Jaysen's Helms 24

Questions about boat repairs with our resins and fiberglass: hull patches, transoms and stringers, foam, rot etc.
terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by terrulian »

If I remember correctly, the Sail Warehouse was where we got the sails for our Catalina 22. They were fine.
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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

I’m kind of on the fence here.

I have the factory sailmaker and access to the Helms family. These guys literally built my hull. As in we talked about the layup schedule and how they improved the build over the years giving me much to think about …

While I don’t want to spend a fortune on a sail, I have to consider the potential loss of access to info/people.

That said I’m looking at several different options.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

Closest things they have were $400 more than what I’m being quoted for an original. I might call them tomorrow and see if I’m missing something obvious.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Fuzz »

I have been lead to believe that replacing sails is about the same cost as replacing engines for a power boat. Are you finding this to be true?

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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

With todays motor prices… yes. If you get a cheap, old motor, motor is cheaper.

I’m looking at $1200-1800 for a #1 jib (105) as specified by factory. I can get a #3 (130) but it will be likely to explode with the winds and my “aggressive” style of moving the boat rapidly while screaming “BRING IT” at the top of my lungs. When we started discussing the light wind sails the recommendation was “well, let’s wait for you to get a bit less young because I don’t think you’ll every use a light wind sail when I know you’ve got a big racing chute on that hull.”

Basically just replace with the same thing I just killed but get one a bit beefier.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by terrulian »

$1250 doesn't sound like too much, if the headsail has a foam luff and UV cover. (I'm assuming roller furling.) These add some $$.
Racers will spend $10,000 annually on sails. I'm not a racer, or at least one that will invest that kind of dough.
It depends on what you want, but with respect, I think you're kidding yourself if you think expensive sails will give you a competitive edge and it's not really a race boat. So we're talking about longevity, mainly. You're right about the UV cover for the jib; the two most damaging things for sails are UV radiation and chafe. Chafe is, especially in the short term, more of a concern with the stitching. But that's is a simple repair and you just stay on top of it. Eventually, UV will deteriorate the cloth but this will take 10 years or so.
I had my 22 out by myself in 30+ more than once. This was not on purpose. I was flying the cheap sails from sail warehouse. No damage except to my underwear. Not really, but I would have preferred a little less breeze.
I get the point about a service relationship. But in my experience, that isn't necessarily something you get with a purchase; it has more to do with the guy you deal with. An expensive outfit may be snobs, not that I'd assume that. A good businessman is good to all customers, since even if you don't buy a sail from him this time, he certainly wants to form a relationship for the future.
As to size, I think I'd get about a 125 with the foam luff as mentioned above. You don't need to change down or up unless you're really picky if you can reef the headsail. (A racer would be horrified at this advice.) As to light air sails, I dunno. On our voyage we had a cruising chute and a fairly flat nylon 135. But crossing oceans you have all day to set this stuff up and nothing else to do. Getting the spinny out of it's bag in the locker was not too much trouble but when you're in the ocean it seems like every time it's blowing about right to hoist it, it's on its way to nothing or 30. The flat cut 135 was used on a pole downwind and we used it as a windseeker upwind in light air. It had a wire luff and was easy to hoist. But we didn't use it much for that unless we were bored. So what if you're not going fast?
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

I’m not complaining about $1600 for my “tricked out” jib (125. 6oz Dacron, 4oz Dacron UV guard, furller luff, wire leech, additional 4oz chafing layer 6’ forward from clew and 3’ up (based on wear patterns)). I tried to balance longevity and usefulness for variable winds. I figure if I need more sail for a downwind reach, it’s time to break out the spin.

Realistically I’m not racing unless it’s someplace like the 580 globe. Mrs wouldn’t put up with the nonsense (or the $$).

I get the relationship thing. For the most part these old school shops tend to be all about the boats. Problem is that when push comes to shove, this area turns “pay to play” fast. Given the flat out “we don’t know that brand” I’m getting from every boatyard down here, having the old factory team on my side FEELS smart.

Then again, masthead tri-light isn’t inexpensive.

Luckily I’m on spending freeze because the wife knows that sailing is a disease that leads to wallet anorexia. She is very much against any wallet diseases.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by terrulian »

Why do you want a masthead tri-color? Not saying it's a bad idea, just wondering.
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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

CG regs indicate it is required for new boats. Yes, she’s old, but if I already have to replace all the lighting up there (anchor, steaming, spreader) I can get all three in one unit and eliminate the standard bow/stern lights.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by terrulian »

Please give me a reference for that. I don't see it anywhere, and since I teach this stuff, if there is a new reg I need to know about it.
Unless I misunderstand you or something, I really don't think the list you gave of steaming, spreader, and anchor lights are combinable. You should give me a link to that product, which doesn't make sense to me.
Last edited by terrulian on Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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