Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

I’ve read a few different approaches here. Some people swear by just running the cable through the boat. Some say run it through some type of conduit. I’ve read some people say conduits just hold moisture and can degrade the wiring even faster.

Does anyone have any recomendaciones?

You have to take into consideration on where the wiring will run. Under a sole, then you would need conduit to make it easy to route and if you ever need to make wiring repairs. If you don't need the wiring to run under the sole, then you can run it through ribs/frames and secure the wiring between frames/ribs per the AYBC standards. You also want to use marine grade wiring to reduce corrosion. Water can "wick" down any unsealed opening in the wire and start corroding over time, in conduit or not. Once it happens, the whole length of wire needs replacing.

In a marine environment, moisture will find weak spots whether it is down a pipe or under a deck/gunnel. Good wiring practices when building the wiring connects and routing it takes time during the build but pays off when you don't have to fight corroded wiring a few months of operation.

Conduit allows connections every 4'.

Bare wires must be connected every 18" to the boat.

The basic rule of thumb in wiring is shorter runs are always best. Why? Longer runs require thicker wires. Thicker wires are very expensive, harder to work with...

Minimum gauge wire for a boat after device
Pigtails is 16.

MageDK here is a all the information you need to determine what wire size you need for everything on your TW28. https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437 When you measure a circuit length it is both to and back to the power source or negative ground bar. Hope this helps you. Like fallguy says the shorter the better but that is not always possible.

Tom

Thanks for all the info, but it's not really the wire guage or length of the runs that concern me. I'm a pretty fair hand when it comes to electronics. I've never done electronics on a boat before so I was worrying more about the marine environment specifics. Are there any special tricks to keeping the wires from corroding faster than they do on land? Any special type of conduit materials or wire connectors?

Are there any special tricks to keeping the wires from corroding faster than they do on land? Any special type of conduit materials or wire connectors?

Good crimping tools, don't over strip the wire ends, use heat shrink terminals that also have the glue inside them to seal the bare wire to the insulation of the wire. The marine grade wires are all tinned and the crimp will help seal the ends at the terminals and helps prevent the moisture from wicking down the wire. Use a good terminal sealer/anti corrosion spray at all terminals and if possible, add a dip in the wires before the terminal to keep moisture from following the wires to the terminals. Where there is a wire gauge size difference, like a small gauge wire for a radio to a larger gauge wire, use terminal blocks (buss bars) instead of butt connectors. Avoid having buss bars and terminal blocks in areas where moisture can collect like the bilge or near a scupper.

Keep in mind that voltage drop in DC circuits are more critical when it comes to marine application. I think the standard for bilge pumps, VHF radios and such, is 5% drop and all other circuits is 10%, so wire gauge is important.

Some people use dielectric grease inside their crimps, but it is a mistake.

Just use all tinned wire, all tinned fittings, a ratcheting high quality crimper, heat shrink all connections.

OrangeQuest the drops allowed are 3% not 5% for critical items and 10% for all others. See my post above. Tom

Are you building this boat or just quizzing us on how? Running wires is a LONG way down the road for a TW28 build!

TomW1 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:39 am OrangeQuest the drops allowed are 3% not 5% for critical items and 10% for all others. See my post above. Tom

It's been a few years since I calculated, ordered and ran my wiring...I couldn't remember the critical number. I used Bluesea's app to do it and rounded up the amps to my electric loads. Once I flip the hull back over I will need to order some electrical supplies to complete my build.

cape man wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:01 am Are you building this boat or just quizzing us on how? Running wires is a LONG way down the road for a TW28 build!

Agreed. It takes us quite a bit of time to answer if a person is not serious..

My boat did not come with an electrical plan and it took me more time to create one, but I hope what I did was decent.

cape man wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:01 am Are you building this boat or just quizzing us on how? Running wires is a LONG way down the road for a TW28 build!

I agree also. It has been nearly two months now and while I applaud your due diligence, I believe it is time to start building this boat. Keep us posted and take lots of pictures. Ask questions as they come up closer to the time you need them. I hope you are copying the answers you are getting now. I am sure you will have lots more over the 3-5 years it will take you to splash her. Good luck on your build.

Tom

Hey, don't get me wrong. Great to ask as many questions here as you want and everyone here will help. It's just that wiring is one of the last things and depending on what you build it can get complicated.
Simple answer is everything in conduits if possible, marine grade wires and terminals and shrink terminals.

Noone here is keen on bustin your chops for q&a. We all like helping builders and supporting the work.

Some aspects of boat building end up using a lot of creativity. This is time you spend, off your feet, with a notepad.

Very rarely are designs specified down to minute details.

The tw28 is probably a 6000 hour boat, maybe 3000 workboat finishes, minimalist. All things, like adding an inverter, add time.

You gotta love conduit!

I agree with fallguy we are not busting your chops, please ask all the questions you want. If you notice in the study plans there in the list of included plans and drawings, there is also an electrical one it is very basic but will help you. Buy the plans if you have not done so already, study them and buy the kit plywood for the hull and start there. Take it one step at a time so you do not get overwhelmed.

Like fallguy shows when the time comes before you lay the deck down put conduit in for all the systems you need, electrical, steering, engine. All should be in conduit. Use wide electrical elbows when making a turn if needed and holes in the center of the frames and stringers.

Tom






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TomW1 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:38 pm I agree with fallguy we are not busting your chops, please ask all the questions you want. If you notice in the study plans there in the list of included plans and drawings, there is also an electrical one it is very basic but will help you. Buy the plans if you have not done so already, study them and buy the kit plywood for the hull and start there. Take it one step at a time so you do not get overwhelmed.

Like fallguy shows when the time comes before you lay the deck down put conduit in for all the systems you need, electrical, steering, engine. All should be in conduit. Use wide electrical elbows when making a turn if needed and holes in the center of the frames and stringers.

Tom

Very little of the electrical in the TW28 needs to go under the sole. Battery locker can be above the sole with a side door for access. The engine compartment needs to obviously get wired to the ignition circuitry. But putting that in conduit is a lot of trouble for the TW28.

There should be access hatches for wire runs. And I don't agree with lots of conduits in the boat because the TW28 needs accesible pathways for wiring. Fishing all the wires is not fun..takes two people..

I have a couple of wire chases in my boat, but only about 8.5 feet of 3" or 4" pvc conduit and two corrugated 2.5" conduits about 4' long, both are for outside runs not in the boat, and a 3' piece on the windshield. The TW28 would not have any outside runs except solar maybe.

You cannot pass wires through fiberglass holes because the glass can cut the cable jacket. So all my wires pass through pvc reliefs when going through bulkheads. The lack of conduit means more cable ties and more support. I use the weld mount system. It is spendy, but I trust it.

fallguy you're wrong the ABYC requires much more and that is all I will say until and if he starts building this boat. Tom

TomW1 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:24 pm fallguy you're wrong the ABYC requires much more and that is all I will say until and if he starts building this boat. Tom

My opinion is not wrong. It is my opinion. ABYC is clear on it. Conduit or chases must be connected every 4', 18" on wires not in conduits, so my opinion requires more work, but beats fishing 22 wires through a 3" conduit to go 6 feet.

And believe it or not, I am entitled to my opinion.

Now and then Tom, realize that people offer different opinions. There is little reason to run engine harness wires in the tw28 in conduit unless access is difficult.

Concept is simple.

Access-no conduit.

No access-conduit.

Exposure to water-conduit.

All I said is if you have access; it is easier than conduit. Get over it. All this and the guy is probably not even gonna build.

mageDK are you serious about building the TW28 or not. If not quit wasting our time. Have you ever built one of Jacques smaller boats, so you know the stitch and glue process. I do not see you responding after we answer your questions': doh: Your very welcome here and welcome to ask all the questions you want as long as you have purchased the plans and are serious about building the TW28. It will be a huge commitment in both time and resources.

Tom

mageDK are you serious about building the TW28 or not. If not quit wasting our time. Have you ever built one of Jacques smaller boats, so you know the stitch and glue process. I do not see you responding after we answer your questions': doh: Your very welcome here and welcome to ask all the questions you want as long as you have purchased the plans and are serious about building the TW28. It will be a huge commitment in both time and resources.

Tom

TomW1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:22 pm mageDK are you serious about building the TW28 or not. If not quit wasting our time. Have you ever built one of Jacques smaller boats, so you know the stitch and glue process. I do not see you responding after we answer your questions': doh: Your very welcome here and welcome to ask all the questions you want as long as you have purchased the plans and are serious about building the TW28. It will be a huge commitment in both time and resources.

Tom

I was out of town for a few days so don't take it as such a negative if I don't respond right away. If you feel like your time is being wasted, then don't feel compelled to answer. I am serious about building the boat. I have purchased the plans and I am ordering the materials I need to start working on the Hull jig in the next week or two. I am also working on organizing a project plan from start to finish, so if I ask a few questions about steps down the road it's because I have some legitimate questions and I am spending a lot of time researching different methods for many different aspects of the build.

Thanks to everyone for all the information

All good. We are here for you. It was just such a long term question that I reacted to. Sorry. I so want to see you build this boat!

Wiring is just almost the last thing and will totally be dependent on what you ultimately build . Promise not to be cruel again.

Yep, don't take my response as negative we will all be here for you as you build your boat. Start a thread down to post progress and post pictures in Builders Power Boats and ask your questions here and all will go be good. Tom and good luck.

MageDK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:59 pm

TomW1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:22 pm mageDK are you serious about building the TW28 or not. If not quit wasting our time. Have you ever built one of Jacques smaller boats, so you know the stitch and glue process. I do not see you responding after we answer your questions': doh: Your very welcome here and welcome to ask all the questions you want as long as you have purchased the plans and are serious about building the TW28. It will be a huge commitment in both time and resources.

Tom

I was out of town for a few days so don't take it as such a negative if I don't respond right away. If you feel like your time is being wasted, then don't feel compelled to answer. I am serious about building the boat. I have purchased the plans and I am ordering the materials I need to start working on the Hull jig in the next week or two. I am also working on organizing a project plan from start to finish, so if I ask a few questions about steps down the road it's because I have some legitimate questions and I am spending a lot of time researching different methods for many different aspects of the build.

Thanks to everyone for all the information

MageDK, you have to realize that some of the members on here spend their time trolling this forum looking for questions that they can answer to prove just how much they know about the subject. They value that time so much they can't use to much of it to even review the questions being asked to give a correct answer at times. They value their own opinion so much that they will just tell someone else they are wrong without references or links to back it up and prove their own opinion. Don't let their narcissist behavior discourage you from posting questions.

Even though my little FS14 isn't the investment of time and money you will need to put into this size of boat, I asked thousands of questions before I even bought the plans, and I am still asking questions. I think before I screwed up my first account on here and started over, I was over 3000 posts and didn't have the first sheet of plywood yet. I am a what if person and I think some on here have bets on if my boat will even float once it's finished...I maybe one of them!

Most of the builders here are more than happy to answer questions and give you good references that you can find some of the answers yourself. At this point of your build, there are a lot more questions you don't even know to ask yet. There are a few books out there about marine wiring and other things needed to complete and finish a boat, you should look into buying a few of them and start studying. There is a used bookstore that you can pick up good, used books on marine subjects and they are maybe useful now and later on.
www.thriftbooks.com

I will let the experts tell you which books you should get.

Hi

If you have read my posts you will know I am not an expert.... I am learning as I go. It is hard work learning a new trade at 61 but greatly rewarding and when it gets to you have a beer or three !!!

I do not know if this will help but I have drawn to scale a plan of my LB26 and completed my own electrical drawing. I then contacted a marine electrical contractor back in the UK, I explained my situation and agreed to send him the details. He is now going to produce a "proper drawing"
a Specification and a list of all materials including wire gauges etc, yes it will cost me a little but electric's is something I really want to get right.

My only other tip for you that I can give at the moment is make very sure you cost the project out carefully, the costs as I found out can be quite frightening........

But if you are up for it go for it, there is one hell of a great feeling when you stand back at the end of the day with a beer and look at what you have achieved.

Last but not least, keep asking questions, the guys have been a saviour to me.

Cheers

Les

les2021 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:54 am Hi

If you have read my posts you will know I am not an expert.... I am learning as I go. It is hard work learning a new trade at 61 but greatly rewarding and when it gets to you have a beer or three !!!

I do not know if this will help but I have drawn to scale a plan of my LB26 and completed my own electrical drawing. I then contacted a marine electrical contractor back in the UK, I explained my situation and agreed to send him the details. He is now going to produce a "proper drawing"
a Specification and a list of all materials including wire gauges etc, yes it will cost me a little but electric's is something I really want to get right.

My only other tip for you that I can give at the moment is make very sure you cost the project out carefully, the costs as I found out can be quite frightening........

But if you are up for it go for it, there is one hell of a great feeling when you stand back at the end of the day with a beer and look at what you have achieved.

Last but not least, keep asking questions, the guys have been a saviour to me.

Cheers

Les

thanks. that's a great idea. I never thought about consulting a marine electrical contractor to "Finalize" the plans up with. I might give that a try once I get the basic outlines and requirements. I know my boat build is going to be a little heavy on the electronics as I want to be able to have a fairly hefty battery bank and plenty of electronics to be able to stay off grid for a week or two at a time.

I took a picture of one of my runs. This is fuel, hydraulic steering, electrical, all in a bundle attached at 18" or less. I used pvc for bulkhead bushings and used Black Mamba FHG for adhesive as per Richard, aka Aripeka Angler. Epoxy did not work to hold pvc.

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:41 am I took a picture of one of my runs. This is fuel, hydraulic steering, electrical, all in a bundle attached at 18" or less.

A083820D-B16A-4089-9372-3EE0084C464E.jpeg

Dan nice picture but what is the top clear line and the black line with the brass fitting on it? Tom

TomW1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:44 am

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:41 am I took a picture of one of my runs. This is fuel, hydraulic steering, electrical, all in a bundle attached at 18" or less.

A083820D-B16A-4089-9372-3EE0084C464E.jpeg

Dan nice picture but what is the top clear line and the black line with the brass fitting on it? Tom

Clear line is gutter drains to overboard.

Brass fitting lines are hydraulic steering.

Okay thanks where is the gas line then. Sorry to be asking so many questions. Tom

TomW1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:21 pm Okay thanks where is the gas line then. Sorry to be asking so many questions. Tom

Gas line is in the bundle. Just like going through the rigging grommet.

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:29 pm

TomW1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:21 pm Okay thanks where is the gas line then. Sorry to be asking so many questions. Tom

Gas line is in the bundle. Just like going through the rigging grommet.

Dan the fuel line must be separated from anything thing that can chafe or create a spark. That means it must be separated from the brass fitting and electrical wires. The brass fitting should also not be in the bundle as it can chafe the electrical wires. You probably can't do anything about it now but keep a close watch on wear and tear of that brass fitting on the wires and fuel hose. Maybe wrap in some kind of tape. Hope the inspection went well today. Tom

I can wrap those fittings with electrical tape. Thanks.