I had a search through the forum and elsewhere online and although there was some discussion a while ago, there were no clear answer to my questions that I could find. So I'll ask them regardless:
A) Currently I'm building the VG23 sailboat. There is certainly a potential to one day sail this boat to Mexico/Canada/Caribbean so I'd like to get the boat documented with the USCG to make things easier internationally. But USCG appear to place a 5 ton minimum (26') on boats that are eligible for documentation. Has anyone gone through the USCG documentation for homemade sail boats? Was it possible/easy/hard? I'm sure Webb Chiles and everyone else who sailed small boats away from the US had their <26' boats documented, so it must be possible? Any advice or suggestions or is the best thing just to talk direct to the USCG and see what they say?
B) We live in NM. But say I decide to truck the boat to Florida/California and keep it in a marina slip there. It would be kept there long term so I presume would need to be registered and documented wtih the state, even if we were still living in NM? Even this isn't clear based on what I've read up to now.
Oh-hum.
Do I have the determination and will to build and finish the boat...YES!
Do I have the patience and ability to learn to sail the boat...YES!
Do I have the energy to actually get the boat documented correctly... ... ...hmmm?
If there is one thing that sucks the lifeblood out of me it is dealing with the quagmire of admin and all the different state/federal rules. I'm trying to get all this sorted out *before* the boat is finished, to ease the pain later on.
Any help will be gratefully received!
Mick
USCG Boat Documentation
USCG Boat Documentation
FB11 (Designer Evan Gatehouse)
VG23 (Designer Jacques Mertens)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.
VG23 (Designer Jacques Mertens)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.
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- * Bateau Builder - Expert *
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- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am
Re: USCG Boat Documentation
The CG measures 5 tons differently. It is not mass, nor displacement as we think of it; is it gross displacement, which is displacement of the entire hull.
For the Vg23; it would be approximately.
23x8x4 = 736 * 0.5 for sailboats or 368/100 or 3.68 tons
So, the boat is too small for cg. The 0.5 is a crude fineness factor the cg applies to sailing vessels.
If the depth of the entire boat is 5', then
23x8.1x5 = 931.5*0.5/100 or still a little under the cg 5 ton displacement rule.
If the designer has another figure for gross displacement; that could change the outcome, but you'd need something from him for the applications.
For the Vg23; it would be approximately.
23x8x4 = 736 * 0.5 for sailboats or 368/100 or 3.68 tons
So, the boat is too small for cg. The 0.5 is a crude fineness factor the cg applies to sailing vessels.
If the depth of the entire boat is 5', then
23x8.1x5 = 931.5*0.5/100 or still a little under the cg 5 ton displacement rule.
If the designer has another figure for gross displacement; that could change the outcome, but you'd need something from him for the applications.
- Evan_Gatehouse
- Very Active Poster
- Posts: 3210
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: USCG Boat Documentation
Tonnage for registration is a measure of volume not weight. And yes, it's likely <5 tonnes and can't be documented. So for little boats they probably went with state registration and the officials didn't care because the boat was too small to matter.
Note - you fill out form CG-5397 yourself and you measure and declare the dimensions yourself. The form says there is a possible $20,000 fine if you lie on it. Now, it would be wrong to lie on the form but that is what I would do.
If you want to be a bit more legal - you might be able to include things to reach 5 tons.
The definition of length EXCLUDES swim platforms, bowsprits, rudders, etc that are not part of the bouyant volume of the hull. But a 12" sugar scoop type hull extension WITH buoyancy would count for increasing the length. It can have a V notch for the rudder.
Beam is measured to the outside skin AT THE WIDEST PART OF THE HULL. But nothing says you can't have little bumps that stick out that are part of the hull and get you to 9'. After the boat is registered maybe they fell off. Or you cut them off and decided not to re-measure the boat.
IOR sailboat hull "bumped"
Depth is measured at or near amidships. Increase the hull depth with a clear bubble right at the measurement point.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/att ... 1337515077
Maybe you get to 24' x 9' x 5' x (0.5/100) = 5.4 tons
Every state is different. Most allow 90 days in the state before it has to be registered with the state as well. Some states don't require this if you have federal documentation.
Note - you fill out form CG-5397 yourself and you measure and declare the dimensions yourself. The form says there is a possible $20,000 fine if you lie on it. Now, it would be wrong to lie on the form but that is what I would do.
If you want to be a bit more legal - you might be able to include things to reach 5 tons.
The definition of length EXCLUDES swim platforms, bowsprits, rudders, etc that are not part of the bouyant volume of the hull. But a 12" sugar scoop type hull extension WITH buoyancy would count for increasing the length. It can have a V notch for the rudder.
Beam is measured to the outside skin AT THE WIDEST PART OF THE HULL. But nothing says you can't have little bumps that stick out that are part of the hull and get you to 9'. After the boat is registered maybe they fell off. Or you cut them off and decided not to re-measure the boat.
IOR sailboat hull "bumped"
Depth is measured at or near amidships. Increase the hull depth with a clear bubble right at the measurement point.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/att ... 1337515077
Maybe you get to 24' x 9' x 5' x (0.5/100) = 5.4 tons
Every state is different. Most allow 90 days in the state before it has to be registered with the state as well. Some states don't require this if you have federal documentation.
designer: FB11/GV10,11,13/ HMD18/
SK17,MM21/MT24
SK17,MM21/MT24
Re: USCG Boat Documentation
Evan/Fall-guy,
That is GREAT advice thanks. Just what I needed. You know, now I think about it, I'm sure with a rub-rail, and maybe a bow sprit or something I bet I can approach the required weight.
For some reason, I have been thinking and planning the build so much that it doesn't worry me any more - I know I'll end up with a decent boat on the water at some point in future. But admin and bureacracy and such things really have the potential to take the fun out of the process. That is a huge weight off my mind.
Much appreciated
Mick
That is GREAT advice thanks. Just what I needed. You know, now I think about it, I'm sure with a rub-rail, and maybe a bow sprit or something I bet I can approach the required weight.
For some reason, I have been thinking and planning the build so much that it doesn't worry me any more - I know I'll end up with a decent boat on the water at some point in future. But admin and bureacracy and such things really have the potential to take the fun out of the process. That is a huge weight off my mind.
Much appreciated
Mick
FB11 (Designer Evan Gatehouse)
VG23 (Designer Jacques Mertens)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.
VG23 (Designer Jacques Mertens)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.
- Evan_Gatehouse
- Very Active Poster
- Posts: 3210
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: USCG Boat Documentation
Hey just so you know - bowsprits and rub rails don't count when measuring length and beam. Only the actual hull.
HOWEVER if your bowsprit looked like this: Then you count this length as part of the hull. Even if it's just a bit of plywood glassed and faired to give the bowsprit some support
HOWEVER if your bowsprit looked like this: Then you count this length as part of the hull. Even if it's just a bit of plywood glassed and faired to give the bowsprit some support
designer: FB11/GV10,11,13/ HMD18/
SK17,MM21/MT24
SK17,MM21/MT24
Re: USCG Boat Documentation
Right...will bear that in mind. It is good to have all that in my head *before* I start the hull build!
Cheers,
Mick
Cheers,
Mick
FB11 (Designer Evan Gatehouse)
VG23 (Designer Jacques Mertens)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.
VG23 (Designer Jacques Mertens)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.
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