Thanks for all your assistance and work to look into this. The sides are going to have a layer of cloth over the seams and the bottom will have two layers of cloth covering it and I'm going to add a layer of cloth on the hull bottom on the inside not called for in the plans but it will make me feel better. It should be plenty strong. the rest of the assemblies (rudder parts, centerboard, dagger box etc) will be glued together with thickened epoxy.
CK17 build thread
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Re: CK17 build thread
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OnlineJaysen
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Re: CK17 build thread
The big thing is stick to the build notes for minimum glue up and lamination. Your additional layers will add strength (and weight) but the original layup should be adequate.
What makes you feel the extra glass is needed?
Not attempting to talk you out of it but some folks forget how carefully Jacques designed these boats. I added extra glass to mine and pay the price every time I launch/retrieve. That said I tend to eat glass off the bottom of my hull through normal (for me) use.
What makes you feel the extra glass is needed?
Not attempting to talk you out of it but some folks forget how carefully Jacques designed these boats. I added extra glass to mine and pay the price every time I launch/retrieve. That said I tend to eat glass off the bottom of my hull through normal (for me) use.
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Re: CK17 build thread
It's really more about longevity and better waterproofing. . . That and I'm 225 lbs and a little added strength in the bottom for when I'm standing on the bottom makes me feel better. I' will be glassing the seat tops too.Jaysen wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:10 pm The big thing is stick to the build notes for minimum glue up and lamination. Your additional layers will add strength (and weight) but the original layup should be adequate.
What makes you feel the extra glass is needed?
Not attempting to talk you out of it but some folks forget how carefully Jacques designed these boats. I added extra glass to mine and pay the price every time I launch/retrieve. That said I tend to eat glass off the bottom of my hull through normal (for me) use.
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OnlineJaysen
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Re: CK17 build thread
I might be trying to suggest to you that you consider rethinking the extra glass.
I have a V12. 1/4" meranti hull, CNC kit. 2 layers of 6"@6oz biax on seams (inside and out), 12oz woven over exterior. I added (at original build) even more at the bottom corners as I knew I would be grinding the hull on concrete, oysters, shells, docks, and anything else that I could possibly run into or drop the boat onto. A 95lb hull now weighs 150lbs. The "extra" bought me 3 years between shiny new and "oh crap, I think that's the third layer of the ply exposed!"
The V12 had large spans of unsupported hull that you stand on. Much larger than the CK17. The ONLY time that hull flexed before glassing was on the stand. Still flexes on the stand with all the extra glass. But only on the stand. On the water... no flex. Consider that the bench structures on the CK add SIGNIFICANT stiffening and there will be very little opportunity for flexing.
Glass provides no waterproofing. The key to solid waterproofing is the "neat" coat of epoxy you apply BEFORE glassing. The glass holds epoxy, but it isn't really providing the waterproofing of the wood. I've been told that to get the best water resistance, apply a neat (no additives) layer of epoxy to your ply the evening before glassing. support the epoxy on some spacers, cover the upper side and the edges wiping away drips, let it get a bit past tackey then flip the part and do it again. As I understand it, doing this later in the day tends to pull the epoxy into the wood as the air in the wood will contract slightly as it cools with ambient air temps. I did this with some washboards I made for our Helms 24 and the epoxy seems to have penetrated a tad more than when I just slapped epoxy on bare wood.
Unless you really plan to beat the crap out of the hull, I would really consider weight to be the more important factor. The single biggest issue I have with my V12 is moving it around off the water. the CK has many more seams and a lot more stiffness. At 240lb you may not be rolling her over much, but getting her on/off the trailer, moving her through the water, and all the flips will be a lot easier if she's built light.
That said, if you abuse boats like I do... add all the glass. Then add some more. Hard to go sailing when you have the boat upside down in the build shed fixing rock/oyster/ramp/dock/beach/driveway/tree/neighborhood-cat rash.
I have a V12. 1/4" meranti hull, CNC kit. 2 layers of 6"@6oz biax on seams (inside and out), 12oz woven over exterior. I added (at original build) even more at the bottom corners as I knew I would be grinding the hull on concrete, oysters, shells, docks, and anything else that I could possibly run into or drop the boat onto. A 95lb hull now weighs 150lbs. The "extra" bought me 3 years between shiny new and "oh crap, I think that's the third layer of the ply exposed!"
The V12 had large spans of unsupported hull that you stand on. Much larger than the CK17. The ONLY time that hull flexed before glassing was on the stand. Still flexes on the stand with all the extra glass. But only on the stand. On the water... no flex. Consider that the bench structures on the CK add SIGNIFICANT stiffening and there will be very little opportunity for flexing.
Glass provides no waterproofing. The key to solid waterproofing is the "neat" coat of epoxy you apply BEFORE glassing. The glass holds epoxy, but it isn't really providing the waterproofing of the wood. I've been told that to get the best water resistance, apply a neat (no additives) layer of epoxy to your ply the evening before glassing. support the epoxy on some spacers, cover the upper side and the edges wiping away drips, let it get a bit past tackey then flip the part and do it again. As I understand it, doing this later in the day tends to pull the epoxy into the wood as the air in the wood will contract slightly as it cools with ambient air temps. I did this with some washboards I made for our Helms 24 and the epoxy seems to have penetrated a tad more than when I just slapped epoxy on bare wood.
Unless you really plan to beat the crap out of the hull, I would really consider weight to be the more important factor. The single biggest issue I have with my V12 is moving it around off the water. the CK has many more seams and a lot more stiffness. At 240lb you may not be rolling her over much, but getting her on/off the trailer, moving her through the water, and all the flips will be a lot easier if she's built light.
That said, if you abuse boats like I do... add all the glass. Then add some more. Hard to go sailing when you have the boat upside down in the build shed fixing rock/oyster/ramp/dock/beach/driveway/tree/neighborhood-cat rash.
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Re: CK17 build thread
Prepping the daggerboard case for assembly
Re: CK17 build thread
String I would follow Jacques lamination schedule for fiberglassing. Unless you are planning to run yoour Ck17 up on reefs there is no need for a second layer of glass on the bottom. I agree with Jaysen apply a thin coat of epoxy to the bottom before applying the fiberglass. Your boat will be totally waterproof after applying the primer and paint. You can also apply 6oz biax up the sides to protect them if you want. Good luck on your build.
Tom
Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978
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Re: CK17 build thread
Glued the cleats to the seat frames
Daggerboard box glued up
Daggerboard box glued up
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OnlineJaysen
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Re: CK17 build thread
you're doing the dagger over the centerboard? mind sharing the logic on that? I've been planning the center (if I ever get to start the build) since I won't see things before I hit them. I'm thinking that Using shock cord on the CB will let me "bounce over" vs the hard stop I get with the dagger on the v12.
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Re: CK17 build thread
The daggerboard option is the standard for this plan and should kick up by design unless you really hit something hard. Also the centerboard version takes up some real estate in the aft cockpit and I also didn't feel like messing with lead for the centerboard weight.Jaysen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:51 pm you're doing the dagger over the centerboard? mind sharing the logic on that? I've been planning the center (if I ever get to start the build) since I won't see things before I hit them. I'm thinking that Using shock cord on the CB will let me "bounce over" vs the hard stop I get with the dagger on the v12.
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Re: CK17 build thread
She's starting to look like an actual boat!!
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