Jaysen's Helms 24

[Jaysen]

Man that boat was a PIG!

that's how I'm feeling about this Helms. She's very tender so I need to reserve judgment on how she preforms until we are under way with a bit of heel. The J24/30 has a distinct 12° preference for making time. Based on on the shape of the hull interior, I'm thinking I'll have the same experience with this hull. That said, she's not supposed to be a "go fast" boat as the Mrs keep calling her "a camper". That seems ominous.

I was actually considering putting a yanmar in the void. I just can't justify it since I have the outboard bracket, through transom plumbing, and functional systems to support an outboard. The one thing I'm not liking is the need to reach back for speed/transmission change. I would prefer an in cockpit option (for when the boss lady has to navigate). I'm likely to just build and extender that we can put on the transmission and I have a tiller extension for throttle. I just would rather have easy access.

And electric start. But that's being lazy.

I've not seen a lot of Tohatsu up here but I know they are big nearly everyplace south of here. Anyone have a compelling reason to not save the $400 extra needed to get a Yamaha or Honda?

Current hurdle is getting the title in hand. I've talked with all previous owners that are living and we just need the state to reissue as the most recent purchase/sale was a mess. Hoping to have that in a week.

[VT_Jeff]

Man that boat was a PIG!

that's how I'm feeling about this Helms.

SA/Displacement doesn't look piggish to me. My C&C is 17.88, a rocket, and the Helms is 16.94. My Leisure had the mast replaced with a shorter mast with in-mast furling from a Rhodes: small main, no roach, pig.

If you can't get the title is the deal off?

[Jaysen]

Nope. We will get the title, it's just tied up in bureaucracy which has Mrs reluctant to start dropping $$. Also preventing me from getting insurance and other necessities to get proper access to marina. Current marina contract owner is accommodating. We haven't "paid for the boat" formally so everything I'm doing "now" making the boss nervous.

I get the numbers. But she doesn't "feel" fast. I know that seems a bit snooty, but coming from J-Boats fast has some expectations that I'm not seeing. I think part of it is the lighter rigging and sails combined with the more comfortable interior. Once we get her off the dock I think I will pleasantly surprised.

[VT_Jeff]

coming from J-Boats fast has some expectations that I'm not seeing.

Yeah, those expectations are gonna need to be checked. Maybe do a few overnights/weekends on a J-boat to re-calibrate.

edit: Actually that J30 does look fairly comfortable, I had something a lot more day-sailorish in mind.

[Fuzz]

About the outboard. Tohatsu made and maybe still makes all the smaller outboards for many of the other companies. What you get for the extra $400 is a different colour of paint.

[Jaysen]

About the outboard. Tohatsu made and maybe still makes all the smaller outboards for many of the other companies. What you get for the extra $400 is a different colour of paint.

Tohatsu wins then. I figure these baby motors are all self serve for the most part when it comes to tuning and such anyway. I'm really hoping that the test with 6HP proves adequate (max speed before full throttle). I really don't want to need a bigger motor.

[Jaysen]

coming from J-Boats fast has some expectations that I'm not seeing.

Yeah, those expectations are gonna need to be checked. Maybe do a few overnights/weekends on a J-boat to re-calibrate.

edit: Actually that J30 does look fairly comfortable, I had something a lot more day-sailorish in mind.

I would say that the Helms 24 is closer to the J30 for comfort but in the size of the J24/C25 class. So it FEELS super wide and deep. That normally means snail like performance. but the typical max hull speed of 6.8kn (mathematical) seems to be given a lie by the guys upstate racing these on lake Murray. They have GPS tracks showing regular 8-9kn in what would be "typical" wind for us ocean types (15+). Upon asking they are indicating no reefing needed until gusts are 25+ (much like the J30). If I get the same performance out of this hull I will not only be surprised, but I will be very very happy. I assume that the race guys are doing something performance wise that Mrs won't approve.

[VT_Jeff]

coming from J-Boats fast has some expectations that I'm not seeing.

Yeah, those expectations are gonna need to be checked. Maybe do a few overnights/weekends on a J-boat to re-calibrate.

edit: Actually that J30 does look fairly comfortable, I had something a lot more day-sailorish in mind.

I would say that the Helms 24 is closer to the J30 for comfort but in the size of the J24/C25 class. So it FEELS super wide and deep. That normally means snail like performance. but the typical max hull speed of 6.8kn (mathematical) seems to be given a lie by the guys upstate racing these on lake Murray. They have GPS tracks showing regular 8-9kn in what would be "typical" wind for us ocean types (15+). Upon asking they are indicating no reefing needed until gusts are 25+ (much like the J30). If I get the same performance out of this hull I will not only be surprised, but I will be very very happy. I assume that the race guys are doing something performance wise that Mrs won't approve.

I get pretty different theoretical numbers, interested in your math:

Using 1.34 hull speed factor:

20.83 LWL has a max hull speed of 6.11 knots when the boat is flat.

To get to 6.8 theoretical, you'd need 5 more feet of waterline.

8-9 knots would generate some creaking for sure!

[Jaysen]

Figured out lazy jacks today. have them set up to be less stupid and actually raised then lowered sail. I see the value I as was able to properly flake that SOB all by my lonesome.



Ok... need to start thinking past the fuel system/engine as that has been "decided" (new motor, move to perm tank, replumb the deck fill). Current "must fix before leaving dock" are more ground tackle and running rigging.

Ground tackle
Current have 15lb Danforth with 6' chain, no rode. I know for a fact I will be anchoring in the open water OVER NIGHT at a depth of 40-60'. My plan was to keep the Danforth, extend chain to 20' and get 600' of rode. The collective knowledge of the internets say "3/8in is enough".
1. Is 3/8" adequate?
2. Should I consider breaking the 600' into multiple runs of 150'? Thinking it would be easier to manage if I'm only in 10' of water (it does complicate my anchoring system though).
3. Why should't I stick with the Danforth?

running rigging
a lot or the sheets and halyards are suffering from "exposure wear". The is most evident in the jib sheets, jib halyard and main halyard. The sheets and halyards all appear to the way oversized (1/2" - 5/8" ... the largest line on the J30 was 5/8 on the spinnaker). I plan to run with "what I have" for now but need to start planning to replace jib sheets. What is a good place to look for line sizing recommendations? I can't find anything that looks to be relevant as folks are selling based on model and Helms 24 isn't really listed. I figured there should be some calculator based on sail size. Please point the idiot in the right direction.

ancillary junk
Sail covers are shot. Mrs is all "go away" (only about making sail covers... still willing to keep me around). Seems like it should be easy to make as I have the old one for a pattern. Any one have words of warning on this? Smarter to just find a canvas shop and ask them to make it?

Thanks all.

[Jaysen]

I would say that the Helms 24 is closer to the J30 for comfort but in the size of the J24/C25 class. So it FEELS super wide and deep. That normally means snail like performance. but the typical max hull speed of 6.8kn (mathematical) seems to be given a lie by the guys upstate racing these on lake Murray. They have GPS tracks showing regular 8-9kn in what would be "typical" wind for us ocean types (15+). Upon asking they are indicating no reefing needed until gusts are 25+ (much like the J30). If I get the same performance out of this hull I will not only be surprised, but I will be very very happy. I assume that the race guys are doing something performance wise that Mrs won't approve.

I get pretty different theoretical numbers, interested in your math:

Using 1.34 hull speed factor:

20.83 LWL has a max hull speed of 6.11 knots when the boat is flat.

To get to 6.8 theoretical, you'd need 5 more feet of waterline.

8-9 knots would generate some creaking for sure!

That would be a math error on my math... I used the the wrong length... I also used 1.43. sqrt(23)*1.43. So I forked it all up.

The GPS data is solid. I need to ask them if it was flying the kite or what. The only way I can reconcile that in my head is a massive kite lifting the hull. I've see j24 flying pretty terrifyingly with the kite lifting bows.