm starting from scratch so all I have to do is extend the trailer rails a foot and put my cross member at any location I need it.
Macs, you said you tie your boat the same as CL, does your boat chaf where the straps are? That is why I wanted to make my trailer a bit longer and then just use the stearn eyes to tie it straight down without touching the boat, Just my opinion

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:32 am
by Cracker Larry
Do you have Chafing problems with the straps the way they are positioned on the boat?? That top strap looks like it would chaf just tighting it down :doh:
No chaffing at all. How else would you position the hold down straps? The stern straps barely touch the boat. I only use the big cross strap on long trips, but it doesn't chaff.
I'm getting closer to building my trailer and I'm thinking about making it at least a foot longer, whats your thoughts on that????
I don't know, mine is a perfect fit. The transom rests directly on the trailer bunks with an inch to spare.

My trailer is the same way. The boat hangs over the back a little.
Mine doesn't hang off the trailer.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:05 am
by macs
Sorry CL,I guess i used the wrong words. Mine doesn't hang off the trailer either. The bunks actually stick out maybe an inch from the transom.

Image

But as you can see, the original tabs on this trailer are forward of the transom. extending them will allow for no rubbing of the tiedown straps when attached to the transom eyes.

Larry B,

I haven't installed the transom eyes on her yet. several reasons. I wanted to get the boat in the right spot for tongue weight before I extended the trailer frames and the boat ramp is about 400 yards from my house. I haven't needed tie downs but once and that was to put fuel in her. I used a gunwale strap like CL shows. I used some towels to protect the wood work. There's no doubt that a nylon strap will leave its mark on stained wood coated in varnish. Just my 2 cents

Macs :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:31 pm
by Larry B
thanks CL and Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
There's no doubt that a nylon strap will leave its mark on stained wood coated in varnish. Just my 2 cents
Probably so, but it sure hasn't damaged the S3 paint or Kiwi Grip. I do try to keep sand off the strap.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:00 pm
by cape man
Run a single twist in a flat strap before tightening and it will stop the vibrations at highway speed, one of the main causes for any chafing at the gunwales.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:13 pm
by Larry B
cape man wrote:Run a single twist in a flat strap before tightening and it will stop the vibrations at highway speed, one of the main causes for any chafing at the gunwales.
Thats a big 10-4, I have did my fair share of trucking :wink: Funny you still see a lot of truckers with there load straped down and no twist and the strap just a flappin in the breeze :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Run a single twist in a flat strap before tightening and it will stop the vibrations at highway speed, one of the main causes for any chafing at the gunwales.
Yes. More so it prevents chaffing of the strap 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
We've completed a few more little projects. After some pondering and false starts, I built 2 rod holders for carrying fly rods, that can also carry conventional rods. Conventional rod holders don't work with fly rods. I used 1 1/2 schedule 40 PVC for the holders, and end caps drilled out and slotted to fabricate locking collars. All the mounts I made from 1" starboard, it's fantastic for this sort of stuff. Easy to work, strong, looks pretty good, best of all a friend gave me a stack of it 8) I can make brackets for the rest of my life. I also used starboard to fabricate brackets for the deck lights project.

These are most of the components

Image

We mounted a vertical holder on the forward bulkhead, we've needed a rod holder at the extreme bow anyway. With the Wang Stick deployed, we fish from the bow a lot more. This will hold the fly rod plus any conventional rod. I found that the locking collar wasn't necessary when used vertically.

Image

I made a horizontal holder to mount under the T-top railing. This holds the rod completely out of the way, and very secure. It has a butt section with a slot for the reel seat, and a locking collar. Pipe to pipe mounts are from starboard.

Image

And it has a small bracket to support the rod tip, also from starboard. Lined with felt for cushioning.

Image

Rod in holder, out of the way but easy to access 8)

Image

There ya go Andrew, nothing to those fancy $60 fly rod holders but some PVC, starboard and a hole saw :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:45 pm
by Dog Fish
Nice job Larry, looks great..........but do you think you could put another fly rod holder at the bow for my fly rod :?: :P Just kidding ya. Another Cracker job well done :!:

Did you get my email, I am not sure it went through.
Brian :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:38 pm
by macs
That's cool stuff CL 8)

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:54 pm
by Lower
Awsome Larry! Those came out great. Nice having a rod holder up front like that.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:35 pm
by TomW
Great job Larry as usual! 8)

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:49 pm
by Boater45
Very smart idea Larry. Looks great!! Where did you get your T-Tops BTW?

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:04 pm
by NW Trout
Cracker Larry wrote: ....and a locking collar...
Image
that locking collar is spot on! Excellent thinking on display right there.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the comments yall. It's really simple and VERY LITTLE sanding required :lol: It takes me longer to formulate a plan than it does to actually build something like this, That and destroying a few feet of pipe and a couple of end caps while practicing :lol: . I've got plenty of starboard, if anybody needs a mounting bracket made, just let me know the sizes and I'll cut it out for you, or I can send a small piece of the material. Still learning how to machine it cleanly, so far I think a router works best.
Where did you get your T-Tops BTW?
I got it from one of my best Florida Cracker friends and fishing buddy Cape Man Craig :D who I didn't know from Adam until I met him on this forum and drove down to pick up the top :wink: The friendships made on this forum are worth the entry fee :D I'm almost certain it came off a Carolina Skiff.

.
but do you think you could put another fly rod holder at the bow for my fly rod
Sure, but not sure you and I can both fit on the bow and cast these things, without getting a body piercing :doh: I think I will make another, just for visual balance.
Did you get my email, I am not sure it went through.
Brian
No email from you Brian, got one from Tom and one from Spokaloo, so it must be operator error :lol: Try LTeuton at aol dot com

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:21 pm
by gstanfield
You definately need two so you can have two rods ready to go rigged with different flies so you can quickly change to another if they aren't biting what you're casting out there :D

Looks good as usual pard.

George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks George.
You definately need two so you can have two rods ready to go rigged with different flies so you can quickly change to another if they aren't biting what you're casting out there
Most people would think that 14 rod holders would be enough for an 18' boat :doh: But no, let's make it 15 :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:16 pm
by SmokyMountain
There ya go Andrew, nothing to those fancy $60 fly rod holders but some PVC, starboard and a hole saw
Larry,

Those look great!! I'll have to copy your design if they're not patented 8O . I knew you would come up with something. I had made something similar for my other boat, but like you locking collars.

Andrew

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Andrew, I've got the jigs and technicalities figured out now, and would be glad to make you a set for your new boat. I assume you want a bulkhead mount? How many rods do you want it to hold? I can knock it out for you while most people are lost watching "Lost" :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:36 pm
by gstanfield
Oohhh, I did not realise that you already had 14 rod holders. In that case I guess you need to make 4 more as you need at least one per foot of boat :D Then you need to buy or build a full set of matching rods to fill them with :wink:

George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:06 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry, your fly rod realty looks sweet in the over head shot in the T-top, it kinda glows.

The email I sent ya was just a little politics :roll: :P , fishing report and my cell #, I will resend a shorter version. :lol: I am out of political wind though. :)


Brian :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:51 am
by chicagoross
You're still doing nice work, Larry; this rod holders look sweet, clean and functional. I thought this boat was done a year or two ago? :doh: :D Guess they're never "really" done...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:26 am
by Cracker Larry
I thought this boat was done a year or two ago? :doh: :D Guess they're never "really" done...
I reckon it will be done about the same time I am :lol: Still got a few more things in mind :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:28 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
I reckon it will be done about the same time I am :lol: Still got a few more things in mind :wink:
For you or the boat :wink:
I've got plenty of starboard, if anybody needs a mounting bracket made, just let me know the sizes and I'll cut it out for you, or I can send a small piece of the material
Larry, would teak work good for the mounting brackets? I'd like to come up with something for some rod holders on the side of my console? But as I look at it, going to have to do something different as I'll have hatchs there :doh: Anyway, ya got me thinkin and btw, the ones you made look great.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:55 am
by Cracker Larry
For you or the boat :wink:
Both :wink:
Larry, would teak work good for the mounting brackets?
Sure, it would work fine. I built this set for my GF16 and used 3/4 marine ply for the brackets. The ply is epoxy coated, primed and painted, so it's virtually maintenance free.

Image

The biggest problem with teak is keeping it looking good. You need to give it a light sanding, cleaning, bleaching and oiling every couple of months. See the teak trim in this photo...it's been a few months, looks like crap.

Image

Now look at it in this picture...

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I think it would be real hard to maintain teak brackets, because you can't get to them very easily.

I sure need to work on my teak before Boca Grande next month :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:47 am
by gstanfield
Pardon my ignorance, but could you not epoxy coat the teak and then spray some automotive clear coat on it so that it keeps it's shine and looks good without all the maint, or is it too oily to coat??

Thanks,
George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:23 pm
by icelikkilinc
I wouldnt use anything else but oil if it is quality teak...

if you are concerned about protecting then use different kinds of hardwood with quality marine polyurathane varnishing..
that is the main reason I didnt use teak(other than the ridiciluos price) on my TW28.. with oil its great looking.. without, it makes the boat look old..

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
with oil its great looking.. without, it makes the boat look old..
Thanks for pointing that out :roll: On the upside, the teak will never rot and needs no maintenance at all. It will eventually turn silver/gray and stay that way forever, but you either have to be satisfied with the gray, or do a lot of work to keep it looking "new" :lol:

She's a good old boat though :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:37 pm
by TomW
Larry you might want to give Cetol from Interlux a try. It's supposed to last a lot longer than plain oil. http://www.yachtpaint.com/USA/hotlinks/ ... _guide.pdf There are two pages the second page gives the product details.

That is if you want the "good old boat" to look new! :lol:

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:10 am
by SmokyMountain
Andrew, I've got the jigs and technicalities figured out now, and would be glad to make you a set for your new boat. I assume you want a bulkhead mount? How many rods do you want it to hold? I can knock it out for you while most people are lost watching "Lost"
Thanks Larry, :D

I'm thinking three or maybe four verticle mounts on the one side of the center console. (not sure if there will be room for four)The other side I will used for convential rods. I really appreciate that... you'll have some more clousers at the meet.

Andrew

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:05 am
by Cracker Larry
OK Andrew, decision time, 3 or 4? I can get 4 rod holders comfortably onto a 14" W mounting bracket, or 3 holders on a 12" wide bracket. Your choice, all I've got left to do is make the mounting brackets. I made these this evening while I was cooking a pot roast :lol:

Image
you'll have some more clousers at the meet.
Cool 8) Can you tie Deceivers too?

I'll start a new thread under Anything Else on how I built these, if anyone is interested?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:47 am
by gstanfield
Definately intersted in your rod holders, although I'm pretty sure I can see how they were made just from the pics. as usual your pics are worth more than words :D

George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:23 am
by SmokyMountain
OK Andrew, decision time, 3 or 4? I can get 4 rod holders comfortably onto a 14" W mounting bracket, or 3 holders on a 12"
I'll take 4. What color deceivers would you like?

Andrew

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:40 am
by tech_support
pretty slick flyrod holder 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:12 pm
by cape man
Andrew,

Chartreuse and white. No rod holders but I'll trade home brews!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:09 pm
by majorgator
Larry - I have that same knife!!! I'm currently on my 3rd Kershaw (broke the tip on the first one, stupid me, left the second one my tailgate, stupid me, 3rd one is black and safely in my pocket at all time during non-use :wink: ). Anyway, great knives!!!

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Oh, and the rod-holders aren't too shabby either :lol: :lol:

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Love my Kershaws, This is my third, I broke the tip on one too :lol: It really isn't a very good screwdriver. I've got the next size up from this one too, but usually carry this smaller one. If my pants are on, a kershaw is with me. And a spare in the truck :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:12 pm
by Fonda@kauai
You have good taste in knives Larry 8) My little friend here goes everywhere with me:
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:21 pm
by jaydillyo@yahoo.com
Can't let you guys have all the fun! Here's my daily carry knife. Needs a cleaning though...
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:44 am
by jaydillyo@yahoo.com
I wouldn't normally post something like this here, but since we were all gushing about our Kershaw knives, here is a pretty good deal on one ($20):

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... 114519974a

I ordered 2, one for myself and one for a co-worker. They just came in today and it turns out this particular knife is manufactured in the USA! Great deal!

-- jaydillyo

P.S. Sorry for hijacking your thread Larry. This probably belongs in another forum category, but this is where the knife discussion was...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
No sweat JD 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:23 pm
by Larry B
Larry, did you ever get a screen to put on your overflow in your bait well? Seems I remember you talking about it and was just wondering what you ended up using?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, a long time ago. Got to have a screen.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:15 pm
by Larry B
Thanks, that is exactly what I was planning to use. Just wanted to check to see it there was something better :wink:
While I got ya here :D this is my first bait tank so bear with me. I know my drain will go to the bottom, but what is the telling factor of where to put your overflow :doh: I notice you could have gone higher? Maybe to keep the sloshing down a bit??
Also I wasn't going to foam the bottom, as it already has 6" of foam after the 1/2" sole. Just wondering why you put foam on the bottom?? Dont' want to do it and find out I needed it :doh:
Apoligize again for all the questions, and really appreciate the time you take to answer them for me :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:40 pm
by cape man
That type of screen works real well if you don't have a lot of crap in the water from the cast net or the fish themselves. We fish a lot with small herring here in Tampa Bay and the west coast of Florida, and I have found those screens will clog like crazy with scales and other crap that comes in with the fish, especially when catching them off the flats. I had to use a screw driver to open up the mesh in several places, to get it to work, and even them it would clog after a while. I'll try and get a picture of mine, but it is plastic, has larger openings and much more surface area. Just my $0.02.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Cape Man is right, it does clog pretty easy with fish scales and grass, and it is too small for the 500 gallon pump. It could certainly be improved on, but it works. I kept a well full of shrimp, pinfish and pilchards alive for 3 days and 2 nights at Boca Grande last year, just have to clean the strainer once in a while. When it clogs, the tank overflows into and out of the motor well, so it's no big deal either. It's kept a many a bait alive during day trips, never had a problem with it or lost any bait. So I'll label it as usually adequate, with room for improvement. :lol: I've really had it on my list of things to do, but it works well enough that it stays low down on the list.
but what is the telling factor of where to put your overflow :doh: I notice you could have gone higher? Maybe to keep the sloshing down a bit??
Yes, any higher and it will slosh and beat the baits against the top of the tank, or slop them out when the lid is open.
Just wondering why you put foam on the bottom
Well, I feel like I had a reason, but I be dang if I can't remember what it was :doh: If it, or any another plausible story comes to mind, I'll let you know :lol:
Apoligize again for all the questions, and really appreciate the time you take to answer them for me
My pleasure. No apologies necessary.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:56 pm
by Larry B
Larry and Craig, what do you think of this one?
http://www.marinesurplusinc.com/servlet ... low/Detail

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Naw, it's too small and the holes are too big for shrimp. I mostly use my tank for shrimp. Something more like this would be better. 1 1/2 fitting, big strainer...

Image

or this..

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:18 pm
by Larry B
Ok, couldn't find that kodiak part by itself but found this one at livebaitlarry.com (I like his name :D )

http://www.livebaitlarry.com/index.php? ... ovd3t7sv22

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:26 pm
by TomW
That will work fine Larry. I was looking at that one for my baitwell.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:30 pm
by Larry B
TomW wrote:That will work fine Larry. I was looking at that one for my baitwell.

Tom
Tom, I'm going to hijack Larrys thread for a minute.
I found a great price on pumps and accessories today. Ordered my bait pump, sump pump, sea cock and other misc. stuff. They have already shipped and shipping price was good too.
heres the link, let me know what you think?
http://www.imarineinc.com/

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Image

There ya go, that's what I'm talking about 8) You could make one from a tupperware bowl with lid, and a hole punch. One day I'm going to drill mine out and install a larger one, maybe.

In the meantime, my next project is adding a second battery. Just got the battery today and ordered the switch and wire from http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%20E ... ck=5449621 . I've bought most of my electrical components from them, they have great quality, good prices, good service. In Boca Grande my pump will be running day and night for 5 days, and the halogen lights pull 10 amps. I want to make dang sure the boat will crank, without me pulling on the rope :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:01 pm
by Dog Fish
without me pulling on the rope
That could pull a old guys shoulder out of socket. :)

Brian :roll:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:43 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
You could make one from a tupperware bowl with lid, and a hole punch. One day I'm going to drill mine out and install a larger one, maybe.

In the meantime, my next project is adding a second battery. Just got the battery today and ordered the switch and wire from http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%20E ... ck=5449621 . I've bought most of my electrical components from them, they have great quality, good prices, good service. In Boca Grande my pump will be running day and night for 5 days, and the halogen lights pull 10 amps. I want to make dang sure the boat will crank, without me pulling on the rope :help:
For 5 bucks I'm not going to mess with a tupperware lid :roll: I'll leave that for Craig :lol: :lol:

Larry, I thought you already had a switch for two batteries?? Are you putting them both in the stern locker? Heck splurge and get ya two of them Optima batteries??,

I'm putting two under the console :D (probably not optima :wink: )

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:33 am
by TomW
Larry thanks I have a similar place RiverMarine same prices a little more selection. http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/ at least on the pumps.

Cr. Larry got to distinquish you two. Where did you get your Blue Sea helm switch/fuse panels from? Can find the Contura type but not yours.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:51 am
by Cracker Larry
Where did you get your Blue Sea helm switch/fuse panels from? Can find the Contura type but not yours.
I got mine locally from Boaters World before they went out of business. a quick web search turns up quite a few vendors. This is mine, I think they call these switches Contura style :doh:

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Here is one source http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_s ... ge645.html
Larry, I thought you already had a switch for two batteries?? Are you putting them both in the stern locker?
Yeah, I do have a switch for 2 batteries, which would be fine if I put the new battery in the stern. But I've got enough weight back there already, so I've decided to mount this one under the console with it's own switch. When on, it will parallel the existing battery, or I can use them independently. The original battery will be dedicated to the engine, and the new one will be dedicated to the house circuits. This way I can runs the bait tank and lights all night, and still crank the engine in the morning.

It's not an Optima, it's a Walmart Marine dual purpose :lol: Identical to the other one. You don't want to mix different sizes or types of batteries in a parallel bank.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:57 am
by Larry B
Larry, I'd be interested in what your using for a battery tray? I haven't decided on one yet :doh: I was thinking about two separate tray's one for each battery, that way I can put one on each side under the console?? I know you had problems with the one you used in the stern when you was in rough water, so that is why I'm interested. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:28 am
by Cracker Larry
I'll use a standard marine battery box. They come with a cheap strap and even cheaper (chickenshit) plastic hold down brackets. The plastic brackets are what broke on the other one, so we'll just throw these in the trash right now. In fact, I had to dig them out of the trash to take the pic :lol:

Image

I'll glass down some 1X2s around the base of the box to keep it from sliding, then mount a couple of eye bolts or U bolts on each side, and secure it with a ratchet strap.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:26 pm
by Dog Fish
I always put anti slide blocks like you say Larry and I put 4 screws with fender washers in the bottom of the battery box and line the bottom with 1/4" neoprene from a old wet suit I had.
For straps I used Moeller above deck tank strapes.

I think Joel sells these hold down kits in the site store, very inexpensive, but strong.
Image


Brian

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:45 am
by Cracker Larry
Got a little work done towards the new battery install. The cables and switch I had ordered Thursday from http://genuinedealz.com/ showed up on Sat. morning. These folks do a good job. They will custom make your cables and install the terminal ends for $1 each, and considering I don't have a big crimp tool for #4 cable, that's a genuine deal for sure :!: And 2 day service!

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Cut 4 chocks out of some YP 1X2 and shaped them up a bit, then gave them 2 coats of epoxy. Fit the battery box in it's new home under the console seat and marked the chock locations. Ignore the mildew, it's been a long wet winter and it's time for me to scrub these out with some bleach, before the builders meet I hope :help: I hate nasty! Anyway the battery is going here..

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Then we have to do some sanding on the sole, for the glue to stick. This locker is finished with tinted epoxy so we don't have to worry about sanding paint and primer off :D Sanded it down with some 80 grit, then cleaned it up with water, then alcohol

Image

On the 2 long chocks I drilled a 5/8 hole to accept the hold-down eye bolts. They are SS bolts, 1/4X1. I installed a washer and nut on the bottom of each bolt. The chocks get another coat of epoxy, and the drilled holes get a couple coats. Then glue them down with thickened epoxy, and set the bolts in thickened epoxy.

Image

I'm using fast hardener in 85 degree weather, so each step goes pretty fast. Once the glue set up, we gave the chocks 2 more coats of tinted epoxy. That's 5 coats in all, that should do it. The new epoxy sure makes the rest of the locker look shabby :? Going to have to do something about that.

Image

I think we can call this part finished. Today I'll install the switch and wire it up. Right after I put some new rabbit fencing around the garden :?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:12 pm
by Larry B
Larry, did you put that in the front locker in the console? Just wondering why not directly under the console? Mine are going directly under the console, going to be a bitch to get them in and out, but don't plan on removing them too often

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:40 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Hey Cracker, I like the battery box modifications. The production boat guys could take a few lessons from you on making improvements as soon as new ideas come forth :) BTW, be watching for a box on a brown truck....

Richard

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
BTW, be watching for a box on a brown truck....

Richard
The brown truck came just a little while ago Richard, thanks 8) Now we've have dual navigation again, and I don't have a useless hole in my electronics box anymore :D

And we now have dual batteries, all the power we'll ever need :D
Larry, did you put that in the front locker in the console?
Yep
Just wondering why not directly under the console?
First off it won't fit :lol:

Image

Not a chance...

Image

And neither will I :lol: Even if it did, I'd have to lay on one side, pretzeled around the console for 2 days, with only one arm in the hole, and sand and drill and vacuum and clean and epoxy and glue and wire, on something that I can't see and can't reach, while I'm laying on my belly? Not. That space is small, it houses chase tubes, spare props, spare line and fenders. Nothing that I have to work on. The front locker is a cavern, it could hold 8 of these batteries and is much more user friendly :wink:
Mine are going directly under the console, going to be a bitch to get them in and out, but don't plan on removing them too often
Exactly, it's going to be a bitch to install them, service them, replace them, tighten a loose connection, even check for a loose connection. Batteries need maintenance, it won't get done if you can't get to them. At least put a big hatch on the aft side of the console if you're putting them in there, and make sure the hatch will open with the leaning post behind it.

I got it finished up today. Strange day for weather again :doh: After 2 days of rain, it started clear and very windy, and I started replacing fencing, then it got cloudy and very windy, then thunder, lightening, rain and windy, then it cleared up again and got even windier, blowing 40-50 now, chilly too. Power keeps going out. Working in spurts we finished it up.

Image

Image

Now I can run everything on either battery while isolating the other, or run everything on both batteries together. Perfect, been needing this, just for peace of mind 8) Now I can get an inverter, a blender, maybe an icemaker :lol: and make frozen daiquiris :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:02 pm
by Larry B
[quote="Cracker Larry
Mine are going directly under the console, going to be a bitch to get them in and out, but don't plan on removing them too often
Exactly, it's going to be a bitch to install them, service them, replace them, tighten a loose connection, even check for a loose connection. Batteries need maintenance, it won't get done if you can't get to them. At least put a big hatch on the aft side of the console if you're putting them in there, and make sure the hatch will open with the leaning post behind it.
[/quote]

Larry, understand about the maintence. My console isn't as big as yours, but It will have 3 hatchs in it. One on each side 17x13 and I'm mounting them vertical 17 high and 13 wide so the battery box will fit. I'll slide one in each side. Then another hatch above the console locker that I can reach down to do the wiring :doh: I'll mock it up first to see if it will work. I'll also put enough cable so I can pull the battery out to do maintence on it. My console doesnt have a shelf in it like yours does. Anyway I hope it works.
btw, your new battery looks nice. Should hold it down

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:24 pm
by jbridges
Hey Larry, your boat turned out awesome ! I fell behind you about ten months but I'm back in it again. I like what you did with the KG and I plan on doing the same. My question to you is do you think if I don't paint under the KG like you did do you think it will cover the gray primer so I don't end up with an off colored white ? Thanks

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Good to hear from you again! Welcome back and thanks for the comments. I don't guess a boat is ever finished :lol: We'll be doing a jack plate install in the next week or so, if I get my other projects caught up.
My question to you is do you think if I don't paint under the KG like you did do you think it will cover the gray primer so I don't end up with an off colored white ? Thanks
Yes, it will cover the primer just fine. It's really thick, the colors wont bleed through it 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:33 pm
by Murry
That's a nice looking battery box install Larry and I don't think that one will break on you.

Daniel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:26 pm
by Larry B
Larry, I've looked and have found lots of buss bars, but I like the one you used and was wondering if you remembered where you got it? I can't find one like?
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:02 pm
by Cracker Larry

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:15 pm
by Larry B
Thanks Much :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
My pleasure :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:08 am
by Cracker Larry
deleted, duplicate

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:29 am
by Cracker Larry
With a little help from my friends, the jack plate install is complete :D Testing and adjusting planned for later today.

This photo is bad, sorry, taken by my cell phone in the rain and almost dark. Friend in background is owner of the recently repaired Bat Boat, friend in foreground is owner of a new bar for his game room. They bought the jack plate for me and installed it too 8) I just supervised :lol:

Image

Image

Image

Image

This is a very well made piece of machinery, I'm really pleased with it :D Not sure yet if it will improve performance, but it sure looks cool :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:37 am
by Murry
It looks cool indeed. You guys in Georgia really take care of each other. :lol:

Hope she performs well for you Larry.

Daniel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:26 am
by Larry B
C Larry, I see you mounted it on the jack plate in the top hole? Is this typical or per instructions? Just curious. Also if you don't mind a couple more pictures with one of the cables coming out the locker. Does look cool and I'll be ordering one soon. Looking forward to more updates.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
You guys in Georgia really take care of each other. :lol:
Yes sir, believe it 8) After this, they pressure washed my house :wink: In the swamp we all take care of each other. Everybody gets more than they give. We share the work, share the gardens and livestock, catches and kills, cleaning and canning, share the responsibilities, whatever it is we count on each other. These people will pay your bills if you're sick, tend your garden and fix your truck, build a barn or cut a fire break. Whatever. Nobody asks for help, nobody asks for pay, people just show up to help. Between us all there isn't much we can't get done :D 911 is an hour away, just the way we like it. Not that anyone out here would ever call 911 anyway except for a medical problem, that's happened once in 20 years and it was a gunshot. Accidental :lol:

I see you mounted it on the jack plate in the top hole? Is this typical or per instructions?
There really wasn't much for instructions, but using the top holes, lowest position of the engine, gives the most engine support. There is the maximum engine to plate contact that way. The range of adjustment of the plate is wide enough, about 6", to lift the engine a lot higher than it needs to be, so any raising can be accomplished by adjusting the jack plate and not the engine 8)
Also if you don't mind a couple more pictures with one of the cables coming out the locker.
I've got this picture handy, it ain't great. Will take another one later from a better angle. The afternoon thunderstorms have set in again, right on time :D May be over by dark, maybe not.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:18 pm
by majorgator
In the swamp we all take care of each other. Everybody gets more than they give. We share the work, share the gardens and livestock, catches and kills, cleaning and canning, share the responsibilities, whatever it is we count on each other. These people will pay your bills if you're sick, tend your garden and fix your truck, build a barn or cut a fire break. Whatever. Nobody asks for help, people just show up to help. Between us all there isn't much we can't get done :D 911 is an hour away, just the way we like it.
...the way it should be :!:
I hope the jack plate works out and helps with performance. Good choice with the black color. Have fun in the Keys!

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:20 pm
by Larry B
[quote="Cracker Larry]

Image[/quote]
Looks like you decided not to come out the top :doh: Or did I miss something???

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, ya did 8) http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 6&start=10
The jack plate is installed and working great. This is a fine piece of engineering and production here :D Everything lines up perfectly. Made in America, sold by Bateau 8)

Image

I didn't even have to re-route the steering cable. Moving the engine back and up relieved the bind it had, instead of making it worse :D

Image

BTW, does anyone need a cable boot :?:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:54 pm
by Larry B
Man, sometimes hard to keep up with you guys. About that boot :doh: :doh: If I can come out the side I'd like to, will that boot work for me either way?? Maybe I can take it off your hands???

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:57 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, the boot will work either way, send me your address and it's yours 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:18 am
by Larry B
E-mail Sent :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:29 am
by Cracker Larry
Got it. It will be heading your way this week :wink: Surprise, AZ 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
Boot is in the mail Larry. I had a spare cable grommet I thought you could use, and threw it in there too.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:19 pm
by Larry B
Really appreciate the help C Larry. And I haven't forgot the (I believe Rum) that I will give to you some day. Got to look up the name of it, but I'll get it? Sailor Jerry's :doh: No don't think that was it??? I'll keep thinking here. :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:43 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Flor De Cana :?:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:06 pm
by Larry B
Aripeka Angler wrote:Flor De Cana :?:
No thats not it either?? I've got it on the tip of my tongue, it will come to me :doh: 151 :doh: no don't think so??? Bacardi Silver?? Nope not it either?? Rhum Barbancourt White :doh: Nope not it either??? Tommy Bahama White Sand?? Don't sound right?? Whaler's Dark?? don't sound right?? Heck maybe it wasn't even RUM :doh: It'll come to me :D :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:25 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Whaler's Dark??
Maker's Mark :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:27 pm
by Larry B
knob creek bourbon

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Flor De Cana :?:
That's the rum :wink:
knob creek bourbon
That'll work :D
Maker's Mark :doh:
That'll work too :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:27 pm
by cape man
Treat him right. 23 yr old Ron Zacapa. Guatemalan. The best. I've tried them all.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Treat him right. 23 yr old Ron Zacapa. Guatemalan. The best.
That'll work too :D Isn't that what we had at your house, just before the moonshine?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:21 pm
by Larry B
C Larry, guess I'll have to wait till I see ya in person. They won't let me ship booze to Georgia :doh: Something about the Crackers down there :wink: :lol: :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:26 pm
by Bowmovement
Larry B wrote:C Larry, guess I'll have to wait till I see ya in person. They won't let me ship booze to Georgia :doh: Something about the Crackers down there :wink: :lol: :wink:
Just dont tell them whats in there :D

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:39 pm
by macs
Ever tried any "Blanton's"?, it's pretty smooth. :wink:

Also another "old family" bourbon that was brough back a few years back is "Bullet Bourbon". comes in an old style bottle with a cork. It's good stuff.

Macs :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:00 pm
by cape man
That'll work too Isn't that what we had at your house, just before the moonshine?
Nope that was Havana Club 15 yr. A nice dark Cuban rum. Ron Zacapa is almost like a rum liqueur its so smooth.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:46 am
by Cracker Larry
C Larry, guess I'll have to wait till I see ya in person. They won't let me ship booze to Georgia :doh: Something about the Crackers down there :wink: :lol: :wink:
Who won't let you :doh: Tom shipped me some really good rum,

Image

and Peter ships me all kinds of colored drinks.
Nope that was Havana Club 15 yr. A nice dark Cuban rum
Oh, then I guess I haven't tried any Ron Zacapa, yet :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:38 am
by Larry B
Maybe, it was just one site. Or maybe I have to order it and have it shipped to AZ (were allowed to have this stuff along with Guns) and then ship it to Georigia (where maybe there now allowed to have it :doh: ) Anyway I'll look into it more :wink: :lol: :D :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:42 pm
by TomW
Larry just go to the booze store and buy it, no one ships to GA. Pack it up well and send it. Declare it as boat parts at the UPS terminal. :wink: I sent his rum to celebrate his finishing No Excuse in a heavy box with bubble wrap and newspaper. Peter got creative and used the poured foam after wrapping the bottles in plastic wrap several times. :lol:

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's right. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands, break a few rules :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:47 pm
by TomW
Whose breaking rules your just shipping necessary boat parts! :lol: Several glasses worth! :lol: :lol:

Hey CL put up a pic of your swim platform. Since I'm goinig with the Jack plate I need a good idea. I sort of want one I can remove when I am not using it.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:52 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:That's right. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands, break a few rules :lol:
:D :D :D :D :D OK, I'll break somes rules, I don't follow rules well anyway. Or directions most times :doh: Just ask my wife :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'll break some rules, I don't follow rules well anyway.
Me either :lol: Ask anyone who knows me, I take my freedom seriously :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hey CL put up a pic of your swim platform.
It's not finished yet Tom. I think I'm going to settle for a $50 Bass Pro Shop ladder, for now. My friend Raymond at Martin Marine is fabricating a really slick unit for us. He won't charge me anything, but I hate to cut into his busy season. He told me yesterday to bring the boat by and he'd have it ready by Friday, but I know he'd be putting aside paying jobs to get it done, and it ain't that important. I can climb in the boat without a ladder, although the Medusa needs a boost :lol:
I sort of want one I can remove when I am not using it.
Me too. We're going to use the big Taco outrigger bases as a mounting point, so it will be easily removable. It will be a side mount, not transom.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:57 pm
by TomW
Me too. We're going to use the big Taco outrigger bases as a mounting point, so it will be easily removable. It will be a side mount, not transom.
Sounds good. I have the 3 step ladder from our favorite place Great Lakes Skipper. I'm still working on ideas on how to mount it when it is needed and remove it when it's not.

Again have a great time down in Keys they are my favorite place in the US, next to the Mississippi islands and your boat can get to the shallow areas where I really enjoy them.

Safe trip and red skys at night

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:12 pm
by Larry B
I found a 40 dollar 2 step ladder on ebay that I'm putting on the Starboard side stern. Was hard to find one narrow enough and short enough. it telescopes and is out of the way, except if I decide to put a Wang on :doh: But don't think I need a Wang :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
With an aluminum ladder you could incorporate the stake out stick bracket into the ladder mount with a little creative cutting and welding, or better yet, you could incorporate it into the jack plate. I've seen power poles mounted on jack plates. That's going to be next on my list after the ladder is finished, making the stake out bracket part of the jack plate. If you can cut and weld aluminum it should be no problem at all, and I know someone real good at it who will work for fishing trips :D He does powder coating too 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:03 pm
by Larry B
C Larry, does it weld to the jack plate? or bolt on? Wouldn't want to compromise the jack plate by welding to it :doh: But this sounds like something I might be able to use. I also have someone to do my welding and mfg. Have to drive to Calif. but its all good. Post pics when you get them, or a drawing if you have it???

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:43 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Boot is in the mail Larry. I had a spare cable grommet I thought you could use, and threw it in there too.
Received them today, That was fast. Hope your not out of booze, I won't get it to you that fast :wink: Thanks again

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:42 am
by Cracker Larry
Hope your not out of booze,
Surely you jest :lol:

My pleasure 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:58 am
by cape man
Got a message on my cell this morning from the Cracker...

Cay Sal Banks Bahamas
Image

The last three days have been flat calm so they ran from Cudjoe Key in Florida to the edge of Cay Sal Banks (~ 50-60 miles), and fished along the drop just before entering Bahamian waters (getting in and out of customs is a bitch there both ways). Reports of lots of schooly dolphin and a sail brought up to the boat. The OD is proving herself yet again! I warn everyone, he's going to be hard to deal with after this trip...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:14 pm
by Larry B
I warn everyone, he's going to be hard to deal with after this trip...
YA THINK :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:00 pm
by gstanfield
Noooo, not the Larry I know :wink: I'm happy to hear that the weather and water seems to be cooperating with them and hope they have the time of their lives. I can't wait for some of the pics and stories when he gets back :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:55 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I got a different picture, but they were fishing in the same area. That is some pretty blue water 8)

Image

How many times have you seen a pic of an OD-18 in 1000 feet of water :?:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:02 pm
by gstanfield
It's the same area all right, I recognize the waves from one picture to the other :D The only thing that distresses me is that there have been two pics so far and neither of them included a fish :?

Have fun out there CL, come home with fond memories, no regrets, and good stories.

George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:44 am
by keysrat
cape man wrote:Got a message on my cell this morning from the Cracker...

Cay Sal Banks Bahamas
Image

The last three days have been flat calm so they ran from Cudjoe Key in Florida to the edge of Cay Sal Banks (~ 50-60 miles), and fished along the drop just before entering Bahamian waters (getting in and out of customs is a bitch there both ways).
There is no way to clear customs anywhere near Cay Sal- there is nothing there. It is just a bunch of rocks, one of which has remains of an ancient lighthouse. Frequently patrolled by USCG with Bahamian officials onboard.
Bottom fishing there is awesome.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:06 am
by cape man
There is no way to clear customs anywhere near Cay Sal- there is nothing there. It is just a bunch of rocks, one of which has remains of an ancient lighthouse. Frequently patrolled by USCG with Bahamian officials onboard.
You are right and that's what I meant. I have heard of people getting stopped in there and getting back out, but it was an absolute nightmare. Found tis online...
The Cay Sal Bank is situated about 60nm SE of the Florida Keys, between Andros Island Bahamas, and Cuba. It is part of the Bahamas but there are no facilities nor Bahamian officials there at all, and it is too far away to be patrolled by the Bahamian Royal Defense Force. It is patrolled by USCG Cutters looking for drug and Cuban smuggling operations. Many fisherman from the Keys make this a day trip, though it’s at least an overnight stay for slower cruisers. This is the most remote area of the Bahamas, with more Blue Holes than any other place in the world. It consists of almost 100 small Islands spread out over an area about 40 nautical miles across, but over 140 nautical miles in circumference. Please take note that you FIRST have to check in with Bahamian customs and immigration, and there are NONE in the Cay Sal Bank. Closest are Bimini and Andros, so it's not practical (legally) to go directly from the Keys to the bank. Many fishing boats do, but it is illegal and you could lose your boat. You should write to Bahamian officials to encourage them to develop some mail-in permit system where you can pay a fee and get back a short term permit by mail, and then just go directly to the bank. In the interim your best bet might be to hook up with one of the commercial diving groups out of S. Florida that take you via liveaboard boat and check in along the way. However, if you've been in the Bahamas cruising for a while, it might be a good spot before you leave, and you could go straight on up to the Keys.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:47 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I got another cell phone fishing report from the Cracker. He was calling to confirm the bag and size limit for YT snaps 8) He was fishing just off the American Shoal lighthouse. He said he is having a bunch of fun down there :wink: Sorry, no pics...

Edit, he just texted me a pic.....

Image

If you have never eaten one, you don't know what you are missing :wink: They taste wonderful. Thanks for the pic if you have internet there :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:09 pm
by majorgator
If you have never eaten one, you don't know what you are missing
Agreed! There's not many fish I'd take over a mid-size yellowtail.

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:42 pm
by chicagoross
Hope they remembered the wasabi! :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:02 pm
by Aripeka Angler
chicagoross wrote:Hope they remembered the wasabi! :D

Great point Ross! Larry just called and told me he caught some tuna yesterday and he and Dori made some sushi :) He said he didn't have internet there to post pics. I will save all of the details he told me of the trip because I am not much of a writer. He did mention something about not being able to outrun a massive thunderstorm in an OD-18 :help: I don't understand but he said to tell Tom :doh:

They are heading back home in the morning. It's a two day drive from the Keys to his house in Georgia. Based on his texts and a couple of phone calls, he should have some great pictures and stories to share :)

Richard

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:34 pm
by TomW
I do! :wink: :lol:

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:29 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Image

Another text from Larry 8) Home is about 20 miles past the developing storm in the pic. He said the no feedback steering works pretty good when you let go of the steering wheel due to lightning :help:

Edit... I figured out what Larry was talking about....
A 30' Morgan can easily make a 30 mile trip before the storm gets there.
Storms like the one developing in the pic can move at 40 plus mph not to mention the 60 plus mph winds. Weather can be very different in some areas but you are not gonna outrun this kind of Florida storm in a sailboat :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:50 am
by TomW
Exactly they seem to form much faster down there than they do in the Mid-west or even here in the Mountains! And you sure can't out run it when the storm is between you and home! :lol: Whole different set of circumstances in the way storms form and the time it takes them to form in the two locations.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:08 am
by Cracker Larry
Nothing but a thing, little storm like that :lol: Been running thru them for 7 days in a row now, every afternoon, if you want to get home before dark, ya got to run through that squall line. And running that channel after dark was scarier than the squalls! Lots of lightning, lot of wind, lot of rain, an hour or so of excitement to end each beautiful day. Ya always got to pay your dues. If you aren't willing to accept that, better stay home :wink: You won't out run these squalls unless you can run 100 kts, and you might have to run to Cuba. The first day out last week we were about 20 miles offshore and watched one form over Andros Island, 80 miles away. Watched it build and head our way, and we started running in. It caught us before we went 10 miles, blasted us with 70 kt winds for about 30 minutes, and moved on to scare the bejeezus out of someone else :lol: But mostly we've had flat calm seas and almost no wind. The Gulf Stream 50 miles offshore has been as calm as Waldens Pond.

We're back in the civilized world of Internet now, Daytona Beach tonight, home tomorrow. Put another 40 hours and 500 miles on the OD18 in the last 9 days, and she performed perfectly :D We've been to the Bahama Bank, caught a ton of fish, snappers, groupers, dolphin, tuna, sailfish, barracuda, mackerel and various other things, some I didn't even recognize :doh: We've got a 50 quart cooler packed with yellowtail snaps, dolphin and grouper fillets, might even be a few lobsters left in there too :D Just had a big meal of baby back ribs, first thing we've eaten besides seafood since we left home.

Our camera died on our second day down here while we were diving on Looe Cay, taking underwater pics when it quit. No display at all :? Hope I can retrieve the pics from it. Since then it's been cell phone pics only :( The Looe Cay National Marine sanctuary is incredible. Some of the best reefs and ocean life to be seen in the USA, and some of the best in the world. I haven't been many places better anywhere in the world. Amazing :!: I sure hope the oil doesn't get here, but the local projections are for mid August :cry:

Thanks to Derrick for hooking us up with a great place to stay in a perfect location 8) And to Richard and Craig for helping me stay in touch and posting some pics, and to Richard for looking up size and catch limits for us on the spur of the moments :lol:
Hope they remembered the wasabi!
Oh yes, and the soy sauce. Fantastic :!:
The only thing that distresses me is that there have been two pics so far and neither of them included a fish :?
George asks for pics, I'll see what I can get off my camera, and I've emailed myself 50 from my cell phone which will mostly be crap, but I'll work on them. If all goes well, I'll show you some fish :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:38 am
by Larry B
Thanks for the update and post CL, glad ya'll had a great time and made it back safe each day.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:56 am
by chicagoross
Glad you're back safe, and glad you had a great trip! We used to finish a day's fishing in the Sea of Cortez with the day's yellowtail sashimi, soy sauce and wasabi. If your catching those, it's worth keeping the fixin's on the boat :D . Yum! Maybe follow up with a bucket of scallops or clams... :D

All the catch in Mexico goes to Japan for sashimi, also, but they don't get it fresh like we did!

The cell phone pics are actually pretty good, kind of neat being able to stay in touch with jealous friends around the world by cellphone, we couldn't do that a few years back - when we were out, we were gone! :D Welcome back, Larry!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:25 am
by TomW
Glad you had a great time and are homeward bound! Sounds like you have a bunch of fish to eat. Take it easy the rest of the way and we'll look forward to the pics as you have time. That's a bummer about the camera it was a good one.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:27 am
by Cracker Larry
Thank ya CR 8) Yes, today's technology is amazing. We were about 10 miles offshore, bottom fishing the outer reef in 100' of water and loading the boat with yellowtail snapper and strawberry grouper. Not sure of the size or possession limits, I called Richard who looked them up on his Iphone for us, then I sent him some real time pics, and he had them posted here before we were back to shore. That's cool 8) Good friends are cool too :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:58 am
by cape man
Too cool. Glad you had a good time. I remember when there were lots of places like Looe Key.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:56 am
by gstanfield
Wow, sounds like you guys had a wonderful time and I'm happy to see you're back on the way home safely. I hope your trip finishes in like fashion and look foward to whatever pics you can scrounge up. :D

George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Home safe, finally :D Rained all the way today. Dang that's a long ride pulling a boat. Almost 700 miles and 13 hours, one way :help:

Will work on some pics later. The camera seems to be toast and I can't get the pics off it. Going to Walmart tomorrow and try to find a card reader that will read the memory card. Until then, cell phone only :(

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:15 pm
by majorgator
Sounds like a great time was had by you and the misses. Based upon my trips to the Keys, the hardest part is the ride home, and I know you probably felt the same way. Though, I'm sure its nice to be home. Can't wait to see some pics...hope you can salvage the card.

Seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, we had a great time :D It was hard to leave, but good to get home. Missed my dog too. A day in a truck wears me out worse than a day on the water. Got a few pics off the cell phone to share. They don't do justice to anything, but better than nothing.

This is our home base on Cudjoe Key. The little canal runs to Cudjoe Bay and then a twisty channel out to Hawk Channel. It's only 30 minutes to the outer reef. Great spot, has it's own store, marina, fuel, bait, boat ramp and even a pressure washer to clean the boat and trailer. Nice modular waterfront homes with dockage, for less money than a motel room 8) And oh yeah :idea: These canals are full of jumbo lobster :!:

Image

KS had asked for pics of clear water, here are a few. This is on American Shoals, on the outer reef. We caught some good bottom fish just off this reef in 100' of water. It falls from 10' to 100 feet in about a 50' distance. Great diving and fishing, the water is so clear you can see bottom in 100 feet and visability is over 100' when diving 8) You have to cross about 10 miles of open water to get out here. Very open water, but it's worth the trip :wink: It's south of Looe Key reef and doesn't get the crowds, but it's almost as nice. And you can fish, and spearfish here.

Image

I've got a lot of underwater photos too, I hope! But not on the cell phone.

Image

At the Looe Key sanctuary you can't anchor, you have to use provided mooring buoys which are great. No fishing allowed here. Again you have to cross about 8 miles of very open water to get out here. The first 2 days it was too rough, blowing 25. We tried it twice and were forced to turn around. But after that, we had 6 flat calm days, flat enough anyway.

Image

It is fantastic, but it gets a lot of tourist boats.

Image

Dori likes it because she says it gives the sharks and cuda someone besides her to eat. And there are some full grown sharks on this reef 8O

Image

Time to get wet :lol:

Image

Time to wet the thirst.

Image

Little thunderstorms pop up and dissipate all day in all directions, not much to them and easy to avoid.

Image

Later in the day they stack up wall to wall along the shore, providing some excitement, if you didn't get enough swimming with sharks. Sometimes you can thread your way between them

Image

And sometimes not..

Image

One thing for certain, you won't out run them :wink: I'm real glad I grounded the T-top and wheel with heavy cable :!:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:01 am
by ks8
The cell phone camera did a fine job. Thanks. Looking forward to seeing that sort of clear water myself. Not sure where it will be yet... :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:13 am
by Cracker Larry
Once you run through the storms and make it back home, this is how it looks where you came from :lol:

Image

One day midweek it was flat calm and we decided to run long for big fish. Ran out to 600' and put out the baits, trolled out to an area called the Ups and Downs, a series of fingers like sea mounts. Not much life out here, but we raised 3 sails, hooked one and lost it at the boat after a 30 minute fight. Saw a blue marlin free jumping, it was a sight! Caught a small tuna about 20 pounds and a couple of dolphin.

Image

The sea was so calm it was eerie :help: . The sky and the water were the same color, and each reflecting the other. Started thinking Bermuda Triangle stuff :?

Image

From there we picked up and ran another hour out to the Cay Sal Banks, just because we could. Trolled some out there, caught several jumbo cudas, not much else.

Image

Left before we got arrested. Picked up and ran about 60 miles towards home in 2 1/2 hours

Image

Found thousands of school dolphin in 200-300 feet of water, and we had a ball with them every day...we caught all we wanted and brought home a cooler full :D They weren't big, 5-10 pounds, but a blast on light spinning rods. What they lacked in size, they made up for in numbers. Look close in the water and you can see more than the one's hooked.

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That's all for now...no wait, you've got to see a Key Deer. These little guys are all over the lower keys, mostly around Big Pine. They'll eat out of your hand, but you're not supposed to feed them. Very cool.

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:29 am
by macs
What a great trip! I'm sure that's one you'll never forget. Glad ya'll are back safe. cool photos too.

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:31 am
by colonialc19
Sounds like a great time Larry 8) , and the pics are cool too 8) , even if they are from the cell phone.
Thanks for sharing

edit: hope the card reader works out, would love to see those underwater pics

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:44 pm
by mecreature
Im glad I checked in to the site. I always enjoy your adventures Larry. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:19 pm
by Dougster
What a trip Larry, and those cell phone pics are pretty darn good. That far out is way past my skill level, but it sure looks like fun. I'd love those little dolphin on spinning gear. I haven't fished much since I sold my boat ten years ago, but that'll change one day. BTW, 13 hours towing a boat would wear me out too!

Hopes to see the Keys some day Dougster

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:28 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Ahhh, some day ! Nice Larry 8) Thanks.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:23 pm
by Murry
Nice indeed!

Thanks for shareing your trip Larry. You sure do take some great ones. :D

Daniel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for all the comments. A good boat is a magic carpet, it can take you places 8) Start with a set of plans, a stack of plywood, and here you are, where ever you want to be ....

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Was able to retrieve the photos from the broken camera :D Unfortunately the camera broke early in the week, but we got a couple days and a dive trip anyway. I'll be adding a few more pics so check back :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:36 am
by TomW
She sure looks good there with the dive flag up! 8)

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:39 am
by Bowmovement
Cracker Larry wrote:Thanks for all the comments yall :D A good boat is a magic carpet, it can take you places 8) Start with a set of plans, a stack of plywood, and here you are, where ever you want to be ....

Image

Was able to retrieve the photos from the broken camera :D Unfortunately the camera broke early in the week, but we got a couple days and a dive trip anyway. I'll be adding a few more pics so check back :D

Thats a postcard or calendar shot right there :!: :!:

Nuff said
Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:48 am
by flatpicker
Great pictures CL! Sounds like ya'll had a big time. Thanks for sharing. 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:48 am
by Larry B
Thanks for the pictures, they are great. Got one question and not trying to be negative, just wondering if that stress crack came back? Sure makes me want to get mine in the water, but I'm not going to hurry it. Glad ya'll had a great and safe trip.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:55 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks, more pics will follow when I get some time.

Yes, the stress cracks came back within a month of repairing them. I had Jacques look at it in Boca Grande, and he tells me it's just cosmetic and the easiest thing to do is live with it. Says I worry too much. They are no deeper than the surface, unsightly but not a structural problem. A design error on my part :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:20 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Thanks, more pics will follow when I get some time.

Yes, the stress cracks came back within a month of repairing them. I had Jacques look at it in Boca Grande, and he tells me it's just cosmetic and the easiest thing to do is live with it. Says I worry too much. They are no deeper than the surface, unsightly but not a structural problem. A design error on my part :oops:
And because of that I did mine different :D And thank you much for the help. Hey, I've got some great models to help me so I have an advantage :D Now I'll probably have some mishaps that maybe I can help a future builder. Remember I put my tank below sole :wink: Really don't think I'll have a problem but until it's put to the test I'll never know.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:07 pm
by Murry
I'm with Matt on that picture Larry. If that doesn't get you excited, there's not much hope for you. What a picture. :D

I think the post card should have two pictures on it, the other picture being a stack of plywood with the boat plans resting neatly on top of the stack. 8)

Looking forward to your trip updates,
Daniel

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Daniel, Matt, FP, George, Tom, Dougster, Larry, everyone :D If yall enjoy them, I don't mind sharing.

I'm blessed to be married to a woman who likes boats almost as much as I do, 36 years today BTW :D She could have chosen to do anything on vacation she wanted, and this is what she wanted to do. Works for me :lol:

She is multi-tasking, on our first afternoon, getting our bearings and learning the channels..

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Can you tell she is miserable?

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I mentioned that on our first trip out to the reef, we had to turn around because of rough head seas. We could run into them, but it wasn't fun, or comfortable, and very wet...

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After bashing about halfway across Hawk Channel, straight into the wind, she reminds me I promised to build a bigger boat :lol: We turn around and run easy with a following sea...

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Then we met our first afternoon thunderstorm, and met it head on. Nowhere to run except open ocean, and it was too rough to run there, so we just pushed through it and prepaid some dues :lol: ...

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:19 pm
by wegcagle
Nice pictures. Looks like she's not only a pretty face, but a good bar tender too :lol: Happy Anniversary, the way you two travel and vacation I'm sure you'll be celebrating number 72 on a boat as well :D 8) Of course on that anniversary you will be on the TW34....right? :wink:

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:24 pm
by gstanfield
Very nice pics, and congrats on making it so long together. I think JM should finish the plans for the TW34 as an anniversary present to you :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
After getting rained and blown out, we headed for Key West to do a little people watching. Every species of humanity is represented in Key West 8O It's not as bad (or as good) as it used to be, but still entertaining. Good food, good music, good drinks. We enjoyed Capt. Tony's the best. It was raining in Key West too, off and on...

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We visited the Mel Fisher Maritime Museum, I've been wanting to go there. It was an impressive display of treasures 8O To say the least!

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Day 3 the weather broke, it was clear and almost calm so we packed up and headed back to the outer reef. Wind was about 10 and sea about 2 ft. 45 minutes later we picked up a mooring buoy and made our first dive at Looe Key..

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Words don't describe it, so I won't try. Neither do the pics. May the oil never make it here :help:

Sergeant Majors by the millions..

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Rainbow Runners by the thousands

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Grunts by the ten thousands..

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Parrotfish

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Blue Tangs

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More Sgt. Majors

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Green Parrot fish

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A solid wall of fish..

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
Blue Tang

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Angle fish? Butterfly fish? Help me out Craig :doh: Real pretty fish anyway 8)

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Blue Parrot fish

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Again

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Barracuda

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Didn't I tell ya that a boat was a magic carpet :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:26 pm
by tech_support
That keys water is so nice, just beautiful. I hope to make a family trip there in the next couple years, thanks for the pictures!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
We swam about a mile from the boat on the first trip, glad I'd been swimming 1/2 mile a day for the last month :help: The boat is that little spec to the left of Dori's head..

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Made it back without drowning, or being eaten by sharks :D This is where the camera crapped out :?

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Resident iguana that lived on our deck all week..

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Lobster men getting traps ready for the season...

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That's all for now, I'll work on some more later.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:58 pm
by Lower
Awesome...just awesome! Thanks for sharing the stories and pics. I really enjoyed them. Happy Anniversary as well!!!!!!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:45 pm
by ks8
Yes, and Happy Anniversary! :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall :D I've got a lot more underwater pics if you want to see them :?:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:39 pm
by TomW
Outstanding pics Larry, they really show the beauty of the keys! Let's hope it stays that way!

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:18 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Thanks yall :D I've got a lot more underwater pics if you want to see them :?:
I sure do :D :D :D :D Thanks

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:03 pm
by rick berrey
Was the big gold chain still at Mel Fishers? rick

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:26 pm
by colonialc19
Cracker Larry wrote:Thanks yall :D I've got a lot more underwater pics if you want to see them :?:
Bring em' on Larry, I'd love to see em' 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:14 pm
by topwater
Great pics CL. SO what boat are you building next :?:
are you going to name it medusa :?:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:50 pm
by Fred in Wisc
Great pics. Happy anniversary to you and the Mrs.

Fred in Wisc

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:19 am
by cape man
Image

French angelfish. One we are looking at for captive repro. Nice aquarium fish. Here's a juvenile.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:07 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Craig, I thought it was some type of Angel. Beautiful fish, this one looked to be about 4 pounds.

Thanks to all who replied and the anniversary wishes 8) We appreciate it. I'll get some more pics posted later.
Was the big gold chain still at Mel Fishers? rick
Yes it is. What an impressive sight that was 8O I couldn't believe some of the detail and workmanship of some of the pieces, hard to believe they could do that kind of work in the 1600s 8)
SO what boat are you building next :?:
are you going to name it medusa :?:
I'm thinking about scaling the AB23 down to a 21 :doh: How'd you know her name already :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:19 pm
by Larry B
C Larry, forgot to ask, How did that Jack Plate work out for you?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
The jack plate works real good, I've been intending to comment on it. We initially set it 1" higher than it started on the transom and gave it a short test run. Gained about 150 rpms but it was obvious that it could be raised more. I lifted it another 1/2" before we left for the Keys, didn't have time for another test run. We used it like that all week. RPMs are up about 200 and speed up a little bit. No ventilation or blow out in any sea conditions, and no porpoising at all, so I'm going to raise it another 1/2 and see how she does. Still have some tweaking to do, but I like it.

A few other impressions, the trim is a little more sensitive, as is the range, I guess because of the longer lever arm. I moved my trim limit pin up a hole, to prevent inadvertently stuffing the bow. The steering is also a little more sensitive and authoritative, and the turning point (pivot point) of the boat has changed slightly so it has a little different feel, but not for the worse. I actually think it balances better, but we did keep a mostly full fuel tank all week too, and a big drink cooler in the bow. It's advertised to be adjustable in the water, and maybe so, but it won't be easy and you and your socket wrenches will have to be in the water too. And you'll probably draw blood :help: I only see adjusting it on the trailer.

Another thing I learned last week. The in-hull fish finder transducer does loose a lot of sensitivity and range being mounted like this. In my home waters I never get over 120' deep and it works great. It's a powerful unit rated to 5,000 ft., but shooting through an inch of fiberglass it quits marking fish at about 150 feet, and looses the bottom completely at about 275'. We were fishing in water over 300 every day and 3,000 ft one day, so it wasn't much help. If we spent more time in water this deep, I'd want a through-hull transducer.

And I wanted to mention that we had a main drain plug failure about 30 miles offshore. The first one I've ever seen fail. We were trolling along in flat calm water and the auto pump kicked on once and ran a minute. I didn't give it much thought. Then it kicked on again and ran some more, which gave me instant concern 8O I opened the motor well hatch and saw the drain plug laying in the sump, and water pouring in the hole. I picked up the plug by the snap ring, and the plug didn't come with it. The threaded rod inside the plug had corroded and broke, loosening the tension and let it pop out. I had a couple spare plugs, so it was no emergency, and I'm glad to report that the Rule 2000 pump can easily keep up with a 1 1/4 hole :D Keep a spare plug :!: And buy the most expensive ones you can find. They don't make things like they used to. Probably Chinese :?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:56 pm
by Larry B
Thanks for the report on the Jack plate and transducer. I'm putting in a thru hull, what happened to you is not the reason, Just easier for me to work with. OK just one move question? Do you still have that whale tail on your motor or did you remove it when you installed the jack plate? I did received my jack plate but haven't installed it yet, (no reason to yet) just trying to buy things I'll want or need and spread the cost out :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:32 pm
by TomW
Larry some one either gave me this site or I found it in one of my searches. 1" and below are SS. Definately not cheap! 8O http://www.shawplugs.com/snap-tite-expa ... c-250.html They also have these. http://www.shawplugs.com/turn-tite-expa ... c-249.html

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:02 pm
by TomW
LarryC & B one of the reason's I went with Bob's Versa Jac is you can adjust it on the water with just a socket wrench do to it's center jack screw. It only sets back at 4" or you can get the 6" but it also allows the change to a full hydraulic system if you want to later. I studied all of them all a lot and this was the best as far as I was concerned. Like Larry said you really can't adjust the one you'll got out in the water. But everyone has to make there own decision!!!

This way I hope I can quietly with a four blade prop go up the trout streams as far as possible and float down them.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, still got the Stingray whale tail, love it :D Even though it cost some rpm and speed, it improves the handling and control so much it's worth it. We don't go fast anyway, the boat usually likes mid 20s the best. I'm hoping with the jack plate I can get the rpms back where it was, but I don't think so. I'm still going to have to go down a pitch size in the prop to get it perfect I think. But she's close, real close. :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
LarryC & B one of the reason's I went with Bob's Versa Jac is you can adjust it on the water with just a socket wrench do to it's center jack screw.
It's not the jack screws that you can't reach Tom, they aren't a problem. Mine are right on top. It's the 4 retaining bolts on the side slides :help: The Versa Jack is nice, especially the convertible hydraulic feature, but it cost about twice as much as mine did too. Maybe the next boat :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:47 pm
by tech_support
glad to hear the jackplate is working for you. I can see how a little more leverage on the engine could make for a more sensitive reaction from the trim.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm very pleased with it Joel, it's a nice product :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:58 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:I'm very pleased with it Joel, it's a nice product :D
Yes I think it work just fine for me also.
C Larry, just wondering if there was any problem in it binding when raising the motor? Because of the two piece system? I guess as long as you get the same measurement on each side it will be ok :doh: But looks like you need to be careful so you don't get the motor cocked crooked :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:04 pm
by TomW
Larry what' rpm's are you running now. Let's not go down in pitch size until you decide on the proper heigth of the jack plate. Then we'll look at the pitch and other specifications of your prop. Okay! :wink: As you raise the prop other hydrodynamics come into play. So let's take a look at what your comfortable with when you reach the point where you just slightly vertilating on very, very, very, sharp turns. Something you would never do! :lol: That Black Yamaha is not the best prop in the world. Like I got Kurt on a 13x 13 Turbo for his F75 I think we can get you something better.

Oh by the way the VJ only cost about a $100 bucks more not twice as much! :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
No binding at all, it's slick as a ....forget that thought :lol: You can get it off kilter if you try, but it's easy to keep straight with a ruler, or what I've done so far is to cut a piece of hardwood dowel as a spacer and use it like a long feeler gauge between the upper and lower jack blocks, to make sure both sides are adjusted equally.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:39 pm
by Larry B
Thanks, the dowel idea sounds just like the ticket. I'll keep that in mind.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
Oh by the way the VJ only cost about a $100 bucks more not twice as much!
OK. More like $155 :wink: From their website, $414 compared to $259. Less Joel's discount :wink: No matter :lol:

She's turning about 5500 rpms . I'm not planning on changing props until I get the jack plate set just right. And even then, probably not until I bust this one :lol: I'm surprised it's lasted this long now. It might not be the best, but it's a tough scoundrel, and better than the 2 high performance props I've tried. :D We'll get it perfect, eventually. I'm thinking I can still get another 150 rpms with the jack plate, then we'll see.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think the other issue with the prop is that we've been gaining weight since February before last when we first did our testing. :oops: I keep adding stuff, and keeping more gear aboard, carrying more weight in tackle, cast nets, chum bag weights, added another battery and switch, instrument box, instruments, more wiring, spreader lights, jack plate itself.....yep, we've gained a few hundred pounds since we started. And I often carry 3 or 4 big adults on fishing trips. Plus 100 pounds of ice, fishing in the summer. I have to think that's contributing to the loss of RPMs :doh: I do have an aluminum Yamaha prop in a 15 pitch ( my spare) that I could try for an experiment. It's never been installed.

Maybe I should weigh the boat again, and then we work from those new numbers? I know when it's right, and know when it's wrong, but I sure hate all the math :|

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:12 pm
by TomW
Larry don't know where your got your price for the Versa Jac I only paid $346.50 after the discount and free shipping. This was for the 4" set back. :lol: :lol: No big deal!!!

Like you say let's get your jack plate up where ypu are comfortable with it and then we can start to prop it right. Get the boat weighed again as it has become a tub of lard. :wink: As any boat tends to do! :lol: I think we may want to go with a 4 blade prop since you want to be able to go offshore and still go even shallower inshore. But we will see. Nothing is written in gold.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:27 am
by Larry B
On a different note; is your T-top made out of aluminum or stainless? Didn't plan on a t top but need some shade and don't want a bimimi top. (besides your top is just too cool 8)) Thinking I might know someone who can build me one :D Just have to figure out the measurements I want.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry don't know where your got your price for the Versa Jac I only paid $346.50 after the discount and free shipping. This was for the 4" set back.
Bob's website, I said that :doh:
From their website, $414 compared to $259.
I was comparing apples to apples, mine is not a 4", I compared it to the 6" :wink: I can do simple math :lol: Mine is also adjustable to 2 different setback distances and 3 transom angles :wink: The other difference between mine and yours is that I can show you a picture of mine :P

Image
On a different note; is your T-top made out of aluminum or stainless?
Aluminum. Almost all of them are aluminum.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:51 pm
by Larry B
[quote="Cracker Larry The other difference between mine and yours is that I can show you a picture of mine :P

[/quote]
I can show a picture of mine too, just not on the boat yet :wink:
I figured Aluminum but found some on the net that were Stainless, but thought they would be way too heavy. I'm going to design one up using PVC pipe then take it to my son-in-laws shop and see if we can fabricate it up.
Funny how things change on these boats, I had no intention at all for a t-top, but as I get closer I'm finding things I want or need. A lot of hard work ahead but sure is the fun stuff making it look good :D :D Hope to start on my trailer this coming month also.
Oh and thanks for the info. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
If you're looking on line, my friend Raymond Martin at Martin Marine design can build you whatever you want for a very good price, and he ships world wide.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:28 pm
by Doc_Dyer
Cracker Larry wrote: The other difference between mine and yours is that I can show you a picture of mine :P

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:58 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks, the dowel idea sounds just like the ticket. I'll keep that in mind.
Larry, I raised the engine again this morning, thought I'd show you what I meant with the spacer. I wanted to lift it 1/2", so I first measured the distance between the jack blocks, which was 2", then cut a wood spacer 1/2" longer. Today I used a scrap piece of molding, anything that fits is OK. Loosen the 4 retaining bolts, jack the engine up more or less evenly, same number of turns on each side, and use the wood spacer as a gauge to make sure both sides are equal height.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:36 am
by Larry B
Thanks C Larry, I did know what you were talking about in the other post, I'm not that mentally challenged :doh: :wink: Although you might think so with some of the questions I ask :doh: :wink: And I just might have some coming your way now that I want a T_Top :D Thanks for the name who makes them, but I'm going to give it a shot myself first :help: Going to mock it up with PVC pipe.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:48 pm
by gstanfield
While we're talking T-tops I was wondering what diameter tubing is used? the ones I'se seen have smaller tubing up top and larger for the uprights, but I've never had my calipers in hand when walking by one :D

Thanks,
George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:00 pm
by Larry B
gstanfield wrote:While we're talking T-tops I was wondering what diameter tubing is used? the ones I'se seen have smaller tubing up top and larger for the uprights, but I've never had my calipers in hand when walking by one :D

Thanks,
George
George, Taco T-Tops uses 1 1/2" IPS for the uprights and 1" IPS for the top itself.
http://piersupply.com/images/pdf/T34-1000.pdf

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:32 pm
by TomW
George this company uses 1.5 for all the frames. http://www.atlantictowers.com/at_sub/products_s_t.html

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:54 pm
by gstanfield
Cool, thanks guys. I kinda thought that's what it looked like, but not having any measuring device on me I didn't want to guess. I am currently working on a project for a friend, but I'll post more details when the time is right :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Mine is light, and it uses 1 1/2 for for all the legs and braces, 1 1/4" for the top frame. It's OK for a small boat like this, but for a 23' I'd want a lot stronger. Raymond tells me he won't use less than 2" for legs and 1 1/2 for the top, even for the smallest boats.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:43 pm
by gstanfield
Here's a good reason to have a strong top, even on a smaller boat :D I personally wouldn't try and bring a fish that big into a boat that small, but apparently they survived 8)

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:52 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Mine is light, and it uses 1 1/2 for for all the legs and braces, 1 1/4" for the top frame. It's OK for a small boat like this, but for a 23' I'd want a lot stronger. Raymond tells me he won't use less than 2" for legs and 1 1/2 for the top, even for the smallest boats.
Good info C Larry. If I'm going to do a top I might need to start over on my console :doh: If I leave the console as is I'll only have about 20" on the side for the leg spread or put one leg coming up the side of the front seat/hatch? I think I can make it work, but I'm not real happy with my console and may redesign it anyway.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:37 pm
by Larry B
C Larry, OK maybe after looking at your photos I'll only have to make a small adjustment on my console. I'm not a engineer so I have to go with what others have made. The Taco top has a leg spread of 30" on center. Yours looks to be about 24" on center. If you could verify this I would only have to modify my console about 3" to 4" as I know that would work.
Your friend Raymond use's 2" Man thats Stout :D Hard to get your hand around that to hang on?? I'm going to try to stick with 1 1/2" and cross brace it on the console like yours is.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
The Taco top has a leg spread of 30" on center. Yours looks to be about 24" on center. If you could verify this I would only have to modify my console about 3" to 4" as I know that would work.
Mine is actually 20" on center in width, at the sole. 40" between the 2 rear legs, center to center of the pipe. Any wider and you couldn't slide a bucket past it. The fore to aft spread is 28", center to center of the pipe.
I'm going to try to stick with 1 1/2" and cross brace it on the console like yours is.
Raymond built those cross braces for me, and they make it solid as an oak tree. There are 6 attachment points to the console and 4 to the sole, so it's pretty strong. Strong enough to lift that little tuna anyway :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:13 pm
by Larry B
Mine is actually 20" on center in width, at the sole. 40" between the 2 rear legs, center to center of the pipe. Any wider and you couldn't slide a bucket past it. The fore to aft spread is 28", center to center of the pipe.
OK here I go again being mentally challenged :doh: Looking for the foot print? If I'm making sense of your measurements, the foot print is 28" fore to aft? 40" port to starboard? 20" :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:08 am
by TomW
Larry B just to be sure we are talking the same thing the pipe both Taco and Atlantic use is 1.5" IPS or 1.9" outside diameter. I don't know if CL's Raymund uses 2" outside or 2"IPS which would be 2 1/2" outside diameter or a little more. It does make a difference.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:35 am
by Larry B
TomW wrote:Larry B just to be sure we are talking the same thing the pipe both Taco and Atlantic use is 1.5" IPS or 1.9" outside diameter. I don't know if CL's Raymund uses 2" outside or 2"IPS which would be 2 1/2" outside diameter or a little more. It does make a difference.

Tom
Thanks for that info Tom.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:38 am
by Cracker Larry
OK here I go again being mentally challenged :doh: Looking for the foot print? If I'm making sense of your measurements, the foot print is 28" fore to aft? 40" port to starboard? 20"
Yes, footprint is 28" fore and aft, 40" port to starboard. 20" boat center line to either side :wink:

The pipe sizes I gave are outside diameter. I'm not sure if it is actually an IPS pipe size, or a tubing :doh: I can call Raymond and find out for sure.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:21 am
by Larry B
Thanks C Larry, I've got to add about 3" to 4" to my console otherwise I think the fore and aft footprint will be too small. It will be OK, because when I started my console I forgot to slant the back of the forward seat of the console (hope you can understand that comment) So I can leave everything as is except cut and pull the seat part forward 4" to give a nice slant to the back of the seat. WOW that was a mouthful :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:47 pm
by BassMunn
Hey CL, just spent the last hour reading about your latest adventure - Love it! It's so nice to see adventures like that.
Your boats done you proud.
I used to do a lot of diving and have even dived in places like the Maldives and I have to say that the area that you dived in those pics looks really world class.

Gotta love a little light tackle Dolphin action :D

So when's the next trip? :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thank you sir :D This little boat has been doing us proud everywhere we go 8)
So when's the next trip?
Friday :lol: I'm heading back down to Florida for a 2 day overnight trip, with Aripeka Angler, Doc Dyer, Smoky Mountain and I think Derrick. We're going out about 80 miles for Grouper, Snapper and whatever else comes along :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:37 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
CL what would you think of a larger top like pictured in the study plans for the GS28X, on the AB23. Other than fishing around the legs, if you had to work around the boat, is there any advantage or disadvantage to mounting a larger top to the gunwales instead of to the sole and console? Looking at those guys hauling that "little" tuna in got me wondering about the feasibility of a larger top on a 23' boat? Also wondering about a one man "fly bridge" on a boat that size? Thanks. TDDD :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:56 pm
by gstanfield
I'd say the fly bridge could be done, if it works aon a XF20 then it should work on a AB23 :D

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:34 am
by Cracker Larry
Brett, I'm a fisherman so I wouldn't want a gunwale mount top. Our fish run us around and around the boat, got to be able to fish 360. It would sure give more shade and weather protection than a T, but fish-ability is a priority to me. I'll just have to get wet :lol: Also consider the drag when trailering. The top really adds to wind resistance.

Like George said, the fly bridge could sure be done, my friend Raymond builds folding towers for small boats all the time. You see many small boats around, especially in S. Florida with 1 man towers. This boat is a little larger than yours, but this is one of Raymond's folding towers

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:11 pm
by Larry B
C Larry, Yep another question? :D If you had it to do over again would you go with the taco rub rail? Was getting close to ordering it but thought I'd ask the question first? Also did you just end up doing a miter at the bow? Thanks in advance.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
If you had it to do over again would you go with the taco rub rail?
Yes, absolutely. It is extremely tough, really protects the hull, looks good, still looks like new actually. Mine is heavier than a lot of people use for this size boat, it's really sized for about a 30', but I like it like that. Bulletproof :D The extra thickness gives it some spray deflecting qualities also. It was a b@tch to install, but that was mostly my fault doing it on a cold day without enough help. A hot day and 2 men, it would be fairly easy. In 40 degrees, with my wife, it wasn't :lol:

And yes, it's just a miter at the bow. It fits pretty good, looks pretty good, not perfect, not bad... I've been meaning to make a piece of molding to cover the joint, but it just hasn't made it to the top of the list yet. Or even to the middle of the list. The last time I pulled the boat to Raymond's I meant to ask him to make one for me out of aluminum, it would take him 5 minutes, and me 3 days. Forgot, but it's still on the list :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:04 pm
by Larry B
Thanks Larry, this is the one I was going to order: http://piersupply.com/Rub-Rail-Kit-V11-2423BBK50-2 I think it's the same one you used?
Also, I'm going back and forth on weather to use a anchor roller at the bow or fairleads like you used :doh: Could you explain what the benifits of each would be? I like how clean your bow looks and with a roller I know it will stick out and give me something else to trip over :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:51 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Image 8)
I like that, a lot. What's something like that ( the entire top and folding bridge ) cost, ballpark if your friend were to build one, not looking for a price quote per se' but curious if I could budget it in. Next time you talk to he maybe you could show him photo ( to remind him ) & give him an idea of the AB23 size to see what he says? I'm also gonna go back through here and find the pictures you posted some time back of his work. Thanks for the topic, and keeping answers coming to all the varied questions. I appreciate it. 8) :wink: Hey ?!?! Is that you at the helm of Laid Back ? That cutting board design on the transom looks familiar too? Maybe it had bright finished sides on it last time I saw it ? :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
Hey ?!?! Is that you at the helm of Laid Back ? That cutting board design on the transom looks familiar too?
Looks just like me, don't it :wink:
What's something like that ( the entire top and folding bridge ) cost, ballpark if your friend were to build one
That's a 35' boat, so the price wouldn't even be comparable. It's going to depend a lot on what you want on it, antenna mounts, radar mount, outrigger mounts, lights of various sorts, electronic boxes, rod holders, controls, integrated wiring for all the above, powder coated or polished, storage bags.... I hate to make a guess, too many variables, but a pure guess for a fairly well equipped top with folding tower for your boat, not much less than 4K but probably less than 8K. His basic T-top for a boat that size starts about 2K, and goes up from there. It's a very nice top for 2K, but the sky is the limit :lol: ..... Better for you to send him (or me) a sketch or photo of what you want, along with a line drawing of the boat and console, and let him give you a price. He's very reasonable and he tells me he can ship almost anywhere in the country for about $100.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:21 am
by chicagoross
That one's probably got a thousand dollars worth of rodholders welded on it... :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:52 am
by Cracker Larry
That one's probably got a thousand dollars worth of rodholders welded on it...
I can give you the price of those. He includes 4 rod holders with his basic top price, then charges $100 each for extra. They are nice tulip holders with liners. You can't even buy them for $100 ea.
I'm going back and forth on weather to use a anchor roller at the bow or fairleads like you used
Larry, I'd skip the roller. Without a pulpit or sprit there isn't enough overhang to keep the anchor clear of the hull. You'll be banging the anchor against the bow every time you pull it. It's a small boat, not really needing a roller anyway unless it was going to be anchored for weeks on end, then you might want it for chafe protection. The chocks you would probably want, roller or not. They protect the hull from the lines rubbing on it, docked or anchored. A sandy dock line can rub the paint off the deck in short order. This pic sucks, but you can see the chocks keeping the lines off the deck..

Image

I'd highly recommend 2 cleats on the bow.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:40 am
by Larry B
Thanks for the info Larry. Yea I kinda mocked up a spirit and it really doesnt look good on the OD. But the main reason for the roller was for when pulling up anchor (or letting it out) to keep the rope from chaffing the rub rail? I guess I just have to lean over and pull it up so it don't do that :doh: Like I said before, please bear with me on some of this because it's all new to me and I want to do it right and keep my boat looking good :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:53 am
by Cracker Larry
We lean over to pull the anchor. Even Mrs. Cracker can do it without banging up the boat.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:24 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:We lean over to pull the anchor. Even Mrs. Cracker can do it without banging up the boat.
Thats all I needed to hear :D Now these lazy people I fish with better get off there azz's and not chaf my boat or they can find someone else to fish with :wink: Noticed even in my FL14 they like to drag the rope over the rub rail (even with a anchor roller within inchs) But I'm pretty sure it's going to be fairleads (chocks) on the bow of the OD. Or maybe when I fish with these certain people I'll have to put a bib on my OD :wink:
Thanks Much for the helpful info.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:04 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
what you want on it, antenna mounts, radar mount, outrigger mounts, lights of various sorts, electronic boxes, rod holders, controls, integrated wiring for all the above, powder coated or polished, storage bags....
Yes
Yes
Yes, please for 15' O/R ( Not telescopic, but lower-able )
Yes,.. 2 cock pit floods aft, one remote control spot toward the bow, instrument lights, courtesy lights p. & starboard.
Yes, 2 please with 6 hour back up gel cell batteries.
Yes, 12 please properly space and angled.
Yes, hydraulic please with throttle and shift, nav & sonar acc display as well please.
Yes, integrated for all the above with service loops and access points.
Powder Coated Bone White with Burgandy Blood Pin striping and Airbrushed ThistleDew Logo.
PFD, First Aide, and Emergency Equipment Storage Please.
Cup / Can Holders
Six Bose 131 Marine Speakers, 2 in the tower, four in the top,.. Please.
Removable Weather Skirts, and roll up side shades of Sunbrella or better, please.
Stowe-able, Helm and Cockpit directional oscillating fans too please.
Lightning protection with dedicated and redundant, paths to ground for all please.

No need to deliver, I'll come and get it. :)

Line Drawings of the final Console design and boat layout to follow. :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
8O I'll deliver it for my sales commission :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:09 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Hey, If you're gonna dream,........ :) 8) I need to order plywood. :?

Re:

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:09 pm
by Larry B
C Larry, was going thru your thread and came across this post. I'm fairing the sides before I glue down the gunwales. Much easier I think leaning over the side than bending down while inside the boat. I'll primer also, that way when I get to the inside all I have to worry about is the floor. Also by enclosing the bow area I saved on extensive fairing in the hard to get to spots :wink: Just couldn't picture my fat ass trying to fair under those gunwales :doh:

Cracker Larry wrote:Alright, we got all the T top mounting points squared away and ready for installation.

Then I got back to the dreaded filling and sanding of the interior. For 5 straight days, about 10 hours a day. 105 degrees under my tin roof :help: I've filled...

Image

And sanded.....

Image

And filled some more.....

And sanded some more.

Image

My back gave out on Tuesday, my arms gave out on Wednesday,
almost said good nuff on several occasions. Just about lost my will power on Thursday. Arms and back numb. Covered in a white paste of sweat and sanding dust. Thought I was going to have a heat stroke.

Sanded all day Friday, running on stubborn alone. Iced down one of Craigs famous and prized BBBs, but couldn't lift the bottle. Ms. Cracker brought me rum and a straw. Good woman 8)

Don't think I can do it again today. Might go fishing :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:22 am
by coalbear_1
hum, I think I will go with carpet. No sound and easy on the back.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:05 am
by Cracker Larry
But when she's done, she's done. Cleaning the slime of yesterdays 40 red fish, not to mention a couple hours casting for shrimp, out of carpet would take more labor than the fairing :help:

Fair the sides before the gunwales go on :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
Last report on the jack plate. It's great :D

I'd raised it another 1/2" last week and tested it with good results, gained another 100 RPM and a couple miles an hour. Then raised it another 1/2" and tested it heavy all day Saturday with Mrs. Cracker on board, fishing and shrimping gear, 50 pounds of ice, 3/4 fuel (30 gallons), and a full bait well. RPMs and speed are both back to where they were before installing the Stingray fin :D Now maxing out about 5,600 rpm and 35 mph with this load, 5,000 rpm and 30 mph at fast cruise. No ventilation on turns, or in a short following or head sea. I think I'll leave it right here. The anti-ventilation plate is running flush with the water surface for the first time ever, so I think she's finally right. Another prop will be needed to get it perfect, but it's close enough. I'll run this one until we bust it. The engine is 2" higher than it was, reducing running draft by that much and increasing efficiency a noticeable amount. It's running faster, shallower and more efficiently, so it was money well spent.

One day in the Keys we ran 186 miles by the GPS, all the way to the Bahama Banks and back, zig -zagging and fishing along the way. Filled up the next morning with 21 gallons of gas. Averaged 8.85 mpg and less than 2.5 gph over the course of the day, about half the time trolling, half the time running at 4,000-5,000. Not bad for a 2 stroke :D

Mrs. Cracker had never seen the stake out stick in action either and she was very impressed. We slid into the first red fish hole Saturday and she asked if she should get the anchor ready. I told her no, we'd just stake out. I asked her to pull out the Wang Stick and hold it until I got us positioned. Her immediate response was predictable :lol: "You don't expect me to hold this damn stick in the mud while you fish, do you?" No dear, just hold it a minute then hand it to me. I slid it in the bracket and planted it in the mud, and she says "That's it? That stick won't hold this boat!" Just watch says I :lol: After 3 moves, none of which required her to pull the anchor, she was in love :D I think I might finally make a fisherman out of her, it's taken 36 years, but she's slowly coming around. And much happier not having to pull in 25 pounds of anchor and chain (of course I COULD pull the anchor myself, but I like to keep her in shape :lol: ) and I'm much happier not listening to her b@tch, and we sneak up on the fish better, so it's a win-win :D More money well spent.

If you fish in skinny water you've got to try a stake out stick, and if you want the best efficiency from the motor you should really try a jack plate. I highly recommend both 8)

Not much I can do now to further improve the OD18, she is a sweet and first class lady. Trustworthy, reliable, well mannered in every respect, and get's the job done. That's why we call them shes :wink: I reckon we can finally call this one done, sure hope the next boat is as good :lol: She's a magic carpet, better than watching TV....

Image

She'll get you there safely

Image

Take you to places like this..

Image

And brings you back through this...don't try this at home :wink:

Image

So, our plans are to use this boat for the next year or 2 for fishing charters and recreation while we build an Abaco 23. I'll be starting a new thread on that very soon. Then this lady will probably be for sale, can't keep too many mistresses :lol: We'll see.

Thanks again to all you folks who have helped and given moral support on this build. She wouldn't be nearly as good without yall :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:29 pm
by Larry B
Good info Larry. I've got my jack plate and plan on getting the stingray fin. Now I'll just need the correct prop and should be good to go :D Haven't got the motor nailed down yet, but pretty sure it's gonna be a 60hp E-Tec, you know the one with the special button for maintence :D J/K But not about the E-Tec.

btw this picture scares me??? :help:
Image
Sure wouldn't want to be in my FL14 in that :help: :help: :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
btw this picture scares me???
No need to be scared in a good boat :lol: Those squall lines form every afternoon along the SE coast, from SC to south Florida. If you're going to fish offshore here in the summer, you're going to run through those squalls coming home in the afternoon. 30 minutes or so and it's usually over. The rain isn't a danger, it's just wet and uncomfortable. Stings your eyes. The wind is strong but it doesn't blow long enough over a long fetch to build any significant seas. Just makes a lot of noise and spray. The lightning, well, that's just a test to make sure you're living right :wink: It probably won't hit you. If it does, it probably won't hurt you. If it does, you'll probably never know it :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:37 pm
by TomW
LarryB let me know when your ready to prop your boat and engine. That 60Etec is one powerful little engine. The torque it has can drive a prop equal to what the 70 or 75HP other engines can. For example the new Yammi 70 can drive a 13 pitch at 6000 rpm's, while the Etec 60 will drive a 17 pitch at 6000 rpms on my C18 at 1900lbs. A difference of about 3-5 mph at top end with even more effect at the mid-range.

So good choice on the motor and let me know once you know the rough weight for your average trip. I'll probably need some other things to get closer to the real characteristics but your still a little ways a way from those. I'll then run them through my 3 prop calculators. Let me know also if you want a 3 blade or a 4 blade prop that will let you run shallower. It will help me give you a prop size and a suggestion of where to go to get the right prop.

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:09 pm
by TomW
No need to be scared in a good boat Those squall lines form every afternoon along the SE coast, from SC to south Florida. If you're going to fish offshore here in the summer, you're going to run through those squalls coming home in the afternoon. 30 minutes or so and it's usually over. The rain isn't a danger, it's just wet and uncomfortable. Stings your eyes. The wind is strong but it doesn't blow long enough over a long fetch to build any significant seas. Just makes a lot of noise and spray. The lightning, well, that's just a test to make sure you're living right It probably won't hit you. If it does, it probably won't hurt you. If it does, you'll probably never know it
Yep, those short term squalls form all over the world. The Great Lakes see them, seen them in the Mediterrean, and in the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. Heck even in the middle of the Atlantic where two systems meet you can bounce from storm to storm. In the North Atlantic they call them something else as they usually bring fog along with the short term rain. But what ever they are called where ever they are formed they last less than 45-30 minutes and are gone. Usually with no damage to anything. Minor wave increase, larger wind increase, large rain increase, lighting can be there or not, I guess it's how your living :doh: . 1/2 of the ones I'v been in have expended them selves and we had no lightning, 1/2 had lightning in them. And like Larry says if it hits you, you'll probably never know it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:20 pm
by Larry B
TomW wrote:LarryB let me know when your ready to prop your boat and engine. That 60Etec is one powerful little engine. The torque it has can drive a prop equal to what the 70 or 75HP other engines can. For example the new Yammi 70 can drive a 13 pitch at 6000 rpm's, while the Etec 60 will drive a 17 pitch at 6000 rpms on my C18 at 1900lbs. A difference of about 3-5 mph at top end with even more effect at the mid-range.

So good choice on the motor and let me know once you know the rough weight for your average trip. I'll probably need some other things to get closer to the real characteristics but your still a little ways a way from those. I'll then run them through my 3 prop calculators. Let me know also if you want a 3 blade or a 4 blade prop that will let you run shallower. It will help me give you a prop size and a suggestion of where to go to get the right prop.

Tom
Thanks for the help Tom. I'm finding out on the lake that I'm going to be fishing most, I'll be in the shallows more than I thought. So I'll want to prop it to run shallow. Hope to have a final desision on the motor soon :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:59 pm
by Steven
"I asked her to pull out the Wang Stick and hold it until I got us positioned. Her immediate response was predictable " To much there to no where to start. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Steven, I'm laughing so hard I can't type :lol: :lol: I never thought of it in that context :oops: Maybe I'll shut up now :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:30 pm
by TomW
Stephen your bad, showed this to the wife and well.................. :lol: :lol: :lol: You know after 15 hrs of work it don't take much to entertain them! :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:31 pm
by cape man
yeah you should shut up :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Or then I have to say something as well, and then your thread goes to the Bilge...

Have fun with Richard. Wish i was going but we're having a little family reunion with the Patriarch. More important....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
yeah you should shut up :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Or then I have to say something as well, and then your thread goes to the Bilge...
I'm not the one who named the dang thang a wang stick, but I'll shut up now :lol:

Have fun with Richard. Wish i was going but we're having a little family reunion with the Patriarch. More important..
The Patriarch? I wouldn't want to interfere with him 8) Wish you could come though, and the weather is looking real good. If things change, I'm sure we can make room. I always welcome your company. Of course it's Richards boat, so he'll need to welcome your company too, but he probably will :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:55 am
by stickystuff
I watched a guy and his fishin partner get hit by lightening about four years ago. We were, my partner and I fishing in the Ozello area of Crystal River. Storms all around us with plenty of lightening. Storm passed and we went back out on the flats. From no where a small black cloud came up and a loud crack and lightening about 100 yards away hit. Then we heard a lot of screaming. Seems two guys in a small boat were fishin. One was sitting down rigging his rod and the other was standing up in the bow casting, He was faceing to stern. Lightening hit the guy sitting down on the head andknocked him out and went across and hit his partner in the chest blowing him about 30 ft. out of the boat. Of course he died instantly. Another boat with a jet drive was close by and he came flying up and one of the guys jumped overboard and they pulled him in and started CPR. While working on him the other driver headed to the ramp and called medics. Its a 10 mile ride from Hwy 19 to end of Ozello trail. So it took them a good half hour for medics to get there. They worked on this guy for over an hour to no prevail. So for the record if you see lightening get the hell out of their. With todays fishing rods ,mostly graphite, lay them down stay low and if you can outrun a storm do so. Got to use common sense.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:10 am
by Knottybuoyz
stickystuff wrote: So for the record if you see lightening get the hell out of their. With todays fishing rods ,mostly graphite, lay them down stay low and if you can outrun a storm do so. Got to use common sense.
I read a story a few years ago about a lightening strike in western Lake Erie. A guy was sitting on the outboard of a boat with his feet dangling in the water (don't ask me why I dunno). There wasn't a could in the sky. All of a sudden he was blown off the outboard and face first into the water. His boating buddy had no idea what happened. Hauled him back in the boat and noticed he was burnt on his feet, clothing and head. IIRC he survived the ordeal. Just a note you can't outrun lightening and it can travel many many miles from the storm. Sticky's advice to get low is a good one. Bring the engine up, out of the water if possible, lower the masts etc.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:Steven, I'm laughing so hard I can't type :lol: :lol: I never thought of it in that context :oops: Maybe I'll shut up now :lol:
I'm gonna have to get one just so I can ask my wife to hold it. :) I'm sure her response will be predictable as well. ;)



On topic. Lightening is some crazy stuff. I'm not sure I'd run offshore if I knew I'd have to come home through a lightening storm.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:24 pm
by Joe H
Those are some fantastic pictures Larry, it's good to know as I sit behind my CAD station in a dark office just outside of Detroit that there's another world out there, thanks for sharing them.

Joe H

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
I read a story a few years ago about a lightening strike in western Lake Erie. A guy was sitting on the outboard of a boat with his feet dangling in the water (don't ask me why I dunno). There wasn't a could in the sky. All of a sudden he was blown off the outboard and face first into the water. His boating buddy had no idea what happened. Hauled him back in the boat and noticed he was burnt on his feet, clothing and head. IIRC he survived the ordeal. Just a note you can't outrun lightening and it can travel many many miles from the storm. Sticky's advice to get low is a good one. Bring the engine up, out of the water if possible, lower the masts etc.
I told an almost identical story in a post here a few years ago. Some of you may remember it and my friend Dale, bald headed, no ass and walks with a limp?

I'll tell it again. We were about 17 years old and trout fishing in the Herb River near Savannah. The sky was clear blue over head but there was a small thunderstorm over Romerly Marsh about 8 miles away. Dale was sitting on the engine of my Mckee Craft with his feet in the water and I was in the bow. All of a sudden my hair stood straight up, I looked at Dale and his was also standing up. Then I saw a bolt hit his fishing rod and jump to the top of his head. Then he was gone, leaving a chunk of smoking meat on the engine cowling. I figured he was dead, but I dove straight in the water and pulled him up, surprised to find him still breathing. Somehow I got him in the boat, don't know how. He was bleeding bad from both feet and his ass, and had a hole in the top of his head. All his hair was gone. I made bandages from our shirts and wrapped his feet, then rushed him to the closest marina to get some help. This was before 911 was invented. He recovered fine but his hair never grew back, got no ass and walks with a limp.

Funny this should come up now, I just found an old pic of that McKee Craft the other day 8) Here it is....

Image

I've been in boats struck by lightning dozens of times. Weird stuff.
I'm not sure I'd run offshore if I knew I'd have to come home through a lightening storm.
I look at it like I do rattlesnakes in the woods. They usually won't bite you and it keeps the sissies home :lol:
Those are some fantastic pictures Larry, it's good to know as I sit behind my CAD station in a dark office just outside of Detroit that there's another world out there,
Thanks Joe, glad to help :wink: You need to get out of there :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:56 pm
by Larry B
I thought about this thread on lightning while I was on the lake today in my FL14. Thunderstorm came up with high winds, lightning all around me. Was trying to make the boat ramp but the storm had different ideas for me. When the waves started coming in the boat, I turned it into shore and as fast as I could (about 6 mph in a FL14) I ran her as far as I could up on shore, Nothing but rocks on the shore too :help: Figured if I was gonna sink, I preferred rocks instead of bobbing in the lake. So there I stood like a idiot holding my boat with the anchor out to help me, with lighting going off around me and waves filling my boat :doh: And thinking about this thread :help: Waited for the storm to pass which took a while, then bailed out the boat and headed for the ramp. After bailing the boat didn't see any leaks so I took off. Haven't accessed the damage yet, but I'm sure there is some. Dry cloths sure feel good though :D
C Larry, hope you don't mind my story in your thread???

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:49 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Last report on the jack plate. It's great :D

I'd raised it another 1/2" last week and tested it with good results, gained another 100 RPM and a couple miles an hour.
C Larry, could you post a picture of cavitation plate in relationship to the bottom of the hull? Just curious about this height thing. :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
Pic will have to wait until next week, we'll be bending rods all weekend :D The anti-cavitation plate is about 3 1/4 inches above the hull bottom, a little higher than halfway between the bottom and the waterline. The waterline is 6" up the transom.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:57 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Pic will have to wait until next week, we'll be bending rods all weekend :D The anti-cavitation plate is about 3 1/4 inches above the hull bottom, a little higher than halfway between the bottom and the waterline. The waterline is 6" up the transom.
Thanks for the fast reply, good luck on the fishing trip. Sure wish I was there :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
Delta is ready when you are :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:20 pm
by topwater
CL a quick question for you, what sizebolts are used to bolt up the engine bracket :?:
I need to know the diameter. I am making a engine mount template.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
1/2" bolts are standard.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:52 pm
by majorgator
topwater wrote:
CL a quick question for you, what sizebolts are used to bolt up the engine bracket
That's easy. After shuffling through my collection of bolts, screws, nuts, washers, and other misc hardware, I just pick the biggest set of matching stainless steel hardware I can find. :wink: :wink: Yep, I'm a redneck :wink:

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:20 pm
by TomW
There shouldn't be any movement of the bolts in the holes. Like CL said 1/2" is pretty standard.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:44 am
by topwater
I dont have a bracket at this time , matter of fact the trasom is laying flat on the work bench.
the reason i ask is i am going to use the engine mount holes for my roll over attachment
points. I would like to get them drilled,filled to the correct size before i hang the transom.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:52 am
by Cracker Larry
That's a neat idea. Like a barbecue spit 8) 1/2" is what you want.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:05 am
by topwater
CL and tom thanks, 1/2" it is . thats the idea :idea:
OOPS i didnt see your post on the last page, sorry :oops:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:37 pm
by Larry B
It's me again :D being anal and confused :doh:
Trying to get my s&^%$ together and get more stuff ordered. And as usual some of your picture confuse me????

OK, in this picture the trim/tilt switch is on the top side of the Binnacle?
Image

and in this picture its on the bottom?? :help: does that plate just reverse??
Image

And another question, I have found that they have the right and left side mounted handle and controls. I'm right handed and need a control similar to yours. I want the neutral lock out also. I've looked at all of the teleflex binnacle's and just keep getting confused. Yep, what is the part number for the one you got?
Thanks for your help.
Larry B

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
And as usual some of your picture confuse me????
:lol:
and in this picture its on the bottom?? :help: does that plate just reverse??
Yes, the cover plate is reversible, you can put it on either way. I don't even use that switch, nothing is wired to it. It's actually a tilt switch, if you need one. The trim switch is right at your thumb on the throttle handle. Older style engines and a lot of I/Os require 2 switches, one for trim and another for tilt, but most newer OBs only need one switch to do both. Teleflex tries to cover all the bases, but most applications won't need the second switch :D
I want the neutral lock out also. I've looked at all of the teleflex binnacle's and just keep getting confused. Yep, what is the part number for the one you got?
They all have neutral lock out, it's the law. I'll look up the part number for you after I take a shower. I'm nasty!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:30 pm
by TomW
Larry here is the one I have bookmarked for me. It's the same Teleflex 7500 as CL's without the tilt switch, the trim switch is on the handle within thumb reach. I couldn't find a better price even on e-bay. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1364183 They also have this one with black trim: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1364165

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, I smell better now :D Dang this heat, 98 degrees every day, and raining. How can it be 98 and raining :doh:

Mine is a CH7500, like Tom said. I paid about the same price for mine too.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:59 pm
by Larry B
Thanks Tom and Larry, thats what I'll get.
So all I need is the trim right? I don't need the tilt? btw, what is the frickin difference?????

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:07 pm
by Larry B
Another question?
It says it comes with: All controls include start in gear protection

Then it says: Optional neutral interlock available

What am I missing here?? :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
It comes with the neutral interlock standard. An optional one would be for controlling 2 engines with 1 control box, or for paralleling another control box to it with dual station controls. You won't need the optional one.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:44 am
by tech_support
How much more weight were you pulling in the truck when you left Key West :?: :)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6 ... mesticNews

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
How much more weight were you pulling in the truck when you left Key West
Only about 4.7 pounds :lol: Got to finance this new build somehow :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:07 pm
by Larry B
Hey C Larry, if you don't mind I need a couple more measurements :wink: I'm planning on 14" wheels for my trailer and just curious what you have??
And also, my trailer will be only about 1.5 inchs wider than yours so the boat should fit about the same. I'm going to weld my bunk supports on so I don't have to worry about them. What is he height from the top of channel to top of bunk board?? Also what spacing did you go with on the bunks? I want to put the boat as low as possible on the trailer to make it easier to launch. I'm going to build some guide bunks that will guide the bow perfect on the trailer, they will only touch the graphic chine. I'm also making my trailer about 22' long.
Thanks for your help.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:16 am
by gstanfield
Got to finance this new build somehow
well, that's some mighty fertile land you have there and not much traffic around..... :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:02 am
by Fonda@kauai
well, that's some mighty fertile land you have there and not much traffic around.....
:lol: 4 months and you crop out with a cool 25k....... I'm sure you've thought about it :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:51 am
by Cracker Larry
:lol: Actually Fonda, in this climate we can roll a crop in 90 days :wink:
not much traffic around.....
It would be real easy, if we could take satellite surveillance and black helicopters out of the equation. Things ain't easy anymore for a man trying to make an honest living.

Larry B, I'll get those measurements for you in a little while.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:47 am
by Cracker Larry
I'm going to build some guide bunks that will guide the bow perfect on the trailer, they will only touch the graphic chine.
You're putting graphics on your chine? :doh:

Wheels are 14". Top of frame to top of bunks is 4.5 inches. Bunk spacing is 23" inside to inside. Bunks are 2X6.

One more measurement that might help. From the ground to the top of the bunk is 21 inches.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:21 am
by Larry B
You're putting graphics on your chine?
No, I meant to say: it will only touch the graphite part of the boat :D
Thanks for those measurements, now it's back to work. Not really ready for my trailer, but needed a break from the boat :wink: And this way I still get things that need to be done, DONE. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:11 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
I'm going to build some guide bunks that will guide the bow perfect on the trailer, they will only touch the graphic chine.
You're putting graphics on your chine? :doh:

Wheels are 14". Top of frame to top of bunks is 4.5 inches. Bunk spacing is 23" inside to inside. Bunks are 2X6.

One more measurement that might help. From the ground to the top of the bunk is 21 inches.
I'll be close to that, I think I'm going with 15" wheels. That makes the trailer only 1/2" higher, don't know why but 15" tires are less than 14" tires :doh: With that said, I'm putting my bunks 3 1/2" from top of frame to top of bunk, but with a 4" rail and without any weight on the torsion axle add another 5 1/2" and 13 1/2" for the tire, I'm right at 26.5 from ground to top of bunk, figure aprox. 2" drop with trailer weight and boat weight (maybe 3") and I'm right at aprox. 24" Not too bad, it will work :D
Thanks for all your help on building this trailer.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
Always glad to help, Larry 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:56 pm
by Steven
Hey Larry,

Are these the navigation lights you used? Any issues with the Bulbs. I really wanted LED but not having much luck finding any I like.


Sea-Dog, Flush Mount Side Lights, Starboard - Green, Port - Red, Stainless

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=86258F

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes those are the same type I used, but mine were Seafarer brand. Might be the same :doh: I've been happy with them, no problems so far 8) I think you can get a conversion kit to change them to LED

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ide+Lights

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:25 pm
by gstanfield
Mine look the same, but I bought them on ebay for $27 and they work fine.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BOW-BI-C ... 2301a6738a

I did buy some LED's but haven't put them in as I still havn't wired the lights in permanent. The only time I have used the boat at night I took a motorcycle battery and hooked the wires up to it with the battery stuffed up in the bow :D That's on my winter list of things to finish.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:58 pm
by Larry B
gstanfield wrote: That's on my winter list of things to finish.
Then shouldn't you be out there getting on it :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:24 pm
by gstanfield
I havn't completely given up on one or even two more trips fishing this year, plus I've been spending my spare time this week rebuilding a transmission in a grande marquis for a guy. The only redeeming factor to these long winters is that there is plenty of time to build boats and hotrods and whatever else, just as long as you can figure out a way to heat the shop. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:20 pm
by Steven
Thanks guys. Found a set for 22 bucks. On the way.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:56 pm
by Larry B
Just wondering C Larry, do you use a transom saver??

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
Nope. I don't trailer with the engine tilted up either, I keep it vertical.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:42 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Nope. I don't trailer with the engine tilted up either, I keep it vertical.
Thats what I was thinking. same way I do my FL14 with the engine down or vertical. Thanks

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:57 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Is it socially acceptable and morally right to as an AB23 Question on a OD 18 Thread? :oops: :oops: :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:32 pm
by Bowmovement
Larry, I was wondering if you can help me out.

Can you tell me the overall length of your OD as it sits on the trailer. I need have to keep the boat in the garage and have limited space. Thank you.

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Is it socially acceptable and morally right to as an AB23 Question on a OD 18 Thread?
Of course 8) Especially since I haven't started an AB23 thread yet :lol: Still digesting the plans.
Can you tell me the overall length of your OD as it sits on the trailer. I need have to keep the boat in the garage and have limited space.
Sure Matt, I'll measure it for you in the morning. If you're too tight for space, you could always install a swing/ folding tongue on the trailer.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:00 pm
by Bowmovement
Cracker Larry wrote:
Is it socially acceptable and morally right to as an AB23 Question on a OD 18 Thread?
Of course 8) Especially since I haven't started an AB23 thread yet :lol: Still digesting the plans.
Can you tell me the overall length of your OD as it sits on the trailer. I need have to keep the boat in the garage and have limited space.
Sure Matt, I'll measure it for you in the morning. If you're tight, you could always install a swing/ folding tongue on the trailer.
I appreciate it. I was planning on putting the folding tongue. My garage is 25' deep but I have some things in there. It can be moved around though. I was planning on an FS17 but the OD seems like a much better fishing platform.

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
This will probably not help anyone who doesn't have access to the AB23 plans, but here goes. I'm digesting the AB23 plans, again,....I'm finding myself wondering what is the best way to cut out and mount, ( on the strong backs ) the molds. Since the base line is the bottom of the sole ( top of the stringers ) for all ( well almost all ) the other dimensions it makes sense to me to raise the strong backs off the floor to a height that allows the molds to be cut out so the baseline can be directly laid up on the rails of the strong back. By that I mean the strong backs are not on the floor with vertical supports holding the molds up in the air. The thing is, the plans don't really show what the "suggested" method is. Seems to me we are left to decide for ourselves what is the best way.

To me a one piece mold is a lot less susceptible to goofs than one built up from framing or lumber and suspended above the floor on stand offs and supports. I'm thinking I want to cut the mold outlines out of something like 1/2" plywood and "hollow out" the center such that the center section is straddling the strong backs and sits on them at the base line.

My question is, how close is that to what you imagine as the set up for this boat? If it's close, how are you thinking of arriving at the right shape to cut out of the molds and the height of the strong backs to get a good working height. I realize we gotta get up under the thing, but I want to avoid having to use a ladder or scaffolding to reach the skeg area, on top of the bottom. :lol: :roll: :doh: If it's not even close, what did you have in mind?

I just re-read this, I'm quite sure you have to be drunk, or a boat builder, or maybe both,.. to understand a damn word I just typed.,, ... even with the plans in hand. :lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:56 am
by Cracker Larry
I just re-read this, I'm quite sure you have to be drunk, or a boat builder, or maybe both,.. to understand a damn word I just typed.,, ... even with the plans in hand. :lol: :lol:
Gonna have to wait till later in the day to digest this question :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:11 am
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Hmmm, thought you were a morning thinker :lol: , maybe it's the question. I wasn't under any influences when I tried to ask, It's just not easy to put into words. I shall anxiously await your thoughts. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:17 am
by Cracker Larry
Let's take the easy question first :lol:
I appreciate it. I was planning on putting the folding tongue. My garage is 25' deep but I have some things in there. It can be moved around though. I was planning on an FS17 but the OD seems like a much better fishing platform.

Matt
OK Matt, looks like you're good. From the tip of the tongue to the rear of the Stingray hydrofoil is 23' 1". The foil adds about 3" to the overall length, and remember that I also have a jack plate with a 5" setback.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:48 am
by Bowmovement
Outstanding. Thank you Larry

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:19 am
by Cracker Larry
OK Brett, I've had my morning drink so I think I'm ready to give it a try :lol:
Since the base line is the bottom of the sole ( top of the stringers ) for all ( well almost all ) the other dimensions it makes sense to me to raise the strong backs off the floor to a height that allows the molds to be cut out so the baseline can be directly laid up on the rails of the strong back.
No, the strong back frame rails should be below the anticipated sheer line. You will use vertical 2X4s attached to the strong back to mount the molds. This will put the base line roughly 30" above the strong back rails. See Hope to Floats set up on his P21...

Image

Image
By that I mean the strong backs are not on the floor with vertical supports holding the molds up in the air.
The strong back could be flat on the floor, but I will probably raise mine about a foot, mostly for leveling purposes. My concrete floor is sloped for water run off, so I will have to use some short legs to get the frame level. You can see that in the above photo also. If my floor was level, I would probably mount the strong back on casters.
the plans don't really show what the "suggested" method is. Seems to me we are left to decide for ourselves what is the best way.
My plans do :doh: In the back of the building notes section there is a 66 page guide called "How to Build Plywood-Epoxy-Glass Composite Boats. The first few pages cover the strong backs and molds in good detail. If you didn't get this, request it from Jacques. It has a lot of good info :wink:
To me a one piece mold is a lot less susceptible to goofs than one built up from framing or lumber
Yes, me too.
I'm thinking I want to cut the mold outlines out of something like 1/2" plywood and "hollow out" the center such that the center section is straddling the strong backs and sits on them at the base line.
I'll probably use OSB or MDF for the temporary molds. No need to hollow them to straddle the strong back, they will remain above the strong backs.
I realize we gotta get up under the thing, but I want to avoid having to use a ladder or scaffolding to reach the skeg area, on top of the bottom.
Yes, you will need to get under it, but this is a big boat with an 8' beam. You're going to need a scaffold or ladder to reach the center line, no matter what. Even if it was flat on the ground, you've got over 2' in side height, another foot or 2 of bottom height, then 4' of beam to the center line to stretch across. Unless you are 9' tall, plan on a scaffold :wink: A few concrete blocks and a board will do. When I helped Gil (saltponder) with his Panga 20, we had to build a scaffold to reach the keel, and it's a smaller boat than the AB23.

Does this make sense? If not, I'll make another drink and try again :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:25 am
by Cracker Larry
Outstanding. Thank you Larry

Matt
My pleasure, Matt 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:26 am
by Steven
Hey Larry,

As long as your floor is flat, the slope doesn't matter. Just use a level to mark the baseline all around the uprights. My garage slopes as well, but I still used casters. Didn't really have a choice as I have to move it to work on the transom.

Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:54 am
by Cracker Larry
I can see that working OK Steven, but my floor isn't flat. It has a crown in the center and slopes off in 3 directions. Good for draining water, not so good for building boats :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:52 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
OK, I think I figured out where some of my confusion comes from. BTW Larry, I do have the document. On page #9 of that document there is a photo showing an option to build the strong back out of steel rails. Given what passes for "Choice" Lumber these days, I kinda like the idea of using steel in the longitudinal members of the strong back. This photo shows the steel rails sitting on what appear to be metal legged saw horses about waist high off the floor. I guess I thought they were gonna leave it there to build the boat, but on second thought, they probably just had it up there to be at an easier height to put it together.

I also like the MDF idea rather than particle board (OSB) I don't care much for that stuff, even the "weather resistant" stuff I've seen on job sites lately just sucks. Seems like you sneeze at it and it's falling apart.

Also, somewhere here abouts I thought I remember someone building at waist level but it may have been a lot smaller hull. Everything you said makes sense. I've often been told my mind is a scary place and I should not go there alone, especially after dark. That's why I try to ask rather than sit too long and ponder off in the wrong direction ( yes I meant ponder ) :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:01 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Ah, yes, One more if I may? On page #9 of the build notes there is a small paragraph on Casting Deck Lockers.
Casting Deck Lockers:

If you cut large openings in the horizontal part of the casting deck to create lockers between frames A and C, add a longitudinal frame along the center line, add a sole or shelf in those lockers and eliminate the part of frame B above the sole but keep at least 3" of frame B along the sides.
An easy way to have long self draining lockers or fish boxes between A and C is to extend the sole all the way to A, cut frame B as if it was a cokpit (their spelling not mine) frame with the 3" offset from the side and the longitudinal frame along the center line.
What the H3!! ? I would like fish boxes under the sides of the casting platform. I also would like the center section of the casting deck removable to create extra lounge style seating when not fishing. We talked that one over before, but what should I take from this paragraph in trying to section that casting deck like I want to? ie. Exactly what center line is referred to when adding the longitudinal frame mentioned. Boat center line, or box center line? If I extend the sole under these lockers, and add a frame under the center line of the fish boxes above that sole, have I done what is suggested or did I miss the whole thing again? :doh: :doh: :doh:

[edit] BTW, heard anything from 12º 10N, 68º 93W ? :?

You can tell I'm locked up in the house today can't you. :oops: Minor procedure on the left rear paw has me sitting on my A$$ for the next 24- 48 hours, then I can go back to the shop and stop bothering you, I promise. :roll: :doh: :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
We talked that one over before, but what should I take from this paragraph in trying to section that casting deck like I want to
Nothing :lol: If you have a wide span it needs support. Don't get too bogged down in the details, it will all come together in due course, just like you want it. It's too large of a project to worry about casting deck frames before the strong back is built. Take it one step at a time, you'll sleep better :wink: :lol:
BTW, heard anything from 12º 10N, 68º 93W ?
No reply yet. I hope he's OK. I'm going to try to call him.

One more edit:
Given what passes for "Choice" Lumber these days, I kinda like the idea of using steel in the longitudinal members of the strong back
I like the idea of the engineered beams, whatever they are called, Micro Lams I think.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:51 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
I like the idea of the engineered beams, whatever they are called, Micro Lams I think.
oww I didn't think of those !! Wonder how expensive they are compared to some folded "Z" channel ? Humm, something to research in my convalescence. Let me get back to you on that. :)

and please do let me know if you reach him, not that I can do anything but hope he's all right, but I'd like to know.
Thanks.

[Edit] First blush, Microlam looks pricey compared to steel.

http://homerenovations.about.com/od/too ... crolam.htm
Microlam runs at least $6 per linear foot--and typically much more--
As luck would have it, I know a builder who uses this stuff, another trade name, but the same stuff. I'll ask him about it.

[Edit]

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:03 pm
by TomW
Yea but the Microlams are lighter than steel and you can work them like wood. :wink: Normally they are not that much more than steel also.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:02 pm
by Steven
C channel purlins for pole barns might be good too. Thought about that when building my strongback. Light, stiff and straight. Cheap too. Much cheaper than glue-lams. And glue-lams have a distinct crown that is placed upward when installed.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:50 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
Depending on the load and how far apart the supports are, the 2 1/2" square stock tubing used for metal barns and better carports might work too. I'm picturing giant erector set stuff.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:50 pm
by Hope2float
hey guys the Microllams i used are 71/4". They are not gluelams. Micros are vertical laminations, gluelams are are on the flat that is why they are prestressed with crown up. Micros are pin straight to about forty feet or so. The price I just paid in jersey for 22 footers was a total of about 125.00 for the pair. I would have paid maybe 50 in doug fir. the micros seem to be worth the additional 75,00 they were straight and very strong. The bow after supporting on the corners and 3 sheets of 3/4 plywood was only 3/8 sag over 22 ft.
dave

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:13 am
by topwater
I also ended up using mico-lams, saved me alot of troubles " see the begining of my build thread".
I ended up getting the 9 1/4" they didnt have the 7 1/4 " in stock.
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They worked great 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:46 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks for the info on the beams Dave and TW 8) That's what I'll use on the Abaco. I don't have the patience to fight with crooked lumber, not to save $50 :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:51 am
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
I don't have the patience to fight with crooked lumber, not to save $50 :lol:
ditto.
Where did you guys source those microlams? Do the big box store carry them or is there a better place to look for them?
Thanks, everyone for the info.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:48 pm
by topwater
I got my micro lams at a lumber yard. They get them in 48 ' long and cut them to what
you want. They are not cheap but they are very straight. I will not attempt to use a 2 by 8
again.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:59 pm
by Hope2float
Top thanks for backing me up about the micros. We use these beams on every job and they still amaze me with straightness and the unbelievable loads and spans they carry.
Dave
Ps Larry did you forget about me I am mighty thirsty :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
Ps Larry did you forget about me I am mighty thirsty
:oops: I did, my apologies. I'll try to fix that. :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:42 pm
by Cracker Larry
A boat is never finished, and neither is the trailer :lol: The winch post on my trailer has always been too short for the bow eye location. I can usually just run the boat all the way up to the stop without any winching, but some ramps and conditions require cranking the boat the last 3 feet. Even at it's highest position the winch would pull the boat down into the trailer and spare tire, which the bow rides on, making it a b@tch to load when I can't run it all the way on.

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I was at Raymond's the other day and saw a piece of square galvanized tubing in his scrap pile, exactly the size I needed, and then talked him out of it 8) Not trusting my boat with my welding, I enlisted the help of a neighbor this morning and we cut off the base and gusset from the old winch post, ground it down flat, welded the new longer post to it.

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Cut it to length with a lot of extra adjustment room, and painted it with 5 coats of cold galvanizing paint, so far :lol: It's a whole lot better now :D I put up with this piece of crap for almost 2 years, and we fixed it in 2 hours. Wondering why I did that when I've got neighbors like Fred :doh:

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:45 pm
by cape man
Much better!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:46 pm
by gstanfield
Good job, that's on my list of things to do this winter while I'm staring at the snow outside wishin I were fishin :D

George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
cape man » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:45 pm
Much better!
Yep, you did help me fight that SOB for 30 minutes in Boca last year :oops: :lol: Thanks. That's a screwed up ramp :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:17 pm
by Larry B
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Tell Fred to put a long sleeve shirt on :doh: Those welding rays are really bad for you. I've did a lot of welding shirtless in my younger days, but not any more. I've got a long sleeve flannel shirt I use just for welding.


Cut it to length with a lot of extra adjustment room, and painted it with 5 coats of cold galvanizing paint, so far :lol: It's a whole lot better now :D I put up with this piece of crap for almost 2 years, and we fixed it in 2 hours. Wondering why I did that when I've got neighbors like Fred :doh:

Image
[/quote]
Mine will look almost identical to this, only everything will be welding in place. This trailer was made just for the OD and should not need any adjusting after it's all set up just right.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's peanut time in Dixieland :D After we finished up with the trailer, we pulled a truck load of peanuts,

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picked them, cleaned them and put 3 bushels in the freezer.

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I'm done with peanuts this year :help: It's a lot of work. Glad it's my neighbors field and not mine. He's one of my best friends, he's blind and makes a good living farming and building furniture and fixing things. He's also Fred the trailer welders father. He picked 200 bushels of peanuts, by hand this week 8O Blind 8O He also raises hunting hounds and kills a few deer :lol:

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I'm done with farming for a while now myself. I ain't no farmer Going fishing tomorrow :D And the next day :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tell Fred to put a long sleeve shirt on
:lol: Fred works steel for a living, all day every day. He was lead welder for Palmer Johnson Yachts for 10 years, now at Georgia Ports doing shipyard welding. Do you see the arms on that guy 8O Melting slag rolls off of him. He weighs about 420 and hasn't worn a shirt since last March. I ain't telling him nothing :lol:

His Daddy also hasn't worn a shirt or pair of shoes since last winter. I can't tell him much either :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:13 pm
by Larry B
My apologies there Fred :help: You go ahead and weld anyway you want to. :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:29 am
by macs
I thought it must be about time for peanuts.


The winch stand looks good, I need to tweak mine a little. It telescopes up or down for adjustment so there's a margin between the outer and inner square tubing. It's good and tight but i need to shim it so it will be perfectly straight.

I love Fred's outdoor kitchen. Wish I had one.

Macs :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:35 am
by majorgator
Cracker Larry wrote:
Fred works steel for a living, all day every day. He was lead welder for Palmer Johnson Yachts for 10 years, now at Georgia Ports doing shipyard welding. Do you see the arms on that guy 8O Melting slag rolls off of him.
My father-in-law retired from the railroad as a welder. He welds, grinds, and burns with his torch without gloves and while smoking a cigar. I'm just a sissy, a spark hits me and I wanna dress down in full leather :lol:

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:45 am
by Cracker Larry
I love Fred's outdoor kitchen. Wish I had one.
That's actually Mike's kitchen, he's Freds dad. They live about 500 yards apart. Almost a community kitchen really, we all use it. It's built with cypress, Mike cut the trees, sawed them into boards and built the shed. And he's completely blind! He also processes enough food to feed half the county, and gives most of it away. They are almost completely self sufficient, he only goes to the store for salt, sugar, flour and beer. Mainly beer.

This is Mike, without the shirt..

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Behind the stove and fridge wall we've got a skinning and cleaning stall, made with fiberglass panels and concrete for easy wash down, and drainage to the field.

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Mike has just canned 100 quarts of snap beans, butchered a hog, and now he's boning meat for sausage. All in the same day. Neighbors who want to get fed pitch in, of course.

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This is Buck, another neighbor. He's just waiting on some food to get done. He don't eat too good :lol:

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Look at those big pots, they are also home made, built right there under that shed 8)

Raining today and I''m taking a break from boat work. Will probably go to Mikes and see what's cooking :D

Speaking of cooking outdoors, Peter sent me this last night of his outdoor kitchen 8) Doesn't that suckling look good :D

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:59 am
by Dougster
Wow!! Great pics and characters. My neighbor's a cowboy, and he's some, but those guys sure got plenty of can do. Cut trees, saw lumber, build shed, farm, butcher, and with his eyes closed. I get a splinter and it's all I can do to keep from runnin' to the house :lol: Thanks for sharing.

Tryin' to build a boat Dougster

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:12 pm
by macs
That's some good eatin' right there.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yessir, there is a lot of good eating in this neighborhood :D

I'm moving a discussion from the Sailboat forum thread to here:
Would you like to hear a sea story about the USCG sinking and killing our sailboat "Sunshine" ?
Of course we would.
OK, but this is the tech support area, probably not the place. I'll post it on my OD18 thread.
But that's the boat you spent 400+ days on with your beloved wife! It can't be gone, after all it went through!
Yep that was her, she was designed well and built tough and went a many a mile, including a lot of places she shouldn't have. We sailed her thousands of miles in every kind of weather that came our way, so I had a lot of confidence in her. With the hatches closed and the boards in, she shed water like a duck. She had a very small cockpit with high coamings and big scuppers, and a high bridge deck that blocked water into the cabin, even if the cockpit was flooded. Which it was from time to time, we'd plug the scuppers and use it for a bath tub :lol: She wasn't big, but she could roll completely over and come up dry. If the hatches were shut. A few pics for context, so you can see the design..most of you have seen these before..

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She had a cast iron swing keel that weighed about 800 pounds. That's what she's sitting on on here. Just above the oysters..

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So, this is the story of the last voyage of Sunshine. The day after Christmas, 1980. Dori and I had completed our sabbatical and bought a house on Wilmington Island. My Uncle Jimmy was in town from Atlanta and he loved to sail. He wasn't very good at it, but he loved it and had accompanied me on a few sailboat deliveries. He's about 30 years older than me. I called my 2 best friends and life long boating companions, John and Bill. Both very experienced in all weather and any boats, including this one. A strong cold front had passed the night before and it was cold with a NW wind blowing 30-40. Perfect sailing for us, nothing bores me more than sailing in 10 kts. of hot wind. The cold air is much denser and you get as lot more lift.

The 4 of us and our big black dog Sebastion left Sail Harbor Marina in Turners Creek about 0800. The temp was barely above freezing and I mentioned it was blowing pretty good. We sailed out the creek and into Wilmington River, turned left and headed for the ocean. The wind was blowing straight down the river so we were broad reaching with a reefed main and small jib, hauling ass :lol: There might have been some drinking going on. It's about a 15 mile run out to the ocean, and somewhere along the way John wanted to put up the spinnaker, so I told him to go for it. He and Bill rigged it up, and when we popped her open the boat lifted about a foot and took off like a rocket. I'd never seen her go this fast, only got her planing a few times in the past. We got knocked down 3 or 4 times, but it was a heck of a ride :!: Didn't take us long to get into the sound. There the waves got a lot bigger so we had to douse the chute. We ran on out through the inlet where it was breaking about 8-10 feet on the bar, then got past the break and into deeper water, where Jimmy could make some more drinks.

We turned northeast and paralleled the coast about 3 miles out, and had a few hours of fantastic sailing, beam reaching towards Hilton Head in a 6' cross sea. By early afternoon we were off Tybee Island, and decided we better turn around if we were going to make it home before midnight. We turned back south and set a course for the Wassaw sea buoy, still beam reaching, still hauling @ss. Somebody probably made some more drinks. John and Jimmy wanted to put the chute back up, the Captain voted against it.

Hey, I can't tell a story without some background :lol:

continued......

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:47 pm
by macs
I can't wait to hear the rest of this one.

Hey CL, I copied all of the Miss Jimmy story when you posted it a while back and saved it on word. It's good reading. If you like I'll repost it hear after you finish this one, If you want me to. Some of the new builders may have never read it. I named it Daufuskie Island by Cracker Larry, wasn't copy righted was it 8O

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
So, we made a fast reach back down the coast to the mouth of Wassaw sound, but then had to sail directly to windward to follow the narrow channel between the bars to get inside. The tide was outgoing like a SOB, being pushed out by the NW gale, and between the current, the wind and the waves, we weren't making much progress. None actually. This sound is about 1.5 miles wide across the mouth, but there is only a couple hundred yards that are deep enough for this boat, and breaking waves on all sides. We made about a dozen tacks, and compass bearings off the headlands told us that we were slowly backing up. No GPS back then. With a boat speed of almost 10 kts, we were actually sailing backwards and couldn't get enough momentum to get through the break. Oh well, conference time, no big deal.

After conferring, everyone concluded that there was no point in fighting a losing battle, and that it was time to try to make a dry sandwich and get a cigarette lit if possible, and maybe another drink. Get out of the break, wait it out, the tide will turn and the wind will change, then we'll go home. Can't fight mother nature. So we turned back to the SE and deeper water and moved down off Wassaw Island to get in the lee of the island if possible. We had to stay about 3 miles out because of the bars, so lee is relative, but a 3 mile fetch is better than a 20 mile fetch. Seas were about 4-6 in front of the island, with an occasional big one that broke over the boat. I moved the boat down about a mile and we threw out the big anchor. Took a couple of bearings, I set the riding sail, tied the tiller and we all went in the cabin. This entire day all hatches were closed and latched, all companionway boards in, except when we needed something, then only opened for an instant. Don't want a knock down with that hatch open 8O So we all went inside, closed her up tight, Jimmy made drinks, Bill made sandwiches, John broke out a deck of cards and we ate, drank, and played poker for a couple of hours. There was of course a lot of motion, and a heck of a lot of noise in the cabin. Between the waves breaking and the wind howling and the rigging rattling and the boom banging, well it was real noisy. But we were perfectly safe and could have stayed there a month if we needed to.

continued.... we're almost to the good part

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
We'd played cards a couple 3 hours, finished a bottle, Jimmy went to his duffel and brought out another, the wind hadn't let up a knot, so we just sat there telling stories and playing cards and listening to the ocean scream, then we heard a strange sound, over all the other sounds. Whop, whop whop whop whop, whop, whatinells that? I knew that sound, just couldn't place it, it hit Bill first, chopper. Then a siren over the din. Dang. I slid the hatch open and stuck my head out. There was a CG chopper hovering right over our masthead, and a fool hanging out the door with a big chalkboard. It said "Are You OK?" I made the international signal for OK with my arms, gave them a wave, and went back down, slamming the hatch before the next wave hit. The sun and the temp were both going down, getting cold out there. I turned on my anchor lights.

Whop, whop,whop, siren again :doh: I stick my head back out. Fool with chalkboard has now wrote "Do You Need Assistance?" I make the international sign for NO, and return below.

Whop, whop,whop, siren again. I open the hatch again, now I read "You are in DANGER!!" I again say no, and return below. I'll be in danger if I leave this hatch open.

One more time, whop, whop whop, siren. I go out again, take wave in cabin, great. Fool in chopper now wants to know if I have VHF :doh: Of course I do, no need to turn it on, can't hear it anyway, so I tell him no. And I go below.

Siren again. We ignore it and Jimmy pours a round of drinks, John deals the cards. More siren, more whopping, Finally stick my head out again, take another wave, I'm not happy. Fool with sign tells me "Cutter has been Dispatched! Standby!" I give him the international signal for NO again. Then the international signal for rolling tarpon. Then go back inside and close the hatch. I'm wet and cold now. A couple of us could be considered drunk, but I lost my buzz with the last wave.

continued..

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:03 pm
by FloatingTurtle
I can't stand the suspens...

What are the universal gestures for Yes, No and Go away I don't need your help?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:17 pm
by Larry B
FloatingTurtle wrote:I can't stand the suspens...

What are the universal gestures for Yes, No and Go away I don't need your help?
I'm thinkin maybe the one finger salute is universal and all know it :D :D :D :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:40 pm
by Doc_Dyer
CL,
It's been 5 hours dont you think you have kept us waiting long enough? :?:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:12 am
by ks8
Doc_Dyer wrote:CL,
It's been 5 hours dont you think you have kept us waiting long enough? :?:
No. :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:50 am
by Doc_Dyer
apparently he wishes to torment us a little longer :roll:
:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:08 am
by gstanfield
Maybe he was about to reveal a secret and the feds sent out a team to silence him :wink:

That or he got busy with something. I hope you're OK out there Larry. 8)

George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:41 am
by ks8
Or he's looking for the old phoos and the USCG report, so he can scan them in and post them with the conclusion. :?: :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:43 am
by Cracker Larry
Patience :lol: We had some company show up and stay late. Grilled some of Richards salmon, had a few drinks, played some cards. Man that fresh wild salmon sure is good :!: The best I've ever had.

OK, back to where we left off. The CG helicopter promised us a tow and ordered us to stay put, then it flew off into the sunset. We went back to playing cards, Jimmy passed out.

John and I considered moving, but then decided we'd just refuse the tow and spend the night where we were, and make a leisurely sail home in the morning. It was not to be :(

Sure enough, about 45 minutes later we hear another siren over the roar. I stick my head out and there is a big steel cutter pulling up to our starboard side. The wave action was fierce, and they tried to put a boarding officer on the boat, didn't work out, but they did manage to smash my rubrail pretty good. I figured it was time for some VHF, so finally turned it on and gave them a call. They tell me they are going to maneuver in front of us and throw us a line. I told them negative, the water in front of us wasn't deep enough for them. I had pulled up tight to the bar and dropped anchor in 3 feet of water, then dropped back 300' which put us in about 8 feet of water at low tide. I assured them we were OK and we didn't need a tow. They ignored me and motored up in front of me, where they promptly ran aground. The captain panicked and threw the cutter in full reverse, and that's when their prop fouled my anchor line. The big steel boat was backing down straight at my bow, and their prop was winching us straight into their stern at the same time and we collided with a big crash that shattered my bow and ripped the pulpit completely off the boat. The helmsman kept full reverse on the cutter and our anchor line parted.

So we are now drifting downwind with a hole in the bow, and the cutter is just to windward of us with a fouled prop, being blown down on top of us, and we get some more serious smashing.

continued...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:26 am
by Cracker Larry
At some point when we were bashing together a boarding officer jumps on our boat, tells us to remain calm, and starts giving orders. I tell him to pound sand and John hoists our mainsail and we get some control of the boat again and put some space between us and our rescuers. I was one mad, ornery rescuee by this time. The cutter has to put a diver in the water to clear their prop and in the meantime our boarder is trying to get name rank and serial numbers from some obviously intoxicated sailors. Jimmy is still passed out. The kid from Kansas tells me I'm too impaired to operate the vessel and he is taking command. I tell him a few other things, and he threatens to arrest and handcuff me, and I threaten to throw him overboard if he tried.

It takes the cutter crew a half hour or so to get their wheels cleared, and here they come again. I ask the kid to please get back on his boat, go home and leave us alone. He says No Sir, we are towing you to safety. I told him we were perfectly safe before he got there, no dice, no sense of humor at all. The cutter approaches from a safe distance to leeward this time and throws us a heaving line which I refuse to catch. The kansas kid got the line and pulled over a steel hawser, great, and shackles it to the base of my mast. I protest about that too, I wanted it tied to the bow cleats, he put it on the mast anyway, and off we go. Without the pulpit to fairlead the hawser, the boat was very unstable being pulled by the mast base.

The cutter crew must be late to dinner and they take off at about 20 knots, pulling my little boat through 6' seas. We'd fly over about 2 waves then go through the next one like a submarine. The hole in the bow was taking in huge amounts of water every time it buried, and for the first time that day we had to turn on the pumps. She had 2 Rule 3000 pumps, one under the V berth and one under the cockpit, so it was easy keeping up with the water. The kansas kid was terrified and finally talked the cutter into slowing down a little, but still WAY too fast for a sailboat :help: We were like a slalom water skier, zipping out to one side until the line came tight, then getting snatched back across the wake to the other side, and back again. I told the kid we would break up and sink if they didn't slow down to 8 kt's, and he finally believed me on something and we got down to a reasonable speed. Then he ordered me into the cabin with the rest of my crew. OK

Being in safe hands, we made a drink and went back to card playing. Jimmy was still out :lol:

Continued...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
After about an hour of towing, we were back in the river in fairly sheltered water and it was looking like we might actually get home without sinking. How could they screw this up now you ask?

So we're still playing cards and there comes a beating on my closed hatch. Let me in! I open up to the kansas kid, who's covered in ice. I notice he's got the tiller tied. He climbs in and I tell him to pull the hatch closed behind him, and he does. Then he tries to complete all his forms and write me a bunch of tickets for operating a vessel while intoxicated and threatening a federal officer and a lot of other things. His fingers were so cold he couldn't write so I filled out his forms for him, but wouldn't sign any of them.

Jimmy finally wakes up and sees the kid, and in typical Jimmy fashion says "Howdy do? Where in hell did you come from? Would you like a drink? SIR, I'm on duty and you've had enough to drink. Jimmy takes another drink, says FY, and goes back to sleep. We had about another hour to the dock so I tried some conversation. Where ya from? Kansas. How long have you been in the CG? Graduated from the Academy 2 weeks ago sir. How'd I know that :doh: How long has the skipper of the cutter been in the CG? He was in my graduating class, Sir. How'd I know that :doh:

He took inventory of all my safety gear and head discharge placards, and that's when he found my Stoner which sent him into orbit and had him reaching for his .45. John told him that if we were going to shoot him we would have done it hours ago. So he goes to writing up some more charges. Then he get's a radio call from the cutter, telling him they got another call and are dropping us off at the Sheraton dock, instead of Sail Harbor. Fine with us, the sooner the better.

continued....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
OK, last chapter, I think :lol:

I'm looking out the window and see the Sheraton dock coming up on our starboard side. Thank goodness! It was after midnight, been a long day and we were ready to get dry and warm :D The boat was trashed and I was sick about that, and a little concerned what Mrs. Cracker would say about her boat, but we would deal with that tomorrow. Little did I know, this day wasn't quite over :?

I feel the tow line go slack, then I feel the boat heel to port and I get a real bad feeling. I open the hatch to see what's happening. The cutter is making a hard 180 degree turn to port, the towing hawser is slack, the Kansas kid is standing on the port side deck holding on to the port shrouds, daydreaming. The tiller is still tied. I saw in my mind what was to follow. Dammit man :!:

I scream at him to untie the tiller and turn the boat to port. He looks at me like I've got 3 eyes or something. I scream again, turn the boat now or we'll capsize. He's locked in place and does nothing. I jump out the hatch, beat on the deck and holler for everybody to get out of the cabin, now. The dog follows me out, John follows the dog, I'm heading for the tiller as fast as I can. Not fast enough. The tow line comes tight on the mast and snatches the boat at a 90 degree angle. Things happened fast after that.

The boat, being pulled directly sideways by the mast heels hard over to port. The cutter, not paying attention keeps on pulling. The boat lays flat on her port side and is being drug sideways through the water. When the boat heeled, the towline slid up the mast to the spreaders, so now we are being towed sideways by the spreaders, until they both break, and the tow line slides to the mast head. Now we're being drug sideways by the mast head, and water is pouring in through the open hatch. Bill and Jimmy were still in the cabin. John, the dog and I had all climbed to the high side, the kansas kid was clinging to and climbing the port shrouds on the low side, nothing visible but his head above the water, and he was making the heeling even worse. His eyes were like dinner plates, the situation was more than he could process. He told us again to remain calm, that's all he knew to do :doh: John reached down and grabbed him and threw him up on the high side. We're still being drug sideways, the cabin is now completely flooded and I figure we're going down. The boat rolled past 90 degrees, at which point the 800 pound cast iron swing keel swung down into the hull and it sounded and felt like a cannon shot hit the boat. I knew she was done then. Bill's head comes out of the cabin, he gets a breath, goes back in, and comes out with my uncle over his shoulder. He had gotten wedged under the table when the boat rolled over, and he was already disoriented from a couple of brandy drinks. John and I pull Jimmy up on the the high side. Bill follows and starts CPR on Jimmy.

At this point what was left of the rigging couldn't stand the strain and it all let go. The tow line went over the mast head and we were free from our tormentors. The boat tried to right, and the mast fell down on the deck, the boom hit Kansas hard and knocked him into the water. I jumped in and got a grip on him, the dog jumped in to save me, and together we pulled him back to the boat. John helps drag us up. Kansas is bleeding out his head pretty good, but he seems OK other than terrified, screw him, I went to check on Jimmy, but Bill had got him breathing and he was OK. Quick head count, 5 people and a dog, everybody breathing 8) I told Bill not to turn loose of Jimmy, John and I went to work shedding the mast. It was only attached by the pivot pin on the tabernacle and a clevis. We got it loose and pushed it overboard. Cut the sheets and we were clear. Without the mast, the boat righted level and completely awash. I figure the only reason it was still floating was because of a 25 gallon empty water tank in the bow and an 18 gallon empty gas tank under the cockpit.

One more continuation, sorry...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
There we were, 300' from the dock, completely awash. Amazing the things that can happen in 60 seconds :doh: The wind is still blowing 30 or better and I figured the boat would sink at any moment. I told Bill not to let go of Jimmy, told John to stay with the dog and I'd take care of Kansas. Kansas says he was in still in charge of this boat and before I could explain things to him, John picked him up and threw him back in the river.

While this was going on the cutter finally figured out they had a problem, as in they'd sunk their tow. So they made a U turn and come blasting back to us at full throttle, they pulled up about the same time Kansas was hitting the water for the third time, yanked back the throttles and completely buried us with their wake. Sunshine rolled 360 degrees in the wash, but amazingly she came back up again slow and settled with her decks just under water and the cabin top slightly above. I took another roll call, Bill had Jimmy, John had the dog and I got a grip on Kansas. I wasn't pleased with him, but I figured killing him wasn't a good idea either. He appeared to be in shock so I pulled him towards the stopped cutter and they threw us a life ring. I clipped him to their line and left him, and I swam back to the boat.

Everybody was back inside the flooded cockpit and John was going through the lockers organizing lines. We were drifting with an incoming tide and an opposing wind, and moving slowly away from the shore and docks. He already had a plan working and was rigging lines. He and I don't have to talk much when we're on a boat, we know what each other is thinking. He asks, You want to swim, or do you want me to, I'm more rested than you. You go, and take the dog I agreed.

He took off for shore with a light line and managed to reach the dock before running out of rope. He tied it off to a cleat, gave me a loud whistle then pulled himself quickly back to the boat along the line. While he was making his swim, the cutter idled back up and wanted us to abandon ship. By this point I was done with the USCG. I told them we had a dock line secured and we would be OK. They couldn't believe that, but we did. I totally refused any further assistance, or to even talk to them further, so they sat there with their spotlights on and watched us.

We rigged a heavy line, and again John pulled himself across to the dock and secured the heavy line. Then I put Bill and my uncle in the water with their harnesses snapped to the big line, and they quickly pulled themselves to the dock. I rigged another line and secured it to the boat, then clipped on the safety line and pulled myself to the dock. Everybody on the dock and 3 lines secured. Long lines, but secure :D The four of us managed to slowly pull the boat up alongside the dock and tie one side of it up.

It's about 1 o'clock in the morning now. After further conversation with the boys from Kansas, we go up to the hotel and tell the manager our plight. He gives us 2 rooms for hot showers. We called wives to bring dry clothes, and I called my charter fishing partner and asked her to bring the big boat, some fuel bladders and a gas powered pump to the Sheraton ASAP. She doesn't even ask why, she asks what else we need. Come-a-longs I say. And some sandwiches.

An hour or so later we are relatively warm and dry and we've got a 35' boat tied along side us with a lady who knows how to run it at the helm. We got it winched up on both sides between Miss Judy and the dock, and we've got 2 gas pumps running. By sunrise we had stripped everything out of her we could carry, and had her floating high. We shut down the pumps to see how she looked, and water was pouring in all along the bottom where the swing keel had smashed it. At 0700 I called the Yacht Works and asked them to lower the travel-lift, we were bringing in a sinker. We fired back up the pumps, inflated 2 air bags in her, and towed her a couple miles to the yard. They had the straps down when we got there and Judy expertly used her big T-Craft like a tug and eased us into the lift slip. She should give lessons to the CG :idea:

Anyway, they hauled us out and it didn't take but a minute to see that Sunshine was a total loss :cry: Her bottom was crushed and shattered for at least 8' long and 3' wide. About 3' of bow was almost completely torn off. Every chain plate and the hull around them were damaged, the cabin top around the mast base was shattered, bulkheads were pulled loose from the hull. We had already lost all the rigging, mast, boom, 2 sails, spinnaker pole, anchor...

And that was the last voyage of Sunshine. I'll follow up with a few morals I learned from this experience. I'm tired of typing now.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:31 pm
by Tiwaz
Wow......don't know what else to say.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:53 pm
by msujmccorm
I want to know who had to tell Mrs. Cracker 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:11 pm
by ks8
Did they send you a bill? Did you send them a bill? :?

There's a MacGregor 25 just down the road from me for sale, $6,000, maybe negotiable, with trailer, that looks in pretty good shape... the last one I looked at, the owners should have been embarassed to offer it for sale, both boat and trailer, but this one doesn't look bad at all. Haven't dared a detailed look yet, as it is out of budget right now, but tempting. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
There's a MacGregor 25 just down the road from me for sale, $6,000, maybe negotiable,
Don't buy it, please, it's junk, and that's way too much money in this market for a disposable boat :wink: We could find a good 25 for less money than that. If you've got to make an offer, $1,200.
Did they send you a bill? Did you send them a bill?
That's another long story in itself, but no and yes :lol: We had a mutual agreement not to discuss the settlements, so I'll still honor that, but they made it right in the end. I'll also say that I've have many dealings with the USCG, and most of them were professional and competent. I appreciate and respect the USCG, just not that particular crew. Nobody can help what they don't know, and their determination was commendable even if their abilities were lacking.

Moral 1: One never knows what the day might bring :doh: Eat your Wheaties and put on your big boy pants when you leave home, you might need them before the day is over.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:10 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Amazing story. There's a law in the universe of Murphy's law that says something like that: "if you think you seen the worst, hold on to your socks!" This law seems to fit like a glove to this story.

Real sorry about the loss of Sunshine. Especially in such circumstances :cry:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:13 pm
by ks8
Cracker Larry wrote:... they made it right in the end. I'll also say that I've have many dealings with the USCG, and most of them were professional and competent. I appreciate and respect the USCG, just not that particular crew. Nobody can help what they don't know, and their determination was commendable even if their abilities were lacking
Excellent closer. Also sounds like Sunshine had a very full life. May she rest in having enriched skipper(s) and crew(s) throughout all her adventures. Her final voyage, and she still brought you all back, mostly alive, despite... well... you've already covered that. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:43 am
by chicagoross
Another great story, CL! Thanks! I think we could cut and paste a few of these from the past couple years together and publish "The Life and Times of Cracker Larry"...I'm sure there's still a few more good ones to come!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:38 am
by Cracker Larry
I've been working on a book for years, actually a couple of them. Maybe one day I'll finish them.
There's a law in the universe of Murphy's law that says something like that: "if you think you seen the worst, hold on to your socks!" This law seems to fit like a glove to this story.
Very true. It also proven statistically in thousands of investigations involving boating and aircraft accidents. It's almost never one event that causes a disaster, it is a chain of little events, each one minor in itself but when all put together causes the situation to escalate beyond control. Training and experience teaches us to break the chain, don't roll with the flow. You have to get pro-active while you still have some control of the situation.

Moral 2: When things start going to hell, they go to hell quickly.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:57 am
by macs
That's a hell of a story CL. Glad every body survived, including Kansas, 8O sorry about the boat.

You definitely need to write a book.

Macs

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:09 am
by cape man
Then the international signal for rolling tarpon.
I'll let my sister know you used her material... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Great story.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:13 am
by Cracker Larry
I'll let my sister know you used her material... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I thought you would catch that :lol: :lol:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:16 am
by topwater
Great story CL, cant wait to meet you in person.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:31 pm
by majorgator
Just took the time to read that. WOW 8O 8O Although you're not going to discuss the "settlement" I can probably safely assume the following:
1. You didn't have to pay those tickets or face any punishment
2. Kansas boy was very thankful that you guys saved his life

Maybe we'll hear more later :wink: :wink:

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:05 am
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
8O Wow!! 8O

I should very much like to sit with a tape recorder, a laptop, and a few bottles of (name your poison) with you, & Mrs. Cracker somewhere warm for about a week. We'd get that book(s) published. You could finance your AB23 with the royalties and I'd have a great collection of stories to tell my grand kids some day. Entertaining in the least, captivating at par, and certainly mostly true!! You don't by chance have a bit of Irish in you somewhere do you? You've obviously kissed the stone at Blarney! :) :wink: Keep em coming CL they surely best some of the other stuff we've been reading around here lately. Good stuff. :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:52 am
by wegcagle
What a STORY :!: I'm still trying to figure out how the Kansas kid was gonna justify those tickets. Field sobriety test :?: :lol: :lol: That would've been a tough one to sell in court. Glad you all made it out okay. Sounds like more than just a good boat. Someone somewhere said it wasn't your time. 8 ft hole in the bottom, 3 feet of bow ripped off, 20 knots in a sail boat, some moron's massive wake, a solid attempt to pull you over sideways, and she was still upright 8O

Will

PS I think what we all want to know is did you spill your drink? :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:09 pm
by mecreature
I am glad I stumbled in on this one..

Good story Larry.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
PS I think what we all want to know is did you spill your drink?
Surely you jest :lol: I only do that on flat, stable surfaces. Shut up, Bradley, don't say a word :lol: I think Doc Dyer has witnessed every drink I've spilled in the last 2 years :wink:

I should very much like to sit with a tape recorder, a laptop,
No tapes, no cameras, no notebooks, no evidence :lol: George is leaving his badge home when he comes to Boca Grande, or I'll throw it in the river too.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:02 pm
by gstanfield
No tapes, no cameras, no notebooks, no evidence George is leaving his badge home when he comes to Boca Grande, or I'll throw it in the river too.
You damn right I'll leave it at home. I've not had a vacation in quite some time and I'll be danged if I'm gonna work while I'm there. I plan on staying drunk a fair portion of the time and hopefully I only remember about half the weekend anyway :D

george

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:49 am
by cape man
I plan on staying drunk a fair portion of the time and hopefully I only remember about half the weekend anyway
You can count on us to help you out there if that's your intent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :help: :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:34 am
by Cracker Larry
Can police officers drink moonshine :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:21 am
by gstanfield
You darn right they can :D It's been a while since I had any, used to steal it from my uncle's cabin when I was a teenager. He made some pretty good stuff :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:08 pm
by ThistleDewDayDreamin
It's been my experience that police officers, and judges have the best moonshine, ....,.... grass ....,... weapons, ..... , ..... cars.,.... and friends. :lol: Most are politely disinclined to share though :x :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re:

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:08 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
When it was done, we quickly attached it at the bow, tight up to the pattern with 3 screws, then stretched it like a banjo string. Got some clamps and screws in the stern to keep it stretched. Bedded it with plenty of 5200, and drilled and installed all the screws. It came out great we think :D

Image
C Larry, I'm getting ready to get things together and wanted to know how much 5200 I would need for the rub rail? I'm going to use Black so it will blend into the rail. I was thinking two 10oz tubes would do, but thought I'd ask just to be sure.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
I used one standard caulking tube, probably less than a whole tube.

Hint, don't try to fool with this on a cold day if you can help it. The warmer the better. You will need an extra pair of hands too. Have you painted the hull already?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:43 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:I used one standard caulking tube, probably less than a whole tube.

Hint, don't try to fool with this on a cold day if you can help it. The warmer the better. You will need an extra pair of hands too. Have you painted the hull already?
Thanks, I've got a tube of White but don't want to use it if it might show between the black and yeller. So I'll just buy one tube.
Did you run a bead the full lenght of the rail? or just on the screws? I was thinking the whole rail to hold it against the hull :doh:
I wish the hull was painted, but no it isn't, I'm still doing some fairing but getting very close with it and then I'll primer it. Then want to let it sit for a couple weeks to cure good. Also the wife put a dent in my boat money so probably won't be able to buy paint till after the first of the year. I already have my primer.
We usually get some nice 70 degree days with the sun shining. Was going to pull the boat into the sun and let the rail heat up with the sun. Anything black will heat up past the point of touching it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:11 pm
by majorgator
Another trick is to coil the rub rail into a large wash tub and add nearly boiling water to it. Let it sit there until you can touch the water without getting burned, then you're good.

Every now and then I catch an episode of Ship Shape TV (doubt you get that out in Arizona) and good 'ole John Greviskis was installing a rub rail. He started from one side of the bow, then worked his way around each side. I've only ever installed them starting on a stern corner, but there must be some reason why he did it that way :doh:

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
Did you run a bead the full lenght of the rail? or just on the screws? I was thinking the whole rail to hold it against the hull :doh:
Full length, extra on each screw :wink: I used a rub rail suitable for a 40' boat :lol: so didn't worry about squeeze out. What squeezes out the screw holes gets covered by the insert.

Image

Image
Another trick is to coil the rub rail into a large wash tub and add nearly boiling water to it. Let it sit there until you can touch the water without getting burned, then you're good.
Seth, it was cold when Dori and I did ours. We coiled the rub rail into a wash tub full of water and put it on a big propane burner and brought it barely to a boil, then turned it off. Wore gloves! Half the boat at a time. I call this pic Rub Rail soup :lol:

Image

This was the trick, but you have to work fast before it cools off. You want to be able to stretch it really tight while it's warm and secure it's position. It's similar to wrestling a pig in the mud and it was about the only thing I needed help with in the entire build. We also had to boil and lube the insert to get it set in place, along with a rubber mallet. It cools off a lot faster than the rail and it was a PITA also.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:01 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
Did you run a bead the full lenght of the rail? or just on the screws? I was thinking the whole rail to hold it against the hull :doh:
Full length, extra on each screw :wink: I used a rub rail suitable for a 40' boat :lol: so didn't worry about squeeze out. What squeezes out the screw holes gets covered by the insert.
C Larry, I'm using the same rub rail you used. In looking at the picture I guess it's large enough to just put a bead down the center and It probably wouldn't squeeze out. In that case I'll probably just use the white 5200 I have instead of buying more.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Anything that squeezes out just wipe off with mineral spirits before it dries. It's wide enough that you won't get much, but it's easy to clean off, BEFORE it cures :lol:

Looking at these rub rail pics again makes me say dang, that Sterling paint is some really good stuff :!: Because I'm sure not a very good painter :lol:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:47 pm
by Larry B
CLarry, I received my rub rail today :D I know I'm not ready to install it, but I have a question? It came with 1 1/4" screws, rub rail is about 1/4" and that leaves 1" of screw. I was thinking that might be too long? Rub rail is 3/4" and then 1/4" side panel, if it pulled in enough it would protrude to the inside and create a point that could leak. Did you use the 1 1/4" or did you buy smaller? I'm thinking to order some 1" screws just to be safe. But curious as to what you did?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Did you use the 1 1/4" or did you buy smaller? I'm thinking to order some 1" screws just to be safe. But curious as to what you did?
Larry, I reached the same conclusion, they were too long. I used 1" screws. Not only are they too long, but they have a tiny phillips head that are almost impossible to drive :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:59 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
Did you use the 1 1/4" or did you buy smaller? I'm thinking to order some 1" screws just to be safe. But curious as to what you did?
Larry, I reached the same conclusion, they were too long. I used 1" screws. Not only are they too long, but they have a tiny phillips head that are almost impossible to drive :help:
CLarry, I ain't a Cracker but we sure think alike sometimes :wink: Did you stay with the #8 or move up to #10 screws? I'm thinking #8 should be fine??

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think I used #8, but I wouldn't swear to my memory being accurate on that. Once the 5200 drys you could take the screws out if you wanted to :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:38 pm
by cottontop
Larry B, My rubrail is much the same as your's and Cracker's. I did mine on a warm day and the sun heated it up nicely. My wife and I had to wear some cotton gloves to keep from getting burned. I don't remember why, but I bought the longer material and started from the front after folding it in about half. It went on fairly easy with my helper. John

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:34 am
by Larry B
Cottontop, Yes by the time I'm ready to put it on the weather will be a lot warmer. won't take long in the Arizona sun to heat it up. I'm going to start in the middle also. After reading CLarrys info on the rubrail I sanded the rubrail at the bow to hopefully accept the rubrail without cutting it. I've heated up a piece of it and I'm pretty sure it will work. We'll see. :doh: I've got to rig something to do this by myself with a come-a-long or something of that nature. I know my wife won't be able to hold it while I put the screws in. I've got some ideas that should work :wink: More info to follow in my thread

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:25 pm
by Larry B
CLarry, getting my thoughts together here. The end caps for the rubrail really suck. There too big and ugly. I was looking at your pictures and noticed you didn't have anything on the ends? Is this how you left it? or did you find something better for the caps?
I'm thinking to maybe just cut the caps down so they are a perfect fit and use black 5200 or just hot glue them to the ends. I think that might look good :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
The end caps really suck. I didn't use them at all, I just cut the rail flush with the transom cut out and let it ride. It looks fine. Looks better than the end caps anyway :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:08 pm
by Steven
Hey Larry,

Question on your thru hull and valve. The thru hull is NPS and the valves are NPT. Any conerns with the mismatch? What sealant did you use on the threads?

Thanks,
Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
There is not a miss-match. NPS refers to pipe size, not the thread. NPT is the thread type on both fittings and you can screw them together by hand until the last turn or 2. I used Teflon tape to seal the threads.
Nominal Pipe Size
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nominal Pipe Size (NPS) is a North American set of standard sizes for pipes used for high or low pressures and temperatures.[1] Pipe size is specified with two non-dimensional numbers: a nominal pipe size (NPS) for diameter based on inches, and a schedule (Sched. or Sch.) for wall thickness. NPS is often incorrectly called National Pipe Size, due to confusion with national pipe thread (NPT). The European designation equivalent to NPS is DN (diamètre nominal/nominal diameter), in which sizes are measured in millimetres.[2] The term NB (nominal bore) is also frequently used interchangeably with NPS
National pipe thread
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

National Pipe Thread Tapered Thread (NPT) is a U.S. standard for tapered threads used on threaded pipes and fittings. The taper rate for all NPT threads is 1⁄16 (¾ inch per foot) measured by the change of diameter (of the pipe thread) over distance. The taper divided by a center line yields an angle 1° 47' 24" or 1.7899° as measured from the center axis.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:37 pm
by Steven
I did some reading after asking you the question. The thread type on the thru hull is NPS. The thread type on the Bronze valve is NPT. One is straight, One is tapered. The Marelon valve is tapered too, but isn't labled as NPT. I went by West Marine today and tested threading the Marelon valve on the bronze thru hull, and then tested threading on a bronze valve. I found the Marelon threaded on nicely just as you described. The bronze valve didn't go on more than a couple of turns. I read somwhere there is a hybrid type thread that will work well with both. It seems the Marelon valves use that. I wouldn't be comfortable with the way the bronze threaded on, but the Marelon seems perfect. So, I'll use tape like you did. Obviously works well. :)

Thanks as always,
Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:23 am
by Prarie Dog
Wanted to let you guys know about a product that has been out for a while. Read about it in a GM TSB, they reccomend it for use on head bolts in blocks that have through holes into the water jacket. It is a pipe dope that has teflon in it. I used it on a couple of head gasket jobs then expanded using it on air fittings etc. It is now the only thing I use on a fitting that needs to be sealed. Understand it was developed for steam applications. Killer stuff. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:38 pm
by Steven
Now if we just knew the name of this killer product. :)

Would it be good for fuel fitting threads?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:46 pm
by Prarie Dog
Steven, I have a bottle of it at the shop in town, will let you know tomorrow what it's called. I really miss my memory, I think :?: :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:53 pm
by Prarie Dog
Steven, That sealer is called Rectorseal T+2, the thing I like about it is you can coat the threads and it performs kinda like an anti seize when making up the connection and later on when you take it apart it wont be corroded and it will come apart easy. I think Home Depot handles Rectorseal but I don't know if they have T+2, mine came from a plumbing supply house. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:29 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
We're just joining marelon to silicon bronze, corrosion won't be an issue with this fitting :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:51 pm
by Larry B
C Larry, just wondering if you had to pull the tape after each coat?
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
No,I left it on the entire time. The Sterling is so thin that even several coats didn't cause a problem. Use the best tape you can buy and burnish the edges with the back of a spoon or similar. The Frog Tape brand is some really good stuff.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:21 pm
by Larry B
C Larry, just wondering where you got your wire loom to encase your cables and fuel line? Also the size you used?

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:59 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry, I got it from the same dealership that the motor came from. It's about 1 1/2" diameter. Does a nice job of bundling everything and keeping the sun off.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:37 am
by Larry B
Thanks C Larry, since I posted that I found out it's called Spiral Wrap. The 1/2" will wrap up to 4" dia.

Hey, I was going through your pictures and never seen a post about these paint pictures?? That really looks bad :doh: How is the sterling holding up? I sure don't envy you sanding that off to put Sterling on it :help:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, spiral wrap is what it's called. They sell smaller sizes at NAPA and other auto parts stores. I use it in all sizes, all over the place, good stuff 8)
Hey, I was going through your pictures and never seen a post about these paint pictures?? That really looks bad :doh:
Some people didn't like my comments :doh: The whole truth, nothing but the truth....

That post was under Dougster's thread, back when he was making a paint decision :wink: You sure don't miss much. Here ya go, start at the last post of the page here http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... start=1740 . It goes on for about 4 pages and it pretty much wraps up around here http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... start=1770

And yeah, it still looks bad :oops: I had all intentions of repainting it this past winter, but had other projects and didn't get to it, so it still looks like crap, only about 6 months worse. Thanks for pointing that out :lol: It will probably still look like crap in June at Boca Grande too, and if you are planning on fishing with me, well ya better not be too worried about a little cracked paint :lol: And you can thank me then for saving you some grief :lol:
How is the sterling holding up? I sure don't envy you sanding that off to put Sterling on it
The Sterling is still perfect, it looks like a new car that needs washing :lol: You aren't going to point out the dirty spots too, are you?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:36 pm
by davidtx
Cracker Larry wrote:Yep, spiral wrap is what it's called. They sell smaller sizes at NAPA and other auto parts stores. I use it in all sizes, all over the place, good stuff 8)
Hey, I was going through your pictures and never seen a post about these paint pictures?? That really looks bad :doh:
Some people didn't like my comments :doh: The whole truth, nothing but the truth....

That post was under Dougster's thread, back when he was making a paint decision :wink: You sure don't miss much. Here ya go, start at the last post of the page here http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... start=1740 . It goes on for about 4 pages and it pretty much wraps up around here http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... start=1770

And yeah, it still looks bad :oops: I had all intentions of repainting it this past winter, but had other projects and didn't get to it, so it still looks like crap, only about 6 months worse. Thanks for pointing that out :lol: It will probably still look like crap in June at Boca Grande too, and if you are planning on fishing with me, well ya better not be too worried about a little cracked paint :lol: And you can thank me then for saving you some grief :lol:
How is the sterling holding up? I sure don't envy you sanding that off to put Sterling on it
The Sterling is still perfect, it looks like a new car that needs washing :lol: You aren't going to point out the dirty spots too, are you?
I'm feeling a lot better now about all the money I spent on Sterling 3 years ago. Vman777 is almost done with my paint scheme and it has two more colors in it. I guess I'll pony up for a couple more quarts. How did you apply the Sterling - Roll & Tip or spray?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:07 am
by Larry B
CL, Wow, don't know how I missed all that about the paint??? :doh: A couple of things when you take off the s3. I power washed over 90% off. Up under my splash rails I took a razor and got it started and then most of it just peeled off. For the pieces that don't come off with the power wash, use a sharp razor scraper. I started to sand those and ended going thru the primer in spots. Use the scraper and then all you need is to hand sand the primer with 220 and your ready for the sterling. Some spots you will have to sand. I believe you put the kiwigrip over the s3 and if you did you should be able to just power wash it off with the paint. It's going to be a lot of work, but I think you can do it in a couple of weeks. Taking the hardware off will be the bitch.
Yea, definatly want to say thanks for the heads up on the sterling.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:25 am
by Cracker Larry
A couple of things when you take off the s3. I power washed over 90% off.
I power washed about 1/4 of mine off last summer just trying to wash the boat 8O I have no doubt that I can blow most of it off of there :lol: In the overall scheme of things it ain't that important though, the epoxy underneath is just fine :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Vman777 is almost done with my paint scheme and it has two more colors in it. I guess I'll pony up for a couple more quarts. How did you apply the Sterling - Roll & Tip or spray?
Vman is the man for graphics 8) I rolled and tipped it, can't spray worth a crap. It looks like it was sprayed though, not a brush mark in it :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:35 am
by davidtx
Cracker Larry wrote:
Vman777 is almost done with my paint scheme and it has two more colors in it. I guess I'll pony up for a couple more quarts. How did you apply the Sterling - Roll & Tip or spray?
Vman is the man for graphics 8) I rolled and tipped it, can't spray worth a crap. It looks like it was sprayed though, not a brush mark in it :D
You just saved me a $1,000. Paul has been trying to convince me to get a big-assed air compressor and a spray gun. He got a big compressor to run an air file. I need the exercise and I don't really want to learn how to spray right now.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:52 am
by Cracker Larry
:lol: I tried to learn how to spray, bought a spray gun, results were dismal, sold the spray gun, screw it. Sterling will roll and tip out really nice, as good as any boat needs to be :D So will some other paints. If you've already got the equipment and know how to use it, go for it. If you don't it really isn't necessary.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:41 am
by Cracker Larry
This just proves that a boat is never finished. 2 1/2 years later and we're still making some changes. My friend Raymond surprised us by building a custom swim platform with ladder, and a custom fitted console cover. Both we needed badly :D We're temporarily using starboard for the platform, but I'm building another one from teak.

Image

Image

He tells me that a poling platform is next on my list. It's nice having friends :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:56 am
by gstanfield
:D very nice

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:19 am
by Larry B
All I can is WOW Very, Very Nice :D :D :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:42 pm
by TomW
WOW That's great! 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:28 pm
by davidtx
Very nice! I need to find me a friend like Raymond :) Si says I need a ladder so that Fred can re-enter the boat. Based on my experience with her in the Kayak, he's right.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:05 pm
by macs
That's cool Cl, I always wanted to build some similar out of wood and aluminum or stainless for both sides but never got a round to it. I love those style ladders, I had one on my 22' deck boat. It's the best i've seen. Easy to deploy from in or out of the boat, comfortable to climb, folds up nice and easy, doesn't rattle, etc....... If I ever spend $ on one it will be that kind. I think mine was a windline. A 3 step was around 140 last time I priced them. Blah, blah, blah... looks great. I bet your OD has more accessories than any other to date. 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:16 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:This just proves that a boat is never finished. 2 1/2 years later and we're still making some changes. My friend Raymond surprised us by building a custom swim platform with ladder, and a custom fitted console cover. Both we needed badly :D We're temporarily using starboard for the platform, but I'm building another one from teak.

I'm gonna have to have one of those. Very nice. I like the starboard over teak. I hate extra maintenance.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks yall, all the credit goes to Raymond, he designed and built it, only thing I had to do was install it :D A very nice addition for sure 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:58 am
by majorgator
Larry - The only problem I see with this design is...
Just kidding, looks great. Now you just need to bring it down my way for a warm-water scalloping trip over the summer, that way you'll get some good use from the ladder :lol: :lol:

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Just say the word Seth, I've always wanted to do that. I'll trade an oyster trip :D We used it yesterday, it works good.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:37 am
by Joe H
Larry,
The Ladder looks great!

Joe H

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:41 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Joe :D Your glass work looks great too, but your weather really sucks 8O 85 degrees in Georgia, got sunburned yesterday :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:54 am
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Nope. I don't trailer with the engine tilted up either, I keep it vertical.
C Larry, in looking at this picture, it sure looks like the motor skeg is close to the ground?? :doh: Mine is going to be right at about 12" but when going thru sharp dips it still comes close, within 2" of hitting. I've got a couple of these where I live. Once on the hiway I should be good.
Is this the position you trailer in? And you've never had a problem with hitting the skeg? My axle is pretty close to where yours is, remember I fashioned my trailer after yours :D

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:03 pm
by tobolamr
Why not use a Transom Saver type device? Or do I need some education on that piece of hardware? :doh: My outboard's skeg is about the same as in the picture, but I tow with it up, and locked into a Transom Saver.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
C Larry, in looking at this picture, it sure looks like the motor skeg is close to the ground??
The picture is deceiving. The engine is over the edge of a 4" concrete slab, the the trailer tires are on the grass, and the boat isn't hooked to the truck, it's jacked up with the tongue jack :wink: There is at least 12" of clearance when the trailer is attached to the truck, probably more than that. She sits a bit bow down when hooked to the truck, which raises the engine. The next time I hook it up I'll try to remember to take a side shot. This is the best I can find now.

Image
Why not use a Transom Saver type device?
My transom doesn't really need saving :lol: It's thicker and stronger than anything out of a boat factory, and it's covered with a 3/8" aluminum plate that the engine is bolted through. I ain't worried about the transom :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:48 pm
by Larry B
Thanks C Larry, Yea my transom is strong and I also have a 3/8" X 3" Aluminum flat bar top and bottom inside the transom. Tell you what, everytime I bump my knee or elbow even on the small 3/8" gunwale, it's like hitting solid steel, IT DON'T GIVE ANY AND HURTS LIKE HELL.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:58 pm
by Steven
Hey CL,

Did you use the Safe T NFB or the 4.2 Rotary NFB?

Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:58 am
by Cracker Larry
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
Pictures deleted. Thread closed.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:55 pm
by hooter
Cracker Larry wrote:Pictures deleted. Thread closed.


Any reason why? Maybe i missed something?

Confused hooter

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:22 pm
by gstanfield
I think he just got tired of listening to all the "experts" who never built a boat yet think they know enough to tell everyone else how things are supposed to be...

Just my guess

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:29 pm
by wej
I've read it all(I think) George & I don't need to know all.... but you aren't leaving too, are you?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:30 pm
by Dog Fish
I say that's a good guess George, I have been watching that for a long time on here.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:37 pm
by hooter
Was there a straw that broke his back?

Guess I don't hang out here enough to catch it all. He'll be missed on the FS18 build.

oblivious,
hOOter

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:42 pm
by gstanfield
wej wrote:I've read it all(I think) George & I don't need to know all.... but you aren't leaving too, are you?
I'm not going anywhere at this point. I like Larry and respect him and his wishes, but he's not making decisions for me, my wife does that :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:47 pm
by Steven
Ugh!!! Was really looking forward to the FS18 build. His build thread and experience have helped a lot of builders. Far more than those who have never built a boat. I've refered to the OD thread countless times while building the OB19. I was going to refer a new builder to it. bummer.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:53 pm
by chicagoross
Need you back, Larry! Your experience (both in boat-building and life), asistance, and humor are much appreciated on this forum. (and that's coming from an actual boat-builder :D ) I'm assuming there is a cumulative buildup here, as I've seen you handle insults in the past without losing it. I will be checking WB.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:26 am
by cottontop
Larry, You probably won't read this but we will all miss you. You have so much experience and we all love your humor. Hope you are just stopping this thread and starting a new one for the new boat. John

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:10 am
by Royce
Flipped my GF16 last night and noticed a problem with the floor. I did a search on the gallery to find other builder's pictures and couldn't find anything to help me. I KNOW Cracker Larry has a picture that would show me exactly what I need to know :( Larry - we need you, your expertise and your build threads (which are the tutorials that give the un-handy men like me the confidence that we need to build a boat). I hope you come back soon. We need you :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:27 am
by jacquesmm
Royce wrote:Flipped my GF16 last night and noticed a problem with the floor. I did a search on the gallery to find other builder's pictures and couldn't find anything to help me. I KNOW Cracker Larry has a picture that would show me exactly what I need to know :( Larry - we need you, your expertise and your build threads (which are the tutorials that give the un-handy men like me the confidence that we need to build a boat). I hope you come back soon. We need you :help:
If you need help with your GF16, please start a new thread and we will help you.
If Larry decides to leave, we will miss him but there are still hundreds of good builders on this board plus Joel and I the designer.

The GF16 bottom has no stringers and may flex at high speed but there are solutions to that. Start the thread and I will explain.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:06 pm
by Hope2float
Hey larry did i miss something? I couldn't find the insult or arrows. I just got back at it and was looking for some guidence as needed. I hope it was just a brain fart that caused your decision. Many here need your advice and pictures.
Dave

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
Send me an email Dave, I'll be glad to help you.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:57 pm
by Hope2float
Thanks Larry, but i can't email you there is no link to do so. My email address is now removed. If you forward me yours to that address i will give you my cell number and maybe we can talk. Once again thanks
Dave
Thanks George

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:00 pm
by gstanfield
Dave, you might want to remove your e-mail from this public forum or spell it out so that computer spamming software can't read it.

Something like this: buildrite2day at yahoo dot com

just a suggestion :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:55 pm
by Steven
Well I guess you're going to have to fill the toothpaste tube one picture at a time. I hope you still have them on your computer. If you don't mind, I'd like a shot inside the console. I'd like to see the Steering cable and shifter cable arrangment. In particular how they make the bends. My chases are in the rear right corner. For the steering this going to be good. Should come up and over to the steerring head fine. The shifter is another matter. Wish that chase was in the front right corner. The shifter is angled so much, the cables will have to come out of the chase at a forward angel and then arc back to the controller.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:05 pm
by stickystuff
If you get the red jacket cables you can make the bend with no problems. They are a braided cable not the steel single strand cable. A little pricey and you have to get the adapters for the ends depending on the motor type. Excellent cables and a lot smoother.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:12 pm
by Prarie Dog
Steven, you don't want to see inside Larry's console, the wiring is entirely too neat. It will make you feel bad. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:44 pm
by Steven
Prarie Dog wrote:Steven, you don't want to see inside Larry's console, the wiring is entirely too neat. It will make you feel bad. :D
Or inspire me. :)

Thanks for the tip on the cables Ken. I'll check them out. Don't mind paying extra for better.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well I guess you're going to have to fill the toothpaste tube one picture at a time.
Ah man :doh: Didn't somebody say that Fein made a toothpaste re-packer?
I hope you still have them on your computer. If you don't mind, I'd like a shot inside the console. I'd like to see the Steering cable and shifter cable arrangment. In particular how they make the bends.
Yall are a high maintenance group :lol: Yeah, I've still got all my pics, and about 10,000 more. Standby, it will take a few minutes to find them. What Ken said on the cables, there are different grades. I'm using Yamaha cables and they are real nice too. The control cables are pretty bendy except for the ends. The steering cable is not.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
Make that 20,000 more. It will be easier if I just go out and take a picture of it in the morning :lol: Maybe it was Festool that made one of those things :?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:39 am
by macs
CL, I wish you'd put all those pics back. :cry: I still look back at them all the time for ideas and such. I know I'm not the only one too.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:00 am
by Cracker Larry
Well Macs, it took me 7 years to get all those pics posted :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:14 am
by davidtx
I checked to see if your album had been archived by The Wayback Machine (http://www.archive.org/index.php), but could only find two images. It was a quick check - if you had more than one album, I may have missed it. It's too bad; if they were there, it would be pretty straightforward for folks to find pics by looking at the links in the thread. It also wouldn't be too tough to write a bit of code to restore them all.

I encourage folks to poke around at The Wayback Machine and ponder the implications. Doing so years ago improved my public temperance.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:49 am
by Cracker Larry
Here ya go Steven..the heavy black cables you see bolted to the steering head are lightning grounds.

Image

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:55 am
by Steven
Outstanding. They do look plenty bendy. Thanks for taking the time. Glad you snapped the wiring. Planned on coming back to the original shot when I do my wiring.

Edit. I remember that is the original. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:37 pm
by macs
Well Macs, it took me 7 years to get all those pics posted
Yea, I kinda figured that. I wonder does the web site have the ability to undelete them with a few clicks of the mouse? :doh:

I'll bring some beer and some 12 year McCallan or Bookers and we can take turns pointing and clicking :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:40 pm
by macs
I can't tell you how many times I looked at those wiring pics of yours before, during and after I wired mine up. The after was to look at how mine didn't turn out near as neat as yours did. :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:44 pm
by Steven
Hey CL,

Are you going to repaint your interior with Sterling when you get around to fixing that mess? I'm trying to decide on how finished I want the interior. I want the durability of Sterling but figure the level of fairing I do on the interior will not be up to that level, except for the CC and LeaningPost/Livewell. They're getting full on treatment. I wonder if Sterling has a flattenting agent. That might be a good compromise. I just hate to put such a glossy coating on surfaces that will be just a little better than workboat.

Steven

Edit: They do have a flattening additive, but they recommend spraying for a more even application. ugh. Always something to ponder.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:43 am
by Cracker Larry
I ain't sure I've got it in me Steven. In the overall scheme of things it don't matter. The boat has enough epoxy on it that the paint is just window dressing. I might give it a good sanding and coat everything that had S3 on it with Kiwi- Grip. I don't think I'll ever re-do the interior with Sterling. I've got more boats to build. But if I was starting over, I'd do it all in Sterling and Kiwi Grip.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:18 am
by Cracker Larry
After a lot of use, it's time for more maintenance. Heading down to the Keys again and we don't want troubles that we can prevent. I greased the wheel bearings before the Boca Grande trip but they have never been replaced, so I figured it was time. Got a 1500 mile road trip coming up, in 100 degree weather. It's better to deal with bearings and hubs in the comfort of the shop, rather than along I95, with an angry Mrs. Cracker :help:

Same with the water pump, I replaced it about a year and a half ago, but it's got 150 hours on it and I'd rather replace it here than in the Bahamas. Everything on the engine except the water pump was serviced before Boca Grande. New plugs, new lower unit lube, fuel filters, grease everything...

Image

This is one reason I buy Yamaha. The engine is 40 months old and been used almost exclusively in salt water. Look at the condition of the lower unit bolts, just like brand new..

Image

The lower unit itself is also like new, not a spec of corrosion. The impeller is worn and has taken a hard set. It pumps a lot of sand and mud, and I knew it would be getting weak. Better to change it all now before it fails. The water pump kit has the impeller, pump cup, wear plate, seals, O-rings and gaskets. All for $40, not bad 8)

Image

The leg is also clean and corrosion free. Looks like new, inside and out :D

Image

Since there were no corrosion problems to deal with, the pump replacement was quick and easy. Everything greased and back together, pumping a strong stream again.

Image

Now back to these dang hubs and bearings, which were not made by Yamaha :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:46 am
by Uncle D
I'll definitely think long and hard about a Yammy if and when I repower. I got into the habit of using Neversieze an almost everything. But then again I have older JohnnyRudes. I'll tell ya, I think it's impressive you motor to the Bahamas. I've never had much open water experience except 20-25 miles into the gulf. Hope to see pics of the trip. D.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:45 am
by ks8
That just may be one of the most important posts you've posted CL. Thanks! :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:37 pm
by tobolamr
I agree, ks8. And, it's one of the most well-worded posts about how choosing proper equipment makes life easier in the long haul. Now if only everyone followed that template... :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
All back together and ready to roll finally, after 3 trips to get the right size bearings :doh: That's another thing you don't want to fool with on the side of the road :help: First trip was to the Agri-Supply in Statesboro, 45 miles one way. They have great prices and carry almost everything. I took a hub and a set of bearings with me for them to match it. They had a complete kit with new hub, bearings, seals, lug nuts, cotter pin, everything, for $25. So I bought 2 of them. Drove home, all ready to go, and the dang bearings didn't fit the axles. We've got a Napa store 15 miles away, so I figured I'd just go there and get the bearings. so I took an original bearing, and a hub to Napa and they matched it up and sent me on my way with 4 bearings, $38. Got home, tried them out, and the SOBS were too small for the axle :doh: So (next day) I got my dial calipers and measured the axle, and took the old and new bearings back to Napa, along with my dial calipers, and got the right bearings. You would think they could match a bearing, that's what they do :?

Image

Now I've got 2 spare hubs, 2 spare sets of bearings and 2 spare seals. I will clean and repack these and wrap them in plastic. Then if we have a problem on the road, we can fix it quick and I know all the spare parts will fit.

Image
Now if only everyone followed that template... :wink:
:lol: It goes way back to my old man. If the boat can't fish, nobody gets paid, not even the bank. The roof might leak and the truck might not start and the dog is hungry, but the dang boat stays ready to fish. Same in the charter boat business. Keep everything in perfect shape and carry a spare of everything that is likely to break. A $10 part can cost you thousands if you have to wait days to get one.

I have a much stronger incentive though. Her name is Mrs. Cracker and she is not happy being broke down anywhere :help: And if it happens to be for a reason she knows I could have prevented, well, it aint good. Me, I can be happy and make myself comfortable about anywhere I happen to land. I can make a camp, set a perimeter, kick back and relax most anywhere. Tomorrow or next week don't matter much to me. But Mrs. Cracker runs on a much tighter schedule than I do and she has a very narrow time allowance for unscheduled stops. Her comfort margins are a little tighter than mine too :lol:

I remember once years ago, we were driving home from Marco Island in the middle of the night after a 3 week boat trip. About 0100 a wheel bearing started squealing, then it would quit a while, then squeal a while. We were between St. Augustine and Jacksonville on I95. I passed a perfectly good exit, thinking it would make it 3 more hours to home. I was wrong. It locked up tighter than a... nevermind...and we came to a stop, about as far between exits as you can be on I95. I didn't have anything to fix it, and this was before cell phones, so I was ready to build a fire and settle in until morning. Mrs. Cracker was ready for a shower and a bed. So we walked 10 miles to the next exit, got there about sunrise, checked into a motel. She took a shower and went to bed. I took care of the wheel bearing that had welded itself to the axle. After the same parts CF above, and 2 days later, we finally got home.

And another time in the Bahamas, we lost a simple water pump impeller and I didn't have a spare. Put in at Walkers Cay because they had a radio tower and an airstrip. At that time there was no phone service in the Bahamas, everything went out SSB radio through a stateside marine radio telephone operator. So we finally find the radio operator on Walkers, who has a better buzz than I do, and ask about a call to the states. He says probably not, mon, too cloudy today, maybe manana. We ask if he could try. Sure mon, $20 to try. So we pay our $20 and fire up the old tubes and tune the antennas, and give it a try. West Palm Radio, dis is Walkers Baby, West Palm, dis is Walkers Baby. No answer. He turns it off and says too cloudy mon, maybe manana, mon. Relax mon. Now, I'm pretty good at relaxing, but when Mrs Cracker is ready to come home, I aint going to get much of it done. Short version is that it was cloudy for 4 days, and we tried twice a day, and we finally found the damn $15 impeller in Miami, and had it taxied in a cab to a charter flight company in Ft. Lauderdale, which took I forget how many $20 radio calls, and had it flown out to Walkers Cay about a week later, well...after that little episode I make dang sure that I've got every spare part we will likely need, but I've especially got a spare water pump impeller :lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:30 am
by macs
I always love the stories CL, (especially the one about Ms. Jimmy) you have certainly lived an interesting life. Glad to see your posting some old and new pics. Great advice on the bearings, water pump. That reminds me, I probablly should change my pump, lower unit oil out and check the wheel bearings as well. I don't have a lot of miles but probabbly pushing the 100 hour mark for the impeller and oil.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:35 am
by thb
CL, Great stories :lol: and I can imagine them both. Moral of the stories is worth taking note of. I would never have thought of carrying spare hubs but for a long towing trip, that is a great idea. I need to put together a few more spares to keep in my truck and spare impellers for each boat. Of course I do not typically trailer long distances but still great idea and better than being stuck on the side of the road.
Thanks for sharing the experiences.
Tom in Steinhatchee :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:19 pm
by Joe H
and this was before cell phones
And now you/we can't live without them!, How did we do it.

Image

Good lessons.

Joe H

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: Yep, that's me saying yes mam, and Mrs. Cracker on the other end of that dang thing :lol: Life was simpler before cell phones :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:39 am
by ericsil
Good post! I have gotten lazy since I started putting only about 20 miles per yr on my trailer. I am going to have to remember that link when it comes time to haul back to Austin. Nothing like a good bearing failure hundreds of miles from home, unless of course it is a breakdown 30 miles from shore.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:48 am
by Cracker Larry
One more hint before hitting the road. Make sure the lug wrench for your truck will also fit the trailer, same with the jack. Mine doesn't. And a couple of boards and blocks of wood can be very handy to have.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:35 pm
by ks8
Ain't that the truth! :lol: :oops:

I keep a four way wrench and a 2 ton jack in the van for long trips now, in case an opportunity shows up to help someone with a flat who has neither. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:06 pm
by chicagoross
All good advice. I used to haul the boat down 600 miles of bad Baja roads with basically no services/supplies along the way. The only thing missing from the advice above is what we called the "Baja spare" - mount a spare tire on the trailer tongue with it's own stub axle etc. First, it ensures that you have a spare of everything handy even if something happened to your carefully packed spares; second, it allows you to detach the trailer from the vehicle and roll it down the beach manually, handy in high tide or soft sand launches.

Also, make sure the tool box contains a selection of files and sandpaper, in case the need for "machining" spindles etc. arises... :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:22 am
by mecreature
I have been much better about preventive work since I started pulling a Travel Trailer.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
The maintenance paid off. :D Safe and sound in the Keys without a problem. Boat launched and ready to fish. Had a great night last night. Met up in Sebastion with Peter Curacao and his beautiful seniorita Gloria, Joel and his beautiful senorita Melissa and family, and Jody aka Copro, and his dog. :D. Mrs. Cracker and I really enjoyed it. 8)

Tomorrow is the annual Looe Key underwater music festival, we're checking that out first thing. Then catch some supper :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:31 pm
by Royce
Sounds like fun Larry. Enjoy! :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:28 am
by chopperman
When are you going to make your way back to Savannah? If your taking I-95 back and I'm off work, maybe we can meet up near Daytona for a bite to eat. :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:19 am
by majorgator
Tomorrow is the annual Looe Key underwater music festival, we're checking that out first thing.
I got a notification for that in the mail a month or so back. Sounds like a great drinking event 8) 8) Have fun...I hope you slay the yellowtails :D :D

seth

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:00 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:The maintenance paid off. :D Safe and sound in the Keys without a problem. Boat launched and ready to fish. Had a great night last night. Met up in Sebastion with Peter Curacao and his beautiful seniorita Gloria, Joel and his beautiful senorita Melissa and family, and Jody aka Copro, and his dog. :D. Mrs. Cracker and I really enjoyed it. 8)

Tomorrow is the annual Looe Key underwater music festival, we're checking that out first thing. Then catch some supper :lol:
Hi Larry we had a great time also, met some nice new people, food was great and drinks .... well most of the time :wink: we decided to stop and find a hotel at Pensacola beach, boy that was a wrong decision, today the Blue angels have there annual flying show, so if you didn't want to spent US$ 400,- on a room, every hotel was book solid, so we drove further and the first available room we found was in Daphne AL, ah well the good thing is, it makes today only a short drive to New Orleans 8)
Again everybody thanks for the great day/evening, Larry I hope you catch a lot of fish maybe even a big gamer and Joel hope you like the green poison :P Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:38 pm
by peter-curacao
Larry I stumbled on this, knowing you a little bit I'm almost sure you can appreciate it, if not just push delete :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:07 am
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Peter 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:30 am
by Cracker Larry
chopperman wrote:When are you going to make your way back to Savannah? If your taking I-95 back and I'm off work, maybe we can meet up near Daytona for a bite to eat. :)
Thanks! Probably Sunday or Monday. Will let you know. I've still got your cell# I think.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:45 am
by Cracker Larry
Back home safe from the Keys :D We had a fantastic trip, met up with some old friends and made some new, caught a lot of fish and the boat performed flawlessly. We were blessed with 6 days of perfect weather and was able to run offshore as far as we wanted, 50 miles and more. Even Mrs. Cracker couldn't find anything to fuss about :lol: One day we ran out to the Marathon Hump and on another we ran out to the Ups and Downs off Key West. On another we ran 40 miles out in the Gulf to some ledges, didn't catch squat out there but 1 cuda :doh:

The boat is going on her 4th season now and continues to exceed all expectations. In the last week we put over 60 engine hours on her, ran over 1000 miles by the GPS, most of that offshore. Burned 130 gallons of fuel and almost 2 gallons of oil. The fuel where we stayed was non-ethanol 90 octane, good stuff, and we cycled 4 tank fulls through her, that should clean the pipes :lol:

Brought home a cooler full of fish fillets, wahoo, dolphin, yellowtail and mangrove snapper. Got those snapper figured out! The main camera crapped out at the underwater music festival on the first day down, so was stuck with a cell phone for pics. Will work on posting some later. Right now we're just trying to get this floating tackle box we call a boat cleaned up and dried out :lol:

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:08 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Sounds like you had a great time 8) Can't wait to see the pictures! Did you get any tuna on the hump?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:30 pm
by macs
Glad to see ya'll back home safe. I agree, it sounds like a wonderfull trip. I actually caught a few catfish this weekend. Caught the bait with a cast net, went out juggin and caught 6 or so, kept 4 to fry. Hell I'm thinking I'm almost a fisherman.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:42 pm
by ejohns
Larry

I have a trip to the Keys scheduled for the end of August and would appreciate any pointers you could give me. We will be towing the C21 down and staying in the Islamorado area. It will be my wife, my two daughters, thier friends and myself.

Thanks for any help.
Ernie

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:52 am
by Prarie Dog
Happy to see you had a good trip, sounds like a blast. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:43 am
by Cracker Larry
Did you get any tuna on the hump?
No, sadly we didn't get any tuna, anywhere, no billfish either :( No much on the hump at all other than a few dolphin and cuda, same at the Ups and Downs. I was pulling everything we had including 2 daisy chains of 8 Boone bird teasers, and a spreader bar rig with 36 plastic squid. It looked impressive but it didn't raise many fish. I think part of the problem was the wind had been strong out of the east for days, and the Sargasso weed had all blown into Hawks Channel and along the outer reef. Once we got 5 miles off the reef there were no weeds anywhere for the next 50 miles. Most of the fish we caught were in the weeds within a few miles of the reef, +- 300' of water. It was tough trolling because the baits kept weeding up. By the time I was putting out the 3rd bait, the first 2 were already fouled. Had to work my butt off all the time to keep a clean bait or 2 in the water. The weeds kept fouling the engine too.
I have a trip to the Keys scheduled for the end of August and would appreciate any pointers you could give me. We will be towing the C21 down and staying in the Islamorado area. It will be my wife, my two daughters, thier friends and myself.

Thanks for any help.
Ernie
Sure Ernie. That's about 75 miles north of where we were fishing, so I don't have any specific numbers up there, but can give you a lot of general information that will put some fish in the boat. Why don't you start a new thread in Anything Else/ Anyone Fishing section. Other people will have some good advice also who may not be following this. Copro (Jody) is just back from a month down there too.

Thanks Macs and Paul, yeah we had a blast. Already planning the next trip down :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:00 pm
by ejohns
Thanks Larry I will do that later this afternoon. All help is appreciated.

Thanks again and glad you had a good trip.

Ernie

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:52 pm
by tobolamr
Larry,

Say, I was wondering if you could share with us all what kind of "maintenance" the hull has needed since you splashed the boat. You seem to use your OD18 quite a bit, and I've always been curious how the paint works over time, and things of that nature. Plus, I'm offshore fishing illiterate, and wouldn't mind learning a little more about the care in saltwater that you guys go through. I'm really curious to know how the hull, cosmetically and structurally, works out over time. This is a curiosity thing more than anything, as well as a learning thing. Thanks!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:01 am
by Cracker Larry
Say, I was wondering if you could share with us all what kind of "maintenance" the hull has needed since you splashed the boat.
Sure. Not much really :D The boat sits outside in the weather 24/7. The exterior is still in perfect condition and the Sterling paint looks like a new car. After numerous collisions with oysters, the bottom does not even have a scratch on it, nothing more than light scuff marks. Somebody was looking at it last week and asked if it was a new boat. They couldn't believe it when I told them it was almost 4 years old.

The interior is not doing as well :( the System3 paint has 100,000 little spiderweb cracks in it and is peeling in several spots. A couple of spots I sanded out and repainted last year and they are already cracking again. This has been the only disappointment in the whole thing, and the interior needs to be completely sanded down and re-painted. It won't be with S3 either, never again. The Kiwi Grip is holding up beautifully, no problems there at all. There have been no structural issues anywhere and she's as solid as the day she was built.

Zero troubles with the engine, electrical, mechanical and plumbing systems. All still work and look like new.

As far as salt water maintenance, I'm a fanatic. Get the salt off and keep it greased. The boat is washed from bow to stern and top to bottom with soap and a scrub brush after every trip. The engine is washed and flushed with fresh water after every trip, then given a light coat of anti-corrosion spray. I use Yamalube. The trailer also gets washed every trip.

Every 25 hours I grease everything that moves. Steering and control cables, grease fittings, prop shaft, etc. Every 50 hours I replace the plugs, fuel filters and lower unit lube. Every 100 hours I replace the water pump, whether it needs it or not.
That's about it. Except for the S3 paint, I'm completely satisfied with how she's holding up :D Not looking forward to re-painting, because all the hardware has to come off :help:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:05 am
by wadestep
Cracker Larry wrote:Every 25 hours I grease everything that moves. Steering and control cables, grease fittings, prop shaft, etc. Every 50 hours I replace the plugs, fuel filters and lower unit lube. Every 100 hours I replace the water pump, whether it needs it or not.
Wow - that's a really aggressive maintenence schedule! I'd bet less than 5% of people with boats in saltwater change their plugs, lower unit lube, and fuel filters every 50 hours. I probably burn 6x as many gallons of gas through my fuel filter before changing it every 100 hours. (250 hp engine) My plugs get changed every 200 hours. No problems in 600 hours, but still could be that CL's motor will outlast mine. No way to tell.
I've always wondered whrere the tradeoff between money put into maintenence and engine life/reliability/efficiency lies. CL's definatly on one end of the spectrum, but he could be right...
wade

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:05 am
by Larry B
(edit) Moved to OD18 Arizona

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wow - that's a really aggressive maintenence schedule!
That's actually the maintenance schedule in the owners manual for the plugs and fuel filters. I didn't get one of those 3 year maintenance free engines, (that coincidentally also has a 3 year warranty :doh: ) but if I did, I wouldn't change a thing :wink:

Gear lube is specified every 100 hours, but I do it every 50 because if salt water gets in there I don't want it to stay 100 hours before I know about it :help: The water pump replacement schedule is 1 year or 200 hours, whichever comes first. 100 hours is a good mid-life and changing it regular insures that all the lower unit bolts remain free and removable. I pump a lot of sand and mud. In our salt water, if you wait 3 years to remove the bolts, they ain't coming out without a cutting torch. Keep them greased and limber and it's easy to maintain. If you wait too long, a simple job becomes a disaster.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
(edit) Moved to OD18 Arizona
Dang, that Etec done broke again?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:59 pm
by wadestep
I was thinking later in the day that your maintenence schedule sounds like the schedule of someone who wants to be confident enough to run an OD18 to the Bahamas. Not a bad idea!
wade

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:59 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
(edit) Moved to OD18 Arizona
Dang, that Etec done broke again?
What do you mean (Again) or are talking about my start up problem, Dang your getting nit picky, go read my new post and you will be happy :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:31 pm
by tobolamr
Thanks for indulging me, Larry. I sure appreciate it. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can, and knowing we have great people here who can answer questions without being troublesome sure makes it easier!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
your maintenence schedule sounds like the schedule of someone who wants to be confident enough to run an OD18 to the Bahamas. Not a bad idea!
wade
Exactly, and to feel confident enough to take my wife along with me. I have explained in the past about how happy she is when we are broke down somewhere and it can remotely be blamed on me :roll: I have to be able to document my diligence. I also take out paying fishing clients from time to time, and they don't like it if the boat breaks down. They pay for the maintenance anyway, so I might as well do it :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
What do you mean (Again) or are talking about my start up problem, Dang your getting nit picky, go read my new post and you will be happy
Yeah, again, including the start up problem and now this one makes again :lol: I read the post here before you edited it and moved it to your thread. Just funnin' with you of course :lol: I replied on your thread.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:07 pm
by Steven
Hey CL,

What is the roller called you use for your anchor on the bow and where did you get it?

Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's a ratcheting winch from a sailboat, made by Barlow. 7/1 mechanical advantage. Just something I had and made use of. I had 2 of them, but gave one to TomW. They are fairly expensive, maybe $300. You probably don't need one that bad :P

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:34 pm
by Prarie Dog
Hey Larry, could you please post pictures and explain how you rig your anchor for fishing in the Keys? I remember something about this from last year and can't remember the details. Something about Zip Ties and running the rope under :doh: --can't remember. Thanks :!:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
Will do Paul.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Here ya go...

Instead of shackling the chain at the normal location on the eye of the shank, shackle it to the crown end, then tie the chain along the shank with a few cable ties, and a couple more through the shank eye. When it gets stuck, position the boat directly over it and put some tension on the line. The cable ties pop and the anchor comes up backwards.

Just don't use cable ties that are too heavy.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:57 pm
by Prarie Dog
Thanks Larry, don't know how that would work with our anchor. Will check it out.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
What kind of anchor?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:40 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:It's a ratcheting winch from a sailboat, made by Barlow. 7/1 mechanical advantage. Just something I had and made use of. I had 2 of them, but gave one to TomW. They are fairly expensive, maybe $300. You probably don't need one that bad :P

I'll look around some. I like it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:45 pm
by ks8
That rigging can work somewhat with a Danforth also, but not as well, since the danforth is a *two sided* deployable anchor. Even if it digs in on the *less than ideal side*, a similar rigging will still have a better chance of breaking it out than the standard rigging, unless it is severly fouled in rocks or other nasty debris down under, assuming that yanking on a danforth from the opposite direction of the set (or 90 degrees to it) is not sufficient. I've seen this used on a danforth, but a 90 to 135 degree breakout is usually sufficient if there isn't a severe fouling to deal with. I haven't lost any ground tackle yet, but... opppps! I had to go and say it! :help:

I've also seen some use several turns of wool yarn instead of zip ties (old school?). But I am relatively utterly ignorant compared to the qualifications of others here. Many thanks to the wisdom of the salty sages. :)

Great picture CL. Thanks! :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'll look around some. I like it.
Yeah, I like it too. The winch is very handy, but something you almost never see on power boats. I got so used to having winches on fishing boats and sail boats that I got spoiled. That scoundrel can pull on an anchor line a lot harder than I can :!:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
That rigging can work somewhat with a Danforth also, but not as well, since the danforth is a *two sided* deployable anchor.
I use the same setup on my danforth, it works fine. A danforth is not the best anchor to drop on coral bottom though, they will bend like a pretzel. The claw type is much better, for any type of bottom.
unless it is severely fouled in rocks or other nasty debris down under,
That is always the case when the SOB won't come up. If it wasn't fouled, it wouldn't be stuck :lol:
I haven't lost any ground tackle yet, but... opppps! I had to go and say it! :help:
Wish I could say that :oops: I've bent up dozens of them, that's bad enough, but it makes me sick cut loose 100' of line, 20' of chain, plus the anchor. That hurts. Right, Richard :cry: Now Richard uses zip ties too :lol:
I've also seen some use several turns of wool yarn instead of zip ties (old school?)
Oh yeah, I didn't invent this trick, it's been around a long time. My Dad taught me and somebody else taught him. Years ago we used tarred cotton cord about 1/8", called marline, or small stuff. Don't know about yarn, that doesn't seem strong enough.
Saved many an anchor like this :D

On my charter boats we used to make expendable reef anchors out of a piece of pipe and some rebar, but we always rigged them the same way. Think I've got a pic somewhere of that.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Reef anchor, trip rigged. Not my pic, but this is what I meant. This is really the best for anchoring on reefs and wrecks. You don't loose much when you lose it, make another for $10.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:41 pm
by ks8
:lol: :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:50 pm
by chicagoross
:D CL, that's exactly the anchor that all the panga fishermen in middle Sea of Cortez use! I copied it in Stainless Steel in Philippines for my 25' Carolina Skiff type boat there. In PI, I could make that out of stainless for about $10. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Resurrecting this old thread.

No Excuse went to Raymond's fab shop this morning for a new T-top. Raymond had drawn some sketches that were awesome. I told him just to have his way with her and do whatever he wanted to do :D His design skills exceed mine and he thinks of details that I never would. The new top will be 1 foot longer, 1 foot wider, and double railed. The existing top was just a simple rectangle with straight sides, but the new one will have side rails that match the curve of the gunwales and built to the lines of the boat.

He is planning on 6 tulep rod holders, instead of the cheap pipe tubes that I have now, and mounting pads for antennas and lights instead of the clamp on stuff. All wiring will be run through the pipe legs, so I won't need the external conduit any longer. The top will have some arch to shed water better, and several other improvements. I'm going to eliminate the upper electronics box, it was built mainly to hold the LORAN anyway, and since Obama took our LORAN away, don't really need it. Get rid of the weight and windage of that. It's just a place for wrens to build nests and love bugs to splatter lately.

I stripped it to bare bones before I took it to him, it will be interesting to see how it comes back :D

Image

After the top is finished, she'll get some new paint here and there and some other upgrades.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:44 pm
by Prarie Dog
Cracker Larry wrote: it will be interesting to see how it comes back


That's likely to be a major understatement. I'll watch this with a lot of interest, Raymond never ceases to amaze me. Was out in the barn the other day looking that little leaning post over for something, any kind of something that wasn't perfect. Couldn't find it. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:46 pm
by AtTheBrink
Cool! Do you have a drawing we could see? From the little bit of work I have seen come from Raymond it should be first class all the way. I am still planning on talking to him about a poling platform. I'm sure he could come up with something unique to really make my little skiff stand out.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's likely to be a major understatement.
Yep, sure enough :lol:
looking that little leaning post over for something, any kind of something that wasn't perfect. Couldn't find it. :D
You won't. Nothing leaves that isn't perfect. He's worse than me, I swear it. Anytime someone around him says "nothing's perfect", he says "why the hell not? " It doesn't matter if it takes an extra day, or an extra month, if his name is on it, it leaves perfect.
Do you have a drawing we could see?
No, he kept those, he designs on napkins and the back of envelopes :lol:
I am still planning on talking to him about a poling platform. I'm sure he could come up with something unique to really make my little skiff stand out.
I'm sure he could :!: Please call him and tell him I referred you, it will help the price of my new top :D Be prepared to wait a while, or start early, his work is in high demand. He will not be cheap either, just the best you can get.

843-784-6110 or email info@martinmarinedesign.com

How about this one....

Image

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:46 pm
by AtTheBrink
Dang that is a pretty one! His welds are a work of art! I like that platform! I was thinking of having mine cant forward, I don't need any more weight hanging off the back of the boat.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
First update. Got to break some eggs to make a cake. I think he has a plan :D

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:46 pm
by ks8
Looking forward to seeing more of how form and function become artistry. 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Looking forward to seeing more of how form and function become artistry.
Me too :D

Still waiting for you to stop by KS. Please do if you get a chance.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
More progress :D Old top ring is in the center... new ring being formed.

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Now I'm sure he has a plan :D Old ring is discarded, new outer ring is made and he's working on the inner ring now.

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:38 pm
by Larry B
Thats sure going to be nice :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
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That's all for today :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:57 pm
by wegcagle
Dang that looks good Larry. It sure is nice to have friends with skills. It's even better when you have bartering skills too 8)

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:31 pm
by ks8
Craftsman at work... 8)

Four times I passed by at around 3am... :? ... just how that long haul has worked out so far. I should be passing by again in bout a week. Hopefully I can work the schedule some either heading north, or south about a week or two later. :)

You might have your new top by then? 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Probably so, KS. He moves right along :D Come on by, but preferably not at 3 am 8O Got plenty of room if you want to spend the night, got time to go fishing too, if you do.

More progress today....

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:55 pm
by AtTheBrink
I like it! Much more style than the old one. At th erate he's going you'll have a new top by the end of next week! Looking forward to seeing it installed.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
The new top section is about finished. Next up is to sew the fabric.

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:44 pm
by wegcagle
What can you say ither than wow :!: heckuva t-top for a great boat

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:02 am
by topwater
Larry thats a real nice top 8) Going to make a nice addition to the boat.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:46 am
by Cracker Larry
Yes it is! I wish I could say that I built it, but I can't even fake it :lol: The man is amazing. The problem now is that the top is going to out class the rest of the boat :D

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:07 am
by cape man
What did you do with the old top?


Never mind....just saw this on the FS 18 thread...
we are going to use the existing legs and cut them off just above the cross brace. They are fine and well attached, so we will leave well enough alone there. It's really just the top of the legs and top ring section that we are replacing. I'm re-using the old fabric to make an engine cover, so there really won't be much left worth saving.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:34 pm
by wegcagle
The problem now is that the top is going to out class the rest of the boat
I doubt it. I've been on your boat 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:57 am
by Cracker Larry
Sorry Craig, I missed that question :oops: Keeping the "Cape Man" legs anyway :D Sure do appreciate you giving me that top, it's served very well for 5 years 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:36 am
by Prarie Dog
Cracker Larry wrote:Yes it is! I wish I could say that I built it, but I can't even fake it The man is amazing. The problem now is that the top is going to out class the rest of the boat
Feel the same way about the stuff he's built for us. After thinking about it, the best way to describe his stuff I can come up with goes like this.
1. Widow woman farm quality.
2. Farm boy quality
3. Tract home quality
4. Custom home quality
5. Boat builder quality
6. Airplane stuff
7. Space stuff

I'm sure some steps in my quality ladder are missing but you guys get the idea. Raymonds stuff is built like Airplane stuff sans the interest in making it the lightest possible with an arty/creative component that is lacking in most modern fabrication. I won't say that he's the only guy that is creative but most fabricators build stuff with the time component and limiting that as the main component.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:14 am
by Cracker Larry
I'm not even qualified enough to be his helper :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:51 am
by Cracker Larry
More top porn :D

No sheet metal screws for Raymond, he drills and taps all mounting supports for machine screws, then makes shims from Starboard so the antennas will sit exactly vertical on the arch.

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Not happy with a factory GPS mount, he decided to build one from scratch, I couldn't do that in 100 years, he does it in a half hour or so :doh: And makes an angled shim plate so it will be vertical.

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:29 am
by tech_support
dang 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:47 am
by wegcagle
Awesome 8) Come August/Sept I should be making a few phone calls to Raymond. I am thinking about 4-6 stainless grab bars for the GV15. Will he give you any discount on future guaranteed purchases?

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:10 am
by Cracker Larry
dang 8)
My thoughts exactly :!:
Come August/Sept I should be making a few phone calls to Raymond. I am thinking about 4-6 stainless grab bars for the GV15. Will he give you any discount on future guaranteed purchases?
It can only help :D Call him today, I've got a feeling this is going to hurt 8O


Now it's time to fit the fabric. He starts off with a clear pattern making material..

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He puts 2 sided tape where all the seams will be, then stretches the pattern material tight over the frame.

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Everything is fit to perfection, his, not mine :lol: I was wondering how the fabric would fit around the rod holders..

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As usual, he had a plan.

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Pattern is finished and this will be transferred to the fabric for cutting and sewing 8)

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:08 pm
by Prarie Dog
WOW :!: :!:


Can't imagine the favor, did you save his life? :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:37 pm
by cali123
I second that WOW. That reinforced pattern making material is trick. 8) 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:16 pm
by Hope2float
Holy sh#$ that thing is awesome. A work of art in every sense. Can't wait to see it on the boat. Good luck with that larry. I think you don't give yourself enough credit. If you worked with those materials you would produce some awesome stuff yourself. Give him a pile of wood, some epoxy filler etc. and he would probably feel the way you do about working with metals. As I said to Peter there are very few who have the talent to harness the mechanical brain as well as the art brain. He has clearly managed both.

Dave

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Give him a pile of wood, some epoxy filler etc. and he would probably feel the way you do about working with metals.
I almost wish that were true, but it's not :lol: He can do that as well as I can. I haven't shown you the pictures of his micro skiff that he rebuilt with Coosa Board, or his 25' offshore boat that he replaced the transom in, both are first class jobs. He certainly uses both sides of his brain :D
WOW :!: :!:
Can't imagine the favor, did you save his life? :D
:lol: Not yet, but he's taking me fishing Saturday since I don't have a boat. Maybe I can trip him off and rescue
him :idea:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:27 pm
by Hope2float
Just sticking up for ya. I stand I mean i sit corrected.
Dave

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Dave, appreciate it , but I'm outclassed here. It couldn't be by a better man though :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
We are using a Sunbrella fabric, it's a blue tweed on top and vinyl coated blue on bottom, looks really waterproof, unlike the leaking roof that we had.

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The patterns are layed over the fabric and cut out.

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Seams are sewed

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Seams sewed

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Edges are reinforced with a black nylon tabbing......

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
I reckon lacing grommets are next, I don't know :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:37 pm
by AtTheBrink
That top looks awesome Larry! I hope you get many, many years use out of it.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
The way I feel, I'm sure it will outlast me :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:16 pm
by AtTheBrink
Cracker Larry wrote:The way I feel, I'm sure it will outlast me :D
Well let's hope not! But I know what you're talking about. I am quite a bit younger than you and I am in constant pain....

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:28 pm
by TRC886
Cracker Larry wrote:Yes it is! I wish I could say that I built it, but I can't even fake it :lol: The man is amazing. The problem now is that the top is going to out class the rest of the boat :D

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That top is absolutely gorgeous :!: It does seem to overpower that little small Yamaha, though :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:47 am
by Cracker Larry
I think he worked all night, or he gets up a lot earlier than I do :D All the lacing grommets are installed and the cover temporarily attached with zip ties.

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Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:52 am
by spotsy
That's a classy top.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:09 pm
by Larry B
So it looks like we won't be seeing you topless :lol:
J/K, top looks fantastic. I can only dream of doing work like that.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
I wish I could take credit for even a little bit of it :D

Finished up the last mounting points, drilled and tapped for new anchor light..

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Now it's time to start mounting. Notice he built another set of shims to adjust the leg angle to the new top angle.

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I'm making him take off work tomorrow to take me fishing, starting to get twitchy without a boat :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:59 pm
by AtTheBrink
Looks great Larry! I really like the progress picture. I need one of those tops for my FS18! Only bigger! :wink: :wink:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:41 pm
by Oceola
Simply beautiful !!!!

"The Quality of a mans life is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence."

Author unknown

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:28 pm
by jorgepease
Im going to have to contact him for my poling and casting platform! Beautiful Work!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Im going to have to contact him for my poling and casting platform!
Please do, and call him quick before I get the bill :lol:

We interrupt this thread for a brief commercial announcement.
The above project was brought to us by Raymond Martin.
Martin Marine Design and Fabrication
932 Old Charleston Hwy.
Hardeeville, SC 29927
Shop 843-784-6110
Cell 843-368-4993
email info@martinmarinedesing.com
We went fishing today, the heck with the top :D
Oceola » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:41 pm
Simply beautiful !!!!
It's great to hear from you, it's been a while :D You doing OK?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:56 pm
by AtTheBrink
Cracker Larry wrote:
We went fishing today, the heck with the top :D
Well?!?! :!: :?: How was the fishing? Inquiring minds want to know! :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:27 am
by Cracker Larry
Well?!?! :!: :?: How was the fishing?
Very good :D

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... start=2730

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Almost finished :D

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Still have to install the antennas and spreader lights, and whatever else he wants to do to it. I gave him free reign to do anything he wanted, and he hasn't told me that it's finished yet. We'll see :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:49 am
by wegcagle
Looks great 8) Can't wait to see how it fishes :D

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Can't wait to see how it fishes :D

Well come on down and see :wink: Shake off that pregnant wife and new baby and let's go fishing :lol:

No Excuse is back home :D

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I still have to get all the lights installed, wiring into the console worked out and connected, and the VHF and GPS antennas installed and their wires ran down the legs and connected, but we can fish without all that if necessary.

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I should have her 100% ready to fish again by Saturday :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:00 pm
by AtTheBrink
I bet you are happy to have her home! Raymond did a bang up job on the new T-top. :!: :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:24 pm
by Larry B
Top looks fantastic Larry,

When did you get the new cover? It looks nice also.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:58 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, I'm very pleased with it :D Now it's my turn to get busy, bringing the boat up to the standards set by the top.
When did you get the new cover?
About a year ago, where ya been?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:23 am
by wegcagle
Well come on down and see Shake off that pregnant wife and new baby and let's go fishing
Soon enough Larry...soon enough. Now I just gotta figure out a way to make it her idea.

I always like the approach, "Hey baby remember when you told me that I should do......"

The other approach that seems to work is, "I just picked up this new piece of jewelry because I love you. By the way I'm going fishing next weekend." :lol:

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:38 am
by Cracker Larry
No guts, no glory :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:24 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:Yep, I'm very pleased with it :D Now it's my turn to get busy, bringing the boat up to the standards set by the top.
When did you get the new cover?
About a year ago, where ya been?
Probably off in La La Land someplace, sure as heck didn't see it before, Oh well back to La La Dreaming I had a cover like that :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:05 pm
by AtTheBrink
Larry, do you know if Raymond is still making those jackplates?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dreaming I had a cover like that :D
Do yall have a farm supply store there? This was only $175 at Agri-Supply, great value! http://www.agrisupply.com/quick-shelter/p/46552/
Larry, do you know if Raymond is still making those jackplates?
He will make anything you want :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:02 pm
by AtTheBrink
Emailed him about 30 min ago. Thanks!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:25 pm
by Hope2float
Larry good to see the boat back where it belongs. that canopy offers good interior height at the ridge. The value is great. I would like the same one because of the space inside also the width works out well. I think the neighbors and the wife would shoot me if I expanded my outside garage. You once stated that about my work space. If it is not raining I do prefer to work outside anyway. No space constraints out there. I am looking forward to the updates to "No Excuse". That top is top notch and it only made the boat look that much better.
Dave

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:23 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Your new top looks awesome Captain :D I didn't think the old one looked bad, the new one is over the top nice though...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:24 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry good to see the boat back where it belongs. that canopy offers good interior height at the ridge.
Thanks Dave, I had to search a while to find one high enough for the T-top to fit under, most are much shorter. I'm surprised at how well it's holding up, it's been through some pretty good storms :D I figured if it lasted a year it was worth the money, but I think it will make it several years. Of course, we don't get snow like you do either.
I didn't think the old one looked bad, the new one is over the top nice though...
I didn't think it was that bad either, but when you have an OCD friend like Raymond wanting to make a top that really fits, what the heck. At least he's happy with it now and I won't have to listen to him nitpick :lol: Wish it would quit raining so I can get it wired up, but it won't be today.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Still working on the wiring, and it's still raining :? Getting there though, antennas and anchor light mounted,

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Cockpit lights mounted,

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All the wires are run down the legs and into the console, tight fit on some, had to work out a waterproof connection for those,

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Got the GPS and VHF back in service and the 2 communicating with each other so all that DSC stuff works right, still have to get the new lights wired into the switch and fuse panel, but getting close.

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It's a work in progress :D

Rained like heck again today, so Cane and I went to Statesboro to the Yamaha shop. Got a new water pump kit, new filters, gearcase lube, plugs and everything needed for a 100 hour service. We are past due for all that.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:04 pm
by Hope2float
Larry That is ONE FINE TOP. the best one I ever seen.
Dave

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Dave, but I can't take much credit. It's about the finest top I've ever seen too on an 18' boat. Raymond pulled out all the stops :D We still have a sewn in overhead life jacket compartment planned for it, and a couple of other tricks :D He already wants to make new legs too :help: When time and money allow His time and my money :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:42 am
by cape man
I was surprised he let you keep the legs to begin with! :D :D Funny how a true craftsman doesn't like compromise. The guy who gave that first one to me said "I wouldn't put that piece of crap on a Jon Boat!" Just didn't match his standards on the welds and the styling. It was labeled for scrap outside his shop. Appears your pal Raymond is of the same mind.

As I told you originally, if it wasn't for a few sweet little mangrove creeks I like to scoot into, I'd have put that first top on mine. The OD really wears a T-top well.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:45 pm
by tobolamr
Nice looking top. And I really like that crisp blue on it, too!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:44 pm
by Joe H
Larry the top looks GREAT!

Merry Christmas.

Joe & Janet

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Joe and Mark! Merry Christmas to yall too :D My power has been out for a long while and the Internet has been out for days :? It's working at the moment though. We've had some real bad weather lately.

Top rewiring is completed and back to normal. Spent a day servicing the engine, replaced water pump, spark plugs, fuel filters, gear case lube, and greased everything that needs it. It all looked great, I'm very happy to say :D No corrosion, none of the bolts gave any trouble, no water in the lower unit, plugs looked decent for 100 hours of use. It's always good to see that gear lube come out clean and green and no chunks of metal on the drain plug magnet. Good to see the prop come right off and the drive shaft come out of the power head too.

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The impeller had taken a set, but didn't have as much wear as I was expecting considering all the sand and mud it pumps.

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Anodes are original and still in good shape.

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Got to keep plenty of grease on everything and service it before it needs it. If you wait until it needs it, you can't take it apart :wink:

Ready for another year :D Now need to do a good wash, and some sanding and painting.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
I was surprised he let you keep the legs to begin with! :D :D Funny how a true craftsman doesn't like compromise. The guy who gave that first one to me said "I wouldn't put that piece of crap on a Jon Boat!" Just didn't match his standards on the welds and the styling. It was labeled for scrap outside his shop. Appears your pal Raymond is of the same mind.

As I told you originally, if it wasn't for a few sweet little mangrove creeks I like to scoot into, I'd have put that first top on mine.
Well, he didn't want to, but I had a budget and 4 strong legs, neither being real pretty, but adequate :lol: He wouldn't have put it on a jon boat either. He was careful to make the new top section where it would easily accommodate a total leg replacement in the future, so that's his long term plan :D One day he'll have some extra pipe left over from another job and some spare time and it will happen :D

Yall be real careful on the Cape and take some pictures for us wussies, who don't want to sleep in the sand for a week and poop in a hole :lol: If this front that passed through here makes it that far south, stay on the hill and let the SOB blow past. Still blowing 30- 60 here.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:53 pm
by robbiro
Larry,
We had that front pass us during the early morning hours of Christmas Day. Three inches of rain and a gust that was measured at 63 kts. If I had hair, that would have parted it 8O :!: "No Excuse" really has done well for you and I now see how with all of the maintenance that you do to keep it that way.
May the start of your new year bring you much joy and plenty of fish, crabs, shrimp and friends top enjoy it with.
Robbie

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Robbie. Same to you for the New Year.

I do believe in maintenance, rather than repairs, so it gets more than it probably needs. That makes us feel better when we are 30 miles offshore, knowing everything is good rather than wondering if it's good.

Our Internet has been out all week. Waiting on new DSL Modem to arrive. Can't type good on droid.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
Alright, finally got the new DSL modem in and set up :D Back on a real keyboard again :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:04 pm
by AtTheBrink
I like your maintainance plan Larry. I guess you better dot all your i's and cross the T's for crossing the Gulf Stream to that little group of islands off Florida! I am about to put my motor in the shop to make sure it is ready to hang on my boat. What's next on your list?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
Mike, I don't even trust a shop when my and my wife's @ss are the ones on the line :D I do all my engine service myself. A good friend of mine who I fished with last week just got his boat out of the shop for service, and it ran hot the first trip out. We pulled it down and the water pump impeller was worn to a nub, and the shop had charged him for a new one :doh: They didn't even replace it 8O When I do it, I know it's done right. I don't trust anyone but me to service my engine. If you can build a boat, you can service your engine. It isn't that hard.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:49 pm
by AtTheBrink
Wow! 8O That ain't right! I have friend that wrks at a shop and does work at his house on the side. He is going to be riding in this boat so I hope he doesn't short change me like that! This is an older motor that I would like someone with the knowledge to check out throughly and get it running in tip-top shape. I don't want any surprises 40 miles from the ramp. I've got my fingers crossed that I will be able to buy a new motor in a year or so.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:55 pm
by AtTheBrink
I got a quick question for you Larry. What size pipe did you use for the rod tubes on the FS18 you just finished? I was thinking of using 2" schedule 20 pvc but I'm having trouble finding it. Schedule 40 is everywhere but no 20...

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:55 am
by Cracker Larry
I used 1 1/2" gray electrical pipe. I'm pretty sure it's schedule 80. I'll verify that in a while.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, I was wrong on both counts :lol: It was 1 1/4" schedule 40.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:56 pm
by callyb
Cracker Larry wrote:Mike, I don't even trust a shop when my and my wife's @ss are the ones on the line :D I do all my engine service myself. A good friend of mine who I fished with last week just got his boat out of the shop for service, and it ran hot the first trip out. We pulled it down and the water pump impeller was worn to a nub, and the shop had charged him for a new one :doh: They didn't even replace it 8O When I do it, I know it's done right. I don't trust anyone but me to service my engine. If you can build a boat, you can service your engine. It isn't that hard.
I had that happen to me... I'll do my best to keep a long story short.

I was stationed overseas and my Grandfather had my boat (Wellcraft Sportman 250). He sucked up something at some point and decided to take it to a shop for impellers and thermostats (twin OMC 140 Seadrives), I don't believe he took the boat out again until I was back in the states. So, I get back and put 120 some gallons of gas in the boat, drive down to Lewis Delaware from Philly, get the boat in the water and make it about 4-5 miles and we lose the first engine. Turn back and start heading in on the other, make it back to the ramp and as I'm stalling the boat the other one dies. In the current mind you, we get drifting toward some really nice boats tied up. I'm trying to get either one started but nothing, and my grandfather dropped an anchor that never grabbed. And even though we didn't hit anyone's boat, we smash into a private dock. AWESOME RIGHT? It gets better... I'm livid, even making up new curse words and the effing Coast Guard comes walking up (apparently they watched the whole thing happen from their office at the ramp) and asks me if we're hurt, I tell them no and they just walk away. Luckily some nice folks who had just put in towed us over to the ramp since the C.G. had no Interest in offering assistance. So we get the boat out of the the water and are putting the straps back on here and here comes the C.G. guys again. They wrote me a ticket for unsafe operation of a watercraft!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy crap was I mad, in hindsight I'm lucky I didn't get arrested. So, I drove straight to the marina that did the "servicing"... SURPRISE!!!!! He swore up and down that they replaced the parts, and eventually threatened to call the cops if I didn't leave his property. I get back to m Grandparents house and pulled the lower units, and they definitely weren't new, the thermostats were not new. The marina never did anything to make it right...

Sorry it was so long, but that was so long ago it's funny now. I just hope someone else gets a laugh from it.

Moral of the story is, work on it yourself or have someone you actually know you can trust do it! :lol:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:50 pm
by AtTheBrink
Cracker Larry wrote:Well, I was wrong on both counts :lol: It was 1 1/4" schedule 40.
That is surprising! You didn't have any issues storing spinning rods in that pipe? If so, I know I can get sched. 20, 1 1/2".

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:57 am
by Oceola
Cracker Larry wrote:

"It's great to hear from you, it's been a while You doing OK?"

Hey Larry...Yeah I'm OK...just getting older.
I finally gave up on starting my D-15 build. Heck, it took about 6 months to build the scale model...LOL

I figure at age 72 I don't need to be out on the water by myself. I bought a 17' Casita Spirit deluxe trailer (Love it) and use it as base camp up in East Texas and for month long trips to Florida to visit my daughter and SIL...He is a great guy. Just retired from USCG a few years ago (Chief). He ran the 110 footers up and down the Fl. coast for years. Now he works part time at The Marine Discovery Center in New Smyrna Beach, Fl.

When he's not doing that he Captains a 58' Viking sport Fisherman for the guy that owns the waste management company that covers all of Fla...What a sweet setup. He has his 100 ton license.

There's a pic of my trailer in the builders gallery, latest additions, page 3. There's also a pic of a gas grill built into a T top...Richard could do this with his talent. Check it out, pretty cool.

Anyhoo...Have a great new year. Looking forward to your next build.

Frank

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:25 am
by Cracker Larry
Cracker Larry wrote:Well, I was wrong on both counts :lol: It was 1 1/4" schedule 40.
That is surprising! You didn't have any issues storing spinning rods in that pipe? If so, I know I can get sched. 20, 1 1/2".
No, with a 9' cockpit length only the tips of a spinning rod will be in the tubes, if any at all, and all the guides will fit except the stripper guide, even on a large rod. The owners said the boat will be used 100% for fly fishing anyway and fly rods are skinny.
Hey Larry...Yeah I'm OK...just getting older.
I hear ya on that :!: There is a guy in SC that builds a lot of those T-top grills, I thought about doing that with my old top, they look pretty cool!

Stay in touch :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:53 am
by AtTheBrink
Cracker Larry wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote:Well, I was wrong on both counts :lol: It was 1 1/4" schedule 40.
That is surprising! You didn't have any issues storing spinning rods in that pipe? If so, I know I can get sched. 20, 1 1/2".
No, with a 9' cockpit length only the tips of a spinning rod will be in the tubes, if any at all, and all the guides will fit except the stripper guide, even on a large rod. The owners said the boat will be used 100% for fly fishing anyway and fly rods are skinny.
:D
My cockpit is quite a bit shorter. I lengthened both the front and rear decks and the cockpit is just under 7 feet long. That shouldn't make much difference though with 7' rods. Thanks for helping me think that one through! :oops: :doh:

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:54 pm
by ks8
Just saw the updated T top. Beautiful 8) :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:26 pm
by Boater45
CL, what aftermarket hatch did you use for your motorwell access? And what size did you use?

Thanks,

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Will, it is a Tempress Marine 13 X 23. It's OK but not very water tight. Not that it really matters. I've also got a few T&H hatches that are a little better, but not much. Lately I've been using Jim Black and they are good quality for the price.

See http://greatlakesskipper.com/en_us/boat ... ck-hatches for a good selection and prices. These folks have about anything you want 8O

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:26 pm
by Boater45
Thanks Larry!!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:42 pm
by Boater45
One mor thing and I'll leave you alone....for now :lol:
What size duplex wiring do you use on your builds?

Thanks,
Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:18 am
by Cracker Larry
It depends on the use. I use 12 for pumps, radio and spreader lights, 14 for nav lights and most everything else.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:48 pm
by cottontop
CL, I have a 6 inch "jackplate" I got for a real good deal. Why did you not have to have hydraulic steering, when Capeman and Larry B did? I'd like to add this, but don't want to fork out $$$ for hydraulic if I don't have to. I've got it sold(I think) if I don't use it. I really think it would look cool on the boat as well as it might run a little better. John

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sorry John, I missed your question.

My steering cable is tight, but doable and not too tight. It's worked perfectly so far anyway :D It was tighter before the jack plate went on than after. The spacing gave more room for the cable to bend.

If I remember correctly, I think Cape Man has mechanical steering also, but he brought the cable up through the starboard locker top instead of the motor well side and it leads a little better.

Image

Image

My boat performs a lot better with the jack plate. It took a few adjustments to get it dialed in right, but I haven't touched it since.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:44 am
by cottontop
Thanks Larry. I also in another post or email to you was wondering what hole's in the jackplate you mounted your motoer in. I have someone who is going to help me remount my motor and a pic would help too. I know you are very busy with 2 boats now. I really appreciate the help and advice you have given me. Thanks, John

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:39 am
by Cracker Larry
John, mine is mounted in the top set of holes (lowest motor position). I'll get a picture later.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:25 am
by Larry B
This is how I mounted mine.
Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:31 am
by Cracker Larry
Mine is the same, just one hole up. It probably doesn't matter because the jack plate has so much adjustment range anyway.

Image

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:53 pm
by Steven
Hey CL,

What is the height, width and length of your T-Top? I think I need one. Too hot in the sun down here and don't want to work around bimini straps.

Steve

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:12 am
by Cracker Larry
I'll measure it for you after the sun comes up.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:41 am
by Cracker Larry
What is the height, width and length of your T-Top?

7' tall, 5' wide, 7 1/2' long.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:13 am
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:I'll measure it for you after the sun comes up.
Thanks. I found a shop just over an hour away and I'm going up tomorrow to discuss what I want.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:36 pm
by Steven
Hey Larry,

You have any pics of your upper electronics box rigged on the inside? I'm trying to get ideas on how I want to do the inside of mine.

Thanks,
Steven

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
Steven, I do but I just switched computers and have the pics stored, I hope, on an external hard drive. In the process of moving that stuff now but it might take a little while.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:47 am
by Cracker Larry
After much consideration, Mrs. Cracker and I have decided to sell No Excuse. She is a fine boat, safely carried us thousands of miles, from Cape Fear to Cuba, caught a whole lot of fish, and did everything I ever asked her to do. Probably the best boat I've ever owned. But life changes, circumstances change, health issues change, family issues change, finances change, priorities change....

I would never have listed her on the open market, I want her to go where she will be fully appreciated and cared for. TomW and his wife have made us an offer we can't refuse. I know that Tom and Deb will give her a good home and treat her right. Pending final payment, "No Excuse" now belongs to Tom and Deb.

I'm going to miss her, but it will give me an good excuse to build another one, who's name will be "Good Excuse" :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:54 am
by Fred in Wisc
That's unexpected, but as you've said in the past "ain't nothing but a thing"..... Tom's going to have a mighty fine boat.

So, have you figured out if your prior allergic reaction was a result of epoxy exposure? Because that would sure affect your replacement boat plans......

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:32 am
by osotexan
CL,

They are buying one of the finest fishing boats that I've ever seen. I'm glad this thread has moved back up to the first page with your post. I was about to post some kind of question on it to move it back up. My plans, fiberglass and epoxy kit arrived yesterday for my OD18. I sure wish the original pictures were still with this thread as I want to build mine almost exactly as you did "No Excuses". What a fine boat!

Matt

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Matt. I've still got every build picture, thousands of them. If you want to see anything specific just ask.
So, have you figured out if your prior allergic reaction was a result of epoxy exposure?
No, not really :? I'm going to build a FS13 and see how I do with it. From there we'll see where it goes. May be changes in latitude coming in our near future.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:02 pm
by cape man
Wow! Didn't see that one coming!

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:04 pm
by willg
Cracker Larry wrote: No, not really :? I'm going to build a FS13 and see how I do with it. From there we'll see where it goes. May be changes in latitude coming in our near future.
Closer to the equator, Larry?

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep Will, right there at the equator. Someplace where it stays warm, water is clear blue, big fish live, living is cheap and easy and Hillary isn't President. :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wow! Didn't see that one coming!
Got to pay attention Craig, things change like the tides, and we have to change with the tides. It's all good :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:22 pm
by jorgepease
Just in case you find epoxy intolerable, you might want to check into vacuum infusion using a mold. Very little handling of epoxy in comparison. I found when I had to do hand layup that my own allergies started to surface.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:36 pm
by TomW1
It is a pleasure getting No Excuse. Deb and I have been without a boat for to long. We look forward to taking excellent care of her for many more years. We have Lake Fontana here with about every type of cold water fresh water fish there is available. It is approximately 30miles long by 20 miles wide when full in late spring through fall. This makes No Excuse a great boat for the long runs from place to place. The other place we will use her is the Mississippi River just north of Burlington, IA, where we have a cabin right on the bank of the river. We will get the trot lines out again and run them every night and morning. See how many eating size catfish we can catch while we are out there. Then go out and see if we can catch some 10-50 lbrs. for fun. :D 8)

Larry again thank you for selling her to me, it is great to be getting a wonderful boat again. Best wishes on your future plans. :D

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:27 pm
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:Yep Will, right there at the equator. Someplace where it stays warm, water is clear blue, big fish live, living is cheap and easy and Hillary isn't President. :D
Hmmm you know we are happy to give you both a test period over here, just buy the tickets your room will be ready, I can't guarantee you gonna like the island but I can guarantee that warm place, big fish and blue water , hence the drink/name Blue Curacao 8) maybe you 2 will find your paradise over here? I certainly hope so! For sure nothing better as another fishing buddy and good friends close by 8) 8)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
Thanks Peter. We will surely come and visit :D

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:04 pm
by Dog Fish
LOL...Remembering back why you took all those pictures off your post :lol:

Best of luck Larry with what ever you and Mrs. Cracker are going to do ! :)

Brian...hope ya find a cheeseburger in paradise :wink:




Edit: Maybe I should say " Fish Sandwich In Paradise " :)

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:08 am
by jacquesmm
jorgepease wrote:Just in case you find epoxy intolerable, you might want to check into vacuum infusion using a mold. Very little handling of epoxy in comparison. I found when I had to do hand layup that my own allergies started to surface.
Excellent suggestion. Infusion may be overkill for most of our boats but it is a very clean method.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:21 pm
by Joe H
Didn't see this coming either but not suprised, let us know where you land Cracker!

Congrads on a fine boat Tom.

Joe & Jan

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:55 pm
by TomW1
Thanks Joe! :D We really are. If you want to take a vacation down to the Smokies some time we always have a room available. We can take her out and see if we can catch some trout or walleye. :wink:

You staying warm up there. We finally had our first snow flurries on Saturday and freezing temps in the teens this week.

Regards, Tom and Deb

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
LOL...Remembering back why you took all those pictures off your post :lol:
Me too. Ironic isn't it how things go full circle. We say here in the swamp " what goes around comes around". Lot of truth in that. Thanks for the well wishes Brian :D

I had the displeasure of doing my civic obligations today and serving for jury duty. What a miserable day, started at 0730 and we didn't get out until 1930 tonight. My bony azz on a hard wood bench for 12 hours, couldn't smoke a cigarette, couldn't make a drink, couldn't leave to pee or shat, it was freezing in there, literally, heater was broke in the courthouse and it was about 34 degrees.

Listened to a bunch of lawyers spout a bunch of lies and non-sense all day....... but I got through it finally, and about 3 drinks and 3 cigarettes later, and sitting in front of the fire, I'm almost recovered, except for my sore azz.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:47 pm
by Fuzz
Larry I feel for you on the jury duty. I keep winning the prize and getting called at least once every two years. This summer the wife and the boat both got their jury notice on the dame day. I was laughing at them and saying they were taking over for me :lol: Sure enough in the nets days mail I got mine :( Here at 62 you no longer have to serve, that will be a good day.
Fuzz

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think our cut off age of it being required is 62 also, and I'm over that. But as much as I hate it, I feel like I should do it anyway. Don't want to do it again anytime soon though.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:22 am
by Fuzz
Good for you. I think it is our duty to serve. The legal system would love to have nothing but a bunch of sheep. I know if I was ever on trail I would want people who could and would do their own thinking. The only way to affect what comes out of the system is to serve and not be a sheep.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:08 am
by Cracker Larry
Exactly! If I don't do it, who will? It's a convoluted system and slow process, but it's still probably the best in the world. If I were on trial, I'd want it to be handled the same way. And I'd like to see some gray hair in the jury box.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:30 pm
by wegcagle
Can't believe you're selling No Excuse Larry, but congrats Tom. What an amazing boat. That thing will take you anywhere you can handle, and more.

Larry, you still got the plans for that AB23, right. :wink: Mrs. Cracker needs a bigger boat :D

Will

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:45 pm
by TomW1
Thanks Will. We definitely have some plans for her. Once I get my sea legs back, Lake Michigan is only a 4 hr drive from the cabin in Iowa with some great salmon fishing. 8) Can hone my trolling skills here on Lake Fontana for walleye and lake trout(steelhead).

Regards,

Tom

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:22 am
by blueflood
Hi Larry,

I recall seeing a picture of No Excuse (I think) and the rub rail being in the camera frame. Can I ask what did you use ? I remember the sharp corner at side and transom, much like mine. Did it take the change of direction pretty good ? Looked like rubber but unsure of the manufacturer; you probably mentioned in your build.

Still pondering options and cost. Looking at aluminum strip, pine half round, rubber extrusions, hardwood strip, leave as is with modifications etc... I forget the angle of deck at bow but something like 75 degrees (?) so it has to be able to conform to that tight bend also.

I cannot afford Tessilmare :roll:
...anyone else with ideas ? please pipe in :D

Marc

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Marc, the rub rail is made by Taco. It's very heavy duty, solid rubber about 2 1/2" X 1 1/4", with a rubber piping insert. I think I bought it from Greatlakeskipper.com. It is almost tugboat tough, but it was a biotch to put it on. Biggest problem was that we did it on a cold day and it was like wrestling a python. Had to boil it in a 30 gallon crab pot to make it limber, then stretched it with a come-along attached to fence posts. It gave Mrs. Cracker and I a fit, but we got it done.

On the corners at the transom I had to cut a "V" notch on the inside of each corner and use a heat gun to make the bends. At the bow there was no way to make that bend. I cut it into 2 sections in a miter joint then filled the small gap with black 5200.

Re: Cracker Larry's OD 18

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:48 pm
by blueflood
Hi Larry...OK thank you. All those brands I looked at and are excellent except nothing is practical for my boat :roll: I cannot find the right rubber extrusion for my design except a solid half round which I am considering;
http://www.acmerubber.com/round.htm

Time to sketch a few ideas. Work boat tough, that's what I need :lol: I may hang a handful of tires on both sides...I can imagine the scrapes and bumps the first year...and more after :lol:

Marc