Wouter's PH18 Namibia

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tobolamr
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by tobolamr »

BassMunn built in South Africa. His build thread is here:

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17806

Maybe some of the suppliers could also help you out? I noticed you mentioned you are still checking out glass/resin suppliers.

I hope this helps!

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antoniekruger
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by antoniekruger »

Hi Wouter, CT, goodness that's far to order. The chaps from AMT are starts. I buy my resins and cloth from them as well. I build experimental drones as another part time and these guys are extremely knowledgeable. I've had multiple conversations with Brian and he was helpful, indeed.
I use SP106 for the bulk of the build so far and stumbled onto a special in their shop today and took another 20kg.
Build on bud, I hope to be able to visit you when we get a job in Angola with the new oil expansions.
When you're ever down this side, youre welcome to visit and swop out. I'm 10 minutes from the airport.
Antonie
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Wouter
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by Wouter »

Hi Antonie,

Yes, it's a bit of a mission to get stuff here. But I'll persevere. :D

I do have a question for you on the fairing compound you used, was it AMT's Fair 600..? I'm about to place my order and have no idea of how much I'll need. Would you be able to help with any sort of estimate..? :doh:

Regards

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antoniekruger
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by antoniekruger »

Hi,
Yip, I use the S-FAIR 600. I bought 5l part A and 5l part B. My pots are around 75% used on the outside of the boat. I'll have to get another 2l of each to finish fairing the inside bits. I would think the (5l A+5l B) pots would be enough for the PH18. A great help is using peel ply. It is a fabric that is similar to the olden days pants pocket material - a nylon/silky cloth. There are many benefits in using this. If your not working wet on wet, this will help ensure a good secondary bond since you peel the blush off with the peel ply. If you use it on a final layer it reduces the need for fairing a lot and preps the surface for fairing/paint ect. Some of the guys use sheets of plastic as peel ply on final surfaces - they call it poor man's peel ply - It does not get rid of the blush, though.
You can reduce the need for fairing quite a bit by using some form of peel ply. If your hull is fair before your layup(Jacques mentions this in his building notes - get it as smooth and true to shape as possible) and your layup is neat and you use some sort of peel ply, your need for fairing will be hugely reduced.
Something else to watch for is blush - it is the waxy residue that forms on the epoxy when it is curing. This is one of the components of the hardener. You need to get this off before you put another layer down. You wipe it with acetone and sand the surface as a key prep.

Have a look at how the other guys fair. Some use resin with micro balloons - its a red compound that is painted on. I like this since it seem to give a better secondary bond.
I hope this helps,
Antonie
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antoniekruger
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by antoniekruger »

Hi Wouter, my apologies if I'm covering ground that have already been discussed. I was just doing a small layup and thought that I should share with you the little guys that makes a huge difference - seeing youre about to order, keep these in mind. AMT stocks these.
1. They sell a little nylon roller with a wire handle - it has thread on it like a screw. This is not to apply the epoxy. Once your placed the cloth and wet it out you roll it with this little guy. It squeezes the epoxy trapped under the cloth out and helps to secure a good contact between the cloth and wood/bottom layer. They are a must and dirt cheap. You get very fancy ones, but I find that these ones work great and clean well.
2. AMT has a selection of squeegees. They sell a little orange one that is the size of a bank card. Also dirt cheap. You use this to spread epoxy and to collect excess after rolling. I seldom use a brush to apply epoxy. Between my squeegee and roller all is good.
3. You'll see many of the guys have dispensing pumps on their epoxy bottles. Two squeezes resin and one squeeze hardener....or something like that. I could not find and since every epoxy has its own mix ratio, I use a scale. Get a decent electronic scale. AMT sells a good scale for around ZAR900. If you screw up you mix ratio's it will lead to the epoxy not curing as expected and can you trust that portion to be structurally sound? Put it in a plastic bag before starting to use.
4. The stuff you'll mix with the epoxy is called cotton flocks. That is our version of the wood flour the other guys use to make the glue and fillers. It is a white flocky substance(powder) and works very well for fillets, glues and fillers. I'm on my second 1kg bag.
5. Neoprene gloves. AMT sells boxes of these(like a tissue box). I think 50 sets per box. Also well prices. This is essential.
6. The last one I can think of now is the cleaner. Many guys use acetone, witch is great for cleaning off splats and blush, BUT Evan from AMT introduced me to a water soluble cleaner after buying acetone from him for a year. I is a blue liquid that I use to clean all my equipment. IT IS BRILLIANT. I surpasses acetone by far for this purpose. The code is G220.
Hope this helps.
Antonie
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Wouter
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by Wouter »

Hi Antonie,

Thanx a million for all the tips! That's why these forums are so great!

Think I'll spend the next few days getting a decent list of materials together before I place the order.

On the cotton Flock, what is the mix ratio to resin for the fillets? I'm also getting fumed silica, and as I understand the cotton Flocks and silica go 2:1 but i'm not sure to what factor of resin? Suppose it will be determined by the consistency or thickness of the fillet required. How much cotton flock/silica would you recommend I order? Was thinking around the 3and1 1/5 kg range. Not sure if it's too much..? With transport and import cost I'd like to rather get two much then to little. Not keen on importing small amounts later.

I'm definately planning on using peel ply as well, seems like it is well worth the extra expenditure.

All your help is much appreciated!

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antoniekruger
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by antoniekruger »

Hi Wouter,

I've never used the fumed silica, to be honest. I would estimate that 3kg of cotton flocks would be ample. I'll have to check it out.
Have a look at the technical help tab on the Bateau website. There are a whole lot of tutorials and videos on what need to be done and how to do it. The glue mix(for your transom for example) is different than the fillet mix as peanut butter from tomato sauce.....I had a whole lecture from some of old hands on the consistency of the various glue mixes. I'm sure some of them will add some wisdom here as well.
At the end of the day the fillet needs to fill the corner and give enough shape to the outside to lay your tape on without leaving voids. You will be amazed how strong the fillets become.
The glue mix is exactly that - the epoxy is too runny on its own, and it should be thickened up enough to be applied as a glue. The same consistency as 'cold wood glue'.
I would suggest you glue some scraps and get a feel for the stuff before you glue the transom and clamping board.
With your temperatures up there, be wary of large batches - once the mix heats up it will exotherm. This is when the chemical reaction speeds up, releases heat generated and solidifies the pot of epoxy. SP106 have been good to me, but I've had fillet mix going smokey after trying to do a long fillet.
Check out the tutorials - there are good info there. - http://bateau2.com/
Cheers, Antonie
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Wouter
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by Wouter »

Hi Guys,

I'm having difficulties in getting any form of adequate wood for the transom clamp. So I've come up with an idea to do the transom from 12mm laminated marine ply.

I thought of doing two layers across the whole transom, giving me a thickness of 24mm all the way across. And making slits for the outer stringers to fit into the inside board/panel. Then fitting an extra 12mm piece in between the inner stringers giving me a thickness of 36mm in the OB compartment, with the inside stringers fitting alongside the 3rd piece of 12mm ply.

Any comments, feedback on the design aspect..? :help:

Then, when laminating the boards together, are there any advantages/disadvantages of adding fiberglass in between the layers?

I hope this drawing makes it a bit clearer.
[img]
http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... nation.JPG [/img]

Regards,

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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by Cracker Larry »

Image
Then, when laminating the boards together, are there any advantages/disadvantages of adding fiberglass in between the layers?

None, no need for that. Just glue them up.
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Re: Wouter's PH18 Namibia

Post by jacquesmm »

Plywood is a fine substitute.
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