No, the stringers do not matter at this point. They will support the bottom panels while you stitch and build the taped seams. Nothing should be fastened to the stringers.
new build GT Cruiser 23
Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
Jacques Mertens - Designer
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
I think because you did the stern transom so perfectly; it has created both a false expectation of perfect joinery and perhaps some difficulty for joinery.
The science of these seams is they must be open for epoxy putty about 1/8" minimum and about 3/8" maximum. After gaps are larger than 3/8", the putties do not 'stay home' and will sag out. There are strategies for dealing with this...but first, stitch the way I said and send up a picture.
It is possible you saw me post something about laminated timber seams; those are 1mm seams. These are larger. If the stern seams are a bit tight; you may need to make the hull vee a bit more open with the oscillating tool I recommended.
like Fuzz said and I said over the phone; easy to remedy now and I actually think things will work fine and your expectations for perfect seams is a bit too much..
The science of these seams is they must be open for epoxy putty about 1/8" minimum and about 3/8" maximum. After gaps are larger than 3/8", the putties do not 'stay home' and will sag out. There are strategies for dealing with this...but first, stitch the way I said and send up a picture.
It is possible you saw me post something about laminated timber seams; those are 1mm seams. These are larger. If the stern seams are a bit tight; you may need to make the hull vee a bit more open with the oscillating tool I recommended.
like Fuzz said and I said over the phone; easy to remedy now and I actually think things will work fine and your expectations for perfect seams is a bit too much..
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
You may need to cut off those cleats as well if they are epoxied. They will make it impossible to properly fillet and tab the hull to transom intersection.
Last edited by fallguy1000 on Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
Thank you for the pictures.
The dimensions of the kit are correct. I see what looks like 1/8" difference, that could be due to the plywood expanding and contracting, it could be the way one holds the measuring tape but it is not a dimension problem. Most of my designs are built with 1/2" gaps and that is perfectly fine. It is stronger than a tight fit.
I think the problem is misaligned panels but as Fuzz says, it's no big deal.
The first thing I would do is getting rid of that overlap at the keel.
Panels should never push against each other, we want a gap there.
I can't repeat this enough: we need a gap. For the keel overlap, I would run a jig saw through it, shave a little bit of that edge.
Once the panels are free to move, once there is a sufficient gap, it will be easy to pull all that together.
If you can, get rid of those little blocks, use stitches.
Please do not let anybody tell you that you need a tight fit. Thousands of my designs were built that way but almost each time we have problems, it is due to panels pushing against each other. Those are not wooden boats but composite boats with a plywood core. The strength comes from the fiberglass.
In your case, it was probably too tight somewhere and something had to give, the plywood in this case.
The dimensions of the kit are correct. I see what looks like 1/8" difference, that could be due to the plywood expanding and contracting, it could be the way one holds the measuring tape but it is not a dimension problem. Most of my designs are built with 1/2" gaps and that is perfectly fine. It is stronger than a tight fit.
I think the problem is misaligned panels but as Fuzz says, it's no big deal.
The first thing I would do is getting rid of that overlap at the keel.
Panels should never push against each other, we want a gap there.
I can't repeat this enough: we need a gap. For the keel overlap, I would run a jig saw through it, shave a little bit of that edge.
Once the panels are free to move, once there is a sufficient gap, it will be easy to pull all that together.
If you can, get rid of those little blocks, use stitches.
Please do not let anybody tell you that you need a tight fit. Thousands of my designs were built that way but almost each time we have problems, it is due to panels pushing against each other. Those are not wooden boats but composite boats with a plywood core. The strength comes from the fiberglass.
In your case, it was probably too tight somewhere and something had to give, the plywood in this case.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
I am not certain about one thing. Was, at some point, the whole hull stitched together with the two transoms in place?
Jacques Mertens - Designer
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
the sides and bottom were stitched, but not the bow transom per our phone call
If the panels are too tight on the other end; this would drive things apart on the bow, but I think she can get it to work.
Working to perfection at this part of the build is always some trouble...
Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
The whole hull, transoms included, should have been assembled before starting with epoxy. Side and bottom panels stitched LOOSE and transoms either stitched or fastened with screws driven loose, not tight.
This is still very easy to fix but all through the process, keep in mind that we want gaps and that the panels should be somewhat free to find their place.
It looks like you will need some straps to pull the sides and bottom together, that's fine. Do not worry about getting the panels flush with the the transom. I see one side that sticks out further than the bottom. That's because it is either misaligned or because too much pressure pushes it out. Once you get the panels loose where you can, it will get closer. Right now, that panel is pushed somewhere, I guess in the middle. You will trim what sticks out behind the bow transom later, don't trim right now, Release the pressure on the panels first.
You may have helpers that will say that you need a tight fit. Good wooden boat builders want a tight fit, we don't. Don't push the panels, it will create more problems.
Once you have nice fair panels, trim the bow transom to fit between the hull panels. trim to leave a gap.
This is still very easy to fix but all through the process, keep in mind that we want gaps and that the panels should be somewhat free to find their place.
It looks like you will need some straps to pull the sides and bottom together, that's fine. Do not worry about getting the panels flush with the the transom. I see one side that sticks out further than the bottom. That's because it is either misaligned or because too much pressure pushes it out. Once you get the panels loose where you can, it will get closer. Right now, that panel is pushed somewhere, I guess in the middle. You will trim what sticks out behind the bow transom later, don't trim right now, Release the pressure on the panels first.
You may have helpers that will say that you need a tight fit. Good wooden boat builders want a tight fit, we don't. Don't push the panels, it will create more problems.
Once you have nice fair panels, trim the bow transom to fit between the hull panels. trim to leave a gap.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
Do not be afraid of gaps. And I mean big gaps. As long as you can cover the back side of the gap with packing tape to hold the glue in place you can fill the gap. We all hope to do things so huge gaps do not happen but if they do it is not the end of the world. The worst part is filling big gaps tales lots of epoxy glue so it drives the build cost up. But in the end epoxy glue is one of the least expensive things in boat building.
Sounds like JM and Dan will help get you over this little hurdle
Sounds like JM and Dan will help get you over this little hurdle
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
Don't run away Fuzz. Your wisdom is helpful and I am not always first to answer.Fuzz wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:54 pm Do not be afraid of gaps. And I mean big gaps. As long as you can cover the back side of the gap with packing tape to hold the glue in place you can fill the gap. We all hope to do things so huge gaps do not happen but if they do it is not the end of the world. The worst part is filling big gaps tales lots of epoxy glue so it drives the build cost up. But in the end epoxy glue is one of the least expensive things in boat building.
Sounds like JM and Dan will help get you over this little hurdle
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23
I don't plan on going anywhere but I know too many cooks can spoil the soup too Not having this boat plans nor having built one like it I am not sure how much I can offer. With JM's wisdom and you speaking with her on phone I think things will all work out. I know we all want every build to be a success and try to make it so.
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