Page 1 of 1

28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:31 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Well here I go again. The second Bertram project. I learned a lot with the last boat from the advice on this forum and thru trial and error. The last one took 2 years. I hope this one to be quicker. Still trying to decide if I want to go with duel outboards or use the same configuration I/O that the current boat has. I believe outboards would be a faster rebuild and give me a faster boat based on what Daytrip has done with his boat. Economy wise I would expect about 1-1.5 miles/gallon. Cost wise a set of new 300 HP Yamahas will run about 48K. If I decide to resell this boat it will probably be easier with outboards.

The current boat with the 370 Hp yanmar performs well but i feel the boat is underpowered. I was hoping for a cruse of upper 20s and it takes a little longer than my previous diesel boats to spool up to full power. I do love the economy at 2.5 m/g and am not uncomfortable being offshore with only one engine due to the reliability of the diesels. If I decide to go back with a diesel I will go with a 480 or 540 hp cumming QSB 6.7. The cost of a reman cummings mated to the volvo DPH-C will be about 47K so cost is the same as twin outboards on a bracket.

For boat configuration I am torn between going back with an express layout vs a center console like the Invensible boats uses in it 39 open fisherman model. The 28 Bertram with its 11 ft beam would allow for a very wide console with easy seating for 6, 3 facing forward and 3 facing aft and still have plenty of cockpit space and would allow access to the bow.

Let me know your thoughts and any other considerations.. I will be bringing the boat home over the July 4 weekend and starting demolition.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:49 am
by Reid
I'm eager to see this project! I have always liked Bertram. Personally I would go with duel outboards on a bracket, especially if you are looking for resale value. As far as configuration goes, what about doing an open cockpit, wrap around seating, with a hard top tower. This way you get the comforts of having a nice big cockpit with room to sit and enjoy a sandbar day but it also leaves plenty of room to fish. I like these configurations on small sport fishermans because they look really clean. Anyway you go I'm sure you will have no issues with a resale. Those are great hulls.

Reid

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:00 am
by topwater
If i was building this for myself i would build it with a big center console and a big Cummings diesel .
If i was building to sell i would build it with outboards .

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:05 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Reid, can you give me an example of a boat that you are talking about.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:15 pm
by Reid
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:05 pm Reid, can you give me an example of a boat that you are talking about.
This is a friend's boat, 35' custom. It is obviously larger than your Bertram but you can get an idea of what I am talking about. The cockpit is very clean with plenty of sitting room. Your tower would certainly not be as high but a smaller scale version would work. This would allow you to keep your space below deck. What is down there by the way?

Reid

Image

Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:12 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
That is what is was thinking about as an express version except for the seating.I had a boat with side seating like your friends and did not like it too much. It was not very comfortable for the passengers. When riding out in less than ideal conditions they were always sliding down the seats toward the stern piling up on each other. The 28 that i just finished is very similar except the seating is rear facing with a little tilt to make it less likely to slide out of the seat. I live in Greenville, NC. The boat is currently in Charleston.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:19 am
by fallguy1000
I prefer the look of the express, but I am partial to weather enclosures on boats. If I got to choose, it'd be dual outboard with the express look. If I see a center console here in Mn, I do a double take; they are rare.

...Dan

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:09 pm
by cape_fisherman
1197

So...this is a lot of work. I say mark out your cockpit & helm space, and use the forward area as cabin. We're going for custom express here. At the transition from cockpit to helm have a few inches of step up. Add on bridge wings and a short dayboat lip forward of the dash. At the same pit/helm transition build raised storage/live well pods with seating on either side.

Outboards all day long.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:12 pm
by cape_fisherman
Or go crazy & extend the hull 3'...make it everything the 31 could have been.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:44 pm
by devinfox
cape_fisherman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:12 pm Or go crazy & extend the hull 3'...make it everything the 31 could have been.
I don't mean to hijack, but is this a doable thing? Cut a boat in half somewhere and graft in a section of hull and splice or add new stringers/frames? I have done it with an older jeep to essentially make a scrambler out of it, but jeep did the engineering on the scrambler (chassis and all) already.

I think the 28 Bertram is a great little boat, but some extra length would be nice.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:53 pm
by cape_fisherman
devinfox wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:44 pm
cape_fisherman wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:12 pm Or go crazy & extend the hull 3'...make it everything the 31 could have been.
I don't mean to hijack, but is this a doable thing? Cut a boat in half somewhere and graft in a section of hull and splice or add new stringers/frames? I have done it with an older jeep to essentially make a scrambler out of it, but jeep did the engineering on the scrambler (chassis and all) already.

I think the 28 Bertram is a great little boat, but some extra length would be nice.
Yes, done quite regularly...certain hull designs are more receptive. I have seen extensions that are on the stern, and I've seen them where the hull was cut somewhere forward of the stern, separated, skins added that spans the gap for use as a "mold", and start laying glass. The typical extension "I've ever seen" are from 2'-4'.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:21 am
by Fuzz
Up here they do a lot of hull stretching. Depending on the hull 10 feet is not unusual. Cutting them in half and adding to the middle seems to work out the best. Adding on to the stern tends to cause problems with steering and sea keeping. At least it does in the boats I have been around. This was all on inboard hulls and not outboard powered ones.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:36 pm
by cape_fisherman
Fuzz wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:21 am Up here they do a lot of hull stretching. Depending on the hull 10 feet is not unusual. Cutting them in half and adding to the middle seems to work out the best. Adding on to the stern tends to cause problems with steering and sea keeping. At least it does in the boats I have been around. This was all on inboard hulls and not outboard powered ones.
Agreed. Two to three feet on the stern of an outboard boat isn't much of an issue. Start adding to the stern of an inboard and I can see weird things happening.

Saw a guy cut the bow off a Carolina sportfisher once with a chainsaw right in front of the house...added about 7' & put it all back together...big bow flare & all. Now that was a trick.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:43 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
I am sure it is possible but I am not up to that at this point. By going inboard or putting the outboards on a bracket you pick up 3 feet over other 28s anyway.

Headed to Charleston tomorrow to get her back on the trailer. Going to take the top off to make her easier to transport before i head back to NC

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:28 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Have been thinking about the extension some more....Might be interesting. Could I possibly modify the last 3 feet if I extend it to give it better down sea tracking.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:38 pm
by Fuzz
Adding to the stern is easier than adding to the middle if you are planning on using outboards.
Man you must love working on the 28s if you are starting another one so soon. :D Based off the first one I am sure this will be a really nice build.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:54 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Well, successful trip to Charleston and back. Used my dad's track hoe to load her on the trailer by using straps to lift her up and then drive the trailer underneath. Then the best part. My dad grabbed the top with the track hoe and ripped it off. A couple more bites from inside and my demolition work was reduced considerably. Having done this before i didn't worry too much. A saw, a crow bar and a big hammer did the rest. Hit the interstate and ran 65 all the way home. A couple of more hours in the back yard and here she is at present.

Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:09 pm
by DAYTRIP
Demolition made easy! Have you decided on a layout?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:27 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I really like express boats. They provide an excellent fishing platform, storage, and shelter from the elements. Unless something happens, she will be an express with outboards.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:28 am
by Jeff
Wow, fast demo job!! Really looking forward to watching you build!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:09 am
by Fuzz
Love that method of demoing things. A few minutes pulling levers and its done :lol:

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:50 pm
by deuce_454
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Caterpillar-CAT ... mo&vxp=mtr

:D :D :D its even a matched set

i love these builds... (i have a question though, how do you strip the gelcoat without damaging the fibreglass.... i have a large 150 psi pressure washer with a blasting setup... but id be mortified to take it to a boat hull ....

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:21 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I don't worry about the gel coat. The gel coat in these boats was pretty bad especially on the bottom. Best to get to good glass and go from there.

I have been completing some other projects around the house this summer and waiting for my shop to go up. Framing is starting today so I should soon have a place to work out of the elements. I have decided to go with outboards on this boat and to extend the hull with a euro transom rather than a bracket. From my research on them, some manufactures continue the hull as one continuous running surface while others step up at the transom. The idea behind this is to give clean water at the engines. I would appreciate any thoughts about which would be best and why.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:17 pm
by DAYTRIP
Hey Mike, I am running mine as you know. I do have a couple things I would modify so I am happy to share as you know. Engines do great on the bracket. That said I would get as much buoyancy back there as possible. My concern with extending is first the hydrodynamics but then the blending of the hull sides in an extension. You look and the hull curves toward the back and has some tumblehome in it.The other item i would incorporate is the ability put water ballast in front of the current front engine bulkhead. Right now I have 45 gallons sitting on the floor of what was the vberth. That helped a lot. I am building a 100 gallon tank in between the stringers from the forward bulkhead to the vberth bulkhead.

It is a total animal with the outboards! I love it.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:28 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Thanks Jim. So you are saying that i should stick with a flotation bracket and avoid going all the way to the sides and having to worry about that and put a lot of weight forward.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:52 am
by DAYTRIP
Yes that is what I would do differently Mike for sure. If you are leaving a lot of the existing structure forward you may be ok but I would have the ability to add or remove water forward. I would build a tank in that can be empty or full based on the need.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:50 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Have been waiting for cooler weather and finishing up some other things but now ready to start on number 2. Here are some pix of the bracket layout. Planning on twin 250s as Daytrip did since he got such great performance. Am I close in what i have drawn?



Image Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:57 am
by Fuzz
It looks like you have a good plan. One question, will there be room to lower the motor some if needed. I ask because I have found it would have been nice to be able to lower my motor an inch or two. It was installed at the height recommended by the builder and they build the brackets for the factory so I did not question it. Turns out I could use a little more drop.
Is the 25 inch where your lines are drawn or is it 25 inch to the hull bottom? And is this going to be twins or a single? I think you said twins just want to make sure.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:01 am
by Mbiggerstaff
It will be twins. I was thinking that if adjustment is needed i will be able to slide the motors either way to get the cavitation plate where it needs to be. Once the holes are drilled it is done unless i drill more holes. is 4" enough above the platform?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:17 am
by DAYTRIP
You are making me want to do this again Mike! What length shaft are you planning for the motors? Mine are 30" for no other reason than that is what my neighbor had and I bought his. For yamahas the mounting center was 28.5". I can measure and take pics of anything you want. I think the top of the clamping board is 7" of the platform on mine and they tilt fine. Just tell me what I can measure or tak pics of.

I would go as wide as possible on the tub too. In retrospect I could have gone another 9" on each side and still fit the tabs. Awesome man.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:11 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Daytrip, by mounting center do you mean the distance between engines? If so why could it not be more or less? 7" is a number I needed to know. Didn't think about tilt. I am in the same situation as you with the engines. A good friend want to go to bigger engines on his boat and he has 250s now. I was planning on going as wide as the outboard stringers and extend the stringers all the way to the transom board.

If you are thinking about another one come join me for a day of grinding out old glass and you may reconsider!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:27 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
After some modification here are the newest measurements

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:48 pm
by Rciminieri
That boat will never compare to a 32. Totally different hull. Hunts hull had much more rise much further back with reversed chines. You mentioned 370 yanmars being underpowered?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:18 pm
by DAYTRIP
Hey Mike,

So just to give you what I know and did. For every ft of set back I raised the engines 1 inch. The bottom of the bracket slopes up at that same pitch. My bracket is 30". I came up 2.5 inches from the bottom at the existing transom. Then I sloped up from there then made a 30" transom. For reference my platform is 22" from the top of the gunnel in the center. Yours will be lower with the 25" motors. The clamping board is 7" up from the platform. All that said my engines are mounted 2" up from the top of the clamping board.

You can mount the motors wider but not closer than 28.5" for Yamahas as they won't turn. If you go wider you may have to custom build a tie bar. They are expensive! Check and see what you are getting with the motors. Those things are like 400-500 bucks. The only issue making the tub as wide as the outer stringers (70") is the trim tabs won't fit. The top of the actuator won't have room unless you are using something different? Mine is 48" wide and could have been 60" with the way my tabs are set up.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:53 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Thanks jim. With motors up, how much clearance do you have to transom? I am thinking of building a seat into the transom.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:16 pm
by DAYTRIP
Not much!

Image


Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:12 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Good pix. No room foe seat unless i make the bracket 4 feet long which is probably too much.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:23 am
by DAYTRIP
You could do it on the side but the center would be tough. For reference those scuppers are not at the original floor height. The platform is right we're the original scuppers were.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:36 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Jim. Did you ever weigh the completed boat?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:10 am
by DAYTRIP
I did not. It is light though. Building a ballast tank under console now. I thinks thousand pounds will really help. I would guess I am about 7000 lbs

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:32 am
by DAYTRIP
Mike, why did you take the stringers in the old engine area out? Just easier to replace vs getting the bolt on part off? What have you figured for a layout?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:10 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Everything was completely rotten. Started cutting and kept going until I found good wood each way. Picked up some plywood yeaserday and ready ro replace when threat of rain passes.

This one is going to be a center console type. If you have ever seen an Invensible Boat that is what I am thinking with some things pulled from the True World that I owned. At this point it is fluid. Got a stringer and bulkhead mocked up today. Going to cut it in 3/4 pine plywood. Lot cheaper than mahagony if I don't have it right.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:00 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Off shore weather has not been favorable for wahoo fishing so I have had some time to work on the boat. Made a mock up of the bracket.
Image

On the final I added 4 inches to the top of the stringers which will still give me a 3" lip to mount the motors. Stringers are double 3/4" and will go all the way to the aft bulkhead.

Image
Image

Continued on forward with second bulkhead. Tanks will go between the two bulkheads with forward and aft facing bench seating over the tanks. Just about finished demo going forward. waiting to set stringers and bulkheads before taking off the cabin roof. Bottom to get soda blasted next week and my shop will be ready next week. will put it back on the trailer and move it inside and start putting it together.

Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:34 pm
by DAYTRIP
That was fast! I would say your bracket will have plenty of structure. Looks good. Looks like you are putting your seating and tanks about 2' forward of where mine are . You going to have the space you want for the console?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:34 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I was thinking the same about the console. Given my choices i like a big cockpit. The console will definitely not be as nice as yours. I may go ahead and rip off the cabin cover to get a better feel of the space going forward. This is one of the fun parts of doing this-nothing is set in stone and you can move things around until it suits your needs. Not like buying a boat off a lot. The weather is FINALLY cooperating for fishing. Going to the beach for the next week to hopefully slay some hoo!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:03 am
by cape man
The last pic is great, showing the two WMDs. I can almost smell the sweat and dust. You are doing an awesome job, and a job that would scare the bee jees out of me.
Good luck on the Hoos. My favorite pelagic fish!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:24 am
by DAYTRIP
my console is big as in initially thought of it as a walk around cabin for the most part. It is 8' from front to back. It leaves about 3' 9" in front of the console to the anchor locker bulkhead. My seating is directly over the old engine area. The aft engine room bulkhead and forward one are the front and rear of the seat. So the cockpit is the same size as original. I am with you on big cockpits. 95% of my fishing is done back there so makes sense to make it big.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:12 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
i am also trying to move as much weight forward as possible to avoid having to do what you are doing now. I figured fuel will be my balast. if yours is 8ft and i am 2 ft forward of you, mine should be 5-6.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:49 pm
by DAYTRIP
Yep. I agree

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:22 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Had the bottom soda blasted yesterday. Ready to get her back on the trailer and inside to get some serious work done.

Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:29 am
by Eric1
That came out really well!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:58 am
by DAYTRIP
Cleans it up nicely! Looks like they captured it pretty well, can't see any debris. What did it run to do that mike? Mine was 1200 if I remember correctly and that was a combo of water and sand

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:18 am
by Mbiggerstaff
They used all dry chemical. told them I wanted the blisters taken all the way out. Said that if they use water it would be faster but not as powerful. Looks like I will just need to apply layer of silica/epoxy paste, sand, add a layer of glass and prime and paint. Last time I used dremmel tool to get all the blisters out. It took forever!!! Cost was $1700. More than last time but a better end result.

I went ahead and took the hood off and did a lot of grinding inside. Jim, did you put your live well in the deck and how does ice hold up in your fishbox with the 1.5" low density foam that you used as insulation? I am looking at placing the fishbox in the deck like you did and placing the live well to stern of the fish box. I got all the stuff ready to fabricate hatches and gutters like you did last time. Any hints/advice?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:53 pm
by DAYTRIP
Holds ice great Mike. I did use that 4lb polyumac in the big one and the 2 lb pourable in the smaller side ones. Honestly I think it is 90% the seal and 10% the insulation. They hold ice for 36 hours easily if you leave them shut. I have had ice in there 2 days after a trip. I would change the orientation on my next one. Originally I had it drawn where I would have two long boxes on the sides between the inner and outer stringers with bilge access in the center. I changed to the layout I have now. The only thing I don't like now is I wish my seating facing the rear was a little deeper and that was controlled by the hatch layout. No big deal but a tweak that I would have made.

My livewell is in the transom. I was going to do one above deck on the deck but never in the floor. I don't care for them in the floor personally.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:21 pm
by DAYTRIP
Missed the hatch and gutter question. Are you building a mold? Plenty I can share with you on that front. I think my son and I have built nearly 75 of them. Let me know what you are looking to do.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Yes I am going to do molds this time. I figure this will be something I will be doing into my retirement years so I might as well get some molds started.

I have toolable gelcoat, polyester resin, plenty of glass and mat and the high density msd. I’m planning on gutters with matching hatch covers.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:39 pm
by DAYTRIP
So I have always build a temporary mold in mdf that is finished with duratec. Then I build my part. You can get 2-5 off the temporary mold IF you build and prepare it correctly. 3-5 degrees of relief and well covered in pva. If I want more parts I build a production mold using one of my parts as the plug.

By far the biggest problem we ever have is the gel coat. 100% of the time the problem is that it is to thin then alligators. Not a big deal if you are painting or are ok with a post mold repair. The tough part with the gutters are the deep narrow spaces you are trying to spray into. Ideally I would make the gutter at 1.5 wide and 1.5 deep. Mine are 1.125 wide and 2.25 deep. Great for space , water capacity and strength but tougher to build. We have it down now but gel coating is always a challenge. Motto is more is better because repairs are a pain! The gasket face on ours is 3/4 down from the top which allows for a 3/8 core on the hatch and a 5/16 thick seal. I can send you a cross section of how I built the temporary mold if that helps.

These things are time consuming but definitely nice.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:54 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
got her back onto the trailer and moved into the shop. ready to rock and roll

Image

Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:49 pm
by Rickk
Nice work area 8)

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:32 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:51 am
by Eric1
Nice work. :D

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:49 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Have been laying glass this week. 10g resin and 20 yards 1708

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:44 am
by DAYTRIP
Nice work! What are you going to hang on that thing 3-350s! Pleanty of beef. One thing to consider though is the length of the cantilever (from stringers to top of engine clamping) on the engine clamping board. I did four layers there which based on my calcs(for what they are worth) would support a 7" cantilever not taking any glass into account.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:34 am
by Mbiggerstaff
4 layers of 3/4 plywood? Right now I have 2 with 2 layers of 1708 sandwiched in between.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:39 am
by DAYTRIP
That is what i did yes. Overall mine is 3-3/4” thick . It is conservative but I would not do less than 3 personally. The equation I found for converting hp to thrust gave me a load of 3000lbs for 500hp. I applied that conservatively to the connections and that’s how I came to 3 layers. Then I added another! Lot of $ hanging back there! Those skins in the middle don’t do much for you as they are on the neutral axis of the bending member. The ones that count are the outside ones. I think I did 8 skins of 1708.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:16 pm
by cape_fisherman
Agreed...the glass between laminations are adding more weight than doing anything positive.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:48 pm
by doug42190
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:10 pm Everything was completely rotten. Started cutting and kept going until I found good wood each way. Picked up some plywood yeaserday and ready ro replace when threat of rain passes.

This one is going to be a center console type. If you have ever seen an Invensible Boat that is what I am thinking with some things pulled from the True World that I owned. At this point it is fluid. Got a stringer and bulkhead mocked up today. Going to cut it in 3/4 pine plywood. Lot cheaper than mahagony if I don't have it right.
Mbiggerstaff
This is doug 42190 (Doug) from Wilmington NC. I am looking forward to watching your Bertram build. Did you do one for the True World too?
Thanks,
Doug

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:04 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
I bought the True World new. I did not have to do anything to it. I have been working on the shop over the past couple of weeks trying to get everything in its place and get some heat going. Now have a nice wood stove, solar panels for electricity, overhead trusses for lifting and dust collection. The last of the electrical will be done soon then i will have real lighting.

That is not to say that some progress has not been made on the boat. I have the bracket almost finished. I decided to finish it with a piece of 1/4" aluminum plating that will run all the way across the back of the bracket on the inside which will be bolted to the stringers. This will then be covered with 1/4" plywood and then glassed in place. The plywood is for aesthetics so the aluminum will not be seen.

Have also got the framework done for the cockpit flooring. Just need to glass it all in place.

I am in the process of reinforcing the cap both for strength and cosmetics. I have the bulkheads in place for the tanks and the sole going forward as well. I have been waiting for a roll of glass from US Composits as well as warmth in the shop before finalizing it all. Hopefully I can get this all done in the next week or so then roll it over and do the bottom before I get anymore weight in it. Will try to get some pictures as they speak better than words.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:35 pm
by Cody1771
do you mind me asking what the cost is of doing a wood pod like you are doing VS a bolt on aluminum pod? i know you mentioned in your first boat you didn't want to have 150 bolts running through your transom but i am still curious. I am weighing the cost benifit of doing a Pod on my much smaller boat like you are doing or having a pod designed and built out of aluminum. i sure like the asthetics of the fiberglass and wood one a lot more, looks like it is an OEM finish vs the very obvious bolt on ones.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:14 pm
by Fuzz
You can see that he has run stringers through the transom and out for the bracket. To me this is key. The weight of the bracket and motors are supported by the stringers. This makes the glassing of the bracket to the transom a little less vital. I personally would not just glass a bracket to the transom and be comfortable. I you can get a factory made bracket to fit your hull you can be pretty sure it will work. There is a risk to building your own and you will have a bunch of money hanging back there.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:23 pm
by Cody1771
Fuzz wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:14 pm You can see that he has run stringers through the transom and out for the bracket. To me this is key. The weight of the bracket and motors are supported by the stringers. This makes the glassing of the bracket to the transom a little less vital. I personally would not just glass a bracket to the transom and be comfortable. I you can get a factory made bracket to fit your hull you can be pretty sure it will work. There is a risk to building your own and you will have a bunch of money hanging back there.
It wouldn't be factory made, just done by a company that builds pod for a living, it would be custom since these boats are not very common. i'd be looking at $4000 for a pod like that to have a fabricator make it out of aluminum.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:32 pm
by Fuzz
I had PDR out of Seattle build me one for my Seasport. Cost was $3800 plus shipping. Around $5000 to me here for total cost. They did a really nice job and I would use them again. That being said on the boat I am messing with now I built my own much like Mbiggerstaff has done here. JM and BBC do not want to get involved with this kind of project as there is too much chance of failure. Workmanship quality would be huge and they have no way of controlling that or knowing if the rest of the boat is suitable for the project.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:36 pm
by Fuzz
I should have added that the quality of the welding for an aluminium bracket is huge too. If the people you want to use are good then no problem. Backyard bubba melting some metal is a whole different deal.

Did not mean to hijack your thread Mbiggerstaff :wink:

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:54 pm
by DAYTRIP
I did one similar to MIKE's. Cost was about 800-900.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:54 pm
by lawtoolguy
The bracket I built was around 1000. I would hate to guess how many hours were spent on it though. As Fuss stated the real strength is in the cantalever on the stringers. You may want to
look more at the length of your boat and how much effect hanging weight off the back will cause. I had allot more weight towards the front with the cabin on my walkaround.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:58 pm
by lawtoolguy
Bracket is looking nice so far MBiggerstaff.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:03 am
by Mbiggerstaff
For this project building a bracket was the only way. The transom on these old Bertrams is cardboard thin this bolting a custom aluminum bracket on it would be risking sending the engines to the bottom. I can't give you an exact cost of my bracket but the 3/4 plywood is o only $116 a sheet. Prob 4 or 5 sheets used plus the glass. Still waiting on the aluminum reinforcement but expecting 250 for that.

Finally got around to getting some pictures to share. I got her hung up yesterday so I can get to the bottom and start on it.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:08 am
by Jaysen
MBS, is it an illusion in pics 5&6 that the central stringers are on different planes?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:13 am
by Mbiggerstaff
it not an illusion. the port stringers are lower forward than the starboard ones. no biggy though. will fix when installing the deck.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:18 am
by lawtoolguy
Nice shop! Were starting our next house build out of ICF’S in April. Plan to pocket two steel I beams 12 ft apart for hoists.
Anything you recomend or wish you had done with your shop?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:42 am
by Mbiggerstaff
The bigger the better. Was going to be 50 long but added 10 feet at the last minute. Money well spent. That’s my only advice. My contractor was a boat builder in his early days and build his shop to build boats so I basically had him build the same thing for me.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:16 am
by Mbiggerstaff
and over she goes

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


started out with fumed silica and epoxy but ran out of silica so finished with faring compound, Going to reglass anyway
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:16 am
by DAYTRIP
What do you mean you are going to reglass mike? You are just doing a fill coat then you are going to add glass to the bottom? Looking good! You have me looking at another one!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:13 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Yes Jim. I am just going to put a layer of 1708 on the bottom to cover the gelcoat and prevent any more blistering. Im going to try to vacuum the glass down this time. I have all the materials so one good day of sanding and 2 of glassing and it should be ready for finish work.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:08 am
by doug42190
Mike, In your picture of flipping the hull, I see the large eye-bolt up front -- well done. I was wondering what you used to wrangle the transom. Any pictures? I am going to be flipping mine in the next few weeks and have been looking for ideas. Mine has a twin engine Armstrong bracket.
Thanks,
Doug

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:29 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I will ge stome pix of the transom but basically i took a 4' piece of 3" channel, drilled a hole in the middle, used another eye bolt and bolted that to my bracket . Might not work for you as you wouldn't want to drill 3 holes in your bracket. Go back and look in Daytrip's post. I believe he welded together a piect that he could bolt onto the bracket and use the existing holes for the engines. There is a picture where he is flipping his boat.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:53 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Sanding done, ready to lay some glass
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:09 pm
by Fuzz
Big glass job :!: Be interesting to see how this all works out.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:01 pm
by DAYTRIP
Holly mackerel! You sanded most of the filler off again. Looks good mike. My money is on it working out great.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:12 pm
by fallguy1000
moved to private message

impressive work Mike

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:02 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Almost ready to glass the bottom. Would have already done it but discovered thatI didn't have enough material.Here are some pix of the layout.

laid out the glass, next came the nylon peel pry, next the breather/bleeder and finally the stretch material.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

here is my transom flipping mount
Image

Did get the platform glassed/sanded and faired.
Image
Image

Hopefully more stretch will arrive before the weekend so i can have more pictures of the covered bottom

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:00 pm
by Fuzz
I do not want to be a party pooper here but there is no way I would use that eye bolt that way. They are very weak when side loaded. Something like 90% reduction in strength. You can buy a shouldered eye bolt that will rotate and is made to be side loaded. If you go that way it needed to be screwed all the way in.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:08 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Have a question for all. Is it OK to use polyester fairing compound on top of epoxy glass or epoxy fairing compound?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:35 am
by fallguy1000
No, everything I have read only allows the reverse.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:03 am
by Mbiggerstaff
me too. I ended up with a 5 gal bucket of poly compound that i was trying to use. guess i will find another use for it.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:47 pm
by DAYTRIP
I say no. I would not use it on the bottom in any case personally

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:52 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Man has it ever been cold here in eastern NC. 2 deg one morning and 3 the next with 6 inches of snow. Hard to get the shop warm enough to cure epoxy but finally got a break.

Image
Image
Image

Here is my vacuum pump
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:51 am
by DAYTRIP
Looks good mike! Did the vacuum pull the glass tight to the chines? You use any peel ply or just bag it?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:28 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I used peel pry and breather fabric. Pulled it off yesterday. There are a few loose places along the chines but not many. I will make cuts along the chines on the other side and top with some 6oz cloth and leave a little more slack in the stretch fabric.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:58 pm
by DAYTRIP
Mike, put som pleats in the bag at the locations of the chines. That will allow 6-12” to gather in those areas.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:50 pm
by narfi
Just curious, what is the additional cost in consumables for vacume bagging once you are setup?
peel ply, bleeder and bag are all consumables I assume?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:25 am
by Mbiggerstaff
all in it is about $18 per yard for film, release, breather and tape. Jim will add the pleats. Hope to get it done today.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:47 am
by fallguy1000
Start with the vac low enough to move the bag over the tough spots. I have to do the little Whaler same way, but using the 6oz.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:16 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
SIDE 2 DONE. WORKED MUCH BETTER WITH PLEATE ALONG CHINE. STILL A FEW SMALL PLACES TO REPAIR. ON TO THE FAIRING!


Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 pm
by DAYTRIP
Sure looks good from the photo. Nice work.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:24 am
by fallguy1000
How did it turn out Mike?

Lessons? I would have probably run my vac from the other side over media; did you get some penalty with the vac on the glass?

Your poly compound could be used for any moulds - just a thought.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:43 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
When I did the vacuum it was not against the glass. I had a layer of breather fabric and directly under each port there was a stack of about 6 layers of breather. This provided good distribution of the vacuum and a good result.

next time that i do this I will cut the glass along the chines. even with pleats, it did not pull up well and I had to grind out bad glass. Other than that, I was very happy with the end result.

Since the last post I have repaired the areas along the chines. This was followed by several heavy coats of spray fair. I played with this stuff a little on the last boat but decided to give it a real trial with this one. I used a 2.8 tip and thinned the first coat by 25% to make it thin enough to get down in all the small holes. This was followed by 2 coats that were thinned 10-15 %. I let it dry overnight and then started sanding. I played around a little but finally ended up using a quick light sand with 40 grit just to knock the top off then going back with 80 . This stuff sands much easier than any fairing compound which makes a long board not such a pain. I played around on the sides with using a putty knife to spread on unthinned compound. It when on easily, stayed in place and was easy to sand as well. All in all I was very happy with it. It filled the small holes well and provided a flat finished surface.

When I started sanding the bracket which I had faired with standard fairing compound it was still gummy on the sandpaper even though it had been on for a week. I have never encountered this before. I believe it was the last of a bucket but nothing else was unusual about it. I spread more of the same brand from a new bucket and it performed as expected. Well now I had a real mess. I scraped and sanded for 2 days until I got it all off and down to glass again. I refaired it again and haven't been able to get back to it. Any ideas or suggestions?

Except for the bracket I am ready to spray super build primer. Will follow that with a 120 sand and then finish primer. Here are a few visuals





Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:11 pm
by DAYTRIP
Nice mike! Is it alexseal? Looks great. Nice progress. Not sure there is a reason other than ratio. I find the smaller the batch I do the greater risk of this happening.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:00 am
by Mbiggerstaff
High Build primer on and sanded. Will need to fair a few places and then finish primer. Trying to decide if I should do the sides or wait until topside construction is done. Would be easy now if I could avoid messing up.
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:03 am
by Browndog
Looking really good!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:33 am
by Jeff
Nice work Mbiggerstaff!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:00 pm
by Fuzz
Nice work. I like you stool to help stay on the boat when up there.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:08 am
by Mbiggerstaff
[youtube][/youtube]Got 3 coats of finish primer on yesterday.

I am going to use Pettite Vivid in white on the bottom. Has anyone ever sprayed this or is a roller/brush only product.

Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am
by Jeff
Very well done Mbiggerstaff!! Give our builders a chance to respond on Pettit. We sell Pettit often so I am sure you will get a good response!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:10 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Got the bottom painted yesterday. I thinned the Pettit about 20%. It sprayed fine with a 2.4 nozzle. Placed a heater underneath the boat and was able to recoat in about 2 hours. will pull off the paper and tape tomorrow and do the sides. will have some pictures then.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:30 am
by DAYTRIP
Are you doing anti fouling on this one mike? I am itching to cut the transom off mine but haven’t yet

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:35 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Yes Jim I did Pettit Vivid anti fouling paint in white. Finished the hull on Saturday and pulled the paper today. Will let it sit a week and then roll her over. I'm looking forward to your transom coming off too!

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:43 pm
by Jeff
Really nice work!!!!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:12 pm
by DAYTRIP
Wow! Hull sides too. You are the man. Where is your other 28? You still have it or did you sell it mike?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:57 pm
by Fuzz
Dang that looks NICE :!:

What paint did you use on the sides? And did you spray it?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:13 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
I still have the first one. Cant be without a boat! I sprayed the sides with Alexseal top coat. I think 4 coats.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:08 am
by fallguy1000
Mike - what high build primer did you use? It looks white? I am having trouble with awlgrip 545, and then did you spray the high build? thanks

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:28 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
I use all Alexseal products. I have been very happy with them so far. Yes the high build is white but it also comes in a yellow I think. I spray everything that I can including the spray fair and high build

Finally got a chance to get back to the boat after a few weeks of work. Got it flipped back over today. Used 4 chain falls and 30' straps. It went really well. No issues at all.

Have fuel tank on hand and will get it installed and build around it.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:15 pm
by Rickk
Nice!! The hull looks great. Looking forward to watching (and cheering) the rest of the build.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:22 am
by Fuzz
Really nice looking hull and what looked like a smooth flip. Love what you guys are doing with these old hulls.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:24 am
by cape man
Nice fuel tank! How many gallons?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:19 am
by DAYTRIP
Excellent work mike! I think alexseal is great to work with. I think I shared it but in case I didn’t when I sprayed mine I actually mixed 1:1:1 on the finish coat. It really flowed nicely. That tank is HUGE. Get some weight in there!

Congrats man.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:56 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Need some advice. Got the boat back on the trailer and the tank positioned. Question is. Is it too far forward for 300 gallons of fuel. Jim, I know you added weight forward. What do you think. I also have a pix of my aluminum motor mount reinforcement.

Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:24 pm
by Jeff
Great flip!!!! Really well done!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:34 am
by DAYTRIP
Hey mike, I would keep it centered over the point 10’ forward of the transom. I will look at my balance spreadsheet and update. Where are you putting it currently?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:11 am
by DAYTRIP
So I calculated my balance which would be represented by the pic below. Accounting for the tower and console weights as well as live wells and water I have a CG very close to 6.75’ in front of the transom. If I assumed similar conditions for yours with 300 gallons centered 12’ forward your CG is about 9” forward of mine. Need to talk through your plan a bit to verify locations and weights. That is at rest. My concern is that my CG shifts back a little when running because I empty 2/3 the water in my ballast tanks. The shift appears to only be about 3-6” and I will tell you it feels a lot different in term of handling.


Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:13 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
My live well is going to be at the transom and the fish box centerline in the cockpit. Don’t think I’m going to have fresh water as I have never really used it anyway. Not going to have any superstructure like you do. Also , my bracket is 36” back not 30 .

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:42 pm
by DAYTRIP
I will post a pic of my spreadsheet mike and you can comment. I have batteries, and other misc fixed items in there. You going to have a hardtop/tee top?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:28 pm
by DAYTRIP
So here is how I am figuring things Mike. Upper left is the at rest condition. Everything is reference off transom. The upper right is what my does while running. I empty 2/3 of the ballast is the only change represented here. You can see that moves the CG back (6.978-6.4615) = about .5 ft or 6". Started filling in some of your info but you can tell me the right or wrong parts. At rest I actually have a bit more weight forward. Running I have a bit less. Come up with some values and we can plug it in. Good reference to guess from :doh: This makes a lot of assumptions like your boat and mine are identical weight wise with the exception of the items below. I should add a line for the increased buoyancy for the bracket. also you are building yours a liitle diffently than I did so that will drive some inaccuracies. I make no guarantees that this is right but it is my thought process.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:24 pm
by DAYTRIP
Hold the phone! I accounted for the brackets on our boats. This makes a huge difference. so at rest my CG is 8.167" forward of the transom which is actually what I targeted early on. When I am running it shift way back to 6.46' from the transom because the bracket doesn't add buoyance nor lift! On your set up above the CG is at 8.383' forward with the bracket you have assuming the boat sits where mine is at. Not bad at rest.When you are running it shifts back to 6.662'. That is slightly in front of mine. Get those other weights and locations figure and we will check it out. What do you think?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:07 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Work goes on. Have the cockpit just about complete and ready to epoxy all the parts in place. Got the tank completely installed and working my way forward. My daughter and I are at the Charleston boat show selling wahoo lures so I have spent some time looking at boats to nail down my plans for helm and console.

Hard to see in detail but for the hatch gutters I used 1 1/2" cusa and routed a channel 1"wide and 1 1/4" deep. the hatch will fit over the remaining 1/2" rim of cusa. Once I get it all secured I will start making hatches.

Plans for the transom box is live well in the center and battery boxes on each side with cushions on top

Unfortunately i stumbled into a 25' carolina boat that is 80% complete that I could not pass up. Now I have 2 boats in the shop to work on. Will post pix of new project when i have a chance.


here are a few pix from a week ago. Have made some progress since then.


Image

Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:44 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I have been plugging along. Here are some updated pix.
Image
Image
Image

I am building seats, and helm off boat and will install later. The helm is in 2 parts.
Image
Image
Image

Here is the other project that I am woking on
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:09 am
by OrangeQuest
WOW! 8O

That's a lot of boat...boats!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:14 am
by fallguy1000
Is that a Mertens CS?

Not sure how you shaped the bow flare.

How's the weather and skeeters your way?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:10 am
by DAYTRIP
I was thinking about your project the other day Mike. Looks good! You are cranking along. She is going to be awesome. Every time I used mine I love it more. Weight down low is my only do over. I thought of adding a steel rod on the centerline on the next. 1000 lbs or so to lowered the cg and waterline. I would offer a thought on your seat. Tilt the backrest back 12-15 degress and slope the seat back 7-10. It allows you to stay in it when running in any chop. Also don’t forget the cushions will consume 3” of depth. I forgot that part and wish I had a little more seat depth. I modeled my seat after an aderondike chair. All about comfort!

Looks really good!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:41 pm
by Fuzz
Man you are a serious boat builder :!:
If you have time catch us up on the Bertram and tell us about the other project also :D

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:51 pm
by Jeff
Mbiggerstaff, great progress and beautiful work!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:21 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Thanks for the advice on the seat Jim. I had planned on leaning the backreast but will also add a slope to the seat.

The story on the Carolina boat goes like this. It is a classic downeast built plank over frame made in harkens island. It is 25’ and will be powered by a Cummings 4bt with a jackshaft to a merc bravo duo prop outdrive. The original owner bought the hull and finished it to its present state but just didn’t have time to finish it. My plan is to complete it and sell it. It will be a beautiful boat but it is a little too small for my needs

My completed Bertram is great. I have reproped it and it now cruses at 24kts at 75% power. The present engine was slow to spin up which the Yanmar is know for. I added a nitrous oxide system to it this summer. Now when I hit the throttle and black smoke starts pouring out, I hit the N2O and it shoots off like a rocket. It is an amazing change

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:15 am
by Marshall Moser
Who built the hull on Harker's Island? Willis Boat Works is about the only one left on the island.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:14 am
by cape_fisherman
Marshall Moser wrote: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:15 am Who built the hull on Harker's Island? Willis Boat Works is about the only one left on the island.
Willis is far from the only one left on the island, thank God. I'm also curious as to who designed that hull.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:29 pm
by DAYTRIP
I never knew you could run nitrous on a Diesel. So you cruise faster on one engine then the original with two inboards. Very cool!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:56 pm
by fallguy1000
So, can I add a shot of nitrous to my Yamaha F70s and put my semi-planing cat into full planing mode?

jk, but the wine made me ask!

Cool.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:02 am
by Mbiggerstaff
The carolina boat was built by Billy Dupree of Outer Banks Boatworks.

I had never heard of nitrous on a boat either but after some research discovered that is is used by a lot of diesel truckers and diesel hot rodders. It only works if you have excess fuel that is leaving the engine unburned. I throttle down, hit the nitrous and as soon as it get to full boost I turn it off. its maybe 3-5 seconds worth.

I got the entire deck fitted and a lot of sanding below decks done over the weekend. Ready to see if my measurements for the helm/cabin and seats are accurate. Hope to get them in the boat over the next couple of days.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:09 pm
by swglenn
Have you looked into propane injection on diesel engines? There are several companies offering itfor diesel cars and trucks. Some use it for increased pulling power and others for increased mileage.I don't own any diesels except my lawn tractor and have no direct knowledge of its use.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:06 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I did look into propane as well but decided to try nitrous first. Decided to try the less explosive option

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:12 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Got the helm in the boat yesterday

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:21 am
by Jeff
Really well done!! She is going to be a beauty!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:51 am
by DAYTRIP
Looks great mike! Nice job. You are going to love that baby.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:36 am
by piperdown
No offense intended but, does anyone else think that looks like a piano? Bit of fishing, little music... :D

Been following your build since before I joined. Looks great!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:43 am
by pee wee
piperdown wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:36 am No offense intended but, does anyone else think that looks like a piano? Bit of fishing, little music... :D

Been following your build since before I joined. Looks great!
Not me, I thought it looked like a pipe organ console! :D

I agree that it is looking great, though!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:03 pm
by cape_fisherman
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:02 am The carolina boat was built by Billy Dupree of Outer Banks Boatworks.


I know Mr. Billy. Drive by his house every day on my 3 minute commute to work. That'll be a good hull when you're done with it.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:47 pm
by fallguy1000
Biggerstaff, Beethoven of the Bertrams.

It won't look a bit like a piano once he dolls it up with everything.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:38 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Spent last week finishing my storage boxes and working on helm parts. Got the two parts of the helm glued together and started glassing it yesterday. The seat part is almost ready to be glassed as well. I ended up building a cooler to go between the helm chairs and built it into the structure. Will post some pictures of that soon

Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:59 pm
by Fuzz
Very nice work :!:
I really enjoy projects like this :D

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:05 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Got some glass work done yesterday

Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:47 am
by Eric1
Keep at it! It's looking great!!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:50 am
by Mbiggerstaff
The glass work continues but had to take some time off boat work to go fishing.

Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:57 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Do not have any pictures tonight just an update. Flow was bearing down on us and I needed the trailer to get my first project off the lift at the coast and safe at home. In order to do that I had to clear out the shop. Since I was moving things with chain falls I went ahead and put the console and seat in the boat. Glassed them in while the storm was raging. Started working on supports for the hard top. Plan to build the hardtop into the boat rather than using aluminum. Also doing a few things to the 1st boat. Decided to go after a little more horsepower since I up sized the props and am adding a propane system. Had to tap into the freshwater cooling side of the engine to get hot water to the regulator to vaporize the LP adequately. Also had to build a box to hold 2 40lb propane tanks as I did not want them rolling around offshore. It is a really neat system. The propane servo doesn’t open until I get enough boost generated and enough vacuum thru the turbo. With these 2 things there is no way for propane to flow unless the engine is under load. The total flow of propane is adjustable but should be about 1lb per 10 gallons for an additional 50-100 hp. I normally burn about 60 gallons per trip so it should work out about right. I’m also going to install a larger thru Hull for the engine th get more sea water and see if it won’t run a little cooler. Also thinking about removing the Bertram windshield and using strata glass instead. There is so much metal in the windshield that it seems like I’m always looking around a crossmember to see something. I thought I had it right but it should have been 6” higher. Will try and get some pictures uploaded soon

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:11 am
by Fuzz
Yes please on the pictures. You have one heck of a project there.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:35 am
by topwater
Nitrous and propane ....awesome 8O

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:34 pm
by Fuzz
You are doing this for a little more HP to get the boat out of the hole? Are you still running the Yanmar 370 in it?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:35 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
It'd been a while since my last post. The recovery from Florence is almost complete and I have been able to get back to work on the boat a little. Most of the major construction is done now it is time to glass, fair, sand and then do it all again. Here are some pix from today.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:07 pm
by DAYTRIP
Looks great mike! Moving along. Hope you made out ok in the storm.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:31 am
by Fuzz
Very nice looking! Both you and Daytrip sure turn those old Bertram's into works of art. It is a good thing for me that there are no old hulls around here just laying about :roll:

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:06 am
by Jeff
Mbiggerstaff, great progress and like others said, hope you did OK with the storm!!! By the way, are you working on two boats? Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:53 am
by Mbiggerstaff
yes Jeff. The other is a 26 Carolina Boat.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:25 am
by fallguy1000
Are you gonna glass those deck/gunwhale tops?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:19 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Yes. Got the edges routed yesterday. Will get to that after Christmas

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:08 pm
by fallguy1000
What weight glass Mike? Just curious.

Gonna guess 10 oz woven or 12 oz biax.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:31 am
by Mbiggerstaff
1708 prob 2 layers

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:09 am
by Jeff
Both beautiful boats!! Happy holidays, Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:47 am
by fallguy1000
You really don't fool around on these do you Mike?

How do you plan to finish the glass inside? Can you wrap it up and in somehow?

The forward coaming..is thst a steam bent something?

There is a nice looking moppie in Hartford, Conn on clist. I want to buy it, but the wife would get a gun permit.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:34 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I have a 1” radius so the glass will lay down nicely. I have already done under the gunnels. Cut strips of glass in about 2 ft sections, got it good and wet and applied. Very messy. Had to wash my hair with acetone! The green material is 1/4 “ dicinycell. It is scored so it makes the turn easily. Have already glassed the back and sprayed with spray fair.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:41 am
by OrangeQuest
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:34 am Cut strips of glass in about 2 ft sections, got it good and wet and applied. Very messy. Had to wash my hair with acetone!
Maybe something from a scuba shop for next time!
https://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-28/Hoo ... ood&gclid=

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:59 pm
by fallguy1000
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:34 am I have a 1” radius so the glass will lay down nicely. I have already done under the gunnels. Cut strips of glass in about 2 ft sections, got it good and wet and applied. Very messy. Had to wash my hair with acetone! The green material is 1/4 “ dicinycell. It is scored so it makes the turn easily. Have already glassed the back and sprayed with spray fair.
Nice.

I wear plastic shower caps in my shop. A lot.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:21 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Saturday was a glassing day. Almost got all of it done but ran out of resin. Have a friend who works at one of the big boat builders in Wancheese. He shared with me how they lay their glass so I gave it a try. They mix Carbocil with their epoxy and then trowel it on. The glass goes on next. They then use a plastic trowel and scrape any excess paste out from beneath the glass. this is followed by brushing on epoxy followed by another troweling to remove excess. I had some release film that I then applied on top of that on part of it to see how it worked. I used extra slow harder to give myself plenty of time. End result. Its a really nice way to do it. Don't have to contend with a bunch of bubbles under the glass or excess epoxy dripping everywhere. The part that I covered with the release film came out really nice. Smooth and ready for spray fair. The other will require some sanding.
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:24 am
by pee wee
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:21 am They mix Cabocil with their epoxy and then trowel it on. The glass goes on next. They then use a plastic trowel and scrape any excess paste out from beneath the glass. this is followed by brushing on epoxy followed by another troweling to remove excess. I had some release film that I then applied on top of that on part of it to see how it worked. I used extra slow harder to give myself plenty of time. End result. Its a really nice way to do it. Don't have to contend with a bunch of bubbles under the glass or excess epoxy dripping everywhere. The part that I covered with the release film came out really nice. Smooth and ready for spray fair. The other will require some sanding.
Interesting, sounds worth a try! What kind of release film were you using, peel ply?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:24 am
by Mbiggerstaff
yes, peel pry

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:54 pm
by fallguy1000
I like to use a thixo hot coat as well. Especially for any deviations in the surface.

It works super well at holding glass on vertical or upside down surfaces as well; especially if the coating begins to cure and get tacky. Although wetout is generally done away on a flat. These types of jobs are tuff.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:31 pm
by DAYTRIP
Great tip mike. I will have to give that a try.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:41 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Got the hard top started and some of the first step fairing done yesterday.
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:41 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Got the hard top started and some of the first step fairing done yesterday.
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:49 pm
by Fuzz
Man you do nice work :!: That girl is going to be a beauty when done :wink:

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:56 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Got the hard top laid up today. 3 layers of 1708 on top. Vacuum pump running. Pix tomorrow

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:13 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Pix as promised. Got a little work done on the window yesterday. Planning on real glass. There will be a removable panel over the console to allow access to wiring for radar, ect.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:41 am
by TRC886
Awesome work, Mike :!: I think you should be upgraded to "Expert" :idea: Jeff, are you listening :?:

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:25 am
by DAYTRIP
Nice job man. Hardtop looks great!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:37 pm
by cape_fisherman
Hardtop going to have any crown to it?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:26 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
No crown on this one. Did that with last boat. Trying something different

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:37 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Well I have gone and done it again. Found another project. Will create new thread titled Stratos Restoration
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:09 pm
by Fuzz
You just can't help yourself.......................and I like it :lol:

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:28 am
by devinfox
“They mix Carbocil with their epoxy and then trowel it on. The glass goes on next. They then use a plastic trowel and scrape any excess paste out from beneath the glass. this is followed by brushing on epoxy followed by another troweling to remove excess. I had some release film that I then applied on top of that on part of it to see how it worked. I used extra slow harder to give myself plenty of time.”

If you don’t mind clarifying, this sounds like a nice way to do it. You spread thickened epoxy with a trowel then lay dry glass in it? Then scrape excess paste out from underneath? I am having a hard time picturing unless you mean cleaning up squeeze out from the edges. Then you wet out cloth with pure epoxy/no filler? Thank you!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:10 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Correct on the glass application. The brush on epoxy is not thickened. I have done a lot more since the original post and the more I do the more I like it.

It rained all weekend in Greenville. Forced me to work in the shop all weekend. What a shame.

I think I have all the glass laid and the first round of fairing and sanding done. I have started using Adtech ProSeal EZ-15 as the first step in fairing. I have found it to be great stuff. I have played around with mixing different things with it to thicken it up so it is not so thin and runny. Carbosil and Glass Bubbles both work well and make the adtech easier to sand. This stuff is so nice because it is thin enough to fill without leaving micro holes like standard faring compounds do and it can be applied to unsanded glass if applied within 24 hours. If you look at the pix that is why everything is white. If you give it a try, don't wait too long to sand because it get real hard real fast. I try to sand the next day. Also got the hard top lifted up temporarily


Image

Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:35 am
by piperdown
What's the lamination schedule for the blue foam or are those just templates?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:43 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
templates

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:15 pm
by DAYTRIP
You have a ton of fairing completed mike! Nice work. Moving along. What power you doing on this one?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:03 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Planning on twin 250/300s. Your experience provided that choice. If you hear of a good set please send them my way

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:17 pm
by cape_fisherman
What are the plans for that Stratos? Looks like it'd make a great inshore bay boat. It'd be cool to pull the cap (and liner I'm guessing). Go back with Carolina-style covering boards & floor to make it a three-piece hull. That would lower the freeboard to more of a bay boat level. Put a raised deck up front and leave the cockpit open.

Anyway...what are YOUR plans...LoL

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:27 am
by Mbiggerstaff
I would be a great inshore boat. What do you mean by Carolina style covering boards?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:36 am
by cape_fisherman
I just mean to build simple wood covering boards like they would on a Carolina boat. In essence, get rid of the Stratos liner/cap...unless it's structural.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:23 am
by TRC886
Mike,
Have you considered adding water misters under the hardtop? I was talking to a friend on Friday, who said he's been offshore when the sun was really bearing down. The boat had a freshwater tank with a couple of misting nozzles under the top. That water mist made a world of difference on the temperature inside the boat!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:12 pm
by fallguy1000
cape_fisherman wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:36 am I just mean to build simple wood covering boards like they would on a Carolina boat. In essence, get rid of the Stratos liner/cap...unless it's structural.
The cap on boats is structural.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:15 pm
by fallguy1000
TRC886 wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:23 am Mike,
Have you considered adding water misters under the hardtop? I was talking to a friend on Friday, who said he's been offshore when the sun was really bearing down. The boat had a freshwater tank with a couple of misting nozzles under the top. That water mist made a world of difference on the temperature inside the boat!
Sounds like a really great idea for a warm weather boat.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:49 am
by Mbiggerstaff
The Work has been progressing slowly. Spring yard work and doing some needed updates on the first Bertram. Here are some pictures. Almost have the bottom of the hardtop ready to mount. One more round oh high build primer and sanding and I will mount it. Wanted to do as muncher's work as possible on it off the boat to avoid sanding upside-down. Have been fairing and sanding and fairing and sanding on the hull. You all know how that goes. I I didn't want it to look good it would be easier but I wouldn't be happy. I think I'm almost ready to put some spray fair on it and see how much more fairing i will need.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:23 am
by fallguy1000
What is spray fair please and thanks?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:45 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Spray fair is something I discovered on my last boat. It is a 2 part epoxy fairing compound that is thin enough to spray thru a 2.2 tip. It fills well and is easy to sand. I use it to get a smooth surface and fill small holes. once i sand it it is easy to see the low spots that need a more aggressive fairing with a conventional compound. I have even thickened it with silica or glass bubbles and put it on with a spreader. it is made by Alexseal. I recently purchased a Hutchins 17" orbital file sander. This thing works great for getting a flat and smooth surface but it is an air hog. I had to add a second compressor to use it continuously but it was well worth the money

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:51 am
by piperdown
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 10:45 am Spray fair is something I discovered on my last boat. It is a 2 part epoxy fairing compound that is thin enough to spray thru a 2.2 tip. It fills well and is easy to sand. I use it to get a smooth surface and fill small holes. once i sand it it is easy to see the low spots that need a more aggressive fairing with a conventional compound. I have even thickened it with silica or glass bubbles and put it on with a spreader. it is made by Alexseal. I recently purchased a Hutchins 17" orbital file sander. This thing works great for getting a flat and smooth surface but it is an air hog. I had to add a second compressor to use it continuously but it was well worth the money
Is this the stuff? https://www.alexseal.com/exterior/high- ... y-fair-328

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 1:58 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Thats it

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:58 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Progress continues. Top is on and first round of spray fair applied

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 am
by narfi
Very nice.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:30 pm
by DAYTRIP
Nice mike! Looking good my man

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:16 pm
by Fuzz
You do some outstanding work for sure.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:26 pm
by Bogieman
That is one neat looking boat! Very nice

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:36 pm
by fallguy1000
Follow up questions on spray fair...

Mil thickness?

If you had to choose between a neat coat on slightly sanded through glass and spray fair which would it be.

Glass on foam core that is...

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:31 am
by tcason
Maybe a real dumb question - Did you spray the spray fair or roll it?

from the pictures it looks like you rolled it on........................

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:36 am
by Mbiggerstaff
If I go thru the glass while sanding I patch with a piece of light glass if it is on wood. On foam I put on some epoxy and move on if it it not in a high traffic critical area. If so I patch with a piece of light glass,

I actually brushed this on. I have tried rolling but found brushing works better as you can work it into the small holes better. I don’t know how thick it is . I put it on heavy as most of it will be sanded off anyway. This is just a filler for small irregularities and to identify where additional fairing will be required. I use it because it is so easy to sand and thin enough to fill small holes.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:43 pm
by fallguy1000
tcason wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:31 am Maybe a real dumb question - Did you spray the spray fair or roll it?

from the pictures it looks like you rolled it on........................
Thanks for asking; I assumed you HAD to spray it!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:05 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Well after a long hiatus I am back at it. Need to get this one finished so I can start my next one. Spent the last last 2 day spraying high build primer. Put a total of 8 mixed gallons on it. The first day I used my conventional stuff. Decided I need to step up my game and brought out the big guns. Now for the sanding. Image

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:06 pm
by Jeff
Good to hear from you and nice progress!!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:14 pm
by TomW1
Beautiful rebuld.

Tom

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:42 am
by Fuzz
Me likey a lot! Beautiful work :D

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:03 pm
by Rickk
Very nice work. Looks great.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:29 pm
by DAYTRIP
Wow! Looks great Mike. I wondered if you gave up posting! Great layout. What you contemplating for power?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:54 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Going to go with a pair of 300s

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:34 am
by fallguy1000
How do those in sole hatches seal?

The boat looks great.

I am asking because I came up with a way I think will work, but am guessing you know. My seals are on the gutter landing up high, but count on some compression.

Awlgrip HB? Or is that sprayfair 328?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:24 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Gaskets in lids with compression latches.

Alexseal HB

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:45 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Sanding,sanding, sanding

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:19 am
by fallguy1000
Yes, I know the drill. I mean sander.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:13 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Finally finished first round of sanding. Going back with another round of fairing compound. If the cold snowyImage weather keeps up I may actually get some work done!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:53 pm
by Fuzz
Looks like you have had some serous bonding time with your sander :D

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:15 pm
by cape man
That's a LOT of sanding right there!!!!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:19 pm
by Jeff
Nice work!!!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:11 am
by DAYTRIP
Looking good Mike. Glad you are still chugging away on it! Jim

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:27 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Thanks Jim. How goes your second one?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 8:19 am
by DAYTRIP
Just saw this sorry. It is slow going. Hull is faired, console built, interior built with exception of seating. Need to fair interior. Slowed down due to engine availability. No rush to have it sit without power. My son and I are also building a lot of parts for others so that takes away spare time for me as well.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:57 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Finally finished sanding. Have started finish primer. Applied in console first and going to work my way out. Finished sanding it today. Was talking to fellow boat builder yesterday and asked him about application of textured finish paint. I have been experimenting with adding glass beads to topcoat and then rolling it on with a roller that I have used for nonskid. It actually looks pretty good. Paul said he has been using a urethane product called Raptor with good results. It’s the stuff that they spray in pickup beds. Thought I would give it a try down in the console. Looking for something that will hide some of the small defects in the not too visible places like under gunnels, bilge, ect. Any experience with this product?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:02 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Image

Might be hard to really see but this is down below

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:48 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Image

Finish primer continues. Doing it a piece at a time

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:03 am
by Fuzz
You are sure doing some nice work there. I am sure it takes a lot of time but man it is pretty :D

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:10 am
by Jeff
Fully agree with Fuzz!!!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:30 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Wow!! It's been almost a year since i have posted. Life happens and that often seems to slow things down.

Work on the second boat has continued very slowly but surely. Since my last post there have been several more rounds of primer, sanding, primer... You know the drill. Finally finished with all that and ready to make some noticeable progress.

I started with some of the below deck areas trying a new technique that is being used in some of the Wancheese boatyards. Rather than trying to get everything perfect before painting, they are using a textured spray on finish. After some discussion with some people in the know and a little experimentation I have a receipt that gives a good look and is easy to apply. It uses spray on bed liner. I bought the first kit on amazon and it included the 2 part product, a tint and a spray gun. The product is a little soft even after it dries. The cure for this is to mix the product with the epoxy topcoat that you are planning on using. So i mix the can of product and the harder, mix the topcoat with the converter and mix the two in a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio. I then thinned that with epoxy topcoat reducer by 10 percent. I did not use the tint that came with the bed liner kit. I tried using the gun that came in the bed liner kit but was not impressed with the result and could not spray upside down. I ended up using my HVLP 3M system with the disposable tips and a paint pot. I used the 1.8 tip which is the biggest that they offer. I played with the paint pot pressure and ended up at 12 and then adjusted the output from the gun to get a splatter. At first i used 3 coats to get good coverage. After that I sprayed one coat of topcoat and 2 coats of the bed liner mixture. I came out really nice. A textured finish that is very hard when it cures. I do not have any pictures of it to post but will try to get some that show the effect. I plan on using it on the gunnels. I think it will be too slick to use in the nonskid areas but may add some nonslip and see how that works.

With that done I have moved on to topcoat. Started with the hull. I untaped last night and got the gunnels taped and papered. Will get to that early next week if plans go as hoped. As you can see i created a paint booth in my shop. That was a significant time investment. My neighbor had a couple of huge pine trees felled. I got the logs and milled them with my chain saw mill into 2 x 4s so i did not have to buy a bunch of very expensive lumber.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:52 am
by fallguy1000
It looks good, but the transom wasn't painted same color, or progress pic?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:59 am
by Mbiggerstaff
The pix were out of order, now in order.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:10 pm
by fallguy1000
You do such great work. Are you using positive fresh air mask or just respirator?

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:10 am
by Mbiggerstaff
For open spaces like hull I use just respirator. For enclosed spaces I use positive pressure. With hvlp it not as bad as it used to be in the old days

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:13 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:10 am For open spaces like hull I use just respirator. For enclosed spaces I use positive pressure. With hvlp it is not as bad as it used to be in the old days

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:14 pm
by Mbiggerstaff
Mbiggerstaff wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:10 am For open spaces like hull I use just respirator. For enclosed spaces I use positive pressure. With hvlp it is not as bad as it used to be in the old days

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:00 am
by Mbiggerstaff
got the gunnels done on Friday. I included a pix of the textured paint. Maybe you can make it out.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:10 pm
by TomW1
Nice! Non-skid looks good. Tom

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:18 am
by Mbiggerstaff
got more painting done

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:11 am
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:58 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Painting all done and rigging started. Decided to put a jack plate on it.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 6:11 am
by Rickk
Wow

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:19 am
by pee wee
Rickk wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 6:11 amWow
It's a fact that on this forum (probably all forums) the majority of people just look and don't comment. Wow! is an appropriate comment. :D 8)

You do good work!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:00 pm
by Fuzz
Yes Sir! That is some mighty fine work right there. You and Daytrip turn those old Bertrams into works of art.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:02 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Here she is. Ready for sea trial.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:03 am
by Jeff
Beautiful!!! Congratulations!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 2:09 pm
by Fuzz
Jeff wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:03 am Beautiful!!! Congratulations!! Jeff
X10! That is just flat out amazing work! Please let us know how she runs :D

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:30 pm
by narfi
Beautiful!!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:52 pm
by TomW1
Very nicely done. Tom

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:46 am
by Mbiggerstaff
Sea trial yesterday! She performed perfectly. Glad I decided to add jackplate. played with it and got it tuned in. 700 hp makes her fly. 45 knots top end. Could not be happier.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:17 am
by narfi
Nice! Congratulations!!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:23 am
by pee wee
Congratulations! Glad to hear it runs great.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:06 am
by Jeff
Beautiful, congratulations!!! Jeff

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:24 pm
by TomW1
Very nice. for those of us who think in mph that is nearly 52mph. Tom

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:01 pm
by lelandtampa
Damn son! Epic.

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:53 am
by cape man
Another masterpiece! And a fast one as well!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:05 pm
by mhd
Beautiful looking boat - congratulations!

Re: 28 Bertram Restoration Boat 2

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:19 am
by Fuzz
Dang that is fast! Does it track good or tend to get a little touchy at that speed?