LB26

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les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Ooops

Sorry having a bit of a repeat problem with the photos..... Techno I am not !!!

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

Sure looking good. Gonna need more? primer on there to see it better.

Side rails. Hmmm. I'd be less concerned about them. Maybe some marine adhesive or a single screw on the end and adhesive, or a couple screws and glue.

After the glue cures two weeks, you could remove the screws and thickened epoxy fill the holes.
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les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Cheers Dan

Fairing sure goes on and on.....

Now waiting for the Primer to arrive should be here mid next week so have been doing some work on the swim platform, ready for glassing now.

Read through your thread about painting, did I read right you put 3 coats of primmer before final filling and fairing ?

Les
D50243F1-562C-4BD9-94EF-85ABCDA5AD75.jpeg

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

For primer, I got some advice from Reid at bbc. I followed some of it.

I really like putting on one coat of primer and then sanding first. It really helps with understanding flaws in the work, and inevitably; you find a few high spots and end up sanding diwn to glass. This is the same as a mist coat which can be done with spray paint, but I am just not comfortable applying a different coating.

After the first primer coat dries; you can see imperfections. Take note; those magnify under gloss paints. If you are rolling, make sure to backroll and learn to hold the roller correctly. If you apply the frame side to the edge you are feathering; that is incorrect. If you are confused; let me know. It is critical to do right on boats.

And primers can be rather fast to dry sometimes. I used awlgrip 545 and it dries so fast you can't backroll 2' of it. It is really a spraypaint. I have two gallons of it here which are really useless afaic. Had to use a different paint system.

After sanding and fairing perhaps a bit more; the next thing may be spot priming. If you used fairing; spot prime those areas; then feather them in with 180 grit.

Then prime 3 coats back to back within the recoat reapply windows. Typically 3 days. Then sand it all with 180. It takes a lot of paper to do well. If you feel as though you are not seeing much glass or any darkspots; you can bump up to 220 grit over the entire boat. You may see some orange peel. This is related to the roller choice. Using very fine rollers reduces orange peel as does using thinners. In a perfect world, you can sand orange peel almost completely away with the 3 coat method. You may see some and decide to live with it. I use a festool rts400 and an even hand to sand here. Papers do not last long; typically 2-4 square feet and they are shot. When doing the topcoats; it gets worse. The 3 coats is Reid's advice and really solid.

Then I really prefer washing with soap n water.

A couple of warnings.

Fisheyes have become a nuisance in coatings. We have discovered through extensive dialogue with Epifanes Corp, the sources of the fisheyes are a couple of places.

The one that got me was paint tray plastic liners. They use a silicone mold release when they make them. All paint trays should be lined with aluminum foil. Food gfade foils do not permit the use of silicones. Another siurce of silicone discovered by Epifanes was West Marine rollers were getting cut off by their factory. The cutoff wheel was getting a once a shift spray with silicone to keep the cutoff from building up fibers. Depending upon when 'your' roller came off the line; you'd get more or less contamination.

Anyhow, it is a real nightmare. If you start applying paint and seeing a lot of fisheye; stop painting. These fisheyes become permanent and can only be sanded out. Keep enough solvent on hand to remove it if it happens. Then do some detective wirk. Silicone is the enemy.

Let us know the paint application plan. Rollers can produce good results. All rolling is done vertically; never horizontal. Cutting in can happen with a brush on edges, then the goal is to get close with the roller. For a boat your size 6" or 150mm rollers are what you'll want. Any wider and they 'walk off' due to hull curvature.

Ask away. I kinda have this dialed in.
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TomW1
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Re: LB26

Post by TomW1 »

Good ingormative post Dan.

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Morning All

Thanks for that Dan. There are a few things that I think are lost in translation !!! These are my thoughts.

My plan was to prime as follows

1st coat, then let cure. ( mist coat )
Start fairing again :( ( when 100% happy )
Apply 3 coats and cure.
Final faring with 180 / 220
Apply final coat.
Antifoul to 75mm above DWL
Finish coats to chine.

I am planing a stripe along the hull at about 150mm down from the shear, so I will tape off at this point, this will also allow the laminating of the deck.

I have used a roller for vast amounts of time over the 35/40 years BUT never on a boat.... so once again I have things to master ! I understand the feathering part with the pressure on the roller, putting it to action I will learn :lol:

Questions

Before I start priming is it ok to to hover the hull and then wash and dry the hull a couple of times with soapy water and dry, OR do I have to use a product.

Once all coats are on do I then remove the tape and feather the primmer back to fairing compound.
Likewise with the antifouling do I also feather that back to the primmer.

Fisheye... do I take it these are pin holes in the primmer

So the dreaded rollers ( silicone ) Is it best to use a foam roller ? if so can I some how sterilise these before use.

The best Primmer I could locate here is International Gelshield 200 and Antifoul Micron 350. From my reading they sound ok ?

Well that"s the plan, so where is it flawed :lol:

Cheers

Les

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

les2021 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:45 am Morning All

Thanks for that Dan. There are a few things that I think are lost in translation !!! These are my thoughts.

My plan was to prime as follows

1st coat, then let cure. ( mist coat )
Start fairing again :( ( when 100% happy )
Apply 3 coats and cure.
Final faring with 180 / 220
Apply final coat.
Antifoul to 75mm above DWL
Finish coats to chine.

I am planing a stripe along the hull at about 150mm down from the shear, so I will tape off at this point, this will also allow the laminating of the deck.

I have used a roller for vast amounts of time over the 35/40 years BUT never on a boat.... so once again I have things to master ! I understand the feathering part with the pressure on the roller, putting it to action I will learn :lol:

Questions

Before I start priming is it ok to to hover the hull and then wash and dry the hull a couple of times with soapy water and dry, OR do I have to use a product.

Once all coats are on do I then remove the tape and feather the primmer back to fairing compound.
Likewise with the antifouling do I also feather that back to the primmer.

Fisheye... do I take it these are pin holes in the primmer

So the dreaded rollers ( silicone ) Is it best to use a foam roller ? if so can I some how sterilise these before use.

The best Primmer I could locate here is International Gelshield 200 and Antifoul Micron 350. From my reading they sound ok ?

Well that"s the plan, so where is it flawed :lol:

Cheers

Les
A couple of flaws.

1. You always sand primer before applying final finishes, so sanding is last step before topcoats.

2. Washing with soapy water is good; as long as you don't leave a residue from the water like lime.

3. Antifouling gets applied above dwl some percentage; for your boat 50mm. This is applied last. Consider the entire boat primed and sanded and washed. Next step is to apply the topcoat to the waterline. So, upside down boat gets painted dwl to sheer. Then, after two coats; you sand the topcoat with say 320 and a final coat. Then you mask this off to the 50-75mm above dwl, or upside down the other direction. Concept is you want anti-fouling to extend a bit beyond the dwl to keep marine critters and scum from ruining your topcoat.

4. After topcoating with your boat color in 3, feather in to the masked line by sanding. You should vacuum and clean this line and hull bottom. Then you are ready for anti-fouling. You NEVER feather anti-fouling. You only feather the topcoat. Concept is that antifouling is shedding paint; designed to flake off, so good topcoats never go above it ever.

Notes:

Fisheyes are not pinholes. Pinholing can be filled with fairing compound after you see them on the first primer coats.

Rollers. You need to find very good rollers and they are really not reusable. You do not want to clean them before using them. But if you have fisheyes; the rollers are cleaned in the thinner being used. The danger of cleaning the roller in thinner is damaging it. And it'll need to dry all the way.

The primer is applied to the entire boat; including the bottom. It looks like a good primer you chose. After you paint the main boat final color first, you sand the topcoat to a feather edge, but do NOT go through the primer. On my boat, I painted the topcoat to a masked line at dwl. Then I sanded the entire topcoat and removed the masking for the final coat to get rid of any masking tape edge. I can still see the waterline a bit. When I mask for anti-fouling this spring, I will try to lay that mark down flatter.

Clear as mud? Yes, the topcoat gets sanded. You apply 2-3 coats, sand it and then final. Before the final, I removed the masking tape and painted without masking the final coat; being careful to go well past the demarcation line where I could tell the old line (dwl) existed.

If you have any confusion; ask away. It is easier to understand now than make errors. Remember, antifouling is never feathered and always applied last and applied above the waterline.

Also, for you 150mm line, I would not do this way. Topcoats do not work well this way. You would be best off painting the entire hull the main color...then masking the 150mm line and then sanding with 320 grit and painting the other color. There will be a ridge of paint. Masking tapes must be non-bleed types or it will end badly for you. If you have to laminate the deck to hull; then you need to wait to paint because that tape will need fairing... if you insist on painting; you would need to accept a workboat finish here...I forgot you need a glass tape here, no? Ugh, sorry, I wrote this long paint instruction, but forgot your hull to deck is not done!

Hmmm. Not sure you should paint Les.
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fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

The issue for you is that you really ought to not paint until you deck seam is done.

I forget the construction details, but you have a tape seam to do yet, no?

So, you are thinking to paint antifouling.

But this cannot be done. You would need to paint antifoulng first to say 50mm above dwl (this is the other way upside down). Then you'd need to mask antifoul, no! The antifoul should not be masked according to my training.

Also, if there is a tape seam to fair, that fairing may extend quite a way down the hull.

I'll wait to heat back from you. Sorry I did not realize this problem sooner. I see no way you should be painting now unless you want to prime the bottom.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

Here is a picture of a big issue for you.

The green is the hull to deck seam I believe you need still.

Orange is fairing compounds. That is a major tape seam, no?

You can only primer coat now; nothing else and only primer to past the dwl, no masking tapes.
11981B0C-2FA3-431E-B8B7-249DFD635712.jpeg
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

You see a bunch of bateau builders painting their bottoms, but those are trailered boats. Slip boats need to be painted differently! The paints are completely different.

Also, this explains how some of the plan of attack was misordered. Do not try to paint to a masked line; it will not look good Les.
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