Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:57 pm**

A new project.

FS17 with lowered sheer and larger casting decks. I will keep the same sheer line, just lowered by about 4". Casting decks will be large, sole length will be 6'. No console, but a box a small box in the middle for gas and storage (also seat). Motor will be mounted on a hydraulic jack plate directly to the transom, no motor well. I will probably build a poling platform and a "hand rail" out of carbon fiber tubes.

Boat will be used 90% in the Indian River

The molds are cut, next week we will have the panels ready and maybe even have the strongback finished (all cut on the CNC) - this will be a quick one

Joel

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:03 pm**

Sounds nice...........come down here to show us all how it's done,have you

I look foward to it,should teach me a few things
Steve

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:12 pm**

We want pic and videos like the FS14..

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:33 pm**

We want pic and videos like the FS14..

Thats the idea. We will show things that keep coming up in the forum, and test new products.

Things to show:

mixing quick fair with scale

more fairing tips/tricks
stitching/taping
glassing the whole bottom at once; wet on wet
we may build a gas tank from epoxy/glass/wood

any other suggestions?

Things to test:

Epoxies, new formulations and new products
making carbon fiber parts
new epoxy for gas tanks
new filler combinations

Joel
[/i]

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:43 pm**

Great project!

So why the lower sides? And how did you decide that 4" was the right reduction?

Tag

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:50 pm**

Shine,
Looks like the race is on on this one, although I think it will be a bit of turtle and the hare scenario,probably with the expected outcome rather than the unexpected outcome of the old fable. Probably a good thing though, I can just shadow your build and hopefully minimize mistakes!

Especially when it comes to the fairing, looking forward to seeing those tips! I'm getting started on the strongback soon, but my schedule takes the build to next June.
On another note, Joel, did you ever get in touch with Mickey?
Donny

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:57 pm**

Sure must be nice in that river, no chop, all these low-freeboarded boats with big monster casting decks.....

Looking forward to some photos, SPECIFICALLY how you are going to build this transom and no motorwell.

E

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:06 pm**

What about a small side console somewhat like this:

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:18 pm**

That will be a nice build Joel, can't wait to see the progress and piccies, good luck mate.

Have you decided on power yet?

Mick

Posted: **Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:59 am**

So why the lower sides? And how did you decide that 4" was the right reduction?

Tag - Jacques cut it in 3D for me and it looked right at 4", plus the casting decks get too low if we cut it down more.

Donny - I am going to build the hull as designed, after drawing out some of those mods we spoke about at the meeting, I think it would just complicate things too much, with only a slight benefit. I have not called Mickey, but I will soon - I need another board

Sure must be nice in that river, no chop, all these low-freeboarded boats with big monster casting decks.....

Looking forward to some photos, SPECIFICALLY how you are going to build this transom and no motorwell.

E

Eric, your right the river is nice and calm most of the time. Its does whip up in the afternoons and in the spring - so the added sheer towards the bow will be nice. The water is warm, so a little spray is a price Im willing to pay for less windage (slower drift) and ease of getting in and out (we wade fish a lot). I think the transom will just have nice uninterrupted camber, and there will be a hatch through the rear casting deck to access the jackplate mounting bolts

What about a small side console somewhat like this:

Jay - I thought about the side console, but if I want a cooler/seat/tank box in the center - there is not enough room. The remote steering and throttle mean more work and less room. For the indian river, a console it really not needed. If I were using the boat in more open water where standing with a tiller is too rough (crossing sounds or in the ocean) i would absolutely have a console

Have you decided on power yet?

Mick - For power Im thinking F40 Yamaha, but i will switch if i can get a deal another motor

Posted: **Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:23 am**

I'm looking forward to your build. I like your FS12 pics... I check them often. I think the FS17 will be perfect cut down with the big deck! I really like the shape of the boat. I can see lots of variations with this boat.
On a side note... the Aquasport rebuild pics are great. I check them often as well!

Posted: **Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:57 am**

Oh Joel....

Building overpowered........

I bet Jacques was thrilled to hear that.....

E

Posted: **Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:24 pm**

Spokaloo wrote:Oh Joel....

Building overpowered........

I bet Jacques was thrilled to hear that.....

E

A 40 will be OK, the problem is there is not a F30.

Who knows, I may go with a 2 stroke 25; they are available with electric start . They are also about half the cost.

Posted: **Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:22 pm**

What's wrong with a Merc 30?

Tom

Posted: **Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:47 pm**

Hey Shine,

If JMM rendered the low shear for you already, can you post those pics? I'm curious what goal you're aiming toward.

Tag

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:22 am**

maybe soon, Jacques has been working on some network issues the last day

Posted: **Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:17 am**

Excellent. I'm very interested in seeing this build. I"ve considered exactly that mod. Maybe not making the casting decks quite as large.

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:31 pm**

Maybe a stupid question, but if you extend the decks the sole only needs to be the length of the cockpit, not the full length from E to A as in the plans? I was planning on running it from E all the way to A.

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:23 pm**

Exactly Donny. The casting decks make up for the sole. I believe the only other place you will need a peice of sole is in the rear for the transom. May be wrong there. Just build up the last frames to the height of the casting decks. Don't get me wrong you can put soles in if you want for storage, and to cover the foam if you use it, but you don't need to. And I might use a lighter plywood for them.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:35 pm**

Why casting decks???

Posted: **Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:26 pm**

Shine,

Are you going to follow the sheer line of the FS, or flatten the sheer to look like a phantom, or do something in between?

Tag

Posted: **Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:47 pm**

FS17 update:

8 pages of pictures in the gallery...

http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=867

Last week we finished cutting the side panels, transom, and stringer. The MDF mold were already cut. The MDF molds are all disposable.

In our CNC kits, we are now supplying these MDF molds and bow mold. Note our new notched â€œsnap togetherâ€

Posted: **Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:32 pm**

By next week we will see you in it

Very quick! Lookin' good!

Posted: **Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:46 pm**

Show off...

very nice.. You make it look like I could even do it..

I bet that pre-cut kit helps.. Looks like it lines up perfectly..

Posted: **Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:47 pm**

Hey Joel, can you pack a white t-shirted kid to be an assistant with each kit? He sure would come in handy getting those cardboard rolls in place for us build-alone guys.....

Looks good!

E

Posted: **Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:27 pm**

Very nice Joel!

Tom

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:21 am**

Great Tutorial, Joel.

I hope I can afford a pre-cut kit for my next build. I think it will be much more fair not to mention less frustrating.

Thanks for all the pics

Huck

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:14 am**

mecreature wrote: I bet that pre-cut kit helps.. Looks like it lines up perfectly..

Thats the only reason it all went together so quickly. I do not have the skill or patience to cut panels that accurately

The molds/jig was huge time saver. The mold all rest on the same plane, so there are no upright supports to mess with - just two 2x6 for the molds to rest on, then snap in the stringers.

One thing I forgot to mention is the bow mold hooks into the first two mold stations - this aligns the bow mold perfectly and hold the first two molds at 90 degrees. Then the stringer go into their notches in the mold and everything is square

Hey Joel, can you pack a white t-shirted kid to be an assistant with each kit? He sure would come in handy getting those cardboard rolls in place for us build-alone guys....

That is Joseph, he does all our packaging and shipping of materials. He did a much of the finish work on the Aquasport, and he will help me some on this boat. We build a few surfboards together and he is getting very good with epoxy/glass.

Having a hand for the zip tie was nice

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:43 am**

Looking Good Joel, goin' together very quickly!

With this modification what are the necessary structures for the motor well/aft end of the boat? I noticed you made the stringers with "knees", will there still be a motorwell bulkhead? One other question, is the MDF 1/2" or 3/8" and do you sell that to the non kit guys? It always seems to be stored with a big bend in it at the big box stores, not to mention it seems a little pricey at 20 some bucks a sheet.
On another note, is it alright if I have Mickey call you about the surfboard stuff? I feel like the middle man on this and I think I need to be eliminated in order to for this to start moving!

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:01 pm**

About the braces.
Since there is no motorwell and no motorwell sides to act as braces, I had to incorporate the bracing in the stringers.
In the standard version, the motorwell sides do the job.
If we have to design a kit for the standard version, I may very well incorporate those same braces in the stringers just to make the assembly easier. We'll see when somebody orders that kit.

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:04 pm**

Now your making me feel ashamed of how long it has taken me to build mine

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:42 pm**

Rule number 3:

Never be ashamed. You have built a boat. Millions of human beings haven't and most never will.

You really meant to say "I'm proud I have built a boat. Next time I'll build one better and faster than I have built this one."

Cheers

Tony

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:19 pm**

I'm with you, Steve. I feel inadequate.

Tony, it may take awhile to embrace Rule number 3.

Nice work, Joel.

Mike

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:01 pm**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rAHnwWfsaY

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoqDYcCDOTg&NR=1

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:52 pm**

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:55 pm**

Great build.

Why is the fill for the transom plug green? I see you used fiber glass strands but that should not make the epoxy green...

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:40 pm**

dborecky wrote:Great build.

Why is the fill for the transom plug green? I see you used fiber glass strands but that should not make the epoxy green...

I put in a bit of pigment so it would be easier for be to locate the epoxy plug through all the glass that going on soon

The fillers in the plug are milled fibers, chopped glass, and a little wood flour

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:00 pm**

That's a neat idea

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:14 pm**

After stitching up the hull on Friday we "tack weld" the panels together. We started by brushing epoxy (neat epoxy) in the gap to seal the end grain of the plywood. We then used mix of epoxy/wood flour to fill the gaps. A heavy duty zip lock bag makes this a fast job.

After the epoxy cures we removed the zip ties and most of the screws. Then with a grinder we knocked off off the messy spots and put a very rough edge on the joints. A grinder saves a lot of time vs. a sander at this point, just be careful not to go too far

With the 6" DA sander and 80 grit paper we round off the joints to tight radius.

The next step is to glass the entire bottom. I want to do it all wet on wet in one work period - so it will probably have to wait until Thursday or Friday when we have more time. I am guessing it will take two of us 3
hours from start to finish.

Anyone want to come and help with some epoxy work

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:49 pm**

I tried that ziplock bag thing... that stuff heats up way to quick for me to be any good with it...

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:59 pm**

You have to go real fast, maybe 4 inches a second.

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:00 pm**

All I can say is Good God Man! Joel you didn't give me enough of a head start, jeez I haven't even started yet!:lol: Jacques thanks for the reply on the bracing! SWMBO is tyin' me up with the honey do list.

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:19 pm**

shine wrote:You have to go real fast, maybe 4 inches a second.

would it help to use a real slow hardener? I have one here wich can be used for 7 hours @ 22Â°C.
Another one with 5 hours. I used this on several speaker cabinet projects and you could mix 1kg in a bottle and it gets only handwarm (the you only have about 45minutes).
Could this be a solution?

thanks
martin

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:03 pm**

Joel - Do you fill the zip tie holes with epoxy or epoxy glue before glassing???
Cheers
Richard

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:49 pm**

Nobody's slower than old Dougster, and slow hardener Silvertip worked just fine for me with the ziplock deal. Never lost a batch, and if you're slower than me, well......nah. Re speed of build, I don't guess it matters much. I figure the longer it takes the more fun for the money. Again, well...
Have yall ever heard the backpackers prayer? "You pick 'em up Lord, and I'll put 'em down".

Puttin' 'em down Dougster

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:52 pm**

martin, they are regularly working in 28-32C temps there, might be a bit warmer than your beautiful weather.

Joel, you ever use real icing bags (the disposable kind)? Price is actually less than a zippered bag, and the batch sizes are a hair smaller.

E

Posted: **Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:40 pm**

Is there any thought of making this a stock option? I have the plans for this boat, but had just about ruled it out in favor of another design. the low sheer makes it more appealing for me.

jbo

Posted: **Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:49 am**

rcihard wrote:Joel - Do you fill the zip tie holes with epoxy or epoxy glue before glassing???
Cheers
Richard

Yes, right before taping the seams we fill them with putty. While that putty is still malleable we glass the seams - this saves the step of letting it harden, the sanding/shaping the joints again.

We will show this when we do all the glassing - hopefully we will have some time to set aside today or tomorrow to glass the entire outside

Posted: **Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:57 pm**

mecreature wrote:I tried that ziplock bag thing... that stuff heats up way to quick for me to be any good with it...

Keep your epoxy in the fridge.

It helps.

Posted: **Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:37 pm**

Spokaloo wrote:
Joel, you ever use real icing bags (the disposable kind)? Price is actually less than a zippered bag, and the batch sizes are a hair smaller.

E

I will look into getting some of those for the inside - thanks

Posted: **Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:01 pm**

The bottom is glassed. It took two of us about 4 hours from the time we put our gloves on to the time finished. We used a 3 gallon kit of silvertip epoxy. Temps were 90+ the entire time

We have the glass measured and cut in advance; all the tape pieces and the wide cloth

The we start with the Biaxial tape joints.

We used two layers of tape on all the joints.

Then we rolled out epoxy on the rest of the bare wood

Then came the wide biax cloth. Make sure you roll it out very smooth! Its very difficult to fix kinks once it rolled onto wet epoxy. We over lapped the keel on each side by about 10 inches.

make slits on the bow and transom so the cloth will wrap around...

Wet out wide cloth. This was done about 30 minutes or so after the tape, so it was easy to push the two together for no air bubbles. For wetting out cloth, I like to use a roller. On the chines and overlaps we use a 2" brush and maybe a 6" plastic squeegee to pull things tight and move around excess epoxy.

port side wet out

Both sides wet out

I decided against Kevlar on the bottom, but I may add some extra scrap cloth on the bottom - I plan to ground the boat a lot on shell/rock islands

Next we will glue on rubrails. Add cloth to the bottom. Add runners to the bottom.

Im thinking of simple triangle shape runners made from fiberglass going about 2/3 the way up the hull. Will make them in a simple mold and epoxy them to the hull just outside the stringer location so that they also act a guide when putting the boat on a trailer.

Joel

Posted: **Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:57 pm**

Wow, it is looking great Joel! I can not wait to see more. It is amazing what you can do with some plywood and glue.

Posted: **Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:31 pm**

I'd be afraid, especially working alone, to wet the hull then try and roll on big pieces of glass like that, but it sure looks like a good way if you can do it. I'd make a mess and be alone with it struggling to get the wrinkles out.

Has his limitations Dougster

Posted: **Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:25 pm**

I'm not sure I could do the wide cloth thing on my own either,but it sure saves time.If I do this boatbuilding thing again

,I will have to enlist/bribe with beer a helper.
What are you going to use for a skeg,if you are going to use one at all?
Steve

Posted: **Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:49 pm**

Just wait a few hours and its cake. You can get to a period where the epoxy is still really green but not nearly as tacky. Just takes some patience.

Tighter than a frog's ass Joel.

E

Posted: **Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:21 am**

Nice job Joel. You blokes make it look so easy.......Is that the power plant I see under plastic, 50 Honda.

Can't wait to see the sheer when she is flipped, it looks great upside down!

Mick.

Posted: **Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:54 am**

Very nice job Joel. Can't wait to see this complete instructional series.\n
Tom

Posted: **Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:06 am**

Joel,....

to build with such speed and precision..... you suck....

Posted: **Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:19 am**

Thanks guys.

Its the CNC machine that makes it fast and accurate - not us

There was two of us working, one person mixing most of the 24 ox batches and the other spreading. Working this way, you will move fast. In the tim it takes to mix a 24 ox batch, the second person has used the previous 24 oz.. When you get to a spot were you need more time, split the batch into 2 pots and both people work.

Joel

Posted: **Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:57 am**

Wow, that cuts time out heavily compared to my one-guy, one-cup method at 9 oz at a time.....

E

Posted: **Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:08 pm**

Spokaloo wrote:compared to my one-guy, one-cup method at 9 oz at a time.....

E

wat's wrong with that ? I did it the same way

And Joel really nice job is that you in the pic's?

Posted: **Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:22 pm**

That is Joseph in the pictures. I am the one behind the camera

Even the largest lamintions can be done by one man, with the right prep work. But having an extra set of hands for those big laminations cuts the time by at least 2/3.

I will be doing most of the rest of the work myself; rubrail gluing, fairing, etc..

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:44 am**

It does look easy.. I am with the others no way I would try that whole mess at once..

Not bad shine.

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:35 pm**

Joel, you are sooo good.

I see Joseph is becoming an expert like you.

Say hello

Bushmaster

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:22 pm**

Got an hour or so in this afternoon. With the kits we are now including the rubrail strips. Another time saver

I wanted to try a different method for the rubrail.

Used screws and the drill to dry-fit the strips into place. Started at the bow and did one hole at a time (drilled while holding in place with hand, then used the screw to hold it in place while working forward). it worked well, the sheer is fair. Forcing the twist into the wood rubrail strip every 6-12 inches with predrilled holes is much easier than trying to hold the strip in place (with glue on it) and then tighten a clamp with you second hand.

I used one of the gelmagic mixing cartridges to apply the epoxy glue. A huge time saver and its also very clean. The cartridges do not hold much glue, I used a full cartridge for each side. Gelmagic glue is very gap filling and its "wet" enough that you do not need to pre-coat the wood.

I definately like the screw method, beats wrestling with clamps with hands full of epoxy glue. It also may give a more fair line.

Using the gelmagic cartridges was nice, but making your own glue is not much more work.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:45 pm**

shine wrote:Using the gelmagic cartridges was nice, but making your own glue is not much more work.

It looks like it would be just the thing for gluing up birdsmouth masts and other such assemblies. Good control with the gun applicator, but you don't have to worry about the batch kicking while you make adjustments like you would with a regular caulking tube.

Posted: **Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:10 pm**

The cartridges would be perfect for those type applications

Posted: **Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:26 pm**

Put on the second layer of rubrail today. We will probably stop with 2 layers on the inside and then add 2 more layers to the inside (shear clamp).

Took a few shots of the fairing to be done..... no much

Before putting on the rube rail, we put a extra layer of 9 oz cloth on the bottom. I plan on running her up on the spoil islands quite a bit, so I wanted some added protection. We trimmed that extra layer of glass so it fit in between the tape seams/overlaps. This has the effect of fairing the humps of glass on the joints from all the over laps. You can see it in the pictures.

After wetting out the extra layer of glass, we made a couple batches of epoxy/silica/woodflour slurry ans filled the weave of the biax all over

[before all of this we used the sander with 60 grit to knock down the stitching of the biax and any proud glass spots]

Later today, I hope to start fairing

Posted: **Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:06 pm**

You filled the weave with woodflour? I would have expected an epoxy/silica/microballoons mix. Won't the woodflour be very difficult to sand?

Posted: **Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:32 pm**

I do not intended to sand it

I only filled the weave with it, you can see it in this picture....

If the slurry is loose or thin enough, you can spread it all around with a plastic squeegee. When you apply enough pressure, it only fills the weave holes in the biax. Sort of like filling the depressions in a waffle with butter

I suppose I will have to sand it a little in any spots where I did not clean up, but that will only take a few minutes.

The filler I used is 2 part woof flour to 1 part silica by weight, the silica makes it smooth

Posted: **Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:01 pm**

Applied first fairing to hull. We used mixed our own with epoxy and blended filler. The purpose of this first fairing is to fill in the large and obvious lows. We used plastic spreaders an larger drywall spreaders with metal blades. My personal favorite is the 11" spreader same as the big one in the picture, just not so long - you can really make clean lines with it as it does not deform when you put pressure on it.

You can really see the lows/highs in these shots...

The way I do it is slop on the putty along the low depression (edge of fiberglass overlap), then use a plastic spreader to move it around evenly. Then I use the metal spreader an make one pull across the entire surface keeping the edge of one side of the blade on the high edge.

thats all for this week

Posted: **Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:23 pm**

You're doing an incredible job Joel. How tall will the low shear version sit off of the water line? Also do you expect the draft to be the expected 7" or will it sit a little higher on the water? By the way, I'm getting ready to see how the poling platform will come together.

Oh well patience is a virtue (or so I keep getting told)

Posted: **Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:04 am**

Awesome build and some really nice tips spread through out your post.

Can't wait to see this one finished in record time.

Very nice Joel

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:39 am**

The boat should be about 400 pounds less engine/gear/fluids. This will bring the daft down to 6" from the DWL. Adding 2 men, gear, and fluids should make it about 300-400 pounds under the the designed displacement. With a PPI of around 350" the boat will float 1" higher.

In such a small boat, you can see the place to save weight is in the engine/gear/and choice of fishing partner

The hull weight becomes a smaller percentage of the entire displacement

Posted: **Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:07 am**

Yesterday afternoon I was able to start the fairing. The blended filler fairing we applied Friday afternoon was VERY hard by now

I used three tools:

A Stanley Sureform
A large flexible fairing board (with 60 grit paper)
6" DA sander with 80 grit (I would have used 60 if I had it handy)

The sureform makes quick work of removing blobs of putty and taking down very high spots

Then I move to the fairing board. The board is long enough to span low spots - you only hit the highs. This shows were you need to fill in more later. In the pictures you see were the faring board removed the blended filler from the highs and left it in the lows. Move the board at 45 degree angles.

After removing highs with the board, I smooth everything out with the DA. The lows are still easy to differentiate.

This is what she look like after the first sanding of fairing...

Notice how the fairing board exposed the fiberglass splices in this picture - they get quick fair

You can really see the lows spots that we missed in the initial fairing pass...

This area was pretty good...

You can also see that I put some 6 oz tape of the rubrails. I did not wrap the tape, just trimmed it flush. When the boat is flipped, i will round over th rails with a router, then put some biax tape of the rubrail and inwale. The boat will only have a rubrail/inwhale

After the sanding, I had enough time to get a couple batch of Quickfair on the bottom and transom.

Quickfair spreads much more smooth, so you can really feather in the putty. Here we are filling in the lows towards the bow (in the previous shots you can see where these lows used to be)

(BELOW) Fairing either side of the fiberglass splice (high spot). Notice that there is no reason to put faring on the high spot, thats a waste. We put one edge of the spreader on the edge of the high and drug the putty down. You will not get it perfect the first pull, take any excess from the first pull and reposition it so that on the second pull it fills in spots you missed in the first attempt. It make take a few pull until you get it just right

Transom was pretty good, just needed to fill in a little...

This area bottom/transom was a really very close to fair, just a pass to fill in spot missed by the first fairing...

Next I will make runners/strakes/sprayrails - I have to find a good mold at the home store for this. After gluing down the runners, I will create a sharp edge on the chine and bottom.

At that point, Im going to apply my new barrier coat epoxy product and flip her. I will wait until the inside is finished to do the final fairing/primer on the sides.

Joel

Posted: **Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:49 pm**

Sanded the quick fair with the DA and 80 grit paper.

The bottom looks close to the primer stage. Before any more faring, we must epoxy down the runners/strakes.

We are not fairing the sides until we sharpen the chine edge. Made "molds" from cheap thin plywood covered in packing tape.

These get screwed to the side of the hull. holes are pre-drilled so not to crack anything. later I will drill the holes bigger, so I can fill them well with epoxy/woodflour.

We squirt thickened epoxy into the gap. After its cured we pull off the "molds" and plane the edge down so we have a nice sharp transition. This helps water separate from the hull at the chine

Found some aluminum angle at the home store that looked about right for runners....

After giving it a coating with mold release, we filled the angle with epoxy/milled fibers/chopped glass and little strips of tape.

It turned out pretty well. We will make three more 8' lengths, then glue then to the bottom just outside the stringer location

Posted: **Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:07 pm**

That's a neat idea with the runners

Posted: **Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:19 pm**

I like the runners! Great idea! Quick you are, quick

Posted: **Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:35 pm**

Shine great minds seem to think alike

, that's what I bought all that milled fiber for on this order. Hope I got enough. It is a super idea glad you showed me how to do it. I was going to use wood and plastic wrap, your aluminum and mold release looks easier and I'll add the chopped glass, I was going to use sawdust and silica.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:47 pm**

I like the runner molds, Joel

Posted: **Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:34 pm**

Good Idea Joel.

I'm sure you've thought of it but for others...make sure you clean off ALL the mold release from the runners.

Frank

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:45 pm**

Using a zip lock bag we pumps the gaps on the chine with epoxy/silica/woodflour making sure to push it down into the gap as much as possible.

We pulled off the molds and planed down the excess with a sureform, then sharpened them with the sanding block.

drilled the crew holes out a little bigger to insure we get plenty of epoxy in there. Used a trimmed up 1" brush to wet out the wood, then squire some thickened epoxy in the hole.

These are the sureforms we use...

Next we progress to Quick Fair on the sides and chines. We used two 10 oz batches. You can see how it fills to gaps in our chine. (the quick fair is the smooth cream colored putty)

these are the fairing tool we use. 2 dry wall spreaders and a 6" plasic squeegee

I found that the splice area towards the bow is going to need some extra fairing (thats where you see the build up of putty)

The Quickfair is ready to sand in 4 hours.

We start by sanding with the large flexible fairing board. This is the 30" hook and look style from 3M. used 60 grit paper.

sanding tools; fairing board and sanding block (60 grit)

After the sanding block remove all the highs, we go over the whole surface with 80 grit on the 6" DA sander

see the low spots that need one more Quickfair pass

We will hopefully get a pass of quick fair on this afternoon, then maybe glue down the runners/strakes tomorrow. Getting close to the first primer

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:40 pm**

Looks nice, Joel. I miss the purple Quick Fair though...

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:48 pm**

Rick wrote:Looks nice, Joel. I miss the purple Quick Fair though...

We have some dark blue pigment

The new QF hides much better, the old stuff would made a very dark background even through a couple coats of primer. But I know what you mean about contrast helping to show highs/lows

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:57 pm**

That is a very neat trick with the chines

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:54 pm**

see the low spots that need one more Quickfair pass:)[/quote]

Just one more uh..

I would be 2 months before I got to priming..

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:55 pm**

Cracker Larry wrote:That is a very neat trick with the chines

I did this on my transom where it meets the bottom of the hull. I used a few pieces of foamcore (from a craft store) and used a few drops of superglue to attach it to the transom. When I was done, most of it pulled right off and the paper residue came off easily with sandpaper. Very fast, and makes a nice sharp line.

-Mike

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:50 pm**

made a video of how we like to measure quickfair....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nKmjFozTAE

Posted: **Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:31 am**

Shine you make it look easy

Posted: **Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:57 am**

Good video.
I can tell it's warm there by the viscosity of the putty

.

Posted: **Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:49 pm**

more fairing, we have been doing one pass a day each time we find another little spot. After sanding with the long board and DA, we mark with a pencil where we need more quickfair.

Also you can make pencil marks (swirl) over an area of QF before hitting it with the long board - the highs get removed and the lows are where you can still see the pencil

BEFORE

AFTER SANDING WITH LONG BOARD

Today we glued on the strakes/runners. We marked a straight line 15" off the center (15" from center - not 15" down the hull, use a level and square to mark several 15" points, then connect them with a line). The white batten is a long piece of composite trim that we find very handy as a flexible fairing batten - I used it to draw the line. The strakes will follow on the inside of that line. That location should put the strakes just outside the trailer bunks (which are directly over the stringers)

Today we glued down the strakes/runners. We used System Three gelmagic cartridges to make the job clean. The strakes are flexible enough that the take the shape of the bottom without much fuss. A few pieces of tape and a couple weights and they are glued down. Gelmagic is hard (not cured yet) after only a couple hours....

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:06 am**

I really like the idea of he gelmagic stuff! Does it cure hard? Is is basically epoxy? I guess it does, but how well does it hold in comparison to mixed (jug) epoxy?

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:12 am**

jgroves wrote:I really like the idea of he gelmagic stuff! Does it cure hard? Is is basically epoxy? I guess it does, but how well does it hold in comparison to mixed (jug) epoxy?

I have wondered the same thing..

I will also ask

How does it compare in cost?

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:13 am**

jgroves wrote:I really like the idea of he gelmagic stuff! Does it cure hard? Is is basically epoxy? I guess it does, but how well does it hold in comparison to mixed (jug) epoxy?

Its the same gelmagic epoxy glue that System Three puts in the jugs. Its extremely good glue if you look at the technical properties.

The cartridges are expensive if you compare them to the cost of the volume of the same epoxy in a jug. BUT I can tell you they not only save A TON of time and make for clean work - there is virtually zero waste.

I used the same cartridges when I laminated the rubrails.

On big glue jobs (transoms, stringers, butt blocks, etc) its much easier to mix bigger batches from the jugs. For small jobs the cartridges a very nice

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:58 am**

Gelmagic sounds like a great product. The cartridge would probably end up saving me money as the waste factor is nearly eliminated. With small jobs on my boat I would end up over mixing nearly every time. I wish I had all the epoxy I wasted. I could probably have a nice start on another boat.

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:03 am**

It is a great product, very very strong and if I understand correctly it stays a little bit flexible to

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:06 am**

Shine,
Does the gelmagic you sell come with the tip?

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:56 am**

each cartridge comes with a mixing and dispensing tip.

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:06 am**

Uh oh, is it now a carbon composite boat Joel? Guess I mean, is that CF tape on the strake/runner? If it is, would you suggest using cf tape on these types of runners where the brunt any ground/log/shell impact would occur?

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:09 am**

That's a great price! Locally I can get it, but it's without tip and retail is 24 bucks. Great price man! I need to find something else to build.

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:18 am**

Gramps wrote:Uh oh, is it now a carbon composite boat Joel? Guess I mean, is that CF tape on the strake/runner? If it is, would you suggest using cf tape on these types of runners where the brunt any ground/log/shell impact would occur?

no, no thats just black pigment

I would never use carbon fiber in the strakes for the reason you suggest

Joseph made the last strake in the mold, and i guess he wanted to try some black pigment for fun.

the strakes are made of epoxy, milled fibers, chopped glass, and some scrap woven tape (and pigment in one of them

)

Joel

That's a great price! Locally I can get it, but it's without tip and retail is 24 bucks. Great price man! I need to find something else to build.

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:52 pm**

Joel,
Great info; thanks for sharing. Photos are worth thousands of words.
Didn't see the gelmagic on your site. I'd like to order some.

In mixing wood flour, silica and resin for the sharp transom and chine edges, what proportions of wf and silica did you use?
Tnx.
Gil

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:00 pm**

saltponder wrote: In mixing wood flour, silica and resin for the sharp transom and chine edges, what proportions of wf and silica did you use?

Gil,

I did not measure them, sorry. The woodflour/silica is mixed at 4/1 by weight - to that I added a handfull of milled fibers. Milled fibers do not thicken up the epoxy very much. You cant really get it wrong unless you mix it so thick so that you cannot force the mix between the mold and the hull

here is the link to the cartridges...

http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... _cartridge

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:29 pm**

rolled on a little System Three primer

Two coats on port side and transom, only 1 so for on starboard. Have used a total of 1 quart so far.

I need to change the setting on the camera, these shots are fuzzy.

Overall, Im very pleased. I kept looking for dips or wiggles, but could not see anything but minor fills.

port side/transom corner

in this shot you can see the transition from hard chine, to the more rounded bow. I ended the sharp portion of the chine 24" back from the bow and just blended it in to the round portion with fairing. This is the "sculpting" part

Next comes the bottom barrier coating. We have a new product to test here below the waterline

Hopefully that goes on next week, then we flip her.

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:58 pm**

I keep saying how fast your building the boat! However I should probably mention the great job your doing first! Great work! Are you keeping the boat when you finish?

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:28 pm**

thanks for the complimet.

Yes, she stays with me

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:55 pm**

Shine what a nice job your doing. I have forgotten how hard it is to properly fair a boat especially a 40 year old rebuild. You are really doing a nice job and I know you will enjoy her when you are done.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:49 pm**

Sweet.

What are you going to paint her with?

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:54 pm**

I notice you round the transom edge where it meets the side panels. Should I do that? I have that edge very sharp now, as, of course, is the corner where the transom meets the bottom and side panels. It does seem pretty sharp to hold paint.

Still walking the fair road Dougster

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:58 am**

Joel,

The 4" you chopped off of the sheer should help minimize "hull sail" effect when poling. Did you consider rounding off the chine at the bow to minimize slap when poling? That would have been an awful lot of extra work considering what the guys have reported in doing the same on the Flats Stalker 18s--whether or not it would have been worth it is another matter. I suspect that those Indian River Reds have heard and seen it all and know the words to every Jimmy Buffet song.

Looking forward to seeing your "box" design on the sole. Glad to see another project that dispenses with a center console. Beautiful work.
Gil

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:57 am**

Sweet. Cool What are you going to paint her with?

Larry, she is going to get sterling paint, with kiwigrip non-skid. I have not given much thought to colors though

Im not going to paint her until the end. the are still plenty of hole to drill and fill (cockpit drains, drain holes on rear casting deck, jack plate, maybe a baitwell pump, etc..)

I notice you round the transom edge where it meets the side panels. Should I do that?

Dougster, it doesnt really matter for the sides. I like them rounded for aesthetics, but the hull bottom edges are sharp so that the water separates cleanly when running on plane = more efficient. When re rebuilt the 22 Aquasport, we sharpened them.

The 4" you chopped off of the sheer should help minimize "hull sail" effect when poling

reducing windage was the main reason for lowering the sheer

Did you consider rounding off the chine at the bow to minimize slap when poling?

not really, there will be hardly any slap as is. I did not have rounded chines on my last PH16 and it was very quiet. We have large schools of redfish here, but they do not get hardly any pressure compared to the one on TV up in Titusville (mosquito lagoon).

I am going back and forth on a couple different ways to make the box. But Im pretty settled on the box being half cooler and half dry storage with some rod holders on the side.

Before the box, I need to finalize how Im going to make the Carbon fiber poling platform - its going to be integrated into the hull

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:40 am**

No way a quart could cover all that. At least with me painting it.

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:53 am**

I mixed another 12 oz batch at the end of yesterday to get more coverage on the starboard side. The new S3 Primer covers very well. So it took a little over quart to get enough coverage that the primer is opaque

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:15 am**

Joel,
The built in cooler sounds like a good plan. Are think more in line with a box to drop in a removable cooler, or are you planning to build to one from scratch, foam-lined?

For tiller operation, are going to have a bench seat, or box seat in addition to the box at center?

Gil

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:27 am**

saltponder wrote: Are think more in line with a box to drop in a removable cooler, or are you planning to build to one from scratch, foam-lined?

Will build from plywood and line it with foam for insulation.

saltponder wrote: For tiller operation, are going to have a bench seat, or box seat in addition to the box at center?

On the rear of the set/cooler box, there will be a vertical carbon fiber pipe that will come up to about stomach level - its grab handle/leaning bar. May also run the jack plate switch to it, so you can adjust the trim while standing/running

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:24 pm**

I like your idea of a "reverse" leaning post/grab bar for stand-up tiller control. One fabricated out of anodized aluminum in an "I", "T" or even an inverted "U" shape sitting in a socket for removal when fishing might be appealing--one less item for a fly line to snag.
Gil

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:40 pm**

Joel,

I am missing something...what are you talking about for "the box". Where was this in the thread?

By the way...boat is looking sharp. Very sharp.

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:55 pm**

cape man wrote: I am missing something...what are you talking about for "the box". Where was this in the thread?.

first post

I want a tiller boat, no need for a console and the extra 75 pounds or so that comes with all the controls/rigging of a remote motor. The boat will probably never see the ocean - just the lagoon

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:49 pm**

Sorry. Didn't go all the way back.

Posted: **Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:21 pm**

I check this post 25 times a week for updates.........

Does anyone else feel like a crackhead?

All kidding aside, great lookin boat Shine!

-JimmyB

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:59 am**

Jpatburke wrote:Does anyone else feel like a crackhead?
-JimmyB

Ha! Been thinking that myself for the last few days. I need my fix Joel!!

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:16 am**

Gramps wrote:
Jpatburke wrote:Does anyone else feel like a crackhead?
-JimmyB
Ha! Been thinking that myself for the last few days. I need my fix Joel!!

I was afraid it was just me!!!

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:05 am**

Sorry, but its been slow. Last week we finished the bottom. We experimented with a new bottom coating product that did not turn out so well, so we went back to the graphite/epoxy

I plan to flip the boat today if we have time

We sanded the bottom with 180 before applying the graphite/epoxy. I did not make a water line for the graphite because I want it to be out of the sun. We took it just to the chine and forward to where it will provide some protection when I run into a sandbar

from the transom facing forward

First coat going on. We used 20% to 25% graphite to silvertip epoxy. It took two 12 oz batches (not counting graphite) to give a single coat on the bottom. It only took two coat, but a third would not have hurt.

Hopefully we get her flipped today and back to glassing.

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:26 am**

I am uber jealous! This may just trump the FS18.... Really looking forward to the interior layout and the high HP tiller

Looking great!

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:08 pm**

Joel,

What went wrong with the super duper fighter jet wing edge epoxy??... Say that four times fast..

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:10 pm**

she is flipped

rolled her over in the straps. Hull is probably less then 150 pounds, so if i had more hands we could have lifted it off the molds and walked it to the cradle. with only two of us, i did not want to take any chances so we flipped it with the molds inside (this keeps the hull from flexing too much).
We had to used some line to tie the molds up so the would not fall out. took about 30 minutes total.

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:13 pm**

dborecky wrote:Joel,

What went wrong with the super duper fighter jet wing edge epoxy??... Say that four times fast..

Its covered up with graphite. Its incredible stuff, but it must be sprayed. I tried to roll and tip it, but it made a big mess. We may still sell it, but I need toe experiment with it more.

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:41 pm**

Boat looks awesome Joel! You do make it look way to easy! Can't wait to see how the inside comes together.

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:06 pm**

Great thread. Beside building more boats, I have a new objective - being able to lay fiberglass like that! Gonna have to find a helper, my 8 yr old isnt going to be up to that...takes longer than 5 minutes....

Question Joel - There was another thread where "white graphite" was discussed. Was that the "super duper edge fighter wing epoxy"? Do you guys know anything about this hBN white graphite? I have graphite on 2 boats and black is OK. But it would be nice to have choice

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:57 pm**

Hey Joel, just wondering why you chose strakes only instead of a skeg ? You have me pondering the whole skeg thing again. Will the strakes still alow you to bank in turns? I'm building the ph16. I know that was one of your builds also. I will be fishing the flats and crossing the open bays, what would you suggest?

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:52 am**

Enjoying the build. Wish I could devote that much time to it.

Is this to become a plan option? - or to do it would one just drop all the panel measurements by 4" and be on their own?

Jbo

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:38 pm**

We have not devoted much time to the boat, maybe 6 hours a week.

having the everything line up perfectly (using the CNC kit) the first time saved many, many hours of labor. Also saves money in sandpaper and epoxy by having all fairing surfaces and joints.

Check out how the stringers meet the hull all around, and how uniform the panel joins are. This is definably not a testament to anything we did - its because we had all the parts cut perfectly by the machine (or within a few 1/100" of perfect anyway

)

The notches in the first two layers of transom will be a big help keeping the stringers straight when we glass them in later.

With any luck, we will have some time next week to glass the inside

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:59 pm**

About this becoming a new version: yes, it will be.
I did cut the new sheer in CAD to Joel's requirements.
We looked at different sheer cuts and this one looked as the best compromise.
That means the hull model and all the framing exist. The CNC hull kit for what you see in the pictures exist, you can order today.
Joel wanted to create the decks and gunnels after flipping the hull. This gives him a good feel for the ergonomics.
Once he is decided about the final layout, we will enter them in CAD and cut the parts.
After that, the whole CNC kit will be available but it will take a little more time to produce the 2D plans, web page, BOM etc.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:38 pm**

I like the new sheer, and the self aligning slots for the stringer. Can you tell?

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 627&pos=12

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 244&pos=87

I guess it comes of assembling all those Lunar Modules cut from the back of cereal boxes when I was a bit younger... tab A in slot A.

But now a question... that I suppose is partly answered by the fact that you approved of it on the transom/stringer design. Is there no issue with a hard spot in that slot, or, do you need to float the stringer in putty when bonding it in the slot?

Seems like flaoting it in putty would be a little more involved than just slopping it in there. How much play is between the slot and the stringer?

The slots I used had hardly any play... just enough for about 1/32 to 1/16 room for excess putty... in other words, work the part in and it likely centers itself. But with a stringer to transom, do you need to make sure the stringer centers in any play in that slot?

Great pictures!

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:02 pm**

The hard spot to avoid are the ones created by the framing pushing on the thinner hull panels.
That is not a problem where the stringers and transom meet.

Even for the stringers, we are less concerned about hard spots with a CNC kit because they push evenly all along their length thanks to the precision of the assembly.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:06 pm**

Jacques will all of the kits have the same slot set up in the
transome

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:35 pm**

topwater wrote:Jacques will all of the kits have the same slot set up in the
transome

When it makes sense. It is not always the best solution especially for larger boats.
What do you have in mind? Which boat? And is it something you want?

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:25 pm**

Topwater,

Some thoughts on tab and slot, which I think back up the reason J asked for more specifics. I like the tab and slot concept, but if you look at my two examples a few posts back (by clicking on the links), you'll see that I only did that in a few spots, where it really helped assembly with the putty. But it had a cost in developing the part structure for a situation, and creating the part to match the fit very closely. In some boats, you want to be able to shift things around a little to get things fair with the main panels. Can't happen if there is tab and slot implemented, and parts were not cut a positioned very precisely. When working alone, it was convenient for me to have one end of the skeg taken care of and secure, while I fidgetted with alignment and strap clamping at the transom end. And even those secondary knees I did, primarily were done that way to make the final assembly and alignment very, very easy, in a tight spot otherwise. Important to note though, the hull shape was already built and its shape finalized. When it comes to parts that affect the final shape, before putty is laid in and cured, it may not be the best idea, unless there is either very good accuracy in forming the part to fit, or, (same thing), it is CNC formed.

When I did the seat risers/stringers on the CV16, I divided them into smaller pices for easier handling (back was real bad then), and made them fit very well, so they would not distort the hull bottom by a forced fit and clamp. But I had to modify the cleats and bonding surfaces somewhat so they would have lots of surface to contact for alignment, where as the original lamination schedule had them simply filleted and glassed in, lighter, and easier, IF you had the health to move around that fast while epoxy is setting up. The way I did it, there was no alignment issue at all anymore, and there was virtually no force on the clamps to install them because they were very accurately beveled and fitted. But this is not the usual in many stitch and glue builds. Of course, there is some liberty to implement this wherever you find it will make the build easier. Probably just ask first, depending on how it might effect final hull shape or load bearing. It is very convenient when doable, but takes time and so can actually add a little complication *to make it simpler*.

But I can't tell you enough what a stress relief it was on me, at the time being apprehensive about any sudden moves with my back. The complicated shaping was done outside the boat while standing comfortably, and not twisted in a pretzel.

That forward seat riser squished into perfect position on a nice even bedding of putty. I could slowly turn around, get clamps, and calmly and barely tighten them into perfect position, because of the way the part was made and fitted against cleats. It did not slip or slide out of alignment while my back was turned, or give me high blood pressure. But I am hard pressed to see how this can be done with less rather than more material, and less rather than more weight, and in less rather than more time.

For me, on those knees, on the seat risers, on the skeg front, it was well worth it, easing the stress on me, the builder, while the goop was curing. I also used it on the turtle heads on the transom, again, for me, just to make a final install and alignment of a part in a tight work area, easier, for me.

And if you want to engineer in planned catastrophic break away, don't tab and slot, or use strong fasteners.

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:34 pm**

no particular boat Jacques. I just tought it was a pretty
slick set up. Ks8 thanks for the explanation " i think"

Ks8 dont feel bad about youre build time the boat is
buetiful. I have been building a 14by 28 work shop for
over a year now and it still isnt done

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:28 pm**

A sufficiently large workshop with heat and AC is a beautiful thing. And large double doors. No internal columns. Room for A frame lifts or similar. Oh yeah!

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:04 pm**

Just checking..

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:47 am**

Monday we taped all the inside seams with double layers of 12 oz. Biaxial tape. Working wet on wet, we made coated all the joints with epoxy, made the fillets and laid the tape. From start to finish it took a little over 3 total man hours no counting the 30 minutes I took cutting all the tape in advance. So make it 3.5

If we had time, it would have been nice to do the wide cloth on the same day, but no such luck. Yesterday, we glassed to inside with the wide biaxial cloth. Becasue the tape seams have cured, we must give them a sanding to knock down the edges and bumps so the wide cloth will lay flat. We did this with 40 grit on the DA, its takes very little pressure and time with 40 grit. Before laying the wide cloth down, we mixed up a batch of epoxy and added woodflour to make a thin putty to fill in some of the bigger gaps in the tape joints. We only used maybe 6 oz for this - just on the sports where we knew there would be air underneath the glass if we did not fill.

EXAMPLE: YOU CAN SEE IN THE PICTURE BELOW THE FIBERGLASS SPLICE ON THE BOTTOM PANEL HAS SOME RIDGES AND BUMPS, WE USE THE PUTTY TO FILL IN THOSE SPOTS.

Here are pictures of the sanding of the tape before wide cloth. The idea is to knock off the stitching without sanding the glass very much. We sand the glass a little on the edges so the wide cloth makes a clean transition = no air bubbles

We lay out the wide cloth and make sure the overlaps are sufficient. We used leftover cloth so there are three pieces on the port side

Glassing the inside took about 2.5 hours (5 man hours). Joseph mixed 24 oz batches and we went through them in 5-10 minutes. We used about 2 gallons total of silvertip epoxy (resin and hardener)

Today we will glass the transom. We have to trim the glass from the stringer notches once the epoxy hardens.

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:57 am**

Glassing the inside took about 2.5 hours (5 man hours).

We know your working at super human speeds but no sense rubbing our faces in it

There seems to be a lot of question out there about the uses and limits of the FS17. For the record I think your use of the design will be perfect! The lower sheer will help stability for standing on the edge.

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:41 pm**

Shine,

one question : do you have as much arms as a octopus

Is this a special kind of high-speed boat building?

I'm very impressed !

By the way, nice pictures and interesting describtion of your building.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:47 pm**

are these inside laminations per plans?

2 layers of tape... one layer overall.

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:23 pm**

mecreature wrote:are these inside laminations per plans?

2 layers of tape... one layer overall.

Im not sure, I have not looked at stock FS17 plans. There are a few things that are different in this boat - if you see something different that I do in this build vs. the regular FS17 plans, follow the plans

The idea in working quickly is not to break any records or show off, but rather to show how planning the work, working wet on wet as much as possible, and using the kit you can eliminate a lot of unnecessary work (sanding, fitting, measuring, etc). I am by no means a professional boat builder, i build one or two things a year. Joseph, who is helping me, has only done a little of the finishing work on the Aquasport project - this is his first experience in boat building.

Working by myself this afternoon, it took me at least an hour to wet out two layers of biax on the transom. having an extra set of hands more than doubles the amount of work you can accomplish in a set period of time.

Tomorrow (time allowing) we will tab in the stringers.

Posted: **Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:42 pm**

Your killin me! Nice build for sure!

Posted: **Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:12 pm**

It's the same lamination schedule than the standard FS17.

Posted: **Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:19 pm**

jacquesmm wrote:It's the same lamination schedule than the standard FS17.

It is not the same as the plans that I have. My plans call for one layer of biaxial tape on the chine seams. Two layers on the keel, bow and transom seams. Also, one layer of wide biaxial fabric on the outside of the transom only. Has there been a change in the plans?

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:07 am**

Joel...Your inspiring me! Had a question about the last order I placed. Shot you an email last week, not sure if you got it. Re-sent today. Thanks.

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:06 am**

No change in the plans, just follow the plans please.

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:20 am**

Lower wrote:JHad a question about the last order I placed. Shot you an email last week, not sure if you got it. Re-sent today. Thanks.

I will start a new thread to address your chine question.

here it is, hope that helps...

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?p=150915#150915

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:23 pm**

On friday we tabbed the stringers int the hull.

Started by shaving the end of the stringers down a little with the sander and 40 grit so they would fit easy into the slots in the transom.

We dry fir everything and used the molds again to line things up. The molds are only there to keep the stringers parallel and at 90 degrees. We traced the stringers with a sharpie pen, so we would know exactly where to put down our bead of epoxy glue.

We used some water bottle tops to hold the stringer up while we put down the bead of glue. We used on of these empty caulk tubes to dispense the glue.

pictures of the stringer being held up by caps, note the sharpie trace line so we know where to put the glue....

We had just enough time to fillet and tape the rear of the stringer to the transom - 2 layers

We did not have time to go any further, so we cleansed up excess glue so it would not be in the way when we made fillets later.

Today (Monday) we glassed in the stringers. We started by sanding the area where we would be glassing to knock down anything that might cause trouble in laying down the tape. We used the caulk tubes again to lay down a bead of epoxy/wood flour, then smoothed it over with a mixing stick to make the fillet radius. For reference, one full tube of epoxy glue will make tow lengths of fillet - pretty convenient

cut 8 lengths of biaxial tape ahead of time

stringers are in...

Posted: **Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:29 pm**

I started a separate thread to show the carbon fiber poling platform being built...

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?p=151013#151013

We are cutting out all the frames, sole, and casting deck this afternoon on the CNC machine

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:29 pm**

frames are mostly installed, cleats for sole are glued up. I have not glassed the center the center portions of the frames because i want to have the holes cut for chase tubes first, then I can glass all around them and give the holes a good coating of epoxy.

dry fitting frames. They need to be trimmed to account for all the fiberglass now on the inside of the hull

We traced out where we would trim. Allowing room for the glass/fillets...

Now they fit better (I took too much off on a couple, which only means we have to use more fillet putty than I want)

Again, we used calk tubes to apply a nice even bead of epoxy/wood flour glue under the gaps of the frames. We cleaned this up so there was no excess. Let it cure overnight.

you can see the glue under the frame

Marked out 3" on either side of the frames and sanded in preparation for the fillet/glass tape.

Cut up the tape for outside portions of the frames.

made fillets all around

This is what the fillet putty looks like before we go over it with the fillet tools to make it smooth. We used the caulk tube to dispense the bead of fillet putty. Ech tube holds 10 oz of putty. They are a HUGE time saver. I think we did all the fillets in 20 minutes or so.

We let the fillets set up for about 30 minutes, then came back and wet out the tape. We will do the center spans after I run chase tubes

today I glued up the cleats. The cleats are little pieces of wood which are epoxy glued to the sides of the frames and stringers. These give more glue/bonding area when we epoxy down the sole and casting decks. I just used scrap 3/8" okoume for the cleats, doubled up. Normally they do not have to be as tall as when you see here, 3/4" is fine - but these scraps were already cut, so i used them

Also, i started the insulated box that will be in the center of the sole. I had to figure out the size and placement of this right now because i am going to run a chase to tube to it from under the sole. the box will served double duty as either a cooler or baitwell - drain out the side. The first 6 inches will be a compartment for an electrical box. Dimensions are big enough to hold a upper limit snook (length wise)

Which is about the biggest fish i would take home. I will start another thread to show how Im building it

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:30 pm**

Shine, do you clean and reuse caulk tubes?

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:57 am**

Yes, those tubes look like a real time saver. I never really liked the plastic bag approach. This looks alot easier to make it clean.

- where can you get those tubes? Seems they would be hard to reuse...
- do they work with a regular caulk gun?
- how much epoxy do they hold and how much time do you have to work? I would think you have to be pretty well prepared

Also, one last question: when you taped the rear of the stringer to the transom, you left the glass proud of the stringer. Did you clean that up before it set or after? If after, how did you do it? Thanks

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:51 pm**

The tubes can be re-used. After the epoxy inside cures, you can pop out the cap.

When we mix the epoxy glue to fill the tube, we use a 9 oz batch of epoxy and add filler until we get to peanut butter consistency - then fill it. That seams to fill the tube all the way up with a littel putty left over.

Its actually quite easy to get it all out before you have any issues with the epoxy kicking or exotherm. From the time you finish mixing to the time your finished dispensing is less than 5 minutes.

We stock the tubes..

http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=7

The glass over the stringer was trimmed when the epoxy was green, we will clean it up more with the grinders before we glue the rear casting deck down. The rear casting deck is at the level of the top of those stringers.

Joel

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:37 am**

Those cartridges are a great idea! Nothing worse than having a ziplock bag pop open while squeezing. The worse is when your finger goes through the side and it starts to squirt out the new hole more freely than the "precision" cut tip.

I remember my first "run in" with the ziplock method. I had mixed a rather large batch assuming that I would be quick filleting for the first time. Because I was going to be so good at this I used fast hardner. After about 30 seconds of squeezing till my face turned blue the two pounds of mix began to kick and get hot. Conveniently, to free the hot goo my finger had slipped through the side of the baggie. Since it was really hot (smoking) I decided I should work faster. I wasn't about to waste this much epoxy my first try. So I coverd the hole with the same finger that created it and continued to squeeze for all I had. About ten seconds later the smoking goo had squirted out the hole half hard already. Conveniently saving my garage floor it landed on my forearm. Since it was really hot and still smoking my plans of the perfect fillet were shot. My new goal was get this pile of westsystem excrement off my arm. I ran out the garage past my wife, new baby, and what seemed like the entire neighborhood screaming and yelling all the while beating at this pile of smoking goo. Luckily the grass made a great goo remover. It was even a little damp which was a nice touch.

I had some explaining to do, some touch up work ahead of me, and a little experience under my belt

Yeah cartridges would be nice.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:45 pm**

Joel,
After applying the "glue", did you use any permanent spacers after you removed the bottle caps to guard against "hard spots" when you laid out frames, stringers, etc.?
Tnx. Gil

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:25 pm**

saltponder wrote:Joel,
After applying the "glue", did you use any permanent spacers after you removed the bottle caps to guard against "hard spots" when you laid out frames, stringers, etc.?
Tnx. Gil

No hard spots with the glue bead - the forces are uniform for the length of the stringer

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:39 pm**

Jeremy, you got any video of that story, you'd win $$$ on Americas Funniest Home Videos if ya do. That's a great story

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:03 pm**

sounds like my first experience with a ziplock too jgroves...... LMAO reading that... might give the tubes a try next time..

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:06 pm**

I favor the heavy duty plastic pastry bags. They dont break or puncture, are cheap and then you throw them away and use another one. Any kitchen store sells them.
Daddy

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:16 pm**

I had the same Zip-Loc experience and was going to go with a real pastry bag too. I may have to try a caulk tube. I was a little worried about it cooking off in the tube.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:53 pm**

Joel, what/how many floor frames are you using? I am only counting four, or is that B, and A is hiding in front of that? Will your front deck extend to B or just A? Also what are the notches in the top of the floor frames for(B or C and C or D)? One more question, did you raise the stringers with the bottle caps for the glue bead along their entire length or just in back, logic tells me the entire length but I can't tell from the pics? One more (off topic) Surfed lately? That's it I swear?

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:08 pm**

what/how many floor frames are you using?

There are 4 frames. A is the height of the casting deck. The sole extends over B and there is a second part of B that is the height of the casting deck also. That where you step up. Between B and D there is a 6' long sole, then the rear casting deck

Also what are the notches in the top of the floor frames for(B or C and C or D)?

Thats where the but block rests

Jacques put the notches in to the cut file. the sole is cut in half length wise.

One more question, did you raise the stringers with the bottle caps for the glue bead along their entire length

I had a bottle cap at the rear and front of the stringer while we put down the bead of glue, then we just pulled the caps out and shoved the stringer back into the pre-cut slot in the transom (which was full of putty also)

Surfed lately?

Yes

Ive been going about once a week, and Im getting better (relative statement). I desperately need a shorter board though. This past Saturday dropping in on some overhead steep ones with my 10' board was scary. I want something about 8' with a lot of volume but still hard rails - maybe a big fish

So whats the status of your boat?

[/quote]

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:22 pm**

Still in a holding pattern until the little man sleeps through the night since Colleen can't get much sleep. I watch him in the mornings and evenings so she can get some Z's. Weekends have been hectic lately as well, with some unfinished projects that need to be completed before I get the thumbs up. Chomping at the bit though, ready to head to the big box and get some melamine to at least get the molds cut and build a strongback. Got good news from my accountant about my taxes so I have a few extra bucks. Hopefully cooler weather =boat building weather. I'm having to live vicariously through all my friends for this past swell since Liam was sick I had no chance to hit it. I need to talk to Mickey about getting that 8 footer for ya!

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:33 am**

decided on locations for chase tubes. I wanted to cut these hole before glassing the center portions of the frames, that way I could gives the holes a good coating of epoxy as I wet out the tape.

There is one tube for draining the front compartments (runs down the keel), there is another for fuel line (ends between frames A and B with 90 degree elbow), a third goes all the way through frame A - this one will be for running lights or anything else I might need.

There is also a short chase running towards the middle of the sole with a 90 degree elbow. This one will come up just inside the center box. The center box will have a compartment towards the rear. Compartment will be mainly so i can run a switch for the jackplate.

Holes cut, tape pre-cut and ready.

fillets made, holes coated with epoxy

Tape wet out over the still tacky fillet - this is working "wet on wet"

________________________

Found a fuel tank

The boat is getting to the point where we need to figure out how to fit a tank. I gave thought to having a portable tank located under the front casting deck, but I want to use smaller pre-made hatches, so I would not be able to remove the tank anyway. Found this 17 gallon tank from the local marine surplus. The shape is not perfect and it more capacity than I need, but it fits better than anything else I could find and the price was very good.

the sole will extend under the front casting deck on either side of the stringers. mounting the tank the way you see in the picture is the only way to allow for room for the chase tubes to not interfere with the tank. The front anchor compartments will drain to this compartment, which runs back to the bilge.

Fuel tanks should not sit directly on the hull bottom. the tank should be suspended by brackets or resting on a neoprene strip. When the boat slams you do not want point loads from all the fuel weight directly on one spot of the hull (similar to hard spots on stringers). This tank is a funny shape, so i made a couple brackets to evenly support it.

The brackets are just some scrap honey comb panel we have, I could just as easily used some scrap plywood. I traced the outline of the tank and cut them out. then they tabbed to the hull with epoxy putty. Later they will get a couple pieces of biax tape to hold them down.

Today, we will glue on the last couple cleats for the sole, the give the compartments one last coating of epoxy (where needed) and start fitting the sole.

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:09 am**

Here is a separate thread for documenting the building of the center box...

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?p=151639#151639

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:22 am**

Joel, what is the spacing between D and the transom is it the full 54" (along the bottom) as in the plans or did you adjust the spacing since there is no E? Just wondering how many transverse members are needed and the spacing since my plans are nearly the same as yours.

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:41 pm**

the frames are spaced at 36". From the transom to the nearest frame is 36"

Posted: **Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:59 am**

Yesterday I dry fit the sole. Had to trim some places for good fit. Originally I had planned to have the sole go all the way to the front frame, but because my fuel tank rests below the sole in between the stringers, i had to notch the sole so it fit around that compartment.

This shows the the forward pieces of the sole and the butt block that will be glued underneath. I line it up on the top and make some marks so I know where to line it up when we glue it underneath

Take one side out of the boat and screw the butt block underneath using those marks to line it up where I want

Screw it to the other side, again aligning with my marks, making sure I have a good flush fit all around on the stringers and frames.

Now I do the same thing for the butt blocks that combine the front sole with the rear sole. You can see the marks for where we have to cut out space for the stringers and the butt block thats already on the two front sole pieces. (you can see I made a cutting mistake here. I should have left the butt block from the two front pieces extend 4" out the rear, that way the rear sole pieces would be glued to it. The way I have it now i will have to have another but block under those pieces - no big deal)

Here they are cut out and marked

This is the rear portion of the sole. The sole extends under the rear casting deck on either side of the stringers. Between the stringers is left open for a bilge/sump.

So the sole is dry fit. Later in the day, I epoxy glued the butt blocks in place. Today we will install the chase tubes and begin foaming in the compartments. Also we will be coating the under side of the sole pieces and filling in all those dry wall screw holes with epoxy.

Its a good idea to do all of this fitting/gluing/sealing before you start with the foam - other wise it will be more diffucult.

Joel

Posted: **Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:31 pm**

Joel, will you gas tank be exposed??
Looking awesome by the way!!

Marty

Posted: **Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:35 pm**

flatpicker wrote:Joel, will you gas tank be exposed??
Looking awesome by the way!!

Marty

there will be a hatch on either side, but yes you will able to see it from the sides - which is how I will know how much fuel I have

No need for gauge. Its 17 gallons, which is probably 10 more than I will ever burn in one day. but it cant hurt to have the capacity in case on day I take the boat to the everglades or run it up and down the beach in the summer

Posted: **Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:23 pm**

filled under the sole with foam. Used 2 2 gallon kits. Trim the tops off the first couple compartments, then toss the left over into the next one - this saves a lot of waste.

Coating the under side of the sole pieces. Rolled on two heavy coats of epoxy. the last coat was pigmented (brown) so I could see I was getting even coverage/encapsulation.

Gluing the two sole pieces together:

Roughed up the underside of the rear sole piece, then applied epoxy glue to the butt blocks which are already glued up to the forward sole piece.
Used screws to pull the two together until the pieces were flush. Its good to do this sort of thing in the boat so that everything is lined up. After this cures, we will take the sole out and drill/fill where the screw are now.

Tomorrow we will probably glass the sole down and also the tops of the frames that support the casting decks (they are already cut out and trimmed to fit)

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:12 am**

Thanks for all details Joel.

Did you epoxy glue the sole to the tops of the stringers as well,
or will the glass be enough. I feel like I know the answer to this question
but since I didn't see any glue on the stringers I wanted to make sure that
I'm understanding as many building processes as I can.

Thanks,
Daniel

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:56 am**

Murry wrote: Did you epoxy glue the sole to the tops of the stringers as well,
or will the glass be enough. l

Not yet, Im waiting for the glue to cure on the butt blocks that attach the two parts of the sole. Then I remove the sole, drill out the holes where the screws are, then re-fill with epoxy. Then, I will glue the sole down to the stringers/frames.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:25 am**

Thanks Joel,

I must of had a slight case of "impatient reader syndrome".

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:28 am**

interesting how it lines up so well... weird... takes close enough out of it.. how fun could that be.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:17 pm**

glued down the sole today. Also pieced together the forward casting deck.

Started by removing the sole from the boat. Yesterday we glued the forward and rear section together while its was in the boat - this insures it will fit correctly later.

pulled out of boat and resting on saw horses

With 1/4" bit I drilled out the screw holes left from gluing the two pieces together. We then roughed up the underside of the sole with some 80 grit paper in the palaces where it will rest on the stringers and frames. Mixed up some epoxy and painted the tops of the frames/stringers and the underside of the sole (also filled those holes with epoxy). Let this set up for several hours before gluing down the sole.

For gluing down the sole, I had help mixing glue and filling caulking tubes with the epoxy glue. We used 3 tubes total, and there was not any waste to speak of. Each tube will hold about 12 oz of glue. We start with 9 oz of epoxy and add wood flour/silica until we get to a very thick consistency (we can go really thick because we first painted the surfaces with regular unthickend epoxy)

you can see what size bead glue we laid down

here it is before adding weight

here it is after weight

We could see excess squeezing out all around, so we know the contact and bond is good

With a little time left I put together the forward casting deck. Forward casting deck is in two pieces held together with abut block. The two frames the deck sits on are already notched for the but block.

coated the pieces first with epoxy (a little brown pigment mixed in to help discern even coverage). Then mix up some glue and dry wall screwed the parts together. The screws are removed a day later, then the holes are drilled out over sized and filled with epoxy. ZERO screws stay in the boat

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:04 pm**

Joel,

I read earlier that you plan drill out the screws and then fill the holes.
Do you simply drill off the heads or do try and get all the metal out
and if option one are you concerned about rust. Probably not since they will never see moisture. How do you avoid squeezing out to much glue when using screws? I'm concerned about using screws when I evertually start to glue, because of creating hard spots and squeezing out two much glue. I know your experience can shed some light on my questions
and thank you for the response earlier.

I'll be honest I've read so much about hard spots that I'm trying to completely avoid wood contact where I can when I build my gf16. I'm planning to dry fit all transoms and frames to the sides using screws with two spacers on either side of the of the screws to avoid low spots and contact and then tack weld in between them. After everything dries I will remove the screws and then fill the gaps when I fillet and tape. Does this method seem like it would work? I thought this would also keep me from squeezing the glue out of each of the joints. (I understand that to be a no no.)

I'm certaintly not trying to draw attention away from your very nice build
,but I thought it would be a good opportunity to get this quick question answered concerning the use of screws.

Thank You Joel.
Daniel

If this question is out of place here please let me know.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:25 pm**

Daniel, you misunderstand.

First you remove the screws with a screwdriver, then you drill out the screw holes, so that you can fill them completely with epoxy. Unscrew the screws as soon as the glue sets so they don't get too stuck. If they get too stuck you can heat them to unscrew. I usually use coated deck screws, the coating keeps the glue from sticking to the screws.

How do you avoid squeezing out to much glue when using screws?

By not screwing the screws in too tight

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:29 pm**

If you are worried about screws, just use weights to glue parts together.
But if you use screws, don't over analyze the process: you screw the parts, you remove the screws and fill the holes with epoxy and that's it. Don't worry about hard spots there.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:46 pm**

I updated the post to be more clear....

The screws are removed a day later, then the holes are drilled out over sized and filled with epoxy. ZERO screws stay in the boat

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:15 pm**

Daniel you also don't really need to worry about hard spots except on the hull bottom, the stringers and the bulkheads, frames, etc. This is where the flexing of the hull can cause problems. In other places as long as you have glue between the wood no problem with hard spots. Remember gaps are good. Of course in the case of gluing the sole there will only be glue between the peices and this is fine.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:05 pm**

Thank You everyone, each one of your replies helped me to understand.

I know it will all come together when I start building.

Thanks again,
Daniel

Posted: **Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:07 am**

Friday I was able to get the sole glassed down and also the top portion of the last frames. All done wet one wet. I only have one picture. The gaps were not too big so I only used maybe a quart of putty all around to fill the gaps and make the fillet. Used one layer of 12 oz biax tape here, except for the cockpit area (6 feet) I doubled up and used two layers.

The sole tape joints were tack free after a few hours, so i went ahead and put in the frames.

This is the rear face of the front casting deck....

and here is the rear casting deck forward frame...

Wet on wet: precut tape, make fillet, wet out glass

Also glued up brackets for the lateral support of the fuel tank. The hardener bottles are just holding them in place while the epoxy cures

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:46 am**

Parenthesis:
I another thread, we were discussing the ideal outboard for this boat and I posted some figures. Here is a copy of that post:
----------------
Here are some figures that I ran for Joel's FS17_custom_low_sheer.
The first one is hydrostatics values.
Those are very conservative, big safety margins. I estimated a displacement of 1,050 lbs with a 25 HP 2 stroke, 2 persons (400 lbs), gas, battery, baitwell filled, lots of gear. Somebody who watch the weight can go much lower, like 850 lbs with 2 persons.
At 1,050 lbs, the hull draft is 5.5". Download or view the PDF below:
http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/FS17_H ... Report.pdf

Based on that weight, I ran a planing analysis and estimated that this was a well tuned but used engine with 70% shaft output and a little bit of drag from dirt.
This gave us a top speed of 29 mph, easy cruise at 26 mph with a trim of less than 2 degrees.
View or download the file here:
http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/FS17_P ... Report.pdf

If you look at the speed/power rows, you'll see that the boat planes with around 15 HP at the shaft, that means a 20 HP nominal.
A 25 HP well tuned with the right prop is ideal for that boat.

The balance is critical: those values were calculated for 2 men standing close to the middle of the boat, just behind Joel's box or behind the console if any.

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:33 pm**

We have glued up cleats and installed the framing to support the casting decks. Also glassed the sole with 6 oz cloth for abrasion resistance. Finished the fisrt of the two poling platform supports. More work on the cooler box.

glassing the sole with 6 oz cloth

cleats glued to transom and deck frame:

more cleats

Supports for rear deck, these are notched into the frame and glassed to the top of the stringer

These are the two supports for the forward deck. these supports are two layers of 9mm glued together (2.25" tall"). these are all made from left over Okoume from the kit

Here is the CF poling platform support, post curing in the sun. It weights less than 3.5 lbs. I post more on building the CF parts in the other thread in this section

Also making the cooler box

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:57 pm**

Making a few small extra parts:

Small pieces of 9mm for where we will drill cockpit drains. This is how i have drained my last few boats and I prefer it to drains out the transom, even through the later looks better (as we did the Aquasport recess drains to scuppers though the transom)

The sides needed some extra stiffness after all, so a small frame goes in

frame gets glassed in with biaxial tape, as does the drain piece

more progress also on the box and the poling platform

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:59 pm**

Joel, couldn't you have gotten away with either side decks or a slotted gunnel for side strength? Or possibly even a chair rail?

E

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:27 pm**

Spokaloo wrote:Joel, couldn't you have gotten away with either side decks or a slotted gunnel for side strength? Or possibly even a chair rail?

E

yes, there were lots of options.

I considered a gunnel: more weight than needed, takes up space. If I had to do it over, I would cut them on the cnc to be one piece with the front/rear casting deck and nice radius corners

I considered inwhale: not enough room above rear casting deck (its almost at the sheer level already)

I considered a half a 2" PVC pipe with glass over it: too much weight

I went with the frame because it was the most efficient way of getting the stiffness, and I may notch it for use as a rod/pole holder

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:39 pm**

This is how i have drained my last few boats and I prefer it to drains out the transom

I'm glad to see someone besides me draining the cockpit like that

I prefer it that way too.

Looking good Joel. That's going to be a nice boat

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:17 pm**

Joel, I see you went with a sole all the from the transom to A, is it all 9mm ply? Is it possible to just have the floor frame at A and then use 2x2 up the gunnell? I didn't want a full bulkhead dividing up my under deck storage. What would your recommendation be for the sole? I am getting started albeit completely backward..... starting with my hatch lids

Sending you a PM

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:18 pm**

Nice Joel, she is rapidly becoming a true lady. I still prefer the scuppers out the transom, but not the little things they normally sell. Everyone to there own. May make my own. Good idea on the small frames. Definately less weight than other options.

For some reason I think you have been doing this a while.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:48 pm**

TomW wrote:NI still prefer the scuppers out the transom, but not the little things they normally sell.

i agree, large oval type scuppers out the transom are very different than the little tubes with flappers.

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:02 am**

How close is the BOM for the standard FS17 to your lowered sheer version?

I keep wavering on what I want but keep coming back to your boat Joel. Just can't wait to see it complete!

-Scott

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:25 am**

Its close to the base BOM, sides are lower, but I used a bit more ply for the casting decks.

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:48 pm**

Coating the insides with pigmented epoxy. This took about 1 quart of epoxy and 4 oz of pigment for 2 coats. Also coated the underside of the rear casting deck

Epoxy is more resistant to fuel and chemicals than paints, so this is a very good alternative to painting. But only for area out of the sun, pigments are not enough barrier to protect the epoxy from UV long term.

Under forward casting deck...

under rear casting deck

this is the underside of the rear casting deck...

Also made a little progress on the box and the second poling platform support. Ordered hatches today, so next week we glue down cating decks and install hatches.

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