Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Good Morning All - I'm new around here and am about to embark on my first build (FS14 LS). I purchased my plans about a week ago and picked up my materials from BBC on Friday and had the opportunity to meet Reid and Jeff - super nice guys and if you have the opportunity to pick your materials up locally, I highly suggest it. I toyed with the idea of having it all shipped or purchasing elsewhere and I'm glad I didn't. Reid & Jeff took the time to walk me through a few things and it was really helpful to see both Mike's (seaslug) and Reid's build - both very nice boats.

Combing through the plans, I've already had a number of questions and have been able to answer most digging through this forum and the tutorials. I'll have more, I'm sure. I started laying out the hull plates/nesting last night and have already made a mistake or two, but nothing is cut yet, thankfully.

Anyway, I wanted to introduce myself and take a stab at posting some pics - hopefully they show up below. In selecting the model to build, I was going back and forth between the FS14 LS and the D15 (I also gave some thought to the OB15). These pics are a floor tape mock-up I did to get a sense of scale of the two models in comparison. The "blue" is the FS and the "white" is the D15. It was very helpful to visualize the beam layout relative to how I fish, which is why I ultimately chose the FS.

Here goes nothin':

First welcome to the group and thanks for deciding to post pictures up front, they will help future builders. I wish more builders did what you did laying out the boat dimensions on the ground, I have been a proponent of that for a long time. It really does let a builder see what the boats thy are deciding on see the difference in them.

Thanks for your post and have a good time building your FS.

Tom

Thanks for the encouragement Tom.

For those familiar with the FS14 LS plans, I just finished drawing out the hull bottom and side plate. I think it went well - a little trickier than I anticipated. I have one question/confirmation that I think is likely critical since it impacts the overall length of the side plate:

Sheet B319/4 - the snippet below shows the dimensions for the stern end of the side plate. According to the nesting plan, the upper left point is the origin, which is 80-1/2" from the edge of the plywood. If I assume that the dimensions are spaced at 12" (typ) per the bottom plate diagram (but not the side plate diagram), then the dimension from the origin point is 9" - correct? I think that's correct, but don't want to make a big mistake out of the gate. In theory, at least in my head, the camber length of the outside (port/starboard) edge of the bottom plate and the bottom of the side plate should have the same length since they abut one another. I did a rough check of this and there is about an 1-1/4" difference - close, but not perfect. Any thoughts? Still haven't cut anything yet.



Finally - a question on the camber lines. For both the bottom and side plates, the points below didn't really fall on a "natural" curve and I had to muscle my drawing batten to conform to these points. Is that the correct approach - to hold the plan dimension no matter what - or to follow a more natural curve?





Thanks

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your decision to build your own boat.

It will be a rewarding project that will give you a great sense of satisfaction.

I’m confident that any challenges that you face have been faced before and the members of the forum, the designer and our host are all extremely helpful. When in doubt ask. Posting pictures is also a good idea.

Looking forward to watching the progress of your project.

Best wishes for success.

Answering your questions on the drawings:

1. Yes 9" is correct
2. and 3. Yes bend to the design not an easier curve. They really should not be causing you that much problem if you have drawn the points correctly. Jacques normally draws a smooth curve. Do a double check to make sure they are in the correct place. That is all I can think of.

Tom

Thanks Tom. I checked and double checked my points. I guess the good news is that, if I’m off, it will be in the “good” direction where I can trim if needed.

10 7/8 + 1 1/2 from the base line, not 10 7/8 from the base line. Should look like an enlargement of the plan, or else something is way off.

Thanks Jeff - I've been following your build with great interest. Good stuff.

So I laid it all out in CAD (2D only) last night and the snippets below illustrate exactly what I'm experiencing with my layout.

This image shows the three bow points on the bottom plate connected by a simple arc/camber (red dashed line):



Those three points live happily together.

However, if I extend the simple arc/camber across the first five points, you can see that the point in question does not fall on the simple arc:



So, I have to conclude that these are two separate but tangent arcs. I have no doubt that the plan dimensions are correct - lot's of you guys have built this boat. I think I've probably thought about this too much and I just need to roll with it.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:31 am Thanks Jeff - I've been following your build with great interest. Good stuff.

So I laid it all out in CAD (2D only) last night and the snippets below illustrate exactly what I'm experiencing with my layout.

This image shows the three bow points on the bottom plate connected by a simple arc/camber (red dashed line):



Those three points live happily together.

However, if I extend the simple arc/camber across the first five points, you can see that the point in question does not fall on the simple arc:



So, I have to conclude that these are two separate but tangent arcs. I have no doubt that the plan dimensions are correct - lot's of you guys have built this boat. I think I've probably thought about this too much and I just need to roll with it.

This is the time to overthink, so dont sweat that. What's it look like when you add that point to the arc?

Per the image below, in order to include the point on the arc/camber, the first three points have to be an independent arc (blue line vs. red line) - connecting to another independent arc further down the line and creating a "kink" at point 3:



It's much clearer when you draw it out in CAD and zoom in like this. It's less perceptible in the actual layout, but the "kink" is there (at the tip of the blue pen):



Here, I extend the two arcs to further illustrate what's happening:



I keep thinking back to the discussions I've read that indicate that there's a decent margin of error on these seams and gaps, which makes me less concerned - but I sure would like to get it perfect if I could.

Trent,

You may want to ping Bamaguy0(Cameron) on this. He did his panel cutting a lot more recently than I did and he's a CAD ace as well, he may have some more useful info for you. He imported and drew the whole boat in Fusion or AutoCad and may be able to confirm the issue you're seeing. I've looked ta my old photos and notes and don't have any good record of cutting that panel that highlights that curve.

There were some old versions of the FS14LS that used the BL instead of the offset in some spots that caused some headaches but it looks to me like you have the same set I have.

I'd really like to see you get this sorted before proceeding so it won't gnaw at you through the rest of the build.

Love the mockup on the floor, btw, looks like a Stitch-n-Glue crime scene!

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:09 am Trent,

You may want to ping Bamaguy0(Cameron) on this. He did his panel cutting a lot more recently than I did and he's a CAD ace as well, he may have some more useful info for you. He imported and drew the whole boat in Fusion or AutoCad and may be able to confirm the issue you're seeing. I've looked ta my old photos and notes and don't have any good record of cutting that panel that highlights that curve.

There were some old versions of the FS14LS that used the BL instead of the offset in some spots that caused some headaches but it looks to me like you have the same set I have.

I'd really like to see you get this sorted before proceeding so it won't gnaw at you through the rest of the build.

Love the mockup on the floor, btw, looks like a Stitch-n-Glue crime scene!

On a side note...Floor Frame C. The building notes indicate that it is temporary; is made from MDF or OSB; and its use in the jig is optional. However, it is included in the nesting diagrams and is clearly indicated as part of the final framing in the Construction diagram (B319/6). So, wondering what is the need for it being temporary and from a different material at the jig stage? Could I just include it from the start in Okoume - or does it need to be sacrificial at the jig stage?

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:18 pm On a side note...Floor Frame C. The building notes indicate that it is temporary; is made from MDF or OSB; and its use in the jig is optional. However, it is included in the nesting diagrams and is clearly indicated as part of the final framing in the Construction diagram (B319/6). So, wondering what is the need for it being temporary and from a different material at the jig stage? Could I just include it from the start in Okoume - or does it need to be sacrificial at the jig stage?

On the jig, it's going to be full-height: bilge to sheer, and it will be temporary, only used for shaping the hull. Once you turn the hull over, discard it, and make a new one out of marine ply per the nesting, it will only be as tall as the sole.

Welcome to the group, but beware, it's an addiction, and you'll likely build more than one. I can't recall which ofmy 4 builds had tiny little errors as you've shown on the plans. I think it was on 2 of those plans, and the errors were only 1/8", just enough to show a little kink. Just disregard those and draw a fair line and you'll be fine, You'd notice any radical deviation from the plans right away, and even without correcting these little jogs it will be just fine, since with stitch and glue we can fill some pretty huge gaps if needed. I don't know what kind of fishing you do, but remember this is a small skiff, so I'd say 2 guys max, and not big Moose's either. We never put a motor on the one you saw at BBC, but I would think a 15-20 hp would work. Good luck with your build. Mike

Panels first:

9" is correct.
We use Typical lines, the vertical lines and unless there is another dimension, the spacing is typical. In this case, one point is at the typical 12", the other 3" back.

For the other points, do not agonize over 1/8". The dimension tolerance is set at 1/8 and it is accurate enough for this building method.
There is a little hollow at the bow in each of those lines but even with that inflexion, it should be fair: compromise, it will all even out during the assembly.
I use curves of maximum third degree and most of the time with 5 vertices or less. They are mathematically fair but there is a small inflexion there.
For those who want to play with CAD, my models precision is 5 decimals of 1" but I first fair curves mathematically to a tolerance of 1/10" and then set the dimension tolerance to 1/8". You can't rebuild those panels from my dims with a greater precision than + or - 1/8.

During the assembly, with loose stitches, the panels will tend to be fair. Do not overtighten the stitches, let the panels take their natural shape.
Hundreds of FS14's were built from those dimensions and they end up fair.

C: the mold is to throw away, the floor frame is required. There was enough wood left on the nesting to cut it from the same sheet, that's why I show it.

Thanks for the replies Jacques

seaslug wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:48 pm Welcome to the group, but beware, it's an addiction, and you'll likely build more than one. I can't recall which ofmy 4 builds had tiny little errors as you've shown on the plans. I think it was on 2 of those plans, and the errors were only 1/8", just enough to show a little kink. Just disregard those and draw a fair line and you'll be fine, You'd notice any radical deviation from the plans right away, and even without correcting these little jogs it will be just fine, since with stitch and glue we can fill some pretty huge gaps if needed. I don't know what kind of fishing you do, but remember this is a small skiff, so I'd say 2 guys max, and not big Moose's either. We never put a motor on the one you saw at BBC, but I would think a 15-20 hp would work. Good luck with your build. Mike

Thanks Mike. I'm planning on a 20 HP. 15 will do if I come across a deal. This boat will replace the type of fishing I'm currently doing on my kayak with a trolling motor - mangrove edges surrounded by some real skinny water - places I can't get to in the bay boat. I need more range, a bit more comfort and a more stable platform to cast a net. The bones are getting old.

Checking in...

Got my panels cut. Doubled up the plywood so that the first set of panel cuts "traced" out the second set. Worked pretty well, except I should have been a little more aggressive with my saw depth:



Pinned the plywood corners to keep it all from shifting:



Routed the outside of panels to accept the butt splice:





Got the jig/strongback built. Used some caster "outriggers" to shim and get it all level since the floor isn't. Not sure how important that is, but it's always good to know you're working on a level surface:





Setting frames A through D and stringers:



Transom glued up and in place:



Taking some vacation time this week and will take a stab at stitching her up tomorrow morning...I gather that it's best to start from the stern. Is that correct?

Stitching is an iterative process, I'm not sure it matters where you start, just make sure you start with all stitches loose. Great work so far, thats a really fun stage, go slow and enjoy it.

Tape the outsides of the molds before laying panels.

Thanks Jeff. I was wondering “how do I keep from accidentally welding these frames to the panel?” Tape! Good reminder. Thanks

Jeff is right. It is a fun time watching your boat take shape in front of you. Looking good. Good luck!

Looking good, there should be some where in your instructions that say to start the stitching from the transom. But if not that is the best way to go. Keep em a little slack so you can go back and tighten and fair up the panel as needed.

Tom

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:09 pm
Routed the outside of panels to accept the butt splice:

Just some terminology, it looks like you are preparing a scarf joint in that picture, a butt joint would be just putting the ends of the boards against each other and then securing with a butt block or fiberglass over the joint. - Nevermind I was confused by the picture.

joe2700 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:24 am

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:09 pm
Routed the outside of panels to accept the butt splice:

Just some terminology, it looks like you are preparing a scarf joint in that picture, a butt joint would be just putting the ends of the boards against each other and then securing with a butt block or fiberglass over the joint.

I did the same thing as Trent on my butt splices: I routed down about the thickness of glass/epoxy so that the butt-spliced panel would be flat and easier to fair. I went 3" from the edge of each panel to accomodate 6" tape.

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am
I did the same thing as Trent on my butt splices: I routed down about the thickness of glass/epoxy so that the butt-spliced panel would be flat and easier to fair. I went 3" from the edge of each panel to accomodate 6" tape.

Ohh I see now, the router tracks made it look like it was cut on an angle like a scarf but it's just cut to an even depth for the tape. Nevermind!

joe2700 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:19 pm

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am
I did the same thing as Trent on my butt splices: I routed down about the thickness of glass/epoxy so that the butt-spliced panel would be flat and easier to fair. I went 3" from the edge of each panel to accomodate 6" tape.

Ohh I see now, the router tracks made it look like it was cut on an angle like a scarf but it's just cut to an even depth for the tape. Nevermind!

Yeah, Trent actually did an excellent job, there is very consistent grain where he routed. I didn't do as good a job and mine looked more like a scarf joint were I crossed layers.

Mine, for comparison. The fact that the other side of my pyramid is mia is a little alarming.......I may have joined a side panel to the transom. Oh well.

Had a pretty successful afternoon of stitching - I think. A good buddy of mine was here for a visit and his help made quicker work of it than I anticipated:



Did encounter some hard spots up in the bow area that took some massaging. You can see that here:



But I think it came out well overall. Used the PVC trick and tile spacers (I had a huge bag left over from a recent tile job):













Overall - a really cool and fun process. I'll spot weld tomorrow with Gel Magic - any suggestions on how long I should cure before cutting the zip ties? It's 80 - 85 degrees here. And what would be the best use of time while I'm waiting? Cutting rub rails?

Not sure if it's an optic illusion but that bow seems to droop some. Is it level with the rest of the sheerline?


Gel magic spot welding in 85 degrees will cure pretty quick but I would personally give it 24 before pulling the stitches.

Jeff - I was just looking at the same thing. Think I might have gotten ahead of myself. Somethings not right I think.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:48 pm Jeff - I was just looking at the same thing. Think I might have gotten ahead of myself. Somethings not right I think.

Ok. When I say droop, i mean if the boat were right side up, just to make sure we're looking at the same thing. That sheerline appears to dive a bit 12-18 inches from the bow. A photo from the side may help in ascertaining.

You’re seeing it right. I think I need to step back and check everything, but from what I can see right now, my guess is that I cut the shear line wrong. That baffles me, since I feel like I triple checked all that. One thing is for certain - I screwed something up I won’t sleep so well tonight.

My light isn’t so good at night - so I’ll post some more pics in the mornings or the world to see “what not to do”.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:06 pm You’re seeing it right. I think I need to step back and check everything, but from what I can see right now, my guess is that I cut the shear line wrong. That baffles me, since I feel like I triple checked all that. One thing is for certain - I screwed something up I won’t sleep so well tonight.

My light isn’t so good at night - so I’ll post some more pics in the mornings or the world to see “what not to do”.

Dont lose any sleep, its fixable. Worst case, you unzip, scab some meat on those panels and recut. No biggie. May not even take that. All part of the experience.

If your hull is straight and fair now I might not bother to un zip things. After it is all taped together you can scab some scrapes on the sides and then cut what ever shear line looks good to you. My dory had the drooping nose problem and I fixed it that way. No one has ever said anything about it or maybe even noticed. When I put the rubrails on rather than fight them i let them run high at the bow and just filled in the missing hull sides.

Fuzz wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:49 pm If your hull is straight and fair now I might not bother to un zip things. After it is all taped together you can scab some scrapes on the sides and then cut what ever shear line looks good to you. My dory had the drooping nose problem and I fixed it that way. No one has ever said anything about it or maybe even noticed. When I put the rubrails on rather than fight them i let them run high at the bow and just filled in the missing hull sides.

I was thinking this but then had a different thought, unzip, lay the panel down, reglue the off cut, recut. Much easier flat and he hasn't welded yet.

This is a straight sheer Fuzz, I think it's more critical to get it pretty flat. Otherwise the deck will also droop.

Confirmed - The shear line is off. I just need to trim it down - no scabbing required. Biggest question for me right now is, do I unzip it to cut - or - try to cut it in place?

Here is where the error occurred ( and, looking back, Jeff may have warned me of this). As the instructions clearly say, "ALL dimensions are always taken from the base line or centerline". I didn't read the side layout dimensions in that way. I read them as sequential. Therefore my shearline is off by the exact dimension between the baseline and the chine. And here is the real problem - I'm an architect - the building kind, not the naval kind. I would never dimension something in a building this way. I'd give the overall between the shear line and the base line and then the two dimensions between 1) baseline and chine line and 2) the chine line and the shear line. And, as a "hobby" rough carpenter, I'd also give dimensions to the factory edge of the plywood - it's just easier to layout that way. So regardless of how clear the instructions are, I just couldn't get my mind to go there - and I screwed it up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the plans. Like I said, the instructions are clear. It's on me - I didn't follow them.

Relieved to have found the error. What do you all think of trying to cut the shear with the panel in place?

I think Jeff has the best idea. Dropping them now will be a lot easier to cut and if you do both at the same time much better chance for them to match.

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:55 pm 10 7/8 + 1 1/2 from the base line, not 10 7/8 from the base line. Should look like an enlargement of the plan, or else something is way off.

Looking back, I think I was wrong about this, very possibly leading to your error. I'd like to think I warned you but fear the opposite is true, I think I misguided you. Let me know if that jives with your impression, and huge apologies.

Def remove before cutting, imo.

Yeah - they need to come off. Bottom plate is likely off too, but is less exaggerated. I’ll try to look at it this way - after today, I will have stitched up a boat twice and am one step closer to becoming and expert

Not on you Jeff - appreciate all of your input. I never thought that reading dimensions would be my biggest challenge (to date) on this build.

Just a small challenge and only a slight set back.

I’m confident that before your project is over it will probably not be the biggest challenge you face.

Hopefully you can avoid the worst by learning from the rest of us that have had, shall we say, some doozies.

A word of warning, when mixing epoxy, 2 part primers and 2 part paints, take your time to ensure that you have the correct ratio of resin & hardener and mix thoroughly before applying. Mixing problems lead to very big, messy and time consuming challenges. A 30 second mistake can take weeks to repair when it comes to epoxy, fairing compound, primer and paint.

Best wishes for continued success.

I’m going to confirm it all before I trim and will report back

And thankfully, after we finished the stitching, my buddy suggested that I take a break and come back to it tomorrow. Otherwise, I probably would have started the spot welding and this would be a much bigger and costlier fix.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:42 am Yeah - they need to come off. Bottom plate is likely off too, but is less exaggerated. I’ll try to look at it this way - after today, I will have stitched up a boat twice and am one step closer to becoming and expert

Not on you Jeff - appreciate all of your input. I never thought that reading dimensions would be my biggest challenge (to date) on this build.

Well I owe you a few beers at least, or at least some boxed wine if you have gout like I do.

Glad to see you taking it in stride. As the "senior" members here like to say, Ain't nuthin' but a thing.

On the mixing. A former member saved my bacon with a tip that I still use.

“cracker larry” wrote:On your mixing table put the resin on the right corner. Put red solo cups on that side and use them to hold resin premix. Put your hardener in the right corner and use anything other than red cups to hold it premix. Measure out all that you need for a job pairing the red and “not red”. Then mix a pair and use it. Keep going till done.

To measure easily get clear solo cups, a red and a green perm marker. Pour any amount of water (about 1/3 of a batch) into one cup (call this cupA). Use the green marker to mark the level on cupA. Pour cupA contents into a second cup (call this cupB). Refill cupA to the green mark and pour it into cupB. Now mark the water level on cupB with the RED marker. You now have cupA marked for hardener and cupB marked for resin in a 2:1 ratio (change the number of pours from cupA to cupB if you use a different ratio epoxy). You can just reuse them as needed as long as you don’t mix them up or get contamination in them.

If you do that it is tough to mess up the ratios.

Jaysen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:39 am On the mixing. A former member saved my bacon with a tip that I still use.

“cracker larry” wrote:On your mixing table put the resin on the right corner. Put red solo cups on that side and use them to hold resin premix. Put your hardener in the right corner and use anything other than red cups to hold it premix. Measure out all that you need for a job pairing the red and “not red”. Then mix a pair and use it. Keep going till done.

To measure easily get clear solo cups, a red and a green perm marker. Pour any amount of water (about 1/3 of a batch) into one cup (call this cupA). Use the green marker to mark the level on cupA. Pour cupA contents into a second cup (call this cupB). Refill cupA to the green mark and pour it into cupB. Now mark the water level on cupB with the RED marker. You now have cupA marked for hardener and cupB marked for resin in a 2:1 ratio (change the number of pours from cupA to cupB if you use a different ratio epoxy). You can just reuse them as needed as long as you don’t mix them up or get contamination in them.

If you do that it is tough to mess up the ratios.

That's pretty sage.

I'm gonna offer my .02 on mixing small quantities of gel-magic, which does not lend itself to being poured into cups.

I use clear, plastic cocktail cups for gel-magic. Put the cup on the scale, tare it. Use a large tongue depressor to add a glob of resin. Read the weight of the resin and look it up on the mixing chart you printed out and hung on the wall. Use a second large tongue depressor to add a glob about half the size of the first, and then add/remove small amounts until the scale indicates the correct total amount. Wipe the sticks and leave them on top of their respective buckets. Use a third TD to stir, I usually use small ones for that. I have a quart container of tonge depressors and a quart container of cocktail cups hanging right above my mixing station.

This is what I have on my wall. Resin weight in left col, total weight in right column.
Also: I've moved away from syringes, they're a bit of a pita to load. I have a metal coffee mug into which I place a quart ziplock. I dump the mixed goo into the corner of the ziplock, twist, and then cut the corner for the size bead I want. If it's small qty, I can get 2 sessions out of a bag, one for each corner, as long as the qty's are small.

I do this nearly constantly since my particular boat is 99% fiddly bits.

For welding the seams, I would splurge and use syringes, they are defnitnely nice for bigger jobs like that.

Happy to say that it’s fixed now. Recut the panels and stitched her back up. Have a couple of very minor hard spots to massage. Will post some
pics tonight. Appreciate all the input.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:53 pm Happy to say that it’s fixed now. Recut the panels and stitched her back up. Have a couple of very minor hard spots to massage. Will post some
pics tonight. Appreciate all the input.

Awesome!

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:00 am
That's pretty sage.

I'm gonna offer my .02 on mixing small quantities of gel-magic, which does not lend itself to being poured into cups.

I use clear, plastic cocktail cups for gel-magic. Put the cup on the scale, tare it. Use a large tongue depressor to add a glob of resin. Read the weight of the resin and look it up on the mixing chart you printed out and hung on the wall. Use a second large tongue depressor to add a glob about half the size of the first, and then add/remove small amounts until the scale indicates the correct total amount. Wipe the sticks and leave them on top of their respective buckets. Use a third TD to stir, I usually use small ones for that. I have a quart container of tonge depressors and a quart container of cocktail cups hanging right above my mixing station.

That's a good idea. I find that by weighing in grams it's easier to do math in my head. If the ratio is 100:46 that's 10:4.6, and it's easy to mentally do any multiple of that. I've gone a small as 1:0.4 and it works fine. If you measure in oz it's all more difficult to do mentally. Totally agree on having supplies in bulk at your mixing station.

joe2700 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:53 pm That's a good idea. I find that by weighing in grams it's easier to do math in my head. If the ratio is 100:46 that's 10:4.6, and it's easy to mentally do any multiple of that. I've gone a small as 1:0.4 and it works fine. If you measure in oz it's all more difficult to do mentally. Totally agree on having supplies in bulk at your mixing station.

Joe,

Now I'm going to check to see if my scale does grams, I'm guessing it does.

Is it the location of the decimals that simplifies it since the units in grams are so much smaller?? The ratios don't change so I'm not sure I'm quite grasping the difference.

I like doing math in my head but only for stuff less important than calculating tips for a bar tab. When it comes to mixing epoxy, unless the scale says 1.00 or .10 , I'm looking up at the chart to read my total weight.

I have never used any thing but plastic glasses and medicine cups. It has worked through the total rebuild of one boat and other various projects. For Quick Fair I use a plasterers hawk and just estimate by eyeball how much A & B mix it on the hawk and have never missed it. From the hawk I can take it directly to the place I need it and use a 12" trowel or a 6".

I have the scale method but is to fiddle faddle for me.

To each his own.

Tom

So here's some pics from today's fix. Using two sheets of ply, I laid out a new base line and dimension "stations", placed my existing plates on that, and then transferred the correct dims:



The batten here shows where the line should be on the bottom plate:



An overall view showing what needed to be trimmed from the bottom and side plates:



Stacked them and cut 'em:



Re-stitched and now I have a flat deck. Amazing what happens when you read directions:





Finally, don't know if this is an already discovered method or not - or acceptable for that matter, but if you've got a hard spot because you're having trouble getting the PVC to do it's job, drive a screw into it - works wonders when the zip tie isn't able to pull it enough:

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:30 pm So here's some pics from today's fix. Using two sheets of ply, I laid out a new base line and dimension "stations", placed my existing plates on that, and then transferred the correct dims:

Great work, great save!

How is the fit of the panels to the molds?

Excellent. Much better than before.

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:06 pm

joe2700 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:53 pm That's a good idea. I find that by weighing in grams it's easier to do math in my head. If the ratio is 100:46 that's 10:4.6, and it's easy to mentally do any multiple of that. I've gone a small as 1:0.4 and it works fine. If you measure in oz it's all more difficult to do mentally. Totally agree on having supplies in bulk at your mixing station.

Joe,

Now I'm going to check to see if my scale does grams, I'm guessing it does.

Is it the location of the decimals that simplifies it since the units in grams are so much smaller?? The ratios don't change so I'm not sure I'm quite grasping the difference.

I like doing math in my head but only for stuff less important than calculating tips for a bar tab. When it comes to mixing epoxy, unless the scale says 1.00 or .10 , I'm looking up at the chart to read my total weight.

Right I just find it easier to multiply in my head than divide, so if 30g of A looks right then just multiply 4.3 x 3 to get 12.9g of B to add. And sorry I left out an important detail, I tare between the 2 parts. So put some cardboard on the scale, tare, add part A, tare, add part B. I don't worry about the total weight. Just a different style, your way makes a lot of sense too.

Oh and my scale only does tenths, so I can easily do 10g:4.3g. Doing small batches in oz I would be less precise. No issue for bigger batches. You can get fine results eyeballing this stuff, but I find weighing is just as quick, and I never have to wonder if something isn't curing because I mixed it wrong. Also don't end up with part A or B leftover because I was constantly using slightly less of one. You get a fine boat either way.

Hey Trent! Great work on the recovery! Sorry I wasn't around to put my two cents in earlier. This month's been a blur for me. Hopefully I'm back to some form of normalcy now.

About the earlier CAD discussions and to clear any confusion, I did loft the sides in Fusion360 to make a 3D Model, but they're not based on the Hull Panels. They're simply following splines off the corners of each Frame located in position. For the purpose of digital mockup and rough estimation, I believe this to be close enough. Splines will follow the high points about like the plywood will. Feel free to shoot me a PM or comment on my build thread if you have any questions or want me to check anything out. I've modeled just about everything I plan to put in the boat at this point from switch panels, to a Tach, Fuel Gauge, even a custom Transom bracket.

app.php/gallery/image/8300/medium
app.php/gallery/image/8301/medium

Pardon the gaps and discontinuities, I've made a few tweaks and haven't updated some of the lesser-important items yet.

I'll subscribe to your build thread as well and watch your progress! This has been a fun ride for me, but it's definitely work that taxes both your mind and body. Seaslug says you can't build just one, but I think I might have to disagree with him on that.

Thanks Cameron. Following your thread and saw the latest update - looks like good progress to me.

Question about the transom...I'm having a hard time visualizing the "phasing" of the epoxy/glass/finish on the top of the transom. I'm leaning towards hull painting before the flip. In that case, the top of the transom is still raw after the flip, right? Which, I'm assuming rules out glassing/tabbing the top of the transom - unless there is some destruction of the newly applied paint. Then again, the top of the transom seems to deserve some glass. So, like I said, I'm having trouble visualizing this sequence. How did you guys do it?

I wrestled with that time and time again. I came to the conclusion that no method would be great either way. I don't have any plans to glass the top of the transom but I will sand it flush and apply a generous amount of epoxy to seal the edge. Probably a couple or three coats. Now that I think about it I should do that before I flip it back over and paint. Epoxy runs scare the everliving daylights out of me. I had one already from I think covering the inside of the hull. It proved to me my process choice of not painting until the inside structure is mostly complete was worthwhile.

The epoxy is what makes it waterproof, not the glass so I don't see much value in capping it with a layer.

Some boats have a trim piece to cover it and it's usually gooped and screwed down. Could fashion one from some aluminum or SS sheet if you wanted to get fancy.

You really need some protection on top of the transom for the motor. A layer of two of fiberglass is fine. It won't show as it will be be painted to match the boat.

Tom

TomW1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:26 pm You really need some protection on top of the transom for the motor. A layer of two of fiberglass is fine. It won't show as it will be be painted to match the boat.

Tom

This is a good point. Especially if you plan on removing the motor occasionally.

Tom, maybe you can help me understand. Typically you want to overlap existing glass. If I did that the transom edges would have to be smoothed out to lay the glass around the corner. Would you ignore that and just do strips on top or am I missing something?

Hmm. Fiberglass cap is starting to sound like a good idea. My transom paint has been brutalized in the year since I painted it. I'll have some cleanup work for sure. Drips, dings, etc.

I guess I could tape it now - upside down - wondering how that would work out

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:02 pm I guess I could tape it now - upside down - wondering how that would work out

I'm just going to run a strip. If you're going to wrap around it you should really radius it, but not sure all that's necessary just for abrasion resistance.

Keep in mind that my advice has a track record of being horrible.

That boat is small enough that flipping it should be a piece of cake. If so I would get it ready for primer and flip it. After the inside is done you can flip it for painting. If doing it that way you can round over the transom and lay a little glass on it. tom is correct in that you need to cover the edge with some glass if for no other reason than to make sure the edge is well sealed.

I think you’ve convinced me Fuzz. That seems like the most logical approach. Any particular reason that you would “get it ready” for primer rather than going ahead with the primer and perhaps just leaving the transom for later. Just curious as that would give me some flexibility- because, even though it’s a light boat, I will need a hand and that type of help isn’t always readily available for me.

Hypothetically, I was going through the “what if” process of taping upside down. Rounding the edges would be no problem - less convenient- but not really a problem. For the glass, I assume you would wet it out and let it tack up, stick the glass and then wet the glass? Not sure if gravity would win out in that case (sags, drips, air bubbles) and just create a mess and more work than its worth. I don’t have enough glass experience to know if that’s a terrible idea or not.

If you are going to do several flips it does not matter when you prime it. Might be better to wait or not I could see advantages for both. I have done a bunch of overhead glass using poly but not too much with epoxy. You have the right idea on how to do it but it is no fun and I avoid doing it if I can.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:25 am I think you’ve convinced me Fuzz. That seems like the most logical approach. Any particular reason that you would “get it ready” for primer rather than going ahead with the primer and perhaps just leaving the transom for later. Just curious as that would give me some flexibility- because, even though it’s a light boat, I will need a hand and that type of help isn’t always readily available for me.

Hypothetically, I was going through the “what if” process of taping upside down. Rounding the edges would be no problem - less convenient- but not really a problem. For the glass, I assume you would wet it out and let it tack up, stick the glass and then wet the glass? Not sure if gravity would win out in that case (sags, drips, air bubbles) and just create a mess and more work than its worth. I don’t have enough glass experience to know if that’s a terrible idea or not.

For me, trying to do that cap upside down while also glassing the transom itself and the joints would be too stressful. I've tried to picture doing it a few ways and none of them leave me confident. You could wrap it and clamp it with some clamping boards covered with packing tape, but trying to get that biax cloth to lie flat on that edge upside down, get it clamped etc would be more than I would sign up for.

Structural cloth needs to overlap but this is just abrasion resistance, so laying a strip of 6 oz cloth over the top after it's flipped should be fine. I'm not sure it's worth waiting on the paint for. You can mask off the transom to catch any drips while you lay the glass, you'll be doing a fair amount of that anyway when you go to glass the deck etc. This also means you don't need to round it and then either re-square it or else live with a rounded over transom top. I'm not sure how easy it will be to accurately/decoratively round over those edges while it's upside down on the jig, I know I wouldn't do a great job of it.

All just food for thought.

Appreciate all of the input.

On another note, wondering how I’m doing on “newbie” epoxy usage. I’ve finished glassing the outside of the hull per the plans schedule (will post some pics soon). To finish that, I had to open the second gallon of Part A for the final batch of 10 oz. In other words, I’m 10 oz into the second gallon. Do you all have any sense of that? Based on the hardened epoxy that I cleaned out of the bottom of my pots, I’ve probably wasted 16 to 20 ounces overall.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:39 am Appreciate all of the input.

On another note, wondering how I’m doing on “newbie” epoxy usage. I’ve finished glassing the outside of the hull per the plans schedule (will post some pics soon). To finish that, I had to open the second gallon of Part A for the final batch of 10 oz. In other words, I’m 10 oz into the second gallon. Do you all have any sense of that? Based on the hardened epoxy that I cleaned out of the bottom of my pots, I’ve probably wasted 16 to 20 ounces overall.

Seaslug said he used like 13. I'm in the 9 range. Gallons. (gulp)

I've bought 9 Gallons worth so far and started my last Part A jug taping my console this weekend.

Hey Guys - this is going to be a marathon post, since I haven't posted in a while but have covered a good bit of ground in the last couple of weeks since I had some time off. Wasn't sure if I should post all at once or break it down into separate posts - but all at once is easier. My last update was fixing my dimensional screw-up of the shear line, re-stitching and spot welding. Since then:

Making sure the keel is straight before final glue-up"



Glued and sanded seams:







Taped seams:



Laying out the cloth. Not sure if I was supposed to wrap the transom like this, but I did. I suspect that I wasn't since I'm a little shy on wide fabric now (coming soon):



Got it all glassed thanks to help from my wife. Thought I could do it myself but she was willing and able and in hindsight, glad she was. I think I would have gotten into trouble alone.



I did end up with a couple of bubbles along the chine. Saw it as we were wetting it out, but couldn't get it out regardless of what we tried. So had to let it go and had to grind it out/retape next day:



Thinking about a keel/skeg - not convinced yet, but thinking this would be the layout - tapering from bow to stern, stopping short of the transom by 18" per plan suggestion. I like a boat that tracks, but also don't want to lose 1.5" in draft. Any thoughts on that?



First round of quick fair - filling the weave. Think I should buy some stock in that stuff. Afterwards, I found Jeff's self critique that he started with Quick Fair to soon - ditto for me, but what's done is done:



Second round of Quick Fair - focusing on the seams/tape overlaps, drywall style. That's something I do have quite a bit of experience with.



Made myself a loooooong board. For the initial fairing, I wanted a board that spanned keel to chine to make sure my first pass was flat and revealed the low spots:



Fairing - round one:





Marked and scuffed the low spots:



Fairing - round two:



Taking Fuzz's advice to flip before paint so that I can address the top of the transom. First had to move it to make some table/strongback adjustments:



Lowered the strongback from 36" to 24". I wasn't going to be able to reach the center of the boat after the flip. Also created some form-fitting blocking, taking care to locate it so that it would clear the framing for the next flip. Please don't look to closely at the carpentry - power went out due to a sailboat coming loose from its mooring and getting tied up in the power lines along the seven mile bridge.



Anyway, all hand sawn and my hand saw sucks:



Flipped!:





Cleaned up the inside of the hull and layed out and cut the glass last night. Ready for the next round.

BTW - I have more fairing to do, but ran out of Quick Fair, so will have another go at it after the next flip

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:17 am BTW - I have more fairing to do, but ran out of Quick Fair, so will have another go at it after the next flip

Bravo dude, that was TEXTBOOK! Everything looking really clean, very well done! Getting all those layers to lay down on the chines is a real chore. If that's the worst of it in your photo, then that's a huge W.

You did the right thing wrapping the transom, I think the BOM is a little short on the fabric. I went light in the inside and did not run it up the sides as far as specced.

Really happy to see you got past that measurement snafu so quickly, great news that those panels were too wide and not to narrow, much simpler fix.

BTW, after I blew though my initial order, I got a 3qt kit of quickfar and a 3qt kit of Gelmagic and I use it like a rick kid. I found myself being stingy with it and then realized that it was an insane place to be cheap. And I know cheap, believe me!

Holy cow great progress!

Regarding the skeg, I had the same concern about losing draft. I fabricated strakes out of angle aluminum used as molds, pouring in mixed epoxy with milled glass.

I probably should have made mine longer for any real effect, but you might want to consider something similar. They're no lower than the keel of the hull.

I too wrapped the entire transom which I think is what is called for. I did run short on the inside, but had enough trimmings left over to compensate. I put it in the bow forward of Frame A with generous overlapping.

Holy sh*t, that is clean!

Nice work!

Dang guys - thanks. It helps that I had a week off work and got to focus on it.

Cameron - finish up those rubrails so I can cheat off of you. I really like the approach.

Trying for 2nd strip on stbd side tonight!

I only have enough clamps for one side at a time. That was another reason I went with this Thixo Fast Cure adhesive.

Trent,


Something occured to me in regard to your quickfair comment in your marathon post. I learned later, and maybe never went back and mentioned it, that what I should have done before starting to fair was sand down the stitching. The stitching is what is really proud and requires a ton of material to fill. Sand it until you start hitting actual glass, which runs 45 degrees to the stitching.

Just wanted to note it for future builders using this thread as a guide.

Build on!

Jeff

Yes Jeff, absolutely - a good bit of info for future builders.

I learned that same lesson by running out of the quick fair 3/4 through the first coat. Had to order more, and therefore sanded the last quarter of the hull and the already laid quick fair edges to ensure good adhesion. That's when I learned that you needed MUCH less after the stitching had a light sanding. And then I'm came across that same advice in an earlier post of yours that I wish I would have seen - or seeked out - earlier.

Yep sand it down until you start seeing the cross hatch in the glass. you do not want to go any more than that and cut into the glass. At that point Cracker Larry always liked to use a loose mix of resin and the BBC fairing compound to fill the weave and seal things up. doing that will also cut down on the QuickFair use.

Got the inside glassed and hope to install the stringers tomorrow night. No pics yet, but coming soon.

In the meantime, thought I'd post some material usage "pointers" for first time builders (like me) that might help them plan - things I would have liked to have known starting out. Don't know if this is good advice or not, but it's what I have experienced (someone please correct me if I'm giving bad advice):

Epoxy usage: I've just finished with the "kit" supplied epoxy (2 gals). It got me through the outside and inside glassing, including the butt splices on the stringers and hull panels. I glassed the entire outside of the hull, which is beyond plan spec. The inside is to plan spec. Don't really know if my usage is good or bad, just where I am. I have the stringers and frames left to tape, as well as any add-ons and the deck, depending on how I decide to handle that. There's probably more that I haven't realized yet.

More on epoxy usage: Generally, I have found that the following epoxy batches work well without much waste:
- Taping: 9 ounce batches work well for the first layers of keel & chine, each. This includes both wetting out the ply and the glass. Second layers, if wet-on-wet, can be done with 6 ounce batches. Use your judgement on shorter tapes (eg transom, etc.)
- Wide Fabric: 54 ounces for each, as follows: 21 ounces for the ply wet-out. 21 ounces for the bulk of the glass wet-out. After that, it's a judgement call, but on average, another 12 ounces to get it fully saturated.

Gloves and mixing sticks: Buy A LOT of gloves and mixing sticks (tongue depressors). I've been through 100 of each so far. I double glove so I can easily discard the top layer if things start getting too messy. Also avoids trying to put a new glove on a sweaty hand. I typically have new gloves on for every epoxy batch - might be overkill, but it keeps things from getting too sloppy.

Spreaders: I bought a bunch, but have only used 2 so far. As long as your mindful about cleaning them up, they last. You don't need a ton of these.

Rollers: I like them for wetting out the ply for wide sheets - not much else. Once they get sticky, if you use them to wet out the glass - they'll pull it up. There are probably folks that disagree, but it doesn't work for me.

Glass bubble rollers: I have two - a 3" and a 6". I expected to use them often and I do, but could probably get by without them. Good to have, but not absolutely necessary. Maybe I'll change my mind at some point.

Chip brushes: Buy a lot. I use a lot - not as many as I thought I would, but still a lot. Think I bought a box of 50 and that might be a good number for the entire build.

System Three stuff:
- Quick Fair: you'll need more
- Gel-magic: you'll need more
- EZ fillet: Not sure on this yet

BTW - very happy with the System Three stuff. I can't compare it to anything, but it's been super easy to use.

Anyway, hope that helps some future builder put a shopping list together.

If you have gotten this far with only two gallons of epoxy you have done very well! From what I can tell most builders need to start with double what the plans call for. New builders waste some and we all seem to add a bunch of stuff not called for in the plans.

Great pointers! I wish I would have tracked usage a little better in the early days. I let the excitement of the work distract me from that a bit.

I do know on top of using all of the fairing filler mix I got from BBC, I went through 1-1/2 3 quart kits of QuikFair on my hull. I'm thinking I'll need another kit to finish the inside. I'll probably use the remaining half kit I have on my console.

Hindsight being 20/20...I decided to go with a light coverage of 6oz biax all the way up the outside hull. The tape was the perfect width so that's what I used. What that led to was a significant amount of filling even after sanding down the stitching because the strands are so spread out. Lots of QuikFair was used in that. Would have been better to get some woven fabric if I wanted to do that again.

I do plan to list all the materials I bought and how much I have left at the end, though.

Nice work with the analysis Trent, you're doing the future builders a great service.

I don't want this on my build thread where I'll be reminded of it but I'll gladly post it on yours:


4.5 qts of qickfair
4.5 qts of Gelmagic,
1.5 qts of EZ Fillet,
somewhere between 6-8 gallons of Epoxy I think, I've kind of lost track on that.
A few quarts of wood flour.
In addition to the glass in the BOM I used maybe 100 total sq feet of 4oz and 6oz woven glass for the deck and sole.


Guesstimates on this stuff:
probably 4-5 boxes of gloves(still have to paint the deck)
6 rolls paper towels
6 rolls packing tape
6 rolls wide blue masking tape
4 sleeves plastic cocktail glasses(I like these for super-small batches and re-use when I can)
6 sleeves Red Solo Cups
few hundred mixing sticks, large and small
Box of large garbage bags
30-40 chip brushes
dozen bondo squegees
20-30 foam brushes
probably 100 sheets of sandpaper. I buy boxes of 20 and have to think I've used 5.
gallon of acetone
1-2 gallons of paint thinner and counting
probably a gallon of TotalBoat topside paint so far
few ounces of graphite
100' 12-2 tinned wire
12-16 board feet of Doug Fir
1-2 extra sheet of 6mm ply(I think I bought one extra and had some leftover from previous build)

Total cost? Don't want to know, ever. I sold my '87 Grady White Tournament 19' last summer so I could just get what I needed for this build and not overly sweat the cost. I was too cheap to put gas in it anyway.

I've been keeping a cost tally of materials and hardware. It's been a while since I updated though. I'm afraid to see what it is at this point!

bamaguy0 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:34 am I've been keeping a cost tally of materials and hardware. It's been a while since I updated though. I'm afraid to see what it is at this point!

Yeah, if I add in the other costs(fuel tank, fuel line, lights, hinges, hardware,steering, etc) it will add up quick.

Since it's looking more and more like insurance is harder to get, it may not matter in the end.

Probably a question for Jacques:

I'm debating between a deck hatch that accesses the bow compartment (forward of Frame A) vs. an access hole in Frame A that would be accessible from a deck hatch aft of Frame A. If I did the latter, what are the minimum dimensions I need to maintain at Fame A? For instance, the sketch below maintains a minimum of 3" all around the access hole. Would this be acceptable? Can the access hole be larger (preferably taller)?

A little taller is OK, with a 2" offset.
You could go for a 2" offset all around if your fiberglass taping is well done.

Thanks!

One more question - this time concerning "hard spots". I've been super careful avoiding hard spots with the hull panels, stringers and frames. Does this concept also apply to cleats (where they meet the hull); compartment sides (if abutting the stringers); and false floors (e.g. for battery and fuel tank supports)? Or can those elements come in direct wood-to-wood contact?

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:09 am One more question - this time concerning "hard spots". I've been super careful avoiding hard spots with the hull panels, stringers and frames. Does this concept also apply to cleats (where they meet the hull); compartment sides (if abutting the stringers); and false floors (e.g. for battery and fuel tank supports)? Or can those elements come in direct wood-to-wood contact?

No, hard spots only regard the hull bottom below the water line. Of course you should always have a little bit of space between what your gluing and the hull for epoxy glu;e mixture your using.

Tom

Trent,

here's a link to some talk about venting:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65386&p=481488&hilit=vent#p481488

And my vent, for better or for worse etc.

Another marathon post. I'm away from my build for the next 10 days or so, but have been able to put in some time each day up until now. Generally, I've gotten the stringers, frames, rubrails and lockers installed and had a good start on cleats before being pried away:

Stringers: I spaced and squared them up on the floor before the install.









Frames: I hung them from battens resting on the shear line to assure everything stayed aligned. This allowed me to scribe any needed trimming along the bottom and to ensure I had good consistent gaps.



Speaking of gaps...I had some sharpie sized ones that I fretted over for a few hours. My attempts to close them up were practically fruitless without taking the shear line out of fair. I did get a little bit out, but in the end decided to roll with it. I have since noticed a slight dip in the shear line (about 3/16") at midship, and suspect this gap is not completely guilty , but does play a roll in that.







Rubrails: I laid my rubrails flat following Cameron's lead, except I cut and glued (Gel Magic) some pre-wedges, because Cameron must have four arms and I only have two. I also flared/built up the rubrail forward of frame A by quite a bit. The goal is to get a large radius on the nose. I also have this idea to drill a hole that I'll use for a stake-out pin - so I needed some meat for that. Overall, it's about 2-3/4" inches proud of the hull tapering aft to 1".







I re-installed the frame battens which helped ensure the rubrail stayed aligned with the shear line.



Framed out the lockers. Fuel tank and misc. storage forward of Frame B. Battery and all electrical aft of Frame B (I'm reducing the cockpit), and storage/livewell aft of Frame D. I know the livewell is iffy weight wise, but I figure it's not a livewell until I fill it with water.



Got my fuel tank from Boyd's - opted for a sending unit/guage:



More rubrail:



In the end, I ran some dowels. Probably overkill, but adds some shear strength beyond the glue. Will give me some peace of mind during the next flip and for trying to rock her out of the mud flat that I'm sure she'll encounter on a few occasions.



So I mentioned that I was reducing the cockpit. This is the "frame" that will support the elongated forward deck. I used the 9mm ply backed by 3/4 pine.





The "lobes" attached to the battery locker will also accept my grab rail support per the sketch below:



Finally, I've got a good start on the cleats. Still need to do the sole cleats.





This is how she sits for the next 10 days. I'm probably going to finish out the cleats, get the conduit installed, and foam prior to flipping for hull paint. Based on how my motor search is going, I have plenty of time.

So many great ideas here Trent, really impressed. Hanging the frames like that, the wedges for the rubrails, squaring and unifying the stringers. Great stuff! I could have used some of those tricks on my build. I struggled with some of those steps that you cleverly figured out, bravo!

Incredible progress too!

Much thanks. And I might have just gotten a lead on a motor - trying not to get too excited about that, but it's really dry out there.

Maybe I'll have her in the water for "winter" and ready for your visit I heard it gets cold in your parts.

Great work! It's I wish I would've spent a little more time on squaring up my stringers. They're not bad, just had to do a little extra frame trimming.

Looking good. Great progress.

Does your fuel vent have a integral P-trap? If not you’ll need to add one or if you have space you can create an inverted loop in the hose to prevent water from coming in and spoiling your fuel. Unfortunately I learned that the hard way. Much easier to fix before you close everything up. I learned that the hard way too.

Keep up the good work!

2 months of searching, but I struck gold today

Damn! 20?

Mmm, 25. DAMN!

Yeah, I went all in on the 25. I figured if I got the itch, the next build would be a little bigger and I’d be set in the power category.

A couple of questions about the sole butt block and the sole install:

Does frame C get notched on the top to accept the 4" butt block? Or is the butt block actually 2 pieces spanning between frames B and C and D and C? My inclination was the first option, but that does put a notch in the top of a structural frame. Then I searched Jeff's build, which looks like the second option. I also had in my mind that the sole would get installed in two pieces, but it looks like Jeff glued up the entire sole and installed as one piece.

The "Construction" diagram appears to have the butt block on top of the frame and cleats, which can't be right unless the intent is to raise the entire sole by 9mm and I don't think it is.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:28 am A couple of questions about the sole butt block and the sole install:

Does frame C get notched on the top to accept the 4" butt block? Or is the butt block actually 2 pieces spanning between frames B and C and D and C? My inclination was the first option, but that does put a notch in the top of a structural frame. Then I searched Jeff's build, which looks like the second option. I also had in my mind that the sole would get installed in two pieces, but it looks like Jeff glued up the entire sole and installed as one piece.

The "Construction" diagram appears to have the butt block on top of the frame and cleats, which can't be right unless the intent is to raise the entire sole by 9mm and I don't think it is.

Yeah, my butt blocks left space for the frame c cleats and space for the cleats at the front/back of the cockpit. I had a lot of other noise going on with the console shoes and it seemed like the simper option. The sole is still completely supported without the contnuous butt block.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:28 am The "Construction" diagram appears to have the butt block on top of the frame and cleats

It's on top of frame C but set-in to the aft cleat.I think he has Frame C 9mm too low in that drawing is my best guess.

The picture above is extracted from the plans.
That is how it is done: there is a butt block under the two sole halves.

On the station drawings, the baseline is the lower face of the sole. If you want to follow the plans, deduct the thickness of the butt block but if you don't, it will be just as good. Just make certain that you are consistent about the level of the floor for the battens on B and D. Just draw the level of the sole on each and you will see what to do.

You could splice the sole but I like a nice butt block there. It reinforces the sole.

PS: do not worry about the weird corner in the perspective view, it's a drafting mistake, we should show thickness there.

Some small milestones...

Installed the fuel tank base following mostly what others have done I think:



Here's the dog (Karma)...wondering when we'll go fishing again. She's scared of everything except tennis balls, water, boats and power tools (unless it's a vacuum cleaner).



Sole cleats are installed. Thanks for the replies on my question about the butt splice. I think I have my install methodology figured out now.





Built a stand for the new motor (didn't have a space big enough to store it in the box) and got it stowed away:



Laid out and dry fit my conduit for the fuel vent, fuel supply, starting cables, stern pumps and anchor light, bow nav lights, etc.





Got out on the reef. I'm not really a "reef" guy, but the wind laid down for the first time in months and made for a nice flat day. Brought home a nice Mangrove Snapper and barely legal Hogfish for dinner. I don't usually keep barely legal fish, but a Hogfish on hook-and-line is a rarity and they are one of the best eating fish there is. And of course, hooked up on a nice Wahoo with the smallest rod & reel on the boat - that didn't end well.







My bow cleat will also be a lifting eye and the hardware came in for that. It's a pretty serious piece. These pics don't do it justice as to the size of it and this is the "small" version. Unfortunately, it will mean that my bow eye will be further aft than I would like. I'm considering using two carriage bolts in the lieu of the eye, but then I still need an eye and two more holes in the boat:





Overdrilled/filled/drilled my transom holes (garboard, livewell pump and drain, bildge pump, and tiedown/lifting eyes). I hate nothing more than drilling holes in boats - it just feels wrong:



Finally, finished shaping the rubrails. I beladored this and thought about all kinds of jigs for the radii, but in the end just marked a line with a compass, cut the bulk off with a circular saw and finished the shaping with a belt sander and 40-grit paper. I'm happy with the stern, but something about the bow lines are bothering me and I can't put my finger on it yet. I'm going to keep looking at it and see if I want to reshape it:





It's looking like I'm going to plow through with the topside before flipping to finish the hull, minus decks and hatches. My buoyancy foam is on the way. I'm planning on a lot more than plan/spec (6 gallons) - mostly for sound abatement. I tap my finger on this 1/4" hull and I imagine it's going to be a noisy boat otherwise. BTW, anyone notice the price jump on foam? I talked with Jeff and he said his distributor passed the increase directly to BBC. I guess it's COVID related. I've been thinking of ordering for over a month now and just waited to long. Bummer. Anyway, the conduit will go in as part of that process. I'll also install the sole and paint the inside of the lockers.

Mojosmantra, nice progress on the build!!! Great catch, I think Hogfish are the best eating saltwater fish!!! Jeff

Awesome work! Can't wait to get mine back over and start detailing her out!

That's a lot of work for a small update!

I'm not seeing any issue with the shape of the bow, it looks fine from here. Is the "blemish" obvious to you in the photo?

Not really a “blemish” - just something about the shape that’s not sitting well with me. It could just be that I got used to the sharp point, which I liked a lot but it had to go since I’m using a store bought rub rail.

Understood. Funny how radii can either work or not. I originally had radii on the stern-end corners of my blue "stripe" and HATED it! Made the whole thing look like a giant childs toy(which, ok, maybe it actually is...). But on the bow it was fine and on the non-skid corners it's critical.

"I beladored this and thought about all kinds of jigs for the radii, but in the end just marked a line with a compass, cut the bulk off with a circular saw and finished the shaping with a belt sander and 40-grit paper."

This is how boats get splashed and fish get caught, nicely done!

The bow looks great to me too, btw. It's about the same as mine. Makes sense since you're going with a off the shelf rub rail. Have you picked one out yet?

Most likely the Taco 1-1/4”, which is the depth/height of my rubrail. Depending on the height of the bottom “lip”, it should give me about 1/2” of exposed deck above. Taco doesn’t provide the lip dimension, which is frustrating and makes for a bit of guesswork unless you buy it in advance.

Gotcha, I already have mine on hand for that exact purpose. It's the 1-1/16 x 11/16 and that lip is about 1/8 thick.

bamaguy0 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:09 pm Awesome work! Can't wait to get mine back over and start detailing her out!

Thanks. Really enjoying the topside work, which is where the design and customizing and thinking about how it will really be used seems to happen - at least on a simple hull like this one. I’ve already changed a few things from what I had on paper.

I’m admiring all the finish work you’ve been doing but also kind of dreading all the fairing, sanding and the search for perfection. I also want to first paint my lockers before I flip - just to get a feel for the paint, the process and how much of an issue dust and mosquitoes will be for me since I’m working in the open air. Of course, the longer I wait, the worse the bug problem will be. And then there’s the fact that I can’t seem to decide on a color...

If I'm being honest I'm losing a bit of steam working on the bottom side. I'm the same as you with the topside work. It's more appreciable and I feel like I can get more accomplished in a day. Especially where I'm at now, I don't make much progress each day, but it has to get done to keep moving forward.

For reference, I had a color picked out for a few months before I ordered paint. Changed my mind right before I ordered. I'm still happy with it though!

I forgot to mention this - I have been using System Three products exclusively and have been more than happy with them and have zero complaints. Some time ago, when placing an order for some additional taping glass, I also ordered some epoxy knowing that I would need it eventually - and I accidentally ordered Marinepoxy. When I realized that, my only concern was making sure there were no compatibility issues, which Reid laid to rest and then mentioned that he would like to know what I thought about it. Well I just cracked into it a few days ago to do a final neat coat in the cavities that will receive foam. I couldn’t tell much of a difference. I think it felt slightly different when mixing - in a good way. Seemed a little “silkier” and slightly thicker when mixing (perhaps that might make wetting out some glass slightly more difficult, but I doubt it). Otherwise it behaved much like the S3 stuff. Keep in mind my very limited experience, but at a lower cost and assuming any differences in strength are negligible, I won’t hesitate to purchase it again.

Just putting that out there for anyone looking to save a few bucks.

Mojosmantra, Thank you for the comments regarding the comparison of SystemThree SilverTip and our MarinEpoxy epoxy!!! Jeff

Another marathon post...I can't seem to do this on a regular basis. Last post was shaping rubrails. Since then:

Prepping for foam, installed the sole butt block. I went about it a bit differently by insetting it into the cleats from frame D to C:



My cockpit is shortened, so rather than spanning again from C to B, the other butt block "thwarts" between the stringers and will double as a backing plate for the the grabrail mount:



Cardboard template for the half sole:



You may start to notice how I have compartmentalized things, essentially extending the stringers up to the deck. At the stern, I cut some access/inspection holes. The XPS foam serves as a dam for the foam and a temporary conduit support:





I made these little "support rings" for a some extra support for the conduit ends:



First foam pour. You can see how I used the "support rings" at the conduit end:



A few more foam pics below, which may raise some eyebrows. I have alot of foam. Probably too much (6 gallons) in all. I'm still not sure if it was the right move or not. It didn't dawn on me until afterwards how much weight, perhaps unnecessary, I added. But I justified it in my mind in a few ways. First, I wanted to deaden the hull. Second, it acts as a great conduit support. At the stern, it provides insulation for my fishbox/livewell. So it's doing alot of good things. Finally, if all of this area was open and available for storage, I would have put stuff in it. I've never had a boat with extra storage space. There always seems to be something you need if there is space to put it in. So, if not foam, then it would undoubtedly been filled with something else. With all that said, I'm still not sure it was the right move, but what's done is done. I've always envisioned her as a giant motorized surfboard and I guess she really is now. One thing is for sure - she will not sink. It will be good to have that confidence when I'm all alone 20 miles in the backcountry.









When I cut the foam, there were areas with some pretty large bubbles. Filling them with epoxy would have taken a ton of neat epoxy, which would have been really expensive and heavy (yes, now I'm concerned about weight). So I did a fill of epoxy & microspheres, which extended my epoxy by about four times. That's why it's white. I still applied a neat coat over that:



Sole dry fit, glue down, and glass:













A day on the water with the dog:



With the sole down, I installed my gunnel supports. I used a "beam" approach, which is a departure from plan. I wanted to sole to be clear of any obstructions and was able to do this because of the shortened cockpit. The initial beam was a 1"x2" laminated with plywood on one side. It had a little flex so I added another layer of ply, which stiffened it up nicely:







Finally, fairing and painting the lockers. Two passes of Quick Fair, one coat of System 3 primer, and two coats of bilge paint. I used Total Bilge, which turned out well but was certainly not a pleasure to work with. Maybe it's the heat, but it tacked up quickly and it was difficult to keep a wet edge. Total Boat calls it an epoxy and it certainly worked like an epoxy - but it wasn't 2-part. It was straight out of the can. I thought epoxy was 2-part by definition?









Can't end without a little fishing. My Dad came for a visit for the first time since COVID. I was more than happy to put him on some fish and I think he was too. In my book, there is nothing more fun than some big Jack and some Juvenile Tarpon...

Your work is looking good. Dad looks Happy with that Jack.

Tom

Nice work, indeed.

Your attitude about the foam is the best way to deal with it. Spend a great deal of time thinking about what will work best, then go for it!

Of all accomplished, the small recess for the bilge drain jumps out at me as a smart feature. The bottom of the recess is the top of the butt block. Right?

Also, great fish! Did Dad catch them all, or did you get on some too?

Great work! I like how you approached the sole.

It's been interesting to see how between you, Jeff, and myself, we can build the same boat yet make them totally different.

Wow, marathon is right! I used no foam and one thing that stands out is engine noise at certain rpm, the whole boat resonates pretty fierce. also when I smack waves hard, I silently wish I had some foam to help stiffen the bottom panels and make me less paranoid about over-deflection. So def not a bad way to spend 40-50 pounds.

I also switched from system 3 to marine and also didnt notice too much difference, at least with the slow. The fast hardener gave me some headaches early on but I started using it fir glue and filler only and used the slow for wetting and coating, worked great that way. I'm just too slow moving for fast hardener.

Your deck and sole layout is really interesting, looks very well thought out and executed like the rest of your work. Cant wait to see the finished vision.

Is the total bilge a pre catalyzed epoxy? I used a lot of total products and had some good and some not so good experience, I found the primer hard to work with, though I now wish I had worked harder at it as it did provide a good surface once on. I skimped on primer severely.

Awesome on the fishing with your dad, making us green up here!

Keep on!

"Thinking about a keel/skeg - not convinced yet, but thinking this would be the layout - tapering from bow to stern, stopping short of the transom by 18" per plan suggestion. I like a boat that tracks, but also don't want to lose 1.5" in draft. Any thoughts on that?"

Thoughts on that: My boat has no skeg and last time out I did notice it would slip side-to-side a bit at speed. Seems to corner fine. Cameron and I worked out that you should be able to add a tapering skeg up to about .85 inch without adding any draft due to the low point at the bow being .85 inches lower than the transom low point. If I were back at that stage, that's what I would do. Cameron may be able to give you the offsets for that skeg from his drawing/model.

Dan_Smullen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:20 am Nice work, indeed.

Your attitude about the foam is the best way to deal with it. Spend a great deal of time thinking about what will work best, then go for it!

Of all accomplished, the small recess for the bilge drain jumps out at me as a smart feature. The bottom of the recess is the top of the butt block. Right?

Also, great fish! Did Dad catch them all, or did you get on some too?

Thanks Dan. Yes - the bottom of the cockpit drain is the top of the butt block. Can’t take credit for that - think I first saw it here but I’m forgetting the posters name at the moment.

Dad caught all the big ones and I focused on making sure he got them to the boat…and on dinner since I promised my wife some snapper. We ate well.

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:38 am "Thinking about a keel/skeg - not convinced yet, but thinking this would be the layout - tapering from bow to stern, stopping short of the transom by 18" per plan suggestion. I like a boat that tracks, but also don't want to lose 1.5" in draft. Any thoughts on that?"

Thoughts on that: My boat has no skeg and last time out I did notice it would slip side-to-side a bit at speed. Seems to corner fine. Cameron and I worked out that you should be able to add a tapering skeg up to about .85 inch without adding any draft due to the low point at the bow being .85 inches lower than the transom low point. If I were back at that stage, that's what I would do. Cameron may be able to give you the offsets for that skeg from his drawing/model.

Thanks Jeff - good to hear some real world experience. I was leaning towards a keel - but now that I’ve probably cost myself some draft with extra weight, skegs may be the way to go after all. I’m about 2 weeks out from flipping and will need to make the decision then.

bamaguy0 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:21 am Great work! I like how you approached the sole.

It's been interesting to see how between you, Jeff, and myself, we can build the same boat yet make them totally different.

I hear you Cameron. It’s super interesting how they are all so different.

I’ve had some tricked out Jon boats in my past and while I loved the care free indestructible hull, the noise drove me nuts. I think that’s what primarily drove my thinking with the foam - to not have that again.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:29 pm

Dan_Smullen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:20 am Nice work, indeed.

Your attitude about the foam is the best way to deal with it. Spend a great deal of time thinking about what will work best, then go for it!

Of all accomplished, the small recess for the bilge drain jumps out at me as a smart feature. The bottom of the recess is the top of the butt block. Right?

Also, great fish! Did Dad catch them all, or did you get on some too?

Thanks Dan. Yes - the bottom of the cockpit drain is the top of the butt block. Can’t take credit for that - think I first saw it here but I’m forgetting the posters name at the moment.

Dad caught all the big ones and I focused on making sure he got them to the boat…and on dinner since I promised my wife some snapper. We ate well.

Just remembered - Seaslug

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:35 pm

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:38 am "Thinking about a keel/skeg - not convinced yet, but thinking this would be the layout - tapering from bow to stern, stopping short of the transom by 18" per plan suggestion. I like a boat that tracks, but also don't want to lose 1.5" in draft. Any thoughts on that?"

Thoughts on that: My boat has no skeg and last time out I did notice it would slip side-to-side a bit at speed. Seems to corner fine. Cameron and I worked out that you should be able to add a tapering skeg up to about .85 inch without adding any draft due to the low point at the bow being .85 inches lower than the transom low point. If I were back at that stage, that's what I would do. Cameron may be able to give you the offsets for that skeg from his drawing/model.

Thanks Jeff - good to hear some real world experience. I was leaning towards a keel - but now that I’ve probably cost myself some draft with extra weight, skegs may be the way to go after all. I’m about 2 weeks out from flipping and will need to make the decision then.

I can draw something up if you want it to hug the shape of the keel. Just let me know if your hull is built to the plans or scaled.

bamaguy0 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:18 pm

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:35 pm

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:38 am "Thinking about a keel/skeg - not convinced yet, but thinking this would be the layout - tapering from bow to stern, stopping short of the transom by 18" per plan suggestion. I like a boat that tracks, but also don't want to lose 1.5" in draft. Any thoughts on that?"

Thoughts on that: My boat has no skeg and last time out I did notice it would slip side-to-side a bit at speed. Seems to corner fine. Cameron and I worked out that you should be able to add a tapering skeg up to about .85 inch without adding any draft due to the low point at the bow being .85 inches lower than the transom low point. If I were back at that stage, that's what I would do. Cameron may be able to give you the offsets for that skeg from his drawing/model.

Thanks Jeff - good to hear some real world experience. I was leaning towards a keel - but now that I’ve probably cost myself some draft with extra weight, skegs may be the way to go after all. I’m about 2 weeks out from flipping and will need to make the decision then.

I can draw something up if you want it to hug the shape of the keel. Just let me know if your hull is built to the plans or scaled.

That would be awesome Cameron. The hull is all to spec.

Check your PM's.

You only need a small skeg 3/4 x 3/4 x 5'' would be more than enough. on an FS14LS. Good luck on what you decide.

Tom

bamaguy0 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:43 pm Check your PM's.

Much thanks Cameron.

Another long post…last update was painting my inside lockers. Since then, I’ve installed my insulated locker/livewell in, test-fit the motor, flipped, faired and am now in the middle of painting the hull. I’ll make a separate post on the painting since I want to go into some detail on that and probably need some advice.

Anyway, here are a bunch of pics and some brief explanations:

Insulated locker – The bottom and fore and aft sides are "sandwiches" of ply and XPS foam. This is the outer shell. The four holes are for drainage should any water make it's way into the sandwich. The fore side got two layers of insulation just to give me enough thickness to route my cockpit drain. I filleted and glassed the inside and followed that up with fairing, primer and pigmented neat epoxy. I had a couple of issues with the pigmented epoxy. First, I ordered the wrong color blue. Second, I ordered a pearlescent pigment (My wife says it looks like a bowling ball). More importantly, the first coat of epoxy fisheyed like crazy. The pearlescent pigments seemed to have some big granules in it and I didn’t think about sifting/straining it until the later coats. It all worked out in the end but made it a bigger sanding job than it needed to be. Lesson learned.









Dryfit the motor and took some measurements to ensure my grabrail design is right. Most importantly, I got a good look at the cavitation plate height relative to the hull. Didn’t get any pics of that, but I think it’s going to be a couple of inches too low. So I ordered and dryfit a Vance jackplate.







Where my rubrail wraps the transom, I fit “deck” pieces on top of that, which will eventually be flush with the deck. Since I’m aiming to paint the hull, I wanted to get that in place now.



I fit two temporary bunks on my trailer to assist in the flip but will also serve as my trailer. I don’t have space for another trailer and she will be hung from a davit. Theoretically, the only time I’ll need a trailer is for some significant maintenance or for hurricanes.







Flipped her – and she’s much heavier than the first time.



Lobster season is here :



After the flip, the first order of business was to get the underside of the rubrails sanded, filled and filleted. I wanted a large radius which took two passes of EZ fillet.







Then it was time for the final fairing, which has been a 2 steps forward 1 step back kind of process. In hindsight, I’m glad I flipped early. I don’t think I would have had the patience to stick with fairing and painting in one shot for that long. One of the steps back was using a powdered guidecoat over the quickfair. I read somewhere that that was a good idea. For me, it made more mess than it was worth. Perhaps the spray can method is a better approach at this stage.







After getting the fairing to a good place, it was time for the skeg. Thanks to Cameron for sketching it up for me. Rather than struggle with cutting a skeg and figuring out how to adhere it to the hull, I decided to pour it in place and let gravity do the work for me. I made a quick form, tacked it on with hot glue and then sealed it up with plumber’s putty. Then I poured neat epoxy in small “lifts” while sprinkling in some shredded glass. I still ended up with some rough edges (should have packed the putty a bit more) and had to fair it in, but I think it came out well and if I ding it, I won’t be worried about rot or anything like that.













Finally ready for priming. I started with two coats and then blocked it with 80-grit. After that, given how much I had sanded through (maybe it wasn’t as fair as I thought), another two coats. For me, this is where the powdered guidecoat shines in exposing roller marks and other stuff that you can otherwise see or feel. Unfortunately, it took another pass with 80-grit to get it all level out again. I think I laid the primer too thick, although it certainly didn't seem like that when I was doing it. So, another coat of primer, which I was able to get level with 220 and finally 320. Still some sand through, but decided to roll with it.














Gave her a bath. She’s ready for paint, which is happening now and going really well. Will post that process later this week.



Here are some shots of the first coat of paint...she actually has four coats on now, but more on that later...

She looks great!

Very nice!

Thanks guys. I'm pretty happy with how it's turning out - but there are some flaws that I'm pondering what to do with. She's certainly not perfect, but looks pretty good.

This is a longwinded one, but I thought share my paint materials, process, and things I've learned along the way for future builders - and then point out the flaws:

Paint: Alexseal 501; Brush Converter (Catalyst); Brush Reducer; and "No Tip" additive (5018). The color is cloud white. I've gone back and forth between Ice Blue and White for months. Grey was in the mix early on. In the end, I like white boats - so that's what I went with.

Paint Mix: 2 parts 501 + 1 part Converter, let rest for 20 minutes, then add 1 part reducer, mix, then the "no tip additive", which is 1% of the overall mix. I found that 16 ounces of the paint mix is about right for a single coat. The reducer at 1 part is maxed out (Alexseal's recommendation is 1/2 to 1 part) given that I'm painting in 95-degree temps. Calculating the 5018 is a matter of converting your overall mixture from Ounces to Milliliters and then multiplying by .01. In my case, 16 ounces = 473ml x .01 = 4.73ml, which is pretty easy to measure with a medicine dropper. I mixed everything and then strained it. The whole process of mixing takes about 30-minutes, so it's good to plan how your going to use the in-between time.

Rollers/Brushes: 4" high density foam rollers and a small 3/4" natural bristle brush for tight corners like the skeg. I found that 99% of this hull can be done solely with the roller. I found that with the foam roller, it's all about how much pressure you apply. It takes a little while to find the sweet spot and it depends on how "loaded" it is. I will say that it is not a great idea to start each new coat in the same place on the hull. There is less paint "loaded" in the roller at the beginning, and starting in the same spot over and over makes for less coverage in that area. I made this mistake on the first two coats.

As far as my final prep/cleaning process, I considered wiping down with acetone and denatured alcohol and read all of the pros and cons on both. I've seen is stated that Alexseal recommends denatured alcohol, but I didn't find that - they just say to clean, but not with anything specific as far as I can tell. In the end, I just washed the hull with a mild detergent, dried it with a towel in one clean sweep let it air dry for an hour or two. Just before paint (while the paint is "mixing"), I went over the hull very lightly with a tack cloth. I've read to use caution with tack cloths because some can leave a problematic residue behind. I used a 3M "wood refinisher's" tack cloth that worked just fine. In the end, I had zero issues with fisheyes, solvent pop, dust, etc.

I expected coverage to be an issue for me and it has been. I think multiple factors play into that. First, I'm painting white over grey primer. Second, I had some sand-through-spots on the primer, and third, at 1-part reducer, my paint is pretty thin. I expected 4-coats and that's where I'm at now. I've also sanded between each coat - after the first coat with 320 and then the rest of the coats with 400 (Alexseal's recommendation is 320 to 400). I finally got full coverage with the 4th coat. Ideally, I would have laid down 2 coats initially without sanding, but I couldn't get the timing windows to work for that. Due to bugs, low light conditions and artificial lighting were out of the question. I learned that with the primer.

So, she looks great from a distance, but there are some flaws that I want to fix. I figure that I've got this much time and effort into it, why not get it as good as I can. The first two coats had virtually no orange peal, but it started to show up in coats 3 and four. There are also a couple of roller marks where I'm guessing I overdid it on my back rolling. I think I am going to sand one more time with a guidecoat and hope I am past my coverage issues. I've also been researching wet sanding, compunding, polishing, etc. - but it seems best to go with another coat. Curious if anyone has any thoughts on that.

Here she is after the first coat sanding:





After the second coat - you can see the some of the coverage issues although the pics don't do it justice:





And some of the orange peel in this reflective photo. The transomn is the worst, which I can't figure out because the sides have a lot less. Perhaps a bad sanding effort on the transom. If I hadn't seen the first two coats go down without any of this, I'd be happy as a clam and call this done:



This is from the side, where there is very little orange peal:



And the most bothersome spot where I "over backrolled". There are actually two of these spots, but I couldn't get the other to shoe in a photo:

Couple of great posts here Trent, extremely instructive for those following behind. I really like your poured-skeg idea, that will be indestructible.

I have very mediocre finishing/painting skills and so cannot comment much there, except to say that your are right to spend the extra time to get it how you want it, too much time and cost already to end up with something you feel you could have done better.

On the tack-cloth, my understanding is that a tack cloth is basically cheese cloth and varnish, which is typically oil-based, and so it can leave behind oil, which is fine for removing dust if you're varnishing, but much less fine if you're painting. That's just my .02 since you mentioned it, sounds like it worked fine for you. I had the same experience trying to figure out what to clean with: I read good and bad about acetone, alcohol, etc. With all the painting horror stories out there it's easy to get paralyzed in the prep step, no doubt. In the end I did wipe with acetone but I had a few areas where I did not get good adhesion, still no idea why.

Your rubrails are stout, I really like that look. Mine are tall, quite tall, and work pretty well for spray, I suspect yours will be amazing with the extension they have out from the sheer.

Best of luck with next steps, really looking great!

Thanks Jeff. One thing about tack rags - I think you have to use them properly. I've never used them at all. They always seemed a bit overkill to me. So I looked up a few videos and found that you don't just take them out of the package and start wiping. You probably already know this, but you unfold them, let them dry out a bit, softly wad them up and then just lightly sweep the surface with them. I was paranoid about it and probably erred on the cautious side. Maybe they didn't do anything for me and I just wasted some money. Anyway, had I not done the research, I would have taken it out of the package and just started wiping and I have to think that's how the "stuff" gets transferred to the surface. I do know that I've had no issues with dust. One good thing about washing the boat is that, as part of that process, I also sprayed down the floor and soaked the landscape areas in the immediate vicinity. That probably did more to reduce dust than anything.

And yes, the rubrails are stout. Perhaps too stout aesthetically - especially once I add the finish rail. My wife said they were deep enough before I added another layer and she was probably right . I do hope they will help with spray as that was the thinking behind them...we shall see. I made the nose extra deep because I had planned to put a hole in it for a stake out pole, while still leaving room for a future trolling motor mount, if desired. For the moment, I've stepped back from the stake-out idea but it's still in the back of my mind.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:49 pm My wife said they were deep enough before I added another layer and she was probably right

You’ve been married long enough that the first two words ensure the last four words no matter how wrong she may have actually been.

Jaysen wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:36 pm

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:49 pm My wife said they were deep enough before I added another layer and she was probably right

You’ve been married long enough that the first two words ensure the last four words no matter how wrong she may have actually been.

I will say that I did not know anything about those techniques with Tack Cloths. Although I did read after I bought mine that there's painters tack cloths and woodworking tack cloths. I think the painters ones are less tacky and less likely to leave residue?

I did also use the reccomendation from Pettit of wiping the entire surface to be painted with brushing primer after the tack cloth wipe. That stuff burns my nostrils when I don't have an OV filter on my respirator so I'm sure it took care of any tack cloth residue.

Little to no progress in the last month or so. With school starting back with full "normalcy", my living arrangements have changed and I'm back in Miami. After being in the Keys full time for the last 18 months - not happy about that at all, but it is what it is. I'll still manage to be there 2 or 3 times a month, but only in 3-4 day spurts and there's fishing to do . I did attempt to perfect the paint. Sanded. Painted. Got hit by a Hurricane Ida cell and some 30 MPH sideways rain just as I was finishing up and had to do it all again. In the end, it looks no better or worse than when I started and it seems that paint "perfection" is not in my skill set. So the paint is done, she's flipped and ready for the deck.





So - if I want to finish her up in a reasonable amount of time, I've come to the conclusion that I have to move her to Miami and am thinking that I need to adjust my trailer plans. I had added some bunks to my "big" trailer with the expectation that I only needed to get her to the ramp two or three times a year a couple of miles away. Now I have to tow her 130 miles (partly in 70 MPH Miami traffic) and think I need well-fitting trailer and proper weight distribution - looking for some advice on that. I gather from Cameron's posts that he got a Continental A1515 (see chart below) and he's a +5% build. That model seems a bit bigger than necessary for my spec build so I'm looking at the A1412, which seems sufficient from a capacity perspective and I like the small size given my storage limitations. At only 66" wide (my beam is 64" at the rubrail) the bunks would have to be adjusted so that she sits above the wheel fenders. That's probably fine unless it creates a launching issue with the hull sitting so high. Along the same lines, a cheaper and more readily available option would be a jetski trailer (WC3E12) but that's really narrow at 56". Wondering what you guys think. The fallback would be the A1515 like Cameron's, but it will be more expensive and more than I think I really need. There's a good chance that I will end up selling the trailer once she's done and moved back to the Keys, where I can revert back to my big trailer modification. Any input appreciated!

Nice work!!! Jeff

I will eventually look at getting mine lower in the back. May make some custom bunk brackets after the boat is finished. My goal is to not get the hubs wet, but I need to go set it in the water to see if that's doable. I understand torsion axles sit the trailer lower as well, so I'll be looking into that eventually also.

Regarding paint, I was the same way. Perfection is the enemy of good enough. As far as mine goes, she's a 10 footer!

Finally back at it. Got a trailer - not the trailer I really wanted (not aluminum), but it's a perfect fit and it works great for my build/storage area.



Back in the Keys - got the deck roughed out and then it was time to pack her up for the move:









Prepping for the move to the new build space:



Alot of stuff has to come along:



This is where I'll have to finish her. Got it as rain-proof as I could.



Currently laying out hatches, cleats, bow-lift eye and associated reinforcing.

Hit a bit of a milestone yesterday - hatch gutters are complete! Also got my bow lift eye dry fit.

Ended up cutting the threaded rod in half (6") to get the right fit. In the pic, it's still full length (12"). Also reinforced the bow deck (the home plate looking piece) for the lift eye pop-up cleat and also for a trolling motor. I still haven't committed to a trolling motor but am making it trolling motor "ready".







Now for the hatch gutters. Cut out the hatches:







My method for the gutters is a bit of a hybrid approach given that my compartments are "boxed out". My gutters are more like cleats attached to the compartment walls rather than members than span from frame-to-frame. Given that, I first cut the side, fore and aft pieces and pre-dadoed them to remove the bulk of the wood prior to routing. The wood is clear cypress. There's nothing like the smell of cypress in the morning...





After gluing up the sides, I then inserted the corner pieces.





I sanded all that flat, and ten made the interior deck router guides to provide a 1" wide gutter. Like Cameron's, these will eventually be cut down further to double up the hatch lids.



I never really figured out in advance how the gutters would drain - so I ended up taking a page from Cameron's book to interconnect the gutters. This worked out nicely at the stern, although it did require a bit of surgery on the back wall of my livewell. Just had to remove a bit of insulation and replace it with a solid wood filler. Simple enough.





At the bow, I had to approach it differently. Extending the gutters to the cockpit would interfere with my grabrail mount locations. It would have worked, but wouldn't have looked very nice. Instead, I just interconnected to two bow hatches and they will drain to 5/8" weep holes in the cockpit bulk head. Forgot to take specific pictures of that, but you can see them at the rear (left side of pic) of the smaller hatch.





That's it for now. All that's left on the deck is to reinforce/drill for the stern cleats, anchor light, and rod holders.

Looking good!

A busy couple of weeks but I applaud your perseverance in getting the bot where you can stay on it. Paint looks great!

Nice work!!! Jeff

Man, you really do some nice work Trent, that hull looks slippery!

It's shame about the grab-rail mount location, running those drains right into the cockpit would have been ideal. I suspect the weep holes will work just as well.

Great work all-around on the hatches and gutters, that seems like a straightforward model to follow whether you're dealing with the "containers" inside the hatches or just some hatch framing, I think it would work well with ether case.

Working on hatch lids today and need to determine the location of backing for the hinges. Is there any rule-of-thumb for hinge placement relative to the length of the hatch? I’ve got two small hatches that are of no concern - but I have one that’s 32”.

I put mine pretty close to the corners on the long ones in hope's that they may discourage warping. Good question on rule of thumb, dont know about that.

I got the same thing to figure out, Trent. My plan was to just eyeball it and see what looked right.

I do plan on reviewing some photos of other boats and shoot for something similar.

It’s been a while since my last progress post. It’s a rainy vacation day and I’m away from the boat, so I have some time on my hands. Current status is that the deck is glued and ready for glass. As you guys know, there have been a myriad of small tasks to get to that point and I’ve been doing them concurrently – so my pictures and timeline are all over the place. I wanted to make sure that finishing out the deck was a fairly painless process and I’ve been spending a lot of time on “underneath” areas that you won’t see but would be a royal PITA to do after the deck is glued down. That included:

• Neat epoxing and painting the underside of the hatch gutters. Not fun unless you like to work upside down. Because of the way I boxed in my hatch compartments, the underside of the gutters is a “finished” surface that I’ll want to clean from time to time.

• Also, because of the way I reduced the cockpit and have overhanging deck “cubbies”, I wanted those areas faired and finished in advance of the deck – to avoid some back breaking positions that I’d have to get in otherwise and avoid the sloppy work caused by that. While I was at it, I faired and primed the sole and inside of the gunwales too.

• Got all the holes cut in the deck: Lift eye, cleats, rod holders, anchor light & trolling motor plug.

• Built and finished the hatches and mortised for hinges.

• Overdrilled and filled hardware screw holes.

• Neat epoxy on the underside of deck pieces.

• Installed lift eye and nav lights. All other electrical has easy access with the deck in place.

• And finally decided on a rubrail (Thanks Jeff – I will be ordering soon)

Here’s some pics…

Hatches - fitting the lids for ¼” gap all around





Laying out the pieces:



After glue-up, using some hole saw discards to form the epoxy corner interior radius





My hinge mortise jig









Dry-fitting the latches



Neat epoxy & glass





Fairing & priming the sole and hatches







Started thinking about how to hang the electrical and fuel lines where there’s no conduit. I had planned on typical screw in hangers. Then started wondering if I should overdrill and epoxy those holes. Then thought about what I would need to do for future additions or repairs. Decided against that method and chose to make some hangers for the underside of the gunwales and forward deck:



Also added some hangers for courtesy lights:



Finishing all those hard-to-get-to-underside surfaces:





Glued the deck:





Here’s a pick of the underside finish. Removing the tape that was protecting from squeeze out and the various positions I had to get in to see what I was doing confirmed my decision to get this part of the finish work behind me:



Finally selected a rubrail. I had always planned on Taco, but my planning turned out to be a little off. I couldn’t find a Taco model that fit perfectly what I had built. So then I started considering a bright rubrail and did a lot of research into that as the bow and the stern “corners” would need to be steam bent or more likely, laminated due to the tight radii. I had always avoided a bright rubrail for maintenance reasons. I’ve already got plenty of things to maintain. So I took another look at Tessilmare, specifically the R-30. Jeff at BBC was kind enough to get me a sample and I think it’s going to be perfect. Note that I think I have it upside down here. I think the intent is that the “lip” is designed to hug the deck seam on a production boat. That won’t work for me, but this will:



This is where she is now:

Very nice work!!!! Jeff

That looks incredible! I like the hatch lids. I wanted to do a lip around the perimeter but I struggled with how to do the corners. That's a great idea!

I guess if mine warp and I have to rebuild them then I will plan for that.

Crimony Trent, that is some crazy high-quality, professional looking work! Gold-plating not required! I can now attest to the fact that trying to keep the boat clean in places where the paint is not fair and very smooth is about impossible, so you're really going to appreciate that effort, will pay off big-time. Big ups on all of that!

I also like that rounding technique. I took a much longer way around the barn on that with my poling platform. Once again, I wish you and Cameron had done your builds before me! I like the look of my bright rubrail but it's a major hassle around docks since the boat is too oddly shaped in many cases to use fenders effectively, so good choice on the plastic, will save you a lot of needless worry and will look great.

Build on!

I think you rub rail is upside down. If you hook that 1/4 kick out under the rub rail then as water splashed up the hull it dies into the rub rail as it hangs over. It made my ride extremely dry for a little boat.

cbuf

Cbuf - I’ve been pondering your suggestion but am away from the boat and haven’t been able to “test” what I think you are saying. Are you saying to let the R-30 hang below the bottom surface of the rubrail? I can see how that could make for a drier ride.

I was using the R-30 to cover the deck seam, which it would not do if I lowered it. However, there is really no reason that I couldn’t wrap the rubrail when I glass the deck so that the seam disappears. Right? I think the only consideration would be aesthetic and whether the profile of the whole assembly gets too thick.

If your concern is that deck seam, you could just pack it with some thickened epoxy and sand it flush then fair any remaining low points. I'd suggest spending the time on that vs using a rub rail in the opposite than intended orientation.

You could wrap the glass, but youll want to have that seam flush before you do.

I guess I misstated that a bit. The seam is flush. The glass would handle it just fine without any further work aside from sanding the current finish off the rubrail for adhesion purposes. I just didn’t plan on it being “faired” for final paint because I wasn’t planning on it being exposed to view. Lowering the R-30 would change that. They way I was going to use it was just for “bumper” purposes. I think Cbuf is suggesting that I can use it more as a spray rail.

I think the lip on the rubrail is more for alignment purposes than anything else. I could turn it “right-side-up” just as well and I think the performance would be the same.

That pic is before I glued the deck - the squeeze out filled the small chamfered area

Oh I see. Sounds like you just need to hold off the pondering until you can santity check it in person. It sounds like either way will work.

Been trying to find time to post an update since it's been almost 2 months. Progress has been slow but steady I guess...

Got the deck glassed (4 oz. woven)



Based on Jeff's experience, I made sure to take the opportunity to tab the transom to the deck. Since I forgot to fillet the joint on the first application, I actually tabbed it twice. So I think this seam will end up being as strong as I could want.



Primed the deck - hard to remember now, but I think I put down 2 coats, sanded, and then a third.


I got distracted by this side project - I wanted to create a small seat that would double as a motor well cover. This was a project that I imagined early on but never took the time to really figure out on paper - so in-situ it was. Used some scrap Ipe from a decking project. I'm allergic to varnish (emotionally, not physically) - so with the Ipe, an occasional oiling will do and if if grays - so be it. It's a bit crude, but I'm pretty happy with it. The legs fold when it's in the cover position to avoid conflicts with the various hoses that will be back there. I do have my doubts about the practicality of it - I generally have little patience for fiddling with stuff like this when I'm looking for fish. I expect that it will be in the cover position most of the time - but if I want to sit and putt around one day, I have the option.




Had some gel-magic work to do in the motorwell. Those that live in colder climates will find this humorous, but it did drop to around 50 here for a day or two and the epoxy wasn't setting.. A heating pad to the rescue! Actually, the heating pad didn't work well at all, but an incandescent work light raised the temp in the motorwell cavity by 20 degrees and worked like a charm.





Had my grab rail made by a fabricator in Big Pine. The base plates aren't exactly what I planned for, but it's a good fit.







On to deck paint. Moved her to Big Pine because I needed to be there for a week for other reasons and my paint space is much better there. Started with the cockpit and hatch gutters to keep the paint mixes manageable. For the gutters, I just applied wet on wet on wet. I'm done with sanding gutters.



The deck was done wet on wet on wet (3 coats), sanded with 400 and then the final coat. Based on my experience with the hull, I wanted to achieve full coverage before I started any sanding and 90% of this gets covered by non-silp anyway.









Been getting things in order for rigging and trying to find a window to do the non-slip since that will require 3 or 4 days in sequence without interruption.

She's looking great! I really like the seat/cover idea. One if the things that is absolutely critical with this size boat is making sure things are efficient. That's a novel use of space in my opinion!

Nice work!!! Jeff

Really does look good. Kinda like a great big version of my SK-14, which would be more versatile for me. Grab rail sure looks handy. And I have no doubt I'd be using that nice seat.

Dougster

Agree, that seat is sweet!

Glad you tabbed that transom to the deck. I still have not, so while you learned from my experience, I did not.

Electrical is done and plumbing is done (unexciting pics to come). I'm on to the fuel system, which brings up a question for Cameron and Jeff. I think we all have the same fuel tank from Boyd's. There is no grounding tab. How did you guys go about grounding the tank? I got my tank with an add-on fuel level gauge. Do you think I should use one of those screws? My other thought was to just ground from one of the mounting flanges. What do you guys think?

I stacked a ground from the fuel sender and to the ground bus at my fuse block to one of the mounting feet screws.

My sender came with a cork seal and it's not advisable to ground thru threads, so that's why I didn't tie the grounds together at the sender screws.

I didn't ground mine but I like Cameron's idea of attaching to the mounting tab. My tank has no filler neck, no grounding tab and I have no sending unit, no fuel gage. I don't recall if there are any screws for a sending unit but I'll check. After a bunch of reading, I'm going to run a wire from the tank to the negative battery terminal, not sure how I missed the static issue before.

The sending unit mount is an add on. You'd know if you had it. Big hole, 5 threaded holes.

Well, I'm happy and sad to say that she's done. Aside for some seadek in the cockpit and shortening the trolling motor shaft, she's done. I purchased the materials and picked them up in mid-March last year, so it's been a year. Can't wait to splash her, start dialing her in, and get the storage situated - but I'm going to miss the build process. I had more enjoyment from this build than anything I've ever worked on...

On to some pics to catch up since my last post:

Plumbing - pretty simple. Bilge pump, live well pump and live well drainage:



Fuel tank:



Electrical: My first shot at wire organization was a disaster. I had to pretty much start all over and ended up here. Still not the best, but tidy enough. This hatch houses all of the electrical - battery, switch panel, battery switch, ground terminal, trolling motor circuit breaker and battery charger.







Non-slip: This was the big lift. I used the "Boatworks Today" method with soft sand.

Taping her up:



Laying the soft sand:





Overburden of soft sand removed:



First coat of paint. It really sucks it up. It took 24 oz. of paint, where I typically could have painted this area with 6 oz. So, 4 times the paint.



My biggest concern was the tape removal and whether I would end up with clean edges. I seriously fretted about this but it came out really well I think:







Motor & Rubrail: Got the motor and rub rail installed with some assitance from my wife and a good friend. I really wanted to get the rub rail from BBC, but I just didn't plan well enough dimensionally for what they offer. The Taco Suproflex was the perfect dimension. I went around in circles on that due to cost but my wife convinced me to take the plunge. Honestly, I miss the square chunky aesthetic of the bare rubrail but I'm guessing this will grow on me:







Trolling Motor: Last step was to get the trolling motor installed. This is a 54" shaft - way more shaft than needed. I plan to cut it down after some on-the-water testing:





Still waiting on the seadek I ordered. Nothing fancy - just some sheet material that I'll cut myself. Until that arrives, the focus shifts to the davit rigging for her...

She's a beaut! Heck of a job! That chrome rub rail really pops on the all white boat. I couldn't pull it off as I've been bumping mine pretty good already.

Regarding TM shaft, I suspect you'll end up around 36-42. Mines 42 and the collar is halfway up the shaft when trying to keep the motor as shallow as possible.

Total bar-setter, immaculate work! Jewelry. I suspect that will generate quite a few fs14ls plan sales! Can't wait to get a close look!

Have you run it?

Thanks Guys! Yes, motor took all of 5 seconds to start up.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:48 pm Thanks Guys! Yes, motor took all of 5 seconds to start up.

When I first started my 4 stroke on the water for the first time I held the ignition longer than I needed to because I was used to cranking and cranking and cranking my 2 stroke to get it going. Plus it's so quiet! I love the Yamaha.

Wow!!!! Definitely blows away every FS14 built to date, including mine. I love what you did with the small cockpit and large foredeck. Beautiful workmanship, and it seems you've developed a bad case of the boat builder virus. I've built 4 of Jacques boats and currently finishing my second Conchfish 16 by Chris Morejohn. Can't get enough sanding, just love it.

Thanks Mike. Those are some very kind words. I’ve seen your FS is person and studied every photo that you posted. I even borrowed some of your details. Not sure I agree that mine is on par, but thanks nonetheless.

I’ve definitely got the bug - been eyeing the next build for a few months now. I see what folks on here do with the bigger boats and it’s so impressive. I love the 22 Panga and think that would be a great hull for the Keys, even though you don’t really see them here. But I have a build space issue. Maybe an LM or FS 18 is in my future…or a canoe to tide me over

All this talk about next builds has me looking at what's next...maybe a Conchfish or Lithium by Morejohn.

I'm gonna need more room!

Congrats!! Really well done!!! Jeff

My younger brother just bought a home on Big Pine. Maybe I'll see you on the water later this spring/summer. Awesome job!!!

Beautifully done, Mojo! Crazy build time too!

Two things today - got her registered and weighed. If not for my own stupidity, registration would have been much simpler. I gave them 3 receipts that didn't indicate sales tax - not sure how that happened, but it did. So they broke out the calculators. That on top of the clerk being a trainee and having her first experience with a "homemade vessel" - and - her manager spilling a full cup of coffee on my paperwork. Otherwise, it went as smooth as can be and only ended up costing me an extra $19. I can live with that just to have it behind me.

As far as the weight, the whole rig weighs exactly 1,000 lbs. Yup, Exactly. That perfectly round number certainly doesn't give me confidence that it's correct. The attendant assured me that it was accurate within 20 lbs. The weigh method was boat/trailer only (tow vehicle disconnected). Anyway, if accurate, my math puts the hull + hardware at 495 lbs. So, she's got hips!



Total Weight: 1,000 lbs
- Trailer (Magic Tilt MT14-1250): 230 lbs
- Spare Tire: 20 lbs
- Engine (Yamaha F25LWHC): 140 lbs
- Trolling Motor (12V 55lb Thrust Minn Kota Terrova): 50 lbs
- Battery (Group 24 Lead Acid Deep Cycle): 50 lbs
- Fuel (2.5 gallons): 15 lbs
Hull Weight + Hardware/Equip: 495 lbs.

Beyond that, I have no idea what all the hardware/stuff cumulatively weighs, bit certainly no more than 50 lbs, right?

I think with the extended decking she was bound to be on the hefty side. That 25 will push her no problem though!

I think with the extended decking she was bound to be on the hefty side. That 25 will push her no problem though!

No doubt, although I think it's more in the "extended" stringers. The way I boxed out the hatches essentially gave me full depth stringers (from deck to hull) except for in the cockpit area. Plus she's got a lot of foam. I'm not going to get too concerned - or elated - until I see how she performs. I do expect her to be extremely stiff and to float just fine - even if she's full of water

I would not worry about the trailer weight and spare tire weight. Once you get your weight and your fishing gear, cooler and other weights added on your total weight will be close to if not over 1000lbs as you leave the dock. The 25HP should give you a top speed near 30 or slightly over.

Tom

Comedy routine atvthe dmv!

I weighed at 2 different moving companies 1 day apart and the difference was like 400#. So who knows what anything actually weighs. I calced the weight of the bom and it came in well over the spec weight, which I feel may have an error around 30% or so.

I used a nearby CAT Scale. You can download an app and just drive up, connect to the station over cellular, have it run the weight of the entire rig, then go unhook the trailer and drive back through with tow vehicle only. 15 bucks first time and 3 for reweigh. Those scales are guaranteed to be accurate because DOT fines are no joke!

I've built 4 of Jacques boats and currently finishing my second Conchfish 16 by Chris Morejohn.

Seaslug - if you’re out there - would love to hear more about your current build or just see some progress pics. Especially interested in how the process & materials differ.

Well - I’m finally planning to splash this weekend. After weeks of +25 knot wind conditions and various “social” commitments, this weekend is looking like the one. Excited and nervous. I’ve got a motor to break in and some davit rigging to dial in - so mostly it will be about that…and not sinking

Which brings to mind - I haven’t gotten insurance yet. I’ve been with State Farm for car and boat insurance for well over 30 years, so that will be my first stop. Any advice? I remember reading a nightmarish thread about folks having difficulty securing insurance and Fallguy’s advice to Remember these words:

Custom built. Composite. Will pass insurance survey.

And to forget these words:

Homemade. Wood. No inspection.

Any other sage advice out there?

Yes, make sure you have your states inspection and all your tags, HIN, title and registration, if needed.

Tom

I have insurance

I hate insurance

Long but great day today! Got her splashed. Got the motor broken in - and almost broken. More on that later. And got the davit dialed in one more step. No great photos, but my wife took some decent videos. Will try to get those posted soon along with some of the final rigging details. Towards the end of this build, I was questioning a few things about this boat, but after today, I found that it's exactly what I wanted and I couldn't be happier.

I splashed her fully loaded because I didn't want to fool myself about anything. Full tank of gas. Cast net. All the safety gear. Small cooler. The only things I didn't bring were a tackle bag and fishing rods. My first observation is that the ride of this hull - given it's size - is really nice. Kudos to Jaques for the design. I've had a couple of small skiffs in the past and was prepared for a wet beating. Not the case. The day started out flat but ended with a moderate chop. I was really impressed with how the hull performed in the choppier conditions and taking on other boat wakes. I know that's partly due to the standing position/extended tiller/grab rail, but regardless, this is a cool little hull. Also, I had it in my head that this was a one man boat, especially given the way I reduced the cockpit and extended the front casting deck. Unless you upsized it like Jeff and Cameron did. I've been scratching my head on how I might make it comfortable for my wife or daughter on occasion. And I didn't think there would be room for them to stand along with me. Not the case. They both went out with me and enjoyed it quite a bit. As long as it's not a 10-mile run to the spot - no reason I can't bring someone along.

All systems worked, nothing leaked, and the paint didn't come pealing off . Motor performed great. WOT was 29 MPH (TomW1 nailed it) and she cruises really nice at 20. WOT with a passenger was 27 MPH.

There is one issue that I'd love to get some advice on. 25 MPH and up and I have some porpoising. I tried trimming the motor (manual trim) down (moving the trim pin one position). That fixed the porpoising, but produced a loss of top end speed by 2 MPH and, more importantly, made the motor want to steer right. So much so, that it would be uncomfortable to drive after running a mile or so. That won't work and I'm curious what that's about. I think that is telling me something important but I don't know what it is. Just to check, I also trimmed it up. As expected that produced more porpoising. So trimming isn't going to fix the issue. I do have a jack plate (fixed/manual) and my initial setup has the cavitation plate about one inch above the bottom of the hull with the lower unit about 12" behind the transom. I think that's a "rule-of-thumb" setting. I've boiled the potential fix down to the following options:

• I have about 3/4" of lift left in the jack plate. I think I'll try maxing that out first. Unless - maybe it's too high already?

• Put some weight in the bow, but who wants to add weight to their boat?

• Trim tabs. Really don't want to put more holes in my transom, but if that's what it takes...

• Hydrofoil? Do they really work? I definitely don't want to put holes in my cav plate, so this would be a last resort.

• Could a different prop make any difference? I don't think so but I've never quite understood the "science" of props

Curious what troubleshooting suggestions you guys might have.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 10:59 pm
There is one issue that I'd love to get some advice on. 25 MPH and up and I have some porpoising. I tried trimming the motor (manual trim) down (moving the trim pin one position). That fixed the porpoising, but produced a loss of top end speed by 2 MPH and, more importantly, made the motor want to steer right. So much so, that it would be uncomfortable to drive after running a mile or so. That won't work and I'm curious what that's about.

Curious what troubleshooting suggestions you guys might have.

If you end up where the right turning tendency is the only problem you can adjust the small trim tab on the bottom of your ventilation plate right behind the prop to tune that out. Once you have the rest of your setup you can just adjust that a bit at a time until the steering is neutral at your cruising speed.

Joe - thanks! That’s brilliantly obvious. I’m not sure why I didn’t think of it. I’ve changed those anodes a few times on other boats and know there set slightly askew to overcome the prop torque - but it never occurred to me that I could actually adjust it. I think that should work.

Now I’m curious if that adjustment will still result in a loss of top end speed. We’ll see.

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 10:59 pm

• Put some weight in the bow, but who wants to add weight to their boat?

Curious what troubleshooting suggestions you guys might have.

You could try putting your pinfish trap in the bow.

Oh wait, that won't help because it doesn't weigh anything, because it's imaginary. never mind.

Congrats again on the splash. Man, I'd be happy with a little porposing at 29 if it meant I could actually go 29!

What's still to tell on the "Almost broken" motor?

Here you go Jeff. Unrelated to my porposing issue - because this happened later in the day, I did have a little run-in with a submerged "something" at WOT in about 16" of water. I know the flat fairly well - so I wasn't just running willy nilly - but I was testing her skills. I thought she came out of it unscathed, but apparently not...



Thought I'd check in with TomW1 (if interested) before I just replace with the same:

You could try putting your pinfish trap in the bow

Stone Crab trap might work

Trent sorry about your little boo-boo. I would make the trim tab adjustment first and see where you are at. For a couple of MPH, I don't know if I would spend the price $130-$150 on trim tabs. Adjust your motor up and down for max speed, if it bothers you still, go with the trim tabs.

Tom

Mojosmantra wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 7:44 am Joe - thanks! That’s brilliantly obvious. I’m not sure why I didn’t think of it. I’ve changed those anodes a few times on other boats and know there set slightly askew to overcome the prop torque - but it never occurred to me that I could actually adjust it. I think that should work.

Now I’m curious if that adjustment will still result in a loss of top end speed. We’ll see.

On my FS17 I gained a tiny bit of speed at WOT once I had that adjusted correctly because until then the motor was never actually pointed quite straight. With hydraulic steering I couldn't feel it pulling but if you looked at the wake you could see it was going off to one side with the boat going straight, so was not efficient.

Sorry I've been missing as of late. I haven't been getting post notification emails, so I'm playing catchup a bit.

Great news on the splash and getting insurance! I only tried with Progressive and all they would offer was liability. No coverage on the hull. I did ask someone selling a homebuilt boat on Facebook back while I was building mine if he had insurance and his response kinda stuck with me. He told me if I built it I can repair anything that would occur. He didn't see much of a point in insurance. I can see it both ways. I did get the liability to cover injuries at least. I think it was $100/year. It does come with Seatow that was reassuring.

Regarding the porpoising, I had the same issue. Get the height optimized and see what happens with it. At 29mph I think you're pretty optimized, but you can tweak it some and see. My cav plate is about an inch above the bottom of the transom like yours as well. I put an Aluminum 4blade prop with the same pitch as factory and also added the Bennet Self Leveling (spring loaded) Tabs at the same time. Some combination of that solved my porpoising problem. I've been meaning to go out with the tabs retracted and see if just the prop did it or the tabs. I have a feeling the tabs contributed the most. If you have the ability to shift weight, definitely try that first though. I already had a battery and gear forward.

Also think about how often you'll be pushing the top end as well. I know where I'm fishing I won't be pushing it unless I know I'm in wide open water with plenty of depth to spare. Maybe it's not worth the extra stuff.

Interesting about the insurance. I only wanted to
insure the motor (and the liability of course). And then, my only concern would be theft. State Farm wouldn’t do it. So I ended up insuring the build cost. I agree with your friend. I can’t ever imagine making a claim on the hull.