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Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:54 pm
by mineratt
After looking at the plans for the OD15, OB15, FS14, and FS17, I decided on the FS17 and purchased the CNC kit. It arrived just fine and I got started on cutting all the pieces out. This led me to make a few observations that I had not fully considered; it take a bit of space to bot build it and to provide a laydown for all of the pieces, there needs to be a separate place to build the stringers, transom, and assemble the bottom and sides, and you need to keep the cats out of the garage when you are gluing everything together (it helps to both minimize the footprints and keeps the fur out of the glue). I looked at quite a few pictures of the different strong back setups and I now realize that mine may be a little on the high side so I need to put together some work steps to make it easier to access the middle of the hull.

The CNC kit is pretty exact with respect to dimensions and just as it says in the description it goes together pretty easily (but then I am just starting). I did have one small issue and that was the placement of the bow frame (frame A) as it does not ride on top of the 2x6 rails, I had to search for the dimension for its placement at the end of the rails, but in the end not an extreme issue, I just needed to read the plans a little bit closer.

The puzzle joints are easy to put together, I added a strip of cloth on the outside to give them a little more strength when I transferred them from the floor to the frame (I heard that they may come apart, but they are pretty solid) I will sand the tape down or feather it before long, just temporary strength.

As the larger parts all come together I am slowly freeing up space in the garage.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:07 pm
by narfi
Nice to see another being built, post lots of pictures, and you will get lots of helpful feedback from the peanut gallery :)

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:00 pm
by Fuzz
Like Narfi said it is great to see another build thread. As said post lots of pictures and ask if you have any questions. There are NO dumb questions except the ones not asked. Another benefit of posting pictures is one of the guys might spot a boo-boo and save you a ton of work. :D

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:09 pm
by Jaysen
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:00 pm There are NO dumb questions except the ones not asked.
I thought I broke that rule a couple times already…

The CNC kits are the bomb. I used one for Lil Bit (v12). The hard part when working with the kit is remembering that nothing needs to be as exact as those pieces. Gaps are ok. It’s amazing the sins glass, wood flour and fairing compound take care of.

Enjoy the process. We are all here to help (except with sanding … your on your own there).

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:24 pm
by Jeff
Keep building, you are doing well!!!! Jeff

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:47 am
by VT_Jeff
Can't wait to see some epic photos of that boat in Lake Tahoe!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:54 am
by VT_Jeff
Love the rod holders on the garage door, btw, genius!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:59 am
by pee wee
You're off to a good start! I look at the photos of the hull in your garage, and the stuff around it . . . I hope you plan to protect your fishing gear from all the dust you're about to make!! :lol:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:14 am
by Cowbro
Sweet! Someone else in California!

Welcome and i look forward to following along. What are the plans for the final boat? Center console? Dual console?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:21 am
by mineratt
The whole strongback assembly is built rigid and is on rollers. I plan to slide it out into the driveway for the major sanding, and shaping stages once everything is basically put together. And do the glassing, filling, and cutting inside the garage. This is the central valley and it rarely rains, and rarely freezes. The epoxy does take a little longer to cure in the winter, but not much.

The boat will eventually have a center console, 40hp outboard, and go out of Morro Bay.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:35 am
by Cowbro
mineratt wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:21 am
The boat will eventually have a center console, 40hp outboard, and go out of Morro Bay.
Sweet. I dragged my HMD19 down to Morro bay last May, it is a cool little spot with good access.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:38 pm
by mineratt
I finished stitching the panels on the boat. The bow was a bit of a pain and required a lot of stitching and re-stitching to get the four quadrants aligned close enough. They could still be pulled together a little more evenly but for now i will let the wood relax a little and step back for a little perspective.

Things that i have learned so far;
If you are gluing the panels together on a concrete floor, they will take forever to setup if the floor is cold - even if the air temperature is acceptable.
When I put the transom together I put wetted mat or cloth between each panel, when I put a weight on top of them to sandwich them all together they slid all over the place, Two skinny nails (partially imbedded) cured the sliding, then the wrights were no problem. I used that approach with the stringers and they went together the first time.
I miss-cut the 13 degrees on the transom side of the strong back, after aligning everything I placed the transom on the strong back and wedged the base (tope side) until 13 degrees and alignment with the stringers and "knees" was achieved, then locked it down.
I marked the centerline of each frame/form for alignment on the strong back (ran a string down the center just below the frames/forms. Then I aligned the keel line both optically and with a string. The two methods were not identical, i averaged between the two and took measurements of the extensions off the sides of the strong back rails - they were not perfectly even either because of a slight warp in the 2x8s. the warp was a little side to side with the up/down being very straight.

The next step will be the "weld" gluing.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:07 pm
by narfi
There is quite a bit of spring tension at the bow. My spot welds broke when I cut my zip ties and I had to redo it. A short strip of 6in fiberglass tape epoxied down there works really well to resist that spring tension while doing the initial spot welds.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Edit: A picture is worth 1000 words
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Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:47 pm
by mineratt
That makes sense and I think that I will go down that route. So after the initial "weld' is set i will sand and round out the exposed bow portion and add some initial tape there which i will feather out later when I do the overall seam taping. I think that i will extend this to the portion where the bottom of the hull meats the sites at the bow as it is under a lot of stress/flex. I thank you for the pointer, this makes sense and will save a bit of time.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:29 pm
by mineratt
I took the advice to heart and put a little cloth over the bow joints. I want to make sure that this is fully set before I start taking out the stitches, I thought it might need a little more time than the rest of the seams. The epoxy is a little slower in setting up than I had anticipated.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:34 am
by mineratt
I finished the primary "welding" or bead laying on the seams. I used a 200 CC feed syringe to pump the goop into the gaps, it worked pretty well, one fillup for each of the three seams. I let the initial epoxy glue soak into the wood for several hours (it is a little cold in in the garage) before filling in the seams with the goop so it should be pretty good, this afternoon i will go back over it before it completely cures and add any extra to the spots that might not have bridged the gaps fell through.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:28 am
by mineratt
I pulled the ties and sanded the excess off. I trued the sides initially so that I would have something to round off that would not present an elevated bump or edge on the radius. Then i added a little additional filler for all of the holes and gaps.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:15 pm
by mineratt
The joints are all sanded and rounded. The tape edges are all measured and marked. Its ready for the joints to all be taped.
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Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:50 pm
by Cowbro
Looking good! Ready just in time for the weekend.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:02 pm
by mineratt
It has been a while since I applied fiberglass tape or cloth, especially on a vertical surface so I may have slightly over applied the epoxy causing it to drip all over the place. I will just have to sand it all off once it cures to prep for the cloth. It took approximately two hours to apply which is about average from what I have read here.
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Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:23 pm
by mineratt
So the lamination schedule showed two layers on the keel, bow, and transom with only a single layer on the chines. I followed this but I added an additional three foot section along the keel right at the bow to lock the bow sections and chine sections and main keel sections together. That is a lot of glass laminations it will be interesting to see them all together once it all cures.

On a side note, below 60 degree wetting out the cloth is a bit of a pain, above 60 it wets out quickly and efficiently.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:52 pm
by Cowbro
If you have any trouble wetting out due to Temps, make sure you check out cracked_ribs build thread, he did a lot using a hairdryer/heat gun and seemed to have good results. Maybe a space heater under the hull and warming up the epoxy inside the house when you apply the next stage.

Looks good to me, sanding drips seems preferable to an epoxy-starved layup that you have to grind out later.

Phil

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:51 am
by mineratt
The tape is definitely not starved for resin. I am not one to rush things so the large hull layups will follow a bit later after the tape cures. This morning at about 4 I checked the cure progress and the epoxy was still soft. Looking at the tape I could see the weave and so I thought I should add another layer of slightly thickened epoxy on top of the tape to both fill the weave and to give something to sand when it comes to prepping the surface so that I do not grind off the actual glass when sanding.

When I started the taping process it was around 65 outside and the sun was shinning, but as I started to finish it the sun was going down and it was starting to cool back down. The last 5 ft of tape was a little difficult and i had to work the squeegee[attachment and roller into the tape to get it fully wet out, but it did. After that I closed up the garage and turned on the heater to hot box it. Its quite satisfying I think to wet out the glass.
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Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:04 pm
by fallguy1000
Looks like maybe one tape got away on you. Just check to make sure it bonded okay. Just looks white and that is what happens if the epoxy starts to gel. It doesn't flow into the glass tows as well, but should be okay. Take a trowel and make sure you can't get under it is all.

Otherwise looks good. Runs can be prevented by using peelply.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:10 pm
by mineratt
Is that the second picture you are referring to, toward the stern? The is just glare from lights. The bow areas are a little milky because I coated over the weave with semi thickened epoxy (silica) so that i would have something to sand and further shape without disturbing the glass too much.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:33 pm
by fallguy1000
You don't really want to coat over wetted and consolidated tapes. Next time; coat thickened resin before the next layer goes on. It is safer.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:43 am
by mineratt
Here is my question. With the Silvertip epoxy it ways that you have 72 hours to apply the next layer before sanding is required. If i were to just knock the edges of the taps down to smooth out the transitions and then apply the large sections of glass then i have 72 hours to do that. But if I wait for the whole thing to cure and apply the next set of glass over the next weekend then i need to sand everything. If you do not fill in the weave then either you just sand off the very top of the tape layup and leave a lot of "divots", the gaps in the weave, or you have to sand down into the glass to make the whole thing smoothed out which will remove some of the glass.

I have no problem sanding into the glass on the corners of the transom where the two layers of transom tape overlay each other along with the chine taps which effectively gives six layers (I would sacrifice the top layer for a smooth sanded surface to achieve good adhesion, but the chine only has one layer and cutting into that I would think would be problematic. So the question is, will the epoxy bond into all the little divots in the weave of the tape that cannot be etched with sand paper? Or because enough of the tape (top surface of the tape) has been sanded the final layup as a whole will bond adequately enough?

My purpose in "filling the weave" was not to add thickness, but to hopefully provide more sanded surface area for the next layup without grinding on the actual glass strands. If I do not need to do this then perfect, its a bit of time and a bit of resin savings.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:29 am
by Cowbro
mineratt wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:43 am Here is my question. With the Silvertip epoxy it ways that you have 72 hours to apply the next layer before sanding is required. If i were to just knock the edges of the taps down to smooth out the transitions and then apply the large sections of glass then i have 72 hours to do that. But if I wait for the whole thing to cure and apply the next set of glass over the next weekend then i need to sand everything. If you do not fill in the weave then either you just sand off the very top of the tape layup and leave a lot of "divots", the gaps in the weave, or you have to sand down into the glass to make the whole thing smoothed out which will remove some of the glass.

I have no problem sanding into the glass on the corners of the transom where the two layers of transom tape overlay each other along with the chine taps which effectively gives six layers (I would sacrifice the top layer for a smooth sanded surface to achieve good adhesion, but the chine only has one layer and cutting into that I would think would be problematic. So the question is, will the epoxy bond into all the little divots in the weave of the tape that cannot be etched with sand paper? Or because enough of the tape (top surface of the tape) has been sanded the final layup as a whole will bond adequately enough?

My purpose in "filling the weave" was not to add thickness, but to hopefully provide more sanded surface area for the next layup without grinding on the actual glass strands. If I do not need to do this then perfect, its a bit of time and a bit of resin savings.
I don't know what the "right" answer is, but I am pretty sure standard practice on the forum here is to just sand the top of the tape to rough it up, i don't think anyone is taking the tape all the way down to a flat surface before laying cloth. Perhaps something other than sandpaper to help with adhesion in the divots? steel wool or a wire brush? It is a good question though. If you don't get a quick response here, make a new thread and post it up in the technical questions section.

Phil

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:31 pm
by fallguy1000
mineratt wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:43 am Here is my question. With the Silvertip epoxy it ways that you have 72 hours to apply the next layer before sanding is required. If i were to just knock the edges of the taps down to smooth out the transitions and then apply the large sections of glass then i have 72 hours to do that. But if I wait for the whole thing to cure and apply the next set of glass over the next weekend then i need to sand everything. If you do not fill in the weave then either you just sand off the very top of the tape layup and leave a lot of "divots", the gaps in the weave, or you have to sand down into the glass to make the whole thing smoothed out which will remove some of the glass.

I have no problem sanding into the glass on the corners of the transom where the two layers of transom tape overlay each other along with the chine taps which effectively gives six layers (I would sacrifice the top layer for a smooth sanded surface to achieve good adhesion, but the chine only has one layer and cutting into that I would think would be problematic. So the question is, will the epoxy bond into all the little divots in the weave of the tape that cannot be etched with sand paper? Or because enough of the tape (top surface of the tape) has been sanded the final layup as a whole will bond adequately enough?

My purpose in "filling the weave" was not to add thickness, but to hopefully provide more sanded surface area for the next layup without grinding on the actual glass strands. If I do not need to do this then perfect, its a bit of time and a bit of resin savings.
You are going to be fine. Basically, there are limits to how well epoxy bonds to cured epoxy. But everyone has to make secondary bonds in boatbuilding. And so if you have lotsa heat or sun and the epoxy has cured super well; it needs to be sanded for mechanical key for the secondary bond.

You are already seeing and understanding that tape humps at intersections might be trouble. Those can be cut off before tabbing sometimes; to reduce the buildup, but you can also grind them flatter before glassing the hull.

Small bits of shiny surface in a sanded tape are fine. You just don't want to see nickel pr quarter sized areas of unsanded epoxy. I never follow the no sanding rule except for weave filling. There is always some tape hump or stitching line to knock down. And I always sand tabbing. I decided to do so after seeing some primary unsanded bonds fly off easily under the sander.

Use your sander as a gauge. If you see shiny spots; try to hit them with the sander. It should never be an area smaller than a nickel and it should only take you a second to scratch it with 40-60 grit. If you are nervous about blowing through; go to 80 grit and slow down the sander.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:36 pm
by fallguy1000
Also, for any tape humps at the transom bottom; be especially careful to avoid developing hook from tapes and avoid air entraining when you glass the hull. If you have ridges from tabbing; those can be filled with thickened resin an hour before you glass the hull. I like to pass a 4" trowel over them and this increases the bond strength by minimizing any chance for air pockets.

If you have any air pockets on the bottom bigger than a pencil eraser head; grind or inject and repair them. They can cause hydraulic effect and delamination.

After the bottom; you can worry less about an air pocket or two. But the sun can blow them up..so I am still careful on the hull exteriors.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:39 pm
by fallguy1000
Hook would occur if, for example you have a high buildup at the transom and keel intersection. Check for hook by laying a straightedge from 2" beyond the transom on the keel line. Hook is a void under the straightedge. A small amount of hook can be repaired with fairing compound, but you can reduce fairing by keeping the 'hump' to a minimum which is probably 2-3 tapes max..

A large hook in most of these boats robs the boat of speed and fuel economy.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:15 pm
by mineratt
Thank you for the input. Those are good guides and i will keep them in mind as i continue to grind off all the drips on the sides of the boat and lightly touch on the tape. I would have liked to have glassed the entire hull all at once, but one stage at a time will suffice. Accomplish one task, check it, and move on to the next.

I will say that when it comes time to glass the hull i will be doing it in small sections (50 inches at a time) to ensure quality and to adequately work out the bubbles.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:54 pm
by fallguy1000
The hull should be glassed in a continuous fashion to avoid athwart overlaps. The way this is done is simple.

You roll out the glass dry and mark it well for length and for edges and overlaps.

Then you calculate the resin needed for about 40% of the glass. Weigh or measure and calc the glass weight. Example for the fs17, 5 yards of db1200 is 60 ounces of glass. 60 ounces, by weight is 60/16 pounds times 128 fluid ounces/9.01# epoxy. Or 54 ounces of mixed resin. 40% is about 24 ounces for batch one. Batch two is 30 ounces. The first batch is rolled onto the area with a 1/4-3/8" nap paint roller. Wet all areas.

Roll the glass. Do not stretch the glass. Or make it too short. Biax is snaky. Keep marks every 3 feet to make sure the glass lays correctly lengthwise.

Then roll the entire area fast with the consolidation roller. Next, mix the second 30 oz batch and pour it out evenly, but save some. Roll it with the paint roller and make it even. Use the bulldozer method and wet the dry areas using the saved amounts; no attempts at perfection. Use a squeegee and clean oit the roller onto any dry areas. Use the consolidation roller over the entire thing. Dry areas can be wetted with wetter areas by squeegee.

An alternative method is the same, but you roll a little and wet a little at a time; like 3-5 feet; maybe this is what you mean.

Hope I helped.

Cold mixed resins use more resin...winter warning

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:20 am
by mineratt
So now the transom is glassed, all the tape has been cured out and i have sanded everything out pretty well. There are these little "gaps" along the edge of the tape basically the transition for the wood to the tape (the thickness of the tape against the wood). Do these need to be filled and feathered out before I lay down the hull cloth, or are these little transitions ok, will the little bit of resin fill these in behind the cloth and level out? I know that for the best results in most things preparation is key, but how much preparation is required, or how fine of preparation is required at this stage?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:25 am
by Dougster
Resin won't level it out. Needs fairing: feather with sander, fair.

Dougster

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:45 am
by Jaysen
small "counter argument"...

Fairing compound is a bit softer and "could" result in failure of the glass if it is under the glass. I would lay the glass BEFORE fairing or use something like silica or wood flour to fair it. You will still use fairing compound after laying the woven cloth anyway so it's really just a question of under the glass or not.

That said, my answer may be biased. I did use BBC fairing mix under some of my glass. Those are the areas that wore through fastest. the one spot that didn't wear through was the one that I faired under the glass with silica.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:06 am
by mineratt
I will finish the sanding tonight, then score up the little areas and fill with some silica paste to help feather it so i do not grind/sand too much of the tape, should be good to go for final sanding and the hull glassing this weekend.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:10 pm
by Dougster
Oops, I agree w/ Jason. Didn't notice the "before I lay down the hull cloth" in the text :oops: So I'd amend to feather with sander, lay hull glass, then fair.

Dougster

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:10 pm
by TomW1
Do not do either of what Jaysen or Dougster said if you have not laid down the bottom glass. Go ahead and lay down the bottom glass, it will overlap the transom and then you will be laying down the 6' biax tape on all the seams. You should have a fiberglass layout schedule in your plans.

Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:07 pm
by mineratt
TomW1, I put the tape down on the seams all around one layer on the sides, two along the keel, and two on the transom first. Was i supposed to put the bottom glass on first, or the tape first. I guess it is a bit late because i have the seams all taped. I guess i will spend a little more time feathering the edges of the tape.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:10 pm
by Jaysen
Seams are taped first. Then bottom glass. If there are multiple layers of seam/bottom glass it sometimes goes on in alternating layers. You will always have this issue of seam tape building up an edge.

Tom, I think you missed a few points in the discussion. We were providing advice on laying bottom glass post seam glass. Seam glass always goes on first in all the designs I've looked at. I've not seen any FS17 builds done differently.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:49 pm
by Dougster
You're good, taping seams is first. By "feather" I mean just sand the edges of the tape a bit so there's not a little 1/32" or so step down there. Probably isn't necessary but easy to do. Then lay your glass, then time to fill weave and fair.

Dougster

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:44 pm
by OneWayTraffic
Since we're only talking about the edges of the tape, it really won't hurt to hit them with a grinder to feather them if you are careful. Or hit with a wirebrush then lay some slightly thickened epoxy (cabosil is good) along the edges. It will stay put then lay the glass on top where wet. As long as you can avoid large air bubbles it's all good.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:28 pm
by BarraMan
With all due respect, there seems to be some conflicting and in some cases overly complicated advice given here! 8O
I'll stand my glassing up alongside anyones - so here is my 2 cents worth! :D

Image

Image

I basically followed the taping and glassing schedule in the plans - with some additional layers of glass cloth based on Jacques advice because I upscaled 10%. In my case, all of the seams are taped with 3 x overlapping layers of biax tape (12 oz?). Then I glassed the hull inside (2x layers) and out (3x layers) in long runs the full length of the boat where possible and overlapped at the edges by 6".

I feathered the edges of the tape and cloth with an 80 grit sanding disc. I think 'sanding' is preferable to 'grinding'! :D

I can't think of any reason to put filler or fairing compound under structural glass! :doh:

For long glass cloth runs (the boat is 22'), I rolled the cloth out over the area to be glassed, trimmed it as required and drew some guidelines on the boat with a marker pen. Then I rolled the trimmed glass back up onto a length of polypipe. I then wet out the first 3 - 4' of the area to be glassed and rolled the cloth over the wet area leaving about 6" of wet surface ahead of the roll of cloth. Then I wet out the cloth that I had rolled out up to within a couple of inches of the roll of cloth with one or two or as required of my standard epoxy mixes.

Unlike many here, I was mostly working in 80oF or better temperatures. :help: I couldn't afford to mess about so I trained my wife to follow along behind me and chase out any air bubbles. Air bubbles soon became her enemy! :lol:

I sanded any edges between layers of glass and left any fairing until I had finished the structural glassing.

Five years post-splash the boat is as sound as the day I finished it!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:49 pm
by mineratt
That makes sense and your glassing job looks well thought out. For the FS17 the glassing layup is much lighter (apparently, because I have not done it yet). I refer to grinding because I have some wicked runs. The edges I am referring to are in the pictures below. It is a little cool where I am working so the epoxy was put on a little thick. When putting on the bottom glass I will have much more space to squeegee the resin to once I put it on so it should be a little thinner. I have been trying to limit the sanding of the actual taped joints to just the surface lightly and then the edges to flare them out. It is just a little lip and maybe it is all for nothing but I wanted the greatest chance of a first time success because to re-do it looks pretty pricey.

I am thinking about one more piece of glass straight down the center of the hull for a little more abrasion resistance, my family has never seen a sandbar they have never been tempted to slide over.

The pictures are apparently very close up, my camra skills are a little lacking.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:39 am
by Dougster
Ah, that pic helps me see what you mean. I had envisioned just the tape, not the other glass next to it. Still, the feather it then proceed with lamination advice should work. If that little "channel" where the two lips of tape and glass almost meet is hard to feather, I'd just smooth a tiny bit of wood flour thickened epoxy down it and then proceed, wet on wet with laying the glass over it. We're all talking about the same thing really and I think you're wise to avoid the nuisance of bubbles along there if you just ignore it.

Dougster

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:10 am
by mineratt
The hull is now sanded with all transitions smoothed out and the tape edges all feathered. I have gone over every shiny spot with a rigid wire brush to etch ot out. I will put down the bottom glass this weekend if it warms up enough to do do so.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:54 pm
by VT_Jeff
Nice work!

I did all my hull glass wet-on-wet and so did not have the opportunity to feather the tape edges, that's an interesting approach and I'm curios to see how it plays out. Getting those transitions smooth was one of my biggest challenges early on in the build. Because my cloth was covering the edges of the tape, I didn't want to grind them and so had to fill/fair those stepped edges, something I had next to no experience with. Fallguy recommendded a big, metal knife and that saved the day for me. While I generally advocate a wet-on-wet approach, your approach has a lot of merit in the potential to eliminate a lot of fairing.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:53 pm
by mineratt
After glassing the hull by myself I fully understand all of the comments about getting a second person. That it tough to do mixing, rolling, unrolling, squeegeeing, popping, rolling again. It is doable but you have to have everything all layed out and easily accessible. The back end came together pretty well, but the bow went to crap. At least I can sand off the the crappy parts on the bow and glass it over with a single piece of cloth. The discolorations are mostly where either I sanded off the drips from when I applied the tape, the direct overhead light, or it is the thickened epoxy sowing through. There are a few places where the bubbles just would not come out, they are small and there are only a few of them so i can address those after all the fun is over and i clean up the garage.

It is still a little cool over here so I ended up using quite a bit of epoxy even though I used the spreader to squeegee the crap out of the glass.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:47 pm
by Fuzz
Overall that looks pretty good. It is normal for the glass to start looking white when you get multiple layers of glass. I did not see the bubbles you were talking about so they must be pretty small.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:16 pm
by VT_Jeff
Looks fine in the photos. Do you have tape over the wide fabric? Tough to tell in the pics but it appears so.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:57 pm
by fallguy1000
I see what appear to be a few voids here and there; mainly on the chine I believe.

Any voids below the waterline bigger than a half a dime should be either ground and filled or injected.

Above the WL, use a dime for a reference and any voids that big need same.

If you are not certain if something is a void; try a tap test with a screwdriver. The sound under a light tap is easy to distinguish. Black sharpie all the bad areas; avoid red. Then go back and inject or grind. I have a lot of experience and this is really a two person job.

Dan

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:53 am
by mineratt
All joints were taped first, cured, sanded, filled, etc. I used too much epoxy on the taping process. I think I have the process down now for the large pieces using the scrapers/squeegee. Along the chine there are some longer bubbles that will need to be addressed but that will be a small isolated job and much less messy. The larger issues are right at the bow when I got to the bow I cold not get the fabric to mold right and so I has some creases, etc. that rather than mess with when it was a goopy sticky mess I will cut out and address once cured.
The large surfaces, and keel line came out near perfect, it is just a few places on the side of the chine on the first piece that I layed down that had issues. On the first piece I was moving too fast and did not tension/stretch the fabric right with the spreaders. On the second piece it went much smoother.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:38 pm
by mineratt
I started sanding it down and opening up the various bubbles/imperfections. Most of the issues are along the upper edge of the chine. The bottom all looks pretty good with one small spot that I cut out. The bubbles along the chine are long and shinny and do not extend into the tape, just the bottom overlay piece. I am thinking about putting a little epoxy with silica in the area and then re-taping the chine with with 6oz biaxial just to reinforce the chine area because of the length of the bubble areas.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:00 pm
by narfi
mineratt wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:38 pm I am thinking about putting a little epoxy with silica in the area and then re-taping the chine with with 6oz biaxial just to reinforce the chine area because of the length of the bubble areas.
That should work well, I would want to match the weight of the missing cloth though, isn't it 12oz? Maybe do 6 overlapping tapes of 6oz for a smoother transition?

Just my thoughts though, I'm an amateur and tend to overdo it.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:34 pm
by Fuzz
That problem is often caused by going around too sharp of a corner. If you are going to glass over those spots I would take a little time and round over things a bit more first.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:41 pm
by mineratt
I have read that I could just frill in the areas with thickened epoxy and then sand it out. I thought that it might be better to fill the areas, sand it out, then re-cover the entire chine with tape. I thought that using 6 oz tape would be a good compromise in that it would provide additional reinforcement over not just the "re-done" areas but also along the entire length of the chine and it would be thinner than the 12oz. This would place 30 oz of glass over the vast majority of the of the chine and only 18 oz of glass (with thickened epoxy) on those areas where I had issues. Added all together the total combined length of al of the areas along the chine is about 10 inches, the largest stretch is about 2 inches. Am I over thinking this? I realize that this is not a battleship just a lightweight skiff that will only have a 50hp motor and not exceed 30 mph. How much reinforcement is enough in general? I mean if i need to re-tape with 12oz then i will no worries I can certainly do that, but I thought that the 6 oz would just lay a little flatter.
I am very much an amateur at this, having never built one and seen what kind of strength it has in operation, I have no idea.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:11 pm
by Dan_Smullen
I’ve found great satisfaction in drilling 1/8” holes and the. Filling the voids with thickened epoxy injected into the holes using a syringe.

Drill 2 in each bubble. The 2nd allows air to evacuate. More fun then grinding glass, but kind of. PITA to fill the syringes. Might work for you.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:15 am
by fallguy1000
You really want some glass in there or when it warms up in the summer someday; it'll expand more than the surrounding area and make a ridge. Follow Fuzz's advice and grind the area down enough for a 6 oz patch

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:49 pm
by mineratt
I took the areas along the chine that had issues and removed the lifted glass, smoothed them out, put a little thickened epoxy in there then feathered that as well. Nothing extended into the original 12 oz taped area. The issues were only in the 12oz overlayment. I taped the chines again, but with 6 oz tape. so that the short sections I had issues with would still have the original 12oz tape along with this last 6 oz tape. The rest of the chine has the 12 oz tape, 12 oz overlayment, and 6 oz tape. I was amazed at how flat the 6 oz tape lays down. In the picture you can see a white line along the chine - this is the original glued seam sitting behind the layers of glass.
I also took this opportunity to run the 6oz tape to the edge of the sides so that the entire outside outside shell would be covered by some type of cloth both for wear and for ruggedness.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:06 pm
by mineratt
I also took another look at the transom. So far the transom has two layers of 12oz tape on the sides and bottom. Then two layers of 12oz cloth that wrap around the lower 2/3rds of the sides but they do not overlap the bottom. Then one layer of 12oz on the bottom that overlaps 6 to 8 inches onto the transom. I thought that while I had the tape out why not place two stripps of tape on the top portion of the transom; one at the very top, and one right at the level of the outboard cutout that would wrap around onto the sides by a good length. I thought that this might give the top of the transom just a little more strength for a long ride down hwy 99 which is a pot hole filled and gouged highway.
I think that this is a bit overbuilt, but the roads in California are crap and its 2 1/2 hours to the coast.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:36 pm
by Cowbro
mineratt wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:06 pm I think that this is a bit overbuilt, but the roads in California are crap and its 2 1/2 hours to the coast.
I hear ya on that. I don't think you'll regret extra glass right there. I can be on the delta in 30 minutes, but the shortest route is one of the worst roads in norcal. I cringe at every pothole.

Fs17 looks great, keep it up.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:07 pm
by mineratt
I wanted to add a little abrasion resistance to the bottom of the boat. The width of a roll of glass is almost as wide as the distance between the taped chine. This would provide a little more ruggedness to the bottom for when I run over something. And it would correct a few issues I had i the formal overlay. It would also help to correct the little bit of hook that got built up by the transom tape. I started the final overlay three inches(ish) from the transom and ended it at a point where the keel line starts to slope up. My thought is that it would be easier to fair the small gap at the transom, and pretty easy to fair the curved surface at the bow. The little gap between the chine and the edge of the overlay is longitudinal so any roughness would at least be in the direction of travel, and that area is pretty well confined. Maybe this is overkill and maybe on the next one I will not worry about it, this is after all supposed to be a lightweight skiff. But I am a bit hard on equipment sometimes and I do cruise through areas that are unknown to me often.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:56 pm
by Fuzz
Nice looking glass work :wink:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:17 am
by mineratt
I made some thickened epoxy with silica and spread it along the bottom of the boat to "fill in the weave". i did this within 24 hours of the initial epoxy application of the tape and final overlay. This smooths things out quite a bit. i will sand is all down smooth and then start the fairing process. I am looing at install a a spray/chine rail along the chine. After spending all this time trying to make sure everything is good with all the joints and tapes, and overlays i do not want to start drilling holes along the chine to provide the temporary mount while the epoxy cures, then filling them, so i am looking at wrapping the rail from the outside to hold it in place. It is not going to be an elegant apparatus.

But i think that at this point with respect to the basic hull, all of the glass has been put down, all of the basic epoxy has been applied. On to the next stage - fairing.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:41 pm
by Fuzz
Fairing.................the fun part of the build, not :roll:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:58 pm
by mineratt
I decided to give it a good first pass sanding before the rub rail, skeg, and spray rail. It was time to give the garage a good cleaning and dusting. It is not faired out, rather it is all smoothed out and feathered.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:49 pm
by Fuzz
I got good news and not so good news.

Good news is your glass work so far looks very good.

Not so good news is nothing makes a boat bigger than fairing it. There will be times you swear it is 40 feet long :help:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:46 pm
by mineratt
I know what you mean, I have sanded that thing many times between the glass layers. However, once you start and you jest keep your head down and just sand away it does not take too long. 2 hours and you can do a pass from back to front. Back in the day I use to spend quite a few hours on my back under my fathers boat sanding the bottom and prepping for paint, those boats ranged from 32 to 38 ft, that was a chore.

I had developed a bit of a hook in the hull with the multiple layers of tape around the transom which was one of the reasons why I decided to add the one final layer of glass and end it maybe 3 inches short of the transom to maybe raise everything and fill in the area nice and evenly. I have maybe 1mm of light under the strait edge so with just a little fairing I can work that out.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:54 pm
by mineratt
I kept tossing around the idea of a spray rail. But I did not want to be drilling the backing or installation holes below the water line, so I mounted it 5 inches above the chine. I did not extend it all the way to the bow, just 12 feet measured from the transom, well into the bow taper. Right now it is glued and screwed in place with tight filets. Once it cures I will sand it out a little, increase the fillets and glass it over. It is small, only a 1 inch quarter round, but then the boat is pretty small as well. When I put the quarter round on the boat I coated the flat edge that sits on the boat with a good solid coat of epoxy and let it sit until it was just a little tacky, then I installed it with the thickened goop and screws.

This hull reminds me of the Dusky 17. I had a 1978 version that had no spray rail and it rode very wet when the wind came up. I think the spray rail may be just the thing to knock the spray down a little so I do not get to inundated.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:06 am
by Dan_Smullen
Looks great in the sun!

With your quality glass work, fairing won't be too bad. Enjoy!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:51 pm
by Fuzz
I learned with my dory that spray rails do not have to be big to do a good job. I am sure you will be happy you added them.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:13 pm
by TomW1
Looks good, don't be afraid of screw holes just fill them full of a mix of epoxy mixed with wood flour after you remove them.

Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:27 pm
by mineratt
I have read quite a few strings that described both the installation of the rub rails and spray rails. One thing that I have noticed is that there appears to be an issue with the leading end "popping off" after the installation screws are removed. That does not always happen, but it has occurred for some projects. I received a note when I first started this project from a gentleman that said that his bow had opened up once he removed the stitches. Based on that advice I added a little cloth there to ensure I did not have that issue.
So for the spray rail I installed it with the west system six10 thickened epoxy, I bedded the rails really well, roughed both the boat side and rail side, I applied pressure with the temporary screws until the epoxy started to bulge out and the rail was a little snug but far from tight. I had a small bead of epoxy on both sides of the rail - upper and lower, and I had thickened epoxy between the two rail segments. I let it sit like this for one day, then I tried to tape over them to further reinforce the rails. First i tried some 6 inch wide 6ox biax tape but that failed miserably. I let the epoxy on the rails "cure" until it was really sticky then I tried to wrap the rail and it was not happening. It was impossible to get both the upper and lower faces covered with the tape without one side lifting off. I fiddled with an 8 inch length for maybe 10 minutes before deciding on a new plan. I used short lengths of biax tape for both ends of the rails so that it might spread out the load of the "springyness" a little better, there were still little lifted areas that I cut open later and filled with silica thickened epoxy. For the majority of the length of the rails I used 2 inch woven cloth tape on both the top side and bottom side, applied separately with the edges of the tape coming cloth together but not overlapping. For the outside angled edge there would be no tape on it, just multiple coatings of epoxy, then paint in the future. I was able to get the cloth tape to seat along the two inside edges very well and wet out. I think that once the whole thing cures it should be pretty much permanent. Once it cures in a couple of days I will sand the outside edge, feather the joints and tape and then look to install the rub rail.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:47 pm
by mineratt
I went and got some 2 1/2 inch 1/4 inch strips to use for the rub rail, so I went to install them and there is a bit of a contour toward the bow that requires the strips to be be bent in an awkward way, I think that this is why the directions call for the 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch strips. I should have seen that in the directions before i went to the store.

So I started on the keel. I got a 2x2 which measures out a bit smaller. I tapered the leading edge both the sides and the top and I tapered the back edge like that as well. I spread epoxy on the hull and on the bottom edge of the wood, waited an hour, then bedded it in a generous coating of silica thickened epoxy. I waited another 2 hours then made a nice bead with some more thickened epoxy and covered the keel with 12 oz biax. I placed 2 6 oz biax strips on the leading edge as well in addition ot the 12 oz. I do have some bubbles that formed and after spending an hour popping them with a brush I got bored and decided to let it just sit. Tomorrow I will either fill the bubbles or sand them out and recover again.
Most of the white stuff in the pictures is the thickened epoxy behind the biax, but there is a fair amount of bubbles.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:52 am
by pee wee
Your photos don't focus on the bubbles, but don't sweat a few small bubbles on this part- it's not critical like a hull panel would be.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:05 pm
by mineratt
It was interesting, I drilled the small holes and injected the bubbles with epoxy, it setup, and it looks good. Next time I will use a loose thickened mix, I think that will maybe be a little better, there was a little bit of leakage.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:56 pm
by mineratt
The leading edge still had a bubble in it, right in the middle. So I drilled it again and injected it again and it seems to have worked. I scrapped some thickened epoxy along the length of the keel to smooth out the cloth weave
20220322_172741.jpg
The picture shows the two holes just above the air bubble (now you cannot see the bubble) and there are a few globs of epoxy just above that.
When covering the edge of the keel it is interesting how the edges (sides) build up slightly thicker than the center. When I was spreading the thickened epoxy down the top of the keep there was a little pool that shows right down the center.

I started the rub rail again. Initially i purchased some 2 1/2 inch battons and tried to use them. The have enough bend in them, but at the bow then must both bend and twist a little, the wide battons were two rigid in the twisty direction. I then re-read the directions and said to use 1 1/2 inch battons. Now I know why. So I got some of the skinnier battons and they bend and twist so now we are on.
20220322_172830.jpg

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:41 pm
by fallguy1000
mineratt wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:05 pm It was interesting, I drilled the small holes and injected the bubbles with epoxy, it setup, and it looks good. Next time I will use a loose thickened mix, I think that will maybe be a little better, there was a little bit of leakage.
For hull bottom; drill two holes and inject the lower hole; then cover with masking tape to reduce leaks.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:31 pm
by mineratt
The last layer for the rub rail is now on. While the boat is upside down I think I will round the lower edge of the rail and add a fillet so that I can wrap the outside edge with tape to tie the whole structure together.
All of the layers came together pretty well. The original 2 1/2 inch battens just would not form to the hull, but the 1 1/2 inch battens readily form as long as I put the occasional locating pin in to keep the battens from slipping.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:16 pm
by mineratt
The rub rail lamination is now finished and it is all sanded and smoothed over.
20220402_094754.jpg
It turned out very well. But then I thought that it might be nice glass it over. So I attempted to glass it over with 6oz biax tape. I used the premixed fillet goop and proceeded to tape it. I was able to tape the side of the boat and the bottom side of the rub rail bit the rail was not radiused enough to get the tape to roll over. So I left the sides without tape. I figure that the sides of the rub rail will get glassed when I install the side decking and glass over the side intersection/interface. I just thought that it might be easier to glass the rub rail when the boat was upside down. But at least the bottom will be neatly done. I just have a lot of trimming to do now.
20220403_153021.jpg
20220403_153029.jpg
I had installed the spray rail and I wanted to glass over it because it will have a lot water jetting along it when we are running. A constant pressure washer. But I did not want to lose the edge of the quarter round or blunt it off too much. I taped the top side, and bottom side but I could not get the tape to form around the outside edge. I found some 2oz fiberglass cloth that drapes really freely. I cut it into 2 inch stripes and put two layers along the length of the rail, it molded the tight radius corner of the quarter round. As this is for wear protection and not really for anything structural, why not. From what I have read, most spray rails are not glassed.
20220403_153034.jpg
I had not used the fillet goop yet, but it was super easy. I think i will use it to sharpen the chine and transom. When you use it on sanded glass/epoxy do you need to prep the surface with fresh epoxy first, or will it adhere to the sanded glass/epoxy just fine?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:21 pm
by Dan_Smullen
I’ll bring you a glimpse into your future… I glasses my side decks this afternoon and 12oz rolled nicely over a 3/8” radius down the face of the rubrail.

The tape may not have worked as you planned, but having the bottom edge of the rub rail taped neatly will be a good thing.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:47 pm
by mineratt
So I went and built the little dams on the chine to sharpen them up a little bit. I built the dams out of masking tape. I was told that the epoxy does not stick to masking tape, I was wrong. It came out pretty good, I have it roughly shaped and I need to backfill a few voids and flare it out a little bit more, as well as finish sanding off the rest of the masking tape.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:13 pm
by fallguy1000
Ship tape does not stick to epoxy. The clear stuff. Or rather, epoxy does not stick to it.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:06 am
by Fuzz
Shipping/plastic tape good. Masking/paper tape not so much for epoxy work 8O But this just gives you a little more chance to bond with your sander of choice :lol:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:07 pm
by mineratt
I sanded off the tape. It would not scrape off, it had to be sanded off. I used a wide trowel to put the ez-fillet back on and I used the basic form to act as a minimum form. I think that overall it looks much better. Now it needs to be sanded out.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:31 pm
by Fuzz
Looking much better! Do not make those edges razor sharp. You need a little rounded for the paint to stick. One of the others might chime in with how much.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:50 am
by TomW1
Fuzz is correct you need a slight round over of about 1/8 to 3/16" to keep the paint from peeling off.

Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:05 pm
by Dan_Smullen
mineratt wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:07 pm I sanded off the tape. It would not scrape off, it had to be sanded off. I used a wide trowel to put the ez-fillet back on and I used the basic form to act as a minimum form. I think that overall it looks much better. Now it needs to be sanded out.
Oh yeah! Now they're looking right. The dams gave you a good base to fill against and work to. There is no "one step" process in plywood boat building. Knocking off the sharp corner like Fuzz and Tom have mentioned will be a snap.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:57 pm
by mineratt
It looks much better now, I have moved on to the skeg, to sand the base of it where I laid in the cloth over the skeg. I have sanded it, now it will be time to try out the quick fair to further smooth it all out.
I will go back to the chines when I start to fair out the bottom and sides, I think the last item will be to put the final chine roundedness on the edge.
So now I have an almost completed (outside at least) boat upside down in the garage. It looks a lot bigger now for some reason. The thought of fairing it all out seams a bit larger of a chore. So I have been biting it off in smaller pieces; chine, transom, skeg, stern side, bow side, and sides. Like Mr. Cash said, one piece at a time.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:01 pm
by Dan_Smullen
mineratt wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:57 pm Like Mr. Cash said, one piece at a time.
Exactly!

Don’t fret. You’re almost halfway done with the first 1/3 of the project. 😂

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:25 pm
by mineratt
I had some left over fillet putty so I thought i would start the fairing process with that first instead of going into the quick fair first.
20220423_111323.jpg
So now I need to start thinking about painting the bottom. I read about coating the bottom with epoxy and graphite, system three primer and paint, just primer, and primer and bottom paint. I was thinking about primer on the entire outside with paint, but if I leave the boat in the water for a week I have read that the paint may blister and peel which would not be preferable. I do not need ablative bottom paint as the boat will mostly stay on a trailer, but it will be in the water for up to a week at a time. So what type of paint would be used below the water line?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:05 am
by TomW1
Several of the top side paints can be used on the bottom for several days. I will let Jeff tell you the best as time varies by brand.

Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 01, 2022 5:25 pm
by mineratt
I spread the first complete layer of fairing across the entire hull. I put it on a little thick as it was the first layer. I had thought that I had smoothed the hull out real good but I was incorrect. I have a linear air sander so it came out pretty well. But sanding it was very slow going. The next layer will go on real thin and I think that will sand out a little faster.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 9:22 am
by pee wee
Looking good. Those straight line air sanders are nice, and make sanding much easier, but they don't create a fair surface as well as a long board (why do they call them torture boards?) will. At the least, use a long batten to identify the high points so you can focus your work where it's needed. Use a coarse grit like 40 or 60 until you get close to where you want to be. And of course, use good dust protection and ventilation- work outside if that's possible. One nice thing about doing the sanding outside is you can hose off the dust, and the wet hull will give you a preview of what a glossy paint surface will look like.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 6:00 pm
by mineratt
So I have put on three very thin layers of the fillet goo, and now one layer quickfair, I think I will have one more layer of quickfair to go and then the first go at priming the hull. I guess the key to the fairing process is to keep the layers as thin as possible. Also, I completely agree that it is much easier to fair the hull without the rub rail or splash guard. But then with the way I installed the splash guard and rub rail (glassing over both) I would have destroyed the nice faired surface anyway.
20220423_123926.jpg
Just the thickened epoxy surface
20220522_125930.jpg
After multiple layers of the fillet goo providing a nice even surface surface with reasonably smooth transitions between each section of glass
20220522_141110.jpg
After the first thin layer of quickfair

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 10:28 am
by mineratt
So there is a really big difference between the silica thickened epoxy, easy fillet, and quick fair. The thickened epoxy and easy fillet are pretty tough to sand and I used them predominately for the fairing process. But the quick fair, man that stuff is really "quick". I goes on like spreading butter, and it sands really fast. It does make a very fine powdery dust that floats everywhere.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 10:37 am
by fallguy1000
mineratt wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:28 am So there is a really big difference between the silica thickened epoxy, easy fillet, and quick fair. The thickened epoxy and easy fillet are pretty tough to sand and I used them predominately for the fairing process. But the quick fair, man that stuff is really "quick". I goes on like spreading butter, and it sands really fast. It does make a very fine powdery dust that floats everywhere.
Silica thickened epoxy is not used for most fairing. Just something like squaring off a transom and never final fairing passes. It is too hard, but good to use for fillets; moreso if applying tapes immediately so sanding is avoided

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:04 pm
by mineratt
Indeed, I used the silica epoxy paste to build up the various transitions, imperfections, tape edges, etc. That was before I opened up the easy fillet past. The easy fillet past is really pretty good and I used that. But then I noticed that the came with the quick fair and so I started to use that and i have to say its like icing a cake. And it sands so much faster. And it applies so much smoother. It is some amazing stuff.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 6:31 pm
by mineratt
My first comment is that airless sprayers suck when putting on the primer. The sprayer worked well for a bit but when the paint level in the bottle got a little low it would spit the paint instead of spraying it. So I used the old airless sprayer and paint roller to put it on a smooth it down. Not the best. But the first two coats are now on and it looks reasonable. I will need to sand it down a bit then re-apply the primer.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 10:26 pm
by Cowbro
Which airless sprayer were you using? I have the cordless Graco that uses Dewalt batteries and it it flawless for house work, trim, cabinets, etc. I was thinking about using it the next time I paint my boat.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:07 pm
by mineratt
I do not recall the actual make/model. It said that it could spray high build primer, latex, etc. And it did spray, or at least spit. I took a foam roller and rolled the dribbles out, not the best but at least it got paint on the boat. I sanded the crap out of it and the primer was very thick. For two coats i used the entire gallon. I purchased one more gallon thinking that it would repeat the process, but I also purchased a cheap $9 harbor freight spray gun. With the primer thinned down by 10% and the pressure as high as it would allow the cheap spray gun worked surprisingly well. I managed two thin coats with 1/2 gallon of primer. It went on nice and even. There was a little bit of overspray, but with the airless there was some as well. So now I will let it sit for a couple of days, lightly sand it all, then apply the paint to the bottom, then sides, then flip.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:58 am
by fallguy1000
Ought to be a book chronicaling boat builders and their first time painting errors.

Keep on keepin on!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:14 pm
by TomW1
Looks good, make sure you let the primer cure the proper amount of time, some call for up to a week.

Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:29 pm
by mineratt
Painted the bottom with Wetlander paint. It is an epoxy paint that does not absorb water. I read about most of the paints and they all seem to say that the boat should not stay in the water more than 72 hours. The Wetlander stuff is apparently fully waterproof and should be able to standup to longer stays in the water. I did not want an ablative paint.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:40 pm
by Fuzz
Looks very nice :wink:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:21 am
by mineratt
Final outside paint - System 3 Bainbridge white with Olive Speedcoat. I know that I will need to repaint the rub rail area and lip, but this should make for a good base. I had to wait for a cooler day to finish up the paint when its over 100 it flashes over a bit quick.

Next step is the cradle and flip.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:53 am
by cape man
Oh Hell yeah! Nicely done!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:00 am
by Jeff
Well done!!! Jeff

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:46 pm
by mineratt
There was a break in the weather and this morning for an extended bit of time it was going to be less than 90 degrees. So it is time to flip the boat. I suspended it from the roof of the shed to take the weight off the stand. I cut legs of the stand off and replaced the legs with the cradle. I flipped the boat by looping the bolts through the transom outboard mount holes. So now it is flipped, in a cradle, and back sitting in my 120 degree garage waiting for the cooler weather again.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:57 pm
by Fuzz
Congratulations on the flip. That is always a big step to have behind you.
All you have left to do is a tiny bit of finish work :lol:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:24 pm
by narfi
Just a tiny bit left........
Congrats!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:27 pm
by mineratt
Started with the transom. Two layers across the perimeter, single strips across the width of the transom with 12 inch ties onto the sides. I added three feet of chine and keel strips to tie the transom to the bottom a little better. I thought that while everything was all wet it would be good to get the basic tie-ins all set. I can manage about two hours of work in the morning before it gets into the mid 90s. The epoxy sets up real quick so everything has to be done in very small batches. Glassing the interior corners is a lot easier than the outside of the hull.
I wanted to put an initial covering of glass over the inside of the transom even though it should get pretty covered while glassing in the stringers and motor well.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:24 am
by mineratt
Finished up the inside of the keel and chines. 2 layers on keel, and 1 on chines.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:12 pm
by Fuzz
I meant to ask yesterday but what is with the bubbles in the third picture? Out gassing or maybe drips from glassing the outside :doh:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:59 pm
by narfi
Looks like drips from the outside when it was upside down to me... But I could be wrong.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:42 am
by OrangeQuest
I think Narfi is right, just dried drips from glassing while the hull was upside down.

The inside taping job looks great!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:10 am
by mineratt
When I did the outside, I filled all of the joints with silica thickened epoxy which is white. Some of the batches were a tad thinner than other batches and they did drip, especially around the bow joints and through every tie hole. it sands off pretty easily. For the inside I have been using the ez-fillet which is redish brown. When the two sit next to each other under a layer of tape it does look like an issue, but it is not a bubble. The one area where i did form some bubbles is with a piece I wrapped around the bottom of the clomping board onto the lower transom. I will have to probably grind that out and maybe start over with it, or just carry on and glass it in when i am doing the stringers as it may give a little more support.
Oh, the dripps on the top edge are just from epoxy squeezing out when laminated the rub rails, and then glassed over them, I will be sanding those off directly, everything get caught on them. I could have done it at the time, but I do not like grinding on stuff upside down.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:41 pm
by mineratt
I glassed the inside. I could not do it with the long sheets running continuously from the stern to the bow like was done on the bottom and like I have seen everyone else do them. If I start at 5am, I have until 8.30 before it reaches 85 (yesterday it got to 107 later in the day), and even then the garage remains hot from the previous day. I opted to break down the process into smaller individual sections, overlapping both between the sections and across the mid joints. I think that this uses more resin and more glass than the single sheet approach, but it can be more easily broken up and if I have to stop I can have multiple points where I can. In the end I think that it worked out reasonably well, and there were enough overlaps. The bow section got a little off kilter when I was laying it out and I will need to make some additional adjustments when I set in the forward bulkhead, however, I did get the minimum coverage required for the layer of glass.
One thin that i did notice was that there is a difference between the roll of glass that I obtained originally with the kit, and the roll of glass that I purchased from bbc later. Although they both look almost identical, the original glass wetted out much faster and more easily than the second roll of glass. The second roll of glass took more resin and required more massaging to get it fully wetted. In the end, its all in and looks reasonable, far from perfect, but nobody should ever see this.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:54 pm
by TomW1
Joining the pieces is fine with a 6" overlap. The other thing I see is you have not covered the top of transom with fiberglass tape. A couple of layers of 6" biax should be applied there. Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:32 pm
by mineratt
The two outside top edges of the transom have tape on them, then the area across the transom/clamping board has several layers of tape across the width of the transom. The area below that (where the transom is "thin" has multiple layers across the transom as well in addition to a significant amount of tabbing all around. My thought on the upper sections of the transom was to apply the second layer of tape when I glass in the two motor well and storage compartment decking pieces. Right now the only areas where the glass is lacking is right at the bow due to my poor measurements. As that area will be a rope locker it will need to be encased with glass.
Applying the tape is a lot easier than the large sheets, the tape wets out very easily.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:11 pm
by mineratt
First two bulkheads have been installed, forward and motorwell. I have been trying to tape over the top edge of the stringers that will be open under the motorwell but you really need to make sure the top edges are rounded enough otherwise you get the bubble down the center of the stringer. I have it sorted so I only have a very small spot with the bubble, perhaps I will inject some thickened epoxy under it. I just would like a little more protection for the stringer as it will be open to a wet humid environment. Also, tying it into both the motorwell bulkhead and the transom may provide a little more strength (maybe just a little).

The temperature has decreased significantly, at 95F i get maybe a 15 minute pot life (it starts to get real hot), now at 75 I get to work it in a lot longer.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:01 pm
by Dan_Smullen
All that tabbing takes a while. If you haven't already figured it out, wetting all of the tapes flat, then "hanging" them in place sped up the process for me.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:44 am
by mineratt
Installed the motor well sides and frames. I could be wrong, but I believe the directions called for only tab of tape to be used on the rear bulkhead/frame, and then two layers of tape on the motor well sides. I went a filled the gap between stringers and the motor well panels with foam whish i will trim and glass over later.
There is one frame at the bow that has a gap under it that it a bit large. The front of the stringer had a little gap under it that i had bedded with the redish puddy, but this one frame/rib has a continuation of this gap. I left it alone to let the glue attaching it to the stringer dry so that i spend a little more time filling in the gap and glassing it in later this week.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:33 pm
by mineratt
Finished off the frames and glassed in the foam between the stringers and the splashwell side plates. I added a few additional frames to support the deck behind where the console will be positioned because I am heavy.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:56 pm
by OneWayTraffic
I wouldn't worry about the strength of the deck. The biggest issue will be a bit of flex when standing in the center. A floating frame or two running bow to stern under the deck will provide more support than anything else you could do. I wished I'd done that on my build. A 1x2 on edge and it will be solid.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:49 pm
by mineratt
I have the deck grips/glue supports installed and leveled. I need to put in the instrument/control/power wire chase tubes this weekend, and start the foam filling. The picture was taken before the side supports were glued in.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:50 pm
by mineratt
Also, I found a used Suzuki DF50 for the boat.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:06 pm
by OrangeQuest
Looking really good!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:43 am
by Dan_Smullen
mineratt wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:50 pm Also, I found a used Suzuki DF50 for the boat.
Score!

Looks like lots of good glue surface for the deck. It will be solid. 1/2” or 3/8” deck?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:20 am
by TomW1
Nice pick up on the Suzuki/ Everything looks great on the boat, good work. Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 11:40 am
by mineratt
I cut the center frames for the control, cable, and fuel raceways. I made a template to make sure that the holes all lined up. They are all sanded smooth and and then coated with epoxy, fresh new opened up internal and outsides. I left the raceways uninstalled so i can pour the foam in the outside chambers and have a place to stand while cutting it. I am thinking of a liberal dose of 3m 5200 on the front and back of each frame to seal up pvc pipe piercings'.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:21 am
by mineratt
Looking back at the time table i set out at the beginning of the project, it was about this time last year that the kit arrived. My first postings started at the beginning of January, but this time would be considered the real start date. When someone tells you that the project will take year, i did not believe them, but a year it is. It has been pretty easy going, no real rush to it, and if I did not have to work the boat would have been finished long ago. That being said, maybe another three months will be required.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:16 am
by mineratt
I started the foam addition process. I had two heaters in the garage and a heat lamp to get the air temperature and skin temperature above 80. I mixed and poured in small batches and filled alternating compartments so that is might be easier to trim off the mounding layers of excess. i will add the excess pieces to the center chamber and then fill that after i finish the control raceways. I will also add foam to the empty side chambers after trimming.
I figure the easiest wat to trim the excess would be to use a long saw blade extending accross the frames to take the muffin top off, then sand the final last bit even with the frames with the orbital.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:13 am
by Dougster
The long board works pretty well to sand the foam level.

Dougster

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:52 am
by pee wee
It's debatable whether it's significant or not, but some builders feel the cut surface of the foam should be sealed (like with neat epoxy) to avoid water absorption. It seems to me that water can't penetrate more than the open cells that have been cut, so it's not an issue worth wasting epoxy over, but that's just me.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:51 am
by mineratt
I am not too concerned about the open cells at the very top of each block. I would think that would only come into play when the deck is breached and then it is not re-sealed rather quickly. But if that happens than i have other issues and water in the foam becomes pretty much a non issue. When i put the deck on I will glass the top of it for additional wear resistance.
I cut the muffin tops off with a saw using the tops of the frames as a guide. It trimmed out pretty close and i will use the sander to take it the rest of the way.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:49 am
by mineratt
I finished the foaming of the outside compartment, I just need to trim off the muffin tops and level it out again. I installed the instrument/control/steering/fuel raceways down the center and now I need to seal around the gaps in the holes in the frames with some 5200. But I think it loos pretty good with the small channel for the fuel line, two medium channels for the steering, and large channel for the rest of the rats nest of wire and cables. I will be adding the foam to the center compartment with poured foam on each end and the pieces and parts in the middle sections. With any luck I can start with the deck this weekend.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:14 am
by pee wee
Looks nice and tidy, you do good work!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:01 pm
by mineratt
The foam is poured and leveled, all set to put the deck on.
20221229_112015.jpg
20221229_112018.jpg
I was thinking about the transom a bit more. The transom was originally rounded or arched, I cut it flat across. And re-rounded the motor well cutout. I thought that it might be better to have a flat transom top so that it could attach the trolling/kicker/backup outboard. Out of Morro Bay there is no convenient tow service (towboat/boatUS does not serve the area, I found that out the hard way).
20221229_112026.jpg
20221229_112031.jpg
20221229_112043.jpg
I glassed across the top of the transom with two layers of 3oz woven, one layer of 6oz biax, and one top layer of 3oz. Because of the minimal rounding of the sided of the transom I thought that the 3oz might mold over the top of the transom a little more smoothly which it did, that worked well so I thought lets put the 6oz tape over it as well, it worked and molded just fine, but the tape was a bit rough so I laminated a layer of 3oz as a top layer to smooth it all out. The first picture shows some white parks that look like "bubbles" but they are smudges from sanding the top layer.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:05 am
by cape man
Nice job on the foam and transom.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:43 pm
by mineratt
First deck piece installed and the second one coated on the underside and getting setup for the adhesive. The good thing about using epoxy when it is 50F outside is that you have plenty of time for the epoxy to setup which is great when you are laying up the large sections of cloth or taping joints, but when you are pre-coating pieces it takes forever to transition them. And yes I have been using the slow/non-blushing hardener which does take extra time, and yes, once everything is all spread out i have been hot boxing the garage with a propane heater. I only have room to pre-coat one panel at a time before installing them on the deck, If I did this during the summer it could have been done in an afternoon.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 4:07 pm
by mineratt
Now that the deck is well on the way and things are rapidly moving forward I need to consider the outboard mounting arrangements. I have read several posts regarding the spacing of the bolt holes for the outboard. the height of the clamping board is barely marginal to adequately drill the lower two mounting holes, it can and has been done, but the height of the board is really not quite enough. I should have thought of this before, when I was laminating the transom but i did not. I had a similar issue with the transom of a Boston Whaler which I overcame by installing a jackplate with the two bottom holes raised by 1 1/2 inches. So for this I will install a similar jackplate with the raised lower holes. And then the jackplate would be sealed to the transom with the traditional 3m 5200 which would further stabilize the whole thing. The one question would be whether a standard 6 inch setback or the less standard 4 inch setback should be used.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:35 pm
by TomW1
I would go with the 4" assuming you have the standard transom cutout. This will keep you from having to move too much weight forward by hanging the motor further off the back. Ask if you want more detailed calculations.

Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:18 pm
by mineratt
Thank you Tom, I will go with the 4 inch setback bracket.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:29 pm
by mineratt
The whole of the deck is on. I used a lot of the gel magic adhesive for the installation, it did take a lot. And then the gaps around the edges of the deck between the deck and sides were pumped in with the brown fillet stuff.
20221231_093136.jpg
The area right at the bow end of the deck had a gap of about 1 inch between the deck and forward bulkhead. For this I filled it in with the brown fillet maker, partially, I will finish it and make it flush with the deck when I tape the edges. And the tapered edge of the forward deck will need some more fillet to level or smooth it out.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:16 pm
by mineratt
One layer of tape around the edges of the deck with additional brown goop applied to the joints. I am going to run cloth down the center to add a little more wear resistance and then maybe re-tab the side deck joints, again for added wear resistance to make sure nothing gets through. One slight issue is that with the cool temperatures it takes so long for the epoxy to setup and gel over, the epoxy flows off the more vertical surfaces and then pools on the flat deck. I went over the tape when I was laying it up, but it appeared to get a little by the time I finished, so I went back and rolled a little more epoxy on the tape while it was all still wet. I will need to sand out the pooled epoxy before adding on any more glass or tape. The bow area still has a bit of a divot in the joint. After it all gels up and sets up, I think I will add in some more filler to level it all off.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:38 pm
by mineratt
I have sanded the interior in preparation for laying out a layer of 12oz biax cloth. For this I divided the deck into six segments with a joint down the middle. The edge of the cloth will extend 6 to 8 inches up the side of the interior hull, just beyond the deck joint tape. Because I am doing this by myself I think the six segments installed over several days will be a little more doable. Because this is more for wear and not for strength I will not be going with overlaps, just butt joints.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:12 pm
by mineratt
Now that the deck is entirely covered with 12oz cloth it is much more rigid and solid feeling, in fact with the deck glued down the entire boat feels much more rigid as well. I am now starting to install the forward and aft deck cleats. The forward is all installed, but i ran out of clamps so the aft will get finished up later as the glue sets up. One good thing about working in a cold garage is that the epoxy has a very extended cure time. As long as you see a mistake you have plenty of time to fix it or make adjustments. I have been putting everything together in the morning when it is at or just below 50, then turning on the gas heater to cure it out. It takes longer, but when placing and wetting out the larger sections like with the deck it does make it easier.

After finishing the glassing of the deck, I ran out of epoxy again and had to re-order again.

I have a bit of left over Pennent Primer from the outside of the hull that I plan to use for the bow and stern compartments. I have read that the two part epoxy primer make a good barrier coating, for internal compartments do you really need a top coat or the "bilge coat" paint? I want to paint the interior compartments before I glue and glass the deck sections on.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:23 pm
by mineratt
TomW1 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:35 pm I would go with the 4" assuming you have the standard transom cutout. This will keep you from having to move too much weight forward by hanging the motor further off the back. Ask if you want more detailed calculations.

Tom
Tom, If you are offering, then I would love some assistance. The boat has the standard cutout. As far as weights for installed equipment, and alterations go, here it is;
  • Suzuki 50hp outboard 230lbs (on transom)
  • 4 inch setback bracket 15lbs (on transom)
  • Aluminum Ski Pylon 25 lbs (sitting on aft deck above motor well)
  • Center Console 35lbs (positioned with leading edge on Frame C)
  • 18 Gallon Fuel tank 20 lbs, empty (positioned on deck, center, in front of center console)
  • Leaning post, 35 lbs, (positioned just behind the center console),
  • Single wet cell starting battery 70 lbs (inside of center console)
  • 6hp Tohatsu outboard, 73 lbs mounted on transom (starboard side) (I am looking to put on a a lower weight 2 stroke outboard in the 45 lb range)
  • The entire space under the main deck is foam filled
  • Top of all decks are glassed
  • One extra layer of glass full length along the bottom of the hull
I am thinking about moving the center console/battery/fuel tank forward by 12 inches so that the center console will split on Frame C.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:14 pm
by mineratt
I finished boxing in the cleats for the two transom compartments. I started leveling out the bow cleats. That got me thinking a bit, the instruction sheets do not really say anything about the top of the bow compartment with respect to reinforcement, only that any fitting must have backing plates. If I were to install an anchor cleat on the top of the bow compartment like I have seen in many pictures, how would the lack reinforcement affect the strength of the anchor cleat? I have seen the low shear builds where they build a casting deck in the front where they add 1x2's under the deck, but I do not intend to stand on this deck section. What i did for this was to notch a 1x8 plank into the bulkhead cleat (1x4) and radius the leading edge to lay flat on the bow cleats. This is flat and level with the bow bulkhead up to the bow. I can use this as a guide to level out the top of the side sheets as well to make the decking a little more smooth when I glue it down.

This leads to another question, what thickness of plywood should I use for the bow deck, considering that it will be glassed on both the top and bottom, I was thinking 1/4", the instructions do not say, and there are many opinions related to many other types of boats. In keeping with the "light" design of the boat I was thinking 1/4" with the full length backing structure down the middle.

In the picture you can see the bow reinforcement, not a great picture. Also the stern locker reinforcement for the stern rack.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:11 pm
by mineratt
Over the weekend I was able to glue down the rear compartment deck pieces, it is pretty solid, especially with the deck reinforcements for the transom rack. Then I added a 2 ft wide strip of 1/4 inch ply down the center to provide a little more reinforcement for the console, tank, and to elevate my feet a little to keep out of the splash water. This center strip will be glassed around the edges with tape, and then across the top as well.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:15 pm
by mineratt
Seeing as how the major deck structures are installed (not glassed or finished) I thought I would mock up the rest of the main pieces.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:23 pm
by mineratt
Glassed in the transom deck pieces and motor well. Two strips of tape along all edges/corners, several additional long strips from transom to deck over the reinforced areas and over the place where the rail will be attached just to make sure the area is well reinforced. I added a sheet of 12oz to the top of the motor well that extends from the transom lip to almost the deck to tie it all together. Several of the taped areas got a little cloudy (second layer) but I did not see any bubbles or issues. All taped corners staggered with respect to sequence. I will trim the over extensions after it all sets up. I would think that this should be strong enough for pretty much anything the FS17 is capable of.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:52 pm
by mineratt
So I was in the process of laminating the 1/4 inch strip of plywood down the middle of the deck and encountered a slight issue. I started the process of laying tape around the edge of the plywood and i thought that since it was only 1/4 inch i thought that the tape would form to the step. I was incorrect. I could not get the tape to smoothly lay down and an almost full length bubble was encountered. This was by far not my best work. I should have rounded, angled, or tapered the edges before I laminated the panels. So after all of the epoxy was fully cured i had to take the angle grinder to put in the taper, without grinding through the deck glass. I did that last night. To tape the panel edges I will put in a small bead of fillet around the edges and the tape the edges again. Hope it goes better this next time.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:11 pm
by Cowbro
That is the nice thing about this building procedure. Almost anything can be repaired and fixed properly. Keep up the good work, the end is in sight.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:38 pm
by Fuzz
Yep if little boo-boos could not be fixed I would be totally screwed :lol:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:51 pm
by Fuzz
Yep if little boo-boos could not be fixed I would be totally screwed :lol:

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:42 pm
by mineratt
before and after

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:26 am
by cape man
Even with that fix I recommend you make a filet around the edge before taping it. It will fill all the small voids and create a smoother appearance.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:20 am
by pee wee
mineratt wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:52 pm To tape the panel edges I will put in a small bead of fillet around the edges and the tape the edges again. Hope it goes better this next time.
Looks like that did the trick, nice!

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:32 pm
by mineratt
I have the base of the center console roughed in and glassed in place. The idea being to have no penetrations or screws through the deck. I filled in the deck raceway opening with foam, I will put a light layer of glass across the top of it in case I get a little high water on the deck.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:56 pm
by mineratt
If the FS17 is going to be stored on a boat lift that uses slings instead of a cradle, do i need to incorporate any additional reinforcement near the sling lift points on the sides of the boat or gunnels?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:55 pm
by TomW1
No need to just position the straps under the frames so that you balance her well. I would guess the frame in front of the transom and then frame C. Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 4:56 pm
by fallguy1000
2nd Tom

If you wanted to; you could add an extra glass tape for a foot or two centered as per Tom's gueses.

The only time to worry is a boatload of people while on the slings, but the forces are mostly up into hullsides even then, so not too much to fear. The compressive strength of ply is a lot.

My boat gets taken out on 6" wide slings and I am always worried about crushing the bottom core or side core; so far been okay and it is 10,000#..

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:03 pm
by BarraMan
For what its worth, I've lifted my boat with slings attached to Ds either side of the transom and around the bow through the bow eye! Those fittings are all 1/2" s/s. :D

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:03 pm
by VT_Jeff
 ! Message from: VT_Jeff
I like your approach with the dam around the tubes. Will the console be removable?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:02 am
by mineratt
Jeff,
I have read that the console should be bolted to the deck, but this console will be fairly small and should not be under too much stress when towing or when the boat is banging off the waves. Because I do not want any water migration through the deck into the bilge I want to limit all holes or penetrations into the bilge area. i want everything to be tight. I built the "dam" around the cable raceways and filled it with foam and will cap it off with a layer of glass in order to make sure everything stays water tight (I stole the idea from the guy who built the FS17 in the UK, his looked much better). The stand-off that the console will sit on is glued to the deck, filleted and glassed down as well on both sides (inside and outside) so i think that it should be able to provide a proper foundation for the console, there is a drain hole at the bottom of the standoff to keep water from sitting. I plan to permanently attach the console to the base with screws at each corner going into the base, and tape/fillet on the inside of the console, perhaps a little 5200 right on the initial base joint. But that will all have to wait until I finish the bow and gunnels.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:52 pm
by VT_Jeff
mineratt wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:02 am Jeff,
I have read that the console should be bolted to the deck, but this console will be fairly small and should not be under too much stress when towing or when the boat is banging off the waves. Because I do not want any water migration through the deck into the bilge I want to limit all holes or penetrations into the bilge area. i want everything to be tight. I built the "dam" around the cable raceways and filled it with foam and will cap it off with a layer of glass in order to make sure everything stays water tight (I stole the idea from the guy who built the FS17 in the UK, his looked much better). The stand-off that the console will sit on is glued to the deck, filleted and glassed down as well on both sides (inside and outside) so i think that it should be able to provide a proper foundation for the console, there is a drain hole at the bottom of the standoff to keep water from sitting. I plan to permanently attach the console to the base with screws at each corner going into the base, and tape/fillet on the inside of the console, perhaps a little 5200 right on the initial base joint. But that will all have to wait until I finish the bow and gunnels.
Understood.

Just throwing ideas around here, not advice: I'm not convinced that you couldn't just bolt the console to the base like Fuzzytrout did(he did need to remove it to garage it). The engine is only bolted on the boat and it's a LOT heavier than the console. Not that glassing it on is bad, but bolts leave you options down the road. Just food for thought.

I also tried to go for a dry bilge but failed pretty badly at it. After the first season I had to make some modifications: add a bilge pump, limber holes, drain plug, etc. I also used a dam(2, actually) but it clearly did not work for me, yours looks a fair bit better. I did not/do not have foam, luckily, or it would have been completely logged.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:51 pm
by mineratt
VT_Jeff wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:52 pm
mineratt wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:02 am Jeff,
I have read that the console should be bolted to the deck, but this console will be fairly small and should not be under too much stress when towing or when the boat is banging off the waves. Because I do not want any water migration through the deck into the bilge I want to limit all holes or penetrations into the bilge area. i want everything to be tight. I built the "dam" around the cable raceways and filled it with foam and will cap it off with a layer of glass in order to make sure everything stays water tight (I stole the idea from the guy who built the FS17 in the UK, his looked much better). The stand-off that the console will sit on is glued to the deck, filleted and glassed down as well on both sides (inside and outside) so i think that it should be able to provide a proper foundation for the console, there is a drain hole at the bottom of the standoff to keep water from sitting. I plan to permanently attach the console to the base with screws at each corner going into the base, and tape/fillet on the inside of the console, perhaps a little 5200 right on the initial base joint. But that will all have to wait until I finish the bow and gunnels.
Understood.

Just throwing ideas around here, not advice: I'm not convinced that you couldn't just bolt the console to the base like Fuzzytrout did(he did need to remove it to garage it). The engine is only bolted on the boat and it's a LOT heavier than the console. Not that glassing it on is bad, but bolts leave you options down the road. Just food for thought.

I also tried to go for a dry bilge but failed pretty badly at it. After the first season I had to make some modifications: add a bilge pump, limber holes, drain plug, etc. I also used a dam(2, actually) but it clearly did not work for me, yours looks a fair bit better. I did not/do not have foam, luckily, or it would have been completely logged.
I am open to all advice and recommendations. The only time I ever felt the need to remove the center console was on a an old Dusky open fisherman, the deck had gotten a bit springy. the opening into the bilge area is packed with foam and there will be the epoxy cap on top which will limit water migration. If there is any water migration into the raceways it will end up in the transom storage area/transom bilge. The raceways are sealed at each frame with either 5200 or 4200 with poured foam behind them. If water does migrate then I will be at a loss and I will have to pull the deck. This is similar to what the Dusky had and it lasted over 30 years before I had an issue. It is all theoretical until the boat hits the water, and then what happens, happens. The boat will have scuppers for drainage, and a large automatic deck pump.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:01 pm
by mineratt
I set the bow deck on the cleats and glued it in with the gel magic. After waiting 5 or 6 hours I filled in the triangular gap around the edge, I used the fine point on the glue tube to get the filler all the way to the back of the gap. The will be the initial filling, once i grind the edge of the deck flush with the rub rail I can finish the filling, rounding and shaping. On the bottom side of the deck I covered it with 6oz cloth.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:49 am
by mineratt
Sanded and shaped, need to do a second round of filling.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:03 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Looks good and feels good too, I bet.

Will you laminate a layer of glass over all of that?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:17 pm
by mineratt
I am planning on a layer of more easily wetted out 6oz tape around all of the edges down to the bottom of the rub rail. I will then roll out a piece of cut 12oz for the surface that will form around the top edge and down as far as it can stretch to the bottom of the rub rail (I have never been able to place specifically cut pieces of cloth with any real accuracy so i am just wanting it to at least cover the top half of the rub rail, more is better, but half would be acceptable. The large cloth will drape over the bulkhead and cover the top half of the bulkhead that does not have any cloth on it yet.

I am going with the 6oz tape because i can more easily place it and get it set perfect. Then the heavier cloth can cover everything to provide the needed abrasion coating and increased deck to rail strength.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:11 am
by mineratt
I added the 6oz to all of the edges, it formed to the radius very well requiring no re-work. I sanded the entire deck down again and applied the 12oz biax to the top of the deck and extended the biaz layer around the edge to cover the rub rail in addition to the 6oz. The top of the deck turned out perfectly, but the rub rail cover piece was problematic, it just would not stay bent around the radius. It would start lifting up at the bow and then propagate down the rest of the side. I spent an hour hitting it with the roller, as soon as I finished - one side would start lifting up again. In the end it placed a piece of heavy duct tape reversed over the bow edge - weighted on one side and tapped down to the hull on the lower edge, this seemed to keep that leading edge from lifting up. Then after the epoxy set up two more applications to smooth it all out.
I will need to re-address the bow tip as there are areas the did lift off, but that should be easy enough once it has all cured out.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm
by mineratt
I installed the braces for the gunnel. Glued to the hull and tabbed in place with 12oz biax, then the inside edge was wrapped with 6oz plain weave to give it a little it more wear resistance. I added a block at the bow end glued to the forward bulkhead for the inner batton to rest on and a block on top of the rear bulkhead/deck piece to terminate the batton. I added the battons on the inside and support blocks. It is slowly moving forward.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:57 am
by narfi
Looking good. How wide are you making the gunwales? My wife really likes the wide ones on our fs17

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 11:49 am
by mineratt
I am going to make the gunnels at the same width as what was supplied in the plans. They will be pretty skinny, near 6 inches. Then a lip on the top inside edge will hopefully keep the spray off. I am thinking of only maybe two vertical rod holders. With the aluminum frame on the transom and maybe two spreader holder on the console I think that I can do away with the gunnel holders.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:59 pm
by mineratt
Shaped the gunnel cleats with the belt sander and prepped everything for the gunnel deck pieces. There were two long left over pieces from which I managed to cut the necessary two gunnel deck pieces per side from. On the bottom side I put in a single layer of 12oz biax to stiffen the deck pieces. Everything is all glued down. After it all cures out I will do an initial filling of the outside gap then sand to final shape with the belt sander.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:24 am
by Jeff
Nice progress!!! Jeff

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 02, 2023 10:18 am
by mineratt
The last set of fillet mix comes in today, who knows maybe I will finish up the gunnels with glassing this weekend, then its sanding and faring the upper structures, then priming and painting. But at this point all major additions and construction projects are now finished. It may actually make it to morro bay this summer.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 02, 2023 11:33 am
by Jeff
Good progress!!! Jeff

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 07, 2023 7:15 pm
by mineratt
I filled in the gap under the outside edge of the gunnel and sanded it flush all around. I glassed the outside edge of the gunnel with two layers of 6oz, the inside edge with 1 layer of 6oz with 2ft sections above the frames with an additional layer of 6oz. the open strip down the center has a layer of 6oz. i applied a layer of puddy to fair it out then a wide layer of 6oz to lock if all in.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:02 pm
by mineratt
this leads to a general question, how is the stern side of the gunnel typically secured to the transom; laying on top of the transom and glued down, butt joined with a block? The different "how to" files never really show this detail. I layed the gunnel board on top of the transom lip and used a crap load of glue to lay it down. I used layers of 6oz placed in different directions along the outside edge onto the transom, then cloth covering the gunnel to top of transom. Is this enough? all interfaces are glued and have at least 2 layers of 6oz cloth.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:07 pm
by mineratt
i am thinking about adding a fillet and cloth to the underside of the gunnel at each frame to reinforce the gunnel. everything has been appropriately glued as per the general how to instructions. I was thinking that maybe the additional reinforcement might be good to support the docking cleats and for holders. on a side note, the entire underside has been glassed with 12oz biax before i assembled the gunnel top.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 11:39 am
by TomW1
You need to put a reinforcing block under each cleat and other hardware. These should be twice as beg as the cleat you install to prevent pull out. Use a minimum of 1/2" ply better is 3/4" for these backing blocks,

Toms

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 6:39 pm
by mineratt
I know about the backing plates, that is a given whether it is the FS17, or a Dusky. But what about actually reinforcing how the deck (gunnel deck) is attached to the frames? Is it strong enough with just the epoxy, or should I add the fillets/cloth to the spots where the gunnel deck attaches to the tops of the frames. If it is enough as is then that would be perfect and I will stop with is as is and just start faring it out.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 9:48 pm
by TomW1
Ok attach a 3/4" block coated in epoxy on each side of the frame to strengthen the joint and give you plenty of gluing surface for the deck. This will be plenty and should have been in the plans some where.

Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 5:29 am
by OneWayTraffic
Yes cleat where you can't fillet and tape. Both would work, and cleats are easier when upside down, or blind. Don't forget to paint up under there either. UV will reflect off the sole, and eventually degrade the epoxy there.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:43 am
by mineratt
Gotcha, yes this cleat is in the plans and I have incorporated them. This is the last item to consider for construction and i do not want to miss something right at the end. That being said i guess all the glassing is now done, just down to the final fairing now. It has been a bit of a journey, but now the end is in sight.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:58 am
by mineratt
So I encountered a slight issue. At the bow where the deck meets the bottom hull panel and the front frame the glass appeared to be turning a whitish yellow. I initially ignored it and thought is was just a minor thing. This was the glass right at the deck joint. But as I have started fairing the topsides I decided to grind it all out and rebuild the joint. As i was grinding it out i noticed the fillet was cracked, so good catch. To rebuild it I ground out the majority of it, I refilled it with the red goo, put a layer of 12 oz on top of it, increased the fillet with another bit of red goo, then put a layer of 12 oz on top of that, then put a final fillet of red goo and one final layer of 12 oz on top of that. This was on the port side and across the front edge of the deck piece. I am guessing that there was maybe a little bit of flex in the original seam, so I went overboard on the fillet to make sure that it was as strong as possible. I kept adding alternating layers of puddy and cloth until it was built up enough to have a very smooth and gradual transition to either the hull panel or the bow frame. It may be a little overboard but it only takes a few extra minutes.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 11:04 am
by mineratt
The whiteness in the pictures is not an air bubble or poor bonding, its mostly due to the use of the flash on the cell phone camara and the wet epoxy in the final layer.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 11:07 am
by mineratt
I started fairing the top sides. I think I must do this in stages or blocks so the job does not appear to be too daunting. In the pictures it looks like the puddy is applied really thick but it is not, its just very red and I pressed it into the sanded weave of the top layer of cloth.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:38 pm
by Fuzz
Work looks very nice! You are making good progress.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:42 pm
by mineratt
I faired out (mostly) the topside deck areas and got them primed over the weekend with two coats. I will start on the interior with the fairing next. But before that i need to work on how the leaning pose will be bolted down, without penetrating the deck.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 9:29 pm
by mineratt
I want the deck to be completely hole and fastener free which makes securing the leaning post seat a bit of a problem. I saw on another thread where someone used strips of g4? With threaded holes for the screws. I have some 1/2 inch fiberglass sheets. I cut the sheets into 3 inch strips, drilled through holes and installed 1/4-20 stainless liners with a "washer" like backing that has small spikes to keep the insert both in place and non rotating. I glued the strips in place while bolted to the leaning post base. After the strips semi cured I put a layer of 6oz cloth on all sides with an additional 2 wide strips of cloth securing each one in place.
After this is completely cured I can finish faring the deck and finish priming.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:04 am
by fallguy1000
Where is the gas tank?

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:42 am
by mineratt
That is a good question. I have an aluminum 18 gal tank that will sit in front of the console on the top of the deck. This will of course look ugly, so on top of the tank there will be a an aluminum framed casting deck that will act as both a seat and stand so i can get a little higher. Or I can always just go with the small 6 gal tanks but I anticipate some longer runs up the coast on nice days.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:51 am
by mineratt
It has now been sanded as much as it is going to be and at least three coats of System 3 primer have been applied everywhere. All holes have been drilled and cut with all edges coated in epoxy.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:11 am
by Jeff
Looks good!! Jeff

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:14 am
by jbo_c
mineratt wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:51 am It has now been sanded as much as it is going to be . . .
That’s how much I’m sanding mine. LOL

Looks good.

Jbo

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:52 pm
by mineratt
I started painting at 3am to stay out of the heat. I managed to get three full coats on by 11am. In order to keep the sweat off the deck i used the full painters suits. By the end it was like a full sauna in there. After everything cures up I will go back and maybe do one more full finish coat to top it off.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:06 am
by pee wee
Good progress! I know you're glad to have that behind you.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:52 pm
by mineratt
so now for the final mockup. now to bolt, glue, and caulk it all together.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:58 pm
by TomW1
Looks good guy.!!! Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:16 pm
by mineratt
bracket installed this evening. i went with the 4 inch setback. i wanted 4 holes to be in the main clamping board so i added to intermediate holes and kept the lower lower holes as well. I used 5200 liberally as well as the the aluminum braces. it should be good.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:41 pm
by TomW1
Any reason for the bracket? They really are not much affective on a v-hull boat. The FS17 already only drafts 7". It will be hard for you to keep the prop from ventilating if you raise it to much. Also by moving the motor back you upset the LCG meaning you need to move some weight forward of the LCG to compensate.

Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 1:59 pm
by mineratt
Good point. I much prefer hanging an out board on a bracket than directly to the transom, personal preference. I have always been able to have a better installation by spending time to secure the bracket with all adhesives/sealant, rather than balancing a 200# ÷ outboard and doing it directly. I have the bracket, it is mounted a little low (very little) and I can fine tune the height. I do not think the 4 inch set back will be too significant with the console shifted forward, fuel in front of console battery in console, and my constantly shifting 250#. But we will see and make adjustments as necessary once it hits water.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:01 pm
by mineratt
Good point. I much prefer hanging an out board on a bracket than directly to the transom, personal preference. I have always been able to have a better installation by spending time to secure the bracket with all adhesives/sealant, rather than balancing a 200# ÷ outboard and doing it directly. I have the bracket, it is mounted a little low (very little) and I can fine tune the height. I do not think the 4 inch set back will be too significant with the console shifted forward, fuel in front of console battery in console, and my constantly shifting 250#. But we will see and make adjustments as necessary once it hits water.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:02 pm
by mineratt
But i have been wrong before.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2023 1:30 pm
by mineratt
Transferred the boat off the cart and onto a trailer. the weight of the boat without tank, batteries, or motor is 865 lbs.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:42 pm
by TomW1
It looks great. Tom

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:08 am
by narfi
Looks good and not bad on the weight. I was 1322 fully outfitted with motor, battery and 19gal of fuel.

viewtopic.php?p=476605#p476605

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:28 am
by mineratt
Narfi, yours looks very nice and from the video it looks like it runs very well. I think that all said and done I should be right at or maybe a little under your weight once i have the motor(s), tank, and battery installed. I will pick it up again and re-weigh it at that time as well.

Re: Another FS17 Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:16 pm
by narfi
You are going to love it. I definatly overbuilt and went heavier than I should. I'd really like the time to build a light weight one some day, be a completely different focus than the first build which we are still really enjoying. (Though it's past time for me to do some work on replacing the sacrificial keel strips)