Pamet FS14

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by OrangeQuest »

PametBW wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:53 am
Thanks OrangeQuest. I hope that your two coats of primer went well. Is this a boat you are building now and do you have a build thread?
The primer seems to have stuck!! Lite sanding today, wash down and tucked away waiting for the morning to cast new hope on her. I do have a build thread but you should wait till you finish your boat to check it out. Mine will give you bad ideas!
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
A. A. Milne

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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:19 pm
PametBW wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:53 am
Thanks OrangeQuest. I hope that your two coats of primer went well. Is this a boat you are building now and do you have a build thread?
The primer seems to have stuck!! Lite sanding today, wash down and tucked away waiting for the morning to cast new hope on her. I do have a build thread but you should wait till you finish your boat to check it out. Mine will give you bad ideas!
Glad that the primer stuck.
Waiting to see your thread is probably wise. I find that I get lost in these threads, in more ways than one. There are so many tactics that seem like great ideas it makes my head spin a little, added to the volume of threads and posts that make it difficult to find my way back to a great idea that fleetingly captured my fancy... Posting pics along with plans for the next step... and listening to the words of wisdom from the forum seems like the simplest and wisest approach.

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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Filling in the gaps and adding fillets to the outside seams ended up being a multi-step process.
The first step, filling in the gaps, went pretty smoothly
Adding fillets for the purpose of having a wider angle for the cloth to lay on was my first target. With this as the target, I applied two layers.
In the rear-view mirror, that was ill conceived (NOT Ill-advised because what I did was in conflict with what was advised).
The advice of Pee Wee and Fuzz are both evidence of that. The advice was basically that I should be removing material to achieve more rounded angles, NOT adding material. Sorry about the failure to follow advice. It was not pig-headedness. Somehow I had a vision that prevented me from absorbing the recommendations. Another lesson learned the hard way (although not too hard).
Ultimately, working with a rasp I removed almost all the material that I had added (along with some wood that I gouged out).
The rasp worked better than the ROSander for me. It removed a lot of material in a fairly organized way. I like using hand tools. After doing most of the work with the rasp, I did put some 80 grit on the sander and smooth it all out a bit more.
I did go out and buy a respirator, which I used diligently.
In the future, I would like to try a router for this step. I have only used one to put shiplap edges on boards - so a lot to learn before I let a router anywhere near a boat.
Here are some pics of the boat as it sits this evening.
rasped fillets centerline.jpg
rasped fillets centerline.jpg (101.02 KiB) Viewed 588 times
Fwd starboard.jpg
Fwd starboard.jpg (98.87 KiB) Viewed 588 times
Fwd port.jpg
Fwd port.jpg (99.75 KiB) Viewed 588 times
Aft starboard.jpg
Aft starboard.jpg (89.83 KiB) Viewed 588 times
Aft port.jpg
Aft port.jpg (91.3 KiB) Viewed 588 times
My plan is to put fiberglass tape on the seams later in the week - after I head down to Cape Cod to take apart some windows and replace broken balances.
bad sense of humor.jpg
bad sense of humor.jpg (112.09 KiB) Viewed 588 times

Fuzz
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Fuzz »

Boat is looking good. If it were me I would try to round over those edges a little more before trying to lay glass over them. At this point you want the glass to lay down and around easily. Later on after all the glass is on you can sharpen up the edges if you want to do so.
That is some funny stuff right there with the glasses. Me thinks you are going to do just fine here :D

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Thanks Fuzz.
The edges do seem sharp, but I was reluctant to keep going after them because it will require removing some wood.
Your advice makes perfect sense and gives me the confidence to keep going.
From other threads it seems like I need to take to heart the idea that this will be a wood core boat as opposed to a wooden boat.
Now my plan is to continue with the rasp and sander, unless someone points out a flaw in this idea.
I will post pics again before I start taping the seams.
This process is both challenging and interesting and I really enjoy the support from you guys.
Thanks again!

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by OrangeQuest »

Everywhere that is dark in your epoxy filler needs to be the matching lite because when you tape those low dark areas will have air pockets trapped below the tape.
Also, remember to find all those glasses before laying the cloth because they will cause very big air pockets. And you will need the glasses to see the air pockets! :lol:
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
A. A. Milne

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Thanks OrangeQuest. That is a really clear target that is easy to visualize. I really appreciate the concrete advice; it makes it easy to look forward to getting out in the shop.

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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

After a trip to repair some window balance ropes in a cottage on Cape Cod, I got a chance to re-examine the hull of the FS-14.
My inclination was to think it was previously ready for tape along the seams.
The advice about what needed to be done beforehand really set me straight and I am grateful.
There are several things that I learned along the way:
-It is helpful for me to think of the boat as a wood-core fiberglass boat.
-Getting the edges rounded for tape requires removing material, as opposed to adding more putty and shaping it. This was counterintuitive to me and I am very grateful to have been set straight.
-A rasp is no longer my favorite tool for removing material. A random orbital sander with 60 grit discs is my favorite tool with a couple of 40 grit discs used judiciously...
Here are a few pics to show what it looks like; I believe that it is now ready for tape.
Tape now bow.jpg
Tape now bow.jpg (97.72 KiB) Viewed 494 times
To my eye, the bow has come together nicely. The tip regarding the darker (low) spots turning into air bubbles struck fear into my heart and gave me the confidence to be much more agressive than I had been earlier.
tape now starboard.jpg
tape now starboard.jpg (99.72 KiB) Viewed 494 times
tape now port.jpg
tape now port.jpg (90.81 KiB) Viewed 494 times
Those pics give a reasonably clear view of what the seams look like now, but I have three questions:
Along the seams there are some very small voids, I see them as little "pinhole" areas. I am inclined to think they will be filled in with epoxy during the next step, which would mean that I don't need to worry about them. Should I fill them with putty and grind it down again before taping the seams?
Obviously, the holes for the "stitches" are empty, should I fill them with putty before proceding?
tape now pinholes.jpg
tape now pinholes.jpg (102.52 KiB) Viewed 494 times
The chine (angle between the transom and the bottom) appears to be a right angle. I have tried to round the edge, but wonder - Is there anything else that I need to do in this area?
tape now stern.jpg
tape now stern.jpg (72.36 KiB) Viewed 494 times
My next step will be to follow advice from this forum, whether that is one step forward or two steps back...
Thanks!

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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by joe2700 »

PametBW wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:49 pm
Those pics give a reasonably clear view of what the seams look like now, but I have three questions:
Along the seams there are some very small voids, I see them as little "pinhole" areas. I am inclined to think they will be filled in with epoxy during the next step, which would mean that I don't need to worry about them. Should I fill them with putty and grind it down again before taping the seams?
Obviously, the holes for the "stitches" are empty, should I fill them with putty before proceding?
The chine (angle between the transom and the bottom) appears to be a right angle. I have tried to round the edge, but wonder - Is there anything else that I need to do in this area?
Thanks!
I would fill both those pinholes and the holes for the stitches. You can save yourself grinding down again though. As long as your putty is from the same system as your laminating epoxy then just put some putty on them right before you apply your tapes. The tapes will flatten the putty right out but you won't have a void. Whenever I'm about to do a fiberglass layup if there are some minor holes or low spots on the surface I just put a dab of putty on them right before I start.

This is one example of when working wet on wet save you time. When you get to doing the inside tapes you will need to make an epoxy fillet first to radius the inside corners the same way you are sanding to radius the outside corners. Those fillets can be a total pain to sand, so I like to wait until they just get firm then immediately apply the tapes on top. No sanding in between, and you don't even have to worry about making the fillets perfect since you can massage them a little though the glass. It's a tiny bit higher pressure since you are trying to do more steps at once, but once you get comfortable I feel like you save days when you can work wet on wet instead of waiting for cure then sanding. Note I do pre wet out my tapes on a bench before applying them to the boat which makes this easy, many people like to wet out the glass in place.

I think the edge between the bottom and transom looks rounded enough, can check by just seeing how easily some glass makes the bend. Might help to just hand sand that small ridge on the corner where the 3 edges come together, the corners can be tricky because so many layers come together there.

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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Thanks Joe2700!
I would fill both those pinholes and the holes for the stitches. You can save yourself grinding down again though. As long as your putty is from the same system as your laminating epoxy then just put some putty on them right before you apply your tapes. The tapes will flatten the putty right out but you won't have a void. Whenever I'm about to do a fiberglass layup if there are some minor holes or low spots on the surface I just put a dab of putty on them right before I start.

This tip about filling the pinholes is perfect, psyched that I am using all System Three materials. I will definitely follow this guidance!

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