Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:18 pm**

Hi All
I am probably going to pull the go lever on a new FS-17 Kit.
Had a very tough couple of years because my back failed in a major way resulting in major surgery.
Ultimately I gave away my original FS-17 to my brother. Regret that now that I am feeling better.
End result, I still need a boat.
FS17 is very good and while I would have liked the FS-19 just not enough space in the shed. 8 foot wide boat will not work in an 8 foot wide shed with 7 foot door.
Has anyone done a tiller version and if so what size motor did you use?
I want to keep the layout simple as possible. No center console maybe a small side console. Nothing under the deck. Simple.

Regards
Rover1

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:22 pm**

Rover1, welcome back and glad you are better and ready to get in a boat again!! I am sure FS17 have been built and used tillers but I do not know of one built in the last five years. Give the guys here an opportunity to respond!! Again, welcome back!!! Jeff

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:30 pm**

I believe JM has posted about one built light with a tiller 30hp. If memory is correct 30hp worked just fine as long as the boat was keep light. Pretty hard to get much more simple than that.

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:35 pm**

Jeff there was one built shortly after the plans came out. I don't remember who built it. Check with Jacques on the max HP for a tiller steer, as it will be less than a console steer. Fuzz you beat me to it.

Tom

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:46 pm**

Tom1, great to hear from you. I had just asked Eric if he had heard from you lately!!! Jeff

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:42 pm**

Thought about buying a used boat. That did not last long. She Who Must be Obeyed said that building one would aid in my recovery from the back surgery....!!
Anyway, I had a Tohatsu 50 the last time and Just priced a Suziki 40 with tiller. Worth the difference in price? My experience with the dealer of the Tohatsu was positive but I think the owner has a bad case of High blood pressure that is untreated. Turned me off the shop as a result.
Opinions on the Suzuki, Mercuries, Yamahas and Tohatsu Engine? My plan is Suzuki but not locked in. Closest dealer.

Next I intend to fully glass the outside and inside, mostly. Plans do not seem to indicate glassing the sides is not needed. If I can get away without on the inside I will. The outside and deck take a lot of abuse.
Plan to install gunwales 6" wide should be enough. These will also be glassed.
Anything that is not specifically glassed in the plans will be done with 6oz.
Where can I find, or what are the best options for a live well? Plumbing Layout. Best bang for the buck fish finder/GPS, Should also be capable of side scan. Separate units may be acceptable
Starting to move....slowly

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:33 pm**

I have a brand new tiller kit for a Mercury in that size range if you find a good deal on one without a tiller.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:50 pm**

There's an FS17 out there built heavy with a 30hp remote. Got 25mph.

https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... r&start=30

Posted: **Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:33 pm**

https://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/mer ... f?u=orhjei

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:38 am**

THanks Narfi,
I will keep this in mind. Not locked into any brand yet. 30HP is likely to be enough for me. I had a Tohatsu 50hp
on the original boat. Never struggled going anywhere.
Rover1

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:36 am**

Thanks everybody, you answered all questions or almost.

The USCG calculations give max. 40 HP for tiller steering. You can use more if you want, it is not illegal but why if you are happy with a 30? That boat will be fine with a 25 HP anyway.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:30 am**

Thanks Jaques,
Not tied into any HP yet. May yet do remote steering even on a smaller HP outboard.
Let me start the boat things can change overnight.
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:42 am**

Spoke with Jeff, Kit and supplies are now ordered!
Picking up Parts for strong back today.
the honey do list may be suffering in the near future.
Yard work is progressing slowly and needs top be complete before I start the boat work.
That's what happens when you are in agony for 4-5 years. Basement also needs cleaning.
Been checking motor prices. They have gone up in the last 10 years.
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:27 pm**

Rover1, Yes, your order will ship today!! Thank you for the business!!! And YES, motors have increased very much in the last 10 years!! Jeff

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:09 pm**

Marine Ball valve, verry expensive vs ball valve from Hardware store.
I was pricing some of the expected cost today and nearly dropped to the floor at the price for a simple ball valve. There was about a $40 dollar difference from the family business to the Marine store. Never understood why the stuff titled "Marine should be so different in price.
The boat kit is on it's way! I actually have several people volunteering to help build the boat, based on ability to use it once done of course.
Not really expecting it to be done by the end of the season but can always hope.......
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:13 pm**

The hardware store valve is brass. It will be something like 40% zink that will leach out when exposed to saltwater. True marine valves are made with bronze. I use Jamestown for lots of my bronze stuff.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:19 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:09 pm I was pricing some of the expected cost today and nearly dropped to the floor at the price for a simple ball valve. There was about a $40 dollar difference from the family business to the Marine store. Never understood why the stuff titled "Marine should be so different in price.

I'm with you. But I did some digging for a product I want to develop. Here is what is driving the prices:
1. Higher grade metal for proper "corrosion resistance". If you see a cheap marine product ripple check the steel rating.
2. Certification with multiple agencies for use of "marine". This is required if you are SELLING a product for use in a particular manner in specific conditions.
3 Insurance. Once you are selling a product as "fit for service" you must cary insurance. That will require you to track lots built, where lots were sent, and who purchased units (if serializable).

The product I'm working had had a base cost of $80 for me to manufacture. Once I added the above at the minimum level I was over $400 per unit for first 10k units. By the time I had it down to realistic units sold of $1k my price per unit was over $5k. The real cost is in the fed and legal arena.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:48 pm**

Fuzz I will use Jamestown for my stuff. Familiar with them.

Jaysen
Never would have believed that regulation could cost that amount of money!!!!
I will use the appropriate marine components for bait well. Unbelievable!!
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:07 pm**

After reading a bit over the past years I thought The Marelon parts would be a good compromise for price and use. Metal has problems I have never encounters on a trailered boat, namely corrosion. So time to tech up a bit. What are the threads of these nylon composites sealed with?
Boat kit due to arrive Friday, this week. What service!
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:06 pm**

I like the bronze for stuff below the waterline but have no problem with plastic above it.

Posted: **Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:26 am**

I like plastic below the waterline for corrosion resistance, stainless above mainly because I like the look. The TRUDESIGN plastic thru hull and ball valve with the load bearing collar that is popping up everywhere meets ABYC H-27 so it can resist 500 pounds at the inboard end(max leverage) for 30 seconds. That's strong enough for me but you're also around $70-$80 for a 1" thru hull with ball valve, collar, and correct hose fitting. Not just cheap plastic like an above waterline bilge outlet or something.

https://www.gemlux.com/pdf/loadbearingcollars.pdf

Posted: **Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:38 am**

For those interested in previous boat it was built under The name Bluefish2 FS17 Extended sheer.
The extend sheer helped weather wise. It added a lot of weight though. My guess is about 200lbs. I did most of the finish work alone and it was really exhausting.
Sister-in-law has repainted and it looks much cleaner now. Will try and take some pictures.
Rover1

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:57 pm**

Pulled the lever for FS17 kit and Epoxy kit. It arrived today! After a paltry 7 days.
Trucker looked exhausted when he arrived so gave money for dinner and beer. Would have been happy with 4 weeks.
Will start unwrapping tomorrow.
Rover1

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:43 am**

Started making sawdust though not much since this is a kit. Very simple. Took almost six months to reach this point first time around.

Hopefully, daily and weekly updates
Rover1

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:12 pm**

Love it!
Post daily no matter how much or little or much you do.
And post pictures :p

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:56 pm**

Well no pics yet. I did separate all the component parts accept the temporary molds.
they will just have to wait until tomorrow.
Rover1

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:39 pm**

narfi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:12 pm Love it!
Post daily no matter how much or little or much you do.
And post pictures :p

X2

Posted: **Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:02 am**

: Boat kit

: Parts removed

: What lies over the edge- Dragons!

Everything cut out except for temporary molds

Posted: **Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:09 pm**

Started looking at motor$$ recently. Will have to wait until boat show season. Maybe get a better price.
Question: Are all the brands in the 30-60 HP range going to run well without issue for years?
Last Mercury 4 stroke i had did not like ethanol in the fuel in the least. Tohatsu had no issues at all. Would like to consider other brands like Yamaha and Suzuki.
Rover1

Posted: **Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:32 pm**

Everyone has their opinion on outboard brands, but here's mine. My experience with small outboards is though sailing schools, so they are getting beat on by the instructors who don't pay for them all summer working long hours with very frequent on-off and getting run through mud. Our Yamahas lasted decades, needing work but they wouldn't strand you just run poorly until serviced. The Mercurys would just shut down more often, needing a tow in, and it started after only a few years. I would avoid Mercury for small outboards, I know nothing about the larger ones.

While I had great experience with Yamaha and no personal experience with Suzuki I went with a Suzuki 60hp for my FS17. Not launched yet so no experience but Suzuki is very popular around here, and friends have had great luck with them. The Suzuki 60 was favorable to the Yamaha on weight, charging current, and price so I went that way. I'd would have been comfortable with either Yamaha or Suzuki in the 30-60 range.

That's my personal take on it.

Edit: I paid ~$7000 for the motor and ~$9000 with throttle, start switch, tach, control cables, stainless prop, and install

Posted: **Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:46 pm**

It is my often stated opinion that all the new outboards are good products. Each brand does have its all-stars and dogs but the brand overall is good. The thing that makes one better than the others is the dealer in my mind. If I were in a place to pick and chose I would spend time at each dealer and make my choice that way.

Posted: **Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:52 pm**

Good points. Not in any rush.

Now it starts, first mixing will be tomorrow morning.

Posted: **Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:39 pm**

Yep you have just a little assembly to do before worrying about power too much

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:45 pm**

After mixing to much epoxy first time and waisting half of it.
Bought pumps only to find they do not fit the bottles.
Still no started and finished transom today.
1 step down and 365 to go. Have to start somewhere.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:31 am**

Extra parts....?
Started putting the stringers together this morning Is there any chance that the kit has extra parts in it? There appears to be a tip piece and back piece for a stringer. cannot find any other pieces that go with them.

Transom assembled.
As noted above working on stringers.
In the next week will work on primary panels. Then strong back and frames.

Rover1

Posted: **Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:36 am**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:09 pm Started looking at motor$$ recently. Will have to wait until boat show season. Maybe get a better price.
Question: Are all the brands in the 30-60 HP range going to run well without issue for years?
Last Mercury 4 stroke i had did not like ethanol in the fuel in the least. Tohatsu had no issues at all. Would like to consider other brands like Yamaha and Suzuki.
Rover1

Do a line by line compare. You might find the best option to be the Yamaha F70. It is probably in the same weight class as the competitors 60hp versions.

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:23 am**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:31 am Extra parts....?
Started putting the stringers together this morning Is there any chance that the kit has extra parts in it? There appears to be a tip piece and back piece for a stringer. cannot find any other pieces that go with them.

Transom assembled.
As noted above working on stringers.
In the next week will work on primary panels. Then strong back and frames.

Rover1

I wouldn't glue anything together until you figure this out!! The stringers in these boats (at least the ones your size and up) are made up of layers that have offset seams, like one long piece butted to another long piece sandwiched to one long piece spanning that joint and a short piece in the bow and stern.
Leftover parts is not good!

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:14 pm**

At leas it's not a bottom or side piece!
Rover1

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:30 pm**

Rover1, did you receive the email from Reid explaining the non-useable parts. He thought he had marked them for you. Jeff

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:05 pm**

Yes thank you, I did. All set.
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:05 pm**

Have completed stringers. now to look frames placement and strongback. At least no layout this time. wish it wasn't so gloomy here north of Boston.
Rover1

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:33 am**

Puzzle Joints
I need to assemble bottom and side panels next. These will need to be stored on edge for a while, 1-2 weeks, so I can set up the strong back and framing.
Do I need to put tape on both sides of joint or will one side be good enough?
Rover1

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:46 am**

https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... -joint.pdf

Here's the link to the puzzle joint how to! I don't believe you need fiberglass with the puzzle joints!

One of the advantages!

To assemble a puzzle joint is simple:
▪work on a flat surface covered with
a plastic sheet
▪coat the edges of the puzzle joints
with epoxy resin
▪assemble the two sides by pressing
the joint together. The joint is tight
and may require some pressure: we
use a rubber mallet.
▪cover the joint with more resin
▪cover the assembly with a second
sheet of plastic, tap with a mallet
and apply pressure:
▪on that sheet of plastic, put down a
flat piece of wood or metal (a 2x4 is
fine) and put some weights on the
assembly
▪wait for the resin to cure
(overnight), grind the resin runs and
proceed with the building.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:18 am**

Thanks BB,
That looks like I don't really need to worry about the puzzle Joints as far as strength goes. Maybe a couple of glass band aids for my own piece of mind. Always afraid that Murphy's Law is going to sneak up on me.
Rover1

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:58 am**

First Attachment

Yes there is plastic underneath.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:07 pm**

It's a start!

Posted: **Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:24 am**

Started joining the side panels this morning. Should have these done by end of the weekend.
Could be setting up frames next Week!
Rover1

Posted: **Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:34 am**

Nice progress Rover1!!! Jeff

Posted: **Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:20 pm**

Making progress.

My 2x6x16 have twisted in the past week. Is there any way to straighten them out? Or is replacement a better option.

Rover1

Posted: **Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:01 pm**

I really like TGIs for this. They are not too spendy, used for floor joists in many homes now day, are stiff and will stay dead flat.

Posted: **Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:11 pm**

Use the two least twisted if only minor for the long ones. Cut the more twisted ons for the cross pieces. Or...return them to the store and get some straight ones again. Put jig together before they twist and use 3” screws instead of nails.

Posted: **Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:05 pm**

GuyP, Okay that works.
Have completed joining panels. Not worried about the puzzle joints anymore. Carried completed bottom panels in and out of shed without issue. No band aids either. I had my rubber mallet ready to assist assembly but did not need it as the clearance was quite good.
I think putting a boat together actually is helping with my back rehabilitation. Who'da thunk. Getting from my knees to my feet is easier, a little bit anyway.
Maybe I should take a day from the boat and go fishing. There is a stripedbass with my name on it.
ROver1

Posted: **Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:19 pm**

Almost to the point of mounting frames on the strong back. Was having trouble picturing where to mount frame a so it is in height. What I came up with
was the 14" from Design line to base line then 31/8" to the center point for 17 1/8". So from the center will be that distance from top of the strong back.
hope that is right. Have not mounted yet.
Rover1

Posted: **Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:34 pm**

What I remember from about a year ago and looking back at my numerous pictures: make sure your baseline is high enough above the strongback so that toward the bow where the highest part of the inverted hull edge (sheer I think it’s called) is dropping closer toward the strongback, the tip of the bow will clear the strongback.

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:59 pm**

Well, started doing the preliminary line up of the frames and molds.
Going to need some help though.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:57 am**

It looks like you are working from the kit. There is nothing to measure, not even the baseline. All molds should sit on the strongbacks and spacing is set by the stringer notches.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:39 am**

Hi Jacques,
Yes, I am working from kit. That includes frame A just sitting on end of strongback?
Rover 1

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 pm**

Not about current build.
Can anyone recommend a book for basic boat wiring? My old boat is being rewired and I cannot be there to help.
Thanks,
Rover 1

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:58 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 pm Not about current build.
Can anyone recommend a book for basic boat wiring? My old boat is being rewired and I cannot be there to help.
Thanks,
Rover 1

The "boatowners mechanical and electrical manual" is the go to source for systems on a boat in my opinion. Has many topics not relevant to small boats, but will tell you everything you need to know about wiring.

Pacific yacht systems also posts free seminars on youtube I liked quite a bit. Again many things beyond what you need on a small boat, but lots of info about doing wiring right that will apply.

Posted: **Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:31 pm**

Thanks Joe that should help.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:53 pm**

Have done a test assembly of the hull. Had an issue with stringer that became mis-aligned when it was put together and setting. Made new one and went to mount it. One lamination to thick.
It is going to be a tight fit in the shed.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:57 pm**

The stringer s looked about an 1/8" high on one side.
Over 1

Posted: **Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:04 pm**

Need Help With the stringer issue.
Is the stringer standing a little high going too need to be trimmed flush?
It is about an 1/8th to 3/16ths inch high. It may be easier for me to grind it down than try to remove and trim.
Recommendations please.
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:12 pm**

First, double check to make sure that all of the frames are in the correct location. If everything is in the correct location than it is better to finesse the fit by adjusting the depth of the notches in the frames than to change your stringers. I ran into the same issue with the FS19 as have other builders. A little trimming ought to fix it.

Posted: **Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:52 pm**

Thanks Browndog,
I will check the measurements of frames and then the stringer make sure I did not make a mistake there.
It should be fairly easy to adjust the notches.
Thanks again
Rover1

Posted: **Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:25 pm**

Something to consider (I am not exactly sure what you are trying to figure out)
I can't cut anything exactly, so what I did with the slots was oversized them slightly and then once in place shimmed them with tongue depressors.
That is of course assuming that you double check your bulkhead and stringer dimensions and they are correct.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:37 am**

Got the previous high stringer problem solved, with a hammer. My son was over and pointed out that the stringer was not down equally along the length. Relocated a bit and hit down on the stringer. Problem solved.

Next problem: Bow tie wraps and panel alignment.
Please see next post.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:47 am**

The bottom panels are overlapping the sides. How have others solved this? Re apply the Tiewraps with less tension.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:03 am**

You could use short lengths of small PVC pipe inserted into the backside of each zip tie to help with alignment. Like this:

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:09 am**

Sigh. I will reach two feet over my head and grab the piece of PVC. Cut tiewraps insert PVC try again. Repeat.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:33 am**

Use a popsicle stick as a spacer. I used both the popsicle sticks and the pvc spacer.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:17 pm**

Thanks Brian,
for the refresher. It helped a lot.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:58 pm**

Adding PVC spacers helped. Much better.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:59 pm**

IMG_20200719_175238.jpg

Adding PVC spacers helped. Much better.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:03 pm**

Much better than before with addition of pvc.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:16 pm**

Rover1,

It appears that you are tightening your zip ties way too tight! In the last picture, if you loosen the top 2 zip ties the tips of the bottom panels will probably come together much easier. With any stitch and glue boat, you MUST leave a gap between plywood panels to allow the fillet material to in. The fillet (epoxy glue) is what holds the panels together, without the fillet joining the panels the seam is weak. I like to use 16 penny nails to create a consistent gap and pull them out once I "tack weld".

Good luck,
Reid

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:27 pm**

Once you have done what Reid suggests, you might consider epoxying a strip of fiberglass tape there at the corner, the bend there is pretty sharp and my tack glue broke at that spot on my fs17 and I had to do it again at that stage. (not a big deal, but if you can prevent the issue, why not?)

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:31 pm**

Hi Reid,
I think you are right. It took a bit of effort to pull the panels together at this point.
End result, the bottom and side panels pulled forward of the transom just a bit.
Two tiewraps in three tiewraps out.... repeat.
I had hoped to start glassing this weekend. Maybe not.
Rover1

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:33 pm**

Thanks Narfi
I will add the tape.
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:04 pm**

Well, Looks like another problem: The right side panel hangs just fine but the left is low at the front. Not by much but enough the back of the panel does not line up exactly. maybe 3/8-1/2
Also, One of the mold frames appears to be off by a quarter inch to the left side, as you look forward from the transom.
Bottom panels appear to line up okay. The panels may need to come off and re-align Molds.
And Just to add insult to injury bow mold is not perfectly vertical
Better now than wishing I did it later.
New plan? First epoxy by Labor Day....
Rover1

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:30 pm**

Was getting a bit depressed over the issues with build. Fixed most of them.
Panels oow line up on transom
Tie wraps are much loser with the help of plastic pipe added and sparcernails.
Still not completely happy with the bow but it is better.
Started this project with a new bag of 1000 ties. it is now down to about 400>
Will do final line up on the bow tomorrow. Maybe add some more plastic pipe.
I liked the idea of the hole in the pipe to prevent them from coming off the tiewrap when mounting.
If I can solve the final issue with the bow I will start epoxy this week.
Then start adding some pictures again.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:41 am**

Hwy Rover1 hang in there. It will turn out okay! Just take your time.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:11 am**

You will get through this. Then it will go real fast until you get to the sanding, fairing, priming, painting step. At that point you will spend inordinate amounts of time trying to smooth everything out and just about go crazy.

So my advice is try to work as clean as possible, be careful on measuring and mixing your epoxy, take care of any drips and blobs right away. Use up any leftover mixed epoxy to coat a panel instead of throwing it away.

Overall I think the best advice I received was to plan well, be careful and work quickly but don’t rush anything.

This might not make any sense right now, but it will soon enough.

By the way, it always takes longer than you think. There is lots of waiting time for the epoxy to cure. Work an hour, wait a day, repeat. But if you skip that hour you just added another day.

Most of my mistakes were made when I tried to rush.

Keep it up, you are on the right track.

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:49 am**

Tried some pictures but not sure why they never appeared last night. So, try again

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:52 am**

All that can be filled with epoxy and wood flour.

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:53 am**

Does anyone have examples of rigging trays in fs or ob type boats? Thinking if I do end up with center console mount I would rather do trays than the tubes used the last time. Still planning on tiller or side console but want to cover my bases should I end up that way.

Also, Has anyone ever seen handicap flags for boats? They seem to have them for everything else. US flags, fish flags, weather.....
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:20 pm**

cape man wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:52 am All that can be filled with epoxy and wood flour.

This! A wise man once said we take a block of epoxy and wood and sand it into a boat shaped thing

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:45 pm**

Haven’t seen handicap flags specifically for boats, but you could use the handicap flags for search and rescue or for golf carts.

Posted: **Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:36 pm**

Thanks Browndog
Will check out the golf suppliers.

Have started to fill in the seams on hull. Will post a couple of pictures later.
ROver1

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:21 pm**

Started filling in seams. The caulking cartridge method did not work and left a mess and used to much epoxy. That is already extra grinding. Couple of pictures.

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:09 pm**

Good progress!!! Jeff

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:30 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:21 pm Started filling in seams. The caulking cartridge method did not work and left a mess and used to much epoxy.

Maybe too late now Rover but I had good results using a freezerbag with the corner cutoff. I was using GelMagic for the seam glue but have used the same technique with a woodflour/epoxy mix with good results. easy to control the "flow".

Posted: **Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:22 pm**

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:30 pm
Rover1 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:21 pm Started filling in seams. The caulking cartridge method did not work and left a mess and used to much epoxy.
Maybe too late now Rover but I had good results using a freezerbag with the corner cutoff. I was using GelMagic for the seam glue but have used the same technique with a woodflour/epoxy mix with good results. easy to control the "flow".

I used gallon bags as well. Taped the edges/seams to make sure the bag didn't bust!

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:00 pm**

Just grinding and some touch-up on the seams. Otherwise not much happening.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:18 pm**

Seam grinding is complete. Just a few spots to touch up before the glass goes on. That can be done when the glass is being started.
ALMOST!
Rover

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:29 pm**

Skeg. Will adding a skeg slow the drift speed of the boat any? Would think so. I would drift right through a crowd of boats most of which were larger. Normally with the old boat, no skeg, if it was windy I would put out a drift sock. one of the near future attachments if I decide to go that way.
Rover

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:17 pm**

So it begins. Officially have the first strips of glass on the transom today. Heat has broken enough to make the shed bearable

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:16 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:29 pm Skeg. Will adding a skeg slow the drift speed of the boat any? Would think so. I would drift right through a crowd of boats most of which were larger. Normally with the old boat, no skeg, if it was windy I would put out a drift sock. one of the near future attachments if I decide to go that way.
Rover

A skeg is designed to help in straight line motion and control in a turn so you don't go sliding across the water. You want to keep it forward from the transom about 12" so it does not interfere with water going to the prop. But is a definite help to most boats. Looking at the first picture on the Study Plans there is skeg on the first boat with the red line on it.

Posted: **Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:01 pm**

Guess this boat is getting a skeg.
Today's progress: bow taped and one side of Chinese taped. Need to check for any of the dreaded air pockets and dry spots.

Except for the initial assembly I have been able to do this alone.
That may change on the larger sheets that cover the bottom and sides.
Next is the center seam then other chine.
Movii along!
River

Posted: **Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:21 pm**

Finally, a bit more progress.
Just the opposite chine and the center. and even more important someone excited to help over Labor Day weekend! My friend Dave from work said he would jump in and help. Could be airing in two Weeks! May yet make my flip date of Christmas!

The rainbow just because it was there.

Posted: **Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:04 pm**

Just a followup to the above post.
we spent 2 hours roughly putting down the glass on the seams. With the epoxy now set there was only one spot where a void appeared under the glass. one spot where there was pooling of the epoxy. Which compared to the last boat is very good.
There was a few drips on the vertical areas and a couple of glass splinters that refused to be put in their place. Very satisfied with yesterdays work.
only minimal grinding and sanding for the next step. Bottom and side glass coming weekend.
Rover1

Posted: **Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:28 pm**

Any perceived down side to pooled epoxy?

I have a spot or two, wondering if there a physical detriment.

Posted: **Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:11 pm**

HI Dan,
As I understand it pooled epoxy could cause a couple of issues aside from wasted glue.
The glass may not bond as well if there is to much or the next layer may not bond as well. Probably others.
On the first FS I had to much while glassing the inside and in the heat on that particular day it all ended up at the bottom of the boat. Dry glass, no epoxy shows as white spots, and large pools in the bottom. Many hour grinding glass. It was horrible. Does not seem to have hurt the boat in the end as my brother is now running it almost 10 years out.
Best to avoid the problem. Not to much, Not to little. Just enough to wet out the glass and be able to feel the weave a bit.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:50 pm**

Progressing. Did the starboard side this afternoon. Buddy said he could return tomorrow so.. Other side then. Pictures when complete.
Rover

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:38 pm**

Try again. Lost my post to the ether.
Bottom done. Used to much epoxy. But that's part of process.
Some pictures.

: Not sure you can see the pooling of glue.

: Not sure you can see the pooling of glue.

: Transom mostly glasses but cut the sheets just a bit short

: Transom mostly glasses but cut the sheets just a bit short

: Wasted epoxy pulled from pots I thought empty.

: Bow, some bubbles more grinding

Posted: **Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:16 pm**

Couple more pictures.

Posted: **Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:42 pm**

Epoxy Problem:
I have an area of epoxy that did not set from Monday's glassing session. It is maybe a total of one square foot.
ON the plus side it is mostly over the previously glassed seams so should come off easily. If I pull this off back to firm glass what is the next step?
Not sure thought maybe acetone wipe down and re-glass.
Suggestions welcome.
Rover1

Posted: **Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:20 am**

I wonder why only one square foot didn't set

Anyway, acetone works well, but plain old vinegar might do the job too. I do read about some Acetone products leaving an undesirable residue, dunno how you can tell. My Home Depot acetone seems to work ok but I bet vinegar would do the job. Safer product too.

Dougster

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:46 pm**

FInally did some grinding of the glass with the bad epoxy. Underneath the surface was very waxy feeling. This is down to bare wood. Not sure how to get it off.
The acetone I tried wiping the surface down with leaves a sickening smell that hangs around for days. Need to avoid that.
any suggestions would be helpful.
I will try the vinegar Dougster recommended.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:36 am**

Whether acetone or vinegar, follow up with soap and water, and then just water. I use hot water.

Posted: **Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:26 pm**

Cape Man
what kind of soap?
Rover

Posted: **Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:26 am**

I believe he means dish washing liquid, you don't want actual soap or it would leave a film.

Posted: **Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:28 pm**

Making Progress
Washed down entire hull with mild soap and water. One additional soft spot but it was only on the surface not under the glass. My guess is wildlife- cats, rats or birds would be my guess. In the city environment that's mainly what I see. Though I was almost hit one night by a pair of owls.
Did a lot of grinding to smooth the various transition points. Once the soft spots are taken care of I will start faring the hull.
Took pictures underneath and did not look to bad. A piece of spacer tube never come off but other than that look pretty clean.
Also cut the rail pieces.
Busy productive day.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:21 pm**

Some progress but not enough to warrant pictures.
Finally removed all the non hardened epoxy. wish I could still blame the rats but it was a poorly mixed cup of resin that was turned upside down.
Moral is mix then mix some more to be sure.
Put glass on the rest of the transom and filled in the spot that had been ground out from non-setting epoxy.
Temporarily mounted some of the side rails with bolts and fender washers.
Getting close to fairing the bottom.
That's it for today. can't wait until I can take legitimate progress pictures.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:53 pm**

Made a small of progress.
Started rub rail attachment
Started application of purple fairing materialp
Drilled drain in the transom but may be redrilling in the future.

Aiming for the flip!
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:28 am**

More facing compound. More sanding. Add more repeat....
Probably to much compound creating more sanding.

: After a lot of sanding.

I am hoping that ounce more will be last before I can start on the quick fair material. Meaning more sanding........

Rover1

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:24 pm**

I would add some pictures but not much has changed. Add fairing material and sand, find a low spot and fill. Finally broke down and ordered a sanding board with rolls of sanding material. Still aiming for the Thanksgiving weekend flip. If I can find enough people.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:17 am**

Winter has arrived in New England. That means worse than SN*%, Slow setting epoxy in the cold temperatures.
Put another coat of purple goo down last night and found it still tacky this morning.
On the plus side I have started assembling the console which I bought in case I decided to go CC. I was thinking that an extension might be useful.
My helper is still going strong with enthusiasm. Even sanding! Was using an infra red heater but it is not as
effective as I was hoping. Back to the hot air standard with fan.

Ordered more supplies. Developing first name relationship with BBC people.

Starting to think plumbing for live well. Through Hull, valve but not sure what should come after other than an adapter to the hose. Pump? Also what is the best location? front, back, middle? I think 20-30 gallons is enough.Open to suggestions.

Next summer will be a live line season, Mackerel and Pogies for what I hope will be Striped bass and Bluefish and maybe the popular tuna melt down. My equipment is not that heavy so having it destroyed is all I can expect.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:10 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:17 am Winter has arrived in New England. That means worse than SN*%, Slow setting epoxy in the cold temperatures.
Put another coat of purple goo down last night and found it still tacky this morning.

I'm right there with ya! I'm fortunate to build in a basement but keeping it warm is $$$.

Posted: **Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:27 pm**

Indian Summer!

Have been sanding to beat the devil! Went over the entire boat last weekend with fairing compound. Still a few spots that look like sand traps on a golf course. But mostly done the big stuff.
I did note that the areas my buddy put fairing on were MUCH smoother to start and required much less sanding. Spots I did? well some required a grinder to correct. One final coat for the bottom then graphite and epoxy.
The sides are not to bad. Saturday is fill the low spots with Quick Fair day. With nice weather this weekend I hope to have two coats with final sanding Sunday afternoon.
The section that bothers me is the bow. Have done three coats but it still feels rough even after sanding with multiple grits of sand paper.

The one useful tool I sprung for this time was the 3M sanding boat from BBC and rolls of sandpaper to go with it. Work is much easier with the much improved ergonomic design. It works even better when my buddy does it!
Should there be another boat beyond this I will purchase another. Sanding is now with the 150grit texture. Had until today used 60, 80, and 100 grit.
I will post some pictures Sunday.
Getting Closer to FLIP DAY!

Rover 1

Posted: **Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:33 am**

The sanding/fairing part is the hardest part for most of us by a wide margin. Cracker Larry used to say we don't build boats, we take a hunk of epoxy/wood and sand into a boat shaped thing. He also said to sand all you could stand, take few days break, and come back and do it some more. At some point you will need to prine things just so you can see what still needs more work. All that being said the boat does not need to be a show piece to be a good boat. My dory is far from perfect but it works just fine for me needs

Posted: **Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:54 am**

Fuzz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:33 am The sanding/fairing part is the hardest part for most of us by a wide margin.

Agreed. If the build method were named for the most prevalent part of the build, it would be "Sand and Fair" instead of "Stitch and Glue". The stitching and gluing is a footnote compared to the sanding!

Posted: **Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:04 am**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:27 pm I did note that the areas my buddy put fairing on were MUCH smoother to start and required much less sanding.

Fallguy advised me to start using a 12" metal taping knife and it made a HUGE difference for me. That and making sure the fairing compound was warm made it go on much easier, smoother, thinner and require much less sanding.

Posted: **Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:51 pm**

Indian Summer!
And I have to work! I thought you got to work less when you were older. Or maybe you work more to pick up the slack of the people with young kids. Now that the kids are on their own Work is the new hobby!
Tomorrow morning is wipe down and start with the Quick Fair. And if there is enough time and light, after work, More Sanding!

Also, because I do not remember. I have some 6oz fiberglass tape but don't remember whether it was for the console or some other part. Came in the kit though.
Rover 1

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:38 pm**

Moving slowly......
Becoming ONE with the Sander.

Above, Big Dave Becoming ONE with the sander.......
I was going to use Quick Fair for the entire bottom but decided I will use the last of the purple goo and then start the sides which don't look to bad.
I should have a few more pictures Later.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:40 pm**

Moving slowly......
Becoming ONE with the Sander.

PXL_20201108_000256728 - Copy.jpg

Above, Big Dave Becoming ONE with the sander.......
I was going to use Quick Fair for the entire bottom but decided I will use the last of the purple goo and then start the sides which don't look to bad.
I should have a few more pictures Later.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:43 pm**

Okay, Epoxy Question: I opened some old epoxy and it smelled strongly of amines. Does this mean that it is no longer any good?
Hoping to use it somewhere discoloration is not an issue.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:57 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:43 pm Okay, Epoxy Question: I opened some old epoxy and it smelled strongly of amines. Does this mean that it is no longer any good?
Hoping to use it somewhere discoloration is not an issue.
Rover1

In 2011 I was digging around in a back corner of my shop I found three five gallon jugs of System3 epoxy. The bottom third of the resin jugs were hard as a rock. The hardner was brown and smelled funny. This epoxy was around 21 years old at the time. I read on this forum you could heat the resin in a water bath and it would all return to normal. The heating worked and I built my dory with it. The dory is now 8 years old and doing just fine. So I tend to believe old epoxy is just fine but I would test a small batch just to make sure.

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:57 pm**

Thank you for the confirmation Fuzz.
After making my post I did a test and It hardened with no issues. The smell is definitely not something I will be using in the house.
I see it being used in places the odd color won't make a difference.
Thanks again
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:05 pm**

I flipped my FS19 about this time last year. I’m in a warmer climate but found I could provide enough curing heat by tenting over the gunwales with a couple box heaters and small fan on the inside.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:48 pm**

Was all set to buy a generator but stopped short when a free one became available. Can't beat free.
Want to flip the boat next weekend so the fairing may be cut short. but It is almost done anyway except for the transom.
I would like a couple of coats of epoxy graphite before the flip. Tomorrow is also fair the transom day. or as much as possible anyway.
The finish should be a level better than the last boat. I found on the last boat the finish deteriorated pretty quickly after a couple of fishing trips.
Just never looked the same.
The lighter glass cloth I am planning on this time around should make it better. No Kiwi grip. That was the last boats problem. Once dirty always dirty.
Pictures once the graphite is on.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:54 pm**

Could not flip the boat. Really wanted to stop fairing the bottom. End result is the bottom looks worsse than I thought it would with a coat of Graphite/epoxy. At least the freebee generator works, for now. Can heat the shed to a point that , if not toasty then my feet are not freezing.
And I came up two rollers short on the epoxy.
More pictures when the graphite is done and boat right side up.

Rover1

Posted: **Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:31 pm**

Could not flip the boat. Really wanted to stop fairing the bottom. End result is the bottom looks worsse than I thought it would with a coat of Graphite/epoxy. At least the freebee generator works, for now. Can heat the shed to a point that , if not toasty then my feet are not freezing.
And I came up two rollers short on the epoxy.
More pictures when the graphite is done and boat right side up.

boat bottom.jpg

Rover1

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:12 pm**

HI Narfi,
Sent you a PM. Let me know if you receive it.
Rover1

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:52 pm**

Got it and responded. I'll check tomorow

Posted: **Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:15 pm**

Finally Flipped!
Not as many pictures as I 'd hoped Everything seemed to go crazy once people showed up.
Dull drill bits, dead batteries, things crashing absolutely everything that could go wrong did.
In the end the boat was flipped and put back in the shed.
One small step for the boat builder, that much closer to fishing!

: toward the stern

: Big Dave removes bow mold

: Looking toward bow

: Stern in first.

Posted: **Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:40 pm**

Looking really good. You got a nice warm day for the flip. Keep at it and she will be ready for the summer.
Dave

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:50 pm**

Making baby steps at the moment.
I realized after the crew had left that the straps went under the supports for the boat and were pulling the sides down and the bottom up. I did notice until I put the frames back.
Big Dave came to the rescue and got a jack to raise the boat enough to re-route the straps. when tightened the bottom came back very nicely and the side were almost perfect.
Rover1

Posted: **Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:53 am**

Congrats Rover1!!! Jeff

Posted: **Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:27 pm**

Progressing, slowly....
put in boards and straps to maintain shape, removed the frames and stringers, did a preliminary coat of epoxy along the seams. finally started glassing the seams.

I am having some issue with the back that slows me down from time to time. Yesterday was one of them. Do not think that it is anything that 3 days a week in the gym won't help.
When that will be is anyone's guess.
There will be some additional sanding due to the time delays on the taping but it is worth it to see the progress.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:29 pm**

Progress is progress Rover, keep chipping away. Sucks about the back issues and the current conditions that make helping it impossible. Hope things stay manageable and you can continue moving things forward.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:12 pm**

Moving slowly...
Laid down port side seam glass this afternoon.
Tomorrow the starboard side which I will have to do alone since buddy is working. Me too, but things are in flux at work so no telling what will happen.

: seam glassing

: seam glassing

The spots that look dry are well saturated and we rolled out the vast majority of the air pockets.
Starting to think of names the following have come to mind: Bottom Feeder, Blue Boat, The Appollo, But the one that is winning so far is Sea Rover. Based on the fact this boat will go everywhere I go.
Slowly,
Rover 1

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:24 pm**

Boats looking good. Coming up with a name for the boat is always a tough thing for me.

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:28 pm**

I was day dreaming in the shed and decided to dry-fit the motor well frames.
What I found was a big space between the motor well sides and the transom. Not sure what to do about it.
add another layer of plywood to fill the space? Some trimming on the corners will help but this is about a half inch. Need guidance.

: This picture shows significant space between motor well side and the transom. Seeking comment.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:38 am**

I would have to look at my plans again but is that notch for the clamping board for the partial height clamping board? It looks like you did your thicker transom full height so no need for the notch?

If no one else answers before I will try checking my plans tomorow.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:41 am**

narfi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:38 am I would have to look at my plans again but is that notch for the clamping board for the partial height clamping board? It looks like you did your thicker transom full height so no need for the notch?

If no one else answers before I will try checking my plans tomorow.

I think you are correct. If Rover made the full transom the thickness of the clamping board they would need to extend that notch cutting the entire stringer to the shorter length. Check the plans first but that seems like the problem.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:03 am**

Narfi, Joe,
This is the kit version. Don't think the space is supposed to be there. On the lower section there is not enough space to make up the difference in the gap at notch.
Pretty sure it and the stringers are supposed to be hard to the transom. Not full height transom. clamping board stops at the top of stringers.
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:24 am**

If all notches and frames are properly assembled, that part should touch the transom.
I remember building the prototype of the FS17LS from a kit and we did not have that problem.
I don't have the kit model but will check as soon as I get a copy.
In the mean time, I would add a slice of plywood there, covered with a 4 to 6" wide double (sister block). It will be very strong and you should have enough ply left over for that.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:55 am**

Ok, I just looked at my plans.
The notch in the motorwell frames is supposed to be 1 1/4" deep.
The transom is made up of 4 layers of 3/8", the actual transom + 3 layers of clamping board, the 3 layers of 3/8 + glue seams should be right at 1 1/4" so it should fit better than you have shown.
Is it possible you have too few of clamping boards or they are on the outside of the transom instead of the inside? It is hard to tell in your picture but it looks like maybe only 3 layers total instead of 4?

When something doesn't fit in my plans, I usually assume I did something wrong and try to figure out where the issue was and correct it before going forward.... I hope this isn't the case for you though.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:15 am**

I just went back through your pictures, I think that you only have 2 layers of clamping board instead of 3

At this stage I think it should still be fairly easy to glue one more layer in there, but (depending on what Jacques says of course) I suspect it will limit the size of engine you will be able to hang on it if you leave it as is.

Page 5 of the plans,

The transom is made of four parts: one full transom and three smaller parts at the top for the
clamping board. Cut the transom first and use it as a template to scribe the clamping board pieces.
Note that to save plywood, we show two layers of the clamping board made in two pieces. Sandwich
them between the large transom and the one piece clamping board. Offset the cuts, one each side.
See remarks below about the transom and clamping board.

Also the first page of the large sheets (both US and Metric) shows the plywood nesting plan, you can see the 1 transom and 3 sets of clamping boards(one solid and 2 split)

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:27 pm**

Rover1,

I just took a look at the CNC nesting diagram. Here is what you should have for the transom: 1 full transom (this would serve as the outside layer), 2 clamping boards. One of the clamping boards is in two pieces and should have been used as the middle layer. The middle clamping board that was in two pieces was nested on sheets H8 and H9. The overall thickness of the transom at the top should be three layers of 9mm.
It is hard to see from the picture if you used all three layers or not. If not, this would account for the gap.
-Reid

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:36 pm**

Reid wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:27 pm
I just took a look at the CNC nesting diagram.

Could you check with Jacques on that? It is different than the plans. Perhaps the kit was decided to only need 3 layers total, but the plans are very clear on their being 4 layers.

I know lots of kits have successfully been built, so perhaps there isn't any issue, but it is a pretty big discrepancy between kit and plans if so.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:49 pm**

Narfi,

After looking at the plans you are correct. It appears as if we may have left out a clamping board layer from the CNC kit.

Rover1,
Please give me a call at the shop. 772-742-8535. Let's see what we can do to get you what you need.

-Reid

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:38 pm**

Thanks Narfi. Very Helpful.

Reid,
Just checked- three layers total. There is no 4th layer. I do remember that there were 4 pieces to the clamping board- the two half pieces, the one piece for the transom and the one
piece inside clamping board.
I will call in the morning.
Rover1

Posted: **Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:58 am**

It might be a similar situation to the C17. The nesting diagram shows four layers, the building notes say three. When asked the designer said that the fourth layer wasn't needed, but there's room on the ply so why not?

Posted: **Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:14 pm**

Spoke with Reid this morning. The problem with the transom has been taken care of to everyone's satisfaction.
The missing piece is being sent and corrections to the kits will be made. I will add the wayward part once in hand.

In the meantime I have been working on completing the glassing of the seams.. Son will help complete those tomorrow, Friday.

Rover1

Posted: **Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:42 pm**

The last page of this thread is what makes this site/forum so great! The builder, material supplier, designer, and forum members all working to make sure the finished product is correct. And it was ALL done in a friendly and helpful manner. I have found nothing like it on the world wide web. Makes me proud to be a member.

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:51 pm**

Okay, have made a bit of progress. I was able to complete glassing the seams and start the inside large areas. Not sure will be able to continue due to cold weather The inside of the shed is warn enough to work but the second the heaters are turn off temperature drops rapidly and slows the epoxy setting time. It has not been a problem in the past just concerned my luck will run out.
I think the next piece to go on will be done in smaller sections the one big sheet was to much and I could barely reach some of it. Some air pockets were so big I was tempted to pull out the whole sheet and start over but settled on just cutting slits so glass would lay down. It helped a lot doing that way. There could still be some dry spots though. We'll see in the morning.

Not sure about the order of the pictures. I think future pictures are going to be named so they can be put up in order.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:52 am**

Oh C%$P! Epoxy did not set up overnight in the cold.Will need to do some grinding when it finally does.
Noticed several dry spots that will need tending to. Heaters now on and hoping.
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:30 pm**

Recieved order from BBC. Thanks Reid and company.

I thought there would be a couple of dry spots on the last epoxy and glass work. Worse then I thought. Was able to actually peel off several large pieces.
I should have worked on a smaller area.

: glass removed from the dry spots

Posted: **Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:59 pm**

Pure speculation on my part.....
If you mix large batches of epoxy it can be hard to get it all spread out before it starts to 'gel' but because it is mixed and expensive and human nature, I want to get every last bit of usable epoxy from each batch, that is when I end up with areas like that.

Instead I mix small batches and pour it out quickly (it cures much faster when in the cup than when poured out thin as the chemical reaction to heat to faster cure to faster chemical reaction to more heat snowball is greatly slowed down) and then spread and work it in, then mix the next batch (or my wife will be mixing it for me) and continue, that way I am never working with epoxy that is close to gelling even on very large area layups. I also make sure the wood is well saturated before laying down the biaxal cloth as it is harder (not impossible) to work the epoxy down from the top. (I will lay lighter woven cloth down dry and work the epoxy in from the top as it wets out easier)

Not sure if that helps any or not, but just my thoughts from your picture.

Posted: **Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:54 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:30 pm Recieved order from BBC. Thanks Reid and company.

I thought there would be a couple of dry spots on the last epoxy and glass work. Worse then I thought. Was able to actually peel off several large pieces.
I should have worked on a smaller area.PXL_20210126_201238191.jpgPXL_20210126_201252362.jpg

I had some of that happen also, bummer. Stick with it!

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:50 pm**

I had well over 70 square feet of that happen. Grinder is ok for small areas. For larger muck ups use a heat gun, pliers and diamond blade to score out the sections you want gone.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:56 pm**

Thanks Gentlemen,
The last time I had this issue it was so hot the epoxy ran out of the cloth. With this issue the epoxy going on the cold surface appears to have caused the problem. Even though there was plenty of epoxy the glass wet out but did not wet through to the surface underneath. Everything underneath was pre-coated.
Will spend the week end prepping for the next round of glass.
Rover1

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:04 pm**

After my difficulty with trapped air (after I stripped the hull I still had some small bubbles on the redo) I did some winter reading on these forums and the literature about voids in glass laminates. They are almost unavoidable, and not all can be seen with the naked eye. Some are truly microscopic. Every 1% of void content leads to about 5-7% of a decrease in some important properties. There is a large margin in these designs, and the wood core by itself is fairly strong and as stiff as 3/16" (4mm) Aluminium plate. So a perfect lamination is not required but you obviously want to get as clean a lamination as you can. My understanding is that about 5% is allowable for marine, 1% aerospace, though it depends on size and position of the voids.

In my case I went over every single glassing job and ground or drilled out anything larger than 1/8" (3.5mm) and covered with putty. I also started to check my work while curing and look to see if anything was forming. If you can get to it early in the cure it's possible to fix in some cases. If there's a large area affected, and more glass is going over later then I'm more aggressive with void drilling.

Posted: **Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:24 pm**

Short Update:
I have been working on removing the dry glass spots on the fiberglass inside of the hull. This has taken about a half hour every day this week. It is miserable work.

This work is about 90% done.
Noticed that a lot of the spots that need grinding do not fall under the frame or stringer locations. What I will likely do is put patches in as the frames go in. This should utilize the small amount of epoxy that is always left over when glassing. This does not have to be pretty like a deck or console.
Rover 1

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:39 pm**

Put the transom piece that was sent up a couple of weeks ago in. With the Infrared heater on it there were no issues with it setting up properly.
Apparently Florida epoxy does not like new England cold.
I was checking the amount of sanding needed last week and realized that everything that had been put down had an amine blush.
Spent two hours last Saturday cleaning that off.
My son is helping with some of the more time consuming work.
Rover1

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:49 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:39 pm ....everything that had been put down had an amine blush.

Experienced people say that blush is no big deal, "just wipe it off", but I really try to avoid it. I struggle with adhesion issues under the best of circumstances.

I use slow hardener for all glassing/coating and use fast hardener for gluing, where blush isn't much of a concern. The MarinEpoxy slow hardener does not seem to blush at all and gives me ample time to re-coat wet-on-wet, which is def my preference. Takes a long time to cure to sandable in my 50 degree workshop but that's typically not an issue, at least in my workflow.

Keep on it Rover!

Posted: **Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:06 pm**

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:49 pm
Rover1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:39 pm ....everything that had been put down had an amine blush.
Experienced people say that blush is no big deal, "just wipe it off", but I really try to avoid it. I struggle with adhesion issues under the best of circumstances.

I use slow hardener for all glassing/coating and use fast hardener for gluing, where blush isn't much of a concern. The MarinEpoxy slow hardener does not seem to blush at all and gives me ample time to re-coat wet-on-wet, which is def my preference. Takes a long time to cure to sandable in my 50 degree workshop but that's typically not an issue, at least in my workflow.

Keep on it Rover!

I really think for most builds it would be worth the extra cost to use a 2:1 non blushing epoxy. I understand some are building on a strict budget and can't swing it, but the epoxy cost is not huge compared to the rest of most builds, so an epoxy that is more forgiving to mix, has better working characteristics, and will never blush is a big win.

Posted: **Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:08 pm**

Today's update:
Turned on the heaters, brought the epoxy in from the cold to warm and started putting down fiberglass. This time I took time to make sure everything was warm.

Also, put in the transom piece.
Predrilled hole s for several screws, a few weep holes to make sure the epoxy was spread out and lots of clamps.
The glass in the corners came out fine with the extra care taken to warm thins up.
Rover 1

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:27 pm**

Well, the money is flowing. Just put a deposit on a 40HP Suzuki outboard! Comes with controls, prop and installation. When the gentleman at the counter put on the sales tax I nearly had a heart attach. It adds up FAST!
Price wise they were all about the same and ALL had availability issues Yamaha was six month lead time, Tohatsu a little better, Honda I did not even consider because they just cost to much. Mercury and Suzuki were the only ones in stock and they were left overs. So I went with Suzuki. Apparently All vendors have supply issues right now. One person said consider waiting until next year to launch the boat.
Boat is progressing. Initial stringer installation is done. They sit flush with the bottom until the front 2 feet. The bottom is a little bit off, maybe 1/8-3/16", here. Just not sure why.
They were spaced up a bit with popsickle sticks.
Rover 1

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:35 pm**

Good news on the motor, that will be sweet!

If you don't yet have a trailer I would start shopping. Action marine in Holyoke did a nice job finding me one, I had called probably 20 other dealers before I stumbled on them.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:35 pm**

Vt_Jeff,
They may be to far out for me. I have a couple of dealers looking now. The same story as the motors, stock unavailable or several months lead time.

Which brings me to a general question for the peanut gallery.
I would like to put a bench seat in front if frame C.
Can the C+ Frame be used or does that have dimensions for further back behind C?
That is, use frame C as the back side of the bench. with forward side between B and C.
Rover

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:14 am**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:35 pm Vt_Jeff,
They may be to far out for me. I have a couple of dealers looking now. The same story as the motors, stock unavailable or several months lead time.

Which brings me to a general question for the peanut gallery.
I would like to put a bench seat in front if frame C.
Can the C+ Frame be used or does that have dimensions for further back behind C?
That is, use frame C as the back side of the bench. with forward side between B and C.
Rover

Why not you can do just about anything once you have the sole built. I have a storage area and bench seat with cushion in front of my console on my OD18.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:44 am**

If the sole is not on yet you can fillet and tape the frame to the hull.

The C+ frame is between C and D. Average the dimensions of B and C, to make B+ for example, and it will fit in between those two at least with a bit of gap filler glue. You could use cardboard as a template if you want, or cut slightly oversize and trim.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:43 pm**

Thanks Oneway,
About what I though to do.
Tomorrow is tab and glass stringer day. Have to do it alone. The help dried up.
Rover

Posted: **Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:08 pm**

Today was a do and don't day.
Ordered and actually had delivered on same day wood for the bench seat, Gunnels and and bow cover.
tried to glass the stringers in- Don't do that! My back is such that kneeling caused my hamstrings to spasm. Did not think that pain could be re-defined after last year's surgery.
Managed about 3 feet of glass before I gave up.
I am planning on ordering the trailer tomorrow, I hope.
Decided to glass the deck pieces before putting them in, won't happen for a while. I used 6oz glass. The first piece used a total of 6 ounces for one side I was expecting 9oz for the slightly larger mid-section. actually took closer to 15oz. Sucked up the epoxy. I was surprised that both pieces glassed were still flat with no noticeable warping from sitting around for 9 months.
Rover 1

Posted: **Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:12 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:08 pm Today was a do and don't day.
Ordered and actually had delivered on same day wood for the bench seat, Gunnels and and bow cover.
tried to glass the stringers in- Don't do that! My back is such that kneeling caused my hamstrings to spasm. Did not think that pain could be re-defined after last year's surgery.
Managed about 3 feet of glass before I gave up.
I am planning on ordering the trailer tomorrow, I hope.
Decided to glass the deck pieces before putting them in, won't happen for a while. I used 6oz glass. The first piece used a total of 6 ounces for one side I was expecting 9oz for the slightly larger mid-section. actually took closer to 15oz. Sucked up the epoxy. I was surprised that both pieces glassed were still flat with no noticeable warping from sitting around for 9 months.
Rover 1

That sucks about the back! Rough when all the other pieces fall into place for boatbuilding and you get sidelined by physical issues, I hope you get on the other side of that soon.

Did you pre-seall that wood before glassing? I'm curious if that would make any difference on consumption. I have not traditionally done that but planning on it for my deck.

Posted: **Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:34 am**

Hi Jeff,
Back is what it is won't get any better. I did explain my problem to a couple of friends and they offered to help for a couple of days.
As for pre-coating the wood, I did that. That's what surprised me. The amount of epoxy that just got consumed by the wood was surprising.
Anyway, this will make it easier for me to drop the deck in later.
Rover 1

Posted: **Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:28 pm**

Why not put a board across the stringers and sit on that?

Posted: **Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:26 pm**

HI Oneway,
Well, the way my back was repaired I cannot sit vertically with my knees beyond 90degrees. Entire spine is fused into one piece. I do pretty well at what I can do all things considered.
It was brutal surgery.
I should be able to have my son help tomorrow. Was able to do the outside of the first stringer and should be able to do the outside of the other in the morning.
Rover 1

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:26 pm**

I have a mystery.
I went to put in the frames for a test fit. and measure from the bow to the supposed location of frame A. Put the frame in and did not even sit close. In order to make it fit I had to move it back 2 inches. Decided that can't be right so put in the put in the bulkhead panel with the motor well sides. Measured each frame location E, D, C, B, and A the measurements from From frame to frame are dead on. Where did the extra 2" come? Any way moving on.
The stringers are mostly taped in place, all the frame locations parts are ready to be glued in and 2 of the three deck sections have one side glassed and the other coated with neat epoxy. It has been pretty cold lately so not much work done. Epoxy has been taking quite a while to set.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:27 pm**

Not sure why I have 4 of the same picture. Kept recieving "HTTP" errors.
Rover

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:35 pm**

the overlapping glass in the V can make the bulkhead frames a bit awkward putting back in. If I remember right I rounded the V and corners off of my bulkheads and still needed to do a little trimming in places to get them to fit.

Could this be the issue you are having? Of course measure and measure and measure before cutting

Another potential issue is as you get towards the bow where the side panels flare out, they kind of want to 'squeeze' back in, which pushes the bow point down and gives the dreaded 'droopy bow' some people struggle with. Perhaps make sure the Bow is pulled back to the proper distance from the transom, and the sides are pushed out to the proper width.

Posted: **Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:41 pm**

Hi Narfi,
I will try your suggestions.

The cold has slowed down the process on the boat itself even with the heaters running full blast.
So I have moved to the basement. Target, the console.
I cut the steering hole for the NFB steering. Should have done that after the fairing though.
THe console is going to have more holes and ports than a wheel of Swiss cheese.

Some where there should be a label that says Beef Wellington. An Epicurian Delight.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:46 pm**

Finally found someone light enough to do the seems on the boat's stringers. Now completely glassed.
Next step is to glass in the cross hatch pieces. I can reach those so do not need a flexible back.
All the widths on the side to side measurements are pretty close so no worries there.
More pictures in a few days.
Rover1

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:03 pm**

Rover1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:46 pm Finally found someone light enough to do the seems on the boat's stringers.

I hope you had them do the work before you fed them the Wellington, that looks absurdly delicious!

Glad things are progressing!

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:19 pm**

I have a question about old glass.
Does the age of the glass, guess it would be the binder they use, affect the absorbtion of epoxy? I had a couple of pieces that needed to be pulled out because the epoxy did not absorb well. anyone else have that happen?

Meantime, Will glass in the bulkhead then Frame A over the next couple of days. If it's warm enough.

Rover 1

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:21 pm**

I have used some real old glass with no problem. But this glass did not have any matt on it.

The Wellington does look killer

Posted: **Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:43 am**

Thanks Fuzz,
Must have been some contamination on the glass then.
Rover

Posted: **Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:34 am**

Hi Rover1 sorry for missing your question on your frames not fitting quite right. But yes once you glass the seams at the edges and the V you always need to cut the frames back a little at those points.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:35 am**

Hi Tom,
Not a problem.

Current progress:
All deck frames glassed in
Bulkhead glassed
Frame A tabbed in place
Next steps:
install cleats
glass in sidewalls for bulkhead and transom.

Rover1

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:03 am**

Been progressing slowly working mostly alone.
Stringers now completely installed
deck has been test fit and appears okay.
stringers have holes for tubes drilled to run if needed.
starting to think about seating and will continue with the bench seat in front. Might put a removable section in middle.
Taping in the splash well.
Cutting holes for components on the console
Decided to use the console kit as supplied.
Had to remove frame A and working on re-installing.
Hopefully pictures this weekend.
Rover1

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:02 pm**

Hey that sounds like some pretty good progress, working alone.

Let me know if I can help you select the right prop for the motor you get as you get to that point.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:09 pm**

Thanks Tom,
Certainly will let you know when ready for prop.
I figure the following to have a head start:
boat= 900lbs, just a guess
Suzuki 40hp motor ~228lbs
two really big individuals 600lbs
9 gal fuel ~60lbs
Cooler and ice 50lbs
Full 24 gallon Livewell 200lbs
gear 150-200
2188lbs! Have I sunk the boat yet?
Also putting foam in all unused spaces under the deck.
A lot of times I fish alone and a lot of the above gear will not be there.It is going to be tight for a June launch time wise.
Rover1

Posted: **Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:41 am**

HI All,
Prepping for deck install this week. Couple of pictures of current planned layout. What is not shown is the bench in front of the console.

Posted: **Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:00 am**

Nice progress!!! Jeff

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:32 pm**

Progress:
Fixed in place the aft deck section. Not glassed.
put in two tubes two run wires in the future.
Have started cutting holes for the controls and steering.
Ordered another gallon of epoxy.
starting to run low on wood flour. Can source it locally if needed though.
Also, have plenty of glass bubbles and the fumed silica.
Not sure why but running out of 12oz 6" glass tape. I have two roll of the 6oz tape from other projects.

: first deck section in place.

Rover 1

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:16 am**

I am a lousy carpenter so I need lots of wood flour to fill my boo-boo's . Wood flour is the cheapest thing when building one of these boats so what I did was have BBC fill the shipping boxes of epoxy with as many bags of wood flour that would fit. After a few epoxy orders I now have almost enough to build a whole boat out of

Doing it that way sure cut down on shipping costs.

Posted: **Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:06 pm**

Painting Bilge: Has anyone used the interlux brand paint for painting the areas below deck? if so, did you have any issues with the BilgeKote line?
Instructions say to be careful when used on epoxy surfaces..
Never painted the bilges before but would like to this time.

Also, I know the notes say what the lamination is for the deck seams but cannot find the reference. One layer of 6", 12oz fiberglass tape or two?

Starting to put in the cleats for everything that needs them. rear hatches, the bench and various points on frame A and the front section. Cleats on for the side rails this week.
Starting all the little chores that make the boat complete.
Rover 1