Jaysen's Helms 24

Questions about boat repairs with our resins and fiberglass: hull patches, transoms and stringers, foam, rot etc.
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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:43 am I could be wrong, but the throw ring looks like it won't pass the 5 second removal standard.

That is a busy corner..
I think it will pass with no issues. The ring is on an open carrier and the line "was floating". I do have a slipable knot to disconnect the line from the rail on that last loop (3' from rail). It pulls from the cockpit. The ring tends to bounce out in lumps per previous owner, hence the need for attachment.

I hate 90% of the transom right now. It is too crowded and not nearly as functional as it should be. That said, most short-handed sailing on tillers is managed from mid cockpit or further forward. In theory, I'm only going to be back there to let ... personal water ... over the side :)
fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:43 am Is the engine working now?
maybe. Ran for 2hr under load, no issues. I'm not sure what to do with it. The bottom of the ocean seems like a good place for it to me.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

fallguy1000
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by fallguy1000 »

Sorry to tell you, again, but that series of engines I really hate with a passion. The all in one concept was an engineer's wet dream and a helmsman's nightmare.

If they flood and they do if you leave the 'cold' button; you are screwed clearing a flood which takes 5 seconds in a normal engine. One bit of advice I can offer is to never take your hand off the idle/cold/warm/run button until it is in the run position. It seems corny, but could save you from the bridge. And probably never leave the dock without it warm.
My boat build is here -------->

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glossieblack
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by glossieblack »

OK, I understand your current backstay tensioner and topping lift setup now. My two cents worth ..... you'll find sailing easier and safer if you can pull on or release the topping lift when the boom is off centre (think running down wind and you want to shake out a reef), and you revert to the backstay tensioning system we discussed earlier.
Jaysen wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:54 am 9101
Currently building Jacques Mertens ST21 "Skinnydip". Boating adventures: Splash testing and using 'Skinnydip, as a basis of further building refinement; Adams 44’ sailing sloop "Great Sandy" (cruising and maintaining); Iain Oughtred Feather Pram "Mini Dip" (building); Jacques Mertens R13 "Wood Duck" (built and due for maintenance).

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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:18 am Sorry to tell you, again, but that series of engines I really hate with a passion.
...
And probably never leave the dock without it warm.
I actually like the design as it makes it much easier when you don't have 3 hands. Keep in mind that the motor is not used for steering. One hand is on the rudder tiller, one hand is on the throttle which means I am one hand short for managing the F-N-R which gets used a LOT when backing into a slip under heavy current with a 5ft lead board hanging under your boat :)

That said, I do recognize the issues you raise. At this point, they aren't the cause.

And I always run at idle on the dock until the thermostat opens before untie. Dad had an old "ever-rude" back in the 70s on a god's aged woodie. the only time that thing would move the boat reliably was when it had a good 5min warm-up. My mom called it "sunscreen time". Bad disposed of that motor and boat after the second year. "We paddle it more than power it and we already have a canoe."
glossieblack wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:54 am OK, I understand your current backstay tensioner and topping lift setup now. My two cents worth ..... you'll find sailing easier and safer if you can pull on or release the topping lift when the boom is off centre (think running down wind and you want to shake out a reef), and you revert to the backstay tensioning system we discussed earlier.
Jaysen wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:54 am 9101
I'm undecided on exactly what I'm going to do. At a minimum, I'm going to simplify the topping lift setup and move the backstay mess out to the split attachment points. I get the point about being able to adjust the topping while underway. I kind of think all I need to do is use a simpler block (2:1 should be enough) with a jam cleat on the boom. I'll probably leave it "as is" until I drop the mast in the next couple weeks.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by glossieblack »

Jaysen wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:17 pm I get the point about being able to adjust the topping while underway. I kind of think all I need to do is use a simpler block (2:1 should be enough) with a jam cleat on the boom.
Well worth a try. :D
Currently building Jacques Mertens ST21 "Skinnydip". Boating adventures: Splash testing and using 'Skinnydip, as a basis of further building refinement; Adams 44’ sailing sloop "Great Sandy" (cruising and maintaining); Iain Oughtred Feather Pram "Mini Dip" (building); Jacques Mertens R13 "Wood Duck" (built and due for maintenance).

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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by terrulian »

I get the point about being able to adjust the topping while underway.
Why? You gonna race this baby? Yer talking about what, another 1/4 knot?
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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

terrulian wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:25 pm
I get the point about being able to adjust the topping while underway.
Why? You gonna race this baby? Yer talking about what, another 1/4 knot?
More about being able to manage reefs easier. Pull the lift tight, move Cunningham up, slack halyard a bit, tighten Cunningham, release outhaul, move clew, tighten outhaul, tighten halyard.

I’m sure that is wrong but that’s how I’m thinking it will play out from the comfort of the couch.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by terrulian »

If the sail is cut right and the topping lift properly adjusted, you don't have to touch it. Close reach>ease main sheet>ease vang>lower halyard>either hook reef earing or tighten downhaul>tighten halyard>tighten outhaul>sheet in, harden vang. A lot of books say something about the topping lift; I don't touch it for reefing. We can discuss this further but it's a little tedious in writing. The topping lift should be adjusted so that it is just a bit slack when the main is sheeted in tight. That way, when you lower the halyard, the boom drops just, like 6 inches at most.
Another use for the topping lift underway is in very light air, pull the traveler up to windward and very slightly tighten the topping lift to put more camber in the sail. I never do this, too much bother.
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by glossieblack »

terrulian's solution is by far the simplest way to go, if the boom drop does not threaten to make egg noddles from the noggins of those in the cockpit. :wink:
Currently building Jacques Mertens ST21 "Skinnydip". Boating adventures: Splash testing and using 'Skinnydip, as a basis of further building refinement; Adams 44’ sailing sloop "Great Sandy" (cruising and maintaining); Iain Oughtred Feather Pram "Mini Dip" (building); Jacques Mertens R13 "Wood Duck" (built and due for maintenance).

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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

Well it’s been an interesting couple days.

Had a 3am call with India on Thursday so worked till noon then took Friday off. Spent Thursday night on the boat. Took the stove. Made a real breakfast. That was the best burnt bacon ever.

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The winds Friday were 15kn gusts to 20kn. Invited an experienced world cruiser to help me learn how she sails. As we were going over the boat he looked at the topping lift mess. “That’s a pile of over kill” he said. We moved forward to the mast and he found an in mast line that I didn’t remember being there. I shrugged, loosed the line and the mast dropped about 6”! I have a fully adjustable topping lift. We removed the unneeded blocks and put it back together.

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And then it became interesting. You’ll notice there are no photos…

Let me say, this little boat moves. I’m thrilled at how quick she responds to everything. You can feel the hull “jump” we you make an adjustment that powers her up a bit. We were able to make headway in 3kn current tacking nose into 15kn wind. I never expected her to behave that well.

We ran about an hour… full sails. No reefs. We agreed “nothing but tacking until we make sure everything works under load”. Several marina members gave us a “whoop” as we would past their slips. We had a couple radios calls “you did it! She’s off the dock!” That really made me smile.

Eventually I looked at Patrick and said “it’s time to run some gybes”. Three things I avoid when sailing, spinnakers, low winds, gybes. But you MUST know how a boat will handle gybes. We rocketed over to a large open area way outside of the traffic and set up for some pucker factor.

First, that lady hopped right up to speed the second I rolled the wind to 20deg off dead aft starboard. Even without the whisker the jib filled and stayed that way. Patrick and I triple checked everything and talked through our steps. Once we were comfy I called out “gybe port!” Patrick yelled back “gybe port ready”. I took a deep breath and and hollered “gybe ho!”

Everything was perfect! We were on a long line so we talked through the next gybe. We reset, presorted lines and cycled through the gybe. Hot damn! 2 controlled gybes. We couldn’t celebrate long. Short line so we scrambled to reset and sort lines.

“Gybe port!”
“Gybe port ready!”
“Gybe ho!!!”
BOOM!!!

Somehow we missed shorting the main sheet and securing the traveler car. We both saw it happening and watched the standing rigging. Nothing. Moved. She is solid! No sloppy stays. No loose plates. Solid as rodeo bull.

We were on a long run again so we took a couple minutes to go over everything. As we neared the middle flat we opted to take the long way around into a tack so we could head back to the marina. We knew we had a boat that would make short work of the trip. 20 minutes and 373635284937 tacks later we made five feet of ground back to the marina.

W. T. F. ???

We assumed we were running into some shoddy sail trimming or maybe we picked up a crab trap. We couldn’t see anything wrong. At some point we looked up at the sail trim and Patrick says “didn’t you have in mast slides on the main? And when did the jib rip?”

That uncontrolled gybe snapped 12 out of 16 sail slides and blew the seams and luff out of two mid panels. Suddenly the lack of progress made sense. We made a makeshift deeper than deep reef to get the luff tightened and magically we were back on the dock in less than 30min.

The consolation here is that these were expected failures. I knew the jib was thin and had been left in the sun with no UV layer. Those slides were probably original equipment. I set out in high winds, full sail, knowing that I would probably break something.

This morning I headed over to the boat, pulled the sails and started planning for extended dock time. I’m calling the original sailmaker from the Helms factory on Monday to figure out the options for the jib. I assume I’ll be waiting a bit to order as I need some budget recovery. While I'm waiting, the mast will be dropped, lights repairs/replaced, and sheves/blocks serviced. There will be some cleaning and painting as well.

So that’s my story for this weekend. Im not quite as crazy as Barraman, but I’m not far from it.

And just to end on a positive… the scene on my way to meet the Mrs for dinner was positively beautiful!


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My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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