New EPA gasoline fuel systems.

[MDFeen]

I am currently building the C-19 in Maryland. I was contacting a fuel tank company for quotes and information and they told me all new boats including home built boats built after 2013 have to have this new EPA fuel system requirements with a carbon canister and no spit back deck fill. Has anybody heard of this and is anyone installing this system on their home made boat?

Thanks
Steve Feeney

[TomW1]

That is correct if you go back a few years ago 2013, CL and I posted the new Regs on here. The carbon canistor needed is sold on the store here or you can buy them from your tank builder. As far as any one on here following the rules, I don't know. https://www.boatbuildercentral.com/prod ... -canister/ They don't have the other fittings.

Tom

[fallguy1000]

Well, the abyc is the basic dictator of the rules boat insurers and surveyors go by...my boat surveyor did NOT tell me in either of two pre-survey inspections that it is required.

When you read up on this stuff, Perko states that ABYC directed the EPA and NMMA, but further in the article, it says ABYC is "developing the specification".

This hardly means it is a requirement. My surveyor said the main thing is they don't want the fuel to eacape the vessel on fill, but an overfill is an overfill, so he didn't seem to intent on me having the all in one fill. And I don't. I have a two piece.

Also, if the abyc made diurnal tanks a requirement, buying non-compliant tanks would be all the rage because diurnal tanks aren't in most line-ups.

If. If you are building in California for California, you may be subject to carb or stricter rules.

For safety of the build, I'd plan to use an all in one cap, but I have NOT seen that in any abyc citations either.

[fallguy1000]

I think there is a real practical problem with implementation. If they require say a carbon canister on new vessels, then why not old? And if old, where are they going to place the canister? Canister placement is critical because the carbon cannot get fuel or water into it..

[Fuzz]

All I know is I bought one of the new gas tanks with the EPA approved cap and I absolutely hate that damn thing My tank is either all puffed up from temp change or it is venting all the time. Like they say the most scary saying is "I am here from the government to help"

[fallguy1000]

Not sure it is so much government as the nature of man to think he can do better. See, the government already designed gas cans and some ape in the epa told his underlings to make themselves useful and redesign the damn thing to make it impossible to spill.

I spilled more gas using the epa inspired anti-spill gas can than ever from a simple can. The idea was that the top won't dispense unless the operator moves the valve, but with a full can, the cap almost drops into the keyway of the cover and then you end up foghting to make the key and gas is going everywhere at this point and with all the cursing going on a fella can't even see what he is doing, and then the hole gets missed. On the fourteenth try, it works real well, but by then the place is spicy. What the epa failed to understand is their design can be anti-spill, but is really hard to use.

The best way to spill less is actually to use a really long filler neck, no valve, no contraption that requires a 3rd hand. A gas can is heavy, a 6 gallon can is nearly 40 pounds or is. One handing 40 pounds up and into a fill hole is damned near impossible, but then you gotta find a way to make their f..k.n valve open..so you take a hand off the tank and all hell breaks loose. The cursing is the worst.

But, back to the question at hand. My gut tells me the diurnal is having problems due to the carbon canisters working poorly. It is the same rabbit as that damned valve on my epa approved gas can. An extra something to go wrong. Any excess amount of fuel or water vapor will clog the carbon canister and then you are back to an unvented can which is 6x40 ways worse.

The government intent is good. Think about all those fuel vapors escaping a traditional tank and even fuel loss. But the filters are trouble and I think that is why, afaik, abyc has avoided writing the spec. The alternative of a bursting tank is worse.

[fallguy1000]

Also, the carbon canister is certainly not the only option. There must be a difference between a gasoline molecule and others. So, a very simple molecular level filtration exists that would let the typical components of air pass, but not benzene molecules. I have a molecular filter on my watertights that doesn't allow water in r out, but air passes.

But does anyone know for a fact if there is an abyc rule on these tanks or not?

[jonnymac]

lets not confuse the government role here, they design a standard. companies build a product. the real problem is the consumer. Most people don’t want to pay money for good solutions, so cheap garbage promulgates the market. I have a nice metal gas can that meets all the requirements for a gas can and is easy to use. But it is 3x the cost of the garbage plastic ones.

generally and I think this is a good thing, regulation isn’t retroactive, like when carbon canisters started being required on cars in the ‘80s, it wasn’t retrofitted to every car in America.

the goal of the carbon canister isn’t just to remove benzene its to remove everything that isn’t a natural constituent of air.

I guess the beauty of a homebuild is you get to decide what you want to adhere to either way, depending on your situation and risk.

[MDFeen]

The only information I have other than the fuel tank company giving me this information is this website.
Gerrmarine.com look for a article called: The new era of gasoline fuel installations. ABYC H-24 and H-25.

Steve

[TomW1]

The ABYC rules H24 and H2 apply to gas tanks and venting. There are probably a couple of others that I couldn't find, the ABYC never makes it easy to find everything in one rule. And they are never easy to read.

Moeller has simplified the ABYC regs here and are really a help. https://www.moellermarine.com/regulatio ... implified/ They lst the rules as 2011 whis is when they were written and went into effect in 2013.

Tom