New to the game...

Sail Boats 15' and up. Please include the boat type in your question.
altruistic
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New to the game...

Post by altruistic »

I went on a sailing holiday in 1993 to Greece and loved every minute. Now I'm approaching retirement, most of my holidays have been touring in motorhomes, around Europe but now I want to venture further afield.
I've followed Michael Kohler's journey with his wife and their Solarwave 46 and now Solar-Yachts. I want to full-time live aboard and travel the world. I'm not really a sailor, but I am practical, renovated a fair few houses and motorhomes and understand solar installs. Kohler has followed a path of catamarans and I thought this the only solution until I found Jorma Ponkala and his 'Shalom' boat. I have a few design ideas such as wind turbines combined with solar and also a second extending solar deck to form a kind of 'aircraft carrier / aeroplane' shape at the stern.
I've also followed Scott at Six Points Wood Works as he builds a 42ft wooden trawler and he's given me ideas about constructing a temporary structure in which to build the boat. I've also followed MJ Sailing and their build of the MaxCruise Catamaran.
Any advice as to how I advance my dreams into reality?
Budget wise, I imagine the sale of my house will suffice a self-build, approximately £350,000.
Thanks,
Al

narfi
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Re: New to the game...

Post by narfi »

A few thoughts from someone who also dreams.

350k from the house.... You still have a way of living without that or any income?
How will you build a boat without a place to build?
Solar for house needs or propulsion as well?

Single or married? Assume any kids would be moved out if retiring?

The simplest and most economical wold be to find a well built Richard Woods(or other established designer) design already built and upgrade to your desire.

Next would be building one of his designs.
Next would be a more modern looking design or kit such as Schionning or the Max cruise you mentioned.

If single, do you really need a catamaran? A monohull would be a lot cheaper.

Time and money and a stubborn persistence.... That's all you need.

Do you want to build or do you want to sail?
(My problem is I want to build and my wife wants to sail, so we will "compromise" and buy a boat... :P )

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Re: New to the game...

Post by TomW1 »

You need to find the post of Evan Gatehouse's build and circumnavigation. He built a catamaran and then did a circumnavigation just 2-3 years ago. He is one of the designers on here and is very qualified to answer your questions. Here is a link from Evan. viewtopic.php?p=479250#p479250

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fallguy1000
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Re: New to the game...

Post by fallguy1000 »

Hard to beat narfi's wisdom.

Best thing is to research, then buy used with a survey, or build which takes about 5-10 years for a large boat. You can do it quicker if you have help and super focus, healthy, no distractions, but 3 years would he very fast for a bluewater build.

Find a foam and epoxy build if possible. Those materials are really best. Not to knock sheathed plywood, but it does carry some risk to the buyer.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

altruistic
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Re: New to the game...

Post by altruistic »

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the replies. That's just the kind of advice I was looking for. I'm from the UK.
If it was self-build, I'd be thinking of locating somewhere where I could erect a temporary building (like Six Wood's) and live in the motorhome while I did it. I'm not sure how planning law in this country might restrict / allow this dream? (there's an awful lot of farmland near the coast), so maybe relocate to non-EU location?
How would the cost of building something somewhere else in the world that the UK fair?
Are materials etc. cheaper in other countries?
I know Bulgaria compared to the UK has much cheaper living costs.
Would that be worth doing?
I'd be building / converting something full-time, so would be 24/7 pretty much until it was completed. It took me two and a half years to renovate the building we've lived in for the past 22 years, so age and health aside, I'm used to working by myself most of the time, although I would definitely buy in labour when needed.
I've just dug the 'GlassFibre Boat Manual' edited by Bo Streiffert and Peter Kemp 'Illustrated Guide to Sailing' off the shelves. I bought these back in the day, but I'm sure I'll glean things from them. I'll certainly have a look at the links you guys have provided and get back to you all when I've done that.
Cheers
Al
Last edited by altruistic on Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

altruistic
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Re: New to the game...

Post by altruistic »

One question I forgot to ask....
Around the world, is there a standardised size for marina / mooring costs? What I mean, is there an advantage if I end up building something, to the size of boat? Is there a category of boats say up to 20ft length, 10ft width, up to 30ft length, 15ft width etc.

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Re: New to the game...

Post by Jaysen »

Prior to last year the breaks were at 40’ increments. Ex price per foot under 40, under 80. There was a “penalty” for multihull. With the large number of very wide monohulls the numbers are changing. The group I’m associated with has indicated that the break will move down to about 30’ and will add a general “wide beam” charge based on feet of beam starting at around 10’ (may be more). The Caribbean marinas seems to have moved price breaks to 35’ sometime in 2020. Also seem to have instituted a beam penalty as well.

That said there are no actual standards. You need to keep in contact with places you plan to visit and stay on top of things. You also can’t plan on extended time on anchor either. Several US states are passing laws to make more than 72hr in a single location or more than 10d on anchor a misdemeanor. The claim is that this will prevent abandonment of vessels (there are already laws about this so I call bull pucks). The only exception clauses are lack of marina (not capacity, just a marina) within “reasonable distance”. That wording is bizarre as I have a 12’ sail dinghy and a 24’ cruiser. Who determines “reasonable distance” for each of those?

Anyway… research each port for pricing and legal anchor options.


As to building a boat… unless you specify needs your better off refitting an existing hull. Not because of cost but for legal liability. Certain locals are really getting picky about refs regarding emissions and waste tanks. I’ve been told some horror stories from some built boats attempting to enter certain locales and inspections being derailed because the “manufacturer” wasn’t commercial boatyard. Keep copy of plans, detailed documentation of modifications, detailed plumbing and wiring schematics and make all voids inspectable (even if filled with foam).

Good luck.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
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fallguy1000
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Re: New to the game...

Post by fallguy1000 »

The EU has some very strict rules. I won't attempt to cite them. Most marinas won't let you slip without insirance and most insurance won't insire without survey and most surveys won't land without adherence to local rules.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

altruistic
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Re: New to the game...

Post by altruistic »

Thanks once again for all the replies.
I've been thinking about getting a hull and then fabricating it like Jorma Ponkala's boat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0NB5AVsYIQ

It strike's me that I may be better looking at power boats, since they have the advantage of having no rigging to remove. They also have engines which could be removed and possibly sold on. This would leave more room for electrics such as the motor and batteries. The solar panel layout I'm thinking of would have two slide-outs from under the main run of panels. For day-to-day running of the house electrics, the main run of panels would more than suffice. Once a journey is underway, the slide-outs could be employed for more power harvesting.

With this in mind, what do you guys think of this boat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0NB5AVsYIQ

At 36ft long, it has a width of around 10.5 ft (tapering of course). This would give with slide-outs a panel coverage of somewhere between 6000 - 8000 watts, depending on age of panels (newer ones are slightly smaller per watt produced).

I have thought of the weight I would be adding to the hull, but would think if the upper part of the boat employed lightweight materials, then the weight of the panels and racking (aluminium) would probably be more than offset by the removal of two heavy diesel engines.

Anybody see a glaring problem with the initial idea of this as a concept?

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Re: New to the game...

Post by narfi »

For solar power, everything has to be about efficiency. I am certainly no expert, but I have thought about it a lot....

Any powerboat you look at will have a relatively larger engine than a sailboat, (as a stereotype) it is not designed for efficiency and instead overcomes its inefficiencies with more power.
A sailboat will more likely be designed to be more efficient and if you can keep your expectations on speed within reason you can have a decent setup, maybe.

Do you want to go under power on consecutive days?
What % of your propulsion do you want to come from solar?
If you are running a generator regularly, or shore power nightly, you would calculate things a lot differently than if say you wanted to be 100% solar and traveling 50 miles per day.....

I have found calculators online before that give rough(very rough) estimations on power need to take an x length, y weight boat at z speed. You can convert the HP requirements to KW, then you can know how many kwh you will use per day traveling say 50miles at 6 knots burning 12kw(all made up numbers). (50/6)*(KW rate)
For the day you used 100kwh to travel 50 miles, and it took you 8hrs 20 minutes.
Say you had 5hrs of good sun with your 8kw array, that added 40kwh to the pot

This means you consumed 60kwh more than you made, and you would have needed a battery bank of 60kwh + reserves.... (say 80)

With this setup, if the sun always shines your 5hrs per day, then you can travel 50 miles, sit at anchor and explore for 2 days, then repeat.... perfect for doing the great loop except for the pesky issue of overcast days when you will need a good generator to make up the difference.

That is how I have run napkin math anyway, I am sure there are more scientific ways, but that's the broad strokes.

For a platform, a good 'performance' catamaran, very light weight but very large footprint would work well for maximizing your array size and minimizing propulsion needs.

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