LB26

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les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Hi Jacques

Thanks for your post.

I think there must be some confusion. I have not sent an email and I have only sent 1 post.
I live on the island of Crete so Turkey is a long way away...
I have a lot to learn regard fibreglass so will study your post. It may mean coming back to you once I have received more info from the supplier.

Many Thanks

Les

jacquesmm
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Re: LB26

Post by jacquesmm »

Sorry, we have a couple of LB26's underway and one of the builders send questions by email. I thought it was you.
I will remove the note about Turkey.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Hi All

Fibreglass !!!!! Please give your feed back Jacques guys..... ( nice please )

I have spoken again with my supplier ( trust me it is not easy in Greece ) It looks like I can obtain the following. If I take the laminating schedule
" Bottom"
From outside I can obtain
Woven roving 300gr ( knitted)
Biaxial 825 gr ( +45 -45 ) unidirectional 600gr +225gr mat
Biaxial 825 gr ( 0 - 90 ) 60gr + 225 gr mat
Biaxial 825gr ( +45 -45 ) 600gr + 45 mat

The DB120 tape seems to be a problem for some reason... question can I cut this down from a sheet material or bite the bullet and order from Reid ?

As mentioned before I plan to use Corecell M80. In the Foam Sandwich section it mentions high density foam at certain areas ie deck where cleats etc are fixed, where keel is fixed. Is the M80 sufficient or do I need something stronger ?

With regard that question I am planning ( in the distant future ) to teak the deck and cockpit is this sufficient for fixing the cleats etc on its own ?

I plan to start the molds in about a week, on Reefie's excellent thread he built the chine with a tapered chine / spray rail. Can I form this in M80 ? should I build this in or plant on later ? What should be the ideal size at the transom. Excuse my terminology !!!

The above also applies to the keel, should this be built in or add after glassing ?

Jacques is there anything I need to know if I am planning to Teak the decks etc ?

For some reason I never got an answer to the question is Reefie still building ?

Cheers Guys

Les

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

les2021 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:26 am Hi All

Fibreglass !!!!! Please give your feed back Jacques guys..... ( nice please )

I have spoken again with my supplier ( trust me it is not easy in Greece ) It looks like I can obtain the following. If I take the laminating schedule
" Bottom"
From outside I can obtain
Woven roving 300gr ( knitted)??not sure I'd use any roving, are you sure this is not woven? No roving is specified, but woven is if I recall.

Biaxial 825 gr ( +45 -45 ) unidirectional 600gr +225gr mat
This is 600/225-same as 1708 in spec

Biaxial 825 gr ( 0 - 90 ) 60gr + 225 gr mat
This is spec same as 1808, you have a typo I think, should be 600z


Biaxial 825gr ( +45 -45 ) 600gr + 45 mat
Not sure what this one is..

The DB120 tape seems to be a problem for some reason... question can I cut this down from a sheet material or bite the bullet and order from Reid ?

Db120 is same as 400g biaxial. You can cut it, but it will snake a lot for you handling it all. A good alternate is 400/225 with a weight penalty, but much easier to use. Ask the supplier about biaxial 400 or biaxial 400 with mat.

As mentioned before I plan to use Corecell M80. In the Foam Sandwich section it mentions high density foam at certain areas ie deck where cleats etc are fixed, where keel is fixed. Is the M80 sufficient or do I need something stronger ? M80 is insufficient for cleats or where loading may occur. For cleats; you can fully decore prior to glassing or use a higher density material.

With regard that question I am planning ( in the distant future ) to teak the deck and cockpit is this sufficient for fixing the cleats etc on its own ?

No.

I plan to start the molds in about a week, on Reefie's excellent thread he built the chine with a tapered chine / spray rail. Can I form this in M80 ? should I build this in or plant on later ? What should be the ideal size at the transom. Excuse my terminology !!!

I would build the spray rail with M80 unless you think it can get dinged in which case you can use 12-20 pound density foams

The above also applies to the keel, should this be built in or add after glassing ?
The keel is added after the monocoque glassing afaik. It should be in the notes, though.


Jacques is there anything I need to know if I am planning to Teak the decks etc ?

Teak is something of a can of worms. I believe it can be glued down. You need to know how it will be fastened and if bonding it down; you do not want to bond to paint. Mechanical fastenings are a terrible idea, but I only know the rumors. Zero experience.


For some reason I never got an answer to the question is Reefie still building ?

Not sure. Reefie was doing some farming or he might have got tired of me commenting.

Cheers Guys

Les
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Cheers Fallguy

It should have read 600gr

The last one is a typo as well... should have read 600gr + 225gr not 45.

Les

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

les2021 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:26 am Hi All

Fibreglass !!!!! Please give your feed back Jacques guys..... ( nice please )

I have spoken again with my supplier ( trust me it is not easy in Greece ) It looks like I can obtain the following. If I take the laminating schedule
" Bottom"
From outside I can obtain
Woven roving 300gr ( knitted)??not sure I'd use any roving, are you sure this is not woven? No roving is specified, but woven is if I recall.

Biaxial 825 gr ( +45 -45 ) unidirectional 600gr +225gr mat
This is 600/225-same as 1708 in spec

Biaxial 825 gr ( 0 - 90 ) 60gr + 225 gr mat
This is spec same as 1808, you have a typo I think, should be 600z


Biaxial 825gr ( +45 -45 ) 600gr + 45 mat
Not sure what this one is..

The DB120 tape seems to be a problem for some reason... question can I cut this down from a sheet material or bite the bullet and order from Reid ?

Db120 is same as 400g biaxial. You can cut it, but it will snake a lot for you handling it all. A good alternate is 400/225 with a weight penalty, but much easier to use. Ask the supplier about biaxial 400 or biaxial 400 with mat.

As mentioned before I plan to use Corecell M80. In the Foam Sandwich section it mentions high density foam at certain areas ie deck where cleats etc are fixed, where keel is fixed. Is the M80 sufficient or do I need something stronger ? M80 is insufficient for cleats or where loading may occur. For cleats; you can fully decore prior to glassing or use a higher density material.

With regard that question I am planning ( in the distant future ) to teak the deck and cockpit is this sufficient for fixing the cleats etc on its own ?

No.

I plan to start the molds in about a week, on Reefie's excellent thread he built the chine with a tapered chine / spray rail. Can I form this in M80 ? should I build this in or plant on later ? What should be the ideal size at the transom. Excuse my terminology !!!

I would build the spray rail with M80 unless you think it can get dinged in which case you can use 12-20 pound density foams

The above also applies to the keel, should this be built in or add after glassing ?
The keel is added after the monocoque glassing afaik. It should be in the notes, though.


Jacques is there anything I need to know if I am planning to Teak the decks etc ?

Teak is something of a can of worms. I believe it can be glued down. You need to know how it will be fastened and if bonding it down; you do not want to bond to paint. Mechanical fastenings are a terrible idea, but I only know the rumors. Zero experience.


For some reason I never got an answer to the question is Reefie still building ?

Not sure. Reefie was doing some farming or he might have got tired of me commenting.

Cheers Guys

Les
By fully decore, I mean glass one side of the deck. Then remove the core at the cleat locations; then use epoxy putty where the mounting of the cleat will go. If the deck is 5/8" thick; this might be a LOT of putty; it should be done in 2 fills. Fill one should be about 3/8" thick; allow it to kick, so fill and wait about one hour and feel for heat; if the bond is still rather warm; give it more time and then fill it a second time to avoid the putty cracking from excess exotherm. It is possible it will still shrink and the next day need to be topped off with a third coat. Then you can sand it flush before glassing the reverse side.

You do not want to remove too much foam. For an 8" cleat; just remove a small circle of foam under each mount; not the entire area. You could also use a 20-26# core in those areas, but I decored as needed.

The keel material can be M80 per the notes on page 6, or you can use a higher density material. Personally, I'd use some M120. But it is terribly expensive; so you may use coosa or aquaplas or Renicell or something with 12-26 pound density you can buy in a smaller panel. It does say on page 6 the hull is laid and glassed and the keel is added on top of a glassed hull. I believe the keel glass spec is missing. He has a tabbing spec and verified the keel spec in a thread here and I forgot to redmark my planbook. Because the keel can ground; I'd tend to glass it heavier than lighter.

If any of my replies are confusing, let me know.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

The keel is to be glassed 3x 600/225 45:45 and overlap the pieces onto the hull something like 4,3,2". Fillets and radiuses are required to get the glass to conform. When glassing; you pull the consolidation roller only away from outside radiuses and into the corners. You cannot move the roller both directions or air will entrain.

For the bottom overlaps, same, only push the glass toward the keel or air will entrain if you move the roller outboard. Lay the largest pieces first or again, air will entrain under the edges.

It may be tricky to layup the keel without air bubbles. You could also use a vac pump on peelply and release film. Or you can repair air pockets with injection or regrinding and filling with bonding paste as needed. If you choose to use vacuum; message me and I can tell you how. Even a shop vac could work.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Hi Fallguy

Your help is useful keep it coming. The Woven is as per the attached
Woven Roving fiberglass-1000x1000.jpg
Woven Roving fiberglass-1000x1000.jpg
Not sure these attachments have loaded correct let me know....

The description reads as follows Very thin light, knitted woven roving glass fabric. 300gr, 0.5mm thickness.

Will reply to your earlier post clarifying a few points.

Cheers

Les
Attachments
7A0746FF-4FDD-4B09-8718-9C4536199294.jpeg

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

The fabric looks perfect. Typically when I think of a nice woven, the fill and the warp are equal weights. This makes them finish nicer I think. Your pictures look right.

And the weave is typically plain 1:1. The pictures appear as such as well.

I am far from a cloth expert, but know the metric equivalents. For some reason, when I think of woven rovings, images of fancy weaves come to mind, but this is an error in my brain. I'd rather challenge and help than be a yes man and mess you up.

Pay attention to the placement of the transom mold. I believe it goes on station 9, from memory, and not 10. But easy to botch and then make the boat longer.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

In the spec sheet, it calls for double the resin of the weight for impregnation of the fibers. This seems odd. Please test a small sample and don't trust the brochure. Most wovens are laid up 1:1, which means 300g of fabric wets with 300g of resins. A resin rich layup of 200% of the fabric is crazy and results in a poorer laminate. This could be marketing bs to push their resin sales up.

Here is a chart that suggests 300g roving needs 330g resin. This is much closer to my expectations.

http://www.nivitex.com/resin-glassfibre-ratios.html

Dan
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

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