PG 20 Wiring Critique

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OrangeQuest
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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by OrangeQuest »

If I buy something electronic and the manufacturer of that device provides me with instructions on how to wire it, I will wire it to the manufacturer's specifications. Even when they show and say to fuse it with XX size and type fuse. If they say to fuse the ground side, then it will get a fuse on the ground side of the circuit regardless of what I am told off the internet.

Those keyboard jockeys will not be anywhere near my boat when it goes up in flames due to bad instructions from them. But, someone please tell me why you would go against the manufacturer's specs on fusing the ground on a ARC when they tell you to do so? Maybe these 2 boat owners took advice from a keyboard jockey that told them NOT to fuse the ground going to them.
I know of two boats that have almost been lost when an ACR burnt!
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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by Jaysen »

I may be the outlier with this thought, but I would use breakers over fuses for all the main trunks. For me that would be
- 50a between bat selector and panel bus
- 20a between panel buss and switch/indicator
- fuses on discrete electronics or direct connected devices (bilge pumps/depth sounder/radio/etc)

My experience is that once you blow a main fuse your fubar unless you know exactly what shorted. If you have a breaker are less likely to need to flag a passing boat to borrow a working radio because you ran out of 20a slow blows.

Granted you may be out of 5a fast blow but is it ever the radio fuse the blows? It’s always the main in my experience.

That said maybe we are all using fuse to mean breaker. Forgive my tanget if that is the case.
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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by fallguy1000 »

TomW1 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:30 pm The black ground wire is never fused, it comes from its block strait to the starting battery. All red wires must be fuzed at some point to prevent a surge over electrifiying what they are powering. As far as powering 2 batterie you use a 2 way battery switch. There is a second switch available that will detct when the first battery reaches a full charge and switches to the second battery.

Tom
Devil's advocate. The ground wire can be fused if you have any concern that a hot wire may end up touching it.

In the case of the linked article on acr's, apparently them as well, although I am darned confused as it wasn't mentioned in my install manual. But also, my acr ground wire is not finished and I can easily put a fuse inline to the ground bus and will, thanks to apljak and despite bluesea omitting any mention of it..

And no reason to say I am a keyboard jockey. I am genuinely concerned about a boat fire 100 miles in the gulf. Maybe it is the kick in the hiney I needed Ken..
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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by OrangeQuest »

fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:18 pm
And no reason to say I am a keyboard jockey. I am genuinely concerned about a boat fire 100 miles in the gulf. Maybe it is the kick in the hiney I needed Ken..
No Dan, It's not always about you! LOL :lol: :lol: You are paying a lot of detail as to the way your boat should be wired. I was looking at the schematics on Blue Sea Systems website and not all of their ARCs are fused on the small ground side.

If I was far offshore or even across one of our lakes around me, I would not want to have to fight an electrical fire that with just a few bucks and time I could prevent.

Funny story, on our gas-powered canoe, I installed a marine 12V outlet to plug things into. It has a 10-amp resettable circuit breaker. Had a passenger plug a USB charger into it and then to his phone. We launched before daylight to get to a inshore fishing spot before the tide started to move. A little breezy and had a few breakers coming over the bow and spray blown by the wind. The salt water soaked the complete set up. Few seconds there was flames and smoke all coming from the charging cord. My circuit was protected but you cannot put a fuse on stupid. :doh:
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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by APLJaK »

BarraMan wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:28 pm
2) I have a 12v DC - 12v DC smart charger between the Start battery and the House battery. When the OB is running it charges the Start battery and once the smart charger detects the Start battery is above a certain charge it switches on an directs charge to the House battery. It protects the Start battery by turning off if the Start battery gets below a safe charge.
FWIW, the smart charger is an ACR. It detects voltage levels on the two batteries, redirects the charge as required and isolates the batteries when one goes low.

Exactly what an ACR does. In fact, the newest generation of Blue Sea two circuit chargers have the ACR built in so you can forego an external one. They are pricey though. I use a NOCO 10x2 two circuit charger and a Blue Sea ACR model ACR7610

The final cost here might very well be the same as the all in one Blue Sea solution, but when one component invariably fails, I can replace only the failed part. In theory, this should be cheaper in the long run. Also simpler to trouble shoot individual components.
Last edited by APLJaK on Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by APLJaK »

Jaysen wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:37 pm
My experience is that once you blow a main fuse your fubar unless you know exactly what shorted.
In theory, I agree with you a breaker sounds like a better idea. However, if you blow a fuse or breaker on a main buss you have a serious problem. If there is a short, a breaker will not reset either - and for that matter, you don't want it to as the next step is a melt down or a fire. The biggest advantage is you get several tries to correct the problem, although eventually your breaker will give up as well.

Good advice, don't change a fuse or reset a breaker until you KNOW what caused the issue and have CORRECTED it.

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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by APLJaK »

fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:18 pm
TomW1 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:30 pm The black ground wire is never fused, it comes from its block strait to the starting battery. All red wires must be fuzed at some point to prevent a surge over electrifiying what they are powering. As far as powering 2 batterie you use a 2 way battery switch. There is a second switch available that will detct when the first battery reaches a full charge and switches to the second battery.

Tom
Devil's advocate. The ground wire can be fused if you have any concern that a hot wire may end up touching it.

In the case of the linked article on acr's, apparently them as well, although I am darned confused as it wasn't mentioned in my install manual. But also, my acr ground wire is not finished and I can easily put a fuse inline to the ground bus and will, thanks to apljak and despite bluesea omitting any mention of it..

And no reason to say I am a keyboard jockey. I am genuinely concerned about a boat fire 100 miles in the gulf. Maybe it is the kick in the hiney I needed Ken..
Looks like the instructions for the 7610 ACR from Blue Sea now include the fuse on the ground. The confusing thing is they show between a 1A and a 10A fuse depending upon what you read. Instructions call for 1A. The technical data sheet says <1A should be in the ground wire in a properly functioning system. Therefore, I suppose as long as the fuse goes before the wire you should be good.

Blue Sea ACR7610 instructions

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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by fallguy1000 »

Mine is 7620; never mentions fusing ground.
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viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by APLJaK »

fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:46 pm Mine is 7620; never mentions fusing ground.
That's interesting. The general document on ACRs states you should use a fuse, but it is definitely not on the 7620 installation document. I would reach out to Blue Sea. They have been very accommodating when I have asked questions in the past. Certainly will not hurt to fuse the ground.

Wow, that is a massive ACR rated 500A continuous, 700A intermittent!

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Re: PG 20 Wiring Critique

Post by fallguy1000 »

APLJaK wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:49 pm
fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:46 pm Mine is 7620; never mentions fusing ground.
That's interesting. The general document on ACRs states you should use a fuse, but it is definitely not on the 7620 installation document. I would reach out to Blue Sea. They have been very accommodating when I have asked questions in the past. Certainly will not hurt to fuse the ground.

Wow, that is a massive ACR rated 500A continuous, 700A intermittent!
It is designed to allow essentially jump starting.
My boat build is here -------->

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