Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

After getting the plans for the CK17 over 15 years ago I'm finally in a place where I can start building. Drove over to Boat Builder Central yesterday and picked up all of my marine ply, glass and epoxy. Should be laying out and cutting panels tomorrow. Wish me luck!!

Picture didn't upload in the last post. Hopefully much more to come over the next few weeks.

This is next on my build list (assume the boss ever approves). Looking forward to seeing how you do it!

I'm taking the next three weeks off. Hopefully I'll have the hull assembled and glassed in by then and hopefully the paint and rigging shortly after I get back in town. I'll have a week off before I go on vacation and another week or so off after that before I go back to work thru Christmas.

Laid out the dimensions for the hull bottom on the 12mm Meranti.



Got a new toy to help with the build process



Will be using the new bandsaw to rip 2x6 material into battens to mark the curves and to make 1x2s for the cleats and to rip material to laminate the spars and to rough shape the spar taper

Don't know what is going on with my images. I tried using both my google storage and amazon storge share links. it worked yesterday to imbed the image, but neither source is working today when I put the share link between the boxes like it did yesterday. you can right click the image and open it in a new tab to view them however.

If you look at the post that worked (use edit) the URL is ugly long compared to your most recent post. That leads me to believe you have the wrong URL in your newer post.

Of particular not is the auth=no parameter. Google may be rejecting embedded request without that parameter existing.

Let's try this again

Laying out the forward cockpit seat frames / stringers



Laying out the hull sides



First pieces cut, forward cockpit seat frames / stringers. Much more cutting to come tomorrow

got all the panels laid out and cut out all the panels for the 6mm and 9mm Okoume. Will be fiberglass splicing the hull side panels and bottom panels tomorrow

Pictures not showing up for me

Me either. Tom

test

I see that one

I think I have the pic situation resolved. apparently you need to be logged into a google account in order to see the pics I have stored on my google drive. I'm going to upload the pics so far here and continue with this method going forward

Laid out the hull side panels, getting ready to fiberglass splice them together

Dot the glass laid down on the side panel seams

Got the fiberglass splices on the hull sides done



The white areas here are not air bubbles but glare from the overhead light

Splicing the hull buttom

Did you put a little thickened epoxy between the panels when you butted the splices together? That would have been just before putting the fiberglass on.

piperdown wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:57 pm Did you put a little thickened epoxy between the panels when you butted the splices together? That would have been just before putting the fiberglass on.

Neither the tutorial on this page or the plans call for doing that. The gap was less than 1/16 inch and was filled with epoxy when priming the joint so I did not butt t hem together with thickened epoxy. the splices are extremely strong.

Made full sized patterns for the rudder parts out of poster board

string1824 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:02 pm

piperdown wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:57 pm Did you put a little thickened epoxy between the panels when you butted the splices together? That would have been just before putting the fiberglass on.

Neither the tutorial on this page or the plans call for doing that. The gap was less than 1/16 inch and was filled with epoxy when priming the joint so I did not butt t hem together with thickened epoxy. the splices are extremely strong.

The proper way to butt panels is to prewet them and bond them with peanut butter.

If you have the tapes on both sides and no seam bonding, I would recommend you try to get some epoxy into the seam. Probably a couple ways.. get a tiny bit of epoxy resin and thicken it and then close one side of the open seam. Let it cure and inject clear epoxy into the other side. Or you can stress the seam a wee bit and see if it is stable enough. You said you believe some got in.

I have never heard of making a seam without putty...a lot depends on the hulls design and reinforcements..but in a large boat like mine, the seams are all closed on a foam hull with clear epoxy.

I am curious about the tutorial omission more than anything. Do you have a reference?

I found the tutorial and it is a bit short on needed details.

https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... -panel.pdf

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:30 am I found the tutorial and it is a bit short on needed details.

https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... -panel.pdf

I'll drop a line to the BBC folks and ask them to clarify here and in the Toot. For the record, I think the thickened material is what JM suggests even with the puzzle joints. I messed them up and he gently chastised me for not following the directions.

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:30 am I found the tutorial and it is a bit short on needed details.

https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... -panel.pdf

I thought the same thing. I know I got a good amount of epoxy in the seam. there were no air bubbles under the glass at the seam, and when I flipped the panels over after the first side cured there was epoxy all through the other side of the seam and a little on the panel flats that I had to sand before glassing the second side. The seams are also going to be covered with another layer of glass during hull assembly so I'm not too worried about it.

string1824 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:40 am

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:30 am I found the tutorial and it is a bit short on needed details.

https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... -panel.pdf

I thought the same thing. I know I got a good amount of epoxy in the seam. there were no air bubbles under the glass at the seam, and when I flipped the panels over after the first side cured there was epoxy all through the other side of the seam and a little on the panel flats that I had to sand before glassing the second side. The seams are also going to be covered with another layer of glass during hull assembly so I'm not too worried about it.

The epoxy run through is actually not ideal. Both for material usage and for strength. Also, there is the idea that straight epoxy is brittle while wood flour or silica thickened epoxy is more flexible adding strength. For the CK17 this isn't a problem for hull pannels as the glass will more than make up for the straight epoxy. The problem with hull panels will be on the larger/faster boats that will have huge forces (some of them impact from waves) on these joints.

Make sure you use thickened epoxy in any joint that will loaded heavily. Mast partners, centerboard trunk, oarlock areas, transom layers, etc. That elasticity really will be important over time. Or if you sail like I do (which is stupidly).

Jaysen wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:36 am

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:30 am I found the tutorial and it is a bit short on needed details.

https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... -panel.pdf

I'll drop a line to the BBC folks and ask them to clarify here and in the Toot. For the record, I think the thickened material is what JM suggests even with the puzzle joints. I messed them up and he gently chastised me for not following the directions.

The really important thing is to prewet and also to leave enough space in the seam for putty.

I inadvertently tested this once. I had ash panels cut for the sacrificial timbers on the Skoota, but they were short. So needed to butt to make it easier to laminate a stack. Well, I skipped prewetting and sure as he!!, the parts broke when I went to pick them up. On inspection, I could see the dryness of the epoxy at the seam and the entire putty just broke out ez. Old wood drank the resins from the putty.

Anyhow, not to booger up this thread, but it would be good to get the tutorial edited for others.

Official reply is the thickened epoxy is not needed unless it is called out in the build notes. It won’t hurt but is not needed.

Jaysen wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:23 am Official reply is the thickened epoxy is not needed unless it is called out in the build notes. It won’t hurt but is not needed.

Thanks for all your assistance and work to look into this. The sides are going to have a layer of cloth over the seams and the bottom will have two layers of cloth covering it and I'm going to add a layer of cloth on the hull bottom on the inside not called for in the plans but it will make me feel better. It should be plenty strong. the rest of the assemblies (rudder parts, centerboard, dagger box etc) will be glued together with thickened epoxy.

The big thing is stick to the build notes for minimum glue up and lamination. Your additional layers will add strength (and weight) but the original layup should be adequate.

What makes you feel the extra glass is needed?

Not attempting to talk you out of it but some folks forget how carefully Jacques designed these boats. I added extra glass to mine and pay the price every time I launch/retrieve. That said I tend to eat glass off the bottom of my hull through normal (for me) use.

Jaysen wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:10 pm The big thing is stick to the build notes for minimum glue up and lamination. Your additional layers will add strength (and weight) but the original layup should be adequate.

What makes you feel the extra glass is needed?

Not attempting to talk you out of it but some folks forget how carefully Jacques designed these boats. I added extra glass to mine and pay the price every time I launch/retrieve. That said I tend to eat glass off the bottom of my hull through normal (for me) use.

It's really more about longevity and better waterproofing. . . That and I'm 225 lbs and a little added strength in the bottom for when I'm standing on the bottom makes me feel better. I' will be glassing the seat tops too.

I might be trying to suggest to you that you consider rethinking the extra glass.

I have a V12. 1/4" meranti hull, CNC kit. 2 layers of 6"@6oz biax on seams (inside and out), 12oz woven over exterior. I added (at original build) even more at the bottom corners as I knew I would be grinding the hull on concrete, oysters, shells, docks, and anything else that I could possibly run into or drop the boat onto. A 95lb hull now weighs 150lbs. The "extra" bought me 3 years between shiny new and "oh crap, I think that's the third layer of the ply exposed!"

The V12 had large spans of unsupported hull that you stand on. Much larger than the CK17. The ONLY time that hull flexed before glassing was on the stand. Still flexes on the stand with all the extra glass. But only on the stand. On the water... no flex. Consider that the bench structures on the CK add SIGNIFICANT stiffening and there will be very little opportunity for flexing.

Glass provides no waterproofing. The key to solid waterproofing is the "neat" coat of epoxy you apply BEFORE glassing. The glass holds epoxy, but it isn't really providing the waterproofing of the wood. I've been told that to get the best water resistance, apply a neat (no additives) layer of epoxy to your ply the evening before glassing. support the epoxy on some spacers, cover the upper side and the edges wiping away drips, let it get a bit past tackey then flip the part and do it again. As I understand it, doing this later in the day tends to pull the epoxy into the wood as the air in the wood will contract slightly as it cools with ambient air temps. I did this with some washboards I made for our Helms 24 and the epoxy seems to have penetrated a tad more than when I just slapped epoxy on bare wood.

Unless you really plan to beat the crap out of the hull, I would really consider weight to be the more important factor. The single biggest issue I have with my V12 is moving it around off the water. the CK has many more seams and a lot more stiffness. At 240lb you may not be rolling her over much, but getting her on/off the trailer, moving her through the water, and all the flips will be a lot easier if she's built light.

That said, if you abuse boats like I do... add all the glass. Then add some more. Hard to go sailing when you have the boat upside down in the build shed fixing rock/oyster/ramp/dock/beach/driveway/tree/neighborhood-cat rash.

Prepping the daggerboard case for assembly

String I would follow Jacques lamination schedule for fiberglassing. Unless you are planning to run yoour Ck17 up on reefs there is no need for a second layer of glass on the bottom. I agree with Jaysen apply a thin coat of epoxy to the bottom before applying the fiberglass. Your boat will be totally waterproof after applying the primer and paint. You can also apply 6oz biax up the sides to protect them if you want. Good luck on your build.

Tom

Glued the cleats to the seat frames




Daggerboard box glued up

you're doing the dagger over the centerboard? mind sharing the logic on that? I've been planning the center (if I ever get to start the build) since I won't see things before I hit them. I'm thinking that Using shock cord on the CB will let me "bounce over" vs the hard stop I get with the dagger on the v12.

Jaysen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:51 pm you're doing the dagger over the centerboard? mind sharing the logic on that? I've been planning the center (if I ever get to start the build) since I won't see things before I hit them. I'm thinking that Using shock cord on the CB will let me "bounce over" vs the hard stop I get with the dagger on the v12.

The daggerboard option is the standard for this plan and should kick up by design unless you really hit something hard. Also the centerboard version takes up some real estate in the aft cockpit and I also didn't feel like messing with lead for the centerboard weight.

She's starting to look like an actual boat!!

Had to take apart what I had done because I couldn't get the sides fair with the assembly up on the platform. I ended up attaching risers to the bulkheads and setting those risers on the garage floor so the hull rocker shape could form unubstructed. hopefully I will be able to tab the hull bottom on today. I only have a few more days of home time before I go on the road for 4 weeks

That looks perfect from here

Got the hull bottom welded to the hull sides but ran out of time to go any further. Will be on the road for the next 4 weeks before I am able to get back on the CK17

Nice!! Jeff

It's not possible to tell for sure from the photo, but it looks like you applied the peanut butter mixture directly to dry plywood. When you're gluing two pieces of ply together (and this goes double for edges) you need to apply a straight coat of epoxy to the wood first, then follow with the thickened epoxy mixture. The plywood will suck the epoxy into the fibers, so when you apply the thickened mix it will retain its strength. You may have done that, hard to tell.

You seem to be working neatly, which will save you trouble smoothing surfaces later. Nice to see another CK17 build!

The surfaces were primed wit straight epoxy before the peanut butter was applied. Sorry for the long delay in updates. I was on the road for about 5 weeks, and then as soon as I got back I went on an 11 day cruise which turned into a 14 day cruise because Hurricane Ian made it impossible for the ship to return to port and a lot of yard cleanup from Ian to deal with when I made it back home.

I got the bow and transom seams glass taped, and have 2 layers of 1/4" x 1 1/2" spruce laminated for the rub rail glued in place. Will have a total of 4 layers laminated for the rub rail.

Finished the 4 layers for the rubrail, ended up being about 1.25" thick. I ground the radius along the chine and then glassed them over with 2 layers of 12oz biaxial tape. Now I am getting ready to glass the hull. it will be one layer o f6oz cloth down the middle, and 6oz cloth overlapping the center by about 12 inches and going up the full side of the hull.

Outside of the hull is glassed in, ground reasonably smooth, skeg attached and glassed in and ground smooth. N ext step is to flip over and finish the inside. I didn't want to risk damaging the finish by fairing, priming and painting the outside while there was still so much to do on the inside.

Nice progress!!! Jeff

I'll be the antagonist here... finish the bottom before the flip. You will mess it up more when you try to flip it at 3x the current weight.

That said, let your fair cure, get a good finish paint and it will be hard to mess up. Even if you do nick a spot, the good paints are easy to touch up.

Jaysen wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:41 pm I'll be the antagonist here... finish the bottom before the flip. You will mess it up more when you try to flip it at 3x the current weight.

I agree that fear of nicks is not a good enough reason to wait on the bottom finish. If you just plain don't want to do it now, that's fine, you're not the first, but if it's just nicks you're worried about, I'd go ahead. Esp if the bottom is going to be graphite/epoxy, which I happen to like.

I think Dan S did his bottom before the flip but not the sides, which may be a good compromise. It means you don't need to flip again, but the sides, which are most vulnerable, can be done later.

I appreciate the input. Unfortunately I was in the garage flipping the hull over as these replies were being written

After being on the road to finish 2022 and recovering from pneumonia. I finally got back to the CK17 build 2 weeks ago. I was able to glass in the inside chine, bow and transom seams. I cut drainage holes in the middle 2 bulkheads because it will live its life right side up on a trailer and connected them with PVC that I split down the middle so I can have mostly watertight lockers on either side of the dagger box. I also have glassed in all frames. It's finally starting to look like an actual boat!!

Reinforced the transom for the outboard kicker bracket. assembled the mast steps, and trimmed to fir the seat tops and the foredeck.

Coming along nicely!

That's a good size boat to have fun and handle easily, but big enough to take somebody along. I didn't go back and look, but have you sourced your sails yet?

I have not sourced the sails per se. I am going to make them out of white heavy duty poly tarp, reinforced with dacron line.

Poured the floatation foam, got around 12 cubic feet total.

I like what you did with the foam! You get the flotation and not have the worry of soaked foam the way you did it, smart move.

Painted the inside of the storage compartment and the underside of the seat tops and started gluing the seat tops to the framing.

Sorry for the delay in posts. I have been out on the road and only have about 1 week every 2 months to work on the boat. I got the seat tops bonded in and carved the dagger board and the rudder.

I am finally finished with the construction of the hull. Still need to finish sealing, fairing and painting, and of course all of the fiddly bits for rigging etc. I pulled it out into the driveway to see how it looked in the sun. I can't believe it but it is actually starting to look like a real boat!!!

Unfortunately I am getting ready togo back on the road for about the next 7 or 8 weeks so I won't be able to get back to it until then