Efficient cats

[TomTom]

Salmon man - the hulls are asymmetric to make the boat more efficient - something about less wave interference between the hulls - it is explained well on Richards website.

Richard - if one had a layout more like Shakina http://www.supercat.co.za/images/38_Spo ... A_(03).jpgon the Supercat website) - 1) would one still need the nacelle and 2) is the nacelle an improvement over not having it or is it a compromise because of the open deck layout of the jazz 30? 3) I would prefer a layout more like Shakina - plenty one can walk all round the "cabin" if one were fighting a fish, but there is still lots of shade, a place to rest and get out of the sun and also the layout would be much more conducive to short overnight trips - what do you have in mind for your express/ flybridge version? 4) Is there going to be any useable space in the hulls - or do the bouncy chambers negate this possibility? It seems a waste to me to not make use of such space and for me would be a natural place for a head, shower and lockable rod storage. Have a closer look at Shakinas layout - it was specially designed for a fishing layout and I have fished on it before and it really is quite well thought out.

[TomTom]

Richard - here is a you tube of Shakina fishing for sailfish off Kenya - as you can see there is plenty of room for fishing and it is nice to have a shady place to chill

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2kBbmE9nERo

[Saqa]

SalmonMan, TomTom
We are all after the fuel efficiency of this type of boat. But our layout needs are vastly different due to our styles of fishing and the target fish. I listed our styles and more that will be sought in a 30' cat in the earlier pages with consideration number 5 and its subtexts. It might be impossible due to structural reasons but if that cat can optimize a layout that doesn't limit all the sub sections of point 5 then it will offer the ultimate in design. One small step area connecting the forward and rear halfs of the boat in the side deck area is not a big deal though but flat is better

Where trolling is concerned the back half of the boat is critical as the fishing is carried out there. I agree that you dont want to be negotiating any steps in the sole there when loaded up on a fish or even clearing lines on a strike, things get hectic!

And with the fishing style I am targeting, the forward half of the boat is most critical. All casting is done of the foredeck and with a boat this size only fishing from one side, two anglers and a decky is a crowd. The casting is done from the foredeck and the angler then moves down the side while the other angler takes a cast and they work in a cycle rotating casting and fishing positions. The angler who hooks up ends up working and walking the fish back to the transom with the decky to land the fish. This is a major consideration especially on a high platform optimised for casting and sweeping the rod. A lot of time is spent casting and working the lure back to the boat but even though time spent fighting the fish is comparatively less, it is at a greater angler effort due to the extreme physical loading. As an example, a Shimano Stella 1800 loaded with 100lb spectra and drag set at 20kg will see the angler at similar force of connection as a Shimano Tiagra 130 from your scene

For anyone wants to get a feel for this, get a bit of rope and tie it to a good set of scales. Hold the tag end of the rope and get a strong mate to grab the scale. Find a trailered boat and get the mate to run around the boat with keeping the scale loaded at 20kg. Then having to negotiate the cockpit or deck will come into perspective. That 20kg figure is a max type average. With tackle getting stronger, fit and heavily built anglers can see and handle loads far above to 30kgs. I am 100kg and 5'7" and have the back and shoulders to fish at 30kg connections

Ours is hard to describe as its a very new form. The closest would be the tournament bass scene in USA where again casting is paramount. It just their gear is at the lighter and ours the other extreme. A pair of bass boats lashed together to a bridgedeck that compliments the broad casting deck with a tiny cockpit the only obstruction, the whole thing surrounded by strong rails/fence and hull lines modified for offshore capability and fuel efficiency be ultimate for my sport

I think Richard hit the nail on head with the pontoon layout, I would extend that to offshore capable pontoon

Richard, I had a look but cant find the open deck Skoota 36 on your site. Could you please link me, thanks

[jacquesmm]

Tom Tom: I like that Shakina.
The correct link is:
http://www.supercat.co.za/images/38_Spo ... A_(01).jpg

For the others, go to the link and increment the numbers from 01 to 13 to see all the pics.
Shakina has about the same layout than what Richard proposes. It has and aft deck, along the sides you step down in a shallow trench and at the bow, well, you can't get there.
Richards design is IMHO superior because you can walk from the bow deck down to the sides.

SAGA, I went fishing with professional tuna fishermen, in the Canary islands on a 33' boat. 5 men, very busy action. Casting from the bow, walking back with the fish while crossing the other fishermen. Even with a few steps, the Jazz 30 has a better layout than the boats they used there. All boats are a compromise and I don't think we can get a perfectly flat deck. It conflicts with the structure, the height of the bridge deck etc. We may have to accept a few steps.

Back to Shakina.
See picture 13:
http://www.supercat.co.za/images/38_Spo ... A_(13).jpg
That console is great.
http://www.supercat.co.za/images/38_Spo ... A_(12).jpg
That one shows access to a hull but I suppose the hulls are wider = limit performance and it cuts access to the foredeck.
And no sealed compartments.
http://www.supercat.co.za/images/38_Spo ... A_(08).jpg
That one shows the step in the cockpit.
All together, that Shakina is close to what Richard proposes, very close.
The pilot house/console or what ever you put in the middle can be customized. You can have the super wide house as in the picture or a small cuddy or an open plan with just a console.

Think of the Jazz 30 as a modular plan. Two hulls and a pod in between. Do what you want with the pod as long as you keep the beams: pilothouse with tower, open deck, you choose.
For the hulls, I am certain that you can adjust the depth of the well.

Pontoon boat concept: bridge deck too low for offshore use.
Open deck: yes, it looks nice but at sea you need you need something to hang on to or to lean against. Otherwise, while you hang on to your fishing rod, the roll or pitch can send you running and only a few feet of acceleration are enough to throw you overboard. It can be open deck with lots of railings and some furniture to lean against.

PS: when looking at the pictures, keep in mind that the Shakina is a much larger boat.

[jacquesmm]

As an aside, I searched for that Canary island where I was in the late 70's.
http://www.bluemarlingomera.com/la-gomera
What a shock! There was no marina, no dock. Just a wall behind which maximum 10 boats could tie up.

I just watched the video of fishing on the Shakina. About 2 minutes in it, you see what I mean about open deck. The fisherman has hooked a big one. He is standing and during the fight he is pulled towards the railing. He almost looses his balance fortunately he is only 2' from the railing and stops there but with a wide open cockpit, if he had been 6' from the railing he would have flown overboard.
Open is OK if there is a lot of stuff to lean on.

[Woods Designs]

Lots of comments while I slept!

some are time consuming to answer so I'll get back here during the day. But quickies:

the side deck is about 8in wide.

You can easily do without the trench if you have a railing

You can make a big box cabin if you wish, you wouldn't then have the nacelle. As I said earlier, people are talking about three different styles of fishing and boats. so as Jacques says, think of the Jazz 30 as a floating platform and you modify the deck as you wish. The one I showed suits the style of fishing in the UK and PNW - no tuna or game fish there! One of you did say "give me the hulls, I'll put my own deck on"

The open deck Skoota 36 is a layout for a day charter company in Croatia, it's a version I am working on right now

Richard Woods

[jacquesmm]

I will split the topic. It looks like we are discussing very different boats and it gets confusing.
The CT22 topic will go to the Power Boats section, it is not a Woods design.
The other two are:
- an open deck sport fishing cat
- a boat in the style of the Shakina.
I will leave them together for now because they can use the same hulls.

[Woods Designs]

So I looked at the video and the photos. I had sketched a standing headroom cuddy as on the Shakina but it is huge and of course looked as boxy as Shakinas does (a box 6ft 6in high x 10ft wide by 8ft long can never look like anything except a big box). Don't forget that a box like that adds weight and windage, so performance would suffer.

In fact the Shakina is similar to the Skoota 28. But as Jacques says, its 10ft longer, indeed longer than my Skoota 36. In other words, put a Skoota 28 cabin on my Skoota 36 hull and you'd have Shakina. Of course you'd need 90 outboards not 40's and build cost/time will be near double. At 28ft there isn't really room in the hulls for any sensible accommodation, move up from 28 to 36ft and the difference is huge, as every dimension scales up, not just the length.

Other than that the Jazz has a bigger aft deck area than Shakina while a small aft platform is quite feasible behind the aft beam for catch and release.

I'll repeat again, no problem having a flat deck out to the side decks with no trenches. They would work well in the UK though, where we rarely get seas as flat as in that Keyna video and don't ever get fish as big

Hope that continues the conversation

Richard Woods

[Saqa]

I have big hopes for for the Jazz 30. To help the conversation in conveying the layout that I am after, I am trying to learn how to 3d render a drawing. This should help determine if the layout that I am after can be placed on the Jazz without compromising structural components like beams and such. I have no confidence in the medium of text to convey that. I am new to the world of cad so bear with me

I can see Jacques and yourself question the safety aspect of large flat areas and anglers getting launched overboard. The anglers in my sport now recognise this and come equipped with fashionable belt carried self inflatable PFDs carrying thousand dollar tackle labels It is a very vain sport btw, hence lots of camera use and forum gloating. Bottom line is we need room to swing 8' rods with lures heavy enough to put a dent in you and trebles big enough to tear your eyelids off

At the moment Asia pacific region is putting old trawler style monohulls to use due to not having new designs optimised for our sport or fishing the big centre consoles one to one with the client and burning lots of fuel or mothershipping with multiple centre consoles. The betram style gamefishing boats just dont suit our use either

Richard, how does the open Skoota 36 go with twin 40s?

[SalmonMan]

Richard- I’ve got a few questions that you missed so I’ll ask them again.

You mentioned that the Jazz 30 can be taken apart for transporting to the launch site. How is that facilitated? How can the boat be taken apart?

Can you explain the flat bottom hull shape? It would seem that a flat bottom on those hulls would produce pounding. Is there a vee to the hull bottoms that I’m missing?