Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:22 pm**

I have had this old 28 Bertram sitting around for 6 years. I started researching conversion and ended up on this site due to Daytrip's topic. I am planning a conversion to an express design with a hard top without a tower. My original intent was to convert to outboards but I am having second thoughts. My current boat is a True World Marine 28. It has a center mounted Yanmar 315 hp jackshaft to an outdrive. The boat previous to the TWM was the same setup. This is a great way to rig a boat. The economy is incredible at only 9 gph at 25 kts. I have not been able to find any post of a Bertram conversion to a single screw. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. The decision time will not be for a couple of months as the demolition will take place in the evenings and weekends. I will try to keep a photo library as we go along.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:44 pm**

Joel is out of town and I will start the reply

From a design point of view, the weight distribution should be fine with a jackshaft engine assuming this will be an I/O.
There should be no problem to run the boat as a single screw.
I prefer twins because the props are protected.
I can give specs for the engine girders. We can also spec the fiberglass work on the transom. To take the thrust of the outdrive, we'll need to reinforce that transom. How about starting with some pictures once the demolition is done? That way we'll see exactly what you have.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:36 pm**

Hey Mbiggerstaff, I am doing mine as an express as well. I will post a cadd drawing of the concept elevation. Take a look at the post of the 258 mako project that I was doing.I thought of doing something like you are talking about with my old 28. I was looking at the 450 cummins in an inboard config. It was more cash then I was willing to put into it jack shafts are cool.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:37 pm**

I have a Yanmar 6lp 370 hp that I can get at a reasonable price. My TWM has a 315 hp 6lp. I cruse at 25 knots and max out at 30. I know the Bert will be heaver and have more surface area in the water. Not sure 370 hp would be enough. Look forward to the cadds. Have added pix to album in gallery on this site, still trying to get them into this post. Working on Mac so instructions in read this first don't fit.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:01 am**

Couple thoughts. Let me know what you think

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:03 am**

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:40 am**

Got the pix thing figured out. Daytrip, thanks for the drawings. That is what I had in mind. Will get the top off and then decide on windows. Was hoping to keep front glass in some fashion to keep boat character and have side glass cut to express style. I have read that the split glass windshield leaked a LOT. Never had mine in the water so don't know. Got the boat safely to greenville , nc and got it cleaned up. Looks like a new boat.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:42 am**

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:50 am**

Cool! I had a 28 before this one and no issues with window leaks. That one was a 73 so not sure I would let that woorry me. I am leveling the floor to one level on mine and based on that the floor hieght at the v-berth is level with the v berth seating/couch. with that in mind the windshield is below your eye level. i still like that idea as well but my family thinks it looks to old which means classic in my mind! If you have any adjustments or thoughts let me know. I can get them incorporated for looks. Drawings should be "scaled" or close anyways.

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:44 am**

Got the cabin torn out and a trailer loaded for a trip to the dump later in the week. There sure was a lot of heavy plywood used back in the 70's.

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:48 am**

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:18 am**

Looks familiar! I had 900 lbs not counting decks and hatches. I thought it would be more. Are you leaving the engine deck as is or trying to level with cockpit?

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:01 am**

My plan is to lower the sole to the top of the old exaust ports, prob about 4 inches and level the floor to that height. If I read your post correctly that is about what you calculated. I want to get as much cockpit depth as possible. If I go with the single diesel I will have to raise the sole to accommodate that in the front part of the boat. That will be a good thing as the windshield is too low to be useful now and need to be raised. How hard was the glass to get out? How did you manage to get the old floor out where it attached to the hull on the sides? These are my projects for the week, work permitting.

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:30 pm**

The glass was not hard if you are not trying to save the frame. There are just a series of screws in the channels that attach it. I had to use a sawzal to cut some of the screws loose. You will be shocked at how easy the deck flange comes away from the hull sides. Again the sawzal with a long blade run between the side and the flange. In most areas a little prying and it popped loose. Consider saving the flange and the section that runs horizontal to use as a new mount surface for the new sole. This allows you to glass that top and bottom then glass the floor to that. This also makes an integral gutter along the edge.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:12 pm**

I am trying to save the glass frame for reuse maybe. 2 afternoons and I finally have all the screws out. What a pain. Ended up using a Dremmel to cut the heads off the screws along the front windshield. Have all screws removed so old roof is ready to lift off. Thinking I will use jacks to lift it up as I cut old sealant along glass. Maybe nothing will break. Any thoughts on the 370 hp option and performance?

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:45 am**

With an I/O I think it will be good. My guess based on the boat that OMC Did back in the day with 200 hp outboards you should get 45 mph out of it. Not sure how docking would be. My guess is no big deal. What do you do with the fuel?

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:24 pm**

Daytrip, you were right about the sole edging coming out easy. I was amazed. Had to cut it in 2 pieces to get it out but I took your advice and set it aside. I have had two boats with a single diesel/outdrive combo. The first was a Tides. It had a Bravo outdrive with a single prop. It was a pain to dock. It had sadle tanks. Had to manually switch from one to the other to keep the load even. The current True World has a yanmar duo prop. It is easy to maneuver in tight quarters. Duo prop is definitely the way to go. The TWM has a "U" shape tank to allow for the jack shaft. The fuel sits it the belly like the old Bertram tank. The Tankage is 180 gallons which is enough for 2 easy trip for me in NC. Tank custom made somewhere in Florida. Will get name of supplier if I go that way. Will post some pix tomorrow.

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:09 am**

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:10 am**

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:32 am**

Looks great! Those engine stringer sisters are a real pain to get out! Grinder to cut bolts off was my trick. It is unreal how easy that flange comes out. Makes the case for epoxy.

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:14 am**

Mbiggerstaff wrote:Daytrip, you were right about the sole edging coming out easy. I was amazed.

That is what we call the secondary bond problem in polyester boats. It doesn't exist with epoxy.
In some cases, you can lift the tabbing from the hull with a chisel and it peels off.

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:57 pm**

Does anyone out there have any CADs for the 28 Beetram. Would like to do some modeling.

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:08 pm**

I have an autoCad file of the profile that was made from a PDF that I scaled. Closes I can come up with. Never mapped the plan view

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:17 am**

Could I get a copy. It will be a place to start.

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:57 am**

Sure. What is your email?

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:46 pm**

mbiggerstaff@mac.com. Thanks. Mike

Posted: **Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:02 pm**

Hey Mike,

Just sent you the file. Sorry it took so long.

Posted: **Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:28 pm**

Thanks for the file. Could not open it but sent it to Paul who is helping with project. His son in marine engineering major. Got glass out today with frames. Nothing broken. Top is loose and ready to remove. Need a couple of strong young backs to get it off. Thinking of using it someway as a mold for my new hardtop. Lots of phone calls the past couple of days concerning power package. Looks like the yanmar 370 hp to new volvo penta outdrive made for the D6. Expected cruise 25-26 kts with top end of 32. Would like to go with a Konrad drive but they want 30k.

Posted: **Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:32 am**

Posted: **Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:44 am**

check rib.net for a used Konrad drive, http://www.rib.net/forum/f47/konrad-520 ... 60838.html. They were standard on military ribs and they come up for sale occasionally. Not sure if that's what you are looking for. This one needs some other parts. There are also a couple RIB refurb guys in southern CA you might get in touch with.

Jason

Posted: **Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:54 am**

Thanks for the info. This one is 520. I am looking for a duo prop edition either a 660 or 680.

Posted: **Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:44 pm**

Wow, how did you get the bolts loose in those bridge posts? I figured the sawsall was going to take that off on mine

Not sure if you saw the hardtop I built for my buddy's boat but I would just build a temp mold or use the top skin of that top, recore it and glass the hatch opening closed. I had thoughts of that . Saves fairing but lots of demo

Posted: **Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:37 am**

The bolts in the bridge post fortunately rung off when I put a ratchet on them! To get the top loose, I used a bottle jack and a 4 x 4 cut to length. A little pressure and the 5200 gave way. I did that in all 4 corners of the top and raised it up a couple of inches to allow the screws on the windows to clear their holes.

Posted: **Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:01 am**

Very good. This is a link to the hardtop biuld. If you were local I would give you the mold. I am about to cut it up.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=58215

Posted: **Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:01 am**

Very good. This is a link to the hardtop biuld. If you were local I would give you the mold. I am about to cut it up.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=58215

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:23 am**

I wish I was local as well. Hate to see the mold go. What is the "mica" that you used? Is there a source on this site that goes through the mold building process step by step?

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:34 pm**

Hey mike, the mica is just from a supply house the sells Formica brand . It is countertop 5'x12' gloss black. The dark color helps you see air in the lay up. I don't think there is anything that shows it but it is really straight forward. I am building one for my floor panels that will have less camber. I can take some photos for you. If you want me to talk thru it I would be happy to. I would build you a top if you wanted to make a road trip.

let me clarify, you do all the fairing

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:26 pm**

Thanks Jim. It makes more sense now. It's the little things in this site that are so great. I would love to see pix as you proceed. Paul and I are thinking about flipping the hull to repair the bottom (LOTS of blisters/holes in gel coat) in order to avoid sanding patching like Michaelangelo did. Several vids on YouTube. Any personal experience?

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:51 pm**

Any personal experience?

I worked in a yacht yard for a couple of years and half of our labor force at the time was spent repairing hull blisters in older boats. Grind them out, let them dry really good, fill with epoxy filler and coat the entire hull with epoxy to seal it. The gel coatings of that time period were awful for water absorption and hull blisters if a boat lived in the water.

Posted: **Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:40 am**

Larry is exactly right. On My last 28 I had the bottom paint ground off and there were lots of small blisters that I filled with epoxy then barrier coated the entire bottom with epoxy. Since then I have done it several times as have others on this site. On the 17 mako I recently finished I took the paint and gel coat off. On that one I added a new layer of glass but that was because the bottom was cracked in a couple spots. No need to do that on the Bertram. Once it was cleaned up I used epoxy with graphite. Joel sells that in the store here.

Flipping the hull makes things soooo much easier. I am going to do that with the Bertram as well. I am thinking of having the bottom soda blasted to remove the paint vs grinding. Cost about 1200 in our area. That's the only thing giving me pause. The bottom comes off really easy with a grinder and 36 grit disk but it is work. I am going to keep mine on a lift so the epoxy and graphite in the areas that will contact the lift, trailer and bottom then awlgrip everywhere else

If you have a lot of blisters and want the bottom fair then you will have to fill the blisters. My guess is cabosil would be the right filler ( mixed in the resign to a peanut butter consistency. Joel or Larry could confirm. Don't over fill cause it it tough to sand. Once you are close to level you could do a fairing coat with glass bubbles in epoxy. Then faired. It depends how perfect you care about the bottom being. In my case, if it is anti fouling paint going over it then I really don't care how fair it is, within reason. This is one of those opinion things and Joel or Larry would be more the authority. Absent that you could get a lot of thoughts

Posted: **Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:43 pm**

I had the bottom soda blasted before I brought it back to Greenville. It was about the same here. The hull is big and heavy. Any ideas on how to go about flipping it. I want to get the bottom finished after Christmas. It will be at its lightest point then. Has anyone ever seen a boat with a Hamilton Jet in it? Considering that as an option vs outdrive.

Posted: **Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:06 am**

I live nearby. If you need a hand, just holler. You can PM me through this site.

Posted: **Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:53 am**

Hey Mike,

I was thinking of getting 2xs and building three trusses from port to starboard that would support the hull sides and tie to the stringers. Then roll it on the ground using equipment or chain falls to trees. Not real sure?? Did you get the hardtop off? Any photos?

I am taking off the next couple weeks so hope to get some good work done. Might build floor sections.

Posted: **Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:47 am**

After seeing how easy it is to build a hardtop mold from your earlier post, i decided to sacrifice the hardtop. I am going to cut it up and take it off in pieces today. Pix to follow. I found a steel A frame that I can use to flip mine. I will have to make an A frame for the front out of wood to attach to the bow to allow rotation and stabilization. After the flip, it is going back on the trailer and back to my house upside-down While it is off the trailer, I am going to run to a scale and weigh the trailer/truck combo then weigh it again on the way home with the hull on it. That will give us an empty hull weight to go on.

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:32 pm**

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:33 pm**

Filename:

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:34 pm**

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:35 pm**

Posted: **Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:40 pm**

Here is the topless Bertram. I love the lines. It is a great looking boat. I make a mock up of the engine and set it in to see what the cabin deck height will be. The plan is to move the engine forward to where it is now, prob another 12-18". She is ready to flip.

Posted: **Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:23 am**

classic lines, Im really starting to like this idea for my next project

Posted: **Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:56 pm**

Made another dump run today. 840 lbs. Total so far is 2100 lbs

Posted: **Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:19 pm**

Looking good. I took the hardtop off as well. Took it to the dump and it was 450lbs alone! Need to update my thread. When are you going to roll it over.

Posted: **Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:25 pm**

Will roll first of next week, weather permitting. Getting A frame for front of boat built and set up, waiting for heavy duty straps and D rings from amazon. Plan on using GoPro to document......good or bad. Please post some pix of yours.

Posted: **Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:07 am**

Have you figured out exactly how to flip it? I was catching up on this thread, and was reminded of the "rotisserie" method:
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 7&start=70

I first saw it here:
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... start=2270

The rod at the stern will have to be a lot stouter than what these guys were using, due to the size and weight of the Bertram, but the method itself appears to be pretty simple.

I'm working Monday through Wednesday so I know I'll be in town. Then I'm off Thursday through Sunday so I should be able to help, but if you need those winches before then, you've got my number.

Merry Christmas

Posted: **Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:10 am**

I considered the rotisserie method but decided against it. The transom is curved and very thin. I do not think it would support the weight. Go to youtube and search "rolling over 29 ft hull". That is how I am going to do it.

Posted: **Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:34 am**

Nothing to it is it

Posted: **Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:27 pm**

shine wrote:classic lines, Im really starting to like this idea for my next project

There is one on craigslist in homestead for 300 bucks! Good place to start

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/4751922521.html

Posted: **Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:22 pm**

Better hurry Shine. I'm tempted. I got the engine already.

Posted: **Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:07 am**

I have the trailer ready to roll if you are a go Joel...I am just saying

Posted: **Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:37 am**

Im pretty sure the seacraft will be gone next week, so i will be in boat/project hunting mode

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:10 am**

Has she rolled over yet?

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:39 am**

It has rained the past 3 days. My friends A frame was too small.. Having to rethink everything.

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:50 pm**

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:53 pm**

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:54 pm**

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:57 pm**

Got the rear frame assembled today. Eye bolt is 1". Have one for bow as well. Plan is to rotate it on it long axis. Thoughts?

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:02 pm**

Does it not have a bow eye already? I believe I'd use the existing one.

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:07 pm**

You will have a lot of force on the glass at the bolt hole. My guess is 2000 lbs. should be okay.

In the bow there is a limber hole in the stringer that they lift the hull from the mold. I think the strength is there. Make sure hardware will hold at least 3000 lbs. . I would have some control of the rotation in the back. Maybe small chain falls on each corner?

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:21 pm**

Dealers use the bow and two stern eyes to lift boats from the transport trailers, then suspend them while backing and adjusting the "regular" trailer underneath them. I've been told that that is why the eyes are there.

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:05 pm**

Thanks guys. There is not an eye bolt in the bow now. I saw the ring glassed into the bow when I was doing demo up there so I know what yow are talking about Daytrip. I have another 1" eye bolt that I will use up there. I have a 5/8 stainless "U" bow bolt that I was going to use later. My thought is to use the one inch eye so that the boat will rotate around it. Same on the transom. I hope the 4 x 4s bolted through the old exhaust ports will take all the stress and not the glass around the eye bolt. Agree that control in the roll is critical. It is a BIG hull. Keep the ideas coming.

Posted: **Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:55 am**

shouldn't be a problem , just watch out when turning over where the most weight is above or below the water line.
She will roll fast when she gets to that point.

Those extra control lines on the transom helped me slow the roll when i got to the tipping point .

Posted: **Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:03 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:03 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:07 pm**

Got front built today. Cemented post in just to be sure. Different design, will see which one works best . The single post was definitely easier to build. Lifted transom off trailer. Came up a foot like it was nothing. Nothing gave at all. Feeling good about a roll tomorrow or Saturday! Thanks Topwater. You made it look easy.

Posted: **Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:38 pm**

Awesome! Can't wait to see the successful roll. Are you setting it on the ground or back on the trailer?

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:40 pm**

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:50 pm**

Well here it is! Victor and Paul came over and we had her bottom up in no time. Very controlled, no dramatics at all. Lifted it up with chain hoist at each end. Attached ropes to cleats on port and starboard . One rope to do the flipping and the other to control the roll once she hit vertical. Ends of ropes attached to tow hooks on two trucks. One slowly backed up starting the roll while the other slowly rolled forward keeping tension on the control rope. Victor slowly raised it higher until the gunnel cleared and over she went!

Now the work begins

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:58 pm**

Well done

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:38 am**

Nice job

Went alot easier than you thought didn't it .

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:13 am**

Looks great! Nice job. How is she sitting on the trailer support wise? That will make it 100 times easier to work on. Thanks for paving the way. Might want some additional details so I can do mine.

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:41 am**

Nothing to it

All three of us kept a close eye on every step, and if one of us didn't like something, we stopped and changed it. I'm eager to see the video that Mike took.

The boat is still suspended in the last pic. Plans are to get some heavy timbers to lay across the trailer bunks and set the boat on them. It'll take around 9-10" to clear the raised portion of the gunnels (the white part above the center axle) and the fenders.

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:09 pm**

I would like to see the video as well. How much stuff fell out?

Great work.

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:39 pm**

http://youtu.be/w0D9SUQWq-k

Here is the link to the video(I think). The boat is now on the trailer. Used a pair of two 4 x 6s on front and back resting on bunks to support the boat. Rained all day with more tomorrow. After sanding, what will be best to use for patching blister holes?

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:42 pm**

Mbiggerstaff wrote:http://youtu.be/w0D9SUQWq-k

Here is the link to the video(I think). The boat is now on the trailer. Used a pair of two 4 x 6s on front and back resting on bunks to support the boat. Rained all day with more tomorrow. After sanding, what will be best to use for patching blister holes?

Not bad for amateurs

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:16 pm**

Great video. What lumber sizes did you use?

I would personally use the marine epoxy that Joel sells here and do the first fill with cabosil mixed in to make a putty. Don't over fill! Then for the next/final fill I would mix the epoxy with phenolic bubbles. Cabosil is hard as nails and bubbles are easier to fair. Not sure how much fairing you have done but I have come to accept that it will take three fills/sandings. The more you try to bulk on the harder the sanding. I mix the epoxy and filler to a consistency between ketsup and peanut butter. I like using a 8 inch drywall knife to spread it tight and level. Personally I would not go to crazy over the bottom and way less then described if you are bottom painting. If you are finish painting then it needs yo be close. I have used epoxy and graphite on my boats that are not getting bottom paint and it works well.

Joel May have other recommendations.

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:23 pm**

For the bow, I used treated 4 x6 timbers for the uprights. The header is 2 x 12 doubled up. The braces are 2x6 attached to 4x4 poles 2 feet in the ground and then cemented. All attachments are 5/8 galvanized rods cut to length with washers on both sides.

For the stern, the uprights of the A are treated 4 x 4 and the headers are again 2 x 12s. 3/4 plywood used to secure top of A and 2 x 8s to secure bottom. supports for header are 2 x 4s. Again everything bolted, not nailed.

The bow upright were much easier to build and seemed stronger, Should have extended the braces on the sided all the way to the header but all was well.

Used 3 ton chain hoist in front and 5 ton in back(overkill).

The uprights were 12 foot length to start. The bow ones are in the ground 18" Will have to take the header off to get the boat out from between the two as it is too high when on trailer.

If you want detailed pix of anything, can easily provide.

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:36 pm**

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:38 pm**

Had a break in the rain late this afternoon and started sanding. Daytrip what are you doing with your old shaft ports? if you removed them can you send pix please.

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:24 pm**

I am going to cut them out but have Minot yet. I will cut them flush with the hull then taper glass from the inside. On the under side I will screw a piece of malamine or a piece of plywood with parchment or wax paper on it so the glass won't stick. I will go back about 6 inches around the perimeter. Once dry remove the plywood and grind the interface between patch acne hull and fill with cabosil or milled fiber and epoxy.

Not sure if that is what you were after?

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:59 pm**

Yes. Since mine is bottom up, could I do the same from the bottom. Which would be stronger as they are in high stress area of boat.

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:11 pm**

Really no difference strength wise. Big differnce is that you could have humps on the bottom if you do it from that side. if you grind it back then make your layers a little bigger each time you can do it. I might only to three on the bottom then do a few on the inside when you flip it back over. That would actually be better from a bonding perspective as is in attached to more surface area.

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:58 am**

That bottom looks exactly like my last 28 did. I was not overly crazy fixing that one and it never created any issues. Looking at the big flat area I would be tempted to get the gel coat off and lay a skin of biax over it all. Then fix all the holes from the inside where being fair does not matter. Joel would be the authority there.

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:31 am**

if you grind it back then make your layers a little bigger each time you can do it. I might only to three on the bottom then do a few on the inside when you flip it back over. That would actually be better from a bonding perspective as is in attached to more surface area..

That is definitely how I would do it. A thin layer beveled flush on the outside (while you have it upside down) then the "real" patch on the inside. Grind back lay in layers and then overlap the last

For filling the blisters and little holes, i would use a mix of silica and milled fibers. For filling big holes and would use chopped glass and milled fibers

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:30 pm**

All right. Just to make sure I understand, I should start at the transom and remove all the gelcoat at least up to the last of the holes on the bottom. After that is done fill any defects in the fiberglass and sand again. Lay the biax and finish from there.

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:48 pm**

I think Joel was agreeing with the topic of how to fix the holes in the hull. The idea of adding a layer of glass to the entire surface becomes more a question of is it easier to do that for the blisters. My thought would be do a quick fill of the blisters, let it kick to the point that it was still plyable, then do the glass over that. I think the fAiring of the new glassed surface vs all those little repairs would be easier and turn out nicer. I would not do the entire bottom that way but just that center area up to the forward engine bulkhead area and out to the lifting strake

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:04 pm**

Sorry I wasn't too clear

i would not cover the whole bottom with glass. Only in the areas where you have larger holes, would I bevel back then glass over (so the glass is more or less flush with bottom), then you just take a swipe of fairing to make it smooth.

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:59 pm**

I am breathing a sigh of relief! Although it comes off, I was not looking forward to taking it all off. Worked a little more today and found that the gel coat is much thinner up front and it will be easier to repair with removing most of the gel coat. Was thinking of using a dremmel to hit the blister areas to make sure they are clean prior to patching. Overkill? It is going to be COLD her the next couple of days and I have a booth at the raleigh boat show this weekend (I make lures in my spare time) so things will slow down until next week.

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:56 pm**

I plan on being at the fishing expo this weekend, what is the name of your lure company, is it Crystal Coast?

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:15 pm**

Yes. Crystal Coast Lures. Stop by and visit

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:39 pm**

I sure will, look forward to it.

Posted: **Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:54 pm**

Posted: **Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:56 pm**

Got a break at work and got out early enough to sand for a couple of hours. going to have to take it off the trailer and put it back on the ground to get the front or risk a broken limb. I cannot imagine doing this on my back

Posted: **Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:44 pm**

Dude, if you are getting rid of gel coat use a 4-1/2 inch grinder with a 36 grit disk. Comes of like butter. Maybe you already are but I see that DA there. If you are doing a big area the 7" is best as it is easier to keep level.

Posted: **Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:12 am**

using a 6"orbital sander. wouldn't exactly say like butter or I would be done by now

Posted: **Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:39 am**

The grinder will cut a lot faster then the orbital sander. Having both in your arsenal will save a lot of time.

Posted: **Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:07 pm**

A grinder would be a must for me on any rebuild project.

I even purchased a 7" makita grinder...... its a dangerous machine

Posted: **Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:37 pm**

I find that grinders turn too fast. I really like the 7" sander/polishers that turn 0-3000. I find for me that 1500 RPM works the best. I use a firm soft pad and 3M green disks. Either 6 0r 8 inch pads and disks. Both have their place. For what you are doing 36 grit will do the trick nicely. They are not cheap but will be worth it on a job the sixe of yours. The glass will burn out the motor over time but a good repair shop can rebuild them 3-4 times before they are totaly shot.
I also have a couple fixed speed-1750 RPM- Portacables that are cheaper and work almost as good.
I am enjoying watching this. Looks like a great project.
Fuzz

Posted: **Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:43 pm**

Thanks guys. I have a 4" and 7" grinder that I have not tried yet but are on the ready. The orbital is working for now. No sanding till next week.

Posted: **Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:20 pm**

A 7" grinder with 24 grit discs will get you in trouble quickly...don't ask how I know

Posted: **Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:19 pm**

Rain, rain, rain

Posted: **Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:40 pm**

Rain, rain, rain

Same here. It's not warm either.

A 7" grinder with 24 grit discs will get you in trouble quickly...don't ask how I know

For sure. I use it to tear stuff out, not to build it back. Aren't many tools that can mess something up, including the operator, as fast as a grinder can

A grinder would be a must for me on any rebuild project.

Yes, me too. For the demolition stages on a rebuild, or stripping gelcoat, nothing beats a grinder. The only thing better is somebody else to drive it

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:09 am**

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:10 am**

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:12 am**

Got the engine home this weekend. Finally got to do some more sanding.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:00 am**

Looking good man. How much filling /fairing you up against? Does the damage extend into the glass or just the gelcoat?

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:14 pm**

Unfortunately into the glass. Planning on trying dremel tool to clean up glass unless you have better idea. Finished first sand today and cut out shaft things. How far back should I grind before I start repairing. Is there a rule of thumb that says a 2" hole requires a 4" patch or something. I plan on trying Interlux watertite epoxy filler to patch holes. Thoughts?

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:32 pm**

I think I remember seeing somewhere that for every 1 unit of thickness you grind back three? Personally I dish it back about an inch and a half and then go back another couple inches for bonding.

I think you are almost going to do a fairing coats in big areas when filling? I would personally get epoxy resin and mix in the fillers. If you are spot filling I would use that 3m filler that uses vinyl-ester resin with cabosil as the filler as it kicks fast and you can coat sand and refill in an hour vs over night. Any ready to use filler is going to cost more then mixing your own, I would guess.

The photo of yours upside down and mine wide open don't come close to showing the size of these things. Big wide boats for sure.

Posted: **Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:35 pm**

Dremel tool worked great. Got one side done in a couple of hours. Glad I did it. There was a lot of loose glass and gelcoat. Had I not done it I would have had blisters in no time. Hope to finish up messy work this weekend and get it inside and start patching.

Posted: **Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:45 pm**

Got a little patching done today. Back on the trailer but could not move it to shop because of all the rain and soggy yards.

Posted: **Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:46 pm**

Posted: **Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:47 pm**

Posted: **Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:48 pm**

Outdrive cutout someday

Posted: **Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:34 pm**

How much filling is done in those last picks?

Posted: **Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:14 pm**

I have about 3/4 of the boat done so far. Only have a couple of hours in the afternoon to work because of the temperature. If it would ever stop raining so Paul's yard would dry out, it will go into his shop where the temperature can be controlled.

Posted: **Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:11 am**

Wow,

That is great. I think I can see the filled side. The filler is green? Great progress. You think the soda blating opened the Blisteres up? Were they even blisters or just voids under the gelcoat? My old one (1972) had a lot of small blisters. This one does not appear to have any (1979). What year is yours?

Posted: **Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:02 pm**

My boat is a 1976. The soda blasting opened up the blisters for sure. I had a combination of blisters and voids in the chopped glass mat under the gelcoat which opened up when I sanded. I used the dremel to score them out and make sure that the edges were clean and secure. The filler is Interlux watertite. It is a light blue when mixed. It has been snowing today so I had to find other things to do. Cut blue insulation foam the size of all the holes and then coated them with two part platinum rubber. They will fit tightly into the holes flush with the hull and glass will be laid over them. I use the platinum rubber in my lure making for the molds. The epoxy does not stick to it. After I roll it over, I will fill from the inside with additional glass.

Posted: **Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:47 pm**

Got you. Another thing that releases easy is parchment paper. Basically a higher temp wax paper you buy at the grocery. Big accomplishment getting that done!

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:07 am**

you are lucky you don't have to do this. I guess bertram got it right by 79.

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:20 am**

I am not sure that I won't have the same issue until it is blasted. Doesn't look like it but who knows

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:47 pm**

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:48 pm**

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:53 pm**

Work has been interfering with boat repair but have managed to get a little done. Got the sides sanded and except for a few small holes ready for primer. Moved it to Paul's yesterday so it is inside now. Started patching bottom holes and have the second coat of faring compound on most of the blister holes.

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:16 pm**

Getting there! What did you wind up using to fair it with? That is a lot of work.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:07 pm**

Still using Interlux watertite. Kind of pricy but works well, has great reviews and I can get it wholesale so cost isn't so bad. Boating show this weekend, trying to sell some lures. No work till next week.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:34 pm**

What are you going to paint bottom with. My plan is to do epoxy and graphite from keel to second chine then alexseal the balance of the hull.

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:05 am**

Interlux VC performance epoxy

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:31 pm**

Interesting stuff. I like it. Maybe my plans have changed! If it buffs to a smooth dull finish I would prefer that. Also like that it is not black.

Posted: **Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:03 am**

Mbiggerstaff wrote:Interlux VC performance epoxy

I am going to be helping my buddy spray his seacraft bottom with that paint. I read/hear good things about it.

Posted: **Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:52 am**

Making progress

Posted: **Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:28 pm**

A ton of blisters - wow. Looks good now though.

Posted: **Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:46 pm**

It has been really cold here in Greenville, NC. We have not been able to get the shop temp up enough to do any additional fiberglass work. Instead have removed old wood and glass from under gunnels, ground to good base, and cut new wood. Ready for installation. The old wood was embedded in something underneath to fill voids and provide strength. Suggestions please. I am sure that something can be mixed with epoxy to make a suitable compound if a specific product is not available for this purpose.

Posted: **Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:37 pm**

I would suggest epoxy mixed with wood flour. Cheap and very strong. 50 lbs of it on mine so far! That stuff they used is like cabosil. Hard and brittle. A chisel breaks it up pretty well. Beats grinding.

Posted: **Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:46 pm**

Mbiggerstaff wrote:It has been really cold here in Greenville, NC.

And going to get colder. Forecast for Thursday is 22 degrees...Thursday night, five degrees

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:01 am**

DAYTRIP wrote:I would suggest epoxy mixed with wood flour. Cheap and very strong. 50 lbs of it on mine so far! That stuff they used is like cabosil. Hard and brittle. A chisel breaks it up pretty well. Beats grinding.

The putty they (and all the other manufacturers) used back then was a polyester with silica and maybe some other fillers, its very brittle and if its too thick it breaks loose with any flexing. A lot of older boats have this putty bonding the deck/liner to the stringers and hull, it pops loose pretty easy.

Epoxy is best choice but there are also Methacrylates now that will "melt" the two pieces together.

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:13 pm**

Wood Flour it is. Picked up 50 lbs today. Weekend looks promising for epoxy.

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:14 am**

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:14 am**

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:15 am**

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:18 am**

Here are some pix of progress. New wood under gunnels and bottom. One more sanding on bottom and then a layer of glass over the aft half to cover all the patches, just for security.

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:37 am**

Looking good

Holler if you need an extra hand 'glassing. (Or even if you don't

)

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:09 am**

that is a good way to re-core the gunnels

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:35 pm**

Looks great! What are you going to do glass down the center in the stern or are you saying just over the patched areas?

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:18 pm**

A 50 inch piece of glass will cover from centerline to lifting rake. One on each side forward to cover patches. Sanded today. Ready to prime once glass is laid and sanded. I have lost count of the number of times I have sanded that bottom. Sad to think I have at least 3 times left!

Posted: **Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:28 pm**

Todays progress. 1708 on each side to cover patches. Will sand and fair tomorrow. Maybe a coat of high build primer if we are really lucky.

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:33 pm**

Looking good! Add material, sand, add material, sand.....vicious cycle

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:34 pm**

Got that right. Got it sanded but had a bad patch of resin. Had to take up a section aft. Ran out of resin so could not replace. Faired the rest. Will sand again and replace bad spot on Tuesday.

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:56 pm**

That is a bummer! Most times if you roll it into the sun it will kick it. Either that or a heat gun. Every now and again I have that happen. I am certain it is because I am distracted and miss something in the ratio. I am using vinylester on the console and had a batch that didn't kick fully. That stuff I swear that if the mek is old it doesn't catalyze right.

You are getting there man.

Posted: **Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:18 am**

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:34 am**

Ready for primer!

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:35 am**

Now that is a good feeling! good job.

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:28 am**

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:29 am**

Sprayed on one coat of Interlux HC. Rolled the second. Faired places that I missed. Sanded again. Rolled another coat on yesterday. Will sand smooth and spray another coat and see what it looks like. Getting real close to paint.

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:20 am**

Awesome! Man I am jealous. You are breathing new life into that puppy. That is so gratifying to see progress in the form of a nice new finish. Good work.

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:48 am**

would be very interested in hearing about the VC spraying vs. rolling and how much paint you have used (coverage). I am going to be helping my buddy spray his 25 seacraft

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:53 pm**

Why did you spray some and roll some? Trouble spraying? Is that primer epoxy based?
I am anxious to see the finish coat as well!

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:13 pm**

I had purchased some high build primer and was planning on using it to finish off the bottom but careful inspection of the instruction specifically said that it should not be used below the waterline. Was planning on using the interlude HC (epoxy sealer/primer) over the high build prior to finish coat. We sprayed the first coat thinned out to make sure that it got down into the pinpoint holes so as not to leave voids or air pockets to trap moisture. The instructions said it could be rolled as a high build primer so that is what we did. I really want the old gelcoat to be sealed so the blisters don't come back. So far i have used 2 gallons and will use part of one more to finish it off. Paul has sprayed the performance VC before and says it sprays nice. I have 2 one gallon units that we plan on using. Planning on 3-4 coats.

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:35 pm**

All you need is a roller for the VC Performance Epoxy. It's great stuff.

I was anal and used a little more than 2 coats in some places.

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:38 pm**

wildbill wrote:All you need is a roller for the VC Performance Epoxy. It's great stuff. I was anal and used a little more than 2 coats in some places.

I used it over the High Build Primer I bought from here.

Posted: **Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:03 am**

My guess/experience is that the high build would not be a problem unless it sat in the water full time. Never hurts to be safe vs sorry though. Looking forward to the finished product. Are you planning on a wet sand or just the as is finish?

Posted: **Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:37 pm**

Not sure yet. Still sanding primer. Will see how it goes and looks

Posted: **Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:05 pm**

Sander the rolled on primer. Looked real good. Sprayed a coat today. Second (really the 5th coat). and final coat of primer tomorrow. May get first coat of performance vc on Saturday. 3 coats of it and she rolls back over.

Posted: **Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:33 am**

Great progress. Looking forward to seeing the final coats. I am trying to upload some pics of my console now.

Posted: **Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:40 pm**

Sprayed first coat of performance VC. Second tomorrow and third on monday.

Posted: **Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:34 pm**

Do you have to wait 24 hrs between coats or are you just doing it that way per your preference?

Posted: **Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:42 pm**

Minimum of 7 (dry enough to walk on) max of 24 without having to sand between coats. This stuff gets really hard fast according to spec sheets. If you wait too long it might not bond. It takes a good couple of hours to spray and then throw in the 45 minute activation time and it is just hard to do 2 coats in a day and still have time for other things. Unfortunately this is not a full time job right now. It takes about 3 quarts to put a coat on. This has been true for the primer whether I rolled or sprayed it and the VC today for anyone's planning purposes.

Posted: **Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:22 pm**

Finished the bottom today!

Posted: **Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:32 pm**

Congrats! Looks good. Will you wet sand or just go with it?

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:32 am**

just go with it

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:27 am**

Primed, wet sanded and reprimed times 2. Ready to roll her back over. I climbed on top of her to put the plastic on prior to priming. considered wet sanding the bottom. Too slick to stand on ever barefoot.

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:10 am**

That's sure looking good! It's a lot of boat to paint.

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:21 pm**

That's looking great!

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:13 pm**

Ready to start the inside

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:04 pm**

Big milestone in the project.

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:07 pm**

No kidding!!

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:28 pm**

Nice - looks good!!

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:29 pm**

Looking good!

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:12 pm**

That's a big boat!!

Nothing like making a Tahoe or suburban looks small. The scale makes so I can't tell what truck that is.

Jason

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:19 am**

Are you going to move the bunks on the trailer back to support the transom? I forget what kind of power this will end up with.

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:30 am**

The truck is a suburban and I know what you mean about it looking small. The power will be a center mounted diesel to an outdrive via jackshaft. don't plan on moving bunks. outdrive only weighs 300 lbs. going to beef up stringers for additional support anyway.

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:57 am**

Looks great! You are making me feel like a slacker. At first glance I thought you topcoated the hull sides. Did you ever weight it? At one point I thought you had mentioned doing that. Keep up the great work.

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:48 am**

I weighed the suburban and empty trailer. have not weighed empty hull. may sneak over to scales. suppose to have permits to pull it due to beam in NC.

Posted: **Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:47 pm**

Here are some pix of weekend work. Needed to find out exactly how motor was going to fit so modified turning structure to allow me to pick up motor high enough to get over transom. You can see that it fits really nicely between the stringers and is a lot lower than I had thought. Question though. The stringers are too high to allow access to all parts of the engine. I will have to cut them down. Plan is to build motor bunks on the keel side of the stringers. They will be 4 inches high at the stringer and will end up being about 6 inches wide. My plan is to span the motor mounts and then ? 2/3/4/ feet forward and aft. If I cut the stringers down to only be 4 inches high where the motor sits will it cause me structural problems or will the motor bunks fix that issue? The bunks will be epoxied to the remaining stringer and glassed generously.

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:03 pm**

Took her to the scales today. 2220 lbs as seen in last pix on my last post.

Posted: **Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:39 am**

Here is an update on progress. Have 2 layers of Okuma on transom and ready for glass . These pix show deck heights. Front deck has to be elevated to accommodate engine. Each deck will be 8 feet. This is very rough. Just wanted a rough idea to make sure the cockpit depth was adequate but not too low to allow self bailing yet have enough tankage and not too low for outdrive.. Will remove all this, build bulkhead at deck break and start stringer construction on cockpit deck.

Posted: **Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:33 pm**

You are an animal! Nice progress. To the stringer question I would look at it this way. When you calculate a beam's property you calculate a sectional modulus based on the beam (stringer) height and width. Boiling it down a little, if you currently have a height of 7.5" and a width of 1" your need to maintain a constant of (1) x (7.5) x (7.5) = 56.25. So if you change the height to 4" you get (new width) x (4) x (4) = (new width) x16= 56.25. Doing the algebra you get (new width) = 56.25/16= 3.51" so if the materials are the same you need to have a 3.5" wide x 4" high stringer in that area. I guessed on the 7.5" height so that needs to be verified.

That is how I would calculate it. Now I need to get cracking on mine!

Just saw the weight. Lighter than I guessed. How low are you going with the deck in the back? I was thinking just abone the old exhaust ports?

Posted: **Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:09 pm**

I missed the question but 4" stringers is very low.
And 7 or 8" high by 1" wide is very narrow for engine beds.
In this case, what you have in the middle are the stringers that extend from the old engine beds (it was twin straight shafts correct?)
I would build new stringers, same height as before, 3" wide at the engine mounts and with a wider spacing.
Look at the pictures of your old engine beds: they are like what I describe.
You can still install the engine low: have some offset brackets welded to lower the engine.
And make the stringers much longer than just the engine mounts spacing. Longer engine beds reduce vibrations.
It's a little more work to build oversized engine beds but it will give you peace of mind.
You are doing a major refit there, don't skip on the engine beds.
I know that a stern-drive doesn't require the same engine beds than a straight shaft but when I worked at Cigarette, my engine beds for 350 HP jackshaft were never thinner than 2" or lower than 8", plywood in plenty of 2415 tabbing.

PS: I just remember, on my last design at Pursuit, 260 HP Yanamr plus jackshaft, engine beds were 2.5" wide by about 8" wide.

Posted: **Fri May 01, 2015 5:36 am**

Got the motor bunk built. 4 layers of 5/8 with 2412 between each layer. Still need to finish glass. Right now 2.5" by 8' by 8.5' high. 2 of the stringers shown in approximate place with bulkhead.

Posted: **Fri May 01, 2015 10:06 am**

That looks good and strong from here.
I like those long stringers/engine beds, they will do a lot to absorb/spread vibrations.

Posted: **Fri May 01, 2015 6:50 pm**

Looks really good. You are making great progress. I wish I could get mine inside.

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2015 7:38 pm**

Got a lot of work done today. Have stringers, bulkheads, supports ect done in back. Will continue that work tomorrow and provide pix.

Time to get tanks on order and looking for a little advice.

Plan for 2 tanks, 5 feet long to sit between stringers. This should give me 100 gallons/tank.

That leave 3 feet not occupied by tanks. Where should I place tanks to distribute weight appropriately?

2 tanks, one engine. How do i plum the tanks to get even draw from both. Diesels return some of the uptake. where should it go?

What is the best way to mount them. was planning on hanging them on stringer rather than sitting them on the hull.

Do you have any good tank sources. Have talked briefly to RDS and boattops.com.

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