1971 Starfire refit

[fallguy1000]

I just purchased a 1971 Starfire 240 SF hardtop. It needs some work and I'd really like a place to get some advice. I purchased a few things here before including plans for the LB26 (now finding a bit daunting) and just wondered if it is acceptable since I'm not doing a full build.

It looks like the sole and fuel tank is coming out and new battery compartments are in order. The boat has twin 302 engines with raw water cooling-condition unknown, but low meter hours. I ripped most of the monkey fur out of the cuddy cabin.

Do I need an outside host for pictures?

Let me know if it is okay to start the thread. Thanks. Dan

I also have a 1984 Bayliner cuddy and a 13' Boston Whaler and a 1960 Carver wood (almost done) to rebuild and would appreciate starting threads for those for friendly chat and advice perhaps as well. This seems to be the friendliest place I have found and you guys sell some of the stuff I will be needing. Again, let me know what is tolerable.

[fallguy1000]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/49595380@N05/16780282772/

Hope this works. Here is a picture of the boat.

I need to rebuild the floor and reline the cuddy. Think I want to go kiwigrip all over.

[fallguy1000]

OK, so I took out the fuel tank and part of the sole today and will try to load the picture.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/49595380@N05/16168442144/

Moderator: please delete this post. I am trying to understand how to get pictures working here and having some troubles.

[fallguy1000]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/qCKuxS][img]http ... .jpg[/img]sole by fallguy1000, on Flickr[/url]

Not sure why I have all the xtra gobbledygook. This is a start.

[fallguy1000]

So I took out part of the sole and rusty old steel fuel tank today. I am going to take out the other side as well. I have a couple of questions/thoughts/ideas.

First, another guy did this rebuild by going over the old sole remnant (about 3" on the side). I'd rather not as the hardtop is already a headbanger. He put shims above the stringers.

I think I should be able to put another stringer (if you will) under the 3/4" floor remnant and pick up both the new sole and the old remnant. Or, I could also butt block with epoxy underneath the 3/4" floor remnant, but that would be weaker. While the 3" remnant is pretty strong; not sure if it'd support a joint and 20" of new floor and a full human load. Any advice is welcome and I will be glad to order my kiwigrip and epoxy from you guys. I have already purchased quite a bit of stuff here. By the way, the stringers are solid mahogany and they are like rocks-not a bit of rot 45 year old.

Also, I have another question regarding the tank. The old tank was a simple flat tank 75 measured gallons. The space for the new tank is significantly larger if I enclose it under the new sole. And I need to fab a new tank-absolutely rust out on the old. 75 measure gallons is roughly 600 pounds of fuel. I think I could go pretty easily up to 125 gallons with a new tank which would add 400 pounds to the boat and 400 pounds of stress to the hull. The dispersion of weight would be greater and the existing tank bay is not on the boat hull bottom. The tank is riding on a false floor and that floor easily supported me standing anywhere with no notable flexing. This boat hull is carrying twin engines-188hp Mercs. It is 24' long and built on the heavier side already. I have never sat it in the water. Is it unconscionable to just plan on making a bigger tank without a water test with a water tank in the middle of the boat? The boat also has hydraulic trim tabs (fyi).

Thanks for any replies. I also wondered what fabric to use. I think woven, but there are a couple of choices there as well I believe.

And any picture posting related advice on the extra verbage by the picture would be great.

[fallguy1000]

I didn't get any responses so I'll try to be a little clearer. The picture shows where I removed the sole and the 3" remnant that is left and is marked in red. The space underneath goes down to the hull and is about 3 1/2" or so. I figured I double some 3/4" plywood or marine plywood to support the remnant of the old sole and the new sole and put it in putty, maybe even put some half moons under to avoid any entrapment if water ever gets there. This runs for 92" I'd probably preepoxy and glass the ministringer. Then get marine ply for the sole. The original sole only had glass on top and was not fastened to the stringers at all. I hate to mess with the stringers much as they are like gold in this boat. Solid mahogany and about 1 1/4" thick by 14" or so... Then for the sole, would you glass the underside with biaxial and the topside with 10 oz woven after you precoat the plywood? Can it be done wet on wet or do you dry the first coat? Also, I bought silvertip before-but you guys are carrying marinepoxy for much less, so not sure if that'd work for my repairs..I need more. I also have to build a new deck for over the engines and will probably use the same strategy as it is 30" spacing....3/4 marine ply-biaxial underneath and 10 oz on top?

Thanks. I really need only a smidgeon of support and this thing will be nice.


sole2 by fallguy1000, on Flickr

[fallguy1000]

I left out an important detail. The distance between the stringers is 32" fore and 35" aft. This area held the tank and I want to put a bigger tank in, so I will need to develop enough strength in the sole for that span. Is there any way I can do that without raising the sole? I plan to use 3/4" plywood for the sole and was going to glass both sides for some added strength, but it'll still be squishy if I don't do anything more on a 35" span. Not sure what fiberglass can add.. I saw another builder run douglas fir ribbing all the way across the top of everything, but I'm losing another 3/4" on an already low hardtop head clearance. I have seen cleats on the sides of the stringers in the tutorials here, but in order to get to a 24" span, I'd need 5" of cleat on both sides aft. Thanks for any replies.

PS They originally had mahogany boards hanging off the sides of the sole above the tank and mounted a grid of wood above the tank that could be removed to take out the tank (and it was squishy and the tank would make that horrible metal moving sound when you walked there). I'd like to build a bigger tank into the redesign.

[jacquesmm]

I didn't get any responses so I'll try to be a little clearer.

Sorry, we missed that post.

I figured I double some 3/4" plywood or marine plywood to support the remnant of the old sole and the new sole and put it in putty, maybe even put some half moons under to avoid any entrapment if water ever gets there. This runs for 92" I'd probably preepoxy and glass the ministringer.

What part is that? Th edge of the sole or?

Then get marine ply for the sole. The original sole only had glass on top and was not fastened to the stringers at all.

How was the sole supported? Any framing?

I hate to mess with the stringers much as they are like gold in this boat. Solid mahogany and about 1 1/4" thick by 14" or so...

Leave them in they are good.

Then for the sole, would you glass the underside with biaxial and the topside with 10 oz woven after you precoat the plywood?

Not necessary unless it is a thin unsupported sole. See the question above about sole framing and what is or was the sole thickness?

Can it be done wet on wet or do you dry the first coat?

Always wet on wet if possible but you may not need that glass.

Also, I bought silvertip before-but you guys are carrying marinepoxy for much less, so not sure if that'd work for my repairs..I need more.

You can do all that with MarinEpoxy but do not mix the two. The Silver Tip must be fully cured (several days at 70F) before you switch to another resin brand,
Silver Tip is great for fairing and for nicely wetting out glass but for stringers etc., Marinepoxy is just fine.

I also have to build a new deck for over the engines and will probably use the same strategy as it is 30" spacing....3/4 marine ply-biaxial underneath and 10 oz on top?

Way too much. It depends on the framing but 3/4" on 30" spacing is stiff enough by itself. You can fiberglass the outside for protection, with a light fabric.

I will look again at your picture and try to understand how the sole is supported but you can help me by explaining.
Also, watch out for grease, contamination etc. All those surfaces must be perfectly clean before you start with the resin.

[jacquesmm]

I looked at your pictures again and it looks like the sole was supported by the stringers. Wast it not glued to those small cleats?

[fallguy1000]

Thank you Jacques.

The sole was not glued to the stringers. It just floated, save the outside edges. They ran the sole to the edge of the hull and sawed an angle and it doesn't even touch the hull (can feel underneath), but is tabbed from the top and sort of hangs there...maybe they prefabbed the 90 corners, or shimmed underneath and pulled the shims out after glassing? Then they glassed in over the ends with full glass over the entire sole. Then in the middle over the tank, they glassed two pieces, one on each side of 1"x3" mahogany and ran that for most of the 92" length-those stiffeners floated in space as well. Then they screwed a cleat to that and put the wood grille thing over the top of the tank. So nothing was really glued down, just tabbed in on the sides with tape and glassed over on the ends and the floor was a bit squishy in the middle. When you walked, it buckled the tank and made that horrible metal buckling noise.

I want to put a new larger gas tank in with some access hatches and close the sole above the tank. I left 3" of the existing sole in place because it is hanging off the piece of plywood about 12" long on the sides and it would be too risky to the hull to start hacking it out with a sawzall. So, I thought I'd make some plywood stringers from scraps and put them under that 3" remnant and support the new sole with them at the same time. I can only access the deep side of course.. Then, if that sounds okay, the only question is how to develop enough strength across the 35" span in the middle.

The dimensions of this sole section is about 92.5" long by 72" wide fore and 75" wide aft. So when I cut away and leave the 3" piece on each side, I'll need to cut two sheets of plywood to approximately 66" to 69" and then I'll have a joint in the middle of that long span. I figured I'd end up glassing the underside of the plywood sheets to get span rating up to 35", unless you had another idea. I could also put one piece of sole across the stringers and two pieces on each side...that would avoid an unsupported joint. Opinion?

The batteries were in the same compartment as the fuel tank and I don't really like that so I plan to make a battery compartment separate that floats above the bilge bottom and would have a hatch cover for access. I laid it out and can't really put 4D batteries in the spacing (35" doesn't take 2 20" batteries), so I am going to plan for a 4 battery setup like group 27s. I can even vent that battery box.

These stringers look gorgeous. The boat was a Utah boat and saw little use methinks. The floor damage is clearly from rainwater/winter as the rot starts up high on the inside behind the hardtop. And the snow and ice in the boat was where? Right over the main rot on the sole. The separate engine stringers were not glassed on the ends and have like 1/8" delamination on one that I will epoxy fill. I only mention it because a 45 year old unlaminated piece of exposed plywood with almost zero delamination is almost bizarre.

The cuddy, by the way, was monkeyfur and mildewed and I pulled all the monkeyfur and all the ingress is fitting related (antennas and holes from depthfinder wiring, etc.)

I'd like your opinion on the tank resizing as well. I know it is only a friendly opinion. The old, removable tank was 75 measured gallons or about 600#. I think I can put a nonremovable tank in that is much closer to 125 gallons which adds 400# of weight. This is already a pretty heavy boat with twin engines and handlaid glass and a hardtop that is solid as a rock. I discussed it with the fabricator and he doesn't see a problem with building it, just said he can't promise it'll ride okay. I think my range with 70 gallons of gas is probably only 70 miles and while I don't plan to do much offshoring with it-seems prudent to build as big as possible. I could always decide it rode best 3/4 full and only fill higher if I wanted to run a lot..The tank platform is solid. I tried to find any softspots and did not. There was a lot of moist steel, but the wood seems fine?

Thanks... Dan