First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

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VT_Jeff
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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by VT_Jeff »

If you download the map ahead of time you SHOULD be able to use GPS/tracks etc without an internet connection, but I'll play with this on my end next time out and see what I get.

On the far side of the island, it APPEARS you are tacking at ~90 degrees, which is amazing! This is assuming/inferring that the wind was from westish, maybe like 250?, let me know if that jives. Also assumes that north is up on the map.

"wife didn't like the waves splashing over the sides." Had a similar experience this weekend, wife AND the dog sternly objecting to spray over the rails.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

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Jaysen
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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by Jaysen »

VT_Jeff wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:13 pm "wife didn't like the waves splashing over the sides." Had a similar experience this weekend, wife AND the dog sternly objecting to spray over the rails.
Correct answers to this are NOT
1. It drier than me tossing you over.
2. Beats swimming.
3. Let me build a bigger boat.
4. Did you not watch the race videos? How do you expect to compete in the Vendee if this is bothering you?

I’m sure there is more but I’m generally unconscious before I can try new ones.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

narfi
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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by narfi »

VT_Jeff wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:13 pm
On the far side of the island, it APPEARS you are tacking at ~90 degrees, which is amazing! This is assuming/inferring that the wind was from westish, maybe like 250?, let me know if that jives. Also assumes that north is up on the map.
Screenshot_20210816-071743_Boating.jpg
We went counter clockwise around the island.

narfi
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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by narfi »

Jaysen wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:37 pm Correct answers to this are NOT

3. Let me build a bigger boat.
That has already been established as an acceptable answer :)
Actually, she would prefer, let me stop building an airplane and build a bigger boat sooner.
Perhaps even more acceptable would be, let's buy a bigger boat now.... (screw finances, logistics, stage of life, etc....) (ok maybe that's me projecting a bit there....)

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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by VT_Jeff »

narfi wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:39 pm
VT_Jeff wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:13 pm
On the far side of the island, it APPEARS you are tacking at ~90 degrees, which is amazing! This is assuming/inferring that the wind was from westish, maybe like 250?, let me know if that jives. Also assumes that north is up on the map.
Screenshot_20210816-071743_Boating.jpg

We went counter clockwise around the island.
Yeah, that all jives! So you must have been close-hauled on the other side of that island, and that's probably where you got the splashing into the boat, beating into the wind/waves in probably 8kts of apparent wind? Pretty impressive, if I'm extrapolating all that correctly.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie

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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by VT_Jeff »

Jaysen wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:37 pm
VT_Jeff wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:13 pm "wife didn't like the waves splashing over the sides." Had a similar experience this weekend, wife AND the dog sternly objecting to spray over the rails.
Correct answers to this are NOT
1. It drier than me tossing you over.
2. Beats swimming.
3. Let me build a bigger boat.
4. Did you not watch the race videos? How do you expect to compete in the Vendee if this is bothering you?

I’m sure there is more but I’m generally unconscious before I can try new ones.
If you can get through that list without bodily harm you're lucky!

We were on the FS14LS in some chop, took a few over the bow and got stuff wet, so now I'm on the hook to add some dry sweatshirt storage under the guest set. Oh well.......
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie

narfi
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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by narfi »

So Landon and I went around the island again..... It was a little windier and a lot rougher.... probably 2-3ft waves white capping 8-10ft apart on the lake.

The boat did well, we felt very stable the entire time, but it was pretty wet, was a bit of intermittent bailing going on while on the main lake :P

It was too much force for the leeboard case though, and we broke it on the second tack on the other side of the island, we pulled up the board and going upwind was a lot more work.....

For the most part we rode the waves up and down with the bows cutting through them, but it wasn't uncommon to get in a resonance with them either and rock up one and down the next till we got out of resonance again and went back to going through. (is this what they call hobby horsing?)

It seemed harder to tack with the bigger waves, I think we had more trouble maintaining momentum, so had to paddle quite a bit around each turn.

All in all, lots of fun and Landon had a huge grin the entire ride. He is enjoying it much more than the power boat, which seems counterintuitive to both me and my wife.
Screenshot_20210820-065003_Boating.jpg
Screenshot_20210820-065211_Boating.jpg
20210819_182458.jpg
20210819_182508.jpg
You can compare those tacking angles to the other day when the wind was calmer, the waves were gentler, and we had the leeboard functioning, it all adds up to a pretty big difference.....(ignoring the second half where the GPS flaked out)
Screenshot_20210816-071743_Boating.jpg

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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by Jaysen »

If you are having less tack angle (pointing) in stronger wind, even with larger waves, it is most likely due to LOE on the sail being "wrong" location. Normally you point BETTER in higher winds. The cracked trunk would suggest that you were overpowered a bit. I'm surprised that the trunk broke.

Was the steering super stiff or did you feel a pulling tiller?

Consider a splash cover like on a kayak. Tarp with a couple of torso holes in it. That would help with the water a bit. not sure how big to make it to allow enough freedom of movement for sailing.

That pointing bothers me.

Here is what 10minuts of me thinking about how to explain why some of us like sailing over powerboating ended. Maybe it Landon feels this way too.

There is something magical about moving around on the wind. It's also a very "active" thing. You are forced to physically move to adjust for waves, wind (heel) and to adjust the sails. Then you have the mental side of thinking ahead to what changes next, reading the water surface for gusts or depth changes. Everyone on board does this, not jsut the captain. Sailing is a glorious dance between the sailor, the boat, the sea, and the wind. It is a 4 part harmony for all 5 senses, not just the ears. It's not something everyone understands. I'm just glad he has a family that is letting him experience it. Not all children are as lucky.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

narfi
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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by narfi »

Jaysen wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:52 am If you are having less tack angle (pointing) in stronger wind, even with larger waves.........

Was the steering super stiff or did you feel a pulling tiller?


That pointing bothers me.

The steering is super smooth now, it does want to turn into the wind a little which I knew would be the case with the board all the way down/forward, the plan is/was to find the right angle for it to be in balance with the sail, but have just had it all the way down for these first goes at it.

I think the biggest issue with the pointing was that I pulled the board up when the case broke, the waves interrupting momentum being secondary...... (those were my thoughts anyway)
Jaysen wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:52 am
Consider a splash cover like on a kayak. Tarp with a couple of torso holes in it. That would help with the water a bit. not sure how big to make it to allow enough freedom of movement for sailing.
Good idea, I will need to figure out a clean way of doing that, I was pretty cold by the time we got home :)

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Re: First sail of my life - HC14 converted trimaran - Aug 10 2021

Post by Jaysen »

narfi wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:49 pm it does want to turn into the wind a little which I knew would be the case with the board all the way down/forward, the plan is/was to find the right angle for it to be in balance with the sail, but have just had it all the way down for these first goes at it.

I think the biggest issue with the pointing was that I pulled the board up when the case broke, the waves interrupting momentum being secondary...... (those were my thoughts anyway)
That turn into the wind it "weather helm". If the turn is out downwind it is "lee helm". Weather helm is caused by the sail Center Of Effort (where the sail pushes) being too far forward of the Center Of Resistance of the centerboard/daggerboard/leeboard/keel. the CoE on the sail is measured by taking a line that evenly bisects a sail edge to the opposing corner. If you are planning to run a jib, you calculate the center of effort, for each sail, then measure the distance between them The combined COE is halfway between the STRAIGHT LINE connecting the COE. The COR should be at the same location as the COE, just below the boat. Calculating COR is a lot more complicated though as it has to account for weights and hull resistance for multihulls.

All that to say
1. with a jib on you should see the weather helm reduced.
2. letting out a bit of sheet actually moves the LOE forward while spilling some air reducing weather helm.

Rarely do you need a board all the way down. Typically 50% is enough. Lil Bit only needs her's more than 1/4 down if the wind is 15 and it's dead on the beam. Even straight in she seems to prefer only a little bit of DB. Remember that each of your hulls is providing some resistance as well. The big things to look for to determine "MORE BOARD"
1. Are you sliding to lee? if yes add a bit
2. If you add a bit do you get a few more points to windward? if yes then add a bit
3. if you add a bit do you go slower? if no, add a bit

While there is a lot of science to sailing, it's most fun when you approach it like art. You try something and see how it works. If you didn't die then it wasn't the worst possible outcome. If you went faster or had better control, you've added to your bag of useful knowledge. If you went slower or the boat exploded (metaphorically) then you have even more info in your bag of useful knowledge (you'd be surprised how many times you need to apply the breaks without changing heading... much harder with no throttle).

I think you can get a few more points out of her if she isn't sliding. To improve tack when you are pointing high, bear off a few degrees to pick up speed then go super hard on the helm to push the nose over hard. You may not need that with a jib though.

You did plan a jib, right?
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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