Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:25 am**

The offical clock has started!!

Ordered the epoxy and precut kits on 3/4/05. Epoxy arrived 3/7!!!!

Built model to find out where the "difficult" areas of the hull might be...it's the BOW!! There are a couple of pics in my album of the model. I learned alot from building it...and I really like the shape..just the right combination of sharp entry and flat stern for my fishing needs..in Tampa Bay and the surrounding intercoastal areas.

Posted: **Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:56 pm**

Moved supplies and tools to a vacant garage a few miles from home over the last few days.
Completed the strongback this morning...
Just got the call from the freight company..they will deliver the precut kit tomorrow!
It's going to be a busy weekend..

I've also been watching Dynamo's progress and hopefully learning how to make the big camber bends..
Stay tuned..

Posted: **Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:35 pm**

I may go to Tarpon Springs on April 16th. If I go that way, I would love to stop by and see the assembly.
I should know more about that trip to the West Coast within 2 weeks.

Posted: **Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:45 pm**

WOW!!!!!...a possible visit from the head guy!!!

Seriously, Jacques, that would be fantastic if it fit's your schedule. Email me when you know...or call if it's more convienient.
John

Boy will this provide motivation

Posted: **Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:36 pm**

Jacques,

You're welcome to stop by my place and help me finish glassing in my stringers.

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:38 pm**

Precut kit arrived this afternoon. In 2 1/2 hrs all the parts were cut free and laid out in the driveway..it looks good! Epoxied two layers of the transom so far..later tonight will add the third layer. Tomorrow I'll start assembling the frames on the strongback.

Posted: **Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:53 pm**

Started around 9:00 this morning and worked until 6:30 (less 1 hr for some lunch and a trip to Home Depot). Learned alot thru mistakes but eventually I got the hang of setting up the verticals and aligning the frames on the strongback. Got the transom,F,E, and D set, aligned, and braced. Spliced the stringers for an overnight setup.
Found one small cutting error but nothing serious.
Will try and place A, B, and C tomorrow along with gluing the 2 stringer sides together.
Next big item is figuring out how set the small end pieces of the center frames (see my gallery for some pics).

Posted: **Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:46 pm**

Was able to get in a few hours today. Got all the stations mounted and aligned. Everything went together easily after yesterday's learning experience (mistakes!!). Glued one stringer set together for an overnight cure. I may be able to get the outside arms of frames C, D, and E set up tomorrow.

Posted: **Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:47 pm**

Sorry for the duplicate entry

Posted: **Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:02 pm**

Worked for a few hours this afternoon. Cut the starboard notch in station F and lined up the stringer. Placed the starboard-side outside frame pieces (will mount them solidly tomorrow). Glued the Port-side stringer pieces for an overnite cure.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:06 pm**

Was able to get after it between 9 and 3:30 today.
Mounted the remaining stringer and finished all the "arms" for stations C, D, and E. Checked all frame spacing and level to reference again and had to make an 1/8" adjustment to E. The jig looks pretty good and is fairly rigid...able to handle all the normal bumps as you work around it.
Butt joined the two 3/8" bottom panels for overnite cure.

I would recommend to anyone who uses the precut kit to make special pieces to hold the outside-the-stringer frame pieces. If you cut pieces of regular ply like the top half of the frame drawings then you only have to make one setup rather than several if you use small patches (like I did!)
Second tip...measure everything and label each piece. Many pieces are VERY similiar to others but not exactly. There are two frames pieces for example that only differ by 1/8"..very easy to pick up the wrong one. I also found one small cutting error in the precut kit as well.

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:49 pm**

Not much done today..added crossbraces to stations C,D, and E with a little extra to support the side panels when they are placed. Spliced the bow section of the bottom panels and first splice for the side panels. Left them to cure overnite.
Tomorrow is a big day..kerfing and setting the bottom panels!

Early observation...talk about scaling the Panga 20 down smaller was really foolish. As it begins to take shape it's getting easier to see that it IS A SMALL BOAT. I'm thinking a cross between a flats skiff and a bay boat..which is perfect for me. I wanted a small boat that was easy to handle on/off the trailer and enough bow to allow me to cross the bay when the wind picks up.

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:02 pm**

JAS . . . sounds like the build is getting off to a great start! I think I speak for us all when I say I hope you are taking pics and will be able to post them soon!

Keep up the good work!

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:26 pm**

I wish there was some easy way to automatically link a particular "builders" forum story to their particular gallery but I couldn't figure out how.
Here is the link to my gallery...I'll try and keep it current with the reports.
http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=271

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:35 pm**

Wow, those pics are great. Can I use the pics of the parts laid out in the driveway for my web site?

Eric

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:36 pm**

Thanks for posting the link to your gallery! Looks great!

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:54 pm**

Looks good. The pre-cut kit sure looks nice. I'd hate to lay a pre-cut kit out against my pieces. Comparatively, mine look like they were chewed out by a pack of trained rats.

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:00 pm**

Eric..use any pics you like.

Smilin....I've used that pack of trained rats myself in earlier projects! This time I went with the automated rats....better use of the wood

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:53 pm**

Big day..even though it was only 2 hours. Placed the complete starboard bottom panel (kerfed before placement) and began the process of bending the 3/8 "steel

into it's final shape. Started at the transom..ok there..fit perfect at F and then began the bending at E. So far pretty easy. Next clamped the center side of D and the outside edge of C (so the bend is at a diagonal per the ruling lines Jacques showed). Next clamped the outside edge of D..so far so good. Next finished clamping the inside of C and began clamping down outside edge of C. Almost got it before I had to quit..about a 1/2" to go. At this point there is still alot of bending to do at B but I'm going to cleat and brace what I have shaped thus far before I go any further forward. I'm also taking the weekend off so it'll sit until Monday.
As you can see from the new pics I used a 2x3 down the centerline and along the outside edge to eliminate the buckle than forms with the stress. Seems to work pretty good. I now know a little better what Dynamo was experiencing and have that same feeling that once you remove the clamps it's going to explode into firewood!!

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:40 am**

JASmine wrote: once you remove the clamps it's going to explode into firewood!!

Oh, we forgot to tell you about that didn't we?!

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:55 am**

Meranti burn real nice, smells a bit but you get use to it. I took a huge pallet of scrap Meranti out to the burn pile last night, weenie roast Saturday!!

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:35 am**

OK..OK..you guys are pretty funny

I'm thinking back to the plan description where it says "the Pangas with their vee hulls will require a little bit more skill and more labor to build but not much."...or to the tutorials where it says "Use as little fasteners as possible and do not pull the panels against the frames unless absolutely necessary"...hah..hah...joke's on me.

Actually I do think it's fairly straightforward and so far it looks like a perfect design for me. I do wish that Jacques would publish the location and angle of the ruling lines so that the kerfs could be laid out easily.
Next week I'll find out if I can make all the panels fit properly without any bulges or dips..fairness counts you know

Posted: **Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:41 pm**

Worked about 2 hours today..braced the Starboard bottom panel and removed the clamps. Stations E,D,and C are finished. B is coming along and will be doable on Monday. Attached the panel at the bow mold to get a feel for the fit. I used some scrap material to straighten out the bulges in the edges..works great (see gallery) but now I have to figure out how to glass the seams around the screw heads that are holding down the panel.

Posted: **Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:46 pm**

Kerfed and mounted the Port bottom panel today. Much easier that the first one because I had a bit more confidence. I decided to NOT SPLIT the panel even though Dynamo's experience showed that is probably the way to do it. I already had the first panel in place and I was too lazy to remove it and put it back on. The kerfs are what make it possible..and a few well placed screws! If I was starting from scratch I WOULD split the 2 bottom panels.
Was also able to get both side panels mounted..only a few more stitches to go and then I'll be ready to start placing the glass straps to hold it all together. Overall the panels fit together pretty well (thanks most likely to the precut kit..thanks Eric). As Jacques says "gaps are good"!
After I get the 'bandaids' done, I'll use duct tape under the seams and fill some of them with epoxy putty, round them off, and then start glassing the seams.

Posted: **Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:31 pm**

I was able to work 6 hours today and got alot done.
Finished adjusting the side and bottom panels (actually more trueful to say I quit adjusting

). Spot welded the chine seam on both sides. Filled in some of the larger gaps with epoxy peanut butter...more to do of that before I glass the seams.
Next BIG step is to carefully remove the "bending" screws..and HOPE that it stays fair!!!

Posted: **Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:45 pm**

Looks very nice.

Posted: **Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:40 pm**

Worked for about an hour today...removed a few screws and IT STAYED FAIR

. Made another batch of peanut butter and filled more gaps along the chines. Tomorrow plan on filling and tabbing the keel seam. I'm not out of the woods yet regarding the shape staying fair after all screws are removed but I'm more confident now (I know that's when...).

Actually one lesson I learned today is that it's wise to make braces that cross from gunwale to gunwale to keep the shape at frames C,D,and E..these probably will stay until the inside is pretty well along. Now it's on to..lots of glass work and sanding, and fairing, and sanding and.....

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:08 am**

Looking real good! Thanks for the link to the gallery. You're moving along at quite a pace. Another boat that looks like it will be done before mine!

Have you planned the color scheme yet?

sincerely,
ks

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:37 am**

Very nice work, JAS . . . . pretty darn rewarding when a 'boat' appears!!

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:48 am**

JASmine. OK I believe at this point you've passed me. Now I can go to school on you. I plan to tack mine together on the inside so I can fair the edges of the chines and transom before taping the seams, besides that I have found that Epoxy works much better for holding my hair in place than regular hair gell. Keep up the good work.

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:54 pm**

Thanks to all for the kind words.

Today I finished the cross gunwale braces, filled and tabbed the keel seam, and removed ALMOST ALL the screws

... so far so good!

Dynamo..tabbing inside is a great way to keep the outside seams smooth. I don't think I could take all the bending and crawling that it requires though

... and of course using the 'non-split method' I needed LOTS of tabs.
I'm going to make mine "smooth" with the belt sander (being carefull not to cut the tabs themselves of course)...then I'll be ready to biax the seams.

Tomorrow's probably going to be a Tyvex and respirator day!

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:01 pm**

Only a small amount of work today...filled the last few gaps..tabbed the last of the keel seam at the bow..and sanded the chine tabs smooth on the starboard side...almost ready to biax all seams ...and only 4 screws left!!!... It really is possible to bend the 3/8" meranti to the Panga 20's camber requirements

..using kerfs.

Posted: **Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:47 pm**

Biaxed the full length of both chine seams today.

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:20 pm**

A BIG day...ALL screws removed and no firewood

!!

Completed smoothing and biaxing the keel seam...next, a couple of short seams on the transom and then on to the veil!

As I begin to contemplate the fairing I must say that the 1 1/2 gal Quickfair kit looks mighty small sitting next to the hull. I know..."put it on thin"...but still

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:01 pm**

JASmine wrote:As I begin to contemplate the fairing I must say that the 1 1/2 gal Quickfair kit looks mighty small sitting next to the hull. I know..."put it on thin"...but still

The trick, I think (and after 4 boats I'm still not sure I know the right way), is to get the fairing compound in the "right" places, i.e. the low spots. I have found that putting it on with something as wide as possible helps - like a 12" to 18" wide semi-flexible spreader. Something that can conform to the hull shape, but not be so small or flexible that it scrapes away the fairing compound from the low spots. All that being said, I still have probably seen hundreds of dollars of fairing compound go up in dust as I sand it away.

Ralph

Posted: **Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:06 pm**

JASmine wrote:A BIG day...ALL screws removed and no firewood !!

BRAVO!! Keep up the good work!

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:30 pm**

Started by cleaning up the work area....sanding dust everywhere.
Did a couple of seams on the transom, prepared the wide cloth for the bottom application, and started the laminations for the rubrail. Ordered the S3 primer (white). I think I 'm going to use a very very pale blue for the hull color so the white primer shouldn't effect it from underneath...(I know it wouldn't anyway with enough topcoats

)...but what the heck, everybody uses gray.
Taking a vacation day tomorrow

...life long friends visiting from up north.

Posted: **Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:52 pm**

Ordered the S3 primer (white).

Ah... the joys of prepping for primer...

Posted: **Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:33 pm**

Layed the starboard veil today..would clearly be easier with two people but you work with what you have......
It's not too bad a job but you do have to be quick about everything. I used the semi-wet on wet method..layed a layer over already coated wood and let it dry to tackfree (actually mine was almost tackfree..it's better to wait

)..then layed the already cut cloth, then wetted the cloth (which took multiple batches of resin..this is where you have to work fast), then rolled everything smooth, then put the plastic sheeting on, then rolled and squegeed everything..then rested!!

Posted: **Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:40 am**

Very nice . . . already ordering primer . . . woohoo!

I looked at your gallery this morning . . . She is looking super! Keep up the great work, JAS!!

Posted: **Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:59 am**

You are on a great pace, keep it up.

Joel

Posted: **Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:02 pm**

Layed and epoxied the port veil today...completed the 3 layer rubrail lamination on the starboard side.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:02 pm**

-Finished all layers of the whole rubrail...
-Removed all the 'peelply substitute'...
-Laminated a 12' 1x1 for the keel..will sand to shape per plan
-Removed all of the extra braces from strongback
-Removed the motorwell sides from the jig
-WAS ABLE TO GET THE BOW MOLD OUT!! ( I expected it to be welded to the side and bottom panels)

-Loaded the sander with 120 grit...fairing starts tomorrow.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:07 pm**

JASmine wrote:-Finished all layers of the whole rubrail...
-Removed all the 'peelply substitute'...
-Laminated a 12' 1x1 for the keel..will sand to shape per plan
-Removed all of the extra braces from strongback
-Removed the motorwell sides from the jig
-WAS ABLE TO GET THE BOW MOLD OUT!! ( I expected it to be welded to the side and bottom panels)

-Loaded the sander with 120 grit...fairing starts tomorrow.

Now this is where the fun begins,just kidding.Build on Dude.If isn't Boening I not going.

Evild BTW if I can do it anyone can.

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:33 pm**

OK....who said this was the FUN part (fairing) ??

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:13 pm**

JASmine wrote:OK....who said this was the FUN part (fairing) ??

FUN? We don't need no stinkin' FUN!

I'm almost 68 yrs. old now. My shoulders are so sore I can barely lift my arms. But I'm finally ready to prime. Fairing is where my discipline broke down. It took about 3 times longer than it should have.

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:13 pm**

Yoda...what I want to know is when does the tingling in your hands (from the sander) stop????

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:30 pm**

Oh, hell.............. that's from the sander? Thank God. I just thought I was having a stroke !

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:29 pm**

Sanding..filling..sanding...filling..and so on!

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:32 pm**

JASmine, when did you start your Panga? It seems like your just flying. How many hours a day are you working on it?

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:55 pm**

JASmine wrote:OK....who said this was the FUN part (fairing) ??

Me!

Evild.Who else gets to do something like this.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:02 pm**

Yoda..I started in early March by ordering material 3/3 (my chronology is listed in this thread). I do something almost every day but each day is different..sometimes an hour and sometimes 3-4. In the beginning I spent more hours per day because there were many things to do each day. Now after I sand for an hour and mix one batch of filler that's about it till the next day. Of course there are many hours "thinking" as well..what engine, what trailer, how to build the sprayrails, color, etc????

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:04 pm**

Yo! attownsend!
Are you sure the FAA ever let you fly people around for hire.....

I almost said CAA. Now that would be telling now wouldn't it?

Hey, they called and told me my motor shipped today. WHEW! Now I really have to get going.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:13 pm**

JASmine wrote:Yoda..I started in early March by ordering material 3/3 (my chronology is listed in this thread). I do something almost every day but each day is different..sometimes an hour and sometimes 3-4. In the beginning I spent more hours per day because there were many things to do each day. Now after I sand for an hour and mix one batch of filler that's about it till the next day. Of course there are many hours "thinking" as well..what engine, what trailer, how to build the sprayrails, color, etc????

I went back and looked. You have less than a month since starting?
That is FAST. You and DDADDY should get together and build a boat in a week

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:27 pm**

Financial Alert!!!!...Florida man begins to threaten national supply of aluminum oxide....
Weather Alert!!!...Large cloud of dust seen over west-central Florida beginning to change global climate...

Actually I have gone thru numerous sanding belts/disks but everything is beginning to fair nicely. Finished shaping the keel piece today and it's almost ready to install. Starting on the spray rails..I'm going to use a base of 1/2 x 3/4 and a topper of 3/4 quarter round. I'll post pics once I get it installed.
I'm expecting another 5 days or so of fairing before I roll on the primer (S3).

The lastest "big problem" is finding an appropriate trailer...one that has a 60" frame, handles the 20' length, and has a capacity of about 1600#. Almost everything I have looked at, has a 72" frame if the length is near 20'. I'd prefer one more matched to the narrow hull.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:21 pm**

Weather Alert!!!...Large cloud of dust seen over west-central Florida beginning to change global climate...

I thought TECO opened another plant on the Bay.

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:25 pm**

Did one round of fairing today but I'm tiring

I've now got a near-perfectly smooth surface with more 'waves' than I care for..so more compound to come.
Decided I needed a diversion so glued the keel in place...very interesting challenge to get a 12' long flexible 1x1 to mount straight!!... but it turned out not too bad... within a 1/16 of an inch.... I think I can true it up with sanding and fairing before I put the woven cloth on it.
I also started to mount the sprayrails (1/2 x 3/4 base with a 3/4 quarterround topper)...put a couple of screws in to hold the base in place...it checked out ok..took it off and gave the pieces a cover of epoxy. Hope to glue the first layer down tomorrow.

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:32 pm**

I'm down to small applications of Quickfair now. I almost have it but am being very (read too) picky. I'm a little worried about painting the hull. Never used a two part like S3 before. I'm also using S3 for the finish paint. My tendency to screw something up seems to be in direct relation to the cost of the item.

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:40 pm**

Yoda...I'm a little nervous about the S3 primer and paint as well but I've come this far so I'll just start ....

I'm using white primer so that will help me with the color choices. I have a gal of Orca white that I'm going to split into a 1/2 gal and 2 qts and tint one of the qts to a very pale blue.
I know I'm going to roll the primer but not too sure about the paint yet.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:16 pm**

..glassed in the keel, glued the first layer of the starboard sprayrail, filled in the gap at the bow on the rubrail, and finished last of the 'empty' areas with quickfair....now on to more sanding and fairing

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:53 pm**

Yoda wrote:My tendency to screw something up seems to be in direct relation to the cost of the item.

That is funny, but it sure hits close to home!

JAS . . . your boat is coming along very nicely! Good Job!

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:26 pm**

Yoda wrote:Yo! attownsend!
Are you sure the FAA ever let you fly people around for hire.....
I almost said CAA. Now that would be telling now wouldn't it?

Hey, they called and told me my motor shipped today. WHEW! Now I really have to get going.

Now that's excellent,and yes they let me fly people and you lrt it slip,CAA,come on you can't be that old.By the way I'm getting my tug boat certificate so I,ve been really busy latley.Sorry for the late return.Evild

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:36 pm**

attownsend wrote:
Yoda wrote:Yo! attownsend!
Are you sure the FAA ever let you fly people around for hire.....
I almost said CAA. Now that would be telling now wouldn't it?

Hey, they called and told me my motor shipped today. WHEW! Now I really have to get going.

Now that's excellent,and yes they let me fly people and you lrt it slip,CAA,come on you can't be that old.By the way I'm getting my tug boat certificate so I,ve been really busy latley.Sorry for the late return.Evild

Yes I can be that old. When I started flying it was CAA. I think the private exam was 50 true or false questions. Scary, huh.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:45 pm**

Yoda wrote:
attownsend wrote:
Yoda wrote:Yo! attownsend!
Are you sure the FAA ever let you fly people around for hire.....
I almost said CAA. Now that would be telling now wouldn't it?

Hey, they called and told me my motor shipped today. WHEW! Now I really have to get going.

Now that's excellent,and yes they let me fly people and you lrt it slip,CAA,come on you can't be that old.By the way I'm getting my tug boat certificate so I,ve been really busy latley.Sorry for the late return.Evild
Yes I can be that old. When I started flying it was CAA. I think the private exam was 50 true or false questions. Scary, huh.

You damn bet,when I took mine it was over 250 guestion,with an oral exam,but you should see the exam and training I'm going thru now,Tug boat Captain School!Man I thought aircraft were hard,Jesus.that was a piece of cake.Evild.Build on Dude.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:45 pm**

Worked a short day today but got the second layer of starboard sprayrail glued in place, the first layer of the port rail glued down, and the keel glass edge sanded.

Posted: **Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:06 pm**

...glued the second layer of the sprayrail on the port side..finish sanded the starboard rail...I like what it looks like... and hope it doesn't break off

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:33 pm**

..more filling and sanding

but...almost time to read the primer instructions

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:10 pm**

Would you please hurry up ! I want to see what not to do that screws up the paint job

I'm about ready, but you're holding me up !

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:42 am**

Yoda,
I'm 65 and had sholder problems too...E-mail me and i'll tell you how I fixed that!
Oceola

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:54 pm**

Yoda...I'm hurrying!!!!!.....don't make it any harder than it already is

Every morning I keep tell myself to "keep at the fairing"... it will make a difference later....it will make a difference ..it will.....
but I'm READY to quit sanding for awhile!!!
As you can see from my reports I have used any excuse to do anything else when at the garage,,,keel, sprayrails, cover coat for the remaining pieces, ect. I probably have 2-3 more days of final fairing before I roll on the primer.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:13 pm**

I know, I know. Same here. I went and bought lumber for a cradle today. And I'm sitting here drawing it up. As soon as the hull is primed and bottom painted I will flip it and set it in the cradle. That will give me a couple of days away from sanding the last little bit. I want to build cradle on the hull. Don't want to mess up paint. That's my rationale...........
works for me.

You'll have your boat before me. But I will splash before summer is over.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:55 pm**

...another day closer to primer

The hull is nearly completely faired but the rubrails need additional sanding and fairing..had to rebuild the random orbital today so that took some time from sanding

I'm hopefull that 2 more days will do it!

In preparation for the primer, read the mixing instructions...4:1..ok but then why is there 103oz of part A and only 24 1/2 oz of part B....ah the details one has to contend with when building a boat

Posted: **Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:55 pm**

I think fairing and sanding the rubrails,sprayrails, and keel is about as much work as the whole hull...

....lots of edges and seams to get just right..seems like it's taking forever compared to the large surface areas...still..I'm close now..

Posted: **Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:35 pm**

I got in another couple of hours today and finished the hull surfaces..they're ready for primer...now if I could just get the spray rails finished!!!..probably finish them on Saturday

..hopefully taking the day off tomorrow for some fishing!

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:13 am**

It sounds like you have the fairing process down. I should have my hull ready for fairing on Monday. Would you mind driving up to Jacksonville and doing mine? I'll supply the quickfair and the beer!

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:45 pm**

Dynamo..thanks for the GREAT offer...I'm sure it would be a wonderful experience but because I have to.....(fill in ANY reason you like)...I won't be able to accept your generous invitation.

Picked up one of those fancy paint can toppers with the pour spout today, and a few sponge brushes..already have the foam rollers and throwaway pans..and will get the alcohol thinner tonight...one day closer to primer!

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:07 pm**

TOMORROW is primer day!!!

Have to go over the whole hull with 150 grit in the morning....vacuum the dust off..vacuum the shop floor...let the dust settle for a few hours... wipe down with alcohol..then roll on the first coat of primer

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:16 pm**

Take a water spray bottle and mist the floor just before your ready to paint and that helps keep the dust down from your feet as well.

Good luck!!!

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:52 pm**

Eric...thanks for the tip..it worked great.

Rolled the first coat of S3 primer on this afternoon.
Lessons:
.....don't roll the day after you've sanded all day..it's hard on the sore arms!

.......the Panga 20 hull uses about a 1/2 to 2/3 gal of primer for the first coat..seems about right because they say 200/250 sq ft coverage per gal and the hull is about 160 sq ft
.....the primer is very easy to mix, work with , and clean up.
.....it will be interesting to see what imperfections show as the finish dries and dulls..when it's bright I can see alot

I plan on waiting a day before additional fairing/sanding but that remains to be tested.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:55 pm**

I can't believe the speed of your progress! Looking back at your first post I see that it's only 6 weeks since you started! Congratulations - you are doing a great job and I look forward to seeing more pics.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:39 am**

Checked on the first coat of primer this morning:

..a few dribbles under spray rail and on rub rail
...numerous pin holes remain but should fill with second coat
...additional fairing will be easy to target/not as bad as I first thought
...very nice overall finish..hard and smooth

I like it!!

...just the boost I needed to keep at it.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:42 am**

Great Jasmine. Did you thin with the 50% water/rubbing alcohol?

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:54 am**

No thinning necessary for my foam roller application...at least I didn't think so. I had the alcohol ready to mix with water for the 50/50 thinnning but it seemed just fine to me so I used it without thinning.

I would guess that it would be necessary for spraying.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:59 am**

Thanks coach.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:42 pm**

After 200 grit scuffing, vacumming, and alcohol wipe down, rolled on the second coat of primer. The Panga 20 requires 1 gal of the S3 primer for two full coats.
Next step is to add a very small fairing fillet under the sprayrail (I thought that the primer would fill the small gap but not..) and fill the remaining pinholes.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:24 pm**

Looking Good!!

Posted: **Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:40 pm**

Yoda...ammendment to thinning advice...ok for the first coat but better to thin for following coats because you will get too much orange peel (small lumps) if you don't ( a lesson I learned today). I'm ok because I expect to put up to 5 coats of primer on, so I'll thin from here on out.

Faired most of the remaining pinholes today and sanded the last few drips from primer coat #2. I am going to try for a finishlike smoothness in this primer coat (after sanding) before I add primer coat #3. I now believe I MAY get the kind of finish I'd hoped for...

Posted: **Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:37 pm**

Beautiful work so far. Wish I had had so much time. Very fast build. You are right, the S-3 primer is great to work with. I learned the thinning lesson too. Looking forward to seing her at "next year's" rendevous. Cottontop

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:07 pm**

O.K. Jasmine. Good input. What about the drying? Did you have to hurry, or did you have plenty of time to paint the whole hull without getting dry spots.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:15 pm**

I like to thin it with about 20% water - I have not tried the alcohol

Did coat last night in fact

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:30 pm**

Yoda....Drying too fast wasn't a problem for me. I mixed 24 oz of part A and 6 oz of part B and that covered 1/2 the hull (approximately 80 sq ft). Then I mixed another batch the same size and did the other 1/2. I noticed that when I tipped a couple of spots on the first side after I coated the second side that it was tacky and I stopped.
I'm going to use the 50/50 thinning mix for the next coat and thin to 20%.
I'll let you know how it works.

Did a full sanding routine today using 220 grit....each iteration more and more of the total surface gets topcoat smooth

Posted: **Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:08 am**

JAS yesterday I decided to cut 6" of the rubrail off at bow. I wasn't happy with it. So I'll be setback another couple of days. Picky picky picky.

Posted: **Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:21 pm**

Yoda..you must have a fetish for sanding

Posted: **Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:26 pm**

First the good news.....the 2nd coat of primer did a terrific job of evening the surface and it is sanding nicely.

Now the bad news..it looks/feels so good that I'm going for the 'near-factory finish' vs the "5 ft finish"..which means of course much more filling and sanding will be required!!!

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:07 pm**

Almost 6 hrs of sanding and filling today...no big areas of fill... just lots of tiny imperfections....and lots of sanding to get rid of the 'orange peel' from the 2nd primer coat.
Tomorrow hope to sand down the mini-fill areas with 220, vacumm, wipe down with alcohol, and roll on the 3rd primer coat (thinned 20%

)

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:39 pm**

Sounds like it is coming along nicely! Any pics of the last couple steps?

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:18 pm**

DG..I haven't taken any pics...of the fairing/sanding work..it's too painful to look at

..really it's pretty boring stuff at this point.

I did roll on the 3rd coat of primer today..thinned 20%...tomorrow we'll see how much orange peel this ratio produced. I was surprised at how thin the primer was at this ratio. I didn't measure the viscosity but I would guess it would spray nicely.

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:47 pm**

Three coats have used up how much paint?

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:33 pm**

Yoda
2 full coats equals one gallon of the S3 primer. I estimate the hull surface to be about 160 sq ft.

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:52 pm**

I better order another gal.

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2005 10:48 am**

Checked on the finish of the 3rd primer coat this morning and it looks very good..not perfect but by far the best so far...almost no orange peel. I'll try some 220 grit and see how it smooths out. It's also time to start using the high intensity light to find those last imperfections.

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2005 11:10 am**

Just ordered another quart of bottom color and gallon of primer. Now I can paint with wild abandon.

Have you thought about the cheap spray paint fogging method to find low spots? You have to use long board sander for large low places. You probably know this.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2005 6:47 pm**

Progress today..I was able to get in 2 filling/sanding cycles...each cycle is now down to 1 1/2 tablespoons of Quickfair for the whole hull...

..won't be long now..(I hope??)

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 1:29 pm**

Rolled on 4th coat of primer today (thinned 20%)

Lesson..don't use the cheap yellow foam rollers...they soak up too much primer and they contribute to the orange peel. Use the white ones that are made for very smooth surfaces. You still have to change rollers 1/2 way thru but they use A LOT LESS primer. I'll see tomorrow about the orange peel.

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 2:07 pm**

JAS,

Good work on your boat, you are moving right along!

I'm almost ready to begin priming my boat and am wondering if you have a link to the type of rollers you liked? Or a brand-name, place to buy, etc.?

Thanks,
Dane

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 5:19 pm**

DG..I don't have the packs here at home so I can't tell you the brand. I bought them at Home Depot. The yellow ones say "good for latex" and the white ones say "for very smooth surfaces".
Good Luck

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 3:11 pm**

4th coat of primer looks pretty good..very little orange peel (and that may be left over from coat #3)....moved up to 320 grit today...

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 3:21 pm**

JAS,

Cool! I found those white rollers at home depot yesterday . . . I bought a few, hoping they were the ones you were referring to! Thanks!

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 6:06 pm**

I'm finishing the epoxy coat on the rub rails and am ready to prime hull.
Went and picked up motor this morning. They set it up and ran it for me.
It whispers and zero smoke. Fired up very quickly.

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 9:02 pm**

Yoda...brand?..2s or 4s?...hp?...weight of your boat??

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 9:13 pm**

Look at this HMD18.
http://www.boatplans-online.com/proddet ... prod=HMD18

The motor is a Tohatsu 9.8 hp 4 stroke. Remote steering, electric start, remote controls and alternator. 25" shaft. It should make 6.5 kts.

Posted: **Sun May 08, 2005 12:11 pm**

JASmine wrote:Yoda....Drying too fast wasn't a problem for me. I mixed 24 oz of part A and 6 oz of part B and that covered 1/2 the hull (approximately 80 sq ft). Then I mixed another batch the same size and did the other 1/2. I noticed that when I tipped a couple of spots on the first side after I coated the second side that it was tacky and I stopped.
I'm going to use the 50/50 thinning mix for the next coat and thin to 20%.
I'll let you know how it works.

Did a full sanding routine today using 220 grit....each iteration more and more of the total surface gets topcoat smooth

Hey JAS, I'm sure you meant to say...... 6 oz part A, 24 oz part B.
Then when you mix them you have 30 oz, you thinned 20%. That would be 6 oz of 50/50 thinner, right? Now you have 36 oz of primer ready for painting? That's what I'm starting with. So here I go. Will keep posted.

Posted: **Sun May 08, 2005 1:19 pm**

Yoda..I was mixing the GENERIC part A and B

..you know..some of this and some of that!...OR..I was just seeing if you were on your toes

.
Yes..24oz + 6oz + 3oz +3oz...which technically is not a 20% mix but close enough.
To be precise (which I wasn't) you would start with the total amount..say 36oz..then 20% would be 7.2oz of thinner mix..then you split 28.8 into fifths..then.......

Good Luck
PS..hopefully you saw my recommendation for foam rollers...the "smooth surface" ones use considerably less paint so if you have less than 80 sq ft you might want to start with a smaller batch.

Posted: **Sun May 08, 2005 4:49 pm**

Sunday..5/8/05...Continuing to work very small areas on the hull with quickfair..today was finishing the keel piece to my satisfaction. My continuing nemisis is the underside of the spray rails (the top on an upright hull)..the hull/rail seam has been had to get right so I have had to fill and sand small sections..sort of like grouting a tile backsplash..up-side-down.
Overall hull surface is finished and ready for paint..it's just the last 1% that's giving me fits...patience..patience..patience (If I repeat it enough maybe...)

Posted: **Sun May 08, 2005 7:26 pm**

I have the 1st coat on JAS. Looks pretty good. Only thing I learned was to have a little 50/50 thinner mixed so you can add as you go. When I start out with a batch and it's 20% thin, it goes on really nice. Once it starts to thicken(doesn't take long) it's too thick. I've decided to paint the whole hull to finish before I flip. Bottom, sides, and boot stripe. Good on you

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 12:52 pm**

I uploaded a pic of the first coat. Came out pretty good. I'm going to Quickfair some small spots before I apply second coat. It's staying cool and rainy. Want to take advantage of that before the hot weather comes.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 7:25 pm**

Seems like it's taking forever to finish those last little spots

...but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel

Down to mixing small batches of primer now and only working certain areas...next big step will be to add one more full coat of primer..let it cure..and PAINT!!

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 8:46 pm**

That's where I am. Going out to sand QF right now. It's 17:45.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2005 10:57 am**

I'm about "DONE" filling and sanding.....the spots I'm working now are small scratches, pin depressions, etc..they just keep 'appearing"!!!!! so I'm going to quit.
I decided to try out one of the cheap HVLP sprayers from Wagner that have been mentioned on this Forum. The unit I bought is a new version that is fully selfcontained..$65. Even thought I bought it for the topcoat, I had a small amount of primer to do today (18oz) so I decided to try the sprayer...it worked really well in comparison to a foam roller. The two drawbacks I see so far are that it's heavy when filled with paint..I guess I need to do some wrist exercises

..and every once in awhile it spits out a little glob of paint. I didn't filter the primer so that may prevent the spitting. Overall I was VERY pleased with it's results.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2005 11:06 am**

On the spots that need work. Keep showing up here too. I won't live forever so I need to pick a spot to stop. I gave some thought to the sprayer but I DO have experiance painting boats. So I will finish with a very good set of brushes. Boy, a boat builders work is never done.
What's this about you going to B.C. next month. I read this morning that the Salmon have mysteriously disappeared up in Oregon. They don't know why...............

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2005 11:14 am**

Yoda..yes..I'm on special assignment to PETA during June so I plan to visit all the good Salmon spots in the Pacific Northwest and make SURE NO ONE catches any!!!

..the fish in Oregon must have gotten advance notice somehow??

Actually looking forward to a nice couple of weeks...Juneau, Sitka, Icy Strait, and spammer River..I need to give the fish here in Florida a rest.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2005 11:54 am**

DON't DO THAT! You had me going for a second there..........

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2005 10:39 am**

After an inspection this morning I can say the $65 sprayer worked great for the primer and should be equally as good for the topcoat!

Probably spray a couple more sections of the hull with primer for practice and to cover any dark spots..then wait for the primer to cure and then....

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 2:19 pm**

Sprayed a full coat of primer today..and learned how to avoid the spitting I mentioned earlier..just start the spray away from the surface..all the globs are from the first air going thru the nozzle.
I'm through filling for now...I've reached the point of diminishing returns...it's not perfect ..but 160 sq ft is alot of surface to make perfect..so I guess I'll live with it....probably a total of 3-4 sq in of imperfections overall...and as my friends say " the fish won't care"

I'm sure someone with more skill could have finished the surface and joints to 'autobody' quality but I can't seem to get there so it's time to move on.

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 2:25 pm**

JAS,

You are using the S3 primer, correct? If so, what is the ratio that you are thinning it to spray? Just wondering?

Thanks,
Dane

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 2:36 pm**

DG...I'm using the 20% thinning mix. It's actually the same mix I was using for the roller to eliminate the orange peel. The cheap sprayer sprays it just fine.

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 3:05 pm**

Thanks JAS, that's just the info I was looking for . . . I noticed some orange peel as the primer began to thicken. Glad I remembered the tip to have some of the 50/50 thinning mix handy!

Dane

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2005 12:07 am**

Sanded primer today. Found a few very small spots that I won't let go. I'll fill those and add one more primer coat. It really looked pretty good.

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2005 9:12 am**

Wow JASmine!

You are an inspiration. I too live in the Tampa area and am contemplating building a Panga. Had to bow out of the project for a while 'cause I just had some minor surgery. Everything went well, should be 100% in a couple months, and after seeing your pics and reading your play-by-play, I'm really ready. Thanks for the posts!

dave

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2005 10:22 am**

JASmine wrote:.... I'm sure someone with more skill could have finished the surface and joints to 'autobody' quality but I can't seem to get there so it's time to move on.

JASmine, you certainly are a man with patience - I have enjoyed reading your sanding/priming log. From you postings and photos you must have achieved perfection by any human standard!! It is a shame your not in OZ - you're just the guy to fair my next project!!

Hope you're planning to buy an A1 trailer - trailers seem to have been invented to break boatbuilders' hearts especially those with perfect hull bottoms.

_______________

Terry Stamp
C19

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2005 3:10 pm**

Man, it's amazing how quickly your boat is coming along. How many hours per day do you put in, and how many days per week?

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2005 3:13 pm**

Thanks to all for the kind words....I checked on the finish today and it's ready for paint.....I'll wait a few days for the primer to cure and then on to the topcoat

I also started to disassemble the frames from the inside and to build the cradle for the righted hull to sit on.
I was going to put it upright on the trailer.. but I changed my mind to a low cradle. It will be easier to work on the inside from the shop floor instead of from a ladder.

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2005 7:34 pm**

OzzyC.....I usually work on the boat from 1 to 3+ hrs four or five days a week (I have to leave some time for fishing you know

).
During the fairing and priming process sometimes an hour in the morning and an hour at night. It seems like it took about a month of elapsed time to go from rounding up supplies to a finished hull and then another month of elapsed time to get the hull faired and primed ready for topcoat. Probably be another 2 weeks before I get it painted and flipped.

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2005 11:01 am**

I couldn't resist spraying one LAST full coat of primer this morning...using the sprayer actually makes it easy

..but THAT"S IT!!!
Overall it's pretty good but as the light changes I can see more spots that could be filled..BUT NOT!!!!
Hopefully it will rain in the next few days and I can do the topcoats on a high humidity/cool temp day/night...until then I'll be cleaning out the shop/dusting/vacumming, etc in preparation.

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2005 11:17 am**

Well my last coat of primer is applied. But the weather turned rainy and cool. So it will probably take 3 days to cure. So I'm checking the hull for level all around. Now making a marking stick to lay out the boot stripe/waterline on the hull. That's after a light sanding. Then taping and masking to paint the bottom color. Then moving tape to lower edge of bottom color and paint sides. Once that has cured flip time. Need to find some carpet pieces for cradle. When sun comes back I can use curing time to lay out and cut next parts for topside. Today.....? Practice my guitar.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2005 10:28 am**

Used the 400 grit in preparation for topcoat.....

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2005 11:02 am**

With my first coat of primer I got some of the 'orange peel' effect that you mentioned a few times. My question is whether it is necessary to completely sand this smooth before a second coat or will subsequent coats primer cover these spots? I've sanded everything with 220, but I can still slightly 'feel' the orange peel in several areas.

Thanks,
Dane

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2005 1:46 pm**

I've found that subsequent coats DO NOT fill the existing orange peel.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2005 2:35 pm**

DG..there may be a way to have following coats fill in the orange peel but my limited experience says that all you do is make more of it the next pass.
I did not sand it down smooth between the last several coats of primer but now that I have a nice thick layer over everything I will sand it smooth for the topcoat....using the 400 grit very lightly.

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2005 4:59 pm**

I haven't started the paint cycle yet, but on the last layer of epoxy on my NC16, I tried the "roll and tip" idea. It left a pretty smooth surface, and was wondering if anyone had tried it too.

I have looked around for the link on this forum, but it evades me. Basically you paint a small area with a thin foam roller and then lighty "burst the bubbles" with a foam paint pad.

I have built my canoe, more to learn the process, than to have a perfect vessel, so am not going to spend forever on the finish, but so far she's looking... well, OK!

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2005 5:27 pm**

I will quote from [SystemThree description and application guide]
About WR-155 they say:

"The primer loses a lot of surface profile as it dries so a little "orange peel"
in the wet primer coat is acceptable"

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2005 7:05 pm**

Prep work complete....topcoat going on tomorrow!!!

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2005 7:32 pm**

Still waiting for primer cure.
Cutting out rest of parts, Seem's as if I said that already.
Pics of finish paint please..........

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2005 11:32 am**

Mid-day report....3 light coats of topcoat this morning...taking a rest break now..more topcoat later today.

Too bad it's not more exciting..Orcas white over off-white primer doesn't look much different....

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2005 5:51 pm**

Three more light coats of topcoat this afternoon....a total of 6 today

. I used crosslinker in all the coats.
Tomorrow I will be laying out and masking the line for the side color (pale blue). Plan on using a water level referenced to the inside floor(deck)...this setup work will probably take all day..then I can paint the final coats for the sides on Wed after a light sanding for the crosslinker..I hope!!

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2005 8:50 pm**

How is the paint sprayer working with the paint? Are you happy with the sprayer? I am thinking of getting one.

al

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2005 9:23 pm**

Al....The jury is still out on the sprayer for the topcoat. It worked great for the primer because I sanded after each coat anyway. I'll have to see how the topcoat cures over the next day or so. When it was wet it looked like there were alot of heavy and light areas..it may be that the cheap sprayer does not maintain a constant flow. I tried both a vertical and horizontal spray pattern and that didn't seem to make a difference. I also increased the flow rate and slowed down my spray motion but with the same result...stay tuned!

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2005 9:42 am**

My experience spraying the top coat.

It is very difficult to control the overspray with cheap sprayers. The idea is to lay down enough paint so that it flows to a smooth surface before it starts to skin. What happens with a cheap sprayer is that tiny droplets of overspray settle on the previously painted surfaces that have already skinned. The result is areas that appear dull. When it all drys you can run your hand over it and feel the sandpaper effect of the overspray on the dull surfaces. So, the cure is to lay down enough paint so you can wet sand and buff the overspray away leaving a perfect finish with enough mills of paint.

Paul

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2005 2:57 pm**

Paul..thanks for the explanation.....and that's exactly what is happening...semigloss areas and dry areas. I lightly sanded a small area this morning with 500 grit and as you say it removes the contrast between the the two areas. I have enough coverage (6 coats) and I will lightly sand (600 grit) and wax for the finish.

Today I marked the waterline using a water level refrenced to the deck height. Tomorrow I'll mask off the hull bottom in preperation for spraying the side color.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2005 5:27 pm**

JASmine:

Did you thin the top coat? If so, how much?

Good job!

Rich

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2005 6:26 pm**

Rich..I thinned the topcoat with 20% water. You add the crosslinker to the water and then mix in the paint.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2005 2:13 pm**

Masked the side paint/bottom paint line this morning and covered the finished bottom with plastic (shower cap).
I found that it's not that easy to get a smooth curve over 20' long! After I got the mask in place per the level line I used the "eyeball" method to smooth out any places where "it didn't look right". Hopefully when it sets in the water all will be well.

Hope to spray sides tomorrow morning!!!

Posted: **Thu May 26, 2005 12:56 am**

JASmine,

I went to a paint shop today and discussed this overspray situations with them. they sold me my problem is not vacuming the overspray out of the spray enviroment. In a commercial sprat booth they vac the air out of the spray booth and filter the incoming air. I created a spray booth with plastic sheeting but all that did was trap the overspay and let it settle on the paint job. I'm going to try spraying outside on a day that has the correct hummidity and temp, yea, lots of luck!

Paul

Posted: **Thu May 26, 2005 8:21 am**

Yep, I concur with them. I used to spray paint 1500 AC vents a day in a factory. We had huge fans blowing air from behind us and a huge waterfall in front of us. The fans carried the overspray into the "wall of water". It worked awesome, but the job still sucked. Clearwater, FL in the summer with no AC.

Posted: **Thu May 26, 2005 1:35 pm**

mid-day Thursday report: mixed up my own "custom" color this morning using a tube of tint from HD...it's a very very pale blue. Sprayed two coats of color on the sides so far. Because the color is so light it doesn't look much different (the pure white areas are masked off). I will spray several more coats on this afternoon and evening.

Posted: **Thu May 26, 2005 7:08 pm**

Finished the day with six coats of side color

Removed all the masking and it looks good..no camera today so pics tomorrow.
Lessons..
..the $65 sprayer works much better than you would expect. I would recommend it for those building a boat (and not a piece of furniture...

) where you want a very good finish but not autobody quality.
..no matter how much you mask there is always one little spot where the spray gets in

..no matter how perfect the finish was before you put the topcoat on, you can add dribbles (I'm sure they sneak in after I leave for it to dry

)

Now I wait for a couple of days for the topcoat to harden a little and then it'll be ready to FLIP!!!!

Posted: **Thu May 26, 2005 7:12 pm**

Sounds good JASmine

Did you paint outside? What was the temp?

Paul

Posted: **Thu May 26, 2005 7:23 pm**

Paul..temp was 85 degrees..painted inside a garage with door partially open. I'm not worried about the overspray we discussed before...I found that the finish sanding makes the surface just the way I want it....slightly dull..like an eggshell finish. I would rather not have to work real hard at keeping the finish shiney!!

Posted: **Fri May 27, 2005 4:13 am**

Hey JASmine,

Are you using regular masking tape? I think I read, probably on this forum, that you can use special automotive vinyl tape which prevents the bleeding through.

Aussie

Posted: **Fri May 27, 2005 7:15 am**

DB..I did use special masking tape. I first layed the paint mask and then I taped the 'shower cap' down over that with another layer of tape. I'm embarassed to say that my 'shower cap' was not taped down in one small area and the spray got up under it along the spray rail. It's not a big deal..about and inch square and I will undoubtedly have to touch up a few areas with an airbrush later anyway.

Posted: **Fri May 27, 2005 11:04 am**

We are looking forward to some pix of your painting process!

al

Posted: **Fri May 27, 2005 9:31 pm**

posted a pic of the finished paint..unfortunately it's not very good and doesn't show the color well..the lighting in the garage is poor and my camera has to be too far away for the flash to do much good. If I get it outside during the flipping I'll take some good pics.

Posted: **Fri May 27, 2005 9:38 pm**

From what I can see...... looks pretty good.
I have the hull masked and draped for the 1st bottom coat early morning.
Now I'm getting nervous. Felt the same way right before I put 1st primer coat on.

Posted: **Fri May 27, 2005 9:45 pm**

Yoda...I'm sure it will turn out great..GOOD LUCK.

Posted: **Fri May 27, 2005 9:57 pm**

The picture looks great. I think the colors look nice too.

How did you manage to hang that big boat from the ceiling of your garage like that? Your arm must get tired holding up that heavy spraygun!

Posted: **Sat May 28, 2005 7:21 pm**

O.K. got up at 05:00 to take advantage of cooler temps. By 13:00 I had two coats on the bottom. First coat no crosslinker, second with crosslinker.
Ready for this? I used a brush.

That's the way I've always painted boats so that's what I did. Wasn't bad. Worked 2X2 sections and moved fast. My old arthritic knees are now killing me. Tomorrow morning I'll do third coat W/Xlink. Then back to laying out and cutting parts while paint cures for sanding. After sanding, fourth coat and that's it for the bottom.
Then the sides before flipping. Man I can't wait. I'm fine/wet sanding the final coat up to 1500 grit.

Posted: **Sun May 29, 2005 2:33 pm**

Picture up of 3rd bottom coat.

http://gallery.bateau2.comdisplayimage.php?pos=-4113

Posted: **Sun May 29, 2005 3:16 pm**

Wow! Looks great Yoda. Very impressive finish.
Doug

Posted: **Sun May 29, 2005 3:41 pm**

Ha, it looks better in the photo than looking at the boat. But after 4th coat and wet sanding it should be OK for a bottom. The sides are what I'm really going for. I'd like a beautifull smooth glossy finish.

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:42 am**

Looks great. It's motivating me to work on the boat with Greg.

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:10 pm**

Probably the easiest way to get "good" results from the roll and tip. To get "yacht finish" results probably takes a sprayer or at least some wet sanding, both of which I like dislike.

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:26 pm**

I'm still learning "roll and tip". It really takes two people. I was alone.
The paint needs to be thinned "just right". Watch the visc. of the paint as you go. Add more thinning if needed.
I found flooding the garage floor with doors closed gets the humidity up were it needs to be. Work small areas (2X2 to 3X3) really fast . Which means, don't fiddle around.
After tipping don't go back over it. And after 4 coats you wet sand as described in literature. A really good HVLP sprayer with the hose going through a bucket of cold water is what's needed to spray paint. Either way you can do 4 coats in a day. If you don't sand between. That takes a long time between coats.
I read back over this. Almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about.

I don't

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:47 pm**

Question about Roll and Tip:

I applied S3 primer to my hull with a black foam roller, and I had a foam brush ready to pop or smooth any air bubbles or inconsistencies after rolling. I quickly discovered that the roller put the primer on very smoothly, with little or no bubbles. After a minute or so the primer got even smoother as it settled onto the surface.

My question is, what exactly do you mean by "tipping"? Is it just gently popping any bubbles after rolling, or are you actually brushing the paint smoother after rolling it on? How much pressure do you use while tipping?

It is hard for me to understand the advantage of a two person process because my experience with the primer required very little effort after rolling. Perhaps this will be different with paint.

al

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:43 pm**

I also rolled the primer. Since it's a high fill primer for sanding you may not need the tip. That's for finsh paint. Tipping is dragging the foam brush tip very lightly from dry back across just rolled toward the wet. If done on properly prepared surface it rivals spray application. You want it cool and humid if possible. This is from what my experiance was. All new to me

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:01 pm**

Very nice !

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:11 pm**

Hey Jas.......WAKE UP!!!

Boo, if the compliment was for my paint job, thank you.
Jas, I decided I have spent enough time laying out and cutting parts this week. The bottom paint has pretty well cured. So I thought paint the sides.
Layed out a masking line and noticed the sides had some imperfection. So I just spent the whole day sanding primer. That stuff gets hard. I vacuumed up the dust, wiped the tape area, and masked. Painting begins first thing in the morning...........I hope. I'm not gonna wear my glasses. That way I won't start picking at it. I can't feel anything. That will tell if there are buggers. So. Stay tuned. If it looks good I'll post picture.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:16 pm**

OK....
I have been fishing for the last week with a friend from up north so all I have done is wait for the topcoat to cure and prep for the flipping. I am making a 'sling' for the hull to set in that will hang from the garage rafters. I have the straps, hooks and pulleys so now all I have to to do is get them in place. The sling will hold the upsidedown hull where it is while I remove the strongback verticals and frames. After I get the cradle pieces in place, I'll roll the hull over inside the cradle straps and then use the pulleys to LOWER the righted hull into place...no lifting!!

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:55 pm**

Joda,

When I applied the S3 LPU I had to be very careful with the tape. The paint wanted to wick under the edge of the tape. Did you have any of this? What type of tape are you using?\n
Paul

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:04 pm**

I'm using 3M blue. There is also a green. This stuff can be left on much longer than the generic paper tape. Also costs more. You seal the edge down with the back of your fingernail or a plastic spoon. I had no leakage at all.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:36 am**

Paul, one thing I forgot to mention. The blue comes in "multi surface" and "delicate surface". The delicate has no krinkle to it and is the one you want. #2080.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:48 am**

Yoda,

Thanks for the info on your tape experience. I tried the blue tape with the krinkle (3M 2090) and got bleed through along the edges. Then I went to an auto paint store and got some blue vinal tape (3M 471), very expensive, and it worked great. I was hoping for something closer to the cost of the krinkle surface tape. I'll look for the 3M2080.

Paul

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:01 pm**

Lifting sling (or lowering sling in my case) in place..pics tomorrow. Next step is to tab in a couple of braces between the sides.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:27 pm**

Gonna be a big day Jas!

Posted: **Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:36 am**

delays..delays..and more delays

but the good news is that they have all been caused by my preparations to head off to Alaska tomorrow for a couple of weeks of salmon and halibut fishing

Hull is ready for flipping on my return....lifting slings are in place, some of the frames have been removed from the strongback...cradle design is underway and looks pretty straightforward....

Happy building to all...

Posted: **Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:51 pm**

Two weeks? WOW!

We're sailing up to Anchorage in 3 mos. Can't get enough of Alaska.
Have a great time.

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:16 am**

JASmine wrote:delays..delays..and more delays

but the good news is that they have all been caused by my preparations to head off to Alaska tomorrow for a couple of weeks of salmon and halibut fishing

Hull is ready for flipping on my return....lifting slings are in place, some of the frames have been removed from the strongback...cradle design is underway and looks pretty straightforward....

Happy building to all...

Bring me some Haibut back.We'll do a trade.Crab legs for some fish,Ea.Evild.?Or help with the flip.

Posted: **Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:37 am**

Just checked the postings to the galleries and saw your pics, Jas - awesome! You've done a beautiful job on that hull.

That was also a very clever arrangement with the slings to flip the hull - I wonder if that would work with the DE23 when I get around to it?

Posted: **Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:30 am**

We had a great trip to Alaska....halibut and king salmon..plus spent 3 days In BC on the spammer river..more king salmon!!! Brought home 50# of halibut and 50# of salmon for the freezer.
When I left the hull was sitting in the slings but not quite ready to flip. On my return I finished the 'finish' sanding, added two temporary cross supports, removed the last two frames by lifting the slings gently so they could be moved. Once I had the hull resting only on the slings I decided to see how easy it would be to move. To my pleasant surprise, it was soooo easy that once I had the hull lifted up on it's side I just continued to roll it over..took all of about 30 seconds

I set the hull down on a set of trailer bunks resting on half of the strongback frame. It's very easy to reach inside ..at least for the side seams.
Tomorrow I'll start on the inside

Posted: **Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:37 am**

Mike....I would bet the same sling arrangement would work with the DE23.
I bought two 20' x 2" tow straps with hooks on each end and connected one end to the rafter and the other to the cheap block and tackle (connected to the rafter). It was very easy.
Good Luck

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:55 am**

Grinded down all the lumpy material that seeped thru the seams from the outside...filleted and double taped the port inside side-bottom seam...hope to do the starboard seam tomorrow.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:16 pm**

Filleted and double taped the inside starboard side-bottom seam...

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:39 pm**

First I got tired of fairing and sanding. Now it's mixing cup after cup of resin and thickened epoxy. Too hot to make more that 3 oz even with ice.
Good thing I love building the boat

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:29 pm**

Yoda wrote:First I got tired of fairing and sanding. Now it's mixing cup after cup of resin and thickened epoxy. Too hot to make more that 3 oz even with ice.
Good thing I love building the boat

I wish I had your problem, Yoda! It's been too cold and wet here in Canberra for the past week to be able to mix any epoxy at all! This morning (Saturday), I am sitting inside looking out at my boat and the rain (the boat is under cover) and feeling very frustrated!

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:58 pm**

Yoda wrote:First I got tired of fairing and sanding. Now it's mixing cup after cup of resin and thickened epoxy. Too hot to make more that 3 oz even with ice.
Good thing I love building the boat

Start working in the mornings, getting up at 5:00 on a Saturday is good for the sole and you can mix larger batches.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:44 am**

I've been out there as early as 03:30. This morning 04:00.
Lucky I'm retired........

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:07 am**

Slept in this morning. Got up at 04:30.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:12 pm**

Took advantage of the 20 degree cooler weather caused by hurricane Dennis ....Finished filleting and double taping the inside keel seam as well as the inside transom seams...next up ..the inside cloth

.

Posted: **Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:24 am**

Jas, welcome back from Alaska. I wouldn't mind heading up there about now. It's a challenge working in this heat. I'm at the same point as you, the inside taped ready for the cloth (although I'm waiting untill last to paint the outside). Last week I was laying tape inside the boat on my knees and turned around to get the Epoxy mix to find that my foot was in it. That's one shoe that will never wear out!

Posted: **Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:50 pm**

Dynamo...dip the other shoe and you'll have a matching spit shine!!!

Boy was I hot today....probably sweated off 5#s...layed the starboard inside cloth..about 80 sq ft for just one half....a lot of mix/in the boat/out of the boat/mix/etc....but now it's done and hopefully on to the other half tomorrow...

Posted: **Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:14 pm**

JASmine wrote:Boy was I hot today....probably sweated off 5#s:D

Gee, Jas, stop rubbing it in! This morning I had to scrape the ice off my car windscreen to go to work........ definitely too cold for epoxying here in Canberra!

Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Panga 20 West Central Florida

Panga 20 West Central Florida

Jasmine's boat

I've returned!!

Jasmine

Pascoe method

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Jasmines Panga

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