Pamet FS14

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Fuzz
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Fuzz »

At some corners you have no choice except to cut darts in the cloth. Lay the glass down dry and see if it will lay down good for you. If not it is not going to lay down and stay there when wet. As for laying large pieces of glass you can do it alone with a little pre-planning. It helps to have your epoxy measured and ready to go. Some folks will use two different colored cups and put hardner in one color and resin in the other. Make sure you put the correct ratio in each cup! Then you can grab one of each color, mix them, and go. After you mix the epoxy pour it out on the glass and use the roller to spread it around. It will take a little time for the glass to wet out and you can use the roller to move it around to the dry spots. Start at one end and move to the other end in steps. This way you can keep a wet edge. Where you started might be kicked before you get to the other end but it does not matter.
If you have questions please ask and the guys will help. :wink:

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by OrangeQuest »

Something like this, that the rollers can fit in to get epoxy on the roller. 3" fits one direction and the 6" fits the other. I use them just like you would use as a paint tray but use the sides to make sure the roller gets "loaded" with epoxy. And because they are flexible, after the left-over epoxy is dry, I twist them a little and hit them with compressed air and the cured epoxy pops right out.... Most the time. It is more useful for vertical epoxy/FG laying and taping verses straight out of the mixing cup/pot and pour.
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Dan_Smullen
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Dan_Smullen »

It feels good to do something better than you did it last time, for sure. Glad to offer something.

The plastic spreader is you friend! It does a great job of pushing the epoxy down into the glass. Enjoy the fun!

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

The temperature today here in southern Vermont will not get out of the 50's and the extended forecast has most nights dipping into the 30's, so I am starting to strategize what I can get done before I have to shut down progress on the FS-14.
Dan - Thank You for the reminder about the pleasure that comes with learning and growing. Building the shop, working on this boat, and getting to be part of this forum are all great fun. Thanks to all of you!
Thanks Fuzz for the advice on the corners and assembling multiple cups to support covering large areas of cloth. It is really helpful to have tips like that; it is also easier to be confident and have fun when being advised by folks who know how it feels and what is coming next...
I thought of a couple of ways to make this first effort at covering a hull with cloth easier, if not more streamlined.
The SilverTip Epoxy "Wet" stage lasts 72 hours. After putting the tape on the seams, it took me 36 hours to get back in the shop. The epoxy was not at all sticky, but I still had some trouble getting the cloth on the hull, so I used a piece of black pipe as an axle to let me unroll the cloth and pull it out above the hull and lay it down. It made me feel clever, so I am including a pic of it.
Black Pipe Axle.jpg
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A strategy that makes me feel more secure by keeping the steps small occurred to me. It will slow me down in the long run, but keeps layers inside the 72 hour windows. I covered the entire bottom of the hull with a layer of cloth and cut it. Then I picked up the transom end and folded it back over itself to expose half the bottom to be "painted" with epoxy thinking that opens a fresh 72 hour window.
Half and half.jpg
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When the epoxy is hardened or tacky, I will lift the cloth back into place. I can tell that I will need to cut darts and make folds to get it to lay flat, but will worry about that when I get there. I will then fold back the forward half of the cloth and "paint" the rest of the bottom. I expect to do this either this evening or tomorrow morning. Then I will coat the entire bottom using multiple cups (Thanks Fuzz) and rollers (Thanks OrangeQuest). I can then cover the sides from the chines to the sheers, still within the original 72 hours.
I am considering putting a small electric heater out in the shop under the hull.
I am including a pic of The Faire Eve, who ventured out into the shop this morning...
The Faire Eve.jpg
The Faire Eve.jpg (126.81 KiB) Viewed 809 times

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by OrangeQuest »

Caution on heating under the boat and epoxy on the top. As the wood hull warms it can cause bubbles to form under the cloth if the air above the hull is colder. Some of the colder weather guys can advise better. Here in Houston, I am dealing with temps still in the upper 80s and low 90s. But stop all epoxy operations if my temps will get below 60s at night.

Looking really good!
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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Fuzz
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Fuzz »

OrangeQuest is correct that warming wood will release air and cause bubbles in your glass work. In this case it should not be a problem as you have already sealed the wood with a layer of set up epoxy. I would put the heater under the hull a few hours early so the whole thing has warmed up. And leave it there until the epoxy has set if the shop temperature will be below 50f. You want the epoxy to set in a reasonable time so you do not have a lot of drain out.

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Jaysen
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Jaysen »

I put the heater under the hull at sun up and typically work at end of my day (4p). Leave heater on until next morning (or I’m done with glass). I never noticed bubbles but to Fuzz’s point I coat all my wood with epoxy long before the glass. I’m just using the heated wood to encourage the epoxy.

The concern I’ve started to have is the condensation potential when you remove heat but the epoxy isn’t fully cured. I’ll probably start leaving the heat on until full cure.
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joe2700
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by joe2700 »

I find if you glass over wood at a steady temp or slightly falling temp you get no bubbles, but don't glass while the temp is rising or you get air coming out of the wood making bubbles. So if you are heating the space then heat it early. I actually prefer to do falling temps so would overheat before glassing then turn down the heat a little while doing the work.

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VT_Jeff
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by VT_Jeff »

Hi Pamet,

I've been away from the board for a bit and missed your thread, welcome! I'm down, up, down and then up the road from you in Readsboro VT. Looks like you're well underway and the members have been taking good care of you. I'm jealous of your shop! I build in my basement which I can heat in the winter, but it's a bit of a dungeon.

Keep up the great work!

Jeff
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PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Hi Jeff! -

Thanks for the welcome (and especially for complimenting my shop). Readsboro truly is one hilly and beautiful part of Vermont - not to mention one of the snowiest ridges in New England!
This forum is an amazing community and it has added great fun to the boatbuilding process. Pretty much every step of the way has been preceded by advice and support from these guys which gives me the confidence to go on. That being said, the processof wetting out the fiberglass cloth today did spiral a little out of control. The results seem okay, but certainly not perfect.
The temperature last night stayed in the 40's, but I placed a small space heater under the hull and turned it on low just about sunrise (per Fuzz's recommendation). It was not until about noon that I was able to get out to the shop.
The cloth was already laying on the hull in a way that seemed smooth enough to get to work so I started mixing the epoxy, pouring it on the cloth, and spreading it with a 6" roller. When I got to the vertical parts I used my brand new 4" x 8" plastic tub, as advised by OrangeQuest.

One decision that I made (and now question) was to start out with one length of cloth running the length of the boat from bow to transom. It was not until I started the wetting process that I noticed the first foot or so of the cloth was sort of a tangled mess. This was the part that would match up with the sheer of the transom. I ended cutting it off and making a little bit of a mess back there. I did cut little dart-slits in the cloth so some of the cloth folded from the sides back around the corner (visible in the first pic) and made a second layer of cloth on the transom:
wetted cloth transom.jpg
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The other place that came together a little roughly was the bow. I tried to cut the cloth so that the cloth on the starboard side lined up with the bow and the port side overlapped that by a couple of inches. There are definitely a couple of little bubbles, but it looked far worse at times of the process:
wet cloth starboard side of bow.jpg
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wet cloth portside of bow.jpg
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The sides and the keel are not perfect, but look less problematic than the ends of the boat. The pics do show the imperfect shape of the 50" cloth that leaves much of the sides uncovered. It would not have been possible to get the cloth cut and installed - even if I knew the answers to the questions (below):
wet cloth keel.jpg
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wet cloth fwd starboard.jpg
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wet cloth fwd port.jpg
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The temps tonight are forecast to bottom out in the upper 40's, so I plan to repeat the Fuzz method of start the heater at sunrise and let it warm the boat and shop for a couple of hours. Then I plan to cut pieces of cloth to match the sides (which I wetted today with the roller) and complete the general process of covering the outside of the hull with cloth. I do have a couple of questions that I would love to ask:
When I put cloth on the sides, should the cloth stop at the chine or cover the seam and some of the bottom of the hull?
It seems clear to me that I will not be able to run the cloth over the sheer so it folds into the inside of the hull because gravity will pull it into a hanging position. Is that thinking correct, that I should just run the cloth to the sheer?
The third question is about what to do with the air bubbles after everything sets up, but I think I might be better off emotionally if I reserve that question for later (that is just me thinking I am funny...).
Thank You all for your help!
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wet cloth forward starboard.jpg
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