new build GT Cruiser 23

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LaChefels
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by LaChefels »

The last sentence maybe confusing—fiberglass tape on the seam joining the hull panels

fallguy1000
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by fallguy1000 »

So, those seams are too rough to glass. I recommend you find a tool that can help you fill them one time after sanding.

I use a small plastic tool from Amazon $8.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017Z70H ... asin_title

The radius you create needs to be about 3/8", but not so much you damage the glue joint, although it can happen. You may feel compelled to repair the seam after sanding if there are dips or holes; you can do that same day as tape if you are handy enough with making the radius nice. After applying the filler, take a 4" trowel and scrap away any humps on the hull of excess filler on each side.

Then, precoat the seam with epoxy. Precoating is done because plywood left in the sun can drysuck the resin from the tape. Wait about 30 minutes after precoating. The resin will be gelling.

Taping in the sun is really hard because the epoxy will kick off on you. I see you are in the shade; pick cooler time of day to do the epoxy work.

If you plan to wet the tape on the boat; prewet over the already wetted hull edges with a 4"-6" roller real fast and then unroll the tape. Your friend can anchor the tape while you place it. Make all your tapes a hair long..you can trim them later.

Biax tapes will not easily wet from the top, so wetting the boat or plastic on a table first, is essential.

I almost always wet on a table on plastic and roll tapes onto a cardboard tube and then back onto the boat. But not dealing with 90 degree temps.

Tape wetout.... 12 oz biax tapes are 12 oz per yard fabric and 9 pieces 36" long is a yard and would use 12 oz resin to wet...or a little over 1 ounce per 3 feet, with roller loss, call it 1.5 oz per 3' of tape...so I'd mix resin at 1/2 oz per foot, plus 4 oz for the roller

Mix the resin in a one gallon container or after mixing move it to one immediately. A wide shallow pan is also okay. You do NOT want the resin in a high small cylinder.

Honestly, I think you ought to slow down some. Aim for getting the edges looking good and cutting your tapes. After the edges are nice, you can sand them a time and precoat the boat. Let it cure, sand it all with 60 grit a bit and then dryfit tapes.

As a rookie, you need to start slow, so star on the shorter sides as well.

A db1200 tape 24' long is about a yard of fabric and will use about 12 oz of epoxy to wetout. It is a bit much for an amateur to start learning in Texas heat, so please take my advice and do the short ends first.
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LaChefels
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by LaChefels »

Hi Dan,
We’ve been starting work at 6:15 am and finishing by 9:00 before temps hit 85.
Tomorrow we will sand the lumpy parts. I just ordered the tool you recommended. Thank you.
Do you have any pictures of a proper looking sanded radius you can share?
How,s your house in Corpus coming along?

jacquesmm
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by jacquesmm »

I would not agonize over the exact shape and size of that radius.
The putty is just part of the sandwich core, the strength comes the tape and later, from the wide fabric overlaps. As long as there is no air in the seam, you will be fine.
The main point to focus on is to avoid air bubbles. Even a very experienced laminator will not be able to bend 12 oz. biaxial over a radius smaller than 3/8. For that reason, I often specify 1/2" but larger is fine.
Wet on wet is always stronger and faster but there is another side to this coin: an excessively thick stack will get too hot and will create air bubbles. You would have to grind and do it again. Two layers of 12 oz. at a time will be perfect, 3 layers is something to watch but not difficult with a good bubbler breaker roller. More than 3 is not recommended.

Try to get that chine seam fair, almost straight. Not for structural strength but for aesthetics. Most of that line will be in the water or hidden by the booth line but a wavy chine edge is not pretty. Check with a batten or, if you use that tool, run it along a guide, a long batten.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

fallguy1000
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by fallguy1000 »

LaChefels wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:26 pm Hi Dan,
We’ve been starting work at 6:15 am and finishing by 9:00 before temps hit 85.
Tomorrow we will sand the lumpy parts. I just ordered the tool you recommended. Thank you.
Do you have any pictures of a proper looking sanded radius you can share?
How,s your house in Corpus coming along?
I took a picture. This radius is a little tighter than 3/8". I have gotten to be an expert. Anything this sharp will be trouble for you. The human thumb is a good gauge.

Jacques is correct about perfection; perfection can be the enemy of the good as you know in grilling. Anything perfect is overcooked usually.

Glad to hear you are working a cooler time. When I sand, I sand a bisecting flat of about 5/16", then I roll over the sharps. Bisecting means splitting the angles. I use 40-60 grit on a Festool Rts400 for this kind of work. Start by sanding the flat at 1/4" and see how it goes..

The architect is sending our draft drawings to structural engineering this week and the next few weeks we will be rearranging the bathroom and specifying lighting and wiring, etc.

Once the drawings are done, we will submit to HOA for approval and get two bids. Then hopefully start building in August/September if all goes well. I have so much work to do; it is easy to get overwhelmed, so focused on the boat for now.
2477988F-D686-4AC6-8286-97974AF42E95.jpeg
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fallguy1000
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by fallguy1000 »

Also, I made a homemade sanding tool for this type of work and fairing

I hotglued a board to a piece of 1.5" pvc, then ripped the pvc in half on the table saw. Then ripped that in half.

Then glued sa velcro to the inside. It holds a piece of hook and loop paper nice. Comes in even more handy when final fairing outside corners. Gotta be a little careful doing paper changes to not rip out the glued on velcro, but this tool has probably 200 shop hours, so I share.
image.jpg
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LaChefels
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by LaChefels »

Thanks Jacques sure appreciate the help.
Thanks Dan for the picture and info.
Glad you’re making progress on the house plans.

fallguy1000
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by fallguy1000 »

Also, primary bonding is always ideal, but not practical for the beginner. It is better to stop and secondary bond than risk the work kicking before you finish. Keep epoxy at 72F, yes, in the house.

Do not begin if you feel like you're gonna lose the batch.

If epoxy starts to kick on you you must be ready to end quick.

This does not mean you can't work green on green. For example, let's say you wetout one tape at 7am and finish at 7:45 and have some epoxy left in the pail. You can start a new batch and new tape, but in Texas, your first batch leftover is almost useless and should not be used for anything that cannot be finished in 5-10 minutes. Avoid mixing on the prior batch as well; it will exo and ruin the next batch. I do try, now and then to reuse my mixing pail, but only if it is just residue on the edges.

I always mark time on any serious work. Meaning I know when I mix and how long I have to work. For your first effort, mark time on a short tape and learn how well you do against the gel time to compare to the full tape and learn the workpace.

Normally, I do not go on and on, but people in Florida and the south have special situations in not climate controlled areas that make laminating harder for amateurs. These early lessons and warnings are meant to help you do full lamination.

A short tape on the bow or stern should take you about 3 minutes to prep and stir resin, two minutes to roll the subsrrate with epoxy, one minute to roll the tape and 5 minutes to top roll and final wetout..., so those tapes should take a good laminator no more than 15 minutes each start to finish...for example

Consider the full pieces of glass...they need to be done in under an hour...unless you have 2 hour tropical epoxy.
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fallguy1000
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by fallguy1000 »

Not to beat a dead horse, but I always roll fabric off a tube unless it is 10 oz or less woven. So, it might be good practice for you to do biax tapes on a roll and learn how to roll and unroll them..

Let me know if you are using woven tapes only, those could be wetted tops down.
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TomW1
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Re: new build GT Cruiser 23

Post by TomW1 »

Hey Dan great to hear you have an architech started on the house in TX, I designed and went through the architech selecting a primary builder and sub contractors and I will tell you not every step of the way was pleasant. The primary contracrtor should be able to get most of the permits for you as I recall, I only had to get the water and sewage ones. You know the stinky ones. :lol: But TX may be different and you or the Architech may have to get the permits. It never goes as fast as you want it to go.

The number of contractor choices has me concerned. Only 2? My choice was 4 and if your architchitech canot not provide that many I would ask why. I guarantee the two will be the highest priced but may not be the best.

Some of the things to watch for raising the wall outlets to 18" istead of what ever they consider they standard. My electrion had them had them at 10" and I made him raise them to 18". 18" is a great height for not having to bend down to far yet can be covered by furniture. Also make sure that you have three way switches where you need them, I am still ticked off that I missed that he did not put a 3-way from the entryway to the masterbath One of the outdoor faucets froze the first year they installed it.

The other thing is the number of set of plans you will need. I needed 6-8 me, contractor, framer, plumber, electrician, permit office, water and sewet. Some may need two. These will cost up to $200, they cost me $125 20 years ago. Once you start talking to a contrator he will let you know how many sets of plans he needs.

Now that your moving down to hurricane country your need to be prpared. Heavy bracketing at all the joints, etc, some costs may be d9uble over Minnisoto costs.

Well post some pics as you start the new house.

If I you have any questions or I can help, I have been through this a couple of times.

Tom



Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

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