Any Trailer experts out there?

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Fuzz
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Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by Fuzz »

I have a tandem axel trailer with 3500 pound ratings each axel.Pretty sure the boat and trailer weigh 6000 pounds. I keep knocking the wheel bearings out of the rear axel and can not understand what is happening. I pull the boat 50-60 mph. Our roads are just a tad rough. The only one who pulls over as rough of road is probably Lee. I think the tires are 15 inch I need to look and make sure.

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BarraMan
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by BarraMan »

Fuzz wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:03 am I have a tandem axel trailer with 3500 pound ratings each axle.Pretty sure the boat and trailer weigh 6000 pounds. I keep knocking the wheel bearings out of the rear axel and can not understand what is happening. I pull the boat 50-60 mph. Our roads are just a tad rough. The only one who pulls over as rough of road is probably Lee. I think the tires are 15 inch I need to look and make sure.
1) Define "trailer expert" - I'm no expert but I have some experience with boat trailers and rough roads.
2) What do you mean by "knocking the bearings out"? You're wearing out bearings on the rear axle?
3) What kind of suspension does your trailer have: (a) independent rubber torsion bar suspension, (2) rigid leaf spring suspension, (3) roller rocker 8-leaf suspension, or (4) other?

OK! The trailer my big boat is on a roller rocker leaf spring suspension, which is truely load sharing, and running 14" wheels.
The trailer is rated at 3200 kg (call it 7000 lbs) and the axle group is rated at 3200 kg (7000 lbs = 3500 lbs each axle).
My boat, with full fuel and loaded for fishing weighs 1900 kg (4200 lbs) and the trailer weighs 600 kg (1300 lbs) = all up weight on the road of 2500 kg (5500 lbs).
I have Bearing Buddies on my axles and run high quality Japanese brand bearings - not cheap Chinese crap!
I tow at 100 - 110 kph = 60 - 70 mph on good roads and to the road conditions on rough roads, and as you know I tow on some pretty ordinary roads!
I check and grease the bearings regularly.
I tow the boat about 10,000 km (6,000 miles) per year including round trips of 4,000 km (2,500 miles).

If you had posted this last year I would have said that I have had no issues with bearings but I can no longer say that! Earlier this year I almost lost a wheel because of a failed bearing that would have done 8,000 miles over 2 years since new. I replaced all the bearings - those on the other three wheels looked good as new! Just one of those things?

My boat started out on a Saltwater Trailer with independent rubber torsion bar suspension but on trip to the Northern Territory destroyed that suspension - although within specs it just wasn't up to the job. That type of suspension, while independent, is not completely load sharing. Regulations here is Oz say that for that type of suspension, "The load carrying capacity of each axle in the group and the wheels and tyres fitted to it must be at least 120% of the load on that axle with the trailer at its ATM".. As sold to me, that trailer did not meet that spec!

So! If you are going through bearings on the rear axle then perhaps it is carrying more load than the front axle for some reason.

fallguy1000
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by fallguy1000 »

Bearing buddies?

Tongue weight too low? That would mean too much load on rear axle. If you can pick it up; it is probably too low.

On a rougher road, I'd be tempted to push them on a tiny bit tighter, but make sure they match the front. Too tight will kill a bearing in 200 miles. (Sorry if I patronize a bush guy)

I am assuming you are changing the race and not shortcutting, cuz leaving the race in won't fly.

The only other thing that I am wondering about is eluded to by the Aussie. If the load is being unevenly applied to the rear by the springs somehow..take a picture and we can see what we can see. He also mentioned the bearing quality, avoid Masterpro; they suck.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

Larry B
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by Larry B »

OK,
First I'm not a trailer expert,
But I've towed lots of different size trailers including boat trailers most of my life.
But I'll stick to boat trailers here.
Over the years I've had several problems with bearings, I've never lost one while towing, (came close a few times) but it's always one thing I check (always)
Now this is what I have found and now use, in my opinion only this is the best thing since sliced bread.
The spindle on a trailer where the seal rides is never perfect and can wear out a seal very fast.
These have a stainless steel polished surface that the seal rides on making it near perfect for the seal to ride on.
As you will see if you click the link, and no I'm not getting paid for this, it's only my opinion.
Since running these, I've had no water intrusion, no grease loss, nice worry free towing.
Bearing buddies work to a certain degree, but can also give you a false feeling of security.
So take a look and then judge for yourself.
If you have any questions just ask, I've been running these for over 3 years now.
Larry B
https://www.airtighthubs.com/categories/view/2
Completed: FL14, OD18

Fuzz
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by Fuzz »

First thank you Lee, Dan and Larry for the replies. I know it is tough to understand a problem from distance.
Image
The trailer is a Calkins tandem axel. I have not checked the tongue weight but I am thinking around 500 pounds. Trailer has typical leaf springs. 14 inch tires.
When I say I am losing bearings I mean they are totally gone. Two years ago I had a wheel come off and end up in the buck brush never to be seen again. This last time the wheel some how stayed on but there was nothing but the races left of both bearings. This has happened on both sides of the rear axel.
I am not sure how to check the weight on each axel but there is enough tongue weight to make me think it must be some what even :doh:

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BarraMan
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by BarraMan »

OK, thanks for the pic!
That is not a fully load load sharing suspension.
If you're wrecking bearings on the rear axle but not the front axle - suggests to me that the rear axle may be carrying more load than the front.
Is the trailer level when connected to your tow vehicle?
The weight on the tow ball should be about 10% of the overall weight of the boat/trailer.

I'm assuming that you are not using cheap crappy Chinese bearings, that they are fitted correctly and that you check them occasionally for grease and absence of water ingress!
It may be worthwhile to jack each wheel up occasionally and check for play and noise in the bearing. My marine dealer mate tells me that bearings usually become noisy before failing completely.

As indicated above, I've destroyed one bearing in about 24,000 miles of towing my boat.

Just for interest, here's what my roller rocker load-sharing suspension looks like:

Image

Do I tow on rough roads? You bet I do! The shiny new spring replaces one that broke a leaf on my last trip - fortunately it was an auxilliary leaf. I carry a spare spring and the gear required to do a roadside spring swap.

This is what they call a highway (ie "Tableland Hwy") in the Northern Territory! :help:

Image

Cheers
Lee
Last edited by BarraMan on Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Fuzz
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by Fuzz »

Thanks Lee.
I will go see the trailer people tomorrow to get some new parts. After I get it back together I will get a tongue weight and update here. I need to get things fixed enough to limp it through the season. Momma is NOT happy having HER boat out of commission.

fallguy1000
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by fallguy1000 »

Another approach could be to shitecan the back axle and go beefier. It sounds a bit scary to do, but I'd be nervous an axle problem is adding to the drama.

If you drive on asphalt, make sure the tire wear is perfect. Nothing inside or out and nothing like high and low spots. If you come off a dry dirt road, drive like 2-3 miles and go look and see if the dirt is evenly off..

500 pounds should be pretty decent, 600 on 6000 is better and adds load to the front axle though...it is really easy for bosephus (me) to make it just light enough he can budge it, but that is a boo boo...350 pound deadlift gonna hurt your rear axle here..I recall reading 12% somewhere..Lee says 10% and that seems good. Does that mean of total weight? I think so...

Anyhow, get some fish!
My boat build is here -------->

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Fuzz
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by Fuzz »

Well I looked and made sure the trailer was about level when hooked up to the truck. I got a tongue weight of 520 pounds so that is maybe a little light but not much. I can move the winch stand a few inches forward but that is not going to be a major change. So I might look into upgrading both axels to 5000-7000 ones.

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Any Trailer experts out there?

Post by OrangeQuest »

Fuzz wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:43 am Well I looked and made sure the trailer was about level when hooked up to the truck. I got a tongue weight of 520 pounds so that is maybe a little light but not much. I can move the winch stand a few inches forward but that is not going to be a major change. So I might look into upgrading both axels to 5000-7000 ones.
Any way of changing the suspension so the axles balance out the load better? Seems would be a lot cheaper if possible.
Oh, moving the winch stand even a few inches moves the balance point those few inches also. But it would better if the axles balanced the load on them better.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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