Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Getting ready to purchase plans and would appreciate input from the forum as to which would be my better center console choice (OB17 or FS17). I am a retired building contractor with a wife and dog and need a stable boat that would be mainly be used on our NC inland lakes, coastal sounds and inter coastal waterway.

The FS17 is a smaller boat: small water plane that means shorter waterline, narrower beam at WL BUT it is a very seaworthy boat. The design is based on a classic hull from NC, the Simmons Sea Skiff.
For comfort, I would pic the OB17, for fishing offshore, I would build the FS17 but each one will do everything well.

I purchased the FS 17 plan and am well along with my first boat building project, so far it has been enjoyable and I have progressed to the stitch and glue stage which will begin tomorrow. I purchased the Silver Tip kit and am learning to deal with this sticky product and have read some of the basic tutorials that are available. With the major fiberglass and epoxy application ahead I would appreciate any helpful hints from those of you who have a lot of practical knowledge in dealing with these products.

Start with something simple like spot welds along the seams then apply the tape.
Read our tutorials in particular the Stitch and Glue 101 and if you have questions, post here.
It is not complicated: painting is more difficult than to apply epoxy resin.

Thanks very much, I have read SG 101 and will proceed as outlined. Getting ready to stitch this AM.

Finished stitching FS 17 this morning and was most impressed with the plan accuracy. When I received the plans I spent $10 on a drywall T square and used it for all the measurements. Also, built a strong back frame with casters which has made it easy to roll in and out of my garage during the building process which has been fun. Everything fit together perfectly.

Note picture of FS 17 Completed Stitching.

[img]C:\Users\By\Pictures\FS%2017\FS%2017%20build%201.JPG[/img]

Five years with my FS17 have proven the quality of the design to me. A 40 mile open water (round) trip last weekend from CT shore to Montauk, NY really validated how capable the boat is. Safe and stable ride across 1-3 ft waves and confused chop at speeds averaging mid to high teen mph. Boat fishes with plenty of room for 3 adults. And 30 mph top speed on 40 hp. Very little that I would change. Build it right and you'll have an excellent small vessel IMO.

Bill

Thanks Bill, I love to read that kind of report.

Having difficulty in posting pic. but was able to include it in the gallery for those who may be interested. I am delighted to have the seaworthiness of this boat confirmed, thanks for you comments.

[quote="byboatbuilder"]Note picture of FS 17 Completed Stitching.




Those panels sure fit well!


your first attempt you used the location of the photo on your computer, not in the gallery. Use the preview button to check if you have it right, that will save you some effort.

Perfect stitching job. Nice

Thanks for the picture posting help and your kind comments.

Build is going great! For planning purposes I need some advice regarding the location and size of chase tubes for a teleflex steering system, engine controls and,of course, electrical. Will build a center console and am considering locating the gas tank under the console or seat area and would appreciate any thoughts as to the size and location of the tank for a 40hp 4s. The gas line will have its own chase.

byboatbuilder wrote:Build is going great! For planning purposes I need some advice regarding the location and size of chase tubes for a teleflex steering system, engine controls and,of course, electrical.

Same for all boats: 2" or more OD, min. 24" radius for the turns, holes in framing close to the top, not the bottom, fuel in separate chase tube.

Will build a center console and am considering locating the gas tank under the console or seat area and would appreciate any thoughts as to the size and location of the tank for a 40hp 4s. The gas line will have its own chase.

Under console and size is up to you. I would say 25 gallons, max. 40.

Thanks Jacques for you usual prompt response..

Since I will be painting the hull shortly, what are your supplier recommendations for superior quality paint and primer?

40 hp at full throttle will burn about 4gph. That would produce a speed of about 30mph or a bit more. 75% power would be about 22-24 mph at about 3 gph and much more comfortable if there's any chop.I'd decide how much range I need and go from there. We got a 9 gal. above deck tank for our FS17 new at a very low price, like 30 bucks. It's mounted under the console/seat. This runs our older 40 2 stroke for 3-4 hours of fishing at mixed speed between trolling and covering distance. Max range is about 40 miles in our case. I'd think 15-20 gal. would be plenty in most cases. Take a look at the 18 gal. Moeller for instance. I do like the small tank because it's easy to get all the fuel out at the end of season and not have funky gas issues the following spring.

I routed the Teleflex steering cable from the CC area up to the enclosed starboard gunwale, then back inside it to the transom. This has worked out fine and is easy to push the cable through. Cracker Larry's OD18 picture is worth a look. Think he reposted it about 10 days ago. Just copy (more or less ) and you'll probably be happy.

Bill
CT

Thanks Bill for your continued interest and practical advise that is most helpful in my planning process. My wife and I are going to Beaufort, NC this weekend and plan to look at a number of boat color combinations since this area is the wooden boat building hub of or state.

Since I will be painting the hull shortly, what are your supplier recommendations for superior quality paint and primer?

Right here is a good place to get it. The System 3 high build yacht primer is hard to beat, as are the EMC topcoat paints. I do not recommend S3 for topcoats. They make a great primer, but the paints not so good.

I put a 40 gallon tank in my OD18 and with a 70hp 2 stroke Yamaha I can run for 2 full days easy. Range is about 300 miles.

Thanks so much for your expert advice regarding the System 3 primer.

Larry, System Three came out with a new topcoat and you would be surprised: easier to apply and much higher gloss than the previous one.
We'll post about it when it goes in production. It will be less than half price of a solvent based LPU like EMC, easier to use, very hard and looks good.
I am going to promote that paint.

PS: I agree about the old formulation.

Larry, System Three came out with a new topcoat and you would be surprised:

They sure did need too. The original sucked!

Almost finished fairing with Quick Fair and have been pleased with the product. Sanding has gone well and everything looks good. I need some advice as to whether I need to add another coat of epoxy to seal the faring prior to priming. I have ordered and plan to use the System 3 primer.

Finished fairing and plan to apply System 3 primer next week. Have not received a response to my previous post as to whether I need to seal the Quick Fair with epoxy prior to priming.

No need to seal it just sand with 120 and apply the System 3. As I recall it is an epoxy based primer.

Tom

That is correct, it's an epoxy based primer. No need for an additional seal coat.

Just wanted to be certain before proceeding with the primer. Again, thanks so much for your advice.

Finally I reached the flipping milestone stage of my FS 17 build. Since my retired friends can only lift around 20lbs on a good day I decided to purchased a chain hoist on line and a couple of cheap block and tackle pulleys from Harbor Freight and make this a one person flip. With the pulleys and hoist attached to my garage joists and my wife's help, what could have been a little stressful, turned out to be a piece of cake. Please note pics which show how this was done.

Getting ready to start building my center console and need some advice regarding the best location for my batteries. Have a little more glassing and the interior will almost be complete. I plan to post some picks shortly . My gas tank is located just forward of the console under a casting platform I have included in the build and my concern is weight distribution. I will be installing a new 30 hp Suziki with a weight of approx. 160 lbs. My plan is to have a starting battery in addition to one for a 12 v trolling motor. I have storage available in a transom compartment for one battery (starting) and room in the console for both or just one. My other transom compartment looks as if it will be consumed with cables, wiring etc. Any suggestions will certainly be appreciated.

I see nothing wrong with what you propose.
I like to have the trolling motor battery as close as possible to the motor: long cables waste power.

Thanks, I will plan to put the starting battery in the left transom compartment and the trolling motor battery in the console area which will result in less output wire runs.

I started this life-long dream project exactly one year ago. As a retiree, I had the luxury of working on the boat at my leisure and truly enjoyed the experience.

Thank you, Jacques, for a beautiful design and your technical assistance. Many thanks to all who contribute to the forum, it is invaluable. A special thanks to Cracker Larry for his many helpful posts. It seems like every time I had a question, I could always find it somewhere in one of his posts.

I added some special touches such as mahogany trim and toe rails which were a challenge to install especially the bends. My wife's garment steamer was a great help to this process.

The self-satisfaction of building your own boat and achieving a successful launch was a tremendous pleasure.

Congratulations, your boat looks great.
One year is much faster than most especially considering the attention to details.
On Monday, I will fix the link to the full size pictures.

PS: As I was putting the boat on the trailer I had a guy at the ramp who wanted to know where the heck that boat came from, he said it was awesome! Boy, did that make me feel good.

A special thanks to Cracker Larry for his many helpful posts.

Welcome and congrats. Nice job

Those boat ramps compliments are worth the whole building effort.

byboatbuilder, really nice job!! The boat looks fantastic and really deserve those ramp complements!! As Jacques said, we will get your pics fixed Monday so everyone can see the details!!! Great job and congrats!! Jeff

Since the pictures of my completed FS 17 are still showing up small, should I re-post?

No, give me until later this morning. If we can't correct, I will ask you to re-post!! Jeff

I"ll do it later today.

You have to go to the pictiures and right click on the full size image, not the thumbnail.

She is definitely a beauty! The compliments I like the best is when the man pulls me over and instead of hassling me about safety gear and what not, he's talking about the boat. Or when the captain of the stone crab boat is fixated on her, while his crew is overloading my cooler with fresh claws...way beyond the Benjamin we handed over. One of my best comments to come out of my mouth..."I made it. Started with a set of plans in a manilla envelope."

The mahogany is a wonderful personal touch. Hoping to put some on the rails of my SC16 I'm building. Congrats!

to fix pictures like that all you have to do is remove the "thumb_" part, like this:

gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/89200/thumb_IMG_0989.JPG
becomes:
gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/89200/IMG_0989.JPG

and it will give you the full size image

Thanks very much for what you guys have done and what you continue to do in making this forum so successful.

Byboatbuilder, the boat looks great!!! Really nice wood work!! Jeff

A beautiful boat, another example of what the builders can do from a set of paper plans from Jacques.

Great looking boat! I bet you are loving it.
When you get the time please post some performance numbers. I think I did read where you put a 30HP on her?

Your boat is beautiful and completed in 1 year. Wow!

After taking the boat out several time to break in the engine I would like to share some of the concerns with the numbers I am experiencing. As suggested by Jacques I installed a 30hp which I purchased new from a Suzuki dealer and, after break in, at WOT my max RPM's are 3400 and boat speed is 25MPH with two adults and a small dog on board.. The boat performs excellent at that speed. I contacted the dealer regarding the low RPM's and their tech made two suggestions: Raise the engine 1" and drop the prop pitch down ,he also asked if my guage was reading correct. The outboard cavitation plate is currently dead level with the keel as recommended for installation and I am not inclined to drill anther hole in the transom and move it up. The prop that came with the engine is 10.5 X 12". I asked the tech if I needed to adjust the throttle cable and he said I didn't need to mess with the "black box". I have a binnacle control box on my center console and as I move the the throttle the last inch or so forward there is not a corresponding increase in engine speed or RPM as one would expect.

Help... before I proceed I would appreciate any advice that those of you who have experience with dealing with these issues can provide.

Some is not right! 3400 rpm out of a 30HP and you are going 25 mph? I would think it would take more than that just to get it out of the hole My first thought is there has to be something wrong with the tach. It is set for a 6 cylinder and you have 3? Just guessing here, I hope a pro will jump in and help.

I just did a little math. Bear in mind I am far from a prop expert. If your motor had a 2-1 reduction the most you could see is 16MPH at 3400 RPM with zero prop slip. So 25MPH at 3400RPM can not be happening. Has to be something else. I would not mess with the prop of engine height until I knew for sure the tach is reading correctly.

My first thought is there has to be something wrong with the tach. It is set for a 6 cylinder and you have 3? Just guessing here, I hope a pro will jump in and help

I agree with Fuzz. Did you install the tach? They have settings on the back for both number of cylinders and number of poles on your alternator. They can be a little tricky to set right for a specific engine. If it's not that, then your prop is way off and your engine is way low. But you are already running a fairly low pitch prop, probably can't get much lower Check that tachometer again, something isn't right.

I would think it would take more than that just to get it out of the hole

My FS17 had no trouble getting on a plane with a sorta tired Yamaha 25 2 stroke. Lightly loaded the boat transitions to a plane at around 12mph or so with very little change in pitch. Boat topped out with 2 aboard at about 25mph. But I'd have to agree that 25 mph will take a lot more than 3400 rpm (/2.09 = 1626 prop rpm) with 12" pitch.. I'd get the tach sorted out before changing anything else.

Bill
CT

Yep definitely make sure that the tach is set up properly. Then let's set up the prop. With the FS17 and only 30HP I believe you will need a 10 pitch prop. That should put you in the upper rev range of 5500 to 6000 rpms. You do not want to be under that recommended rev range, as you will damage the motor. I have done a few prop simulations that have gotten the right pitch for the motor and boat, including CL OD18. Another was an FS17 with a Yamaha 60HP on it. If the 12 pitch gets you above 5500 that is good.

I wish you luck, if you need help let me know here.

Tom

Thanks so much for the input. I just checked my Suzuki Tac install instructions and it indicated that the proper setting for my 30hp was 6 poles. In the troubleshooting section it stated that if the tac reads too low the switch is set too high. I feel sure that I set the guage at 6; however, I certainly plan to double check and ensure that the guage is set correctly. The lowest setting is 4.

If it's a Teleflex, the little markings on them can be tricky to decipher. Took me a while to figure them out.

Thanks again guys for your recommendations, I removed my Tack today and reread the installation instructions and realized that I used the number of poles that correspond to my engine alternator and set the dial accordingly which I thought would be 6. Unfortunately, that was way off and the correct dial setting should have been 2 based on the tiny chart that was stuck on the back of the Tack. I plan to put the boat in the water tomorrow to confirm that this new setting is correct.

I told you they were tricky to read and decipher When you get that right we can sort out other problems. Can't tell anything without an accurate tach.

It was the Tack. Reset Tack to the pole # that corresponds with the setting chart and WOW. Started engine and RPM went from 2000 to 8000 with acceleration and then off the dial. Ok, all I need to do now is adjust the setting and everything should be fine since I had been getting low readings and now they were high; therefore, somewhere in the middle should be just right. I set switch initially at 6 went to 2 and figured 4 would be perfect. Guess what, the Tack went dead. Returned to previous settings and no readings at all. Checked all connections and gauge is receiving power.

Called Browns Point Marine, the Suzuki supplier of my Tack and received an RA. Their service folks said I should have ignored the setting instructions since all Suzuki engines are 12 poles and their Tack's are preset and should be installed out of the box. I told them that information should be provided with the purchase. My frustration level is pretty high right now.

Nothing but a thing. You'll get it sorted out.

Installed the new tach today and took her out to confirm that it was,in fact, the tach that had been giving me readings that made no sense based based on the way the engine was performing. My new Suzuki DF30A is rated at a max 6200 RPMS and with the boat fully loaded today with two adults and gear at WOT I was showing 5600 RPMS with a boat speed of 24.6 MPH. My guess is with one less person on board I would be close to maximizing the rated RPMS and probably gain a few more MPH. If some of you prop experts have some thoughts, please let me know since I am planning to purchase a stainless prop in the near future.

As always, thanks again for the helpful input that this forum provides

What prop do you have on now, diameter and pitch. 5600 rpms with that load is not bad at all! It might be improved a little bit when you go to the stainless. I would like to see you set the rpm's with you aboard at about 6000 with the stainless. Then when you load it up your motor will not be over loaded. Remember a stainless is more efficient over an aluminum but we need to take into account the amount of rake and cup that the stainless has. I normally work with Power Tech props now, have not had good luck with some of the other vendors.

I will be glad to help you tune in your prop on your boat using my prop formulas..

Tom

The prop that is on now came with the engine 10.5 X 12". Any help will certainly be appreciated.

Any way you cut it that is really good speed out of 30HP. Must be both a really good design and a boat built right And it does not hurt it really looks good too

byboatbuilder wrote:The prop that is on now came with the engine 10.5 X 12". Any help will certainly be appreciated.

Looking at the Power Tech props the SRA-3 in a 10 pitch may work very well for you. It has 20 degrees of rake and is cupped, so it will help you in turns and also allow you to raise your motor an inch or two. The other Power Tech props really don't provide much advantage over your current aluminum one. You would be as well off getting a stainless steel from your Suzuki dealer.

As Fuzz said you won't get much more speed, maybe a couple of mph but don't count on it with the load you had.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Tom for you helpful advice as I shop for an additional prop. The physics of your recommendation makes sense to me.

I went through much of the same stuff setting up my FS17 with it's little Yamaha 25 2-stroke. Another thing I found was that engine height had a big effect on top speed. 1/2" lifting raised speed by nearly 2 mph as I recall. But it was a back and forth between speed and prop ventilation. I still need to lower the current Yamaha 40 a bit to keep the prop better engaged when turning at speed. Looks like you are well on the way to sorting it all out.

When you get this fully sorted out I hope you'll post the results to my Aug. 2012 post "FS17 Performance". With a little luck others might be able to save some of the fiddling that we've gone through.

Bill
CT

I absolutely love this boat and will be more than happy to share my experience as I fine tune the engine position, prop and anything else that may be helpful to the future builders of the FS 17.