C19 with a tiller...

Ask questions before buying our plans or request a new design. Anybody can post here
Toms

C19 with a tiller...

Post by Toms »

Hi all,
I hope this is a new post. I've seen some reference in older post, but not exactly the answer or guidance I am looking for.
I love the lines of the C-19 and the freeboard is exactly what I'm looking for and really want that self bailing deck. Where my idea of my perfect boat veers off course with the C-19 is that I want a wide open deck (no console) and I want to run a larger tiller motor with an extension and grab bar to run it standing up. I'm good with the front deck for stowage (casting deck as I see it). Can anyone tell me if the rear bulkhead (front of the splash well) can be trimmed down enough to give the tiller arm room to operate - with no compromising in integrity? I do assume there is room between stern compartments to allow the motor to swing appropriately - but correct me there if I'm wrong.
Thanks!

fallguy1000
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 10198
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by fallguy1000 »

I can't answer for certain, but the beauty of a full height transom is to keep the skipper dry. Lowering the transom to allow for the tiller is in conflict.

The other problem in a larger boat is placing the helmsman aft can result in making the boat be out of trim and not afford the helsman a windscreen.

If you want to make this change to make the boat more workboat like, for net or pot pulling; I'd understand.

The c19 is really a remarkably nice boat.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

Fuzz
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 8920
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:23 am
Location: Kasilof, Alaska

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by Fuzz »

No matter what a boat is always a compromise. You just have to pick the ones that help you meet your needs. Lots of 22 foot and under around here with tillers. One nice thing is the steering is a lot quicker when needed. If a tiller meets your needs or wants I say build it that way.

TomW1
Very Active Poster
Very Active Poster
Posts: 5844
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Bryson City, NC

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by TomW1 »

Two things you need to do is buy the long shaft motor which will raise the motor from 20 to 25" and then purchase a tiller extension so that you are sitting more forward in the C19.You may stilll need to add some weight forward to balance the COG. As far as HP I would stick to a 90HP since you want a tiller and that is the lowest 25" shaft available. Both the Yamaha nd Mercury are available with tiller steering in the 90HP motor. If you do need to trim the motor well wall down keep it to a minimum it is designed to keep water that comes over the stern from entering the boat. I will warn you that with tiller steering the USCG would probably limit you to a 70-75HP for tiller steering. Ask Jacques about this or bring to Jeff's attention. I looked up the steering range of the Yaamaha and the Merc 90 for you and it is 35 degrees centerline left or right for Yamaha and Merc did not give theirs.

This is a way away, but planning is always good. For gauges you will need at the minimum a fuel and tachometer. Between these two you can determine best fuel running speed and the tach will help you determine if you have the right prop.

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

OneWayTraffic
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:13 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by OneWayTraffic »

Looking at the Cx19 plans I see no reason why it would not work with a tiller and open deck. I understand the C19 is essentially the same boat, without the cabin.

I'd move weight forward where possible, but it's a big boat and could handle some weight aft in my opinion.

Toms
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:17 am
Location: Central Pennsylvania

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by Toms »

Hi all,
Thanks for the helpful replies. Yes, I would plan to use an extended tiller and a stand up grab rail, to move my weight as far forward as possible as well as for visibility while under way. I see some grab rails where a fish finder/GPS and a few other gauges could be mounted while taking up minimal space. I also assume I should move as much "other" weight as far forward as possible, i.e. battery, bow mounted trolling motor and that additional battery, large cooler/fish box up front, plus shift fuel tank a bit forward if possible. Also maybe a factor - I'm not a big guy - only weight 185 -even when I need to lose 10 lbs. I do want this deck open for crab pots and crab trot lining, fly fishing in wind, as well as potentially stringing up a tarp for camping on the boat. I currently have a 21' Mako with a big center console and I'm striving for a much more open "floor plan" on my next boat.
Thanks!

User avatar
OrangeQuest
Very Active Poster
Very Active Poster
Posts: 3944
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:14 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by OrangeQuest »

Have you ruled out a mini side console mounted on the side of the boat just behind the casting deck? Will take up a lot less room and really would be a wide-open deck from casting deck to the back of the boat.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
A. A. Milne

Toms
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:17 am
Location: Central Pennsylvania

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by Toms »

Hi OrangeQuest,
I wouldn't say I ruled out a small side console aft of the casting deck, but it is not my preference. Actually considered a very small console just ahead of rear bulk head, where the helm seat would actually be a fold-over seat between the rear stowage compartments - very similar to a Jones Brothers Cape Fisherman 1910LT. That cockpit design has my attention, but I do still think my preference is a wide open, tiller steered, simple, "strong as a tank" design - if that doesn't require significant design change OR significantly impact safety. My goal is to have a wide open, simple to maintain boat. Consoles bring controls to break or malfunction and nooks and crannies to clean and maintain.
Thanks!

User avatar
Jaysen
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 6497
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:59 am
Location: St Helena Island, SC
Contact:

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by Jaysen »

Toms, I hear you on that one.

I'll be the opposing view to a few ideas just to make sure you think about some ideas...

1. Anything that may change weight up front shouldn't be part of your base trim. You really want the boat to be trimmed to run well "empty". Use moveable masses to impact running trim.

2. Moving "more forward" kind of seems like a bad idea if you are doing it for "trim" (see number 1). Do it for improved leverage on the motor. Keep in mind you now can't reach the motor controls for FNR and will need a longer kill rope.

3. Grab bar is only useful if you use it all the time. I've seen people dump themselves of the back of a 25hp skiff full throttling to plane while standing up because they didn't have the grab bar in their grasp when they twisted the throttle. Consider something to lean/sit on. Big Boy Motor.

4. Pursuant to #1, consider a water ballast up front. This will allow you to pump water in if you need weight forward (you need to sit on the transom for running) or pump it out to remove weight (filling the coffin!!! or run out a lot of the fuel). it sounds more complicated than it is but will allow you to easily shift loaded trim based on a deck full of crab pots or a cockpit full of people.

There isn't much you can't do with these designs. The key is to keep the base structure intact with at least 3" of bulkhead remaining from the edge (this one is tricky so ask a lot of questions before changing a bulkhead shape). Do NOT modify the singers without consulting with Jacques. Do your best to build light and I'm sure you'll be happy with what you end up with.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

Toms
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:17 am
Location: Central Pennsylvania

Re: C19 with a tiller...

Post by Toms »

Jaysen - all great points and exactly why I asked here. I don't know what I don't know, so replies like I'm getting are so helpful. They ensure I consider what I may not have thought of so far.
The water ballast up front does sound complicated - I'll have to take your word for it that it isn't - but will do some research and see what I can learn. Anything I plan/do to modify the basic plan would be run by Jacques first. I won't risk a bad decision without running it by the professionals.
And I hear you loud and clear on the grab bar and associated hazards of throttling up a big motor without hanging on. I'm by no means a speed demon but this boat with the recommended motors certainly has the capability to get up and go and dump the skipper off the back.
One comment from TomW1 - about motor shaft length got my attention. if a 25" shaft would allow tiller clearance without modifying the rear bulkhead, am I correct to assume that it will require me to raise/modify the transom?

Thanks again - great stuff and quite helpful in wrapping my head around things!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests