If I'm seeing the product right, it is available with 18 oz on both sides already finished. More expensive for sure but may save a lot of work. How much finishing on the edges would be required with the 18 oz
already laid on the Nidacore?
Benny & Brent xf20 build
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Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
If you are running the core all the way to the sides there is not really any edge to be finished. A single 4x8 sheet will not cover your whole deck so you will have to butt sheet together. Because of that I would buy the unfinished sheets for the deck.
Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
One layer of 12 oz. each side is sufficient for the frames and deck but for the exposed side of the sole and deck, use 2 layers.
Are you also replacing the stringers and floor frames? And/or the transom? Do not use Nidacore for those parts.
Let me know exactly what you replace and I will help.
Are you also replacing the stringers and floor frames? And/or the transom? Do not use Nidacore for those parts.
Let me know exactly what you replace and I will help.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
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Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
Intentions are to repaint the outside above the waterline, another coat or 2 of graphite below the waterline (it has held up great), replace the sole and casting decks with less casting deck surface and more cockpit sole using Nidacore. Don't need to redo any frames/stringers but I probably should have put 4 stringers in on the initial build instead of going by the plans and since she was originally built without a tunnel, I have thought of retrofitting the tunnel if it would be practical. It has 6 in wide gunnels now but they are whitewood and didn't hold up well. I may or may not put those back in (undecided). My main question is , how much cockpit space can it have without compromising frame requirements. Looking back at the plans, the C/C1 frame is the only one that can be altered.
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Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
Okay, I have ripped out my decks and sole and considering nidacore thickness to use. I'm also following the thread bklake started on nidacore and seeing differing opinions on glass requirements. Jacques posted
earlier in this thread to use 1 layer of 12 oz on the bottom and 2 layers on the top. Seems 1 " thick nidacore is the minimum (no problem), I plan to use 2" or more to raise the sole. Frames and stringers don't need
any work and keeping same deck configuration. Using Jacques recommendation, what is the max span for my under floor frames and cleats?
earlier in this thread to use 1 layer of 12 oz on the bottom and 2 layers on the top. Seems 1 " thick nidacore is the minimum (no problem), I plan to use 2" or more to raise the sole. Frames and stringers don't need
any work and keeping same deck configuration. Using Jacques recommendation, what is the max span for my under floor frames and cleats?
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Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
I built with Plascore, not Nidacore and PP, not carboncore.
The core bottom is in tension.
Noone likes to give span 'ratings' per se because the amount of deflection you tolerate is often preference. Unless we are talking about failure...
The layup for these cores is resin rich and a single layer of 12 oz is terribly light and could delam from dropping a metal lighter. Why is it resin rich? Because it has a layer of veil or csm and that layer stays pretty dry. If you don't wet it well; the laminate above will bond poorly to it. Test it and see. I found that the veil had a wetout rate of about one ounce per square foot or up to 9 oz per yard. It is tricky because the honeycombs are dimples and they quickly suck resins. Use a 9" roller and work whippin fast to wet it. I tested no wetting and didn't like it. Using a vacuum version core would be better, but I botched on this bit.
I don't know how two inch will respond. But I would say a 2" core with two layers of 12 oz each side will do a nice job on up to two foot spans. Because the layup is resin rich, I would be leery of going too light and cracking the bottom under a large man's foot or say a large man holding a 100 pound fish up. If you use a one inch core, I'd step it to two layers of 17 oz per side as capeman suggests.
But, really, do some testing with offcuts to be sure. I have no experience with carbon core or how it will behave differentyly.
I have a one inch plascore cockpit with two layers of say 21 ounce or so triax each side spanning 53" by 88". It sags a bit in the middle and I am a little worried and considering adding a tophat to it...or metal since it is already painted. But 53" is a heluva span..
The core bottom is in tension.
Noone likes to give span 'ratings' per se because the amount of deflection you tolerate is often preference. Unless we are talking about failure...
The layup for these cores is resin rich and a single layer of 12 oz is terribly light and could delam from dropping a metal lighter. Why is it resin rich? Because it has a layer of veil or csm and that layer stays pretty dry. If you don't wet it well; the laminate above will bond poorly to it. Test it and see. I found that the veil had a wetout rate of about one ounce per square foot or up to 9 oz per yard. It is tricky because the honeycombs are dimples and they quickly suck resins. Use a 9" roller and work whippin fast to wet it. I tested no wetting and didn't like it. Using a vacuum version core would be better, but I botched on this bit.
I don't know how two inch will respond. But I would say a 2" core with two layers of 12 oz each side will do a nice job on up to two foot spans. Because the layup is resin rich, I would be leery of going too light and cracking the bottom under a large man's foot or say a large man holding a 100 pound fish up. If you use a one inch core, I'd step it to two layers of 17 oz per side as capeman suggests.
But, really, do some testing with offcuts to be sure. I have no experience with carbon core or how it will behave differentyly.
I have a one inch plascore cockpit with two layers of say 21 ounce or so triax each side spanning 53" by 88". It sags a bit in the middle and I am a little worried and considering adding a tophat to it...or metal since it is already painted. But 53" is a heluva span..
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Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
Thanks "fallguy" for the input. I will get some and test it before actual use. I planned on using some composite frame pieces under the decks, so from what your indicating, I would have to make sure to wet everything
enough to keep the cloth and support pieces from pulling away from the board. Sounds like a coat of epoxy and then lay and wet the cloth, working "wet on wet" would be the best procedure.
enough to keep the cloth and support pieces from pulling away from the board. Sounds like a coat of epoxy and then lay and wet the cloth, working "wet on wet" would be the best procedure.
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Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
Not following this at all.Benny Howard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:28 am Thanks "fallguy" for the input. I will get some and test it before actual use. I planned on using some composite frame pieces under the decks, so from what your indicating, I would have to make sure to wet everything
enough to keep the cloth and support pieces from pulling away from the board. Sounds like a coat of epoxy and then lay and wet the cloth, working "wet on wet" would be the best procedure.
The decks must be laminated on the bottom. Cured overnite, flipped over and bonded to the hull with thickened epoxy. No 'under' side work is wet on wet. It can be done wet on 'green' where the epoxy on the bottom is not fully cured to allow for deck crown, but then you also only wetout one side, flip and bond it, and glass the upside after the bottom has had a day or two to cure. The bottom side of the plastic sole is laminated on a table....
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Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
I understand, didn't mean to create the confusion. Laminate the bottom side first and then laminate the composite forms to the bottom (if extra stiffness needed between frames) , lay the sole in then laminate and
tab it on the edges. Frames and cleats are already in place for the sole and decks.
tab it on the edges. Frames and cleats are already in place for the sole and decks.
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Re: Benny & Brent xf20 build
Just making sure you get it.
The sole is bedded in thickened epoxy and allowed to cure. Then next day begin again.
This is a no holes sole, ftmp.
Any attachment of deck components is done on the top on epoxied, not painted surfaces.
You would not, for example, drive a screw down through it to attach a cleat to the frames under.
All points of clarity.
The sole is bedded in thickened epoxy and allowed to cure. Then next day begin again.
This is a no holes sole, ftmp.
Any attachment of deck components is done on the top on epoxied, not painted surfaces.
You would not, for example, drive a screw down through it to attach a cleat to the frames under.
All points of clarity.
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