LB26

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les2021
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LB26

Post by les2021 »

Hi Guys ( first post !!! )

First let me tell you who and where I am....
My name is Les and I am originally from the UK but have lived in the Greek Islands for the last three years.

Thanks Reid for putting up with my early pain in the back side emails and helping me find my way and LEARN.....

Build an LB26, sounds really easy when you say it fast.... The project does not phase me BUT I know I have a lot to learn ( fibreglassing )

Ok so living on an island means I have source materials and learn about what materials I can obtain way in advance as all will need to come via ferry to the island. I have found a very helpful guy from Athens with regard Resin, Glass etc. The problem is spec's are different, I sent the BOM and he has come back with the following

Corcecell M80 ( this sounds ok ? )
Epoxy resin Ampreg 31 R/H
Biaxial Glass Fabric 400gr
Biaxial Glass Fabric 600gr
Triaxial Fabric 900gr

The temp here will star to rise now and will rise to about 70 degrees in April, then in May we start to get hot 80+ degrees. Should I be using fast / medium /or slow hardener as a beginner ???

Jacques / Guys can you comment on this ?

Timber is not a problem although very expensive on the island.

Engine unit good suppliers but OUCH ( that is going to cost me many outfits and flowers for Nicki..... )

I am planning to start the mold's in about two weeks and get underway so expect idiot posts over the coming days !!!!

I have read many threads including Reefie's, class act and very knowledgeable ( my thread stopped on page 38, did it continue as it was very helpful )

I think that has probably bored you all enough so will stop there....

Look forward to your responses.

Cheers

Les



fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

Not sure, don't recall triax glass.

Recheck your build book or ask JM for alternatives because your glass citations are wrong. You need to find different glass as well as another.

The core and resins are great choices. Corecell M is top of the line stuff. If you postcure the hull; you can paint it dark even.

I can help you more with glass, but I won't until Mertens replies because you seem to be misquoting the build book. Whenever that happens, I worry about splashing which is using or making plans based off pictures online or another hull, etc. And I like to protect intellectual property.

The main resin for an amateur is slow. Fast hardeners were used by me for fillets around bulkheads. A few times now and then I wish I had fast, but mainly for fairing. Commercial fairing compounds like quikfair have kick times of about 30 minutes and set fast for as many as 5 sandings in 24 hours. However, a person working alone rarely has the ability to get 3 coats and sandings and vacuumings done in a single day. It is simply too much for most parts. For the main hull work, you may consider tropical set which is typically 2 hour resin. But it may require post curing which means making an oven to cook the boat in. If you buy any fast, maybe 1/2 gallon at most for fillets. I do not sand fillets. I make them with fast resin and immediately wet tapes and tab with slow resins.

Anyhow, I look forward to helping you more. Please cite the book correctly and I can help a bit with metric conversions.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Hi

Sorry if I did not explain clearly... I have and understand the design requirements as per the BOM and notes. It is just these are the products this guy supplies.

My question to Jacques was can these be used as a substitute for the spec ?

Thanks for my first reply....

Les

Browndog
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Re: LB26

Post by Browndog »

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your decision to start a boat building project.

The area where I live is hot and humid in the summer and the slow cure epoxy still cures plenty fast enough, sometimes too fast. I would concur with Fallguy that slow cure is probably best for a DIY build. During the colder times of year the slow cure can take a while to set-up, but can be dealt with by keeping the epoxy resin containers in an indoor warm area, a hot water bath or heated container like a box with a light bulb in it.

The challenges of living in a remote area where supplies are scarce and transportation of components is difficult is a reality for many builders. I admire the ingenuity of the builders that is displayed on the forum and encourage you to not be dissuaded by such obstacles. Some pretty impressive boats have been built in far corners of the world with limited resources.

That being said, more projects have suffered from compromising on the quality of materials for the hull than probably anything else. In the full scope of the project, the cost of materials for the hull is dwarfed by the cost of engines, steering, electronics, fittings and labor. It is rare that a self built boat will be more economical than buying a used boat in good condition.

Best wishes to you as you embark on a challenging but rewarding project. The forum participants, designers and hosts are very helpful and the encouragement, support, technical assistance and admiration that you will receive is a tremendous benefit.

Jeff
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Re: LB26

Post by Jeff »

Les, Welcome to the Builders Forum!! Give Jacques a little while to get back to you as I am confident he will!! Look forward to your build!!! Jeff

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

1708 is the same as 600/225 45/45

1808 is 600/225 0-90

If you cannot source the specified materials; you will need to see if the designer will provide an alternate. But you are going to need a pallet of materials or three, so expect a freight bill.

Jacque may accept the triax, but you are still missing the 90 strands.

If you use triax; remember the 0 strands are always away from foam; not to..
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

les2021
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Re: LB26

Post by les2021 »

Morning

Thanks Fallguy / Browndog

Agreed I will wait for the designer reply and the ask more questions.

What is the usual reply time from Jacques ?

Has anyone got an answer to the Reefie thread as I can only see it up to page 38.

Dare I ask has anyone who has built a LB26 got a build cost ???

Thanks

Les

fallguy1000
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Re: LB26

Post by fallguy1000 »

Not a cheap boat to build with the best core and epoxy in the world.

The 08 designation on the glass will also drive cost, but the alternative is not typically less glass. If you need say two layers of 1708, the designer isn't going to swap the csm for less glass. He put that designation in to reduce layers of work.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

jacquesmm
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Re: LB26

Post by jacquesmm »

I replied yesterday but don't see my reply here. Could that bea c ross post, a double post?
Anyway, I said that what matters for each skin if the total weight of the glass and the direction. It does not matter if you use biax or triax , it's the total weight that counts.
I am going to look for my reply from yesterday, it was more detailed but please, do not cross post.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

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Re: LB26

Post by jacquesmm »

About material substitutions.
What matters if the total weight and fiber direction.
For example, let's say that you have a skin made from 2 layers of biaxial 45/45 400 gr plus 1 layer 0-90 400 gr plus a finish layer of woven 200 gr.
That means you have 2 times 200 gr (2 times half of the 400 gr) at 45 degrees, the same 400 gr at 135 degrees, 200gr (half of 400 gr) at 0 and 200 gr at 90 plus the final woven which 100 gr at 0 and 100 gr at 90.
That is what you need.
It does not matter if all that glass comes in biaxial, triaxial and there is even quadri axial. What matters is to get that same total for strength. Approximately: no need to calculate to the 3rd decimal when I anyway apply a safety margin of 50%.
Now, there is also thickness. You must get the same total thickness. That will usually work because many of those directional fabrics have some matt stitched to it. One extra thin layer of mat is OK but don't add too much matt, it will make the boat heavy.
Another point is woven. The woven fabric is about 20% weaker than the directional. In the example above (fictitious laminate, not the LB26), we have a 400 gr total of 0-90. Can we replace that with 400 gr woven? Not in theory, it should be 480 gr woven to get the same strength. I don't know any 480 or 500gr woven but 240 gr is common -> use 2 layers of 240 gr to replace the 400 gr of 0-90. Directional is better but if you have no choice, substitute.
Take in account the mat if you must compensate a little bit here and there.

I specify common, easy to find fabrics.
I use little tricks like finishing with a woven fabric to make fairing easier. I limit my specs to glass that wet out easily: a 600 gr triax does not bend well and is hard to wet, same for a very common 2415. The lighter fabrics will go around corners without air bubbles.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

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