Thinking MT24 Hybrid

[W1ngz]

I'm thinking about a Maia 24 build, using a parallel hybrid diesel. Yes, I said hybrid, knowing full well that there's a ton of people who don't believe in or trust anything to do with electric propulsion. For the naysayers, by all means bring your criticisms, but keep them constructive. Don't tear apart the idea just because you wouldn't do it. Bring some facts, specifics and data to back it up.

Why hybrid? I like the potential of a quiet afternoon around a bay, an after dinner cruise or mornings with a pot of coffee while mushing a displacement hull quietly through the water. On longer trips, there may be days with low miles and lots of short hops between locks, making days when the diesel may not be needed at all. Being realistic, I don't expect more than 10 to 12 nm before the batteries are near done and it's time to either put in, or start the engine. If I was sat on $1mil or two, I'd just buy a Greenline.

The use:
Mostly inland waterways. Between Montreal and the great lakes, I've got the St Lawrence river, the rideau canal, the Thousand islands, the Trent Severn waterway and the small craft channel along the eastern Georgian bay. Looking east, I could pick up the Richelieu river down to the Hudson or Erie canal as far south as NYC. Plenty of opportunity for day, weekend or multi-week trips. I'd love to do a great loop, but in my opinion the study plans go too far in suggesting a vessel of that size would be a good idea for the requisite gulf crossing, or that it would be desirable to spend months aboard. Has anyone looped one of these before?

Hull:
I like the look of the Maia 24, something I'd describe as a mini trawler with a minor tugboat identity crisis, and she fits on a trailer which makes haul outs and storage easier in the winter. I especially like the forward cabin window modification that I saw here: https://community.boatbuildercentral.co ... ?pid=27392

Propulsion:
Yes, I said hybrid. Yes, I know it's expensive, it's literally double the price of diesel alone, and that doesn't even figure the cost of batteries. Beta marine have versions of their engines married to a 48v 10kw motor for alternate propulsion. The electric motor doubles as a 5kw generator when running on diesel. The smallest they offer hybrid on is their 20hp, which is on the higher end of what's recommended.

Electrical:
With a bit of an extension of the cabin roof forward from the window mod linked above, and aft partially over the cockpit area (or flexible panels on a bimini), I think it would be possible to Tetris together almost 1kw of solar panels and still leave space for the basic communications antennas and a vent. That would mean any kind of dinghy there might be would have to go on davits out the back. The solar panels would primarily be to cover house loads while docked or at anchor, without having to rely on shore power, and the excess to top off the main batteries. Again for the naysayers, I've seen the people who expect that they will be able to run propulsion directly off solar, and I very much understand that you can't run a 10kw motor off 1kw of solar. It will, on the brightest of sunny days, take a full day to fully charge the main batteries if they're depleted. Realistically, it will take 2 on solar alone, which is what makes the 5kw generating ability of that motor when the diesel engine is running almost a necessity.

For batteries, this is where the real Tetris starts. I'm not sure the unused space under the furniture and below the floor is sufficient. I'd need to find a way to fit at least 100Ah of lithium down there, preferably 200. Depending on available space this could be a single battery, or banks of 4x12v or 2x24v batteries, depending on space and ballasting constraints. 200ah at 48v of lithium is on the order of 240lbs. Along with water and fuel tanks, starter and house batteries I also need to find space for an inverter/charger and solar controller.

I might need a bigger boat.

[Jaysen]

Ready the skinny dip thread by glossyblack. He did something similar. Likely some info for you there.

Folks here likely won’t naysay you hybrid approach. We are all kind of odd so we tend not to get to finger pointy outside of silly politics and vaccine discussions (just avoid the bilge).

Good luck.

[cape man]

I have no advice other than go for it. I agree with Jaysen on reading the thread here by Glossieback and his hybrid diesel but also encourage you to reach out to him to pick his brain as he is still working out the kinks on the electric side.

[fallguy1000]

Great idea. Can you go 10% bigger to 112" beam? Then you get 2' for electrical cabinet on one side and a head on the other. Hull speed improves a bit as well.

[W1ngz]

Thanks for checking in!
You're right, I probably shouldn't be defensive from the outset, but I've been lurking for a couple years, and there always seems to be someone waiting to crap on anything to do with electric propulsion.

I'll have a look through that thread, but it's 694 pages, holy cow!

Ready the skinny dip thread by glossyblack. He did something similar. Likely some info for you there.

Folks here likely won’t naysay you hybrid approach. We are all kind of odd so we tend not to get to finger pointy outside of silly politics and vaccine discussions (just avoid the bilge).

Good luck.

[W1ngz]

There's no reason I couldn't, other than I wasn't really considering making all my own cuts, I was going to go with the CNC kit.
Adding 10% also put it outside of the max width for trailering without permits.

Any idea if kits can be scaled up?

Great idea. Can you go 10% bigger to 112" beam? Then you get 2' for electrical cabinet on one side and a head on the other. Hull speed improves a bit as well.

[W1ngz]

I've started going over that thread with some keyword searches. At 694 pages, I can't read the entire thing end to end.

The big difference so far seems to be that he looks to have hybridized a diesel from scratch. I'm not willing to take on that much, and so far have only considered pre-designed solutions like this:
https://betamarinecanada.com/he-hybrid-propulsion/

Includes the engine and electric motor, and the transmission which seems to have been one of the bigger hangups in that other build.

I have no advice other than go for it. I agree with Jaysen on reading the thread here by Glossieback and his hybrid diesel but also encourage you to reach out to him to pick his brain as he is still working out the kinks on the electric side.

[Jaysen]

Using a prevalidated design will save you a headache.

Call BBC about scaling the CNC but generally that's a no. I looked at my plans and I wouldn't want to attempt to scale, loft then run on a machine as a one off. But maybe BBC is willing?

The negative Nacy's here are going to have to stop being idealogues soon. Some folks with red user names are starting to see a trend where some of us older timers crap on ideas then new builders never come back. I don't like to use this hammer with the words "ban" and "block" written on it (evidence in the bilge) but if folks get to pushy here, I will. This is your thread. If you want to experiment with hybrid designs, lead the way. The only caveat is that folks do have a right to suggest safety concerns. You know... don't lick the red wire while holding the black wire type things. We don't want you offing yourself. I might suggest that some of those should be left to be read.

Hope that helps set your mind at ease.

Get building. I want to see this thing on the water!

[W1ngz]

... The only caveat is that folks do have a right to suggest safety concerns. You know... don't lick the red wire while holding the black wire type things. We don't want you offing yourself. I might suggest that some of those should be left to be read.

But.. red wires look soooo tasty!

Sarcasm aside, I work in I.T., have a background in electricity (though distant), and I'm a certified diver, all of which require keeping your wits about you and not making rash, untested or unproven decisions. Being aware of my own ignorance is something has shaped my so-called wisdom for a long time, so I have a pretty good sense of where the line is to get additional training, call in a consultant or if need be, hire a pro.

A consultation with a marine electrician needs to happen early on, once I'd gotten plans and well before any plywood is bought.

Get building. I want to see this thing on the water!

First things first. I'm a city dweller, I need to figure out WHERE to build.

[Jeff]

Sorry guys, we do not scale the plans for CNC kits. Too much could go wrong!! Jeff