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WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:03 pm
by WouldWork
Greetings friends,

The plans for my V12 turned up today, I'm excited!

I'll spend the rest of this week and maybe next getting everything together and get started as soon as possible.

This is my second boat and I'm hoping to get it together in reasonable time.

I look forward to sharing many pics and anecdotes with you guys and I'm sure I'll be bothering you all for lots of tips and tricks.

Cheers guys.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:53 pm
by WouldWork
Hi all,

I am still waiting for ply and resin, but I got very impatient and started on some other bits so I could say I've started!

These aren't yet particularly interesting pics, but they are a start.

Daggerboard sides and spacers

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I also started fabrication of the tiller. It's a piece of 6mm ply sandwiched between 19mm hardwood. The hard wood has a lovely grain, should look really nice when bright. ]

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Also, if anyone knows, I can't seem to find the dimensions for the tiller slot on the plans. The building notes say that its dimensions are critical, if you want the tiller slot to rest against the rudder, but I don't see any such dimensions. Is this simply something that may well be critical, but is also determined by others aspects of the rudder/tiller build that require ones own calculations once they can be 'put together' so to speak?

Cheers guys, I promise to have better pics on the next update, maybe even something that looks like a boat.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:46 pm
by ks8
Welcome to the group! :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:29 am
by WouldWork
Thanks Ks8. Here's what I've come up with so far.

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and with the slot cut out

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Now that leaves the tiller with about 12mm of meat where the slot has been removed, it is a hardwood but I'm thinking it will need some reinforcing perhaps. Maybe something similar to your tiller (ks8), or even a couple of stainless steel plates on each side. I thought of fibreglassing it, but I don't think that will look as nice.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:08 am
by Justin Pipkorn
I don't think you will have to worry about reinforcing the tiller on your boat. I don't think you will have to fiberglass the tiller, just vanish is fine. I would epoxy coat the tiller before varnishing. Besure to let the epoxy cure for several weeks before varnishing.

Here's a picture of a very lightweight tiller I made for my OT16. Rudders on boats this small don't exert much force like a larger boat. My tiller just locks on the rudderhead without a bolt. The tiller has a small HDPE roller in the back which fits in a slot on the back of the rudderhead. The radius on the front of the rudderhead holds the tiller in place. I like to be able to easily lift off the tiller when I remove the rudder. In order to keep weight forward when sailing, the tiller is very long.

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The rudder also shown in the picture is also worth looking at. The shock cord holds the rudder down but if the rudder grounds out, the rudder blade lifts up and stays up. The trick is to get the rudder pivot and shock cord location to work out. It works. This way, if I sail into shallow water, I can focus on lifting the daggerboard and let the rudder take care of itself.

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The rudder blade and daggerboard are coated with graphite filled epoxy. The bottom is now also graphite/epoxy coated.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:10 am
by Justin Pipkorn
I don't think you will have to worry about reinforcing the tiller on your boat. I don't think you will have to fiberglass the tiller, just vanish is fine. I would epoxy coat the tiller before varnishing. Besure to let the epoxy cure for several weeks before varnishing.

Here's a picture of a very lightweight tiller I made for my OT16. Rudders on boats this small don't exert much force like a larger boat. My tiller just locks on the rudderhead without a bolt. The tiller has a small HDPE roller in the back which fits in a slot on the back of the rudderhead. The radius on the front of the rudderhead holds the tiller in place. I like to be able to easily lift off the tiller when I remove the rudder. In order to keep weight forward when sailing, the tiller is very long.

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The rudder also shown in the picture is also worth looking at. The shock cord holds the rudder down but if the rudder grounds out, the rudder blade lifts up and stays up. The trick is to get the rudder pivot and shock cord location to work out. It works. This way, if I sail into shallow water, I can focus on lifting the daggerboard and let the rudder take care of itself.

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The rudder blade and daggerboard are coated with graphite filled epoxy. The bottom is now also graphite/epoxy coated.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:54 am
by ks8
That's what I mean Cameron, when I say there are some liberties with the tiller and rudderhead, once you understand the function and have an idea of what is strong enough, and what conveniences you would like to incorporate. Justin is one of the builders who enjoys exploring what others have done, and comes up with a mousetrap more suited to his preferences. :)

I like his idea of quickly removing rudder and tiller. I may swap out my pivot bolt and replace it with the spring loaded coupler pin on trailer hitches, so I don't have to unscrew the retaining nut.

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Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:48 am
by WouldWork
Hi guys, I'm back on track. Had a couple of set-backs in the form of 'losing my job', took a short while to find another.

Anyway, I bumped into an old friend who's a cabinet maker, who supplied me with full 8 x 4 marine ply at a similar price to the usual (Australian std size) 1200x2400mm exterior ply I've used previously. Long story short, the ply turned up on Friday and it's full steam ahead.

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My cabinet maker friend also gave me a long thin piece of aluminium that is brilliant for scribing the curves in the panels. I simply put a little brad nail either side of the mark along the panel and slide the aluminium in between for a perfect curve.

A few hours measuring and cutting and here's where I am now.

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Now although the plans supply all the measurements for the bottom panels the recommendation is to assemble what I have and scribe the bottom panels from the semi-assembled hull. I'm guessing that inaccuracies in measuring and cutting as well as ply stiffness can make a significant difference in the exact measurements required to have the bottom panels line up adequately?

Tomorrow I'll glue on the butt blocks and when set, assemble the transom, frames and sides.

Hopefully more pics in the coming days.

Cheers

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:40 pm
by WouldWork
Just been informed that my ply is 'finishing ply', indoor only, they gave me ply from the wrong corner of the wharehouse. Since I've started cutting however I'm not eligible for a refund. I didn't budget for this obviously so the build is off. I can no longer justify the cost of this boat. Sorry for taking up space on the board.

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:06 pm
by ks8
Sorry to hear that. :(

Hopefully one day soon, things will turn around. No apologies needed at all, except perhaps from the guy that pulled your plywood. :doh:

If the day comes soon when you are back at, come on back and give us some pictures. Maybe you could use your current parts as templates when proper wood is obtained? :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:41 pm
by wegcagle
Sorry to hear about that. It just sucks that someone else screwed up and you're left holding the bill. Maybe it is a blessing in disguise. On my boat the cost of plywood was nothing compared to fiberglass and parts. Hopefully things will turn around and you can jump back in with both feet.

Will

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:29 pm
by WouldWork
Thank you gents, I appreciate your encouragement. I can use the frames and transom as templates as they're very accurate and just straight lines. I won't do the same with the side panels as slight inaccuracies with scribing the curve and then moreso with cutting I think I'd be more comfortable re-measuring those.

Speaking to the cabinet maker's supplier today to try get a few free sheets and perhaps by this coming weekend I can be back at it. We'll see. It would be a shame to ditch the project, just didn't want to stretch the budget too far.

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:15 am
by WouldWork
Gentlemen your 'well-wishes' have proven fruitful. My supplier has given me 6 new pieces of marine ply at no charge. Build is back on!!

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:44 pm
by ks8
Yes! :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's as it should be 8)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:09 pm
by wegcagle
Awesome news :!:

Will

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:00 pm
by Biker B.O.B.
Glad to hear that the supplier came through for you.

The V12 was my first build and my favorite of the small boats. It will be nice to watch another V12 come to life.

Thinking about your comment on bottom panels and I don't remember anything about putting the sides and frames together then measuring for the bottom panels. I measured and cut all the hull panels before stitching. And if I may make a recommendation, get that bow pulled tight on the bottom panels before stitching the bottom panels to the side panels in the forward section. There is a mean twist in those bottom panels at the bow; and I think that stitching the bottom panels to the side panels up toward the bow before bringing those bottom panels together made it more difficult. Of course,it was my first build and I may have simply done something else wrong.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:34 am
by WouldWork
Thanks for the tip. I will do exactly as you advised. I would have done it the other way, but your recommendation makes perfect sense. I'll let you know how it goes.

I'm 'caught up' to where I was 2 weeks ago. The new ply turned up and I've finally had a chance to get measuring. This set back has turned out to be a blessing as I've measured and cut much better this time. I know some gaps are our friend, but with the troubles I've read about getting the bow lined up and stitched nicely I think it's a good idea to have the panels pretty accurate.

The build is also being slowed by my 35 weeks pregnant wife! Very exciting times for me!! I'd like to have the boat mostly assembled before the birth, but with kids, wife and work it may drag out a while.

Anyway, I'll post some pics of the new frames and panels coming together soon.

Cheers

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:23 am
by WouldWork
Good afternoon gentlemen,

My V12 is starting to look like a boat.

Shaun, I used your advice, at least partially. I used extra long cable ties and left a few inches slack in each. It allowed me to get it all in place and as I worked forward from the transom I could really see which areas needed tightening first and what would pull what where. I did need to stitch the chine near the bow in a couple of places before I could get the bottom panels to come in. It really wasn't that hard, just time consuming. I think patients was the key, and I had an offsider to help.


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As you can see, I still have some gaps and will tease the bottom panels in a tiny little bit further before applying the seams. I'm thinking my gaps aren't too bad? Seams will seal them up?

Anyway, having the rest of the day off, Glass work should start tomorrow night.

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:10 am
by Cracker Larry
The stitching looks great. No problem with those gaps.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:14 pm
by ks8
nice :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:44 pm
by Biker B.O.B.
It looks real good. Glad I could be of some help. Can't wait to see your V12 sailing.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:17 pm
by WouldWork
Hi Gents,

Things are progressing slowly! I've done the inner seams, cleaned up the outer hull, removed all the cable ties and smoothed and shaped the panels, almost ready for glass. At this stage I'm only going to glass the seams, not the whole bottom. I've just got to add a little putty between the glued bits where the cable ties were.

My (very) pregnant wife is due any day now, so progress will diminish in the coming weeks. Not to worry though, As long as I have the boat done before the kids are old enough to go sailing. Lol Progress will continue, just steady steady.

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Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:12 pm
by ks8
Its a boat! :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:08 am
by WouldWork
It's a boy!! Little over 7pounds. Both baby and mum are healthy, happy and sleeping!!

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:16 am
by Walkers Run
Congrats !!!!

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:42 pm
by Biker B.O.B.
Congratulations!

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:36 am
by JCordray
Congrats on the baby! My wife and I are expecting number four in a few weeks (or any day now as it might turn out). You can let me know how you get any work done with a little one! Maybe I can put ours in a baby sling and epoxy away!

j/k

:lol:

-Josh

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:46 am
by wegcagle
congrats!!!
Maybe I can put ours in a baby sling and epoxy away!
I put mine in a bouncy seat and went to town. Just can't do it while your sanding :help:

Will

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:38 pm
by WouldWork
Thanks Gents, for the congratulations.

All the best to you JCordray! All my mates are envious of my children, none of their Dad's built boats for them. Lol.

The secret to boat building with a new born is to invite as many friends and family around to visit as you can, then you simply slip away and do all your noisy jobs while the kids are awake and distracted. Then once kids are asleep you can do the quiet jobs through the night.

Fortunately for me, it's summer here, and the temperature rarely gets below 35C (95F) during the day, and rarely gets below 30C (86F) at night. Even in winter it's very unusual to get below 15C (59F) day or night so I can continue uninterrupted all year round. Although sanding for hours in 45C+ heat with 96%+ tropical humidity can get a little disheartening, I'm sure many of you know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, at work right now, so I'd better go and sell some stuff, hopefully I have an almost full weekend to play with the boat ahead of me.

Take care all.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:54 pm
by WouldWork
Quick update, things are slow as far as the boat is concerned. Newborn babies are hard to work with, they pay no attention to schedules! Loving every minute though of coarse.

Must keep moving though, where I can. I have an FL26 planned next and it's driving me to keep at least a steady pace on this one.

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I'll start working on the skeg, seats and dagger board trunk next.

Cheers

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:58 pm
by Biker B.O.B.
WouldWork wrote: Must keep moving though, where I can.
Looking good. Keep it up.

One interesting thing I noted during my builds, I seemed to get more work done over a month when I concentrated on one hour a day rather than finding time in the schedule for four or more hours of boat building. Plus it helped keep me motivated. When you do nothing on the boat for a week or two it is easy to let it drag out to a month or two with no work being completed. That's when the build stalls. Oh, and an hour of sanding is much easier than four hours of sanding. :wink:

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:44 pm
by ks8
The intellect runs out of foundations on which to build, and passion with which to build -- apart from the imagination. Keep the imagination welcome, joyfully active in its work, even when other duties fill the calendar for the moment. Of course, there's vain imagination... And there's true imagination. You get the idea... :lol:

Nothing like newborns and little ones to breathe new life into the imagination. True Imagination won't distract needful industry... But will feed and inspire it. :D

There's my shot in the arm for the month. :)

Got a name yet for the V12?

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:09 pm
by WouldWork
Thanks for the tip Shaun, I think your approach has real merrit. I have a week off work over Christmas, and have big plans for the boat!

As for a name Ks8, I haven't thought of anything as yet, suggestions are welcome? However after that beautiful philosophical 'shot in the arm' as you called it, I think the name will have to be one inspired by intellect, imagination and passion! Way to put the pressure on! :lol:

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:25 am
by ks8
:lol: 8)

But now, to clarify ... :wink: ... The imagination 'sees' what intellect alone would not... The imagination is inspired...Then the intellect is called to task to try and hammer out details and language with the hope to communicate to others what the imagination 'sees', since so many things truly 'seen' by the imagination would whither in that imagination, if not shared and enjoyed with others. And there is passion in it all, properly bounded passion, of course ... :wink: Intellect is there to serve what 'true' imagination sees and hopes to share in communication... It doesn't work right the other way around, IMHO... :lol:

So... What stirred your imagination to build the V12? Let your intellect circle that camp awhile, and perhaps the boat name will come into language that will fit on a transom. :)

Or, a boat name can be a memorial that honors something or someone that is a continual inspiration to your imagination. But that's enough from me for now, before I invite a label on myself that I may soon regret... :lol: 8O :lol:

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:57 am
by WouldWork
So... What stirred your imagination to build the V12?
It was actually an emotionless & mechanical decision....

Option to sail
V-Hull
Room for 2
Car top-able
Cheap build
Looks great

It all pointed to the V12. I think the imagination has come in to play during the build rather than prior. These aren't 'just' boats are they? They are a part of us. They represent our emotions, imaginations and intellect, each one subtly or vastly different from the next, although starting from identical plans. That's one of the differences I think between a profession, a hobby and a passion.

Having said that, I am still wondering about a name that will suit the V12 as well as myself. For me, and I guess many others, building a boat is like flying to the moon: I wouldn't believe I was capable of it until I tried. I won't however try flying to the moon as failure may disappoint. :lol:

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:31 am
by WouldWork
"August Dawn", on the transom, in a slightly cursive font.

Anyone already have that name? :doh:

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:57 pm
by ks8
sounds good 8) on the transom or stern quarter ... depending on how large you want the font, and the available room... :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:57 am
by WouldWork
I think it will be better on the stern quarter. With either a rudder or electric outboard hanging off the transom, it might detract from the name a little if it's on the transom.

I'll print some letters out when the boat is finished and try a few locations/fonts/sizes etc, see what looks best. Now that it has a name, and the name has historical and personal significance to me, I think it deserves a little thought.

Have a good Christmas.

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:37 pm
by ks8
8) Same plan... same reason... letters cut already. Did a virtual install three or four times already. I think I'll peel of the backing next time and actually do it.. :lol:

Merry Christmas! :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:31 am
by WouldWork
So what's the name ks8? Or is it a 'wait until launch' secret?

I've been moving along nicely.............

And I'd love to show you my progress, but when I try to post an image it comes up with big red text telling me -

"It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image", and I can't review or submit my post!

What am I doing wrong? I've posted many pics here, and I always do it the same way, but it's either I'm having a brain fart and forgetting something or there is something wrong with something... :doh: Have a look at my gallery if you'd like to see the progress I've achieved this week.

Oh well, that's it for now, have a safe new year everyone!

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:42 am
by TRC886
I occasionally have the same brain f... and get the same red text. This happens when I try to copy the link at the top of the page instead of right clicking the pic and clicking on "Copy Image URL"

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:44 pm
by WouldWork
Thanks for the tip TRC, I'm sure I was doing it right, shall try again though...

So I made a tool for scribing the bottom curve to cut the skeg out... (Crude picture warning) :lol:

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Worked beautifully, measured, cut out and laminated the skeg.

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Fitted the Skeg

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Then I drew and cut out a breast hook, which gave me an idea..

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Hmmmmm how about some decking?

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Dry Fitted it..

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Then Fitted it.

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Needs some cleaning up, but I'm happy.

Lastly I measured the stern seat, what a pain that is to get it lined up nicely with the hull. It still requires some trimming, but it's touching the sides all the way around, hopefully wont need too much putty filling.

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I going to have to use the stern seat as a template as the ply has a small area of delamination, maybe a solid piece of wood? Bit heavy perhaps?

After that I'll be fitting the daggerboard trunk, followed by the mid seat, not looking forward to getting that shape accurate. Lol

I'm progressing quite nicely at the moment, about an hour a day. :wink: I'd better order the sail soon I guess.

Take care all

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:33 pm
by ks8
So what's the name ks8? Or is it a 'wait until launch' secret?
The name is in the signature at the bottom of all my posts... :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:45 pm
by WouldWork
That makes sense ks8.

Didn't get much done on the boat this weekend. Trimmed the stern seat to perfection, sanded a bit inside and out. This week I'll fit the stern seat, if I can sand back the delaminated patch and maybe put some resin/glass on it to guarantee a seal. It's on the under-side, so it won't ever be seen. I'm just worried other patches of delamination may become apparent later on..

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That's not glued in of coarse, just sittin there lookin pretty.

I also played around with the name a little. The only decent pic I had of the boat was pre-glass, and upside down. Anyway, I think the name will look nice with some placement trials.

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And just one more pic, just because it looks nice.

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I'll keep moving with the stern seat fitment and move on to the mid seat and daggerboard trunk.

Big praise to Jacques, the V12's shape is truly gorgeous, hope I can give it the finish is deserves.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:18 pm
by WouldWork
Hi All,

Slow progress on the boat, but progress never the less..

Seat cleats

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Seat with a lot on its mind...

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Seat ready to be sat on

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Now if I can get the daggerboard trunk put in, and the mid seat on, I can fit some rub rails and get into fairing and sanding..

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:52 pm
by ks8
nice :)

the rubrail with give lots more too.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:52 pm
by WouldWork
Good afternoon friends,

Following a lengthy hiatus from, well, everything, I'm back and my V12 is beginning to progress once more. I had a change of career, left town for 6 months training, moved house twice and now it's full steam ahead.

Photo's to come soon, hopefully tonight. I've fitted the dagger board trunk, and mid seat cleats. The seat itself is ready to go on once the cleats session is cured.

Feels great to be at it again, I hope everyone is fine and healthy.

Cameron.

And the pics....

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Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:58 am
by WouldWork
I've waited up after getting the kids to bed just so I could remove the clamps and tape and see how the mid seat looks when sitting in place. It looks great, but I have some advice for fellow builders....

Don't ever take 12 months off building a boat. When you get back in to it, it's easy to feel super eager, and go at it like a bull at a gate trying to make up for lost time. As you can see in the picture, some idiot has gone and glued his cleats in, placed them beautifully beneath the line he'd painstakingly scribed instead of on top of the aforementioned line...

Now I have to pretend it was deliberate, I wanted to double up the cleat for extra strength... or something.. I'll simply glue another cleat on top, perfect! As planned... right?

Now I'll just wait patiently for some considerate builders come along and tell me it's an easy mistake to make, happens to the best of us, it's easily fixed... but gentlemen, honestly, I don't mind if you have a good long laugh at it. I know I did.

Cameron.

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Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:22 pm
by ks8
:lol: feel better? :)

at least your double cleat won't show -- like this does. :wink:

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Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:37 am
by WouldWork
KS8 that's a very decorative effect you have there... it might start a trend...

I had a great idea on my build.. I'll double up my cleats for extra strength, clever right?

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I had some nice weather recently, so I took the boat outside for a bit of sanding.

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I've also fabricated a couple of knees, and glued in the first half of the mast partner.

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So it's progressing slowly, but progressing at least.

Hopefully doing more this coming week, might just be sanding so not particularly interesting photos. Once I have the rub rails on, I can glue in the knees and the top half of the mast partner. Then I'll have a million years of sanding, yay!!

Take care all.

Cameron.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:21 am
by WouldWork
Hi all,

Progress continues.

Rubrails are on, knees at the back are on, Mast step is in, started resin coating some bits here and there to get an idea of how they might look varnished bright.

Fabricated a mast;

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Put a dry box up front, light weight 6mm, may serve as a shelf as well.

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Won't be long now...

I'm going to leave the inside bright and paint the outside white with a darker as yet unknown colour for the rubrails.

Take care all

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:29 am
by jacquesmm
That is a nice solid mast. :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:31 am
by tcason
Looks great

Love the brightwork

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:27 am
by ks8
8)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:11 am
by terrulian
Great looking work! Awaiting updates.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:15 am
by WouldWork
Hi friends, I'm back. I moved house a year and a half ago and have only just managed to get the boat to my new house. I don't think I'm going for the record here, but going on 4 years has to be right up there with longest V12 builds?

I managed to find all the other bits like the tiller and the rudder. The boat is filthy, but all in tact.

Anyway, i measured and cut the top half of the mast partner and glued it on.

Today I've filled the small gap between the bottom of the mast partner and the top of the rub rail. Tomorrow I'll make the centreboard and that should conclude all actaul building... Then it's sanding time.

I'll upload some pics once I've cleaned it up a bit, it's depressing seeing it so dirty.

Good to be back at it, and this time I'll finish!!

Regards

Cam.

Sorry can't attach pics from my phone, it won't give me the target url. It's in the gallery though if anyone wants to see.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pid=60211

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:19 am
by ks8
Nice. Sure looking ready for finishing. :D

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Enjoy the new home, and finishing her up. :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 10:44 am
by terrulian
Welcome back! I'll be watching with interest.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:08 pm
by WouldWork
Hello,

Firstly, thanks KS8 for uploading my pics to the thread. I'm on the computer today so I shouldn't have a problem.

I haven't done much worth showing as sanding is pretty boring but I thought I'd post anyway so you guys don't think I've taken another year off. Lol.

I've just been sanding the hull, the mast and the tiller. I'm thinking of doing the whole boat bright, no paint so I kinda have to get it looking really nice to pull it off.

I've varnished the mast and the tiller, pics really don't show the really nice grain in either, I'll get some pics out in the sun later.

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As I get the final resin coat on the hull, followed by varnish and or paint I'll keep the pics coming.

I need to arrange a sail. There's a local guy that will make a complete sail to spec for $500 Aussie, I know Bateau do them for much less but with the Aussie dollar tracking poorly against the US and then freight, it might be a viable option locally. Alternatively I'll make a starters sail out of a tarpaulin. We'll see.

Take care

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:31 am
by ks8
Some might enjoy you documenting the sail, if you do anything unique other than what is on the plans. :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:18 pm
by WouldWork
Hey guys,

KS8, if i do make a sail I shall document it, unless i do a terrible job in which case I'll bin it and buy one and say that was always the plan. ;)

I've done the daggerboard, except for contouring it, which I'll do next week. I'll glass the whole daggerboard for strength and also because it was a seriously ugly piece of ply. It fits beautifully in the trunk. I've ordered some gudgeons and pintles for the rudder, and I bought some rope and a small block for the sprit rigging. I did however notice last night that I no longer have the sprit... Gosh darn it, I'll have to make another.

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Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:51 am
by terrulian
Very cool. Keep those pictures coming.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:22 pm
by WouldWork
terrulian wrote:Very cool. Keep those pictures coming.

Tony your replies keep me motivated. I feel guilty if I haven't done much each day now. I'll keep at it, but I just ran out of resin. I ordered some more the other day so hopefully I'll be back at it by weekend. I'm pretty much ready to resin coat the whole show, then a quick sand and another resin coat. If it looks good from there, I'll consider varnishing the lot, otherwise I'll identify areas that look crap and fair/paint them. I'll need a couple of weeks to get the wood and make a replacement sprit, but other than that I think all building has concluded. Except of course the sail, which I've decide to make out of poly tarp for now. Just to see if it floats and sails. I've never sailed before, so it could be interesting. The idea of this boat was just to learn the techniques to build something bigger. Being that I no longer live on the coast, and have a large lake down the road I may just get into sailing. If not, I'll consider selling this one while building a GF12 for the kids and I to have fun at the lake chasing redclaw and barramundi.

Well enough of my life story, I'm going to put my feet up and relax while I wait for the resin to turn up.

Take care

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:25 am
by ks8
Make sure the board will still fit after glassing, fairing, and painting. Mine just *barely* fit. Yes, of course, it was the plan all along. :wink: At first it didn't fit (just barely) because of a double thickness of paint finish where two sections of *finish* overlapped on the board. Had to sand that down to a single thickness of finish system, back to the original project plan. Only then did it *just barely fit*, ideally to help minimize rattle. I've never had any rattle or hum, and so far it still moves smoothly in the trunk and slot, BUt I do have to keep it clean and be careful of sand getting in that gap. Beaching doesn't get up to the slot area (so far :lol: ). :)

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Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:08 pm
by WouldWork
Thanks for the tip KS8, I have been curious and mindful about this. Can I ask the proverbial 'how long is a piece of string?' - just how many mm do you think being glassed both sides, faired, primed and painted twice will add to the thickness? I still have a bit to play with now. I have the same considereration to make with the rudder and tiller slot, which is already tight. I can sand a mm or so off either inside of the tiller slot and still have lots of meat left though.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:34 pm
by terrulian
Poly tarps are used in many parts of the world, along with old cotton sheets or any fabric they can come across.
It'd be a good idea to get a sailing for dummies or similar book just so you'll have some idea of how things work. And I would wait for a gentle, but not too gentle, steady breeze. Going out on a blustery day may be discouraging, depending on your personality. Some people would thrive on capsizing all day the first time out. I can't say I'm like that....quite. 8O

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:51 pm
by ks8
Regarding how much the glass and finish thickens the board, I imagine there is a chart for that sort of thing. I probably even have one in my Gerr book, but when I built my CB trunk and CB, I guestimated. I used biax on the board (12 oz I think), and used 6 oz cloth in the trunk (before it was assembled). I left enough room in the trunk, at the slot, to wrap glass around into it and still have enough room for the board. That area was not glassed before assembly. Then I ground it just a little more so the wrapped in glass would end up being close to the same final thickness as the rest of the glass. Worked out well. I figured about 1/8 inch of glass, fairing, and paint finish on the board (1/16th each side), and slightly less build up than that in the trunk dimension (resulting in a narrowing of the trunk). To avoid having to make the trunk appropriately thicker for the trunk interior glass too, I glassed the surfaces of the interior of the trunk before bonding in the spacers, so I just made the spacers as thick as I guestimated the final board thickness, plus the finish system in the trunk. I'm guessing you've gone through the same sort of thinking it through. I don't have mm for you at the moment. I figured on the thick side for laminates and paint, and it turned out just right after that slight fix. If it was looking much less build up than that, I could always add 4 oz glass to the board before final fairing and painting. I was learning as I went along. Still am. Hope I always am. :)

Of course, there is a lot less thought needed if one isn't aiming at the nice close fit. The design dimensions of course work well, but there is a bit of fine tuning as soon as one changes anything, like adding glass if the plans did not have a glassed board, or adding glass to the inside of the trunk so it outlives me. I had read about one or two snapped boards, and I was experimenting with ACX and BCX (which I would not recommend to anyone (use goodmarine wood)). I did not trust the board or the interior of the trunk without first adding glass to it. Glad I did. And that is what required adjustments beyond the dimensions on the plans. Additionally, this trunk and CB modification was early in the build, so Ihad to break in the thinking chair with something, right? :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:34 pm
by WouldWork
Thank you KS8, that is precious info, even if only a guestimate. 1/8" is about 3mm, being that I have about that much play in there right now, I won't have to take much off for a snug finished fit. I didn't glass the inside of my trunk, but definitely considered it albeit after it was in place.

I will never use exterior ply or second rate so called 'marine' ply again regardless of what a good deal a supplier claims to be giving me. Having shaped the daggerboard and rudder's taper at the trailing edges, one immediately sees how crap the inside sheets are on cheap ply. It barely even looks like wood in places. I'll eventually replace both the daggerboard and rudder with a piece of solid wood or 1088 ply, but for now I'll load them up with epoxy and glass to get me on the water.

Tony, I've been paying more attention to the wind and weather since nearing on completion. I went outside the other day, must be blowing 25kn's, thought to myself - not testing the boat on a day like today. I'd rather not capsize it at all, although I'm well aware it's possible with me being an absolute novice.

A colleague of mine is a former upholsterer, and while not a sail maker, he has made a couple. He doesn't know it yet, but he'll be helping me with the sail. I need to get that rolling. I figure realistically I'm looking at glassing and prepping the daggerboard and rudder this coming week. Sanding then resin coating the hull the following week. Let the hull sit with resin coats for the week after that while I make the sail and start some rigging. Varnish/paint the hull, daggerboard & rudder the following week and then complete any rigging bits, cleats etc. that's about 4 - 5 weeks left to go.

In a 4 year build, it aint really a long time so I'm loving every moment working on it.

Next post should have some daggerboard and rudder pics.

Take care.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:48 pm
by ks8
My Centerboard of cheap plywood is still holding up after being converted to a cored composite.

After all the fixes and glassing, both rudder and CB are doing well. So it *can* be done. But it was basically changing a simple double thick plywood appendage into a cored glass skinned composite appendage. Had to do lots of fixes with the garbage wood. BS1088 is my aim for future floaty things. :)

But now, I don't remember if I put a final layer of 6 oz on the board and rudder or not. I might have... Checked the pictures. No. Just biax on them.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:36 pm
by WouldWork
Yep... That's how mine looks. Not quite as bad though. Perhaps it will last, if puttied and glassed well.

Yet another lesson for a novice builder, but a lesson learnt.

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So I'll resin it, then putty fill the small gaps, sand and fair then glass. 200gr glass, full coverage.

I'm assuming my daggerborad will look very similar so it will get the same treatment.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:54 pm
by WouldWork
It looks like my rudder and daggerboard will hold together. I have a couple of pieces of solid timber to replace them with if they don't. For anyone else who finds themselves working with rubbish ply.... here's what I did.

Wet out the tapered areas with resin, then made a thin batch of thickened resin and painted it over the trailing edges nice and thick.

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Then I did the edges again wetting out first then a heavy coat of thickened resin/putty.

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I'm using a slow hardener, hoping it absorbs further into the wood. The wood is soaking up a lot of resin while curing so hopefully it's working.

Following that I faired both nice and smooth. There were a couple of spots for a bit of putty here and there but it came up nice and smooth.

Next I glassed the daggerboard top and bottom and a strip on the edges.

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I didn't glass the whole rudder, just the leading edge, the tapered trailing edge and the taper itself. Photo only shows the first edge being done, but you get the idea.

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Finally I sanded off the rough edges and applied a nice coat of resin top and bottom.

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Not only is it now sealed and a lot stronger, but the wood grain is still nicely visible despite the fibreglass. They'll both get a good sanding and another resin coat before varnishing.

I also fitted a couple of lugs either side of my daggerboard trunk for an elastic strap to hold the daggerboard inp lace while sailing.

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It's been raining everyday here for a couple of weeks now but meant to be fining up next week. If so, I can get the hull out and start giving it a final sand followed by a resin coat or 2.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:36 pm
by ks8
Nice. :)

With a daggerboard (unlike a Centerboard that articulates), you don't want it to be strong as a steel plate, so that if you bump into a rock or shoal, the board breaks instead of the boat/trunk. If you ever do a walk and shop in a dinghy shop (like a pro shop for dinghy sailing), you'll likely see a bin full of spare daggerboards and rudders (blades) for the popular local small racing classes, optimist, sunfish, etc, because... they tend to get broken now and then, and need quick replacing with blades within *spec*. :wink: That board looks like it will be happy. You can adjust the bungee that will hold the board down in the slot, just enough, which will make it more possible for the board to bump up into the slot if you hit bottom, instead of breaking. No guarantees. :lol: ALso, maybe an extra hole through the board, with a wood peg on a lanyard to stick in that hole, to hold the board half way down instead of all the way down. This sometimes works on some points of sail and conditions, to make for a different type of performance (experiment :) ), instead of it being either all the way down or completely removed. I went for full glassed and strong because my CB and rudder both articulate fully (yes, they've been tested :lol: :oops: Didn't even ding! :) but its not a contest... :lol: ) . Your plywood is workable compared to mine. :lol: Good shopping. :)

Without an articulating rudder, sometimes a bungee or spring steel is used to hold the rudder in the gudgeons, with just enough tension to keep it in there. Same principle.... a hard bottom strike and the rudder will pop up and out of the gudgeons, in theory. I don't know how well that works, but it is important enough to note that the rudder is not typically mounted with a permanent type hinge, not just for ease of transportation, but for lessening damage in a bottom strike. :) No guarantees....

I *could* tell you to simply avoid rocks and the bottom, but then I haven't set the best example there....lessons learned, I hope. :lol:

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:22 pm
by WouldWork
KS8 thanks again for your insights. Maybe I'll just avoid rocks altogether :wink: :lol: The lake I intend to sail her in is reasonably free of rocky bottoms, but does have submerged trees.

I think I've achieved 'functionality,' and on a scale of 1 to 5 for finish, I'm sitting around a 3.

Will it work? yes. Will it last? yes. Is it strong? yes. Is it pretty? fairly. My goal is achieved.

So here's the rudder, ready to go. Mind you I still have to install pintles and gudgeons.

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And then the daggerboard. I like the knot in the ply here. Since it's a non-structural bit, I thought having a 'feature' of the timber would look nice and natural.

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I got bored waiting for epoxy to cure, so I tied a rope to my block and found a split-pin and bolt to be able to assemble my rudder and tiller. I'll get a nicer bolt before I finish.

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Then I decided to glass my skeg. The boat will likely always be car-topped and due to it's shape and my 4WD having a canopy, it won't sit on upside down, It has to sit the right way up. So the skeg rests on the roof bars, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to glass it.

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I'm sorry the pics don't do any justice to the several hours of work that I've put in, in the last week or so. I need to keep moving, I will launch in August so every day counts and updating the forum is part of the process that keeps me on track.

Take care all

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:50 pm
by ks8
A thought on cartopping....

I used to car top the kayak. i had a utility trailer sitting there doing nothing. personal preference now is.... i find it easier to pull even a small trailer for kayaks (or a liftable small boat) than to try to car top. the extra work for the trailer far outweighs the risk of pulling a muscle trying to solo the kayak up on the roof. so if it is plausible, i go for the small trailer. i couldn't *joyfully* be lifting and lowering a V10 or V12, even if it was light enough. The windage would spook me too much. But then everyone knows their own personal minimums.. :D

Now for long trips over the road of hundreds of miles, I'm more likely to cartop the kayak, but again, a V10 would have my mind too much on the roof instead of on the road. I'd like to see what you work out for the roof, when you get there. Some lifting rigs have been used. But I'm still leary of of the windage, and rain if transported upright without a full cover. looking forward to what you work out. :D

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:45 pm
by WouldWork
KS8,

A trailer is the end goal. Even a box utility trailer will do. I've been shopping around and it's hard to find anything under $1,000. The problem with a purpose built boat trailer is they're more expensive and that suddenly makes a budget home made boat into a substantial financial outlay. Unfortunately I don't weld, never tried and never really worked with steel so making one isn't an option either. If I could get a utility trailer for a good price then it's something I'll use anyway and can transport the boat as a bonus.

I car-topped the V12 from my old house to my new a couple of months ago which is about 100 miles of reasonable road. It stayed on but the roof bars moved around a bit. It was a relatively easy lift with 2 men getting it on and off. Not something I want to do over and over though.

I'll keep shopping for a box trailer but for launch day and any near future sailing days it will be a straight lift up top, tie down to roof bars and away I go. I may have a shed to store it at the lake so there's another option.

I'd like to build a GF12 after this and it's flat bottom would be fine in a box trailer as well. All things indicate I need a trailer. I'll just get this girl finished and sailing then evaluate frequency and ease of use and go from there.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:22 am
by tcason
look for a jet ski trailer

should be able to get a used one for $500 or so

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:39 am
by Jaysen
seems like a harbor freight "frame" trailer would be enough for transport. I wouldn't use it for actual launch... They are dirt cheap.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:14 am
by WouldWork
I just googled those harbour freight trailers... So cheap!! Don't seem to be available in Australia though.

Jetski trailers still up around $800-$1200 around here. Cheaper than boat or utility trailers though.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:55 am
by WouldWork
Hi guys, just a couple of pics to update progress.

I've been working on the appendages and things.

Mast, sprit, tiller, rudder and daggerboard. They're complete, except for the rudder gudgeons, which should only be a couple of days away.

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The mast fits in the mast hole and the daggerboard fits in the daggerboard hole. Gotta love that.

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i hung the tiller and rudder off the back just to see how it looks. As I said I'm still waiting for the gudgeons and pintles to turn up.

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I'll be getting the varnish to finish up in the next two weeks. I'm going to use a 2 part Northane clear gloss polyurethane. I've used spar marine varnish for the appenages and things.

With just sanding and varnishing left to go there's not really much worth updating as far as 'progress' unless I document making the sail. So it's possible I may not update this thread again until it's launch day. having said that, anything else I come up with or problems I run into I'll put them up right away.

Takre care all.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:51 am
by Grainhopper
Looking good.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:38 am
by WouldWork
Thanks Doug. It's an exciting time in the build but I get very impatient waiting for varnish or resin to set. I just want it done now! Lol I'm hoping my gudgeons and pintles turn up tomorrow to give me something to do over the weekend. I've got to get into the city to get some more resin, a bit of paint and the finish varnish but that could be a couple of weeks away. It'll drive me crazy waiting.

How's your build going? Did you get your glass seams all done?

Take care

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:24 pm
by WouldWork
Things are really coming together! When you start tying ropes and screwing bits together you realise just how close you are to finishing.

Gudgeons and pintles turned up. Did a test fit, looks good.

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So then I drilled out the holes oversized, put resin then thickened resin in the holes, covered the bolts in thickened resin and refitted the rudder gudgeons. Wiped the edges etc... Should be sealed and strong.

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Now for the rigging, I know this boat has minimal rigging and I'm not going to use a boom right away making it even simpler, but I still have some questions...

I have a hole drilled near the top of my mast, if I have a eyelet or D-ring at the throat I can just tie it off to the hole in my mast? Or even just tie it to the mast?

Also, the tack, do I just tie it to the mast making sure the sail is pulled tight between the throat and tack? Or should I use a cleat on the mast? The plans state that with no haylard, you don't need to lace the sail along the mast, just tied to the top and bottom making sure there's good tension. Now being that I don't know what a haylard is, I've opted to not have it. :lol:

The peak, I'm going to have a pocket sewn into the sail so the sprit will sit in said pocket to prop the peak up. Or am I better off with an eyelet or D-ring in the sail and tying it to the sprit?

The clew will just be a eyelet or D-ring as there's no boom.

Lastly, tying the block to the mast, what kind of knot? I've done a dry rig without a sail and tied it to the mast with a simple hitch like this?

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Will that suffice, and if not can someone tell me the right knot to tie here please?

I know I said 'lastly' on the previous question, but I've though of another..... To anchor the rope from the block holding the sprit in place - the plans suggest either a cleat on the partner or on the mast. The advantage of it being on the mast is that the whole show can rotate and the advantage to it being on the partner is it will keep it all together if and when I capsize. Any advice on this? I'm leaning toward putting a cleat on the mast.

If the first step in learning to sail was being able to build a sailing boat, then i'm almost there!

I'll finish the transom next, as in sand it, resin it and varnish it so it's done. Then I can drill out the holes for the pintles, fill them with putty, and refit the pintles. Then I'll work forward sanding for resin coats. I'm going to paint the rubrails as the joins are a bit ugly and also where they terminated at the transom and meet at the bow is not beautiful. I used thickened epoxy to make them even and fair, but it might look a bit out of place if varnished.

Anyway, I hope someone following this can offer advice on the above questions. I didn't want to start a new thread and take up room in the boards technical area due to this boat being almost finished and if I don't get advice I'll just trial and error stuff until I get it right.

Take care

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:27 am
by Jaysen
I just looked at my V12 plans and JM included a nice rigging explanation. I may have more understanding of rigging since I'd been lusting for a "blow boat" for a while and had been trying to decide what rigging would work best for me before I decided on the V12. My local library had some good books that I started with. You may want to look up "sprit sail rigging" in google and read some of the longish explanations. That said, my answers are mostly theory and "big boat" experience.

Halyard is the line to raise the sail and maintain tension on the luff.
If you are not using a halyard, i'd consider using a downhaul on the tack to allow you to tension the luff as the sail stretches. Then you would fix the throat with a pin. Doing it the other way... pinned at the tack with adjustable tension at the throat... that's a halyard.

Pocket at the peak is perfectly fine. But you may find more wear on the sail/pocket fabric. Eyelet with a loop to the sprit would increase the life of the sail between repairs.

My rigging will be a bit more complicated (only because I'm stupid) and all block will be attached "though" the mast using stainless eyebolts. But I think your hitch (I think that's the clove hitch) should be ok considering how little the sail and boat are.

If you want to secure the mast, do it under the partner and not via the a line/cleat. A simple pin under the partner will hold it in place. freedom of the mast to rotate in the partner is something that all the skiff sailing lit says is important for sprit rigged boats. As to it all coming apart at capsize, that might a a good thing. the mast should float long enough for you to right the hull and secure the rigging. Righting a hull free of the mast/sail is much easier. Mine will be free with a "retaining line" to make sure I don't lose the rigging. If I go over I want to pull the mast and make my life easy. I'm that kind of lazy.

Which brings up another point that I've been thinking about. Rudder, dagger and oars should be secured as well if you expect to capsize. I expect to windup up swimming every time I go out (again... I'm stupid). make sure any retention lines you use are long enough for you to "clear" the hull for righting, but not so long as to present a real obstacle. I've been told that this is an impossible state but one that will be found the more you are ... wrong side up. I figure I'll get it figured out on my first trip.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:19 am
by WouldWork
Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it.

I've read so much, several books, online blogs, wikipedia, reviews, pretty much anything I can get. I've received advice from a friend on this board also. I just wanted some extra points of view, from someone familiar with this design. I have read through the sprit explanations provided with the plans and yes, they are great. I guess the problem is - the more I read, the more options I come across, the more confusion I have with what's the best way to go. I'm happy to just tie it all up, hit the water and see what happens if need be. Lol

Your tips are just what I wanted, thanks.

I'll rethink the pocket for the peak idea, maybe a loop will be better.

I'll maintain not having a haylard... Yet.

Everything in the boat will either be secured or have a suitable lanyard for recovery.

I am a complete sailing novice, and I realise all the theory in the world is going to only get me so far. I need to get in the boat and see how I go. I'm very excited to do so.

Never know, I may encourage others teetering on the edge of giving it a go to go right ahead and do so. On the other hand, an epic fail or two may discourage some from ever trying... Sorry in advance. Hehe.

I still have a couple of weeks left to resin/varnish/paint so the extra little tips or pieces of advice, I find priceless. Sets my mind a little easier.

Thanks again.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:57 am
by terrulian
Great looking, clean work throughout the build. You're getting very close!
I'm sure you've read by now that capsizing is just part of the deal. Even really experienced sailors are going to go for a swim once in awhile.
That said, I'm going to offer another consideration on the mast not being secured. I understand the logic, but I think you will be able to right the boat with the mast still stepped. You swim it around until the bow is in the wind, otherwise the wind will just put you back where you started. Stand on the centerboard and grab the gunwale and as it comes up, jump in. You will probably need a few tries at first. Then bail. The boat will have a lot of water in it so you need to take a bailer. A plastic gallon milk jug cut in half will work fine.
If the mast is not stepped, on a blustery day you may find it difficult to fish it and the sail out of the water, and then balance yourself on the boat as you attempt to step it. It would probably be doable on a calm day, however.
A float at the top of the mast is a good idea. Maybe I mentioned this before. Catamaran sailors use them and although they are available commercially, you can tape a milk jug to the masthead. Put the cap on. :lol: This prevents the boat from inverting during a capsize. You probably won't need it after awhile but getting your mast stuck in the mud is a real pain, and can be expensive.

http://www.mustoskiff.com/sub-pages/mast-head-float.htm

I'm very excited to see you get on the water, so post pictures.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:22 pm
by Jaysen
That's a good point. Stepping the mast with wet sail will be much much more difficult than a dry mast and sail on shore. Especially out here on the coastline.

You see any issues with the retaining pin below the partner?

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:52 pm
by ks8
Nice progress Cam. :D

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:22 pm
by terrulian
You see any issues with the retaining pin below the partner?
I don't, can't visualize an issue, but I've never sailed this boat before.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:25 pm
by Jaysen
terrulian wrote:
You see any issues with the retaining pin below the partner?
I don't, can't visualize an issue, but I've never sailed this boat before.
Picture a sprit rig on the front of your v10 :)

I was thinking a dowel places about 1/2 the thickness of the step below the partner. That should keep the mast in the step at any angle but still allow free rotation.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
I would not have the mast where it can fall out during a capsize, and the rudder can be secured with just a bungee cord. It is very easy to right a small sailboat, mast, sail and all, if you know how. I've done it hundreds of times.

Point the boat directly into the wind and loosen both sheets. (Don't want that sail to catch air and leave without you :wink: ) Position yourself on the up current side of the boat. Rig a line from your side of the gunwale, around the bottom of the boat and back across the gunwales to you. Now stand on the dagger board or center board, start pulling the line with your arms while pushing with your feet. The boat will spin like a top and the sail will dump the water.

I used to do a lot of competitive sailboat racing, big boats, dinghys, sailboards and catamarans. In 1978 we won the Miami Yacht Club Christmas regatta in one design Windmill class. It's a 14' plywood boat. A winter cold front came through strong, the wind was blowing 50-60 and we capsized at least 3 times on the windward and reaching legs. Maybe more. The finish run was dead downwind, and were close to the lead but not close enough. We threw up the spinnaker. wow! No guts, no glory, right :D We pitch poled twice on the downwind leg and still crossed the finish line in first place, full of water but still sailing :D

Sometime in the 1980's, I forget exactly, a good friend and I decided it would be a good idea to enter the Worrell 1000 with his Hobie Cat 18 . Not! It's a 1,000 mile beach catamaran ocean race, from Ft. Lauderdale to Virginia Beach. It was also blowing like stink and we capsized and pitch poled I don't know how many times. Dozens. But even a big wide cat can be righted fairly easy in the manner I described above. We had permanently rigged righting lines on the boat, pretty standard on catamaran hulls. The 3rd day leg stop was halfway, 500 miles to Tybee Island, and that's home to us. We were in about 15th place and a pair of drowned rats. Only race I've ever quit and it wasn't me who quit. My partner was done and he owned the boat. I do like to finish what I start, I ain't no quitter, even if it's in last place :oops:

Righting a little sailboat is no problem. Just need to know how. Point her into the wind, loosen the sheets, wrap a line around it, stand on the dagger board and pull the line. She'll come right up. Don't pull too hard or it will fall back on your head.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:30 pm
by WouldWork
Thanks guys, a healthy discussion on the subject is just what I needed. I don't even have friends that sail so this board is my bible.

I've planned to capsize, I'm expecting it so if the contrary occurs it will just be a pleasant surprise. I'll start on a day with a light breeze, I'm not looking for speed - which is lucky since this hull is no rocket anyway.

I'll chuck a float on the mast for sure.

I'll google some recovery lines and see what I can rig up.

I'll (now that it's been pointed out) carry a bailing jug.... On a lanyard.

Shall secure the block with my clove hitch, and anchor to a cleat on the mast.

The lake I'll launch her at is good, there's lots of little inlets, peninsulas so I can at least start with the wind at the right direction. I'll have a rescue boat or jetski on hand if needed. I'm a very strong swimmer so keeping up with a slowly drifting away boat shouldn't be a problem. I'll wear a life jacket just in case.

It's so exciting talking about actually sailing instead of technical build topics - reminds me she's almost ready to go!!

Unfortunately it's been raining for a week straight, so progress is limited to looking at her daydreaming about what's to be. Haha.

I'll take heaps of pics on launch day - this will catalogue everything a novice shouldn't do for other first time sailers. Haha.

I always planned to build this boat for experience alone, then to be sold to help finance somehing else. Problem is I'm really getting into the idea of sailing and enjoying this boat that I think looks so sweet! We shall see. Maybe I'll build a proper sail boat next... Who knows. I'll build something though.

Thanks again for compliments on the build, encouraging progress, and all the advice. KS8's been offering advice since day one of this build. Four years later and I'm almost there. Appreciate your patience.

I'll wait for the rain to stop - it is meant to be the dry season here, and keep at it.

Take care.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:42 pm
by ks8
:oops: Glad I could help a bit. Remember, there's good people here that have 100 times more experience actually sailing... and flopping...and righting... and racing.... and cruising... and crewing... and you name it... in all sorts of conditions. They've helped me alot just reading what has been said to others from that place of a lifetime of experience. :wink: And I think all us sailing newbies greatly appreciate their sage wisdom. :D Always learning. :)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:34 pm
by WouldWork
So who wants to visit me for lanuch day? Lol... KS8? CL? come on guys!

I've been very busy with the boat, getting in at least an hour a day. who woulda thought this close to the end that one could still spend hours and hours doing stuff. I guess I'm just trying to perfect and refine things. Mostly been sanding here and there so again, not terribly interesting pics. There's a bit of visible progress though.

So anyway, I put a strip of graphite along the bottom edge of the skeg and stretches up to a couple of inches past the daggerboard trunk. There was a messy joint in the daggerboard hole, and when I glassed the skeg the single piece of glass didn't manage the bend so there was a fair bit of sanding, grinding, filling and re-glassing. Ended up ok, but just a bit ugly - enter graphite.

Image

Image

My mast cleat for anchoring the sprit down turned up - fitted, drilled out, epoxy filled and re-fitted.

Image

I assembled the tiller and rudder with a nice stainless nut and bolt and some felt washers on the inner edges. Looks good (to me)

Image

And the most exciting bit in quite a while - I started finishing it! It's quite hot here and I have new resin so I'm working in stages. It seems I can work with 120mL of mixed resin at a time, as long as after mixing I transfer it into this large bucket.

Image

So the transom has it's first coat of epoxy

Image

As does the left bottom stern quarter.

Image

I'm just waiting for that to kick, so I have confidence in this new resin, then I'll get the wife helping keeping fresh batches of epoxy up to me as I coat the rest of the bottom.

I've decided on colour/bright scheme, not much to it but should look good. The rub rails will be a deep maroon red colour, as will the seat frames. Everything else will be bright. I've sanded through the top veneer a little on the side where the buttblock is. Seems the buttblock gave me a little flat spot that once faired showed a little of the ply's second veneer. Looks terribly ugly, but I may be able to stretch the decal for the name that far to cover it.

That's all for now gents, I'll finish the bottom completely, then the 'not-so-big' flip to start the inside.

Edit** update on new resin - cured fine, have now epoxy covered the bottom completely. Sand it tomorrow and coat it again then sand for varnish coats.

Take care all

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:58 am
by Jeff
Really nice work!! Jeff

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:11 am
by terrulian
Lovely look on the bright wood. I'm jealous.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:30 pm
by ks8
WouldWork wrote: I've been very busy with the boat, getting in at least an hour a day. who woulda thought this close to the end that one could still spend hours and hours doing stuff. I guess I'm just trying to perfect and refine things.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No doubt... full blown case of BBV. :help: Don't forget to sleep and eat and all other essentials in your life with and for others.... BBV makes all clocks spin much faster... and the entire universe... :wink:

8)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:29 am
by wegcagle
Looks fantastic. The more I am getting into my little build, the more I am being pressured to build the sailboat version. I've never sailed myself, but after watching all the little boats just off the beach on my last vacation I'm coming around. Seems like alittle 60-70lb boat would be amazing to beach launch and have for the family to mess around in. 8) I love the bright finish as well

Will

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:40 am
by Jaysen
Justin Pipkorn wrote: Image

The rudder also shown in the picture is also worth looking at. The shock cord holds the rudder down but if the rudder grounds out, the rudder blade lifts up and stays up. The trick is to get the rudder pivot and shock cord location to work out. It works. This way, if I sail into shallow water, I can focus on lifting the daggerboard and let the rudder take care of itself.
Justin, do you have a link to plans on this rudder or is it something you came up with on you own? Need to think of something like this for my v12... feel free to comment on my thread to avoid polluting WouldWork's (http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=61306)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:19 pm
by WouldWork
Jeff - thanks for the compliment, encourages me to maintain the standard. I want 'builder' status... Maybe if I pull this off with a beautiful finish you guys might consider it? Lol Just kidding, I'm really just trying to keep to my own standards and expectations. I have a mental image of the finished product and that's the minimum finish.

Terrulian - I'm loving the bright work on this, the FG weave isn't showing but you can see in places the timber is a slightly lighter colour where the tape runs. It's not too noticable though which is good.

KS8 - The weather has taken care of my need to remember other important parts of life and family. It won't stop raining and I'm kind of stalled waiting. I'm building in a temporary tarp shelter so I like to bring the boat outside for sanding. The forecast is looking up in the coming week or so. Hopefully I can finish. As for BBV - yup, got it bad and the only cure is to keep building right? Good thing is there's only 12 or 13 more boats on the site that I really like and want to build so I should be cured in about 30 years.... Lol

Wegcagle - A sail boat without a sail is just a boat... I've never sailed at all, one bit! But the closer I get to finishing, the more excited I am about trying. I think sailing may become addictive, we'll see.

Jaysen - Feel free to 'pollute' the post, it keeps it all together for other builders considering similar ideas. I think KS8 may be able offer advice on an articulating rudder/daggerboard.

I've found and bought a trailer, so the car-topping idea will thankfully be put to bed. I got a 7x5 box trailer for $50. She's a bit rusty but nothing a bit of hard-yakka can't fix.

I'll put up some pics of the trailer and boat once the rain stops.

Take care all

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:51 pm
by WouldWork
Th weather finally came good, and I am recovered from a flu that had me out of action for a couple of weeks.

On the home stretch now, epoxy coats sanded smooth and 2 clear coats on the bottom done. It'll get another 2 coats of clear tomorrow, then comes another not so big flip and I'll start on the inside.

The rubrails are still rather ugly, but they're to be painted.

Image

Image

Image

So I'll epoxy coat the inside, sand it smooth as well as the rubrails, then paint the rubrails and seat frames, then 4 clear coats to finish up. Then.... Um.... Then I think that's it!

Take care all

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:39 pm
by Fuzz
That right there is some pretty work :!: No way I would ever try to finish my work bright like that :( Amazing , clean job you are doing.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:33 am
by Jeff
Beautiful finish!!! Yes, get us interior photos when possible. Again, really beautiful work!! Jeff

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:05 am
by terrulian
Yes, quite amazing how nice you've faired everything without fairing compound. I don't think I would ever even attempt that.
You say "clear coat" but maybe I missed what it is you are using?

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:57 am
by Jaysen
W and T must be hanging out together.

I will say though... that ply looks might sharp all shiny like that. I may need to rethink my "paint it all" policy.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:14 am
by cape man
That my friend is a GORGEOUS boat.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:57 am
by Cracker Larry
Beautiful work 8)

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:14 pm
by WouldWork
Thanks guys! Really, thanks a lot! Makes all the sanding and sweating worth it when you get awesome comments. Believe me though, she has some rough spots - she's far from perfect. It's a finish I'm happy with though which is exactly where it needs to be.

Tony it's just a 2 part polyeurethane finish - I apologise if my 'clear coat' terminology is confusing. Lovely woodgrain is actually rather forgiving when it comes to fairing. The designer did the hard work, I just try to get it right. Largely a fluke I think. It doesn't have to be perfectly flat to look that way as the grain hides minor blemishes. I love the look. The timber is always going to be a slightly different shade under the FG but it's not too noticeable. She's going to look great on the lake under sail, just hope she's not upside down for most of it. Haha.

The bottom is now officially complete. I'll flip her tomorrow and start on the inside with plenty of pics I promise. If I spend the whole day sanding it won't get a finish coat until Monday so I'll update some pics then.

Pics to come as soon as the inside starts to look pretty.

Thanks again guys.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:46 pm
by Buz
Wow! Your boat is inspiration for this new boatbuilder!

Your comment about the effect of the wood grain toward the need for final fairing has me rethinking things before I even get started.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:53 pm
by WouldWork
Just painted a small piece of ply for a colour comparison. The rub rails and seat frames and maybe the daggerboard trunk will be this colour. It's a slightly metallic colour so had a bit of sparkle in the sunlight.


Image


Buz, just a point to consider....

My first build was a CC14, the free and basic canoe on this site. I remember when I resin coated it, it looked awesome - it looked even and flat and smooth. I was such a newb I thought it would be fine to go ahead and paint. Needless to say once painted I noticed so many sopts that needed much more fairing. I did a bit more to it and finished it off nicely but the point I make is that you can get away with less fairing when you're not painting. It does mean you have to put a lot of effort into getting her straight and flat and even as you're always aware that you can't rescue unevenness or ugly spots with fairing compound. All in all it's probably not any less work or any easier it's more just knowing what you're in for and knowing what you want to get out of it. I love my canoe, I use it all the time. And I'm loving this dinghy too so like I said, it's exactly where it needs to be.

My rubrails are ugly on this boat. I struggled with the compound cuts needed to make them meet flush at the tip of the bow. I ended up making a proxy epoxy bow point. At the transom I measures poorly and one side lined up nice while the other side was probably half an inch shorter. Again I rescued this with a thickened epoxy blob. Hence why I am painting those - I can fair and sand and smooth and everything else until happy then paint will cover what my lack of woodworking shows. It'll look 'as good' as the rest and no-one ever need know I couldn't measure and cut multi-angled pieces to meet in the same spot.

As you build though, experiment with things. Try different techniques. Read as many threads on here as possible. Always keep your own goals close and follow people with similar ideas to get it right for you. Sorry for the blab, it's just this boat building stuff is fun and rewarding as long as people are willing to help quell your doubts and inspire your dreams!

Take care all.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:19 am
by terrulian
That reminds me, I also glassed the rub rails.
Buz, you're doing the right thing. When I started my build I wanted to leave nothing clear, because I have a neurotic aversion to varnishing. (I know, Larry says EMC clear is bulletproof but there is no way my boat was going to receive delicate enough treatment to justify that kind of investment.) But as time went on and as I looked at other builds, my resolve weakened and I wanted some wood showing; but at that point, previous decisions made it impossible to do anything but paint some parts because I'd already faired them. So now's the time for you to think it through.
I ended up putting light glass on all clear areas, because once you ding the varnish by putting an oar or toolbox on it hastily, it's gone and you'll end up with a water stain requiring complete sanding and re-coating. This fear was not misplaced; I've already knocked it hard enough to have gone through varnish, but the glass has, so far, left the finish OK. Paint is much easier, in my experience, to touch up.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:31 am
by WouldWork
Hi guys,

I've been dealing with more rain, more illnesses but have overcome and finally have more progress...

I've sanded the inside and completed the resin coats. It still needs a bit of sanding though, there's some inconsistencies in the colour of the grain. I think due to some water stains and some areas that were previously resin coated and also the lighter patches under the FG. My experience from the outside of the hull is with each sanding and subsequent resin or clear coat, the patchy bits become less and less noticeable. Hopefully that's the case as I progress toward the finish.

Mast Partner

Image

Mid seat

Image

Rear seat and knees

Image

Transom and rudder

Image

And the front, which looks... ok... When I paint the rubrails, it will lap over the top a little to cover the thickened resin edge you see here.

Image

Like I said, the patchiness reduces with more sanding and coating. I'll keep working it until it looks as nice as the outside. There's also a bit of excess resin runs and blobs that need to be flattened and smoothed. It's really good to get the resin on though as the boat is now sealed and the ply finally protected, and it shows the rough spots that need sanding.

Take care all.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:30 am
by Jaysen
That looks great. How much did you cut off the bow seat to make it usable in front of the partner?

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:03 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work!! Jeff

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:07 am
by WouldWork
Thanks Jaysen, thanks Jeff

I actually abandoned the bow seat altogether. I remember reading somewhere in either the building notes or the forum that the bow seat isn't necessary for the sailing version as the mast partner provides the hull rigidity that the bow seat otherwise would.

What you see there is just a dry box/shelf that I put up front with a couple of off-cuts. I'm not sure of the dimensions of it, it's 10:00pm here so I'll check it in the morning when I have some light. With the reasonably short breast hook and gap between it and the partner, it's feasable it may seat a small child, but that's definitely not the program.

Thanks

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:02 am
by cape man
Very sexy looking boat! Impressed!

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:16 pm
by WouldWork
Thanks cape man, I hope the maroon rubrails really set it off, we'll know soon.

Jaysen that front shelf is 500mm long x 300mm high, which is about 20 x 12 inches I think.

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:24 am
by Jaysen
Thanks Cam. I'll have to give it some thought once I get the bottom done and start on the inside. I like what you've got there. I may steal it shamelessly.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:55 am
by WouldWork
Haha no shame in stealing ideas... let's call it sharing, rather than stealing.... Which is the reason we're all on the forum. Interesting point - when I measured it for you today, I had my 6 yr old son sit on it. There really is room there for a lil one.

I re-resined some bits on the inside today, hopefully on wednesday I'll give the inside a final sanding. Then I'll paint the rubrails and go over the top with the clear stuff. That will conclude everything! Your build is pushing me, you're catching up to me... I can't let you beat me since I started 4 years ago. Haha

Take care

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:09 am
by WouldWork
Hi guys,

She's done! Well, I am still waiting on the sail and I will be putting a decal on each side with the name - August Dawn. I'm so excited to hit the lake.

So I guess this is my last update here, thanks for all the advice and encouragement over the last 4 years.


Image


I'll start a thread in 'finished boats' with a bunch of pics, even though she's not yet been wet - that's ok to do? I'll update that thread with plenty of pics once she hits the water.

Thanks again, take care all

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:54 am
by Jeff
Cam, disregard my earlier request for photos!! I will wait until you add them!! Jeff

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:07 am
by WouldWork
Jeff I'll get it out of that temp carport it's in and take a bunch more pics. I think it'll look much better on or around the lake as well. My friend is marking out and starting the sail tomorrow so it won't be long til I have some action pics. If there's to be delays in the sail making I'll take it to the lake anyway, make sure it floats, paddle it round and get heaps of pics. Let me know if you'd rather emailed pics for higher resolution and I'll start sending them through.

Thanks

Cam.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:01 am
by Jeff
Cam, no worries, I can wait!! Thank you, Jeff

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:10 am
by ks8
Beautiful tarp! :D :lol:

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:18 am
by WouldWork
Took me ages to get the right shot KS8!! Haha. Check in finished boats section, there's some more.

Re: WouldWork's V12, Sailing version

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:21 am
by ks8
The new *finished boat* link is here. 8)