Depends on the boat... if you're using it in a context where wet or dry isn't a major concern you could leave the spray rails off; you could also add in reverse chines and knock down the spray on most V-hulls. Presumably that's why JMG refers to them as optional on a bunch of designs.
As far as rub rails, you could achieve the same stiffening effect with an inwale or heavy sheer clamp. You give up the impact cushion but again, builder's choice.
You build your own boat, pretty much everything is optional. Lots of ways to add or omit components without negatively impacting the structural integrity.
panga 22
-
- Very Active Poster
- Posts: 511
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:58 pm
- Location: Western Canada
- Location: Ladysmith, BC
Re: panga 22
I will agree with you up to a point. A lot of builders do not have the knowledge to make the changes you have indicated. There are very few plans that JM suggests leaving the spray rails off. You will have to show me them to make me believe that, optional yes, leaving them off, no. And even optional is few and far between. In my now 14 years on here only 2 members have put reverse chines on there boats. One in Australia and one here. It takes work and the proper fiber glassing and gradient from the transom to the bow. It takes work.cracked_ribs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:44 pm Depends on the boat... if you're using it in a context where wet or dry isn't a major concern you could leave the spray rails off; you could also add in reverse chines and knock down the spray on most V-hulls. Presumably that's why JMG refers to them as optional on a bunch of designs.
As far as rub rails, you could achieve the same stiffening effect with an inwale or heavy sheer clamp. You give up the impact cushion but again, builder's choice.
You build your own boat, pretty much everything is optional. Lots of ways to add or omit components without negatively impacting the structural integrity.
Again as far as rub rails vs. inwales and sheer clamps, a new builder would not even know what the latter two were, he is just buying his first set of plans to build his first boat. The rub rails have to be there. If they ask the question about replacing them with something else, then they can be answered. They cannot automatically replace the rub rails. Depending on the boat they may be able to replace them with something else. It is up to the designer.
You know what they are, Jacques and I sure know what they are, but there are probably less than 25% of the other members that know what they are. Though they may, since they have been on here for a while.
Just remember you designed and built your own boat, you should not give advice to builders using Jacques plans, unless you have the plans to that boat.
Tom
Last edited by TomW1 on Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978
-
- Very Active Poster
- Posts: 511
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:58 pm
- Location: Western Canada
- Location: Ladysmith, BC
Re: panga 22
Fair enough, it is definitely a commitment of time, money, and greying or vanishing hair a lot of the time as one works to solve the problems he has created for himself by abandoning the good graces of the designer.
-
- * Bateau Builder *
- Posts: 1662
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:13 pm
- Location: New Zealand
Re: panga 22
On my plans the sprayrail is shown as highly recommended. I chose to put one in as a drier boat is a good thing. But I assume that means the boat won't fall apart without it. Builders have left them out or included them depending on what they want to accomplish. I have also seen different ways of achieving the sprayrail. I filled my chine using a dam, then faired, glassed and glued the plastic to the outside of it. Others have simply fastened a suitable hardwood strip of the recommended dimensions. On the plans for the PG20 it is shown as a 'suggested spray rail 25mm wide,' not required, but probably a good idea.
On the other hand the skeg on my C17 is shown as required. I assumed that meant some structural use, so I made sure to include it, made it beefy and taped it in.
Having said that I agree wholeheartedly that following the designers recommendations is a good idea.
By rubrail I didn't mean the layers of plywood to strengthen the sheer which is required, but the plastic or rubber bumper sometimes fastened to it which is not required, but in my view a very good idea.
I should have been more clear but I was in a hurry to go fishing.
On the other hand the skeg on my C17 is shown as required. I assumed that meant some structural use, so I made sure to include it, made it beefy and taped it in.
Having said that I agree wholeheartedly that following the designers recommendations is a good idea.
By rubrail I didn't mean the layers of plywood to strengthen the sheer which is required, but the plastic or rubber bumper sometimes fastened to it which is not required, but in my view a very good idea.
I should have been more clear but I was in a hurry to go fishing.
-
- * Bateau Builder *
- Posts: 1662
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:13 pm
- Location: New Zealand
Re: panga 22
Sideslippa, Baraman?, myself and I'm not sure who else. I found it a bit of work but less hassle for me than finding a strip of hardwood the correct dimensions, glassing it and filling the edge. That was me though.
Last edited by OneWayTraffic on Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:01 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: panga 22
Okay, we are on the same wave length.OneWayTraffic wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:40 am On my plans the sprayrail is shown as highly recommended. I chose to put one in as a drier boat is a good thing. But I assume that means the boat won't fall apart without it. Builders have left them out or included them depending on what they want to accomplish. I have also seen different ways of achieving the sprayrail. I filled my chine using a dam, then faired, glassed and glued the plastic to the outside of it. Others have simply fastened a suitable hardwood strip of the recommended dimensions. On the plans for the PG20 it is shown as a 'suggested spray rail 25mm wide,' not required, but probably a good idea.
On the other hand the skeg on my C17 is shown as required. I assumed that meant some structural use, so I made sure to include it, made it beefy and taped it in.
Having said that I agree wholeheartedly that following the designers recommendations is a good idea.
By rubrail I didn't mean the layers of plywood to strengthen the sheer which is required, but the plastic or rubber bumper sometimes fastened to it which is not required, but in my view a very good idea.
I should have been more clear but I was in a hurry to go fishing.
Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978
Re: panga 22
Ok. This is not a high-tech experiment but I think it goes a long way to proving that, in this particular case at least, you are 100%, absolutely and without-any-doubt.........correct!cape_fisherman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:51 pm
Again, the stuff is extremely hygroscopic...much more than glass....
I put a few tablespoons of water in the cup.
The whole cloth is wicked and wet. I definitely was not expecting that!
This will conclude my use/advisement of kevlar for abrasion resistance.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.
Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie
Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie
Re: panga 22
No there are places Kevlar can be used but generally it is not worth the effort.VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:59 pmOk. This is not a high-tech experiment but I think it goes a long way to proving that, in this particular case at least, you are 100%, absolutely and without-any-doubt.........correct!cape_fisherman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:51 pm
Again, the stuff is extremely hygroscopic...much more than glass....
I put a few tablespoons of water in the cup.
The whole cloth is wicked and wet. I definitely was not expecting that!
This will conclude my use/advisement of kevlar for abrasion resistance.
20210426_155012.jpg
Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978
Re: panga 22
so I will be ordering the cnc kit to get started, Question , the laminating schedule only shows the glass on the bottom and 6 inches up the topsides, no glass on top sides, I was surprised and wanted to make sure I did not overlook something , the amount of 12 oz glass seems to support that
Re: panga 22
You are reading the lamination schedule correctly. The minimum overlap is 6" above the chine. More is an option and not necessary. You have enough fabric to go much higher over the sides especially towards the bow. Why not use it? You should have enough resin.
Some builders like to cover the whole side, outside, all the way to the sheer. This makes sense if the boat is kept at a dock or frequently docks along a seawall. It will provide extra resistance to abrasion. 6 oz. woven is sufficient for that.
Some builders like to cover the whole side, outside, all the way to the sheer. This makes sense if the boat is kept at a dock or frequently docks along a seawall. It will provide extra resistance to abrasion. 6 oz. woven is sufficient for that.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests